Beyond the Red Carpet: The Oscar Decisions That Shocked Us

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Beyond the Big Screen Podcast with your host
Steve Guera. Thank you for listening to Beyond the Big
Screen podcast, where we talk about great movies and stories
so great they should be movies. Find show notes, links
to subscribe and leave Apple podcast reviews by going to

(00:23):
our website Beyond the Big Screen dot com. And now
let's go beyond the Big Screen.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Everybody, Welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Big Screen.
I am super excited today to be joined by Adam
Techs Davis. He is the co founder and COOO of
Atomic Entertainment Group. Thank you so much for joining us today, Adam,
and maybe just introduce yourself to our auditor. Do you
preferred texts? I assume you know.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's
a pleasure to be here. So Adam Davis is a
very common name. You Google search Adam Davis, five thousand
people pop up, including my cousin who's a lunatic and
so very early on I added the texts. It was
kind of an inside joke in college. I was in
my student film. I played a character text. People were

(01:17):
calling me text. I had a jacket that said text
on the back and it just became a fun nickname.
But now it's like, if you Google search Adam tex Davis,
I come up. So it became a marketing sort of
a way to separate myself from all the other Adam Davidson.
And then, yeah, you know, I've always been a writer.
I've followed many different paths in writing. I thought I

(01:37):
wanted to be Stephen King and write horror novels. That
I thought I was going to be a journalist until
I realized I didn't have enough journalistic integrity to not
make things up if the story wasn't good enough. So
I was like, I have enough journalistic integrity to know
that I had no journalistic integrity. So I gave that up.
But then I was like, where can I take kernels
of truth and embellish them and make great stories? Oh? Screenwriting.

(02:00):
I went to film school. You know, I want to
be a writer director. Came out of school, wrote some scripts.
They got some attention with my student film. I was
able to sell some scripts. I get hired for rewrites.
So I had like ten plus years of just screenwriting
that I got more into television, did some television stuff.
I got an Emmy nomination for a show I helped

(02:20):
co create and then yeah, transitioned into podcasting as well.
So it's always you know, there's always a pivot, but
it's always using my writing skills and my storytelling skills.
So that's the through line to my career.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
As somebody in the entertainment industry. What do you think
about Hollywood? What do you think about the whole stem
of how it works, especially as a writer, because that's
a lot of the things that we talk about on
this podcast is how stories are created. And do you
think that the waste Hollywood works today is the best
way to get really good stories.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, I mean there's you know, there's always the thing
like the Hollywood you know, look, it's a business. You know,
it's it's show business. So I get that they're just
trying to make a lot of money, and a lot
of times it's you know, having ip that already exists
underlying uh, you know properties, you know, books, turning books
into movies, games, you know, now it's superheroes and you

(03:17):
know a lot of prequels and sequels and all that stuff, so,
you know, remakes. You know, it's a little disheartening in
one sense when you want to tell original stories, but
there are avenues to do that, you know. But it's
you know, I definitely feel less of a connection with
Hollywood than I used to, you know, And and it's
shrunk a lot. You know, it's contracted. So there used

(03:41):
to be a lot of places to sell scripts, to
take meetings and stuff. That's kind of you know, definitely
shrunk to the point where there's just a handful of
places you can go with stuff. And now the TV
business has done the same thing. We you know, you
go to used to go out to twenty different places
to pitch your show. Now you know, there's a conglomerate
that's five different channels now boiled into one, and you

(04:03):
pitch one person and they decide if it's good for
any of their vehicles or verticals. I should say. The
point is, uh yeah, I mean, you know, it's it
can be a little disheartening, but it's you know, it's
if this is what you're meant to do, then you
just keep getting back on the horse. You get knocked down,
you get back up, and you know, more things you
do are not going to get made, more things you

(04:23):
do are not going to sell. But you know that
going in and you know you never know what's going
to happen. So I've had great highs as well.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
This even with our media and that we're doing right now.
With podcasting, it's exploded so much in the last decade decade,
eight and a half where you to where the point
where you can make a podcast that sounds almost radio
quality and it it has democratized basically essentially radio. Do

(04:51):
you see something happening with that with film and with
TV where people can make something that's almost two professional
quality and then we can start telling stories that may
not be the most economics for a big thing like
a like a big movie company to make, but you

(05:13):
can do something that's more democratic, you might say, for sure.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
I mean, I mean, look, the thing we love about
podcasts is that we don't have to rely on a
studio or a network telling us what we can't do.
We don't get notes, We own all the IP one
hundred percent. So you know, at this point, I've got
about five podcasts, different podcasts that you know, we can
talk about later, but you know, that's the fun of that.
And that all started during the pandemic for us, because

(05:38):
we couldn't shoot anything, couldn't go out and couldn't leave
our home. So we got microphones and we just started
you know, recording some stuff. And you know, it's it's
also a very right, you know, very written medium. So
it's like, you know, I could put my writer brain,
write something fun, record it and put it out there.
In terms of film, yeah, I mean, look you look
at what like Sean Baker is doing, like with you know,

(05:59):
his his movie. I mean, you know, he did Tangerine
all on a phone and then you know, the Florida
project blew up for him now and Noora is you know,
in Oscar contention, and he tells stories that are not conventional,
that are not Hollywood stories, and they get you know,
they get attention. So there, like, if you're a good
storyteller and you know, you meet the right people and
you keep your budgets low, you can you can tell

(06:21):
interesting things out there. So there is that indie market. Uh,
but it's not uh you know, it's it's a slug.
It's a slug, you know, until you've become a name
and people trust you. You know, I've got a couple
of things out there now that are we're trying to
attached to an actor. That means just a little bit
so that you know somebody would be interested in it.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Steve here with a quick word from our sponsors. Now,
speaking of your podcast, do you have a couple of
podcasts and the one podcast that really caught my attention,
so this podcast by Oscars. What were they thinking? I
think that that when I started listening to that podcast,
it was like, that is exactly. That's almost what we're
going for in this show is to deep dive into

(07:02):
some of these things and what were they thinking? What
was your genesis for that idea? Maybe give us a
little background and then we can dig into some of
your ideas because I think in a lot of ways
there it's quite iconoclassic, which I think people who listen
to this show will definitely enjoy.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Right, Well, that's music to my ears. Thank you. Yeah,
the Oscars? What were they thinking? I mean it all
started in a conversation I was having with an editor
friend where we were like, you know, they shouldn't have
the Oscars at the end of the year, because it's
too soon to know which movies are really going to
stand the test of time. We should give like you know,
like the way baseball player takes like five or ten

(07:39):
years to get into the Hall of Fame. Let's take
some time and then ten years from now, we could
look back at the films of ten years ago and
decide which one really stood out as the best film.
And then I, you know, taking that premise, you know,
kind of jokingly, I started looking back at old Oscars
and seeing all these crazy anomalies like wow, like two
films that were got all the nominations, but there was

(08:02):
a third film that didn't get any That's the one
that everybody talks about and still loves today, and the
others who cares, Like there's so many who cares moments,
And then there's like weird battles between films. There's you know,
I mean, look, it's all subjective. It's not sports. You
don't score a touchdown and win the Oscars, like you
you know, it's people's opinion. But it is funny how

(08:23):
many things like you could look back and almost as
a film goer, go h did they get that right?
You know? And there's so many you know, I mean,
like now I'm really immersed in it. So I'm seeing
all these Reddit subreddits and stuff of people like fighting
over was this really the best movie? Should this have
been nominated? Why were these movies nominated and not these?
So it's something I think cinephiles and even casual moviegoers alike,

(08:46):
you know, can dig into, and you know, it's fun
to debate, and more so, you know, it's fun to
mention all these older movies. Like at the end of
the show, I list out all the movies that we
talked about and they'll be like forty different idols, so
that people can go back and check out some of
these movies that either didn't get the credit it deserved,
I think, or just you know, why not you know,

(09:09):
fill in your blank spots of movies that came out
in nineteen sixty or nineteen seventy two or you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, I love that idea. Separating it in time where
you have no perspective. Really to really maybe objectively look
at a movie isn't the right way, but at least
to have a little bit of space to say that,
you know, this one particular movie just grabbed the zeitgeist,
and I what's often the difference. Sometimes the movie is

(09:36):
released and within six months or less it's getting nominated
or not. There's a sweet spot from what I understand
of when they want to release a movie.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well, yeah, I mean December is usually the Oscar bait month.
You know, they put their prestige things there, so it's
the freshest in everybody's mind. You know, you forget Oh wait,
that movie came out in January, you know, early in
the year, and you forgot about it, and you know
it was maybe a contender for the first three four
months and then it gets forgotten about. I mean, I
would also be remiss. I have to mention my co

(10:09):
star on the show. It's the incomparable Bruce Valanche, who
is just a comedy legend, you know, comedy joke writer,
and you know he's written everything books, screenplays. But more
so he worked for the Oscars for twenty five plus years.
He was the one writing the show, so he has

(10:29):
all these behind the scenes backstory, you know, great behind
the scenes moments with the stars on Hollywood's biggest night.
But also you know, as he's like a movie encyclopedia.
So I'll say, like, look, I know the color purple
and out of Africa we're battling it out in nineteen
I think for the nineteen eighty six Oscar. But to

(10:51):
me back to the Future was the best movie that
came out that year, wasn't even nominated, And then he'll
explain why he thinks those movies were nominated, why Back
to the Future or wasn't. And he could do that
with almost, you know, almost any movie so far in
all the years we've covered he has, you know, so
he you know, in my mind, it's like the Oscars,
what were they thinking? And to him it's like, no, no,

(11:12):
the Oscars, what what were they thinking? Here I will
tell you what they were thinking. So we kind of
compete and debate and go at each other. You know.
I'm sort of the everyman movie guy and he's the Oscar.
He represents the Academy Awards in a way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
I really love that dynamic of that. You have ideas
and thoughts and he's the insider, but he does not.
He's like an insider, but an outsider like he's he
has this perspective that feels like an outsider perspective, but
he's as insider as you could really get.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yeah, Bruce would love to be called inside out. That
is definitely a great way to describe him. Yeah, I mean,
he is the ultimate outsider who happens to be inside, like, wait,
what's this guy doing here? Oh, he's also the funniest
guy in the room, you know, And yeah, I mean
if I can win him over, like that's like a
big you know, like you know, a big feather in

(12:06):
my cap. Like at any point in the episode, you know,
because I'll say something like so and so was snubbed,
and he's like, I don't believe in snubs. He's like,
why a snub? No, they voted what they like, so
what's a snub? And then I'll point out something like, well,
you know, for example, the color Purple was nominated for
eleven Oscars for every single category except Best Director. So

(12:29):
you're gonna tell me that Steven Spielberg, who finally is
doing a serious movie and got this movie made when
no one else could and had best Actresses and and
and you know, best Picture and Best Score and best
all this writing everything, but not the director. He goes, Okay,
maybe you know, you know, you might be right, maybe
he was snubbed. And I'm like, oh, thank you, Bruce,
thank you. You know, so little little things like that

(12:51):
are always great, you know, And yeah, I got him
to admit that maybe he would have voted from back
to the Future too, but uh you know, uh yeah,
but you know, he definitely does take the Academy side
because he's like, look, these are beautiful movies. Like you
might think that this shouldn't have been nominated, but let
me explain to you why it was and what you know. So, yeah,

(13:11):
we have interesting conversations and debates.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's the levels that and most people would are familiar
with the Oscars. But and you use the term not academy,
and most people are familiar with that. But how does
this organization work? Like who runs it, what is how
is it established? What are some of maybe the the
nuts and bolts of the Academy and the Oscars.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yes, sir, I mean you know, look, it was established
in the early days to you know, bring attention to movies.
And I know it was like some of the luminaries.
I don't know if it was like Jack Warner or
you know, somebody you know from that era you know,
established it. But also it's like the Arts and sciences,
because there was science happening, you know, like the film

(13:54):
you know, going from silent to talking, and you know,
like cameras, and you know, there was science being introduced
to the public. Sphere, So they wanted to award that,
and they just wanted to bring a lot of attention
to the best movies. And look, the early Oscars in
the thirties, there's a lot of great movies like where
you're like okay, yeah, I get it, and even the

(14:15):
head to Heads or are phenomenal, like you know, the
Wizard of Oz and What's the Gone with the Wind?
And also there was another great movie that came out
that year, you know, so it's like, you know, there's
a lot of really good stuff competing, you know, I mean, look,
everybody loves Citizen Kane. It's the you know, known as
one of the greatest movies of all time. Didn't win

(14:36):
the Oscar the year came out. You know, how Green
is My Valley won that year and also a great movie.
So it was started to just shine of light on movies.
In fact, it wasn't even for the public in terms
of the ceremony. It was like a private party that
the original Oscars were like private. Then it was like,
oh no, you know what, the public would probably like
to see the stars and stuff, So they introduced, you know,

(14:58):
having it be a big spectacle, and then you know,
the one thing a lot of people don't realize is
there's all these different branches in the Academy. So there's
the director's branch, the writer's branch, the actors branch, and
those branches nominate the the you know, the nominees for
that category, and then the entire academy votes on the

(15:20):
overall winners once they have the nominees. So that's why
sometimes you'll see a weird movie that doesn't like show
up anywhere else except the writers liked it. You know,
a lot of times the writer, you know, and everybody
in the academy works in the business, so it's not
like fans. It's not like pretend journalists like the Golden globes.
It's not you know, you know, it's it's working people

(15:41):
in the academy. So you know, the writers often will
say the writers will vote for the movie that they
wish they wrote, and so therefore, you know, you'll see
sometimes some odd movies that only appear there. Or why
do the directors vote for this not this? You know
they liked they you know, they appreciated the work of
this direct So then yeah, once the nominees are set,

(16:02):
then the entire academy votes on those.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
How many people are you talking about who in the
entire academy that would be voting, and then in any
of us STUB divisions, if the actors are choosing, how
many are we talking about hundreds? Thousands?

Speaker 3 (16:18):
I mean, I think it's thousands overall. The actor's branch
is the biggest one, and you know, the director's branches
is kind of smaller. The writer's branch, I think is smaller.
You know. The one thing Bruce also points out is
like the documentary is the only category where they literally
make every you know, it's a small group, but like

(16:41):
they make you watch every movie. You're not allowed to
not watch all the movies. You have to literally show up,
sign in and watch the movies and check them off.
And then it's the only one where everybody has seen
all the movies, except maybe, he jokes, in the animation category,
because everybody has kids and their kids want to see
the animated movies. They've probably seen those over the course

(17:02):
of the year. But yeah, you know, the different branches,
they differ in size, you know, actors being the most,
and you know, yeah, I think it's thousands overall. I know,
we started to talk about a breakdown on one of
one of the episodes, you know, but it ranges from
hundreds to two thousands.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
And they're registered in some way or that is by
the academy.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, I don't know the official entry process, but you
know they definitely, Yeah, there's definitely a process that they
go through. And you know, it's people in the industry,
you know oftentimes, I mean, I don't know how you
get around like conflict of interest, Like how do you
not vote for yourself? If you're in the cinematographers, you know, branch,
It's like, oh, I did a movie this year, but
I'm sure they have a you can't vote for yourself rule.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
And you make an interesting point that it really is
it's art and science, and some of the categories are
much more art and some are much more science. And
you can see, like in cinematography or sound design or
something like that, where that is you can put a
much more objective standard on that if somebody tried something
innovative or something like that. Do people discuss what their

(18:14):
thought processes on artistic matter of it? The I would
say best actors and those are definitely more of a subjective.
Is there anybody like dug into the inside or what
is your thought process on that of how is it
become very subjective and just sort of what the zeitgeist

(18:37):
of the time is.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
I think. So, I mean, look, you know, I make
a joke, Like you know, there was a there was
a sandwich list. Somebody had made a sandwich list of
the one hundred and one best sandwiches in New York.
And so I decided I was going to eat all
the one hundred and one best sandwiches. And then one
day I went to this deli and I tried. I
bought the sandwich that was on the list, but I

(19:00):
noticed the deli head at least one hundred sandwiches of
its own, and I'm like, okay, So then you're telling
me somebody ate all hundred of those sandwiches, then like
this one the best out of those hundred, and then
compared that to all the other sandwiches and all the
other delis and all the other places in the city. No,
somebody just said, hey, check out this sandwich. I think

(19:23):
it's good, and they took it and they said, yeah,
it is good. I'm gonna put it on my list. So,
like all the movies that come out that year, like
you can't watch everything and then really just sit and
like have an FBI chart with like who's the best.
It's in the zeitgeist. People start talking, things get buzz,
they watch the buzzy things and then decide from from that.

(19:44):
There's no way you can watch everything and you know,
compare every performance against each other. It's you know, it
doesn't it's impossible. So they watch certain movies, they don't watch.
They gravitate towards certain things. And that's why a lot
of times, you know, especially I found in the eighties,
like the most I don't know movies I don't even want,

(20:04):
like I have to go back and watch them for
the show, but it's like homework and I'm like, was
this really the best movie? I don't think so. But
it's what they, you know, at the Academy at that time,
gravitated towards and they thought it was good and they
and they gave it the accolades. So yeah, I mean,
I think with some of those artistic things, it's like
what's getting buzz? You know, those things rise to the

(20:27):
top and then they watch it and they say, yeah, okay,
I think it deserves it, and then they put their
vote down. You know, they're not trying to be Maverick
and watch some obscure thing that like nobody knows. And
you know, although sometimes it feels that way, like No
mad Land. But I'll tell you what. I watched No
mad Land and it was a beautiful movie, so I
you know, I get it. But you know, for the
most part, Yeah, I think it's what what has risen

(20:48):
to the top end the zeitgeist, and that's that's what
they're choosing from. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
I think you make a great point there, especially with
that sandwich thing, because that's something that we as just
regular people can go and task. They released the best
barbecue in the world basically in one of the places
is right near my house, and I was like, yeah,
I've had better, and there's better in this like the
general neighborhood in this place one mitchellin Stars and I

(21:14):
won't say the name because people probably figure out where
I live and then they'll figure out Hunted. But I
don't have any taste, but it really is. There is
such a subjective quality to these things that people place
so much value on.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean one of my favorite things to
do is to go back to a year, especially if
it's a year that I either before my time or
you know, before I really got into film watching, you know,
and it's like, Okay, what movie won, what movies were nominated,
and then what other movies came out that year, And

(21:49):
so many times I'm like, wait, that came out that
year and didn't get any love. We still talk about
that today. And one of the ones I love is
the is the nineteen sixty one Oscars for the Films
of nineteen sixty because and this was like a pinnacle
for me in knowing like, this is a show and
it's funny because I actually went to dinner with Bruce
before then, you know, before I even pitched them the

(22:11):
show idea. Bruce, myself and my business partner Jerry Kolber,
who knows Bruce as well. You know, the three of
us went out for dinner, and I brought up in
nineteen sixty, three movies came out. All three are currently
on the AFI, the American Film Institute's Top one hundred
American Films of all time. Three movies came out that

(22:33):
year that are on that list. Only one of them
was nominated for an Oscar. The other two didn't even
get nominated, and they are huge movies that if I mentioned,
you'd be like, wait, what, they didn't get nominated. And
then he started to explain to me why he thought
they didn't get nominated, and I started to go, okay,
but if I'm going back in my Quentin Tarantino revisionist
history time machine and changing the oscars, you know, I'm

(22:56):
going to put those movies in, and I'm going to
pull two movies out and that I haven't even heard of.
And so we started combating over steak in, you know,
in La Steakhouse, and you know, Jerry is like, Okay, okay, stop,
this is the show. This is the show. Stop it.
And just to just to fill you in, it's like, yeah,
the Apartment with Jack Lemon Billy Wildert movie won the

(23:18):
Oscar that year, great movie, no complaints. Other movies nominated,
Elmer Gantry, the Burt Lancaster movie, also a great movie,
and Burt Lancaster wins the Academy Award for that, and
then Sons and Lovers, The Sundowners and The Alamo starring
John Wayne or the other three nominees. So you're like, Okay,
I don't know if I've seen any of them. And

(23:40):
the Alamo isn't even like a top tier John Wayne movie.
And then okay, you start looking at other nominees. For
Best Director. One of the nominees was Alfred Hitchcock for
a little movie called Psycho, and you're like, wait, well,
Psycho came out that year. And then the Best Supporting
Actor was Peter euston Off for a little movie called Spartacus,
which also came out that year. So it's like e
were nominated. And then Bruce is like, aw, Spartacus is

(24:02):
a sword and sandal movie. There was a whole bunch
of them. Ben heard this one, that one. It's just
another sword and sandal movie. I'm like, okay, but we
still talk about Spartacus today. Okay, we still talk about
Psycho today. They remake Psycho, they made sequels, they made
a TV show that you know, it's in the zeitgeist.
And at the very least you should have nominated Anthony
Perkins for Norman Bates. It's one of the most iconic

(24:24):
parts of all time. So you know, that's the kind
of stuff we talk about.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Steve here with a quick word from our sponsors, and
that's a good thing because when you can look at
it retrospectively, like that you can look at it. It's a
movie like The Alamo. The Alamo was definitely the end
of an era of that sort of movie that was
almost like a play. Sword and Sandals were kind of
in their mid career, and then you have something like

(24:51):
Psycho that's completely innovative and that would define really the
next several decades of movies. And when you can been
to there, it's something that you couldn't necessarily see if
you were voting on those movies in nineteen sixty one.
But now with a little bit of perspective, and like
you've said in the in the podcast, and probably five

(25:13):
years later in the late sixties, you could have seen
that the Alamos style of movie was dead. Sword and
Sandals were fading out, and Fiko was the maybe one
of the greatest movies of all time top five. Most
people would probably say.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a fantastic movie. But
you know, Bruce was like it was probably a little
much for people. The crush dressing, the you know, using
a penis, I mean, a knife is a penis, and
and you know there's a lot you know killing I mean, look,
the you know killing off your star like a third

(25:52):
of the way or whatever into the movie. Oh that
took people by surprise. And I think John at Lee
was nominated. I don't know if she won, but you know,
so they did recognize that. But yeah, they thought it
was a gimmick film, you know, you know, interesting just
the time. And I'm like, look, I don't say it
has to win. I'm just saying, we're going to go

(26:12):
back and we're going to fix the oscars and I'm
going to put you know, I'm going to take the
Alamo out and I'm going to put Psycho in. Like,
so sue me, so sue me. I think most film
film watchers would would agree.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
So if you had to say with that there's problems
with the system or things that you could maybe fix
with the system of how movies are chosen, would you
change anything? Do you think that it works pretty well
for what it is.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Yeah, I don't know if there's anything to fix. I mean,
you know, it is interesting that there's like you know,
and brusse wl be the first one to say it too.
It's like, you know, we'll talk about a movie. I'll
say like die Hard for example, and I'll half joking
I know, Diehard isn't technically an Academy Award type of movie,

(26:59):
but and again, why not. Most action movies are terrible,
aren't terrible? This one is great, and it's the one
everybody knows and loves, and it's set off a whole
new way of doing action movies. Now it's die Hard
set here, Diehard set there, you know, and he pulled
off an amazing thing. And I'm like, I know it's
not an Academy movie, but like that's the thing, the term, Oh,

(27:23):
that's not an Academy Award movie, and this is. And
it's like, so what long and boring and slow is
Academy worthy and fun and exciting is not? And then
you know, it's funny because they expanded it from five
films to ten in large part because The Dark Knight
didn't get nominated and everybody loved that movie so much.

(27:43):
And then they expanded it to ten. And then the
next year it came out the nominees and a lot
of small, little movies were suddenly included. It wasn't what
the intended result. You thought you'd have a lot of big, crazy,
you know, actiony and big block three movies. No, suddenly
like a Simple Man from the Coen Brothers is nominated,

(28:05):
and like little small movies are finally getting there. Du So, yeah,
it's interesting. I don't know if there's a fix. I think,
you know, it's like the mindset of what you know,
this couldn't possibly be an Academy movie. I mean, maybe
you take that away. But look, it feels like they're
doing some of that too, you know some of the
movies that get nominated. You know, Joker got nominated and

(28:26):
you know, things like that. It's like it looks like
they're trying to expand a little bit into you know,
popular things that you know, people people saw as opposed
to just a bunch of like five movies where you know,
my mom is like, I don't know one of those.
I haven't seen any of those. You know, it'd be
nice to get away from that. So but as far

(28:46):
as fixing it, I don't. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
It could be interesting to try new categories, possibly, like
with Bruce Willis. You talked about this with Bruce balanchin
one of your episodes that it was really out of
left field. He was not an action actor at that point.
He was more of a kind of a sappy romance.
I don't remember exactly what I thought about that, but

(29:10):
thinking about it now in retrospect, that was a different
casting choice.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
One hundred percent. Look, I loved Moonlighting. I used to
watch it all the time. It reminded me, you know,
it's like the screwball comedies of the thirties and forties
and the fast talking, fast paced I mean, he was
great and then it's like, oh, he's going to be
in this action movie. And I remember seeing the commercials
for it and I was like, it looks cool. I
was in high school, I think, or yeah, I think

(29:38):
it was in high school, and I went to see
it with my friends and we weren't expecting much and
we walked out of the theater like, Wow, that was
one of the best action movies I think I've ever seen.
Like it was great the way Jaws. You know, it's
like it's a shark movie. It's you know, a monster movie.
It eats people. And then you like watch the movie
and you're like, that was like one of the best
movies I think I've ever seen. You know, it just

(29:59):
felt like a great movie and and you know, yeah,
I was not expecting that at all, Like, you know, Okay,
they're gonna, you know, prop up a guy who, you know,
make a guy who's not tough seem tough. Oh no,
he was great. So that's why I say, like, you know,
why don't we recognize some of that, like recognize what
he did, Recognize what Alan Rickman did as the bad
guy redefined you know, how sinister you can be and

(30:23):
smart and you know, I mean, he's such a good actor.
So yeah, I don't know. I like shining a light
on movies that never get mentioned when you think of
the Academy Awards.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
There's one that's just fresh in my mind because I
was just talking about this movie La Confidential, and one
of the things that really stuck out with the people
we were talking to about it was the fabulous acting
from all the leads and none of them, hale leads
got a nomination for that. It was only Ken Basinger,
who did an excellent job as well. But heard role

(30:55):
was pretty it was very important, but it was pretty
minimal as well. And I think that that was one
if you were to revisit, it would be totally different.
I'm not sure who they were up against either. In
nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, and you know what, you can't use that crutch
that Bruce uses all the time. It's well, that was
a career award. You know, so many times I'll say, like,
why did this person win this this acting award and
not you know, this great performance. Well it was a
career award. They felt like, all right, Kim Masinger didn't
need a career award, you know. In fact, you know,

(31:29):
I think, can you name another movie where you're like, oh, yeah,
you're amazing in nine and a half weeks, Like you know,
what do you you know? No, you look, she's not bad,
but you know, yeah, I'd have to look at the
other nominees and the other movies, but I'm sure, I'm
sure we'd find something better.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, what are some ones that really stand out to
you where you would you would have totally picked some
a different winner altogether. There's some ones that really are
stuck in your cra I.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
Mean, look, there's a lot of the big one, you know.
I mean, look, ordinary people, great movie, but Raging Bull,
come on, you know, And I remember when, yeah, Raging
Bull won like the best film of the decade. Like
I went to the movies in like eighty nine to
see Raging Bull on the big screen because it had

(32:19):
you know, it had been awarded the best film of
the decade. So then it's like hilarious that the best
film of the decade didn't win the Oscar of the Year.
It came out like weird things like that, you know, obviously,
Saving Private Ryan losing to Shakespeare in Love, you know,
like okay, and I know the Harvey of it all
and the lobbying that went on, but really, you know,

(32:43):
Goodfellas losing to Dances with Wolves, although I will say
Dances with Wolves is quite an achievement, but it is
hilarious to think, like until Scorsese won the Oscar for Departed,
Like Kevin Costner had more Oscars than Martin Scorsese, you know,
and he kept losing to directors like that, he lost
to Robert Redford for Best Director with Raging Bull versus

(33:06):
Ordinary People. And it's just like these actors come on,
they directed a movie, they have like one or two credits,
and then they win the Oscar and one of the
greatest directors of all time, you know, and then you
know it's just funny, like you know, al Pacino winning
for Scent of a Woman, Okay, but but the guy
had never won an oscar. It's like you can go
to al Pacino's house and not see an oscar. That

(33:27):
feels criminal, So of course they had to give it
to him. And it's just like unfortunate, Like it's you know,
if you're ranking al Pacino performances, sent to the woman
is probably not the top one. So it just shows like, yeah,
the arbitrary nature. And you know, sometimes they do award
career things. Sometimes there's you know, okay, I better, we
better give Paul Mimman this award because he doesn't have one,

(33:48):
you know, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
I would honestly love to see an Oscars or some
sort of award ceremonial that's maybe two, five, ten years later,
and so that you could have a little bit more
objectivity on it, even if it was the same people
who are the judges. That could be interesting to see
of what they think of a movie, you know, from

(34:09):
the mid nineties or the early two thousand is what
they think rises to the top.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
I mean, who knows, they probably still get it wrong. Like,
you know, it's hard to say. Again, it's it's so subjective.
It's like people vote what they like and you know,
there's you know, like I said, I look at the
subreddits now for the Oscars to see what people were
talking about, and they'll you know, they'll say like, oh,
this movie won, but it was a really strong year.

(34:38):
And then I'm looking at the movies that are on
the you know, the nominees, and I'm like, a strong
year really, because like I don't love any of these movies.
So then I realized, yeah, I have my taste. They
have their taste. You know, everybody's taste is different. So
I mean that's the fun part of it. I mean,
I'm not trying to say this needed to win and
this needed to lose. I'm just saying, like, looking through

(34:59):
the test of time, which movies do we really remember
and care about from that year and which movies could
maybe have been considered or just it's just cool to
talk about, you know, you know, cool movies, cool performances,
great directing, great camera work. You know. So yeah, and
you know, like I just saw the remake of the

(35:19):
Nasharatu and it just reminded me of how good like
Francis wood Couple as Dracula was. I loved it, and
how good Gary Oldman was and I was like, you know,
I just I love and just like did that get nominated?
You know, let me look it up, you know, and
it's like probably not.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Are there some what are some years that come out
in your mind that were just particularly strong years for
movies that a dozen movies came out that were just
hop notch. A couple of years come to my mind.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Well, I will say this, the best decade by far
is the seventies. Like you look at the seventies and
you look at these matchups and who loses, who wins,
and you're like, whatever toss up, Like even in the
weakest of the years, you know, Kramer versus Kramer beats
Apocalypse now, but still those are two great movies. It

(36:13):
is kind of cool that the small you know, the
small you know, human drama wins over the gigantic War Spectacle.
But you know, they're both great movies. But like the
seventies were just you know between you know, A Day
Afternoon and The Godfathers and Rocky and Star Wars and
Jaws and you know, all these movies came out during

(36:34):
that decade, and like having to pick one over the other,
it's like, you know that that's going to be the toughest,
you know, in a way, because it's like, yeah, they
kind of get it right. In the seventies, I would say,
is super strong. You know. Look, you know there's there's
certain decades. You know, even early on thirties and forties,

(36:56):
you know, there was a lot of really strong contenders.
I got really into film noir and I've over the pandemic.
I was watching lots of film nowar movies from the
forties fifties, and I was happy to see a bunch
of them did get nominated, Like The Killers with barn
what is it birdlan Caster, Ava Gardner, Like, I was like,
that was a great movie, and oh yeah I got nominated.

(37:18):
Oh cool. You know, every year has strong contenders, I
would say, but yeah, a lot of times you're just like, wait,
et lost, why this is the best movie? You know,
really you're gonna give it to you know, I think Gandhi.
I don't know if that was the Gandhi year or
the Chariots of Fire year. And I mean I remember

(37:39):
as a kid, to me, you know, I was, you know,
kid of the eighties. To me, the Oscars were like
were they just given award to a long boring movie?
That I didn't want to see. It wasn't until I
think Platoon one where I was like, finally, finally a
movie I liked, you know, wins an Oscar. Oh wow,
you can do that.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Steve here again with a quick word from our sponsors.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
That is the interesting thing is that sometimes these movies
that are really challenging and that should win an award
maybe aren't the most entertaining, especially broadly entertaining, where something
like platwo and you get a balance of both of
them in there, and it's great directing and great scenery,
like the whole thing is great, and it was entertaining

(38:26):
as well.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, I mean I will say this too. It's like
it's funny. And I don't know if I've mentioned this
on the show yet, but I'm a huge list guy,
as you can tell from the sandwiches. I love making
lists of movies in genres or categories or whatever. So
I have my film noir list, I have my Western list,
I have my horror list, I have you know, foreign

(38:50):
movies list. You know, all these different lists. The one
that's the most tedious, the one that's the hardest one
for me to check off, is always the Oscars Best
you know, Best Picture winners for a lot of them,
especially from the eighties on, and even the nominees, and
it's just like a lot of movies. I'm like, okay,
it's like homework movies. And it is literally homework now

(39:13):
because for the podcast. But you know, it's not the
movies I gravitate towards. It's it's it's a lot of stuff.
And then yeah, I started to make a list of
starting with the seventies. It's like you take the winners
and you say, is this a must see movie? Is
this a should see? Or is this a yeah, you

(39:33):
don't have to And like if I was talking to
like my daughter who's twenty and trying to educate her
on films that were, you know, made before she was born,
and if I was making the list, Okay, you got
to see this one, you got to see this one,
you got to see this one. Every movie in the seventies,
that one is a must see. The eighties two or
three must sees, maybe three or four Mussies. Then you

(39:54):
get into the two thousands and nineties. In the two thousands,
and it's like it goes way down. It's like in
the two Thames. I think there was like one movie
that I thought was like a must see movie. The
rest I'm like, yeah, don't worry about it. So it's like,
I don't know, it's gotten worse maybe, or.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
I think that's a great metric. That's something that I'll
often do in some of our other co hosts do
our little have Fildrin like in the late teens twenties,
has had them watch a movie and see what they think,
because it can be oftentimes hard when it's a movie
you saw when you were that age and it really
stuck with you. And then they watch and they're like,
that's the most dated thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like the BCE and
you know is cell phones. You know, it's like before
cell phones and after cell phones is like, you know,
my daughter will watch any movie that came before cell phones,
and so many of the problems in the movie or whatever,
it could be solved if they just had a cell phone,
and it's like, okay, okay, but they was not cell phones.

(40:54):
You have to just you know, put that aside. But yeah,
I mean it's great when I introducer to an older movie.
Taxi driver she loved loved Taxi Driver, loved Fight Club,
loved Goodfellas, loved you know, and these, you know, none
of them, none of them won, you know. So it's
like it's interesting, you know, uh you know, yeah, trying

(41:15):
to get somebody younger to see to see stuff and
what resonates I mean, she love Back to the Future
and then watch the sequels, loved it, wanted to go
see the musical, like yeah, you know it's it's it's
an enchanting movie. And you think that, like it was
the number one box office movie that year. People loved it.
It's in the zeitgeist. We still say flux capacitor, we
still think of a DeLorean as a time machine league

(41:37):
all these things that it brought to the table, Like,
that's to me a best movie quality. No one's talking
about Out of Africa.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Sorry, And I can kind of see why that one,
and particularly went Back to the Future and Out of Africa.
Out of Africa was such like a huge set piece
and it had the right actors in it. And I'm
boring where the the Back to the Future really was
like it was. I think maybe it was a little

(42:07):
too pop, a little too hitchy. I don't know. Like,
I think I could see why that one even though
it was really well acted, there was a lot of
things going for it that maybe it's and it was
also in way innovative for the time of pop side
by kind of movie.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah. Absolutely. But here's the thing. It doesn't have to win.
It didn't get nominated, is what I'm saying, Like for
Best Picture, you know, I mean did get nominated, think
for screenplay, which it lost to Witness. Uh you know
the Amish Harrison Ford hanging out with the honor.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, that was pretty good. Pretty good.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
If I'm a writer and I'm like, I could write
one of two movies. Do I want to write Witness
or do I want to write Back to the Future,
I know which one O'm writing? If I had that power, uh,
you know. And then you know, he got like a
nominated for like a sound thing, you know, and that's it.
So you know, again, it doesn't have to win. But
just put it in there, you know, it's it's you

(43:05):
know in my mind, you know, And that's the front
of the show. And Brust will tell me why I'm
an idiot.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
As far as lists go, do you think there's a
particular genre that has either been over represented or underrepresented
nominations and wins.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
I mean, look the the genres that never get enough attention.
I think obviously, comedy, horror, you know, are are always
very underrepresented. And then they love the Yeah they love
the big tear jerker, they love the big location thing.
You know, these days it's tough to say, you know,

(43:44):
they they love things that maybe have some nostalgia or
or hark to you know, Hollywood or you know, now
it's it's issues. You know, they love that stuff. You know,
they do love historical stuff, which is cool and like
if if historical thing is done in a fun way,
I mean, you know, Mel Gibson kind of. But I

(44:05):
love Braveheart. That was a great movie. Halfway through I
was like, man, this is a good movie and this
is really well directed and I am enjoying the hell
out of this. And then when it won, I was like, wow, Okay,
another one where like a movie I loved actually won
the Oscar. But yeah, horror, you know, horror and uh
and comedy. And that's why you only see you know,

(44:26):
the actors will nominate, you know, for Best Supporting Actor
or Actress. That's where the comedian usually gets in there,
you know, a Kevin Klein for Fish Koled Wanda mursa
Tomme Winning for you know, my cousin Vinnie. You know,
that's where like the comedy people are uh you know,
now people are wondering, like, you know, the Substance is
a cool movie and got some great performances. Will they

(44:46):
will they reward any of that? I don't know, We'll see,
you know, but yeah, those are the two underrated ones,
uh or underrepresented ones. Is the horror in the comedy,
you know. And I still have a couple of you
know what I think are going to be nominees. I
I'll have to see a couple couple of things. But
like you know, like I saw Heretic and Q Grant
is awesome in it. Like it's not a great movie,

(45:08):
but it's you know, it's fun enough, and he is
just phenomenal. Like do they recognize that or not? I
don't know. I mean he's also a big name guy
doing something very against type. So do you know, does
that play or not? Or is it like come on,
that was a silly movie. We're not gonna We're not
gonna you know, we're not gonna feature it, you know,

(45:28):
So it's it's interesting, you know. I mean, obviously they
expanded the Best Pictures to ten. We're back to ten.
You know, it used to be it was five, there
was ten, that was five again, then ten. You know.
So sometimes yeah, movies can sneak in there and Bruce
is you know, they'll say, like, look, they there's movies
that have no shot. You know, everybody's going to vote
for one of these top two or three movies and

(45:48):
then everybody else is the afterthought. But at least they
were nominated.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
That is an interesting thing to see, Like, especially from
as the end each year, are looking for nominees of
an actor who's maybe tried something that's really outside a character.
And is that the thing that grabs people's attention or
is it the huge set piece and the thing that

(46:13):
the movie that does what it's exactly supposed to do.
That could really change from year to year and how
people are thinking and what other movies are out there.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Sure, yeah, I mean it's like there's one of two things.
It's like, yeah, somebody doing something really pushing themselves. I mean,
you know, it became the joke. It's like, you know,
i mean, look, DiCaprio finally wins for a role in
which you know, this guy was suffering the whole movie
in the cold and uh you know the physicality of it.
But he could have been nominated for a I mean

(46:43):
one for a whole bunch of movies. You know. His
acting is always like top notch, you know, and then
like sometimes somebody does the big speech. You know, it's
like they come on and they do the big speech,
and it's like, yep, that got them the oscar. You know,
you never know what it is that they're looking for again,
and I think is very zeitgeist. What are people talking about, uh,

(47:04):
you know, great performance uh in a movie that's that's
talked about, like will rise to the top? Uh? You know,
I just saw Anora, the Sean Baker movie, and yeah,
she's great. She steals every scene. She she's fantastic. While
all the other actors are great in that too. You know,
you could nominate almost any of those supporting actors, uh

(47:24):
for a supporting role because they were all fantastic. And
that's why the movie is so good, is because the
whole ensemble is fantastic. H And to single out one
or over the other, you know, I don't know, but
the point is, yeah, she's great, she should get nominated.
Will she win? I don't know, Uh, you know, it's
also a goofy movie, so you know, does that you know,

(47:44):
does that does that register with them? Or you know,
but it did win you know the palmd'or so you
know that gives it the cachet that they could say, well.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Right, I would definitely recommend people go listen to your
podcast with Bruce Blanche the Oscar What were they thinking?
Because I know I've just been listening to them and
binging them and thoroughly enjoying them. As maybe an one
last question and then you can share how to find
the podcast is how do you balance like when you're

(48:14):
planning these is there just a year that you both say, oh,
we got to talk about nineteen sixty three or nineteen
seventy eight, especially when we're getting into Oscar season. Is
we're probably right in the heart of it as we're
recording in December of twenty twenty four, and then they'll
really start talking about it in the new year, and
then when the actual show comes along. Are you going

(48:37):
to be really focused on what's happening right now or
are you going to stay focused on some of the
old older movies. I'm kind of interested in how you
balance that because there's a lot of fodder there.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Right. Well, obviously we want to cover every year. I
try to bounce around. I don't want to have like,
I don't want to just pick a decade and do
every year in a row. So it's not that surprising.
I like to bounce around, so i'll you know, Also,
like I said, you know, Bruce worked on the show
for twenty five years, So our first episode was the
nineteen eighty nine Oscars because it also was Bruce's first

(49:11):
year working on the show. So we started with that,
even though it's not like necessarily one of those controversial years,
but it gave us good insight into how Bruce got hired,
what it was like. There was no host that year,
so it was like a weird thing. The show itself
was a little bit of a disaster, so there was
some fun stuff. The producer wound up getting, you know,

(49:32):
never got to do another Oscars because of the fiasco.
So yeah, there was a lot of fun stuff. So
I picked that that was in the eighties. Then we
jumped into the two tens, Then we jumped back to
the seventies, I think, or the eighties again then we
went to the sixties. So I like to jump around.
As far as this year's Oscars, it's hilarious because like
you know, marketing, you know, they want me to you know,

(49:53):
want us to do shows based on the nominees and
based on the winners, and I'm like, that's not our show.
Our show is too you know, we don't care about
this year's Oscars. Qubbly in ten years, I'll care about
this year's Oscars. But because people are gonna be searching Oscars,
we want them to find our show through searching for
the Oscar. So we we're definitely going to do an
episode where we where we react to the nominees, and

(50:16):
then we're going to do a post after the Oscars.
We're going to do our you know show that just
talks about the winners and and you know, recap what
happened and what our thoughts are on that. So we're
definitely going to touch on this year's uh this upcoming
Oscars for this year, but you know more so, yeah,
I like to just bounce around, and you know, there's

(50:37):
obviously the big years that everybody talks about, but then
I love the Little Hidden Years where nobody's talking about
but oh, was this really the best movie? Did the
French connection really deserve to win over you know, Doug
or whatever if I forget exactly, but you know, it's like,
you know, there's some great matchups and there's some great
like huh, you know, and then there's the chin Scratchers
where you're just like, how the hell did they you know,

(50:59):
why it wasn't It doesn't Kane didn't win, but it's
like known as the best film of all time. You know,
they're not showing how green is my valley in film school.
So it's like, you know, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I think your show is entertaining, but I think you're
with having Bruce Valanche there, you're capturing a lot of
institutional knowledge that this could become something that people study
in the future because the stories that he throws out
and just the knowledge that he has of how the
sausage was made is really huge.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Yep, Bruce loves sausage.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
If people want to find your show, where can they
find there?

Speaker 3 (51:33):
You can find it on Spotify or Apple or anywhere
you get podcasts. It's the Oscars. What were they thinking

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Beyond the Red Carpet: The Oscar Decisions That Shocked Us