Behind The Wand - Episode 30, Mick Audsley

This week is the 'Flick & Mick Show' where Flick is speaking to Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire editor Mick Audsley. HP 4 was a complex one to edit, not only because two other schools are introduced to Hogwarts - but the challenges included mazes, an underwater world and dragons... which proved to be quite tricky!!!

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Hello everybody, and welcome back toBehind the wand or what we're calling this
week the Flick and Mix Show,because I am interviewing Mick Ordsley, who
edited Harry Potter and The Goblet ofFire. So me and Mick are talking
about just the complexity of editing astory like this, because not only do
you have the introduction of two otherschools, but the challenges for example,

(00:34):
the whole the dragon flying all roundHogwarts and the Maize are quite tricky to
edit, so we speak about that. As always, I had to give
you a side note about my audiobecause two minutes before I'm about to interview
Mick, my laptop charger decides tobreak, which was really great with a

(00:57):
not fully charged laptop, so Ithen had to do the interview on my
phone, so the audio quality isnot great, and there is a sort
of tapping towards the end, whichI'm not sure whether my phone was tapping
against something or what it is,but I hope it doesn't take away from
the episode because I believe this istruly one of my favorites, and Mick
is such a brilliant guest, soI hope you can still enjoy it.

(01:19):
This is the flick a mixture.Okay, so we normally start at the
very beginning, which always makes mewant to sing that sound of music song,
but I'm not that How you can? You can? I mean,
I have no single voice, soI'll save you all that pain. But
how did you get involved with HarryPotter? Well? I worked for David

(01:46):
Hayman's mother as a producer on thefilm called Dangerous Liaisons, and I knew
Norma very well. And I don'tknow whether it was far Norma or the
fact that I also had worked withStuart Craig on that film. I knew
Stuart from other films and so Iknew those guys. And I initially was

(02:10):
asked to cut number two, andas it turned out, I had a
previous booking for a movie with Stephenfree Is called Dirty Pretty Things. I
hope I'm remembering the order of films, and I had committed to that as
I'd worked for Stephen for many years. So I said, no, I'm

(02:31):
afraid I can't do it because theschedule isn't favorable. And so that was
that. And then a few weeksmonths went by and one Thursday I came
home and Jesse Teel was in ourkitchen. Oh my got home and she

(02:51):
was in the kitchen and she said, we're in a bit of a mess
because Peter Honess, who was availableto cut number two, can't start for
eight weeks. So would you stepin just for that section and work with
Peter Mack and Chris Columbus. We'restarting some of the sequences as we're dubbing

(03:15):
number one, And so I saidto Jesse, yeah, I am free
because I'm waiting for this other filmI haven't so, yeah, when do
you want me to start? Thiswas Thursday, right, yeah, And
she said Monday. Actually I can'tdo Monday, but I can do Tuesday

(03:38):
at Pinewood. I think it wasPinewood or Shepard and we start. I
guess it was pine Wood. Yeah, and my first that Tuesday I went
to work, I said, andI met Chris very briefly. Was nine
to eleven Tuesday. I arrived andthe whole world was gone upside down,

(04:00):
you know my journey to work thatYeah, so we shut down. Basically,
everybody stopped me, stopped shooting.It was a day I should never
never forget. On the lighter sideof all that, I had eight very
enjoyable weeks designing and making along withPeter Matt because Chris was dubbing h two

(04:20):
aerial sequences, the one over King'sCross the cars, you know, doing
somersaults and all that, and andthe over the over the Varda, over
the train. They'd already shot alot of material, so I planned and
edited those, and I think becauseChris was so busy, I basically coordinated

(04:41):
with Peter uh and it was greatfun. I just had a ball and
he I think I saw Chris fortwo sessions of three quarters of an hour
in the eight weeks. He's agreat love it. Yeah. And that
was that, you know, Andthen I didn't have any contact with them

(05:03):
until I happened to be in NewYork working with Mike Newell. And when
the film came out and I wentto the cinema to see it and was
very pleased to see the sequences wereto the frame how I planned them.
And I sent a message to Peteto congratulate him on the rest of the
film. And that was that.Then there was obviously a gap, and

(05:28):
I guess it was I don't knowquite what two years is it, I
guess, or eighteen months and Mike, who I had worked with since on
and off since nineteen eighty four,was one of my dear friends, and
you know, we were very close. Said do you want to do number
four? I said, try andstop me. Oh great, And so

(05:54):
that's how it worked out. ButI did know David and I knew lots
of people. In fact, Stewartinvited me to go and visit, you
know, the whole art department priorto me getting the job anyway, Yeah,
to show me around, which wasa great privilege, and so I
sort of absorbed it. But Ido remember our first work on number four,

(06:15):
which was quite funny, was wewere invited to I think again at
Pine to a screening of the nowalmost finished Number three and we all sat
there, you know, oh,well, great, this is a new
gig. And then we saw thisfilm and it was terrific and we go
craiky, now we've got a topthat. Yeah. So I came home

(06:38):
thinking, oh, greggy. Andthen seventy three weeks later, yeah,
we finished. You know, itwas huge operation. Yeah. I was
very very happy. And I mustbe so nice that you sort of knew
people that were, you know,big parts of the previous films you were
coming into like a nice quite well, absolutely and flick. I mean again,

(07:00):
I may be repeating myself with stuffin the other interviews and so on,
but I cannot stress enough, particularlyon all movies, but too huge,
I mean, to an extent.I can't quite get across the collaborative
side. Is it completely? Everythingwas shared because I knew Roger Pratt very

(07:21):
well. You know, we wouldmeet every day at we had lunchtime rushes
in those days, which was true. Every day we'd see the work we've
done. I would throw food allover my stomach because I was sitting in
the dark trying to eat lunch andall that stuff. But because I knew
Stuart, because I knew David,I got to know David Barron very well.

(07:43):
Some of the cast I knew Dan. I saw a lot of I
don't know why I saw a lotof Dan, but I got to know
Dan, and you know, variousother people I'd worked with, Miranda Richardson,
people I'd worked with, So itfelt like a family of very hard
working people. And Jesse you know, of course, yeah, yeah,

(08:03):
and all of that. So yeah, I felt very, very safe and
very privileged to be there, andit, but it Boy was it hard
work. Yeah, yeah, especiallyand I had a great team. I
had a very big editorial team tosupport me, my assistants, and a

(08:24):
visual effects team Jimmy Mitchell, whoI adored, who was just help.
He literally would hold my hand andwalk me through the sets, saying,
whether there's going to be a dragonthe here? You know, Jim,
I don't know what is it goingto look. I don't know how to
cut this because I can't see it. Yeah, so that all of us,
you know, constantly. I Ithink of it as being like driftwood

(08:48):
and we're all clinging to each otherto get across the ocean. Yeah.
I guess you've spoken a little bit. You had seen the film, you
had seen the previous films, soyou thought of absolutely seeing what Richard I
saw, you know, Peter,Yeah, and all the rest of it.
So we and we all sort ofwould handle because of course they overlapped.

(09:09):
Yeah. I mean, as Isay, I was cutting when Chris
was dubbing the first one and soon, we went into shooting immediately they
were just finishing the dub of numberthree. So it was it was like
a massive operation. And to thisday, I don't have the David's kind
of got all this. Yeah,the logistics of it must have been insane

(09:31):
and also a great I mean,the key thing to all of this is
that because I knew Mike so welland we've done other films together, Yeah,
I always felt very safe and wealways had each other's shoulders to cry
on. Yeah, it's always importantwhen you're up against it. So I
guess Harry Potter is actually quite aunique project to work on because most films

(09:56):
are standing well not most films,but a lot of films are stand alone,
or even if there are sequels,you at least have a bit of
a break, whereas Harry Potter thatjust wasn't an option because of the aging
of the children. You just hadto go through keep going through them,
exactly. And there was this thingthat because Chris did the first two,
didn't he So it was this thing. There were two were i mean effectively

(10:16):
one two, three four with David, so there was sort of four drecs
and seven films, and so ina way, and teams change. I
mean, there were core people likeStuart and Yanny and all you know those
people, m h. But alot of us, you know, were
changing, as it were. Ihanded over to Mark Day and so on.

(10:41):
So but there was that was rathernice actually, you know, to
have that sort of support. AlthoughI never saw Peter as it happened.
I think he was living in America, so I never left with him at
the end of their excuse me.But yeah, there was a big,
a big family, I see.So can we talk a little bit about

(11:01):
your process then that I think Iread before that you really like to study
the screenplay before you start editing.Everyone does, so could you just talk
a little bit through that process foryou? Yeah, very much so again
because I'd sort of learned so muchfrom the people that I my generation,

(11:22):
if you like Mike who are fivesix seven years older than me, Stephen
Frears, Trrigan and people like that. I'd learned so much from them when
I was younger and absorbed their approach, and so I started to apply.
And this is not shared by othercolleague friends of mine in the editorial business,

(11:43):
that the studying of the screenplays asearly as possible and the development of
them is a process which I loveto be involved in and understand. Even
though well, I was involved inmany conversations about the development because of course,
what you're dealing with is editing onpaper rather than on what we do
with movies, So they're completely oneprocess and the process of writing, like

(12:07):
with Steve Clothes, and that processconnects to what we do in this case
over a year and a half,you know, yeah, longer, so
probably two years if you think aboutthe draft we started with them. One
we had when we started, andI've got, you know, a memory
that the colored pages were like itwas like the like the rainbow. Yeah,

(12:31):
yeah, because they changed the colorof the page, and the change
is made if you don't know.Yeah. So I would study those developments.
And in fact, one of themajor changes that Mike and I made
to the film three quarters of theway through shooting, because it was a
year, it was fifty three weeksshooting, which is incredibleman, was a

(12:52):
writing issue which when we put thefilm together incomplete as it was at that
time, after nine months or ayear, he and I looked at the
film on our own and we bothcame up with ideas for how we should
finish it, which affected the writingthereafter, which I can explain, which
was very interesting and exciting. Thatprocess is all one to me to study

(13:16):
the pages to understand exactly what theintentions are of the writing. I didn't
dig too deep into Joe's book.I didn't really. I wanted to think
of this as a as its ownentity, and Steve's worked to be if
you like it, because we're makinga movie. And my understanding was that

(13:37):
I never met Joe, but myunderstanding was that she was very supportive of
that sort of parallel line, youknow that there's the book here does its
job in a certain way. We'remaking a movie. But of course,
by the time we finished and westarted to preview the film or I was
very concerned about our one in thesense that it was pretty dark. You

(14:03):
had sort of story issues to dowith the loss of Cedric, a grieving
father. You know, it's prettydark stuff, absolutely, and thinking when
we took it to in the audiencefor the first time, and again an
experience I shall never forget, wasthinking, oh my god, are we
going to get away with this?Because this is pretty heavy, It's quite

(14:24):
long, and so on. Andone of my lasting memories was d'Artagnan,
you know, because I got toknow Tanya very well and we're on the
plane going to this first preview withour early draft of the movie to show
it for the first time and forthe Warners people to meet us in Chicago
again. Coincidentally, this is extraordinarythat that day we flew was seven to

(14:48):
seven, the day that the bombswent off. That was the whole day
I should I thought, this isreally weird, these big events, you
know. We did get there andwe screened. We screened number four and
on the plane I was with Taniasaying, Tanya, they're going to kill
us this audience. It's too long, it's too dark, you know.
He said something which was so helpfulput my mind at rest that day.

(15:11):
She said, they love the audience, you know, kids and up love
the world. They will stay inthat world as long as we keep them
there. She was absolutely right.They played like dream, you know.
And I was expected to be takento the cleaners and sent home to sort
it all out. But they said, no, love it, carry on
that. You know, by Imean, I was completely amazed, because

(15:31):
you know, had there was ascreening and the audience was going mental and
we sit in the in the previewsand there was I remember it so well
because there was one we sat nearthe back Mike and I, you know,
and we're thinking, God, we'regoing to get away with this.
The market research guy came out thefront and the audience didn't know. It

(15:52):
was kids in the afternoon with theirparents, and then in the evening it
was just out out I think twoscreening side by side, and yeah,
it was Chicago, and the marketre search came out and he said,
you are the first audience to seeand you didn't say the word, Harry,
but the kid in front of mejust with yes. And then they

(16:14):
watched you know, what was ourearly draft of the film without all the
visual effects in place, quite andyou know, pretty creaky in a technical
sense, and they were so Iknow it's a noisy film or that the
beginning was noisy, you know,but it was a sort of tension in
the air which I've never experienced again. I went through this then stute panic
thingking, you know, this isnot going how we wanted to go.

(16:36):
It's like the silence in the audience, absolute attention. And then I looked
round behind me, at the threerows behind me or whatever it was,
because we always sit at the backso we can run to the door of
things, and I realized that thisaudience was completely dare I say, spellbound
in a way which I've never experienced, And I thought, oh, I

(17:00):
guess this is okay. Then Ithink we I think we're selling this movie.
And as I say, everybody wasextremely happy. I was expecting over
dinner, you know, to betaken to the cleaners. No, I
have another drink, go home,finish it great. Tania bless Her was
the one that reassured and she wasabsolutely right that there was that quotion where
you normally you're having to sell piecesof information as an editor to the audience

(17:23):
to involve them in the in thebuilding of a story. In this case,
they're already no a lot more thanyou know, a lot of the
background stuff. Yeah, well thewhole thing is done, which again meant
that you could fast track to theinner working of the story and move that
forward without having to actually kick everybox that you would do for a first

(17:45):
time movie. So it's a veryinteresting editorial issue that yes, sequel,
and I am not one I knewat all, you know, I was
as green as they can. Yeah, And actually it's so interesting because you
just you mentioned Cedric's death, whichobviously is I mean the bit where the
father's like my boy. That instantlymakes like tears spring to my eyes when

(18:07):
I watch it. But actually that'ssuch a pivotal point in the Harry Potter
storyline because that is when there's nodoubt that Boldemort is back. Yeah,
and a level of it. Yeah, exactly, so it must be.
Do you feel I don't know,is there a sort of a pressure when
it comes to editing those points toget those right because they're such like big
even though I guess that scenes notthe longest scene when he comes he obviously

(18:30):
operates back and they find out he'sdead and that, but that is such
a big part of the story.Yeah, I think in the case of
that, what I admired about whatSteve, you know, in using those
story beats and Mike had constructed inthe shooting was we are going to embrace
this, We're not shying away fromit. This is going to be tough,

(18:52):
and the audience is going to gothrough that. You know, we're
going to put them through this.It's not going to be fun. And
Robert by that time was already sortof emerging movies, So killing off a
movie star, I know, notquite what it is now. But you
know, you've got to know whatyou're doing with that, because you're you're
killing a screen presence and a heartthrob, you know, even then,

(19:17):
back then, as he was asa young man. And so the question
then editorially is getting that emotional weightbut without rubbing the audience's nose in it.
And I remembered that Mike and Ispent quite a lot of time deciding
how, I mean, just thesound of I forgot his name, Jeff,

(19:40):
Jeff Roll, I knew Jeff,and and just the whole thing of
of how much you indulged at becausea little goes a very long way,
you know, a little of thatthe audience gets the grief. You don't
have to rub their notes. Sowe've scaled it right back, and I
think it worked well in the end. Those are sort of issue we can
only assess when you're watching it withfive hundred people. Oh God, okay,

(20:04):
we've over done this. Oh no, we need to rate it back
a bit. So Mike and Idid a lot of adjustments after Chicago.
But in principle, that first jumpis are they going to buy the movie?
And in this case, the legacyof what it's got worked fine.
So you know, you never younever stopped working on them. I was

(20:25):
waking up, you know, rightduring the dumb thing. Oh, let's
change that. Have we got itright? Did you edit a movie forever?
Do you think do you think youcould just absolutely especially one like that?
Because remember that each of the imagesthat Mike had constructed, and the
teens, Peter and everybody, RogerStewart has got multiple levels of imagery,

(20:48):
you know, twenty or thirty layersof elements, not just the one.
So normally editing a two dimensional image, if you like, but in this
case you're dealing with twenty elements.How much smoke? How much that does
Harry's broom catch fire? You know, all this stuffs many, many,
many things. So when you firstread the script and sort of got to

(21:11):
grip fis what the story was?What was the thing that excited you most?
Well, I realized that this particularportion of the of the story had
what I called dramatic tent poles,which is the challenges. So in New
Life, that's a wonderful construction.And if you look at you know,

(21:32):
editorial storyteller's the construction and the quantitiesof these story beats that we really react
to how the story is told.That's why you can see great actors looking
not so great in movies and lookingabsolutely amazing and others because the way the
story is told. And that's keptme interested in this job over fifty years,

(21:52):
you know, and I never stoppedgetting a kick out of it.
So in the case of Goblet ofFire, I thought, oh, we've
got this fantastic thing of the threechallenges as goals, you know, and
that's a perfect shape. Plus we'vegot an arrival. The schools arrived.
It's a beginning. It's a stunt, you know, So I feel comfortable

(22:15):
with that. And interestingly, thechange that Mike and I made when we
saw the film was that, asoriginally scripted, the ending didn't involve the
departure of the school a beginning,and the beginning was slightly different. When
Mike and I saw it, Isaid, Mike, we've got we've got
to do something about I think I'vegot an idea about how we should do

(22:36):
the ending, and he said,I think I've got an idea about how
we should do the beginning. That'swhen we decided and that we needed all
of the resolution of the story tobe framed within the departure of the schools.
Yeah, wasn't like that. Theywere on a hillside somewhere, and
it was we shot. I thinkwe shot an ending and then changed it.
So and Mike had a notion aboutchanges at the front, and we

(22:57):
sold those to Stephen Day and said, look, we think we've still got
you know, we've still got shootingtime to do these things, but can
we look at them again from awriting point of view? And they were
enormously accommodating of us. And that'sthat's the way we went. So we
made major changes, but that wasonly after Mike and I had seen the
construction. I'd made it after ninemonths. Oh wow, so that's the

(23:22):
part where yes, so all thefoot so like the ship goes back down
into the lake. It's Jimmy,Yeah, yeah, I said, we've
got to have an end. You'vegot to have something that ends but doesn't
end, goes on. But soyou resolve, you resolve that the kids,
as I am forgive the patronizing term, we resolved them. And this
particular bubble is now complete. Theschool's left challenges are over. So there

(23:47):
was a very strong sense of narrativethanks to all the work that everybody did,
and you know you've got the thing. You've got lovely story, beats
of Dan and Rupert falling out,or the o those things that we had,
the ball. We had all thesethings and they were like very big

(24:07):
set pieces, if you like.And the question then editorial was to make
sure that we push the audience througheach of these because there's always a worry
in the back of your mind.If you're in the job that I do,
Okay, you know there are thesechallenges. Is he going to fail?
No, the audience knows in theirheart not if he is or isn't.

(24:30):
The issue is how you're making astory about, not if, but
how and so and the repercussions ofthat because movies, the way that movies
succeed is planting in the audience questionsthat they care desperately to know the answer
to because they like or dislike thecharacters on the screen. In this case,

(24:55):
they adore the characters. And sothe question then is of how you
navigate the information they need to careabout the outcome of the story that's going
to happen. It sounds obvious,but believe you me, when it goes
wrong, it goes very very wrong. So in this case it was very
clear that you know, it's notis Harry going to ultimately succeed? Yes,

(25:18):
we know who did he? Ye? Is how does he do it?
So? Yeah, we just setup the story where the mechanisms intrigue
you as to what problems are.So you know, going underwater, all
that stuff we did that was amazing, all the swimming pool stuff and underwater
crazy crazy, all of that isit is really about how do we achieve

(25:41):
the success and then just to bringup those few points actually like the You'll
Ball, like Harry and Ron fallingout, and there's at things. Obviously
we again Cedric's death, but actuallythe tone of the fourth film is more
adult just in that or like noteven adult, but they're not children anymore.
That's quite like going into tea,isn't it? Like falling out with
your friends, going to the ball, sort of dating that sort of comes

(26:03):
into it, you know, Harry'ssort of flirtations. Yeah, like those
sort of adult themes are sort ofagain, I guess the fourth ones maybe
the first time that's sort of seepinginto the the story maybe, And I
think also you know, to acknowledgeMike's huge command of the whole thing is
the character. So you'll find thatcharacter interests if presented correctly, exactly those

(26:33):
underlying things if you set them upcorrectly, as much as dragons flying across
the screen. Action the events likethat, and they work in harmony.
There's a big misnomer in filmmaking,which is, oh that these are separate
things action and non action or character. To me, they are one because

(26:53):
they overlap. You know, someof them just more physical scenes like Harry's
flying over Hogwarts or whatever does becomephysical. Will he get away from the
dragon? I always felt a bitsorry for the dragon when he got swiped
at the end. Yeah. Yeah, so but you can only do those

(27:17):
they will only really sit well ifwe understand the character issues involved. Yeah,
in this case, you know,Ron's been nasty to him or they've
been standoffish, uh, and thatand they and you realize that that's going
to resolve, that they will comeback together and stuff with Hermione and you

(27:37):
know they're not not asking her andyou know all these Yeah, that's good
writing. That's good writing and inthis case, amazing directing and playing by
all you know, everybody involved absolutelyso then what was the biggest challenge when
you first received the scriptors saw whatwas going to be to have to edit?

(28:00):
Well, I think as you've probablybeen know the visual effects films,
with visual effects to that quantity,it's a huge editorial thing. It may
have changed, it has changed abit in these twenty years. God yeah,
yeah, yeah. But basically theprocess from an editorial point view is

(28:22):
is is shooting basic layers which haveadditional information added. So if you like,
let's use the dragon arena, yeah, whole thing, just that bit
in the in our set. You'vegot to play that with all with Dan

(28:42):
in this case, and the doublesand all the rest of it, and
makes it before you see any dragon, what is it going to look like?
You know, how long is theshot? How where? Where are
you going to plan that? Wehave to commit those pieces, those less
of visual material very early on becauseit's very expensive to add in frame by

(29:04):
frame all these additional visual elements.So that used to keep me awake at
night. And thanks to Jimmy andMike and everybody, Peter, everybody you
know, saying you know, let'slet's leave that a little bit looser there,
or you know, this could bea bit tight. And there's a
tendency which you have to resist,which is that when you haven't got that

(29:27):
element in but you're imagining it's justa whole, do you tend to underestimate
what its visual value and its poweris going to be. And I do
remember sequences when I saw them ninemonths later with those elements added, thinking,
oh my god, I've got thisall wrong. You know, I
wouldn't stay longer. I would dothis slightly differency to have to kind of

(29:48):
and you can't really change it.Although David bless him, David Hayman very
you know, put my mind atrest, also saying if you feel shots
that we have developed hold up thestory or slow it down, take them
out right, Yeah, don't feelyou know, we spent thousands of dollars
on this, but the film hasto work. You do your thing,

(30:11):
follow your instinct. Anything that youcan specifically remember that you took out,
which is like a sick you know, because it might be no fault of
the scene, you know, itmight be a beautiful scene, but just
for the storytelling element, and obviouslythe film can't be five hours long,
you had to take out. Yeah, I mean, there was one I
found very difficult to still feel guiltyabout. But Javis Cockers and the Ball

(30:37):
was beautifully done and they were great, and I you know, faithfully represented
that performance, that musical performance.And then when we saw the film as
the whole, I thought, we'renot here to watch that concert, We're
here to carry on the story.Yeah, so we reduced it and I'm
sure Javis must have been, youknow, displeased, but it was better

(31:00):
for the over for Yeah. Unfortunately, it's part of the area of our
job where I think it's got togo, you know, it's got to
come down. It's not it's notthe film, You're not The performance isn't
what we're there to watch. It'sa performance within the narrative going forward.
So that was difficult. That's whenI do remember. I mean, we
did shoot and reshoot bits and pieces. You know, there were, as

(31:22):
I say, the ending, wehad a version of it where and in
fact it was the the sequence wherethe dragon fight was originally planned to be
in a forest in Scotland and thedragons above the forest, and we shot
Peter had shot stuff I think beforeI enjoined, and slowly it became we
felt this is going to be toorestricting. And because we had the model

(31:47):
of Hogwarts, I think either Jimmyand Mike or Mike and Jimmy together said
let's see if we can plan somethingwhich takes place over the model for lots
of reover in the area, whichwas brilliant because it meant that jim and
I could offer ways of showing Mikewhat we might do. We've got a
little camera over the model. Jimmyplanned all of that, and Mike came

(32:12):
up some brilliant ideas as well ofhow to weave the event at the bar
up, so that that was allgreat. That was a sort of change
an amendment which which I'm pretty surethat Jimmy came up and said, let's
think about it differently, and Mikesaid, why don't we think about that
the model, and that ended upbeing such an epics scene actually, I
think, you know even more becauseit's over Holgwarts as well. And what

(32:36):
I can't stress enough is Jimmy wouldsay, well, look we can have
his claws and the tiles will befalling, you know, off the off
the roof, and said, great, but you don't feel it. It's
it's theory you know, and it'snot too much later you think, oh,
okay, now I understand how thisis working. A very interesting sequence,
which I found very difficult was themaze. I was going to say,

(33:00):
editing a maze must be statifical.It's funny because geography, you think,
oh, editorially, I don't reallycare about the geographic. But in
this case, it was a storyof geography. And I struggled with it.
And actually my friend Graham had alreadystarted piecing together bits of temporary music.

(33:21):
This is quite late in the shooting, I think, and Graham came
to me and said, look,why don't I put a I normally don't
do it this way, but hesaid, I'm a bit of you know,
score from the other films onto thesequences. You've got it, and
maybe that will help you understand it. And he did, and immediately I
saw it. I thought, oh, I know what to do now.
And I managed to figure it outand then we changed it and shaped it.

(33:43):
But it was very difficult. Andalso you've got the difficulty of you
know, so Cedric's got you know, twigs around his leg and pulls him
over, but you've got a manin a blue suit with a rope.
You know, I guess those bitsyou really have to use. I guess
your imagination. Well, the thingis, do you I can't put it
across. But you realize that theprocess of choosing material and deciding what how

(34:07):
you see things from the order itgoes in to offer, you know,
this case to mind, say youwould let me do what I like,
and then I'd offer it and we'ddiscuss it and see how we can capitalize
on it further and further, andwith David and what with everybody, you
know, every week we'd have thesemeetings, which was great. How we
can keep moving it forward. Butyou can imagine something there, but you

(34:28):
don't feel it, And so muchof what we do is I want the
audience to feel that. So infact, in that respect, dealing with
something like Cedric depth was easier becauseyou're feeling this grief. You know,
it's a tangible thing that the actorsare giving you the in the shape of
the story. So many ways,that's an easier thing than having something you
cannot yet see, like spies.As ever, they've just got a tennis

(34:50):
ball and a stick, you know, So that's very hard to edit.
Thanks to the generosity of the others. I had a great deal of involvement
in you know, the second unitsequences with Peter mac showing sequences, so
we could put things in, allthe underwater stuff. They had a direct
link from my cutting room, soI could see exactly what they were shooting,

(35:13):
and they would invite me. Iwas constantly running back and some forwards
between the stage and the cutting room. And is that then unusual on a
film project to be sort of havingthat presence for you, like on the
set and seeing those things as wellas in the cutting room or is that
how it always? Well, we'realways close by. I mean I always

(35:34):
find it quite challenging because the twoworlds are very different. In this case,
it was absolutely necessary. Yeah,I'm more conventional, if I may
use that word film. Probably thedistance you have as enter is actually beneficial
not to know what the difficulties arein this case because of the way you
had a mania with a huge numberof people. You had Peter Mack and

(35:57):
the second unit, then you hadmodel units than you had art department,
I mean, so many things thatall Yeah, through the cutting room,
it became clear that I was goingto have to and my team you know,
coordinate between these factors and I lovedoing it, but you do you
know your eyeballs are rolling around inyour head. I bet that is a

(36:22):
lot to juggle when you watch theyou know, not to be negative,
but when you watch the final film, is there anything that you thought or
like, Now you've had a bitof time away and you've seen the film
again, you think maybe I'll dothat differently. I can't think of specific
things because I was proud of thefilm even by the time, you know,
we were dubbing it and again,you know, we had the wonderful

(36:45):
Randy tom sound designer and yeah,Patrick Doyle. I mean by the time
we got to Dad, it reallybecame enormous, exciting and interesting and fun
to do. And watching other people'scontributions when you're sort of lying in a
heap at the end, Yeah,yeah, I think if there are things

(37:07):
to do with visual effects where youthink I didn't get that quite right because
I didn't know it would look likethat. But to be honest with it,
I think I've felt that about allthe movie. It takes you years
and years to see them as anoutsider would be if you're involved in every
Yeah, I bet that is sohard to work. Oh my goodness,

(37:28):
I didn't even think about that.It must be so hardy to watch films,
films that you've worked on and notbe like taking back to the behind
the scenes element of it to you. Usually, to be honest in my
experience, they're usually things that youhave had no concept of at the time,
like a story beat that goes oneway and you think, why did

(37:51):
we do that, why it needsto go that way, you know,
or we're following the wrong character,or the accenting isn't right, and those
things have usually born into the DNAare the writing script at that stage,
and you haven't had time to addressit. But I'm always very pleased that

(38:12):
the community that we had through Davidand Mike and everybody, allowed us all
to speak very freely, talk aboutthings we were worried about, examine ideas
that we thought we could improve on. Stuart, for example, was ninety
of all the visual effects development meetings, literally down to how to say the

(38:35):
Mermaids looked, yeah, of whichthere were endous discussions about cleavage, you
know, how much cleavage that wasquite funny, how androgynous they should look,
and so there was all fascinating stuff, but that sort of and I
would go to them for editorial helpas well. Stuart, you know,

(38:58):
what do you think is this toolong? You know what, are we
telling the story so it doesn't matterwhich department and we're making a movie and
everybody represents things, and we allwould share our concerns. Yeah, And
then is there anything that in yourmind? I mean, you've spoken about
this a little bit, and Iguess you're talking about again Cedric's death,
and I don't like go on bythat point, But was there anything that

(39:21):
you thought, Oh, gosh,I've done this and I just don't know
if it's going to work. Andthen when you've watched it back, you
thought, actually that's perfect. Racesknows God, just couldn't see how it
would look. And again you're cuttingwith there's rape, with black spots drawn
into the reference and all that,and I remember thinking, of course he's

(39:43):
a wonderful actor. Ye love aguy that's that bad. We always love
characters are that bad, because yeah, we are them in some way.
So and again I couldn't quite quantifythe impact that he would have when he's
not there, So that when youlook at a tunbes. How much do
we know what we're feeling about that? The threat of him? Yeah,

(40:08):
and so that's a storytelling ingredient whichyou've got to make them. You see
little glimpses of them in the beginningof four, you know, through the
door, and there's stuff that transformationin the baby and that's all again,
those sequences I could never tell untilJimmy had done all the you know,

(40:30):
and all the vision of it.How well is that going to play?
I don't know. Again, thisis sort of normally my last question,
but do you have like a fondestmemory of what I got to know Dan
and his parents, And we hada lot of fun with Dan, sticking
Dan's head in a sort of bowlin order to record underwater dialogue. And

(40:57):
there was an overlap here is thatDan had two little border Terrier dogs,
Binker and Nugget they were called,and we also at that time had a
little border terrier. My wife isa seramesist, made these dog bowls for
Dan for these two border terriers,and I remember him being absolutely thrilled to

(41:19):
bits with that. I do rememberus and he was so willing to help,
I mean, on anything and stickingdown Raglars in a bowl of water
and having talk and it was oneof my funniest things. What generous,
kind, lovely people, you know, yeah, all of them, all
of the yeah them, you know. So that's one of my fond fondest

(41:42):
memories. Yeah, yeah, justto be come from that, I think,
like I've said this before, thatyou know, Harry Potter is such
a loved character in the world andthere couldn't be anyone nicer than Dan to
be that person because he was solovely and you know exactly, you know,
if you see him ever on TVor being interviewed, how he is

(42:05):
is actually how he is. Thelasting memories was that Marika, my eldest
daughter, was normal for us tohave our names on a door to say
who was who was working? Well, I said, She came up on
a visit and said, would youwould you do I'll do a little sign
for your door, and I'm goingto do your name popping out of the

(42:25):
goblet as in the film. Whenwe came to do the titles, I
said, that's what we should do, because Marika's drawing, we should have
we should have the names come outof the goblet for the for the credits,
and that's how that idea started becauseMarika had done this little drawing of
the goblet with my name coming out. So that's brilliant the editors. So

(42:47):
I guess it's Marika should my elderdaughter, you should have the credit for
that. But I remember when wewere talking about looking at and saying,
the answer is staring at me inthe face. Well, I knew it
would work. I knew yeah,So I solved that. So I hope
you enjoyed the Flicker mix show andthis episode of Behind the Bond. I

(43:12):
think you can tell just from listeninghow great Mick is and how fantastic of
an editor he is, and howinteresting his Harry Potter experience was. So
I really hope you enjoyed that.So I think I said this at the
end of Nick Cooper's episode, butthe episodes are going to be coming a
little bit more sporadically now, justdue to the fact that sorry to keep
going on about it, but Ihad a baby, so I'm in that

(43:35):
newborn world even though she is eightweeks now. So is that still newborn?
I'm hoping you're all agreeing yes,but I'm definitely trying to book in
interviews when I can and get somemore episodes to you. I also realized
I lied and said there was abonus episode going out last week and there
wasn't, but there will be thisweek, so yes, apologies all round.

(43:58):
I hope you guys still love thepodcast, and I will definitely be
on my Instagram letting you know whenthe next episode will be out so you
definitely won't miss it. But Ihope you all have a magical week.
I'll see you at the bonus episodeand hopefully see you all, or you'll
hear me all. You'll hear me, you'll hear me soon, I don't

(44:22):
know. Have a great week,everybody,