March 28, 2025 • 73 mins
In this explosive episode, we’re joined by legendary investigator Norio Hayakawa to uncover the sinister ties between the mysterious Octopus Murders and the chilling theory of Project Blue Beam. Journalist Danny Casolaro was found dead under suspicious circumstances while investigating The Octopus — a powerful global network linked to espionage, corruption, and secret technology. Was his death a warning to those who dig too deep?Norio also breaks down Project Blue Beam, the alleged plan to use advanced holographic technology to stage a false alien invasion — and manipulate humanity into submission. Could these events be part of the same grand deception? Are we being prepared for something far bigger?Join us as we piece together the clues and expose the dark truths hidden beneath the surface. This is one episode you can’t afford to miss.Linksemail:beyondtheparadigm@yahoo.comBeyond the Paradigm - YouTubeinstagram.com/paradigm1979twitter.com/paradigm_79(1) Facebook
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Guest Links
NORIO HAYAKAWANorio Hayakawa - YouTube
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Guest Links
NORIO HAYAKAWANorio Hayakawa - YouTube
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M You're here because you know something. What you know
you can't explain, but you feel it. You felt it
your entire life. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The matrix?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I had dreams that weren't just dreams. We accept the
reality of the world with which we're presented. It's as
simple as that. Billions of people just living out their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oblivious, they talks. You're good, Hey, do you believe their world?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
You can deny all the things I've seen, all the
things I've discovered, not for once long because too many
others know what's happening, and and no one, no government agency,
has jurisdiction over the truth.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
Hello, and welcome to Beyond the Paradigm. I'm your host,
Paul Brakel. It is a pleasure once again to be
back with you with a new episode, and today's episode
is an interview with a returning guest.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Nor Higher Cower.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
No Rio has been researching the UFO phenomena for over
fifty years. But just before we get into the actual interview,
just want to remind people that the best way to
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(01:45):
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(02:07):
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(02:27):
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name Beyond the Paradigm, and I do post quite a
lot of short videos on there. I am on Twitter,
but I am shadow band on there, so I think
(02:47):
that a lot of my posts that I do put
on there, they don't get seen by very many people,
But on Instagram it seems to be some of my
videos definitely have been seen by a lot of people.
I've had a couple go viral which attracted a number
of new followers on there. So if you want to
just take a look on that and watch some of
my short videos, that'd be very much appreciated. If you
(03:08):
follow me on Instagram, and that's also linked to my Facebook.
I don't really actively use the Facebook other than linking
my Instagram videos to my page on there. So if
you don't have Instagram but you have Facebook, you can
follow me on there and you'll also see the videos
that I do on Instagram appear on Facebook as well.
(03:29):
So the Octopus Murders, first of all, why am I
doing an episode on this and what are the Octopus Murders? Well,
first of all, my guest noriok does have some links
to the Octopus Murders in terms of some of the
people that was involved in the documentary and some of
(03:50):
the names mentioned in the documentary on Netflix. And for
those people who are unaware of what the Octopus Murders is,
it sa a documentary on Netflix, and the Octopus Murders
refers to the mysterious death of a journalist named Danny
Cassilliro in nineteen ninety one and the complex conspiracy theories
(04:13):
he was investigating at the time. Cassilero was found dead
in a hotel room in Mortonsburg, West Virginia, with multiple
slashes to his wrist, and while his death was officially
ruled as suicide, his family and colleagues of long suspected
foul play, believing he was killed due to his investigation
into what he termed the Octopus, a purported clandestine network
(04:40):
with tentacles reaching into various global scandals, and Cassilero's research
centered on several interconnected controversies. The Inslaw Promised Software scandal,
which allegations that in the United States Department of Justice
misappropriated software developed by Inslaugh Inc. Leading to claims of
(05:04):
illegal distribution and use by government agencies. The Iran contrafer
which is the political scandal involving the secret sale of
arms to Iran to fund Contra rebels in Nicaragua during
the Reagan administration. October Surprise theory, allegations that representatives associated
(05:25):
with Ronald Reagan's nineteen eighty presidential campaign conspired to delay
the release of American hostages in Iran to affect the
outcome of the election. Bank and Credit Commerce International scandal,
a major international bank.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Involved in money laundering and.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Other illegal activities with alleged connections to intelligence agencies. Cassilero
believed that these events were not isolated, but interconnected components
of a vast, hidden organization that he dubbed the Octopus.
Untimely death occurred just as he claimed to be nearing
(06:04):
a breakthrough in his investigation, and it has fueled ongoing
speculation and debate, And in the twenty twenty four Netflix
release a four part documentary entitled American Conspiracy That Octopus Murders,
which delves into Cassilliro's death and an intricate web of
conspiracies he was unraveling, and the series revisits his work,
(06:28):
featuring interviews with individuals connected to the case and dramatized
reenactments aiming to shed light on the enduring mysteries surrounding
the Octopus. And like I said, Norio has knowledge of
some of these individuals, and that's why I speak to
him a little bit about it, But the main sort
(06:49):
of thrust of the interview is obviously the UFO phenomena,
and we go into that regarding Project Bluebeam. So I'm
not going to talk any more about what we're doing
talk about. I'm simply just gonna let you listen to
the episode now, guys, hopefully you'll enjoy it. So that's
enough for me, and without further ado, it's time to
(07:09):
bring Norio onto the show well for the second time
on Beyond the Paradigm. It is a real pleasure Norio
to welcome you back. So thank you for joining me again.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Thank you so much Paul for having me on your
show again. I sure appreciate this and I'm excited always
to meet on your show.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, no it.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
It was a great episode last time. A lot of
good feedback from listeners, and one of the comments that
stuck out to me was regarding that they knew you
was a genuine person, very humble, and I would agree
with that, and anyone that's not listened to that first
episode with Norio definitely well worth listening to. Norio is
(07:55):
a UFO researcher. How many years is it, Norio?
Speaker 7 (07:57):
Now you've been researching, well, you know, you searching this
strange phenomenal or the UFO phenomena since nineteen sixty one,
so that's more than definitely sixty years.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Yeah, so Norio, oh yeah, You've got more more time
in this sort of research field than many people. And
I've had other researchers on the show, but one thing
that stands out for me is you are sincere and
you are genuine, and you definitely want to get to
the truth of this like I do. And unfortunately, in
(08:33):
this sort of field, you have a lot of people
who are a sensationalist and seem to be in it
for themselves, as I would imagine you're well aware of
with some of the people you've met over the years,
some of the bigger names that are sort of well
known in this field, particularly over there in the United States.
But a lot of people, in my opinion, are sensationalizing
(08:54):
things because they know that that sort of sells, and people,
you know, I suppose these people out there that want
to believe I'm more just want to.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Know what we're dealing with.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
But the last time we spoke, like there was quite
a few things that I didn't get to talk to
you about, and like I was just we were just
having a little chat there before we went on air.
I don't know if anyone listeners are familiar. Many of
you will be, so may not. There was a documentary
on Netflix entitled American Conspiracy The Octopus Murders, and it
(09:30):
is a fascinating documentary and it's basically regarding the murder
of an investigative journalist, Danny Casilliro.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
But you've you've got some sort.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Of link really to this documentary because you've come across
some of these people, haven't you, that are actually involved
in this.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (09:53):
I was quite impressed with that documentary American Conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
See it was well made.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
And you know, it just captivated the attention of so
many people, and it was a realistic program because it was.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Based on facts.
Speaker 8 (10:18):
And we still don't know the full story of the
entire Octopus conspiracy, but the fact.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Is that that they many of the personalities involved were
real persons, and.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So personally, I became involved somewhat in this.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
Octopus conspiracy because in nineteen ninety two, I believe in
nineteen ninety two, that.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Was when.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
I organized a large group of utiful and conspiracy enthusiasts
and we held a large meeting in southern California, and.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
At that time I was, you know, I was.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
Just so interested in this intrigue and so uh huh.
Right around the time of the conference, I came to
know some key personalities such as Ted Gnderson, who was
the former FBI agent in charge.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Of Los Angeles.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
And Ted Gonderson, by the way, was the instrumental PI
agent who successfully u you know, kept the nineteen eighty
four Los Angeles Olympics, you know, in in a very
safe manner. But then, of course later on he retired
(12:19):
and he became the researcher of real conspiracies.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
And so by the time we held.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
The the you know a seminar in southern California in
nineteen ninety two, I was familiar with Ted Gunnerson, and
I became his friend. So he was instrumental in helping
us organize this need to know seminar in which the
(12:59):
very mysterious group called the wacken Hut Corporation was the
main topic. In fact, that conference was organized by an
individual named mister Mike uh and he was allegedly.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Person that.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Started talking about a group called com twelve. But anyway,
this conference was successful because among the participants in this
conference was several key figures of the wacken Hut Corporation.
Even though the conference was to expose the wacken Hut Corporation, Uh,
(13:52):
you know, several high level people from wacken Hut came.
Maybe they came to observe what we were doing, but
to any anyway, one of the participants who came to
the conference was a former arms merchant named Robert Booth Nichols,
(14:17):
who many people still suspect even today that we may
have played a major role in the death of Danny Castelaro.
So yeah, through the connection with Ted Gunnerson, the FBI
(14:40):
agent retired, I you know, I came to know a
lot of people. In fact, one of the key people
personality in this whole octopus conspiracy with the American conspirat.
He was a scientist by the name of Michael Riconno Schuto,
(15:06):
a strange character who's whereabouts at this time is not certain,
but he was allegedly released from prison several years ago
and we don't know where he is actually, But just
(15:28):
around nineteen ninety two I had spoken briefly, or rather
I was introduced to the wife of Michael Riconno Shooto
and Michael Riconno Shooto's wife happened to attend a utiful
(15:49):
conference that I organized in Orange County sometime in the
early nineteen ninety two. I think from what im so, yeah,
I in this sense, I I'm still just wondering.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
What happened to this strange organization.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Wackenhart Corporation, which was a large corporation in the nineteen
nineties that were was in charge of security at sensitive
locations such as Give Me every Day one in Nevada
and many other military installations. Wackenhart Corporation was a private
(16:42):
company that was assigned to take care of security. Because
of their private you know group, they were not you know,
bound by certain things. So many military installations in America
(17:09):
decide to decided to hire the semi uhh well, decided
to hire semi private security corporations. Then this is I
would say, somewhat logical thing to do.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
They can distance themselves count of the government, that's the thing.
If it's if it's a private company, they can if
anything untoward goes on, they can say, well it's a
private company. It's it's not really anything to do with us.
We've we've contracted it out and left them to sort
of run things, if you will.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
And I think that they can go. But Wakon Had
Corporation or wh special Security Group I think right now
is involved in conducting private prisons in many places in
(18:15):
the United States and probably overseas as well.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Private prisons.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
That's a big business right now.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
I used to work in prisons service, but it was
for the HMP or His Majesty's Pusiness service. But they
have a number of private prisons over here. And like
you said, it's big, it's big money.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
They don't work.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
They don't work because these companies are just seeking to
make money. Now, Ted Gunderson, like you said, you were
sort of friends with him. I listened to a while back.
It was an old recording where he's talking about basically
(18:58):
sort of child traffic king and the children are traffic
for various reasons, including obviously sexual exploitation but also child sacrifice.
Did he ever mention anything like this to you?
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Really, A lot of people knew about that because Ted
Anderson investigated a lot of those kinds of you know,
strange events, you know, especially there's a place in California
(19:38):
called Manhattan Beach.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
But there were some kind of allegations that.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Some private businesses were involved with, you know, such Henus
project involving children and so other people have also written
books about this, but those were one of the things
(20:11):
that Ted Gunerson was heavily investigating at that time.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
You know. So I'm not a specialist on that, but.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
You know, Ted Gunnison was a very instrumental person because
at first he was not a believer in conspiracies, but
after he retired he investigated some of these claims, and
later on he became a tremendous advocate of you know,
(20:51):
investigations into strange groups that were damaging people and so well.
Later on, Ted Gunnerson became an activist and he participated
in many of.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
The activities where a former colleague.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
Of mine called n J. Hilder was involved, and so
as MEJ. Hilder and I did a lot of things
together with Ted Gunnison, even having.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
The People's Rally.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
At Area fifty one in nineteen ninety eight, and Ted
Gunnison himself attended the People's Rally which I.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Organized in order to confront the.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
United States government to admit the existence of Area fifty one,
not just you know, you know and you know unknown
facility on the Groom Groom Lake in Nevada.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
So we succeeded in many ways because we addressed the issues.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Of the former workers at Area fifty one who were injured.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
When they came in touch with the.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Toxic chemical substance in the late nineteen eighties and into
the early nineteen nineties, and many of the workers at
Area fifty one died because of these illnesses because apparently
(22:49):
the authorities at places like Area fifty one was using
toxic chemical substances while they were working on stealth technology late.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Nineteen eighties to nineteen nineties.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
So that was the main reason for having this unprecedented
the people's rally in nineteen ninety eight right at the
limits of Area fifty one boundary. About two hundred and
fifty people showed up at the rally, including Ted Gunson
(23:31):
and of course Anthony YJ. Hilllett, And of course both
of these persons are now gone. I mean Anthony JH
then stroke two years ago and it's no longer with us,
and of course Ted guns And passed away also, So
(23:52):
you know, we're left with a very few of the
original people that were involved in all of this.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
So I am kind of fortunate now that I'm still.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
I'm doing well and I'm surviving all these things. And
of course, you know, people like us are getting older
and older.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
But as far.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
As I'm concerned, I'm still delty and I still live
here in the state of New Mexico where I reside,
right yeah, still investigating the claims of you know, secrecy,
(24:44):
especially where I live in Albuquerque, the home of Curtain
and Air Force Space and the home of a large
nuclear storage facility inside the Courtlin Air Force Space. So
these are issues that really still all are very realistic.
And of course, you know, I'm a person that is
(25:11):
based on.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Science.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
I I'm not just a person that believes in anything.
I basically believe in scientific methodology, even in the field
of apology.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
My main.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
Interest is in, you know, promoting the scientific attitude towards
the things. And for example, I believe that the government,
uh the Air Force, for example, has been using a
lot of you know, scientific equipment and uh, you know,
(25:55):
developing lots of the scientific methodologies and creating a lot
of you know, weapon systems and the weapon I'm not
against weapon systems, because many of these weapon systems are
you know, basically for protection of citizens from for example,
(26:17):
foreign adversaries and so on. So I'm all for scientific approaches,
but yet my belief is that not everything can be
explained by science. And so this is where my involvement
in upology comes in, because I believe that there's more too,
(26:40):
you know, materials, materialistic things, and materialistic approach to finding
the truths, and you just can to rely on science
alone because there are many things in this world that
exists that we cannot see. And so that's my basic,
(27:00):
uh you know position even now.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I mean, but you know, you.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Bringing up this, uh the Dandy castlewell or the octopus,
the Americans conspiracy. These are real things, real issues, and
as I said, some of the things involving the American
(27:25):
conspiracies are locations involving Native American reservations. For example, the
Covers Zone covers on Indian Reservation southern California, where scientists
like Michael mcconnish Hutto helped develop you know, pulls into
(27:51):
new kinds of explosives, and so many of these uh,
you know, weapons programs are conducted in uh strangely in uh,
Native American lands. So that's one of the subtopics of
(28:11):
this American conspiracy documentary.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
For those who haven't seen the documentary, it's world worth watching.
And basically Danny Castelliro was investigating was it in slaw
and this software, this promise software. The software was like
a case management software developed by this company called inslaw,
(29:08):
And then he started looking into sort of things to
do with contract disputes I believe it is, and ultimately
it led him sort of down different rabbit holes, didn't
it That could have? It led him to all kinds
of things, which is why it's called the Octopus murders.
And then ultimately he ended up being killed. I mean,
(29:31):
obviously they tried to say that he killed himself, didn't they.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
Right, So this conspiracy is still just a mystery and
still unsolved.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
But there is a dark web of you.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Know, entities, the human entities of course, that are involved
in uh the hideous things experiments. And you know, Michael
Ricono Shooto was a real scientist. He was very smart
(30:12):
and he knew a lot of things, and he even
mentioned one time there's something going on in places like
New Mexico in an Indian reservation called D'll say in
(30:33):
the university, you know Indian reservation, that he carry a
patch Indian reservation. And he even was aware that something
was going on in the community of Lills already in
the nineteen nineties. So you know, this octopus conspiracy stretch
(30:57):
so much, and it is really a huge tentacle of
mysteries that is still going around. And some of these
conspiracy have changed the names, you know, and some of
the organizations have you know, changed names, and that's how
(31:22):
these organizations survived by morphing into other names and involving
other agencies. So it's still there. It's still there, and
so you know it's endless, but we have to do
(31:45):
something about it, even though it's impossible to get to
the bottom of these things.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Yeah, I mean, as I remember from watching it, this
Robert Booth Nichols, he was so of possibly you know,
involved in Danny Castellario's death, but then ultimately he he
was found dead I think in two thousand and nine
in mysterious circumstances as well.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
So you know, people keep disappearing or you don't hear
from these people. Like I said, this uh scientist by
the name of Michael Ricconos youto. Uh. He was released
from a Lampark, California prison, but the circumstances of his
(32:41):
release was very mysterious. Some people say that he was
released you know, on purpose too, you know, either to
protect him or some reason no other.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
We don't know.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
We don't know these things. But you know, I will
never forget this kind of connection.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, yeah, you know to all these personalities, and.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
Somehow UFOs may play a partial role in some of
the ideas presented in this kind of you know, cover ups,
you know. So that's where I am interested. You know,
(33:43):
I'm interested in all these realistic conspiracies. But some of
these conspiracies extend into thinks that we still don't know
too much about in the government, still don't know too
much about, and that involves the the UFO phenomena.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Some of the utiful.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Phenomena could be artificially induced, you know, and so we
just don't know for sure.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Even right now.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
For example, you know, persons like Donald Trump expressed interest
in UFOs many times, but yet he hasn't come up
with any tangible things. And even personalities such as Elon Mosque,
(34:50):
who is into science and technology, he himself hasn't made
any clear statements of about.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
The beautiful phenomena. In fact, he seems like he's very.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Skeptical about extraterrestrial phenomena. So that's what he said even
a few months ago, that he is skeptical about this.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yet.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
You know, well, he's trained in science and so on,
but there are still things that the government cannot take
hold of concretely as far as evidences are concerned. So,
(35:43):
you know, despite the congressional hearings on the UFOs, nothing
has shown up as far as tangible evidence there is.
We haven't seen any tangible evidence of any artifact act yet.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
But many so called.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
Molds or so called informants, alleged informants come out claiming
that they are part of this governmental group that is
investigating UFOs in that they're convinced that the government is
hiding some artifacts.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Despite these claims, we haven't seen.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
Anything solid yet, but that doesn't mean that there's you know,
there aren't any of these mysteries around, because I believe
that there are still mysteries around, you know, and so
I keep searching all of this and living right here
(36:56):
in New Mexico is a blessing because New Mexico itself
is a location of I military experiments and important.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Location.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I mean New Mexico.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
It's like, obviously, I was just going to ask you
what she take on the Roswell incident.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
That took place allegedly nineteen forty seven, and you know,
nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I think I've spoken with you before about.
Speaker 6 (37:38):
The significance of nineteen forty seven, and I came to
the conclusion that nineteen forty seven is the beginning of
the modern day brainwashing system to familiarize us with the
so called alien presence, and so so, whatever happened in
(38:02):
nineteen forty seven in Roswell is still up in the air.
I haven't seen any concrete evidence that Roswell incident had
anything to do with the alien you know, flying sources crashing.
There's no evidence for it.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
You know.
Speaker 6 (38:22):
And but yet there's plenty of evidence that there was
an incident in nineteen forty seven. There were several incidents
in nineteen forty seven involving you know, strange incidents of
something crashing. But you know, it's most likely that, yeah,
(38:49):
it could have been our technology or experiment in some
high altitude reconnaissance equipment that was.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Kept in quiet at that time, So.
Speaker 6 (39:06):
It could have been, you know, staged that way, either
by the government, or.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
If one is to believe in.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
A dimensional intelligence, maybe may have been staged on purpose
by those extra dimensional entities, on purpose to condition us
to believing in the so called alien presence.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
So we still don't know. We still don't know for sure.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
But nineteen forty seven is the modern day beginning of
the belief and a plematization of the belief in the
alien presence of some strange reason weather. You know, of course,
we all know that from time memorial people have.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Reported seeing strange things.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Flying in the air, and this is this was not new,
But I'm talking about the modern day era. I actually
seem to have begun or on nineteen forty seven, you know,
the very the very year that CIA was created, the
very same year that National Security Agency was created.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Air Force was created in nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
So yes, it's still mysterious, it's still up in the air.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
But you know, I've been to Roswell.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
I know a lot of people in Roswell, but I
haven't seen anything so far. But rather than rather than Roswell,
where nothing is happening except for a yearly lunacy called
the Roswell Alien Festival, which is simply money making effort
(41:06):
by the city of Roswelle.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
But you know, but.
Speaker 6 (41:10):
That does not mean that there are unexplainable things that
happens or happened in New Mexico. Elsewhere in New Mexico,
for example, in the Farmington, New Mexico, in nineteen fifty,
hundreds of people witnessed flight of hundreds of metallic objects
(41:34):
in March.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Of nineteen fifty Farmington, New Mexico. And this is known
as the.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
You know, amazing signing of hundreds of metallic n's houses
over the town of Farmington. And people don't talk about
it because most people haven't heard about it. But I
know about it because I was there and I interviewed
(42:03):
some people who who witnessed that incident in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
But other than.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Farmington, there are others still fantastic. I mean, it's fantastically
intriguing places such as northern New Mexico, especially in the
Hi Career Apache Indian Reservation known for the main community
(42:31):
of Duse, where even today people are reporting sightings of
you know, strange military helicopters and strange objects at night,
even encountering strange entities at night. And whether these things
(42:52):
are physical or paraphysical, we don't know. But there are
too many reports of this and go ongoing even now.
So yeah, I am not a debunker of claims of
these local peoples who continue to see these things. So
(43:15):
you know, that is something that I will never stop.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Investigating even today.
Speaker 6 (43:24):
But I'm just as confused as anybody because.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I like to get to the bottom of these things
that you know.
Speaker 6 (43:33):
They are just some things that cannot be explained by
Newtonian science or scientific methods, and so yeah, that's where
I am even right now.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
I think there's a definite conditioning process going on.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I mean, a lot of.
Speaker 5 (43:57):
The guys I speak to and I've interviewed pre they're
sort of a believe that the UFO phenomena is like
a nuts and bolts, you know, nuts and bolts, craft
and aliens and this and that. Well, that's not my belief.
I believe it's part of a greater deception.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Obviously we order is fallen evil.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
Entities, what we call fallen angels, and obviously their leader
is commonly referred to as Satan or the Devil. But
I wanted to just sort of talk a little bit
about Project Bluebeam, because this is an interesting theory that's
(44:38):
I think it were propagated by Surge manest. Basically, Project
Blue Beam the plan to implement a new world order
and a new religion by means of technology. And apparently
the plan has four steps, and a lot of people
believe that we're in the middle of the third step
(45:00):
of this plan. I mean, I'll just look for those
people who don't know what Project Blue Beam is, I'll
just quickly read some of these steps or step one,
break down all archaeological knowledge by means of artificially created earthquakes,
fake discoveries of artifacts, and archaeological findings, to discredit all
(45:21):
fundamental world religions and doctrines, using Hollywood movies to construct
a psychological groundwork that makes people question the origins of
the world and humanity, Preparing and educating people via movies
television about the possibilities of a space alien invasion and
(45:42):
movies such as two thousand and one of Space Odyssey
and Star Trek series, Star Wars movies, movies like Jurassic
part to deal with the theories of evolution, basically the
same that this Step one is to destroy the beliefs
of all Christians.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
And also Muslims.
Speaker 5 (46:01):
Actually, it says Step two is a gigantic space show
using three D optical holograms space based lasers generating satellites
projecting holographic images beamed across the sky. These projections are
different in various parts of the world. The sky projections
will be accordingly to regional national religious faith. A new
(46:24):
Messiah or God will be shown in the sky speak.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
To everyone in their own language.
Speaker 5 (46:29):
The appearance of a new Messiah results in holy wars.
In step two, the new World Order will claim the
holographic images to be proof of their new religion. Step
three telepathic two way electronic thought control and telephonic communication
devices sending waves to people's own mind, convincing each other
that their God is speaking to them through their own soul.
(46:53):
AI data transferred via race from satellites.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
This data is fed.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
From memories of computer that have stored massive data about
every person on Earth, including their languages. Diffuse artificial thought.
These satellite data RaSE assimilate with the natural thoughts of
each person, and then step forward supernatural manifestation by electronic
means in various aspects. The holographic progestion projections continue to
(47:23):
simulate phenomena and strange happenings to reinforce people's faith in
the new universal religion. A holographic simulation by the United
Nations of a hostile invasion of malevolent aliens, provoking nations
to use nuclear weapons against the hostile aliens. A combination
of electric stage phenomena and supernatural forces to drive people
(47:48):
into mass hysteria, suicide, murder, and permanent psychological disorders keep
people in fear, make them believe that the New World
Order is the only protection against the hostile invaders. So
that's the different steps. I mean, what's your take on
this story regarding Project Bluebeam.
Speaker 6 (48:37):
Yeah, when Paul, when the idea of the Project Bluebean
first came out in nineteen ninety three by this Canadian
journalist by the name of Sergemon Ask.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
And by the way, I did correspond.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
Both in nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four with
th timon Has because at that time I wasn't aware
of who he was, but later on I found out
that he was the originator of this. At that time,
it sounded like far out too far out theory. But
(49:18):
it's not far out right now because we have a
lot of technologies that he was talking about, and so.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
You know, it's not a far out thing.
Speaker 6 (49:31):
You mentioned ab an artificial intelligence the AI, and so
these technologies like a holographic you know, projectioning devices and
use of electronic you know, waves and so on, and
to control the minds, these are not outlandish theories. So
(49:54):
at first, in nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four,
when people began talking about Surge monast and the alleged
NASA's Project Blue Being project, you know, I was kind
of hesitant to go along with that theory. But by
(50:16):
and by, as the years went by, I became convinced
that it's not a far out theory.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
And whether or not it's.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
Officially under NASA, I still have question. But you know,
I'm not surprised if this kind of technology can be
used any time, especially when the world is.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
In such a chaotic condition.
Speaker 6 (50:48):
The world is to me right now, if you look
at this world in twenty twenty five, this is such
a disorganized the world we're living in, you know, economically, socially, politically,
you name it. It's just such a disorganized chaos, and
(51:10):
of course, you know.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Project Blue Beam.
Speaker 6 (51:15):
And this kind of idea that the only way to
create some kind of normalty is to create an artificial
threat from outside so real or apparently sounding real that
(51:37):
people will accept it. And so I'm not surprised that
at this moment in time that Project Bluebeams ideas and
its relevance is, you know, it's it's just it seems
like it's plausible. It's plausible by the way, you know, Paul,
(52:03):
you know, I was shocked in nineteen ninety six, nineteen
ninety six when I heard on the news that serge
Monas had a heart attack at his home. And you know,
to me, it still is a mystery, and there's a
lot of mystery about the circumstances of his death at home,
(52:28):
because I believe that well, somebody told.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Me that.
Speaker 6 (52:34):
Before Sergemonaster had a heart attack at home nineteen ninety six,
he had to spend a time in jail for some
for some reason I don't know, he was arrested, but
then he was released and then released his home, and
then that's when he had a massive heart attack.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
And sometimes I question about you know, it's still.
Speaker 6 (53:00):
Have in mind, my mind that he died of a
mister circumstances.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Let's tell you we're living right.
Speaker 6 (53:10):
Now in twenty twenty five. And I did hear from
a lot of people that who says that by the
end of this year, we will be able to know
more about you know, projects like you know, strange projects
that allegedly are going on at certain locations like every
(53:34):
fifty one. Because I have a friend who is an
aerospace you know, investigator, anerospace you know historian by the
name of Jim Goodall, and he said in nineteen.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Eighty three that we don't know at that time.
Speaker 6 (54:04):
He said that we don't know too much about the
real purpose of Area fifty one, but we will know
it in twenty twenty five. That's what he said in
nineteen eighty three. I have the video footage of him
saying that that he had some aerospace connection folks who
(54:27):
say that in twenty twenty five we will know more
about Area fifty one.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
A lot of things will be revealed. So you know, even.
Speaker 6 (54:37):
Though people say that kind of things every year, usually
nothing happens. But you never know, because there's something strange
about this year, especially the direction that we're.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
Going into right now. So anything is possible.
Speaker 6 (54:55):
But the idea of surgemon N asked Project Bluebeing doesn't sound.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Like science fiction to me.
Speaker 6 (55:04):
We do have a lot of technology that's already plausible
to you know, be effectively, you know, produce this kind
of scenario. And as I said, I think I said
before in your program that people like Ronald Reagan and
(55:29):
even Gobertchov had mentioned that the best way to create
a forced unity in this world is to create an
external threat, such as alien threat, whether it's real or not.
That's what they said, whether it's real or not, some
kind of an external threat could be effective in creating
(55:54):
a wide world system that time comes. And even Kissinger,
I believe, said that kind of a thing, and.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
You know that.
Speaker 6 (56:14):
That's why, so I am always open to anything. Even
though we can't see the future, we can see the tendencies,
you know, at least we can see the tendencies, and
it's not a good direction to me that's going on
in the world right now. So I don't know, Maybe
(56:35):
you know, things will happen that will necessitate the creation
of an external set, even possibly sometimes by the end
of this year, who knows.
Speaker 5 (56:49):
Yeah, I mean in terms of like technology.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
I just.
Speaker 5 (56:54):
If people think, like what I read out them steps
are far fetched.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
I mean I'm not saying that the true, but they're not.
They're not far fetched.
Speaker 5 (57:04):
And just reading here about some scientists at the University
of Washington, I think this is from a few years ago,
but Carnegie Mellon University created a brain to brain interface
system that allows one or more people called senders to
influence the decisions of an individual called a receiver, with
(57:26):
the goal of helping the receiver play a tetris like
game that only descenders can see. So so these are
some of the things that they're like looking into, you know,
like mind reading technology and all this type of stuff.
So and clearly the military has you know, well they
had the Internet before we had it, before it was
(57:47):
released to the public, years in advance. So the technology
that you know, the nation's different nations around the world
possess is far in advance of anything that we've got
our hands on right now. So I mean, you know,
something clearly is going on because the you know, like
(58:08):
I sent you that video that was sent to me
from Manchester in the northwest of England. Word is this
for people that haven't seen it. It's on my YouTube channel.
I sent it to Norrio.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
He had a look at it.
Speaker 5 (58:20):
It's not a particularly good video, but you can clearly
see a disc shaped object, which is a large object.
So people are seeing things, but possibly it might be
sort of holographic technology, you know, who knows. Like you've
been saying previously, you know, we don't really have any
tangible evidence.
Speaker 2 (58:43):
I mean, I put a picture up.
Speaker 5 (58:45):
I'll just share it again for people of Jesse more so,
obviously we talked about Roswell and like this picture here
is apparently Jesse Mysell with this from what's from the
apparently the crash site of Roswell. For those of you
(59:06):
that are listening just on audio, you can have a
look at the picture anyway, if you go online and
have a quick look. But it looks basically what he's
got in his hands just looks like Tim Foyle. And
obviously they're saying that this is a weather balloon. And
then you've got the believers that are saying, oh no,
that's just to cover up, that's not real. Day they retrieved,
(59:29):
you know, a disc, but no one's produced any evidence
or no they've not, you know, no government.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
Around the world has wheeled out.
Speaker 5 (59:37):
You know, flying saucer and said oh we've got one
or whatever. And then, like you said about the congressional hearings,
you've got these characters, you know, like this David Grosh
and this Commander Favor, and then you've got these characters
sat behind like Jeremy Corbell is it And these guys
are supposedly whistleblowers saying, oh, yeah, we've got non human technology,
(01:00:04):
but basically he's never seen it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
And apparently they've retrieved.
Speaker 5 (01:00:08):
Not only various non human technology, you know, items such
as spacecraft or whatever you want to call them, but
they've also got the pilots, which are obviously then basically
the saying that the non human but like you've been saying,
nothing tangible has been produced. So for me, it's a
conditioning process, that's my assessment of it, and that congressional
(01:00:33):
hearing for me, seems to be another step in that
process from sort of the Hollywood movies are conditioning us.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I mean, I like science fiction.
Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
I've said this before, My listeners know this. I like
science fiction. I used to watch The X Files, I
like Star Wars things like that. I do like science fiction,
but I can sort of see how the conditioning people
to accept you know, little green men from other planets.
And I feel like, well, I believe that possibly these
(01:01:03):
congressional hearings were part of that process being stepped up,
sort of being brought more into let's say, the real world,
because everyone else, even though there's this sort of subconscious
conditioning through films through Hollywood, this this congressional hearing is
is obviously I think a stronger sort of sort of
(01:01:25):
conditioning because now you're getting sort of real life people coming.
Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Out and saying these things.
Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
I mean, what, what's your take on them hearings?
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Do you do?
Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
You just think these guys are just you know, they've
been They're just sort of front men being used to
push a certain narrative.
Speaker 6 (01:01:47):
Working about it. That's what I think. It's that these people,
these characters are being used for conditioning processes. As you said, exactly,
we are slowly being conditioned every year to certain things.
(01:02:08):
Believing in certain things and belief in the physical alien
presence is one of those conditioning process and you know,
so you know, I've studied the year phenomena for many,
many years, and yet even I myself have not seen
(01:02:29):
anything that I could say was terrestrial at all. And
so you know, people coim things and the reality to
each person is different, different, and so you know, perhaps
(01:02:54):
that some government tool agencies can force an alternate reality
to some people for some kind of a purpose brainwashing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
So you know that I still keep that.
Speaker 6 (01:03:11):
Theory, you know, keep open to that theory until the
day comes when if these.
Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Entities really exist, then it.
Speaker 6 (01:03:24):
Will be them who will initiate the global disclosure of themselves.
Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
And yet it hasn't happened.
Speaker 6 (01:03:32):
And but that does not mean that they aren't here,
even non physically.
Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
So who's to say, you know what you know. And but.
Speaker 6 (01:03:48):
As long as we keep our two feet on the
ground and talk about this, I think it's good, you know,
because it makes us think. And that's what I uh,
I'm interested in people thinking instead just taking everything for granted.
And we're living in this age of internet, and the
(01:04:15):
Internet is one of the most damaging source of uh
uh you know, acquiring uh what some people believe to
be reality. In fact, some people only believe in the
Internet and uh you know, but of course there's so
much good in this internet system and the information uh technology,
(01:04:39):
but it has a good and bad you know, elements,
and so it's the discernment. I think everybody needs to
have a good discernment in our mind to separate fake
from reality and the so that's the eternal, eternal you know, study,
(01:05:06):
eternal pursuit to distinguisse between what is fake and what.
Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Is real or what is clausible and so open mind. Yes,
we need an open mind in many ways.
Speaker 6 (01:05:21):
But yet we have to keep our feet on and
around at the same time.
Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
And that's my conclusion. And you know, I will.
Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
Continue to do the research and if anything drastic happens,
you'll be the first one, Paul.
Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
To be involved. If I find anything drastic.
Speaker 5 (01:05:44):
No, you have advice is spot on, Noio, you know,
we do need to keep our feet on the ground.
We need to acknowledge, Yes, something's going on here. It's
clearly some kind of deception. We don't know how it's
really going to play out. I'd stay clear of the
sense sational list and the dogmatic people who are saying
this is what it is, and you know, and people
(01:06:06):
who claim that maybe they've seen you know, a flight,
like actually seen one at some base or whatever. I'd
stay clear of those types of people. And like you said,
you're doing research. I always encourage people do your own research.
Don't take what me and Norio were saying, you know,
just at phase value. We've looked into it. I've not
(01:06:29):
been looking into it for as many years as Norio has,
but my understanding of the phenomena has changed, and there's
a lot of deception out there.
Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
There's a lot of misinformation.
Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
But one thing I would add is don't get too
caught up with it, put it in its proper place,
and spend time with your family because time's very, very
precious to all of us. It's our most precious commodity
that God's given us. And I have said this before
on here. Obviously I do this podcast and I look
(01:07:02):
into all kinds of topics, but I'm mindful as to
not get sucking you know, and just disappear down these
rabbit holes. The UFO phenomena is fascinating, and like I said,
you know earlier, I like science fiction and I could
easily get sucked in. But as I've got older, I
have exercised self disciplined by the grace of God, and
(01:07:24):
it is important to take time out, spend with your family. Soul,
and number one be praying and reading the Bible and
being in that first and foremost, and then when you've
got time, do some research into the things that interest you.
So Noo, it's been wonderful again speaking to you. And
(01:07:48):
just before you go, just remind people about your website
and also your YouTube channel because you do put obviously
videos on the quite regular.
Speaker 6 (01:07:59):
Anybody can contact me simply by email Orio Makawa at
gmail dot com, or you can look at my many
of the articles I've written, and it's at Noriohkawa dot
WordPress dot com. And the latest article I posted recently
(01:08:23):
is about a strange incident that took place in nineteen
fifty seven in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It was one of
those incidents where it's called broken arrow incident in which
you know, almost had a you know, very dangerous situation,
(01:08:48):
and I have an article. The latest article is about
the nineteen fifty seven near doomsday incident that took place
in Albuquerque, New Mexico, whereby the Air Force bomber playing
while landing on Kirkland Air Force Base accidentally dropped Mark
(01:09:10):
seventeen hydrogen bomb that you know, came out of the
bomb bay door. But fortunately the mechanism to ignite that
hydrogen bomb was not in the same area, it was
different part of the airplane, but we were spared this
(01:09:33):
almost catastrophic incident in nineteen fifty seven. So people can't
read about that and just go to Norrihayakawa dot WordPress
dot com and you can see everything. And so anyway,
thanks so much, Paul. It's always a great pleasure to
be on your well balanced show. I think you're one
(01:09:56):
of the hosts that presents a very well balanced view
of things and that's why I appreciate, you know, being
with the program.
Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
Thank you so much of Paul.
Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
No, it's it's it's a real pleasure in Norio to
have you on. And I would encourage people to read
Norio's articles because he does have you know, he has
an honest approach to this UFO phenomena, which not all
researchers do, as Norio himself can probably testify to that.
But Norio has an honest approach to it, and you know,
(01:10:32):
he's got the years under his belt, he's put the
time in, so we're you know, you deserve respect for that, Norio. Anyway,
So guys, it's a fascinating topic topic to look into.
Is the UFO phenomena. It's multifaceted. There's all kinds of
sort of strands to it. You know, you've got your
crop circles. There's the cattle mutilation obviously, there's supposed crash retrievals.
Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
There's all kinds of things.
Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
But like I said, you know, search it yourself, don't
spend too much time in it. Spend time with your family,
spend time if you're a Christian, praying, reading the Bible,
and then do some research because it is an important
topic and we are living in days of great deception,
misinformation lies.
Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
So thanks again.
Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
No, yo, guys, I'm going to be back God Willing
next week with a new guest. I'm Paul, and this
is beyond the paradigm.
Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
My crazy.
Speaker 6 (01:11:32):
We don't use that word in here.
Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
S S
Speaker 6 (01:12:23):
S S S
M You're here because you know something. What you know
you can't explain, but you feel it. You felt it
your entire life. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The matrix?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I had dreams that weren't just dreams. We accept the
reality of the world with which we're presented. It's as
simple as that. Billions of people just living out their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oblivious, they talks. You're good, Hey, do you believe their world?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
You can deny all the things I've seen, all the
things I've discovered, not for once long because too many
others know what's happening, and and no one, no government agency,
has jurisdiction over the truth.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
Hello, and welcome to Beyond the Paradigm. I'm your host,
Paul Brakel. It is a pleasure once again to be
back with you with a new episode, and today's episode
is an interview with a returning guest.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Nor Higher Cower.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
No Rio has been researching the UFO phenomena for over
fifty years. But just before we get into the actual interview,
just want to remind people that the best way to
support this show is to first of all, follow the
show and then leave the show of rating. As I've
said before, there are many many podcasts out there, so
(01:45):
if you leave a five star rating, if you do
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support the show financially by signing up to become a
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Prevost has decided to do. Forgive me Tim if I've
(02:07):
pronounced your surname incorrectly, but thank you for signing up
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on my Patreon. It's very much appreciated, so thank you
for listening and thank you for signing up. Second way
that you can support the show financially, you can make
a one off donation at buying meocoffee dot com and
(02:27):
there is some very kind people who have done that
in the past, and as usual, I will leave the
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on Instagram. I've mentioned this previously obviously it's the same
name Beyond the Paradigm, and I do post quite a
lot of short videos on there. I am on Twitter,
but I am shadow band on there, so I think
(02:47):
that a lot of my posts that I do put
on there, they don't get seen by very many people,
But on Instagram it seems to be some of my
videos definitely have been seen by a lot of people.
I've had a couple go viral which attracted a number
of new followers on there. So if you want to
just take a look on that and watch some of
my short videos, that'd be very much appreciated. If you
(03:08):
follow me on Instagram, and that's also linked to my Facebook.
I don't really actively use the Facebook other than linking
my Instagram videos to my page on there. So if
you don't have Instagram but you have Facebook, you can
follow me on there and you'll also see the videos
that I do on Instagram appear on Facebook as well.
(03:29):
So the Octopus Murders, first of all, why am I
doing an episode on this and what are the Octopus Murders? Well,
first of all, my guest noriok does have some links
to the Octopus Murders in terms of some of the
people that was involved in the documentary and some of
(03:50):
the names mentioned in the documentary on Netflix. And for
those people who are unaware of what the Octopus Murders is,
it sa a documentary on Netflix, and the Octopus Murders
refers to the mysterious death of a journalist named Danny
Cassilliro in nineteen ninety one and the complex conspiracy theories
(04:13):
he was investigating at the time. Cassilero was found dead
in a hotel room in Mortonsburg, West Virginia, with multiple
slashes to his wrist, and while his death was officially
ruled as suicide, his family and colleagues of long suspected
foul play, believing he was killed due to his investigation
into what he termed the Octopus, a purported clandestine network
(04:40):
with tentacles reaching into various global scandals, and Cassilero's research
centered on several interconnected controversies. The Inslaw Promised Software scandal,
which allegations that in the United States Department of Justice
misappropriated software developed by Inslaugh Inc. Leading to claims of
(05:04):
illegal distribution and use by government agencies. The Iran contrafer
which is the political scandal involving the secret sale of
arms to Iran to fund Contra rebels in Nicaragua during
the Reagan administration. October Surprise theory, allegations that representatives associated
(05:25):
with Ronald Reagan's nineteen eighty presidential campaign conspired to delay
the release of American hostages in Iran to affect the
outcome of the election. Bank and Credit Commerce International scandal,
a major international bank.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Involved in money laundering and.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Other illegal activities with alleged connections to intelligence agencies. Cassilero
believed that these events were not isolated, but interconnected components
of a vast, hidden organization that he dubbed the Octopus.
Untimely death occurred just as he claimed to be nearing
(06:04):
a breakthrough in his investigation, and it has fueled ongoing
speculation and debate, And in the twenty twenty four Netflix
release a four part documentary entitled American Conspiracy That Octopus Murders,
which delves into Cassilliro's death and an intricate web of
conspiracies he was unraveling, and the series revisits his work,
(06:28):
featuring interviews with individuals connected to the case and dramatized
reenactments aiming to shed light on the enduring mysteries surrounding
the Octopus. And like I said, Norio has knowledge of
some of these individuals, and that's why I speak to
him a little bit about it, But the main sort
(06:49):
of thrust of the interview is obviously the UFO phenomena,
and we go into that regarding Project Bluebeam. So I'm
not going to talk any more about what we're doing
talk about. I'm simply just gonna let you listen to
the episode now, guys, hopefully you'll enjoy it. So that's
enough for me, and without further ado, it's time to
(07:09):
bring Norio onto the show well for the second time
on Beyond the Paradigm. It is a real pleasure Norio
to welcome you back. So thank you for joining me again.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Thank you so much Paul for having me on your
show again. I sure appreciate this and I'm excited always
to meet on your show.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, no it.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
It was a great episode last time. A lot of
good feedback from listeners, and one of the comments that
stuck out to me was regarding that they knew you
was a genuine person, very humble, and I would agree
with that, and anyone that's not listened to that first
episode with Norio definitely well worth listening to. Norio is
(07:55):
a UFO researcher. How many years is it, Norio?
Speaker 7 (07:57):
Now you've been researching, well, you know, you searching this
strange phenomenal or the UFO phenomena since nineteen sixty one,
so that's more than definitely sixty years.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Yeah, so Norio, oh yeah, You've got more more time
in this sort of research field than many people. And
I've had other researchers on the show, but one thing
that stands out for me is you are sincere and
you are genuine, and you definitely want to get to
the truth of this like I do. And unfortunately, in
(08:33):
this sort of field, you have a lot of people
who are a sensationalist and seem to be in it
for themselves, as I would imagine you're well aware of
with some of the people you've met over the years,
some of the bigger names that are sort of well
known in this field, particularly over there in the United States.
But a lot of people, in my opinion, are sensationalizing
(08:54):
things because they know that that sort of sells, and people,
you know, I suppose these people out there that want
to believe I'm more just want to.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Know what we're dealing with.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
But the last time we spoke, like there was quite
a few things that I didn't get to talk to
you about, and like I was just we were just
having a little chat there before we went on air.
I don't know if anyone listeners are familiar. Many of
you will be, so may not. There was a documentary
on Netflix entitled American Conspiracy The Octopus Murders, and it
(09:30):
is a fascinating documentary and it's basically regarding the murder
of an investigative journalist, Danny Casilliro.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
But you've you've got some sort.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Of link really to this documentary because you've come across
some of these people, haven't you, that are actually involved
in this.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (09:53):
I was quite impressed with that documentary American Conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
See it was well made.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
And you know, it just captivated the attention of so
many people, and it was a realistic program because it was.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Based on facts.
Speaker 8 (10:18):
And we still don't know the full story of the
entire Octopus conspiracy, but the fact.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Is that that they many of the personalities involved were
real persons, and.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So personally, I became involved somewhat in this.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
Octopus conspiracy because in nineteen ninety two, I believe in
nineteen ninety two, that.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Was when.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
I organized a large group of utiful and conspiracy enthusiasts
and we held a large meeting in southern California, and.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
At that time I was, you know, I was.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
Just so interested in this intrigue and so uh huh.
Right around the time of the conference, I came to
know some key personalities such as Ted Gnderson, who was
the former FBI agent in charge.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Of Los Angeles.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
And Ted Gonderson, by the way, was the instrumental PI
agent who successfully u you know, kept the nineteen eighty
four Los Angeles Olympics, you know, in in a very
safe manner. But then, of course later on he retired
(12:19):
and he became the researcher of real conspiracies.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
And so by the time we held.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
The the you know a seminar in southern California in
nineteen ninety two, I was familiar with Ted Gunnerson, and
I became his friend. So he was instrumental in helping
us organize this need to know seminar in which the
(12:59):
very mysterious group called the wacken Hut Corporation was the
main topic. In fact, that conference was organized by an
individual named mister Mike uh and he was allegedly.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Person that.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Started talking about a group called com twelve. But anyway,
this conference was successful because among the participants in this
conference was several key figures of the wacken Hut Corporation.
Even though the conference was to expose the wacken Hut Corporation, Uh,
(13:52):
you know, several high level people from wacken Hut came.
Maybe they came to observe what we were doing, but
to any anyway, one of the participants who came to
the conference was a former arms merchant named Robert Booth Nichols,
(14:17):
who many people still suspect even today that we may
have played a major role in the death of Danny Castelaro.
So yeah, through the connection with Ted Gunnerson, the FBI
(14:40):
agent retired, I you know, I came to know a
lot of people. In fact, one of the key people
personality in this whole octopus conspiracy with the American conspirat.
He was a scientist by the name of Michael Riconno Schuto,
(15:06):
a strange character who's whereabouts at this time is not certain,
but he was allegedly released from prison several years ago
and we don't know where he is actually, But just
(15:28):
around nineteen ninety two I had spoken briefly, or rather
I was introduced to the wife of Michael Riconno Shooto
and Michael Riconno Shooto's wife happened to attend a utiful
(15:49):
conference that I organized in Orange County sometime in the
early nineteen ninety two. I think from what im so, yeah,
I in this sense, I I'm still just wondering.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
What happened to this strange organization.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Wackenhart Corporation, which was a large corporation in the nineteen
nineties that were was in charge of security at sensitive
locations such as Give Me every Day one in Nevada
and many other military installations. Wackenhart Corporation was a private
(16:42):
company that was assigned to take care of security. Because
of their private you know group, they were not you know,
bound by certain things. So many military installations in America
(17:09):
decide to decided to hire the semi uhh well, decided
to hire semi private security corporations. Then this is I
would say, somewhat logical thing to do.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
They can distance themselves count of the government, that's the thing.
If it's if it's a private company, they can if
anything untoward goes on, they can say, well it's a
private company. It's it's not really anything to do with us.
We've we've contracted it out and left them to sort
of run things, if you will.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
And I think that they can go. But Wakon Had
Corporation or wh special Security Group I think right now
is involved in conducting private prisons in many places in
(18:15):
the United States and probably overseas as well.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Private prisons.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
That's a big business right now.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
I used to work in prisons service, but it was
for the HMP or His Majesty's Pusiness service. But they
have a number of private prisons over here. And like
you said, it's big, it's big money.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
They don't work.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
They don't work because these companies are just seeking to
make money. Now, Ted Gunderson, like you said, you were
sort of friends with him. I listened to a while back.
It was an old recording where he's talking about basically
(18:58):
sort of child traffic king and the children are traffic
for various reasons, including obviously sexual exploitation but also child sacrifice.
Did he ever mention anything like this to you?
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Really, A lot of people knew about that because Ted
Anderson investigated a lot of those kinds of you know,
strange events, you know, especially there's a place in California
(19:38):
called Manhattan Beach.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
But there were some kind of allegations that.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Some private businesses were involved with, you know, such Henus
project involving children and so other people have also written
books about this, but those were one of the things
(20:11):
that Ted Gunerson was heavily investigating at that time.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
You know. So I'm not a specialist on that, but.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
You know, Ted Gunnison was a very instrumental person because
at first he was not a believer in conspiracies, but
after he retired he investigated some of these claims, and
later on he became a tremendous advocate of you know,
(20:51):
investigations into strange groups that were damaging people and so well.
Later on, Ted Gunnerson became an activist and he participated
in many of.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
The activities where a former colleague.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
Of mine called n J. Hilder was involved, and so
as MEJ. Hilder and I did a lot of things
together with Ted Gunnison, even having.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
The People's Rally.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
At Area fifty one in nineteen ninety eight, and Ted
Gunnison himself attended the People's Rally which I.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Organized in order to confront the.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
United States government to admit the existence of Area fifty one,
not just you know, you know and you know unknown
facility on the Groom Groom Lake in Nevada.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
So we succeeded in many ways because we addressed the issues.
Speaker 6 (22:18):
Of the former workers at Area fifty one who were injured.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
When they came in touch with the.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Toxic chemical substance in the late nineteen eighties and into
the early nineteen nineties, and many of the workers at
Area fifty one died because of these illnesses because apparently
(22:49):
the authorities at places like Area fifty one was using
toxic chemical substances while they were working on stealth technology late.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Nineteen eighties to nineteen nineties.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
So that was the main reason for having this unprecedented
the people's rally in nineteen ninety eight right at the
limits of Area fifty one boundary. About two hundred and
fifty people showed up at the rally, including Ted Gunson
(23:31):
and of course Anthony YJ. Hilllett, And of course both
of these persons are now gone. I mean Anthony JH
then stroke two years ago and it's no longer with us,
and of course Ted guns And passed away also, So
(23:52):
you know, we're left with a very few of the
original people that were involved in all of this.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
So I am kind of fortunate now that I'm still.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
I'm doing well and I'm surviving all these things. And
of course, you know, people like us are getting older
and older.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
But as far.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
As I'm concerned, I'm still delty and I still live
here in the state of New Mexico where I reside,
right yeah, still investigating the claims of you know, secrecy,
(24:44):
especially where I live in Albuquerque, the home of Curtain
and Air Force Space and the home of a large
nuclear storage facility inside the Courtlin Air Force Space. So
these are issues that really still all are very realistic.
And of course, you know, I'm a person that is
(25:11):
based on.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Science.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
I I'm not just a person that believes in anything.
I basically believe in scientific methodology, even in the field
of apology.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
My main.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
Interest is in, you know, promoting the scientific attitude towards
the things. And for example, I believe that the government,
uh the Air Force, for example, has been using a
lot of you know, scientific equipment and uh, you know,
(25:55):
developing lots of the scientific methodologies and creating a lot
of you know, weapon systems and the weapon I'm not
against weapon systems, because many of these weapon systems are
you know, basically for protection of citizens from for example,
(26:17):
foreign adversaries and so on. So I'm all for scientific approaches,
but yet my belief is that not everything can be
explained by science. And so this is where my involvement
in upology comes in, because I believe that there's more too,
(26:40):
you know, materials, materialistic things, and materialistic approach to finding
the truths, and you just can to rely on science
alone because there are many things in this world that
exists that we cannot see. And so that's my basic,
(27:00):
uh you know position even now.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I mean, but you know, you.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Bringing up this, uh the Dandy castlewell or the octopus,
the Americans conspiracy. These are real things, real issues, and
as I said, some of the things involving the American
(27:25):
conspiracies are locations involving Native American reservations. For example, the
Covers Zone covers on Indian Reservation southern California, where scientists
like Michael mcconnish Hutto helped develop you know, pulls into
(27:51):
new kinds of explosives, and so many of these uh,
you know, weapons programs are conducted in uh strangely in uh,
Native American lands. So that's one of the subtopics of
(28:11):
this American conspiracy documentary.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
For those who haven't seen the documentary, it's world worth watching.
And basically Danny Castelliro was investigating was it in slaw
and this software, this promise software. The software was like
a case management software developed by this company called inslaw,
(29:08):
And then he started looking into sort of things to
do with contract disputes I believe it is, and ultimately
it led him sort of down different rabbit holes, didn't
it That could have? It led him to all kinds
of things, which is why it's called the Octopus murders.
And then ultimately he ended up being killed. I mean,
(29:31):
obviously they tried to say that he killed himself, didn't they.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
Right, So this conspiracy is still just a mystery and
still unsolved.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
But there is a dark web of you.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Know, entities, the human entities of course, that are involved
in uh the hideous things experiments. And you know, Michael
Ricono Shooto was a real scientist. He was very smart
(30:12):
and he knew a lot of things, and he even
mentioned one time there's something going on in places like
New Mexico in an Indian reservation called D'll say in
(30:33):
the university, you know Indian reservation, that he carry a
patch Indian reservation. And he even was aware that something
was going on in the community of Lills already in
the nineteen nineties. So you know, this octopus conspiracy stretch
(30:57):
so much, and it is really a huge tentacle of
mysteries that is still going around. And some of these
conspiracy have changed the names, you know, and some of
the organizations have you know, changed names, and that's how
(31:22):
these organizations survived by morphing into other names and involving
other agencies. So it's still there. It's still there, and
so you know it's endless, but we have to do
(31:45):
something about it, even though it's impossible to get to
the bottom of these things.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Yeah, I mean, as I remember from watching it, this
Robert Booth Nichols, he was so of possibly you know,
involved in Danny Castellario's death, but then ultimately he he
was found dead I think in two thousand and nine
in mysterious circumstances as well.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
So you know, people keep disappearing or you don't hear
from these people. Like I said, this uh scientist by
the name of Michael Ricconos youto. Uh. He was released
from a Lampark, California prison, but the circumstances of his
(32:41):
release was very mysterious. Some people say that he was
released you know, on purpose too, you know, either to
protect him or some reason no other.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
We don't know.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
We don't know these things. But you know, I will
never forget this kind of connection.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, yeah, you know to all these personalities, and.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
Somehow UFOs may play a partial role in some of
the ideas presented in this kind of you know, cover ups,
you know. So that's where I am interested. You know,
(33:43):
I'm interested in all these realistic conspiracies. But some of
these conspiracies extend into thinks that we still don't know
too much about in the government, still don't know too
much about, and that involves the the UFO phenomena.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Some of the utiful.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Phenomena could be artificially induced, you know, and so we
just don't know for sure.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Even right now.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
For example, you know, persons like Donald Trump expressed interest
in UFOs many times, but yet he hasn't come up
with any tangible things. And even personalities such as Elon Mosque,
(34:50):
who is into science and technology, he himself hasn't made
any clear statements of about.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
The beautiful phenomena. In fact, he seems like he's very.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Skeptical about extraterrestrial phenomena. So that's what he said even
a few months ago, that he is skeptical about this.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yet.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
You know, well, he's trained in science and so on,
but there are still things that the government cannot take
hold of concretely as far as evidences are concerned. So,
(35:43):
you know, despite the congressional hearings on the UFOs, nothing
has shown up as far as tangible evidence there is.
We haven't seen any tangible evidence of any artifact act yet.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
But many so called.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
Molds or so called informants, alleged informants come out claiming
that they are part of this governmental group that is
investigating UFOs in that they're convinced that the government is
hiding some artifacts.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Despite these claims, we haven't seen.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
Anything solid yet, but that doesn't mean that there's you know,
there aren't any of these mysteries around, because I believe
that there are still mysteries around, you know, and so
I keep searching all of this and living right here
(36:56):
in New Mexico is a blessing because New Mexico itself
is a location of I military experiments and important.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Location.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I mean New Mexico.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
It's like, obviously, I was just going to ask you
what she take on the Roswell incident.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
That took place allegedly nineteen forty seven, and you know,
nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I think I've spoken with you before about.
Speaker 6 (37:38):
The significance of nineteen forty seven, and I came to
the conclusion that nineteen forty seven is the beginning of
the modern day brainwashing system to familiarize us with the
so called alien presence, and so so, whatever happened in
(38:02):
nineteen forty seven in Roswell is still up in the air.
I haven't seen any concrete evidence that Roswell incident had
anything to do with the alien you know, flying sources crashing.
There's no evidence for it.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
You know.
Speaker 6 (38:22):
And but yet there's plenty of evidence that there was
an incident in nineteen forty seven. There were several incidents
in nineteen forty seven involving you know, strange incidents of
something crashing. But you know, it's most likely that, yeah,
(38:49):
it could have been our technology or experiment in some
high altitude reconnaissance equipment that was.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Kept in quiet at that time, So.
Speaker 6 (39:06):
It could have been, you know, staged that way, either
by the government, or.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
If one is to believe in.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
A dimensional intelligence, maybe may have been staged on purpose
by those extra dimensional entities, on purpose to condition us
to believing in the so called alien presence.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
So we still don't know. We still don't know for sure.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
But nineteen forty seven is the modern day beginning of
the belief and a plematization of the belief in the
alien presence of some strange reason weather. You know, of course,
we all know that from time memorial people have.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Reported seeing strange things.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Flying in the air, and this is this was not new,
But I'm talking about the modern day era. I actually
seem to have begun or on nineteen forty seven, you know,
the very the very year that CIA was created, the
very same year that National Security Agency was created.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Air Force was created in nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
So yes, it's still mysterious, it's still up in the air.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
But you know, I've been to Roswell.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
I know a lot of people in Roswell, but I
haven't seen anything so far. But rather than rather than Roswell,
where nothing is happening except for a yearly lunacy called
the Roswell Alien Festival, which is simply money making effort
(41:06):
by the city of Roswelle.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
But you know, but.
Speaker 6 (41:10):
That does not mean that there are unexplainable things that
happens or happened in New Mexico. Elsewhere in New Mexico,
for example, in the Farmington, New Mexico, in nineteen fifty,
hundreds of people witnessed flight of hundreds of metallic objects
(41:34):
in March.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Of nineteen fifty Farmington, New Mexico. And this is known
as the.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
You know, amazing signing of hundreds of metallic n's houses
over the town of Farmington. And people don't talk about
it because most people haven't heard about it. But I
know about it because I was there and I interviewed
(42:03):
some people who who witnessed that incident in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
But other than.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Farmington, there are others still fantastic. I mean, it's fantastically
intriguing places such as northern New Mexico, especially in the
Hi Career Apache Indian Reservation known for the main community
(42:31):
of Duse, where even today people are reporting sightings of
you know, strange military helicopters and strange objects at night,
even encountering strange entities at night. And whether these things
(42:52):
are physical or paraphysical, we don't know. But there are
too many reports of this and go ongoing even now.
So yeah, I am not a debunker of claims of
these local peoples who continue to see these things. So
(43:15):
you know, that is something that I will never stop.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Investigating even today.
Speaker 6 (43:24):
But I'm just as confused as anybody because.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I like to get to the bottom of these things
that you know.
Speaker 6 (43:33):
They are just some things that cannot be explained by
Newtonian science or scientific methods, and so yeah, that's where
I am even right now.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
I think there's a definite conditioning process going on.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I mean, a lot of.
Speaker 5 (43:57):
The guys I speak to and I've interviewed pre they're
sort of a believe that the UFO phenomena is like
a nuts and bolts, you know, nuts and bolts, craft
and aliens and this and that. Well, that's not my belief.
I believe it's part of a greater deception.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Obviously we order is fallen evil.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
Entities, what we call fallen angels, and obviously their leader
is commonly referred to as Satan or the Devil. But
I wanted to just sort of talk a little bit
about Project Bluebeam, because this is an interesting theory that's
(44:38):
I think it were propagated by Surge manest. Basically, Project
Blue Beam the plan to implement a new world order
and a new religion by means of technology. And apparently
the plan has four steps, and a lot of people
believe that we're in the middle of the third step
(45:00):
of this plan. I mean, I'll just look for those
people who don't know what Project Blue Beam is, I'll
just quickly read some of these steps or step one,
break down all archaeological knowledge by means of artificially created earthquakes,
fake discoveries of artifacts, and archaeological findings, to discredit all
(45:21):
fundamental world religions and doctrines, using Hollywood movies to construct
a psychological groundwork that makes people question the origins of
the world and humanity, Preparing and educating people via movies
television about the possibilities of a space alien invasion and
(45:42):
movies such as two thousand and one of Space Odyssey
and Star Trek series, Star Wars movies, movies like Jurassic
part to deal with the theories of evolution, basically the
same that this Step one is to destroy the beliefs
of all Christians.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
And also Muslims.
Speaker 5 (46:01):
Actually, it says Step two is a gigantic space show
using three D optical holograms space based lasers generating satellites
projecting holographic images beamed across the sky. These projections are
different in various parts of the world. The sky projections
will be accordingly to regional national religious faith. A new
(46:24):
Messiah or God will be shown in the sky speak.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
To everyone in their own language.
Speaker 5 (46:29):
The appearance of a new Messiah results in holy wars.
In step two, the new World Order will claim the
holographic images to be proof of their new religion. Step
three telepathic two way electronic thought control and telephonic communication
devices sending waves to people's own mind, convincing each other
that their God is speaking to them through their own soul.
(46:53):
AI data transferred via race from satellites.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
This data is fed.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
From memories of computer that have stored massive data about
every person on Earth, including their languages. Diffuse artificial thought.
These satellite data RaSE assimilate with the natural thoughts of
each person, and then step forward supernatural manifestation by electronic
means in various aspects. The holographic progestion projections continue to
(47:23):
simulate phenomena and strange happenings to reinforce people's faith in
the new universal religion. A holographic simulation by the United
Nations of a hostile invasion of malevolent aliens, provoking nations
to use nuclear weapons against the hostile aliens. A combination
of electric stage phenomena and supernatural forces to drive people
(47:48):
into mass hysteria, suicide, murder, and permanent psychological disorders keep
people in fear, make them believe that the New World
Order is the only protection against the hostile invaders. So
that's the different steps. I mean, what's your take on
this story regarding Project Bluebeam.
Speaker 6 (48:37):
Yeah, when Paul, when the idea of the Project Bluebean
first came out in nineteen ninety three by this Canadian
journalist by the name of Sergemon Ask.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
And by the way, I did correspond.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
Both in nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four with
th timon Has because at that time I wasn't aware
of who he was, but later on I found out
that he was the originator of this. At that time,
it sounded like far out too far out theory. But
(49:18):
it's not far out right now because we have a
lot of technologies that he was talking about, and so.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
You know, it's not a far out thing.
Speaker 6 (49:31):
You mentioned ab an artificial intelligence the AI, and so
these technologies like a holographic you know, projectioning devices and
use of electronic you know, waves and so on, and
to control the minds, these are not outlandish theories. So
(49:54):
at first, in nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four,
when people began talking about Surge monast and the alleged
NASA's Project Blue Being project, you know, I was kind
of hesitant to go along with that theory. But by
(50:16):
and by, as the years went by, I became convinced
that it's not a far out theory.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
And whether or not it's.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
Officially under NASA, I still have question. But you know,
I'm not surprised if this kind of technology can be
used any time, especially when the world is.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
In such a chaotic condition.
Speaker 6 (50:48):
The world is to me right now, if you look
at this world in twenty twenty five, this is such
a disorganized the world we're living in, you know, economically, socially, politically,
you name it. It's just such a disorganized chaos, and
(51:10):
of course, you know.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Project Blue Beam.
Speaker 6 (51:15):
And this kind of idea that the only way to
create some kind of normalty is to create an artificial
threat from outside so real or apparently sounding real that
(51:37):
people will accept it. And so I'm not surprised that
at this moment in time that Project Bluebeams ideas and
its relevance is, you know, it's it's just it seems
like it's plausible. It's plausible by the way, you know, Paul,
(52:03):
you know, I was shocked in nineteen ninety six, nineteen
ninety six when I heard on the news that serge
Monas had a heart attack at his home. And you know,
to me, it still is a mystery, and there's a
lot of mystery about the circumstances of his death at home,
(52:28):
because I believe that well, somebody told.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Me that.
Speaker 6 (52:34):
Before Sergemonaster had a heart attack at home nineteen ninety six,
he had to spend a time in jail for some
for some reason I don't know, he was arrested, but
then he was released and then released his home, and
then that's when he had a massive heart attack.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
And sometimes I question about you know, it's still.
Speaker 6 (53:00):
Have in mind, my mind that he died of a
mister circumstances.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Let's tell you we're living right.
Speaker 6 (53:10):
Now in twenty twenty five. And I did hear from
a lot of people that who says that by the
end of this year, we will be able to know
more about you know, projects like you know, strange projects
that allegedly are going on at certain locations like every
(53:34):
fifty one. Because I have a friend who is an
aerospace you know, investigator, anerospace you know historian by the
name of Jim Goodall, and he said in nineteen.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Eighty three that we don't know at that time.
Speaker 6 (54:04):
He said that we don't know too much about the
real purpose of Area fifty one, but we will know
it in twenty twenty five. That's what he said in
nineteen eighty three. I have the video footage of him
saying that that he had some aerospace connection folks who
(54:27):
say that in twenty twenty five we will know more
about Area fifty one.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
A lot of things will be revealed. So you know, even.
Speaker 6 (54:37):
Though people say that kind of things every year, usually
nothing happens. But you never know, because there's something strange
about this year, especially the direction that we're.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
Going into right now. So anything is possible.
Speaker 6 (54:55):
But the idea of surgemon N asked Project Bluebeing doesn't sound.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Like science fiction to me.
Speaker 6 (55:04):
We do have a lot of technology that's already plausible
to you know, be effectively, you know, produce this kind
of scenario. And as I said, I think I said
before in your program that people like Ronald Reagan and
(55:29):
even Gobertchov had mentioned that the best way to create
a forced unity in this world is to create an
external threat, such as alien threat, whether it's real or not.
That's what they said, whether it's real or not, some
kind of an external threat could be effective in creating
(55:54):
a wide world system that time comes. And even Kissinger,
I believe, said that kind of a thing, and.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
You know that.
Speaker 6 (56:14):
That's why, so I am always open to anything. Even
though we can't see the future, we can see the tendencies,
you know, at least we can see the tendencies, and
it's not a good direction to me that's going on
in the world right now. So I don't know, Maybe
(56:35):
you know, things will happen that will necessitate the creation
of an external set, even possibly sometimes by the end
of this year, who knows.
Speaker 5 (56:49):
Yeah, I mean in terms of like technology.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
I just.
Speaker 5 (56:54):
If people think, like what I read out them steps
are far fetched.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
I mean I'm not saying that the true, but they're not.
They're not far fetched.
Speaker 5 (57:04):
And just reading here about some scientists at the University
of Washington, I think this is from a few years ago,
but Carnegie Mellon University created a brain to brain interface
system that allows one or more people called senders to
influence the decisions of an individual called a receiver, with
(57:26):
the goal of helping the receiver play a tetris like
game that only descenders can see. So so these are
some of the things that they're like looking into, you know,
like mind reading technology and all this type of stuff.
So and clearly the military has you know, well they
had the Internet before we had it, before it was
(57:47):
released to the public, years in advance. So the technology
that you know, the nation's different nations around the world
possess is far in advance of anything that we've got
our hands on right now. So I mean, you know,
something clearly is going on because the you know, like
(58:08):
I sent you that video that was sent to me
from Manchester in the northwest of England. Word is this
for people that haven't seen it. It's on my YouTube channel.
I sent it to Norrio.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
He had a look at it.
Speaker 5 (58:20):
It's not a particularly good video, but you can clearly
see a disc shaped object, which is a large object.
So people are seeing things, but possibly it might be
sort of holographic technology, you know, who knows. Like you've
been saying previously, you know, we don't really have any
tangible evidence.
Speaker 2 (58:43):
I mean, I put a picture up.
Speaker 5 (58:45):
I'll just share it again for people of Jesse more so,
obviously we talked about Roswell and like this picture here
is apparently Jesse Mysell with this from what's from the
apparently the crash site of Roswell. For those of you
(59:06):
that are listening just on audio, you can have a
look at the picture anyway, if you go online and
have a quick look. But it looks basically what he's
got in his hands just looks like Tim Foyle. And
obviously they're saying that this is a weather balloon. And
then you've got the believers that are saying, oh no,
that's just to cover up, that's not real. Day they retrieved,
(59:29):
you know, a disc, but no one's produced any evidence
or no they've not, you know, no government.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
Around the world has wheeled out.
Speaker 5 (59:37):
You know, flying saucer and said oh we've got one
or whatever. And then, like you said about the congressional hearings,
you've got these characters, you know, like this David Grosh
and this Commander Favor, and then you've got these characters
sat behind like Jeremy Corbell is it And these guys
are supposedly whistleblowers saying, oh, yeah, we've got non human technology,
(01:00:04):
but basically he's never seen it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
And apparently they've retrieved.
Speaker 5 (01:00:08):
Not only various non human technology, you know, items such
as spacecraft or whatever you want to call them, but
they've also got the pilots, which are obviously then basically
the saying that the non human but like you've been saying,
nothing tangible has been produced. So for me, it's a
conditioning process, that's my assessment of it, and that congressional
(01:00:33):
hearing for me, seems to be another step in that
process from sort of the Hollywood movies are conditioning us.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I mean, I like science fiction.
Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
I've said this before, My listeners know this. I like
science fiction. I used to watch The X Files, I
like Star Wars things like that. I do like science fiction,
but I can sort of see how the conditioning people
to accept you know, little green men from other planets.
And I feel like, well, I believe that possibly these
(01:01:03):
congressional hearings were part of that process being stepped up,
sort of being brought more into let's say, the real world,
because everyone else, even though there's this sort of subconscious
conditioning through films through Hollywood, this this congressional hearing is
is obviously I think a stronger sort of sort of
(01:01:25):
conditioning because now you're getting sort of real life people coming.
Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Out and saying these things.
Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
I mean, what, what's your take on them hearings?
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Do you do?
Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
You just think these guys are just you know, they've
been They're just sort of front men being used to
push a certain narrative.
Speaker 6 (01:01:47):
Working about it. That's what I think. It's that these people,
these characters are being used for conditioning processes. As you said, exactly,
we are slowly being conditioned every year to certain things.
(01:02:08):
Believing in certain things and belief in the physical alien
presence is one of those conditioning process and you know,
so you know, I've studied the year phenomena for many,
many years, and yet even I myself have not seen
(01:02:29):
anything that I could say was terrestrial at all. And
so you know, people coim things and the reality to
each person is different, different, and so you know, perhaps
(01:02:54):
that some government tool agencies can force an alternate reality
to some people for some kind of a purpose brainwashing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
So you know that I still keep that.
Speaker 6 (01:03:11):
Theory, you know, keep open to that theory until the
day comes when if these.
Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Entities really exist, then it.
Speaker 6 (01:03:24):
Will be them who will initiate the global disclosure of themselves.
Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
And yet it hasn't happened.
Speaker 6 (01:03:32):
And but that does not mean that they aren't here,
even non physically.
Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
So who's to say, you know what you know. And but.
Speaker 6 (01:03:48):
As long as we keep our two feet on the
ground and talk about this, I think it's good, you know,
because it makes us think. And that's what I uh,
I'm interested in people thinking instead just taking everything for granted.
And we're living in this age of internet, and the
(01:04:15):
Internet is one of the most damaging source of uh
uh you know, acquiring uh what some people believe to
be reality. In fact, some people only believe in the
Internet and uh you know, but of course there's so
much good in this internet system and the information uh technology,
(01:04:39):
but it has a good and bad you know, elements,
and so it's the discernment. I think everybody needs to
have a good discernment in our mind to separate fake
from reality and the so that's the eternal, eternal you know, study,
(01:05:06):
eternal pursuit to distinguisse between what is fake and what.
Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Is real or what is clausible and so open mind. Yes,
we need an open mind in many ways.
Speaker 6 (01:05:21):
But yet we have to keep our feet on and
around at the same time.
Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
And that's my conclusion. And you know, I will.
Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
Continue to do the research and if anything drastic happens,
you'll be the first one, Paul.
Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
To be involved. If I find anything drastic.
Speaker 5 (01:05:44):
No, you have advice is spot on, Noio, you know,
we do need to keep our feet on the ground.
We need to acknowledge, Yes, something's going on here. It's
clearly some kind of deception. We don't know how it's
really going to play out. I'd stay clear of the
sense sational list and the dogmatic people who are saying
this is what it is, and you know, and people
(01:06:06):
who claim that maybe they've seen you know, a flight,
like actually seen one at some base or whatever. I'd
stay clear of those types of people. And like you said,
you're doing research. I always encourage people do your own research.
Don't take what me and Norio were saying, you know,
just at phase value. We've looked into it. I've not
(01:06:29):
been looking into it for as many years as Norio has,
but my understanding of the phenomena has changed, and there's
a lot of deception out there.
Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
There's a lot of misinformation.
Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
But one thing I would add is don't get too
caught up with it, put it in its proper place,
and spend time with your family because time's very, very
precious to all of us. It's our most precious commodity
that God's given us. And I have said this before
on here. Obviously I do this podcast and I look
(01:07:02):
into all kinds of topics, but I'm mindful as to
not get sucking you know, and just disappear down these
rabbit holes. The UFO phenomena is fascinating, and like I said,
you know earlier, I like science fiction and I could
easily get sucked in. But as I've got older, I
have exercised self disciplined by the grace of God, and
(01:07:24):
it is important to take time out, spend with your family. Soul,
and number one be praying and reading the Bible and
being in that first and foremost, and then when you've
got time, do some research into the things that interest you.
So Noo, it's been wonderful again speaking to you. And
(01:07:48):
just before you go, just remind people about your website
and also your YouTube channel because you do put obviously
videos on the quite regular.
Speaker 6 (01:07:59):
Anybody can contact me simply by email Orio Makawa at
gmail dot com, or you can look at my many
of the articles I've written, and it's at Noriohkawa dot
WordPress dot com. And the latest article I posted recently
(01:08:23):
is about a strange incident that took place in nineteen
fifty seven in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It was one of
those incidents where it's called broken arrow incident in which
you know, almost had a you know, very dangerous situation,
(01:08:48):
and I have an article. The latest article is about
the nineteen fifty seven near doomsday incident that took place
in Albuquerque, New Mexico, whereby the Air Force bomber playing
while landing on Kirkland Air Force Base accidentally dropped Mark
(01:09:10):
seventeen hydrogen bomb that you know, came out of the
bomb bay door. But fortunately the mechanism to ignite that
hydrogen bomb was not in the same area, it was
different part of the airplane, but we were spared this
(01:09:33):
almost catastrophic incident in nineteen fifty seven. So people can't
read about that and just go to Norrihayakawa dot WordPress
dot com and you can see everything. And so anyway,
thanks so much, Paul. It's always a great pleasure to
be on your well balanced show. I think you're one
(01:09:56):
of the hosts that presents a very well balanced view
of things and that's why I appreciate, you know, being
with the program.
Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
Thank you so much of Paul.
Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
No, it's it's it's a real pleasure in Norio to
have you on. And I would encourage people to read
Norio's articles because he does have you know, he has
an honest approach to this UFO phenomena, which not all
researchers do, as Norio himself can probably testify to that.
But Norio has an honest approach to it, and you know,
(01:10:32):
he's got the years under his belt, he's put the
time in, so we're you know, you deserve respect for that, Norio. Anyway,
So guys, it's a fascinating topic topic to look into.
Is the UFO phenomena. It's multifaceted. There's all kinds of
sort of strands to it. You know, you've got your
crop circles. There's the cattle mutilation obviously, there's supposed crash retrievals.
Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
There's all kinds of things.
Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
But like I said, you know, search it yourself, don't
spend too much time in it. Spend time with your family,
spend time if you're a Christian, praying, reading the Bible,
and then do some research because it is an important
topic and we are living in days of great deception,
misinformation lies.
Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
So thanks again.
Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
No, yo, guys, I'm going to be back God Willing
next week with a new guest. I'm Paul, and this
is beyond the paradigm.
Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
My crazy.
Speaker 6 (01:11:32):
We don't use that word in here.
Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
S S
Speaker 6 (01:12:23):
S S S
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