February 8, 2024 • 42 mins
Join us on a captivating journey with Jeff Seckendorf, a master athlete and innovator in scuba diving education, as we discuss his unique approach to transforming the way we think about underwater exploration. Dive into a rigorous training philosophy that mirrors Jeff's discipline as a master cyclist as he elucidates the power of process over certification, shedding light on how dedication to the craft can surpass the allure of mere outcomes. This episode promises to reveal the methodology behind Jeff's company, Unified Team Diving, and his anticipation for setting a new world record, showcasing the synergy between athletic prowess and impactful community engagement.
We dive into the transformative nature of storytelling in teaching and how lessons from sports discipline can permeate every facet of life, offering a blueprint for personal and professional enhancement. As we wrap up, we take a moment to reflect on finding joy in the balance between striving for results and appreciating the journey. Discover how celebrating even minor victories can fuel our drive for purpose and how engaging with our communities through shared experiences can lead to extraordinary accomplishments.
We'll leave you inspired by Jeff's upcoming projects and the ripple effect of positivity that extends from individual achievements to global initiatives. So, whether you're a scuba enthusiast or simply seeking inspiration for an extraordinary life, this episode is your gateway to a world of profound insights and stories of purpose.
Takeaways
- Coaching in scuba diving should focus on training and becoming better rather than just getting certified.
- Enjoying the process is essential to achieving success and finding purpose in various areas of life.
- Skills and values learned through sports and storytelling can provide a comprehensive framework for enhancing one's life.
- Finding purpose in helping others can bring satisfaction and a sense of success.
- The Institute of Purpose provides a platform for people to share their stories of finding purpose in their lives.
- Training preferences vary among individuals, with some finding meditation and focus in silence, while others enjoy music for motivation.
- Books have the power to profoundly impact our lives and provide valuable insights and lessons.
These are our friends. These are your friends. AND they are living the extraordinary.
For a transcript of this episode, go to www.behindthedreamers.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:24):
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Dreamers.
I'm your host, jennifer Loading, and we are talking to the
achievers, the creators, themagic makers and the dreamers.
These are our friends, theseare your friends and they are
living the extraordinary Well.
My guest today, I want to say,is a lifelong adventure.
He's done so many neat things.
He's been a filmmaker andeducator.
He's worn many hats whiteinstructor, scoop instructor
(00:45):
trainer, mentor to numerousemerging film directors and
instructor for countless filmworkshops.
He's an accomplished cyclistand has a record.
He's a record holder and plansto attempt another world record
here in 2025 as a master athlete.
So I'm super excited to chatwith him.
I think you guys are going tobe in for an awesome treat today
.
But before I bring him on, I doneed to do a quick shout out to
(01:08):
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(01:49):
So, with that said, we got toget our guests on Super excited
about this, so I just lost mypaper, jeff.
All right.
So Jeff, second door, the doerof many things, owns and
operates UTD scuba diving,specializing in comprehensive
training and certification.
With the lifetime of coaching,mentoring and teaching adults,
he brings a unique coachingparadigm to scuba diving.
For Jeff, it's not just aboutgetting certified, it's about
(02:10):
becoming better, and so we'reexcited to get him on here.
I know he's got a big thingcoming up.
He's doing some cool things inthe community and so, jeff,
welcome to behind the dreamers.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Jeff (02:20):
Yeah, great Jennifer, so happy to be here.
Jennifer (02:23):
So where do we start?
Oh my gosh, you got so manythings going on.
You've got like you're acyclist.
You've done all these coolthings.
You've got this scuba divingcertification that you're doing,
so tell us what you're workingon right now.
I tell us a little bit aboutthe scuba diving and what you're
working on at this presentmoment.
Jeff (02:37):
So the scuba diving thing is a company I own.
I've had it since 2008.
It's unified team diving and weare a global scuba
certification and trainingagency.
So that's a core business forme and that's just what I do and
you know my particular role.
I run it and I run around theworld training instructors and
instructor trainers.
(02:57):
So that's it's a really superfun, crazy fun really fun, fun
game.
You know I mean.
This is the epitome of do whatyou love and the money will
follow.
It's like this is super fun.
Jennifer (03:09):
Yeah, and you've traveled quite extensively with
the scuba diving.
Did I read that correctly?
Yeah, yeah, pretty mucheverywhere, yeah, and we just
you're gonna laugh at me Like Ihave very little knowledge of
scuba diving.
I've had friends that have doneit.
I did this like one like scubadiving course in a swimming pool
, like we were like trainingjust to use, like the scuba
diving equipment.
(03:29):
You just got to start somewhereright.
So I'm sure you get people likeme who come in and like they're
like you know, brand newlearning this thing, and then
you're actually certifying thesepeople now so they can act.
Are they training or actuallyjust being certified in scuba
diving?
Jeff (03:42):
Well, it's interesting you presented that way, because
training and certification aredifferent, and it's the thing
that has really set us apartfrom the other 20 or 30 or 40
training agencies that you knowwe're much more focused on
training than just cranking outa certification, and so that
kind of takes the piece of scubaand cycling and puts it all
(04:05):
together.
Ad (04:06):
Yeah.
Jeff (04:07):
So it's kind of an interesting.
I'll see if I can piece this upfor you quickly and then we can
go into a little more more inthe weeds.
Jennifer (04:13):
You're fine, you're, you're, absolutely fine.
Jeff (04:15):
So the.
So I'm a master's athlete,right, I race a bike at a pretty
high level for an almost 70year old guy.
So it's in my life as anathlete.
I have been coached for a verylong time.
The model for many of us asendurance athletes and coaching
(04:35):
is that I have a coach.
I'm in San Diego, he lives inBoulder, but we have this online
tool and every week he sets upa calendar for me of workouts on
the bike and the gym and the,the, the, the whole thing, and I
just do them.
And I know that if I do thisprocess consistently with
(04:58):
structure, then the outcome, myoutcome, becomes a little bit
inevitable.
Right, this is the thing aboutprocess oriented training, right
, that if you do the process,the outcome generally is
inevitable.
So in scuba, in the classicscuba thing is take a class and
get a certification card, andthat card has always been the
(05:21):
holy grail for people, and wejust decided to try to turn that
absolutely on its head.
And so now you know we're verywell.
Since day one, we're veryfocused on the idea that you pay
for training but you earncertification.
So the students who come intounified team diving come in with
an expectation that they'regoing to get training and if
(05:42):
they reach a particular barthey're going to get
certification.
If not, we create a path tocompletion for them that gets
them to that goal.
But we're very process oriented.
It's so much about the process.
So what we did was we tookthose two things and my training
director in unified team divingis a triathlete, so you know we
(06:03):
kind of run parallel lives.
He's about a lot younger than Iam but, but doing the same kind
of thing, he's still a master'sathlete.
We took the coaching model thatwe use in endurance athletics
and we applied it to scubadiving and no one's ever done
this before and it's so cool.
So the students who come in tothe coaching program at unified
(06:26):
team diving come in and we callthem clients, even though
they're students, and they havea coach who is an instructor,
but we call a coach, so there'ssome semantics in here to make
it a little more friendly.
So the client has a coach andthe coach has this calendar app,
which is the exact samecalendar I use on my bike with
(06:46):
my coach, and the coach sets upa week of workouts in scuba for
the client, for the student, andthis becomes our training
process for as long as it takes,and we have a thousand memes
about this, but one of them isthat we're slowing the training
down from two weekends or fourdays to maybe six months or a
(07:12):
year.
We've had people on thisprogram for two, three years,
and the magic thing aboutcoaching and I think this is
true in coaching everywherebusiness, sports, now Scuba is
that coaching makes you better.
Right, I could do an onlinetraining program on the bike and
(07:35):
I would probably get faster,but I wouldn't get better.
My cycling coach makes mebetter, and this is the beauty
of what we do in Scuba is thatwe took this coaching program
and we said we're not gonna justmake you certified, we're gonna
make you better, and then we'regonna show you how to apply
that betterness to the rest ofyour life.
(07:56):
Oh, I get it, so it's just notScuba, yeah, right.
Jennifer (08:01):
Yeah that's good, and I'm listening to you and I think
that you know, I think you'reright, I think that's like that
in every way and I had somewords.
I wanted to kind of wrap aroundthat because I think it's when
you're focusing on the person'scoming in and they're learning
this.
It's sort of like when I wentthrough my I was in Mary Kay and
leadership for 22 years I had alot of hands-on experience.
(08:22):
You don't get a manual on howto build teams, right.
You learn how to build teamsthrough building teams, right.
But when I went through, when Iwas kind of merging out of that
and going into my own practice,I went and got a life coaching
certification and it was sort ofthe same thing Like when I went
into it.
I went into it to get thecoaching experience.
It wasn't to be certified inthe coaching, it was to go
through and learn how to be abetter leader.
And we actually had to gothrough.
(08:44):
You know, when I started goingthrough that, I thought you know
what I'm gonna do this coachingprogram, but I don't even care
about the certification.
That's not why I did it.
It wasn't to go get the.
You can go online and do acoaching certification.
You're right, you can just goget one Doesn't make you a
better coach or a better leader,right?
Anybody can say you know I'mthese things without having had
the experience.
But I went into it and I wentin because I wanted to be a
(09:04):
better leader, and so I took thecourse without really having
any intention of using it foranything other than to be more
effective, communicating withthe team that I was working with
, and so I think the approach isdifferent.
When you come in, you know,with that standpoint of how am I
working to be better?
Right, then you, those are kindof like the icings on the cake,
right, like you get those inthe after.
Yes, you can go for thecertification, but it's really
(09:27):
about being a better, whateverit is, in your end, knowing your
skill, knowing your craft,knowing how to do it well and
being effective, so that, hey,you can also show it and apply
it right.
And so you see a lot of reallygood things there, and I think
the athleticism is so good inthis.
Jeff (09:41):
Was that a good experience for you?
Was that a process that led toan outcome without worrying
about a certification right.
Jennifer (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, well, in many ways, yes, and I think I've
approached everything from thatangle.
I feel like I do that witheverything I do.
I, yeah, I set goals for things, but I really, even when I work
with my clients, I'm reallyabout I'm not about showing my
client here's what I need you todo.
I'm about how do I make theclient make transformation right
, like, how do I get them tomake the transformation that
they need so it sticks and theycan use it in all areas of their
(10:11):
lives?
It doesn't just apply in whatthey're doing, because all these
principles that we learn likeyou kind of just said that,
right, you took your cycling andyou took the things that you
learned from that and you movedit into this other practice that
you do, right, because theprinciples are kind of this are
universal, right, we just havethem a little bit differently
within the work, but we learnthese skillsets and these things
(10:31):
, whatever that is, whether it's, you know, discipline or all of
these things that we can applythem in these other areas.
So for me, yeah, it's it's whenyou were saying all this.
I can absolutely resonate withall of it, because nothing I've
ever done has been about hey,how do we get a certification?
It's been.
How do we make somethingeffectively where somebody
becomes better at what they'redoing with it?
(10:51):
You know, hopefully it's betterbeing a better human being,
jeff.
Jeff (10:54):
That's what my goal is.
That's my goal.
Well, you know, you saidsomething really interesting to
me in that last moment, which isabout learning it by yourself,
learning it on your own.
And you know education.
You know the classic definitionis creating a change in
behavior in your students.
But if you don't add retentionto that change, then what's?
(11:17):
There's no point, right, if youchange behavior and they can do
that in your class and thenthey forget it the next day, it
doesn't matter.
So what we're doing in theeducation program and in UDD and
with the coaching program isworking on behavior change with
retention, and that is the pieceof this that is so interesting.
(11:41):
So in the coaching program inScuba, none of the coaches live
in the same town as theirclients for the most part,
because the coaches areeverywhere.
We're all over the world, thestudents are all over the world
and we just put them togetherusing Zoom and phone and this
calendar app and stuff.
One of the things that alwayssounds like I'm selling snake
(12:04):
oil when I'm talking to peopleabout signing up and trying the
Scuba coaching program is thatit's an it's Scuba, it's diving,
it's water, it's like normallyyou have an instructor and these
instructors with you and you gofor a dive and they critique
you.
And in the coaching program,what we do is we send people
(12:24):
into a pool with a buddy and acamera and we give them a skill
set to work on and then theycome back with the video and
upload the video for their coach.
Now this is where the snake oilthing comes in.
It sounds like hooey right,like we're just trying to
convince you to take a somethingweird online Scuba course,
(12:46):
which seems impossible.
What we found over the years isthat so we look at a skill
you're trying to do like a backkick right, kicking backward
which is a really valuable scubaskill and sometimes it's hard
for people to get.
So they watch a video, we talkabout it, go in the pool, try it
(13:08):
and then come back with a videoand we critique that video.
Normally we would just fix themon the spot.
I'd move their feet, do likethis or this.
But in this situation it's likeokay, I need you to think about
this, right, I need you tothink this in your head when
you're moving your feet likethis.
Go try it again.
So now we're forcing them toconnect their own process to the
(13:35):
physical stuff, make aneuro-mechanical change and come
back with another video.
Basically, what's happening isthey're learning it themselves,
and that's where the retentionpart it's a game changer,
because we know that retentionfrom learning it yourself is so
much deeper than retention fromhaving somebody move your body.
(13:57):
So it's a hard sell becausenobody believes it until they're
in, and then all of a suddenit's like holy crap, this really
works.
Jennifer (14:08):
You know what this makes me think of.
When you say this, I feel likeit makes me think the difference
between a consultant and acoach, if you were to
differentiate the two.
And this is something that Ihave to talk to people when they
come to me, because people willcome to me and they say and I'm
sure you get this a lot of themwant you to tell them exactly
what to do what to do, RightLike that's what you're saying
in the water move their legsaround, right, when it's their
(14:29):
idea.
And this is where I talk to themabout the coach and the
consultant.
I say, if I told you everythingto do, you're not going to buy
into it, right, like you're notgoing to buy into what I'm
telling you because it's myideas, and you're going to go
home and be like, yeah, jennifertold me to do that, but if it's
your idea, you're going to getbehind it.
So all I do is facilitate andhelp you figure out what you
need to do.
I'm there to give you somesuggestions and help facilitate
it.
But you are so right when yousaid that to me.
(14:51):
That's exactly what I'mpicturing, kind of the
difference between somebodycoming in and telling you
exactly what to do and somebodyfacilitating a process for you
to begin to realize it's youridea, your thought, your concept
, you noticed it, right, andthen you retain it.
Jeff (15:06):
Yeah, and the first time this happens, the light bulb
that goes off it says oh my God,you know, with guidance I can
learn these skills better.
And because our whole goal isto slow the process down, I
don't care how long it takes, Idon't care if it takes you eight
tries to get this skill right,it doesn't matter.
Just what we're doing is we'regiving ourselves the permission
(15:31):
to take whatever time it needs,and it's all because we're
getting rid of this pressure ofoutcome.
Yeah Right, the outcome is justinevitable, but it happens.
When it happens, you've got toretain.
Yeah, I know I get what you'resaying totally.
Jennifer (15:49):
And that's kind of that's.
I get it because that's sort ofkind of the way that you know,
when I do my work.
In fact, I was just telling Iwas interviewing some guys
before this.
I was telling them that I hadcreated a program, a coaching
program, and I said one of thethings about it that I was
trying to do is make it more ina storytelling form, because
people, when they can relatethings to messaging you know,
(16:11):
when they can see you can tellsomebody like, for instance, you
can tell somebody like haveintegrity, well, what does that
look like To you?
It may be something else to me,somebody else, right?
But if you can show, this iswhat I'm trying to show you.
This is an action verb of whatintegrity looks like.
Here's a story that shows it.
They're, you know, a child.
They're going to retain it.
They're going to have a betterretaining of this than if you
(16:31):
just told them this and they gotto write that down, you know,
and so I like it.
I like what you're doing and Ican see how that.
You know the difference in whatyou, the model that you're
doing, versus hey, let's get thecertification.
You know, let's get them versedin what they're doing.
Get them to be a better scubadive, get them to retain the
skills.
Yeah, it's that.
Jeff (16:48):
Yeah, it's called playable direction In filmmaking.
It's called playable direction,right.
If you tell an actor to youknow, play, you know you did,
okay, but be sexier, right?
Well then what the actor saysis oh my God, he doesn't think
I'm sexy, so let me try to besexy the way I think he thinks.
I think he thinks I should be.
But you know, if you tell anactor to do something like you
(17:11):
know, play this like the firsttime you're in the backseat of a
car with your boyfriend in highschool.
Jennifer (17:15):
Right.
Jeff (17:16):
It's like boom, now I've got a connection, I got a
picture.
I got a picture an emotion, someaction, and I can create
something from inside myself.
That's kind of what we're doing, and I don't think it's unique
to our coaching program, becauseI also coach athletes and I'm a
coached athlete, bubba.
I think playable directionbecomes like this really
critical piece of it that says agood coach will give you
(17:38):
something that's playable.
Yeah, and that's what you'retalking about.
You're saying let's give ourclients a way to learn that they
can actually do the learning,not just the repetition.
And it's in the doing of thelearning where you know now
we're starting to repeatourselves, but that's where
they're returning.
Jennifer (17:58):
Oh, I love it.
This is so good.
I'm glad I even talked to youtoday, because I never know
where these shows are going togo.
But I love it because you'rebasically saying what I'm
talking about in differentlanguages.
And it's great because youbrought in the filmmaking, the
biking, the scoop, it's all cometogether.
We're talking about completelydifferent things, but they
really all are connected in someway.
And it's the method and this iswhat I tell people all the time
(18:19):
when they're out looking forcoaches and stuff, because
there's so many people that goout in all these fields and they
go sign up for a course andthey're like, hey, today I'm a
life coach and I'm like, can youtell me?
But have you had any life?
I'm like, have you had, firstof all, any life experience?
And then I'm thinking, how areyou getting your people to
retain in them when you're justtelling them to go home and like
, do this thing repetitively andthey have never even been to
the gym First of all, never evenbeen to the gym on any given
(18:41):
day.
And they're going to go now,but seven days for two hours.
I used to be a Robus instructor.
I know how that works.
It doesn't.
Jeff (18:47):
Really they come in on January and the fall and the arm
warmers and the leg warmers andthe whole thing.
Oh, I love that.
Jennifer (18:53):
But then come in and January they pack out the gym
and guess what.
Six weeks they're gone.
Jeff (18:58):
I know it matters.
So I'm going to tell you.
Jennifer (19:01):
We bring different things.
Like, I feel like I have thesedifferent areas of my life that
I can bring in and I'm like Ihave stories for them.
I love it.
So your cyclist we talked aboutthat.
You've got a big thing comingup that you're working on in
2025.
Am I correct?
Tell us a little bit aboutwhat's going on with this.
Jeff (19:15):
Yeah, you know, I ride and race on the track, on the
Velodrome, and I love the trackRight, it's probably, to me it's
the purest form of cycling.
Right, because you're on aconfined space.
It's just a little oval.
It's 250 or 330 meters To it,so it's very small.
It's very confined.
You can go very fast.
(19:36):
The bike has one gear, nobrakes.
Wow, you can ride against theclock or you can ride against
other people.
So I'll go out and I'll do a twoor three hour workout on the
track and it's not a meditation,but it's very meditative to me.
So it gets me in my own head asa cyclist and track racing is
(19:57):
traditionally short events.
Often, you know, at themaster's level, these, you know,
like these pursuits and timetrials, are two and a half
minutes, maybe three minutes,and I was looking for something
longer which sort of suits mybody.
And you know I got learningabout the hour record.
And the hour record is such asimple thing, right, it's how
(20:20):
far can you make your bike go inan hour.
And it's been going on sincethe 1800s.
It's this iconic thing.
It goes through waves.
Right, right now it's veryfashionable to try an hour
record Five years ago likenobody was doing, and the hour
record is crazy.
It's up to 56 kilometers.
Wow, I mean, that's like way upin the 30 mile, 30 plus mile an
(20:43):
hour range.
So in my age group it's about44 kilometers, about 27 miles.
So I'm training to see if I canactually get my bike to go 27
miles in an hour and it's a fiveyear process for me.
All of my work on the bike isgeared toward that, toward that
goal, and we'll see if it'sfeasible.
(21:05):
These people keep coming alongand raising it, you know.
That's how it is right.
Ad (21:10):
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Jeff (22:15):
And that's what we're doing today.
We're doing a leadership gametoday, ready to shine brighter
than other, than life Exciting.
I'm 68.
I'll be racing at age 70 in2025.
You know, we race on our thewhole year.
You're born Right, that's yourracing age.
So anytime after 2025, I canattack this thing at age 70.
And we'll see.
Jennifer (22:36):
It's exciting.
Jeff (22:37):
It's about the process.
Yeah, definitely, I would neverdo it, but the outcome becomes
less important.
I want the outcome, you know, Iwant to be successful at this,
but the process is the thingthat makes me feel like what I'm
doing on the bike applies to mylife.
You know, if I go and do asuper hard workout that I think
(22:58):
is almost too hard to completeand I finish it, then I come
back and I solve some.
You know, a piece of paperproblem on my desk, whatever it
is, it's like, well, you know, Ijust crushed the idea.
I crushed, you know, a thresholdworkout on my bike, sitting
here and figuring out thislittle paper website thing,
(23:18):
email, it's like nothing, right,yeah, so applying the process
of something really, really hardwhich is what this bike thing
is to being, you know, a betterhusband, a better grandparent,
better cook, better, you knowhandyman, whatever it happens to
(23:42):
be, you do and you like, right,yeah, I just try to take all
that stuff on the bike betterbusiness owner, for sure and
apply it to all these otherthings.
And that trickles down to me asa coach, saying my goal for my
clients is, yes, to make youbetter on the bike or, yes, to
make you better in scuba, but,most importantly, to give you
(24:03):
the tools to take thatbetterness and stick it on
something that matters to you,maybe more than the bike, right?
Yeah, like being a parent orbeing a grandparent, or being a
spouse, or something like that.
That's good.
So that's kind of why all thatconnects for me and it's why I
(24:23):
love the process so much.
Jennifer (24:25):
Yeah, it's really neat that you say all that too and I
always say, you know, like Iwas, I feel like how we do one
thing is sort of kind of how wedo all things.
Jeff (24:34):
And so I would think, huh.
It's a good way to look at it.
Jennifer (24:37):
Yeah.
So I kind of feel like you know, when, you know, like when I
kind of I always feel like whenpeople seek out and I'll talk
about like coaches, specific youknow they'll seek them out for
certain reasons, like that wehave a crisis in their life or
they want to grow their businessor something, and really, at
the core, we have to go back tomaking them a better, a better.
I was, I hate to say, likehuman because I've had people go
(24:59):
what if I'm already a betterhuman?
Like, trust me, none of us arebetter humans.
We're working on that every day.
Jeff (25:03):
That's the process.
Jennifer (25:04):
Right, you can't say that to people, but I know deep
down if we're trying to work ona business, there's probably
some leadership things we got.
There's things we got to workon right.
And so I love what you'resaying about this whole exercise
, because that is really kind ofsort of how, like when I went
even in this, I didn't realizethat that was really my entryway
into how I got to where I eventoday.
I went in initially because Ijust wanted to exercise and then
(25:27):
it became about how does theexercise transfer to my life?
How does it make me a bettermom, coworker, entrepreneur how
does it transfer into that?
And so I've been working out.
I put a post up the other daythat I, you know I've been
actively doing some kind ofworking out for like 20
something years.
I started in my late 20s.
I'm in my fifties now and I wentfrom teaching aerobics.
(25:48):
I've done marathons, I've donedifferent things.
There's not a day, really, thatgoes by unless I make a
conscious decision and I saytoday I'm going to rest, I'm not
going to exercise.
That doesn't happen very often.
I exercise pretty much everyday.
If I almost walk my dogs everyday, if I'm not, I'm running,
I'm at the gym because for meit's just part of what I do
every day and, like you said,you know the problem that you're
(26:10):
solving.
I feel like it does.
It allows me the ability to getthrough all the other things
that I need to do, whatever thatis in that particular day.
And so I know evenpsychological guys say, if I
don't work out like, you don'tprobably want to be around me
because I could kind of be crazy.
Jeff (26:23):
Yeah, yeah, I knew it.
You know it's funny.
I know I've known writers whohave said the best part of
writing is having written.
This is a really interestingthing to me and I talk about
this a lot, you know, withclients, because what that means
is they hate the process, theywant the outcome.
Right, yeah, finishing writingtakes one second right, you just
(26:46):
push, send Right the five yearsit took to write the book, the
screenplay, the thing, whateveryou're doing, if you hate that
process but you want the outcomeso badly, you just threw five
years of life into, like thishell bucket.
Jennifer (26:58):
That one thing.
Jeff (27:00):
Yeah, for the point of this, one little thing, and who
knows if it'll get accepted,published, blah, blah, blah.
The whole point of this isyou've got to just take the
process and embrace it, nomatter what.
It is no-transcript, even ifthe outcome is not successful.
Right, like on this hour thing.
If I get to a point in 2025 andwe look at the record and we
(27:21):
look at my physiology and mytime, my budget, my training and
all this and we say, look,you're two kilometers away from
this thing, don't waste the next20 grand to go do it, I'm gonna
say, okay, it's like, okay,let's change direction, so let's
not waste the money.
I did a great job.
I enjoyed the five years.
It was really good.
I learned a ton.
Let's go a slightly differentdirection where I can be
(27:43):
successful with an outcome, butwe'll continue in the process,
right?
So if I can't do it at 70, I'lldo it at 75.
I can't do it at 75, we'll doit at 80.
It doesn't matter to me.
And actually, finally, at onepoint I was talking to a sports
psychologist about this it'slike what is the situation if
(28:06):
you get too into process, right?
This was a really interestingconversation because I had
drifted down this road whereoutcome didn't matter, process
was everything, and I found whatwas happening to me was I
wasn't working hard enough inthe workouts because the outcome
didn't matter.
It's like, well, I'm supposedto do a three hour ride today,
but if I do two, so what itwon't matter.
(28:29):
I take it a little longer toget to my goal.
What I learned in the workingwith that amazing person was
that outcome can drive yourenergy into the process and make
the process that much better.
It changed my whole perspectiveon outcome and it got me to a
point where I made the processharder and better.
(28:52):
It was a really interestingcircle and it was like in front
of me but, I was so holier thannow about oh no outcome doesn't
matter, winning doesn't matter.
Nothing matters.
What matters is that you do agreat job as your training, and
that's just all bullshit.
You need to have a reason to doit.
And then I think, you can goback and say, okay, I love the
(29:15):
process.
Jennifer (29:16):
No, I agree with you and it's interesting that you
even brought that up about thebook.
I just interviewed a hip hop rapartist that just released like
a graphic novel book and he gotit picked up by Dark Horse,
which I guess is kind of a bigin the comic deal, and he was
talking about that.
It was a five year process to dothis and he's talked
specifically about because Iasked him what did you love
(29:37):
about all this, like what weresome of the challenges?
And they were talking abouttaking on this project and how
long it took and really enjoyingthe process and now kind of
seeing the fruits of their labornow happening.
But had they not enjoyed thatprocess because they had
released the book and then theybasically relaunched it again.
So they went through a wholeanother process of that.
So I think there's so manygreat takeaways in this and I'm
(30:00):
with you on all of that.
I think that we you know Ialways compare it to like having
a baby or running a marathon Isay you work so hard to get
those two things and if you'rejust waiting for that day and
not trying to enjoy it, you'regonna be absolutely miserable
when you get done.
You're gonna come out of thatmarathon, cause I know I've done
it.
You're gonna come out andyou're gonna be like why in the
hell did I do that?
Cause that sucked right.
It's about trying to find thevictory and the win in that.
(30:21):
And I do agree with you, too,on having the goals too.
You don't want to be so whereyou're just well, I don't care
if I reach a goal, because I'mjust enjoying all this, you know
, cause then you just kind ofdon't get there right.
You want to be able to figureout where the goal is and enjoy
the process with it.
But I'm with you on all of that.
I think it's important, I thinkwe get sometimes so hell bent on
having the goal that we missall the silver lining.
(30:44):
Really, we miss everythingaround us, and I think it was
Jordan Peterson that talkedabout that.
Where you like, it's so laserfocused on the goal that you
don't see even the opportunitiesthat come around you, because
you're so, you know, looking atthe end and not able to stop and
smell the roses every once in awhile.
You know.
Jeff (31:01):
It's balance.
Right, it's balance.
Yeah, it's just balance.
Jennifer (31:04):
Absolutely good stuff.
So you mentioned that you'redoing you told me this off
camera you're doing somecommunity work.
Did I get that correctly, oryou're?
Jeff (31:11):
on the.
I mean, what else to look aboutthat?
I'm involved with theParkinson's community in San
Diego.
My wife is medical and herwhole practice is Parkinson's.
So I have a hundred friendswith Parkinson's and so I've
chosen that basically as theplace to put as much of my
energy as I can, you know,socially.
So you know I do, I just do alot of work for that
(31:32):
organization in terms of, youknow, content and newsletters
and video and stuff like that.
It's really fun, it's reallysatisfying.
And then I started this littlepassion project called the
Institute of Purpose and it cameup because I love the name, I
just think it's the coolest name.
(31:53):
And I was having coffee with afriend of mine.
He said I got this name, Idon't know what to do with, and
he told me it's the Institute ofPurpose.
Oh, my God, we have to dosomething with that because the
name's amazing.
And then, you know, sometimeswhen I tell this story I talk
about it like remember in highschool when somebody had they
named their band before they hadthe band right.
So we've got this cool name fora band but now, yeah, we don't
(32:15):
have a drummer, we don't knowwhat kind of music we're playing
.
Yeah, we don't know anything, wecan't read music, but they have
the name, right.
That's kind of what theInstitute of Purpose was.
So for about two years nowwe've been kind of honing this
into something, and where it isright now it's a simple website
and it's just got a collectionof very short videos of people
(32:37):
talking about what is theirpurpose?
Why do they get up in themorning?
What happens when they losepurpose?
What happens when they discoversomething outside of their
normal purview that says, oh myGod, just doing this gives me
purpose, right?
My wife leads internationaltracks every other year to all
over the place, to crazy placesfor people with Parkinson's.
Ad (32:59):
Oh, wow.
Jeff (32:59):
So we've taken people with Parkinson's to Mount Everest
Base Camp, to Machu Picchu, tothe community of Santiago, to
Dolomites.
Next year we're going to theKamano Kodo the pilgrimage in
Japan, and this is people doingmore than they can even imagine
they could do.
Yeah, and it's an incrediblepurpose-driven project for her.
(33:24):
So for me, the whole purposething was kind of about well,
let's just see if we can createa place where people can go look
and listen to people talk abouttheir purpose, and it's just
been this really interestingthing.
So I don't know, there are 20or 30 little short videos.
When you listen to them,there's a spoiler alert.
(33:45):
When you listen to them,they're all the same.
They're all are.
My purpose is to help otherpeople, but the road to that
helping is different.
20 times Right, and it'sfascinating to hear how people
have discovered ways in theirown life to help other people
(34:06):
and use that as a way to havepurpose.
So it's just a place where it'slike I don't know, I wanna do
something good for the world.
I don't know what to do.
Well, check out these videosNow here's a dancer, here's a
coach, here's a this, here's athat, here's a medical whatever,
and listen to how other peoplehave kind of found ways within
(34:28):
their own work, family,lifestyle, to either within or
without of their comfort zone,to help others, and it's just
been a great project.
So I encourage everybody to gotake a look at the Institute for
Purpose, yeah it sounds amazing.
Jennifer (34:43):
Yeah well, and you said something good because I
wanna ask you this next questionand I've got a couple phone
ones I wanna ask you, and thisone is one that I ask a lot of
people, and they all kind of saythe same thing to me in very in
just different words, but themessaging is always the same.
I would love to know and youkind of said a lot of this
already to me in different partsof this clip but I would love
to know how you, as anentrepreneur and a creator and
(35:05):
doing all these different thingsyou do, how you define success,
like what does that look likein your world?
Jeff (35:13):
You know, we were trying to find a metric for scuba
diving.
Right, because in cyclingthere's power targets, in
running there's splits, insports, it's easy to come up
(35:37):
with a metric right.
We were trying to come up withsomething in scuba like what is
the metric in scuba diving?
Is your buoyancy perfect?
You know, there's no way tomeasure it.
So one of our instructors wewere talking about this a few
months ago he said I think themetric is satisfaction and I
just think that when you takethat into a more global thought,
(36:01):
the fact that I feel successfulin my life because I feel very,
very satisfied with how my daysgo right I get up this morning
I went to the gym.
I had a great workout, you know.
I've got all this cool stuff todo.
I'm meeting you, which isfantastic.
You know.
I've got a bike ride thisafternoon.
(36:22):
I'm going to wrap this day outwith a glass of wine tonight in
front of a fire, thinking thiswas a really satisfying day and
to me that makes it successful.
So I think it's internal.
I think success is internal andI think you have to come up
with your own metric for it.
But when there's no measurablemetric, right, a successful bike
(36:46):
ride for me is can I hit mynumbers?
Did I do a good workout?
A successful day for me was amI satisfied with how the day
went?
Do I feel good about it?
Did I help someone?
It's simple, yeah.
Jennifer (36:58):
I love that question.
That's why I said I feel likewe all kind of say is sort of
the same thing, Everybody justhas a different spin, kind of
like your stories.
Everybody kind of says the samemessage, but how they find it is
different.
I interviewed a girl once.
I'll leave you with this, andthen I have a couple of
questions.
I interviewed a girl once wholost her husband.
They both got cancer.
He got pancreatic cancer, diedwithin, I think, six weeks.
So she traveled all over theworld to basically look for
(37:22):
these 14 things that she definedas love, and she said every
time she would go to look forthe one thing, she'd find it in
a different way, and so it kindof made me think of that, that
she sort of had this metric.
She was fine, but it was alwaysthis heart centered thing like
it would change her wholeperspective of how she went
about finding it.
Kind of like we've saidthroughout this whole thing
about you know the way we'vebeen learning and getting people
(37:42):
to.
We think we're going to get itthis one way, but it ends up
really being a different way.
That we're getting that across,that how we're making them
better scuba divers, a betterperson, however that is, then
everything in this whole thinghas been about this, the same
messaging, but we're we'rehelping them find it in a
different way, yeah, no, it'sreally cool your filmmaking has
come into play so much with this, because I'm like this was such
a great analogy for me.
(38:02):
all of this, because I'm like,oh my gosh, this is what I'm
talking about, but you just puta different spin on it, so it
was all good.
I love it.
Jeff (38:08):
Okay, great.
Jennifer (38:09):
It was good.
Okay, have a couple funquestions I want to ask and then
we'll wrap this thing up.
So because?
You are an athlete.
I love to ask this question tomy athlete people because
they're like me.
They probably eat pretty goodmost of the time, so I would
love to know.
Maybe just one guilty pleasure,food like what's the one thing
that you're like?
This is not good, but I love it.
Ad (38:28):
That's a hard one.
Jeff (38:29):
It is because it means I have to admit something, right,
sorry, no, no, no, it's goodbecause I have this whole thing
about nutrition that I try notto eat food I can't pronounce.
That's kind of my metric onnutrition, right, if I can't
recognize I can't pronounce it,I try not to eat it.
So, although if there's icecream in the house, it's a goner
(38:50):
.
Jennifer (38:51):
Yeah, I like ice cream , that's fine too.
I'm not a big junk food eater,but there are certain things.
Yeah, I like chocolate too.
I don't eat a lot of it, butyeah, there's a couple things.
Jeff (39:00):
It's probably the same for everybody, right?
I mean, we all try to be holierthan thou about nutrition, yeah
, right, and of course that's nofun.
Jennifer (39:09):
I know, I know, not fun, All right, is there a
favorite?
Maybe like a favorite, I wantto say a favorite book, like one
that had a profound effect onyou, anything that stands out in
your mind.
Yeah, I hope you got it.
Jeff (39:22):
Where is it?
Oh, I can never find this thingwhen I need it.
Okay, it's a little tiny bookby a guy named George Leonard,
called Mastery.
Jennifer (39:33):
Mastery.
Okay, it's a short little read.
Jeff (39:36):
It's kind of about the education process.
It's where I've learned a lotabout plateau learning and how
we function on plateaus and howthe plateau is the cool place to
be and the jumps to plateau arelike necessary evils to get to
(39:56):
a place where you can just havelearned something new and live
that new.
So yeah, I'm sorry, I couldn'tfind it.
Jennifer (40:02):
It's fine.
This is how I get a book list.
It's good, All right.
One last question I want to askyou.
So when you got one more, I gotone more.
Jeff (40:08):
Okay, there's a book by a woman named Annie Duke okay, who
is a poker player called.
Jennifer (40:14):
I know this one.
Jeff (40:15):
Yeah, called quit, probably one of the best reads
I've ever done.
It's this fascinating,fascinating psychological story
on quitting In business, insports, in poker, in life.
Jennifer (40:28):
I feel like somebody else told me about this one.
I feel like I've heard this one.
Jeff (40:31):
You gotta read this book.
This book is just it's lifechanging.
It's amazing.
Jennifer (40:36):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for bringing that up.
Okay, one last question.
I want to ask you when youtrained, because I know how I am
when I train for my run and allthat stuff.
Music or no music?
Jeff (40:45):
No, music, no music.
Jennifer (40:47):
Okay, yeah, you said it's because it's like your
meditation.
Jeff (40:50):
Meditative.
Jennifer (40:51):
Meditative yeah.
My husband so he runs theselong endurance, and he does not
do any music either.
That's his time to kind offight.
So I get it.
Jeff (41:01):
Yeah, my wife does podcasts when she rides her bike
.
She's a beast on the bike, butI am.
I like pedal stroke.
Jennifer (41:10):
Yeah.
You like to zone in and just beinto the thing.
Jeff (41:13):
Yeah, just get focused right, I get it.
Jennifer (41:15):
I get it All right.
Well, very cool.
This has been so much fun, Jeff.
So if our listeners want to getin touch, maybe they want to
figure out about the scubaprogram, maybe the passion
project or any of these things.
Where do we want to send themso they can find you?
Jeff (41:26):
So the scuba thing is utdscuba divingcom Okay, that's
easy.
And the Institute of Purposeorg, okay, is the fun place.
Okay, and if anybody wants todo a story, or you if you'd like
to do a little 30 second videoabout purpose, we'll just record
one and I'll drop it on thewebsite.
Jennifer (41:46):
Yeah, yeah, fun.
Okay, we'll make sure too, whenwe get all this together, we'll
make sure we get those websitesin there, so people know how to
find you too.
I get my editor's pretty good.
He'll get everything in there,so it's been a lot of fun.
I want to thank you for sharingwith us and talking about all
the cool things you got going on, and congratulations on your
world record and the projectcoming.
You know working on the onethat's coming up in 2025.
It'll be fun to see all thishappening for you, so yeah thank
(42:10):
you for all of that.
It's been fun.
Jeff (42:12):
Thank you, it's been great to talk to you.
Jennifer (42:14):
Awesome.
We do want to say, of course,to our listeners if you enjoy
the show, head on over to Apple,give us a review over there.
You can hit that subscribebutton on YouTube so we can keep
sharing all these fun stories.
And, as I always say, in orderto live the extraordinary, you
must start.
Every start begins with adecision.
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Dreamers.
I'm your host, jennifer Loading, and we are talking to the
achievers, the creators, themagic makers and the dreamers.
These are our friends, theseare your friends and they are
living the extraordinary Well.
My guest today, I want to say,is a lifelong adventure.
He's done so many neat things.
He's been a filmmaker andeducator.
He's worn many hats whiteinstructor, scoop instructor
(00:45):
trainer, mentor to numerousemerging film directors and
instructor for countless filmworkshops.
He's an accomplished cyclistand has a record.
He's a record holder and plansto attempt another world record
here in 2025 as a master athlete.
So I'm super excited to chatwith him.
I think you guys are going tobe in for an awesome treat today
.
But before I bring him on, I doneed to do a quick shout out to
(01:08):
our sponsor.
This episode is brought to youby Walt Mills Productions.
Need to add excitement to yourYouTube videos or some expert
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your content shine, all right.
(01:49):
So, with that said, we got toget our guests on Super excited
about this, so I just lost mypaper, jeff.
All right.
So Jeff, second door, the doerof many things, owns and
operates UTD scuba diving,specializing in comprehensive
training and certification.
With the lifetime of coaching,mentoring and teaching adults,
he brings a unique coachingparadigm to scuba diving.
For Jeff, it's not just aboutgetting certified, it's about
(02:10):
becoming better, and so we'reexcited to get him on here.
I know he's got a big thingcoming up.
He's doing some cool things inthe community and so, jeff,
welcome to behind the dreamers.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Jeff (02:20):
Yeah, great Jennifer, so happy to be here.
Jennifer (02:23):
So where do we start?
Oh my gosh, you got so manythings going on.
You've got like you're acyclist.
You've done all these coolthings.
You've got this scuba divingcertification that you're doing,
so tell us what you're workingon right now.
I tell us a little bit aboutthe scuba diving and what you're
working on at this presentmoment.
Jeff (02:37):
So the scuba diving thing is a company I own.
I've had it since 2008.
It's unified team diving and weare a global scuba
certification and trainingagency.
So that's a core business forme and that's just what I do and
you know my particular role.
I run it and I run around theworld training instructors and
instructor trainers.
(02:57):
So that's it's a really superfun, crazy fun really fun, fun
game.
You know I mean.
This is the epitome of do whatyou love and the money will
follow.
It's like this is super fun.
Jennifer (03:09):
Yeah, and you've traveled quite extensively with
the scuba diving.
Did I read that correctly?
Yeah, yeah, pretty mucheverywhere, yeah, and we just
you're gonna laugh at me Like Ihave very little knowledge of
scuba diving.
I've had friends that have doneit.
I did this like one like scubadiving course in a swimming pool
, like we were like trainingjust to use, like the scuba
diving equipment.
(03:29):
You just got to start somewhereright.
So I'm sure you get people likeme who come in and like they're
like you know, brand newlearning this thing, and then
you're actually certifying thesepeople now so they can act.
Are they training or actuallyjust being certified in scuba
diving?
Jeff (03:42):
Well, it's interesting you presented that way, because
training and certification aredifferent, and it's the thing
that has really set us apartfrom the other 20 or 30 or 40
training agencies that you knowwe're much more focused on
training than just cranking outa certification, and so that
kind of takes the piece of scubaand cycling and puts it all
(04:05):
together.
Ad (04:06):
Yeah.
Jeff (04:07):
So it's kind of an interesting.
I'll see if I can piece this upfor you quickly and then we can
go into a little more more inthe weeds.
Jennifer (04:13):
You're fine, you're, you're, absolutely fine.
Jeff (04:15):
So the.
So I'm a master's athlete,right, I race a bike at a pretty
high level for an almost 70year old guy.
So it's in my life as anathlete.
I have been coached for a verylong time.
The model for many of us asendurance athletes and coaching
(04:35):
is that I have a coach.
I'm in San Diego, he lives inBoulder, but we have this online
tool and every week he sets upa calendar for me of workouts on
the bike and the gym and the,the, the, the whole thing, and I
just do them.
And I know that if I do thisprocess consistently with
(04:58):
structure, then the outcome, myoutcome, becomes a little bit
inevitable.
Right, this is the thing aboutprocess oriented training, right
, that if you do the process,the outcome generally is
inevitable.
So in scuba, in the classicscuba thing is take a class and
get a certification card, andthat card has always been the
(05:21):
holy grail for people, and wejust decided to try to turn that
absolutely on its head.
And so now you know we're verywell.
Since day one, we're veryfocused on the idea that you pay
for training but you earncertification.
So the students who come intounified team diving come in with
an expectation that they'regoing to get training and if
(05:42):
they reach a particular barthey're going to get
certification.
If not, we create a path tocompletion for them that gets
them to that goal.
But we're very process oriented.
It's so much about the process.
So what we did was we tookthose two things and my training
director in unified team divingis a triathlete, so you know we
(06:03):
kind of run parallel lives.
He's about a lot younger than Iam but, but doing the same kind
of thing, he's still a master'sathlete.
We took the coaching model thatwe use in endurance athletics
and we applied it to scubadiving and no one's ever done
this before and it's so cool.
So the students who come in tothe coaching program at unified
(06:26):
team diving come in and we callthem clients, even though
they're students, and they havea coach who is an instructor,
but we call a coach, so there'ssome semantics in here to make
it a little more friendly.
So the client has a coach andthe coach has this calendar app,
which is the exact samecalendar I use on my bike with
(06:46):
my coach, and the coach sets upa week of workouts in scuba for
the client, for the student, andthis becomes our training
process for as long as it takes,and we have a thousand memes
about this, but one of them isthat we're slowing the training
down from two weekends or fourdays to maybe six months or a
(07:12):
year.
We've had people on thisprogram for two, three years,
and the magic thing aboutcoaching and I think this is
true in coaching everywherebusiness, sports, now Scuba is
that coaching makes you better.
Right, I could do an onlinetraining program on the bike and
(07:35):
I would probably get faster,but I wouldn't get better.
My cycling coach makes mebetter, and this is the beauty
of what we do in Scuba is thatwe took this coaching program
and we said we're not gonna justmake you certified, we're gonna
make you better, and then we'regonna show you how to apply
that betterness to the rest ofyour life.
(07:56):
Oh, I get it, so it's just notScuba, yeah, right.
Jennifer (08:01):
Yeah that's good, and I'm listening to you and I think
that you know, I think you'reright, I think that's like that
in every way and I had somewords.
I wanted to kind of wrap aroundthat because I think it's when
you're focusing on the person'scoming in and they're learning
this.
It's sort of like when I wentthrough my I was in Mary Kay and
leadership for 22 years I had alot of hands-on experience.
(08:22):
You don't get a manual on howto build teams, right.
You learn how to build teamsthrough building teams, right.
But when I went through, when Iwas kind of merging out of that
and going into my own practice,I went and got a life coaching
certification and it was sort ofthe same thing Like when I went
into it.
I went into it to get thecoaching experience.
It wasn't to be certified inthe coaching, it was to go
through and learn how to be abetter leader.
And we actually had to gothrough.
(08:44):
You know, when I started goingthrough that, I thought you know
what I'm gonna do this coachingprogram, but I don't even care
about the certification.
That's not why I did it.
It wasn't to go get the.
You can go online and do acoaching certification.
You're right, you can just goget one Doesn't make you a
better coach or a better leader,right?
Anybody can say you know I'mthese things without having had
the experience.
But I went into it and I wentin because I wanted to be a
(09:04):
better leader, and so I took thecourse without really having
any intention of using it foranything other than to be more
effective, communicating withthe team that I was working with
, and so I think the approach isdifferent.
When you come in, you know,with that standpoint of how am I
working to be better?
Right, then you, those are kindof like the icings on the cake,
right, like you get those inthe after.
Yes, you can go for thecertification, but it's really
(09:27):
about being a better, whateverit is, in your end, knowing your
skill, knowing your craft,knowing how to do it well and
being effective, so that, hey,you can also show it and apply
it right.
And so you see a lot of reallygood things there, and I think
the athleticism is so good inthis.
Jeff (09:41):
Was that a good experience for you?
Was that a process that led toan outcome without worrying
about a certification right.
Jennifer (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, well, in many ways, yes, and I think I've
approached everything from thatangle.
I feel like I do that witheverything I do.
I, yeah, I set goals for things, but I really, even when I work
with my clients, I'm reallyabout I'm not about showing my
client here's what I need you todo.
I'm about how do I make theclient make transformation right
, like, how do I get them tomake the transformation that
they need so it sticks and theycan use it in all areas of their
(10:11):
lives?
It doesn't just apply in whatthey're doing, because all these
principles that we learn likeyou kind of just said that,
right, you took your cycling andyou took the things that you
learned from that and you movedit into this other practice that
you do, right, because theprinciples are kind of this are
universal, right, we just havethem a little bit differently
within the work, but we learnthese skillsets and these things
(10:31):
, whatever that is, whether it's, you know, discipline or all of
these things that we can applythem in these other areas.
So for me, yeah, it's it's whenyou were saying all this.
I can absolutely resonate withall of it, because nothing I've
ever done has been about hey,how do we get a certification?
It's been.
How do we make somethingeffectively where somebody
becomes better at what they'redoing with it?
(10:51):
You know, hopefully it's betterbeing a better human being,
jeff.
Jeff (10:54):
That's what my goal is.
That's my goal.
Well, you know, you saidsomething really interesting to
me in that last moment, which isabout learning it by yourself,
learning it on your own.
And you know education.
You know the classic definitionis creating a change in
behavior in your students.
But if you don't add retentionto that change, then what's?
(11:17):
There's no point, right, if youchange behavior and they can do
that in your class and thenthey forget it the next day, it
doesn't matter.
So what we're doing in theeducation program and in UDD and
with the coaching program isworking on behavior change with
retention, and that is the pieceof this that is so interesting.
(11:41):
So in the coaching program inScuba, none of the coaches live
in the same town as theirclients for the most part,
because the coaches areeverywhere.
We're all over the world, thestudents are all over the world
and we just put them togetherusing Zoom and phone and this
calendar app and stuff.
One of the things that alwayssounds like I'm selling snake
(12:04):
oil when I'm talking to peopleabout signing up and trying the
Scuba coaching program is thatit's an it's Scuba, it's diving,
it's water, it's like normallyyou have an instructor and these
instructors with you and you gofor a dive and they critique
you.
And in the coaching program,what we do is we send people
(12:24):
into a pool with a buddy and acamera and we give them a skill
set to work on and then theycome back with the video and
upload the video for their coach.
Now this is where the snake oilthing comes in.
It sounds like hooey right,like we're just trying to
convince you to take a somethingweird online Scuba course,
(12:46):
which seems impossible.
What we found over the years isthat so we look at a skill
you're trying to do like a backkick right, kicking backward
which is a really valuable scubaskill and sometimes it's hard
for people to get.
So they watch a video, we talkabout it, go in the pool, try it
(13:08):
and then come back with a videoand we critique that video.
Normally we would just fix themon the spot.
I'd move their feet, do likethis or this.
But in this situation it's likeokay, I need you to think about
this, right, I need you tothink this in your head when
you're moving your feet likethis.
Go try it again.
So now we're forcing them toconnect their own process to the
(13:35):
physical stuff, make aneuro-mechanical change and come
back with another video.
Basically, what's happening isthey're learning it themselves,
and that's where the retentionpart it's a game changer,
because we know that retentionfrom learning it yourself is so
much deeper than retention fromhaving somebody move your body.
(13:57):
So it's a hard sell becausenobody believes it until they're
in, and then all of a suddenit's like holy crap, this really
works.
Jennifer (14:08):
You know what this makes me think of.
When you say this, I feel likeit makes me think the difference
between a consultant and acoach, if you were to
differentiate the two.
And this is something that Ihave to talk to people when they
come to me, because people willcome to me and they say and I'm
sure you get this a lot of themwant you to tell them exactly
what to do what to do, RightLike that's what you're saying
in the water move their legsaround, right, when it's their
(14:29):
idea.
And this is where I talk to themabout the coach and the
consultant.
I say, if I told you everythingto do, you're not going to buy
into it, right, like you're notgoing to buy into what I'm
telling you because it's myideas, and you're going to go
home and be like, yeah, jennifertold me to do that, but if it's
your idea, you're going to getbehind it.
So all I do is facilitate andhelp you figure out what you
need to do.
I'm there to give you somesuggestions and help facilitate
it.
But you are so right when yousaid that to me.
(14:51):
That's exactly what I'mpicturing, kind of the
difference between somebodycoming in and telling you
exactly what to do and somebodyfacilitating a process for you
to begin to realize it's youridea, your thought, your concept
, you noticed it, right, andthen you retain it.
Jeff (15:06):
Yeah, and the first time this happens, the light bulb
that goes off it says oh my God,you know, with guidance I can
learn these skills better.
And because our whole goal isto slow the process down, I
don't care how long it takes, Idon't care if it takes you eight
tries to get this skill right,it doesn't matter.
Just what we're doing is we'regiving ourselves the permission
(15:31):
to take whatever time it needs,and it's all because we're
getting rid of this pressure ofoutcome.
Yeah Right, the outcome is justinevitable, but it happens.
When it happens, you've got toretain.
Yeah, I know I get what you'resaying totally.
Jennifer (15:49):
And that's kind of that's.
I get it because that's sort ofkind of the way that you know,
when I do my work.
In fact, I was just telling Iwas interviewing some guys
before this.
I was telling them that I hadcreated a program, a coaching
program, and I said one of thethings about it that I was
trying to do is make it more ina storytelling form, because
people, when they can relatethings to messaging you know,
(16:11):
when they can see you can tellsomebody like, for instance, you
can tell somebody like haveintegrity, well, what does that
look like To you?
It may be something else to me,somebody else, right?
But if you can show, this iswhat I'm trying to show you.
This is an action verb of whatintegrity looks like.
Here's a story that shows it.
They're, you know, a child.
They're going to retain it.
They're going to have a betterretaining of this than if you
(16:31):
just told them this and they gotto write that down, you know,
and so I like it.
I like what you're doing and Ican see how that.
You know the difference in whatyou, the model that you're
doing, versus hey, let's get thecertification.
You know, let's get them versedin what they're doing.
Get them to be a better scubadive, get them to retain the
skills.
Yeah, it's that.
Jeff (16:48):
Yeah, it's called playable direction In filmmaking.
It's called playable direction,right.
If you tell an actor to youknow, play, you know you did,
okay, but be sexier, right?
Well then what the actor saysis oh my God, he doesn't think
I'm sexy, so let me try to besexy the way I think he thinks.
I think he thinks I should be.
But you know, if you tell anactor to do something like you
(17:11):
know, play this like the firsttime you're in the backseat of a
car with your boyfriend in highschool.
Jennifer (17:15):
Right.
Jeff (17:16):
It's like boom, now I've got a connection, I got a
picture.
I got a picture an emotion, someaction, and I can create
something from inside myself.
That's kind of what we're doing, and I don't think it's unique
to our coaching program, becauseI also coach athletes and I'm a
coached athlete, bubba.
I think playable directionbecomes like this really
critical piece of it that says agood coach will give you
(17:38):
something that's playable.
Yeah, and that's what you'retalking about.
You're saying let's give ourclients a way to learn that they
can actually do the learning,not just the repetition.
And it's in the doing of thelearning where you know now
we're starting to repeatourselves, but that's where
they're returning.
Jennifer (17:58):
Oh, I love it.
This is so good.
I'm glad I even talked to youtoday, because I never know
where these shows are going togo.
But I love it because you'rebasically saying what I'm
talking about in differentlanguages.
And it's great because youbrought in the filmmaking, the
biking, the scoop, it's all cometogether.
We're talking about completelydifferent things, but they
really all are connected in someway.
And it's the method and this iswhat I tell people all the time
(18:19):
when they're out looking forcoaches and stuff, because
there's so many people that goout in all these fields and they
go sign up for a course andthey're like, hey, today I'm a
life coach and I'm like, can youtell me?
But have you had any life?
I'm like, have you had, firstof all, any life experience?
And then I'm thinking, how areyou getting your people to
retain in them when you're justtelling them to go home and like
, do this thing repetitively andthey have never even been to
the gym First of all, never evenbeen to the gym on any given
(18:41):
day.
And they're going to go now,but seven days for two hours.
I used to be a Robus instructor.
I know how that works.
It doesn't.
Jeff (18:47):
Really they come in on January and the fall and the arm
warmers and the leg warmers andthe whole thing.
Oh, I love that.
Jennifer (18:53):
But then come in and January they pack out the gym
and guess what.
Six weeks they're gone.
Jeff (18:58):
I know it matters.
So I'm going to tell you.
Jennifer (19:01):
We bring different things.
Like, I feel like I have thesedifferent areas of my life that
I can bring in and I'm like Ihave stories for them.
I love it.
So your cyclist we talked aboutthat.
You've got a big thing comingup that you're working on in
2025.
Am I correct?
Tell us a little bit aboutwhat's going on with this.
Jeff (19:15):
Yeah, you know, I ride and race on the track, on the
Velodrome, and I love the trackRight, it's probably, to me it's
the purest form of cycling.
Right, because you're on aconfined space.
It's just a little oval.
It's 250 or 330 meters To it,so it's very small.
It's very confined.
You can go very fast.
(19:36):
The bike has one gear, nobrakes.
Wow, you can ride against theclock or you can ride against
other people.
So I'll go out and I'll do a twoor three hour workout on the
track and it's not a meditation,but it's very meditative to me.
So it gets me in my own head asa cyclist and track racing is
(19:57):
traditionally short events.
Often, you know, at themaster's level, these, you know,
like these pursuits and timetrials, are two and a half
minutes, maybe three minutes,and I was looking for something
longer which sort of suits mybody.
And you know I got learningabout the hour record.
And the hour record is such asimple thing, right, it's how
(20:20):
far can you make your bike go inan hour.
And it's been going on sincethe 1800s.
It's this iconic thing.
It goes through waves.
Right, right now it's veryfashionable to try an hour
record Five years ago likenobody was doing, and the hour
record is crazy.
It's up to 56 kilometers.
Wow, I mean, that's like way upin the 30 mile, 30 plus mile an
(20:43):
hour range.
So in my age group it's about44 kilometers, about 27 miles.
So I'm training to see if I canactually get my bike to go 27
miles in an hour and it's a fiveyear process for me.
All of my work on the bike isgeared toward that, toward that
goal, and we'll see if it'sfeasible.
(21:05):
These people keep coming alongand raising it, you know.
That's how it is right.
Ad (21:10):
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Jeff (22:15):
And that's what we're doing today.
We're doing a leadership gametoday, ready to shine brighter
than other, than life Exciting.
I'm 68.
I'll be racing at age 70 in2025.
You know, we race on our thewhole year.
You're born Right, that's yourracing age.
So anytime after 2025, I canattack this thing at age 70.
And we'll see.
Jennifer (22:36):
It's exciting.
Jeff (22:37):
It's about the process.
Yeah, definitely, I would neverdo it, but the outcome becomes
less important.
I want the outcome, you know, Iwant to be successful at this,
but the process is the thingthat makes me feel like what I'm
doing on the bike applies to mylife.
You know, if I go and do asuper hard workout that I think
(22:58):
is almost too hard to completeand I finish it, then I come
back and I solve some.
You know, a piece of paperproblem on my desk, whatever it
is, it's like, well, you know, Ijust crushed the idea.
I crushed, you know, a thresholdworkout on my bike, sitting
here and figuring out thislittle paper website thing,
(23:18):
email, it's like nothing, right,yeah, so applying the process
of something really, really hardwhich is what this bike thing
is to being, you know, a betterhusband, a better grandparent,
better cook, better, you knowhandyman, whatever it happens to
(23:42):
be, you do and you like, right,yeah, I just try to take all
that stuff on the bike betterbusiness owner, for sure and
apply it to all these otherthings.
And that trickles down to me asa coach, saying my goal for my
clients is, yes, to make youbetter on the bike or, yes, to
make you better in scuba, but,most importantly, to give you
(24:03):
the tools to take thatbetterness and stick it on
something that matters to you,maybe more than the bike, right?
Yeah, like being a parent orbeing a grandparent, or being a
spouse, or something like that.
That's good.
So that's kind of why all thatconnects for me and it's why I
(24:23):
love the process so much.
Jennifer (24:25):
Yeah, it's really neat that you say all that too and I
always say, you know, like Iwas, I feel like how we do one
thing is sort of kind of how wedo all things.
Jeff (24:34):
And so I would think, huh.
It's a good way to look at it.
Jennifer (24:37):
Yeah.
So I kind of feel like you know, when, you know, like when I
kind of I always feel like whenpeople seek out and I'll talk
about like coaches, specific youknow they'll seek them out for
certain reasons, like that wehave a crisis in their life or
they want to grow their businessor something, and really, at
the core, we have to go back tomaking them a better, a better.
I was, I hate to say, likehuman because I've had people go
(24:59):
what if I'm already a betterhuman?
Like, trust me, none of us arebetter humans.
We're working on that every day.
Jeff (25:03):
That's the process.
Jennifer (25:04):
Right, you can't say that to people, but I know deep
down if we're trying to work ona business, there's probably
some leadership things we got.
There's things we got to workon right.
And so I love what you'resaying about this whole exercise
, because that is really kind ofsort of how, like when I went
even in this, I didn't realizethat that was really my entryway
into how I got to where I eventoday.
I went in initially because Ijust wanted to exercise and then
(25:27):
it became about how does theexercise transfer to my life?
How does it make me a bettermom, coworker, entrepreneur how
does it transfer into that?
And so I've been working out.
I put a post up the other daythat I, you know I've been
actively doing some kind ofworking out for like 20
something years.
I started in my late 20s.
I'm in my fifties now and I wentfrom teaching aerobics.
(25:48):
I've done marathons, I've donedifferent things.
There's not a day, really, thatgoes by unless I make a
conscious decision and I saytoday I'm going to rest, I'm not
going to exercise.
That doesn't happen very often.
I exercise pretty much everyday.
If I almost walk my dogs everyday, if I'm not, I'm running,
I'm at the gym because for meit's just part of what I do
every day and, like you said,you know the problem that you're
(26:10):
solving.
I feel like it does.
It allows me the ability to getthrough all the other things
that I need to do, whatever thatis in that particular day.
And so I know evenpsychological guys say, if I
don't work out like, you don'tprobably want to be around me
because I could kind of be crazy.
Jeff (26:23):
Yeah, yeah, I knew it.
You know it's funny.
I know I've known writers whohave said the best part of
writing is having written.
This is a really interestingthing to me and I talk about
this a lot, you know, withclients, because what that means
is they hate the process, theywant the outcome.
Right, yeah, finishing writingtakes one second right, you just
(26:46):
push, send Right the five yearsit took to write the book, the
screenplay, the thing, whateveryou're doing, if you hate that
process but you want the outcomeso badly, you just threw five
years of life into, like thishell bucket.
Jennifer (26:58):
That one thing.
Jeff (27:00):
Yeah, for the point of this, one little thing, and who
knows if it'll get accepted,published, blah, blah, blah.
The whole point of this isyou've got to just take the
process and embrace it, nomatter what.
It is no-transcript, even ifthe outcome is not successful.
Right, like on this hour thing.
If I get to a point in 2025 andwe look at the record and we
(27:21):
look at my physiology and mytime, my budget, my training and
all this and we say, look,you're two kilometers away from
this thing, don't waste the next20 grand to go do it, I'm gonna
say, okay, it's like, okay,let's change direction, so let's
not waste the money.
I did a great job.
I enjoyed the five years.
It was really good.
I learned a ton.
Let's go a slightly differentdirection where I can be
(27:43):
successful with an outcome, butwe'll continue in the process,
right?
So if I can't do it at 70, I'lldo it at 75.
I can't do it at 75, we'll doit at 80.
It doesn't matter to me.
And actually, finally, at onepoint I was talking to a sports
psychologist about this it'slike what is the situation if
(28:06):
you get too into process, right?
This was a really interestingconversation because I had
drifted down this road whereoutcome didn't matter, process
was everything, and I found whatwas happening to me was I
wasn't working hard enough inthe workouts because the outcome
didn't matter.
It's like, well, I'm supposedto do a three hour ride today,
but if I do two, so what itwon't matter.
(28:29):
I take it a little longer toget to my goal.
What I learned in the workingwith that amazing person was
that outcome can drive yourenergy into the process and make
the process that much better.
It changed my whole perspectiveon outcome and it got me to a
point where I made the processharder and better.
(28:52):
It was a really interestingcircle and it was like in front
of me but, I was so holier thannow about oh no outcome doesn't
matter, winning doesn't matter.
Nothing matters.
What matters is that you do agreat job as your training, and
that's just all bullshit.
You need to have a reason to doit.
And then I think, you can goback and say, okay, I love the
(29:15):
process.
Jennifer (29:16):
No, I agree with you and it's interesting that you
even brought that up about thebook.
I just interviewed a hip hop rapartist that just released like
a graphic novel book and he gotit picked up by Dark Horse,
which I guess is kind of a bigin the comic deal, and he was
talking about that.
It was a five year process to dothis and he's talked
specifically about because Iasked him what did you love
(29:37):
about all this, like what weresome of the challenges?
And they were talking abouttaking on this project and how
long it took and really enjoyingthe process and now kind of
seeing the fruits of their labornow happening.
But had they not enjoyed thatprocess because they had
released the book and then theybasically relaunched it again.
So they went through a wholeanother process of that.
So I think there's so manygreat takeaways in this and I'm
(30:00):
with you on all of that.
I think that we you know Ialways compare it to like having
a baby or running a marathon Isay you work so hard to get
those two things and if you'rejust waiting for that day and
not trying to enjoy it, you'regonna be absolutely miserable
when you get done.
You're gonna come out of thatmarathon, cause I know I've done
it.
You're gonna come out andyou're gonna be like why in the
hell did I do that?
Cause that sucked right.
It's about trying to find thevictory and the win in that.
(30:21):
And I do agree with you, too,on having the goals too.
You don't want to be so whereyou're just well, I don't care
if I reach a goal, because I'mjust enjoying all this, you know
, cause then you just kind ofdon't get there right.
You want to be able to figureout where the goal is and enjoy
the process with it.
But I'm with you on all of that.
I think it's important, I thinkwe get sometimes so hell bent on
having the goal that we missall the silver lining.
(30:44):
Really, we miss everythingaround us, and I think it was
Jordan Peterson that talkedabout that.
Where you like, it's so laserfocused on the goal that you
don't see even the opportunitiesthat come around you, because
you're so, you know, looking atthe end and not able to stop and
smell the roses every once in awhile.
You know.
Jeff (31:01):
It's balance.
Right, it's balance.
Yeah, it's just balance.
Jennifer (31:04):
Absolutely good stuff.
So you mentioned that you'redoing you told me this off
camera you're doing somecommunity work.
Did I get that correctly, oryou're?
Jeff (31:11):
on the.
I mean, what else to look aboutthat?
I'm involved with theParkinson's community in San
Diego.
My wife is medical and herwhole practice is Parkinson's.
So I have a hundred friendswith Parkinson's and so I've
chosen that basically as theplace to put as much of my
energy as I can, you know,socially.
So you know I do, I just do alot of work for that
(31:32):
organization in terms of, youknow, content and newsletters
and video and stuff like that.
It's really fun, it's reallysatisfying.
And then I started this littlepassion project called the
Institute of Purpose and it cameup because I love the name, I
just think it's the coolest name.
(31:53):
And I was having coffee with afriend of mine.
He said I got this name, Idon't know what to do with, and
he told me it's the Institute ofPurpose.
Oh, my God, we have to dosomething with that because the
name's amazing.
And then, you know, sometimeswhen I tell this story I talk
about it like remember in highschool when somebody had they
named their band before they hadthe band right.
So we've got this cool name fora band but now, yeah, we don't
(32:15):
have a drummer, we don't knowwhat kind of music we're playing
.
Yeah, we don't know anything, wecan't read music, but they have
the name, right.
That's kind of what theInstitute of Purpose was.
So for about two years nowwe've been kind of honing this
into something, and where it isright now it's a simple website
and it's just got a collectionof very short videos of people
(32:37):
talking about what is theirpurpose?
Why do they get up in themorning?
What happens when they losepurpose?
What happens when they discoversomething outside of their
normal purview that says, oh myGod, just doing this gives me
purpose, right?
My wife leads internationaltracks every other year to all
over the place, to crazy placesfor people with Parkinson's.
Ad (32:59):
Oh, wow.
Jeff (32:59):
So we've taken people with Parkinson's to Mount Everest
Base Camp, to Machu Picchu, tothe community of Santiago, to
Dolomites.
Next year we're going to theKamano Kodo the pilgrimage in
Japan, and this is people doingmore than they can even imagine
they could do.
Yeah, and it's an incrediblepurpose-driven project for her.
(33:24):
So for me, the whole purposething was kind of about well,
let's just see if we can createa place where people can go look
and listen to people talk abouttheir purpose, and it's just
been this really interestingthing.
So I don't know, there are 20or 30 little short videos.
When you listen to them,there's a spoiler alert.
(33:45):
When you listen to them,they're all the same.
They're all are.
My purpose is to help otherpeople, but the road to that
helping is different.
20 times Right, and it'sfascinating to hear how people
have discovered ways in theirown life to help other people
(34:06):
and use that as a way to havepurpose.
So it's just a place where it'slike I don't know, I wanna do
something good for the world.
I don't know what to do.
Well, check out these videosNow here's a dancer, here's a
coach, here's a this, here's athat, here's a medical whatever,
and listen to how other peoplehave kind of found ways within
(34:28):
their own work, family,lifestyle, to either within or
without of their comfort zone,to help others, and it's just
been a great project.
So I encourage everybody to gotake a look at the Institute for
Purpose, yeah it sounds amazing.
Jennifer (34:43):
Yeah well, and you said something good because I
wanna ask you this next questionand I've got a couple phone
ones I wanna ask you, and thisone is one that I ask a lot of
people, and they all kind of saythe same thing to me in very in
just different words, but themessaging is always the same.
I would love to know and youkind of said a lot of this
already to me in different partsof this clip but I would love
to know how you, as anentrepreneur and a creator and
(35:05):
doing all these different thingsyou do, how you define success,
like what does that look likein your world?
Jeff (35:13):
You know, we were trying to find a metric for scuba
diving.
Right, because in cyclingthere's power targets, in
running there's splits, insports, it's easy to come up
(35:37):
with a metric right.
We were trying to come up withsomething in scuba like what is
the metric in scuba diving?
Is your buoyancy perfect?
You know, there's no way tomeasure it.
So one of our instructors wewere talking about this a few
months ago he said I think themetric is satisfaction and I
just think that when you takethat into a more global thought,
(36:01):
the fact that I feel successfulin my life because I feel very,
very satisfied with how my daysgo right I get up this morning
I went to the gym.
I had a great workout, you know.
I've got all this cool stuff todo.
I'm meeting you, which isfantastic.
You know.
I've got a bike ride thisafternoon.
(36:22):
I'm going to wrap this day outwith a glass of wine tonight in
front of a fire, thinking thiswas a really satisfying day and
to me that makes it successful.
So I think it's internal.
I think success is internal andI think you have to come up
with your own metric for it.
But when there's no measurablemetric, right, a successful bike
(36:46):
ride for me is can I hit mynumbers?
Did I do a good workout?
A successful day for me was amI satisfied with how the day
went?
Do I feel good about it?
Did I help someone?
It's simple, yeah.
Jennifer (36:58):
I love that question.
That's why I said I feel likewe all kind of say is sort of
the same thing, Everybody justhas a different spin, kind of
like your stories.
Everybody kind of says the samemessage, but how they find it is
different.
I interviewed a girl once.
I'll leave you with this, andthen I have a couple of
questions.
I interviewed a girl once wholost her husband.
They both got cancer.
He got pancreatic cancer, diedwithin, I think, six weeks.
So she traveled all over theworld to basically look for
(37:22):
these 14 things that she definedas love, and she said every
time she would go to look forthe one thing, she'd find it in
a different way, and so it kindof made me think of that, that
she sort of had this metric.
She was fine, but it was alwaysthis heart centered thing like
it would change her wholeperspective of how she went
about finding it.
Kind of like we've saidthroughout this whole thing
about you know the way we'vebeen learning and getting people
(37:42):
to.
We think we're going to get itthis one way, but it ends up
really being a different way.
That we're getting that across,that how we're making them
better scuba divers, a betterperson, however that is, then
everything in this whole thinghas been about this, the same
messaging, but we're we'rehelping them find it in a
different way, yeah, no, it'sreally cool your filmmaking has
come into play so much with this, because I'm like this was such
a great analogy for me.
(38:02):
all of this, because I'm like,oh my gosh, this is what I'm
talking about, but you just puta different spin on it, so it
was all good.
I love it.
Jeff (38:08):
Okay, great.
Jennifer (38:09):
It was good.
Okay, have a couple funquestions I want to ask and then
we'll wrap this thing up.
So because?
You are an athlete.
I love to ask this question tomy athlete people because
they're like me.
They probably eat pretty goodmost of the time, so I would
love to know.
Maybe just one guilty pleasure,food like what's the one thing
that you're like?
This is not good, but I love it.
Ad (38:28):
That's a hard one.
Jeff (38:29):
It is because it means I have to admit something, right,
sorry, no, no, no, it's goodbecause I have this whole thing
about nutrition that I try notto eat food I can't pronounce.
That's kind of my metric onnutrition, right, if I can't
recognize I can't pronounce it,I try not to eat it.
So, although if there's icecream in the house, it's a goner
(38:50):
.
Jennifer (38:51):
Yeah, I like ice cream , that's fine too.
I'm not a big junk food eater,but there are certain things.
Yeah, I like chocolate too.
I don't eat a lot of it, butyeah, there's a couple things.
Jeff (39:00):
It's probably the same for everybody, right?
I mean, we all try to be holierthan thou about nutrition, yeah
, right, and of course that's nofun.
Jennifer (39:09):
I know, I know, not fun, All right, is there a
favorite?
Maybe like a favorite, I wantto say a favorite book, like one
that had a profound effect onyou, anything that stands out in
your mind.
Yeah, I hope you got it.
Jeff (39:22):
Where is it?
Oh, I can never find this thingwhen I need it.
Okay, it's a little tiny bookby a guy named George Leonard,
called Mastery.
Jennifer (39:33):
Mastery.
Okay, it's a short little read.
Jeff (39:36):
It's kind of about the education process.
It's where I've learned a lotabout plateau learning and how
we function on plateaus and howthe plateau is the cool place to
be and the jumps to plateau arelike necessary evils to get to
(39:56):
a place where you can just havelearned something new and live
that new.
So yeah, I'm sorry, I couldn'tfind it.
Jennifer (40:02):
It's fine.
This is how I get a book list.
It's good, All right.
One last question I want to askyou.
So when you got one more, I gotone more.
Jeff (40:08):
Okay, there's a book by a woman named Annie Duke okay, who
is a poker player called.
Jennifer (40:14):
I know this one.
Jeff (40:15):
Yeah, called quit, probably one of the best reads
I've ever done.
It's this fascinating,fascinating psychological story
on quitting In business, insports, in poker, in life.
Jennifer (40:28):
I feel like somebody else told me about this one.
I feel like I've heard this one.
Jeff (40:31):
You gotta read this book.
This book is just it's lifechanging.
It's amazing.
Jennifer (40:36):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for bringing that up.
Okay, one last question.
I want to ask you when youtrained, because I know how I am
when I train for my run and allthat stuff.
Music or no music?
Jeff (40:45):
No, music, no music.
Jennifer (40:47):
Okay, yeah, you said it's because it's like your
meditation.
Jeff (40:50):
Meditative.
Jennifer (40:51):
Meditative yeah.
My husband so he runs theselong endurance, and he does not
do any music either.
That's his time to kind offight.
So I get it.
Jeff (41:01):
Yeah, my wife does podcasts when she rides her bike
.
She's a beast on the bike, butI am.
I like pedal stroke.
Jennifer (41:10):
Yeah.
You like to zone in and just beinto the thing.
Jeff (41:13):
Yeah, just get focused right, I get it.
Jennifer (41:15):
I get it All right.
Well, very cool.
This has been so much fun, Jeff.
So if our listeners want to getin touch, maybe they want to
figure out about the scubaprogram, maybe the passion
project or any of these things.
Where do we want to send themso they can find you?
Jeff (41:26):
So the scuba thing is utdscuba divingcom Okay, that's
easy.
And the Institute of Purposeorg, okay, is the fun place.
Okay, and if anybody wants todo a story, or you if you'd like
to do a little 30 second videoabout purpose, we'll just record
one and I'll drop it on thewebsite.
Jennifer (41:46):
Yeah, yeah, fun.
Okay, we'll make sure too, whenwe get all this together, we'll
make sure we get those websitesin there, so people know how to
find you too.
I get my editor's pretty good.
He'll get everything in there,so it's been a lot of fun.
I want to thank you for sharingwith us and talking about all
the cool things you got going on, and congratulations on your
world record and the projectcoming.
You know working on the onethat's coming up in 2025.
It'll be fun to see all thishappening for you, so yeah thank
(42:10):
you for all of that.
It's been fun.
Jeff (42:12):
Thank you, it's been great to talk to you.
Jennifer (42:14):
Awesome.
We do want to say, of course,to our listeners if you enjoy
the show, head on over to Apple,give us a review over there.
You can hit that subscribebutton on YouTube so we can keep
sharing all these fun stories.
And, as I always say, in orderto live the extraordinary, you
must start.
Every start begins with adecision.
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
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