April 11, 2025 • 47 mins
Darren & Dub sit down with former Kentucky Baseball Head Coach Keith Madison. They talk all things Baseball and catch up with Coach Madison about his newly released book!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I think I think we've already spoke a little
bit about the full pen this year, and they got
the same DNA.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Type Robert Hogan's back. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I can't wait to see Simon Gregorson out there because
he was lights out for Indiana State against Kentucky last
year in the regional.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
You know, you hear you hear these old timers like
me talk about, Man, if I'd have had that slider,
if I'd had hogan slider, I promise you I would
have been pitching for the Big Red.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
To watch he can't to watch.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
And I hear my little you know, I usually have
have kind of that that coach's voice, but it got.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sort of squeaky it then it's like I'm just filled
with emotion.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Uh. That's one of my favorite things about Mitchell Daily's
home run. While I'm calling it, we just hear you
go yes in the background.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What a mon.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And Welcome back everybody. Another edition of Behind Kentucky Baseball.
We are presented by American Trust Wealth, a Kentucky proud
wealth services firm offering financial planning and investment management for
over forty years. Find out more at American Trustwealth dot com.
I'm Darren Hedrick again joined by my co host Darren Williams.
(01:23):
Dub and in the middle, we have got let's I
can introduce you like the Chicago Bulls. The man in
the middle. He is a Hall of Famer and the
winning this baseball coach at Kentucky. Keith Madison joining us
this week on the show. He's also my broadcast partner
last year on the road to Omaha.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Coach. Great to see you, buddy, Good to see you,
Darren and Darren Darren brother Darren. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
How you been man, What you been up to in
the off season. Oh, it's been great. I just got
back a few days ago from Washington, d C. Where
we had the American Baseball Coaches Association Convention and Clinic.
I serve on the board of that great organization, and uh,
it was a lot of fun. I get to see
a lot of old buddies. There's several guys on the
(02:11):
board that I competed against. So we get to tell
a war stories and hopefully influence the n C double
A to make college baseball a little better.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, coaching never stops. Coaches going No, we got to
make it better.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I was going to ask you how you're enjoying retirement.
But it doesn't sound like you're retired.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
No, No, I'm still doing I'm still doing a lot
of stuff with Score International. Went on a mission trip
back in November. Took took some guys with me, and
we you know, down there, we conduct free baseball clinics
for thousands of Dominican young Dominican baseball players. Just tremendous
(02:51):
kids with high energy and a thirst for knowledge for
in baseball.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So it's it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And then so I'm doing that and and and then,
like I.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Said, I serve on the board of the ABC A.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Uh, you know, I'm not sure we'll talk about this,
but I just released a book which has really been
fun and really keeping me going. And then hang out
with Sharon. We went to the basketball game last night.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I don't know, I don't know when this is going
to air, but we went to the basketball game and
had a blast.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Kentucky just beat Texas A and M. For those that
might be listening down the road, so yeah, you'd win.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
You liked watching them refs.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Oh my goodness that I didn't enjoy wather basketball game.
That was a ref show.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the goltending where the gay goes
two feet above the rim inside the rim and they
don't call.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Golden any Yeah. But anyway, hey, we won. That's all
the matters of the day, all the matters.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I gotta dive into that first comment, what would you
change about college baseball?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
I'd love to pick your brain on that.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Some of the things I probably should not share then
don't on the podcast.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
But what can you share?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yeah, you know, I think umpiring, believe it or not,
umpiring has gotten a lot better, uh, in the last
twenty five thirty years, that track, Yeah, and that has
helped big time. And also, you know, I think the
the n C DOUAA has gotten serious about having training
(04:24):
for umpires and making them better. A lot of those guys,
as you guys know, they're you know, they go to
umpire schools. They some of them have hopes of being
becoming major league umpires, just like you know we had
hopes of becoming a major league pitcher, of course. But
so yeah, I want to continue that getting better. I'm
a little concerned, you know, like a lot of people
(04:47):
about the transfer portal, the nil situation, but I think
the Cats out of the bag. You know, it's it's
not it's not going to change a whole lot. And
I'm one of those people. I clearly see both sides,
you know, especially in a contact sport like football, where
(05:08):
these cats go out and and risks actually risk their
lives and their health.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Oh yeah, for their school, for their team.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Their coaches are making millions of dollars and they're just
getting beat up every soy. Sure, they love the game,
they love playing, but I see that, you know, and
I see how from firsthand experience, how hard baseball players work.
A lot of people don't understand the time commitment that's involved.
And of course w know it, you know, well, yeah,
(05:36):
I mean it's weightlifting, it's tutoring, it's traveling, it's all
these things.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And it's a full time job based classes, classes on
the road.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
If you add classes to it, it's a full time job,
if not more so. I get that part of it,
But I think there needs to be some structure, and
I don't know who's going to implement that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
College game Day for football is talked about Nick Saban
a lot being the College Football.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Commissioner commissioner, you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Know, I thought about coach Keith Madison. Then why not,
let's go on. I thought about getting it. We'll start
the campaign.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I thought about getting a petition Nick Saban for president. Yeah,
I mean it would be good.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The guy's a leader.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Yeah, I mean he's great. He's great. Glad to hear
you've had a good off season.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, it's been good, man, And I cannot wait until
we get back up into booth and watching some ball
and start helping the umpires call balls and stri I
tell you, it's amazing what an eye Darren Hedrick has.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I mean, he's good, but if the umpire calls that's wrong,
he's Oh he's on. It's like that ball was three
inches outside.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Yeah, he's been doing this out.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And we're forty yards away. It's man, you're good. I'm
telling you. You got that Davy Crockett eye.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
It's like fifteen No, it's been eighteen years of watching
baseball from that petrum in the air.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Of course not but and I like that little bit
that the get on the outside. I don't think they
get that enough though. I don't either. I think it's
gotten tight, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, I'll tell you this from experience. When I pitched
the KU we didn't have track man. This was back
in the day before everybody that track man, and that
zone was a little wider.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
And then I got here and that thing shrunk a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, and no doubt, I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
We can dive into that as a part of a coach,
I guess to segue, when you have a tight strike
zone like that, how much did you used to emphasize
and still do like you have to work through the
middle of the zone to start, Like, you've got to
go throw quality pitches in the zone that can get
guys out.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No doubt. If you don't have good stuff with the
tight zone, you're in trouble. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
And another thing you have to do is you have
to be very aggressive inside. You have to make that
strike zone bigger.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah. And to do that, and the way to do
that is, you know, is to run that ball up.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And end scared hit people. No, no, I mean, you're
going to hit a few guys, it's part of the game.
But you've got to get him off the plate because
all of a sudden, if you don't get him off
the plate.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That plate gets wider.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And so if you've got good stuff and you're not
afraid to pitch in. You can be very productive as
a pitcher with a tight zone, but let's face it,
all of us like that that wide zone.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I don't you know.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
The thing that's changed a lot, Darren is is the
height of the zone.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, you know that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's when I see when I see pitches call for
strike at the letters.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's shocking to me because we never got that pitch.
You know why.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's because pitchers have had to adapt because of the
launch angle that hitters use. Now, if you climb, if
you can execute the pitch at the upper part of
the zone, you're gonna get swings and missus or pop ups.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, Tyler, I was just thinking to him, he was
the master.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
At that he had then and those guys have to
have that top third of the zone and they're getting
it now.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
He had that fastball that just had had the spin
rate and it looked like it was rising.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I know it it isn't, but it looked that way. Yeah, yeah,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
We're joined by Coach Madison on this week's edition of
Behind Kentucky Baseball, and I want to go back to
real quick Omaha last year and you've been around this
program you are so this program.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And you are basically the same.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
You've been a part of it and you've built it,
and you had great seasons here at Kentucky. What was
it like last year just being around the program, being
part of the program, finally seeing University of Kentucky get
to the College World Series?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Where I thought about that a lot, and and the
word that keeps coming back to me is rewarding.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It's and not only for me, but the fans. You know,
we have some.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
True blue Wildcat baseball fans that I mean, there's guys
that have season tickets now that had season tickets when
I coached. And to see them be rewarded with that
trip to Omaha and to see how coach Menngione put
together that team and just really worked very.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Hard on the culture of the program and the team.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And excuse me, it was very rewarding for me to
watch all that from a short distance.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You know. I mean, coach Man just so good.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
He always wants me to come in the dugout before
the game or during practice, and he wants me to
be a part of it. And as a former coach,
you know, you're always like, Man, I don't want to
get away or you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But he is so good with that.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
He wants everybody to feel like a part of the
program that he is built here.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And that's special. That's very special.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I mean we got out on the field after the
dogpile and Church Madison couldn't stop smiling.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
It was like, you know, it's sort of like that
fifteen year old boy that gets invited to prom. Yeah,
it all looks really good, but I don't know what
to do.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I mean, you talk a little bit about like that.
You see the dog pile.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Going on, and just the fans going nuts, and eight
nine thousand people just packed into a brand park going nuts.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
That was so much fun and and and you know, immediately,
not world, not immediately, but pretty soon after I got
down there and after I saw the dog pile, former
players started coming up to me. Yeah, you know, Scott Downs,
Greg Stevens, Jim Murphy, all these guys they started coming
around and coach, isn't this awesome? And so they were
(11:54):
celebrating with the team because doub you know, having played
here once, you're part of that family, you're always a
part of that family.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
It was really weird.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Not being on the field for opening Day last year,
and obviously, you know, it's opening Day, and I'm tuned in.
Obviously we do a well around the program, but I mean,
fifty years from now when opening Day comes around, I'm
going to be tuned in, like, yeah, let's go boys, let's.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Play some ball.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
You know. Yeah, it's really exciting. And I know they
had a lot of.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Support from the former players, former coaches, just everybody in
the community because that was truly the first time that's
ever happened.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I mean, it was a really special moment. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Yeah, we got close a few times and uh, but
you know, to see it actually happen, and then and
then for coach Minngion and his staff to invite me
and you know, Doug Flann to go out with them,
that was really special. It made me feel even more
a part of it. And we just had so much
(12:53):
fun out there.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Man. I had so much fun calling games with Big D.
And I listened to it.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah, I listened to some of those things that are
posted on h on Instagram and and and that call
and and I hear my little you know, I usually
have have kind of that that coach's voice, but it got.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Sort of squeaky at the end. It's like, I'm just
filled with emotion. Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
That's one of my favorite things about Mitchell Daily's home run.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
While I'm calling it, we just hear you go yes
in the background. What a mom man.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I tell you, If that kid walks in the door
right now, I'm giving him a big old hug.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I didn't think there was anything that could top the
moment that Johnny Hummel struck out the final batter to
send this team to the College World Series until Mitchell
Daily hit the walk off home run in the first game.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And I'm like, that actually topped the other moment.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
And you know, Hummel had that horrendous game and I
know we shouldn't even talk about it or remember it,
but it was just a horrible game. I think it
was South Carolina, you know, and and.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Boy wit relief. I pitched to relieve. And sometimes that's
part of the game. It's part of the game, but
sometimes guys will let it get in their heads and
it lingers into two three weeks yeah, yeah, months, yeah,
and poor to see him come out and do that.
He was nails for us in that postseason run.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
A really good post.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It shows you what a heart he is.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, and I think I think we've already spoke a
little bit about the bullpen this year. I mean they
got the same DNA type.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Robert Hogan's back.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, I can't wait to see Simon Gregorson out there
because he was lights out for Indiana State against Kentucky
last year in the regional.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
You know, you hear you hear these old timers like
me talk about Man, if I'd have had that slider,
if I'd have had hogan slider, I promise you I
would have been pitching for the big Red's to watch.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
He can't fun to watch? Uh uh do shortstop this year?
Tyler Bell replacing, He's got some big shoes to fill now.
With Grant Smith and some of the plays he made.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, you know how I feel about Grant Smith and
that game. It's so steady. You don't see shortstops at
the college level that steady.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You just don't. You don't see.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I mean, you see great athletes that make great plays,
and then you see some that make most of the
routine plays. But you don't see people that make all
the routine plays and then make them hurt.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, yep, and keeps going, keeps making the routing play.
I mean, fun to pitch for that guy behind.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
You, and I think, yeah, a lot of people forget
how hurt he was at the College World Series.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
There were a few injuries.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, yeah, you know, Dub.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
On the last podcast, you and I talked about how
Kentucky has turned into shortstop you. But one thing we
left out is the blessings at first base that Kentucky
has had the last two years Hunter Gillim the captain,
and then last year Ryan Nicholson, who tied the home
run record. This team doesn't have the success that's had
without those guys at first base, and they played terrific
defense on top of that.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Yeah, somebody that can pick it.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Yeah boy, that's that's one of the most underrated things
in baseball. I think you don't appreciate a good first
basement until you don't have one.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Not lying, you are not lying speaking speaking of the.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Choir on shortstop can make a great throw, he's gotta
have somebody to receive it.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I think that just goes into how hard our coaching
staff coaches these guys, Like I know, a lot the
fans don't get to see practice on a day that
there is no inner squad, but the defensive work that
these guys go out and do for hours at a
time on that turf. Yeah, and pick plays, making the
(16:32):
routine play at first base, catching pop ups at first base,
communication at first base, backing up throws at first base,
Like every little detail they cover so intently, and it
shows off when you make a postseason run, because you've
got to have a high level of defense. I wanted
to I want to circle back a little bit what
Darren mentioned there before and get a little coaches mindset
(16:56):
from you. You know, I'm a high school coach at
Sarah High School here in so maybe you can help
me out with this a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Shout out, shout out.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
You got a really talented freshman shortstop type can contend
for that been drafted high prospect. How do you handle
that as a coach when maybe your most talented player
is a freshman. How do you handle that to cultivate
that guy into being the type of guy he needs.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
To be for the team.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Well, this is going to sound so overly simplistic, but
I think its key is that you believe in him,
because a freshman, no matter how talented that freshman is.
All of a sudden, he's thrown into a situation where
he's competing with and against men, Yeah, grown men, four
(17:45):
year olds, And so the confidence part can get destroyed
quickly if you don't constantly belief in that kid. I
had a young shortstop when you're at Tennessee, made three
errors in win inning, and it was it was tough.
It was so bad. But when he came in the dugout,
(18:06):
I said, you're my shortstop. You've had a bad night,
but we play tomorrow. You're gonna be my shortstop, So
get it behind you. My mother used to say, she's
ninety six. Now she still says. Sometimes she'll say, lecky,
bad wound, and get over it, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
And so and it's coming for everybody.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, everybody's freshman. Yeah, everybody's going to get wounded a
little bit. And you just got to get over it.
And and and that's harder for some people to learn
than others. The talent surely helps, yeah, because all it
takes is another big play for you to get over
that and and get going.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
It's interesting because every time somebody would come into the
game for Kentucky, brand new whether it was due to
injury or they just wanted to sub in. Somebody knew
the first ball off the bat was hit right out
of the ball every time. I remember several games where
Patrick Herrera would come into the lineup or Eli Small
would pinch hit, and they would keep him in the
game but put him maybe at a position he's still learning.
(19:08):
First one would be a rocket right at him every time,
and they made the plays, but it was every time.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
It's like the Murphy's lall baseball. I don't know what
it's called, but it happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Oh yeah, that's another name that we haven't spoke too much,
and we need to have a conversation with.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
Old Patty Herrera.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, Patty Picks.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Patty Picks a guy who transferred in, had a really
big year freshman year at Northwestern, came in as a sophomore,
has waited his turn, waited his turn, and now year
four comes around. He's done some really good things in
year two and three. Your four comes around and he
looks like an every day player he's was about in
four or five and the inner squads, he's taken big sistence, consistent,
(19:47):
big steps forward, played o Maha. He's played in the Regional,
he played in the Super He's been there, done that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
How big is that?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
You know, to have a guy that's you know, not
the starter through all those but has been here and
now he's gonna to get his chance to be the guy.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Well, dub, as you were talking about that, I immediately
thought of Mitch Daily. Mitch Daily had played in the
College Rural Series as far as I know, the only
gown the team that had played in the College Rural Series,
and he delivered big.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It makes a difference.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
And so the experience that Patrick has gotten is going
to pay great dividends.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I expect him to be, you know, one of the.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
One of the outstanding players in the league because because
of his experience, and he's a skilled.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Player, yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
He's got great strikes one discipline too. He draws a
lot of walks. He figures out a way to get
on base.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
And coach knows, I mean, like that get you so angry.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
I love facing the free swingers. Yeah you know that
that tried to lift all the time. I mean those
people have holes in her swing. Yeah, guys like Herrera
don't have many holes in her swing. And they're going
to lay off that pitch that's just you know, four
inches and or four inches out.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And another guy who's had a lot of success and
inner squads in the fall, in the spring so far,
so be interesting to watch. I'm excited for him. He's
a he's a great dude, and I know he's a
great locker room presence personality. So I'm excited to see
old Patty go to work this year.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I hope he's listening to this, because the guy's listened,
so he probably don't.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I believe in him. You believe in him.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
You believe in him, and so that's a big part
of it. It's one thing to believe in yourself, but
when you get a people around you, like his teammates,
his coaches, you know, insignificant people like us who sit
up in the press box. You get everybody believing in you,
it makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
The only time I don't believe in him is when
I'm on the mound against the former teammate. Let's go, Yeah,
you know, I got it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Oh. I love that he still has his swag about him.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yah, you want to win, I'd go out and throw
eighty two.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
You're a competitor you want to win.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Every time we're chatting with coach Madison here on behind
Kentucky Baseball, I want to talk to you a little
bit about the league this year and what Kentucky's going
to be facing entering the spring. Obviously, the Cats have
brought in a top ten transfer class. They brought in
a really good freshman class, highlighted by Tyler Bell, so
they're ready to go even though it's a brand new team.
But you add Texas and Oklahoma. Coach, it was really
(22:24):
weird when the SEC schedule came out and I'm looking
and there's no Florida on there, but there's Oklahoma and Texas.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's both on there. It's crazy. It's got to be
the first time ever that no we ever played Florida.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
That rivalry is going to be weird not to see
I always see them in the Hoover, I really do.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
South Carolina and Vanderbilt under the current structure are going
to be the yearly opponents. Everybody else rotates, but they
do go to Tennessee this year.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
But it's going to be weird.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Like you all say that, there's going to be seasons
where Florida and Tennessee are not on that schedule.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's strange, especially Florida and Tennessee.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
I mean, those are the two teams that when I
think of rivals, battles for the division, you.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Know, all of those things.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I remember, I think it was two out of three
of my first years here we finished second in the
division behind Florida. That was like, I want to get
those guys, you know, I want to get them.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So we'll see how that works out.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
But uh, you know, Oklahoma has a proud baseball program.
They've won a national championship or two. Texas obviously, Yeah,
and both those states have great high school baseball in
the states warm. Yeah, it's warm where they recruit. So
you know, it's those are tough opponents for Kentucky, but
(23:44):
we've played a lot of tough opponents before, right.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And they're both at home this year.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, So, uh, start on the road at Georgia and
then there's Old Miss on the schedule, and you've got
a trip to Texas, A and M. So it's a
it's an interesting schedule and I kind of like where
it's a little bit of new even though it's familiar
opponents because you don't have those yearly rivalries anymore.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. But and you guys are well
aware of this. When you walk down on that field
around SEC baseball players guys.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Are massive now yeah, not football players, yeah, grown adult men. Yeah.
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
There's a few, you know that aren't that big, but man,
most of them.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You know. You walk up next to Ryan Nicholson, big boy,
big boy.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, you know, and when he squared went up, you
pretty well knew it was gone.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Fun, fun to watch him swing.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
The oh I love watching him swing. I'm gonna miss him.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
One of one of the things coach Minch would always
say back when I was playing, is, uh, let's keep
our few where our feet are, you know, let's focus
on today.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So forget the SEC schedule for a minute.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Coach.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I want to get back to that coach's mindset because
it's January currently and it's such a weird time to
be a a in coachmingja's shoes.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, because you know.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
You're not in team practice yet, you're not playing games yet,
you're not playing full inner squads yet maybe to do
some live abs, and your pitchers aren't exactly where they're
gonna be, you know, their hitters aren't where they're gonna be.
How much is it like, Okay, I want you to
do great in practice, but I kind of want you
to fail in practice and make sure like I got
(25:25):
room to grow before the season starts, before SEC play
gets here, before the regional gets here.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
It's it's uh, that is a great observation on your part, Dub,
because looking back when I was going through that, it
was it was almost like the season seems so far
oh way, you know, it couldn't get here soon enough.
That anticipation tells you, yeah, you just want so badly
(25:51):
to get there and compete. But then the other part
of my coaching mind was like, gosh, we need all
that because we're not ready yet.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
We got to get prepared.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
But I will say this, I was with Coachminge and
the entire staff Monday morning, and it was the most
relaxed I've seen those guys since after the College World
Series last year.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Yeah, they were all in a great frame of mind.
They were you know, they seemed like they were ready
to go, but they also accepted the fact that they've got.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
A way to go. That they you know, they're not
quite there yet.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
But I think they made so much progress in the fall.
It started off. I think they were a little concerned
about certain areas.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That's what happens when you bring thirty new guys, no doubt,
no doubt.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
And then but you know, at the end of the fall,
I said, hey, you know, these guys accomplished quite a bit.
And it's a lot to get your head around when
you bring in thirty new guys and you're trying to
get them to play and be a team. That's a
short amount of time to get that done.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And then you've.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Got you know, the postfall, the weightlifting, the individual workouts
and all those things that helps that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
And you know how it is.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I mean, guys get to know each other, of course,
and it takes a little while before you get to
that point where hey, you can rip each other a
little bit and laugh about it. And I think those
guys are getting there now. So it'll be interesting to see,
because I've told everybody one of the most impressive things
I've seen in college baseball in a long time is
(27:36):
the way Coachminge took that group of guys that were
a lot of you guys last year. He took them
and molded them into.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
A tight nit family. And so if he can do
it with that group, he can.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Do it with this group, even if they were weird.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah they were weird, but we're all kind of weird, right.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
That's the other fun thing too, is year the year,
No team is the same personalities year to year of
each team. Last year it was the get weird stuff
with the pink caps and everything. Curious to see what
this year's personality is.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Like, yeah, boy, you're right about that. Every team does
have that unique personality. And you know, last year's team
knew how to turn on the weirdness when they needed
to and then lock it in. That team was a
bunch of killers, no doubt. Let's be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Like, if you gave that team something, they ran with it, right.
And there's the fifth inning, you bring in your first
reliever and that guy ain't rolling. The game is over
because we just scored five quick.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
There were so many big hits, big pitches, big plays
in the outfield and infield with that team last year.
They were all wanting to make the big play. And
there's you know, for those people listening that maybe haven't
played a high level baseball, there are guys out there
that don't want the ball hit too oh yeah, and
(29:00):
they want.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
To pressure situations. They will be in the batter's box
they want to be. They want to hit, but don't.
Don't hit the ball to me right now. Hit it
to the hit it to somebody else, hit the grand Smith.
But last year, I think every one of those guys
wanted to ball hit to them. Now.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah, they made some outstanding plays. I mean we could
sit here the rest of the afternoon and talk about.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
But Coach, I wanted to talk to you about a
little project you've had in the off season launching. You've
been on a book tour recently and your new book
that's out, Coaching with Purpose by coach Keith Madison.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Put that up for our cameras to see.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Uh, tell me a little bit about the book and
the inspiration for writing it.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Well, Uh, if I could be totally transparent, I when
I when I first started writing that book, it was
going to be more of a devotional book. It was
going to be a faith driven book. And it still
is to a to a small extent.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Uh. But as I started really thinking about the.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Stories and the experiences I've had as a coach. I
started thinking, well, you know, my audience is hopefully going
to be coaches from all levels, high school, college, whatever,
and also coaches at different ages, Like there's going to
be some young coach like coaches like dub that will
(30:18):
read this and maybe they'll pick up one nugget or
two that will help them be a better coach. Or
maybe it's an older guy that says, you know, it's
not too late for me to change this or that.
Like I talk a lot about connecting with the players,
and I talk a lot about communication.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I talk a lot about what.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I mentioned earlier, believing, because the coaches that got the
most out of me were the ones that believed in me,
and you know, and also talk about, hey, you know,
there's more than one way to skin a cat. You
as you come through baseball, you play for a lot
of different coaches and basketball and football, Like my basket
(31:00):
ball coach in high school was tough, tough, tough on me,
and I probably didn't appreciate it at the time, but
I'm probably a little bit stronger now because of that toughness.
My high school coach was a quiet encourager and he
really really believed in me. And I knew it and
(31:21):
he got a lot out of me too. So there's
a lot of different ways to coach, but I just
share some things, and the transparent part is I share
some mistakes I made. You know, I wish I had
done it this way, And I mean I look at
some of the things just to be honest with you,
that coach Men's does. And also Dan, you know, the
(31:41):
pitching guy. I mean, I think kind of wish.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That I'd have done it that way. You know, we're
always learning.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
If you're not a lifetime learner, you probably should do
something else because coaching in any sport you have to
be a lifetime learner. And that's what the book's about.
It's about, you know, it's not too late to learn.
It's not if you're doing something that that maybe is
not helping you connect with the players, it's not too
late to change that, because connecting is what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I'd imagine there's more than just coaching in there. I'd
say it's a lot of life lessons. I'm excited to
read it. I appreciate you bringing me a copy of
absolutely How important is it for you to as a
coach to hire assistants that are different than you, Right,
because coach Rozelle, Coach Kuzy, Coach Sloan don't have the
same personality coach Minch does.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
They all coach guys a different way. I know the
strength coach Coach d and coach Jones have totally different
right personalities than coach Minch, you know, And it's important.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
I believe in my journey as a.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Player to have different coaches with different personalities to mold
you into the player that you need to be to
be successful. How much, how old once should that go
into your process and hire an assistance.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Well, I think it's a great point. I think it's
a valid point. Like I was talking to C. M.
Newton once, he was my athletic director at the time,
and I was getting getting ready to make a assistant
coaching hire and he said, he said, hey, take advantage
of your assistant coaches. And I said, what do you mean.
He said, I'm not talking about overworking them. I'm talking
(33:11):
about learn from them. He said he coached, He coached
basketball at Transylvania, Alabama, Vanderbilt, and he.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Was very successful.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
And he said every assistant coach I hired, I learned
something from him. And if you're not learning from your assistants,
you need to get another assistantstance.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, so you know that's part of it.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
And then as as far as you know the strengths
and weaknesses of you know, it's like, you know, when
I first started coaching Kentucky, I connected really well with
the players, and I was a good pitching guy. I
needed an assistant coach that was a good hitting, base
running guy. I needed an assistant coach that was more
(33:50):
organized than me, because I'm I'm I can be the
absent minded professor. Sometimes I get so many things going
in my head, you know, and D knows this.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
I leave my glasses in the press bar, I leave
my notebook in the press. I need somebody around me
that is organized, and if that comes easier for some
for certain people than others. So I always wanted to
surround myself with people that were organized, that had skills
that were higher than mine, especially when it came to uh,
(34:22):
you know, base running hitting. I mean I got two
hits in five years of myron leagues.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
We still hit. You know what hitter is going to
listen to me? I know how to get hitters out get.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
A head coaching job somewhere you don't want to learn.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
But that circles back to to how important is it
to trust your assistance and let them do their job.
If you're like in football, you're the offensive coordinator, or
in you become a head coach, you've obviously got to
go out and hire a defensive coordinator and you trust
that he's going to run his unit the way he needs.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
To run it. That is exactly right. You know.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
You you want to be able to trust that guy
and know that he's going to teach skills that you
know something.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But sure, we know a little bit about hitting. We've
been around the game.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
All our lives, but I don't know as much about
hitting as you know Todd Williams or you know, Nick
Ameeratti or some of these guys that that's their I mean,
that is their thing. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's
it's what they do. So surround yourself with good people.
You don't uh, I can't remember which leadership grew said this,
(35:27):
but if you're the smartest person in the room, you
need to get in another room.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
It's if you if you have that kind of attitude,
you're never gonna You might be a good coach, but
your your program isn't going to excel like it could
if you surround yourself with great people. And I think
Mene has done a great job with that. He's got
he's got stellar assistant coaches.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
But yeah, it's uh, you know, it's it's a something
that some leaders don't want to be transparent about or
don't want to accept it or admit it.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
But we need help, you know.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
It's it's always a team thing and no matter what
business you're in.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
And I think this book that.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
That I just released on December second, I think it's
also appropriate for leaders in business because it talks about
communication and connecting and getting you know, if you've heard
just saying too, you know, if I hire somebody smarter
than me, that I'm smarter than them. And it's that
(36:32):
kind of attitude. You want to bring the best people.
You want to surround yourself with the best people as
you can and get your ego out of the way
and and let your assistant coaches say, coach, you know,
why don't you look at it this way?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
And then accept that and try it.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Speaking of an assistant coach, you've met old coach Sloan
a few times.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Oh yeah, now, yes, So take us.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
In a little bit into his mindset. We'll get him
on here eventually. What's all coach Sloan's mindset? What's the
Coach Slan Kentucky offense. Yeah, you're going to look like
give us a little preview.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I'm going to tell you that. When have you met
him yet?
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Okay, So there's more there than what you see. He
is a very sharp, offensive guy and he you know,
I don't know what because I was an old guy
or what, but when I first met.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Him, he was very quiet, very quiet. He didn't say much.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
And I've been around him, I don't know, eight or
ten times now, and I'm beginning to see that coaching
mentality more and more. As a matter of fact, Friday
morning at the Kentucky High School Baseball Coaches Association clinic,
that's a mouthful. Yeah, I get to introduce Chase and
(37:44):
I'm looking forward to that. But I learned a little
bit about him actually before he came here. One of
the guys he used to work with, Nate Metzger, is
good friends with Chase, and as soon as men hired.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Him, he called me up. He said, Hey, you can't
tell anybody.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
This, but Chase is going to be, you know, the
hitting guy Kentucky. And I said, tell me about him.
He said, all I got to say is you're going
to love.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Him, and the fans are going to love We've heard
good things and coach Man is going to love him.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
So he I can tell just but being around him
that he's a team player. We're going to you know,
I think we're going to continue with putting pressure on defense.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I think we're going to continue with being disciplined at
the plate. I think we're going to continue a lot
of things that that we've done the last couple of
years that have been successful.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
But also.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I think you're going to see some aggressive offensive play.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, that's what it's got to be play. I mean
with the ballpark structure of the way it is. And
we've had this conversation for the difference between KPP and
the Cliff, like.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Oh my goodness, you got to play different.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
It's you got to play different.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
And I think Men's was so smart to recognize that
and recruit to it. You know, you, uh, if you
play in a big ballpark like Kentucky Proud Park, you
better have.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Some speed in the outfield and there you go.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Was we used to be able to hide players in
right field as the cliff you know, you can't do
it anymore. And like I would hide a player in
right field and then on the road, then on the
road d h M or put him in left. Well, now,
I mean everybody out there has got to be mobile. Yeah,
you got to have a good arm. And so it's uh,
And I think ninge uh and his staff they do
(39:31):
a good job of recruiting.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
To that, no, no question, And I can't wait to
see is. I know they're going to stay with what
has brought this program to where it is. They're going
to stay with their philosophy and within their system. But
with Kuzzano and Sloan kind of running things, how does
that evolve into things that they like to do, little
wrinkles that they might add into an approach.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Yeah, I think you're going to see it, you know,
I think, uh, you know kuzzno Is he's a force.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I mean yeah, twenty thirteen. Yeah, I've seen some highlights.
Dude was aggressive, oh my good, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
And he is.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
First of all, he's a fun guy to be around.
But He's also a guy that players respect because he
talks to them at their level. He knows how to
do that. So I think I think Koozi and uh
and coach Loan are going to work really well.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Again.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, how did you We spoke a little bit about
this on the previous podcast, first weekend of SEC Play.
We go down to fully Field in Athens, Georgia. Really
different ballpark than KPP like Polar opposite. You pop a
ball up to right field in Georgia and it's gone. Yeah,
how did you game plan and change the you know, mindset,
(40:49):
the psyche of your guys for going to a small
ballpark versus a big ballpark, because as a pitcher you
kind of want to not think about it at all.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Well, I'm a little different than a lot of coaches
in that I would tell our pictures I want you
to be super aggressive, you know, don't you can't be
thinking about you know this, this.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Ballpark plays really small.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
But if you start nitpicking and get runners on base
and then you try to be too fine and you
lay a fastball over the middle of play, now you're
down three nothing or four nothing. So I would tell
my pictures, Hey, I want you to be aggressive on
the inside part of the play and then you know,
throw some quality strikes and uh, if you start, if
(41:36):
you start a hitter off kind of nitpicking.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You know this, I mean, it's going to get you
in trouble.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
You can't be afraid to throw a strike, cannot You
have to be Yeah, I'll be talking out a lot
about believing, but you have to believe in your pitch.
You know, whatever the pitches that's been called, or you
maybe you shook a pitch off and you're throwing your pitch.
You got to believe in that pitch. If you don't
believe in it, it's going to hurt you. Especially at
(42:02):
Foley Field.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
That'd be something to watch with that first weekend in Athens.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
Again where that ball flies out of my goodness, I've
seen guys one hundred and sixty pounds.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
It's like they turn into Barry Bonds or something.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I think it was the year before I got here,
all the guys talked about Araja new put the ball
up on the right the hill and right field and like,
couldn't see it five hundred feet.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
It's a unique environment.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
They're going to renovate that place, so it's going to
be brand new, but they still have the hill where
all those.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
It's it's an exciting place. It's a little bit like
the Cliff, except at the Cliff most of the time
the ball carried the left center.
Speaker 5 (42:43):
Field saw that a time or two, whereas then.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
Foley, it's almost like you don't I mean that short
porch and right field they have and that big like
hell they have out there beyond the right field fence.
It's almost like a lot of time the ball carries
that way. So the right handed hitter can, yeah, he
can almost get jammed and hit one over the right
fielder's head and maybe even get it out it. It
(43:08):
reminds me of where the Braves used to play back
in the days of Dale.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Murphy and you know, just before Turner.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, it was at Fulton County.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Stye, Fulton County, I think, so people.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
Had the ball carried there and major league pitchers hated
pitching there. And something about the elevation in Georgia and
Athens has that as well, maybe even more so. You
don't feel like you're in the mountains, but you're at
a higher elevation.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Flies and the ball flies.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
Yeah, can't walk, people can't hit you free base at all.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
That's what made Kentucky so good last year.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
They limited those.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Coach, we got to start wrapping things up here real quick, though.
Your book, Coaching with Purpose. Tell our listeners where they
can find it.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, you could find it paperback or hardcover on Amazon
or on Barnes and Noble. The publisher is Zulon Press.
You can get them through them. Most people obviously are
through Amazon.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
That's kind of to read it.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
Coach, Well, yeah, I hope you get some value from it,
dub and I hope a lot of coaches do. And
it was fun writing it, and uh, it's uh, it's
been fun for me too. For former players and different
coaches that I've known through the years send me a
text and say, hey, I'm reading your book. I like it,
and uh and then people I got a I got
(44:25):
a lengthy email today from a coach up East, a
college coach, and he said, I'm really getting into your book.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I love it, and I want to talk to you
about some of the things that are in the book.
That's awesome, Yeah, and that that's rewarding. It's very rewarding.
So I think there is value there for coaches. I
think I.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Learned a lot in the twenty eight years that I coached,
and I tried to put some of that in there.
And uh, and also, like I said earlier, there's some
things in there that I probably didn't do as well
as I should have. And I'm okay with being vulnerable.
So if you you know, I'm just glad I'm not
(45:04):
coaching anymore because some of the things I wrote in
a book. If I was still coaching, the fans would
be all over me.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Is there anything in there about learning things from sitting.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Beside me in the booth. I'm just kidding. You don't
have to answer that. You answer that.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
I've told a lot of people that Darren Hendrick is.
He's probably the most knowledgeable broadcast guy I've ever.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Seen in baseball. And I've listened to a lot of guys,
but big D knows the game.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
I'd say, yeah, i'd say you get into the big leagues,
but selfishly I won't.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I won't even stay here, man. But he is a
and I'll send you guys the checks. Yeah, your head's
not going to be able to get through that door. Yeah,
you got a big old nogg in. Anyway, this is
a small room. You're like, but you are a big
league play about playing. Thank you. You really are a man.
We're lucky to have it. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
That's a good spot to end on. Hey, coach, thanks
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Man. This was a lot of fun. We're going to
have you out here again to do this so I
would love to do it. What a spectacor place.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
And then you have to do these podcasts now and
to do all the producing and everything.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
It's when I'm.
Speaker 5 (46:12):
Coach one month away. We're going to see you soon.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
We got some baseball coming now.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I got to ask you a question. Okay.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
I know we're running along here, yeah, but no, you're
gonna give me a chance to, you know, to kind
of get in shape the spring and you know, do
four or five innings and then stretch it out to
seven Inny.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
We'll build you up, okay, I mean your old picture.
We'll build you up. I know you like to make
fun of me, but I finished strong last you man.
You did. I completed games.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
You did, You went the distance when we needed you most.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Just don't let Darren Hendrick have control of the windows. Man.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Oh my goodness, God loves calling baseball March with the windows.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Hey, you don't get the you don't get the effects.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, have the window.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Club the space heater in there, all right, coach, Thanks again, buddy, it's.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Always thank you. Dub enjored it, Yes, sir, for Darren Williams.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I'm Darren Headrick. This has been behind Kentucky Baseball, presented
by American Trust Wealth. We'll talk to you next time
right here on the UK Sports Network
And I think I think we've already spoke a little
bit about the full pen this year, and they got
the same DNA.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Type Robert Hogan's back. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I can't wait to see Simon Gregorson out there because
he was lights out for Indiana State against Kentucky last
year in the regional.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
You know, you hear you hear these old timers like
me talk about, Man, if I'd have had that slider,
if I'd had hogan slider, I promise you I would
have been pitching for the Big Red.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
To watch he can't to watch.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
And I hear my little you know, I usually have
have kind of that that coach's voice, but it got.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sort of squeaky it then it's like I'm just filled
with emotion.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Uh. That's one of my favorite things about Mitchell Daily's
home run. While I'm calling it, we just hear you
go yes in the background.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What a mon.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And Welcome back everybody. Another edition of Behind Kentucky Baseball.
We are presented by American Trust Wealth, a Kentucky proud
wealth services firm offering financial planning and investment management for
over forty years. Find out more at American Trustwealth dot com.
I'm Darren Hedrick again joined by my co host Darren Williams.
(01:23):
Dub and in the middle, we have got let's I
can introduce you like the Chicago Bulls. The man in
the middle. He is a Hall of Famer and the
winning this baseball coach at Kentucky. Keith Madison joining us
this week on the show. He's also my broadcast partner
last year on the road to Omaha.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Coach. Great to see you, buddy, Good to see you,
Darren and Darren Darren brother Darren. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
How you been man, What you been up to in
the off season. Oh, it's been great. I just got
back a few days ago from Washington, d C. Where
we had the American Baseball Coaches Association Convention and Clinic.
I serve on the board of that great organization, and uh,
it was a lot of fun. I get to see
a lot of old buddies. There's several guys on the
(02:11):
board that I competed against. So we get to tell
a war stories and hopefully influence the n C double
A to make college baseball a little better.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, coaching never stops. Coaches going No, we got to
make it better.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I was going to ask you how you're enjoying retirement.
But it doesn't sound like you're retired.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
No, No, I'm still doing I'm still doing a lot
of stuff with Score International. Went on a mission trip
back in November. Took took some guys with me, and
we you know, down there, we conduct free baseball clinics
for thousands of Dominican young Dominican baseball players. Just tremendous
(02:51):
kids with high energy and a thirst for knowledge for
in baseball.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So it's it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And then so I'm doing that and and and then,
like I.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Said, I serve on the board of the ABC A.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Uh, you know, I'm not sure we'll talk about this,
but I just released a book which has really been
fun and really keeping me going. And then hang out
with Sharon. We went to the basketball game last night.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I don't know, I don't know when this is going
to air, but we went to the basketball game and
had a blast.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Kentucky just beat Texas A and M. For those that
might be listening down the road, so yeah, you'd win.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
You liked watching them refs.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Oh my goodness that I didn't enjoy wather basketball game.
That was a ref show.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the goltending where the gay goes
two feet above the rim inside the rim and they
don't call.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Golden any Yeah. But anyway, hey, we won. That's all
the matters of the day, all the matters.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I gotta dive into that first comment, what would you
change about college baseball?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
I'd love to pick your brain on that.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Some of the things I probably should not share then
don't on the podcast.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
But what can you share?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yeah, you know, I think umpiring, believe it or not,
umpiring has gotten a lot better, uh, in the last
twenty five thirty years, that track, Yeah, and that has
helped big time. And also, you know, I think the
the n C DOUAA has gotten serious about having training
(04:24):
for umpires and making them better. A lot of those guys,
as you guys know, they're you know, they go to
umpire schools. They some of them have hopes of being
becoming major league umpires, just like you know we had
hopes of becoming a major league pitcher, of course. But
so yeah, I want to continue that getting better. I'm
a little concerned, you know, like a lot of people
(04:47):
about the transfer portal, the nil situation, but I think
the Cats out of the bag. You know, it's it's
not it's not going to change a whole lot. And
I'm one of those people. I clearly see both sides,
you know, especially in a contact sport like football, where
(05:08):
these cats go out and and risks actually risk their
lives and their health.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Oh yeah, for their school, for their team.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Their coaches are making millions of dollars and they're just
getting beat up every soy. Sure, they love the game,
they love playing, but I see that, you know, and
I see how from firsthand experience, how hard baseball players work.
A lot of people don't understand the time commitment that's involved.
And of course w know it, you know, well, yeah,
(05:36):
I mean it's weightlifting, it's tutoring, it's traveling, it's all
these things.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And it's a full time job based classes, classes on
the road.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
If you add classes to it, it's a full time job,
if not more so. I get that part of it,
But I think there needs to be some structure, and
I don't know who's going to implement that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
College game Day for football is talked about Nick Saban
a lot being the College Football.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Commissioner commissioner, you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Know, I thought about coach Keith Madison. Then why not,
let's go on. I thought about getting it. We'll start
the campaign.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I thought about getting a petition Nick Saban for president. Yeah,
I mean it would be good.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The guy's a leader.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Yeah, I mean he's great. He's great. Glad to hear
you've had a good off season.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, it's been good, man, And I cannot wait until
we get back up into booth and watching some ball
and start helping the umpires call balls and stri I
tell you, it's amazing what an eye Darren Hedrick has.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I mean, he's good, but if the umpire calls that's wrong,
he's Oh he's on. It's like that ball was three
inches outside.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Yeah, he's been doing this out.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And we're forty yards away. It's man, you're good. I'm
telling you. You got that Davy Crockett eye.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
It's like fifteen No, it's been eighteen years of watching
baseball from that petrum in the air.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Of course not but and I like that little bit
that the get on the outside. I don't think they
get that enough though. I don't either. I think it's
gotten tight, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, I'll tell you this from experience. When I pitched
the KU we didn't have track man. This was back
in the day before everybody that track man, and that
zone was a little wider.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
And then I got here and that thing shrunk a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, and no doubt, I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
We can dive into that as a part of a coach,
I guess to segue, when you have a tight strike
zone like that, how much did you used to emphasize
and still do like you have to work through the
middle of the zone to start, Like, you've got to
go throw quality pitches in the zone that can get
guys out.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No doubt. If you don't have good stuff with the
tight zone, you're in trouble. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
And another thing you have to do is you have
to be very aggressive inside. You have to make that
strike zone bigger.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah. And to do that, and the way to do
that is, you know, is to run that ball up.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And end scared hit people. No, no, I mean, you're
going to hit a few guys, it's part of the game.
But you've got to get him off the plate because
all of a sudden, if you don't get him off
the plate.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That plate gets wider.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And so if you've got good stuff and you're not
afraid to pitch in. You can be very productive as
a pitcher with a tight zone, but let's face it,
all of us like that that wide zone.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I don't you know.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
The thing that's changed a lot, Darren is is the
height of the zone.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, you know that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's when I see when I see pitches call for
strike at the letters.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's shocking to me because we never got that pitch.
You know why.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's because pitchers have had to adapt because of the
launch angle that hitters use. Now, if you climb, if
you can execute the pitch at the upper part of
the zone, you're gonna get swings and missus or pop ups.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, Tyler, I was just thinking to him, he was
the master.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
At that he had then and those guys have to
have that top third of the zone and they're getting
it now.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
He had that fastball that just had had the spin
rate and it looked like it was rising.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I know it it isn't, but it looked that way. Yeah, yeah,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
We're joined by Coach Madison on this week's edition of
Behind Kentucky Baseball, and I want to go back to
real quick Omaha last year and you've been around this
program you are so this program.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And you are basically the same.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
You've been a part of it and you've built it,
and you had great seasons here at Kentucky. What was
it like last year just being around the program, being
part of the program, finally seeing University of Kentucky get
to the College World Series?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Where I thought about that a lot, and and the
word that keeps coming back to me is rewarding.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It's and not only for me, but the fans. You know,
we have some.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
True blue Wildcat baseball fans that I mean, there's guys
that have season tickets now that had season tickets when
I coached. And to see them be rewarded with that
trip to Omaha and to see how coach Menngione put
together that team and just really worked very.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Hard on the culture of the program and the team.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And excuse me, it was very rewarding for me to
watch all that from a short distance.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You know. I mean, coach Man just so good.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
He always wants me to come in the dugout before
the game or during practice, and he wants me to
be a part of it. And as a former coach,
you know, you're always like, Man, I don't want to
get away or you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But he is so good with that.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
He wants everybody to feel like a part of the
program that he is built here.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And that's special. That's very special.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I mean we got out on the field after the
dogpile and Church Madison couldn't stop smiling.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
It was like, you know, it's sort of like that
fifteen year old boy that gets invited to prom. Yeah,
it all looks really good, but I don't know what
to do.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I mean, you talk a little bit about like that.
You see the dog pile.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Going on, and just the fans going nuts, and eight
nine thousand people just packed into a brand park going nuts.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
That was so much fun and and and you know, immediately,
not world, not immediately, but pretty soon after I got
down there and after I saw the dog pile, former
players started coming up to me. Yeah, you know, Scott Downs,
Greg Stevens, Jim Murphy, all these guys they started coming
around and coach, isn't this awesome? And so they were
(11:54):
celebrating with the team because doub you know, having played
here once, you're part of that family, you're always a
part of that family.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
It was really weird.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Not being on the field for opening Day last year,
and obviously, you know, it's opening Day, and I'm tuned in.
Obviously we do a well around the program, but I mean,
fifty years from now when opening Day comes around, I'm
going to be tuned in, like, yeah, let's go boys, let's.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Play some ball.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
You know. Yeah, it's really exciting. And I know they
had a lot of.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Support from the former players, former coaches, just everybody in
the community because that was truly the first time that's
ever happened.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I mean, it was a really special moment. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Yeah, we got close a few times and uh, but
you know, to see it actually happen, and then and
then for coach Minngion and his staff to invite me
and you know, Doug Flann to go out with them,
that was really special. It made me feel even more
a part of it. And we just had so much
(12:53):
fun out there.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Man. I had so much fun calling games with Big D.
And I listened to it.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah, I listened to some of those things that are
posted on h on Instagram and and and that call
and and I hear my little you know, I usually
have have kind of that that coach's voice, but it got.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Sort of squeaky at the end. It's like, I'm just
filled with emotion. Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
That's one of my favorite things about Mitchell Daily's home run.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
While I'm calling it, we just hear you go yes
in the background. What a mom man.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I tell you, If that kid walks in the door
right now, I'm giving him a big old hug.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I didn't think there was anything that could top the
moment that Johnny Hummel struck out the final batter to
send this team to the College World Series until Mitchell
Daily hit the walk off home run in the first game.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And I'm like, that actually topped the other moment.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
And you know, Hummel had that horrendous game and I
know we shouldn't even talk about it or remember it,
but it was just a horrible game. I think it
was South Carolina, you know, and and.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Boy wit relief. I pitched to relieve. And sometimes that's
part of the game. It's part of the game, but
sometimes guys will let it get in their heads and
it lingers into two three weeks yeah, yeah, months, yeah,
and poor to see him come out and do that.
He was nails for us in that postseason run.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
A really good post.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It shows you what a heart he is.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, and I think I think we've already spoke a
little bit about the bullpen this year. I mean they
got the same DNA type.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Robert Hogan's back.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, I can't wait to see Simon Gregorson out there
because he was lights out for Indiana State against Kentucky
last year in the regional.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
You know, you hear you hear these old timers like
me talk about Man, if I'd have had that slider,
if I'd have had hogan slider, I promise you I
would have been pitching for the big Red's to watch.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
He can't fun to watch? Uh uh do shortstop this year?
Tyler Bell replacing, He's got some big shoes to fill now.
With Grant Smith and some of the plays he made.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, you know how I feel about Grant Smith and
that game. It's so steady. You don't see shortstops at
the college level that steady.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You just don't. You don't see.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I mean, you see great athletes that make great plays,
and then you see some that make most of the
routine plays. But you don't see people that make all
the routine plays and then make them hurt.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, yep, and keeps going, keeps making the routing play.
I mean, fun to pitch for that guy behind.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
You, and I think, yeah, a lot of people forget
how hurt he was at the College World Series.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
There were a few injuries.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, yeah, you know, Dub.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
On the last podcast, you and I talked about how
Kentucky has turned into shortstop you. But one thing we
left out is the blessings at first base that Kentucky
has had the last two years Hunter Gillim the captain,
and then last year Ryan Nicholson, who tied the home
run record. This team doesn't have the success that's had
without those guys at first base, and they played terrific
defense on top of that.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Yeah, somebody that can pick it.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Yeah boy, that's that's one of the most underrated things
in baseball. I think you don't appreciate a good first
basement until you don't have one.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Not lying, you are not lying speaking speaking of the.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Choir on shortstop can make a great throw, he's gotta
have somebody to receive it.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I think that just goes into how hard our coaching
staff coaches these guys, Like I know, a lot the
fans don't get to see practice on a day that
there is no inner squad, but the defensive work that
these guys go out and do for hours at a
time on that turf. Yeah, and pick plays, making the
(16:32):
routine play at first base, catching pop ups at first base,
communication at first base, backing up throws at first base,
Like every little detail they cover so intently, and it
shows off when you make a postseason run, because you've
got to have a high level of defense. I wanted
to I want to circle back a little bit what
Darren mentioned there before and get a little coaches mindset
(16:56):
from you. You know, I'm a high school coach at
Sarah High School here in so maybe you can help
me out with this a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Shout out, shout out.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
You got a really talented freshman shortstop type can contend
for that been drafted high prospect. How do you handle
that as a coach when maybe your most talented player
is a freshman. How do you handle that to cultivate
that guy into being the type of guy he needs.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
To be for the team.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Well, this is going to sound so overly simplistic, but
I think its key is that you believe in him,
because a freshman, no matter how talented that freshman is.
All of a sudden, he's thrown into a situation where
he's competing with and against men, Yeah, grown men, four
(17:45):
year olds, And so the confidence part can get destroyed
quickly if you don't constantly belief in that kid. I
had a young shortstop when you're at Tennessee, made three
errors in win inning, and it was it was tough.
It was so bad. But when he came in the dugout,
(18:06):
I said, you're my shortstop. You've had a bad night,
but we play tomorrow. You're gonna be my shortstop, So
get it behind you. My mother used to say, she's
ninety six. Now she still says. Sometimes she'll say, lecky,
bad wound, and get over it, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
And so and it's coming for everybody.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, everybody's freshman. Yeah, everybody's going to get wounded a
little bit. And you just got to get over it.
And and and that's harder for some people to learn
than others. The talent surely helps, yeah, because all it
takes is another big play for you to get over
that and and get going.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
It's interesting because every time somebody would come into the
game for Kentucky, brand new whether it was due to
injury or they just wanted to sub in. Somebody knew
the first ball off the bat was hit right out
of the ball every time. I remember several games where
Patrick Herrera would come into the lineup or Eli Small
would pinch hit, and they would keep him in the
game but put him maybe at a position he's still learning.
(19:08):
First one would be a rocket right at him every time,
and they made the plays, but it was every time.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
It's like the Murphy's lall baseball. I don't know what
it's called, but it happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Oh yeah, that's another name that we haven't spoke too much,
and we need to have a conversation with.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
Old Patty Herrera.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, Patty Picks.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Patty Picks a guy who transferred in, had a really
big year freshman year at Northwestern, came in as a sophomore,
has waited his turn, waited his turn, and now year
four comes around. He's done some really good things in
year two and three. Your four comes around and he
looks like an every day player he's was about in
four or five and the inner squads, he's taken big sistence, consistent,
(19:47):
big steps forward, played o Maha. He's played in the Regional,
he played in the Super He's been there, done that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
How big is that?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
You know, to have a guy that's you know, not
the starter through all those but has been here and
now he's gonna to get his chance to be the guy.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Well, dub, as you were talking about that, I immediately
thought of Mitch Daily. Mitch Daily had played in the
College Rural Series as far as I know, the only
gown the team that had played in the College Rural Series,
and he delivered big.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It makes a difference.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
And so the experience that Patrick has gotten is going
to pay great dividends.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I expect him to be, you know, one of the.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
One of the outstanding players in the league because because
of his experience, and he's a skilled.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Player, yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
He's got great strikes one discipline too. He draws a
lot of walks. He figures out a way to get
on base.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
And coach knows, I mean, like that get you so angry.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
I love facing the free swingers. Yeah you know that
that tried to lift all the time. I mean those
people have holes in her swing. Yeah, guys like Herrera
don't have many holes in her swing. And they're going
to lay off that pitch that's just you know, four
inches and or four inches out.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And another guy who's had a lot of success and
inner squads in the fall, in the spring so far,
so be interesting to watch. I'm excited for him. He's
a he's a great dude, and I know he's a
great locker room presence personality. So I'm excited to see
old Patty go to work this year.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I hope he's listening to this, because the guy's listened,
so he probably don't.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I believe in him. You believe in him.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
You believe in him, and so that's a big part
of it. It's one thing to believe in yourself, but
when you get a people around you, like his teammates,
his coaches, you know, insignificant people like us who sit
up in the press box. You get everybody believing in you,
it makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
The only time I don't believe in him is when
I'm on the mound against the former teammate. Let's go, Yeah,
you know, I got it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Oh. I love that he still has his swag about him.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yah, you want to win, I'd go out and throw
eighty two.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
You're a competitor you want to win.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Every time we're chatting with coach Madison here on behind
Kentucky Baseball, I want to talk to you a little
bit about the league this year and what Kentucky's going
to be facing entering the spring. Obviously, the Cats have
brought in a top ten transfer class. They brought in
a really good freshman class, highlighted by Tyler Bell, so
they're ready to go even though it's a brand new team.
But you add Texas and Oklahoma. Coach, it was really
(22:24):
weird when the SEC schedule came out and I'm looking
and there's no Florida on there, but there's Oklahoma and Texas.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's both on there. It's crazy. It's got to be
the first time ever that no we ever played Florida.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
That rivalry is going to be weird not to see
I always see them in the Hoover, I really do.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
South Carolina and Vanderbilt under the current structure are going
to be the yearly opponents. Everybody else rotates, but they
do go to Tennessee this year.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
But it's going to be weird.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Like you all say that, there's going to be seasons
where Florida and Tennessee are not on that schedule.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's strange, especially Florida and Tennessee.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
I mean, those are the two teams that when I
think of rivals, battles for the division, you.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Know, all of those things.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I remember, I think it was two out of three
of my first years here we finished second in the
division behind Florida. That was like, I want to get
those guys, you know, I want to get them.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So we'll see how that works out.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
But uh, you know, Oklahoma has a proud baseball program.
They've won a national championship or two. Texas obviously, Yeah,
and both those states have great high school baseball in
the states warm. Yeah, it's warm where they recruit. So
you know, it's those are tough opponents for Kentucky, but
(23:44):
we've played a lot of tough opponents before, right.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And they're both at home this year.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, So, uh, start on the road at Georgia and
then there's Old Miss on the schedule, and you've got
a trip to Texas, A and M. So it's a
it's an interesting schedule and I kind of like where
it's a little bit of new even though it's familiar
opponents because you don't have those yearly rivalries anymore.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. But and you guys are well
aware of this. When you walk down on that field
around SEC baseball players guys.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Are massive now yeah, not football players, yeah, grown adult men. Yeah.
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
There's a few, you know that aren't that big, but man,
most of them.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You know. You walk up next to Ryan Nicholson, big boy,
big boy.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, you know, and when he squared went up, you
pretty well knew it was gone.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Fun, fun to watch him swing.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
The oh I love watching him swing. I'm gonna miss him.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
One of one of the things coach Minch would always
say back when I was playing, is, uh, let's keep
our few where our feet are, you know, let's focus
on today.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So forget the SEC schedule for a minute.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Coach.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I want to get back to that coach's mindset because
it's January currently and it's such a weird time to
be a a in coachmingja's shoes.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, because you know.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
You're not in team practice yet, you're not playing games yet,
you're not playing full inner squads yet maybe to do
some live abs, and your pitchers aren't exactly where they're
gonna be, you know, their hitters aren't where they're gonna be.
How much is it like, Okay, I want you to
do great in practice, but I kind of want you
to fail in practice and make sure like I got
(25:25):
room to grow before the season starts, before SEC play
gets here, before the regional gets here.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
It's it's uh, that is a great observation on your part, Dub,
because looking back when I was going through that, it
was it was almost like the season seems so far
oh way, you know, it couldn't get here soon enough.
That anticipation tells you, yeah, you just want so badly
(25:51):
to get there and compete. But then the other part
of my coaching mind was like, gosh, we need all
that because we're not ready yet.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
We got to get prepared.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
But I will say this, I was with Coachminge and
the entire staff Monday morning, and it was the most
relaxed I've seen those guys since after the College World
Series last year.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Yeah, they were all in a great frame of mind.
They were you know, they seemed like they were ready
to go, but they also accepted the fact that they've got.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
A way to go. That they you know, they're not
quite there yet.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
But I think they made so much progress in the fall.
It started off. I think they were a little concerned
about certain areas.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That's what happens when you bring thirty new guys, no doubt,
no doubt.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
And then but you know, at the end of the fall,
I said, hey, you know, these guys accomplished quite a bit.
And it's a lot to get your head around when
you bring in thirty new guys and you're trying to
get them to play and be a team. That's a
short amount of time to get that done.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And then you've.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Got you know, the postfall, the weightlifting, the individual workouts
and all those things that helps that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
And you know how it is.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I mean, guys get to know each other, of course,
and it takes a little while before you get to
that point where hey, you can rip each other a
little bit and laugh about it. And I think those
guys are getting there now. So it'll be interesting to see,
because I've told everybody one of the most impressive things
I've seen in college baseball in a long time is
(27:36):
the way Coachminge took that group of guys that were
a lot of you guys last year. He took them
and molded them into.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
A tight nit family. And so if he can do
it with that group, he can.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Do it with this group, even if they were weird.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah they were weird, but we're all kind of weird, right.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
That's the other fun thing too, is year the year,
No team is the same personalities year to year of
each team. Last year it was the get weird stuff
with the pink caps and everything. Curious to see what
this year's personality is.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Like, yeah, boy, you're right about that. Every team does
have that unique personality. And you know, last year's team
knew how to turn on the weirdness when they needed
to and then lock it in. That team was a
bunch of killers, no doubt. Let's be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Like, if you gave that team something, they ran with it, right.
And there's the fifth inning, you bring in your first
reliever and that guy ain't rolling. The game is over
because we just scored five quick.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
There were so many big hits, big pitches, big plays
in the outfield and infield with that team last year.
They were all wanting to make the big play. And
there's you know, for those people listening that maybe haven't
played a high level baseball, there are guys out there
that don't want the ball hit too oh yeah, and
(29:00):
they want.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
To pressure situations. They will be in the batter's box
they want to be. They want to hit, but don't.
Don't hit the ball to me right now. Hit it
to the hit it to somebody else, hit the grand Smith.
But last year, I think every one of those guys
wanted to ball hit to them. Now.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah, they made some outstanding plays. I mean we could
sit here the rest of the afternoon and talk about.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
But Coach, I wanted to talk to you about a
little project you've had in the off season launching. You've
been on a book tour recently and your new book
that's out, Coaching with Purpose by coach Keith Madison.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Put that up for our cameras to see.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Uh, tell me a little bit about the book and
the inspiration for writing it.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Well, Uh, if I could be totally transparent, I when
I when I first started writing that book, it was
going to be more of a devotional book. It was
going to be a faith driven book. And it still
is to a to a small extent.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Uh. But as I started really thinking about the.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Stories and the experiences I've had as a coach. I
started thinking, well, you know, my audience is hopefully going
to be coaches from all levels, high school, college, whatever,
and also coaches at different ages, Like there's going to
be some young coach like coaches like dub that will
(30:18):
read this and maybe they'll pick up one nugget or
two that will help them be a better coach. Or
maybe it's an older guy that says, you know, it's
not too late for me to change this or that.
Like I talk a lot about connecting with the players,
and I talk a lot about communication.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I talk a lot about what.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I mentioned earlier, believing, because the coaches that got the
most out of me were the ones that believed in me,
and you know, and also talk about, hey, you know,
there's more than one way to skin a cat. You
as you come through baseball, you play for a lot
of different coaches and basketball and football, Like my basket
(31:00):
ball coach in high school was tough, tough, tough on me,
and I probably didn't appreciate it at the time, but
I'm probably a little bit stronger now because of that toughness.
My high school coach was a quiet encourager and he
really really believed in me. And I knew it and
(31:21):
he got a lot out of me too. So there's
a lot of different ways to coach, but I just
share some things, and the transparent part is I share
some mistakes I made. You know, I wish I had
done it this way, And I mean I look at
some of the things just to be honest with you,
that coach Men's does. And also Dan, you know, the
(31:41):
pitching guy. I mean, I think kind of wish.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That I'd have done it that way. You know, we're
always learning.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
If you're not a lifetime learner, you probably should do
something else because coaching in any sport you have to
be a lifetime learner. And that's what the book's about.
It's about, you know, it's not too late to learn.
It's not if you're doing something that that maybe is
not helping you connect with the players, it's not too
late to change that, because connecting is what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I'd imagine there's more than just coaching in there. I'd
say it's a lot of life lessons. I'm excited to
read it. I appreciate you bringing me a copy of
absolutely How important is it for you to as a
coach to hire assistants that are different than you, Right,
because coach Rozelle, Coach Kuzy, Coach Sloan don't have the
same personality coach Minch does.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
They all coach guys a different way. I know the
strength coach Coach d and coach Jones have totally different
right personalities than coach Minch, you know, And it's important.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
I believe in my journey as a.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Player to have different coaches with different personalities to mold
you into the player that you need to be to
be successful. How much, how old once should that go
into your process and hire an assistance.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Well, I think it's a great point. I think it's
a valid point. Like I was talking to C. M.
Newton once, he was my athletic director at the time,
and I was getting getting ready to make a assistant
coaching hire and he said, he said, hey, take advantage
of your assistant coaches. And I said, what do you mean.
He said, I'm not talking about overworking them. I'm talking
(33:11):
about learn from them. He said he coached, He coached
basketball at Transylvania, Alabama, Vanderbilt, and he.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Was very successful.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
And he said every assistant coach I hired, I learned
something from him. And if you're not learning from your assistants,
you need to get another assistantstance.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, so you know that's part of it.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
And then as as far as you know the strengths
and weaknesses of you know, it's like, you know, when
I first started coaching Kentucky, I connected really well with
the players, and I was a good pitching guy. I
needed an assistant coach that was a good hitting, base
running guy. I needed an assistant coach that was more
(33:50):
organized than me, because I'm I'm I can be the
absent minded professor. Sometimes I get so many things going
in my head, you know, and D knows this.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
I leave my glasses in the press bar, I leave
my notebook in the press. I need somebody around me
that is organized, and if that comes easier for some
for certain people than others. So I always wanted to
surround myself with people that were organized, that had skills
that were higher than mine, especially when it came to uh,
(34:22):
you know, base running hitting. I mean I got two
hits in five years of myron leagues.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
We still hit. You know what hitter is going to
listen to me? I know how to get hitters out get.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
A head coaching job somewhere you don't want to learn.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
But that circles back to to how important is it
to trust your assistance and let them do their job.
If you're like in football, you're the offensive coordinator, or
in you become a head coach, you've obviously got to
go out and hire a defensive coordinator and you trust
that he's going to run his unit the way he needs.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
To run it. That is exactly right. You know.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
You you want to be able to trust that guy
and know that he's going to teach skills that you
know something.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But sure, we know a little bit about hitting. We've
been around the game.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
All our lives, but I don't know as much about
hitting as you know Todd Williams or you know, Nick
Ameeratti or some of these guys that that's their I mean,
that is their thing. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's
it's what they do. So surround yourself with good people.
You don't uh, I can't remember which leadership grew said this,
(35:27):
but if you're the smartest person in the room, you
need to get in another room.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
It's if you if you have that kind of attitude,
you're never gonna You might be a good coach, but
your your program isn't going to excel like it could
if you surround yourself with great people. And I think
Mene has done a great job with that. He's got
he's got stellar assistant coaches.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
But yeah, it's uh, you know, it's it's a something
that some leaders don't want to be transparent about or
don't want to accept it or admit it.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
But we need help, you know.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
It's it's always a team thing and no matter what
business you're in.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
And I think this book that.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
That I just released on December second, I think it's
also appropriate for leaders in business because it talks about
communication and connecting and getting you know, if you've heard
just saying too, you know, if I hire somebody smarter
than me, that I'm smarter than them. And it's that
(36:32):
kind of attitude. You want to bring the best people.
You want to surround yourself with the best people as
you can and get your ego out of the way
and and let your assistant coaches say, coach, you know,
why don't you look at it this way?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
And then accept that and try it.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Speaking of an assistant coach, you've met old coach Sloan
a few times.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Oh yeah, now, yes, So take us.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
In a little bit into his mindset. We'll get him
on here eventually. What's all coach Sloan's mindset? What's the
Coach Slan Kentucky offense. Yeah, you're going to look like
give us a little preview.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I'm going to tell you that. When have you met
him yet?
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Okay, So there's more there than what you see. He
is a very sharp, offensive guy and he you know,
I don't know what because I was an old guy
or what, but when I first met.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Him, he was very quiet, very quiet. He didn't say much.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
And I've been around him, I don't know, eight or
ten times now, and I'm beginning to see that coaching
mentality more and more. As a matter of fact, Friday
morning at the Kentucky High School Baseball Coaches Association clinic,
that's a mouthful. Yeah, I get to introduce Chase and
(37:44):
I'm looking forward to that. But I learned a little
bit about him actually before he came here. One of
the guys he used to work with, Nate Metzger, is
good friends with Chase, and as soon as men hired.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Him, he called me up. He said, Hey, you can't
tell anybody.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
This, but Chase is going to be, you know, the
hitting guy Kentucky. And I said, tell me about him.
He said, all I got to say is you're going
to love.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Him, and the fans are going to love We've heard
good things and coach Man is going to love him.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
So he I can tell just but being around him
that he's a team player. We're going to you know,
I think we're going to continue with putting pressure on defense.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I think we're going to continue with being disciplined at
the plate. I think we're going to continue a lot
of things that that we've done the last couple of
years that have been successful.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
But also.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I think you're going to see some aggressive offensive play.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, that's what it's got to be play. I mean
with the ballpark structure of the way it is. And
we've had this conversation for the difference between KPP and
the Cliff, like.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Oh my goodness, you got to play different.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
It's you got to play different.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
And I think Men's was so smart to recognize that
and recruit to it. You know, you, uh, if you
play in a big ballpark like Kentucky Proud Park, you
better have.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Some speed in the outfield and there you go.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Was we used to be able to hide players in
right field as the cliff you know, you can't do
it anymore. And like I would hide a player in
right field and then on the road, then on the
road d h M or put him in left. Well, now,
I mean everybody out there has got to be mobile. Yeah,
you got to have a good arm. And so it's uh,
And I think ninge uh and his staff they do
(39:31):
a good job of recruiting.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
To that, no, no question, And I can't wait to
see is. I know they're going to stay with what
has brought this program to where it is. They're going
to stay with their philosophy and within their system. But
with Kuzzano and Sloan kind of running things, how does
that evolve into things that they like to do, little
wrinkles that they might add into an approach.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Yeah, I think you're going to see it, you know,
I think, uh, you know kuzzno Is he's a force.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I mean yeah, twenty thirteen. Yeah, I've seen some highlights.
Dude was aggressive, oh my good, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
And he is.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
First of all, he's a fun guy to be around.
But He's also a guy that players respect because he
talks to them at their level. He knows how to
do that. So I think I think Koozi and uh
and coach Loan are going to work really well.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Again.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, how did you We spoke a little bit about
this on the previous podcast, first weekend of SEC Play.
We go down to fully Field in Athens, Georgia. Really
different ballpark than KPP like Polar opposite. You pop a
ball up to right field in Georgia and it's gone. Yeah,
how did you game plan and change the you know, mindset,
(40:49):
the psyche of your guys for going to a small
ballpark versus a big ballpark, because as a pitcher you
kind of want to not think about it at all.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Well, I'm a little different than a lot of coaches
in that I would tell our pictures I want you
to be super aggressive, you know, don't you can't be
thinking about you know this, this.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Ballpark plays really small.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
But if you start nitpicking and get runners on base
and then you try to be too fine and you
lay a fastball over the middle of play, now you're
down three nothing or four nothing. So I would tell
my pictures, Hey, I want you to be aggressive on
the inside part of the play and then you know,
throw some quality strikes and uh, if you start, if
(41:36):
you start a hitter off kind of nitpicking.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You know this, I mean, it's going to get you
in trouble.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
You can't be afraid to throw a strike, cannot You
have to be Yeah, I'll be talking out a lot
about believing, but you have to believe in your pitch.
You know, whatever the pitches that's been called, or you
maybe you shook a pitch off and you're throwing your pitch.
You got to believe in that pitch. If you don't
believe in it, it's going to hurt you. Especially at
(42:02):
Foley Field.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
That'd be something to watch with that first weekend in Athens.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
Again where that ball flies out of my goodness, I've
seen guys one hundred and sixty pounds.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
It's like they turn into Barry Bonds or something.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I think it was the year before I got here,
all the guys talked about Araja new put the ball
up on the right the hill and right field and like,
couldn't see it five hundred feet.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
It's a unique environment.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
They're going to renovate that place, so it's going to
be brand new, but they still have the hill where
all those.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
It's it's an exciting place. It's a little bit like
the Cliff, except at the Cliff most of the time
the ball carried the left center.
Speaker 5 (42:43):
Field saw that a time or two, whereas then.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
Foley, it's almost like you don't I mean that short
porch and right field they have and that big like
hell they have out there beyond the right field fence.
It's almost like a lot of time the ball carries
that way. So the right handed hitter can, yeah, he
can almost get jammed and hit one over the right
fielder's head and maybe even get it out it. It
(43:08):
reminds me of where the Braves used to play back
in the days of Dale.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Murphy and you know, just before Turner.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, it was at Fulton County.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Stye, Fulton County, I think, so people.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
Had the ball carried there and major league pitchers hated
pitching there. And something about the elevation in Georgia and
Athens has that as well, maybe even more so. You
don't feel like you're in the mountains, but you're at
a higher elevation.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Flies and the ball flies.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
Yeah, can't walk, people can't hit you free base at all.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
That's what made Kentucky so good last year.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
They limited those.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Coach, we got to start wrapping things up here real quick, though.
Your book, Coaching with Purpose. Tell our listeners where they
can find it.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, you could find it paperback or hardcover on Amazon
or on Barnes and Noble. The publisher is Zulon Press.
You can get them through them. Most people obviously are
through Amazon.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
That's kind of to read it.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
Coach, Well, yeah, I hope you get some value from it,
dub and I hope a lot of coaches do. And
it was fun writing it, and uh, it's uh, it's
been fun for me too. For former players and different
coaches that I've known through the years send me a
text and say, hey, I'm reading your book. I like it,
and uh and then people I got a I got
(44:25):
a lengthy email today from a coach up East, a
college coach, and he said, I'm really getting into your book.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I love it, and I want to talk to you
about some of the things that are in the book.
That's awesome, Yeah, and that that's rewarding. It's very rewarding.
So I think there is value there for coaches. I
think I.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Learned a lot in the twenty eight years that I coached,
and I tried to put some of that in there.
And uh, and also, like I said earlier, there's some
things in there that I probably didn't do as well
as I should have. And I'm okay with being vulnerable.
So if you you know, I'm just glad I'm not
(45:04):
coaching anymore because some of the things I wrote in
a book. If I was still coaching, the fans would
be all over me.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Is there anything in there about learning things from sitting.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Beside me in the booth. I'm just kidding. You don't
have to answer that. You answer that.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
I've told a lot of people that Darren Hendrick is.
He's probably the most knowledgeable broadcast guy I've ever.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Seen in baseball. And I've listened to a lot of guys,
but big D knows the game.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
I'd say, yeah, i'd say you get into the big leagues,
but selfishly I won't.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I won't even stay here, man. But he is a
and I'll send you guys the checks. Yeah, your head's
not going to be able to get through that door. Yeah,
you got a big old nogg in. Anyway, this is
a small room. You're like, but you are a big
league play about playing. Thank you. You really are a man.
We're lucky to have it. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
That's a good spot to end on. Hey, coach, thanks
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Man. This was a lot of fun. We're going to
have you out here again to do this so I
would love to do it. What a spectacor place.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
And then you have to do these podcasts now and
to do all the producing and everything.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
It's when I'm.
Speaker 5 (46:12):
Coach one month away. We're going to see you soon.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
We got some baseball coming now.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I got to ask you a question. Okay.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
I know we're running along here, yeah, but no, you're
gonna give me a chance to, you know, to kind
of get in shape the spring and you know, do
four or five innings and then stretch it out to
seven Inny.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
We'll build you up, okay, I mean your old picture.
We'll build you up. I know you like to make
fun of me, but I finished strong last you man.
You did. I completed games.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
You did, You went the distance when we needed you most.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Just don't let Darren Hendrick have control of the windows. Man.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Oh my goodness, God loves calling baseball March with the windows.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Hey, you don't get the you don't get the effects.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, have the window.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Club the space heater in there, all right, coach, Thanks again, buddy, it's.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Always thank you. Dub enjored it, Yes, sir, for Darren Williams.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I'm Darren Headrick. This has been behind Kentucky Baseball, presented
by American Trust Wealth. We'll talk to you next time
right here on the UK Sports Network
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