Serial Killer Todd Kohlhepp Full Length Police Interrogation

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Father had six brothers and a sister, but as far as he was an
only child, My mom's family. She's got.
A big family had a real close cousin and in the beginning of
the year someone gave her some drugs that they shouldn't have
and she had some heart conditionand she went to sleep and they

(00:26):
were low financial means and shewent to sleep.
With her daughter. The bed and passed in her sleep
and her daughter woke up and found her and that's something
her daughter's going to live with with for the rest rest of
her life. And you know, so I mean, I the
drug dealer, the drug thing, it just, you know.

(00:46):
It it digs in and yell out, yeah, I've seen too many people
go down that path. I don't like the junkies, but I
can understand the junkies, the dealer, the dealer's only there
for one thing. The that that's the problem that
I have. I would have been OK if you guys

(01:08):
would, just like I would never have pulled a wet on you guys.
And the force she does to shoot me isn't cool either, because
you got to live with that. I have a good friend that works
here that still lives with that today.
You will second guess yourself constantly.
Well, he he did because he foundout the gun was uploaded, but he

(01:31):
had no way of knowing. And for me to take myself, it's
not hard. I mean, you slam and throw it on
a on a vest somewhere and crush the lyrics.
You don't die of shitty death, but you can do it.
But you hurt the people. If I did any of that, and I
won't, it would probably 'cause my mother to have a heart attack

(01:55):
and die. Let's not do that.
Let me go back to what you said,though.
What do you want? You, you said, you said you.
You go ahead, Go ahead. The absurdity of that is that if

(02:15):
you if you did, but you can't, but if you did, where am I now?
Right now around here, you're probably the most recognizable
person. I mean, I think it's me when you
put my face on some billboards. They're like, hey, no, my face
higher up, we need more businessor inside can I?

(02:39):
Have another people ask me about.
Can you hook me up with Rose? I'll show you how to turn.
We turn that bottom bed into a top bed real quick.
Oh hell, we'll go get right on that.
Which part do you want to be in Sir?
You want a three bed or A2? They're just looking.
At oh, oh, the the guards, I'm on top of the guards and and one
inmate who just was like, I I heard about you.

(03:00):
I'm like, OK, you're the real estate guy was until about 20
minutes ago. I went to my license.
What but real nice guy, but the I've just been out.
Just I'm going to let them know what the hell they feed them
boys with with saw or they put like they put like steroids in

(03:24):
the in. The.
Biggest corn fed Damn people. And as a matter of fact there.
Was a you seen it, You mentionedRussell Lynch's website earlier.
You saw on Facebook, we had an officer get in trouble for that
a year or so ago. Then he was let go.
OK, I. Wouldn't want to be unserious.
But yeah, we did. So they test them for that.

(03:45):
They they work out, they have towork.
I mean, they go through PT like our SWAT guys.
Yeah, they go through PT like crazy and they lift weights and
they have to go through PT like crazy.
Oh, I'm, I'm impressed. I'm not bad.
I was like, they're all tall as hell.
Oh, I. Know I'm like that's the one.
Thing I wish I had was like, like my, my 15 year old.

(04:06):
He's already taller than me. I'm 59 and the happiest 511.
I'm like really dude? He he looked at me.
I'm like, listen here little man.
Really. He goes, he goes, he'll call me.
He goes Boo, Boo. I said listen here.

(04:29):
Boo. Boo.
And finally, because he knows he's from kids, he's got a old
soul, but he knows the difference between joking around
bad. And.
Even if I'm used to that, just that changing the tone, it's a
serious dad, you know? And once that tone changes, you

(04:53):
know he knows. You know I'm stopped.
Yeah. And he knows that, you know.
That dad will straighten him out, but dad will also.
It's like the biggest dragon. See, my dad never would do that,

(05:15):
really. My dad was the dragon.
Really. My dad took me to office parks
while he would steal half the shake his hands on and they want
me to help him load truck and deal with his nonsense and then
would tell me that if I got intoa fight if I didn't win.
You're not my son. Don't come home.

(05:37):
But then if I get into a fight Iwant the kids ass.
I went too far. I'm getting my ass because I
went too far. Do I go win?
My son got in trouble while backfor helping defend a kid on the
bus one time. Little bitty got hit the same
age with this. Like I said, my son's real tall
and it's kind of cute. The they have for some reason, I

(05:59):
don't know why they do it. They have the, they have the
6th, 7th, 8th and 9th graders from different schools all
riding on the same bus. And he's back there and he's got
his headphones on and. Some of the older.
Kids are messing with him and the other little guy.
And like I said, he's, he's short, he's a little guy.
Looks like he belonged in like the 5th grade or something.

(06:20):
He's so little and these older kids are picking on bullying.
And my son's sitting there and he looks over.
He says now just leave him alone.
Just just leave him alone, dude.And my son got into got attacked
by our family dog who was a bulldog, a bullmastiff mix and

(06:44):
it was an accident. My wife would give him deservers
little pop on the cheek and he didn't like it.
And he? Would feel like this and snap
and he. My son was home sick one day and
he thought he was going to do itso he jumped up on the bed.
Excuse me? The dog thought he was going to
do it. The dog turned like that and
when he did he caught him right here with the Fang and ripped

(07:07):
his whole lip off. Oh jeez.
So they have it stitched on. So my son's claim to fame is if
I can take on a Pitbull and whim, what do you think I'm
going to do to you? So here the guy, the kid.
He said just just leave. Me alone man, just leave me
alone. The kid goes leans up across
there and he goes, how about I make you my and he goes,
everybody goes, you better leavehim alone.
His dad's a cop and he goes. The guy goes I don't care if his

(07:30):
dad's a cop and he leans across there he goes, how about I just
make you my little bitch, my sonwind up to him.
He says how about you sit back down before you get your ass
kicked? In front of everybody.
Here. He just looked at him like that.
He's like, and I taught my son at that point in a situation,

(07:51):
don't say anything else because the next person that speaks
loses. You lose all credibility.
If you talk. They teach you that in sales,
you're at that closing point, don't talk.
That's action time. You know, at that point, if that
kid makes a move, you're in fearfor your safety.
You have the right to defend yourself.

(08:13):
He ended up getting put off the bus.
So I go down to the school. We had a word of prayer with the
principal and he was back on thebus.
You know, I said. He's, he's defending, you know,
a smaller kid that's being bullied.
He doesn't, you know? That's what he's supposed to do,

(08:36):
you know? You, you protect the weak, you
know? I want to.
Ask. You.
To answer your questions. Want.
To be the mom. The mom say again, what do you
mean? The bike shop Because the mom.

(09:01):
Well. Again, what do you want to have
to happen? I don't know.
Because you made this comment tome and sorry to interrupt, but
you made this comment to me and I believe you.
You didn't do right and I believe you and I talked to the
solicitor about that and and I told him what you told me he
said. I said he's, he's made the
comment and the solicitor, he'llplead to everything, but he's

(09:24):
not pleading the rape because hedidn't do it right.
I said. He told me that he's admitted to
everything he's done. He's willing to take the
responsibility for it, but he will not take responsibility as
to the kidnapping, I said, but he will not take responsibility
for the rape because he did not rape her that sometime they had

(09:44):
sex. It was consensual.
She had the choice and she actually initiated it at times.
And he said, OK, I said, so we're going to need to
reinterview her and we're setting that up.
We're going to do that this week.
And I told him, I said I, I gavehim my word that we would
reinterviewed him. And I want or we want to

(10:06):
reinterview her, you know, because, yeah, I think it needs
to be done. And so I can't guarantee where
that's going to go, but I don't see it, you know?
But let's, let's ask you this. I got one.
One thing I do like to ask you before I go further, the FBI

(10:29):
has. Requested.
To talk to you, I don't know if it's about the guns.
It's it's got, it's got to be about the guns because that's
the only issue they would have. If at some point they want to
come talk to you, would you mind?
Talking to them. Oh my.
OK, I'll let them know. The other thing is could.
I get to ride in. Their their cop.

(10:53):
Car and put lights on probably I'm arranging I can arrange a
sheriff pick up your mom and bring her over here.
You know, and he and he, he's just go ahead.
If it's FBI, don't think they'regoing to be interested in the
guns. They're not going to like the
answer. Again, it's not going to be
that. I was expecting ATF.

(11:17):
I'm expecting Homeland Security.They were out there, you know
that. Yeah, they were out there.
Not today we were out there. The first day.
Cuz they AM. When they found all that day,
yeah. Not terrorists.
I would never do anything against the interests of the
United States. I love my country.

(11:39):
I like what we do a lot of times.
I. Love my country.
They can ask all they want. You will not find racial
material on my stuff. I refer to with my friend called
my Arian. He's a black guy.
I don't do the white pride powercrap.

(12:01):
No, they're going to ask about the weapons because they're so
extreme. I just had expensive taste and I
like quality and I actually knowhow to operate every single one
of them, but they're not going to get the spectacular stories
they want. With that being said, they're
apparently I did not know this. I knew that the guy had came and

(12:25):
revoked your broken glasses. Apparently an attorney came to
see you. Who?
Who is he? I've got his card.
He basically with the intern part.
Well, which let me get back up. There's the there's 22
attorneys. Can we see you?
There was the attorney who actually showed up to give me my
letter telling me you're no longer a realtor.

(12:46):
He's out. Then there was an attorney that
showed up from the Columbia for.Shane something, yes.
OK, Columbia for what? He they well.
First they tried to give me a public offender, but I make too
much money. OK.
Even though almost everything I've got is not liquid right
and. You actually own property in

(13:08):
Spartanburg County, so you don'tqualify the.
Thing is, except for a couple ofthings, I don't see a need to
buy an attorney. Dude, I just gave you 77 bodies.
Well, see, that's the thing I'm getting at.
He's shown up back at the jail again today wanting while we've
been here wanting to talk to youand but he talked to my

(13:31):
Lieutenant and didn't know if you wanted to talk to him.
Sure, he. Gave him.
Light. Do you want to talk to him after
we do this or after you? After, I mean, I'm not sorry,
after you come see me tomorrow or do you want to talk to him
beforehand? It's up to you.
I mean, it's whichever you want to do.

(13:51):
I don't. Care, I mean.
I'm going to I'm. Going to use them to where they
go to the preliminary stuff. The only the only problem I have
with any of this is I'm not going to set Kayla's break.
That's not going to that's I'll fight all the way.
We'll we'll go jury. I won't win, but I'll make it

(14:11):
extremely extremely costly. Why?
I think once you reinterview her, I think you know you now
that you've got her own letters and all that, I think you'll be
OK. Go through the go through the
bag, go through the stuff that was in, go through the stuff

(14:33):
that was in the Conex. In her area.
And. Upstairs there's a dresser
drawer, is there not one of the Somebody said they found them
stuff in a dresser. Drawer, yes, Sir.
There there's multiples. There is a different laundry
Connell. So I think it's been one for her
differently. The two bottom drawers.

(15:00):
The two bottom drawers are the white thing that has marrow on
top. Both of those are her drawers.
Both drawers underneath the TV are both are her drawers.
I'll write this down because I'll forget.
It both bottom. Drawers are the white chest
where the things called dresser.Both of those are hers.

(15:23):
With the mirror. With the mirror and both of
those that are underneath the TV, there's one side by side.
Both of those have her stuff in it.
OK. She had me get her vibrator, the
TV, the the DVD player, the MP3 player, the coloring books.

(15:43):
Coloring books. Adult coloring books.
OK. Dude I didn't question, I just
it got her to shut up and got her to roll over.
That led me to something else you said The Satanic book.
Yeah, what the hell, man? I've never let me ask you this.

(16:05):
The mattress is up against the wall and we did that looking to
see if there were any letters inthere.
It was a bag. Yeah.
Did you ever spend the night there with her in the bed?
Like stay the night. You and her in the bed.
Overnight. Never stay the night.
OK. We spent a lot of time on the
bed. She wanted the the, the, the the

(16:30):
comforter thing that was on the floor.
That was her idea. That was her submissive Kitty
bed, her kitten bed. Man enter it in all of a sudden
I put the collar thing on her. And they found me out.
They were like what they thoughtit was for a dog, you know?
Well, now the cage that was up. There, that's in pieces.
That I built and it was originally meant for my dogs.

(16:52):
No, I'm talking about the the collar, the the metal collar
thing you told me about. That I ordered off of when the
websites delivered and I got it because she won't.
She requested that as opposed tome putting the chain around and
I got that in one that would have fucked.
Me. Up man I I went that ain't going

(17:14):
on nobody. So it's never been used, but she
wanted that and then the the thekey bed and she went this whole
thing of explained to me that I had to give her permission to
speak to me give her permission to look at me.
Dude, I'll do all that control shit.
You know, I'm like. Just.

(17:37):
What's going on? I don't need all that ass an
Ashley Ashley's never had to deal with any of that crap, but
you know, but. You.
Get the point? I mean, I was embarrassed
because she actually keep friends.
She she keeps, she buys a littledamn operators and then she

(17:58):
starts from my side of the damn bed.
I was like, you know, I don't want anything on my side of the
bed. She's like, why?
Because if I ever get in trouble, I'm karma.
I wasn't thinking that shit for me.
Well, we did. Open the doors and we were open
the doors. And we were.
Like oh shit, I was like OK in the house and we're at the

(18:20):
house. I ain't never.
But yeah, we had all that. And then, yeah, it was just she,
she, she, she had all the stuff.She kept asking for this kind of
stuff. I got it and she wanted, it's a
big black book about that deep, like $23, that damn book.
And it's the enchanted sorcerer sorcery, some of the shit.

(18:49):
It's the how to guide to be a witch.
Dude. I just figured she'd read the
damn book and shut the fuck up for a while.
I. Don't understand that.
I mean, tell me about basically how she wanted to go off Dustin
because she she thinks Dustin was involved in it.
Dustin wasn't involved in it. The only Dustin's part of of

(19:09):
anything was that he was a dumb kid that I paid cash when he was
broke to go to the store and get.
When you say dumb you think he had a mental issue or just he
was just didn't. Maybe he's just an idiot young
kid. He's an idiot young kid.
He's not retarded. He's he's smart.
He's lazy. I started getting jobs for
years, started getting into realestate.

(19:29):
We didn't read the damn book. Real estate is hard.
You don't want shit in class. You went on the street.
But. You got to do the class 1st,
which falls into our early conversation.
But he's just a dumb kid who basically he he didn't even know
who his daddy is. His mom doesn't know who his
daddy is. Yeah, she's a little wild.

(19:51):
When she was young. He, he basically, I met him one
night at Barnes and Noble 15 years ago in line in terms of
how he wanted to be SWAT. He wanted pistols and forces.
I don't know the disrespect thatyou ain't got a chance in hell.
I can live in your eyes and tellyou you got none of that in you.
Accept. It find a good.

(20:12):
Career and go, go leave your life.
There's people who need to be that way and people who don't
need to be that way. The world's big.
You need both got talked to him.I got him out of a lot of
trouble 'cause he just, he neverhad any.
It was me and another guy who died.
He actually had a you may have known Cody.

(20:33):
He's sort of the manager of at Wild Wings.
He had diabetes. We didn't know he just died back
or like that. And he mashed his foot down and
he drove his car on 290 into a telephone pole and he died.
I I heard about this. I did hear about this.
Yeah. We'll skip.
We'll. Tiny guy I I heard about I.
Heard about the rat I heard about.
Being in the rat, he didn't knowanything about him, but I heard

(20:55):
about the rat. He had a telephone pole.
He had, he had a diabetic, whatever it was, insulin,
whatever. When the shot did that matched
the gas to the floorboard, he heonly drove 55.
Or diabetic seizure. I'm sorry, he only drove. 55 on
85 going anywhere with him used to drive me bat shit.
I'm like come on it's one of theGod fun pedal I would pull

(21:16):
beside the road. Wait, he tried, he tried me
batshit 'cause I mean, I'm 85 miles an hour in in school zone
and he hit, he, he went to shock, mashed to the floor, hit
a telephone pole through the windshield and hit a car.
I mean hit, hit a house. To this day, I don't know what
house. I never asked Dustin which one

(21:37):
it was, but me and Cody were theonly two that kind of got him
out of his early funk. And then he didn't know that was
illegal. And then at 1st and then I paid
him. And then after I had paid him,
he I kept his car working. He needed the money.

(21:58):
So Cody had no idea that buying you the guns was?
Cody wasn't even alive without him.
Cody was. I'm not Cody Dustin.
Dustin had no idea buying you the guns was illegal.
At first. OK.
He did later, but by the time herealized it, he'd already done
enough times that. It didn't matter.
I was like fuck. I mean, dude, there's like 10 or

(22:21):
12 suppressors in there and I don't know how many. 40 guns, 50
guns. I mean, it's kind of like
Pokémon. God, I have them all.
Yeah. And then I would take them and I
would tweak them. Sig NPX became an SBR, the PTR

(22:41):
became an SBR, the 516 became anSPR, anything that was rifle
wise even got refined and polished and upgraded to for
distance and everything short got upgraded for dependability
and fire control. Well, let me ask you this real

(23:03):
quick. So we're going to head to head
back over this attorney contacted my Lieutenant, OK.
But my Lieutenant told me to letyou know because we promised
this attorney that we would let you know.
Do you want this attorney to contact you?
Do you want to contact this attorney?
He. Can contact me?

(23:23):
He can contact you, come to the jail and see you.
Do you want to come back and seeme tomorrow first, or do you
want to talk to him? Or do you want us to give him a
time to come see you or whatever?
Whatever you want to do, whatever is convenient.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind talking to.
Him OK. It's whatever your schedules
are. I mean, I know you need to talk

(23:44):
to me. Tomorrow so I.
Mean the ball's in your court because you're the one if you
want. Me to talk to him first, make it
easy and then come see me. It's no, I mean, it's it's it's
whatever you want, OK. If you want to talk to me first
tomorrow, that's your choice. If you want to talk to him first

(24:05):
tomorrow, that's your choice. Let.
Me. Talk to him first.
I don't know what he's going to say, but I'll talk to him first
anyhow. It's not going to make any
difference. To answer your question earlier,
I don't know what I want. The fact is, it'd be nice to
just be over. With but I.
Don't want to spend my life in abox, but I don't have a choice.

(24:28):
But if I go to death row, it's going to absolutely, it's going
to kill people, it's absolutely going to crush them.
If I got to just bite the bulletand rot it out, I'll rot it out.
What else do you? Do now?
You said you have this attorney's card, right?
I do, but I'm not allowed to make any phone calls.

(24:51):
OK. So OK, we were planning on
coming and getting you tomorrow mid morning, OK, but and doing
getting all this squared away tomorrow, mid morning,
afternoon, sometime like that. So it's your choice.
Do you want to talk to him before we do, Before I come and

(25:13):
get you to talk to you? Or.
How do you want to do that? If he can get up, get up here in
the morning, that's fine. That way we got more time to
deal with this and all this stuff because I got to write
those checks and you got to get checked, folks.
What time do you want me to tellhim to come see you?
Anytime the morning work OK my my schedule is is valuable.

(25:35):
OK, so so you're telling me and I have to do this for legal
reasons. I know.
So you're telling me after you talk to him, you want me to come
get you so you can come back over here?
Yes. And talk to me.
Yes, Sir. OK.
It just gets him out of the way.He's going to tell me the same
man come in last time. What did he tell you?
I mean, you don't have to tell me, but I'm really I'm.

(25:58):
Like really, is this coming? What the hell is difference?
You can't tell me. Anything.
I mean, the fact is, I mean first they tell me the.
The the the. The what do you call it?
The they can't give me a public offender because I have too
much, too much assets. But then they tell me, but I'm

(26:19):
not such a high priority case that all of a sudden we might be
able to bypass some of this, which is legalese for I want my
name on that case somehow, somehow, because that would give
me some notoriety. Hell, I imagine somebody in
prison town would do it for freeto get the game on the case at
this point after today. Yeah, I I wouldn't be surprised.

(26:42):
Preliminary hearing their chance, their chance to stand up
and me say absolutely nothing and go through procedure.
Dude, I wrote up. I wrote out a confession.
What? What the heck are you going to
get on preliminary? Oh we'll get that charge toss
out bro. I've got like 8 more coming.

(27:06):
But but I mean, in retrospect, really the only one you're
you're issues with is the right,Yeah.
Being honest here, I gave you the four.
I couldn't shut the hell up. Yeah, yeah, it's.
And that's probably the one I'm going to fry on.

(27:27):
I'm going to believe that damn thing.
What? Suck.
You're like a sausage. Smell my meat, bitches.
That's right. Inhale.
Because my last thing is I'm inside of all of you.
You guys always laugh man. Yeah, you do.

(27:51):
I mean, you do. You got to go out your own way.
I don't know if I'm going to do the digs, digs out for Grammy or
I'm going to do the can I, he's a wife walk.
But I mean, you know, at that point, I mean, the one I'm
probably going to get nailed on is the bike shop.

(28:17):
What's his name? Carver Charlie.
Charlie's not. Sane.
They want to make him. Out to be a sane right now they
do, but Kayla's dangerous. Kayla has before asked me to
beat up people for her or use myresources, which she thinks my

(28:39):
resources are. Go get someone killed.
Really. Yeah, with people that she
doesn't like. A you have a Have you do or have
you hired somebody to do it? Yes.
Both, yes. OK.
I can't read my Facebook and maybe on there.
Really. Yes.
How long ago is this? You'll have.

(29:00):
Well I blocked her after all this shit so they wouldn't know
because I mean literally. We have her Facebook page.
Then you have it. OK.
It'll take you for every damn day to go through it.
OK, but. Go back to the messages.
Really. In her phone messages, she
supposedly had money in her car and the guy took her money, but

(29:20):
that's bullshit. And then she wanted me to either
use my resources to either have him killed or beat up.
I believe he was beat up, but she wanted me to use my
resources to have him have him off or go do it.
Kayla uses that thing between her legs to get dumb asses to go
do stupid shit, and that's what I'm trying to say, that she's

(29:44):
going to use that to get Dustin hurt.
OK, what was this attorney's name?
Do you remember? Let me, let me.
Immediately take my picture. No, no, I'm, I'm calling my
boss. Hey, what is this attorney's

(30:16):
name? Steve Gorsham, OK, he says he
has his business card. He has no way to contact him,
though he does want to talk to him.

(30:39):
Not for anything, just to help him with the pulmonary stuff.
Like he goes. OK, I got you.

(31:05):
There's another call. OK, out of Greenville.
OK, OK, well, I'll explain this to him.

(31:26):
So this guy that showed up last Friday, is it indigent defense?
Because he he did mention something to me about the guy
saying he wouldn't qualify for apublic defender because he owned
property. OK, yes, but they're not going

(31:54):
to like what he has to say and he's they're not going to, he's
not going to talk to him very much.

(32:29):
I. OK.

(33:34):
All. Right, we're fixing to transport

(34:00):
it back over. Then we got down.
Yeah, he can. He can come see him tomorrow
morning and then he told me thathe still wants me to come pick
him up tomorrow afternoon and come back over.
And talk to me. OK, Yeah.

(34:59):
All right. He's going to call the attorney.
He's an indigent. What's the point?
Well, and if you want me. To call him back and tell him.
Not to. I will.
There's also an attorney from Greenville that left his card at
the front desk of the jail for you.
He is, I don't know who he is, it's on a legal pad.

(35:21):
And he left his card for you at the jail.
But this attorney from Columbia,he is not a public defender, but
he's an indigent attorney. OK, but he.
Represents indigent people and Ithink that's why he made that
comment to you. You made a comment to me that he
said you didn't. Qualify.
For a public defender. But there's a way he's around

(35:42):
that or something. There are, but here's the point.
Why? I mean, I'll speak to him, but
here's the thing, Todd, you ain't going to talk to nobody.
You don't want to. Yeah, you know, I mean, if you
want me to. I mean, I don't mind talking to
him, but I mean I don't get him talking to you guys.
I I I mean I. But I don't get OK, I gave you

(36:04):
4, I gave you 4 bodies, I gave you 4.
I can't remake. That's done.
I understand that you kept your promise.
I kept my promise. You can't renege.
It's already been done. Understand.
I showed you where two other bodies are.

(36:26):
Didn't have to mention if I hadn't said nothing, because
what's on top of them? You guys, your dogs just ain't
on board. Even if I didn't, I still got a
kidnapping charge that ain't going nowhere.
I still got a a murderer in the back pasture that's not going

(36:47):
anywhere. And Ozzy was on 1/2 off sale.
But. The.
What half off sale? Believe me, buy 1 foot, get it
on, foot off. What am?

(37:08):
I saying. Hello again, Todd.
You don't have to talk to anybody.
I don't have to. I don't talk to you either.
But but. Yeah, OK.
If you. Want he's not sure he wants,
he's not sure he wants to talk to me.
He said if he's an engine at large, he said there's no reason
for him to talk to him. He, I mean, that's the thing.

(37:32):
If he he I think about the business card being left by the
other attorney from Gringle and he said he has no problem
talking to him and, and but he said as far as this engine that
an attorney does and he says there is no reason for him, he
said because he's not imaging. Do you want my?

(37:52):
Lieutenant to call him back and tell him.
No. Or do.
You want me to tell him you'll talk to him?
Just just have him leave his card and I'll OK, he said.
He, he, he. He this is the guy, you already
have his card. OK.
This is the guy that came to seeyou Friday.
Haven't just come to see you later, haven't come to me
afterwards. What day would you like him to
come see you? I don't care.

(38:16):
Tomorrow, late, tomorrow, Tuesday, I don't care.
I'm not going anywhere. I'll do that.
I'll do that. OK, OK, whatever.
This is what he's going to do. He's going to text me the
attorney's contact information so that you can call him.

(38:38):
I'm going to let the attorney know that I'm in here with you
and you can tell him if you wantto talk to him or when you want
to talk to him. You know what I'm saying?
So that way you know you're. Protected.
Your, your rights are protected.And if you want to see him after
you talk to me, if you want to see him down the road, whatever

(39:00):
you want to do, you know, because the thing about it is,
like you said, they're cops in alittle bit are bad.
They're cops in a little bit aregood.
I should. Not like you I.
Should want to know you to the cross, you know, but I'm.
Going there anywhere? Well.
Let's not that. But yeah, I get it.

(39:22):
I want to do the right. Thing for you, I want to make
sure the right thing is done foryou and by you.
I don't do this job just to put people in jail and do stuff like
that. I do this job because that's the
way I want to be at. The end of the day, like I said,
they have two choices. There's two choices here.
There's three. I'm not going home.

(39:43):
There's two choices. OK.
Now I'm going to let him know that I'm in here and that and
you can tell me when you want tosee him, whatever you want, you
know. Hi, Shane.

(40:11):
Hi, Shane. My name is Tom Clark.
I'm an investigator with the Spartanburg County Sheriff's
Office. Yeah, Lieutenant William Gary
gave me your information. Yeah.
What's your last name? Shane.
Gorenson, Gor. OK, G ORANSON.

(40:32):
OK, I'm sitting here with Mr. Colvett.
Yeah. You left your card with him?
Yeah, OK. And you apparently while we were
talking to him today, you came back to see him?
Yes, I came by today, Yeah. OK.
And you were wanting to talk to him again.

(40:54):
Correct. Yes, OK.
He's. Going to talk to you, right?
Now and let you know what his decision is about.
Whether or not he wants to talk to.
You or when he wants to talk to you.
OK and I'm I'm still in the room, so I just want to make
sure you need that OK, because we're in an interview room all.
Right. Speakerphone, yes.

(41:14):
Sir, he's right here. Yes, Sir, I understand.
You want to speak to me? Are you the gentleman I spoke to
the other day? Yeah.
OK, OK. You want to come see me tomorrow
or Tuesday or what? Whatever.
Whatever. Spartanburg right now.

(41:34):
Yes, Sir. But if?
We need to do it another day. We can do it another day.
I have the power of attorney form for you.
OK. Yeah, I need that.

(41:55):
And you know, Yes, Sir, I would just, I would prefer to at least
get back to you tonight. So.
You can get that. Done.
But. You know, whatever you want.
To do it's fine. I'm just telling you I'm here.
For you, I'm here to help you. And I appreciate that for my
help and I appreciate that I don't know what time it is, but
how long are you going to be there?

(42:17):
In Spartanburg. Yes, Sir.
How long on your clock, buddy? I'm here for you.
How long is this going to take? Perfection.
Leave. Yeah.
I can see you in, in, in when? When they get me back over that.
That's fine. OK.
Thank you. OK.
Thank you. See you soon.

(42:42):
I'm sorry. Now I want to let you know this.
If you sign papers with him and he becomes your attorney, OK?
OK. In any capacity, before you can
talk to me again, you have to send a letter through the kiosk

(43:02):
at the jail before you can talk to me anymore.
If he becomes your attorney on record for this, OK?
I'm just making you aware of that.
I can't just come over and get you like we we talked about.
If he becomes your attorney, he becomes your attorney on record
for this situation, then you will have to request me, OK,

(43:26):
through that they have that kiosk that you need.
You have to. They have.
Want me anywhere near it? Well, you that you tell them you
can tell them. I want to request to talk to
detective. Clark through the kiosk.
And they will let you do that ifyou hire him as or if you I.
Wasn't planning to hire him, I thought.
I'm taking my taking my piece ofpaper.

(43:48):
And you can explain that to him.That's your right.
You, you know, and that's why you know, you know, we're
recorded here and you know all that.
Other than the fact of notorietyfor them because it's not for
me. What?
Why do I? Why is everybody suddenly from
first your lady came down at theat the Holden cell and then
informed me that you got property, you can't have

(44:09):
anything. But then why are you even here?
Well, what she's a public defender and they do that for
for general sessions charges most times, a lot of times in
in, in court, OK. And it may have just been
because they found out what the charges were.
Well, that was just the kidnapping.

(44:30):
Right. That got escalated.
Yeah, so. Based the public.
Defenders off center over. OK, OK, so that's what that was.
And, and a lot of times there'llbe a public defender show up to
talk to people. As far as him, I don't know who
he is. I've never heard of him before.
He's part of another group in Columbia that deals with, once

(44:54):
again, indigent. But it is.
They may be able to weigh certain things.
Whenever you want to weigh something, there's a reason
you're not doing it, 'cause you like me, you're waving it for a
reason. I don't understand the purpose.
When he's with the plenary thing, you know we get to go
over policy. Over.

(45:17):
Like policy, procedure. I can't even speak at it.
They said the attorney can speak.
I get to stand there and look stupid for a while.
You talking about your preliminary hearing?
Yes, Sir. And they basically go over
procedures of what, you know, the officers should have done.
They should have done. At no time is it going to throw.
There's not going to be some TV,TV show of all the way.

(45:39):
Mess up your seat. We got to throw all this shit
out. The bodies don't count.
Well, this is the thing. At the end of the day, you can
do the power of returning with or without an attorney.
Yeah, I'm going to get the document get.
Get my document. You know you can, you can, you
can have him be your attorney. You cannot have him be your
attorney that that is completelyup to you.

(46:01):
Well. Right now I don't even know him,
but what I what I want is the document.
That's all I want. Well, I just I just want to make
sure that you understand that I made you a promise at the
beginning that I was always going to be honest with you yes
and I was always going to be upfront with you we're.
Fine. And so that's why I, I did that,
you know, and I told you about the other attorney that left his

(46:23):
business card. And like you said earlier, you,
I have a friend who's an attorney and, and they're like
that sometimes, you know, I, I don't know, you know, I think
you may be right. And for today, it's like I I
know a gentleman that's in Arizona.
His birth name is Jesse James. The attorney was willing to take

(46:48):
his case. Go ahead with a dumb ass, just
call his name 'cause his name. So he could.
Put it on his advertisement. I got Jesse James off and he
didn't. But it's not a.
Backfire on him, huh? But I mean, I don't get the

(47:10):
point. I mean, and OK, I get the bike
shop thing. Yes, you you people want to have
the name involved because it's anational case now.
Now all of a sudden you have a realtor who was a couple days
ago worth a shit load of money who suddenly went out and all of
a sudden you're finding bodies and bodies and bodies.
A girl who gets caught in a, in a, in a, in a conex.

(47:30):
When you all find out the real truth about that part, that's
going to be interesting. About.
Kayla, Kayla. Yeah.
Yeah. I think, I think you're going to
find the the you're going to find some different things
there. It's just the, the well, biggest
thing right now is I want, you know, him and I are both of the
same line and as the sheriff are, you know, and as the

(47:53):
sheriff told you when he prayed with you, we do everything above
board. We have a saying we do it the
right way. And so that's why I wanted to
make that clear. I did too.
He said get a gun. Shit, did you just move right
into that? Wait a minute, wait a minute.

(48:15):
He. Told me it's just fault.
It's just fault. Oh, and I do know why the FBI
wants to talk to you. Yes, Sir, they don't care.
About the I don't. It's my understanding they don't
care about the guns. Really.
No. What do they want?
They don't learn from you. You remember?
Do you remember the other day when we were sitting?
There no, Sir. You remember.
When? We were sitting there talking
about Serial, the Serial stuff. Oh shit man, that's that shit's

(48:38):
real. Well.
Let's hear about them. Want to bring them here?
They, that's my understanding. They want to learn from you.
And I'm, I'm going to tell you this and, and this is no joke.
You're a very interesting person.
You are a very intelligent person and your philosophies OK.

(48:59):
Or unusual. They're not, though.
They're not. They are for this side of the
fence. Well, they're not unusual, but
they're extreme. Does that make sense to you?
Yes, Sir. OK, So I, I, I I think they're
interested in that. OK.
And and then they really want. It's my understanding they won't

(49:20):
learn from you. I don't mind talking to them.
Believe it or not, after speaking to the two of you, I'm
kind of hoping that they don't give me death sentence, just
they don't give me a lot of licenses.
Who's? Going to be on it.
I'll try to work them out, you know?
If you spend a lot of the. Time, a lot of time, you know,

(49:44):
like I said, my mom was like, she got upset when I when I
mentioned that she got very upset actually.
Mentioned what? The the journey actually markups
earlier too. Yeah, don't do that.
Don't do that. Well, no, don't do that because
I don't like, you know, man, I told you about my friend.
And yeah, and the reason why I don't is it it it would, it
would, it would totally mess with so many people.

(50:06):
But my biggest thing at this point is not hurting anybody
else. It's closing when I can and
helping who I can. And if I can help the FBI and do
their thing, I don't mind. Hell, it might be kind of fun.
Maybe the trip to Quantico? Oh, don't tease me.

(50:30):
Godfather they took. I actually didn't have.
I don't really watch this. Movie.
Yeah, they took. I don't watch TV at all.
But I can't. Remember.
But I called that right Glen in AI had it.
Too I, I I what's? The.
Regular guy's name Abraham. Abe had to.

(50:51):
I had a. But I didn't have Glenn when he
hate Glenn. I almost died.
I was like, Oh my gosh, but do you?
Know why a excuse the language but he I fucked him.
Yeah, absolutely. He bowed up.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
And looked at him like. Yeah.
He had to keep control. Yeah, he had to.
There was no way. That man.
Show the dominance. There was no way he was coming

(51:11):
out of that, I tell you what. I've lost a lot of respect.
For in that show because my my. Preacher at church said I don't
like Rick. My my preacher at church said
you should take things that yourspouse is interested in, even if
you're not. You should try.
Them and enjoy them with them toto kind of be part of the things
that they like. So I I never watched they're.

(51:33):
So bad they're. My friend, what's the question?
But the the The funny thing lastnight started watching this show
and I didn't think I would ever like this show.
And I actually. Like this show and the one
person that I think is an absolute plus, he is Rick.
I don't like Rick. I'm like.

(51:55):
Are you kidding? 1.
Minute he's killing people and then the next minute when he's
losing, let's. Talk.
Let's talk. Wait.
A minute. You're.
Killing people and then you want.
To talk. I had my friends tell me that I
didn't like him because he was acop.
I'm like, you don't really know me that well.
You don't, but that's what you did.
Time. I've never blamed the cops for
me being in there. I blamed me for being in.

(52:17):
There I. Blame my dad for assisting it,
but I blamed me. I didn't blame cops for that.
Ron Ron chapter on that one. But the man cannot make good
decisions. He engages when he shouldn't.
He doesn't engage when he should.
He's a piss poor leader. I mean.

(52:40):
Who's your favorite? I like, I like Abe.
I don't like how I like Abe where the guy got got to say
yeah, he just. Wanted Daryl.
Daryl. Daryl is cool, he just needs to
shave and clean up. I just like that, you know, he

(53:02):
just he, you know, he's. Always going to be a follower.
He's. Always going to be a.
Follower, but he's somebody that's trustworthy.
He's going to do his job. Now, I'm never going to find out
how this turns out. Now they're going to wait till
they're all in the end and then Rick's going to wake up from the

(53:22):
dream and it's all just been pretty I.
Said that I told my wife that the other day.
I said, You know what's funny? I said she didn't know.
What I was talking about, I said, Did you remember the old
Bob, The New Hope? Show.
Yeah, I hate to admit that I actually know.
OK, the Bob New Hope show the. First one he did.
Bob Newhart The Bob Newhart Show, The first one he did with

(53:44):
where he was married to the DarkLady then.
He. That show ended and then he had
the show with the lady in the inthe hotel, and at the end of
that show he was waking up in the middle of the night.
Back in the first show, he woke up having a dream and his wife
goes from the first show. He's back in the whole set of

(54:05):
the first show and his wife goes, honey, what happened?
Oh, it was just a dream. And that's how he they ended the
second. Bob Newhart Show Well, it's like
the guy from Breaking Bad Crock,Brian whatever thing was the
the. Branson.
Bryan. Granson, he's in Breaking Bad,
but he was also in that one showwhere he was the dad of that
that school kid, Malcolm, and knocking in the Middle.
Yeah. What if that was witness

(54:26):
protection program? I'm not lie down.
I'm going to give you the Quantico but.
No, but they that's my understanding.
They want to talk to you more, possibly to interview you, to
learn from me. OK.
And if you're willing to do that, we'll let them know.

(54:48):
Sure. OK.
All right. Now, again with the attorney,
whatever you decide to do is your right, your choice, a
standby or whatever you decide to do, I'm.
Just want my paper is all I wantright now for them.
What I will do, I'm sorry, I'm not signing.
Anything with him that I just want my paper?
OK. With that being said, I will

(55:09):
check in the morning. So you're not going to sign
anything with him and hire him as an attorney tonight?
That's correct, Sir. So you still want me to come get
you tomorrow and do all this? Yes, Sir.
OK. I will still have to check in
the morning to make sure that heis not an attorney on record for
you. And then if he if he is not
attorney on record for you, thenwe will come get you and we will
do everything that we talked about.

(55:30):
OK, OK, OK. All right, yeah, I just need a
biz page because I really want to take some pressure drawings
back to. You.
No, no. That's good.
Actually. Teaching.
Those people how? You may be able to teach the FBI
some things about that. There's nothing I that he
doesn't already know. Yeah.

(55:50):
Well, he doesn't teach the FBI anything well.
You want your computer. Back.
I imagine the FBI knows more about firearms than I do.
Oh well, you know, you know, you're right there.
It's all about the thumbs. They're walking.
You got to get some thumbs, right?
All right, You know what? You.

(56:11):
Know what we got to do? That's true, Dawsey.
You want to turn it the other way?
I'm just trying to help you out so you can.
Dude, I understand. Put your put your wrist in
there. While you're doing that, I'm
going to use the restroom. Real quick.
OK, Mark, do you want? Me.

(56:39):
To shut up. Office.
No. I was going to maybe let you put
your stuff up. Well, I was thinking you were
from Anderson. I'll come back.
I'm talking to my wife. I'm coming here.
Yeah, because Anderson, people don't want to talk to me.
They're done. Oh, do what have you.
Got everything out if you need. Yeah, OK.
I'm going to shut. It.
Because I'll come back later, OK?

(57:00):
Yeah, they're done with it. They Yeah, OK, I'm.
Going to start this recorder. Yes, Sir.
Investigator Gaddy with Todd Cohap We are in the office
getting ready to go back to the detention center.

(57:22):
It is 11/6/2016 and it is 17 O 7.
Cool. You good, bud?
Yes, Sir. All right.
You'll just step out and wait right here.
We'll wait on until 2 o'clock. What's my name?

(57:52):
Hey, I I know you're going to come back and you ain't going to
have time to hook it up. Don't.
Don't leave it in there. Like my mom trying to keep me on
track. Right, it's white,

(58:56):
but the. So my handwriting may be hard to

(59:47):
read, so if you have a problem. Let me know personally if it was
my handwriting, you'd be, you understand?
I can't. I can't criticize them.
I can't do any better even. If I was, I'll go ahead and put
how many. Pages.
I'll, I'll get that. I'll just RIP the time down and

(01:00:08):
I'll get it in so initials and. The date and then I'm going to
do the same 5. Or 6. 5 And if that's accurate,
sign right there for me, and you'll get a copy just like you

(01:00:32):
got a copy of your Miranda forms.
I'll give you a copy of this as well.
I'll need a copy of that, correct?
I'll sit around. And read it 2000 is when it was
done. I just can't be talking to
gather whatever they give me a book.
They gave me a Bible, but it's. 5th day of November.

(01:00:56):
Correct, Sir, since I wrote it, you'll have to witness it you.
Understand. So he's going to win Trump or

(01:01:24):
Hillary? You're scared to know there's a
pen for you. What I put, I'm sorry, what's

(01:01:58):
the Beretta? FS.
I'm sorry, could just initial that there they.

(01:02:20):
Don't say 2927 S. We thought, I'm going to just

(01:03:24):
kill timing before we get on my knees.
If you get hungry through this process too, we'll get you
something I'll see too. I've got or if you want
something called the drink, Sir.

(01:03:52):
Yes, I did want to shoot other customers.
I'm sorry. You want just initial that

(01:04:16):
you're like me, you talk really fast so.
You ask me when I'm making a deal, Sir, You ask me when I'm
making a deal. I was in sales one side or
another. OK.

(01:06:11):
I'm trying to get that case for any of them carrying a gun.
I don't know. I don't know.
I read the. Report there was money they that
the guy had like 10 grand in cash and a gun in the in the
office but I would have taken it.
I was wondering if they. I think this religion is going

(01:06:50):
to roll over by tomorrow. There you.
Go. So this is the last.
One, I'm sorry. And when we get done, I do have
some clarifying additional clarifying things I need to ask
you. OK.

(01:07:47):
I want to leave that part open for real quick because I need to
ask you a couple clarifying questions.
You said you, you, you mentionedin here exactly where you shot
her and then you said you shot and where you shot the mechanic
when you shot him. The other two gentlemen, as they
were running, you mentioned you shot one of them in the back.

(01:08:09):
Do you know as the other one wasrunning where you shot him,
where he was hit? No.
Sir. OK.
Moving targets, Multiple moving targets.
I don't think I missed. If I did it wasn't more than

(01:08:29):
once. OK, but I mean it.
It's not an easy shot when you got 2 moving targets running.
Fascinating. The guy that was outside the
outside park, was he up against anything?
Was he tucked laying on it? Was it where I think the?
Curb. The curb.
Was there anything else nearby? I don't.

(01:08:49):
Remember anything? OK.
I scanned the parking lot but that's it was nothing moves.
I went back to. Did you through your story?
You didn't say it. So I, but I just want to
clarify, did you hit anybody or pistol whip anybody?
OK. Sir, I may shoot somebody as one

(01:09:13):
thing, right, but I'm not a pistol whipping and being
somebody is not my. Thing did you?
When you were first? There, did you see a customer
leaving in a green Ford Ranger pickup truck?
I don't remember. You don't remember?
OK I know a guy came in with a kid looking for a go Kart and

(01:09:35):
left. OK.
Because I intentionally waited till they were gone.
To add, a guy came in looking for a go Kart with his kid and I

(01:10:07):
waited for them to leave. Yes, Sir.
OK. First thing I want to do.
To shoot a kid, and that's the best of everything in there is
the best of your knowledge. Best of my knowledge, OK.
I didn't see anybody else in theparking lot.
If they were, they were leaving,and if they heard anything, they

(01:10:27):
were leaving really damn fast because nothing was suppressed.
Who got pistol whipped? I don't don't know.
Nobody may have, but there was, there was an injury that may, it
was, there was an unexplained injury.

(01:10:49):
So that's why I was asking. No, it's right.
I didn't hit anybody with anything my.
Investigator Tom Clark at my request, as I dictated OK and

(01:11:10):
what I need to do, since you've already signed it once, but I
added that bottom part, I just need you to sign it again for
me. Yeah, just below it.
And if you'll put this time, well, that's what you can just I
can witness influence. Is there anything else you can

(01:11:38):
think of? OK, we're going to step out.
We're going to do some few a fewthings and then I'll come back
in about a few minutes. Do you need anything else to
drink? If you get something, they'll
take. It would you like water or soda
or. Whatever it's going.

(01:11:59):
To be OK, I'll see what we mean.I'll see what we can wrangle up
for you. Wonder was that?

(01:12:38):
We'll be right back, bud. But don't want to.
Use what? Oh my card fashion number.
OK. We'll be right back.
I'll. Just stay here.

(01:14:56):
What are you doing? For dinner.
You missed dinner over there. That BBQ wasn't enough.
What do you want? What do you have for me?
No, I'm asking you. What do you want?
I don't. Want to be an asshole?
Shut that door mark. You're not being natural.
I'm I'm. Telling I'm asking you what?

(01:15:17):
What do you want for dinner? We've we've got what do you got
jungles around here? We've got Miami Grill around
here. We've got we've got the whatever
you want, man. Boiling Springs, cookout,
whatever. What's your what do you like to
eat? Cookout'll work.
I just that'll work. What do you like from Cookout?

(01:15:37):
Never. Been there.
You just got. Them right there?
Yes, Sir, they have a. Really good.
It's called a giant. Cheeseburger.
Giant fries and a giant tea. They're really good works.
For me. That's what I usually get.
OK, all right, I'll be right back.
I just. Don't want to be the guy because
I want the step lobster and his asshole.
You know, whatever you want to eat, I'm I'm feeding you.

(01:15:58):
Thank you. But.
That's what I mean. Got you.

(01:23:03):
I didn't. Know.
OK, yeah, got you. A didn't make them huge.
They call them huge at at. Cool.
Yeah, cool. It's a huge tea.
It's a huge burger. I didn't know.
So I just went with the normal lettuce, tomato, pickle,
mustard, mayonnaise. And then I got you huge fries.

(01:23:23):
Cool. Thank you.
Need to ask you quick. Clarifying questions.
OK, and I'm done with that damn statement, man.
So. This is yours.
You keep it, but I'm done with it.
As long as I have this, I don't care.
Yeah, you. No, this is yours.
I'm talking about me writing statements.
This is just me and me. Talking, although we've got.
Some other to talk about. That's what I'm going to ask

(01:23:44):
you. 1st of. All after you left sticker
rights, what was your what was your route home?
Did you go back down Paris Bridge Rd.
How did you get home? Same I'm I'm a creature of had
that. So you left CVS, come up shortly
and then run up Paris Bridge, the road right next there there.

(01:24:04):
Or do you? Remember, give me a.
Moment. OK, because that's part.
Of Boiling Springs to this day gets me confused with I believe
this EDS left hard on CVS lamp right, which would be Shelley
bridge. Is that right here, But then

(01:24:27):
Shelley bridge, yes, that shouldbe old furnace.
You go left cross over the four way and keep booking and booking
and booking and booking. Say that again though.
If you leave CVS. There we go.
Yes, map is excellent. OK, Hwy. 9 is here, CVS is here.

(01:24:49):
OK, there's a road next to CVS right here and then you go on up
on Hwy. 9 and then this is Parrish Bridge Road and it
eventually comes down here to Hwy. 9.
OK, so right here CVS, did you were here at CVS?
Did you go up Hwy. 9 or did you go this?
Road to Parrish Bridge 'cause. You're talking about Old

(01:25:11):
Furnace. Old Furnace is up near the high
school and all that. I didn't go by in high school.
OK, this road right here would have taken you by Balloon Farms.
That little farm thing on the left, it's like a Peach shed.
And stuff like. That it's been a long time.
Right. Well, after you left the CVS, do
you remember going? Up Hwy. 9.

(01:25:31):
Or do you? Remember, you don't remember.
Knowing me. I would have taken this and all
that. Way and you came back the same
way. Yes, OK.
Because you mentioned the four way.
Well, well, on up there's a full.
Way on Paris Bridge Rd. there's a stop light.
Gas stations on the right hand side.
If you make a left, it takes youdown past nothing that's old.

(01:25:55):
Front of Rd. it goes on. That's old.
Front of Rd. because that takes you to a high school.
Yeah, I think. Because that's not the way you
came. So you.
Came up this little road right here and went up Harrisburg Rd.
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. OK, that's.
Fine. It was how many years ago?

(01:26:15):
Yeah. So no, you're not sure.
Details are numbers. OK, can you hand me that for a
second? I'm going to throw it outside
when we're. Just no.
It's. Not when you talk about the
weapons. Hold on a second you'll.
Want me to talk about the weapons?

(01:26:41):
Hang on a second. OK, I'm kind of glad I'm not
going. I wish that one was gone.
I'm going to take these off. The lines are right.
You. Had mentioned to your mom and
that we when we had talked at the jail that there were others

(01:27:02):
and you told your mom she didn'thave enough hands.
I had some altercations in Arizona.
OK. I don't remember all the
details. I had a friend of mine that got
shot coming out coming out of a alleyway.
OK. I found the guy later.
On who was your friend that got shot?

(01:27:22):
Michael Sumpton. I was a kid.
I don't remember Michael Sumpton.
Do you remember the guy that youshot?
I never knew his name. You never knew his name.
He he drove a Nova. Grey Nova what?
Year was that you think? Well, how old were you?
14. You were 14.
What's it then? OK.

(01:27:44):
My my understanding is there wassome kid who wanted to be in a
gang and was doing his initiation.
And his initiation was to shoot your friend.
We were just two kids coming outof an alley.
We were part of nothing. We were part of nothing.
That was his initiation. Yes, Sir.
Wow. Have you killed anybody else in

(01:28:08):
Spartanburg? Yes.
Sir. Have you killed anybody else in
South Carolina? No, Sir, other than the boy in
Arizona and Super bikes and the ones that we have on the
property, have you killed anybody else?
And this is where I ask it is. Is that enough?

(01:28:30):
I do, but no. No, no, this is the thing.
No, this is the thing. This is not.
To drive anyhow home or anythinglike that.
OK, you had your moment in here with your mom and this is your
opportunity to get everything. It it's not, you know what I'm
saying? It's an opportunity to get
everything out of the way, you know, because you're going to be

(01:28:52):
sitting in in a cell and and there's going to be long times
and, and you're a compassionate person.
I'm a compassionate person, OK, You're in the heat of the moment
when somebody pisses you off, you may want to beat the shit
out of them, shoot them, stab and kill them, whatever.
But when you're laying there at night, it's gonna it may.

(01:29:12):
Bother. You you see what I'm saying and
that's the only reason I'm asking that's.
The only one I've shot. That's the only one you've shot.
OK. I didn't want to have to explain
numbers on the phone and I sure didn't want to give numbers A4.
It's it's already hard up. I know you guys are listening.
Actually, we have it I'm. Surprised I actually thought you

(01:29:36):
got a name. I got one.
I got a phone call yesterday, finally got a phone call.
But you, you said that you knew that you, you said that I had.
That's how my mom reached out. Your mom reached out.
She told she actually, you told her to reach out to me.
I did. OK.
Well, she inadvertently reached out somehow through to the

(01:29:58):
solicitor's office who reached out to me.
So that's How I Met with one of their investigators.
And he told. Me that your mom had reached out
to him and he told me what she had said and then we went from
there talking. So that's how all that

(01:30:18):
transpired. OK they're they're they're
they're recording probably I don't have I I don't you know I
don't I don't OK, so there's no one because.
And I was told to ask you, there's 2 missing people out of

(01:30:40):
Gastonia. I can't remember that.
And it it's irrelevant. You're saying you not killed or
harmed anybody else. That's correct.
The other person that you were talking.
About. I'm not sure I'd even killed
him. OK.
And it was a long, long so. When you told mom she didn't
have enough fingers, I just didn't.
Know what to tell on the phone? OK, So that was kind of not an,

(01:31:03):
I don't want to say embellishment, but it was just
something to. Didn't want to give her phone
numbers I. Gotcha.
I gotcha. More than one hand, but it's not
really a bracking. Kind of.
I understand. Somebody's muscle heads may call
that, oh, that's cool. I I don't really call that cool.
Hey, Todd, a while ago you made a statement that said that when
you you just said those are the only people I've shot.

(01:31:26):
Any other names? OK.
I just know that you're very deliberate with what you say.
Did you stab anybody or anythinglike that?
Well, not yeah, but not like shewas thinking I was a kid.
I was killing school bus school scissors.
OK, learn, not stab anybody and kill anybody by stabbing them or
anything like that, OK? OK.

(01:31:48):
And you can call me Tommy. You don't call me Sir.
It's just respect, right? How old are you 45?
What's that image? He's Sir.
OK, well. It's hard for me not to to say,
Sir. I got you.
I understand, man. That's it's, you know, my kids

(01:32:09):
do that to me. I never told him to.
My dad was a military man and his dad was a military man.
And he would not make me call him Sir because he always had to
call people Sir. And I don't make my children
call me Sir. But they did.
Just just remember too, at the beginning we told you that
there's probably not a lot we'regoing to be able to do for you.

(01:32:30):
Giving you a a clear conscience is one of the only things we
can. Honestly, I'm not worried about
my conscience. You gave me what I wanted.
What I wanted was to be to have the opportunity to take care of
my mom, whether my girlfriend accepts it or not, to at least
attempt to take care of her and her kid.
Do you still want me to reach out and call?

(01:32:51):
I have not yet. But do you still want me to
reach out and talk to her to seeif she wants to come see you or
talk to you? If she would please.
OK, I. Will the biggest thing is please
let her know that whether I screwed up and I can't fix it, I
hope that she doesn't basically let her probably get in the way.

(01:33:13):
I've got mom to clear her house on trying to sell this stuff
off. OK, no one will get rich here,
but the idea is I'd like to be able to get enough money where
she is not damaged, where she can basically restart her life
without this over her head and put the kid through some school

(01:33:34):
she grows up to be something positive past that.
That's all I wanted. I mean, Mom's going to put some
money on my books once the moneyis released.
OK. And you wouldn't need to
transfer that to the bank on thecomputer or to the bank right?
Or by the checkbook. The easiest way would be one or

(01:33:56):
two things. One, release the cash in the
safe as option A, or release thetwo checkbooks.
I don't need the escrow checkbook, but I do need the
personal checkbook and the company checkbook.
What are they? What bank?
Account and what are they? Both of those are Wells Fargo.
Although on the all the what do they say on?

(01:34:19):
Well, on the on the checks talk hold it.
No, it's talk hold and associates.
The one I don't need. There's $1000 in that account.
That's mine. I did transfer over.
So you want to bring me the escrow?
There's three checks. I don't know.
What? I don't remember back up.
I don't know what you know. I don't know what we're going to
be able to do. I just got to there.
Is 3 checkbooks all together. OK.

(01:34:41):
One of them actually says what Wachovia is.
Blueish Wachovia personal Why could he turn into Wells Fargo?
So I left. That glue because I could tell
mine versus the. Companies.
Since I'm a sole proprietor, basically something is me.
So I pay off a bunch of things if I can just get the cheque

(01:35:03):
books and write her a cheque outof each one of them.
I don't know the total total of each account, but if I can kick
her. Something then.
We can deal with the rest of my later.
Well, that's, I mean, we'll, like I said, I can tell you in
the beginning, I'll do everything I can because.
Mom doesn't have any money. I'll do.
Everything I can, I didn't. Know she was that bad.
Mom, you know. I haven't seen her in years.

(01:35:25):
That was in her in years. What happened to her hip?
Oh. Man, everything.
She's more accent prone than I am.
Really. If.
If there's a bump, there's if there's a curve, there's
something out there. That woman will hit it.
She want me to well. Let me go out and take care of a
few things, she went. Well, because she was a big girl
when I met her the last time I saw her.
She will. Let.

(01:35:48):
Me ask you this too, Todd, in reference to the other two
people that we talked about downthere, Megan and Johnny, is
there anything that you left outwhile we were at the jail
talking while we were at the detention center talking about
them that we need to know? I mean obviously you told me and

(01:36:09):
make sure that I'm getting this right.
You pick them up at Blackstock and you know what you pick them
up at Blackstock and Regal Road and then that's well, OK, no
certain start. I met her there.
OK got her number. We talked on the phone for a

(01:36:32):
brief moment, OK, then I met them later on at that next to
Ricky's hot dog's big huge parking lot.
They walked across and spoke to me there.
I almost thought she was going to hit on me to actually come

(01:36:52):
on, show me the right guys in our car, but just not what I was
there for. I got you.
I'm going to tell you our meaning look shitty and shit.
I understand. I mean, I got you because you
show up with with that in that parking lot kind of the way she
was I. Understand what you're talking.
About basically offered her the job, offered to let him to go in

(01:37:15):
and do her work as well. The next day she the next day of
this was over several days. The next day she was in the
paper mug shots. I guess you guys had arrested
her for meth or some shit hair. I don't know.
Something was in her bloodstreamand you took her kids away.
OK, I asked her about it and sheinformed me that yeah, she had

(01:37:41):
drug issues. And with that, I still was going
to give him a chance. You know, I get shit happens to
people. It's hard.
I get it. I'm going to meet him back
there. Actually, I meet him there, but

(01:38:03):
they told me the address which is across the street where they
were. Do you remember that address?
Last year, that's what we were talking about behind the farmer
complex. Yes.
OK, I can't say the. Address but another day if you
want to. The house is unique enough I can
point it out. OK.

(01:38:24):
Because it sits on the corner onat a funky angle.
I I OK you. Know what has to talk about?
Yeah. What happened there?
What do you mean? For you to know that.
House I used to patrol out thereyears ago.
I don't know about what particularly happened out there.
I just know the house you're talking about.
Well, you said no, no, when I used to patrol I patrol that
area. So when you yeah, when I, when

(01:38:47):
you. So, I mean, that's that's I.
Patrol that area. I didn't know something else
happening. No, not no.
I wasn't a part of it. If the house is out on the
corner, that's kind of crooked way it's located.
And I picked them up and I drovehim to my land of kids supplies
and got him down to my building.And that's when Johnny pulled a

(01:39:11):
knife out and. You shot him.
I shot him. What'd you do with his knife?
Oh no, I don't. Keep that contract.
You just threw it out. Yeah, that's right.
You got him I. What did she do when you shot
Johnny? What did she do when Johnny
pulled the knife out? What did she say?
Nothing. So you think she was planning on
the planning of this? I think she entirely was in the

(01:39:32):
plan of it. There was there was no, oh shit,
Johnny, what are you doing? There was none of that.
This was her actions were she knew he was doing that.
They saw a guy who had a shit load of money driving a car they
can't afford. They didn't even have a car and

(01:39:53):
they were going to get something.
So then you shot him how many times?
Shot him twice in the chest. He dropped forward, he dropped
forward. I went around him and put
another one through a spinal cord.
OK. And you shot her.

(01:40:15):
Not exactly OK. The conex was not meant to be.
A cage, OK. All that changed, it was after
the fact. OK.
Connex was designed for my food and my weapons and to secure my

(01:40:36):
four Wheeler before I had the building built.
The back area, that's all wood that wasn't designed for them,
that was designed for my stuff. Until last week, there was no
ceiling on that. I put that in because she was
cold. Caleb, it's called.
OK, I'm glad we're still talkingabout John.

(01:40:57):
I got you. She's all related to the back to
help keep her warm. I don't know what to do with it
man. One side I really want to drop
her, the next side I really I found fucked up.
I kind of wanted to save her ass.
I I don't. Let me back up real quick before
we go that far because we were talking about Johnny.

(01:41:19):
The gorilla was with Johnny. Did you shoot her?
Not at that time. OK, what happened with her?
She panicked and then she told her to sit down.
She sat down, went ahead and cuffed her, patted her down,
told her I wasn't going to hurt her.
She calmed down and I actually took her to the conex.
No, that's not true. I had her way there for a while.

(01:41:41):
I've never had to do with her. I did one of my conex because I
had stuff in there and know whatthe hell to do with it.
Putting her in with my guns is not a good idea.
I can understand that. I actually had to go.
For the first time I ever had a look at the panic of what the
hell do I do with her? Put her here.
Put her there. Drop her.
What the hell to do? Do I call the cops?
Oh shit, I got legal guns. Oh shit, oh shit.

(01:42:04):
Oh shit. What do I do with her?
Shoot that shit. Crazy man.
That's what you said earlier. I told her I wasn't going to
touch her, wasn't going to rape her, wasn't going to her, just
calm the hell down and let me sort this shit out.

(01:42:25):
Somewhere between when I did that I shot him back tight in
the back, got her to calm down and kept coming back and forth
trying to figure out what to do.But I had her cuffed and she
wouldn't go anywhere. Eventually I went and locked
once I left her on the floor fora while.

(01:42:45):
I left her on that floor, cuffed.
I wouldn't because I didn't knowwhat I'll do with her.
I didn't want her in the building.
OK. Got the tractor, got it out of
there, picked the body up and was trying to figure out what
the hell to do with it. This is Johnny's body.
Yeah, OK. Like I said, I was held with.
A meltdown I understand. The lamb was supposed to be my.

(01:43:09):
Sanctuary. Yeah, not my killing field.
Right, I understand not that. 'D be my killing field.
It was supposed to be the place where I'd go to relax and get
away from people and not deal with this shit.
This. This killing.
We bothered because it was such needless bullshit.
Hell, I was giving them money. Why were you bothering me?

(01:43:35):
I. Went down to the comics, cleaned
out the back area because I had shit all in there.
And at one time those ammo racksweren't there.
The ammo rack was here and here,pistol, rifle.

(01:43:55):
So there was only that much space at the back.
So I moved all the guns forward and at that time those were on
casters and those are not on casters.
Now put her back there to her. Calm the hell down.
Let me rethink this crap. Let me see what the hell I'm.
I'm trying to figure out what todo.

(01:44:15):
One guy, Johnny, went over thereand dug a hole.
And like I said, you take the tractor and you keep going in
and dig and what you end up doing is making a slanted until
I could put him here. Dug that, stuck him in it,
covered it up. It's a lot more work than you
think. Did that, went back and dealt

(01:44:37):
with her, tried to figure out what to do with her.
Really wasn't sure. Ended up basically leaving her
tied up there and went and got some chain.
I had chain around. There's lots of chain in that
building. I used chain for all kinds of
shit. There's chain in the in the
woods where I've got trees that come along that are certainly
leaning towards my fence and I'll put a chain around it.
I could come along to it and start working this way and over

(01:44:58):
a period of time it'll fall awayfrom the fence.
So chain and cable and that kindof stuff.
I got a lot of tied her up afterthere while I try to figure out
what. Didn't know what to do with it
man. Got rid of Johnny, came back,
left her there, went and got food, fed the girl.

(01:45:25):
Fed her after she tried to rob you man.
What do you want to do with her?I don't want to shoot her, I
understand. I mean, I can't have some crazy
batshit woman going back up. I mean, she was going to bipolar
left and right. She wouldn't calm down.
Like oh, she finally calmed down, but she would, she was
talking to me and 1st she had drug issues and then she kept

(01:45:48):
going off the deep end with weird shit and kept talking and
then she kept telling me that she had Mac manic modes or some
sort of bipolar lithium crap. How the hell it was where?
I mean she was up, down, up, down, up, down.
So she didn't mellow out like Kayla did.
No, not at all. She did finally calm down.

(01:46:11):
But. She.
Wasn't upset. What made you decide to shoot
her? I'll get to that, OK.
I wasn't going to shoot her. OK, I was going to give her
money, OK. I don't know why the hell she
let the hell off I held her. I hate the kidnapping part.

(01:46:31):
There's another one. I held her in there for a couple
days. How many days?
5 or 6. OK.
I Every every other damn day shewanted Little Caesars pizza.
I ate that shit. All the good in heartburn.
Little Caesars pizza. Mountain Dew.

(01:46:53):
Not Mountain Dew. Dr. Pepper salmon rolls in
friggin Newports. If you go down to my building,
you'll find an unused package ofNewports that I bought for her.
And then you went batshit. She took, she tried to light my
damn building on fire. Do you know?
How and how back of what building the Conex?
The Newport pack is still there.The Newport pack is still inside

(01:47:16):
the toolbox. This is the unused pack.
I bought her a actually bought her a card.
OK, I don't. I don't buy, I don't smoke.
I. Don't know how to buy her.
I went in the store, I said OK Ineed I think Newports Reds.
Where the hell they were the lady went?
Do you want a pack or a cardinal?
Oh shit, I don't really know. Give me a frigging carton.

(01:47:38):
Got her that, got her lighter. Wasn't sure what the hell to
give her man. Is that toolbox inside the
comics or is it in one of the ones inside the It's the
building? Red toolbox inside the building,
bottom drawer, left hand side. You'll find some Lube and stuff
in there. I had none do it.
I just didn't know where the hell to put the shit.

(01:48:01):
There's also a friend of mine gave me his girlfriend gave me
1000 little packets of KY. Do you want to use it?
I don't know. You didn't use it.
I don't know. It's still in the bag.
I am infection. So then what happened with her?
Went from there. Oh, there's a collar in there.
That collar was careless. Net collar.

(01:48:25):
Yeah, she had me order. It she asked you to order it.
Yes, Sir. OK.
We'll get to that in a minute. Didn't use it because if it came
in the mail I would tell him went oh.
OK. And she said he came from Megan.
It's it's a stainless steel collar with like hooks for
putting like locks on, I mean. Dude.

(01:48:45):
It's like having me. I don't treat my dogs that way.
So what happened with Megan? Put in there, fed up for a
couple days, proceeded to go ahead.
Mostly just left people the hellalone.
Left her alone. I didn't know what to do with
her and then she kept burning shit.
I come in and often find that she burnt her blanket and she

(01:49:07):
burnt this. She's sitting next to 100,000
reps ammo. Love of God please stop burning
shit. If that thing goes off.
Do you know what? Do you know what that would do
to a neighborhood or an area that's only a neighborhood?
It wouldn't. Holy shit.
Please do not catch the buildingon fire.

(01:49:28):
She kept trying to get shit on fire and then go on smoking.
I would open the door and then the cloud would come out.
It's like, well, those cartoons looking back, giving her
cigarettes, why I made a mistake.
I had her there, left her alone,took her down the other

(01:49:53):
building, sat her down for a while, got her to calm down.
Just please calm down. Got her some food, told her
basically that if she would justchill the hell out.
You don't know me, you don't know very much about me, you
don't have shit. And last time I could check from
what was online, she had a warrant when they were looking

(01:50:14):
for her ass. I'll give you what, $4000?
I'll drive you up to Dayton, TN.I'll drop your ass off
somewhere. If you got any common sense on
this planet, you'll go left and I'll go right.
What? She said.
Oh, she got so excited I got my Dick sucked.
She did. Yeah, it wasn't bad.

(01:50:35):
Oh, no. OK, hey girl went off of hey.
I told her I would drove her $4000 and basically release her
in Tennessee. Just go.
Please go. Don't come back.
It seemed like an easy, It seemed like an easy solution.

(01:50:57):
She didn't really know my name. She didn't know my address.
She didn't know where I lived when I first met her.
I mean, I told her who I was, but I just told her I was a
realtor. She didn't really know me.
There was very little for her tocome in.
What's she going to do? She's got warrants out for her
arrest. She'll like call you guys up to
say some asshole shot my boyfriend, but you're looking

(01:51:19):
for me anyhow. I don't know where he lives.
We went to some land. I don't know where the fuck I
was. Can I ask you a question?
Yes, Sir. Did and I'm.
I am jumping back and forth. That's right, back to Megan In
in just a minute. Did you give Kayla any
cigarettes or did you Did you give Kayla cigarettes?

(01:51:43):
Cigarettes. No.
She took a shit load of pills. OK.
So does she want cigarettes? She asked me for for weed.
Why would you not? Is is that so obviously you
didn't give it to her. Was the trouble that you had

(01:52:03):
with Megan something that you decided I'm not going to go
through this again? Oh, definitely top thing.
So you basically went for, you know, you didn't want to give
her cigarettes to let her attempt to burn shit because you
learned from what Megan did. Yes, You wasn't going on fire.
You wasn't going to let Kayla dothat.
But I don't remember Kayla asking me for.
Cigarettes. Kayla didn't ask you for

(01:52:24):
cigarettes. OK, But Megan.
So you're, you're sitting there with Megan.
Yes, Sir. And Megan, I don't.
Understand the question then, because she didn't ask me for
cigarettes. Well, and that's fine.
I didn't know if she did or not.I just, I just thought that I
wasn't going to give her anything like that.
There you go. All that stuff was was Burg and
I was like. So with Megan, you, you.

(01:52:46):
You made her the offer of the $4000.
Keep your mouth shut. I think you're Tennessee.
Drop you off and leave it. You go one way, I'll go the
other way. What made that change?
What happened? What?
Do you mean what made that change?
Well, she ended up dead. Oh, you mean what?
What were proceeded? Yeah.
That makes sense. I'll use your words, we're

(01:53:07):
proceeded. I'm not trying to be.
Any No. Yeah, you just need.
You, man, What? You're not being an asshole.
What? I do, We're fine.
I wanted to get rid of her. The weather went to shit.
We were having sleet. It was right before Christmas,
man. We were here having sleet.
We were having rain. The weather went to shit and I

(01:53:28):
still had to find a way to get away from Ashley, my girlfriend,
long enough to get up out of work, get this person in
Tennessee, drop her off and get home.
That's not a that's not just a couple hour trip, no.
And if I'm driving her, it's a big border.
We're going north of Nashville. I want her way away from me.

(01:53:48):
I I want her to forget where South Carolina is.
I told her so I give you, I giveyou 4K in cash.
Drop you off somewhere on the side of the other side of
nowhere. If you got any common sense, you
keep walking. Go get a job at go get a job at
A at A at a diner somewhere working as a waitress.
Get your shit, get your shit right.

(01:54:09):
Don't come back. They got lunch free here and I'm
here, so just don't come back. She was going to take it.
She was happy. She was happy as hell.
For like 2 days she was happy ashell.
I just couldn't get past the weather the last day I went over

(01:54:32):
there, opened the Conex up. She burned half the friggin
building this stuff. I mean, she took my ammo racks
and grabbed. Them and did this.
Holy shit. Oh, I'm going to tell you I'm
not. For such a real shit, damn.

(01:54:52):
So then what? Happened well there was ammo
everywhere and stuff everywhere and she broke the thing and I I
got her a fan. She broke the fan prime and just
can't beat that shit to their two day shipping.
Got her all those. There's a pen in there now but

(01:55:13):
it came as a 2 pack. I had her those to get air
ventilation. I got laners for her so she have
light. I did the best I could to make
it somewhere livable. Got her blankets, got her
pillows. She lit the damn thing on fire.
I'm surprised she didn't fixate.That's what I was thinking.
I'm surprised she didn't when I was in the building.

(01:55:33):
I mean, I was choking. I'm going, holy shit, went to
get her out and then all of a sudden it's like I had a caged
animal on my hands. I don't know what the hell, what
the hell she went from. I'm so freaking happy in the
world to be I'm going to go to Tennessee with money and I'm
going to restart my life. And thank you, thank you, thank
you. To.

(01:55:54):
That shit crazy. So let me just look that up.
I. Got you.
At that point, I tried to walk her out of the building.
I just had enough. I walked outside.
I was trying to calm down her. What the hell to do with her,
what to do with her, what to do with her.
I didn't know. I came back in the building.
She was going nuts. Just it wasn't like she was

(01:56:18):
emotional about the situation. This, this has been days.
It wasn't like that. It was just like serious
chemical imbalance yet. And she walked outside.
I walked, I walked her outside and walked her outside.
I put a four in the back of her head.
What gun did you shoot her with?The same one that you shot
Johnny Wood, and that's a Glock.And that's the same 1 you shot.

(01:56:41):
Charlie. Charlie what?
Is my favorite gun just it's. Just it's a.
It's a handy, handy one. It's very effective, especially
if you shoot a. 180. Grains, let me ask you this one
I do have, I do have one clarification question with with
Charlie, OK, because like we talked to you before about the
feet we're missing. I didn't tell you.
My feet I I I know, I know. You didn't, I know you didn't

(01:57:03):
Animals, whatever 'cause you said you had coyotes out there.
I do. When you know how you saying you
you dug out and it kind of leaves a little little ramp kind
of thing there. When you put him in the the hole
grave, so to speak. OK.
Was he face down? Was his head going downhill?
Was his head coming going up? Was he on his back?

(01:57:26):
Do you remember? I don't remember.
I hit tail today. So you just hit tilt, He fell
out. All I do is all I do is drive up
there, hit tilt, dropped him outthe way he way he went, the way
he went the. The hole is this way.
Yes, Sir. Did he?
Ran this way or this way? Do you remember?

(01:57:51):
Well, there we got. There you go.
If if you if you dig. Here.
Going this way and you basicallyas you go in, you keep going
down deeper. So it ends up like this.
Right, right. As you go down you I put.

(01:58:12):
I don't know why I keep acting like I did this.
A lot of times I did them put the dirt to the side, put.
The dirt. To the side and I put the dirt
behind it and then when I basically just grow down.
But there had been a lot of raindays before this.
OK. So there was water down there
and I got him down as far as I could and then I just basically

(01:58:32):
hit the little far forward, hit the bucket, hit the get the dirt
as I could behind him, pull it, put this dirt, put that dirt and
cover it as best I could. I think he was kind of.
Sideways and you know how the two holes?
Are parallel. This so he wouldn't like, let's

(01:58:53):
say this is a bed. He wouldn't be laying in a like
head to head to football at the headboard at the football.
He'd be kind of more catty cornered across it.
This one way he could be in there I I he would never be like
this one. OK.
And the the reason? So you would have been digging
from this angle, reaching out. Coming back this way, right?

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