Breaking Free: Pat Dooley's Journey to Sobriety and Self-Care

In this powerful episode of Be A Voice, host Britt Carpenter sits down with Pat Dooley, a man who is 13 years sober and now dedicates his life to helping others break free from addiction. Pat shares his journey of overcoming addiction and the lessons he's learned along the way, including how controlling one addiction can lead to the development of new ones. The key takeaway? To be able to help others, you must first take care of yourself. Pat also highlights the importance of Philadelphia's recovery support groups and how they empower individuals to not only heal but also engage as active members of their communities. This episode is a testament to resilience, self-care, and the power of community in the recovery process.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome to be a voice. I'm Brick Carpenter and this
is Zuculi Media. Thanks for joining me today. I'm really
excited today because, as we know, this season, I've been
talking about switching gears, and I've been talking about how
switching years is the necessity in life, and that people
really have to take different turns to be able to
get to the places that they're going, and that sometimes
forget everything you learned and the next day it's remembering

(00:44):
it again or learning a whole different thing. So what
I'm doing today is I'm sitting here with somebody who
is very much an expert at switching gears, and someone
who for the past thirteen years of his life has
learned all about it because he recently has just celebrated
thirteen years of continuous sobriety and recovery to damnse in here,

(01:06):
a good friend of mine and the mayor of recovery,
because he is all over like flies on horse crap.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Pat Dooley, Hi, buddy, hey man, how are you great
to see you, Britt. Thanks for having me. He appreciate
it and I'm glad to have you. Congratulations on thirteen years.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, thirteen yeah, lucky number thirteen. Bro, I don't believe
in luck. Yeah, there is no luck. It's all hard
work and determination.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, what are what is it? What's the old saying
my dad used to say, when your preparation is smashed
into by opportunity, that's what we consider good luck. Love it? Yeah,
I love that. I love that one. Thirteen years though,
So that's a hell of a ride, man. Yeah, it
was a lot, have to tell you. You know, it
took uh, it took about ten years to get one year,

(01:50):
you know what I mean, to be honest with you,
you know, just getting getting a little bit. I mean
I had a couple, I had a couple of years
at one point, you know, and you know you think
you do no one's like half ass in it. You know,
you're really thinking that you're doing it. You're making a
full effort. I mean I was as honest and whatever
as I could be at that time. I guess I
really didn't realize it until you know, maybe you come

(02:11):
up against it and you really didn't have the the
strength and the work through. And I really didn't do
all the dig deep you know, deep in digging and
all the stuff that I needed to do. I thought
you did, but then you find out that like something
came along and it just took me off my square.
To be honestly, it wasn't even anything big in particular.
It just you know, it just it just happened. Doesn't

(02:33):
have to be big, it's something really small because sidetracked
you success is probably the hardest thing to handle. Its
compared well, you know, we get so used to having
tough times in your life and how to manage them absolutely,
and then the success comes along, and you know, it's
it's a lot tougher to like when things aren't a problem,
you start putting things back.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Thirteen years of your life you have spent recently in
continuous sobriety, which is amazing. I mean, you know, not
to put anything into your system any you know, any
drugs or alcohol.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
You know, that's hard enough for people to do in.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Dry january that are only do for thirteen years, you know,
And you know, I look at stuff like that, but
you know, how long were you in active substance abuse
disorder or addiction? How long of your life?

Speaker 2 (03:19):
I don't know what you would consider like actual like
you know, addiction, but I mean, like I got arrested
the first time I drank.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
From the first time that somebody is labeled as a
person with substance use disorder the first time they pick
up is the is the is the start of it all?

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Is what I feel. They weren't even calling its substance
use disorder when we when we started, right, it's a
stigma that you know, more than any stigma. Now back
then they are just hunging your head. Well, you know,
it's like weird. I mean, like I was doing. I
was like we had some older friends, you know, play
basketball down the park or whatever, and you know, everybody
was dead heads and we started like just partying in

(03:58):
the woods and whatever. I remember the first time drinking
and next thing, you know, that time, I remember it
like there were signs right. So, like we were at
my dad's apartment, they were out. Was the summertime. A
friend and I went home and played Space Invaders on Atari.
So we're drinking. We pour a drink Cuddy Sark right

(04:18):
and soda. So my grandmother shows up at the back
door and we come in and she's started to come
in house. So this was like an indication of what
it was going to be. When my friend Chip heard
them heard her coming in. He pours his whole drink
down the drain, and of course I guzzled my chugs, right,
I mean proud of you man, Well I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
It never was a question. We don't want to waste that.
You know, it's bad enough that it was sneaking. You
had to do it.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
So how old were you then? Thirteen? Thirteen? Yeah, thirteen
by the time that year was over, that was summer.
I made it to a dead show weed acid drinking
brought home by the cops.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Thirteen years of age. You're at a dead show. First
of all, that's awesome because you know we're dead fat.
We're told that heads, you know, which is a whole
different story.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
But that so. But you were.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Drinking, dropping some ass, and smoking some weed at thirteen
and got arrested all the same.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Night, not in the same night. The drinking and the
arrest part happened the same day. They didn't really arrest me.
We were young enough where Look, the chief of Police's
kid was on my baseball team. So where'd you grow up?
Heading Township, Westmont are your jersey? Yeah? Right over the
bridge literally literally, I was closer to Center City, Philadelphia,

(05:35):
where I grew up than I am now in Delco. Yeah,
because you're a Delco boy now now, yeah. But I mean, listen,
I had some rough rough spot, you know, a rough
couple of years they're in sobriety. But like so I
had some really good friends that were like you know
what I had. I got divorced and I had to
sell my house and like there was a bunch of stuff.
So they were like, come get out of the city.
And I went up there and it's been beautiful for

(05:56):
the dog. I'm right by the woods. I see fox
and deer and like rabbits, and it's it's peace. It's peaceful.
What was your drug of choice? It was all I mean.
I started in the bottle and I ended in the bottle,
you know what I mean. But like you were a
drinker more more was my drama, to be honest with you,
because you know the whole idea of that, I had

(06:17):
these voices that you couldn't shut up, right, like not
like you know, schizophrenic, but more like you're fat, you're
a loser, you're ugly, like all the ones that like
just da da da da da da da da da
da da da just kept you going and going and going,
and then it was like that's when they talk about
the progression of the disease. It was like beer worked fine,
and then booze worked fine, and then booze wasn't working.

(06:37):
So eventually then once you know, it's just like anybody
else when you eventually find opiate's you know, you were
in the minor leagues, and eventually that shut me up.
You know, I was in love with that, like love itself,
you know, And once I found that, I was like
I felt like I actually breathed out for the first time.
And then by the time I was done, I'm drinking again,

(06:58):
you know what I mean. So it's like I don't
really think I had to drug a choice.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Just so when you're thirteen years of age, I mean,
first of all, you know, we're nowhere near being developed
the way we could or should be. It's really just
a start of development for us around that time. And
you know, because of you know, effect of you know,
thirteen years of age when puberty starts to thoroughly set
in and you know, changes start to happen, and then
you have this eighteen years of age and twenty five,
so you were at a real pivotal changing point.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And when was it you realized that this was actual
problem when you were like, oh my gosh, I got
a problem. Well, I mean I kind of knew right away.
I mean I mean at thirteen years of age, were
you realize this? Well? I knew that my friends were
all right. So here's another story. That's the summer October.
My birthday is the seventeenth of October. So Halloween. Now,

(07:47):
I'm what, I just turned fourteen by two weeks. So
my friend's on Cherry Hill. They're all like, we're gonna
have a we're gonna have a little party. We're gonna
do Halloween. Everybody's gonna come over. We're gonna trick or treat.
So I had a newspaper route right this This these
are the indications of the awareness you have looked. Maybe
maybe I didn't know then, but since I've had this time,
I was able to look back and see these moments

(08:09):
with a little bit more clarity. At fourteen, I took
my bike with my newspaper bag, went to the liquor store,
got someone to get me two cases of beer. I
drove the seven miles on my bike with the newspaper
bag full of ice, went to the place where we
were gonna hang out, dug a big, huge hole, buried
the beer with the ice, went out, drove back to

(08:30):
seven miles, got dropped off by my mom at the party,
and went back. And then whenever we went to the woods,
there was already the beer there. But that's the effort
I was making. If you were a teen, you had
it all down. Huh, well, I mean like like, and
then I ended up graduation that same year, eighth grade,
I ended up like sneaking into school the night before

(08:51):
and hiding two bottles of rum in the in the
toilets stand up toilets and sold them for a dollar
a shot to all the kids during graduation dance.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
How many years were you in an active addiction until?
What age was it at? Thirteen years ago?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Well, the first time I ended up, I had a
really good girlfriend at the time. That was about twenty six,
so it was ninety five, So yeah about that. That's
so about thirteen years at that point when I first
realized I had to do something, had her. She was
beautiful inside and out. School teacher like. My dad was like,

(09:25):
you really ill kicked your coverage with this one, you
know what I mean? And then I said that to
her later on in life, but she was like, she
made a great point. She was like, I knew who
you were, who you could have been, you know, the potential.
But like, so thirteen her years or so, because Jerry
died that same year, my grandmother died and then you know,
she kicked me in the curb. So it was a
rough year at nineteen ninety five. So it was about

(09:48):
about thirteen years almost before I started the journey. Wow,
first time I went, I remember my dad taking me
up to the Salvation Army in Trenton Mulberry Street and
I was he was leave then, I'm like, the guy
was like, the guy at the front desk was like, no, no,
you don't, you can't. You don't understand. He can't stay here.
If he doesn't pass the drug test, he can't stay here.

(10:09):
My dad was like, no, no, no, no, you don't understand.
He might not be staying here, but he's not coming
back with me.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
How my problem? Yeah, so he was your dad was
at that point, not my problem.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
He came out with a tear in his eye though
to say he was a good man. He loved me
to you know.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Sometimes you know, parents don't understand what to do, you know,
and I think a lot of people don't know what
to do. I mean, you know pat better than I do,
because you now work in the field, and that's so
important that you've taken you know, your whole you know,
negative and harnessed it and made into a positive by
now working in the field and working with people that
are inactive addiction or have substanitutes disorder and being able

(10:40):
to be a mentor for them, appear to them. You
know that that that's important, That is so important. But
so thirteen years ago you said to yourself that's it.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I'm done.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
I'm powerless. I can't do this anymore. I have exceeded
my limits. I am burnt the fuck.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I don't know. I don't know that that was really
the way it was. I had made some conservative efforts
well before that that I was really on board with it, okay,
But that the last time, I don't know what happened.
I just came in. I went to the Salvation Army
again because I have no insurance again. Sally. Yeah, it
saved my life, Sally, Sally.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
I don't think people realize that the Sally actually saves
a lot of people lives. It also teaches a lot
of people how to boost very well from working in this.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
You know what there was all there was, all those
components of it.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
You know, it's just you know, people, if you're gonna
take stuff to the Sally, make sure you check your
cushions because if not, they will.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, they they'll find it. Pop, they'll find it and
they'll take the rest of the day off. If we're
gonna donate it, make sure the stuff's out of there.
And you could see someone your pockets because they will.
And jewelry anyway, it was. It was a great, great place.
So I mean I went there a couple of times
and then I I literally I got I ended up
relapsing a couple of times while I was there. I

(11:57):
had I had, like but what I originally went down
to that Salvation Army the first time got sober after
the girlfriend incident in ninety five. I ended up going
to Florida for like eight years. Had a couple of
friends on my deadhead buss. We jumped on. We went
down key West for bike Week Marty Gras. We just
spent the winter driving around and I met some people

(12:18):
down there. I met some well they ended up becoming
really good friends over the years, but they were friends
of friends at the time. I met a girl, my
friend's mom, like she was a snowbird, asked me to
stay at the house while she came up to Maine.
Just met her, and then my friend had a job opportunity.
So I was like telling myself, this is fate. You know,
within a couple of days, I met a girl, job

(12:39):
and a place to stay.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Now, you weren't sober then, I was still partaking a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
I still smoked a little bit of reed. Well yeah, yeah,
but I was listen, this is a really good part
of my story too. It's like, so all that had happened,
and I started going to meetings on the regular aa right,
and I'm like thirty five. I'm running around with dreadlocks
and like just living here, like living like I would
have lived in my early twenties if I wasn't so
completely hooked on drugs. Like so I almost got like

(13:05):
a little bit of time where I was like able
to like have some fun using which I never did,
Like I never had that experience. It was like addiction
was like a job right off the bat back then.
And then all of a sudden, I'm only smoking weed,
and I'm like living on the like living like a
twenty year old or like a teenager. Like right, So

(13:25):
I met a couple people down there, all those things happened.
I started going to AA meetings on the regular. Now
there's no way all these folks didn't know that I
was still using right, But never once did they tell
me in the meetings like don't come back every day.
They were like, see you tomorrow, see it. So I
started to really understand that love that the Rooms was

(13:46):
putting out there, unconditional love.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
It's really interesting you say that, because yeah, I'm gonna
stop you there, only for the simple fact that I've
had such the inverse experiences as the rooms and you
know where it's like, you know, they were really high
and mighty, and the fact that if you came in
here and you were not walking a straight and narrow
do not come back. You were ostracized. But then again,
this wasn't in Florida. This was up here in the

(14:10):
Philadelphia Le High Valley areas where it's a different sort
of demographic. So the year that's really refreshing because I
think what happens is and I know what happens.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
I know I did it.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
I was trying to find salvation in the rooms and
I wasn't because people were turning me away because I
was still using Yeah does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, because well, like the humans always going to show.
It's like, you know what I mean, the human side
was showing, so like you're only you know human as
the next person you run into. So like the idea
that I was at those meetings, right, so I'm running,
like I said, I'm running around with dreadlocks and I'm
going to the meetings. No one's told me not to
come back. So one day, you know, so I had
I was celebrating my anniversaries, my third, fourth, and fifth anniversary. Right,

(14:51):
I'm coming up on my sixth anniversary there, So there
was a dude. They all knew that I was from
Philly area. So the dude made me this. He was
like a little artist, so he made me these computer
anniversary cards. Right, the first one was Alan Iverson number three.
Then it was like Lenny dykster a number four. Then
it was Donovan McNabb number five. And I'm a Sixers fan,

(15:11):
so I was like, he's like, I got a good
one for a sixers one for you. So it's gonna
be doctor J for my sixth anniversary on my card,
and I swear to you it sounds silly, but I
started having like these this guilt, like now I'm celebrating
a sober anniversary, not coming correct, coming to the meetings right.
So I remember going home that day that he told

(15:33):
me that, and I couldn't look in the mirror, like
I'm literally could not look. I could not do it.
And I went back to that meeting and I couldn't
do it. I could not I couldn't bring my head up.
So I went home and something. I shaved my head
to my crew cut, I got all the dreads off.
I went back into the night meeting and they're all
clapping for me. When I came in. They're like something's happening,

(15:55):
and I was like, I don't know. I said, I've
been perpetrating a fraud. I stood up and like shared.
I'm like, I've been perpetrating a fraud. And I'll be
like I've been getting high this whole time, and they're
like no, shit, like start clapping, and then the guy's
like you know what happened. He's like the degree of
honesty changes when you're in the program. He's like, it
usually happens faster when you're not using, right, but you've

(16:17):
been using. It took a little while for it to happen.
And now you can't reconcile sober with abstinate. And that's
like they let me come to my own realization and
self awareness where those people were forcing your hand to
be abstinate because you can't be in recovery right, but
I was in recovery. They let me be in recovery

(16:39):
before they before the abstinence took cold.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
See I'm glad you said this because I want to
ask you this question do you is are you able
to be in recovery if you're not sober?

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well? I mean, what's the sober listen? I mean we
could all say for me, like if you want to
talk about the idea of like it has to be
like if you're going to go to a meeting, there's rules,
all right, So they can't change everything just because I
wanted it to be different. And that's what a lot
of folks want. Now I get it, Like there's other

(17:11):
meetings now and they're starting to come along because of
what we need now. Things are starting to even change
a little bit in the strict rooms of AA and
you know the rooms of NA. So you know, I
was like a person that was like working in the field.
I was working with a lot of folks that were
on methadone, a lot of folks that were on MOUD
and like say, you know suboxone or maybe sublicde or

(17:34):
maybe even you know, vivitron whatever. But like when you're
going to the meetings, a lot of these guys are like,
you can't do any of this. But then you're talking
to people that say you can't be on mental health
medication either. Like I don't know why these people want
to think they're doctors, but if they're going to tell
people that they can't be in the rooms because they're
on MUD, that's their right. I mean, it's a hard

(17:54):
line to follow. But my sponsor was like, knew who
I was, knew what I did for a living. My
sponsor for twelve years, had thirty five years, was old
school and said the times they are a change in.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
It's twenty twenty five. Really, we are not in nineteen
ninety anymore. So what they're doing is they're the ones
that are making it very difficult for people to want
to enter sobriety because now it's like all or nothing.
And I felt that way when I first went totally
because I was on vivitrol and they didn't Back then,

(18:27):
twelve years ago, you weren't supposed to be on viatral either.
You're supposed to be able to do it all and
do or nothing. You weren't supposed to have any type
of you know, there was supposed to be no type
of box zone. No, you know, there's no sublicid back then.
Now it's all so somebody's on sublicade, somebody's getting the
supplicate shot.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, are they considered to be sober? Well? Like, this
is where the problem lies in my opinion, right, because
you're all about freeing yourself and you're also about being
honest and not keeping secrets. Right, so everything's not for everybody.
If you're going to share that stuff with your it's

(19:06):
about motive, right, If your motives are correct, you wouldn't
even know a person's on methadone, right, where a person's
not really doing something, but if they're coming in and
they're on the NOD because they're doing like they're just not.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
There Yet there's a big difference, though, pat between people
who are on methadone to stay high right and people
who are on methadone to get well. That makes sense,
it is. I'm a firm believer in that. I will
get I will get ridiculed by some people. I have
people who come after me because of the comments, and
I make listen.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I'm all about it.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
I'm all about recovery being saving a life. If you're alive,
you're in recovery. However, I need to look at how
long do we give somebody that leadway before we say.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Okay, now, enough's enough.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Now you really got to work your recovery, because if
you're working in your recovery, maybe you wouldn't need that.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Well, lots of those folks are trying to wean themselves
because they don't want to be on it.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
When they're like that, I understand, But how do we
keep people on that for fourteen fifteen, sixteen years? Some
of them have been on methadone for a lifetime for
some of them.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
So I feel bad that they that they feel that
they can't go to meetings.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
And that's what I mean, Like, so, how do we
tell somebody yes, you're doing well. You're not using, you're
not going out, you're not buying this, you're not getting that,
you're not shooting up, you're not doing I'm sorry, you're
not injecting, you know, stealing, you're not stealing, boosting all
that shit. But you're getting a maintenance to keep you
feeling well. So you know, it goes back to like maintenance,

(20:38):
is you know, something that keeps you steady, keeps you going,
keeps you on an even level. Maintenance and stuff like
insulin maintenance and stuff like chemo. That's these are are
totally not the same as maintenance for opiate use disorder
and everything, but it's maintenance.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
So when you have a maintenance, you're in recovery. I
feel no, for sure. I agreed, Like it's I mean,
it's semantics with the with the verbage, right, So I
mean like people are gonna like say what they want
if you want to find a problem with it, not you.
But I'm saying, like if people want to find a
problem with it, they're going to find a problem with it.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
People find a problem with anything, right, you know this
due you out of all people know you were talking earlier,
like one of the things that that made you use
was because you were really not happy with yourself the
way you looked. You know, you didn't like you know,
your weight, you know, like your body shape, you don't
like this, you know, like that your best I get that,
I've been there. I have a huge eating disorder, you know,

(21:31):
and that that that feeds into weird ton of words,
feeds into my my opiate use disorder, you know, because
they're all relative, it's a domino effect. One of them
makes it all fall down, and that mental health part
comes in and we forget about mental health in the rooms,
and I and and I'm really not attacking the rooms,
but since you brought it up, and you are an
old head for sure, in the rooms, they don't talk

(21:53):
about that.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
You don't talk about mental health a lot, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
They don't talk about the underlying roots to what drove
somebody to be sitting in that room. It's a bunch
of people that are sitting around sharing stories or listening
to somebody share their stories that are romanticizing the usage.
So how do we come up with something in twenty
twenty five for everybody to have an even playing field.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, that's a tough question, and it's a it's a
question that could probably use some smarter minds than us, right,
And I'm not looking for an answer. I mean, listen,
if I had my drawers, I would say that you
would start a new meeting that was like, you know,
available for everything, right, Yep, that would be great. Listen.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
We have NA, we have AA, we have CA, we
have SA. We got all these a's out there. I'm
pretty sure they're gonna have a four to twenty A
because you're gonna be able to smoke you know, a
medical cannabis and be in recovery.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Well, I mean the recovery homes right now that do that,
don't they? Thing? So like for me, like being like
a person in recovery, it doesn't really jive with the
idea that I think marijuana is medicine, right, So like,
how do I reconcile those two things? It's it's it's tough,
but it's not tough like it's I've seen the results.
I've been involved in drug court when I was working

(23:19):
in Montgomery County, where even the people in the parole
and the and the probation board have didn't want the
people that came out of jail to get back on
the opiates. So they've given them, let them get their cards,
and I've taken people to doctor's appointments to get their
medication and to get on the clinic. And even the
government is letting it. My problem.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
My problem is I'm a firm believer that cannabis can
be used for getting off of opiate use. Yeah, I
really am a firm believer in that.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Trust me.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
I believe in that whole Harley. However, states like New
Jersey have screwed it because they made it recreational and
takes away the medicinal side of it. So now when
you start making something recreational, it's basically what you we're
up against here in Philly. Now we're never gonna have
a place where people can go and safely consume.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
There are gonna be none of those.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Sites because of the fact that that stigma that comes
with it. Now it's recreational, it's not medicinal. Does that
make sense?

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah? Well, and mean, if you value a trouble if
people want to really use it for what it's like.
I have a friend who uses marijuana for pain, you know,
and there's like, I mean, it's a science there's strains
for sleep, there's the strains for pain. Like I've seen
it work in her life, Like I'm privy to that,

(24:35):
Like I'm buying on a not on a daily basis,
but I see it regularly working. And like the idea that,
like I've you know, seen it with the creams and
then the oil and like the stuff to tease, Like
I've seen all these different things that really works. Older
folks using it, Like the idea that, like, oh, the
weed that I had that my dad found in my

(24:56):
drawer is not the same, you know what I'm saying.
Like the only drug I ever quit on my own
was probably weed because I eventually got so full of anxiety,
like I changed, my body changed, Like it was not
a problem for me to quit it. And I had
a bag of weed from thirteen to thirty five in
my pocket and then all of a sudden, one day

(25:18):
I'm literally standing on the curb board, can't get in
the car, anxiety attack. Whoo, yeah, we got some bad shit. Basically,
the whole reason I did it was not to have anxiety,
and there it is given.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
To be, so it ran its course, you know, And
that's like everything else, everything else I mean, let's face it,
I was you know, two thousand and one when I
had my car accident. I was given tons of pain
pills from my broken shoulder. You know, I'm the one
who made it worse by consuming everything in sight, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
But that was also because of the mental health.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
That was also because everything going on, you know, and
as people with addiction, you know, we have a really
big a roller coaster ride. So you got out and
in thirteen years, you got out, you went, you got
you were married, you said, and you got divorced.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Well we're in the process. Yeah, but yeah, we've been
separated over almost four almost four years. How long are
you married for him? Mask seven years?

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Seven years, so seven four and a half. That's eleven
and a half. So basically it was a year and
a half into your RICO I had. I Actually, so
I'm including that time now, like considered it. I'm still
it's not it's actually it's actually it would be six
nine yeah, nine years right now married.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, So like it's been every year, it's been like
twenty twenty three. This is the year I've getting divorced,
you know what I mean. Like, and let me tell
you something. I got the paperwork right now, and it
needs to be done for both of us, you know
what I mean, Like iowe it to the people in
my life today to do that. Iowa to her actually,
like there's no ill will, there's like I'm appreciate we friends,

(27:00):
you know at one point, and we're going to be
friends by the time this is done too.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
So going through something like that, going through a separation,
going through a part where you have somebody next to
you for all those years and all of a sudden
they're not there anymore, you know, and somebody that's in
recovery and already has you know, triggers going on there.
How does something like that affect you? How did you
overcome that? What did you do to empower yourself to

(27:26):
not spiral?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
You know, it's funny because you would think that like
it could and that don't get me wrong. I mean
I'm not like, you know, patting myself on the back.
It just affected me in the way that it strengthened
me instead of sent me the other way, because I
mean I found full rigs like in the house, like
you know, I mean, it was it was, it was.

(27:49):
It was a tough scene and it's a sickness, you
know what I mean, Like I hadn't I hadn't been
mad in a long time. Like it was like at
first it was like I can't believe it, you know,
how could you do this? But then it got to
the point where like I dig it, like I had
empathy because you know, I know, like I almost got
a glimpse of me in someone else's life that I

(28:11):
spoke of of my old girlfriend when I was twenty
or twenty two or whatever, Like I was like I
always made that comparison of what was going on to
me at this point. It wasn't personal, Like, let's be honest,
I was collateral damage in those decisions. But you live
with someone, it's it's definitely on you like a stink.

(28:32):
And you know a.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Lot you're in communication now, And how does that affect?
And I ask only because I think people really need
to know that interpersonal relationships have a really big part
in our recovery. How does that weigh on you in

(28:53):
your recovery? Like when you have to associate with her.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Well, it's only been recently, Like it's only it was
three full years of her doing what had to be
done for her to get another for her, you know, sadly,
she did what she had to do. She was down
the way, you know, she lived lived to tell about it.
And we didn't speak for three years almost and only
recently in the last couple of months we made contact.

(29:19):
And you know, it was kind of like I mean,
and listen, I'm a person that cares about people like
that was someone that I loved, you know what I
mean for real, So like the idea that it was
really great to hear that, And you know, it wasn't
like when a person reaches back out and finally makes

(29:42):
that contact. Like I was calling the morgue like once
a month during that time, and they were like, Pat,
like you shouldn't be calling the morgue and then recognizing
your voice. That's like, that's what I really was.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
So basically you had no clue in three years where
she was there, nothing and and and I think that's
what I was trying to say, like that weighs on
somebody heavily with or without an addiction. Yeah, but somebody
who has addictive tendencies can really put somebody back there.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
So right there, that was a hell of a test
for you.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Pat, Yeah, and you really overcame and rose to the occasion,
and I'm proud of you for that.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Man, I appreciate that you know what happened. I mean
to be honest with Like I could say, like if
we were having this conversation three years ago, it would
be a completely different conversation, right, But like I'll be honest, Like,
it was never like love hate. It was indifference. Like
that's when I got free, Like when I was able
to like not think about it the first thing in

(30:40):
the morning and the last thing at night. Like I
don't know when that happened. Somewhere along the line. It
wasn't like consuming my thoughts all day long. They can
be sensitized. Hey listen, maybe I mean thank god, because
I'll tell you you can't survive like that. That'll hold
your hostage. Yeah, it did, It did, and it affected

(31:01):
your your mental health and your well being. Dude, I
was three hundred and fifteen pounds.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
You have lost a lot of weight recently. Yeah, you
look great, You look good. Yeah, I mean you're you're
dually you're back to you know, you know, you're you're
our guy. But like you could tell that you took
a turn for happiness. Yeah, that you found some freedom
it freed me, and that's amazing to me at that point.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, you know, like I always thought like I had
this mentality like with addiction, whether it was Dorito's coke
taste whatever, Like I never did want to anything unless
it was the last one. That's the way I live,
like full speed. And then all of a sudden, like
when all that happened, I had to like take a
step back and kind of reevaluate. And like I remember

(31:44):
going to the doctors and a dude been like, yo,
you're pre diabetic. I said, pre diabetic. He goes, it's diabetic,
Like that's what's gonna happen. He's like, if you don't
like right now right, And then I did. I never
really was a person that had like that really like
kind of like and then I say that which is
and I ended up quitting drugs and alcohol. So like,

(32:05):
I'm not giving myself the credit that I was able
to do stuff because it's not all willpower. Obviously, it's
it's a program. Yes, it's God in your life. It's
people that you surround yourself with. It's network, it's friends,
it's family, it's lifestyle change, and it's want two. Like
when you know you want to enough, you will When
you don't, you make excuses, right, So I made excuses

(32:26):
for why I didn't like listen. I was eating Ben
and Jerry's and shit like I was drinking. Like that's
the shit, Like I'm arguing in my head, I'm doing
the same kind of feelings when I was using Without
using alcohol and drugs, I was using food for you,
And that's what happened. You do eventually I was. I
remember coming home and this that one day after that

(32:47):
doctor's appointment I had, and I just was like, I'm
going to kill myself, Like that's what I literally I
remember telling myself, I'm going to fucking kill myself, like
without drugs and alcohol, I'm going to kill myself with this,
and then I just getting on there. I took a
year and I lost almost fifty pounds, and then I
got bariatric surgery. I lost another fifty. You had the surgery, Yeah, yeah, min,

(33:08):
did you have the surgery. It's been almost three years, Yeah,
three years. It'll be three years next month. Are you
glad you did it? Yeah? Yeah. I couldn't get over
that second fifty So you lost how much? All the
other they gave me a plan and lose a pound
a week. So in a year I lost forty nine.
So I was pretty darn close to losing that fifty two.
That's great, And then I kind of plateaued. Then then
I actually got the surgery March twenty ninth, three years ago.

(33:31):
This March twenty not to be three years and you're
maintaining Yeah, I'm actually I got down to two seventeen
was my lowest, and I'm like two twenty two right now.
So you like food, don't you. I was a chef.
I cooked all my life. I had a little lunch
in it in South Philly for really, that's what I did. Yeah,
we're at in South Philly. You know where Shanks is at.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I didn't say, yeah, that's my was my place in
the eighties. Uh on the A on the boulevard.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
It was my place for eight years. Get out of here.
Yeah before Shanks got Yeah, well they did they have
the original place then in bellavist at the nine. Yes, yes,
the parents had it village and then the sun before
he passed away, God blessed the Shanks. Yeah. Then he opens,
Yeah is such good food. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
So that's so you had a little place, a little
breakfast place, a little lunch place.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
It was Pat Dooley's on the Donald, Delaware. Yeah, how
long did you do that? For almost eight years? Yeah?
It was like I mean I was on the dead tour.
Literally no, not like make stories sound better. I was
in Indiana and I had to come back. My dad
was an inchoir driver and Mary who used to own
it Mary's Lunch for thirty years. They were stupid ors.
He got hurt the husband, so she needed someone to

(34:38):
help out. I helped out. So my dad was like,
you gotta do something. So I came back from Indiana whatever, like,
dropped off in Birkenstocks, still dosed out of my brain
to work there. And I loved it. And then so
we took some money that I had and we she left,
let me take over to mortgage and I paid her
off for seven years. I mean we had two poker

(34:58):
machines in there, sold weed. I took the street number
my friend used to loan money. I don't know if
I sold a sandwich for like a year. So there
goes to me asking.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Especially was the poker machines and paying them out or
taking the money from them, And you.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Know, a nineteen year old kid with a drug problem.
Having a bunch of money in his pocket every day
got to be a problem. I ended up smoking the
whole restaurant away. I robbed myself and followed a police report.
I mean, the statute of limitations has already passed. I'll
tell you that right now. I'll look right at the camera. Though. No, yeah,

(35:34):
it was.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
It was a good What is the statue of limitations
before I start to reveal, okay, a fraud?

Speaker 2 (35:39):
You mean fraud? Yeah? Yeah, I mean there's only like
I think, like me sexual things or like I'm talking yeah,
but I'm saying like, I don't think there's any statute
of like like like yeah, like potentially if somebody would
have stole their own car and reported and missing.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Allegedly allegedly, yeah yeah, yeah, I think you're good. Allegedly
it wasn't my car, so it was, you know, nothing
to do. I was just asking a question. I love
what I could ask my ask my friends and shit
like this. This is great and they have answers for him.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah. Yeah, it was good though. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
So all this stuff, I mean, you had so much
happening here and now all of a sudden, your life
takes a pivot. You know, your your wife disappears on
you for a few years, did you You're sort of
in a spiral again in a different way. Your life
sort of does another pivot, another one eighty and you
switch gears.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
What did you do well? To be honest with you,
I was still cooking. What happens? I stayed at that
Salvation Army ended up becoming the supervisor for the for
the kitchen. Which one was that? The one in Roxborough? Really?
I lived there two years. I had my own big
apartment inside. Then I ended up moving to a little
recovery house with a bunch of guys, then a place
by with two guys, then a place by myself, and

(36:54):
then I actually met my wife there years before. We
didn't hook up or anything there.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
We were Were you there during the whole Bobby Colemans
was Bob around then?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah? Yeah, Bobby was there. Yeah, Bob, Bob Yeah, Bob. Yeah,
Bob was came through when I was the food service supervisor.
Then he ended up working there for a while before
he left. Yeah. Yeah, I had one of my roommates
was there probably around the same time too. Yeah, he's
no longer with us. He had passive an overdose.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
But Matt his name is a lot of people I
know came from there. So you were there, you were cooking,
you were Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
So what happened was I ended up years later my
dad had passed away, and then I reached out to
my wife, was just my friend at the time, and
we you know, we got together or whatever. And then
she had told me in the next year or two,
she's like, you need to go and get your CRS.
You would be really good at this job, which is
this is a certified recovery Specialist, which is you know,

(37:46):
like a recovery coach or a peer specialist whatever, you
work with people. So I got a chance to get
that credential through the state and then I ended up
working for pro Act. Originally, so me, Raquel, David Right, Jackson,
a couple friends of mine, we all met, I mean
I knew them already, but we all had worked at
pro Act. And then I ended up becoming on the

(38:07):
first warm handoff team through Temple Episcopal Hospital where we
used to meet with people from the overdose. That was
my first job in the field. So really yeah, So
I was over Episcopal working with when overdoses would come
in we would meet with them. We'd be like used
car salesman for recovery, because you'd have a couple of
minutes while the dark hands wearing off after the overdose,

(38:28):
trying to convince them to leave tomorrow or maybe if
you want to get some help, we have some opportunity.
Then from there I moved over to work in Montgomery
County do a mobile support for my friend Tara Calderbank,
who was like one of my mentors. She's a really
good friend of mine. She ended up running a program
for pro Act in Montgomery County and that's where I
really made my chops. A mobile unit. Yeah, so you're

(38:50):
out in the field, yeah every day. Yeah, I was
into prison. I was in Montgomery County Prison. I worked
with Drug Court. I used to do the groups with
Drug Court. I was one of the only I was
probably the only person on the team that didn't have
felony wrap. So anybody that got like reoffended and had
to go into jail, I was in jail two days
a week in the prison, so they I would have

(39:11):
a caseload of all people that was in jail that
we're in jail.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
So you became a certified recovery specialist. Yeah, you go
back to work in the field. So you totally took
that negative and turned it into a positive.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's been a true blessing because what happened was now
like back then, like we're like underresourced, underutilized, and underpaid
right people in this field. Right now, I have a
job where I'm making a decent living and I have
a purpose. Like my girlfriend at this point right now
tells me every day you are on a mission. You

(39:45):
have a purpose, you have a reason for you know,
doing these things that you do. And that's what it is.
It's the idea that you know, these things that were
seemingly destroyed my life that you rebounded from there are
make me useful today.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Is it amazing how when you find a purpose, everything
else sort of just drifts away.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Nothing else really.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Matters because that purpose takes over. You take that pain,
you turn into a purpose and wow.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
You know, I'm doing okay financially, Like I said, it's
that's I mean, listen, and I think we already have
a contract, so I can automatically say that I would
do this job for free, you know what I mean, Like,
let's be honest without reaching stuff the kind of stuff
we do, helping people down the way, working with folks
doing like when I had the Kensington Cares with Danny

(40:39):
and then we were working at who Can We Help?
Like these are the kind of things we do for free.
But like my job is like something. Listen, no one
wants to wake up every day and go to work.
But I've never once woke up and be like, damn,
I gotta go to work. You know what I mean. Never,
And I'm not saying that I mean to be honest.
I mean, listen, you know you're tired, whatever, But like

(40:59):
never one Like when I worked other jobs, man, I
didn't want to go to work. Like I know that
I have a group of people that have a common
interest to help folks, that are all on the same page.
Like we have a job where I work now camp
at Penn for the set of addiction medicine and policies,
like where I work now for Nicole O'Donnell and Jazz

(41:19):
and like Gilly. Look, these are like people that are
like their hearts are in this. We have such an
awesome team and like we have like a big conference
room where we all sit around. There's cubicles, there's offices,
but you have to push people out of the room
where we're all sitting on top of each other trying
to help each other get the next thing done, because
these people all care about the people that we serve.

(41:40):
Like there's no ego, there's none of this, there's none
of that. It's all about how can we help. Like
a person's on the PDMP and the other person's checking
the hospital, is checking the board at the DED, like
all these things just try to get the person because
that windows so small. If a person's like going through
withdrawal and it takes a little too long, they might

(42:01):
decide that today's not today, and to go out might
be to die, you know. Like like I have some
friends that have taken chances on me that I will
spend the rest of my life trying to repay for
taking that chance on me. You know, like Nicole and
Tara and all the folks I work with at pen
now doctor Jean Marie, Like all these people are been
like there for me, and like, you know, it's like

(42:22):
nepotism to get the opportunity, but like they're not going
to keep me around if I don't do my work.
And like the idea that like being having that motivation
to work and to prove them right every day for
taking a chance on me like that, Like it fires
me up. Look you're there hell on almost three.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Years, four years now, four years because I remember the
open house, Yeah, yes, yeah, that was great.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yeah, because camp started the warm line and all that stuff,
and you actually came to visit it, and you come
to visit at Are when I was still a proact
to the other place I'm all over to. Yeah, that
was right, and then that was my that's another game.
I had an opportunity to do the homeless that reach
when they had that partnership with Septa, and you know,
we were on the l every day with me and

(43:04):
Tyr were doing that job and a couple other friends, Brian.
You know, it was really really good, and you know
it's just you know and then like the way life
just kind of like unfolds in front of you with
the new opportunities, you know, like I have different people
in my life that like, you know, utilize you like
and like you were saying my name Duley, like you know,
like you like you go to meetings, You're like, oh

(43:25):
it's pat whatever, Like my name's Dooley. People have called
me that all the time. I want that I'm anonymous
with other people's sobriety. I'm not anonymous with mine. I
want people to say, like, I'm I'm a facebooker that
puts my phone number. But I want someone to say, hey,
I'll reach out, you know what I mean. No one's
called me to like act goofy on the phone, but
people have called me up to like reach out and

(43:47):
try to get some help.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know, it's twenty twenty five. This anonymous stuff has
to stop a little bit, you know. I think, you know,
there was a world of anonymous back in the day,
because you know, there was a stigma against it.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
There was such a stigma.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
And people were losing jobs, people were losing whatever over it.
Their lives were imploding when they found out that they,
you know, were in sourpriety. Can you believe that you
believed people's lives were imploding because they were trying to
do the right thing. But nowadays, I think recovering out
loud has become the way of the world. I think
people become more proud of it. People are talking out
loud about it. People are telling you, I'm at two years,

(44:21):
I'm at twelve years, I'm at twenty years because you
should be proud of that.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
That's an accomplishment.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
You don't ever, I mean, you hear people say, oh,
I went out last night, we had ten shots.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Well good for you, Johnny. You know we had ten
years sobriety here, you know. So so like think of this,
like so it's you know about when people come into
your life. Like I was thinking, like, so, like if
I run into someone today, right that didn't really know
me back then, I'm like, say, health wise or weight
wise or recovery wise. If I run into someone today

(44:52):
to a whole group of people, I'm just a dude
that still needs to lose about fifty pounds, right. But
a person that knew me when I was three hundred
and fifteen p I'm just like, wow, you look unbelievable.
So a person that knows me when I was drinking,
I'm a beacon of hope to them. A person that
sees me now that only know me sober, they see

(45:12):
me in different light, right, So, like they see me
as a person. It's like if I have a bad day,
my bad day now compared to like my bad days before. Man,
I'm like, you know, it's like whistle and zippity dude.
I you know, it's like my worst day today. I
know it's a cliche, but like that worst day today

(45:32):
does not compare it to like my best day back then. Oh,
I know, you know what I mean. And then you know,
and you think about the things like and like you
don't need the external validation. I don't need like these things,
but they're they're good to see and they're good to hear.
Like it's awesome because we're human. We like to do that.
We like that pad on the back. But like I mean,
my life today is like I got a beautiful woman

(45:56):
in my life, like an awesome friend, you know, person
in my life that builds me up and like continues
to like grow at me. And like so like that's
not because I'm a bad guy. That's because I'm a
good guy. Like we still have that problem in our
head where we like I don't see myself in that
light all the time. And then you have someone that

(46:17):
like she's a mirror. She gets to be a mirror
and reflects that to me. Like and I could be
that for other people that I come across, you know,
like somebody might forget that like I have people that
reach out to me all the time on the down mo,
like on Facebook or Messenger or whatever that are like struggling,
you know what I mean. And I'm not just gonna
blow smoke up their asks. I'm gonna tell them the truth.
But I've learned a way to tell them the truth

(46:41):
without being mean or harm Like, you know, it's not
like the does my ass look fat in this stress
kind of honesty. It's not that, you know what I mean,
It's like, yo, dude, you owe it to yourself, Like
no one deserves our love, empathy and compassion more than us.
You know. When we do that, and when we nurture
ourselves and feed ourselves and are ourselves with that stuff,

(47:01):
like we become the best versions of ourselves for everybody
around us, and we owe that like everybody's like you know,
like people walk around, I don't care what anybody thinks,
you know, That's all we care about is what everybody
else thinks. Right, So, like the idea that I don't
care what anybody else thinks, you should, because what is
a reflection of the life you're living? Like, I don't
live and die by what other people say. But like

(47:23):
they're a pretty good road mark and or whatever that
word is a good landmark of the kind of life
we're living. So like when people are coming to you
for advice, and like becoming a good listener, like all
these things that like I always had inside of me
that I never utilized working in recovery, like motivational interviewing,
and like all these things, all these little tricks they

(47:45):
teach you, they're not tricks. They're being good listeners. They're
being compassionate, they're being empathetic, they're being real. They're being
a person that like cares about other people. And like,
so did the world line up, Like this job lined
up with who I am? That's why it's I'm not
working a day in my life. That's why enough money

(48:07):
I'm making no matter what. Like all these things that
like seem to like not be a problem that were
problems before, Like I found a problem for every solution before. Dude,
Like I don't I don't have that today like that.
It doesn't, it doesn't. I don't live like that. You're
not your own worst anymoy anymore? No, No, No, it's
you know this everything is salvageable, you know what I mean?

(48:30):
And like, yeah, that's that. We're just gonna harken back
real quick to the whole idea of what you were
talking about with like the rooms, and like the idea
that like salvaging like that that kind of situation, Like
I have that, and like I don't need to like
have the validation of people in the rooms, even though
I care about that, but like the idea that I

(48:53):
can live that way and still be there for other
people and still give them the opportunity to have the
same success I've had, you know, and like I want
to do those things, but like sometimes we don't know
how right. We don't know, and we're figuring it out
as we go along. So the idea that, like the
lessons we're learning, like the idea that like what I

(49:14):
was trying to say was stumbling over my words, but
what I was saying was that the idea that we
need to like maybe possibly find a new kind of
meeting and a new kind of norm because the problem
is a person that drinks, Like if I drank again today,
I would be miserable and I would probably die a
couple of years too young because I would But like
when I go out after being a heroin at it.

(49:36):
I'm not going to go back out and drink. I'm
going to go back out and use. And with the
way things are today, people aren't getting a second chance.
That's why the problem in the rooms today is different
than it was in like the eighties and nineties. It's
about keeping people alive.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
And it's funny to say that because people nowadays are
always like, you know, well, when did you stop drinking?
I'm like the man I started shooting heroin because who
wants to drink when you're on heroin?

Speaker 2 (50:00):
A waste? That exactly nothing sure in my alcohol.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
I was like really, I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's minor league.
But and you hit the nail on the head there.
I mean, so you know, you talk about, you know,
our work. What was your worst day using ever?

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Can you pinpoint one?

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Was there one day that it was just total hell
for you that you're like, oh, I never want to
relive that day again.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Well, I remember being in this is so I was
in Florida and I had lost my job and like
I knew that it was time. I knew it was
the jig was up, Like I was done, Like I
was done. So I remember I worked at this little restaurant,
and this lady was like really super nice to me.
She loved me. She called me her son and all

(50:41):
this stuff. She was the boss. And I remember I
was looking out the window and like I was in
Fort Lauderdale and there was these there's a fishing pier
that I worked on, cooking at the fishing pier right Pompino. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Commercial Boulevard. I used to live in Sunrise.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Oh so you know, because we all go to Florida
cover where a ruba was at.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
I used to eat it a rube every Sunday. I'm
gonna be there. That's when I had my I'm going
there this weekend.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
It's beautiful. I worked right there at Anglan It's fishing pier.
I know it very Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
I ran.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
I ran a school on Commercial and then I lived
out in Sunrise by the mall right.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Off of Commercial right there. Where'd you live Bogan Vilia
right off of Commercial there right there. I mean I
can see the water from my house night. Yeah. So
I was sitting there and I'm working and it's like
five of nine or whatever, and I got to make
my daily lie to go to run the the liquor
store to come up with my break time. And now
I run over to the liquor store real quick. It's

(51:40):
five after nine, and the dude's not there. And then
I'm giving him a bag of ship because he's late
and and now, and I got the balls to ask
for the bottle on the eye, right, because I don't
have the money. So I come back. I pour it
in my glass and I'm drinking and I'm looking out
the window now where there's fishing piers. There's like those
big mounds on the side. They're holes. Dudes were living

(52:00):
in there. So I'm like holding my drink. These dudes
climb out like moles thirty looking up at the window.
I'm in there. My hand is shaking, right, I'm looking
down at the dude and I'm looking up at him,
and I'm thinking, how pathetic is that dude? Right? And
then no more than fifty days later, sixty days later,

(52:24):
I'm looking up from the hole where this dude was.
I was sleeping in there because I got thrown out,
I lost the job. And I'm looking up at the
dude in the window standing there looking down at me
like I was the dude and he's at my job.
The guy that took my job. I was in the
hole looking up at the dude that took my job.
That was the day. And then I had to go

(52:45):
to the keys because friends came down to visit, and
I hitchhiked down to the keys and I remember calling
my dad and I'm like, I'm having a nervous breakdown.
This was two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
that's when I lived there. We were there the same time.
I probably man. I was in Broward County lock up there.
That wasn't fun at all, not at all. And I

(53:08):
was there.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
I got I got locked up on a Friday night
and the bail bondsman screwed up and I didn't get
out until Sunday.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Well, you're lucky Monday wasn't a holiday or something. I'm
lucky that.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah, I'm really lucky on a lot of stuff. But
the worst place to be locked up is Broward.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
I hated that.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Really, it was not good. So you survived it, though.
It was a lesson for you when you learned it.
And you know what I love about you, Pat is that.
And I don't even call you Pat next time I
do that. Such fine, I really say, Pat. The hell
is that dually. I don't ever think I ever say, Pat,
Oh my gosh. One thing I love about you is,
like I said at the beginning, with a tongue in cheek,

(53:46):
like flies on horseshit, I say that because you have
such a reach of friends and acquaintances and people that
you keep in your circle, that you'll have lunch with,
you'll meet for dinner, you'll meet for a show.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
You are constantly on the go and making those connections.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Was that the way you were in the early stages
of your addiction or was this something that when you
went into recover You're like, I want to just be
a people person.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Nah, I've always been that kind of guy. I mean,
in the throes addiction, it was like it's my world
got real small, you know what I mean obviously, because
but we think that we have a whole big world.
But I've always been yeah, Like I mean, I remember
my report card. We were laughing. I was actually laughing
about this not long ago where it says Pat Commandeer's

(54:36):
conversation Pat Commandeers the classroom, Like, I just I mean,
it was a a was that a nice way to say?
You talk too much? Right? But I see that My
teacher later on used to say you hold court, which
in a bad way was then, but now it's proved
to be something beneficial because I really feel that I

(54:56):
get a chance to be, like, I don't know, a conduit,
you know what I mean, Like, Nah, it's all the
people together, you know. I want to be a diplomat.
I want to be that kind of connection. We're connectors.
But I love that. I love what we do. It's
the biggest compliment that someone could pay me.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Listen, I love when people people tell me where I'm
a connector because it's really what I get off on.
It's bringing that human connection to having people share their
story and being a voice for who they are, what
they believe in, because your story will affect somebody else,
and it'll affect them in a positive way because they
see where you're at. So never be ashamed of that,
and never be ashamed of being that conduit. You have

(55:33):
such a great attitude towards everything, even with what you've
gone through and even what you still go through. I mean,
we all have our shit each and every day. Yeah,
but you wake up, like you said, and you're in
a positive mood, and you get to it and You're
always there and you're on point, and.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I love that about you.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
And I really hope some people can just take a
little bit of who Pat Duli is.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
And become that for themselves, because that would be amazing. Well,
I appreciate that. Man. It's just been a real it's
been a great journey. And like the idea that, you know,
I really think that, and like I said, it might
be a cliche or whatever, but I really think that
the best part of the journey is ahead. You know,
I really believe that, like God is like really you know,

(56:17):
whatever God is to whoever. Like I'm I'm a I'm
a Catholic, so I'm a reformed Catholic. Like all this
are right. The idea that like whatever it is is
like continuing to have self helped me have self awareness,
to have awakenings, and to have like putting people in
my life at the right times, you know what I mean,

(56:39):
like like the people that are in my life today,
like listen, I'm blessed. And I really believe that. And
you know, like I said, I like I don't know, man,
like it's an embarrassment of riches and and and and
it I felt like that I remember going into that
Salvation Army in my ID. Now, I just I walked

(56:59):
like all that day, like five hours to go from
like thirty Street station over to Rockxboro. I was like
this and my ID and like everybody looked like they
were the most miserable people in the world. And I'm like.
The lady that took my picture was like, dude, you're
in rehab. What do you have to be so happy
about it. I'm like, this is saving my life. I'm

(57:20):
in rehab. Like That's how I felt. And I haven't
stopped smiling since.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Well, if you had, if you had to give somebody
a quick synopsis or cliff notes of you know, giving
somebody a little bit of words and encouragement for somebody
who's still out there. There are so many people still
lost out there that we deal with. And I use
the word loss because it is a lot you're lost.
If we weren't lost, we would never have had to
be found in recovery, you know. So there are people

(57:47):
that are lost out there that are struggling. They're trying
to keep their heads above water, they're trying to stay alive.
You know, you deal with this. You're on the front
lines as well, but for those that aren't out there,
that you don't come in contact with, what are some
words of advice you could get to somebody who's really
struggling and going through it and looking for some salvation.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
I don't know, man, it's tough because everything is so individualized. Like,
you know, the idea that the best advice I can
give is when I get a chance to talk to someone,
I listen, right, Like I don't have the answers. What
I need them to know is what matters to them
matters to me. And like, if I can be fully

(58:29):
present for them at that moment, you know, I want
to be that mirror for you, Like I know that
if I hold the mirror up in that condition, they're
not liking what they see, right, it's her piece. And
then listen, don't discount the power of a hug man.
You know a lot of people looking someone in the
eye and treating them with some dignity, maybe even a

(58:51):
hand on the shoulder or a hug. People are dirty,
they're out there, they're own housed. When was the last
time someone told them they love them? Doesn't happen often? No, Like,
that's what I do, That's how I get through to people.
Is because I don't say that stuff just to say
it because they want to hear it. I say it
because I mean it, and they can't. You can't fake

(59:12):
that phone. People know if I'm being real, And that's
the connection I have with people because I do mean it,
like that's the reality of the situation. And I know
I could say, Oh, that was me so many years ago,
that's me today. I'm one bad move away from being that.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
We all are brother right, we all are And I
love it. That sums it up perfectly, and I think
people need to know that. Like listening is so critical,
you know, I always say, show.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Up, listen, try to laugh. The rest will fall in place.
So if somebody's looking for help, you're out there. You're
over at Penn.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
You're at Pen Camp, which is over at Penn Presby right,
there's a warm line if they need some assistance. Pat
Dooley is out there. He's available, you know, even outside
of Penn. He is somebody you can search out. You'll
know he's out there if you need to find him.
He is out there on social media. Get in touch
with me. If you can't find Pat Duley, we'll connect

(01:00:06):
you with him. He is somebody you should.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Need to know. Pat.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
I would love to have you come back, because an
hour is never really fill layers back, especially with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
With your story. Brother.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
But this to me right here, to be able to
celebrate your thirteen years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Leapier too, sick. My anniversary is old, leaper. I don't
get a chance to celebrate every year, so I have
to celebrate on March first, so literally, my anniversary twelve,
I mean two twenty nine twelve, So so really you
only got like four four years, got a chance to
celebrate for you? You suck.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
I know I'm getting there, Duley. I love you, man,
I enjoy my time with you. I'm so fortunate to
have you in my friend circle. You know, I can't
wait till we get to another you know show again. Yes,
we need to do that. We need to get old
man malloy. And you know we'll see if Frank can
get out past you know eight, who'll get there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
He's got more energy than I have.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
That man's a firecrack. Yeah sure, yeah, some really good people.
You are an amazing man. I appreciate some great stuff.
Thank you for your inspiration, thank you for being here
and everybody, Pat Dooley thirteen years. The man's incredible. There's
so many stories to go along with it. Check him out.
Thank you so much for joining me today. Remember whatever

(01:01:17):
is your stand for, be a voice. This is Brick
Carpenter and Dusulu Media. Be well and have a great
rest of your day.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Thanks. I appreciate you man,