Nosferatu 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome to another horrifying special review episode of Bill and
Ashley's Terror Theater on the Marquee. This week is twenty
twenty four's Nus Fratu. Join us right after we get
back from seeing what it looks like when you always
skip leg day all that after these ads we have
no control over. Welcome back. I'm Ashley Coffin, joined as

(00:49):
always by my co host and Terror Bill Bria Bill Darling.
How are we today? Uh?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm alright, ash but I gotta tell you I have
seen things in this world that would make Isaac Newton
crawl back into mother's womb.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
All right, let me tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
And joining us on the podcast today for the first
of what we hope might be several times in the future,
we have the co host of This Ends at Prom,
the popular podcast about teen usually teen girl films, which
she co hosts with her wife, Harmony Colangelo. Also written
with Carmeny Colangelo is the book sleep Away Camp on

(01:26):
the nineteen eighty three Slasher classic sleep Away Camp, and
she's also a contributor to Fanguria and one of the
editors at slashfilm dot Com and one of the best
pals you could hope to have bj Colangelo say hello.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Hi, Hi Hia, thank you so much for inviting me
to talk about one of my absolute faves.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Hey, it has been a long time coming.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Billy.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
You want to hit her with the question?

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I got a hit her with the question.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
You know, if you listen to the show, we have
a question for first time guests, which is what was
your first exposure to the horror or first the time
you realized, oh, I love this stuff. What do you
think was that formative experience for you in your youth.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
So it's a combination of two and I love telling
both of these stories. The first one was that when
I was four years old, my mom had just rented
the Stephen Kings It miniseries on VHS, and so I'm
sitting in the living room and my mom is going
to fold laundry and watch it as one does. And
my dad comes into the room and he sees all

(02:28):
of us sitting there, and he looks at my mom
and he looks at me, and he looks at the TV,
and he looks at me and goes, don't you think.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
She's a little young for this?

Speaker 4 (02:36):
And my mom looks at me and looks at the TV,
looks at me again, looks at my dad and goes, yeah,
she'll never remember this, And that is the earliest memory
I have.

Speaker 5 (02:45):
Like I think of the absolute.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Earliest memory, it is watching Stephen King's It while my
mom folded laundry in our living room. So horror has
always been a part of my being, my consciousness. I
do not remember a world with it. But when I
really realized, oh this is for me, it was actually
in a viewing of sleep Away Camp. The you know,

(03:07):
my wife and I ended up writing a book on it.
It's so formative to me. But I was watching the
movie with a group of friends who also had parents
like mine who let their kids watch whatever they wanted.
And it was the first time that I realized that
while we were all watching the same scary movie, what
was scaring all of us was different. I was incredibly
creeped out and upset by the camp cook in ways

(03:30):
that did not scare the boys. One of the kids
in the group was terrified of bees because he's allergic
to bees, so like the hornets thing like really terrified him.
And like a little light switch went off in my
head of like, oh, what scares us is not universal?
But we all do get scared by something, and I
have been just chasing that fascination for the last thirty

(03:52):
years of my life.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Excellent, love that.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, I couldn't have said it better ourselves. Well, welcome
to the show, Bjake, So glad to have you here
right now. I think we're going to jump into a
couple pages of the Ecronomicon for some news.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, what she got to say this week?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, this week I had to mention it just because
they did announce it on Christmas Day. We are recording
this episode a few days after Christmas, and so we
got a surprising announcement. I think we've heard about it before,
but this is the official announcement that the Anaconda franchise
is coming back with of all people, Jack Black and
Paul Rudd, who did a little promotional video for it.

(04:29):
Oh yeah, it's okay with that.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Then.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I don't know what exactly they expect this to be.
I think they're going for a more, let's say of
a Lake Placid tone as opposed to the original Anaconda,
because those two fellas are very well known for their
comedic work. And in the promotional video they posted online
to announce that this new Anaconda will be releasing a
full year from now, on December fifth, twenty twenty five.

(04:56):
They seem to indicate that, Yeah, the tone of this
is probably going to be intentionally me So. I just
recently this past year watched all of the Anaconda franchise.
You can't get more unintentionally funny than the hoff uh
trying to find a CGI snake and I think the
third installment when that happens.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
There's three of those.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
I just remember.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
There's the one and then there's like Orchid Bloods or whatever.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
There's the Hut for the Blood Orchid, which is the
second one, which is directed by Halloween for his twenty
h little So I enjoyed that one. But uh, yeah,
they're third and the fourth one I believe we're direct
to video installments, and the fourth one's a little difficult
to get through. But uh, but so this, you know,
the kind of franchise has nowhere to go but up,
So this could be interesting.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
What do you guys think, Christmas?

Speaker 5 (05:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
That seems like a fourth and July blood Like, I
don't know why. It doesn't feel very christmasy. I would
have dropped it in this.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, if Anaconda as a franchise does feel more summary
than Christmas y right.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
Oh definitely, And listen, I know everybody is very much
tired of taking a pop song and slowing it down
for a horror movie trailer. But if they do not
do that bit with like Nicki Minaj's Anaconda, I will
be pressing charges.

Speaker 5 (06:09):
I will see someone.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
I'll do you one better, BJ. I would be surprised
if Nicki wasn't in the movie somewhere She's going to
be the Anaconda and playing the role of Anaconda is
Nicki Minaj. I will say they're going to have to
do a lot to top mister John Voyd's facial expressions
from the first movie in any.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Sort of comedy. Oh my god, what.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
A beautiful piece of cinema that is, and switching tones completely.
We've been saying, we've been announcing unfortunately a lot of
legends in the horror genre who've left us this year,
and the end of this year is no exception. We
sadly just lost Olivia Hussey, who passed away at the
age of seventy three this past week. And yeah, seventy

(06:54):
three is a little too young to pass away. Really
sorry to hear that everybody's been pouring out love for
her online, especially because it was just.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
The Christmas season.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, it was just the fiftieth anniversary of Black Christmas,
the Popla Clark classic that she is so well remembered for.
And it really is sad that she didn't have a
more robust career.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
She had a long one.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
She was working up until I think a few years ago.
But yeah, she really I really wish she would have
she was popping up on screens more often. But the
ones that she got to do, like Black Christmas of course,
Romeo and Juliet it as well as Psycho, for which
I think is still pretty underrated, especially in terms of sequels.

(07:40):
But yeah, I know you guys both loved her as well.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
I just remember getting to watch Romeo and Juliet in
school and we all had to bring papers home to
get signed to see the titties, and my mom was like,
we bought our movies out the time. I don't care,
but I remember some kids weren't allowed, so they had
to go do something else while well, y'all watched Romeo
and Juliet. Oh, and then I was you know, that
was my first intro to her was probably Romeo and Juliet. Yeah,

(08:05):
but then you know Black Christmas and it, and you're
just like, wow, this chick.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah, yeah, she's There was something about how she just
radiated kindness, even when her characters were you know, when
she's telling Peter like, no, I'm getting an abortion and
you can suck it like it's really there's something just
so kind about her that you realize when you're watching
her that there's a little part of her in all

(08:31):
of her performances. Because everyone's pouring out these beautiful tributes
and across the board, everyone's like, there was nobody kinder
than than Olivia. She was lovely, and so I think
that's what makes it harder. There's a complicated feeling when
a celebrity that you love dies who has since you know,
gone on to become like a total freak in like freak,

(08:52):
not complimentary creep, a freak derogatory sort of way. But
when it's somebody who does have a reputation of being
a genuinely wonderful human being, it makes it that much harder.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
We constantly do the Black Christmas think because she's so
extra when she's answering the phone every time. She's so like,
whenever somebody I'm on the phone, you here, I'll be like, hello,
who is this hello? And we just kind of my husband,
I do it all the time. It's really funny.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
I don't think you can hear the words are the
names Phil and Barb without hearing her? Yeah, yeah, beautiful stuff.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
All right, be Olivia.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well we'll be watching you every year, still, throughout every
holiday season. And that's all the news that's in the
Karyomicon this week.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, we're just going to take a quick little break
and we're going to be right back. And now it
is time for our feature film.

Speaker 5 (09:48):
All right.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
So this movie has been a long time coming. I
remember after seeing The Witch, Robert Beggars, I'd like to
be on first name basis with people, so whatever. Me
and Robert were talking about it and he said he
wanted it to be his second film, and I remember
he was going to have Anya involved from that point,
and I was really looking forward to it. And then

(10:10):
it was just like then the lighthouse came out, and
I was like, well, what happened? What happened? And I
did read an article where he was like, I spent
so many years and so much time and so much
like blood going into this, But I also don't feel
like I feel like an egomaniac thinking that this should
be my second movie. It was something like that, like

(10:31):
it's I have the quote quote it feels ugly and blasphemous,
an ego maniacal and disgusting for a filmmaker in my
place to do Nosferatu next. I was really planning on
it and waiting a while, but that's how fate shook out,
and I was like, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, No, I mean his edgars as a filmmaker. It's
pretty obvious to most of us now that he is.
One of his tropes is that he has such an
attention to detail, such a well of research that he
likes to really delve into with all of his projects.
And I think that's probably where that mentality is coming from.
Where it's I mean, if he had made Nosfaratu second,

(11:07):
you know, the general public weren't going to give a shit.
It wouldn't be like, how dare you mcnos Faratu second?
But you know, there probably would have been a little
bit of backlash from someone who'd only made one feature
at that point, and of course there would be the
fans of Dracula nos Faratu thick and who is this
guy doing a new Dracula. But then again, we've had
so many Draculas, not as many nos faratus, but so
many Draculas over the years that I don't think there
would have been too much of an uproar. But I

(11:29):
think for himself, you know, he's obviously as an artist,
he likes to show a lot of integrity, uh and
and pride in his work. And you know, I guess
these things happen when they do for the you know,
at the right time. It's great really that he had
not just the integrity to say that about himself, but that,
you know, he was still able to make it down
the line and not too far down the lines is

(11:49):
only his fourth feature. But yeah, no, it's great that
he was able to make it, because if he were
saying a shoul it for a second, it seemed like
maybe it wouldn't happen at all.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Ever, so thank goodness it did.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
But yeah, this is of course a remake of the
nineteen twenty two fw MR Now Silent film, which in
turn was unofficially based on Bram Stoker's eighteen I Forgot
the date copied the Bram Stoker Dracula novel, and of

(12:20):
course there's been at least one or two subsequent Nosparatu
films that are actually called Asparautu. But yeah, this one,
in a big way, really feels like a culmination of
the Dracula mythos and everything that surrounds it. So, Bg,
I know you are a vampire fanatic. What was your

(12:41):
take on this?

Speaker 5 (12:41):
All right?

Speaker 4 (12:42):
So I first want to say that I am so
glad that Robert Eggers waited until now to do nos Faratu,
because I do think there would have been a little
bit of like that knee jerk obsession with it that
if this would have been second, I think he probably
would have lost his mind, like trying to make this
oh as good as possible, because there's nothing worse than

(13:04):
when you have a filmmaker who was just like, yeah,
I was pagomachra all these things, and it's like, yeah,
we got it, we understand that, whereas in this case,
I think he's like letting the work speak for itself.
I adored his take on this because there has been
a very interesting evolution of vampirism. I would say, in
like the last twenty years there has been both. You know,

(13:28):
Twilight was a humongous phenomenon, and then a lot of
vampires that came in the wake of Twilight feel very
much like they are a direct response to it of like, no,
we're making them scary again, or we're making them creepy again.
But we can't make them too creepy because we know
there's a market here for people that really want to
like make the beast with two backs with a vampires,
so like, we can't lese that, and so I love that.

(13:51):
Robert Eggers was like, no, I'm making vampires disgusting again,
and you're gonna still be into them, and then you're
gonna feel disgusted by how into them you are. And
I've just been craving that for so long. So yeah,
this was this was very, very, very much what I
wanted out of a Robert Egger's No Sparatu movie.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, I'm glad you brought that up, especially about waiting
and about you know, this reactionary period that we've been
involving the vampire mythos, especially on film in cinema, because
if you try to take a macro view of you know,
the history of a vampires in cinema. You obviously have
to start with, you know, the Silence in Nosferatu. I

(14:33):
believe there was a nineteen ten Dracula adaptation as well
on film. I forget who made that, but you know,
certainly there was interest in putting the vampire character on
film from an early start in the cinema. And then
of course you have the Bella Legocy Todd Browning in
nineteen thirty one Universal Dracula, which really set the tone
for Draculas going forward for quite a while. You know,

(14:55):
the Hammer cycle of films. Obviously we're direct response to universals.
Uh and they of course were concurrent with the Gothic
movement that we're happy that was happening, you know, with
Hammer in England and with filmmakers like Mario Bava and
Italy and Roger Korman and the States. And then of
course you get through to I would say probably Around

(15:15):
Fright Night, which is I know one of your favorite films,
meja is when we get into this post modern era
of Okay, we're kind of understanding, you know, culturally, we
understand the rules quote unquote of the vampire, but we're
remixing them, we're bringing a few with us. We're going
to leave a few behind, but we're going to bring
it to what if they these classical creatures were you know,

(15:35):
present in our modern day and era. Interview with the
Vampire of course, had a little bit of that too,
where you know, these things are immortal, so of course
they're lasting into our modern era. And and of course
you know there was the Dracula two thousands that were
concurrent with the dimension film scream movement of postmodern horror.

(15:58):
I'm trying to think, do you think we're in a
post post modern period with vampires right now?

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Is that where we are?

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Probably what's so interesting to me is so one of
the time periods that you missed in your little timeline
a little bit is the post Hayese code exploitation era
of the vampires, when we start getting you know, a
lot of the European vampires, Lespo's, you know, Daughters of Darkness,
all of these like extremely Glad, that's sexual vampires. Where

(16:25):
vampires are like are they monsters? Yes, but they're monsters
that you really really want to be. And what's interesting
is I think that the era that we're in now
very much feels like a direct response to everything that
came before it, but also we are now taking kind
of a grab bag approach to how we want our
vampires to be, because in the last year we have

(16:46):
something like Abigail, which is a vampire comedy. It's dealing
with a small child, but it also has a lot
of these feelings of it being connected to the universal
monster world well very much. Being radio Silence is like yeah,
and also people low up and it's super funny, like
that's sort of the world. We have Renfield, where it's
like almost like an action comedy take on vampire. But

(17:08):
the presentation of Dracula is like very classic but also
has like the contemporary social commentary on like abusive work environments.
You know, last voage of the Demeter is Dracula takes
a boat ride way more like a classic vampire tale
dealing with that, but the effects are like super involved
in the way that they weren't in years before. So

(17:28):
I feel like people are picking and choosing what they
want out of their vampirism because we have such a
massive history of things to choose from. But what I
also really like is that Dracula as a character is
the most like adapted fictional character throughout any work of literature,
Dracula is the guy, and so we can do anything

(17:50):
that we want with a Dracula if we feel like it.
And I'm gonna like totally butcher this quote. But John
Landis said something once. It was to his fail Sun
at this point, but he was talking about the rules
of vampiism and he was like, you know, what are
what are the rules?

Speaker 5 (18:05):
What can you do with them?

Speaker 4 (18:06):
And it's like, well, you know you have to do this,
and you know they're afraid of garlic and there's no reflection.
And his response was, no, it doesn't matter because they're
not real, Like, you can do whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
With them, do whatever you want.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
And I think that is the era that we're in
now of like, yeah, sure there's rules, but also who cares.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I think that True Blood brought vampires back into people's
like guys a way that other stuff didn't because it
was in the middle of the Twilight stuff. We had
the eighties stuff, but True Blood it didn't just they
were scary vampires. There's all different kinds of vampires. There's
vampires with powers. They're definitely sexy and it's disgusting, and
there was just something really great about what they were

(18:47):
doing with those kinds because it was a very classic
vampire but then it had like the interview with the
vampire where those vampires also had kind of powers. So
it was like pulling all the best stuff I thought
from all of the different vampire lower and then made
what I think is a perfect TV show because that's
my favorite show of all time.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
Yeah, it's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
And do I not know that? Oh my gosh, he
didn't know.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
Yeah, that's my fainite doing vampire.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
TV doesn't get nearly as much credit as it should
because I think about, I'm doing.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
A rewatch off Vampire for the first time.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
I haven't watched Buffy in a very long time, and
I was just watching it these like very first two episodes,
and it's like, God, I love how right out the
gate they totally knew what these vampires should look like
and that yeah, they can wear their like nineties cool,
like business casual outfits, but also they have like the
the brow piece and the fangs and the eyes and
like they're intentionally trying to look monstrous versus a lot

(19:41):
of vampires that I think lean very much. It's like, ooh,
it's very sexy, but a little sharp teeth here. It's like, no,
sometimes they it's good to let them be gross.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah. The reason I brought that whole topic of discussion
up is because I believe that this not Saratu Eggers,
that Saratu is, or maybe perhaps will be in the future,
see as a watershed moment for the vampire, which is
it really does feel like a deliberate culmination of if
you don't want to say the vampire as a whole,
because of course, as we just said, there's tons of

(20:11):
different facets to the vampire, tons of different subsub genres
to the vampire.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
But in terms of the classical quote.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Unquote the Dracula mythosis I said earlier, this does feel
like a Okay, this is where we've gone to so far,
and you know, this is maybe where we can go
from here.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Would you both agree with that?

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Or yeah? I could have had a little bit as sexier,
just a little tiny sexier. And I like Bill Scarsgard.
I was really mad at him, like you know how
I felt about The Crow, but I did watch it
and I thought his performance was horrible. I was like,
I don't know, I started feeling like his stuff was
a little over the top, and then part of me
was like, you just got this role because your brother
is friends with him, so get out of here. Ah.

(20:48):
I took it back and I was like, oh my god.
He gave him a mustache, just like the book. I
was very excited. He was gone. You didn't know what
was Scarsguard. He was just orlock. And I thought that
was because I don't really like Lily rose Up that
much either, and I don't like Nicholas Holt. So I
was going into this like.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
That's right, like that, Yeah, you were worried, Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
And I think Aaron Teller Johnson is a little bit
of an overactor too. But when you put these people
with a director like this, you get the most captivating
performances that you've seen from any of those younger actors.
We all know what to Folk can do, that Goblin
can pop anywhere and just be very you know, like,
which he did through this whole thing. But absolutely I

(21:29):
wanted to see I wanted to see them act because,
like you said, with Renfield, I didn't really like Renfield
and I love Nicholas Cage. I thought it was funny,
you know, had a couple of laughs. But Nicholas Holt,
I was like, you're just doing the same thing you
did in that Warm Bodies movie. You're still not doing
anything different. I loved him in this. I thought it
was fantastic.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Yeah, I think this is a movie that really understands
like what to do with him. I think that Nicholas Holt,
for me, works the best when he's playing like little
weirdos or like sniveling like the favorite yes, or like
sniveling little bottom boys like and that's very much who
he is in this, which is yes, exactly, which is
why I was so disappointed with Redfield because I was like,
oh my god, Nicholas Holt is a Redfield. Oh sloppy

(22:09):
bottom boy, this is gonna be great. And then that's
not his art. I was like, why would you waste that?
So when he's in Nos Frato and he's doing this
where you know, the moral of this movie is basically like,
let me convince you that it's your your idea to
save the day, but you're not doing shitt all, I.

Speaker 5 (22:25):
Was like, this is great. That's exactly who he should
be in this movie. This is perfect for him.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Oh yeah, do we need to say the plot. I
just realized, yeah, let.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Me plot, let me yeah, Okay. In the eighteen thirties,
estate agent Thomas Hudder travels to Transylvania for a fateful
meeting with Count Orlock, a Perspective client. In his absence,
Hudder's new bride, Ellen Boring name, is left under the
care of their friends Friedrich and Anna Harding. Plagued by
horrific visions and increasing senses of dread and the literal plague,

(22:56):
Ellen soon encounters an evil force that is far beyond
her control. Was kind of like the but I was like,
there's so everybody kind of knows the story. Yeah, and
they're okay, off the bat, I'm going to jump all
over the place because I have a question.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yes, what did we.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Think about the beginning the intro of this movie with
her calling out a sixteen year old girl like please,
let mister sweety, can I have a boyfriend? Or whatever
was going on there, and then he called to her
and he's like sweater at me, and she's like, I'll
do it, and then we had a jump what thirty
years I guess. I was like that later, interesting, Yeah,

(23:32):
that is an interest, like because I do like when oh,
I see a picture of her and he's like, Oh,
that girl's beautiful. When he gets there and he smells
like the lilac or the hair, he's like into it.
That also would have worked for me. This beginning thing
was a little interesting. It was an interesting choice. What
did you guys think about it?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Well, as you know me, Ash, I always love to
talk about my number one thing here on the show,
which is transgression, and I do think that it is
an interesting choice, a positive interesting choice. You know, where
you have this woman, this girl at the time, who unwittingly,
you know, conjures up the demon or the devil or
anything like that, and it is because of you know,

(24:09):
you can put a supernatural explanation on that, where it's like, well,
she has these latent powers within herself that she doesn't
know how to use, she doesn't know how to utilize.
Therefore she reaches out with them and touches something that
she shouldn't. There's something very not to bring it back
to a comic book thing, but that's there's something very
gene gray about that in my mind.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
But uh, Bill, she just had her period.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Well, blood is a theme, but it's also you know
that the relationship. I think that there's a lot of
interesting material in this film about the literalization, literalization of
the mythological relationship between beauty and the beast, you know,
where it's this faded, almost you know, destined relationship, where

(24:51):
it's this push and pull of attraction, repulsion.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
You know, death and sex, you know, evil and good.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
And I love starting off the bat with that, and
Agger's kind of I mean really, I mean, I feel
like most great filmmakers use their opening scenes and their
closing scenes to make a statement with both, and you know,
this opening scene makes that statement of like, this is
the kind of film I'm making here where it's really
getting into the broader picture the allegorical essence of the

(25:21):
mythos you know, well as well as I love the
that this scene starts this movie's style of surrealism, you know,
and and the utilization of dream logic and dream like
imagery of like, was this a literal occurrence that happened?

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Was this just her memory of it? Was it both?

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Was it a dream actually that she was having and
you know, was implanted in her mind by Count Oorlock,
you know, or something.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like that, and she is having those Emily Rose style seizures.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, right, is it isn't it? And I love the
ambiguity so that it really captivated me. BJ What do
you think?

Speaker 4 (25:58):
Yeah, I was very taken a back by it at
first because it's like, oh, okay, this is new, what
are we doing here with this? But for me, I
think it lays the groundwork of not just how long
Ellen has been sort of tormented by this desire that
she knows that she has, but also these abilities she has,
because when she has her little breakdown and she's like,
I always knew what I was getting for Christmas, and

(26:19):
I knew when my mother was going to die, Like
that is such a burden for her to carry, But
at the same time, it's a burden that she has
to carry alone because if this woman in this socioeconomic
status at this time period says any of this, she
is a witch and.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
She is being killed totally.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
I think that it's very interesting to be like, at six,
you know, sixteen years old, she has you know, these
overwhelming emotions, you know, likely sexual awakening sort of thing happening,
and this is her for the first time facing Oh,
this is my inevitability, this is my fate, this is
who I am, but no one can know this about
me because this is messed up. Like I like, she
recognizes what it is. And so we're then fast forwarding

(27:01):
to where this seed that has been planted at sixteen
has not just blossomed and given us fruit, but the
fruit is now rotting and you need to uproot this
tree or it's gonna destroy everything around it.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, repressed sexuality and hysteria being to the two things
that kind of tie a lot of the plot lines
together in this. And I will say my only thing,
my only like maybe little qualm with this is that
we didn't take the sexuality a little bit farther, even
if you know, he like they had the little scene
where she freaked out with him, but I would have
really liked to have we put her forefront, you know,

(27:35):
the protagonist forefront, have been fleshed out just a little
bit more, with a little bit more of like sexuality
in I like a little sex with my vampires, you
know what I mean. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, I think that there's a distinction that we could
make or should make with this film, which is there
is a difference between horniness and sexiness. I don't think
that this is a particularly sexy film, but I do
think it's a particularly horny film.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
But then again, that depends how you define those terms.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Oh, vampire Dracula. Stuff has to be horny.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Right, Yeah, you know it's it's it's all there for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
If it's not, then even Twilight torny, you know, right,
because you know it's all about we want to fart
where we can't.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Yeah, yeah, yearning.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
This is the skin of a killer bella.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
But I do think that this film really gets into
a discussion metaphorically, of course, about sexual awakening, specifically kink,
specifically having a particular desire, interest, fetish, whatever that you know,
for the society at this time, but also just for.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Society in general.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
And that concludes today that you don't openly talk about,
you know, in public or even with your friends or
certainly not your family, you know, that sort of thing that.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Is part of you.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
That I think that now, because we are fortunate to
live in a more not fully but more sex positive age,
you know, we don't have as much sexual repression as
we may be used to. But and there's some people
that you know, push it further the other way, where
it's like some some people's entire Twitter accounts are like
this is this is what I've been doing recently, and
you know that sort of vibe where they put that

(29:04):
out there because that's what they want to identify as.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
But yeah, there's there's interesting. You know.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
I think there's still a relevant discussion that this film
brings up about. You know, is is that desire that
you may have within yourself is that necessarily evil? And
so if so or if not? You know, it's more
about I think there's a line that Defoe's character has.
I forget his character's name, it's professor.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
I will not remember anybody's remember and everybody else, Yeah,
I have to.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
I have to look up Dafoe's name here. Hold on.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Uh, if somebody else has it, tell me. Okay, wait
uh Professor Albin Abrahart von Friends.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
You can just call it.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
But he has a line where it's something like the
only way that we can fight the darkness is to
realize the darkness within ourselves and accept that first sort
of idea.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, I like that he thought it was demonic and
that was cool.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, and there's also, you know, one of Lily Rose
Depp's signature scenes in this movie it's been compared.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
To don't compare her to Isabella.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
No, it has been. Sorry, they've talked about it.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
I don't care what anybody says, but nobody has that
darkness behind their eyes like Isabella does it.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Also, you could look at I watched the film again
recently to in prep for this podcast, and you could
look at it as a riff on the sort of
classical demonic possession scene as well, you know, and doing
it without the aid of any real makeup, which is
pretty cool too. And uh so, yeah, so there's there's
all of that in the in the stew as well.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, she was super moist in this movie. I was like,
she is spitting and contorting all over this. Yeah, there's
so much spit.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
Yeah, this movie is very much interested in bodily fluids,
which I love because you can use bodily fluids as
metaphor all day blood obviously the most easy one. But
the fact that every man in this movie cries at
some point, like hard cryes, and it's like, yeah, you're
releasing the tension behind your body, like you're getting all

(31:09):
of these things out of your system in whatever way
that that looks. And so I agree that this is
not a particularly sexy movie, but it is a very
horny movie.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
I think it's a very.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
Carnal movie in that way, because so much of the
desire that we see, like shown on screen is it's functional.
It's like I have to get this out of me
or I'm going to explode, and I don't know what
to do with it because we're not in the seventies
where we have horny vampire orgies with beautiful gowns.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
Like, that's not the world we're in.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
So this is gonna be something I'm gonna feel crappy about,
and then it's going to like possess my entire body
and turn me into a disgusting, writhing monster.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, there's a really healthy amount of male nidity in
the film too, which is also transgressive in its own way.
Of course, very aggers, very aggers, but not even the
orlock Cock sorry I had to say that, but also
the Canak at the beginning where he's doing.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
His little occult spell.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, and just how much like what you said, BJ,
Carnal's a great word for it, because of Yeah, in
this age, we were expecting a lot of layers, a
lot of costumes, a lot of covering up, and so
that nudity is more than justillation. It's there to reveal
more about these characters and what their inner workings are.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I guess Eggers framed that and gave it to Nicholas
Hold as a gift and he has it on his own.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Oh yeah, they saw that.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
Incredible.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, But going back to the sex stuff, because they
do have a couple of questions. I like the scene
where Lily Rose Depp dares you know, Holtz character have
aggressive sex with her. But what's interesting was her wording
during that because She's saying things like you can't please me,
like he like he can or like he does, And
I'm like, well, when did that happen? And like show
him how good you are in this and that. I'm like, so,

(32:56):
did they have like Judge Dread sex?

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Do you mean demolish Man?

Speaker 5 (33:01):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Sorry, Judge, I don't know if Judge Dredd ever had sex.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
Poor guy explains a lot about him.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
So much talking about law in the bedroom, I mean,
come on now, yeah, I think that, Uh, it is
an implication in that scene all alone the film that
her she is, i mean, Ellen is fighting this war
constantly throughout the film for herself, and it's an internal
war that we don't really see externalized, or rather we

(33:33):
don't see depicted other than perhaps the opening scene. But
but her performance, you know, she does do this code
switching where it's like in that one scene, you know,
the first part of the scene, she's trying to you know,
really placate or not playcate, but a sure reassure Thomas
and you know, uh talk about their love and that.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
And then there's that shift at one point where she
starts accusing him of you know, you know what you
sold me for just you know these coins that scene too, Yeah, right,
So it's and then you know, you could say, is
that orlock working as influence on her mind and speaking
through her. Is it just her own inner evil you
know self that's coming out.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
There's a lot of ways to interpret it. I don't
know how you did interpreted it.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
So okay, you're gonna have to follow me on this
because I've thought a lot about this connective tissue between
the two of them sexually, and this is like the
like turn of the century version of what we would
now consider as like phone sex or cyber sex, but
instead of connecting through the phone or connecting through the computer.
It is like just like the psychic link that they have,

(34:40):
you know, from that initial meeting of reaching out into
the darkness and the darkness, you know, touching back where
like I think that this has been going off and
on throughout her life for a very long time, where
this is like like nos, like cut orlock is her
booty call essentially, and like he's the best that she's
ever had. He's the best she's ever gonna get, Like
no one can make her feel this way, And there's

(35:03):
a little bit of anger behind that because it like
this is purely sexual, Like this isn't love, which is
why she spends so much time reassuring Thomas, like but
I love you. You're a great husband, like you're everything
like this is. I've heard so many women in my
life have these conversations with their like shitty boyfriends and
husbands where it's just like, no, I promise you're great,

(35:23):
You're wonderful. Meanwhile, they're telling me in the corner like
oh my god, but she can't fuck and.

Speaker 5 (35:29):
It's terrible and I can't heal with this.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
And I feel like that is what I'm watching with
this relationship, where like she wants it to be good
with Tomas so bad because she knows like Orlock is
not good for you, like Dick bam, yes, but like
he's not good for me, and yet what wins out?

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, well let me hit you with this.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I don't know if this is silly to say, but
is it possibly the platonic ideal of a toxic relationship?
Because Ellen is never prone to saying things like actually,
or like a really good guy if you think about it,
or you know, maybe he's actually kind of right, or
you know, like he's got really cool qualities about it.
She's never trying to make a case for him in
terms of like a person in a toxic relationship might

(36:10):
where it's like, oh, actually, if you if you guys
get to know him outside of work or whatever, you know,
And yet like you were saying, like the Loven is
just that good, you know, it's just like.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
She knows that he's bad news, Like she knows he's
bad news, but also she knows but.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
That's kind of fun.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
Yeah, there's something fun.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
About him being bad news, like right, count Orlock is
He's the version of like, yeah, I don't want to
fuck this person who has a mattress on the floor
in the kitchen. But it's gonna be real good and
have great stories.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Well that's why it was funny, because I kind of
wanted to, you know how. In h Copolis there's a
little bit of a sexual tension between Dracula and Jonathan.
This one I thought was interesting because he does cast
like a spell on him that gets him to sign
the paperwork. Something happened there, yeh, yeah, And then you
know he got i'm gonnaign that contract under durest, which
I don't recommend to anybody, but so he pretty much

(37:04):
signs his wife over and like she belongs to me,
now signs he.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Contracts written in a language that you don't speak, and
you're supposed to sign it.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Do not sign that.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah, he was like crossing his eyes to try to
read it. I'm like, he's like me trying to read
something drunk. When I get the check, I'm like, what
is this? I just sign it?

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
No, And I do think that there is It's not
as pronounced as in Gopola, but I do think that
there is some sort of thing going on between orloc
And and Thomas, you know, even if it's a cuck thing.
You know, even if it's sort of like, you know,
I'm going to take a girl, you know, yeah, right right,
But yeah, no, because of course we have to remember

(37:40):
that Thomas does randomly, not randomly luckily escape, you know,
his his fate was intended to be You're staying here
at the castle and you know, you're going to be
my blood bag for as long as you survive and
then you're out, you know sort of thing. So yeah,
I think that, I mean, orloc Is in this movie especially,
is definitely all about dominance and and ownership.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah. Oh I love when he shows up he's well,
first of all, I didn't even know that was supposed
to be Orlock. When Holt shows up to the castle,
it's like you're opening your own door, Bruce Wayne, you know.
And then he was like sir, and he's like, turns
Joan Crawford immediately and he's like, don't you call me
by anything lower than I should be called. I was like, oh,
it's him. But even from there, he's like the dominance,

(38:24):
the the you know, not grooming, I don't know what
you call it.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, I love that that moment does introduce the element
of class back into it too. Because you know this,
there's this uh it's not always as pronounced in every
Dracul adaptation that you know, this guy comes from old money.
You know, has all these all this wealth and all
this property and all that sort of thing that you
know would impress any any old person.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Who would be a clerk or whatever.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
And you know, that's a great moment when, even though
Thomas is obviously duped into it under false circumstances or
false pretenses, like just the sight of the coins of
the gold is like, uh, you know, okay, that's fine,
you know sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, he's like, where do I sign?

Speaker 3 (39:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (39:11):
A lot of contracts in this movie, though, because like
when Count Orlock drags his ass to Germany and brings
the plague with him just to go confront Ellen about
her verbal contract, you know, and she's got those soulless
eyes and he's like, all right, well, you got three
nights to get your shit together and then I'm coming
backrou I'm going to kill everybody. And you know what
he does, He kills pretty much everybody.

Speaker 5 (39:30):
He's a man of his word.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, let's see what else do we want to talk about.
I we're kind of already there, but I'll bring it
up anyway because it's one of my favorite elements. People
love to talk about Eggers's films as are they intentionally funny?

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Are they not?

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I think it's probably somewhere in the middle. I don't
think that this guy is making stealth comedies. I don't
think he is that fully into you know, this idea
of oh, I'm clowning on my own work sort of thing.
I do think that, you know, given his attention to
detail and his richness of research, and you know, he's
not intending these to be larks, you know. And yet

(40:11):
obviously there's objectively funny stuff in the Lighthouse, and there's
even some you know, a chuckle or two in and Northman.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
I mean, The Witch is pretty bleak movie.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
But the whole end of The Northman, I'm like, where's
going to go fight with your dicks out in front
of the fun with that?

Speaker 2 (40:27):
But I love that what he did with the humor
in this film was this what I feel is a
very meta joke where uh, everybody is very because this
film is you know, one of its major themes is
destiny is fate and how all of these characters, either
implicitly or explicitly in Ellen's case, understand where they're headed.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
You know.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
One of the first I think the second scene of
the movie, Ellen says he's already got the job.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
He's going to be set off soon. You know.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
It's like she's read the script. That's very Wes Craven's
Noon Nightmare. You know, that's that's that's this idea of like,
I see my pathlete out before me, and you know,
there's no avoiding it. But I love how much Thomas
is both the implicit and explicit butt of the joke,
to the point where the Gypsies literally laugh in his
face for a full minute.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I think it is dude, that might have been the
sexiest scene. I was like, what city in Romania is this?
Because everybody's hot?

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Right, And it's just that I love the and you know,
this is maybe before if an audience isn't familiar with
the story thus far, they might not get it on
a first watch, but in a second watch it really
hits in terms of like, oh, they all I understand
this guy's a fool and a cock and about to
you know, be made the butt of the joke for
the rest of the story, you know, sort of.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Well, it's like besides the one, they were all like
in the other iterations of this, even like the wolf
Man they're like, please don't go, don't do it. Dah
da da da dah. They were very much more like
American werewolf in London in this where they're like, oh,
maybe you shouldn't go, but I don't really care. Except
for the one lady, they didn't really care. And I
was like, that's kind of fun because how many idiots
do you see pastor your town and go get sucked
buy the count. Yeah, it's like, well, at least it's

(42:02):
not my child, so somebody's keeping them, you know, filled up?

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Oh, speaking of the way, so there's no neck biting
in this. I thought that was crazy. And we're going
right for the heart and.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Well wait in the ship, Yeah there is a neck
bite in the ship.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Oh, well, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do because he's
behind him, and you know, you got to take out
the guy who's trying to take you out the way.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Well, and I think it's the Eggers magic on the
way that he shoots the shots is so disgusting and
just it's the sound of when he's feedings. I'm like that,
first of all, Lily Rose depth would be dry in
two minutes if you were really stuck an her down
like that.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah. Yeah, the slurping or the schlipping, Yeah, the whole, the.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
Whole, Like, yeah, it's not it's not even the slurping,
it's the digesting sound that I just like it. It
sounds a lot like when little kids are eating when
they have a cold and they can't breathe out of
their nose and like you just hear everything. You're like, oh,
I hate this so much, but I love because it
is like we're going straight for the heart. Obviously it's

(43:04):
more sexual because then it's like you're just going for
titty blood. And I remember seeing like Interview with the
Vampire for like the first time when he goes for
the women in the brothel in the boom.

Speaker 5 (43:14):
And I was like, oh my god. And then yeah,
this being.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
A whole movie is like this is a great choice.
I love this and I love that it is. There's
no such thing as a heterosexual vampire. They do not exist.
They are all some flavor of queer and the same
goes with orloc and I love that for him, But
I love just just this ending where the sun comes
up and you definitely watch him go I guess this

(43:38):
is how I go. It just goes back to feasting
and it is just like he's so relaxed, like he's
been there for a while, Like it's it's fantastic.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
I absolutely love it.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
She's like more and he's like, oh shit, she is
in this.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
If we're if we're going on metaphors here, then yeah,
that moment is when orloc if he was in a
relationship with someone else who was like, you know, I'm
supposed to be I'm supposed to be back home by now,
or I'm supposed to be.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
At work in five minutes. I forget it.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
You know, Yeah, well I know it's kind of a
dumb question, but I know that this is the nos
Frato is the first thing that introduced that vampires could
be killed by sunlight in the show. But I was like,
are we leaving it? Like does he know that the
sun would kill him? Like I know that he's in
his coffin and this and that, But there was like
kind of like when the sun hits him, which was
such a beautiful shot, Oh my god, he looked so cool,

(44:29):
and I was like, I wonder if he doesn't exactly
know what's going to happen. But I don't know. I
guess he probably would. I just felt it was kind
of open.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
It is open.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
I do think, you know, obviously I was saying earlier,
there's a lot of ambiguity in this is I think
there is an all great horror. I I kind of
love that interpretation in terms of, like, because so much
of this movie is about tradition, myth, superstition, belief, you know,
faith and that sort of thing. I would love it
if somewhere in Erlac's mind he maybe is thinking, like,

(44:58):
you know what, I've never been out in the su
light before.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Maybe it's fine, Maybe it's okay, maybe it's cool.

Speaker 4 (45:03):
I think it's like he knows that it's not good
for him, but he doesn't know how bad it's going
to be.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Oh that's it.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
So it's kind of like, okay, well we'll test these
waters here a little bit, because like this is too
good and I'm not letting this go anytime soon.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
And if this is how I go, this is how
I go.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, the shots I think my favorite shot besides honestly,
the last like ten minutes with him feeding on her
and the sun coming up is probably the best shots
in the movie. But when Nicholas Holt is going up
to the castle and it's nothing but snow and dark,
and then there's just that light with the snow falling
down very slowly, I live for shots like that. The

(45:42):
cinematography all the little things was so beautiful. And I
think it's this I can't remember his name, but it's
the same guy that he uses because his movies have
a feel.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
No, it's Jaron Blashke or Blashka. I'm not sure how
to pronounce it, but yeah, he and Eggers have worked
together pretty much their whole ruse or Eggers' whole career,
and so yeah, they obviously have a shorthand they have
a real great working relationship together. I am particularly obsessed
with a lot of the compositions in the film. You know, Eggers,

(46:15):
I'm not. I wouldn't go so far as to say
he's a Ridley Scott or a Stanley Kubrick where it's
like every frame of painting sort of thing, but he
obviously does want to pay attention to detail. In his
compositions and trying to make each one as visually interesting
as possible without going overboard. But the way that you know,
sometimes we'll have pov angles of like, you know, moving
through the castle, we're not quite sure which characters pov

(46:37):
we're seeing from until a moment later. Sometimes that'll shift
dur in the middle of the scene, you know, his
sense of space where it's like we're not always sure
where Orlock is in the room, even though we know
he's somewhere around, because obviously he has some sort of
ability to not teleport but maybe.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Move very quickly, you know, or you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
And of course the visual palette of the too where
so much of it it's not full on like desaturation,
but I mean the way that a lot of the
sets seem to be decorated almost monochromatically, and you know,
to give you that sense of is this black and white?

Speaker 3 (47:13):
No, it's clearly color.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
But several cocktails before this movie and I remember being like,
is this movie black and white? Or is it not
black and white?

Speaker 3 (47:20):
What you should have gone and asked the MANAGERSH.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
Yeah, I desperately, I desperately want to take my wife
to see this and like she's not much of like
an Eggar's girl, because she is remarkably adhd and has
no patience for the intentional pacing of his movies.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
But she's color blind.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
And so I really want to see like what it
looks like through her eyes of like, are you even
picking up on like these subtle color changes, because that's
usually what's difficult for her, because like it messes with
my mind and I can see all of the colors.
I'm very curious what this looks like to somebody who
struggles a little bit like that, because yeah, like I
am also not one hundred percent if it's like at

(48:00):
the point yet where it's every frame of painting. But
there are like the most beautiful things I've seen in
film this year, Like eight of the ten of them
are in this movie. It's so so gorgeous, and you know,
to the composition. I think there's even a lot of
humor in the composition of a lot of these beautiful shots.
I like, especially when you know, Willem Dafoe is talking

(48:20):
to Lilli Ro's Depp and they're like, you know, come over, hero,
let's go on this alley and have a conversation. And
you can like very like just make out in the background.
The people that are like Thomas should be like, what.

Speaker 5 (48:32):
Do we do in here? Man? Like we got we
got things to do? Like it's so unintentional.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Yeah, it's like it's so funny because you've got the
two people who know exactly what's going on and what
needs to be done, and then you pour Thomas in
the back, who is about to have his hero moment
that's not actually a hero moment. I'm like, this is great,
this is so funny. I think Robert Eggers is like
genuinely a funny guy, but I don't think he's a
guy who like puts comedy forward, Like he doesn't want

(48:59):
people to be like, yeah, congratulate me on this joke.
He's just gonna let it happen and walk away and
not acknowledge it. And I really like that about him.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Oh yeah, you can tell from interviews that he's just
like cool and everybody likes working with him. And I
liked seeing him work with this younger. I mean, I
guess he always kind of had like Anya around and
it was weird to see, you know. I was like, Oh,
that's your girl. What do we feel? Do you think
you would have liked an Anya Taylor joy Allen over

(49:27):
e Lily Rose depth.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Of course, I would have liked it because Anya is
a fantastic actress. I will give a lot of props
to Lily here because I like you, Ash. I wasn't
really sold on her as an actress before this, just
because I hadn't been familiar with too much for work
and you know, something like the idol is not a
great calling card for anyone. But yeah, so when I
saw this, my expectations were fairly low, and I was

(49:52):
really taken aback by just how much presence she has,
how much obvious dedication to her raft that she has,
and willingness to you know, leap off the deep end
and look not goofy but you know insane, uh, you know,
without without any sort of real vanity there. And I
do think that her mixture of frailty, you know, vulnerability,

(50:17):
but also determination and uh surprising sort of almost catlike
uh strength, you know, really serves the character as written.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Well.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
I think Anya, you know, she would have played it
differently obviously, and and she probably would have been a
bit stronger from the jump, you know, because Anya does
have that furiosa in her, you know, and uh, yeah,
so it would have been interesting. But I do think
that that the way that the film turned out with
Lily in the in the lead is really special and
will probably you know, elevate her career hopefully.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
I've been going back and forth on this quite a
bit because I love Anya Taylor Joy so very much,
but I think I am happier with Lilliro's dep in
this role because they're is something about Lily Rose dep
who before this, her two most you know, mainstream roles
or ones that people know her from the most is
The Idol, a show that is, you know, infamously atrocious.

Speaker 5 (51:12):
That people just dodge.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
It's so bad.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
It's like she tried her hardest, but that material is whack.
And then before that you have Yoga Hosers, where everyone
was like, oh, this is just a vanity project for
NEPO babies and so, which I also think is incredibly
disrespectful to Uh also Harley Quinn Smith, because I genuinely
think she's a good actress.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Oh I forgot about that movie.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
So I think like the two of them are actually
doing a lot of like very understated comedy that they
don't get credit for.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
But that's either here nor there.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
So what we then have is we have an actress
who has everything stacked against her. Between you weren't the
first person that was supposed to play this, and it's
very public that you were not the first choice for
this role. Your last project is a joke, your project
before that is considered a vanity project. And also your
dad is one of the most common to rucal figures

(52:01):
in public right now. So she has so much riding
on this that I think she threw everything she had
into it because she knew this is my moment, Like
if I do not nail this, it's over for me.
And like, sure she'll be financially fine for the rest
of her life, but if she wants to be taken
seriously as a performer, this is her time, and she
took it.

Speaker 5 (52:21):
And I love Anya Taylor Joy.

Speaker 4 (52:23):
I don't think that like Rawness would have been there,
because this would have been just another really awesome role
for her to play and she would have been great.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
But there is you know, I'll go back to carnal.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
There is something carnal, borderline feral about Lily Roe's dep
in this movie.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Did you see the movie where like they were at
some kind of institution and she's like, well, I'm a
cat and the guy's like, well, I'm a wolf, and
oh yeah, I don't remember what it was called.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
Was it just called Is it just called there's so
many like wolf, wolves, wolf movies.

Speaker 5 (52:55):
Yeah, there were.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Full scenes where these two were crawling around each other
being like ah, yeah, like a dog in a cat
and I was like, okay, so she can be weird.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Oh my god, you're so right. That was literally just
called wolf.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
And then it was funny because I was before this
when we talked about the casting bill and I on
I was like, have you ever seen any movie with
her in it? And he was like, no, nothing, I haven't.
I have nothing to judge it off of. And then
we found out that wasn't true because she was very
prominent in Silent Night, And then it was funny that
you didn't even remember her at all.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
No, No, I didn't. Yeah, I blocked that movie out
of my head. Yeah it's not my favorite. So yeah,
so I do think that this is a real you
know people, let's talk about an actor's breakout moment, breakout role.
I think this is hers, you know, I think that yeah,
there's a before and faratu for her, and there's an
after and hopefully she's able to capitalize on that and
not have to go back to doing something like the Idol.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I think this the same goes for Bill scars Guard,
because I've seen pretty much all the stuff he's done.
I liked him as it you're not going to beat
Tim Carrey, You're not scary. He's not scary to me.
I was like, I'm gonna fuck that clown, maybe, you
know what I mean. I'm like, I'm not worried about him,
but like, he was so scary in this. He worked
with an opera coach to lower his voice a couple

(54:11):
octaves to get that thing going on. And I was
just really impressed with everything he was doing, and I
was glad that it made me like it brought me
back to him, because you remember Hemlock Grove. Did anybody
ever watch that?

Speaker 5 (54:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Oh yeah? And that was the first thing I saw
him in and I was like, you're not exactly a vampire,
I don't think, but I'm into you in you. But
I'm also in love with his brother, so I can't cheat.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
When I think about Bill Scarsguard, I think of one
he clearly loves playing creatures, which I will always be
a fan of an actor who does that. But he's
in Assassination Nation also a eleven projects where he plays
like the World's worst boyfriend, just an atrocious idea, and
I was like, God, I think I hate this guy

(54:55):
because he was so good at it. So then I
loved watching him in this where it's like, Okay, you're
so dedicated to this, Like the attention that you put
into this is so commendable, but also like you are
a terrible boyfriend, but you're one that like I get
why somebody would be into you even though you're disgusting,
and I, yeah, I just like I love stories like this.

(55:15):
I talk about this with my wife a lot, so
like for listeners who don't know, my wife is trans
and so something we talk about a lot. Is like
the weird existence point of like me looking at her
and being like, you are the most beautiful person I've
ever seen in my life.

Speaker 5 (55:29):
I love you. You are so hot.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
I like love fucking you and knowing that when we
walk down the street there are people who were like,
that is the grossest person I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
You're disgusting. If you're into this, you're disgusting.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
And so then a movie like nos Faratu, it's like, oh, yeah,
I know what that feeling is, Like, I know that
feeling intimately, and to see that like presented as so
matter of fact, it was just like, oh, thank you,
Robert feeling valid today.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, No, there's there's a disconnect there and then
and the dissonance and uh dysphoria.

Speaker 5 (56:01):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
And I genuinely like, I'm not here to like yuck
anyone's young, or to tell people like, you know, oh,
you didn't get a movie, because I think that that
is like such a trivial sort of thing. But I
have found that the majority of people who either don't
understand like the yearning of this movie or are like
not connecting with it are all people I know who
have like insanely hot, conventionally attractive partners that the entire

(56:23):
world has determined is a beautiful person. And it's like, oh, yeah,
you don't know what it's like to like that's brave
somebody and like love somebody that other people think is gross,
Like you don't know what that feels like, or you
yourself are not somebody who like the world views as gross,
and so that's just been really interesting where I've just like,
I'm not commenting, I'm not like making world judgments on anybody.

(56:45):
I've just been sort of like looking at patterns on
my feed of the people that are like I just
didn't get it, and I'm like, huh, that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Okay, Oh yeah, No. It's even happened to me in
a much much smaller way. But you know, I remember
having a crush on a classmate of mine in college
and talking about it with, of all people, my father, uh,
just because he happened to be visiting and seeing a
show that I was in or something, and you know,
he was doing the classic dad thing of like, oh,
so who do you like right now?

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Bill?

Speaker 2 (57:14):
And I'm like, oh, well, I kind of like, you know,
whatever her name was, and I don't want to say
it on air, and then.

Speaker 5 (57:19):
Uh do it, We'll bleep it, no kidding.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
And then and then him being like really her, like,
you know, of all the people you could like at
that show, her, and I'm like, uh, oh, thanks dad,
you know. So yeah, even just a little comment like
that really sort of helps key you into Okay, there's
a distance between what you know it's you know the
heart ones with the heart ones sort of thing, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
There is like a fascination with it though, because like
I not that this is incomparable with what I think,
Like I love Jack White, and Ken is like I
don't understand it. I'm like, no, he's so hot and
he's like no he's not. I'm like, well, you just
don't kind of get this. And that's what I kind
of like with this is even with orloc being whatever,
this felt. I know people are like this one was scary,
and this I didn't think it was scary. It felt

(58:01):
like a fairy tale. To me. It felt more of
like a fantastical, dark fairy tale than like hair like
scary horror kind of vampire movie. And I think that
also like this, this the magic of it all is
pretty interesting too, like the pulling you in and then
drawing you in and you're like, I would never want
to be with that guy. Well what if you're in
the room with them and you're like, uh oh, it's fascinating.

(58:21):
He's tall, he's dark, he's strong, he owanns a castle
you know.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Yeah, No, I mean that's and that's what's so compelling
to me about the scenes with him and Thomas of
like his charisma as Orlock because obviously object you know,
and objectively. We just had this whole discussion Bill.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
You know, he's got a very let's say, uh, you know,
unconventionally uh you know, uh, interesting face and visage and
obviously his body when we see it, and yet there
is something about that's the way he owns a room,
you know, where it's like there's something you're drawn to
there and exactly what you just said, ashwhere it's like
if I was in the room, like you know, a

(58:59):
lot of pund of horror films especially love to say
that thing of well why don't you go up the
stairs instead of you know, all that scream stuff and
all that. Yeah, I know I would be a goner
because it's just there would be something about that guy's
magnetism that I would be too caught up and until
it was too late.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
You know.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
That's sort of that sort of Uh, just before we
leave it, I just had to stump for my boy Bill.
Us bills have to stick together, as we know, and uh,
I gotta say Bill Scard's guards one of my one
of my guys. I gotta at this point. I think
I'm gonna claim him because I know that everybody in
the world hated the Crow remake except me. I think
he was fantastic in it. I don't think the movie

(59:37):
is necessarily fantastic, but I think he does a great job.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
I was like, he's about to pug out if he
opens his eyes any wide wire, it is going to
fall out like a little post.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Especially in comparison because again this I mean, you know,
you know, acting actings spectrum, especially in comparison to what
he did with a very similar role in Boykill's World
this same year, where that was a lot more. You know,
he's his character in that movie is much more you know, innocent,
He's much more you know, uh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Idealistic until the end.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
So just even the range there between you know, this brooding,
you know, goth heavy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
You know, I've lost my love of my life.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
I'm so sad and I'm gonna kill everyone because of it,
versus you know, I'm gonna fight against the system.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Yeah, you know her the day before get out of there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I know we're not gonna talk about the but and
then of course Orlac coming at the end of this year.
I think he's had a hell of a year. You know,
even what people might say about those other two movies,
I think those three.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
One in this film has kind of yeah, and those
three we have Craven the Hunter, and then you get
to be in an Egger's movie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
It's like everyone's like, oh, your poor guy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
But I really I think that you know, those three
put together alone really show scars, guards range, uh and
his commitment. I think, really if he picks more of
the right projects that you know, are more universally loved
than those other two, where I think he could be
contenter along with Rob Pattinson, you know, in terms of
the pretty boy who.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Has also never like, I hadn't sitten in anything until
I saw the Lighthouse and I was like, oh, look
you Kenna. Then again, if you watch Twilight again and
you're just like the fact that you're doing all this
through Twilight, you are the best actor I've ever seen,
because you really look like you're in pain, and I
don't know how you did it for six movies or however,
well especially.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
I know I made Bill do this, but like the
commentary track on the first Twilight movie with him is
just incredible because it's him just shitting on the movie
and being a part of it the whole time, and
you realize like, oh no, you're actually a genius. But like, so,
something I keep thinking about is with Robert Eggers bringing
I think the best performance is out of both Robert
Pattinson and now Aaron Taylor Johnson, which I will say

(01:01:40):
I loved Aaron Taylor Johnson when he was in his
like teen era. I love angus thongs and perfect snogging
and kick ass. I was like, that's a great spot
for him. And then he did a bunch of weird
stuff and I'm like, I don't know what you're doing here, guy,
But I think Robert Eggers understands like what to do
with the two of them, and they are both giving
me performances that do remind me of early Willem Dafoe

(01:02:01):
performances where it's just like, there's something so weird about
you and there's something a little bit overacting, but it
works so well for like what the movie calls for.
I know you're able to take risks. I know you're
able to do these things because we're we've gotten to
this point as just a general Hollywood landscape where we
have stopped hiring people that are kind of weird looking,

(01:02:25):
like we don't have a lot of these actors anymore.
So people are gonna be really sad in like twenty
thirty years when all of like the young talents age
and they all just still kind of look the same,
Like we don't have interesting people to like replace the
interesting people that are leaving. And I think about this movie,
and I think about Robert Eggers and it's like, okay, well,

(01:02:46):
when Willem Dafoe unfortunately one day does pass, Like who's
gonna pick up that mantle? And I think we're gonna
find it in folks like Robert Pattinson, Bill Scarsguard, And
I think if he's smart Aaron Taylor Johnson, if he
plays weirdo and stops trying to be bond and stops
trying to be a pretty boy and just embraces the
fact that no, dude, you're a really good character actor,

(01:03:08):
like that is that's what we're going to be following.

Speaker 5 (01:03:11):
I just I like that. I like unlock that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
For me, I want to go see a movie with
him and not be excited just to see his abs,
you know what I mean. Like that's what it feels
like with like I was like, this movie starring Aaron
Tyler Jones's abs and I was like, Okay, well, you're
just kind of doing the same shit. But that's why
I was excited about his casting. And plus, let me
tell you, no wigs for those boys. Those boys had
beautiful curler set finger waves in and I loved every

(01:03:36):
second of it because I get real in on the wigs.
Everybody's wagon. This was fast. Well they didn't have wigs.
Hers was beautiful, but the real hair is the way
to go, especially with that look, with the pants and
the checker. I love the costuming and the settings, and
because it's a Robert movie, you know that everything is
time period. Correct. Oh that's what I wanted to bring up,
how much this had to do with like the scariness
of nineteenth century medicine and like how they would treat

(01:03:59):
with women. I brought it up a little bit as
a joke, but it was true that in the beginning
they're like, oh, well, she's on her period, the moon
is out, get her a couch to faint on and
she'll be fine. She's just a little hysterical. Actually, just
tie her to that bed. Her courses will pass. And
I was like, what are you doing? And that's why
when Van Helsing came in and he was like, untie her,
this is not what should be going on. This is

(01:04:20):
not what's wrong with her. There was no blood letting,
which I felt like we were getting pretty close to.
But the fact that even he was like, oh, this
is like a demonic spirit thing and wasn't understanding how
could you that it was a vampire. The things that
he was doing to try to help her weren't exactly
the right things either.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Yeah, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
And even just the scenes with Ralphson's character, his doctor
character and knock and you know, there's that great laugh
line where Kannak has just bitten the head off a
pigeon and.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
I was like, whatever did you do that for?

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
You know, this this sort of it's funny because I be,
you know, a chronically ill person and uh, you know,
having a lot of uh uh you know, immuno compromise.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Issues and whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
You know, we'll look at modern medicine today and be like,
you know, gosh, we're really not protected. You know, we
we're not thinking about this, this and this. You go
back to a period film and think about the history
of medicine and you know, look at something like this
with you know, dealing with a plague where it's just like, Wow,
these guys weren't prepared at all for this. Yeah, you know,
what what should we do about this awful thing that's

(01:05:29):
just invaded our town.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
It's like, well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Rats everywhere? No, I thought that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:35):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Like the guy who played the boss, the Brentfield Boss.
I don't know who that actor was, but he was great.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
Uh yeah, no, it's oh, I had his name right here.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Some science Stan okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Who we've definitely seen in other things like uh, Conjuring two.
He doesn't not a huge role in that mission policy
to I think he's one of the interviewers who comes
to the house in Enfield. Okay, Yeah, he's one of
that crew that is maybe trying to debunk it. The
Pale Blue Eye, which is a movie I liked a lot,

(01:06:09):
but I know a lot of people didn't see about
the egg Roll and Poe, you know, Murder Mystery, Great hahu,
a couple of the things that goes back. He's his
career starches back to the early nineties.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Good for him, No, I really, he's like he was
a standout to me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
I really enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
He's a little pigeon eating which he's seen. I like
all the witchcraft in it. I thought it was pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
Yeah, and like what a great year that Ralph Inison
had with just like two movies back to back where
he's just hanging out with a girl who's got a
lot of problems going on that no one seems to
know what to do with.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
And it's so crazy to me he's going to be galactas,
Like yeah, yeah, he's got the voice for it. That
was another thing I thought was interesting, Like we see Orlock,
but I honestly feel like we didn't get to really
see him until like two hours besides the dick out scene,
Like we didn't really get to see him until he
came to like visit her. And I love the shut
of work, but I thought, I love that that's very
Jaws like Hydro Monster Show us just a little bit.

(01:07:05):
Maybe not that much too, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Uh yeah no, And I don't know the name. I
don't have the name of the makeup artists on this,
but you know, props to Oscars.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
I swear to God, if the Oscars ignored this movie,
I'm gonna be really mad.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
I hope they do. There's a lot of competition. We've
talked about this already, asked a lot this year, but
you know, horror this year has been.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
I need to see substance and this movie and Long
Legs possibly for something something in there. What was that
Bill Skarsgard movie with Long Legs chick that was okay?

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
The horror Yeah, I was gonna says, is not one
of my favorites too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Yeah, it's very upset by the ending. Yeah, in a
good way, I guess, because I was supposed to be.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
I think that No Sarat and maybe maybe the Substance
I like will end up being the two horror things
that will get probably like a technical nomination. I don't
trust the Academy in the slightest to actually vote for it,
but part of me is thinking that maybe they'll go
for nos fat To solely because like they love a

(01:08:01):
lot of the actors that.

Speaker 5 (01:08:02):
Are in it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
It is a period piece and they love a period piece.
But ultimately I feel like they they might ship the
bet on it as they are.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Well, that's what I really am interested to see what
makeup will be because with the substance, even Long Legs,
this one and I guess they're going to be up
against Dune. Probably. There is a lot of really strong
makeups this year. I'll be really interested to see what
they're going to do.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Yeah, I gotta say, I feel like there's a pretty
good good will campaign building around.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
To me, I think she could get a nomination. I
don't know better, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:08:37):
I think she'll get shortlisted.

Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
I don't think people are going to be willing to
vote it in, which is such a bummer because they
weren't willing to let Tony Collett have it the year
that it felt like, oh, this will be the year
they actually nominate someone in horror and what a disgrace.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Yeah, we'll have to all do Hereditary together, if you
would be interested, because I would love to talk about.

Speaker 5 (01:08:57):
That, so interested.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
I nominate Tony Collett, you coward's hat, just for the occasion.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
You have a hat. Yeah, I don't know about that hat.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
It's a super yucky hat. And this is nominate Tony Collett,
you coward of course.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's awesome. Anything else that we
want to.

Speaker 5 (01:09:16):
Out I think, yeah, call the real rats. I'll say
that all the real rats.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah, they did a great job. Laking it up. I
did see this picture the other day of Willem Dafoe
and Johnny Depp on the set of Platoon, and then
one of him and Lily Rose Depp like kind of
in the same stance, and I was like, that must
be really fun, just like someone you idolize, someone who
your dad knows, someone who's worked with your dad, but
then also working with someone you've worked with child and

(01:09:44):
the things that she's getting to learn from being around
all these better actors. I mean, because like, let's be serious,
who's the singer that was in the idol the Weekend?
And so I don't hate the Weekend. I came out
of that show and I was like, I hate this
guy and I'm never listening to his music again. I
got over that, yeah, because I was like, the just
a role, Just let it go. I hold roles against
people sometimes I don't mean to. I never forget forgave

(01:10:06):
source what's her name for atonement a little bitch. No,
I think you're getting over it now. You make a
really good point, though.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
I did an interview earlier this year with U with
Zelda Williams, and she was talking about how like the
one thing that people forget when we have like the
Nepo baby conversations, is that somebody like a Lily Rose
Depp or someone like azel To Williams like their entire
childhood is being on sets most of the time, being
behind the scenes and seeing how a set actually functions,

(01:10:35):
and that sort of free education is invaluable.

Speaker 5 (01:10:39):
And it's like, yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
Like and when I watch somebody like Lily Rose Depp,
it's like you have an innate understanding of like where
the camera is, how things are moving, what.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
You gotta do.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
Like you, she gets it, she gets it. I'm not
anti Nepo baby. As long as they own it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
It's kind of impossible to be against them. Everybody is
a goddamn Nepa baby. Your favorite favorite favorites are like
are when you really look into it, and I don't.
I'm just like, oh whatever, It's just like maybe the
Jaden Smiths, I'm like, you can go sit the fuck down.
But there are very talented families. What can you do?

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Yeah, And if they're afforded the the you know, wealth
and ability and time and encouragement to hone their craft,
then you know they can become just as great.

Speaker 4 (01:11:26):
Everyone just needs to intent. Everyone just needs to attend
the seminar and or masterclass that I'm inventing in my head,
hosted by Alison Williams, who is probably the best at
having the conversation of like, yeah, it's here's how you
navigate this. Stop acting like everyone's against you for being
a up a baby. They're just against you for pretending like.

Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
You haven't had it easier, Like that's the only thing,
just to admit it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
Yeah, it's so easy to just be that way. Like
Maya Hawk's really good at it.

Speaker 5 (01:11:50):
Too, She's real good at it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Oh yeah, well, now I saw that there's another Hawk
out there trying to do stuff too. He was just
in a horror movie. I saw, oh Blink twice, which
is another nipple baby directed see you Can't get away
from Them, Zoe, So I kind of directed that with
Tater's precious that's what I call chanitating, that's my pet
name for him. But I didn't know that that was
a hawk the did you? Did you both see that?

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Oh? Yeah, I still have not how you're missing out
the boy you know who I'm talking about, And he
was great.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
He was funny.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Before I give up the ghost and that's far out
to you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
I just wanted to say, because I didn't really I
sort of alluded to it earlier, but just because we
recently had our Nightmare Elms Street episode ash and we
gushed so much about how we both loved that film,
I do see it. I don't know how intentional it was,
but I do see a lot of parallels between that
franchise in this movie. And it's just ironic that, you know,
they this movie comes out of the fortieth anniversary of Nightmare,
just because of obviously there's the meta aspect that I

(01:12:45):
already mentioned about the New Nightmare stuff of like, you know,
having this sort of second sight of you know, the
rest of the script or you know, the story or
the thing that you're caught in the fairy tale, but
also the way that Eggers depicts the dream logic in
this movie feel very much in conversation with Wes Craven's work.
And let's go, let's be honest, you know, a Depp
and a depth we had this.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Oh shit, Emma Corn, so sorry girl. You did a
great job too. Also having quite the year, Emma, you
were great. Your wig was terrible, but your performance was great.
I knew there was a bad wig in there.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
I don't see wigs. As I've said before, well, I just.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Kind of feel like the shots started to feel like
a diorama or like something. It was like a they
were so boxed out. It felt very claustrophobic, especially like
when she opens the doors and you have the frame
of the door way in the shot and the two
doors that the shots were so interesting because they were open,
but it also felt like tight spaces to give you

(01:13:44):
this like uncomfortable feeling. And I was just like, you're
a goddamn genius.

Speaker 5 (01:13:47):
Is very theatrical in that in that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Regard, Yeah, theatrical, I mean Gazeger's comes from that tradition
in that world, So yeah, I love that he's continuing
to develop that for the cinema and to keep those
traditions alive.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
What do we got for recommendations?

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
All right? Are we all going to pick a Dracula?

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
I'm I'm picking Nasfaratu The Vampire with a Y from
nineteen seventy nine by Werner hurtz Hoog, starring the crazy
duo of Klaus Kinski and Isabella A. Johnny And I'm
just gonna say, and the Possession because if you really
want to see the peak of the female freakout and
power and control in and acting. You know in a movie.

(01:14:29):
She dominates those movies. There's nobody like her. I don't
think it's good, Like nothing against the Lille Rose or
anybody else who is because what's her face? Tried to
do it too. In the New Omen she had that
whole light yeah, and I'll tell you're fair because Lily
Rose is just so she's cute and frown whatever, and
she was doing her things and made me laugh. When
Isabella has her freak out in the Possession in the
in the Subway Tunnel, there is no smile. There's nothing

(01:14:51):
funny about that. It is intense and like it's physical
because I understand I almost understand like what she's going
through in that, and it's kind of like, I wish
this had a little bit more sexuality. Like at the
end of Possession, then why was she's fucking that demon
And you're like, I don't this is gross, this is weird.
I shouldn't be watching this. Why am I turned on
a little bit? You know what I mean? She also

(01:15:13):
just has this grangeness behind her eyes that like she
could pop off and attack you at any moment, and
she she feel like she was a little bit of
a stronger Lily Rose did great, But there's just I
love Isabella. I'm going to digress now, but everybody go
watch that not Nosferatu goes to FeNiS skip that one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Klaus Kinski Is said, I am gonna go with the
nineteen seventy nine John Batham directed Dracula, starring Franklin Jella,
because I feel like if you're kind of vibing with
Eggers's Nosparatus, sort of remixing of the Dracula mythos, I
feel like the seventy nine Dracula has a little bit

(01:15:54):
of that flavor. It's partially unintentional because it is adapting
the Hamilton Dean and General Balderston nineteen twenty four play
that was then revamped for Broadway in the seventies, which
is where frank la Jelli first played the role and
why he was cast in the seventy nine film as
as Dracula, And so characters' names get mixed up, like

(01:16:15):
you know, Mina isn't Mina anymore, Mina is.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
Loose lucy, yeah, and like that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
So inadvertently almost it feels like that Dracula, as classical
as it is, is trying new things and remixing little
elements here and there that gives it a distinct flavor
that I think is interesting. But I will say you
can watch it either with the original color timing, which
is very lush, fairy, opulent, or John Badam's preferred color timing,

(01:16:42):
which is much more desaturated, which is interesting to compare
to Eggers's No Sparatu. So yeah, if you're kind of
vibing with this not Sparatu, check out that Dracula bj.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
Anyone who knows my work knows that this is not
a surprise. But I am recommending the nineteen thirty six
film from Lambert Hillier, Dracula's Her and yeah, Raison, I'm
recommending Dracula's Daughter. Not only is it because Countess Maria's
Aleska is tattooed on my arm and she will haunt
me if I do not talk about her in an
Auswrap episode, but also, uh, this is a movie that

(01:17:14):
is loosely inspired by Carmilla shared in Lafenow's novel, which
is what inspired Bramstroker's Dracula, which is what inspired nos
Ferratu and it is also very much about somebody who
has a yearned that they wish that they did not
and are trying to psychoanalyze.

Speaker 5 (01:17:30):
Their way out of it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Also a lot of very weirdly funny moments for you know,
god knows what reason talking about how cops are like
complete idiots, which is great and wonderful, but also a
movie about yearning and I love it very very much.

Speaker 5 (01:17:43):
So Dracula's Daughter, you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Lily Rose reminded me she was doing. She was doing
so much Karen Knightley from that David Cronenberg movie. Did
you ever see that dangerous?

Speaker 4 (01:17:53):
That was?

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
I was like, I just that's the movie. I kept
reminding when she was doing her thing. I was like, oh,
she saw that she had some homework before.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
This, Oh for sure, which is fine.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
But yeah, well, before we close out, we do have
some feedback, feedback, feedback.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
We have a very star review, five star review, so.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
We're going to start reading. So if you send in
a five star review, you might get featured on the podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
So this one comes to us from Haley in La.
That's what she wrote on the review, so we will
not be revealing her real name. Which we all happen
to know, but I would refer to as Haley in LA.
She says her review is entitled marked Safe. Shockingly, I
actually love Bill's podcast and willingly listen to it, so
he is marked safe from the male pod apocalypse. I'm

(01:18:46):
sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact
that it stars Bill, who is mild mannered, goofy and
uses a rich nerdy vocabulary, and his mouthy, opinionated, excitable
female co host from Philly.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
That's us.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
I think I need that on a T shirt.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Yes, thank you, Hailey from LA you got me. Uh
maybe maybe someday you and Asheville beat and Queen out
comes to LA.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
No, I loved it so much and now we quote
it around here a lot. He's like, WHOA, you're being
mouthy or you're excitable. I can't my husband, he's used
it against me in a great way.

Speaker 5 (01:19:22):
I love a Mauthi Broad, Like my favorite women in
the world are Maui Broad's.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
I love it. Oh, I just like that it goes
like people understand.

Speaker 3 (01:19:28):
You know, BJ. Thank you so much for joining us this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
Great Thank you for having me anytime.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Please tell us, Please tell our listeners where they can
find you on socials and anything else you got going on.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
You want to plug Yeah, sure.

Speaker 4 (01:19:41):
So I am on all forms of social media at
BJ Colangelo. My podcast is on all forms of social
media at this ends at prom We have some really
cool stuff cooking on the pod for the new year.
I will say that we're kicking off the year with
a rewatch of Times Square, a movie that is so
unbelievably good that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
And it's so good I've never seen it, I don't
think fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:20:03):
Directed by Alan Moyle, same director behind Empire Records and
pub up the volume.

Speaker 1 (01:20:08):
Oh well, that's fun.

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
It is just like one of the great like Child
performances with Robin Johnson.

Speaker 5 (01:20:14):
Unbelievable. So we're doing that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
I was recently announced that my wife and I have
a video essay on the arrow release of Dress to Kill,
So if you are somebody in the UK, or if
you have a region free player, you should buy that
and hear us talk about one of Di Palma's greatest works.

Speaker 5 (01:20:32):
But that's that's what I got cooking.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
I will have all of the links to Beatday stuff
and all in the show notes, so it would be
easy to find from there.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Thank you all.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
For joining us for this episode of Bill and Ashley's
part of the Stranded Panda Network. You can find my
work in the show notes thanks below. Check us out
on social media. You can find the show at Strandedpanda
dot com and.

Speaker 3 (01:20:58):
Everywhere else you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
If you have questions or comments, please feel free to
write to us at Bill and Ashtira Theater at gmail
dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
We're dying to hear see you in your nights

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