Presence

On this episode we are reviewing Steven Soderbergh’s Presence, a fresh take on a classic haunted house story. Prior to that, Bill shares his experiences at Sundance Film Festival, with guest host J Scotty St Clair!
See you in your nightmares…..
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome to another horrifying special review episode of Bill and
Ashley's Terror Theater on the Marquee. This week is twenty
twenty four's presence. Join us right after we get back
from remembering what it's like to be an angsty teenager,
all that after these ads we have no control over.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm Ashley Coffin, joined as always by my co host
and Terror Bill Bria Bill Darling.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
How are we today?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (00:53):
I've been better, Ash, but I just want you to
know that your control, it's all you.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
It's all up.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Had to be the creep.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Sorry, that's the one I remember the most.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Oh I hear a familiar laugh. Jay Sadiginclaire's with us
in the house. Welcome back to the Haunted House.

Speaker 5 (01:12):
Thank you, thank you. I'm grateful to be invited back
and afforded another opportunity to gift you all with my presence.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh oh alad ghost.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Joe Presence says in Christmas presents, So give it up.

Speaker 5 (01:24):
Yeah ho ho, Such.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
A difference a tea can make.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
But before we jump into our little haunted house, story time. Bill,
you just got back from sun Dance. Tell us all
about it.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, it was another great time up in Park City, Utah.
Maybe the last year, maybe not, because there's rumors that
the fest will be moving to Colorado in two years.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
We're not sure, But then again, things have gone, things
have happened.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
If you've been paying attention to the news at all
in twenty twenty five, you know that there's been a
lot of incident going on in all corners of the world.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
And that is not just the case for big things.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
It's also the case for little things like Sundance, because
not only has there been rumors that it's gonna move
to Colorado, but then there might be a complete revamping
of the virtual aspect because of Dylan O'Brien stands and
leaking scenes from Twin Lists, which is a great film,
not a horror film, so I can't talk about it,
but it is a great film. And so because of
these leaks, and because of these other leaks that had

(02:21):
a Selena or another documentary got leaked that was on
the virtual arm of the Sundance Film Festival, they may be.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Revamping that whole thing.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
And if they do, maybe they're gonna want to bring
back to Park City a lot more business because it
might become fully in person again.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Who knows.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
It's a mess right now, like everything is, but we
will just have to wait and see. But as for
right now, I was back in Park City for a
week and saw some cool stuff there. There was a
couple like fully fledged horror movies. There wasn't as big
as showing for horror this year as there was last year,

(02:59):
so that's why we're not doing a whole episode on
it this time around. But there were some things to
talk about. One is a couple of horror adjacent movies.
There's one from a twenty four. It's called If I
Had Legs, I'd Kick You, written directed by Mary Bronstein.
It is I described it in my review and all

(03:20):
so many of these have reviews by me on slash
film dot com if you want to read them as
full reviews without spoilers, of course, But this one I
described as uncut Gems for parents or eraser Head for moms.
It is about Rose Byrne dealing with her child and
her crumbling marriage with an absentee husband, and you never

(03:45):
see the child for most of the film.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
It's just her voice.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
But the child has this illness that rose Byrne's character
has to like, you know, constantly care for.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Right.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
But there's also yeah, part six, I think, yeah, well even.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
The first one, he's never there the kids, she's by herself.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
So it's part of the insidious universe.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now on the couch.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
But yeah, this is this is one of.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
The most cool cool is wrong term I think one
of the most rich Rosebern performances you've ever seen from her.
If you already like her as an actresses, I love her,
You're gonna really enjoy what she does with this role
because she is in every scene, every frame of the movie.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
There's some really interesting side characters with some interesting casting.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
There's a character played by Asap Rocky the Rapper h
which is interesting just to have him as a presence
in the movie, but also Conan O'Brien Aspern's therapist. Oh fun,
and he plays it like completely dead pant's.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Is that why he was there?

Speaker 4 (04:46):
Yeah, that's why he was there as an actor and
h Yeah, it's it's an incredibly tense movie. It has
its Lynchian moments, it has its Safty Brothers moments, it
has you know, elements of horror in it in terms
of just how tense and you know, I think, yeah,
there's a racer head. But there's also the Bobbadok, which
is another comparative in terms of like, right, oh god,
this kid. I can't stand those kids.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
The way that kid screams in that car, I would
have just got out and left away and never come back.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
I'm like, so this kid and if I had legs,
I think it's Bobbadok a run for its money.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Oh wow in terms of that.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
And you don't even see the child.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
You don't even see it. It's just it's just the
constant presence of the voice.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
And you know the problem.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
How old is that giving anything away?

Speaker 3 (05:27):
No?

Speaker 2 (05:27):
No, I think how old the kid's.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Supposed to be. Somewhere around the same age.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
It's probably like eleven six, eleven maybe or ten or seven, Yeah,
somewhere around there, like okay, maybe late single digits. But yeah,
it is. It is a trip. So definitely keep an
eye out for that one. I think it's it's definitely
already distributed by eight twenty four. I don't know what
it's release date is.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
Hopefully they'll pull a sing Sing with this one.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
Yeah, hopefully don't sit on it for too long. There's
another movie that I saw which most people did not
vibe with, but I kind of did, and as you might,
you might be in the middle, given what I know
about your taste. But it's called Rabbit Trap and it's
directed written by a Welsh filmmaker called Brin Cheney.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
This is his first feature.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
It's set in nineteen seventy six, and it is very
much a you know, UK like English, very like vintage
BBC style folk horror meets cosmic horror movie about this
couple who have moved to the deep Welsh countryside to

(06:38):
try and the woman of the couple is a musician
and she's like a pioneering electronic musician. She's trying to
get like all these different sounds for her new album.
And oh and def Btel is her husband, and he's
like recording all these sounds around the forest and exploring
the forest. He steps where he maybe shouldn't step and
then awakens this spirit which is this you know, ancient
fairy child thing which brings itself to their home and

(07:02):
wants to be part of their family. Oh no, and
I think people expected a much more horrific, you know,
menacing sort of movie, which the movie does set you
up for.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
But it subverts.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
That and changes direction, and it's much more of like
a dark fairy tale kind of vibe. But the texture
of it is something that I really responded to, and
so I think that if you can find yourself in
its wavelength, I think you can find it a rewarding
experience if you're in it for like a roller coaster ride,
like you're not gonna have a good time sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
So, yeah, it's not a bloomhouse feature.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
Was it? Rabbit Trap or rabbit hole?

Speaker 3 (07:37):
Rabbit Trap?

Speaker 5 (07:38):
Rabbit Trap?

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Rabbit Trap?

Speaker 5 (07:40):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (07:40):
And that one, as of now, I don't think has
a distribution, so hopefully somebody might pick that up. I
kind of feel like it could be a maybe an
IFC midnight release. Shutter Shutter definitely could pick it up
to Uh, So that could be happening.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Interesting that Dev Depel's in it.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, and he's great.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
Another UK produced or shot as well and set horror
adjacent movie is The Thing with Feathers, which is written
and directed by Dylan Southern who this isn't his first feature,
but it's his first narrative feature because he's made a
couple documentaries before him. This one is based on a

(08:25):
book by Max Porter called Grief is the Thing with feathers,
so you can sort of see where the metaphor is going.
But it stars Ben Into Cumberbatch as a father who
loses his wife suddenly and he's got two sons to
take care of. Still, the two sons and him were
sort of not a strange, but like you know, they
were closer to the mother than they were to him.
So it's that sort of thing of like, you know,

(08:46):
now I got to try to find my own way
with these sons. And it's and he's also like a
comic book artist, and so he's trying to deal with
his you know, mailstream of emotions and trying to deal
with his grief through his art, and it's a lot
weighing on him. So what happens is that either you know,
of course, it's up to your interpretation, so either his

(09:08):
mind breaks and he believes that a crow creature gets
into his house and starts messing around with him, or
it really does happen because something magical or supernatural is happening.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
But it's what's with Benader Kamberbatch.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I mean, didn't he just do that movie with that
TV show on Netflix where it's like Oh, my son's missing,
and I'm having this mental break and now there's this
monster in my room and he's talking to me all
the time.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
What was that called? I didn't see it.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Almost like monster, because he was an artist and that
was his creation.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
What was called?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
But he was so good.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
In that puppet movie Eric, I know, it was just
a name. Yeah, It's just called Eric's Eric.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
So yeah, So clearly there's some overlap in terms of this,
which is maybe why people sort of thought it, you know,
repetitious or something. But I was really taken with the
style of the movie. It is alternatively, like I can't
name another movie in recent years that I've seen that's
given me as much genuine emotions in a different way

(10:16):
as possible, where it's like one minute, I was genuinely scared,
like this has the best jump scares of any movie
science and another moment, I was laughing my head off
because it was really ironic. You know, there's this there's
such an irony to like the crow creature who's voiced
by David Thulis, which is a great and and he's

(10:36):
you know, the crow is just like relentlessly clowning on
this guy, where he was like.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Oh you're crying. Oh you're so sad about your dead wife.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
Oh you know what, and like you know, coming back
just like you know, that's really and it's intentionally really funny.
And then the next moment it's genuinely like super moving.
And so I I think that again, if you're if
you can get on this film's wave length, it can
be again really rewarding. It's not a pure horror film,
but like the creature work is so good and it's

(11:04):
so great to see it practically done. It the way
that it's designed, the way that it shot, you know,
you never see it full on the whole time. It
has like such a great PRIs inside the movie. So
even if just for that, I think it's worth seeing.
And and yeah, I don't know if that one has
distribution yet either, but hopefully it will at some point.

(11:26):
Then the last adjacent horror movie I would say that
I saw is something called Oh Hi, which is definitely
more of a comedy. So it's it's you know, if
you if in the horror comedy like section, this would
be more comedy than horror. It's written directed by Sophie Brooks,
and it stars Molly Gordon as one half of a

(11:47):
couple that goes on a weekend road trip to the country.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like a house in the country.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
They have a nice night and then Molly Gordon's character,
I think her name is Iris, asks you know, the
boyfriend like, hey, what are we and you know, the
boyfriend's kind of like flaky and it's sort of hinting
that like maybe this is just like a quick, you know,
casual hookup, and essentially it turns into rom com misery

(12:13):
where she has him cuffed to the bed for days,
and so it is like demented in terms of like
it it goes towards like, you know, a little bit
of a genre thing, a little bit of a horror
like space, but it never fully goes into like you know, spoilers,
but nobody dies, no knees are broken, you know, sort
of like but but it is really fun.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
It is really funny movie.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
It is really charming in that way, and I think
for horror fans it'll be fun for them to see,
you know, these sort of tropes played in a more
comedy fashion than it is you know, horror fashion. Uh So,
I just wanted to mention that just because it's definitely
not a horror movie, but like, you know, it's enough,
it's close enough to be like, hey, like you know,
you might like it if you wanted to check it out.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
All right, So now the more Oh sorry.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
I recall on your top five movies of twenty twenty
four you cided Your Monster, which I happened to have
seen as well. Would you compare this one favorably to
that where it's yeah, I think that.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Your Monster I would classify as a bit more as
a horror movie just because of okay.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
That the ending. Not to give a short, but you
know the ender Recontect from.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Now it's on HBO. I can watch it now, la
la la.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Yeah, no, I'm not going to give it away, but like, yeah,
there's a I do feel like, you know, films, in
the way that they end they have a very big
bearing over what kind of.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Movies they end up. Absolutely absolutely, I think that O
Hi is definitely more of a it was a comedy.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
But okay, okay, okay, So now the the much more
obviously these are horror movies that would I want to
mention there's one called Together, which is starring Dave James,
Dave Franco and Alison Brie and that one just got
picked up by Neon for distribution Nice on August of

(13:55):
this year. And it is written directed by Michael Shanks,
different Michael'sanks, not the.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Guy from Twin Peaks, And.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
It is a body horror movie about this mysterious sort
of annihilation sc well in the deep woods of the
upstate New York countryside where this couple moves to that
they get stuck in for like a minute, and if
you drink the water then something in your body chemistry

(14:25):
wants to merge with the next closest body and so
oh no. So it's it's a couple that are going
through a few relationship problems and not quite sure if
they want to remain together, who find themselves maybe inexorably
stuck together. There's a lot more going on. There's all

(14:46):
this you know sort of you know incident subplot and stuff.
But I think this is a movie to see in
a similar way to the substance of like, hey, if
you want to see like some crazy set pieces.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
That that goes you're not ready for societ, Yeah it's not.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
It's not quite so side it does not as hard.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Right before you watch Colors out of Space check this
one out.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
This is this is for sure.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
Like I think what's was great about watching this one
in its premiere screening was how well it played with
an audience, like an audience and it's fun so called normies.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Right.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
I think you could see, you know, so many people
reacting to exactly the same spots at exactly the same time,
in exactly the same way, which.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Was a pretty good indication of how it was working.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
And so yeah, this is a date night movie for sure,
like take your take your person and and you know,
be sort of scheeped out by oh no, what's gonna happen? Yeah.
Another one, which is I just wrote a view of it.
It's like my least favorable review of the sun Dance
Film Festival this year. It's called Opus. It is distributed

(15:51):
by eight twenty five. Oh well here's the thing, there's
a cop because and yeah, like overall the reviews are
not great and I think that Opus. Yeah, and it's
being distributed by E twenty four. It's set for release
in March of this year. They sort of presented it.
They sort of did this with Love Lives Bleeding last year,
where they already had distribution and release date in place,

(16:13):
and they were just like here, we're just come premiere
at Sundance because we want the buzz.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I think it.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Really worked for Love Lives Bleeding last year because that
movie was great, and this one I feel like it's
working less for because it's not as instantly satisfying. It's
written and directed by a first time filmmaker, Mark Anthony Green.
He used to be a journalist at GQ. And this
movie is all about, you know, the music industry and

(16:40):
this idea of celebrity worship, stand culture, that sort of
thing around a big musical figure. In execution, it is
way too similar to recent movies like The Menu, Glass
Hung in.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
What's the other one? Blink Twice?

Speaker 5 (16:58):
I'm just going to say I didn't see blink twice,
but yeah, I was gonna guess, Yeah, where's that idea.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Of Like every time someone says blink twice, it takes
me a second to remember what that movie is and
then I go, oh, it's like that.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
So yeah, So it's that same structure of like mysterious,
reclusive you know, celebrity or rich person draws a bunch
of people to their remote location. Oh no, what's going
to happen to them sort of thing, And it feels
like Green as a filmmaker doesn't want to provide the
sort of requisite like you know, uh, scares or suspense

(17:33):
or really just even kills of like a classic you
know version or horror version of that movie. It's more about, like,
I don't know, the subversion of those things, the sort
of going left when it should go right sort of stuff.
It's not ultimately, it's not an instantly satisfying experience, but

(17:55):
if you can make it to the end and see
what happens with its big narrative twist about like what
was going on and why, I found the ending to
be pretty damn rewarding in terms of, like, now if
I can imagine going back and watching it again and
having more respect for it in terms of, oh, that's
why that scene was there. It wasn't just for John

(18:17):
Malkovich to be self reflexively weird and you know, thrust
his hips around and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Oh no, it had a point, you know.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
And so I think that it's weirdly a movie that
would work better on a second watch than a first.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
But is that going to be enough for anybody?

Speaker 4 (18:30):
I don't know, you know, So it's like, yeah, I
think it's going to be, unfortunately a bust, but you know,
there might be some fans of it that might, you know,
grow an estimation.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
And this guy, if he goes on to make more.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Movies, maybe he'll get the whole mixture right the next time.
So the last one I wanted to mention is the
horror movie, the genre movie that I saw this year
that I absolutely, unequivocally loved.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
It is.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
One of the most alien and aiding movies I've seen
in a long time. And I mean that as a pun.
That's a pun intended in terms of alien aiding.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
It is called Touch Me, and it is a Rustic
Films production. If you don't know who Rustic Films are,
they are the production company that was founded by Justin
Benson and Aaron moorehead. Oh nice, Okay, made Spring and
The Endless and all those indie genre you know mash

(19:31):
up film Spring, So.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
You believe she chose that, pas, Sorry, I like the
movie a lot, but I would never give up blank
not going to give the movie away, but you guys.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
Uh yeah, So this one is directed written by Addison Hymen,
and it also stars Lou Taylor Pucci from Spring as this.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
The guy from Evil Dead.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Uh huh okay, let me tell he is ripped. He
is jacked in this movie. He is looking like you
could bounce a whatever quarter off of his abs or
something because he is playing.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
I think I'm just still mad at him because of Evil.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, no, you should be because he Yeah, what idiot?

Speaker 4 (20:17):
But he is playing an alien who is just this toxic,
parasitic being for another world.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Who oh that's actually perfect.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Then, who loves to have tentacle sex with his Uh
I don't know victims is the right word.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
But oh god. So it's like, what's that? What's that
one movie that's not Possession?

Speaker 5 (20:40):
I was gonna say, is it like the answer to
Under the Skin?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Like the under That's that's the one I'm thinking of.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah yeah, in terms of theme maybe, but in terms
of style, no, in style, like this thing is all
over the place, this.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Thing under the skin is hot.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
Now. So so this thing delivers on like every promise
that you can think of in terms of like, do
you want to see alien tentacal sex? You get see
it multiple ways? Do you do you want to see
some crazy creature body horror stuff you get to see it.
Do you want like extended one take monologues from the
other movies star Olivia Taylor Dudley, which is really rich

(21:14):
and harrowing and emotional and you know, grounded in reality.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Do you want to see a satire of you know,
sort of toxic relationships that's very like push to the
lines of of you know, taste.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Like this movie more than the substance. I know that
some people love to compare the substance to the work
of Frank Kennon Lootter. I think the substance is maybe
closer to something like Brian Usna or something like that.
This movie touched me, I feel is much closer to
Frank Kennon Lotter in the way that like hen and
Letter's movies like Brain Damage, like Bad Biology, like did

(21:52):
not give a fuck Damage. He didn't give a fuck
if he was, you know, pissing people off or grossing
them out or whatever. It wasn't trying to please people.
It was definitely like I'm going to go there and
if you're with me, great, and if you're not, see
you later.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
That's what this movie is, like, I that's fun.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
We began the screening of this movie and that I
was in with a full packed house. We ended it
with half the number of left.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
They love it left.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
Yeah, so let me tell you, this is a divisive movie.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
It is one that is not for everybody.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
But and literally even me, about a quarter away we through,
I was like, maybe this sucks or maybe it rocks.
I don't know, Like I honestly don't know yet, because
either this thing is kind of cool or it is
a mess.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
And like, what a fun ride?

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah that's fun. So yeah, see side note talking about Botterheart.
I just told Scotty to watch this the other day.
Did you see Grafton?

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Uh No, I didn't, but I heard some good things.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Like I'm not saying it's a world changing, earthquaking, you
know movie, but I enjoyed the hell out of my
hour in thirty five minutes with that movie. I was like,
this is fun, phenomenal, and I wasn't expecting it.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Oh it was a fun watch.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (23:03):
Nice, Sometimes that's all a movie needs to do.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
I should also say that there was a Shutter which
is distributed by Shutter release called The Ugly Stepsister, which
also screened at the festival. I didn't get to see
it because it was screening the exact same time as
touched me. I did email with them for a screener.
I was like, hey, I would love to see this too.
I'm sorry it's the same time as this, and they
were like, no, we want you to see it at
the festival or not at all. I'm like, oh, okay,

(23:26):
a right, guys.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Thanks well, So I was just going to ask earlier,
are people sharing the ones that are sent to them?

Speaker 2 (23:32):
So they're not like trusting people anymore.

Speaker 5 (23:34):
No.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
The problem is is that Sundance had, you know, or
at least has for right now, a virtual arm to
it where this was something they established during quarantine because
you know, they didn't they you know, we're smart, and
they didn't want people to actually come during the times
when there was no vaccine, you know, in twenty twenty one,
to go to a place that is routinely known for
you know, being able to get people sick. So they

(23:58):
established this virtual screening system, which for a couple of
years was the only way they were doing it. They
didn't have an in person for I think twenty twenty
one and maybe twenty twenty two, and then in twenty
twenty three, they started this dual thing where they had
the in person people back as normal, but they also
had a virtual component. I believe the way it works

(24:20):
is that each production, each film I think, does a
separate deal or a dual deal with them if they
want their movie to be in person only or both
in person and online. Okay, a lot of the bigger movies,
the ones that even if they don't have a distribution,
feel like they're going to get it, they typically don't

(24:42):
do virtual because they assume, you know, we don't want
to risk piracy.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
And that sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
Of course, so the virtual arm was already kind of
not neutered, but like lesser, right, and now if people
are abusing the you know, their privileges like this, then
it's going to be gone.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
So this was either you can have a press pass
to watch these virtual films or you did have the
option as just a person to pay per ticket to
have a virtual ticket to these.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
So okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
So they can keep more of a control on who, like,
it's only going to be this this these people who
did it.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
And the nice thing too is because there was there
was also because of this whole tobacco. People online have
been talking about why don't they watermark there, you know stuff,
and they actually do. It's just that they're doing a
kindness because the watermarks are I think there's one right
at the beginning, there's one somewhere in the middle, there's
one at the end. So if you try to pirate
the entire file, you'll see the watermarks, you know. But

(25:39):
if you are pirating just like like a two second
scene or something, you're not going to.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Because you know, the people who are priorting they don't
care about the watermarks.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
Right, But you know, it's it's actually it was a
very nice thing for them to do because as a
press person, it kind of sucks to watch a movie
with like Bill Bria over the entire screen, you know
the time.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
People do it.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
So not saying it's right, but people do it. They
find a way.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, they do find a way.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
But this was just, yeah, this was a nonsense thing
because they just wanted the clout of oh look it's
dealing O'Brien having Kay six and it's like, okay, did
you get your likes, did you get your retweets?

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Good job?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Right?

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Oh god, well that's that's great. Well, at least you
had a great time. The weather looked better this year.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yeah, the weather was better.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
There was only one day of just like a downpour
of snow, but it looked pretty. At least I wore
the right shoes. I think actually remembers the last year
I wore the wrong shoes.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's like, what were you thinking?

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Yeah, so I wore the right shoes, the right clothes.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
I'm such a stage mom.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Was it were you not prepared for the snow or
just oh no, it was because I thought you put
your feet right in the slush ice.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah. I put my feet right in the slush ice.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
But I thought, oh, these leather Doc Martins are the
perfect all around shoe for this festival because I look
fancy but they're kind of boots, but they're kind of
not I did not realize that leather was just going
to keep eating into my heels, you know, walking everywhere
until eventually my feet were bleeding.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
I was like, we're going to Kmart and we're getting
some new balances.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
Okay, so yeah, all around much more successful. So that's
why I mean, I understand there's economics involved, So I
I if it's a move.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
It happens to move.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
But I feel like I'm more of an expert in
the city right now, so it's like I know how
to navigate it pretty well.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
I know what it is like. Please don't move if
you don't have to.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, Colorado's fun could be fun with I've never been.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, all right with that, we're going to take
a quick break and we'll be right back after these
miss ups from the grave that we have no control over,
and now it is time for our feature film.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
All right.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
So at the beginning, I did say Presence was twenty
twenty four, and I know everybody at home was.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like, it's twenty twenty five. Girl.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Technically, Bill saw this exactly a year ago, about when
the film came out with the twenty the nineteenth that
came out, and it came out January twenty fourth, twenty
twenty five. It's a lot of numbers. Yeah, So I
remember when you were talking about it. I was super
excited to see this one, and it was on my
top list on Multiverse News of hers. I was very

(28:26):
excited to see and I'm gonna say I was pleasantly surprised.
I liked it a lot I was expecting something else,
and I blame their marketing a little bit for that,
because I haven't seen like a fun like a balls
to the walls horror haunted house movie that hasn't been
like a mainstream market like an Insidious or something like that.

(28:48):
Like I was looking forward to a haunted house movie
with you know, just keeping it simple from the point
of view of the ghost, which they'd never done before.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
But they didn't do that.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
They really took the story and made it something a
lot deeper and a lot I don't know. I don't
I was confused a byt the end, but after extensive talks,
I think I know what happened.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
How about you, guys, what did you think on your rewatch?

Speaker 1 (29:13):
And you've both seen this twice, haven't you.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
I've only seen it the once. But okay, from the
moment you shared the trailer with me, it's been one
that I have been hotly anticipating. And I think I
agree with you in terms of like the trailer misleading
a bit. I did go in with certain expectations, but
I for one was happy to be misled in that
regard because I think to your point, what was presented
was a lot more impactful and deep. So I did

(29:39):
thoroughly enjoy it and kind of like what you brought
up about some of the sun Dance films there built.
I don't know if it's for everybody, So it's not
a film that I can like, shout from the rooftops
from or anything like that, but there's definitely plenty of
there to make it a memorable take on the haunted
house subgenre. And it's a slow burn, but it definitely
rewards that patience and spades in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, it's it's I was pleased to see that it's
the exact same movie I saw a year ago, because
you never know. When these things get delayed, it's always
possible for changes to be made or something of that nature.
But as far as I could tell, it wasn't manipulated
or changed. I was dismayed to see the marketing campaign
that they went with for it, because knowing what it was,

(30:21):
I was like, oh, baby girl, what is you doing?
Like like, this is not the oh You're gonna shit
your pants from fear, you know, that's not the kind
of movie this is.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
I do feel I do worry that Neon.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
The studio that picked it up for distribution and put
it out in theaters this month. I do worry that
they're kind of laying on the same type of campaign
for their horror films, maybe too much.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
You know.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Obviously it worked, you know, Gangbusters for long Legs, and
I think depending on your you know, even depending on
your personal take on that movie, like you know, you
might say, oh, it's not The Curious Ever. But at
least I feel like there was a way in for
them on that for saying that that movie was all
the scuriest thing ever. This one it was a harder sell,
you know, in this one. I think that they were

(31:06):
not fibbing, but like stretching the truth quite a bit.
And I you know, that's that's been a tradition of
of you know, movie marketing since the beginning, you know,
the ballely who of like, oh you're gonna you know,
be so scared, you're gonna poop your pants, like you know,
that's that thing's been with us forever, and so the
unscrupulousness of it, it's like, Okay, that's kind of you know,

(31:27):
par for the course. I am pleased though that almost
to a person, uh, you know, not not saying everybody,
but I feel like, almost to a person, even though
everybody's saying that, everybody you know who's gone to see
it goes, well, you know, it wasn't what the marketing
said or you know, that trailer was misleading. Nobody's come
away saying, oh, I was so disappointed, Like it was
so crap and it was so like I didn't even care,

(31:48):
like sort of thing. People are still coming away from
it realizing that there's value to it, you know, realizing
that there's there's at least interest in the story or
the script or the technique, you know, the way that
the things shot.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
And so I think it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
It was only a two million dollar budget and it's
made I don't know, like fifty three million so far.
It's doing very well, which is good for like the
small little movie. But I just there was a couple
of things that I did off the I'll talk about
the bad stuff first, so we'll get it.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
I hated the script.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
I thought the script kept taking me out of it
because I just felt like that's not how a family
would talk. There was just certain things, like specifically, we
have this whole breakdown of like mother son father daughter
relationships in there, and there's the one scene when he's
laughing about like.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
I don't know, taking a naked picture of one of
the girls or something like at school. It wasn't like
an assault.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
But and then he shows his mom like, mom, look
at the picture and she laughs and I and they
have this weird, problematic relationship.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
But like that whole scene, it just kind of you're like, this.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Is very weird, and I like they're trying to force
what happens, you know, with the whole room shaking. You
know why of course they would be so upset and
go shake the room. But there's just some things with
the writing that were just very off, and I don't know,
I guess they were trying to make it feel more realistic,
because if you're a ghost in a house and just
watching people do mundane things, the conversations are going to

(33:13):
be mundane and boring. And that's why I thought, like
a conversation like that was so jarring. I don't know,
I just I'm like, not a mother. But no matter
how much I thought my baby boy was the best,
I don't think i'd be like, oh, look at that
picture of the girl. You guys you know bullied at school?

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yeah, No, I think that I was fine with it
based on the notion that, yeah, if we're watching this
from the position of the ghost who nobody knows is
there until the end, maybe then the point of having
that perspective that POV is, Oh, you're going to be
privy to moments that people are unguarded people. Aren't you

(33:51):
gonna be operating or acting in the way that they
would if there were other people in the room. I
think one of the problems you were mentioning at that
scene is the fact that, as I recall, they're not
the only people in the room when that's happening.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
The dad's there too, right.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
I think in the same scene they continue to bully
the daughter, the mom and son, like just get over
your best friends recently dying. Again, You're like, what's happening
in this family? And we know that the mom's going
through stuff because we don't ever, they keep things very ambiguous,
So the mom is doing something illegal finance.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
I like that we never fully get a sense of
exactly what that is because I like that there's just
the implication of like there's some runen dend mark about
their shady finances or you know, whatever it is that
she thinks she's doing for her son, right, you know. Again,
I think that, yes, it is unrealistic for sure, But
at the same time I understand, like, you know, the

(34:44):
theme of that is like, yeah, we're going to show
you stuff that, like, you know, you wouldn't necessarily be.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Allowed to see because it's behind closed doors.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
But also it's not even it's one step beyond beyond
closed doors where it's like, you know, God knows, I've
done stuff alone in my room. Like if a ghost
was here seeing this, like you know, it would look
pretty fable.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
That would make more sense than the whole family sitting
around laughing.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
You know. That's why I'm considering your point.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
Like, definitely, I understand, like, yeah, there's there's like they
kind of push it a little further to like just
instead of one person or two people, it's like all
of them around. And yeah, but I do think that
that was in their heads in terms of like this
is what we're going to try and show people, you know,
because it's a privileged position of the ghost perspective where
it's like they don't know they're there, you know, sort
of m h.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yeah. I think it's a fair criticism that certain members
of the family were fleshed out a lot better than
the others, and really Lucy Lou's characters kind of the
one that kind of stands out is like by keeping
her at arm's length the whole movie up until the end,
like she is the one that you get to know
the least. But that's that's kind of what they were
going for, right, She's supposed to be mysterious, we're supposed
to not not really know what's going on with her.

(35:50):
But there was a certain point in the movie I
can't remember exactly where, but kind of acknowledging that it
was a slow burn, I started to have the thought, like,
I think the filmmaking in the direction of the real
stars of this movie for me. But then by the
time we got to that final act, it managed to
the narrative zigged and zag where I wasn't expecting so,

(36:10):
and then it introduced to the elements of like nonlinear storytelling.
So by the end I was really satisfied that it
was a novel approach to like a tried and true
concept in a haunted house story, but just from every
angle it's taking a novel approach, and I did appreciate.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
That about it. Oh shit.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
So the plot of this movie is a family move
into a home that's already has a presence that lives there,
and as their Norman Rockwell life starts to fall apart,
we find that there's so much more going on than
a usual ghost story.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So I did.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
I thought that the story was interesting, like it does
shine a light on what it's like to be, you know,
that angsty teenage girl and just thinking like, I don't
know if this is what a ghost is, like if
that's ghost life. When you think it's a ghost in
the beginning, I'm like, I could do this. It would
just be like watching The Real Housewives all the time
in different families move It's like a different show starts

(37:01):
all the time. You just kind of kind of moving
stuff for fun, not really because you're like, what is
the point of this ghost? We don't know what they're
doing there. He's just he she's just kind of hanging
a day. Is it just kind of hanging in the closet?
And then you're like, oh god, when you get it
makes you think the next whole day, like, God, is
there a ghost in here?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
When I get out of the shower, what are they
looking at?

Speaker 4 (37:19):
You?

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Know the things you say alone. But I thought that
it was shot so it was fun. Like the way
the ghost is floating around the house and just getting
involved in all the different stuff.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
It felt very real.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
I guess, so I have I should just say this now.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
I have a very privileged perspective on this movie for
a couple of reasons. One is, obviously, you know, seeing
it early and at the festival with the Q and
A and all that, and sort of getting an instant
download of like what the intention was behind it and
what they did, and you know the fact that they
shot this in eleven days.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Which is just mind blowing.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
That's wild.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
It was so crazy.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
But the other privileged position about this is I technically
it got to work with Steven Soderberg a couple of
times as an extra. You know, so nobody, nobody special,
But I got to do background on his movie side effects, uh,
the one with Catherinezia Jones. But that was just sitting
in like a a pew or something in a in

(38:14):
a trial, like in a jury, you know.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Box.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
The more instructive thing that I saw and got to
work with on was an episode of The Nick The Show.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, it was a great show.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
I think it was Stars or something, Yeah, about the
the hospital.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
In the eighteen whatever's with Clive Owen and.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Uh and Bono's daughter.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
And Soderberg is renowned in the industry for his speed.
You know, obviously we just said eleven days. And the
reason for that is because he's most of the time
his own cinematographer, Like it is him holding the camera.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
And I remember, I'll always remember one of the scenes
that we shot for this whatever episode I was hired for.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
It was me and like two other people.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
We were sort of I don't know, like nurses or
aids or something kind of shoved in the background. And
you know, it was a small, tiny room because they
were shooting on these sets in Brooklyn, and Soderberg was
there and his usual like you know, I think he
was if not all black, then like close to all
black sneakers, you know, like anything that was like very mobile,

(39:25):
like anything that wasn't going to impede his motion, because
like the dude is just like a I can't think
of an animal like a I don't know what's a
fast animal, us cheetah or something. Yeah, something like very
graceful gazelle right where like he was just over here
and over there and over here and over there, and
it was just like set up, set up, set up,
set up, single camera. You know, he wasn't using multiple cameras.

(39:48):
And that was you know, because at that point I'd
been doing a lot of background work. This was just
before I went into the liver transplant surgery, so this
was like twenty three and it was, you know, something
I I'd been doing for to pay the bills at
that time. And the more you spend time on movie
or TV sets, the more you realize there's you know,

(40:08):
it's all that hurry up and wait stuff of like
you know, you're taking hours to shoot two pages dialogue
or whatever. And Soderberg is one of those who can
shoot a movie in eleven days or you know, a
scene in like ten minutes instead of two hours, you
know sort of thing, because he's just that insanely fast.
So when I watch Presence, even just the way that

(40:29):
the camera moves through that space, through the house, and
you know, you'll read any interview with Soderberg about this movie,
You'll he'll tell you like, yeah, it was me as
the camera all the time, and I was carrying the
camera the whole time, and I can just sort of
in the back of my mind picture him, you know,
doing all of that. So yeah, I think that I
think that makes it even richer for me because it's

(40:52):
that sort of thing of like, I know, the scrappiness
of how he got this made. You know, I can
sort of see the way that he was utilizing, you know,
his instincts of just like Okay, I'm gonna grab this
over here and grab it over there and like focus
on this now and sort of thing, which just I
find endearing because yeah, it's something that you know, is
clearly his technique.

Speaker 5 (41:11):
Yeah, that's fascinating to learn that he was the sole cameraman,
because as I was watching the film, like they were
playing around with with focal length, with the way the
perspective was shifting and you had warping happening in real time.
So I was trying to come up with how did
they achieve this? And the only thing I could imagine
is having like multiple cameras rigged to like some kind
of motion control. So if he was the sole cameraman,
he had to have like some kind of like gimbal

(41:33):
harness attached to him. So I can't wait to see
the behind the scenes on this and just speaking to
the way Soderberg always pushes the envelope with his filmmaking.
He did that film Unseen right with Carrie Mulligan. Then
he shot that all on the iPhone. That was like
his claim to fame for that.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Right, Uh clearfoyo yeah claarfoy sorry, but yeah no, And
that's another if not single camera close to it and
just like how weirdly personal and intense that movie is
because of how you could.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Just sort of feel the closeness, right.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
I think what he's able to get out of his
performers is specifically given that he usually is operating the camera.
Is that sort of old Hollywood style thing of like
you know where john Ford or somebody would be literally
sitting next to the camera as opposed to like nowadays
most directors are back at video village, you.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Know, right in a tent zone.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Is it like Inland Empire how he's kind of in
their faces?

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Yeah, yeah, nice, Okay, Yeah, that sort of idea where
it's like, you know, if you're right here, you know,
it's like, yeah, you're.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Performing to him almost right.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
So yeah, So jumping into the story a little bit,
so we talked about Lucy Lu.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
She had a illegal stuff going on.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
The husband, we don't really know what he does, but
he is concerned and he's thinking about leaving her.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
So we come to the main.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
The sun is like the shining star the family. He's
the swimmer, I guess, and he's kind of a jerk.
He's dealing with his own things because the mom has
this weird obsession with him that she doesn't show to
the daughter, which we never really find out kind of why.
It's just I guess that Lucy Lu's kind of just
a pulled, I don't know mother. But the daughter is
dealing with the death of her best friends, two friends,

(43:05):
and one of them was her best friends that they
were saying was from drug overdoses.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
So she's obviously.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Been very depressed and upset, and like the dad's being
very nice to her, but the rest of the family's
kind of just not really caring. And so she's of
course the first person to kind of notice that there's
a presence in the house and she can feel that,
you know, there's something there.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
And also let me ask you, guys, because this is
to your what you're describing about the backstory, there's a
bit of the backstory that we're deliberately not told. And
I'm curious about your guys's interpretation because it does involve
the daughter.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
It does evolve uh oh, what's her name? Chloe? Chloe,
And you know, we know that she's lost her friends recently.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
We know that she's in a depression or like a
funk over this, of course, but like there is something
involving her, which I think the dad had said, or
maybe that the daddy and the mom about and I
think Tyler even the brother too, about the fact that
they've had to move into this new house and maybe
even a new school is because of something that happened
at their last school with great or something.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
And I don't take well, I was thinking it was
like that the friends were killed and so that they
moved her out of that school district and that's why
she's extra alone, is she doesn't have anybody around her.
So I thought that was wellre that like interpretations, it
could be anything. I thought that that's what it was,
is they moved because of all these like, oh, I
guess that wouldn't be right, that's not right because the yeah,

(44:29):
the twist lives.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
In that city.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, so never mind right.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Yeah, So that's what's curious to me too, is the
fact that, like it feels like there's an incident that
happened before the film starts that we don't get told.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah I thought they moved for his swimming or I
don't know.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
Yeah, yeah, I wondered if there was maybe an attempted
suicide or something like that.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Or junior drug use, because but.

Speaker 5 (44:52):
She has that conversation with I think the character's name
is Ryan, and he's asking her what did it feel like?
And she's just like really saying, like I wanted to
be there with her experience with her. So I think
it's a character that's already prone to depression, So the
concern for her reeling from a loss would be, you know,
even more so from these.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Parents survivor's guild to that nothing.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
That's just kind of my interpretation.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, I wonder if she tried to also kill herself afterwards,
because the dad was like, do you want to lose
her too?

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Like you know you've already.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
He said something about already losing one kid? Did another
kid die?

Speaker 5 (45:25):
I think it's just the community really from the loss.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, Okay, there's a lot and that's what they do
when they don't tell you, and it's kind of fun,
Like we talked about this movie a lot after it
was over, because they do it is kind of a
basic ghost story until it's just not. They do things like, oh,
look at this old mirror that lives that's in the house.
You know it's a magnesium blah blah blah, and you
know you might see stuff in it, all the way

(45:49):
to bringing the psychic in which they treat just like
every other. The dialogue in that scene is like paranormal
activity dialogue.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
It's almost I'm like, oh my god, you guys, please.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
The movie deliberately invites these comparisons. I wrote a whole
article about how the opening and closing text font is
the same font used in Poltergeist.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (46:08):
Yeah yeah. I think the paranormal activity comparison is right
there in terms of like those were the first kind
of films to evolve the genre in terms of introducing
found footage and like piecemealing a narrative. But then I
also think twenty seventeen is a ghost story from a
twenty four is right there because you're dealing with perspective
characters and like the passage of time. So this really

(46:30):
does feel like kind of the next step in that
progression by weaving all of those novel kind of approaches
together so seamlessly. But I'd be kicking myself if I
if I also didn't note the similarities to Hereditary, at
least thematically. And that's my easily my favorite, you know,
horror film from the last ten years. You got the
themes of grief compounded with the family drama, drama and

(46:52):
specifically a like uneasy almost like rivalry between siblings and
their relationship.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
Oh sure, and there's another big and I find which
you were talking about before off camera or off mike ash,
which is Interstellar.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Oh I think, oh yeah, okay.

Speaker 5 (47:07):
Yeah, yeah interesting.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Well yeah, that's something there all right.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Before we get to the twist, just for the people
who haven't seen it, the realtor is the one who's like,
oh I know where this uh this uh psychic is,
which I thought was hilarious because it's always the realtor,
you know. We find out that the son has the
friend who's the friend's named Ryan, and he's been coming
around and then he's been you know, messing around with

(47:32):
Chloe and as an adult I watch those scenes and
I see myself in her position, and I freak out
because this kid is blatantly telling you that he's crazy
and has control issues, and then in the same breath
telling you.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
No, you're in control, you are the one in charge.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
When he just had a meltdown, telling you that that
is the worst thing that could happen to him.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Sixteen year old me would be in that bed.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Like, oh, my God, really gots anyway, he loves me,
I'm gonna have babies.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Bah.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
My age me is like, oh my god. The red
flags that she's not seeing that I didn't see, and
I feel the energy of the ghost being like, ah,
what he was doing? And I love I love.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
The scene when the ghost saves are the first time
because this kid is drugging her for what reasons I'm
not sure because I'm like, she's having sex with you,
what is the need to drug her?

Speaker 5 (48:24):
Right?

Speaker 1 (48:25):
But the ghost bats down that orange juice. And I
loved that scene because I'm like, oh, we are Patrick
Swaeze ghosting over here.

Speaker 5 (48:31):
Now.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
You know you put in the books up, but nothing
like major yet, but little things like that, You're seeing
that this kid's problematic. But he just I don't know, millennials,
not millennials, what are the new ones gen Z, I
don't know. Like the way that they talked and act,
I'm like, ah, maybe they are more sensitive.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I can't judge these kids.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
Yeah, they should judge these There is a like it's
a common joke amongst people that like the thing about
the defining characteristic about gen Z is trauma bonding. So
you know, it's well founded and and people should talk
about their trauma, but you know, it's it's there. But
in terms of this this, I'm gonna call him Dexter
Junior because I mean, he's a total creep. But in

(49:11):
terms of the method of murder, like it was, I
was unnerved and I had kind of a feeling that
I haven't had since Breaking Bad, where I felt like,
is this kind of like socially irresponsible to like show
people this way of killing people because it is largely
untraceabul And so I thought back to like Breaking Bad
when they use the the house is being fumigated from
old as they're sorry spoilers for Breaking Bad.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
But they are also ways to kill yourself by j
I don't know, or kill other people that is awful.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
It was just it was a little terrifying for me.
I was just like, I hope this Yeah, because again
with the Dexter comparison. Sorry I'm taking it sounds of
down such a dark path, but there were you know,
copycat killers based on Dexter and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
So yeah, well that's why I love the technique and
the and the stylistic choices of the movie. And I
know that this is very high falutine like film junkie, cinophile,
you know, jerk Offs time, but whatever, like that's this
is a Soderbrig movie. Like you know, the dude has
always been a centophile jerkoff style you know, uh, movie

(50:14):
maker since his first feature. So like, I think that
it's it's so clever to do. Oh I'm going to
do it from the perspective of a ghost and to
make that into a meditation on not just like the
powerlessness of if you were like if you were a ghost,
like if you had to live your existence as this

(50:34):
disembodied spirit that maybe doesn't even know who you are,
or like it doesn't have a definition about like you
can't say I am Bill and I am this year whatever.
You just have emotions like, you're just in this emotional,
fully emotional, fully disembodied spirit that can move around and
has autonomy in some ways, but doesn't have a voice.
It doesn't have you know, externalization and can maybe occasionally

(50:56):
influence the physical world in certain ways but not others.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Uh how you know how helpless you might feel?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Sure, But I love combining that with the meta commentary
on us audience members as viewers, where it's like, we're
watching this, we ostensibly came to this movie for entertainment, right.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
It is similar to.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
A Michael Hanneket thing without the smugness of Michael Hannekey
in Funny Games being like pause, you know, oh, say
the poor people now because you're screwed, you know sort
of thing. I mean, Michael Hanneke is putting a finger
in your face and going ha ha ha. You know,
this is much subtler and much more I think richer,
you know experience of Soderberg being like, yeah, you can't

(51:38):
help him, doesn't that suck?

Speaker 3 (51:39):
You know sort of thing?

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah? But look, I mean, or can you? You're a
time traveling girls?

Speaker 5 (51:45):
So was the ghost time traveling? That's my big question
because I think and this this movie, I cannot wait
to rewatch it, to catch all the foreshadowing. I think
back to the very first thing we saw was the
ghost kind of coming to looking down on the place
that Tyler died, the very spot on the driveway from
the window, and from there we drift up and do
a whole pan of the house. So I know the

(52:07):
mirror was a source of like entrapment, but was it
also a source of time dilation? I think it's yeah,
just inherently fast.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
My interpretation too, is that I think there's an because
again seeing this twice, I think there's an interpretation to
be had where you could say, maybe it's not even
time travel but just sort of time distortion.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Sure, it's like, you.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Know, well the psychic says something.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Right, the psychic does say something.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
But I mean what I was going to say is
that once Tyler sees Tyler, the ghost sees his reflection
in the mirror, and you know, then the mother sees
it too, and there's that identification moment of like, not
only do the people outside know whose spirit it is,
but also the spirit itself now knows what it is.
That's when it's able to leave. That's what it's able
now it's yeah, it's right now.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Because the psychic mentioned how the presences experience, can experience
or is experiencing the past, president, and future all at
the same time, and that it has a purpose, but
it still was trying to figure out what that purpose was, and.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
It didn't know who he was, and.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
You know, she they kind of were like, oh, you're
a hustler, get out of here. She comes back and
she says, I had a dream about a window that
doesn't open.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Is that what she said? Yeah, something like that, Yeah,
something like that.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
And then you know, I guess we can kind of
like move it along. She you know, Ryan comes over
to bang Chloe and he puts uh Tyler out with
ambient and then goes and tells Chloe, and Chloe is
not cool with that, so she's like, I'm not having
sex with you, and so he drugs her, puts it
in the drink, and this time she drinks it and
that's when the ghost the presence goes down and wakes

(53:43):
Tyler up. Tyler runs upstairs see what's happening. They get
into a fight and they both fell out the window
and die somehow. I'm sorry, but I mean, would you die?
I don't even know that it's not that high of
a window. Well he's running though, yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
So I was like, damn, that was fast. And yeah,
so he dies.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
And then it changes the story completely when you see
him in the mirror, and then you're like, what just happened?

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Wait a minute?

Speaker 1 (54:11):
What movie is this? What kind of movie did I
just watch? And then all the things that you heard
and you start to try to put it together because
I only seeing it, you know, once, you're like, wait
a minute, did they show us?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Did they this?

Speaker 1 (54:22):
But the little throwaway lines do help. And I really
thought that was fun, Like what an interesting twist on
your classic kind of ghost story.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
Yeah. I thought that was one of the strongest parts
of the movie too, because, like we talked about it,
not only am I questioning the presence identity, but also
its intent and motivation and for it's all come full
circle in the end. This was ultimately a brother that
was kind of shitty to his sister in life but
ultimately got to be that protector and as an older
brother of siblings, that really does resonate with me.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
No, It's a really powerful completion of a character arc
that you maybe didn't assume was going to be complete
it because Tyler, the corporeal Tyler, you know, the Tyler
that we see throughout the movie is just almost you know,
irredeemable in terms of how awful he is towards Yeah,
and you know, I think that would almost be a

(55:15):
flaw if this was a movie where that wasn't the
case where you have this you know, elliptical structure, because
you know it is almost cartoonish. But yeah, on a
second watch, it is really kind of, you know, heartbreaking
because every time he is bad to her, that's when
you'll see a little bit of shake going on, or
a little bit of movement or something. There's a moment

(55:35):
I forget what scene it is, but I think it's
when he the presence trash is Tyler's room, where it's
like Tyler.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
That was the scene they were all making fun of her,
except the dad was like, come on, guys, stop, and
they were talking about not only her, but this other
girl that he embarrassed in front of the whole school.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, which is awful.

Speaker 5 (55:54):
Yeah, the dad was a great red herring too, because, like,
as I was there, there were points during the movie
I question, could it be any member of this family,
including Lucy Lou, but the dad was the one I
was leaning the strongest towards until the very end there.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
And I will say all I knew it was it
was it wasn't her dead friend, right.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Well, I was gonna say that that is.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
I thought that was an effective, uh misdirect, just because thematically,
you know, you could sort of see a lesser movie
being like, yes, this is the you know, revenge tale
of the dead friend we never see you know where
It's like, oh, she's she's coming back to do it
for the gals, you know sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
It's like that would have been, you know, a log
line of another movie.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
If the ghost hadn't started in the house, maybe I
would have thought that. But if they do, make it
seem like this is this ghost house, he hangs out
and just waits.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
I don't know, I just wanted it.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
I guess it is Tyler is he He was doing
stuff like he I was like, he's cast for the
Friendly Ghost. He's just hanging out in the closet. And
he was, you know, doing nice things like oh look
at this, I really like how you painted the walls.
You know, he was busy being nice moving her stuff
for school. But I did like when the whole found
he finally sees it, because that's always my favorite part
of a haunting house, like the Haunted House movie, is

(57:04):
when everybody finally believes and they're like, oh shit, and
they all run out the back door and nobody wants
to come back inside the house. So there was moments
of levity at least, and they did it. It was funny,
and Lucy lud did a great job, especially at the end.
I mean, she just breaks your heart. It's interesting that
they would move out of the house because you would
think that, you know, that ties she seemed like she

(57:26):
was so attached to him that she would want to stay,
and I could see that tearing the family apart. But
it was only an hour and twenty five minute runtime,
which is why like a slowburn like that is perfect
for an hour and twenty five minutes. If that movie
was any longer, I might have had just a little
bit worse to stay about it, But it was the
perfect run time for what they were doing.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
No, it's very economical, And I think that's another hallmark
of Soderberk too, is that he's not typically a long
winded guy, even though he made his shake of our
movie into two parts and I think each one is
like super long or something. Yeah, he definite feels like
he never feels like he's got a lot of fat
on him.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
You know. I love the score.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
I just want to say that it's very oh yeah moving,
you know, and it's very again, It's it's an element
of the movie that when you're first watching it, you're like,
why is this so sad, And then on a second
watch you're like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
It has to be sad.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
It has to be this sad.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
And it's very pretty though with a little bit of
creepiness to it.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
But yeah, I want to say Zach Ryan is the composer,
and so yeah, shout out to him for doing a
cool job there. And yeah, as far as I understand
it from what the interviews I've read, you know, this
this cast, this ensemble cast didn't improvise a whole lot,
but they didn't have much time to rehearse either. So

(58:43):
like giving them as much of a lived in feeling
as possible as they as they have, like you know, commendable.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
To them too, Well, that makes a whole lot more
sense for why the script is the way it is,
and I can't wait to tell the significant other who
will be listening to it now. But I'm going to
tell them as soon as I going in the other room,
because that makes a lot more sense for it, because
the script was almost unforgivable for him, and when we
were talking about it, I understand, like we were, really,
when you listen to it, you're like, what is this?

Speaker 2 (59:09):
But that makes a little bit more sense.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
And I think that, Yeah, I think that because when
you realize, okay, it's one it's sought to bring on
the camera. He's got to tell every actor, like, you know,
they're blocking, but the blocking has to seem naturalistic. He
can't put marks on the floor, you know, because you
can see the floor most of the time, so it's
really going to have to be on them to like understand, look,
you have to move from here to hear without having

(59:34):
a visual of where I can move. Yeah, most of
every scene I think is a wonner, right. I'm pretty sure.
Like the cuts are very deliberate in terms of.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
I love the ghost running up the stuffs. Yeah, and
the whole time I'm like, look at those crown moldings.
Oh my god, I would love this Foyer.

Speaker 5 (59:49):
Sorry to change gears here a little bit, do did
we mention? This was written by David Kepp. It was
legendary David Kepp.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Yeah, and I think, what's the other movie with him?

Speaker 1 (59:57):
He wrote the Zoe's Zoe Kravatz one yea.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
Yeah, it's a it's like a very like throwback paranoid
like seventies kind of thriller, but like with yeah, Kimi
with Zoe with a Zoe Kravitz, but.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Uh Cravats, I'm like not.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
So here's the thing, Like David Kep has like been
steadily working since like the late eighties, right, and he
jumps between like very tight, uh you know, sort of
indie scripts and very broad you know, blockbuster stuff. You know,
when you have a range between Jurassic Park, Mission Impossible,
Spider Man, a couple of Indiana Jones movies, and then

(01:00:38):
stuff like uh this and Kimi and uh the Trigger Effect.
And the one I wanted to mention the most is
Stir of Echoes because if you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Felt very stir of Echoes, refresh my memory.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
Bacon Bacon as a dad who finds out he's very
susceptible to I think it's hypnotic suggestion.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah, they live in what Brooklyn, Chicago or something.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
They are like in a nice little doing and he
gets hypnotized at a party by uh Olympia. Yeah, and
it just opens his eyes to you know, he's thees
ghosts now very sixth sensy. Really yea Black was the
main theme song of the movie Surprised.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
It is similar in theme in the sense that, like
it starts out as a very creepy ghost story.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Right, and then yeah, and then it takes a turn.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Yeah, it opens up into you know, there's some social commentary.

Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
We'll just say that, all right. But it's based on
a Richard Matheson short story as well. Uh, and this
one is its own original, but it has I feel
like it has like, you know, similar ties to Matthison's work,
but just this like you were saying, Scottie, and also
I think you ask were it's just like, yeah, it's
very classical, and it's themes about the ghost story being

(01:01:57):
a story of oh there's unfinished business. Uh, there's something
I have to do before I can move on, you
know that sort of thing. There's a mystery, you know,
there's all that. So I think all of those present
elements are present here, but they're tweaked just a little
bit in a very interesting way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Speaking of movies, do we have any recommendations to go
along with this little ghost story?

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Do you want me to go first?

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Yeah, let me scroll down.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
I am picking.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Oh shoot, I don't have the year I wrote twenty
one Enter the Void if anybody knows what years that
came out. It's a psychedelic acid trip in which a
young man takes a wild journey into the afterlife. It's
got a lot of tokyo and a lot of neon
and it's really crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
So I really liked to Enter the Void.

Speaker 5 (01:02:43):
As for me, I'm going to cite another movie that
I compared this one during our conversation to, but that
is twenty seventeen. It's a ghost story from a twenty
four directed by written and directed by David Lowry.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Is that the casey affleck one?

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
And I can't for that movie. I saw the trailer
and I was like, I'm not watching it. Those kind
of movies make me very sad. I'm not going to
give anything away but what it's about. But I was like, oh,
my worst nightmare.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Thanks, that's fair, That's fair. There are some things that
actually scare me, and that's that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
I this is. I mean, I could just say, well,
you'll story of Echoes.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Because I thought you were going to to be honest,
I was surprised you mentioned it early.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Yeah, But I feel like since I mentioned that in
the body of the movie, I'm going to go a
completely different direction. I know this isn't the horror movie,
but this is, you know, partially my show. So whatever
I'm gonna I'm gonna say, if you like the style
of this movie, as in the POV style, then you
may want to see Hold.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
And I just have to have to look up for
the year look at you doing your due diligence. I
was like, screw it, I don't even care.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
You may want to see two zero one.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Nineteen forty seven movie Lady in the Lake directed by
Rodner Montgomery, which is a Raymond Chance blind Matter no
and is a film noir, so it's, you know, not
a horror movie, but it does have murder in it,
and there's murder mystery and everything like that. But the
entire movie is shot from the character's point of view.

(01:04:16):
Uh so it has a similar you know vibe to
you are part of this story, you're involved, and you know,
you're much more involved in Lady in the Lake than
you were in Presence. But I think if if you
want to see an experimental style of this in you know,
a way that's like decades earlier, then you know you
can sort of compare it to trast the the way
that it's still very irrelevant in the in cinema today.

(01:04:39):
Very cool, very cool, also more stir of Echoes because
it's also a great coat story.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Well, I remember when I was being mad at Star
of Echos for the twist, but now when I watched
it again older, I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting,
not the twist, but I want it like when it's scary.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
It's scary. Yeah yeah, And then they pull back and
I'm like no.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
And great soundtrack, Like you said, great soundtrack. Thank you
all for joining us for this episode of Bill and
Ashley's part of the Stranded Pen Network. You could find
my work in the show notes links below. Check us
out on social media. You can find the show at
strandedpanda dot com and everywhere else to get your podcasts.

(01:05:21):
If you have questions or comments, please feel free to
write to us at Bill and Ashtaro Theater at gmail
dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
We're dying to take her from seeing who. Likewise