August 1, 2024 • 28 mins
We've all seen good and bad taxidermy. Preserving our memories in the field and paying respect to the bear after the hunt is important to bear hunters. Hunter's and taxidermists both have important roles to play in preserving the memory from hide care to all the steps in the taxidermy processes. Bears are a difficult animal to mount and we're talking about it in this episode of the Bear Hunting Magazine Huntcast!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine Hunt Cast with me
Koby Morehead. We're gonna nerd out on bears hunting and
the outdoors. We'll tell stories, talk biology, tactics, gear, and
the fight to protect the pursuits that we hold dear, So,
grab your bino's, lace up your boots, load up your barrels,
and gather the hounds.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Sweet venture on this journey.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Together today on the podcast. Wait a minute, I'm so
excited about this episode that I forgot to say welcome
(00:50):
to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
But now that that's done.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
On this episode of the Bear Hunting Magazine Hunt Cast,
Large carnivore biologists, my Reman from the Arkansas Game and
Fish is back, and this time we're talking about something
else said he has done for thirty years, and that
is taxidermy. We hunters are a pretty sentimental bunch, and
(01:14):
I love preserving the memories of my hunt and try
to remember the animals the way that I saw them
out in a while. So today we're gonna talk about
how Maren got into taxidermy, some of his history. We're
gonna talk about some of the things that taxidermists do
that you might not know about. We're gonna talk about
hide care, and then we're also gonna talk about some
(01:38):
of the measurements that a taxidermists will take on a
black bear. And so I think you're gonna really enjoy
this one. And this is some really good information to
take away that seems it just feels very practical. Here's
Myron talking about his introduction into taxidermy, and I really
(01:58):
really know you're gonna like this one.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Done taxidermy for about thirty years, I had the opportunity
to learn from a guy that I worked with. He
was a really really accomplished taxidermy, a really good taxi dermist.
You know, he had one Master's division and a lot
of shows that he entered and everything, so and I
kind of wanted to learn it. I mean, I was
intrigued by it, of course, you know. And you know
(02:30):
at the time, you always look at a really lucrative
sideline that you can have and kind of have on
your own time working with any state or federal agency.
Most people want a sideline, you know, that provides some
extra funding. But I kind of got a fast track
from him into the world of tax dermy, and I
(02:53):
was able to learn from him and just kind of
went from there. And when I moved to Arkansas, of
course I had I'd worked with him for you know,
two or three years at that point, started doing my
own work, going to state shows and everything, and kind
of getting into the network in Arkansas and going to
shows and seminars and entering pieces and learning from you know,
(03:15):
your mistakes and everything. Kind of developed that into just
a really good business. I mean, I enjoy doing it.
I have scaled back a whole lot from what I
used to do. I still do, you know, a lot
of mammal work, deer and life sized mammals and all
that stuff every year. I really appreciate doing Bear. I mean,
(03:36):
I guess I'm involved with Bear from start to finish.
I just really enjoy doing bears. I like doing them.
I like being able to make a really, really good
looking end product with a bear.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So, typically that we would release these podcast episodes, we
would talk about Myron's history, who he is, what his
path has looked like, and then we would move into
a lot of the information that they have. We're doing
this kind of and reverse. So if you listen to
these first two podcasts with Myron about finding bears using
(04:19):
natural foods and then now taxidermy. You're really gonna appreciate
it whenever you hear his full story. But to give
a little context, now, Myron started out working for the
US Fish and Wildlife Service and who's based in Tulsa,
and that's where he learned taxidermy from a fellow employee
(04:40):
of the US Fishing Game there. Later he would move
back home to Arkansas and work for the Arkansas Game
and Fish Commission. Today, Myron manages the black bear research
here in Arkansas. So when he says that he's involved
with black bears from beginning to end, he truly does
(05:01):
cover the full gambit.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So it is kind of funny.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Black bears can be a difficult critter to capture inside
of the taxidermy world, to make them look real, to
make them really look the way that they did on
the pall. And there is another critter that is well
known to be difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Have you done any cats or I do.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I've done a lot of cats. You know, we say
in the taxidermy world, cats are kind of one of
them things that separate the men from the boys. Yes,
so to speak, you know, being able to do a
really really good cat with the I can't and you know,
and and anatomy and stuff like that. That's you know,
it's it's not something that everybody has the talent to do.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I got a Canadian Lynx a few years ago. Oh,
I've got it tanned, but I've been nervous to get
it tax dermy because I'm like an average taxidermist wouldn't
make this not such a great memory.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
You are right about that, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
We're not ragging on taxidermists here, okay, but either you
or somebody you know has been burnt by a taxidermist
taken on a project that they weren't prepared for. And
it's difficult to do bears and cats if you haven't
been trained on them. So it's just a word of caution.
(06:34):
One thing I have learned is a guy can do
excellent white tailed deer mounts and not do a fantastic
job on a bear.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
And that's from personal experience.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So hopefully you'll have some good questions to ask after
this podcast is done.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So let's get back to it.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
You know, if most taxidermists are honest with themselves, you know,
and have a good eye with it, I mean you know,
if you're a cat person or not. You know, you know,
if you're a if you're a turkey person or not.
You know, and uh you know, I mean, uh, I'm
honest and I'll tell people, you know, if you want
me to mount a turkey, I know, I'm just I'm
(07:18):
just not a turkey person, you know. I mean, you
don't need me to mount a turkey for you. But yeah,
I mean, cats are It's one of those unique things.
It takes a certain eye for it. It takes it
just takes the knowledge of how to put it all
together to make a cat look right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I've seen that with bears though, too. Like bears that
seem to be really easy to mess.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Up, they are they are.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oftentimes you'll you'll see a bear that's done and it
won't represent the size that it truly was. Yeah, those
hides will shrink during the tanning process.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
They will shrink, but you know, with good rehydration and everything,
they'll stretch back out.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I talked to one tax dermis I know up in Maine,
and he was like, I can make it bigger than
it was.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
You can. He's definitely can say with deer.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So one of the things that's key and good tax
dermy work is the quality of the hide. So what
are your thoughts on hide care in the field.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, the key, the key thing with bears, especially you know,
doing bear work in Arkansas is the timing when most
bears are harvested. Typically, most bears are harvested in Arkansas
with archery equipment, which means it's going to be hot.
And so it's one of the big things that I
(08:38):
look for in doing any any type of bear mount,
whether it's a rug, whether it's a throw, just having
the hide tan for a throw, whether it's a backpack
mount or a life size mount. H it's I always
look for the quality of the hide that I get in.
(09:02):
And some of the biggest mistakes that I will see
people make with bears is leaving that bear too long
in the field. I didn't make a good shot. You know.
I'll have people say, well, I let it set. You know,
I left it overnight. They're hunting in the evening. I
left it overnight because I just would wasn't sure. Well,
(09:22):
if you do that in the early part of both
seasons and Arkansas, chances are by the time you get
to it, by the time you get it skinned or
whatever else that hide's going to be done, it's going
to be slipping. And a lot of times with bears, bears,
any type of predator, cats, coyotes, bears, any type of
(09:42):
predator like that. Yet a lot of times you can't
tell how bad it's going to be until after the
tanning process. The tanning process is what locks the hair
follicle into the hide. And if that follicle has degenerated
from back tiers and it's going to cause that hair
to fall out of that hair tract, it's gonna do
(10:06):
it during the tanning process, not the skinning process. The
tanning process. If someone brings me a bear, I'm gonna
quiz them pretty hard about how they have taken care
of that hide up to that point, you know. And
it even goes as far as how did you place
it in the freezer? If you left a bunch of
(10:27):
the fat on it when you skinned it. You on
a life sized mount and it's got three inches of
fat on it, and you rolled this two hundred pound
hide up and threw it in the freezer. The middle
of that thing isn't gonna get froze for four days.
And it's no different than sitting out under a cool
shed for four days. It's just sitting there, bacteria loading
(10:48):
up in the hair, and it's gonna cause it to slip,
especially if they rolled the face in first, because you know,
the face around the mouth, the face, the arm pace,
it's areas of any animal like that are going to
be the most prone to slip because those are the
areas that have the highest bacteria loads on a skin.
(11:13):
I'm always really careful because I mean, one thing I
don't want to do is to put several hours of
work into cleaning the hide, salting the hide, taking the
feed out, taking the head out, and doing all that,
and then I send it off to a tanner and
the hide is you know, I'm going to have slip
spots all over it. You're not going to be able
(11:33):
to put a product out. And that's a lot of
work that's just down the drain.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
So I'm usually really diligent about hunters, you know, about
quizzing them how they've cared for that hide prior to
me getting it.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I mean, that would be something that would be primarily
bear you know, questions, not as necessarily with deer or yeah, deer.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I mean yeah, deer. Yeah, it's the hide's a lot thinner.
They don't have as much fat, they don't have bacteria
loads like a bear does, and they can tolerate a
whole lot more mistreatment than a bear hide can. So yeah, deer,
just they're totally different.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
You know, we could talk about my bear from this
last year as far as hide care, and I'll put
myself on the chopping flot. But you're doing a rug
for me off of my big Arkansas bear from last year.
And we didn't have a way of weighing it. I'm
gonna say it was easily over four hundred, like it
was just yeah, it was. We couldn't hardly roll up
(12:36):
that thing over. So I shot the bear, went out
there and had a really great blood trail. Felt good
about the shot. I didn't want to pressure it just
in case. But what I did was I was carefully
like I saw the blood trail, and I was carefully
walking it slowly, like almost like I was stalking and
(12:57):
making sure that I was looking up ahead and everything.
I didn't give that bear too much time with all
the blood I was seeing, I was like, he's not
too far.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So I decided to back out.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
A little bit, because once I got to the point
where that blood quit pumping and it just got more sparse,
I was like, well, he's done up there somewhere, but
just in case, let me back up just a little bit.
And so we gave him probably another like I don't know,
twenty minutes or so, fifteen twenty minutes. And what I
did was I started looking with my eyes and started
(13:31):
trying to blood trail because I saw where he was
headed to, and so he had gone downhill, and so
I just walked the ridge and was looking and I
was looking for like a darker shadow because.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
There was a lot of trees.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
He had only gone probably probably sixty yards or so,
but part of that was him like rolling down, you know.
And so the only reason I was able to see
him from I jumped up on a rock I can
look down. The only reason I saw him was he
got caught by this probably like three inch tree sapling,
you know. But I mean we started on him within
(14:09):
an hour of Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Mean your hide turned out it was just his premium.
It was perfect, you know. Yeah, it's a really good
fresh hide and everything, and I mean, you know, by
the time I get them. I have to, like say,
I have to take the head out, usually the feet,
because it's easier for me to do it than to
have the customer. Most people aren't real familiar with doing
something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And you can do it the way that you prefer.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, I'll do it the way I prefer. I'll do it.
I'll you know, flesh the hide, get it ready for salt.
You have to remove every bit of the fat off
of them. You have to invert the eyes and the
lips and the ears and all that stuff. Regardless of
what you're gonna do. You have to do all that
stuff just to prep the cap.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Well, here's one of the things I was going to
say that I did that I think helped it instead
of throwing it in the freezer real quick that night.
I mean this was mid September.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It was hot.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Once we got that bear skinned out as long as
I could, like, I rolled it up to get it
up to the truck. But we got up to the
truck and I just tried to like lay it as
open as possible. I opened up the vents on the
on my bed cap to where some fresh air would
get in there. And when I got home, I went
and laid it fat up the bottom side of the
(15:24):
hide up over the back.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Of a trailer gate. Perfect and so.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
But one thing that I was noticing is as by
the time that I got up to the truck with
that hide, after even laying it out and keeping it
open from where we were skinning it, it was cool
to the touch.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Just from the night air.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And so I had another hunt coming up, like, I
didn't have time to really mess with it then, and
so I put it over that trailer and the next
morning I got up went and then I folded it
up and put it in the freezer, and I think
I left the paws hanging out of the high and
I left the the head on top. And basically my
(16:05):
thinking behind that is anything that that had any type
of i'm gonna call it insulation factors inside of that hide,
I wanted to make sure that it cooled as fast
as possible.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's perfect because the way that guys do it in
the West, they're hiking it out for miles. It might
even be laying out over a limb or something. Yeah,
but those hides are typically, from what I understand, pretty
good and okay because they got that initial heat off
(16:38):
of it. It's in the shade, it's getting air.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, and that's the real key. I mean, you know,
of course it's more arid environment out there as well,
but I mean doing what you did, you know, laying
that hide out fat side up and just allowing that
skin and fat to cool, allowing some of that moisture
to get out of it. I mean, you know, back
tier of breeds with damp moist environments. The dryer it is,
(17:04):
the less bacteria loads you're going to have, and it
just doesn't foster that bacteria setting up. And so yeah,
I mean that's not to say that you know, you
got to get out there in mid September and get
a and get a bear skinned and you know, all
the fat off and all that within a couple of hours,
But I mean you don't have a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean I probably shot this bear an hour
before the end of daylight, like he came in earlier
than expected, and I got home around two am, and
so that was quite a bit of time. I mean,
I'll tell you, by the time I got home that
night from skinning that bear out with my buddy, I
was questioning every life decision that I that I had
(17:48):
made What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Like I killed a big bear?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And it's like I was feeling so exhausted that I
was like questioning all my life decisions.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah. I have a friend of mine that harvested a
four thirty eight and I told him, I said, you know,
he's harvested a couple of bears before, but they're smaller bears.
And I said, you need to understand where you find
this one. That's where you're gonna skin it. Yeah, and
he did, and he was like, you say, he got
done at four am. You know, he recovered, he washed
(18:17):
it die at right before dark and here and he
got out of the woods at four am. But you
know he did everything right cape care and laid it out.
But you know, I would say, I would say, the
main thing, it's just you know, the main thing bear,
anything that has to do with bears, it's just be
(18:39):
as prepared as you can be prepared for success. You know,
don't let those animals lay out overnight with all the
muscle and introls and everything else in them. If it's
eighty degrees at night, don't let them lay there overnight,
because they're gonna be done meat's going to be done,
the hide is going to be done. There's just way
(19:00):
too much fat and way too much bile mask that's
just setting there generating heat, laying on the ground. Yeah,
and so but you know, once you get one skinned
out and everything, you don't have to you don't have
to be a professional flesher and everything. Just get lay
that hide out, get it cooled, leave the feet and
(19:20):
head in it. If if you need to go ahead
and remove a tooth, yeah, so you can submit that
with your with a tooth packet.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
But I've made that mistake every time when.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You when you fold it or when you put it
place it in the freezer. You know, make sure you
fold it, don't roll it especially don't roll it head inside. Yeah,
just fold it as few times as you can, lay
it in the flip freezer pretty flat to where the
head and and you have a lot of surface area
to freeze quickly.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And another thing about taxidermy, You know, I catch a
lot of people doing this, and like I said, I've
been doing it for thirty years and and uh, you know,
tax ermy is like anything else. You know, any trade
out there has you know, people that are really horrible
at it doing it, and people that are really good
at it doing it. But you know, tax dermy isn't
(20:18):
any different than any other trade. By and large, you
really kind of get what you pay for.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
You know, if you were to go and pick a taxidermist,
what kind of questions would you be asking?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
What would you be looking for?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I would ask for photos? Yeah, or references? You know,
have they ever done competition work? You know, and blah
blah blah and that sort of thing. I mean, doesn't
hurt to do a little bit of background.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
On them, yeah, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I mean if most taxidermists, I mean, if they've done
really nice work that they're proud of, they're going to
have photos of it, you know. Yeah, I took I
take a lot of photos of you know, my life
sized stuff that i'd done and put in you know,
different businesses and everything else like that, and you know,
(21:08):
just neat stuff that I like to do. I mean,
I take pictures of still most of my shoulder mount deer.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Do you still do any competitions or anything? No? No, no, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I do it for h I do it for dough,
not for show. Yeah, I mean I still do competition
quality work. But yeah, I don't chase ribbons anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
The last thing that I want to talk about is
how to skin your bear if you have the option, like,
how would you prefer a bear hydee skin that comes
into you for based upon the different types of amounts.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Man, Honestly, I mean if I was going to do
a full body mount, you know, on a on a bear,
I would much rather have a dorsal cut, you know,
from the back of the head down to the tail,
right straight down the spine. But that's not any way
the easiest way to skin a bear. That is a
very difficult way to skin a bear, but for a taxidermis,
(22:12):
I mean that's you know, that's four foot of sewing
as opposed to fifteen foot of sewing that I have
to do. But really, I mean, just day in day out,
the easiest way to skin a bear, and the way
to get them the cleanest and everything is just lay
them on their back and do a ventral cut, just
like you would if you were having a rug done.
The same cut will suffice with a half mount, same
(22:34):
cut will suffice with a backpack mount or a full
body mount. It just means I'm going to have to
do a lot of sewing for a full body, but
you know, lay them on their back, lay their back
feed out, lay their front feet out, and go from
basically the throat straight down the mid line of the
belly to the vent or just short of the vent
(22:57):
and then go off, you know, at the mid part
of the back legs, the mid part of the inner
thigh and go out and stay on the inside of
it and try to roll around to by the time, say,
by the time you got to the back foot, you
would be going down the back of the leg right
(23:18):
where the hair seam is. You're going to start off
in the middle, and when you get past the when
you get past the knee, you would kind of angle
towards the back of the hill and just leave it
at the back of the foot and then do the
same things on the front. You're going to start in
the center of the armpit and go straight out the
arms as if you would imagine going straight to the
(23:41):
middle of the pad. That's the cut you're gonna make.
And that's just the standard center. Yeah, standard way to
skin a bear. Just lay it out and just try
to get as much fat off as you can.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
You know, Yeah, I got a really pretty cinnamon bear
that had a big, you know, chest patch of white.
They went down with that. When what we did we
did that ventral cut like you were talking about, but
then we tube skinned it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
The outfitter I was with does does it that way anyways?
Oh yeah, but he's because he just was given the
tax nunverers the option with that one. It's like, let's
protect this white as much as possible, because.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
It's like, yeah, I had an incredible blaze on it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
When I first saw that bear, I didn't know where
it stopped. It looked like that chest patch never never
would stop.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
So but I mean, just a standard cut, that's that's
gonna work for just about anything. You know. Of course,
if I was doing a competition bear mount or something
like that, Yeah, I'd never skinned one with twelve feet
of seam to cover up you know, it'd be a
dorsal cut. Yeah, and it'd be a very short dorsal cut.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, like the first bear that I ever had mounted.
The guy after the fact that it was clear that
he didn't do black bears. I mean I think he didn't.
Like you were talking about hydrate the skin and you
can run your finger down that scene and it's just
like the nastiest so job. Anyways, you can run your
(25:11):
finger down it and you feel like you're running down
like the.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Ribs of a road or something.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You know, it's definitely not the size bear, because you
know that first bear I killed, I wrote an article
about it, and Clay put my picture on the cover.
That was a surprise. It just showed up in the mailbox.
I was like, oh, that looks familiar. But he was
clearly very chesty. He had those stove pipe legs like
(25:36):
he was like you talked, you've talked about. He was
just a huge specimen. I mean, this was a three
point fifty plus bear. And when I got it back,
I was like, I feel like it looks good, but
I feel like that bear was bigger than that. And
so sometimes I'll keep that photo on my phone and
somebody looks at that mountain like, hey, just let you
(25:57):
know he was bigger than that, and then show them.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, and uh well, you know, I mean, uh well,
that's another thing. I mean with keeping the head or
the whole head intact and without skinning that, it allows
the tax of dermis to take some pretty key head measurements.
Which really are the most critical measurements when you're buying
a bear form. I mean, one thing you don't want
to do is buy the wrong size bear form. And
(26:24):
I mean bear forms are expensive, very expensive, several hundred
dollars or some of them, you know, some of the
really big ones cost the grand and uh, so you
know you want to you want to make sure you
have all the measurements, the right measurements, and be able
to order a form appropriate for the for that bear.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So, yeah, what measurements are really important whenever you're like,
that's the head.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
What other measurements are you taking?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
The eye to nose And it's measurement from the front
corner of the eye to the nose. Uh, that's the
critical measurement, from the tip of the nose across the
back to the tip of the tail. The total length,
that's a critical measurement. And the girth at the mid
part of the belly, not under the arms, but at
the heaviest part mid section of the body. Those are
(27:15):
the three measurements you need and you can make them
before you skin it. You just has to let your
taxidermists know because the total length isn't going to be
any different, but the girth will be. But you know,
as long as you have iron nose, total length and girth, yeah,
you ought to be able to order a perfect size
(27:36):
form for it. If there's enough variability out there in
bear forms.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That would that be important on a shoulder mount too, Yes, okay,
so guys need to give a little bit of extra
to make sure they go past that midpoint if they
cut the bottom.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, but I mean, you know, if you're doing a
half life size or something like that, the real critical
is the iron nose and if they've still got the
head in it when the taxidermist gets it, you know,
that's that's gonna be. And he ought to be able
to determine, you know how it is that's a really
big five inch bear. It's just an average five inch bear,
five inch being out of those measurement you know.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
So would you prefer to have the skull still in
the high when you get it?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Okay, cool, awesome, Thanks Mari.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
The Bear Hunting Magazine hund Cast is recorded by Bear
Hunting Magazine and produced by Mountain Gravity Media. Be sure
leave us a five star review on iTunes and keep
guarding the gate
Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine Hunt Cast with me
Koby Morehead. We're gonna nerd out on bears hunting and
the outdoors. We'll tell stories, talk biology, tactics, gear, and
the fight to protect the pursuits that we hold dear, So,
grab your bino's, lace up your boots, load up your barrels,
and gather the hounds.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Sweet venture on this journey.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Together today on the podcast. Wait a minute, I'm so
excited about this episode that I forgot to say welcome
(00:50):
to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
But now that that's done.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
On this episode of the Bear Hunting Magazine Hunt Cast,
Large carnivore biologists, my Reman from the Arkansas Game and
Fish is back, and this time we're talking about something
else said he has done for thirty years, and that
is taxidermy. We hunters are a pretty sentimental bunch, and
(01:14):
I love preserving the memories of my hunt and try
to remember the animals the way that I saw them
out in a while. So today we're gonna talk about
how Maren got into taxidermy, some of his history. We're
gonna talk about some of the things that taxidermists do
that you might not know about. We're gonna talk about
hide care, and then we're also gonna talk about some
(01:38):
of the measurements that a taxidermists will take on a
black bear. And so I think you're gonna really enjoy
this one. And this is some really good information to
take away that seems it just feels very practical. Here's
Myron talking about his introduction into taxidermy, and I really
(01:58):
really know you're gonna like this one.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Done taxidermy for about thirty years, I had the opportunity
to learn from a guy that I worked with. He
was a really really accomplished taxidermy, a really good taxi dermist.
You know, he had one Master's division and a lot
of shows that he entered and everything, so and I
kind of wanted to learn it. I mean, I was
intrigued by it, of course, you know. And you know
(02:30):
at the time, you always look at a really lucrative
sideline that you can have and kind of have on
your own time working with any state or federal agency.
Most people want a sideline, you know, that provides some
extra funding. But I kind of got a fast track
from him into the world of tax dermy, and I
(02:53):
was able to learn from him and just kind of
went from there. And when I moved to Arkansas, of
course I had I'd worked with him for you know,
two or three years at that point, started doing my
own work, going to state shows and everything, and kind
of getting into the network in Arkansas and going to
shows and seminars and entering pieces and learning from you know,
(03:15):
your mistakes and everything. Kind of developed that into just
a really good business. I mean, I enjoy doing it.
I have scaled back a whole lot from what I
used to do. I still do, you know, a lot
of mammal work, deer and life sized mammals and all
that stuff every year. I really appreciate doing Bear. I mean,
(03:36):
I guess I'm involved with Bear from start to finish.
I just really enjoy doing bears. I like doing them.
I like being able to make a really, really good
looking end product with a bear.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So, typically that we would release these podcast episodes, we
would talk about Myron's history, who he is, what his
path has looked like, and then we would move into
a lot of the information that they have. We're doing
this kind of and reverse. So if you listen to
these first two podcasts with Myron about finding bears using
(04:19):
natural foods and then now taxidermy. You're really gonna appreciate
it whenever you hear his full story. But to give
a little context, now, Myron started out working for the
US Fish and Wildlife Service and who's based in Tulsa,
and that's where he learned taxidermy from a fellow employee
(04:40):
of the US Fishing Game there. Later he would move
back home to Arkansas and work for the Arkansas Game
and Fish Commission. Today, Myron manages the black bear research
here in Arkansas. So when he says that he's involved
with black bears from beginning to end, he truly does
(05:01):
cover the full gambit.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So it is kind of funny.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Black bears can be a difficult critter to capture inside
of the taxidermy world, to make them look real, to
make them really look the way that they did on
the pall. And there is another critter that is well
known to be difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Have you done any cats or I do.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I've done a lot of cats. You know, we say
in the taxidermy world, cats are kind of one of
them things that separate the men from the boys. Yes,
so to speak, you know, being able to do a
really really good cat with the I can't and you know,
and and anatomy and stuff like that. That's you know,
it's it's not something that everybody has the talent to do.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I got a Canadian Lynx a few years ago. Oh,
I've got it tanned, but I've been nervous to get
it tax dermy because I'm like an average taxidermist wouldn't
make this not such a great memory.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
You are right about that, all right.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
We're not ragging on taxidermists here, okay, but either you
or somebody you know has been burnt by a taxidermist
taken on a project that they weren't prepared for. And
it's difficult to do bears and cats if you haven't
been trained on them. So it's just a word of caution.
(06:34):
One thing I have learned is a guy can do
excellent white tailed deer mounts and not do a fantastic
job on a bear.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
And that's from personal experience.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So hopefully you'll have some good questions to ask after
this podcast is done.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So let's get back to it.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
You know, if most taxidermists are honest with themselves, you know,
and have a good eye with it, I mean you know,
if you're a cat person or not. You know, you know,
if you're a if you're a turkey person or not.
You know, and uh you know, I mean, uh, I'm
honest and I'll tell people, you know, if you want
me to mount a turkey, I know, I'm just I'm
(07:18):
just not a turkey person, you know. I mean, you
don't need me to mount a turkey for you. But yeah,
I mean, cats are It's one of those unique things.
It takes a certain eye for it. It takes it
just takes the knowledge of how to put it all
together to make a cat look right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I've seen that with bears though, too. Like bears that
seem to be really easy to mess.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Up, they are they are.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oftentimes you'll you'll see a bear that's done and it
won't represent the size that it truly was. Yeah, those
hides will shrink during the tanning process.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
They will shrink, but you know, with good rehydration and everything,
they'll stretch back out.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I talked to one tax dermis I know up in Maine,
and he was like, I can make it bigger than
it was.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
You can. He's definitely can say with deer.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So one of the things that's key and good tax
dermy work is the quality of the hide. So what
are your thoughts on hide care in the field.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, the key, the key thing with bears, especially you know,
doing bear work in Arkansas is the timing when most
bears are harvested. Typically, most bears are harvested in Arkansas
with archery equipment, which means it's going to be hot.
And so it's one of the big things that I
(08:38):
look for in doing any any type of bear mount,
whether it's a rug, whether it's a throw, just having
the hide tan for a throw, whether it's a backpack
mount or a life size mount. H it's I always
look for the quality of the hide that I get in.
(09:02):
And some of the biggest mistakes that I will see
people make with bears is leaving that bear too long
in the field. I didn't make a good shot. You know.
I'll have people say, well, I let it set. You know,
I left it overnight. They're hunting in the evening. I
left it overnight because I just would wasn't sure. Well,
(09:22):
if you do that in the early part of both
seasons and Arkansas, chances are by the time you get
to it, by the time you get it skinned or
whatever else that hide's going to be done, it's going
to be slipping. And a lot of times with bears, bears,
any type of predator, cats, coyotes, bears, any type of
(09:42):
predator like that. Yet a lot of times you can't
tell how bad it's going to be until after the
tanning process. The tanning process is what locks the hair
follicle into the hide. And if that follicle has degenerated
from back tiers and it's going to cause that hair
to fall out of that hair tract, it's gonna do
(10:06):
it during the tanning process, not the skinning process. The
tanning process. If someone brings me a bear, I'm gonna
quiz them pretty hard about how they have taken care
of that hide up to that point, you know. And
it even goes as far as how did you place
it in the freezer? If you left a bunch of
(10:27):
the fat on it when you skinned it. You on
a life sized mount and it's got three inches of
fat on it, and you rolled this two hundred pound
hide up and threw it in the freezer. The middle
of that thing isn't gonna get froze for four days.
And it's no different than sitting out under a cool
shed for four days. It's just sitting there, bacteria loading
(10:48):
up in the hair, and it's gonna cause it to slip,
especially if they rolled the face in first, because you know,
the face around the mouth, the face, the arm pace,
it's areas of any animal like that are going to
be the most prone to slip because those are the
areas that have the highest bacteria loads on a skin.
(11:13):
I'm always really careful because I mean, one thing I
don't want to do is to put several hours of
work into cleaning the hide, salting the hide, taking the
feed out, taking the head out, and doing all that,
and then I send it off to a tanner and
the hide is you know, I'm going to have slip
spots all over it. You're not going to be able
(11:33):
to put a product out. And that's a lot of
work that's just down the drain.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
So I'm usually really diligent about hunters, you know, about
quizzing them how they've cared for that hide prior to
me getting it.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I mean, that would be something that would be primarily
bear you know, questions, not as necessarily with deer or yeah, deer.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I mean yeah, deer. Yeah, it's the hide's a lot thinner.
They don't have as much fat, they don't have bacteria
loads like a bear does, and they can tolerate a
whole lot more mistreatment than a bear hide can. So yeah, deer,
just they're totally different.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
You know, we could talk about my bear from this
last year as far as hide care, and I'll put
myself on the chopping flot. But you're doing a rug
for me off of my big Arkansas bear from last year.
And we didn't have a way of weighing it. I'm
gonna say it was easily over four hundred, like it
was just yeah, it was. We couldn't hardly roll up
(12:36):
that thing over. So I shot the bear, went out
there and had a really great blood trail. Felt good
about the shot. I didn't want to pressure it just
in case. But what I did was I was carefully
like I saw the blood trail, and I was carefully
walking it slowly, like almost like I was stalking and
(12:57):
making sure that I was looking up ahead and everything.
I didn't give that bear too much time with all
the blood I was seeing, I was like, he's not
too far.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So I decided to back out.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
A little bit, because once I got to the point
where that blood quit pumping and it just got more sparse,
I was like, well, he's done up there somewhere, but
just in case, let me back up just a little bit.
And so we gave him probably another like I don't know,
twenty minutes or so, fifteen twenty minutes. And what I
did was I started looking with my eyes and started
(13:31):
trying to blood trail because I saw where he was
headed to, and so he had gone downhill, and so
I just walked the ridge and was looking and I
was looking for like a darker shadow because.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
There was a lot of trees.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
He had only gone probably probably sixty yards or so,
but part of that was him like rolling down, you know.
And so the only reason I was able to see
him from I jumped up on a rock I can
look down. The only reason I saw him was he
got caught by this probably like three inch tree sapling,
you know. But I mean we started on him within
(14:09):
an hour of Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Mean your hide turned out it was just his premium.
It was perfect, you know. Yeah, it's a really good
fresh hide and everything, and I mean, you know, by
the time I get them. I have to, like say,
I have to take the head out, usually the feet,
because it's easier for me to do it than to
have the customer. Most people aren't real familiar with doing
something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And you can do it the way that you prefer.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, I'll do it the way I prefer. I'll do it.
I'll you know, flesh the hide, get it ready for salt.
You have to remove every bit of the fat off
of them. You have to invert the eyes and the
lips and the ears and all that stuff. Regardless of
what you're gonna do. You have to do all that
stuff just to prep the cap.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Well, here's one of the things I was going to
say that I did that I think helped it instead
of throwing it in the freezer real quick that night.
I mean this was mid September.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It was hot.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Once we got that bear skinned out as long as
I could, like, I rolled it up to get it
up to the truck. But we got up to the
truck and I just tried to like lay it as
open as possible. I opened up the vents on the
on my bed cap to where some fresh air would
get in there. And when I got home, I went
and laid it fat up the bottom side of the
(15:24):
hide up over the back.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Of a trailer gate. Perfect and so.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
But one thing that I was noticing is as by
the time that I got up to the truck with
that hide, after even laying it out and keeping it
open from where we were skinning it, it was cool
to the touch.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Just from the night air.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And so I had another hunt coming up, like, I
didn't have time to really mess with it then, and
so I put it over that trailer and the next
morning I got up went and then I folded it
up and put it in the freezer, and I think
I left the paws hanging out of the high and
I left the the head on top. And basically my
(16:05):
thinking behind that is anything that that had any type
of i'm gonna call it insulation factors inside of that hide,
I wanted to make sure that it cooled as fast
as possible.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's perfect because the way that guys do it in
the West, they're hiking it out for miles. It might
even be laying out over a limb or something. Yeah,
but those hides are typically, from what I understand, pretty
good and okay because they got that initial heat off
(16:38):
of it. It's in the shade, it's getting air.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, and that's the real key. I mean, you know,
of course it's more arid environment out there as well,
but I mean doing what you did, you know, laying
that hide out fat side up and just allowing that
skin and fat to cool, allowing some of that moisture
to get out of it. I mean, you know, back
tier of breeds with damp moist environments. The dryer it is,
(17:04):
the less bacteria loads you're going to have, and it
just doesn't foster that bacteria setting up. And so yeah,
I mean that's not to say that you know, you
got to get out there in mid September and get
a and get a bear skinned and you know, all
the fat off and all that within a couple of hours,
But I mean you don't have a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean I probably shot this bear an hour
before the end of daylight, like he came in earlier
than expected, and I got home around two am, and
so that was quite a bit of time. I mean,
I'll tell you, by the time I got home that
night from skinning that bear out with my buddy, I
was questioning every life decision that I that I had
(17:48):
made What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Like I killed a big bear?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And it's like I was feeling so exhausted that I
was like questioning all my life decisions.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah. I have a friend of mine that harvested a
four thirty eight and I told him, I said, you know,
he's harvested a couple of bears before, but they're smaller bears.
And I said, you need to understand where you find
this one. That's where you're gonna skin it. Yeah, and
he did, and he was like, you say, he got
done at four am. You know, he recovered, he washed
(18:17):
it die at right before dark and here and he
got out of the woods at four am. But you
know he did everything right cape care and laid it out.
But you know, I would say, I would say, the
main thing, it's just you know, the main thing bear,
anything that has to do with bears, it's just be
(18:39):
as prepared as you can be prepared for success. You know,
don't let those animals lay out overnight with all the
muscle and introls and everything else in them. If it's
eighty degrees at night, don't let them lay there overnight,
because they're gonna be done meat's going to be done,
the hide is going to be done. There's just way
(19:00):
too much fat and way too much bile mask that's
just setting there generating heat, laying on the ground. Yeah,
and so but you know, once you get one skinned
out and everything, you don't have to you don't have
to be a professional flesher and everything. Just get lay
that hide out, get it cooled, leave the feet and
(19:20):
head in it. If if you need to go ahead
and remove a tooth, yeah, so you can submit that
with your with a tooth packet.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
But I've made that mistake every time when.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You when you fold it or when you put it
place it in the freezer. You know, make sure you
fold it, don't roll it especially don't roll it head inside. Yeah,
just fold it as few times as you can, lay
it in the flip freezer pretty flat to where the
head and and you have a lot of surface area
to freeze quickly.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And another thing about taxidermy, You know, I catch a
lot of people doing this, and like I said, I've
been doing it for thirty years and and uh, you know,
tax ermy is like anything else. You know, any trade
out there has you know, people that are really horrible
at it doing it, and people that are really good
at it doing it. But you know, tax dermy isn't
(20:18):
any different than any other trade. By and large, you
really kind of get what you pay for.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
You know, if you were to go and pick a taxidermist,
what kind of questions would you be asking?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
What would you be looking for?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I would ask for photos? Yeah, or references? You know,
have they ever done competition work? You know, and blah
blah blah and that sort of thing. I mean, doesn't
hurt to do a little bit of background.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
On them, yeah, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I mean if most taxidermists, I mean, if they've done
really nice work that they're proud of, they're going to
have photos of it, you know. Yeah, I took I
take a lot of photos of you know, my life
sized stuff that i'd done and put in you know,
different businesses and everything else like that, and you know,
(21:08):
just neat stuff that I like to do. I mean,
I take pictures of still most of my shoulder mount deer.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Do you still do any competitions or anything? No? No, no, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I do it for h I do it for dough,
not for show. Yeah, I mean I still do competition
quality work. But yeah, I don't chase ribbons anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
The last thing that I want to talk about is
how to skin your bear if you have the option, like,
how would you prefer a bear hydee skin that comes
into you for based upon the different types of amounts.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Man, Honestly, I mean if I was going to do
a full body mount, you know, on a on a bear,
I would much rather have a dorsal cut, you know,
from the back of the head down to the tail,
right straight down the spine. But that's not any way
the easiest way to skin a bear. That is a
very difficult way to skin a bear, but for a taxidermis,
(22:12):
I mean that's you know, that's four foot of sewing
as opposed to fifteen foot of sewing that I have
to do. But really, I mean, just day in day out,
the easiest way to skin a bear, and the way
to get them the cleanest and everything is just lay
them on their back and do a ventral cut, just
like you would if you were having a rug done.
The same cut will suffice with a half mount, same
(22:34):
cut will suffice with a backpack mount or a full
body mount. It just means I'm going to have to
do a lot of sewing for a full body, but
you know, lay them on their back, lay their back
feed out, lay their front feet out, and go from
basically the throat straight down the mid line of the
belly to the vent or just short of the vent
(22:57):
and then go off, you know, at the mid part
of the back legs, the mid part of the inner
thigh and go out and stay on the inside of
it and try to roll around to by the time, say,
by the time you got to the back foot, you
would be going down the back of the leg right
(23:18):
where the hair seam is. You're going to start off
in the middle, and when you get past the when
you get past the knee, you would kind of angle
towards the back of the hill and just leave it
at the back of the foot and then do the
same things on the front. You're going to start in
the center of the armpit and go straight out the
arms as if you would imagine going straight to the
(23:41):
middle of the pad. That's the cut you're gonna make.
And that's just the standard center. Yeah, standard way to
skin a bear. Just lay it out and just try
to get as much fat off as you can.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
You know, Yeah, I got a really pretty cinnamon bear
that had a big, you know, chest patch of white.
They went down with that. When what we did we
did that ventral cut like you were talking about, but
then we tube skinned it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
The outfitter I was with does does it that way anyways?
Oh yeah, but he's because he just was given the
tax nunverers the option with that one. It's like, let's
protect this white as much as possible, because.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
It's like, yeah, I had an incredible blaze on it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
When I first saw that bear, I didn't know where
it stopped. It looked like that chest patch never never
would stop.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
So but I mean, just a standard cut, that's that's
gonna work for just about anything. You know. Of course,
if I was doing a competition bear mount or something
like that, Yeah, I'd never skinned one with twelve feet
of seam to cover up you know, it'd be a
dorsal cut. Yeah, and it'd be a very short dorsal cut.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, like the first bear that I ever had mounted.
The guy after the fact that it was clear that
he didn't do black bears. I mean I think he didn't.
Like you were talking about hydrate the skin and you
can run your finger down that scene and it's just
like the nastiest so job. Anyways, you can run your
(25:11):
finger down it and you feel like you're running down
like the.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Ribs of a road or something.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You know, it's definitely not the size bear, because you
know that first bear I killed, I wrote an article
about it, and Clay put my picture on the cover.
That was a surprise. It just showed up in the mailbox.
I was like, oh, that looks familiar. But he was
clearly very chesty. He had those stove pipe legs like
(25:36):
he was like you talked, you've talked about. He was
just a huge specimen. I mean, this was a three
point fifty plus bear. And when I got it back,
I was like, I feel like it looks good, but
I feel like that bear was bigger than that. And
so sometimes I'll keep that photo on my phone and
somebody looks at that mountain like, hey, just let you
(25:57):
know he was bigger than that, and then show them.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, and uh well, you know, I mean, uh well,
that's another thing. I mean with keeping the head or
the whole head intact and without skinning that, it allows
the tax of dermis to take some pretty key head measurements.
Which really are the most critical measurements when you're buying
a bear form. I mean, one thing you don't want
to do is buy the wrong size bear form. And
(26:24):
I mean bear forms are expensive, very expensive, several hundred
dollars or some of them, you know, some of the
really big ones cost the grand and uh, so you
know you want to you want to make sure you
have all the measurements, the right measurements, and be able
to order a form appropriate for the for that bear.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So, yeah, what measurements are really important whenever you're like,
that's the head.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
What other measurements are you taking?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
The eye to nose And it's measurement from the front
corner of the eye to the nose. Uh, that's the
critical measurement, from the tip of the nose across the
back to the tip of the tail. The total length,
that's a critical measurement. And the girth at the mid
part of the belly, not under the arms, but at
the heaviest part mid section of the body. Those are
(27:15):
the three measurements you need and you can make them
before you skin it. You just has to let your
taxidermists know because the total length isn't going to be
any different, but the girth will be. But you know,
as long as you have iron nose, total length and girth, yeah,
you ought to be able to order a perfect size
(27:36):
form for it. If there's enough variability out there in
bear forms.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That would that be important on a shoulder mount too, Yes, okay,
so guys need to give a little bit of extra
to make sure they go past that midpoint if they
cut the bottom.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, but I mean, you know, if you're doing a
half life size or something like that, the real critical
is the iron nose and if they've still got the
head in it when the taxidermist gets it, you know,
that's that's gonna be. And he ought to be able
to determine, you know how it is that's a really
big five inch bear. It's just an average five inch bear,
five inch being out of those measurement you know.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
So would you prefer to have the skull still in
the high when you get it?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Okay, cool, awesome, Thanks Mari.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
The Bear Hunting Magazine hund Cast is recorded by Bear
Hunting Magazine and produced by Mountain Gravity Media. Be sure
leave us a five star review on iTunes and keep
guarding the gate
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