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August 27, 2025 • 62 mins
In this episode of Be A Voice, we sit down with Carla Sofronski, Director of the Pennsylvania Harm Reduction Network, to talk about the life-saving work being done to combat the overdose crisis, support people who use drugs, and dismantle stigma. Carla shares the mission behind PAHRN, the power of harm reduction in building healthier communities, and the urgent policy changes needed to protect our most vulnerable neighbors. This powerful conversation shines a light on compassion, advocacy, and the importance of meeting people where they are. If you care about public health, social justice, and making a real difference, this episode is for you.
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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome to be a voice. I'm Brick Carpenter of the
USULA Media. Thanks for joining me today. I'm kicking off
this month of August with Overdose Awareness Month. As we
are into what is known as International Overdose Awareness Month,
and we talk about those that we have lost, those
that we are not fortunate to have with us, and

(00:42):
trying to do what we can for those that are
still with us and bring them with us and make
sure that we don't lose them along the way. So
I thought, what better person to bring in and talk
about what's going on out there, ranging from what's happening
on the streets, so, what's happening with the drug supply, so,
what's happening with numbers? To the person that really has
her figure on the pulse of it all. I'm bringing

(01:03):
in today Carla Sefranski, who is my good friend and
executive director of the Philadelphia I mean the Philadelphia the
Pennsylvania Harm Reduction Network. See that I messed that up
right away for your Carla. But you know why, because
when we think about it, people automatically assume when we
talk about, you know, opioids usage and all the epidemic
and the crisis, people focus on Philadelphia and they forget

(01:26):
that pa is a is a very large state. Yeah,
and our counties in Pennsylvania are affected on a greater
per capita than sometimes Philadelphia, absolutely, and I people think
people forget that. So we are so focused on saying
Philly all the time. So I say Philly. But you
are the executive director of the Pennsylvania harm Reduction Network.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Right, that is correct.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
That is correct. But you're a little bit You're a
lot more than that. You're also a person in long
time recovery. You're a person that's been around these streets
here in Philly and around the people in the area
for how many years now, Oh, I.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Don't know, twenty something years, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
And that's and that's with a good head on my shoulders,
you know, with a not so good head on my shoulders.
It's another probably fifteen years. So I've been around for
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Thanks for making me feel old.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Anytime you need to boost you, let me know he
pick you up. I can do that. You look good today.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
You're welcome natural today. But you know, you know, I
know who you are. And you were on the show
before with Jen Scheinfeld and we were talking about some
of the numbers out there then and a lot of
the stuff that was happening. We were talking about the
supply back then when it was changing from the trank
and zylazine to the met as I call it. Yeah, yes,

(02:45):
And you know that was months ago, you know, and
here we sit in August, and what's going on out
there now?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah? So, oh god, there's so much going on.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
So you know, as a whole, right, like as we
look at things as a whole throughout the state of Pennsylvania.
The good news is is that we are seeing a
large decrease in overdose deaths, right. So, and I can
happily say that I attribute that to making the lock

(03:18):
zone ready available to all persons, right, a low barrier threshold,
supporting people in harm reduction practices, and really educating people
that use drugs. The other piece to it is is
our illicit drug supply, right And so you know, at

(03:38):
a time where we saw this like really large shoot
up peak of ventanyl that came into our supply less
than ten years.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Ago, twenty fourteen fifteen. That was on the peak of
me going out. I always tell people my five overdoses,
I do not believe we're attributed to heroin, It was
ventanyl because I knew what I was doing, you know.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
And the same thing, you know, you know, I could
speak the same for my late fiance passed away, you know,
almost five years ago, where he did not think that
he was picking up a bag of fetan al, right,
like at that time. People who used drugs have very
limited knowledge and still do to what is in their
current supply. And the truth is is that it's quickly evolving, right,

(04:20):
And we are lucky if we can catch a sample
of what is even happening in a very large picture,
a snapshot, right. So, and the way that we are
able to do that is through you know, tools like
drug checking and technologies like drug checking that we did
not have in the past. We did not have that

(04:41):
in the twenty fourteen twenty fifteen time that you just
talked about.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
No, we're lucky. We had narcan on the streets. The
cops weren't even carrying it back then, right, they don't
carry it now.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
So a lot has changed, right, So, a lot has changed.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
So we saw a very large increase in deaths throughout
that ten year period. In twenty three we had the
highest the high I think we were at almost fifty
seven hundred people died.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
In the state of Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
What year is that, twenty twenty three, and said, right,
so only two years ago, right, And I think that
we're now at forty seven hundred. So, like I said,
a snapshot of a very large picture, right, So twenty
percent we're doing a little bit better. But the truth

(05:28):
is is that that also accounts only for.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
White populations.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
We've saw a fifty percent increase in black and brown
communities in the past two years. So as one goes down,
another one goes up. New set of problems, new set
of logistics, new set of folks that we need to
look at, you know, we evaluate how come we're not
doing outreach to them, and all the fun things that
go with that.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
So a lot of this is bittersweet, you know.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
I'm happy to say, yes, it's great we have a
decrease because of all the harmoned up measures that we've
taken in the drug supply kind of switching. But it's
horrific to also say forty seven hundred people died in
the state of Pennsylvania last year.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
I mean that's two people.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
I think every two hours, somebody dies so that's a lot.
That's a lot, and and you know, every family's touched
from it. We're our children are affected, and so on
and so forth.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
And we're in a month now where.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
You know, people are going to be memoralizing their loved ones.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
And you know, I want to, I want to I
want to interject there when we talk about this month,
we talk about August, when we talk about overdose awareness,
and you know, we talk about fighting the stigma and
you know, trying to break that stigma, and you know,
you've been doing it for years. I've been doing it
for years. All of our friends and colleagues, and you know,
half the you know, half the people in recovery that
are you know, fighting on the harm reduction side have

(06:57):
been doing it for years. You know, it's one month,
it's being a voice. And you know what I want
to know is why does it take us to have
these one months to be that voice instead of continuations
throughout the year, not just with overdose we do with everything,
we make one month and that's it. Let's you know,

(07:19):
let's you know, propagandize it for one month. Let's throw
it out there in your face, and let's forget about it.
Until next August, you know, and I think a lot
of times that's really what happens. You know, you can't
really ramp it up because you're waiting till August. But
I think I'm getting at like, why why is it
cut to that? Is that part of our stigma still

(07:40):
is that part of you know, the people out there
that are are afraid to speak up the families. I mean,
you have your finger on the pulse more with the
families in that aspect than I do.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
You know what a great question and thought provoking question,
because the truth is that grief doesn't wait till August.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Right, this is trauma we're talking about. This is destroying lives.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, we're fucked up out here.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Oh yeah, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
And we are all in a lot of pain, and
that pain does not go away.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I think that some of it is shame.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
I think that parents place a lot of guilt on
themselves of the kutahs. And the truth is is like, really,
it's like one day, it's August thirty first, right, like
so where we.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
But it's an inconvenience for people because it's a Sunday
this year, so they got to do it on a
Tuesday or Thursday.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Right, we got to be flexible.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Exactly, you know. And and you said the word, you said, shame.
It's the shame. And these families and these parents and
these siblings and these spouses and significant others, they carry
this shame all year long and then they have to
wait till August to be able to like speak about it.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
And the truth is that they carried the shame when
loved ones were inactive addiction. Right, there was a huge
subset of shame that went with that. Parents carry a
lot of guilt.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
You know. I carry guilt, you know, for for Ted,
you know, for my sister. What could I have done better?

Speaker 3 (09:15):
I know it's not about me, right, but these are
feelings and emotions that are valid and also real.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
And why isn't it about you? Though you were there,
you were there every step of the way with Ted.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think to make myself the perspective that I'm thinking
about is I am not the spiritual advisor in God
Almighty and I could not prevent what had happened.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Had so wait, you can't change somebody's mind.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
If they're going to use on Tuesdays between the hours
of a Yeah, you know, but yeah, but you know
what I'm getting out there, We cannot control others.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
We can't, so we carry the shame. We carry this
guilt ourselves, people in recovery already for what we've done
and the penance that we try to pay back to
you know, society, to our families and our friends. But
our families carry this shame and this guilt, and I
think it's more sometimes an embarrassment, yes, and they don't
speak up on it, and it destroys them more than

(10:18):
it destroys the person in addiction.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
My dad died two years after my sister died.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
He just.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Could not get over the fact that he buried his
child and that he was supposed to go first.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like it just he could not get over it.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
You know, I speak to parents all the time, delivering
the messages that somebody has passed away to an unexpected
overdose or you know, you know, is is heartbreaking and
it's to watch the shock that takes place.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Is hard to rebound from that.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean, it really is.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
And I think that parents specifically, you know, really, like
you just said, hold on to that. You know, I
was just on a call before I was gonna call
my way here on a zoom meeting with some mothers,
and they had said, we wonder how many mothers are

(11:36):
out there who end up having cancer or some other
diseases or autoimmune deficiencies or something like that due to
the amount of stress that has taken over their body
physically and mentally. And then the amount of families that
are also then dealing with raising children, right, grandparents seventy

(12:01):
years old who were in retirement, who can no longer
afford to be in retirement, so they have to go
back to work.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
They're raising three year.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Olds, you know, and the stress and the grief, and
they have to stay strong because I know as a parent,
when you lose somebody, you know, you have to stay
strong for the child, right, and you don't want to
cry in front of you your child and children grieve
at a different time.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
It's a much later, later time period, right.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
So as soon as you think that you have a
handle on the grief where you're like, all right, I
could be the strong one, now, guess what, now your
kid's going through it and it's all over again.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
And so we were just.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Talking about we wonder how many people are so sick
from the elements of stress that this is done well.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
And you know, I I look at people, and when
I meet somebody for the first time and they tell
me that they have a child that is either in
recovery or still out there on the streets or has passed,
and I look at that person's face and I look
at their composure, and I say to myself, that's a
stereotypic parent of a child. They look like they haven't

(13:08):
slept in twenty years. They look like they haven't done
anything for themselves, and it takes a toll, and we
forget about this. We forget we we concentrate and focus
so much of our time on the individual that's you know,
in active addiction or in mental health. We forget about
people like yourself, Carla, that have to deal with this

(13:29):
experience on the other side, because you did with your sister,
with Teddy, you know, with everybody else that you deal with,
and we forget about that.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
They're the lost voices.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
They really are, you know, these children are the lost voices.
You know, I say it over and over again. My
daughter is fifteen. You know, she created a dead dad
club because all of her friends their fathers are dead
and there was no peer support. They create their own
peer support at school because there was no resources.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Your daughter did that, Yeah, just.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Wanted a place to talk, to grieve, to say like, oh,
this is what comes next, especially the year of the
first that's what they call it, you know, the first Christmas,
the first Easter, the first birthday that you're going to have,
the first birthday of the dead loved one, you know,
and like supporting each other through that. There's very limited
resources for children, and they are angry.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
These kids are angry.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
They don't know typically how to regulate their emotions, you know.
And then you're trying to explain to children who are
angry and miss their parents that, you know, if they
act out and can't regulate their emotions, there's most likely
these types of consequences that could possibly happen.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
And it's like the last.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Thing that you want to say, but like I have
to tell my daughter, you know, Rihanna, you need to
be mindful and the choices that you make. You're a
teenager now, you know, and you need to be responsible.
And if you're feeling some type of way, we need
to talk about it. You can't go use substances to
escape because our systems are are our acem criteria requirements. Right,

(15:11):
are aces that we developed shows that you are a
higher risk of developing a substance use disorder.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
And we'll break it down to explain when it because
people hear that.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, so it's called the childhood? What is it? The child?
I hate acronyms. I'm sorry, I'm using.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Don't don't because I but it refers to the child reverse.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
And so what it is is that it's a scale.
It's a tool.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
It's a tool that we use, social workers use, hospitals,
use adolescent providers, use doctors use where it's a range
of questions and then so it talks about social determines
of health, right, and and that's what we're doing. And
so we're basing this rating on social determent of health.

(16:00):
So for example, you know, did you grow up in
a two parent household?

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Right?

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Did you grow up with food insecurities? You know?

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Does substance use disorder run in your family? How many
one parent?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Two parents? Mental health run in your family? One parents?
You must do you have housing insecurity?

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Right?

Speaker 2 (16:22):
So then everything equals l to a score and then
it tells you.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
On a large scale what the risk is for somebody
a teenager, an adolescent, even sometimes younger than ten years old.
Where they fall on the scale determines, you know, how
at risk they are, so at risk youth.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
And that's important tool to use because we don't we
don't identify it. I mean, we don't identify things as young.
We're usually telling people get over it, you know, suck
it up, it'll be it'll be fine. And I think
that that's that's gone, that that whole tough love shit
is gone. That was gone with us. You know, it
didn't even work with us.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I mean, yeah, you know, listen, being a parent it's
fucking hard, man, and it is really difficult. And being
a single parent is even harder. And you know, playing
the role of a supportive mother, and it also a

(17:24):
disciplinarian like Ted was a disciplinarian, right. I'll never forget
one time we're driving down ninety five until Rihanna's friend
trucked it out the window and.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
I was like, oh, you know what I mean, because.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
She was just mathing off.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
And it is very hard to be a single person
and play both those roles.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
I'm just picturing that.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, well me, I'm like the phone, you know, and
I'm like.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
I couldn't do that because Number one that I gotta
go buy damn phone again, right, and then you know,
she needs a phone. So I'm more logical, right, And
it's hard to play both roles. And there's a lot
of kids out there that are being raised in single
parent households. We're being raised by their grandparents who are
not with the times, you know, not what's going on.

(18:10):
There's a there's a lot of confusion, there's a lack
of supports, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
And I don't know what the future looks like for
these kids. I really don't.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
And then that's why I call them the lost voices,
because they don't even have a chance to speak up.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I think. I also think that they don't even know
what they're going to speak up about. I think that's
the problem. Like nobody's actually sat down with them and said,
what's going on, let's come up with a plan here.
And nobody did that with us, you know what I mean.
We still don't do that with ourselves sometimes, you know.
So to get these lost voices to do that is
really a difficult thing. And you know, and that stems
into like you know, with with the Pennsylvania Harm Reduction Network,

(18:50):
you know which you know the acronym, Go ahead, say it,
parn parn. I guess porn porn. I'll be like, she's
the execut director of porn of parn.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
I'd probably make more money if I was.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
It's a thankless job, Carla. The twenty bucks is twenty bucks.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
You know, times like that.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
I know, I know. But how how did this come about?

Speaker 2 (19:15):
And why the organization?

Speaker 3 (19:19):
The organization came about myself, you know, I'm a co founder.
And so the other founder was a woman named Brooke Feldman.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Who is Brook was on our show books.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
An amazing person and she is a product of the system.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yes, And.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
We were approached by Little Strategies through Bloomberg Philanthropies to
advocate for storrange service programs and harm reduction in the
state of Pennsylvania and to expand to expand harm reduction
throughout the state. And Brooke and I were like, oh, yeah,

(20:03):
we finally get to paid, get paid for something that
we already do, right, because this is the only work
where it's acceptable to be able to go do it
and not be paid. And so we started going around
the state and then we're talking to them about steril
syringes and you know, to decrease transmission of HIV. And

(20:24):
we're talking about an olaxone and people are like, what's
a o loxone? And that's when we realized that we
have a really big problem here in Pennsylvania. Not only
do people can't access in a lockstone, they don't even
know what it is or they think it's illegal.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Well, I want to give you a real quick thing
and what happened to me? And I lost my shit
on the guy. I went through the drive through at
the CVS in Roxboro on Ridge and I had said
that I wanted to you know, I wanted they get
a lock on and get the can with my insurance
because you're allowed to get that. The guy was like that,
what are you talking? He had zero clue, had wasn't

(21:06):
even educated, wasn't even school. He was the pharmacist, Like
he had no clue behind there, and he was giving
me a shit about it, and I like lost by shit.
I actually called CBS and I was like, you, your
organization knows nothing about this. You need to educate yourself.
So here you are, as a person who has dedicated
you know, your time, your life, your energy, and you're
finding out that all these people don't know about what this.

(21:29):
It's a life saving. It enables people to breathe and
to give them a chance to live one more day.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
You know, in Philadelphia, we were very tunnel visioned being
in Philadelphia, living in Philadelphia borneries, working in the area,
in the surrounding counties. What we did not anticipate was
moving outside of those counties, the feedback that we would
get and what that actually looks like. And it makes
sense that fifty three hundred people then died in Pennsylvania.

(21:55):
Right we are one of the top states in overdose
death rates. We are ninth highest in HIV new infections
and also hepatitis C. We're really high right now in
st STI s like STDs. Syphilis is making a huge comeback,
especially in central Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
We are.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
We are up there, and it doesn't have to be
like that. That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Which county in Pennsylvania is getting hit the worst, you know,
say Philadelphia of the equation once again.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
We so so here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Philadelphia is a very concentrated area with a lot of people,
right why because we have an open air job market.
The data looks very different across these other counties because
one they're so rural and and people are spread out
that I wouldn't even say we have an accurate snapshot
of that.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
The only thing we and you know, we have counties that.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Refuse to report their more stats of how many people
you know or fatalities from an overdose?

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Why is that? Why would these why would these county
not do that? Are they afraid to disclose the numbers
that people will think there's a problem?

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Then?

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Is it one of those question?

Speaker 3 (23:07):
And to be almost I'm not really sure why these
five counties choose to do that. I'm not sure if
it's a if it's resources, you know, I guess the
question that I have is how come the state's not
holding them accountable to report that information out? And if

(23:28):
they don't have the resources, why isn't the state doing
what they can to support them? So, you know, this
kind of goes back to like where where we're so
also in a time where everybody just wants to pass
the buck, right, nobody wants to really deal with a problem.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
It's not my job. That's not my job.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
When we're talking about really hard problems here, it's like, so.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
What can we do?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
You know?

Speaker 2 (23:55):
And I think that in a time.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Like we're in right now, where so many significant changes
are happening across the country, that one thing that I
always try to put in perspective is is that harm
reductionists is activists, Like we didn't wait for those laws

(24:18):
to change, right, we know what we had to do
and we went and did it. And we are going
through some really challenging times in this country and things
are you know, we thought that funding was short. Now
give it six months to see what that looks like.
And I think that we better buckle up. But think
more about a network throughout the state that does not

(24:45):
rely on government funding, does not rely on certain philanthropy,
maybe going underground, and what that looks like, because the
problem's not and go away, right, The problem is always
going to be there. So how can we provide resources, education,

(25:06):
and solutions to some of these rural areas that don't
have access to anything, And think about what that looks like.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
And I don't know what that looks like.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
By the way, these are just things that I'm thinking
about every day.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, you're involved, you're you're there, you're on that front
line with this, you get it, you know, Whereas myself
like I know what's happening here. I because you know,
that's where I'm focused, That's where my concentration is. It's Philly.
You know, I don't know when I hear you know,
like my my sister in law's daughter past seven overdo
she was out in Johnstown in that area and very rough.

(25:41):
I understand. And it's really interesting because when I think
about it, I say to myself, I'm like, gosh's a
little podunktown rough like that? How can that be? But
it is? You know, how many years has PARN been around?

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Almost five years?

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Almost five five years? So with all these recent government
cutbacks and funding, with the recent state cutbacks and more
so even local, how's that affecting you?

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Well, let's be clear here.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
PARTN has never received any state or federal dollars.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
I would like to think that one day we would,
but we have not yet.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Wow. So you've been operating five years as the voice
of harm reduction, the network bringing people together, compiling data,
getting people hooked up with grief and trauma counseling, connecting families,
getting people hooked up with nay locks own and distribution
of it, and you haven't received a single dime from
the federal or the state government for this anyway.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
In any way, Pennsylvania harm Reduction has not received one
dime from the state.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
But you're also working on policy, aren't you.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
That is correct, and also work hand in hand with
the state on many things.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Right. Wow, So that speaks volumes when you have what
number are we in the country Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
So I think we're in the top ten, So we're
ninth highest in the past for newest HIV infections. I
think we're at thirteen now for overdose death rates hepatitis
and STIs.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
I believe we were at ten.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
So we're up there, and they're not giving a single
dime to you for the efforts and work that you're doing.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
That is correct.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
So you know, how do you do it? Carla? How
do you get up every day? I mean, let's face it,
you got to survive. You got to survive. I mean
people have to survive in this world. Just we're advocates,
we're voices, we're activists, we're on the streets. We're doing
what we got to do, but we also got to survive.
You know, you would think that with the stigma surrounding

(27:48):
you know, this crisis, this epidemic that we've been facing
for years, they'd be bucking up to you. So how
do you survive?

Speaker 3 (27:57):
That's a great question, you know, and weekly sometimes I
don't know how I'm surviving right, Like, you know, I
think that one of the things to think about is
with this work, is that for people who are so invested,
and this is what I go back to, like harm reductionist,
people in recovery, people who are passionate about this work

(28:20):
and feel the need to wrong, you know, to to
right wrongs and be a voice for those that don't.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
We're going to continue the work regardless. Now with that.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Being said, that can also throw us into a hole,
right when we talk about things like funding.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
I cannot just cut.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
My organization off wholeheartedly because I don't have a funder
at that moment.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
So what is Calarva going to do?

Speaker 3 (28:50):
And by the way, for anybody starting a nonprofit or
an organization, do not listen to me what I do.
I'm just throwing this disclaimer out there. It is not healthy,
you know.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
So what am I going to do?

Speaker 3 (29:04):
I'm gonna do anything possible right to be able to
pay my bills, put food my daughter's mouth, but also
be able to do the work that I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
So what does that create?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Right?

Speaker 2 (29:14):
So what does that look like?

Speaker 3 (29:15):
That looks like I don't know, me cleaning houses. That
looks like me selling a T shirt.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
You know which, by the way, you have some killer
gear when you do just sell the merch, you have
some killer merch. So people you need to follow Carla
for that, because she had some killer Eagles merch.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yes, you know. Now I'm like, oh, I need a
new outlet. So I like to craft.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
So for those of you who don't know, I have
a basement that I spend countless hours and usually hours
of the night, and that's my crafting dungeon.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
And nobody bothers me down there.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
But her crafting isn't like glue and popsicle sticks. Her
crafting is like power tools. And like, yeah, and that's
not a craft to me.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I'm building things. I'm learning as I go.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
It doesn't a basis avoid permits, that's right.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
And and so and then I was like, oh, I'm
going to do a craft party.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
So anybody out there wants to have a fun night
like crafting, I'm happy to come up with a plan
with you and make porch signs and like there's you know,
hangers to put on your signing and like cool fun
stuff that also brings in community.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
But here's the problem, right, So when you and you
know this, when you.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Are financially stressed and you're trying to make ends meet,
and you're dealing with very heavy work, right like the
death of others and the death rates of Pennsylvania, you most.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Likely will burn out.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
So more than once, you know, And I think that
that's one of the things that we Another thing we
don't talk about in this space, right is how many
activists and how many advocates you know, have complete checked
out and they're not coming back, have committed suicide, you.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Know, have relapsed, have relapsed, and you know, have spiraled.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Caused serious harm to not only themselves, to their families,
to their communities.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
And to the work that they've done. And not on
purpose or intentionally, but it's what was dictated to them.
You know. I was going to say, for yourself, how
do you protect yourself? You are carrying this burden for
an entire state and then some, so you yourself have
have a recovery to protect and your recovery may look
different than everybody else's you know you don't you know,

(31:35):
people you do not need to be sober to be
in recovery. Let's face it, Let's take that word sober
and clean out of recovery. It's people keeping people alive.
It's giving people alive and off of what almost killed them.
But how do you protect yourself?

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Then, you know, it's a really good question.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
I and some days I'm good with it and some
days I'm bad. And you know, I'm lucky enough to
have friends. You are one of them.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
She's a mean cook too.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
The universe really puts people in my life, and I
feel a spiritual connection that that's important to me that
I hold to keep myself grounded. And I may not
have everything that I want, and believe me, I could
write out a long list of things that I want
right but I'm grateful that I have everything that I need.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Now.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
I also I also give myself grace, you know what
I mean? Like I give myself grace. And you know
you said you carry this burden in the state of Pennsylvania.
I don't carry the burden in the state of Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I truly don't. I did in the past.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
It took me some time but like, I don't feel
the burden. You know, if these large entities who have
bookoo dollars want to piss their money away in other states,
you know, and and they have, they're the ones that
have to look at themselves and say, how come we
didn't invest in PA harm reduction network. How come we

(33:10):
didn't invest in you know, expanding harm reduction throughout the
state on a community level?

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Right?

Speaker 2 (33:17):
How come that infrastructure was never built? That's not on.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Carla, you know. And I'm okay with that. And I
could say that today good, And.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
I was waiting to hear that, because I know in
the beginning, you did you and Brooke carried that you
felt like you did because nobody else was speaking out,
nobody else was doing the work you were doing now
that you are. And just the same with me, like
the beginning of Philly Unknown, like if somebody called me,
I was on the phone with them for hours and hours.
You set boundaries, You learn that you you're ear, you're human,

(33:46):
You're you're not in you're not immortal, you're not a superhero.
You can only do what you can do, and then
the rest will happen.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
You know, we crafted legislation, you know, to expands to
ringe access throughout the state, right, and like we poured
our hearts in that, and we're hoping that it will pass.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
But there's a lot of work that goes with that,
you know, And I believe.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
I will not follow the rhyme and reason that other
people do of working.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
And not be paid.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
My time is valuable because if I'm not being paid
doing that, then I need to go be paid doing
something else.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Right.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
You know, at the end of the day, I have
a mortgage. At the end of the day, I have
a car payment to get to those places, and you know,
you know, I have a child that relies on me,
And how am I doing?

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Like?

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Could I always go back to this though? I'm always like,
could you imagine, like if we were paid appropriately and
like had like great benefits, like like could you imagine
the work that.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Could get done and some PTO maybe Like could.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
You imagine seriously, like if we had financial security and wellness? Right, Like,
how much different Pennsylvania could be in regards to substance
use disorder, regards to harm reduction, in regards to policy.
You know, we'd be on five, we'd be killing it.
And then that often brings me to like Dannie's motherfuckers

(35:16):
trying to keep us down, like because I just don't understand.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
I don't understand it either, you know. I we talked
about recently. There was the release of the funds. There
was new grantees awarded funds through you know, the settlement
fund here in PA. You know it. Scotter Good, you know,
delineated all that to the people, and you know there
were people that weren't invited back to apply for it.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, let's talk about that. I don't know much about it.
Can you tell me?

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, I could tell you. I could tell you that
the new regime here in Philly wants to try to,
you know, get rid of harm reduction. As you know,
they're so dead set against what's going on out here
on the streets, the wound care, the mobile, the outreach,
the causing whatever they think is me cause other than
doing their jobs for the last decade plus, you know,
they took it and they said, oh, certain organizations are

(36:08):
not allowed to apply, don't even try. Yeah, like I
so like because Philly unknown was sort of associated or
not sort of is a harm reduction organization, Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
And this is to opioid settlement dollars.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yes, that were given to the state of Pennsylvania that
the governor handed down to Philadelphia said you need to
spend three point three million dollars, and they've spent two
point one and the other one point two They put
into administrative fees.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
One point two million to administrative countries.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
To the city to delineate all that money.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
That's how leadership got their rasis oh.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
My gosh, you know, so we have that happening. Yeah,
we have that happening, which you know is a big
slap in the face to all these organizations doing the
work that they're doing. So we talk about, you know yourself, like,
you know, how are we going to survive, how are
we going to get up every day? How are we
going to pay these bills? Who's going to give us
a funding? You know, when a check comes in, we're thrilled.
When a donation comes in work status.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
And it's so sad too.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
It's like we're talking peanuts, right, Like we're talking like
pennies that like we have to grabble it's.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
I just got one hundred dollars donation. Oh my gosh,
put that in my accunt immediately. But we do this,
you know, and you know that does have an effect
on us. And you're right, you know that burnout factor.
You know, we get to that breaking point. Some people
want to know why sometimes are a little off. You'd
be a little off too if you are doing the
work that you're doing and I'm doing.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
I think, I mean, our lives would be so much
easier and probably more healthy if we could clock in
and out every day and have some PTO, maybe a
little dental insurance.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
I don't know, maybe some little.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Vision vision vision.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
I need some glasses, right, my glasses two years old?

Speaker 1 (37:47):
We're good, the.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Same kind of three and you know a little four
oh one?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Kay, I don't know, I haven't had one in years.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
But you know, thinking about opioid settlement dollars, so you
just talked about those Philadelphia numbers, and so those conditions
that's put on that Philadelphia money is by Philadelphia, right,

(38:17):
So that's number one that is not by the Trust.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
So how opioid settlement dollars work?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Is?

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Our Governor Josh Shapiro at that time was Attorney General
who went after the pharma produced Sackler family and since then,
not only those entities now Walmart, CBS and I think
like ten other entities and actually counties are about to

(38:49):
receive a really large payment, almost double what their last
payment was, and I don't even know how they're going
to figure out how to spend it, because I believe
Walmart just paid out.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
So you know.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
The problem is is that we knew that this was coming.
We knew these dollars were coming. However, there was no
really thought process planned. This has never happened before, right,
We've never had millions of dollars coming into states.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
And then giving it to organizations that don't have to
function when you're giving them that type of money.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Well, so it's interesting the way that it broke down,
and each state is differently by the way, So you know,
for Pennsylvania, how it works is seventy five percent goes
to the counties and they on their own terms and discretion,
as long as they adbide by a worksheet called Exhibit E,

(39:46):
which means like five categories which would say things like prevention,
harm reduction, recovery, use tools, things like that. Then the
air compliance there client to the Exhibit E. They spend
the money, and how it works is is that they

(40:07):
on their own terms spend the money and then after
they spend the money, then they go to the trust,
and the trust then reviews it, and then that's when
they get approval to do that again for the following year.
So I don't know who the health thought of this
system or why this would make sense. The other thirty

(40:32):
percent goes fifteen percent goes to DDAP, the Department of
Dragging Alcohol, and the other fifteen percent goes to the
Pennsylvania legislature. So the other thing is that this is
not legislation, right, This is not crafted in our halls

(40:52):
in Harrisberg at our Stay capitalb Like this.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Is a lawsuit, right. These are lawsuits.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
So they can't just be tank with. They can't easily
be amended. If something doesn't work, there has to be
a lot of push and of Quite frankly, I don't
think really anybody knows. Nobody knows what needs to be
done to maybe change a system.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
There's really no type of guideline or structure that says
this is what we're really looking for in order to
make that expenditure make sense. Right.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
And then you know, we have to remember that the
guidelines that we are giving to people are very subjective, right,
So you know what means one thing to somebody could
mean something very different to somebody else. Right, So Philadelphia,
for example, they had said, and I think believe you
were Philandon was a part of this where we had said,

(41:51):
you know, we want to support the neighborhood that holds
the open air drug market that has been traumatized for
over thirty years with things like rehabilitating homes and providing
workforce development, workforce development like community like revitalization.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Right, is that a good way to put it?

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yep, yeah, right, considering the community has been harmed for
thirty years and continuing to be harmed. So I would
say that that is an excellent support. Through opioid settlement dollars,
We're talking about millions of dollars that they can't even
spend down fast enough, right to help the wellness of

(42:36):
a community.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
We know that.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
You know, Philadelphia then had to defend the work that
it did in court and appeal.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
There's approved uses, there's not approved uses.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
And it's fascinating to see people who are not public
health experts, ranging from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh and in between,
of state legislators, legislators that are you know, in counties

(43:16):
that has no idea what Philadelphia could possibly be going through.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
And they're not a public health expert.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
They're just selected just because to make decisions of millions
of dollars.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
And they're making some wrong decisions and we can we
get attest to that. So what's it going to take?
What with all the years of involvement and all the
work that you do and all the the data you've
been able to compile and get from where you get
it from and friends that have been what's it going
to take at this point? And I say what's going

(43:52):
to take? I'm leaving a very open end of but
what's it going to take?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Oh jeez, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Well.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
I think number one is this is like talking about
this in open spaces like this, so people actually know
what's going on, because this is the details that I'm
describing are are very granular, and people don't really understand
where you know, for example, opioid settlement dollars go to
or how they came to be right. So so awareness

(44:18):
of being educated is one thing, and then the next
thing is you know, if you feel compelled, which I
hope that you do if you're a person in recovery,
I hope that you do. If you're a family member,
I hope that you do at the end of the day,
things like talking about opioid settlement dollars is blood money.
These are from our dead loved ones. It's the only

(44:41):
reason this money is coming to our local area, and
you need.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
To advocate for it.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
It shouldn't go to leadership salaries or administrative fees. I
just found out that the state spent something I don't know,
like one point three million dollars.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
What do you just said that three million dollars? I
was just thinking about.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
I was just on a call with Sue and she
was just giving me some other ridiculous number, and I
was like blown away.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
I'm surprised every day, right, and saying like this.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Blood money should not just be going to waste or
people's pockets or to create another business of recovery, right,
and so what should be done with this money?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Right?

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Like?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
What are solutions?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Right?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
So and looking at solutions, So what a solutions look like?

Speaker 3 (45:34):
I know what I can advocate for, and I'm going
to advocate for any evidence based solution, not an opinion
focused fellowship meeting awareness campaign.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
That doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
I want to see the data and proven metrics of
how something works.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Right, That is my philosophy.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
I would like to think that that shouldn't be so far,
you know, considering people are willing to.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Spend hundreds of thousand dollars on god knows what.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
There are tools that we're created out there to promote transparency.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Let's use those tools.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Some of them are like rubric systems, so you know,
you can receive grant applications and have a way to
then scale them and say with check marks, does this
meet this need?

Speaker 2 (46:28):
This need? This need?

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Right, there's tools that are created out there. We don't
need to like reinvent the wheel. This work's been done.
There's some states out there that's doing this right. Is
there states out there that's perfect?

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
But the reality of it is is like we can't
continue to have these high death rates and just sit
there and say we're doing a great job, because we're not.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
I would tell you that. To have a number like
that and have somebody say we're doing a good job,
I think they're speaking out of their ass. To have
a number that high, I mean, that's just ridiculous. Think
about it. I mean, and that's a number in a
alone in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania alone. I mean that's a large number.
Forty forty seven.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, I think we're forty seven. I think it's like
forty seven eighty two.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
And a fifty percent increase in black and brown populations
in the past three years. That is a large increase,
and nobody's talking about.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
It, especially in that population, because that population wasn't one
that was greatly affected by the opioid epidemic, you know.
That was more of a of a crack you know, epidemic, Yeah,
you know. And that's why there was such division because
once it became heroin, it became catered to a white

(47:44):
demographic and all of a sudden people started caring and
they didn't care. And now you're not hearing about this.
So what number are we at now with black and
brown population?

Speaker 3 (47:52):
So we saw a fifty forty seven to fifty percent
increase in black and brown populations that overdose, that raids fatalities.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
We don't hear about those.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
No, we don't hear about.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
Those, and so we have to take a look at
like why is this happening?

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Right?

Speaker 2 (48:08):
And the other interesting thing is this is men.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
The other category is men, and between the ages, I
believe of like thirty two and fifty five. Don't quote
me on that. I'm envisioning a graft in my mind.
But anybody can go look at this data at our
state's department online.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
So that's a DDAPS website.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
So I think that that's pa DDAP dot gov and
the data is right there at least. The one good
thing about our state is that for the most part,
they're pretty transparent on those numbers, and you can search for,
you know, HIV numbers and cause of death numbers, emergency

(48:53):
department numbers. It might be a little backdated, I think
by like sixty eight months, sometimes.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
A year, but quarterly it's out there.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
And for any providers that listen to your show, any
harm induct, any grassroots people, any families, really right, because
this information is for everybody.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
There's monthly reports that go.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Out by the Department of Health that give statistics, so
you know, the overview is constantly updated. It may not
be put specifically on the website right away, but there's
reports that go out and you can go to the
Department of Health website and register for those alerts.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
And it's funny I always saying what you're telling people
to do is what I always tell people when they say,
what can we do to be something? Arm yourself with knowledge.
Get informed, man, Know those numbers and no accuracy, no
legitimate numbers. Don't just hear from somebody that you heard
from somebody that you read this. Get the right information.

(49:54):
Knowledge is so powerful. It's one of the most dangerous
weapons we have if it's used right, you know, in
the right way. Know what I'm saying. And I think
people don't do that. I think a lot of people
are afraid to find that out because once they get that,
that becomes all too real then, you know. And I think,
you know, then people don't like that because they want
to live in their own little bubble or their spheres.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I mean, sometimes I go there for a little bit,
but yeah, it's a nice place, it's cozy.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
It sucks coming out. That sucks coming out of that bubble.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
It really does.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
But you know, I have a constant reminder that I
go home every day too, right, that doesn't allow me
to stay.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
In the bubble, you know.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
And and I think that that's the reality of it
is that families today are dealing with some really hard things.
They are not supported, they don't know where to turn
to support. I mean we also need to be thinking
about non traditional ways of support implementing harm reduction principles.
You know of literally the cliche of meeting people where

(50:54):
they are and then bringing them along.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
You know, just posted about that.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, I mean it's really that simple. It's like to
sit there, don't be a fixer.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
No, you can't, and you can't you know what, when
they're ready, because people have to be ready too.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
It's very difficult for people to sit there listen. It
was very difficult for me.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
I had to learn. I took a training on this.
Actually it's called intentional peer support.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
To sit there and listen to somebody's problems or somebody
tell you about their plan of suicide, and to sit
there and not be a fixer, not provide my own
personal input of my experience.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Right, it doesn't matter to them to sit there and
be supportive, but.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
To then use active listening, right, and provide solutions options
that they can then choose from. But doing it in
a way of where like I'm not telling you what
to do.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Here's the roads that you could take. You can go
route down road one and this can happen. You can
go down the middle road, this happen, three, this is
going to happen. And I think that that's kind of
like where.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Non judgment support is like the most important thing, you know, and.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I think that that's an area that we could do better.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
I have a question I want to ask, because I
you know, we talk about overdoses and everybody says an
accidental overdose, you know, they pat how many overdoses do
people go into saying I'm going to overdose to kill
myself today? Aren't a majority of them assumed to be
an accidental wouldn't you think that? I mean, oh yeah,
they answer zero, Okay, yeah, So I hear that when
they're like all the accidental overdose, and then it makes

(52:39):
me like think to myself, who out there on drugs
is going to trying to kill themselves? You know?

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I mean that's an excellent point, right, Like we're so
used to the language of accidental overdoses. I guess the
reality of it is people right back to stigma and shame.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Well, if you do drugs, you must want to die.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Right, I get it, all right, But I've always thought
that I saw it was and that always bothers me
when that worked for some reason. Yeah, one of my
little pet peas. But you know, what about anything you
want to tell us that I didn't touch on or
I didn't ask for that you want to just bring
out there? Because there's a lot, I mean, there's unpacked stuff.
In an hour. Sometimes it's so difficult. But what is

(53:23):
what is this you want to what is there a
message you want to send? Is there something side?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
I don't know?

Speaker 3 (53:27):
I mean, so, so, here's a few things that are
happening that I think it's important that your listeners know about.
One is there will be an open meeting by the
Abatement Trust of Pennsylvania that is the oversight of the
Opioid Settlement dollars, and that will be on August twenty first.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Which is next week Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Is that Tuesday or Thursday? I feel like it's Thursday.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
You're right, It's it's Thursday, my thought. Okay.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
And you can go to phr and dot org to
find out more information and to sign up to.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Give public comment.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
If you would like to give public comment, please do
so sooner rather than later. They are allowing, for the
first time in three years, the public to be there
at the meeting in order for their transparency processes, which
they don't have to do, by the way, because they
are not an NGO and they don't have to abide
by the Sunshine Act.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
They were built that way of course.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
So they are allowing people five minutes for an hour.
We will be doing a call to action and what
that looks like is is that we are hoping that
folks can come join us in person. You can get
online at zoom as well. The link will be on
PHR dot org. And the goal is, due to it
is being August, we are going to show up with

(54:56):
signs of our loved ones who have passed away and
remind and hold the trust accountable that the reason that
they are in charge of these dollars and to do
right by the public by looking at our dead loved
one space.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
So that's Thursday, August twenty first, yes, and if they
want to get that, it's PA h P A h
r N dot org is your website.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
You have to find out more information check us out
at PA harm Reduction Network. On social feel free to
inbox on there if you need more information.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
And very active on Instagram. There's a lot you do
a lot of good posts on there that you know
informative which is important.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
And I'll share it with you so your audience can
also tag you and you can tag it as well.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Cool. Cool, I mean, because this is this is important stuff.
I mean, like I said, this is such important stuff
for people to know.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
This is billions of dollars that for the next eighteen
years is going to be coming into the state of
Pennsylvania and those affected have every right to that money
as much as everybody else in the trust of the
fourteen people that are handling those dollars.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
So much hell, I want to say, I just don't
have enough time. There's not enough time.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
There's not enough time.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, So what do you do real quick? What do
you do then to escape? Other than you're dongeon with
the DIY projects? What do you do for escape because
all this that you deal with and all that you retain,
and what do you do?

Speaker 3 (56:20):
I don't know, man, I mean I go down the shore.
I would like to say that that's relaxing. You know.
I've been going to the beach more considering the summer's
almost over. I'm like, I need to get to the beach,
right and I'm really trying to just be quiet at

(56:44):
the beach. I try to go by myself. That's my
self care, grounding myself. I would love to say, like, oh,
I do meditation and all this other bullshit. Meditation takes work.
I'm not down for the work for it, not just yet.
I do my own form of meditation, which is just
like me trying to ground myself in silence.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
What else do I do? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
My mind's constantly going my garden. I have cucumbers, never
grew them before. That's an interesting thing. I probably need
your help on that. Yeah, I mean I'll powerwash something.
I don't know, man, like I you know, I'm just
getting vibe.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
You like active stuff, though you're very active.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
I need to be active because if not, when I
sit still and my body is not in motion, my
mind typically is not at rest. And I don't know
if this is an eighty D thing or what it is.
But for example, if I'm doing something like powerwashing, right,

(57:53):
it's mindless, right, it's emotion. I'm going back and forth.
I'm going back and forth, and I'm accomplished, right, Like
you see that dart coming off there and you're like,
I fucking did something today, and and that is like
therapy in itself right.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Oh my god, it's amazing. It's like I'm a winner.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
And and and so anything anything that involves motion with
no mindset to it, I'm here for it, you know.
And then and then I'll do my crafty craft stuff.
But that's how I ended up painting and stuff like that.
Pour some pain on a canvas. I'm not an artist.
I just like pouring ship places with different colors. And

(58:32):
it's mindless.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
It works, it does. Mindless stuff does work for people
like us who are always on the go and our
brains never shut down.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
That's powerflashing. It's awesome.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
It is, I'm telling you. Watering the garden is like therapy.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
It's like, oh my god, I love pruning.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
I just love like getting in there and I'm like,
you know, it's so fun and I'm like a pick
or so well.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
I am so glad that you were able to take
this time to see her and talk about what we
talked about for overdose Awareness Months, because it's so important
because we have both been affected by it in many ways.
You know, it hits personally to us, and it's very
important that people know out there that they are not alone.
That that's shame. The guilt that they are carrying, that
it's okay to let it go, It's okay.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
I just want to say one thing real quick, that
somebody put me onto a few weeks ago, and I
started writing a framework of shame and guilt and substance use.
And I had mentioned that I felt guilty about something
and the person said to me, well, that's that's a
man made motion, like you created that emotion. And I'm like,

(59:42):
excuse me, why don't want you validating me? Weren't validating
my emotions?

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Right?

Speaker 3 (59:47):
And he said, well, guilt is due to judgment by
others expectations or others rules.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Right. So for example, if it was acceptable for.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Insert, if it was acceptable for you to use drugs
every day, right, would you feel guilty?

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You wouldn't. You wouldn't feel guilty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Right, You're doing something that's acceptable.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Social norms created guilt.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Society has conditioned us to feel or think that this
is how we are supposed to be, This is how
we are supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Feeling. Guilt is from societal norms that have been placed
on us. That's it. It's been created.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
And when we stop giving a fuck about what societal
norms are or how it pertains to us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Guilt is non existent.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
I love that. Oh my gosh, we're going to replay
that and do a whole new show on that one before.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
I'm digging deeper into this right now and really thinking
about this, and I'm in the process of like creating
a framework around this of like the role of guilt
and shame and substance use. Guilt and shame is what
kept me out there way much longer than I needed
to be before I ask them for help.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I was so beat up and so ashamed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
It's nice when we were able to finally say enough,
Yeah it is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
So that's the hope thing about guilt.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Well, and for anybody out there who is going through
it and they're afraid to, you know, reach out. Don't
be afraid to reach out. There's many people out there
that are willing to help for people that are going
through it, and it's not them. It's a family one,
a loved one. It's a son, brother, mother, sister, whatever.
Reach out, reach out to myself, reach out to Carla.
Carla is a great resource. Like she said, p A

(01:01:49):
h r N dot org. Send her a message. There
is help. There's people out there that listen. There's people
out there that help you understand as well. So Carla,
thanks so much. Thanks for doing all you do, because
what you do it was important.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
I hope you know that I appreciate you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
I know sometimes it's thankless.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
But I'm learning to accept.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Thank you fucking accepted.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
All right, Yes, sir, all right, I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
You one of the best. And everybody out there remember
whatever is you stand for, be a voice. This is
Brick Carpenter on USULA Media. Have a great rest of
your day.
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