February 17, 2024 • 37 mins
In this episode, I sit down with Kieron James, the esteemed CEO and founder of Wonderful, a trailblazer in the realm of instant bank payment technology. He walks us through his entrepreneurial voyage, highlighting the hurdles he's overcome. He stresses the virtues of patience, perseverance, and the necessity to evolve with the technological landscape. The discussion also touches on how lessons from his passion for running mirror the dynamics of steering a successful business, underscoring the value of gratitude, gaining perspective, and crafting a personal definition of success. As the CEO of Wonderful, Kieron delves into his past life as an indie rock band drummer and shares a personal indulgence. Wrapping up, he offers a book suggestion and sparks a conversation on the merits of morning versus afternoon exercise routines. Throughout our talk, we explore the intricacies of endurance training and recovery, pushing the boundaries of physical stamina, managing injuries, and finding the right mix of rest and activity. Kieron, the visionary behind Wonderful, also provides insights on how to connect with him for further information.
These are our friends. These are your friends. AND they are living the extraordinary.
For a transcript of this episode, go to www.behindthedreamers.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:25):
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Dreamers.
I'm your host, jennifer Loading, and we are talking to the
achievers, the creators, themagic makers and the dreamers.
These are our friends, theseare your friends and they are
living the extraordinary.
I'm excited about my guesttoday.
He has a passion for pushingboundaries and doing good.
Over the past 25 years, he andhis co-founder have initiated,
(00:46):
expanded and successfully exitednine businesses, two of which
reached NASDAQ listed status Onthe boardroom.
He's an enthusiastic runnerwith a love for yoga and music
making.
I found out a fun fact abouthim that he used to be a drummer
for an indie rock band, whichis kind of fun.
So I went through your profileand looked at all that.
So we are going to be in for atreat today.
(01:07):
But before I welcome him on, Ido need to do a quick shout out
to our sponsors.
This episode is brought to youby Walt Mills Productions.
Need to add excitement to yourYouTube videos or some expert
hands for editing?
Look no further.
Walt Mills is the solutionyou've been searching for.
Walt is not only your go-to guyfor spicing up content.
He's the force behind athriving film production company
(01:29):
with numerous titles in thepipeline, always on the lookout
for raw talent.
Walt is eager to collaborate onfilm and internet productions.
With a background deeply rootedin entertainment and promotion,
walt Mills leverages years ofskills to give you the spotlight
you deserve.
Want to learn more about Waltand his work?
Head on over toWaltMillsProductionsnet and let
(01:50):
your content shine.
Okay, so now that we got allthat done, we can get our guests
on the show.
I'm excited.
It's going to be fun.
So, kieran, it's going to befun, kieran James.
He's the visionary CEO andfounder of wonderful, a company
revolutionizing instant bankpayment technology with its
commitment to simplicity, speedand security.
With three decadesentrepreneurial experience,
(02:13):
kieran is not only shaping thefintech landscape, but also
serving as a non-executivedirector at the fundraising
regulator.
He's passion-wise and fosteringpositive social impact,
supporting charitable causes andempowering fundraisers for
maximum impact.
His mission is to establishwonderful payment as the
foremost instant bank paymentprovider in the UK and beyond.
(02:33):
So, kieran, welcome to the show.
Super glad to have you heretoday.
Kieron (02:37):
Thank you for having me, Jenny, for my pleasure it's
going to be fun.
Jennifer (02:40):
I had to get all that out.
It's like so much to talk aboutin the first few minutes of
this podcast.
Kieron (02:44):
Yeah, I feel like you've really set me up there now.
I've got a lot to live up to,so fingers crossed.
Jennifer (02:49):
That's good.
I know I love these bios.
I always have fun with them andyou know we probably said this
the other day I love AI too,because it takes that content
and it makes it all wordedreally well for me, so it makes
my job easy.
You know, before AI came out,I'd have to sit and I'd have to,
like, craft these bios up.
And that's my favorite partreally is how do I showcase you
guys and shine the light right,like, how do I make you look
really good here?
(03:09):
I would have fun creating these, but I would spend so much time
trying to make sure I got theright words and I didn't mess
this up and now I'm like copypaste, put it in.
Let's reword it the wayJennifer would say it a little
bit change the words so theysound like Jennifer.
We got it, we're good.
Kieron (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's amazing.
I mean, some of the advances inAI.
We're using it for some of thesupport services on our website
and it frankly has saved us anabsolute fortune in terms of
time and resources Brilliant.
Jennifer (03:33):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Sometimes it's just goodbecause you've got the, you know
you'll have the message, butyou don't quite have the
vernacular right, Like you justdon't quite have the wording,
and it can help you with that,just that little bit of that
wording.
Kieron (03:45):
Exactly.
Jennifer (03:46):
All right.
Well, I'm excited.
Let's talk about what you gotgoing on.
So let's talk about, first ofall, wonderful.
Let's talk about what this is,so our audience knows what it is
that you're doing here.
Kieron (03:55):
Okay, yeah, so laterally we're in payments, but it's
been a very securitist routeinto payment.
So I'll share a little bit ofthe story, if that's okay.
We kicked off in 2016 and atthe time you mentioned running
in the intro and thanks for themention on that.
I was doing the New Yorkmarathon I think the second time
for a charity called Mind inthe UK, raising money for Mind
(04:19):
and basically using afundraising platform in the UK a
very prominent one and, I think, just a little concerned by the
amount of money that wasleaking from that platform into
various different directions,whether that was the cost of
payment processing or deductionsfrom Gift Aid, which is a tax
incentive that really is inplace to benefit charities, or
elsewhere.
(04:39):
So what we did at the time waswe thought can we set up an
alternative fundraising platformand see whether we can get 100%
of the donations to go tocharity?
This was a completelyphilanthropic project.
So I was running a telecomsbusiness at the time, spoke to
my colleagues in the businessand said look, lunch breaks
(05:00):
coffee.
I always do fancy having you goup building a fundraising
platform.
Odd thing to suggest, but theyloved it.
Everyone got really excitedabout it, I think because it was
tech for good in a genuinesense.
So we set about building thisplatform and then essentially
what happened was it took us alittle while to get the
charities to understand that ourmotivations were entirely
(05:20):
philanthropic.
They were a little nervousabout getting on board and once
they did, we have a gain ofsight in the UK called the money
saving expert, apparently oneof the top 100 most trafficked
websites in the UK.
They endorsed the platform andsaid this was a fabulous thing
and suddenly that kind ofskepticism and nervousness
amongst the charities justevaporated and they came on
(05:42):
board in really big numbers.
That then created a successparadox.
So we were running thisplatform completely free, funded
through corporate sponsorship.
After about a year we got a bankonboard to try and cover some
of the costs and they helped usout.
But essentially as we grew,those costs of processing
payments just grew along withthe platform.
(06:03):
So we found that was creating areally low ceiling on our
impact and reach and we thoughtwhat can we do to solve this
problem?
And just in time, along came anew technology open banking.
So we adopted that, we movedaway from card processing for
donations and suddenly we got asolution to the problem.
So that is probably a slightlylonger winded way of explaining
(06:26):
how we got to what we're doingtoday, but that's the route.
Jennifer (06:30):
That's awesome.
Yeah, no, and it's interesting.
I think that we may have talkedabout this off camera when we
met, but I think it'sinteresting how companies come
about.
I always feel like the best wayis, when you're trying to solve
a problem, you figure out wherethe bottleneck is in something.
And it was somebody I don'tknow who it was Somebody I was
talking to recently even saidthat he said he was trying to
determine who his client was andhe said I was the client.
(06:51):
I was trying to figure out thesolution.
When I tried to figure out thesolution then it became about
there's got to be other peopleout there that need what I have
because it was a problem for me.
So I think that sometimesthat's what we have to do, right
, Like that's what we do inbusiness.
Kieron (07:09):
That's exactly what happened.
I mean, in solving that problemfor the cherishes and the
fundraising platform, we thought, well, this cost of moving
money from a donor's account toa charity's account is exactly
the same problem that retailersface in getting the money from
the customer's account to theretailers account.
I think that was again thatsecond light bulb moment of well
, if we solve this problem here,let's adapt and create an FCA
(07:32):
authorized payments business inthe UK and serve the commercial
sector too.
Jennifer (07:37):
Yeah Well, I mentioned early on.
I'm pulling the paper back uphere.
I'm like what do I do with thenotes that I just had?
I feel like I'm shufflingpapers today.
You've brought I mean hadseveral different companies here
and you brought them up.
What do we count?
Nine, was that right Nine?
Kieron (07:53):
It's nine with the co-founder.
We've been working togethersince 2000,.
Actually slightly before then,probably 1998, I think we first
started working together.
So yeah, a long time now.
Yeah 25 years in fact.
Jennifer (08:05):
Yeah, you've had quite the journey then.
I'm sure seen a lot of thingscoming and going in that yeah.
Kieron (08:10):
Yeah.
Jennifer (08:10):
In that.
So I would love to know maybesome of you talked about the
challenge when you're bringingthis and finding the need, but
maybe even back this up becauseI would love to know just what
you've learned being in thisspace, being an entrepreneur,
maybe some of the challengesyou've had that you've had to
learn to overcome, Because Ithink a lot of times people
coming into this space that weknow because we're entrepreneurs
(08:33):
and we know as buildingbusinesses, but people that are
getting in often look at the endresult.
They see you at the end andthey go, okay, this just
happened, right.
They don't know the journeythat's transpired from here to
here and all the hurdles and so,looking back, what were maybe
some of the bigger challengesand it may be working with a
co-founder, it may have beengoing into entrepreneur space,
(08:53):
Anything that comes to mind-yeah for sure.
Kieron (08:55):
I mean again, I started this in an odd way, going back
to 1998.
I was actually started life asa teacher on my professional
life as a teacher and I went outto the Middle East to run a
training institute over thereback in about 97, 98.
And they were looking for anexpansion to other countries
(09:16):
within the Middle East and said,can I put together a PDF
marketing brochure?
And this was as the internetwas really starting to explode
and I thought that's probablynot the best route into
marketing internationally.
So I ended up putting togethera website for them and that was
really what sparked the interestin running my first business.
So the first business was asmall loan from the bank for an
(09:38):
Apple Mac computer, working fromthe bedroom and starting to
build up a client list.
And you know, genuinely, that'show we started.
I remember again, some of thekind of highlights from that are
the lowlights and highlightsthe point of how do I reach my
customers?
So I know how to use thetechnology, but how do I get out
there?
Very different landscape interms of search engine
(10:00):
optimization, as you can imagine.
In fact, I famously talked topeople about how we essentially
gained Google as they firststarted, which was as simple
back in the very early days asputting the keywords in white
letters on a white backgroundand repeating them multiple
times on the page, and you couldprobably manage to stay on
Google for a day or two beforethey cottoned onto that
(10:22):
Obviously much more differentthese days.
Jennifer (10:23):
Right right.
Kieron (10:25):
So you know again, actually, just thinking about
the challenges over the last 25years, that's been a significant
one, just the changinglandscape in technology.
So we found SEO and contentcreation to gain positions on
and good rankings on Google Much, much easier, say, 15 years ago
than it is now.
Right, right, so you've got to,you know, you've got to
(10:48):
approach them up.
I mean, I said when I was firstdoing SEO, clearly, and there
was no social media, it was acompletely different approach to
marketing.
Yeah, so.
I think Just being aware of howthat digital landscape is
changing all the time and tryingto keep on top of it Is
probably one of the biggestchallenges.
Jennifer (11:04):
Yeah, well, interesting that you say that,
because I you know, when youwere talking about like in 90,
you know 90s of whatever yearyou were talking about, when we
didn't really have the internetWas kind of like okay.
So I go back to like when Istarted, because I started my
entrepreneur journey around 1998, 97 98.
My youngest was a baby at thattime and I went into Mary Kay at
(11:25):
that time.
Network marketing Jason, Ishared with you.
I was with him for 22 years.
But back then I I meanagreements when we would have
people come in.
We would have to fill them outand I was in Houston at the time
Houston Texas that thecorporate office was in Dallas.
So you're talking a good fourhour, three, four hour drive to
transport.
We would have to get things inat the end of the month and we
would have to fill the theseapplications out and somebody
(11:46):
we'd have to get a Director totake all the applications and
hurry up and over, drive themlike drive to Dallas to drop
them off.
You know we didn't have allthis submit online thing.
And even when I, when youmentioned you know how do you
attract your market, I rememberactually making cold calls, like
actually getting lists ofpeople in the area and calling
people.
I couldn't even imagine reallydoing that now, like doing that
(12:10):
kind of a way of buildingbecause it would like can you
even get phone numbers?
I don't know.
I mean, I guess maybe you can,but I bought list leads.
You know, since this time andit's hard to get all that
information anymore like backthen you had everybody's home
phone Because people hadlandlines and you could call the
landline.
We didn't call cells, you know.
So you're right, it has changedso much and we and for those of
(12:30):
us that have been in longenough, whatever industry we're
in right is entrepreneurs,business We've had to sort of
evolve the way we conduct ourown businesses, even even like a
camera.
We had to evolve again, right.
Kieron (12:42):
Completely, I mean in terms of that evolution.
One of the stats that I heardrecently is kind of dwell time
on home pages is down to 18seconds.
You know the time.
They're talking about the formsand so on and filling those in.
With one of the earlybusinesses after the web design
was doing company Formation soagain, I think probably 99, we
were the first online companyformation agent and that form, I
(13:05):
think, about people's attentionspan now online.
It was literally the form tocreate a company was all the
directors, all of their dresses,all of the dates of birth,
registered office, and it wasliterally one form.
It wasn't going through severalscreens, it was one form.
So you either completed it oryou started again.
And it really makes me gigglenow thinking about how you know
(13:26):
how long people stay on a pageand you think 18 seconds.
I'm gonna have to cover a lotof grounding, though, like yeah,
yeah, people.
Jennifer (13:31):
I feel like people don't have Attention span
anymore.
People are just like.
I can't see it fast.
We ain't looking at it, I'm noteven gonna read all that you
gotta be short.
Sweet to the point where I wasjust talking to somebody.
I met with a Marketing guytoday and we were talking about,
like, content creation.
I was specifically talkingabout the podcast and he's like,
yeah, you know, like you got toput out light and he was giving
me some advice.
(13:52):
Like try to put out like eightpieces of content.
They got to be short to getpeople.
I'm like, first, mom stock,hold on eight, eight, eight
things for one, eight, eight.
I'm like you want me to doeight?
I can barely get one.
It takes me that long to getthat ready.
And I got to do this shortenough to keep people's
attention span and make sureit's good to keep their
attention span.
That you're asking a lot now.
Like I mean, we had dial up,you know.
Kieron (14:14):
And the problem we're gonna get is course, everyone
using gay.
I should generate those eightpieces of content, oh my god.
I'm not talking to each other.
Jennifer (14:21):
Yeah, I think we should bring dial up back Just
for a short period of time toshow everybody what it was like
to have to wait for the internetto connect, and they'll maybe
They'll appreciate waiting for afew minutes to read something
you know.
Kieron (14:31):
Absolutely.
Do you know what's funny?
When you mentioned that, Ithink back to my students and I
remember being blown away thefirst time I was showing any of
them the internet and these arebusiness study students and I
typed in a query and and he went.
It's really.
We were on dial up, so youheard the boat I'm kicking off
in the background, but when theresults came back, it's really
good but takes a bit of time,doesn't?
I'm just thinking it's you know, that's teenagers.
(14:52):
They're still the same thesedays and I'm thinking this is
searching God knows how manymillions of pages and coming
back was.
I'm blown away and the studentsare going so a little bit slow.
Jennifer (15:01):
Yeah right, I know it's good.
Well, and that's, I think that'sthe great thing.
Those you get to see thistransformation of all and I
think the business is it reallydo good.
They do learn to Keep evolvingand stay with the times and
don't get so set on.
This is the way we've alwaysdone it.
This is the way it has to be.
We're gonna can.
I mean there's certain things Ithink you know, your principles
or your values, whatever isimportant to you.
(15:21):
Those should stay grounded.
But I think you can evolve thatto where you can keep.
You know, with technology andall of those things that are
going, I mean I think you knowwe just have to keep, or else we
would you get Weed it out.
You're not gonna be able tokeep up with everything that's
going on out there.
You know absolutely.
Kieron (15:35):
Absolutely good stuff, Good stuff so.
Jennifer (15:39):
Yeah, you got a lot of stuff going on.
I like I was, like I said,reading your bio, bio, which the
running stuff we talked aboutthat, and they the yoga, a
little bit about that.
I had another question.
I totally drew a blank on whatI wanted to ask you, a really
good one.
It's gonna come back to me in afew minutes, but I would love
to know we'll get on to anotherone, I'll come back to that I
would love to know, you know,aside from all these other
things we just talked about, allthe you know evolving, what
have you learned about yourselfspecifically through this whole
(16:01):
journey, as you know, movingfrom the, maybe even moving from
the teaching, to theentrepreneur space?
Kieron (16:10):
Patience, I think, and to have more of it, I think,
genuinely.
You know one of the things Ilearned from yoga and it was
fantastic my first yoga teachersaying you know it is a lifetime
journey.
I do Ash Tango and I think hewas saying you know, to get
through the whole of series A,probably set aside 10 years and
you just think you're 10 yearsas a timeframe seems a really
(16:32):
really long time.
But it's the same with thebusiness.
You know, people set up andthey expect instantly to be
generating revenue and profitand it does take time and that
first couple of years can bereally really hard and just
being in for the long play Ithink is very important.
So patience has become superimportant to me.
Times when it's really reallytough.
(16:52):
I think you've just got to sitback and say you know, if it's
meant to happen, it will happen.
If it isn't, it won't.
But that sounds very trite, butit is fundamentally the case.
There are things over whichyou've got control and things
you really don't.
Jennifer (17:04):
Yeah, no, and I think that that even goes along.
I think we can extend on thatand even say and just really
learning also how to relish inthe moment of the things that
are going on, right, like havingfinding some wins in those
things that are happening, sothat it makes that patience a
little bit easier.
I mean, patience is somethingyou do have to work on it, right
(17:24):
, like not everybody's justboring going.
Okay, I'm paid, especially, Ithink, with achievers, because I
think we're so driven tosucceed all the time that it's
hard to go, oh, like I'm notseeing it happening.
And oh, you know, like in allareas I mean, I still do that,
even, you know, as a coach, andI'm telling people, I still all
get up some days and I'm like,okay, I've had it, like this is
not doing what I want it to do,and I put in all this energy and
(17:45):
I'm like okay, and then usuallywhen that happens, I have to
just say I need a break, I needto pause for a few minutes.
I want to.
You know I don't like to makebig decisions that are big,
without sleeping on it andreally thinking, but it usually
means I need to pause, you know.
Kieron (17:57):
So yeah, I think, learning to find gratitude in
that middle is important.
I think that's really reallycritical.
(19:07):
And even today, just on thetraining to the office, you just
get a link, 10 posts fromsomebody saying how great the
service is and that sets you up.
It just changes your view onthe day I was coming into the
office thinking got loads on.
Today it's going to be reallyhectic and that pops up and, as
you say, it's taking somepleasure in those little things.
Jennifer (19:24):
Yeah, every day.
Well, and I think the more youdo that, the better you get at
doing that.
I know, when I first started Ialways say it's cliche, because
I try to talk to my you know myclients about gratitude and it's
like, oh, they've heard thiseverywhere and I'm like it's not
really about just, sometimesyou just got to do things to do
things.
Sometimes you just got to do itto build the discipline.
And you know, and for me I'm avery disciplined person when I
started doing a lot of gratitudework, that for me, was really
(19:46):
just about doing the disciplinein that, because I could not.
I was in you know, I always sayI didn't really grow up in a
home where we were kind of seethe bright side of everything,
and so I didn't really have thatin my in my bones and so I tend
to would look at things andalways be a pessimist and so and
I didn't like that, I reallydidn't like that about myself.
And so I really went to workwhen I started doing my coaching
(20:08):
on how can I change my outlookon things, and so the gratitude
was one of the things I had toreally work on, but I made it
more of like a disciplinepractice for myself, in that I
would write it down on my to-dolist every day to purposely go
in and try to find things Icould be grateful for.
And so I'd write it down.
And, karen, I'll tell you, itwas so cheesy.
I would write things like I'mgrateful for my cups, I'm
(20:30):
grateful for my plates, I'mgrateful for forks.
Kieron (20:34):
But that's it.
Jennifer (20:35):
I'm grateful for a front door that locks you know
like, but the thing is as cheesyas and cliche as that sounded
it got me into the habit of.
Really it changed the way I wasthinking.
It wasn't the only thing thatchanged them, but it was a piece
of the puzzle that helped me tostop getting focused on things
I didn't like, things I didn'twant, and really start looking
(20:56):
at the things in my day that Icould find that brought blessing
into my life.
Right, and then that gets usback to and that's how it helps,
I think, for me with thepatience on going is that when
I'm getting boggled I can go hey, but this happened today and
this is why I do what I do.
Kieron (21:13):
And I think you know that's also about objectivity
and perspective.
I think those are really reallykey to when we got started with
this, we saw a very strongvirtuous circle of charities,
donors and fundraisers who's youknow very being is about doing
amazing things.
That's what those people get upand do every day, whether
they're donating, givinggenerously, running marathons,
(21:35):
baking cakes, and the charities.
Clearly, the people operatingthe charities are going to work
every day, making a realdifference.
So we saw that virtuous circleand thought there's a space in
there for a fundraising platformto be equally virtuous and do
this 100% free and fund thatthrough another model.
It was a model that existed.
Corporate sponsorship wasn'tanything new.
(21:55):
But talking about objectivityand perspective, if I ever need
a bit of that, all I need to dois visit our fundraising
platform and there's 55 storieson there and then you know you
read two of them and you go.
Okay, you know my life mightseem a bit tough today, but look
at what these people are doingand what they're achieving and I
think that perspective is justso valuable.
Yeah.
Jennifer (22:16):
Well and to your point , just to really emphasize and
hone in on what you're saying,there is, though, you're taking
the proactive step to say, golook that right, like and I
think that's where it comes intolike taking the step to do
something about and not sittingin that you know if you're in
that state of mind, right Likedoing something completely
yourself out of that state ofmind.
So so many, so many takeawaysin all of this I think that are
(22:38):
really really good.
So good stuff, good stuff, okay.
So I'd love to know because youare a runner and we talked
about this and everybody knows,follows me, knows that stuff
goes on in my house, has beengone for many, many years.
I would love to know the pair,some of the parallels, like how
that's helped you in with yourbusinesses and with you, know,
navigating all the complexitiesthat come with owning businesses
(22:58):
and bringing these businessesup and running.
Kieron (23:02):
A couple of really obvious ones.
I guess, talking about patients, you've, you've, everyone's
heard this, the, the quote it'sa marathon, not a sprint.
So there's the same thing there, for sure, and I'm definitely
not a sprinter.
I mean, my kids laugh at mewhen I run, run, run quickly or
try to run quickly.
I remember doing, you know, the, the children's sports day,
joining with the parents.
From there I think I came last,and you know I'm really keen on
(23:24):
running but I'm not a fastrunner.
So for me, I think, a couple ofthings that are really, really
important.
One is it takes me out ofeverything else.
Genuinely, I call it my movingmeditation.
I'm sure I'm not alone in that,but I think just that
physicality of it being such arhythmic thing is really really
nice and stopping your brain fora bit.
But then, ironically orparadoxically, a lot of the
(23:46):
problems that I solve in thebusiness are solved out on a run
, because it is giving your mindthat space to stop thinking and
and actually start thinking, ifthat makes any sense at all.
But by not consciously, notconsciously dwelling on
something I think.
Often other solutions come toyou because you you're not
fixated.
So I think that I think the theperseverance you know, done a
(24:09):
couple of marathons.
I'm certainly not an altarrunner and I've not done dozens
and dozens of them, but juststarting that and knowing that
there's no option other thanfinishing, at least in your own
mind, is a really good metaphorfor business as well.
This is, it's non-negotiable.
The gun's gone off and I'm notgoing to stop until I get to the
finish line.
You got to get to the finishline right, you can't sit down
(24:31):
and move the race Exactly, andand again, you know, just going
back, it doesn't really matterhow long it takes to get there,
you're going to get there.
So I think that's been really,really important.
Jennifer (24:42):
Yeah, that's good too, and I think too you know, I
don't know you probably feelthis way from from the runner
perspective that because youkind of said you know the
mindset of you got to finish, Ithink it's it is all mindset
right, because I've told thisstory several times about how
like we would run, you know,like multiple races on a week,
and we might do a half marathonon Saturday and turn around to
(25:02):
another one on Sunday, or myhusband's done like four
marathons consecutively over dayover, four days over, like a
holiday weekend, crazy.
Kieron (25:09):
I know, it's a hundred miles.
Jennifer (25:10):
There you go.
You just broke it up.
But there would be times likewe'd go run like a half and then
I'd get up the next day andhave to go run like a 5k and I'd
be like I can't do this, Like Ijust can't.
But I got to finish, I got toget to the end, right.
And then there'd be other days.
I'm like I got this, like I'vegot a marathon, I'm going to
have a marathon, I'm going to gorun the next one next day, and
I got it right, so it reallybecomes about the mindset, and I
(25:32):
always feel like you know howwe do one thing is sort of how
we do all things, and so I thinkthat I feel like you know, when
you do these athletic things onthe side, they really do teach
you these great life skills thatyou can really apply to all
areas of your life, whether itbe your business or personal.
You know and in your caseyou're talking about patience
you know learning, that you gotto get to the finish line, how
long it takes you there, and ifyou have to carry that same
(25:54):
mindset into what you're doingin your business, it's we're
going to take it there.
Whatever it takes to get itthere, we're going to do it.
Kieron (26:00):
And again circling back to what we started talking about
and that changing landscapesthat we're operating in.
You know I'm getting older, somy personal bests are behind me
in terms of time.
But you just said differentpersonal bests.
It's how many miles, orwhatever it might be, how many
days a week am I going to run?
There's always a new personalbest, so it's adapting to
changing circumstances, tothat's good, all right, another
(26:22):
question real quick.
Jennifer (26:23):
I'd love to know and this is my favorite question
I've been asking everybody it'sfun because I just always I get
kind of the same thing, justdifferent verbiage around it.
I'd love to know in your mindor in your words, what do you
feel like a success for you?
What does that look like?
Kieron (26:39):
Wow, I'm going to probably miss.
Quote Steve Jobs.
Jennifer (26:44):
It's all good We'll be it'll be close enough.
Kieron (26:48):
But I mean, he actually used the word wonderful in the
quote that I'm about to use aswell.
So that was quite nice and Ithink it went something.
Like you know, I don't want todie being the richest man in the
cemetery, I just want to kindof finish the day thinking we've
done something wonderful and Ithink that is just so important.
It sounds very grandiose, butgenuinely, I think when we
finish the day today, forexample, we've just rolled out
(27:08):
one of the services completelyfree of charge to charities that
feels like a great day for me,because there's something that
they can use that's going tocost them nothing and helps them
generate more revenue.
So we won't earn anything fromthat.
We will, certainly in terms ofyou know I guess kudos is
probably the wrong word but interms of our reputation, it's
great for us.
But I think much more than that, it's just about thinking well.
(27:31):
That might make a difference.
So I think that's the mostimportant thing.
Jennifer (27:34):
I love it and I feel like you know I've had several
recordings I've done today Ifeel like we all sort of kind of
say the same thing.
We just have a different way ofexpressing, but I think it
always ends up coming back to,you know, making impact and
being able to do what we loveand do it on our terms, so to
speak, right, completely Makingour day what we want it to be.
I love it because I just feellike that question it really
gets to the center of what isthis for you, because other
(27:57):
people are listening to this andthey're like why do these
people do what they do?
Really and that's what we tryto show on this show is like why
do people do the things thatthey do and what's moving them
to go forward?
So really good stuff, reallygood stuff.
Okay Well, this has been awesome.
You're doing cool things.
I love it.
I love that you're doing yourworkouts and all getting all the
good stuff in over there,because I think that is
(28:17):
important part to our well-being.
It keeps us all together, youknow, and makes all this other
stuff in life so much easier.
But I'd love to ask you acouple of fun questions, because
I know you're a drummer andyou've got all these other cool
things you've done, so thatbeing first Indy Rock Band so
I'd love to know where you guysplayed.
Like were you all in theselittle small gigs?
(28:37):
Did y'all get to travel?
Tell me a little bit about thatreal quick.
Kieron (28:40):
Tell you what my proudest moment actually, funny
enough, we were watching adocumentary about Blondie coming
to England and Concord, England, which was on the BBC the last
couple of weeks and it wasseeing a couple of the venues
come up on that documentary thateveryone's played and I'm
really proud to say we played atthe marquee in London and we
played at Dingwalls in London.
So they're really great venues,Very cool.
(29:01):
Funnily enough, the band I wasin was a bit of a Blondie sound
alike though the singer andguitarist would kill me for
saying that because they hatedany references to it but it kind
of was.
You know we had a girl singer,guitar based drums and very much
that kind of scene early 90s,late 80s, so a little after
Blondie's, probably peak, butgreat fun, really great fun.
(29:24):
That's fun.
Jennifer (29:25):
Well, and Blondie was obviously, you know, did a great
job, so it's not necessarily abad thing right?
It would be bad if she was likeLast year, 2023, still playing.
I know I know Some of these oldsingers are still going.
It's fine, she does, she stillgoes.
I mean, it's fun.
Kieron (29:43):
And there was a couple of spots on the documentary from
Glastonbury.
I think in Crockett Crackie.
She could still belt them outas well.
What a voice, Amazing.
That's so great.
Jennifer (29:51):
So great, awesome, all right.
So I'd love to know.
This is Blondie.
This is my one question I haveto ask you because I know you're
a runner and I know you told methat you, you know you have a
specific diet that you follow,but I'd let to know, like the
one guilty pleasure, like what'sthe one thing that's like I
really like this and I shouldn'teat it.
Kieron (30:08):
I've got a terrible sweet tooth, so if I can find
vegan versions of anything sweet, it's that there's a restaurant
that whenever I was in New Yorkcalled Peace Food that does
some amazing vegan desserts andof course I shouldn't probably
say this, probably offend allthe viewers and is but American
portions.
So really nice big place.
Jennifer (30:31):
There's a place here they have two locations, it's
called Spiral Diner that my kidslove and it's basically like
the vegan vegetarian food.
So when we do Thanksgiving wehave to kind of do potluck,
because I got one kid vegetarian, one's, one's vegan, the other
one's not.
We're not.
So we do sort of a potluck butthey always come over and
they'll have, like they broughttheir.
They had a pumpkin pie from theSpiral Diner and they had.
(30:54):
But then the this is mydaughter's husband.
He'll make some food too.
But they love this Spiral Diner.
Like there.
It's like a, it's like an oldschool diner, like the diner
diner, you see, but it's gotlike desserts in the diner thing
and they make food and stuff.
And my kids, my son, every it'snot close to her house and
every time his birthday rollsaround he's like I want to go to
the Spiral Diner, that's theone that eats meat.
(31:14):
But he wants to go to theSpiral Diner and I'm like it's
not even by our house.
Kieron (31:18):
You know, so you probably would like it.
Yep, Sounds good.
No, I mean the peace food.
I think they do a crumble overthere.
It's like a apple crumble or araspberry crumble.
It's just fantastic,particularly after a marathon.
Jennifer (31:30):
Yeah, Highly recommend it.
Yeah, that's good.
I like pie.
I'm a.
I'm a big, I'm a big cherry pie.
I would.
That's my favorite cherry piewith ice cream.
I like it.
Kieron (31:37):
I don't eat it very often Sounds good.
Jennifer (31:40):
All right, I'd love to know.
Maybe a book you have a bookthat had kind of a maybe a
profound effect on you,something you remember reading
that was like that's the one.
Kieron (31:50):
Everything by Murakami, essentially, haruki Murakami, a
big, big fan.
Dance, dance, dance, dance, Ithink, was the first one that I
read.
I don't know, I just love hiswriting.
There's so many times that I'lljust go back to the beginning
of a paragraph and reread asentence.
I think that it's justexquisitely written.
So now I really, really loveMurakami.
Jennifer (32:09):
Very cool, Okay.
One last question I want to askyou, because I know you have
your routine.
I would love to know are you amorning workout or afternoon
workout?
When do you do your?
Kieron (32:17):
workouts.
That's changed again.
Funny how life changes.
There was a time when I couldnever run in the morning.
I absolutely hated it.
It was just the worst thing forme.
And now, bizarrely, I tend torun before breakfast and yoga in
the evenings, which, again, forany Ash Tanga, they will howl
if they hear that, because it'syou're supposed to do it the
other way around.
Ash Tanga in the morning.
Anything else like that that'sgood.
Jennifer (32:38):
And you know what I used to be like that too.
I was not a morning person, soeverything I'd have to do it
would be reverse.
And now, like I have to get mywork done, I don't do it
necessarily before breakfast,because we do walk dogs and all
that, and then I do get myworkout in.
But, interestingly, I read thisbook it's called the Power of
Wind, by the Sleep Doctor, andhe talks about how we operate
(33:01):
off circadian rhythm and it'sfunny because I'm a lion and so
my circadian rhythm.
It says, basically I shouldwork out like five o'clock in
the afternoon, because that'swhen I have kind of my, my
sinking spell.
But here's the thing when I'mdressed, I'm dressed.
I'm not going to get up, getdressed and then go work out and
have to get dressed again andI'm like, no, that's five
o'clock in the afternoon.
(33:21):
Like I got networking, I gotthings we not doing.
All that it's just doing in themorning.
So I like my morning, I get itdone, I knock it out and it's
over.
Kieron (33:31):
I think one of the handy hints for morning runs that I
read a while ago in a runnersmagazine was get everything laid
out by the side of the bed sothere's no excuse you can't do
that.
Oh, I've got to go and findthis and I've got to go and find
that.
I'll just get back into bed.
So if you train us and you'reshort, so they're by the bed,
you step into them and, like youknow, you just go, that's good.
Jennifer (33:49):
That's good Bad sense that you have that problem
getting out the door.
You've been doing it for a longtime now.
You it's like I was tellingsomebody I maybe it was on the
previous side told him I saidyou know, like I don't know
about you, but it's got to be.
For me, exercise is really notnegotiable, so I don't have to.
I don't have that.
I really have to tell myselfnot to do it, like I have to
tell myself sometimes, just takea day off, I'm tired, I need to
rest, like I'm physically tired.
(34:10):
But I will tell you I got a newwatch, a new garment and this
one's pretty nice because it hasa.
It's a coach, I like it.
The darn thing will tell me,like every time I go run and I
don't and I told you the daywhen we were off I don't really
run that long anymore, so Imight go out and do like four or
five miles it will tell meit'll come back and it'll be
like you need 30 hours ofrecovery.
So I'll be like okay, I guessI'd better tell myself we're
(34:30):
going to take a day off tomorrowand we have rest.
We need to rest.
Kieron (34:34):
The problem is I don't.
I don't agree with Garmin'srecovery times.
I think they're reallyoverstated.
They're really lovely excuse totake.
Jennifer (34:42):
I'm not going to follow you.
That's my point, but I do lookat it sometimes.
Kieron (34:47):
I have finished yoga practice once and it said right
K 72 hours until you.
I was, and I think it mighthave even been a restorative
practice.
Jennifer (34:55):
so I was kind of yeah, the only time I've seen it do,
that is when I've done A longerrun.
It hasn't done it when I'vedone like two or three miles or
if I do my regular work.
It only does that every time Igo, but for enough.
It'll come back and it'll belike you need to rest.
But like you I don't really payattention.
I'm making kind of a joke aboutbecause I think it's funny,
because it'll tell me I'll comeup, you need 72 hours of
(35:17):
recovery.
I'm like that's five days.
I'm not resting that long.
I'm going to be a vegetable infive days, you know, but I think
it's funny.
So my point to that is thatevery now and then I have to
physically tell myself you'retired today, jennifer, just take
a breather.
You know what I mean likebreathe.
Kieron (35:32):
I had somebody stop in front of me on the King's Road
in Chelsea when I was running tothe office the other week and
they just pulled up sharp infront of my end up tearing a
muscle in my calf, stopping toavoid running into them.
So now my garment is saying Iam detraining because I've not
been able to run for it for acouple of weeks, killing me.
My watch is really beating meup about.
It says you detraining, youdetraining.
(35:52):
I'm not, I'm injured, leave mealone.
Jennifer (35:55):
I don't mind us tell me to move, it'll say get up and
move.
I'm like we stop being bossy.
Kieron (36:01):
Exactly, I love it.
Jennifer (36:02):
I love it.
Well, this has been fun, karen.
If our audience wants to get intouch with you, maybe they want
to learn a bit a little bitmore about your payment
processing and what you've gotgoing on running.
I don't know.
Maybe they want to figuresomething out.
Where would we like to sendthem?
Kieron (36:14):
Simplest place is wonderful dot code at UK, so
very easy domain name toremember, and the charity
fundraising platform is atwonderful dot org.
You can tell I've been in theweb business and domain name
registration for a long time.
Jennifer (36:25):
It's all good, it's all whatever works.
Hey, right easy to remembereasy to get to right.
It works so great.
We'll make sure when we getthis done and we get all the
bells and whistles on there,we'll get the websites in there
too, so people know where tofind you and stuff.
So it's been fun.
Thank you for sharing with usgreat.
Tell us a little bit about yourjourney and, yeah, you're doing
awesome stuff.
Kieron (36:46):
My pleasure.
Thanks again, really reallygreat for the opportunity.
Lovely to meet.
Jennifer (36:50):
We do want to say to our audience, of course if you
enjoy the show, please be sureyou give us a rating over at
apple.
Check us out on YouTube.
You can hit that subscribebutton.
And, as I always say, in orderto live, extraordinary must
start, and every start beginswith a decision.
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Dreamers.
I'm your host, jennifer Loading, and we are talking to the
achievers, the creators, themagic makers and the dreamers.
These are our friends, theseare your friends and they are
living the extraordinary.
I'm excited about my guesttoday.
He has a passion for pushingboundaries and doing good.
Over the past 25 years, he andhis co-founder have initiated,
(00:46):
expanded and successfully exitednine businesses, two of which
reached NASDAQ listed status Onthe boardroom.
He's an enthusiastic runnerwith a love for yoga and music
making.
I found out a fun fact abouthim that he used to be a drummer
for an indie rock band, whichis kind of fun.
So I went through your profileand looked at all that.
So we are going to be in for atreat today.
(01:07):
But before I welcome him on, Ido need to do a quick shout out
to our sponsors.
This episode is brought to youby Walt Mills Productions.
Need to add excitement to yourYouTube videos or some expert
hands for editing?
Look no further.
Walt Mills is the solutionyou've been searching for.
Walt is not only your go-to guyfor spicing up content.
He's the force behind athriving film production company
(01:29):
with numerous titles in thepipeline, always on the lookout
for raw talent.
Walt is eager to collaborate onfilm and internet productions.
With a background deeply rootedin entertainment and promotion,
walt Mills leverages years ofskills to give you the spotlight
you deserve.
Want to learn more about Waltand his work?
Head on over toWaltMillsProductionsnet and let
(01:50):
your content shine.
Okay, so now that we got allthat done, we can get our guests
on the show.
I'm excited.
It's going to be fun.
So, kieran, it's going to befun, kieran James.
He's the visionary CEO andfounder of wonderful, a company
revolutionizing instant bankpayment technology with its
commitment to simplicity, speedand security.
With three decadesentrepreneurial experience,
(02:13):
kieran is not only shaping thefintech landscape, but also
serving as a non-executivedirector at the fundraising
regulator.
He's passion-wise and fosteringpositive social impact,
supporting charitable causes andempowering fundraisers for
maximum impact.
His mission is to establishwonderful payment as the
foremost instant bank paymentprovider in the UK and beyond.
(02:33):
So, kieran, welcome to the show.
Super glad to have you heretoday.
Kieron (02:37):
Thank you for having me, Jenny, for my pleasure it's
going to be fun.
Jennifer (02:40):
I had to get all that out.
It's like so much to talk aboutin the first few minutes of
this podcast.
Kieron (02:44):
Yeah, I feel like you've really set me up there now.
I've got a lot to live up to,so fingers crossed.
Jennifer (02:49):
That's good.
I know I love these bios.
I always have fun with them andyou know we probably said this
the other day I love AI too,because it takes that content
and it makes it all wordedreally well for me, so it makes
my job easy.
You know, before AI came out,I'd have to sit and I'd have to,
like, craft these bios up.
And that's my favorite partreally is how do I showcase you
guys and shine the light right,like, how do I make you look
really good here?
(03:09):
I would have fun creating these, but I would spend so much time
trying to make sure I got theright words and I didn't mess
this up and now I'm like copypaste, put it in.
Let's reword it the wayJennifer would say it a little
bit change the words so theysound like Jennifer.
We got it, we're good.
Kieron (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's amazing.
I mean, some of the advances inAI.
We're using it for some of thesupport services on our website
and it frankly has saved us anabsolute fortune in terms of
time and resources Brilliant.
Jennifer (03:33):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Sometimes it's just goodbecause you've got the, you know
you'll have the message, butyou don't quite have the
vernacular right, Like you justdon't quite have the wording,
and it can help you with that,just that little bit of that
wording.
Kieron (03:45):
Exactly.
Jennifer (03:46):
All right.
Well, I'm excited.
Let's talk about what you gotgoing on.
So let's talk about, first ofall, wonderful.
Let's talk about what this is,so our audience knows what it is
that you're doing here.
Kieron (03:55):
Okay, yeah, so laterally we're in payments, but it's
been a very securitist routeinto payment.
So I'll share a little bit ofthe story, if that's okay.
We kicked off in 2016 and atthe time you mentioned running
in the intro and thanks for themention on that.
I was doing the New Yorkmarathon I think the second time
for a charity called Mind inthe UK, raising money for Mind
(04:19):
and basically using afundraising platform in the UK a
very prominent one and, I think, just a little concerned by the
amount of money that wasleaking from that platform into
various different directions,whether that was the cost of
payment processing or deductionsfrom Gift Aid, which is a tax
incentive that really is inplace to benefit charities, or
elsewhere.
(04:39):
So what we did at the time waswe thought can we set up an
alternative fundraising platformand see whether we can get 100%
of the donations to go tocharity?
This was a completelyphilanthropic project.
So I was running a telecomsbusiness at the time, spoke to
my colleagues in the businessand said look, lunch breaks
(05:00):
coffee.
I always do fancy having you goup building a fundraising
platform.
Odd thing to suggest, but theyloved it.
Everyone got really excitedabout it, I think because it was
tech for good in a genuinesense.
So we set about building thisplatform and then essentially
what happened was it took us alittle while to get the
charities to understand that ourmotivations were entirely
(05:20):
philanthropic.
They were a little nervousabout getting on board and once
they did, we have a gain ofsight in the UK called the money
saving expert, apparently oneof the top 100 most trafficked
websites in the UK.
They endorsed the platform andsaid this was a fabulous thing
and suddenly that kind ofskepticism and nervousness
amongst the charities justevaporated and they came on
(05:42):
board in really big numbers.
That then created a successparadox.
So we were running thisplatform completely free, funded
through corporate sponsorship.
After about a year we got a bankonboard to try and cover some
of the costs and they helped usout.
But essentially as we grew,those costs of processing
payments just grew along withthe platform.
(06:03):
So we found that was creating areally low ceiling on our
impact and reach and we thoughtwhat can we do to solve this
problem?
And just in time, along came anew technology open banking.
So we adopted that, we movedaway from card processing for
donations and suddenly we got asolution to the problem.
So that is probably a slightlylonger winded way of explaining
(06:26):
how we got to what we're doingtoday, but that's the route.
Jennifer (06:30):
That's awesome.
Yeah, no, and it's interesting.
I think that we may have talkedabout this off camera when we
met, but I think it'sinteresting how companies come
about.
I always feel like the best wayis, when you're trying to solve
a problem, you figure out wherethe bottleneck is in something.
And it was somebody I don'tknow who it was Somebody I was
talking to recently even saidthat he said he was trying to
determine who his client was andhe said I was the client.
(06:51):
I was trying to figure out thesolution.
When I tried to figure out thesolution then it became about
there's got to be other peopleout there that need what I have
because it was a problem for me.
So I think that sometimesthat's what we have to do, right
, Like that's what we do inbusiness.
Kieron (07:09):
That's exactly what happened.
I mean, in solving that problemfor the cherishes and the
fundraising platform, we thought, well, this cost of moving
money from a donor's account toa charity's account is exactly
the same problem that retailersface in getting the money from
the customer's account to theretailers account.
I think that was again thatsecond light bulb moment of well
, if we solve this problem here,let's adapt and create an FCA
(07:32):
authorized payments business inthe UK and serve the commercial
sector too.
Jennifer (07:37):
Yeah Well, I mentioned early on.
I'm pulling the paper back uphere.
I'm like what do I do with thenotes that I just had?
I feel like I'm shufflingpapers today.
You've brought I mean hadseveral different companies here
and you brought them up.
What do we count?
Nine, was that right Nine?
Kieron (07:53):
It's nine with the co-founder.
We've been working togethersince 2000,.
Actually slightly before then,probably 1998, I think we first
started working together.
So yeah, a long time now.
Yeah 25 years in fact.
Jennifer (08:05):
Yeah, you've had quite the journey then.
I'm sure seen a lot of thingscoming and going in that yeah.
Kieron (08:10):
Yeah.
Jennifer (08:10):
In that.
So I would love to know maybesome of you talked about the
challenge when you're bringingthis and finding the need, but
maybe even back this up becauseI would love to know just what
you've learned being in thisspace, being an entrepreneur,
maybe some of the challengesyou've had that you've had to
learn to overcome, Because Ithink a lot of times people
coming into this space that weknow because we're entrepreneurs
(08:33):
and we know as buildingbusinesses, but people that are
getting in often look at the endresult.
They see you at the end andthey go, okay, this just
happened, right.
They don't know the journeythat's transpired from here to
here and all the hurdles and so,looking back, what were maybe
some of the bigger challengesand it may be working with a
co-founder, it may have beengoing into entrepreneur space,
(08:53):
Anything that comes to mind-yeah for sure.
Kieron (08:55):
I mean again, I started this in an odd way, going back
to 1998.
I was actually started life asa teacher on my professional
life as a teacher and I went outto the Middle East to run a
training institute over thereback in about 97, 98.
And they were looking for anexpansion to other countries
(09:16):
within the Middle East and said,can I put together a PDF
marketing brochure?
And this was as the internetwas really starting to explode
and I thought that's probablynot the best route into
marketing internationally.
So I ended up putting togethera website for them and that was
really what sparked the interestin running my first business.
So the first business was asmall loan from the bank for an
(09:38):
Apple Mac computer, working fromthe bedroom and starting to
build up a client list.
And you know, genuinely, that'show we started.
I remember again, some of thekind of highlights from that are
the lowlights and highlightsthe point of how do I reach my
customers?
So I know how to use thetechnology, but how do I get out
there?
Very different landscape interms of search engine
(10:00):
optimization, as you can imagine.
In fact, I famously talked topeople about how we essentially
gained Google as they firststarted, which was as simple
back in the very early days asputting the keywords in white
letters on a white backgroundand repeating them multiple
times on the page, and you couldprobably manage to stay on
Google for a day or two beforethey cottoned onto that
(10:22):
Obviously much more differentthese days.
Jennifer (10:23):
Right right.
Kieron (10:25):
So you know again, actually, just thinking about
the challenges over the last 25years, that's been a significant
one, just the changinglandscape in technology.
So we found SEO and contentcreation to gain positions on
and good rankings on Google Much, much easier, say, 15 years ago
than it is now.
Right, right, so you've got to,you know, you've got to
(10:48):
approach them up.
I mean, I said when I was firstdoing SEO, clearly, and there
was no social media, it was acompletely different approach to
marketing.
Yeah, so.
I think Just being aware of howthat digital landscape is
changing all the time and tryingto keep on top of it Is
probably one of the biggestchallenges.
Jennifer (11:04):
Yeah, well, interesting that you say that,
because I you know, when youwere talking about like in 90,
you know 90s of whatever yearyou were talking about, when we
didn't really have the internetWas kind of like okay.
So I go back to like when Istarted, because I started my
entrepreneur journey around 1998, 97 98.
My youngest was a baby at thattime and I went into Mary Kay at
(11:25):
that time.
Network marketing Jason, Ishared with you.
I was with him for 22 years.
But back then I I meanagreements when we would have
people come in.
We would have to fill them outand I was in Houston at the time
Houston Texas that thecorporate office was in Dallas.
So you're talking a good fourhour, three, four hour drive to
transport.
We would have to get things inat the end of the month and we
would have to fill the theseapplications out and somebody
(11:46):
we'd have to get a Director totake all the applications and
hurry up and over, drive themlike drive to Dallas to drop
them off.
You know we didn't have allthis submit online thing.
And even when I, when youmentioned you know how do you
attract your market, I rememberactually making cold calls, like
actually getting lists ofpeople in the area and calling
people.
I couldn't even imagine reallydoing that now, like doing that
(12:10):
kind of a way of buildingbecause it would like can you
even get phone numbers?
I don't know.
I mean, I guess maybe you can,but I bought list leads.
You know, since this time andit's hard to get all that
information anymore like backthen you had everybody's home
phone Because people hadlandlines and you could call the
landline.
We didn't call cells, you know.
So you're right, it has changedso much and we and for those of
(12:30):
us that have been in longenough, whatever industry we're
in right is entrepreneurs,business We've had to sort of
evolve the way we conduct ourown businesses, even even like a
camera.
We had to evolve again, right.
Kieron (12:42):
Completely, I mean in terms of that evolution.
One of the stats that I heardrecently is kind of dwell time
on home pages is down to 18seconds.
You know the time.
They're talking about the formsand so on and filling those in.
With one of the earlybusinesses after the web design
was doing company Formation soagain, I think probably 99, we
were the first online companyformation agent and that form, I
(13:05):
think, about people's attentionspan now online.
It was literally the form tocreate a company was all the
directors, all of their dresses,all of the dates of birth,
registered office, and it wasliterally one form.
It wasn't going through severalscreens, it was one form.
So you either completed it oryou started again.
And it really makes me gigglenow thinking about how you know
(13:26):
how long people stay on a pageand you think 18 seconds.
I'm gonna have to cover a lotof grounding, though, like yeah,
yeah, people.
Jennifer (13:31):
I feel like people don't have Attention span
anymore.
People are just like.
I can't see it fast.
We ain't looking at it, I'm noteven gonna read all that you
gotta be short.
Sweet to the point where I wasjust talking to somebody.
I met with a Marketing guytoday and we were talking about,
like, content creation.
I was specifically talkingabout the podcast and he's like,
yeah, you know, like you got toput out light and he was giving
me some advice.
(13:52):
Like try to put out like eightpieces of content.
They got to be short to getpeople.
I'm like, first, mom stock,hold on eight, eight, eight
things for one, eight, eight.
I'm like you want me to doeight?
I can barely get one.
It takes me that long to getthat ready.
And I got to do this shortenough to keep people's
attention span and make sureit's good to keep their
attention span.
That you're asking a lot now.
Like I mean, we had dial up,you know.
Kieron (14:14):
And the problem we're gonna get is course, everyone
using gay.
I should generate those eightpieces of content, oh my god.
I'm not talking to each other.
Jennifer (14:21):
Yeah, I think we should bring dial up back Just
for a short period of time toshow everybody what it was like
to have to wait for the internetto connect, and they'll maybe
They'll appreciate waiting for afew minutes to read something
you know.
Kieron (14:31):
Absolutely.
Do you know what's funny?
When you mentioned that, Ithink back to my students and I
remember being blown away thefirst time I was showing any of
them the internet and these arebusiness study students and I
typed in a query and and he went.
It's really.
We were on dial up, so youheard the boat I'm kicking off
in the background, but when theresults came back, it's really
good but takes a bit of time,doesn't?
I'm just thinking it's you know, that's teenagers.
(14:52):
They're still the same thesedays and I'm thinking this is
searching God knows how manymillions of pages and coming
back was.
I'm blown away and the studentsare going so a little bit slow.
Jennifer (15:01):
Yeah right, I know it's good.
Well, and that's, I think that'sthe great thing.
Those you get to see thistransformation of all and I
think the business is it reallydo good.
They do learn to Keep evolvingand stay with the times and
don't get so set on.
This is the way we've alwaysdone it.
This is the way it has to be.
We're gonna can.
I mean there's certain things Ithink you know, your principles
or your values, whatever isimportant to you.
(15:21):
Those should stay grounded.
But I think you can evolve thatto where you can keep.
You know, with technology andall of those things that are
going, I mean I think you knowwe just have to keep, or else we
would you get Weed it out.
You're not gonna be able tokeep up with everything that's
going on out there.
You know absolutely.
Kieron (15:35):
Absolutely good stuff, Good stuff so.
Jennifer (15:39):
Yeah, you got a lot of stuff going on.
I like I was, like I said,reading your bio, bio, which the
running stuff we talked aboutthat, and they the yoga, a
little bit about that.
I had another question.
I totally drew a blank on whatI wanted to ask you, a really
good one.
It's gonna come back to me in afew minutes, but I would love
to know we'll get on to anotherone, I'll come back to that I
would love to know, you know,aside from all these other
things we just talked about, allthe you know evolving, what
have you learned about yourselfspecifically through this whole
(16:01):
journey, as you know, movingfrom the, maybe even moving from
the teaching, to theentrepreneur space?
Kieron (16:10):
Patience, I think, and to have more of it, I think,
genuinely.
You know one of the things Ilearned from yoga and it was
fantastic my first yoga teachersaying you know it is a lifetime
journey.
I do Ash Tango and I think hewas saying you know, to get
through the whole of series A,probably set aside 10 years and
you just think you're 10 yearsas a timeframe seems a really
(16:32):
really long time.
But it's the same with thebusiness.
You know, people set up andthey expect instantly to be
generating revenue and profitand it does take time and that
first couple of years can bereally really hard and just
being in for the long play Ithink is very important.
So patience has become superimportant to me.
Times when it's really reallytough.
(16:52):
I think you've just got to sitback and say you know, if it's
meant to happen, it will happen.
If it isn't, it won't.
But that sounds very trite, butit is fundamentally the case.
There are things over whichyou've got control and things
you really don't.
Jennifer (17:04):
Yeah, no, and I think that that even goes along.
I think we can extend on thatand even say and just really
learning also how to relish inthe moment of the things that
are going on, right, like havingfinding some wins in those
things that are happening, sothat it makes that patience a
little bit easier.
I mean, patience is somethingyou do have to work on it, right
(17:24):
, like not everybody's justboring going.
Okay, I'm paid, especially, Ithink, with achievers, because I
think we're so driven tosucceed all the time that it's
hard to go, oh, like I'm notseeing it happening.
And oh, you know, like in allareas I mean, I still do that,
even, you know, as a coach, andI'm telling people, I still all
get up some days and I'm like,okay, I've had it, like this is
not doing what I want it to do,and I put in all this energy and
(17:45):
I'm like okay, and then usuallywhen that happens, I have to
just say I need a break, I needto pause for a few minutes.
I want to.
You know I don't like to makebig decisions that are big,
without sleeping on it andreally thinking, but it usually
means I need to pause, you know.
Kieron (17:57):
So yeah, I think, learning to find gratitude in
that middle is important.
I think that's really reallycritical.
(19:07):
And even today, just on thetraining to the office, you just
get a link, 10 posts fromsomebody saying how great the
service is and that sets you up.
It just changes your view onthe day I was coming into the
office thinking got loads on.
Today it's going to be reallyhectic and that pops up and, as
you say, it's taking somepleasure in those little things.
Jennifer (19:24):
Yeah, every day.
Well, and I think the more youdo that, the better you get at
doing that.
I know, when I first started Ialways say it's cliche, because
I try to talk to my you know myclients about gratitude and it's
like, oh, they've heard thiseverywhere and I'm like it's not
really about just, sometimesyou just got to do things to do
things.
Sometimes you just got to do itto build the discipline.
And you know, and for me I'm avery disciplined person when I
started doing a lot of gratitudework, that for me, was really
(19:46):
just about doing the disciplinein that, because I could not.
I was in you know, I always sayI didn't really grow up in a
home where we were kind of seethe bright side of everything,
and so I didn't really have thatin my in my bones and so I tend
to would look at things andalways be a pessimist and so and
I didn't like that, I reallydidn't like that about myself.
And so I really went to workwhen I started doing my coaching
(20:08):
on how can I change my outlookon things, and so the gratitude
was one of the things I had toreally work on, but I made it
more of like a disciplinepractice for myself, in that I
would write it down on my to-dolist every day to purposely go
in and try to find things Icould be grateful for.
And so I'd write it down.
And, karen, I'll tell you, itwas so cheesy.
I would write things like I'mgrateful for my cups, I'm
(20:30):
grateful for my plates, I'mgrateful for forks.
Kieron (20:34):
But that's it.
Jennifer (20:35):
I'm grateful for a front door that locks you know
like, but the thing is as cheesyas and cliche as that sounded
it got me into the habit of.
Really it changed the way I wasthinking.
It wasn't the only thing thatchanged them, but it was a piece
of the puzzle that helped me tostop getting focused on things
I didn't like, things I didn'twant, and really start looking
(20:56):
at the things in my day that Icould find that brought blessing
into my life.
Right, and then that gets usback to and that's how it helps,
I think, for me with thepatience on going is that when
I'm getting boggled I can go hey, but this happened today and
this is why I do what I do.
Kieron (21:13):
And I think you know that's also about objectivity
and perspective.
I think those are really reallykey to when we got started with
this, we saw a very strongvirtuous circle of charities,
donors and fundraisers who's youknow very being is about doing
amazing things.
That's what those people get upand do every day, whether
they're donating, givinggenerously, running marathons,
(21:35):
baking cakes, and the charities.
Clearly, the people operatingthe charities are going to work
every day, making a realdifference.
So we saw that virtuous circleand thought there's a space in
there for a fundraising platformto be equally virtuous and do
this 100% free and fund thatthrough another model.
It was a model that existed.
Corporate sponsorship wasn'tanything new.
(21:55):
But talking about objectivityand perspective, if I ever need
a bit of that, all I need to dois visit our fundraising
platform and there's 55 storieson there and then you know you
read two of them and you go.
Okay, you know my life mightseem a bit tough today, but look
at what these people are doingand what they're achieving and I
think that perspective is justso valuable.
Yeah.
Jennifer (22:16):
Well and to your point , just to really emphasize and
hone in on what you're saying,there is, though, you're taking
the proactive step to say, golook that right, like and I
think that's where it comes intolike taking the step to do
something about and not sittingin that you know if you're in
that state of mind, right Likedoing something completely
yourself out of that state ofmind.
So so many, so many takeawaysin all of this I think that are
(22:38):
really really good.
So good stuff, good stuff, okay.
So I'd love to know because youare a runner and we talked
about this and everybody knows,follows me, knows that stuff
goes on in my house, has beengone for many, many years.
I would love to know the pair,some of the parallels, like how
that's helped you in with yourbusinesses and with you, know,
navigating all the complexitiesthat come with owning businesses
(22:58):
and bringing these businessesup and running.
Kieron (23:02):
A couple of really obvious ones.
I guess, talking about patients, you've, you've, everyone's
heard this, the, the quote it'sa marathon, not a sprint.
So there's the same thing there, for sure, and I'm definitely
not a sprinter.
I mean, my kids laugh at mewhen I run, run, run quickly or
try to run quickly.
I remember doing, you know, the, the children's sports day,
joining with the parents.
From there I think I came last,and you know I'm really keen on
(23:24):
running but I'm not a fastrunner.
So for me, I think, a couple ofthings that are really, really
important.
One is it takes me out ofeverything else.
Genuinely, I call it my movingmeditation.
I'm sure I'm not alone in that,but I think just that
physicality of it being such arhythmic thing is really really
nice and stopping your brain fora bit.
But then, ironically orparadoxically, a lot of the
(23:46):
problems that I solve in thebusiness are solved out on a run
, because it is giving your mindthat space to stop thinking and
and actually start thinking, ifthat makes any sense at all.
But by not consciously, notconsciously dwelling on
something I think.
Often other solutions come toyou because you you're not
fixated.
So I think that I think the theperseverance you know, done a
(24:09):
couple of marathons.
I'm certainly not an altarrunner and I've not done dozens
and dozens of them, but juststarting that and knowing that
there's no option other thanfinishing, at least in your own
mind, is a really good metaphorfor business as well.
This is, it's non-negotiable.
The gun's gone off and I'm notgoing to stop until I get to the
finish line.
You got to get to the finishline right, you can't sit down
(24:31):
and move the race Exactly, andand again, you know, just going
back, it doesn't really matterhow long it takes to get there,
you're going to get there.
So I think that's been really,really important.
Jennifer (24:42):
Yeah, that's good too, and I think too you know, I
don't know you probably feelthis way from from the runner
perspective that because youkind of said you know the
mindset of you got to finish, Ithink it's it is all mindset
right, because I've told thisstory several times about how
like we would run, you know,like multiple races on a week,
and we might do a half marathonon Saturday and turn around to
(25:02):
another one on Sunday, or myhusband's done like four
marathons consecutively over dayover, four days over, like a
holiday weekend, crazy.
Kieron (25:09):
I know, it's a hundred miles.
Jennifer (25:10):
There you go.
You just broke it up.
But there would be times likewe'd go run like a half and then
I'd get up the next day andhave to go run like a 5k and I'd
be like I can't do this, Like Ijust can't.
But I got to finish, I got toget to the end, right.
And then there'd be other days.
I'm like I got this, like I'vegot a marathon, I'm going to
have a marathon, I'm going to gorun the next one next day, and
I got it right, so it reallybecomes about the mindset, and I
(25:32):
always feel like you know howwe do one thing is sort of how
we do all things, and so I thinkthat I feel like you know, when
you do these athletic things onthe side, they really do teach
you these great life skills thatyou can really apply to all
areas of your life, whether itbe your business or personal.
You know and in your caseyou're talking about patience
you know learning, that you gotto get to the finish line, how
long it takes you there, and ifyou have to carry that same
(25:54):
mindset into what you're doingin your business, it's we're
going to take it there.
Whatever it takes to get itthere, we're going to do it.
Kieron (26:00):
And again circling back to what we started talking about
and that changing landscapesthat we're operating in.
You know I'm getting older, somy personal bests are behind me
in terms of time.
But you just said differentpersonal bests.
It's how many miles, orwhatever it might be, how many
days a week am I going to run?
There's always a new personalbest, so it's adapting to
changing circumstances, tothat's good, all right, another
(26:22):
question real quick.
Jennifer (26:23):
I'd love to know and this is my favorite question
I've been asking everybody it'sfun because I just always I get
kind of the same thing, justdifferent verbiage around it.
I'd love to know in your mindor in your words, what do you
feel like a success for you?
What does that look like?
Kieron (26:39):
Wow, I'm going to probably miss.
Quote Steve Jobs.
Jennifer (26:44):
It's all good We'll be it'll be close enough.
Kieron (26:48):
But I mean, he actually used the word wonderful in the
quote that I'm about to use aswell.
So that was quite nice and Ithink it went something.
Like you know, I don't want todie being the richest man in the
cemetery, I just want to kindof finish the day thinking we've
done something wonderful and Ithink that is just so important.
It sounds very grandiose, butgenuinely, I think when we
finish the day today, forexample, we've just rolled out
(27:08):
one of the services completelyfree of charge to charities that
feels like a great day for me,because there's something that
they can use that's going tocost them nothing and helps them
generate more revenue.
So we won't earn anything fromthat.
We will, certainly in terms ofyou know I guess kudos is
probably the wrong word but interms of our reputation, it's
great for us.
But I think much more than that, it's just about thinking well.
(27:31):
That might make a difference.
So I think that's the mostimportant thing.
Jennifer (27:34):
I love it and I feel like you know I've had several
recordings I've done today Ifeel like we all sort of kind of
say the same thing.
We just have a different way ofexpressing, but I think it
always ends up coming back to,you know, making impact and
being able to do what we loveand do it on our terms, so to
speak, right, completely Makingour day what we want it to be.
I love it because I just feellike that question it really
gets to the center of what isthis for you, because other
(27:57):
people are listening to this andthey're like why do these
people do what they do?
Really and that's what we tryto show on this show is like why
do people do the things thatthey do and what's moving them
to go forward?
So really good stuff, reallygood stuff.
Okay Well, this has been awesome.
You're doing cool things.
I love it.
I love that you're doing yourworkouts and all getting all the
good stuff in over there,because I think that is
(28:17):
important part to our well-being.
It keeps us all together, youknow, and makes all this other
stuff in life so much easier.
But I'd love to ask you acouple of fun questions, because
I know you're a drummer andyou've got all these other cool
things you've done, so thatbeing first Indy Rock Band so
I'd love to know where you guysplayed.
Like were you all in theselittle small gigs?
(28:37):
Did y'all get to travel?
Tell me a little bit about thatreal quick.
Kieron (28:40):
Tell you what my proudest moment actually, funny
enough, we were watching adocumentary about Blondie coming
to England and Concord, England, which was on the BBC the last
couple of weeks and it wasseeing a couple of the venues
come up on that documentary thateveryone's played and I'm
really proud to say we played atthe marquee in London and we
played at Dingwalls in London.
So they're really great venues,Very cool.
(29:01):
Funnily enough, the band I wasin was a bit of a Blondie sound
alike though the singer andguitarist would kill me for
saying that because they hatedany references to it but it kind
of was.
You know we had a girl singer,guitar based drums and very much
that kind of scene early 90s,late 80s, so a little after
Blondie's, probably peak, butgreat fun, really great fun.
(29:24):
That's fun.
Jennifer (29:25):
Well, and Blondie was obviously, you know, did a great
job, so it's not necessarily abad thing right?
It would be bad if she was likeLast year, 2023, still playing.
I know I know Some of these oldsingers are still going.
It's fine, she does, she stillgoes.
I mean, it's fun.
Kieron (29:43):
And there was a couple of spots on the documentary from
Glastonbury.
I think in Crockett Crackie.
She could still belt them outas well.
What a voice, Amazing.
That's so great.
Jennifer (29:51):
So great, awesome, all right.
So I'd love to know.
This is Blondie.
This is my one question I haveto ask you because I know you're
a runner and I know you told methat you, you know you have a
specific diet that you follow,but I'd let to know, like the
one guilty pleasure, like what'sthe one thing that's like I
really like this and I shouldn'teat it.
Kieron (30:08):
I've got a terrible sweet tooth, so if I can find
vegan versions of anything sweet, it's that there's a restaurant
that whenever I was in New Yorkcalled Peace Food that does
some amazing vegan desserts andof course I shouldn't probably
say this, probably offend allthe viewers and is but American
portions.
So really nice big place.
Jennifer (30:31):
There's a place here they have two locations, it's
called Spiral Diner that my kidslove and it's basically like
the vegan vegetarian food.
So when we do Thanksgiving wehave to kind of do potluck,
because I got one kid vegetarian, one's, one's vegan, the other
one's not.
We're not.
So we do sort of a potluck butthey always come over and
they'll have, like they broughttheir.
They had a pumpkin pie from theSpiral Diner and they had.
(30:54):
But then the this is mydaughter's husband.
He'll make some food too.
But they love this Spiral Diner.
Like there.
It's like a, it's like an oldschool diner, like the diner
diner, you see, but it's gotlike desserts in the diner thing
and they make food and stuff.
And my kids, my son, every it'snot close to her house and
every time his birthday rollsaround he's like I want to go to
the Spiral Diner, that's theone that eats meat.
(31:14):
But he wants to go to theSpiral Diner and I'm like it's
not even by our house.
Kieron (31:18):
You know, so you probably would like it.
Yep, Sounds good.
No, I mean the peace food.
I think they do a crumble overthere.
It's like a apple crumble or araspberry crumble.
It's just fantastic,particularly after a marathon.
Jennifer (31:30):
Yeah, Highly recommend it.
Yeah, that's good.
I like pie.
I'm a.
I'm a big, I'm a big cherry pie.
I would.
That's my favorite cherry piewith ice cream.
I like it.
Kieron (31:37):
I don't eat it very often Sounds good.
Jennifer (31:40):
All right, I'd love to know.
Maybe a book you have a bookthat had kind of a maybe a
profound effect on you,something you remember reading
that was like that's the one.
Kieron (31:50):
Everything by Murakami, essentially, haruki Murakami, a
big, big fan.
Dance, dance, dance, dance, Ithink, was the first one that I
read.
I don't know, I just love hiswriting.
There's so many times that I'lljust go back to the beginning
of a paragraph and reread asentence.
I think that it's justexquisitely written.
So now I really, really loveMurakami.
Jennifer (32:09):
Very cool, Okay.
One last question I want to askyou, because I know you have
your routine.
I would love to know are you amorning workout or afternoon
workout?
When do you do your?
Kieron (32:17):
workouts.
That's changed again.
Funny how life changes.
There was a time when I couldnever run in the morning.
I absolutely hated it.
It was just the worst thing forme.
And now, bizarrely, I tend torun before breakfast and yoga in
the evenings, which, again, forany Ash Tanga, they will howl
if they hear that, because it'syou're supposed to do it the
other way around.
Ash Tanga in the morning.
Anything else like that that'sgood.
Jennifer (32:38):
And you know what I used to be like that too.
I was not a morning person, soeverything I'd have to do it
would be reverse.
And now, like I have to get mywork done, I don't do it
necessarily before breakfast,because we do walk dogs and all
that, and then I do get myworkout in.
But, interestingly, I read thisbook it's called the Power of
Wind, by the Sleep Doctor, andhe talks about how we operate
(33:01):
off circadian rhythm and it'sfunny because I'm a lion and so
my circadian rhythm.
It says, basically I shouldwork out like five o'clock in
the afternoon, because that'swhen I have kind of my, my
sinking spell.
But here's the thing when I'mdressed, I'm dressed.
I'm not going to get up, getdressed and then go work out and
have to get dressed again andI'm like, no, that's five
o'clock in the afternoon.
(33:21):
Like I got networking, I gotthings we not doing.
All that it's just doing in themorning.
So I like my morning, I get itdone, I knock it out and it's
over.
Kieron (33:31):
I think one of the handy hints for morning runs that I
read a while ago in a runnersmagazine was get everything laid
out by the side of the bed sothere's no excuse you can't do
that.
Oh, I've got to go and findthis and I've got to go and find
that.
I'll just get back into bed.
So if you train us and you'reshort, so they're by the bed,
you step into them and, like youknow, you just go, that's good.
Jennifer (33:49):
That's good Bad sense that you have that problem
getting out the door.
You've been doing it for a longtime now.
You it's like I was tellingsomebody I maybe it was on the
previous side told him I saidyou know, like I don't know
about you, but it's got to be.
For me, exercise is really notnegotiable, so I don't have to.
I don't have that.
I really have to tell myselfnot to do it, like I have to
tell myself sometimes, just takea day off, I'm tired, I need to
rest, like I'm physically tired.
(34:10):
But I will tell you I got a newwatch, a new garment and this
one's pretty nice because it hasa.
It's a coach, I like it.
The darn thing will tell me,like every time I go run and I
don't and I told you the daywhen we were off I don't really
run that long anymore, so Imight go out and do like four or
five miles it will tell meit'll come back and it'll be
like you need 30 hours ofrecovery.
So I'll be like okay, I guessI'd better tell myself we're
(34:30):
going to take a day off tomorrowand we have rest.
We need to rest.
Kieron (34:34):
The problem is I don't.
I don't agree with Garmin'srecovery times.
I think they're reallyoverstated.
They're really lovely excuse totake.
Jennifer (34:42):
I'm not going to follow you.
That's my point, but I do lookat it sometimes.
Kieron (34:47):
I have finished yoga practice once and it said right
K 72 hours until you.
I was, and I think it mighthave even been a restorative
practice.
Jennifer (34:55):
so I was kind of yeah, the only time I've seen it do,
that is when I've done A longerrun.
It hasn't done it when I'vedone like two or three miles or
if I do my regular work.
It only does that every time Igo, but for enough.
It'll come back and it'll belike you need to rest.
But like you I don't really payattention.
I'm making kind of a joke aboutbecause I think it's funny,
because it'll tell me I'll comeup, you need 72 hours of
(35:17):
recovery.
I'm like that's five days.
I'm not resting that long.
I'm going to be a vegetable infive days, you know, but I think
it's funny.
So my point to that is thatevery now and then I have to
physically tell myself you'retired today, jennifer, just take
a breather.
You know what I mean likebreathe.
Kieron (35:32):
I had somebody stop in front of me on the King's Road
in Chelsea when I was running tothe office the other week and
they just pulled up sharp infront of my end up tearing a
muscle in my calf, stopping toavoid running into them.
So now my garment is saying Iam detraining because I've not
been able to run for it for acouple of weeks, killing me.
My watch is really beating meup about.
It says you detraining, youdetraining.
(35:52):
I'm not, I'm injured, leave mealone.
Jennifer (35:55):
I don't mind us tell me to move, it'll say get up and
move.
I'm like we stop being bossy.
Kieron (36:01):
Exactly, I love it.
Jennifer (36:02):
I love it.
Well, this has been fun, karen.
If our audience wants to get intouch with you, maybe they want
to learn a bit a little bitmore about your payment
processing and what you've gotgoing on running.
I don't know.
Maybe they want to figuresomething out.
Where would we like to sendthem?
Kieron (36:14):
Simplest place is wonderful dot code at UK, so
very easy domain name toremember, and the charity
fundraising platform is atwonderful dot org.
You can tell I've been in theweb business and domain name
registration for a long time.
Jennifer (36:25):
It's all good, it's all whatever works.
Hey, right easy to remembereasy to get to right.
It works so great.
We'll make sure when we getthis done and we get all the
bells and whistles on there,we'll get the websites in there
too, so people know where tofind you and stuff.
So it's been fun.
Thank you for sharing with usgreat.
Tell us a little bit about yourjourney and, yeah, you're doing
awesome stuff.
Kieron (36:46):
My pleasure.
Thanks again, really reallygreat for the opportunity.
Lovely to meet.
Jennifer (36:50):
We do want to say to our audience, of course if you
enjoy the show, please be sureyou give us a rating over at
apple.
Check us out on YouTube.
You can hit that subscribebutton.
And, as I always say, in orderto live, extraordinary must
start, and every start beginswith a decision.
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.