May 6, 2025 • 50 mins
In this insightful episode, Britt is joined by two dedicated community leaders, Carla Sofronski & Jen Shinefeld, who are making a difference in the lives of individuals battling substance abuse in Philadelphia. Together, they share their personal stories and discuss the vital community service they provide to help those affected by addiction. Throughout the conversation, they delve into their backgrounds, detailing the paths that led them to this important work and the challenges they face on a daily basis. They also open up about how they maintain their mental health while providing support and care to some of the most vulnerable individuals in the city. This episode offers a powerful look at the resilience, dedication, and empathy required to support people on their journey to recovery, as well as the impact of community-driven efforts in the fight against substance abuse. Tune in for an inspiring and thought-provoking discussion on mental health, addiction, and the power of service.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Toye. This is Brick Carpenter and thanks for joining me today.
This season, I've been talking a lot about switching gears.
I talked about switching gears in personal lives, professional lives,
just in general, and switching gears is something we talk
about because it's necessary. It's a necessity in life for
people to evolve, for people to change, for people to grow.
And a lot of my guests this season have I've
(00:44):
been dealing with switching gears in their lives and a
lot of them have been switching gears in what they
do in their advocacy world. And today I have two
of my favorite people with me today that I sort
of had a trick into being here today. But that's
cool because they're both here and I'm excited about it.
Today I have Carla Safransky and I have gen Steinfeld. Hi, ladies, Hi,
(01:05):
come on, be excited.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Because your hair looks great.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
It does, doesn't it? Thank you? So is yours? So
as yours, Carla, not.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
As graces yours.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I know, I know. So this isn't about me, ladies,
This is not about me. Even though you had no
idea what you're walking into. Well, Carlo, you sort of
did I told you to my podcast, You know I did, Jen,
I just had to tell you to show up, because Jen,
that's just the way life goes, you know, And and
she did, well, you know what it is, because I
think it's not in an ask for I told her
(01:33):
it was one of those like you have to be there,
and she she was, and it was good. And it's
good because like the energy I can get for the
two of you, especially about this season of switching gears
and and our lives and things like that, can can
really go. And I know who you are and what
you do. And but you know, tell they everybody listening, Carla,
who are you? What do you do?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And oh geez, who am I? What do I do?
I feel like I asked myself that every morning. I
don't really know what I do anymore? So who am I?
I guess? In my workspace, I am an executive director
for the Pennsylvania Harm Reduction Network, which is a statewide
grassroots advocacy organization that fights against terrible policy coming here
(02:18):
in Pennsylvania around drugs and promotes and supports evidence based
policy that can actually keep people alive. And then what
else am I? Additionally? You know I'm a mother, you know,
I'm a friend, I have family members. You know, I
play many different roles. I have three pets right now
that I need to figure out how to get fed
(02:39):
that I forgot about, you know, like there's lots of
different roles that we all play in life.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Absolutely, how long you been doing your advocacy work.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I've been doing this work for I don't know, over
ten years, and in different in different spaces, right, So
like in the mental health space, that worked a lot
on party law, disability rights, housing, and then substance use,
and then came more so closely around harm reduction efforts
probably about six seven years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Policy fun, right, Yeah, a lot of fun. People say policy,
and I back away just because you know, I understand
it and I can advocate for it. But I do
better on the streets. I do better, you know, the
hands on. But the policy is necessary. It's tedious, yes,
but it's necessary for people to be schooled, for people
(03:32):
to be educated on the awareness. And you know that's
that's I don't know, I get scared with policy.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I mean, the truth is that I've done direct service
work and the outreach work and the street work for
many years and I think that if you don't want
to burn out in this space, you got to switch
it up. You know. I commend anybody that does direct
service work because I know how hard that is, especially
(04:01):
for the people that are like I've been doing this
for ten twenty thirty years, like God bless you, because
I could not and I would burn out and I
wouldn't be able to serve anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And I get it. And it's funny you say, you know,
switching up, because we need to. We need to do
that for ourselves. We need you to keep our sanity. Yeah,
you know. I mean I think people, you know, people
will really they'll stroke our egos. And it's great, you know,
the work that we do, but I think people don't
really realize what happens when we get behind those doors
at home sometimes. So, you know, but Jen, thank you
(04:30):
so much for being here. You know, sorry that I
you know, had to sort of not give you the
full story. But you're here. You look great. I love
your hat, crumbums, that's perfect. I get it. But I
know you, Jen, and you know there's other people out
there who know you. But who is Jen Scheinfeld?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I just wanted to know what three pets you have
at home.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
She did get excited when you said that. Her face
lit up.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So I have Butchery and Penny, which are two French
bulldogs who require lots of attention, of course, And and
by the way, I protested all three of these animals.
I did not want them, and they were, as you know,
my late fiance's pets. And then I have Max the cat.
Max Cat's cool, although he did go missing for a
few hours just today, which pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Then he came back. But yeah, is he indoor outdoor? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Which is like no good, you know, like you need
to pick one, like you can't be both.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
No.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, it's like the work that we do, like you
can't be direct service and policy.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Question yeah yeah, yeah, which he's really good at. I
love it. But jen Steinfeld, you are an advocate and
we know this. Send people know that, but really, you know,
you are the executive director of the Everywhere Project.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I am the executive director of the EVERWEP Project, which
is a grassroots arm reduction organization in the city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And what do you do?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Stuff and things?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Stuff and things, you know, And it's funny when you
say that. For you, that's what it is right. It's
stuff and things. We just do this stuff. We do
these things and it's almost second nature the stuff and
things that you do. But you know, to other people
it's like, wow, I can never do that. You know,
break it down a little bit, Jen tell us the
Everywhere Project, what was the inception of it? Why and
(06:20):
what exactly was that whole goal in doing stuff and things.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
The Everwhere Project is completely volunteer, lead and run, and
quite frankly, I think none of us two are on
the team envisioned it ever becoming what it is today.
We started out with one folding table. Actually we didn't
(06:48):
start out with any tables. We started out with our
cars and wagons or book bags and a bunch of misfits.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Met up and realized that we all.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Had common values and linked and suddenly we grew into
this large community and it's beautiful and we provide services
to over a thousand people a week with harm reduction supplies,
hot meals, pantry items, clothing, wound care referrals to services.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Right now, we're working with people.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Who are getting out of medical care to make sure
that they have what they need before they go into
sober living. People who are doing re entry things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
That's stuff and things us, you know, and that's a daily,
that's a daily and we just sort of do this,
you know, without thinking. It's almost robotic sometimes, you know,
getting up, you know your calendar, you know what you
got to do, you know what your focus is, and
you know. But you know, when we peel layers back,
you know, the work that we do is not common work.
(07:58):
And you know, to to people, it's like whoa you know,
and there's always that why, you know, and I'm gonna
ask it, you know, Like for me, you know, the
why why was because of my lived experience, you know,
five overdoses. I I you know, wrote the book on
overdosing and heroin I feel sometimes in my world. And
you know, the why was because you know, if not,
(08:20):
I'd be dead and I needed to stay alive. And
giving service back, especially to a community I took so
much from, was very important to me. But you know,
not many people just do this work, especially since it's
all volunteer the nonprofit sector. You are not making it rich,
that is for sure, unless you're leading one of the
top organizations out there. So the why, Carla, what is
(08:42):
the why? Oh God?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I mean, there's so many whys, right, and a lot
of it's just like how could you not like once
you start learning what's really going on out there, like
how do you how do you go to sleep at night?
Like just the that that's okay? And what I mean
by that is like you know, of course my same
(09:04):
wise is just probably a lot like yours and gens
like our own substance use. You know, I stopped using
heroin at twenty six. The heroin I used looks nothing
like the fentanyl that is out there today. That's like
destroying people's bodies. You know, I did minimal damage to
my body compared to others today. And uh, you know,
my sister died in the streets out here, My fiance
(09:25):
just passed away four years ago. It feels like yesterday,
hundreds of friends.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I mean, the.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Reality of it is is our generation is like half.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Wiped out, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You know. And I think when you look at the policies,
and for me, like in the advocacy base in particular,
like when you look at the policies that are in place,
it's like, of course our generations wiped out, like these
are our laws, Like of course people are dying all
over place they can't get access, you know. And and
(09:56):
that's really what my why is right now in that moment.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And I'm glad you say what you said because when
people ask me that, like, you know, well, what's your why?
You know, it wasn't just that one thing. It wasn't
just that aha moment. It was a series of them.
It was waking up next to the toilet in the roundhouse,
you know, with my shirt as a pillow. You know,
when I got arrested. It was you know, getting revived
in my car while my car was against the wall.
(10:23):
And like, there's a series of whys. Yeah, there's a
whole bunch of them that go along with it. And
people forget that, like people have lies prior to that,
you know, like and people that look like us don't
normally get associated with, you know, substance use disorder or
using hairin especially because there's such you know, a misconception
about it, you know, especially this whole war on drugs
(10:43):
misconception you know about it, and you know, and people
forget that. You know, everybody has lost through this war
on drugs, and everybody is losing and we continue to
do so. And you know, our generation is getting wiped.
It's crazy. And you know, it's funny because I think,
I'll a lot of us that do what we do
is because we do it because we want to try
to control what we can control, and when we realize
(11:06):
it's not really controlling, it's really just being there and
connecting sometimes.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
You know, one thing I'll say is that a lot
of people don't know my lived experience, right, Like I
only use that card here and there, and and I
get asked often like well, what's your why? And I'm like,
because the ship is unjust what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Can I curse?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
We let it curse?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Good?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Okay, got, You're good? Like I'm like, I'm like, this
shit is Unjust what do you mean? Like I don't understand,
Like how the hell do you sit here? And just yes,
I'm like, you know, like I don't understand. I live
with yourself and and like, you know, I went through
a whole experience before in the past, and the nonprofit
sector of like like people of them would say like, oh,
(11:50):
your lived experience, Like I don't know it is taking
you to the top, which is such bullshit, right because
that means that's not valued. But you know, I think
that is go on. It's like no, like right, so
people have lived experience, right. We look all different, right,
and like we have all different skills and we can
do all different things. We can hold podcasts, and we
(12:13):
can run you know, legislation through the Pennsylvania legislature, and
we can also wear clothing designers, we're artists. Like, we're
all different things, and they love to box us. Right.
So for a long time I stopped, you know, sitting
up here and be like, I'm a person in long
term recovering. My recovery looks different than like, no, like
(12:34):
I don't even do that anymore, Like you know, I'm
just like like, how do you not well?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And it is a question of how do you not?
And I think for the three of us, you know,
that's no brainer. You know, we wake up and that's
what we do. You know, we live. If somebody calls
us about something, it's like, oh, let me talk to
you for an hour about that. You know, we can
educate you and make an awareness. And I also think
for other people that you know, sometimes it's you know,
it's not because of that fact of they don't look
(12:59):
at There is a why to it too, you know,
And I often say to myself, I wonder, you know
where I would be if I didn't have substance use disorder,
and what I think? How could I not? Because I
know where I come from. There is a lot of
the closed minded people that were like, ooh, you shot aroin, Yeah,
(13:20):
what's wrong with you? You know? You know, and I
look at that, So I don't know, you know, and
I'm glad you said that, you know, because I think
people don't realize that because there's a lot of people
who will walk by I mean, think about it. You know,
we walk, we walk the streets, we see what's going
on out there, we do harm reduction. People walk by
people on corners all the time and never pay attention.
(13:42):
They never even glance at them and give them a smile.
How could you not?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I mean, listen, they're living a much simpler life, let's
be real, right, Like their lives are much more simple
earth in our lives. So, you know, I don't know,
but I would never go back to being or being
a simpleton.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That's you know. Once you know you know, well, that's
why the power in your voice and what you do
is so important, so people can know. How could you not?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You know?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And and Jen, how about you? I mean your background.
First of all, your background in school is very interesting
to me. You know, yeah, what's your degree there? Jen?
Tell me your degree?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So my background is I have my undergraduate and public
health and my master's degree in epidemiology and biostatistics.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Okay, I was an English major.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I have zero degrees. By the way, I have a genda.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
That's a right. Hey, that's better than nothing, right. I mean,
who you know we have we have degrees in the streets.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Do you know what degrees?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Don't mean exactly? But I want to know what the
hell and epedeimologists or PD say it again, epidemiologists whatever,
Tell me what that does and why what was that
specific thing in that box you check to say?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I want to do this because in order to drive change,
you need numbers, right, So I knew that the numbers
would direct the funding. And if I had access to
the numbers and could make those numbers make sense to
the people who had the money, I could direct change.
(15:15):
So that's why I got that degree.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I've known her for so long and we are first
time I ever heard that, and I love it. I
love that. So you went and got your masters in
that so you can drive change. Yeah, and you have,
You've been able to utilize that.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, that was my whole goal going into it, and
I started my whole career in the world of HIV.
I did HIV research for ten years, working with vulnerable
populations across the city of Philadelphia, and then moved to
work primarily with people who use substances.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And yeah, it's crazy. Ten years and a HIV work.
That's a lot, you know, and switching gears to go
into substance utes, but not really as switching gears because
that goes hand in hand. People really forget that. I
think people forget too that. You know, when Prevention Point
Philly was first written as that known as the Needle
(16:18):
Exchange back then, but as the syringe Exchange, it was
written for HIV, you know, populations, Nobody remembers that. People
only think of it as being for people who are
doing drugs, you know, and they forget that. There's such
correlations between everything we've talked about, between you know, the
substance utes, the mental health, the physical issues, you know, physiological,
(16:43):
so much to do and you know, but you know,
so driving change, driving change is so important, you know,
and I want to make it clear that when you
started the Everywhere project, you didn't start it in Kensington.
You were driving change in the city. You went everywhere,
you went into the subway as you went around. You
even had a team member who got punched in the face.
(17:03):
But we won't get into that. We'll talk about that
another time.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That's a story for another day.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
That's a great story.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But yeah, we're out until We would be out until three, four, five,
six in the morning on Saturdays doing distribution across the
city of Philadelphia, making sure that everyone everywhere had access
to food, clothing, harm reduction supplies.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
When you say harm reduction supplies, and you know, I
have two what I consider leaders. When I first got
into Philly, Unknown and harm Reduction, and I was connecting
with the harm reduction community, I believe it or not,
like the two of you. The names I heard and
I was like, oh my gosh, I want to meet them.
You know, I love the work that they're doing. I mean,
you did some you do great work, you know, and
(17:46):
you know, and to me, that's what I wanted to
surround myself by people doing great work and doing good
things and learning from them and you know, integrating and
connecting in that aspect. And but you know when you
say harm reduction, you know what does that mean and
what is it when in your world that you hand
out and that you do.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Harm reduction is actually all encompassing. So even when I
say food and clothing, that's harm reduction. Food is arm reduction.
Nutritionous harm reduction. Woond care is harm reduction, clothing, fresh
socks is harm reduction. People walking for five miles a day,
they need fresh socks.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
A lot of us are very privileged to come home
and be able to take our socks off at the
end of the day and wash our feet. How great
does that feel? But in simpler terms, when we say
harm reduction, a lot of people just attribute that to
safer you supplies, So we give those out, So we
do safer use supplies works, safer smoking kits, safer snorting kits,
(18:47):
and the locks own testing strips and things like that,
and everything comes with education. Right. My biggest pet peeve
is that we assume that people who use substances know
how to use the materials. That's not true. You can't
just throw a test trip at someone, say use drugs,
(19:07):
so you know how to use this?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Oh, it's like a litmus test a what exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So whenever we offer something, we also offer education along
with it to make sure that people know how to
utilize it properly. Because if you don't know how to
use the tool you're given, it's useless.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Oh wait, I mean, so you're giving people things and
you're educating them on that. What a brilliant concept, you know,
which leads me to Carla. I mean, you've been the
executive director of the Pennsylvania Harm Reduction Network for how long?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Jeez? I think three years?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Four years?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Three maybe?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And what is the pr Harm Reduction Network? What is
it responsible for? What does it do? I mean, I
know you're talking about legislation and driving policy.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, so, like the real goal is the shift culture
around Pennsylvania. Right, So, like in Philadelphia, we're kind of
like in this bubble zone. And I was in that
bubble zone for a very long time, right where like
and can run around the streets to Philadelphia and for
the most part give out the supplies without being harassed
or arrested for them in most areas, I would say, right, right, So,
(20:11):
prior to the new administration, prior to the new administration,
different show that is correct, but the rest of the
state looks very differently.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And oh wait, so this isn't just centralized to Kensington
and Philly. So this this whole epidemic, which is not
an epidemic, it's a public health crisis. This is statewide.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So the public health crisis is state wide, believe it
or not.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Wise, it's not just pennsylvaniaationwise. So we got to get
out of our bubbles.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Huh So, yeah, the bubble, it threw me through a
loop coming out of the bubble, I'm not gonna lie.
You know, when I traveled the state and I was
talking to all of these different people who were like
trying to do the same things that you do, but
were being harassed by cops. Not only that their families
were being harassed. You know, the stories I would hear.
(21:07):
They'd be like, I'd walk up the mountain to give
John in a lockstow and I'm like, wait a minute, what,
like is this real life? And zero support? Zero support,
you know, no funding and really like no resource and
no like network of people coming together. And so that's
(21:27):
kind of how the organization was born because of all
these different groups of people who had no idea even
honestly that they I was like, yeah, that's harm reduction.
They're like, yeah, man, I just want people to be alive.
I'm like, yeah, man, so do I Like, that's what
we're all doing out here, and so shifting culture with
a lot of time. What that looks like is like
(21:48):
getting into communities and having conversations. Some of them are
difficult conversations, right, and some of them go really well,
and it's unexpectedly well, you know, and just like saying, like,
if we supply people with stero syringes, we might see
a drop in HIV new infections around the state, especially
(22:09):
in Central Pennsylvania. It's possible we could see a drop
in HCVA. You know, the CDC has targeted in Central Pennsylvania.
These are all localized hotspots and they're going to numbers
are growing to continue to climb. And that's where law
enforcement's like, oh really, yeah, really great, Okay, let's get
on board. And sometimes conversations are that simple, right, like
(22:31):
educating people. Other times not so much.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And it's really as simple as you said, sitting down
and just doing this, having a conversation. So that was
my ultimate goal was to have this type of conversation
that people can hear, that people can understand, that people
can know that, you know, we got to get out
of our bubbles, especially in a city like Philadelphia. In Philly,
you can live on one block and have zero clue
(22:55):
what's going on a block or two blocks away. It's
a different world to you. It's just you know, people
go in, they shut their door, they don't leave. There's
no type of community sensed in some of those aspects.
So you get to those those counties that are in
the rural part of Pennsylvania, which is every part of
Pennsylvania other than really.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
It's which I also did not know by the way.
You know, I did not know this, but we.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Always say Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and pennsyl.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
TUCKI like, until you're in it, you will, like for me,
like until I'm one of those people like I gotta go.
I need to see. And I saw and I was like,
oh wow.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
They don't call driving across frute eighty God's Country for nothing,
because you are out there in the sky. It's very interesting,
but it's also it's also a little scary to a
point because of the fact that, like you just said it,
you know, a guy. I take some locks on up
the mountain to Johnny and it's like, what, how does
(23:49):
that make sense? You know, we are maybe we're a
little more privileged because we have greater access to it,
we're greater resources or people talking to us more so.
So what you're doing is amazing because it's necessary.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
What they're doing is amazing and because it's so necessary, right,
and like I'm just trying to take the information that's
out there produced by people like y'all and like just
carry it. Like that's really like what's happening is I'm
like a messenger of education and hopes to shift culture.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
That's awesome. Do you ever feel like sometimes we're just
spinning your.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Wheels every day?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
You made your face right away, because I know you
do too, and we all do that. So what do
you do when you feel like you're doing that to
stop spinning the wheels, to move on or to get
out of that? Because what we can do could be
very thankless.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Usually the chicken dance for a.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Little while doing you really, can you video that next
time you do that? For me?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, I've realized that any song you can chicken dance too,
and it's just fine.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So if I play some music, now you do that
for us?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
No, sh no, you already tricked me into being here,
so you're not getting that.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Try next time we'll do that. We'll just But you know,
what do we what what do you do to get
out of that, to get to that next level to
remain positive, because, as I said, it's thankless. A lot
of what we do is is not you know, roses
(25:26):
and sunshine at the end of the day. Every day,
I mean, we walk away from some really shitty circumstances
and traumatic incidents that we do have to take home
with us. We just can't shut that door and say, Okay,
I'm putting the switch and it's off now, you know,
and now I'm home and that rolls on. So what
do you do besides maybe drink heavily? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I don't do that anymore, thankfully. I think the universe
is happy about that too, because really the earth is
not scorched, right.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So I have.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I keep an album on my phone called worth It
for Things that make the work worth it for me, people,
places and things. So when I feel beaten down, I
go back and.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Look at it. And when it feels like it's.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Overwhelming, defeating, or fruitless. I will go back through that,
and that's a reminder for me.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I love that because they teach you. You know, of course,
you know, and you know in recovery that people, places,
and things are bad. You know, are supposed to be
bad for you. You know, because you know that reminds you
and triggers you of whatever the circumstance was. But to
be able to use people, places, and things on a
positive to remind yourself of that why or the tons
of whys that come with it, you know, that's really cool.
(26:52):
I never really heard anybody put it that way, because
every time I hear people placing things, it always comes
with the negative connotation. So that's awesome to hear that.
How about you besides your two frenchies.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
No, that is not a positive. That is not if
you hear Butchie screaming like a dying whale every day,
that's not a positive. They everyone runs me. The kid
runs me, the dogs run me, the cat runs me,
everybody runs me.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I sounds terrible. I hate cardio.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
It's like some days I wake up and I'm like,
how the fuck did I get wrapped up in this life?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Like?
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Who am I? And I don't know, so like, I
celebrate the small wins, right, so like, and sometimes they're
really small, but that's a fucking win, you know, And
I think that it's so important, and you know, to
celebrate the small ones, like you have to celebrate the
small ones. And as for everything else, you know, I'm
(27:50):
pretty good at shutting down and shutting out everybody for
a little bit. And I have a So the great
thing is about my house is that I have this
basement where the dogs cannot go because they're scared to
go down the steps because they're steep. The cat does
harass me downstairs, and that does happen, and he's like, oh,
(28:10):
this is my time now, and he's like and he
like talks NonStop too, and I'm like, I'm gonna lock
you upstairs. So me and facts argue. But the kid
don't come downstairs either because she thinks that I'm going
to ask her to do something like how we laundry
up So we play this game so she doesn't calm down.
And then even if she does try to come down,
like oh, Gray, can you take upstairs, she's like, this
(28:31):
is why I don't come down here. So I keep
that just like that and the Carla Cave. So in
the Carla Cave is like, I don't know, pick a
new hobby that I think that I'm going to start
like monthly, right, So it's like I learned how to
I did like beginner woodworking, right, I know, right, like
who am I? And then then Instagram got me into
(28:55):
like resin pours, and then I don't know. Sometimes that
it's like you know, with music and a bottle of vodka,
and sometimes that's just you know, me with everything shut
down and keeping the cat upstairs and when I'm in it,
like I'm silent, you know, like sometimes I just need
my mind to quiet.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Down, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And I don't think that people realize that we talk
like I say this all the time. I'm like, we
talk like we talk from the minute we wake up
till we go to sleep, Like we talk a lot.
And some for me, who is an introvert extrovert, you
guys clearly see the extroverts side of me, Like I
(29:39):
could be very introverted too, and and like sometimes I
just need like everyone and everything to shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah,
so that's my care if everyone and everything can just
shut the fuck.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Up and that's really hard sometimes because you know, you
are in charge of an organized that's very important. You
have people that you know answer to you, that you
have the answer to. And you know the same with
Jen with the Everywhere project. You know, all the people
that you serve, everything that you do, all the people
that are involved, all those you know, and with Philly
(30:14):
Unknown and all those little cogs that we have going on,
it's really hard for us to just sit down, turn
it all out and tell everybody just shut the fuck up,
you know, because sometimes that's all you want to do. Yeah,
that's why I do not disturb works really great, but
it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
People just keep doing I know, I hit today, I
hit notify anyway. I was like, yeah, I'm doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I'm okay with that. It's still on silent then, so
it's all right.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I was wondering. I'm like, why does he always have
his notifications? So I'm like, what a nice life he
must have got, right, I'll.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Give you The other morning, I went for a meeting
with an organization and their harm reduction team and I
sat there and I was there no lie. Twenty five
minutes picked up my phone and there was fifteen text
messages in twenty five minutes. I don't even like fifteen
people sometimes and talk to them. You know, no offense
to everybody who that was. I'm not saying what day
(31:06):
it was, but you know, it's like, really why. And
that's not just with Philly unknown. That's also because I
have my business and it's also just life. And I
also get a lot of people because of what I do,
reach out and they want to they need some information.
A lot of parents. I deal with a lot of
parents because I don't know, maybe because as I'm old
(31:27):
and that's their age, and you know, they don't understand
their kids. And it's a way to do that. I
don't know, but it's hard to shut down. Jen. How
about you? And real quick, I want to real quick
throw it in there. I want people to hear that
Carla said that you know about at vodka, It is
very possible to be in recovery and still do things
(31:47):
that don't make you want to be dead.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Oh yeah, should elaborate on that a little bit more so,
I need to.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
You don't need to, because recovery is your way. But
there's people when they hear that long term recovery, they
associate the word recovery with some right, and I want
people to get away from that because that's a stigma.
To me, that's a stigma. Sobriety is a stigma because
now you're telling somebody that if you are on M,
A T or you whatever, you're not as valued. Correct
fu you? Yes, I work my ass off, just stay
(32:16):
alive recovery.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
So I say I'm a moderated recovery.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Interesting, maybe that Okay, just don't say California recovery please,
I hate that.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
What's that? That's like when you smoke?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Why, I don't know that's recovery. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I just say I'm a moderator recovery because I don't
have a chaotic relationship.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
With a lot of words, right, like include all these
words now, and it's just like my recovery is my recovery.
I do say my recovery might look different than yours
to try to give people like an idea, but you
should say that, right, right of course. But yeah, it's
like I'm so tired of like defining ship.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right about riding anymore. It's about people staying alive.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
What's your wellness?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Like?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, because I know those people that are out
there that are their whole life is nothing but rah recovery.
I know they're not happy. Yeah so, but but Jenny
and your moderated recovery like that, what do you do
for that peace of mind? To shut down and shut
it off? Because you, my friend, I know you have
that trouble.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Do not disturb. It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
And there's a setting where you can turn off the
double call feature. You can, you can turn that shit
right off, and you can turn off all the little
red notifications as well.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
So I set up.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Why don't have the red notifications turned off? I don't
want people to know that shit, So.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
I have everything shut off.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
So if I put do not disturb on, it's I'm
a ghost for the day.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I love it. So what do you do for fun?
Then I will because you, my friend, work seven days
a week.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
I'm aware.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I try not to.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I tried to take Sundays.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I had it for a while, I lost it. I will,
I will capture it back. I'll read sometimes I take
up knitting, usually in the winter.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
What have you knitted so far?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Uh? A third of a scarf?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You can finish that? Maybe?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Maybeeah?
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Maybe like twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Little by little, like Carlos said, celebrate the little victories.
Little by little becomes a lot of people. I try
to remind people of that that no matter how little
we do, each time we add more little to that,
it becomes a lot, and all the may become very
big victories and one big victory overall. And you know,
and people don't see that. People don't see our little victories,
(34:49):
do they, because we don't really broadcast and there's so
many of them. I think sometimes just by putting a
smile on people's face each day is a victory, especially
your own, that's a victory. It's hard to smile sometimes.
I feel in my world, you know, I fake it.
You know you try, but you know there's you know,
(35:11):
do you do you ever find yourself like wanting to
just say totally fuck it, I'm done, I'm out. I
want to do something different. There's a different box I
want to check and try, both of you, either of
you yeah, yeah, every day? Yeah, what would what would
you do? What would you what would be ideal? What
would be that dream thing that you could do? Oh?
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I have no idea. That's why when you asked the
first question, well, like what do you do? I'm like,
I don't even know what I do though I don't know.
It's like, what do you want to be when you
when you grow up? I still don't know what I
want to be when I grow up.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Are you good with what working when you did it?
Speaker 3 (35:42):
No? No? The reason And I didn't like just say
I didn't pick up a book and say like I'm
going to find a hobby today. What had happened was
when Ted and I bought this house the guy it
was an old print shop, and the guy left his
woodworking tools, like these are like old dusty like tools, right,
(36:05):
And so when Ted died, the only place I could
go to to be alone, because I had like thirty
different people in my house every given day was the basement.
Oh and I smoked SIGs in the basement. So that's
another thing. So that's like the real reason whey I'm
down there now, get yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You get to smoke cigarettes out.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
So so I would go smoke SIGs in the basement,
and like as I would paste the basement, thinking like shit,
like this is my life, Like what's the deal? What
am I gonna do? What I want to be when
I grow up? All those things I found there's woodworking tools.
And then you know, you spend as much time in
the basement you hang out like anywhere with a bunch
of stuff around you, you're gonna eventually pick it up.
(36:44):
And that's what happened. Yeah, So I started picking up
the tools and started playing with them. Then YouTube came
into play, and the next thing you know, I'm like
building a shop.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I don't know. That's cool though, that's really cool.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
A thing or two.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, how about you doing anything I think of for
what that you would do? Like that? You could dream
of a bookshop? Really? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Just fuck it. I'm opening up a bookshop.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's awesome. As an English major, I love that. That's
that's sick. That's perfect. So you get lost in reading?
Do you like books or are you a kindle person?
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Books?
Speaker 1 (37:19):
My mother gave me two kindles? Why I don't understand
those like I have? First of all, I hate the phone.
Why want I want to read a kindle? So like
I love the books. I like to feel the paper
and just having that in my hand. So do you
read often? Is it a frequent thing?
Speaker 4 (37:36):
It should be more frequent than it is. But yes,
I try.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
To anything in particular, not historical fiction.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
But other than that, almost anything you.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Know you mentioned, may I ask you mentioned about you
mentioned Teddy and you mentioned, you know, when he passed
a few years Would you mind sharing at all about that?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah, I meant he was a person that I mean, honestly,
he's the person who really brought me into the harm
reduction space, right, Like he's you know, we were together
for eleven years, and there was good years and there
was bad years, right, and just like any other relationship
that's out there, and for fifty percent of the time,
(38:23):
like he really struggled. And at the time, I was
in absence based twelve Step Fellowship Recovery and and yeah,
and like I watched how the fellowship treated him, and
you know, he was getting high and I'd be like, well,
did you pray today, han, And he's like you don't
get the fuck away from me, you know what. And
I'm like, what, that's not helping, He's dope, say lighting there,
(38:45):
I'm like, well did you pry? Like it's like I'll
kill you.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Out, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
And And the truth is is like he was a
person who got wrapped up in the criminal justice system
at the age of thirteen years old. And he never
left the criminal justice system and died at the age
of forty five. And so, you know, and he was
a great person and he was He's a victim to
the system one hundred percent. You know, juvenile justice system
(39:14):
did him wrong. He was incarcerated at seventeen for thirteen
years and did thirteen year bid. They did him wrong,
you know. And of course he had a substance Like
why wouldn't you have a substance use disorder getting out?
And he tried his best, and I can wholeheartedly say
that he tried his best with everything that he was
(39:36):
dealt and and you know, he went to go use
and this is right at the spike ephentanol, and you know,
the drugs that he was using in the past wasn't
the same. And you know, he died alone in a
work in a house that he was working in and
he died alone. And I knew almost immediately that he
(39:58):
was like dead. And and the way that like it
had impacted our lives, you know, is has been tremendous.
And I think that that's one thing that people don't
really think about, is the butterfly effect that happens in families,
right is like you know what happens to our children,
you know, the trauma that they're going to take on
(40:20):
from the death.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I always say, like, you know, like our parents, I
think we're all around kind of the same age. Like
our parents were like fucked right, Like they never dealt
with their trauma. They like that shit, like like they
don't talk about that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Like they still don't, right, And we're not supposed.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
To exactly right, So like we took on their trauma, right,
and like so we have like but we're a little
bit aware, we're a little bit woke, right, Maybe some
of us want the therapy, maybe somebody didn't. So we
have like half of it. And then we have our
children or my child who like, you know, she thinks
she's woke as fuck, right, and she's like she's you know,
and she you know, she knows everything. She's like out
(40:59):
there like this. You know, she's gonna be fifteen, and
she's been in you know, she's been in received all
different types of mental health treatment, very differently than what
that looked like for me as a child being institutionalized
many times. And I'm gonna say I always say this,
I'm like Rihanna, I'm like your children are gonna be
good to go, Like they're gonna be good because the
(41:20):
next her generation and the way that their parent I
can only hope through all of this crisis, right, And
like even thinking about Teddy's death is that it will
carry on to a larger message of like hope and
survival that will be like worked out. I mean, that's
(41:40):
the hope. We can't be doing the shit for nothing.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Right, absolutely, And I like that you said that greater message.
I don't think about that sometimes. I don't really think
about that ever, because I just sort of think about
today and think about like, you know, it's interesting people say,
you know, the work that you do is so awesome,
it's so great you're doing in this work, and I
don't look at it like that. I never once I'm like,
(42:03):
oh yeah, you know, you know, I don't like I
tell people what I'm doing because it's awareness and it's
showing people that there's compassion and humanity and it's and
it exists out there. But you you said it that
there is that that trickle down effect or is that
butterfly effect? Everybody is somebody someone, they belong to, somebody somewhere,
and that affects not just the person, it affects their
(42:27):
entire being and those around them, you know, And you know, Jen,
that's something that you know, you deal with on a
daily you know, in life with the people that you
deal with and with the people that are friends of
ours and the people that ourselves. You know, we deal
with that and it's really hard to be able to
deal with the shit that we're dealt with and still
(42:48):
be able to sit here and talk about it, smile
and go about our day.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I came to the realization earlier this year that I'm
not going to be alive for the world that I
want to live, but I am going to be able
to help pave the road for the future world that
I would love to live in.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
So that keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
What fueled that though? From the start? Where did that
fuel come from in the start? To just ignite that
passion to do this, to do this work. Yeah, to
do this abbocacy work, because like Kreva said, why not?
But not everybody has that? Why not?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
I believe in people, That's what it comes down to.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
I think all.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
People deserve to be treated with dignity, empathy, and compassion
and respect, and that is how I treat everybody. How
you said people will walk by someone and not acknowledge them.
That's not within my spirit to be able to do that,
but it My why has always just been that people
(44:04):
need people and everyone deserves to be treated compassionately.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
You said dignity, respect, compassion, empathy. Four things that you
can't teach people. Interesting. Four things that you really can't
teach people. You can show them and we do that daily,
but you can't teach somebody that. So that's something that's inherent,
(44:31):
that's something that you're born with. That's something that speaks
volumes to somebody's character. So those things right there, when
you said that, that really hit home with me because
that's exactly what people need. And it's not just people
on the streets. That's not misconstrue. This is everybody. This
has affected everybody. This is a domino effect. This public
health crisis isn't just destroying the people on the streets.
(44:56):
It's destroying our communities. It's destroying residents's neighborhod hoods. You know.
So anything we do, anything that we get through, whether
it's passing policy legislation, handing out in narcan, handing out
safe use products, handing out clothing, all that harm reduction
is salvaging these most vulnerable neighborhoods and people have to
(45:17):
realize that. So that's so important too. So thank you
both for, like you know, showing people that you know,
we need to lead by example and if we can't,
you know, they weren't born with all that inside of them.
Maybe you hope that a little bit of a rub
off somewhere and people takes in. And it did because
you both have a movement going on for you guys
(45:39):
to be serving thousands of people a week and to
have not just like one table set up anymore like
we had fifty people the first night of Love Park,
but to have tents and stations and a massive operation
every week, and for you to not just be like
handing narcan out and say here it's a lip misticks.
Stick it in the water and see if it work.
You know what color it turns. You know, it's not
(46:00):
testing a pool chemical. You're educating people. You're letting people
know what that's for, and you're driving that on an
end that only certain people can do. To have a voice.
It's not just here, it's pa, it's harm reduction and
that spreads the nationwide. So like I, you know, I
think people like us we forget just really how great
(46:22):
we are. I think you guys are amazing. You know
the ship that you put up with. You know where
you're at now, it's great. And you knows is.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Like luring us into buildings upstairwells and just turn right
at the door.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I knew exactly the minute, the minute she looked at
you and she like pierced her. I knew exactly where
she was.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Going with it, Like where am I going?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
And I'm like this, it's very it's very you know,
you have to do what you gotta do, what you
gotta do, right. We do what we got to do
every day. And I also do it because of the
fact that like knowing the two of you and and
and the respect that I have for the two of you.
Als will know that sometimes it's nice to take a break.
Sometimes it's also nice to sort of just sit down
(47:10):
and not do anything, and not look at that phone,
and peel some layers back and and just talk. You know,
because we are people. We are We're not robotics. You know,
It's it's pretty simple. We forget about ourselves sometimes all
that compassion, empathy, you know, awareness we bring to everybody
else there for ourselves. So to be able to do that,
(47:30):
and like, switching gears is so important for me right
now because if not, probably the three of us probably
wouldn't be here if we didn't switch gears in our lives,
you know, and be able to switch what we do
and and and make a difference. And we have to
because what we do forget everything you learn one day,
because tomorrow it's different. So you know, I love that
about it.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
But Jen, you know you have a dog Gonzo my guns.
Didn't you know? We talked about Carl's.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
That's our move, that's move.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
There is Gonzo is a dog of harm reduction. Yeah,
he definitely is. He comes out and he he chills
and you know it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
He is so like you can take on places. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
He dresses up as Santa Paus on Christmas and goes
out and gives out sucks and other goodies with Santa
Claus around Kensington.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
In the past few Halloweens, I've spent with them handing
candy out and he's outside with his costly mind. Whether
it was a hot dog or a taco or whatever
he was wearing.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
That's so nice. I could never take my dogs anywhere.
They don't know how to act. They don't not act.
I say that all the time. I'm like, this is
why we can of nice things.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
You don't not act. Tell you run you Carlo. So,
PA harm Reduction. If they want to find you on
the internet, on the website, where is what's your website?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah, so website is p h r N dot org.
Our handle is at PA harm.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Reduction and that's on your social media handles. PA harm Reduction.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Don't ask me this question. Google Everywhere project.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
It's like the Underscore Underscore Everywhere Underscore Underscore project, but
the Everywhere project you can find in genets. The Everywhere
project dot org is where you're at. You know, both
organizations doing amazing things, both individuals doing amazing things with
people that are doing If you want to learn more
about their organizations, look at that reach out read up
on the internet. Contact them. We do this because we
(49:31):
it's a passion of ours. We would love to put
that passion to other people, So reach out. They need
some volunteers. We all need a little bit of help.
And if you need some education and awareness too. Great
sources right here. Please thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
I appreciate it. And everybody else out there. If you
are looking for help of any type, mental health, substance use, disorder,
whatever the case may be, reach out. You're not alone.
We are three examples of it. We are there. People
are there for that. Everybody else out there. I hope
you got something out of this, because I certainly did.
(50:06):
Thanks for all tuning in today and being here. Remember
whatever is you stand for, be a voice. This is
a brick Carpenter on Usula Media. Have a great rest
of your day.
Toye. This is Brick Carpenter and thanks for joining me today.
This season, I've been talking a lot about switching gears.
I talked about switching gears in personal lives, professional lives,
just in general, and switching gears is something we talk
about because it's necessary. It's a necessity in life for
people to evolve, for people to change, for people to grow.
And a lot of my guests this season have I've
(00:44):
been dealing with switching gears in their lives and a
lot of them have been switching gears in what they
do in their advocacy world. And today I have two
of my favorite people with me today that I sort
of had a trick into being here today. But that's
cool because they're both here and I'm excited about it.
Today I have Carla Safransky and I have gen Steinfeld. Hi, ladies, Hi,
(01:05):
come on, be excited.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Because your hair looks great.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
It does, doesn't it? Thank you? So is yours? So
as yours, Carla, not.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
As graces yours.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I know, I know. So this isn't about me, ladies,
This is not about me. Even though you had no
idea what you're walking into. Well, Carlo, you sort of
did I told you to my podcast, You know I did, Jen,
I just had to tell you to show up, because Jen,
that's just the way life goes, you know, And and
she did, well, you know what it is, because I
think it's not in an ask for I told her
(01:33):
it was one of those like you have to be there,
and she she was, and it was good. And it's
good because like the energy I can get for the
two of you, especially about this season of switching gears
and and our lives and things like that, can can
really go. And I know who you are and what
you do. And but you know, tell they everybody listening, Carla,
who are you? What do you do?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And oh geez, who am I? What do I do?
I feel like I asked myself that every morning. I
don't really know what I do anymore? So who am I?
I guess? In my workspace, I am an executive director
for the Pennsylvania Harm Reduction Network, which is a statewide
grassroots advocacy organization that fights against terrible policy coming here
(02:18):
in Pennsylvania around drugs and promotes and supports evidence based
policy that can actually keep people alive. And then what
else am I? Additionally? You know I'm a mother, you know,
I'm a friend, I have family members. You know, I
play many different roles. I have three pets right now
that I need to figure out how to get fed
(02:39):
that I forgot about, you know, like there's lots of
different roles that we all play in life.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Absolutely, how long you been doing your advocacy work.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I've been doing this work for I don't know, over
ten years, and in different in different spaces, right, So
like in the mental health space, that worked a lot
on party law, disability rights, housing, and then substance use,
and then came more so closely around harm reduction efforts
probably about six seven years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Policy fun, right, Yeah, a lot of fun. People say policy,
and I back away just because you know, I understand
it and I can advocate for it. But I do
better on the streets. I do better, you know, the
hands on. But the policy is necessary. It's tedious, yes,
but it's necessary for people to be schooled, for people
(03:32):
to be educated on the awareness. And you know that's
that's I don't know, I get scared with policy.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I mean, the truth is that I've done direct service
work and the outreach work and the street work for
many years and I think that if you don't want
to burn out in this space, you got to switch
it up. You know. I commend anybody that does direct
service work because I know how hard that is, especially
(04:01):
for the people that are like I've been doing this
for ten twenty thirty years, like God bless you, because
I could not and I would burn out and I
wouldn't be able to serve anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And I get it. And it's funny you say, you know,
switching up, because we need to. We need to do
that for ourselves. We need you to keep our sanity. Yeah,
you know. I mean I think people, you know, people
will really they'll stroke our egos. And it's great, you know,
the work that we do, but I think people don't
really realize what happens when we get behind those doors
at home sometimes. So, you know, but Jen, thank you
(04:30):
so much for being here. You know, sorry that I
you know, had to sort of not give you the
full story. But you're here. You look great. I love
your hat, crumbums, that's perfect. I get it. But I
know you, Jen, and you know there's other people out
there who know you. But who is Jen Scheinfeld?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I just wanted to know what three pets you have
at home.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
She did get excited when you said that. Her face
lit up.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So I have Butchery and Penny, which are two French
bulldogs who require lots of attention, of course, And and
by the way, I protested all three of these animals.
I did not want them, and they were, as you know,
my late fiance's pets. And then I have Max the cat.
Max Cat's cool, although he did go missing for a
few hours just today, which pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Then he came back. But yeah, is he indoor outdoor? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Which is like no good, you know, like you need
to pick one, like you can't be both.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
No.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, it's like the work that we do, like you
can't be direct service and policy.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Question yeah yeah, yeah, which he's really good at. I
love it. But jen Steinfeld, you are an advocate and
we know this. Send people know that, but really, you know,
you are the executive director of the Everywhere Project.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I am the executive director of the EVERWEP Project, which
is a grassroots arm reduction organization in the city of Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And what do you do?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Stuff and things?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Stuff and things, you know, And it's funny when you
say that. For you, that's what it is right. It's
stuff and things. We just do this stuff. We do
these things and it's almost second nature the stuff and
things that you do. But you know, to other people
it's like, wow, I can never do that. You know,
break it down a little bit, Jen tell us the
Everywhere Project, what was the inception of it? Why and
(06:20):
what exactly was that whole goal in doing stuff and things.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
The Everwhere Project is completely volunteer, lead and run, and
quite frankly, I think none of us two are on
the team envisioned it ever becoming what it is today.
We started out with one folding table. Actually we didn't
(06:48):
start out with any tables. We started out with our
cars and wagons or book bags and a bunch of misfits.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Met up and realized that we all.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Had common values and linked and suddenly we grew into
this large community and it's beautiful and we provide services
to over a thousand people a week with harm reduction supplies,
hot meals, pantry items, clothing, wound care referrals to services.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Right now, we're working with people.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Who are getting out of medical care to make sure
that they have what they need before they go into
sober living. People who are doing re entry things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
That's stuff and things us, you know, and that's a daily,
that's a daily and we just sort of do this,
you know, without thinking. It's almost robotic sometimes, you know,
getting up, you know your calendar, you know what you
got to do, you know what your focus is, and
you know. But you know, when we peel layers back,
you know, the work that we do is not common work.
(07:58):
And you know, to to people, it's like whoa you know,
and there's always that why, you know, and I'm gonna
ask it, you know, Like for me, you know, the
why why was because of my lived experience, you know,
five overdoses. I I you know, wrote the book on
overdosing and heroin I feel sometimes in my world. And
you know, the why was because you know, if not,
(08:20):
I'd be dead and I needed to stay alive. And
giving service back, especially to a community I took so
much from, was very important to me. But you know,
not many people just do this work, especially since it's
all volunteer the nonprofit sector. You are not making it rich,
that is for sure, unless you're leading one of the
top organizations out there. So the why, Carla, what is
(08:42):
the why? Oh God?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I mean, there's so many whys, right, and a lot
of it's just like how could you not like once
you start learning what's really going on out there, like
how do you how do you go to sleep at night?
Like just the that that's okay? And what I mean
by that is like you know, of course my same
(09:04):
wise is just probably a lot like yours and gens
like our own substance use. You know, I stopped using
heroin at twenty six. The heroin I used looks nothing
like the fentanyl that is out there today. That's like
destroying people's bodies. You know, I did minimal damage to
my body compared to others today. And uh, you know,
my sister died in the streets out here, My fiance
(09:25):
just passed away four years ago. It feels like yesterday,
hundreds of friends.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I mean, the.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Reality of it is is our generation is like half.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Wiped out, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You know. And I think when you look at the policies,
and for me, like in the advocacy base in particular,
like when you look at the policies that are in place,
it's like, of course our generations wiped out, like these
are our laws, Like of course people are dying all
over place they can't get access, you know. And and
(09:56):
that's really what my why is right now in that moment.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And I'm glad you say what you said because when
people ask me that, like, you know, well, what's your why?
You know, it wasn't just that one thing. It wasn't
just that aha moment. It was a series of them.
It was waking up next to the toilet in the roundhouse,
you know, with my shirt as a pillow. You know,
when I got arrested. It was you know, getting revived
in my car while my car was against the wall.
(10:23):
And like, there's a series of whys. Yeah, there's a
whole bunch of them that go along with it. And
people forget that, like people have lies prior to that,
you know, like and people that look like us don't
normally get associated with, you know, substance use disorder or
using hairin especially because there's such you know, a misconception
about it, you know, especially this whole war on drugs
(10:43):
misconception you know about it, and you know, and people
forget that. You know, everybody has lost through this war
on drugs, and everybody is losing and we continue to
do so. And you know, our generation is getting wiped.
It's crazy. And you know, it's funny because I think,
I'll a lot of us that do what we do
is because we do it because we want to try
to control what we can control, and when we realize
(11:06):
it's not really controlling, it's really just being there and
connecting sometimes.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
You know, one thing I'll say is that a lot
of people don't know my lived experience, right, Like I
only use that card here and there, and and I
get asked often like well, what's your why? And I'm like,
because the ship is unjust what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Can I curse?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
We let it curse?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Good?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Okay, got, You're good? Like I'm like, I'm like, this
shit is Unjust what do you mean? Like I don't understand,
Like how the hell do you sit here? And just yes,
I'm like, you know, like I don't understand. I live
with yourself and and like, you know, I went through
a whole experience before in the past, and the nonprofit
sector of like like people of them would say like, oh,
(11:50):
your lived experience, Like I don't know it is taking
you to the top, which is such bullshit, right because
that means that's not valued. But you know, I think
that is go on. It's like no, like right, so
people have lived experience, right. We look all different, right,
and like we have all different skills and we can
do all different things. We can hold podcasts, and we
(12:13):
can run you know, legislation through the Pennsylvania legislature, and
we can also wear clothing designers, we're artists. Like, we're
all different things, and they love to box us. Right.
So for a long time I stopped, you know, sitting
up here and be like, I'm a person in long
term recovering. My recovery looks different than like, no, like
(12:34):
I don't even do that anymore, Like you know, I'm
just like like, how do you not well?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And it is a question of how do you not?
And I think for the three of us, you know,
that's no brainer. You know, we wake up and that's
what we do. You know, we live. If somebody calls
us about something, it's like, oh, let me talk to
you for an hour about that. You know, we can
educate you and make an awareness. And I also think
for other people that you know, sometimes it's you know,
it's not because of that fact of they don't look
(12:59):
at There is a why to it too, you know,
And I often say to myself, I wonder, you know
where I would be if I didn't have substance use disorder,
and what I think? How could I not? Because I
know where I come from. There is a lot of
the closed minded people that were like, ooh, you shot aroin, Yeah,
(13:20):
what's wrong with you? You know? You know, and I
look at that, So I don't know, you know, and
I'm glad you said that, you know, because I think
people don't realize that because there's a lot of people
who will walk by I mean, think about it. You know,
we walk, we walk the streets, we see what's going
on out there, we do harm reduction. People walk by
people on corners all the time and never pay attention.
(13:42):
They never even glance at them and give them a smile.
How could you not?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I mean, listen, they're living a much simpler life, let's
be real, right, Like their lives are much more simple
earth in our lives. So, you know, I don't know,
but I would never go back to being or being
a simpleton.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That's you know. Once you know you know, well, that's
why the power in your voice and what you do
is so important, so people can know. How could you not?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You know?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And and Jen, how about you? I mean your background.
First of all, your background in school is very interesting
to me. You know, yeah, what's your degree there? Jen?
Tell me your degree?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So my background is I have my undergraduate and public
health and my master's degree in epidemiology and biostatistics.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Okay, I was an English major.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I have zero degrees. By the way, I have a genda.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
That's a right. Hey, that's better than nothing, right. I mean,
who you know we have we have degrees in the streets.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Do you know what degrees?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Don't mean exactly? But I want to know what the
hell and epedeimologists or PD say it again, epidemiologists whatever,
Tell me what that does and why what was that
specific thing in that box you check to say?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I want to do this because in order to drive change,
you need numbers, right, So I knew that the numbers
would direct the funding. And if I had access to
the numbers and could make those numbers make sense to
the people who had the money, I could direct change.
(15:15):
So that's why I got that degree.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I've known her for so long and we are first
time I ever heard that, and I love it. I
love that. So you went and got your masters in
that so you can drive change. Yeah, and you have,
You've been able to utilize that.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, that was my whole goal going into it, and
I started my whole career in the world of HIV.
I did HIV research for ten years, working with vulnerable
populations across the city of Philadelphia, and then moved to
work primarily with people who use substances.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And yeah, it's crazy. Ten years and a HIV work.
That's a lot, you know, and switching gears to go
into substance utes, but not really as switching gears because
that goes hand in hand. People really forget that. I
think people forget too that. You know, when Prevention Point
Philly was first written as that known as the Needle
(16:18):
Exchange back then, but as the syringe Exchange, it was
written for HIV, you know, populations, Nobody remembers that. People
only think of it as being for people who are
doing drugs, you know, and they forget that. There's such
correlations between everything we've talked about, between you know, the
substance utes, the mental health, the physical issues, you know, physiological,
(16:43):
so much to do and you know, but you know,
so driving change, driving change is so important, you know,
and I want to make it clear that when you
started the Everywhere project, you didn't start it in Kensington.
You were driving change in the city. You went everywhere,
you went into the subway as you went around. You
even had a team member who got punched in the face.
(17:03):
But we won't get into that. We'll talk about that
another time.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That's a story for another day.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
That's a great story.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But yeah, we're out until We would be out until three, four, five,
six in the morning on Saturdays doing distribution across the
city of Philadelphia, making sure that everyone everywhere had access
to food, clothing, harm reduction supplies.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
When you say harm reduction supplies, and you know, I
have two what I consider leaders. When I first got
into Philly, Unknown and harm Reduction, and I was connecting
with the harm reduction community, I believe it or not,
like the two of you. The names I heard and
I was like, oh my gosh, I want to meet them.
You know, I love the work that they're doing. I mean,
you did some you do great work, you know, and
(17:46):
you know, and to me, that's what I wanted to
surround myself by people doing great work and doing good
things and learning from them and you know, integrating and
connecting in that aspect. And but you know when you
say harm reduction, you know what does that mean and
what is it when in your world that you hand
out and that you do.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Harm reduction is actually all encompassing. So even when I
say food and clothing, that's harm reduction. Food is arm reduction.
Nutritionous harm reduction. Woond care is harm reduction, clothing, fresh
socks is harm reduction. People walking for five miles a day,
they need fresh socks.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
A lot of us are very privileged to come home
and be able to take our socks off at the
end of the day and wash our feet. How great
does that feel? But in simpler terms, when we say
harm reduction, a lot of people just attribute that to
safer you supplies, So we give those out, So we
do safer use supplies works, safer smoking kits, safer snorting kits,
(18:47):
and the locks own testing strips and things like that,
and everything comes with education. Right. My biggest pet peeve
is that we assume that people who use substances know
how to use the materials. That's not true. You can't
just throw a test trip at someone, say use drugs,
(19:07):
so you know how to use this?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Oh, it's like a litmus test a what exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So whenever we offer something, we also offer education along
with it to make sure that people know how to
utilize it properly. Because if you don't know how to
use the tool you're given, it's useless.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Oh wait, I mean, so you're giving people things and
you're educating them on that. What a brilliant concept, you know,
which leads me to Carla. I mean, you've been the
executive director of the Pennsylvania Harm Reduction Network for how long?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Jeez? I think three years?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Four years?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Three maybe?
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And what is the pr Harm Reduction Network? What is
it responsible for? What does it do? I mean, I
know you're talking about legislation and driving policy.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, so, like the real goal is the shift culture
around Pennsylvania. Right, So, like in Philadelphia, we're kind of
like in this bubble zone. And I was in that
bubble zone for a very long time, right where like
and can run around the streets to Philadelphia and for
the most part give out the supplies without being harassed
or arrested for them in most areas, I would say, right, right, So,
(20:11):
prior to the new administration, prior to the new administration,
different show that is correct, but the rest of the
state looks very differently.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And oh wait, so this isn't just centralized to Kensington
and Philly. So this this whole epidemic, which is not
an epidemic, it's a public health crisis. This is statewide.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So the public health crisis is state wide, believe it
or not.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Wise, it's not just pennsylvaniaationwise. So we got to get
out of our bubbles.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Huh So, yeah, the bubble, it threw me through a
loop coming out of the bubble, I'm not gonna lie.
You know, when I traveled the state and I was
talking to all of these different people who were like
trying to do the same things that you do, but
were being harassed by cops. Not only that their families
were being harassed. You know, the stories I would hear.
(21:07):
They'd be like, I'd walk up the mountain to give
John in a lockstow and I'm like, wait a minute, what,
like is this real life? And zero support? Zero support,
you know, no funding and really like no resource and
no like network of people coming together. And so that's
(21:27):
kind of how the organization was born because of all
these different groups of people who had no idea even
honestly that they I was like, yeah, that's harm reduction.
They're like, yeah, man, I just want people to be alive.
I'm like, yeah, man, so do I Like, that's what
we're all doing out here, and so shifting culture with
a lot of time. What that looks like is like
(21:48):
getting into communities and having conversations. Some of them are
difficult conversations, right, and some of them go really well,
and it's unexpectedly well, you know, and just like saying, like,
if we supply people with stero syringes, we might see
a drop in HIV new infections around the state, especially
(22:09):
in Central Pennsylvania. It's possible we could see a drop
in HCVA. You know, the CDC has targeted in Central Pennsylvania.
These are all localized hotspots and they're going to numbers
are growing to continue to climb. And that's where law
enforcement's like, oh really, yeah, really great, Okay, let's get
on board. And sometimes conversations are that simple, right, like
(22:31):
educating people. Other times not so much.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And it's really as simple as you said, sitting down
and just doing this, having a conversation. So that was
my ultimate goal was to have this type of conversation
that people can hear, that people can understand, that people
can know that, you know, we got to get out
of our bubbles, especially in a city like Philadelphia. In Philly,
you can live on one block and have zero clue
(22:55):
what's going on a block or two blocks away. It's
a different world to you. It's just you know, people
go in, they shut their door, they don't leave. There's
no type of community sensed in some of those aspects.
So you get to those those counties that are in
the rural part of Pennsylvania, which is every part of
Pennsylvania other than really.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
It's which I also did not know by the way.
You know, I did not know this, but we.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Always say Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and pennsyl.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
TUCKI like, until you're in it, you will, like for me,
like until I'm one of those people like I gotta go.
I need to see. And I saw and I was like,
oh wow.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
They don't call driving across frute eighty God's Country for nothing,
because you are out there in the sky. It's very interesting,
but it's also it's also a little scary to a
point because of the fact that, like you just said it,
you know, a guy. I take some locks on up
the mountain to Johnny and it's like, what, how does
(23:49):
that make sense? You know, we are maybe we're a
little more privileged because we have greater access to it,
we're greater resources or people talking to us more so.
So what you're doing is amazing because it's necessary.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
What they're doing is amazing and because it's so necessary, right,
and like I'm just trying to take the information that's
out there produced by people like y'all and like just
carry it. Like that's really like what's happening is I'm
like a messenger of education and hopes to shift culture.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
That's awesome. Do you ever feel like sometimes we're just
spinning your.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Wheels every day?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
You made your face right away, because I know you
do too, and we all do that. So what do
you do when you feel like you're doing that to
stop spinning the wheels, to move on or to get
out of that? Because what we can do could be
very thankless.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Usually the chicken dance for a.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Little while doing you really, can you video that next
time you do that? For me?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, I've realized that any song you can chicken dance too,
and it's just fine.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So if I play some music, now you do that
for us?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
No, sh no, you already tricked me into being here,
so you're not getting that.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Try next time we'll do that. We'll just But you know,
what do we what what do you do to get
out of that, to get to that next level to
remain positive, because, as I said, it's thankless. A lot
of what we do is is not you know, roses
(25:26):
and sunshine at the end of the day. Every day,
I mean, we walk away from some really shitty circumstances
and traumatic incidents that we do have to take home
with us. We just can't shut that door and say, Okay,
I'm putting the switch and it's off now, you know,
and now I'm home and that rolls on. So what
do you do besides maybe drink heavily? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I don't do that anymore, thankfully. I think the universe
is happy about that too, because really the earth is
not scorched, right.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So I have.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I keep an album on my phone called worth It
for Things that make the work worth it for me, people,
places and things. So when I feel beaten down, I
go back and.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Look at it. And when it feels like it's.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Overwhelming, defeating, or fruitless. I will go back through that,
and that's a reminder for me.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I love that because they teach you. You know, of course,
you know, and you know in recovery that people, places,
and things are bad. You know, are supposed to be
bad for you. You know, because you know that reminds you
and triggers you of whatever the circumstance was. But to
be able to use people, places, and things on a
positive to remind yourself of that why or the tons
of whys that come with it, you know, that's really cool.
(26:52):
I never really heard anybody put it that way, because
every time I hear people placing things, it always comes
with the negative connotation. So that's awesome to hear that.
How about you besides your two frenchies.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
No, that is not a positive. That is not if
you hear Butchie screaming like a dying whale every day,
that's not a positive. They everyone runs me. The kid
runs me, the dogs run me, the cat runs me,
everybody runs me.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I sounds terrible. I hate cardio.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
It's like some days I wake up and I'm like,
how the fuck did I get wrapped up in this life?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Like?
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Who am I? And I don't know, so like, I
celebrate the small wins, right, so like, and sometimes they're
really small, but that's a fucking win, you know, And
I think that it's so important, and you know, to
celebrate the small ones, like you have to celebrate the
small ones. And as for everything else, you know, I'm
(27:50):
pretty good at shutting down and shutting out everybody for
a little bit. And I have a So the great
thing is about my house is that I have this
basement where the dogs cannot go because they're scared to
go down the steps because they're steep. The cat does
harass me downstairs, and that does happen, and he's like, oh,
(28:10):
this is my time now, and he's like and he
like talks NonStop too, and I'm like, I'm gonna lock
you upstairs. So me and facts argue. But the kid
don't come downstairs either because she thinks that I'm going
to ask her to do something like how we laundry
up So we play this game so she doesn't calm down.
And then even if she does try to come down,
like oh, Gray, can you take upstairs, she's like, this
(28:31):
is why I don't come down here. So I keep
that just like that and the Carla Cave. So in
the Carla Cave is like, I don't know, pick a
new hobby that I think that I'm going to start
like monthly, right, So it's like I learned how to
I did like beginner woodworking, right, I know, right, like
who am I? And then then Instagram got me into
(28:55):
like resin pours, and then I don't know. Sometimes that
it's like you know, with music and a bottle of vodka,
and sometimes that's just you know, me with everything shut
down and keeping the cat upstairs and when I'm in it,
like I'm silent, you know, like sometimes I just need
my mind to quiet.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Down, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And I don't think that people realize that we talk
like I say this all the time. I'm like, we
talk like we talk from the minute we wake up
till we go to sleep, Like we talk a lot.
And some for me, who is an introvert extrovert, you
guys clearly see the extroverts side of me, Like I
(29:39):
could be very introverted too, and and like sometimes I
just need like everyone and everything to shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah,
so that's my care if everyone and everything can just
shut the fuck.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Up and that's really hard sometimes because you know, you
are in charge of an organized that's very important. You
have people that you know answer to you, that you
have the answer to. And you know the same with
Jen with the Everywhere project. You know, all the people
that you serve, everything that you do, all the people
that are involved, all those you know, and with Philly
(30:14):
Unknown and all those little cogs that we have going on,
it's really hard for us to just sit down, turn
it all out and tell everybody just shut the fuck up,
you know, because sometimes that's all you want to do. Yeah,
that's why I do not disturb works really great, but
it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
People just keep doing I know, I hit today, I
hit notify anyway. I was like, yeah, I'm doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I'm okay with that. It's still on silent then, so
it's all right.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I was wondering. I'm like, why does he always have
his notifications? So I'm like, what a nice life he
must have got, right, I'll.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Give you The other morning, I went for a meeting
with an organization and their harm reduction team and I
sat there and I was there no lie. Twenty five
minutes picked up my phone and there was fifteen text
messages in twenty five minutes. I don't even like fifteen
people sometimes and talk to them. You know, no offense
to everybody who that was. I'm not saying what day
(31:06):
it was, but you know, it's like, really why. And
that's not just with Philly unknown. That's also because I
have my business and it's also just life. And I
also get a lot of people because of what I do,
reach out and they want to they need some information.
A lot of parents. I deal with a lot of
parents because I don't know, maybe because as I'm old
(31:27):
and that's their age, and you know, they don't understand
their kids. And it's a way to do that. I
don't know, but it's hard to shut down. Jen. How
about you? And real quick, I want to real quick
throw it in there. I want people to hear that
Carla said that you know about at vodka, It is
very possible to be in recovery and still do things
(31:47):
that don't make you want to be dead.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Oh yeah, should elaborate on that a little bit more so,
I need to.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
You don't need to, because recovery is your way. But
there's people when they hear that long term recovery, they
associate the word recovery with some right, and I want
people to get away from that because that's a stigma.
To me, that's a stigma. Sobriety is a stigma because
now you're telling somebody that if you are on M,
A T or you whatever, you're not as valued. Correct
fu you? Yes, I work my ass off, just stay
(32:16):
alive recovery.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
So I say I'm a moderated recovery.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Interesting, maybe that Okay, just don't say California recovery please,
I hate that.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
What's that? That's like when you smoke?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Why, I don't know that's recovery. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I just say I'm a moderator recovery because I don't
have a chaotic relationship.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
With a lot of words, right, like include all these
words now, and it's just like my recovery is my recovery.
I do say my recovery might look different than yours
to try to give people like an idea, but you
should say that, right, right of course. But yeah, it's
like I'm so tired of like defining ship.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right about riding anymore. It's about people staying alive.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
What's your wellness?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Like?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, because I know those people that are out
there that are their whole life is nothing but rah recovery.
I know they're not happy. Yeah so, but but Jenny
and your moderated recovery like that, what do you do
for that peace of mind? To shut down and shut
it off? Because you, my friend, I know you have
that trouble.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Do not disturb. It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
And there's a setting where you can turn off the
double call feature. You can, you can turn that shit
right off, and you can turn off all the little
red notifications as well.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
So I set up.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Why don't have the red notifications turned off? I don't
want people to know that shit, So.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
I have everything shut off.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
So if I put do not disturb on, it's I'm
a ghost for the day.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I love it. So what do you do for fun?
Then I will because you, my friend, work seven days
a week.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
I'm aware.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I try not to.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I tried to take Sundays.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I had it for a while, I lost it. I will,
I will capture it back. I'll read sometimes I take
up knitting, usually in the winter.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
What have you knitted so far?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Uh? A third of a scarf?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You can finish that? Maybe?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Maybeeah?
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Maybe like twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Little by little, like Carlos said, celebrate the little victories.
Little by little becomes a lot of people. I try
to remind people of that that no matter how little
we do, each time we add more little to that,
it becomes a lot, and all the may become very
big victories and one big victory overall. And you know,
and people don't see that. People don't see our little victories,
(34:49):
do they, because we don't really broadcast and there's so
many of them. I think sometimes just by putting a
smile on people's face each day is a victory, especially
your own, that's a victory. It's hard to smile sometimes.
I feel in my world, you know, I fake it.
You know you try, but you know there's you know,
(35:11):
do you do you ever find yourself like wanting to
just say totally fuck it, I'm done, I'm out. I
want to do something different. There's a different box I
want to check and try, both of you, either of
you yeah, yeah, every day? Yeah, what would what would
you do? What would you what would be ideal? What
would be that dream thing that you could do? Oh?
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I have no idea. That's why when you asked the
first question, well, like what do you do? I'm like,
I don't even know what I do though I don't know.
It's like, what do you want to be when you
when you grow up? I still don't know what I
want to be when I grow up.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Are you good with what working when you did it?
Speaker 3 (35:42):
No? No? The reason And I didn't like just say
I didn't pick up a book and say like I'm
going to find a hobby today. What had happened was
when Ted and I bought this house the guy it
was an old print shop, and the guy left his
woodworking tools, like these are like old dusty like tools, right,
(36:05):
And so when Ted died, the only place I could
go to to be alone, because I had like thirty
different people in my house every given day was the basement.
Oh and I smoked SIGs in the basement. So that's
another thing. So that's like the real reason whey I'm
down there now, get yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You get to smoke cigarettes out.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
So so I would go smoke SIGs in the basement,
and like as I would paste the basement, thinking like shit,
like this is my life, Like what's the deal? What
am I gonna do? What I want to be when
I grow up? All those things I found there's woodworking tools.
And then you know, you spend as much time in
the basement you hang out like anywhere with a bunch
of stuff around you, you're gonna eventually pick it up.
(36:44):
And that's what happened. Yeah, So I started picking up
the tools and started playing with them. Then YouTube came
into play, and the next thing you know, I'm like
building a shop.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I don't know. That's cool though, that's really cool.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
A thing or two.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, how about you doing anything I think of for
what that you would do? Like that? You could dream
of a bookshop? Really? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Just fuck it. I'm opening up a bookshop.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's awesome. As an English major, I love that. That's
that's sick. That's perfect. So you get lost in reading?
Do you like books or are you a kindle person?
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Books?
Speaker 1 (37:19):
My mother gave me two kindles? Why I don't understand
those like I have? First of all, I hate the phone.
Why want I want to read a kindle? So like
I love the books. I like to feel the paper
and just having that in my hand. So do you
read often? Is it a frequent thing?
Speaker 4 (37:36):
It should be more frequent than it is. But yes,
I try.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
To anything in particular, not historical fiction.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
But other than that, almost anything you.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Know you mentioned, may I ask you mentioned about you
mentioned Teddy and you mentioned, you know, when he passed
a few years Would you mind sharing at all about that?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah, I meant he was a person that I mean, honestly,
he's the person who really brought me into the harm
reduction space, right, Like he's you know, we were together
for eleven years, and there was good years and there
was bad years, right, and just like any other relationship
that's out there, and for fifty percent of the time,
(38:23):
like he really struggled. And at the time, I was
in absence based twelve Step Fellowship Recovery and and yeah,
and like I watched how the fellowship treated him, and
you know, he was getting high and I'd be like, well,
did you pray today, han, And he's like you don't
get the fuck away from me, you know what. And
I'm like, what, that's not helping, He's dope, say lighting there,
(38:45):
I'm like, well did you pry? Like it's like I'll
kill you.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Out, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
And And the truth is is like he was a
person who got wrapped up in the criminal justice system
at the age of thirteen years old. And he never
left the criminal justice system and died at the age
of forty five. And so, you know, and he was
a great person and he was He's a victim to
the system one hundred percent. You know, juvenile justice system
(39:14):
did him wrong. He was incarcerated at seventeen for thirteen
years and did thirteen year bid. They did him wrong,
you know. And of course he had a substance Like
why wouldn't you have a substance use disorder getting out?
And he tried his best, and I can wholeheartedly say
that he tried his best with everything that he was
(39:36):
dealt and and you know, he went to go use
and this is right at the spike ephentanol, and you know,
the drugs that he was using in the past wasn't
the same. And you know, he died alone in a
work in a house that he was working in and
he died alone. And I knew almost immediately that he
(39:58):
was like dead. And and the way that like it
had impacted our lives, you know, is has been tremendous.
And I think that that's one thing that people don't
really think about, is the butterfly effect that happens in families,
right is like you know what happens to our children,
you know, the trauma that they're going to take on
(40:20):
from the death.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I always say, like, you know, like our parents, I
think we're all around kind of the same age. Like
our parents were like fucked right, Like they never dealt
with their trauma. They like that shit, like like they
don't talk about that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Like they still don't, right, And we're not supposed.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
To exactly right, So like we took on their trauma, right,
and like so we have like but we're a little
bit aware, we're a little bit woke, right, Maybe some
of us want the therapy, maybe somebody didn't. So we
have like half of it. And then we have our
children or my child who like, you know, she thinks
she's woke as fuck, right, and she's like she's you know,
and she you know, she knows everything. She's like out
(40:59):
there like this. You know, she's gonna be fifteen, and
she's been in you know, she's been in received all
different types of mental health treatment, very differently than what
that looked like for me as a child being institutionalized
many times. And I'm gonna say I always say this,
I'm like Rihanna, I'm like your children are gonna be
good to go, Like they're gonna be good because the
(41:20):
next her generation and the way that their parent I
can only hope through all of this crisis, right, And
like even thinking about Teddy's death is that it will
carry on to a larger message of like hope and
survival that will be like worked out. I mean, that's
(41:40):
the hope. We can't be doing the shit for nothing.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Right, absolutely, And I like that you said that greater message.
I don't think about that sometimes. I don't really think
about that ever, because I just sort of think about
today and think about like, you know, it's interesting people say,
you know, the work that you do is so awesome,
it's so great you're doing in this work, and I
don't look at it like that. I never once I'm like,
(42:03):
oh yeah, you know, you know, I don't like I
tell people what I'm doing because it's awareness and it's
showing people that there's compassion and humanity and it's and
it exists out there. But you you said it that
there is that that trickle down effect or is that
butterfly effect? Everybody is somebody someone, they belong to, somebody somewhere,
and that affects not just the person, it affects their
(42:27):
entire being and those around them, you know, And you know, Jen,
that's something that you know, you deal with on a
daily you know, in life with the people that you
deal with and with the people that are friends of
ours and the people that ourselves. You know, we deal
with that and it's really hard to be able to
deal with the shit that we're dealt with and still
(42:48):
be able to sit here and talk about it, smile
and go about our day.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I came to the realization earlier this year that I'm
not going to be alive for the world that I
want to live, but I am going to be able
to help pave the road for the future world that
I would love to live in.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
So that keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
What fueled that though? From the start? Where did that
fuel come from in the start? To just ignite that
passion to do this, to do this work. Yeah, to
do this abbocacy work, because like Kreva said, why not?
But not everybody has that? Why not?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
I believe in people, That's what it comes down to.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
I think all.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
People deserve to be treated with dignity, empathy, and compassion
and respect, and that is how I treat everybody. How
you said people will walk by someone and not acknowledge them.
That's not within my spirit to be able to do that,
but it My why has always just been that people
(44:04):
need people and everyone deserves to be treated compassionately.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
You said dignity, respect, compassion, empathy. Four things that you
can't teach people. Interesting. Four things that you really can't
teach people. You can show them and we do that daily,
but you can't teach somebody that. So that's something that's inherent,
(44:31):
that's something that you're born with. That's something that speaks
volumes to somebody's character. So those things right there, when
you said that, that really hit home with me because
that's exactly what people need. And it's not just people
on the streets. That's not misconstrue. This is everybody. This
has affected everybody. This is a domino effect. This public
health crisis isn't just destroying the people on the streets.
(44:56):
It's destroying our communities. It's destroying residents's neighborhod hoods. You know.
So anything we do, anything that we get through, whether
it's passing policy legislation, handing out in narcan, handing out
safe use products, handing out clothing, all that harm reduction
is salvaging these most vulnerable neighborhoods and people have to
(45:17):
realize that. So that's so important too. So thank you
both for, like you know, showing people that you know,
we need to lead by example and if we can't,
you know, they weren't born with all that inside of them.
Maybe you hope that a little bit of a rub
off somewhere and people takes in. And it did because
you both have a movement going on for you guys
(45:39):
to be serving thousands of people a week and to
have not just like one table set up anymore like
we had fifty people the first night of Love Park,
but to have tents and stations and a massive operation
every week, and for you to not just be like
handing narcan out and say here it's a lip misticks.
Stick it in the water and see if it work.
You know what color it turns. You know, it's not
(46:00):
testing a pool chemical. You're educating people. You're letting people
know what that's for, and you're driving that on an
end that only certain people can do. To have a voice.
It's not just here, it's pa, it's harm reduction and
that spreads the nationwide. So like I, you know, I
think people like us we forget just really how great
(46:22):
we are. I think you guys are amazing. You know
the ship that you put up with. You know where
you're at now, it's great. And you knows is.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Like luring us into buildings upstairwells and just turn right
at the door.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I knew exactly the minute, the minute she looked at
you and she like pierced her. I knew exactly where
she was.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Going with it, Like where am I going?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
And I'm like this, it's very it's very you know,
you have to do what you gotta do, what you
gotta do, right. We do what we got to do
every day. And I also do it because of the
fact that like knowing the two of you and and
and the respect that I have for the two of you.
Als will know that sometimes it's nice to take a break.
Sometimes it's also nice to sort of just sit down
(47:10):
and not do anything, and not look at that phone,
and peel some layers back and and just talk. You know,
because we are people. We are We're not robotics. You know,
It's it's pretty simple. We forget about ourselves sometimes all
that compassion, empathy, you know, awareness we bring to everybody
else there for ourselves. So to be able to do that,
(47:30):
and like, switching gears is so important for me right
now because if not, probably the three of us probably
wouldn't be here if we didn't switch gears in our lives,
you know, and be able to switch what we do
and and and make a difference. And we have to
because what we do forget everything you learn one day,
because tomorrow it's different. So you know, I love that
about it.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
But Jen, you know you have a dog Gonzo my guns.
Didn't you know? We talked about Carl's.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
That's our move, that's move.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
There is Gonzo is a dog of harm reduction. Yeah,
he definitely is. He comes out and he he chills
and you know it's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
He is so like you can take on places. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
He dresses up as Santa Paus on Christmas and goes
out and gives out sucks and other goodies with Santa
Claus around Kensington.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
In the past few Halloweens, I've spent with them handing
candy out and he's outside with his costly mind. Whether
it was a hot dog or a taco or whatever
he was wearing.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
That's so nice. I could never take my dogs anywhere.
They don't know how to act. They don't not act.
I say that all the time. I'm like, this is
why we can of nice things.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
You don't not act. Tell you run you Carlo. So,
PA harm Reduction. If they want to find you on
the internet, on the website, where is what's your website?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah, so website is p h r N dot org.
Our handle is at PA harm.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Reduction and that's on your social media handles. PA harm Reduction.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Don't ask me this question. Google Everywhere project.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
It's like the Underscore Underscore Everywhere Underscore Underscore project, but
the Everywhere project you can find in genets. The Everywhere
project dot org is where you're at. You know, both
organizations doing amazing things, both individuals doing amazing things with
people that are doing If you want to learn more
about their organizations, look at that reach out read up
on the internet. Contact them. We do this because we
(49:31):
it's a passion of ours. We would love to put
that passion to other people, So reach out. They need
some volunteers. We all need a little bit of help.
And if you need some education and awareness too. Great
sources right here. Please thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
I appreciate it. And everybody else out there. If you
are looking for help of any type, mental health, substance use, disorder,
whatever the case may be, reach out. You're not alone.
We are three examples of it. We are there. People
are there for that. Everybody else out there. I hope
you got something out of this, because I certainly did.
(50:06):
Thanks for all tuning in today and being here. Remember
whatever is you stand for, be a voice. This is
a brick Carpenter on Usula Media. Have a great rest
of your day.
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