Mafia Moviemaking: The High-Stakes Gamble of The Godfather (1972)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Beyond the Big Screen Podcast with your host
Steve Guera. Thank you for listening to Beyond the Big
Screen podcast, where we talk about great movies and stories
so great they should be movies. Find show notes, links
to subscribe and leave Apple podcast reviews by going to

(00:23):
our website Beyond the Big Screen dot com. And now
let's go Beyond the Big Screen.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Let's dive right into Chris the making of the actual
movie The Godfather. Let's set that up a little bit
and dive right in.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
To set the stage a bit, we have to understand
that the Paramount wasn't the successful company that.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
It is now.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Paramount very easily could have gone out of business at
the time of the pre production of The Godfather, just
they had a bunch of string of box office bombs
like Paint Your Wagon was a box office bomb that
went over budget. Charles blue Dorn, he poured tons of
money in Manpower in another film called His Paris Burning,

(01:10):
which didn't do very well at the box office either,
like he hired like gore Vidal and I read a
little bit. I I didn't watch the movie. I read
a little bit about it, and I'm like it. It
seems like they spent a lot of money and they
put a lot of work into it. I actually kind
of interested in seeing that movie now. And Waterloo was
another film that they did, which was it was generally

(01:33):
well received but had a big, bloated budget and became
a box office bomb. Just kind of as a side
note for film geeks from what I was reading, apparently
it's because of Waterloo is the reason why we never
got Stanley Kubrick's Napoleon movie because no studio would touch
it because the Waterloo movie had lost so much money.

(01:58):
Just to kind of set the stage, now, you guys
gonna like understand the pressure that many of the main
players are under during the making of this film, because
if it failed, it really could have meant like the
one sproud studio of the Paramount may have been done.
I don't know, did you guys know that Paramount was
like in that dire straits like leading up to the
filming of The Godfather.

Speaker 5 (02:21):
I had no idea, and I always thought of them
as very successful, you know studio, and they've made some
some of my favorite movies. So that blows my mind
that they were a whisper away from being out of business.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
It makes sense though now that you say it, Like
Paramount did Star Trek, which was right about it, this
a little bit before this time, so they were taking
a chance on a really weird sci fi epic that
really wasn't a thing at that time, like that sort
of social commentary sci fi.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
So that kind of makes sense now though, Yeah, I didn't.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, I didn't realize until I really started researching at
just how diret was. Charles Blue Blue Dorn, who's quite
a character himself, basically saved the company and he was
like a guy that like he sold like car parts.
He was like a business magnet, and that's how he
kind of got started with selling like aftermarket like car

(03:22):
parts and buying up like factories that were kind of
going out of business and being able to turn a
profit with him. And he wanted to be don't I
think he liked the attention of buying a studio like Paramount,
But at the end of the day, he was like
a businessman, so he really wanted to turn it around.
If he hadn't shown up, knows, gone out of business.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
So then how do we get Mario Puzo Wrights the
wrote this book, and it's unusual that he was brought
on to write the script. So maybe you can tell
us a little bit about this whole process of taking
this pretty big book and then turning it into a screenplay.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, so Mario Puzzo, he was he was a Yeah,
he was hired to write the script for the film,
which was at the time, was an odd choice. It
still is really an odd choice because generally studios didn't
really hire authors because write, as Frank will tell you,
it's a different skill set, right, Like you to write
a screenplay and write a novel. It's two different things really,

(04:27):
Like that's why a lot of like directors will also
write their own screenplays because they're filmmakers. They understand like
how to write a screenplay and how it works and
what have you. But Al Raddy, who we had talked
about on the previous I'm sorry earlier and wanted Mario

(04:50):
Puzo to write the script. So he was hired to
write the script. But as the studio was worried about
Mario Puzzo had never written this before.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
I didn't even know how to didn't even know how
to start it.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
You know, for weeks he just didn't write anything. I mean,
this is something that also followed Mario Puzo his entire life,
where you know, he was a very talented writer, but
the work ethic was not there all the time, you
know he was.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
It seems very much kind of like an art to
like an artist.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Right where it's just he gets a clash of inspiration
and then everything comes out at once. You know, he
doesn't seem like the type of guy like I'm going
to grind out. They grind out the work and then
you know, chisel around the edges type thing. After a
few weeks of this, they actually brought Francis Workupola on
to help them with writing the screenplay, and they worked
together for a bit and then they went their kind

(05:45):
of separate ways, writing their separate screenplays, but always kind
of keeping in touch during the entire process. Took the
months to finish the screenplay to you know, kissing off
Bob Evans and others at Paramount. The screenplay was finally

(06:05):
finished on March twenty ninth, nineteen seventy one, at a
massive one hundred and sixty five pages, almost forty more
than what Evans in Paramount wanted, and believe it or not,
more was written at the time of the filming because
the script wasn't fully done yet, No.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
One hundred and six.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I don't know. I've never really sat down and read screenplays,
so I don't one hundred and sixty five pages seems
like a lot, and I chosen the film. The film's
almost three hours, so you know you're gonna imagine like
the studio you're saying, like they want something that's like
forty pages less, and they show up with this after

(06:44):
waiting months of getting nothing, and Mario, who'sa not writing
anything for weeks.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
I mean, I get it, like i'd I'd be curious too,
you know.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
I think we got to kind of put ourselves in
the shoes that the people at the time right were like,
we know that The Godfather is going to be this
huge box office success with like two other films, but
at the time they didn't know that. You know, they're
trying to run a studio here.

Speaker 5 (07:10):
An average screenplay, you know, is anywhere between ninety one
hundred and twenty pages, and it is a different style
of writing. And in fact, most most novelists will who
have been through the process, will tell you that you
shouldn't adapt your own work. And some of the reasons

(07:30):
that they give. As you know, obviously it's a different format,
but also because it's a different format, different aspects of
the story are going to be neat, are going to
be and it's going to be important for them to
be highlighted, highlighted, and the method in which you highlight
them might be different. And you know somebody who is
a director or a you know, screenwriter, and often you know,

(07:55):
some of the directors aren't both. You know, they'll see
the story that way, and you know, a lot of
times novels aren't able to novelists aren't able to do that.
And then, of course the other thing is the story
has to be pared down. I mean, even an eighty
thousand word novel, you know, you can't shoot the whole thing.
It'd be a four hour movie, you know whatever, And

(08:17):
so you have to pare it down to its core elements.
And that's hard enough to do. From your first draft
of the novel to the final draft of the novel.
You kill a lot of darlings along the way, and
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to do
that for film, all the things that you'd need to
leave out. So I'm kind of I was surprised when

(08:37):
you told us that Mario Puzo was was asked to
do the screenplay, particularly since he hadn't done any before.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Not to go too far afield, but there was a
I think it was just a made for A and
E movie on Moby Dix, darring ethan Hawk. It came
out maybe ten fifteen years ago, but I thought that
was I mean, obviously Herman Melville wasn't involved in the
making of the screenplay, but that one, if anybody goes

(09:05):
out there, I think you can get it on the
streaming services like hot Moby Dick to the just to
what it was like the essentials to make a movie.
I thought for a movie that was essentially it made
for TV movie. That's one of the that one like
sticks out in my mind more than anything of a
movie that whoever wrote the screenplay took that massive novel

(09:28):
and sliced it down to its absolute essentials into about
a two hour movie. It really wasn't even recognizable in
the book except for the very broadest strokes.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
That sounds interesting.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
I might watch that because I've always been scared to
read Moby Dick, just because I've heard there's huge sections
of the book just talking about I don't know, whaling,
Like I get it, but it just doesn't seem like
something i'd like be struggling to get through type things
that get to the point, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, that's half of the book was a nonfiction book
about whaling. And I think that for Puzzo to get us,
you know, to kind of er us back onto the
courses that Mario Puzo put in a lot of other
material into that novel that it's pretty amazing that he

(10:19):
was able to trim that out. I don't want to
call it trim the fat, because I think a lot
of that stuff and the novel was interesting and obviously
clearly he wrote it, so he thought it was interesting,
but he was able to see that that was not
an essential element for a film.

Speaker 5 (10:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Well, Francis had a big part of that too, in
terms of being able like they both did it together right,
So it's not like, well, like, oh it was, Francis
was the genius behind it. It's like, no, Francis has
helped in terms of Mario being able to focus on
like the essentials of what made The Godfather novel such
a great novel and being able to translate that onto

(11:00):
a screen, right, Like Frances couldn't have done it by
himself because these were all all the characters are Mario's characters, right,
you know, and they're all accurately depicted in the film too. Right.
It's not like France has changed up like a ton.
It just helped Mario being able to write a screenplay
and focus on on the essentials, you know, less of

(11:24):
the fluff that's in the book.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
Well, and I wouldn't even call it fluff. I would
just but I would say, you hit it on the
head when you say the essentials, I mean you have
to find what the what are the bones of this story?
You know, what is this story about it? It's core
and that is what every scene and every line by
every character has to focus on because we don't have
time or anything else. And I mean I can sit

(11:48):
here and say that as a writer who's written you know,
forty books. I can't say it as anybody who's ever
written a screenplay, so I can. You know, I don't
know how hard that is to do that because I
haven't I've ever done it, but I do know people
who have, and I've read up on it, and I've
never attempted it because of how difficult I think it

(12:09):
would be to pare it down to that level. But
point of record there, Steve, I do think that Herman
Melville got an executive producer credit on that show.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
So from the grade, now, Chris, maybe we can talk
a little bit about some of the issues. This is
a fictional story about the Mafia, but that doesn't mean
that the real life mafia doesn't get involved.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Oh yeah, Like, right from the get go, the Mob
was involved in the novel. You know, they weren't very
happy about it, and right off the bat, as soon
as like the the genesis of this film was coming about,
the Mob was right and involved, in particular a gentleman
named Jokel but we've talked about in our previous episode

(13:03):
and is an Italian civil rights league. We talked a
little bit about their involvement in the Godfather film, but
we didn't really go into much detail. We're going to
go into a little bit more detail here. Like I
pointed out, Joe Colombo, along with many others in the Mob,
were just about the Godfather book. If you the book

(13:23):
as a racist towards Italians. I'm playing on stereotypes that
followed the Italians ever since arriving in the USA. Will Now,
I will say that some of this is true, how
it still persists to this day, which isn't fair. But
I will say there's there's an undeniable link between the
mafia and the Italian community, right, There's no there's no

(13:46):
Italian mob without the Italian community, right, There's people probably
get upset about that, but I mean there's a little
bit of truth in a lot of stereotypes. So but
we talked about in that movie that Couldn't Shoot Straight,
And if you guys just see that movie and it's like,
I totally get where a lot of Italians were coming from.

(14:09):
Where it's just like this is too much man, Like
you guys are you guys are making way too much
fun of us.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
You talked about it on that Steve right.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
I mean for sure that you can see, especially in
this time period of the late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies,
that civil rights leagues are popping up everywhere. And so
whether Joe Colombo was just it was completely cynical, or
he really did believe that Italians were being smeared in

(14:41):
some way, he had the muscle to actually do something
about changing the course of a film like this. Steve.
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Speaker 5 (15:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Well, also like Frank Sinatra was also like very upset
about the book and the potential movie too, because he
it was widely believed that the character Johnny Fontaine was
based on him, and Frank felt that disassociation between him
and Johnny made him look like a sexual degenerate, like
a weak little cry baby. I mean as up to

(15:38):
you guys to decide. Like, I've read a little bit
about Frank Sinatra, and I don't think that's too far
of a I don't think that's too far off base.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
So I mean.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Who Frank actually was. Yeah, and Frank pushed Frank Sinatra.
He pushed hard on Joe Clumbo and others to stop
the movie from being made. He actually pushed so hard
that his friends and the mob and the mob adjacent
friends began to turn on them because they were just
annoyed with them. They're like just get away from it,
like I'm sick of sick of hearing about this. And yeah,

(16:16):
and according to h this is where I'm not exactly
sure if this happened or not, but I'm gonna go
with it happened because it's a cool story. According to Already,
Joe Columbo friend to use his Teamsters connections.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
To make the to make the movie impossible to make.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
And honestly, if Joe Columba had done this, he would
have it would have been impossible to make because Joe
Columba had all his ties into the Teamsters unions and
the Without the Teamsters union and their labor, you wouldn't
been able to just simply would not have been able
to physically make this movie. And so Ready set up

(16:58):
a meeting with Joe Columba at his office apparently write
in Paramount No Less and Joe had been demanding to
read the script so he could read it, and which
Ruddy was struggling to provide because Mario, as we talked
about earlier, Mario and Coppola were having a hard time
getting anything done. So he ended up getting his hands

(17:22):
on an unfinished script and gave it to Colombo to read.
And apparently two so he had two henchmen with him,
you know, two thugs or what have you. And Colombo
was there and they're all in the office and he
gives them the script, and apparently Joe Columbo sits there
and he stares at it for a bit and then
he hands it to one of his thugs to read.

(17:44):
He looks at it and he's struggling to read it,
and he hands it to the other thug and he's
struggling to read it, and Joe Colombo gets all pissed off.
He's like, oh, you guys are idiots. You don't know
what you're doing. And he grabs the script again and
he sits down he's going to read it. And then
he asked, al right, He's like, what does fade in mean?
And yeah, alright, he said, they're explaining so well, this

(18:06):
is what it means, like in terms, they're writing a screenplay.
And then apparently just like gets rid of the script
and basically says, you know what I think, your stand
up guy. He's like, the only thing I'm asking out
of you guys, if you can take the word mafia
out of the out of the script. It's a dirty word.
It just smirches all us Italians and now was like,

(18:26):
no problems, Joe, I can get that done for you.
And not knowing for sure how many times the word
mafia was actually used in the in the screenplay, he
ends up asking Francis later. France is like, oh, I
think we only use it like once or twice. So
he's like, it's okay if we take it out right,
He's like, oh, yeah, no problem. So he basically got

(18:47):
like that you did support and the mob support by
taking I don't know, the mafia out of the script
two times. Another example of like Joe Lumbo kind of
directly getting involved in the movie the famous wedding scene.
So they had secured that guy's house the film, and

(19:09):
Francis had seen the house and he thought it was perfect,
and then he backed out of it later. I guess
maybe pressure from maybe other Italians not wanting this movie
to get made. Apparently Joke Columbo showed up to this
guy's house and you know, gave him an offer he
couldn't refuse a type thing, and that's how they were

(19:34):
able to secure that, you know, the house for that
famous wedding sequence is probably one of the greatest sequences
ever filmed in world cinema history. Yeah, you know, according
to Already, he's indirectly used Joe Columbo's muscle to make
sure that they.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
Got that house.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, that's like the more like kind of directly involved
in it. And according to Already, him and Joe Lumbo
had like a pretty good friendship, you know, like he
invited them over for dinner and they were like friends,
you know, and people around Ready were telling them, was like,
this guy's a ruthless, like head of a mob family,

(20:14):
Like what are you doing? And I guess, I guess
maybe they got along. I get maybe being a producer
and you know, in a big Hollywood studio and you know,
ahead of a mob family, there's probably probably a lot
of things they would have in common.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
It's interesting to me how they went to such lengths
to try to stop this movie, and yet it's like
a favorite movie of all the Sopranos characters and you know,
all kinds of Italian Americans today. My dad's half Italian
and he loves this movie. It's one of his favorite movies.
It's just it's kind of interesting that they work so

(20:48):
hard to stop it, and then it became this iconic
movie that kind of met something else than what they
thought it was going to mean. When they tried to
stop it.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well, I think a lot of the guys, like higher
up in the family were like worried about in the families,
We're worried about the attention that this movie in the
book was bringing to the mafia, in the sense of
the whole idea of the Mafia is you don't want
attention brought onto it, right, Like you want it to
be secret. You don't want people knowing about it, you
don't want people talking about it. But once they saw

(21:20):
the popularity of the movie, and it's to a degree,
it made these guys not look so bad. They're like, oh, yeah,
this movie's great.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
It's like, yeah, we're just like kind of running a
family and you know, like my grandpa's like used to
run like an olive oil business, and like we're totally
not involved in drugs. And you know, didn't you see
the Godfather movie, Like my Courtle Oonne was involved in drugs.
It was just gambling. And you know he's a good
guy too, Like look he was he saved his family,
and it makes them somewhat look they they look ruthless,

(21:51):
but not as bad, like not as bad as they
actually are, Like they looked. You can almost kind of
root for these guys, right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (22:01):
They highlights two values that I think people really identify with.
One is family. It definitely highlights family. And the other
is honor. You know, I mean, especially Don Corleone, he
exemplifies the idea of honor. And you pointed out that,
you know, I don't want him selling drugs. I don't

(22:24):
want to sell in next to schools, you know, all
this kind of stuff that the people can can latch
onto as being honorable even though he's doing all these
other terrible things. And so those two values, I mean
a lot of people have those two values. They may
manifest differently, but those are values people hold dear. And
so when you display those values even under the conditions

(22:46):
that you wouldn't find acceptable, you know, as behaviors and situations,
but the values are still attractive, you find yourself, you know,
I mean still attract I mean we talked we did
an episode on the Day and Burry Trashers a little
while back, and we talked about Jimmy Galante, who, by
all accounts, I mean, he confessed to a bunch of crimes,

(23:08):
and he was accused of more, but you know, to
use your term, Chris, he was a stand up guy, right.
He did not roll over on anybody, not on his kid,
not on his employees, and certainly not on his mob associations.
And as much as he was kind of a you know,
not an admirable person on paper, it was kind of
hard not to have a little bit of admiration for

(23:31):
him as you were watching this documentary that we talked about,
And so it's almost involuntary as a as an emotional
reaction that we're hardwired for. So when you watch The
Godfather and you equate that to people who might actually
be in the mob, that there's some transference there that happens.
And it's kind of hard not to feel a certain

(23:51):
way about Don Corleone, especially when he's playing with his
grandson and you know, all these other images that Coppola
really does such a great job shooting. I totally you know,
understand why people love it now, and so that's why
it's even funnier to me how hard they tried to
just you know. And then the other thing is is

(24:13):
everybody knows the you know, the harder you try to
shut something down or keep it from happening, or make
it be quiet. The more people want to find out
what it is and why you're trying to shut it
down and make it be quiet, you know. I mean,
Married with Children probably wouldn't have been as big of
a hit if it wasn't for that lady in the
Midwest who you know, started a male campaign to try

(24:37):
to get it canceled, you know, and making a big
deal about it, and everybody's like, Oh, what's the show
all about? That somebody wants it canceled? I mean, I
think that may have happened a little bit with the
with the Gunfather. I mean, nobody wants this to be made.
What is this that nobody wants to get made?

Speaker 2 (24:53):
It tapped into a nostalgia, I think, being that it
was set in the nineteen forties, and that for the
people who were older in the late nineteen sixties early
nineteen seventies, or the younger people like my father watching it.
He remembers going to big, bad Italian weddings like that,

(25:15):
and you know, the cousins and talking about Gobblegool and
all that stuff. Like they they tapped into that, And
so I think that even outside of the mafia stuff.
I mean most people, you know, maybe they knew somebody
who was mob adjacent er in the mafia. I mean
every Italian Americans family lore has oh yeah, uncle so

(25:37):
and so is in the mafia. It probably was, and
maybe he was. But I think that whole it got
people interested in their own culture, and I think it
connected them to their culture and probably connected to that
group of people at that time more than it necessarily does. Now,
my kids are half Italian and they don't know any

(26:00):
thing about any of that stuff of you know, big
Italian guys making a huge pot of sauce. But even
I saw that to a certain much lesser degree. But
people who lived at that time who were Italian American
like that was much closer to real life for that
and like.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
In terms of popularity too, like it just you know,
bought it bang, like that's the saying that that comes
from the Godfather, and all these moob guys started using
it because people loved it, you know, and make you
an offer you couldn't refuse, like you know, regular people
were saying this, and you know a lot of these
guys are just you know, at the end of the day, like,

(26:39):
you know, especially the street guys, it's I don't know,
like they're they're not much. If they weren't mobsters, I
don't know, they'd be doing like roofing or something, you
know what I mean, like not to like, you know
what I mean, like a lot of these guys are
these like these types of guys not not to smirch them,
Like roofing is it's tough work and it pays good.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
And yeah, there's all to the ark.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
You know.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
They see something.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
That's popular and they're like, oh, yeah, it's you know,
it's popular.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
People like it.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
Of course I'm going to use it, you know, probably
help me pick up girls or whatever. You know, Like
it's like, this is that type of thing, right, you know,
at the first they probably I bet you most of
these moob guys never even read the book we were
just talking about Joe Columbo. Couldn't even read a screenplay,
you know. You know, they just saw that it afterwards
as a goal it became popular, you know, like why

(27:26):
would we people like these guys?

Speaker 4 (27:27):
Why would we not try to act like them?

Speaker 2 (27:29):
So let's uh, let's dive into a little bit of
the production of the Now we're getting into the nitty
gritty of the production. So what were some of the
controversies around how, how and where this film was going
to be filmed.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yeah, so right off the bat they were fighting over
the film was actually going to be shot. Francis insisted
that the film had to be shot in New York
because you couldn't recreate the feel and look of the
film anymore else. The studio felt like it could be
shot in Kansas City, believe it or not. And now,
in the studio's defense, they were, like, as we pointed out,

(28:09):
they were a struggling company that was looking to keep
costs down as much as possible ensure like maximum profits.
It's not like Paramount had a bunch of hits to
look towards too, right. Paramount also wanted to Kansas City,
I believe it. Kansas and Saint Louis was another one
that they were arguing for, just because it would be.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
So much cheaper. Too.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
You can't you can't like recreate Kansas City, and you
can't recreate New York and Kansas City.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
It's just not possible.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Like New York's like one of the oldest cities in
the States, you know, it's one of the first.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Maybe I'll be the odd man out here, but a
lot of the movie, you think about it, the mall
didn't really scream anything New York City, and that the
scene the couples like there was one in front of Macy's,
I think, or it wasn't even labeled as Macy's because
they probably didn't get the rights to use Macy's. But

(29:08):
I think that that could have almost just been cut
screens or b roll and have fulfilled the task. I
wonder if they could have filmed this in a sound
stage and it wouldn't have made a huge difference, like
the fake snow, but the snow looked so fake in
some of the scenes, or the scenes in the Olive

(29:29):
Oil Company looked to me like a soundstage.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
I still think you're talking heresy.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
I guess.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
I mean, it's also like you have to like get
the actors in to make them feel like they're in
New York where this where the story is taking place.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
I get it's their job that they have to perform,
and they it is their jow to act like they're
not themselves or somewhere else.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
But I just don't know.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
I don't see how you can recreate New York City
and like Kansas City or Saint Louis. I just don't
see how you do it. I really don't.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Maybe see if you're right, maybe they could have done it.
Maybe Paramount was right this entire time. They could have
made even more money. Now, this is one of the
more controversial things that Paramount wanted to do. Was Paramount
also wanted to change the setting to modern times, arguing
that the story could take place at any time. It
would help keep costs down in terms of costumes and

(30:28):
set designs. I think you had pointed this out earlier, Steve,
that this story could kind of take place at any time.
I don't know, are you agreeing with the studio?

Speaker 5 (30:38):
Here?

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Steve? Here with a quick word from our sponsors. I
think the Vietnam would have maybe been a little weird,
but I think they could have made it work. I
think though, that the novel really it had that nineteen
forties feel and that vibe, and I think that it
would have been jarring to change that, in my opinion,

(31:03):
from the novel, and it really would have been. I
think they would have had to have created a different
story potentially for that to make that work. But I
think the general, the big picture themes could have fit
into any timeline, but to totally change the novel into

(31:26):
a different era might have been a little weird. Yeah,
I would have been a tough cell because like Michael
Corleone coming back as like a hero from World War Two,
I mean, it's a war that we won, We're fighting
the Nazis, you know where. If he's coming back.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
As like a war hero from Vietnam, especially at that time,
it would have been much tougher sell.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
As him being a war hero.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
I mean, I think a lot of those guys were
not treated very fairly.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Coming back from the war.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
But I mean they're not control of what's going on
in terms of the political and cultural climate that was
going on in the United States at the time. But
it definitely would have been a tougher sell as him
coming back as this kind of war hero, especially with
all the anti war protests and all that stuff that
was going on in and around that time, right.

Speaker 5 (32:20):
Yeah, And part of the I think the important structure
to the film is highlighting early on the vast difference
between Don Corleone and Sonny for that matter, and Michael
and and for Michael to be to have joined the
military is a big deal, and for him to be doing,

(32:44):
you know, fighting in the Second World War, which is
considered by people, you know, more as a good war
in terms of you know, it was pretty clearly defined
what we were fighting for and who we were fighting against,
and most people were in support of the war effort, and
so far there's very unifying. Whereas, as you very accurately
point out, Vietnam would have a completely different complexion. He

(33:08):
could still be rebellious and have gone and joined the
army to go to Vietnam, but it would have been
a different kind of rebellion thing. So I'm going to
disagree with anybody who says it could not that it
couldn't be that you couldn't tell this story in any time.
But I think it would change quite a bit if
you removed it from the time that Puzzo sent it
in set it in. I think the the nuances would

(33:30):
be radically different. You know, you could still tell a
story of you know, a family in organized crime and
father son's strife and the son becoming the father eventually.
I mean, you could still tell that story, but boy,
it would the texture of it in the composition of it,
it just would seem way different to me. That's just

(33:51):
that's just me.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, That's what I was saying, was that the the
basic theme of father son relationships and the suns and
who's going to be the sun to take it's a
story about families to change the what the the idea
that he created was definitely a nineteen forties booked and

(34:14):
that wasn't that as an indelible mark to the novel
and then the movie as well.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
Uh, And you captured something else, Steve too, and you
said that there's an element of nostalgia to this and
if they'd sent it, if they lose that, if they
said it in the current what was then current time?
And so that's just one more reason I think it
was it was a good move to not listen to
the suits in that respect.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
I just got me thinking too, because if they changed
the time period just came to me right now, like
you'd have to change the lighting and everything, because like
the way the whole movie is lit, it's like a
lot of browns and kind of it reminds me of
Art Deco. I don't know if you guys are familiar
with that type of style.

Speaker 4 (34:56):
That was popular.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
But it's like a lot of browns and yellows, and
it fits because that's kind of like the style at
the time. It just came to me right now. But
the other thought that was coming to me was it
shows you just kind of a nice edge a movie
sits on, because if the studio just put their foot
down and said, like this is getting filmed in Kansas City,

(35:20):
or this is we're filming this in modern times, Francis
take it or leave it. And Francis decides.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
To film that movie.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
I'm sure he still would have made a pretty good movie,
but he definitely wouldn't have been able to make the
masterpiece that he ended up making. So it's you know,
decisions like that, and it can come down to one
person's personality and that's the difference between a masterpiece and
maybe a pretty decent movie.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
So now we've gotten to the big part, the casting choices.
Let's dive in right right into the down himself and
Don Corleone is played by Marlon Brando.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, this is I think this is the part that
prebab be people find most interesting. Uh yeah, So right
off the bat, Mario Mario Puzzo felt that the only
man capable of playing Vito core Leone was Marlon Brando.
He actually would personally write him a letter with a
signed book asking him to consider playing the role. Francis

(36:18):
felt the same way, but but he all but considered.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
Sorry.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Francis felt the same way, but considered Mario accepting the
role in the studio, going along with it like a dream.
Francis also felt that Laurence Olivier would be equally good
for the role, but when they got into contact with
him and his agent, they immediately struck down the movie,
struck down the offer, saying that they didn't want to

(36:45):
get into a sleazy mafia stuff.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
Well, that's too bad, because Laurence Olivier would have been
would have probably rocked that role. Not saying he would
have been better than than Marlon Brando, you can't say that.
That's sacrilege, but but I think he you know, in
an alternate history, he would have carried it off. It
probably still could have been a classic movie even if
he were in the role.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
That's that's kind of how I feel, too, right, he
would have been good. He would have been a good choice,
for sure. They could have gone with a lot worse.
So I can only yeah, then while we'll get into
it a little bit with the acting, with some of
the acting choices. The studio didn't want anything to do

(37:27):
with the Brando for various reasons. You know, the studio
pointed out that Brando hadn't had a hint in a
long time. In his last couple of movies were big
box office bombs. Brando was also infamously difficult to work with,
having a wild temper, drug addiction, outlandish requirements such as
like working only working so many weeks and so many

(37:48):
hours a day. It's like a couple examples. This is
something that would follow Brando's entire life, right, it never ended,
So Francis, so on one day, Francis, Mario, and Roddy
all went to Brando's house after he accepted Mario's offer,

(38:08):
and they did a little screen test without him, without
calling it a screen test. Is they didn't want to
offend Brando asking him to do a screen test. And
they were amazed because apparently, like right before their eyes,
the Brando transformed into Corleone. You know, he put this

(38:29):
black chew polish in his hair, and he put a
bunch of cotton balls in his mouth. And you know,
did the accent and they're like, that's the dawn right there.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
This is how they described the story.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
Hey, Chris, had he read the book at that point
or was he just going off the screenplay.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
I think he had read some of the book. After
he had read some of the book, that's when he
thought he could do the role at this And at
that point, I think when they did that like fake
screen test type of not screen tests, I wasn't I'm
not sure if the script was even fully done at
that point. The studio had a few other choices of
their own. Two that they they suggested Ernest Borgnine, George C. Scott,

(39:10):
Orson Wells were among others. And I don't know what
do you guys think of any of those choices.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
When you look at it, Marlon Brando, it's like looking
at a picture of your grandfather. If you put somebody
else in that place, it would be your grandfather. I
mean that he is Vito Corleone. I think my hot
take on that is just that I think of all
the other people in the movie, I think that he

(39:39):
gets elevated in a lot of ways. But al Pacino
put on such a spectacular performance and so did James Kahn,
and like, there's just so many great performances in the movie,
and I think that Brando gets elevated above them. And
I think that personally, for me, Paccino just stole the

(40:00):
show in every single way. So maybe that's a little
iconoclastic along with saying that it could have been filmed
in Kansas City, but I just think that I couldn't
imagine anybody else being Don Corleone besides Marlon Brando, just
because I'm not that imaginative and a fixture of all

(40:24):
of our lives is that Don Corleone is Marlon Brando.
But just watching the movie again, he was good. He
was definitely good.

Speaker 5 (40:33):
I think George C. Scott might have been able to
pull it off. He's pretty talented actor. Ernest borgnine, you know,
he he's under an underrated actor. But I can't I
can't think of too many. I don't I'm not familiar
enough with him to know if he was a lead
actor and a lot of stuff. He always seemed like

(40:53):
he was a you know, second or third billing, you know,
sort of of actor. I don't know if he could
have handle that. And who was the third one that
you mentioned?

Speaker 4 (41:03):
Orson Wells.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
Oh yeah, I mean in an alternate universe for Orson
Wells played that role. Yeah, I mean you italian him
up a little bit with that voice of his. I mean,
he could have rumbled his way to a convincing enough role.
I think, not to take away from Marlon Brando at all,
because I agree with with Steve. I mean, when you
think of the Godfather that that's immediately the first thing

(41:28):
you think of is Marlon Brando, and then you start
thinking about al Pacino because he's the dominant. Like you know,
Michael Corleone is the dominant character, but he's not usually
the first character that you think of. I don't. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
So the studio would go back and forth for a
couple of months, and obviously history history right, they decided
that Brando was going to get the role. They were
actually quite impressed with his screen test not screen test,
and the effort he was actually putting in too trying
to get this role. But they put some demand on
him when he accepted the role. He would have to

(42:03):
work for a lower salary, so it was one point
six million is what I read, and he had to
sign a waiver that if he caused any delays due
to his temper out landish behavior, he would be removed
from the film, and yeah, you know, so the rest
is history, and Brando got the job. You know, maybe

(42:23):
if Mario Buzzo just didn't write him a letter, maybe
none of this would have happened, right, you know, just
kind of thing where you know, on a lark, you know,
he writes them a letter with a signed book, and
Brando ends up taking the role. If he hadn't done that,
you know, maybe Brando just probably wouldn't even thought about it.

(42:45):
It was weird kind of how you know, little things
have to go right to make a film a masterpiece,
and if little things just don't, then you know, we
get a totally different person playing the Godfather and maybe
they do a terrible job and it takes you right
out of the movie. You know, I just been researching
this and kind of really kind of get in this

(43:07):
in the nitty gritty of it. That that was the
part that fastened me the most, was just how absolutely
perfect things have to go to create a masterpiece in filmmaking. Yeah,
Robert Devall, everyone kind of agreed that, yeah, we want
him as Tom Hagen. So there was like there was
really no debate about that. The role of Kay Adams.

(43:30):
There wasn't much of a fight from the studio there either.
Coplo wanted Diane Keaton not only because you know, she's
a great actress.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
Because but also she kind of has like a.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Wap like a wasp wasp fish look to her, which
is what the character called for, right Diane, to this day,
she's still amazed that they cast her in the role,
claiming that she felt like she didn't fit in with
the rest of the cast, which I kind of get.
They were all Italians for the most part of a life,
lot of Italians or people acting Italian, and I mean,

(44:05):
to me, that's exact acting, right, yeah, and to be
but that's exactly the point is Kay, he had to
act and look like a total outsider, which was her
role in the book and the movie. She's an outsider
like from this wasp culture kind of going into this
Italian mafioso, la coos and ostra culture.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
Right.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
That's why it works, right, She physically she doesn't look
she doesn't look like she fits in at all because
she doesn't and they you know, they get into that
later in the later movies. Just how much she doesn't
fit in and The Godfather Part two and The Godfather
Part three. I guess this is the I think the

(44:49):
the audience will find most interesting was how much people
did not want al Pacino to be in this movie.
But I guess we'll get into this and a little
get in this in a second. And now we get
into the most debated casting choice of that of Michael Corleone.
I say, to like, really understand why the casting valve

(45:09):
Pacino was such a hot button the show, we have
to forget pretty much everything we know about his amazing
performance and the success of the movie. Coppola wanted Pacino
right off the bad saying he looked the parts.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
And that Pacino was a phenomenal actor.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Where Coppola wanted Brando, he potentially saw others being able
to pull off the role. When it came to Paccino,
he was steadfastness belief that no one else could pull
off the role of Michael Corleone. Paramount wanted a big
name actor to play the role for obvious reasons. You know,
as much as everyone will say they they aren't seeing

(45:44):
a movie because of an actor or an actress is
in it, or you know, to put it bluntly, they're
full of craft. Because the reason certain actors get paid
the big bucks they do is because they bring the
big bucks in. It's as simple as that, because want
to go see them. The studio initially wanted Warren Batty or.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
D Redford for the role.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
And I said, let's just take a moment and think
about the ridiculousness of Robert Redford playing the role of
Michael Corlon.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
I couldn't believe it when I was reading that. Warren Batty,
I can kind of see Robert Redford like for real.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Steve here again with a quick word from our sponsors.
Warren Batty has the look at least I don't know.
I haven't you know. I actually I haven't seen enough
of Warren Batty to say if he could have pulled
it off or not. Would he have been about the
right age at that time? He always seems old to me.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Like the only reason I kind of think that he
might have been able to pull it off is because,
I mean, he played Bugsy Seguel in the movie Bugsy,
which is.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
Is an interesting movie.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
But I mean he played a gangster and he played
like kind of like detect of type roles and like
criminals and stuff. I can kind of see it like
Robert Redford. I just I just I don't know, Like
me and my wife were talking about that, and we're
just blown away by I don't know, can you imagine
that they cast to Robert Redford probably would have ruined
the whole movie. Not that he's a bad actor, I

(47:18):
just just not for that role.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
Yeah, I you know, I think we we had to
talk about this off Mike at one time, like a
month or two ago, and and the point I made
then I still stand by. I think I think Redford
is an excellent actor, and I think he could have
done a yeoman's work in this role, you know, especially
if they dyed his hair, you know, and and he

(47:44):
worked a little bit on the accident or whatever. But
you know, Patchino brings such like I can't remember the
way I described it, Maybe you do, Steve, because it
was you and I think that we're having the conversation,
But he brings like this icy maleva lens to the role,
this intensity, that this calculating, this deadly calculating sort of

(48:09):
almost shark like, uh, but but hidden underneath it's all,
it's all. It's subtextual a lot of the time. And
you know, I don't know that, you know, Warren Baty
could have done that. I don't know that Robert Redford
could have done that. I mean he was great and
Butch and Sun Dance, and he was great in the
Natural and I mean he's an excellent director. I mean,

(48:31):
you know, runs through it as a great film, and
all kudos to him, But boy, Paccino's portrayal of Michael
Corleone has an element to it that I don't I
don't know that a lot of actors could have brought.
Uh Ironically, I think de Niro is one of them,
but there aren't many.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yeah, he has all of that energy, and you can
in other films where that energy comes out in different ways,
but it was within this particular role where he focused
it all and it just all came through in his
facial features and the way he would stand and even
if he was just standing still like you could, it

(49:14):
came across as motion and emotion. It was pretty amazing,
it wasn't it was amazing.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Well, the person that was like most against al Pacino
getting the role was was Evans, who felt for two reasons,
they literally al Pacino was no name actor. I think
he had done one film. I think it was like
I don't even know if it was like a real film.
It was got short before The Godfather, and he had

(49:43):
done a bunch of theater stuff, but actual film.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Nobody knew who he was, and.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
He said he was too short, so that he was
he was like the audience just wouldn't take him serious.
But I mean, I don't know. He's an Italian. I
mean what Italian's kind of not that every Italian is short,
but they tend to be on the shorter, squattish side, right,
It's just part of they're genetic.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
We're mountain people, Chris, We're a mountain people, you know.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
Like no, it's truth.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
You know, like people think of Italians, they think of
like you know Stallone.

Speaker 4 (50:16):
You know, he's jacked, he's huge, but he's short. You know.

Speaker 5 (50:20):
So how tall is Tom Cruise? I mean, he's a
lot shorter than people think. And I don't think but
you know, comes off looking small in stature at all.
And some of that might be the way that they
filmed him, you know, but that doesn't surprise me that
that's a bias, particularly in you know, when was The

(50:43):
Godfather made nineteen seventy two. You know, but a lot
of biases existed in nineteen seventy two that we wouldn't
find very helpful to today, for sure.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
I just I don't know, I don't know playing I
don't know. I just don't get it.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
I'm like, he's playing playing an Italian. Then you know
your complaint is that he's short. I'm like, I don't know,
Like Italian people tend to be on the shorter side,
not all of them, but it's it is like a
it is like a thing like you think of like Swedes.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
It's like the tall blonde guys.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
It's like, oh yeah, not every Swede is tall, but
they tend to be on the aller side. I mean,
look at the Saws. I'm trying to think those two
brothers and the father, this Sky's Guard or one of
them was in that movie The Northman. I'm trying to
think of them. Yeah, Like you look at those guys

(51:34):
and you look at them, it's like, yeah, someone like that,
like they're big North German or Swedish.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
I'm like, yeah, I totally get it. They totally they
look at who.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Are some of the other people because they really seem
to be going down a checklist of people to come
up with anybody besides al Pacino, and they're they keep
going seemingly further and further afield from the Paccino Like actors.

Speaker 5 (51:59):
Yeah, the student.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
You know, they tested Dustin Hoffman, Dean Stockwell, Martin Sheen.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
At one point the James Kahn.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Well, James con would end up being in the movie,
but he didn't get the role of Michael Corleone. And
in one of the more bizarre stories about the making
of the movie, but apparently Burt Reynolds was offered the
role to play Michael, and apparently when Brando heard that
this was the case, he threatened to quit the movie.

(52:31):
And you know, once Bert Reynolds heard, he just left himself.
As soon as he heard that Brando quit.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
Bert. Yeah, Burt Reynolds, I don't.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
I like, I like him like in some movies, but
I just yeah, that would have been a really odd
choice to play play an Italian is Burt Reynolds. But
I mean, I don't know, what do you guys think,
Do you think Bert Renalds could have pulled it off?

Speaker 4 (53:00):
I don't at all.

Speaker 5 (53:02):
You know, most of his work prior to that time
was serious work. I mean, he hadn't gotten into the
you know, smoking the bandit stage of his career. Yet
he was still doing like Gator and you know those
you know those movies, and you know, The Longest Yard
was a couple of years later, and Deliverance obviously came
out the same year. That was huge. I think he's

(53:24):
underrated in his ability too. I think people think of
him as a one trick pony and you know, a mustache,
you can giggle and drive a trans am and and
certainly he did that in some of those movies. But
you know, I mean he was He was in a
movie called Stick that was really good, and and uh,
well you.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Mentioned the Deliveries. Deliverance was fantastic, right. I just can't
see him playing that role though. I just just maybe
he was.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
Good in that.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I have to say, I would like to see the
alternative universe Godfather with Reynolds or Dustin Hoffman or maybe
Martin Sheen. I'd be interested to see them and see
how they took the role in maybe slightly different directions,
because I Martin Sheen, to me, he honestly seems like

(54:16):
the least likely not that he's a bad actor. But
I don't see the necessarily the that intensity that al
Pacino brought. But maybe I'm wrong on that.

Speaker 5 (54:28):
No, I think you're right about the intensity. I will
stick to that that you know, maybe maybe, you know,
I think DeNiro in a more quiet way could have
brought that to the role if he had been selected.
There are a couple other actors maybe that could. But
but Martin, she's a great actor, and you know, he
worked with Coppola later in Apocalypse Now. But uh, you know,

(54:57):
I get why they didn't want to do Paccino though,
when I looked him up on IMDb. You know when
Chris said he only had a few things, he you know,
he only had three things, and yeah, none of them
were big movies at all. He really was a no
name And so you know, us second guessing them a
little bit, we might be uh, we might be put

(55:17):
on our twenty twenty hindsight glasses with this one.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Well, no, I get like where Evans and the studio
is coming from. They're like, why are you so insistent
on Gino? Like we can't sell, Like it's going to
be hard for us to sell this movie as our lead,
Like our lead actor or somebody that nobody's ever heard of,
and we need this movie.

Speaker 5 (55:36):
And they could have gotten around that, though, Chris, if
they had, I mean, and they kind of did initially
by you know, pushing Brando as the lead actor, you know.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
And I think that's why they ended up doing it right,
with Brando on the cover and everything.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
And and how big was I'm trying to think how
big James Cohn was at that point in his career.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
He had done a couple of things because the studio
was big on James Conn. They wanted James Conn in
the movie.

Speaker 5 (56:02):
CON's first entry on IMDb. I mean, it's a television
entry is first several are but it's day back Day
dates back to nineteen sixty one, so obviously he'd been
in the business for a while. He was on Wagon Train,
he had a bunch of other things. But I'm not seeing,
you know, he did some guests guesting on Yeah. You know,

(56:25):
when I look at this, the Godfather's his first big movie.
I guess he was in Brian's Song, which was a
TV movie that was really big at the time. I
don't think it's really held up maybe to history as
well as its popularity in the moment, So maybe they
were writing off of that that he was, you know,
this heart throb sort of inspirational story the year before.

(56:52):
But he's you know, I mean, he's been in the
industry for a while. He's not completely no name, but
he's not huge.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
But the studio also thought Jack Nicholson would be good
for the role, and apparently they offered him. They offered
him the role and of Michael Yeah, and Jack ended
up he turned it down, claiming like he thought it
would be ridiculous not having an Italian play the role.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
And I think I tend to agree with him. I
kind of I tend to agree with him on that.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
But apparently the studio was like, it's your job if
you want it, I bet you he writes that decision
because you know, that probably would have been his I mean,
he had a bunch of big hits, but that probably
would have been his biggest hit, right, But I don't
know if he would have been able to pull it
off or not. I mean, he definitely you guys talk
about the intensity. He definitely would have brought the intensity.
It just would have been a different type of intensity.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
His is more crazy intensity, Like yeah, like a screw
loss stuff.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
Like I could see him playing Sonny.

Speaker 5 (57:52):
Yeah, I could see him playing Sonny and.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
Doing a really good job at it.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
I mean, James con was really good at it too,
but I could I can't see him Michael, because it's.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
You guys brought it like icy, steely.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Quiet type of intensity that's mainly conveyed with through al
Pacino's eyes really.

Speaker 5 (58:12):
And it's there, and it's there the whole movie, like
even when he's in his I mean I just kind
of joked about that line, I'm not my father, K.
You know that he that he delivers something that that
that's I think a pretty close quote at the wedding,
you know, when he the scene where he tells her
about the band leader in the offer that he can't
refuse story and that's kind of the punchline to it,

(58:33):
I'm not my father. K. Even then, he's got that intensity,
it's just he's using it to kind of be aloof
from his family. And then it shifts, you know, as
the as the story in the and the film progresses,
but and dials up a little bit too, but it's
there the entire the entire time.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
And his character too, where you know when they show
him in his marine, that uniform and jux. You have
to put that in your mind that he's seen horrors
that these mafia people could not even imagine in a
million years. But also he can't really imagine their world either.

(59:17):
It's it's such a strange dichotomy that they give us
with you know, the returning war hero. They I don't
know if they out they do say that he was
in actual battle, in combat, and they don't really understand
his world and he doesn't entirely understand their world. And

(59:37):
I think that that is one of the most fascinating
parts of the movie, or at least that early stage
of the movie.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Well, the studio.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Ended up agreeing that Pachino would get the role, but
Robert de Niro is actually involved in.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
This historic believer or not.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
But you know, I was convinced that he wasn't going
to get the role based off what other people were saying,
and he had signed up to do a signed up
to play in the movie The Game That Couldn't Shoot Straight.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Me and you, Me and you, Steve have talked about
this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
It's loosely somewhat kind of based off crazy Joe Gallow's life,
sort of and he was going to play the Italian
immigrant role, or the the Zip.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Role, I guess, and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
That's a little like a Zip was a like a
Sicilian that the newly arrived Sicilian in New York. That
was like kind of Mark Mafioso. But yeah, so he
took that role, and then Paramount had to get involved
and basically got him out of that contract and said, well,
we have this guy de Niro who would be good

(01:00:49):
for the role too.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
They offered him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Let's say, okay, you give us Achino, we'll give you
a de Niro, And so de Niro ended up being
in the movie The Game that Couldn't Shoot straight. Paramount
ended up getting al Pacino all that fighting and then
they had to do more fighting just to get them
back when they could have had them initially. And yeah,
so and then James con was ended up getting the
role as sunny as a I guess, second prize.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
It'd be a weird way of putting it, and in
some ways it was. It wasn't the lead role, but
we watch it in the movie and here's the role
that we think he'd be good at. So I don't know,
what do you guys think about Robert de Niro having
a connection to this movie, and which is you kept
you guys kept up bringing up Robert de Niro, and
it was like, of course, like why not in such
a weird kind of way too. That movie The Game

(01:01:38):
that Couldn't Reach Shoot Straight, though, like I don't know,
listen watch it and listen to the podcast we uh
did on it because it's interesting, but it's I don't know,
it's not the greatest movie.

Speaker 5 (01:01:51):
I haven't seen it, so I can't I can't comment.
You guys are the experts on this one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Yeah, you should go and see it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:57):
It is now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
It's pretty out there, like, uh, I don't even know.
It's a comedy, right, It's like it's kind of like
a goofball.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
It reminds me.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
It reminded me a bit of like the Naked Gun movies,
sort of in that vein.

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
Of like the spoof comedy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
It wasn't very good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
I don't want to kind of go into the game
They Couldn't streat Shoot Straight. But I just thought it
was funny because we talked about that movie and we
talked about Joe Gallo. We're talking about The Godfather, and
we're talking about like Pacino de Niro always seem to
be kind of connected in some way. We're like cool, like,
you know, de Niro could have done that role or
Patino could have done that role, like you can kind

(01:02:38):
of switch them in and out, both famous Italian and
Italian American actors. I just thought that was I thought
that was like one of the funnier bits and researching
this the history of this movie for this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
And then wrapping up, do you have a little fun
side note? We've if anybody follows us on YouTube tube,
you've done a short on this person. But the character,
the person who played Luca Brasi, he's not the biggest
part of the whole movie, but he's an interest, has
a little bit of an interesting background.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
I didn't think it was really necessary to like go
through all the rules. I didn't really find it interesting myself,
and maybe I just assumed the audience wouldn't either if
I wasn't finding it interesting. But I wanted to make
mention of the character Luca Brozi. Lenny Montana was a
who plays the character Luca Brozi. He was actually a

(01:03:34):
professional wrestler for during a large portion of his life,
and he was actually an enforcer for the Colombo crime family.
During the filming, Francis and Ruddy both caught sight of Lenny,
who was being a bodyguard for one of the Columbo
family members that was on set, you know, standing at

(01:03:55):
six foot six and over three hundred and thirty pounds.
Then he looked the part like he was practically made
for the parts. And so when they got Lenny to
read from the script, the genuine way in which he struggled,
Francis thought was perfect because of course, the man that
knew nothing but violence in his life would have difficulty
doing something like that, just reading a letter that he

(01:04:18):
wrote himself. Yeah, and the rest is history. Really just
kind of by accident, Lenny Montana ended up putting on
probably one of the best bit roles ever in Mob
movie history. I mean, he's only in the movie for
a little bit, but everybody, everybody loves Luca Brosi, you know,
and he plays it perfectly.

Speaker 5 (01:04:39):
And Luca Brozi sleeps with the Fishes is one of
the iconic lines that comes out of the movie, right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
You know, on him getting strangled too, right, the little
side note like that actual strangling part is you know,
he suffered some serious damage because he came from like
a wrestling background where yeah, it's fake, but they they
they put the chokes on in such a way that
it looks somewhat realistic, right, so they do have to

(01:05:05):
apply pressure. So when they were doing it, he's like, oh,
just keep on going harder and harder and harder. And
he said like he literally felt like his eyes were
going to pop out when that wasn't acting like.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
You know, so yeah, and it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Was like take after take after take, and he's like
he started getting pissed off at one point because he
was like Francis.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
Like you don't have it yet. He's like no, no, no,
two more or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
So, yeah, you know, now that we had the early
parts of the filmmaking process in place, let's next week
actually do a proper review of the Godfather movie and
put into context just how important this movie was in
terms of pop culture, but also how the Mob viewed itself.

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