Sinners

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome to another horrifying special review episode of Bill and
Ashley's Terror Theater on the Marque. This week is twenty
twenty five sinners. Join us right after we get back
from absolutely never inviting anyone into anywhere ever again all
that after these ads we have no control over. Welcome
back on, Ashley Coffin, joined us always by my co

(00:50):
host in Terror, Bill Bria. Bill Darling, how are we
this Easter Sunday?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm doing okay, ash But do you smell anything? Because
I think I shit myself.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Well, we will get into our feature film soon, but
you do have a little Easter eggs for us of
news from the Necronoma Bunny. So what do you come from?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh, the Nekronama Bunny has brought some eggs for us.
The first one is particularly pastel colored, very festive, but
also very bizarre, which is a scoop that was blown
on the internet earlier this week as of our recording
this Easter Sunday, which is that the killer Clowns from

(01:35):
outer space may actually be making a comeback from Amazon
MGM Studios, with the unlikely involvement of Sir Ryan Gosling
Yeah board as a producer.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Ryan Gosling just all over right now. He just had
that Star Wars movie announced.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yes, I don't know, because he was attached for so
long to Leeweel's Wolfman and then famously bailed out. Yeah,
so I don't think we've actually properly gotten Gosling produced
or Gosling starring horror movie yet, but it seems like
he's really been circling these franchises and these things.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
So Mark Rakusha, friends of the cast, He and I
were discussing that just the other day, because do you
think it will be a Ryan Gosling starring or showing
up in or do you think it'll just be produced?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
I wonder because you know, obviously he for the longest
time was a screenpairing with his buddy Emma Stone. And
Emma Stone has proven herself to be interested in being
a producer. She produced a Real Pain or co produced
it with a bunch of people, and you know, famously
was called out by Jesse Eisenberg during one of his
speeches this past award season. And she does not appear

(02:45):
in that movie. But of course she's produced, you know,
her own movies as well, like Four Things, you know,
all that sort of thing. So I don't know if
Gosling's trying to take a page out of her book
and sort of trying to make himself more of a
just a behind the scenes producer guy and let the
cast be somebody else. Famously, Yeah, he hasn't famously yet,
so and you know, I don't know if if this
is something that he's just trying to make happen with

(03:07):
his own cloud, or if it's like you know, maybe
he would be in it. There Obviously isn't much more
information on it right now.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
I hope he's one of the clowns.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
That would be incredible.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's what I would do if I yeah, right, but
but yeah, it's being described as a remake, even though
why would you need to remake You can just do
another movie with killer clowns on it, right, Yeah. So
I don't know what, if what this will be. Obviously
it's way too early days to say if he's even
going to happen. But obviously the combination of the Property

(03:39):
and Gosling is too interesting to uh.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
To not mention.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's delicious.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Speaking of bizarre.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Sequels to cult eighties films, this is something that's not
going to happen. In fact, The reason why people are
talking about is because it's actively it's not going to
have and right now. But Emilio Estevez has revealed that
he actually wrote a script sequel to Maximum Overdrive himself.
He wrote it during the twenty twenty three sag after strike,

(04:14):
and so this is his quote. He says, with the
advent of more computer technology and AI and all of that,
I started to imagine what a sequel to Maximum Overdrive
would look like, and during the strike, I wrote one.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Is that what he just said?

Speaker 3 (04:27):
He didn't.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
He didn't, but he said he was inspired by the
rise of it, right, So he said, I started page one,
I started an idea. Now I'm on page ten, I'm
on page twenty. Now it's fifty pages. And I can't
stop Dino Delarentis or his company anyway, because Dino's long deceased.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Owns the rights to Maximum.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
I created an insane world, and in this proposed sequel
that he's written, he would reprise his role as Bill.
He says, he's got his own diner, he's got a
young daughter, and he's got his crew, his people, and
guy Fiery is coming to do diners, drive ins and
dives on the day the world falls apart in machines
turn okay, but he said he presented it to deal

(05:08):
reent his company, and the company responded with saying like, nope,
we have the rights to this.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
We're not interested. We're going to pursue our own thing.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
But I will say that one of the reasons about
Steves is back in the news. He also this is
not horror related, so we won't discuss it too much.
But he also in that same interview, or at least
another interview around the same time, was talking about a
Mighty Ducks sequel that he also wrote free of charge,
and apparently he's going into production I think later this year,

(05:39):
maybe in a month or two. On Young Guns three
that he also.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Is, is Charlie coming, Yeah, Well, I don't.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Know Charlie is because but apparently Lou Diamond Phillips is.
Because Lou Diamond Phillips is like posting all over the
place like we're gonna start shooting.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
It's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
So great, he's written this great script and I'm like,
you guys all died and Young Guns too, right.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay, whatever, that's fine, do whatever you guys.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Want you to, got to do too.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
But but yeah, Amilia is clearly in mode of like
revisiting his past.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
But I just I do it tickles me.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
The idea of a Maximum Overdrive sequel at all, but
also one where like guy Fieri would play a major part.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
I just like kill him off early, because can he act,
you know, like I guess he's acting like he likes
all the kinds of I don't know, I don't know. Okay,
you know what, Emilio, I'm just going to be happy
to have you back.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, please just just do more stuff, you know, as
crazy as it is, we'll happy happy to have you.
And in the same vein and also obviously related to
our episode today, something that I was not aware of previously,
but I guess has been kind of a concern for
a little while now, is that Ryan Coogler, director of
our feature film Today, has confirmed that his next project

(06:48):
might be bringing the X Files.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Back to the screen.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
And yeah, so he says to last podcast in the
left quote, I've been excited about that for a long time.
I'm fired up to get back to it. Some of
those aisodes, if we do our jobs right, will be
really fucking scary. We're gonna try to make something really
great and make something for the real X Files fans
and maybe find some new ones unquote. So obviously this
begs the question, like our David the Coveny or Gillian

(07:11):
Anderson involved it all because there kind of are the
X Files and he says there's no word yet, but
fingers crossed, and you know, obviously X Files as a
as like an idea. You know, it's it's a little
surprising that they haven't tried to do something with it
before now, in terms of spinning it off with new
characters or like remaking it or reboot whatever, because they

(07:35):
did their revival series not too long ago.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
I guess, yeah, I watched it.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, I watched it too.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
It it There was some really great moments in it,
But I do feel like it left everything in a
weird place and that I feel like can be laid
on the feet of Chris Carter, the original creator, who
I have my own thoughts and X Files because I've
seen all of it and you know, a huge X
File but that's the Philey. But but I feel like Chris,
it's like he had a five season plan and wanted

(08:03):
to end it with the movie and then everything past
the first movie is sort of like, Okay, we're still going. Yeah,
I agree with that, And so I feel like he's
always been a little bit lost and it's kind of
been like his cash cow, but like, you know, he's
never been able to let it go because it's kind
of the one thing that keeps keeps him business.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
The only other minor success he had was Millennium, and
that ended really soon. So I don't know what Coogler's
thinking with his X files reboot, if it's like a
full on like reboot, like or it's still in continuity
with Moulder and Scully, because like the format of X files,
you know, has like both the mythology stuff of like
you know, very tight continuity of like this happens and

(08:39):
this happens, and this happens. But we also have the
monster of the Week stuff, which is not connected to
anything almost, you know. So it sounds like that's kind
of where he's going. But I couldn't tell you, like
what his thoughts are about what where this is going.
But I trust him.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Enough to be interested.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
I do after this for sure, but yeah, hopefully beacause
you know, there's been throughout the history of X files
they tried to move away from both Moulder and Scully
with the John doggets you know, Robert Patrick and Annabeth
Gish Monica Rey is her character and tried to replace
them with those two and it never really worked. So

(09:14):
you know, there's a huge hurdle in terms of replacing
Older and Scully. So if they are trying to go
that direction, like, good luck to them. Yeah, that's gonna
be tricky.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, I wonder if it's been like long enough from
any of the like remakes or continuations and the original
series for this new generation of people who didn't yeah
watch it to be like, oh, what's the X Files?
And then you can kind of bring in these new
people where you'll keep it nostalgic for the people who
were fans. So I don't know, it's a hard thing

(09:44):
to balance.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
But yeah, we see Steed, Like I mean, obviously you
would never want to call them the same names. You
would want no, no, but even that, even beyond that,
even even beyond creating new characters, like you have to
just get like two cast members who are just like
the most fire mystery, Like you just need that.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, the will they want it? Won't They needs to
go for like five seasons, do not have them hook
up in season two. You have to hold it out
like they did in The X Files because that's the best.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
But yeah, no, it's it's it's a tricky bit of casting.
And so I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
There's obviously no rumors yet about who this could even be,
so no discussions yet. But yeah, it's almost like, I mean,
it's I guess even more than casting James Bond, because
James Bond is a proven you know, you can recast him,
and there's still a lot of juice in the tank.
But yeah, this is you need two people, not one.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
So yeah, good.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Luck, good luck, it's gonna be Michael B.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Jordan.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I mean, I'm not mad at that. It all depends, Yeah,
who the woman is then, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
They could just get Unumi Musaku.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Okay, let's go start tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
But yeah, so that's all the news I have this
week from the Nekronama Bunny.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
The Necronoma Bunny. All right, hop off, all right, Well
we'll be back with our feature film after these miss
ups from the grave that we have no control over,
and now it is time for our feature film. Okay,
so Sinners Yeah yeah, man, holy shit.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
So this is a movie that's been lighting up movie screens,
movie fans, film Twitter, anywhere you look that discusses movies online.
It's really across the board being received pretty damn well,
you know, which is kind of been a while since
we've had a movie that's done that. It feels like
we've had a lot of divisiveness obviously over the last

(11:40):
several months, if not a couple of years. But you
know this since the last great you know, Marvel movie
or blockbuster maybe Oppenheimer. You know, it feels like this
is one that everyone's getting really excited about and having
to see.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Oh I gotta go see it, gotta go see that
sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's They did a good job with their trailer,
I thought, because it's funny. My Ken and I were
discussing it. He was like, how did you know it
was vampires? And I was like, well, I have a
trained eye, I mean. But then when I watched the
trailer again, I was like, oh, you really they did
a good job with the first trailer not showing that
it was vamps. Like sure, Hailey Steinfeld's character, who I

(12:17):
didn't know that that was her until the movie was
going And I was like oh you kay, Bishop when
she had the blood down her face like that is
classic vampireism. But we were just recently talking about movies
that were like Dust Told Dawn that start one way
and go the other, and honestly, we couldn't really come

(12:39):
up with another one, like dear listeners, if you can
think of a movie that starts one way and ends
a completely different way, let us know, like a horror
specific too. But then this came along and I was like, damn,
if you didn't know there was I have a little
I really wish they didn't show that little part in
the beginning with it where Preacher boys having that little flash,
because if you didn't do that, you would shock the

(13:02):
shit out of people. And I love that. Yeah, but yeah,
like I don't know, I don't know what I was
expecting when I saw, you know, went to see the movie.
But it was not at all what I was expecting
in the best way, Like what a way to masterfully
meld like different genres together to this epic like gangster
vampire story set in jim Crow, Mississippi in the thirties

(13:23):
that like spans space and time musically, it was a
lot I was not. Yeah, I was like, oh, this
is why it's two and a half hours.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah right, It's not like yeah, because I know you
were trepidacious about the running time and I didn't want
to spoil anything for you, but it's sort of like, look,
it's not just a basic stage movie where it's like
they get stuck in the in the bar in act
one and then we have to wait like two hours
for them to get out sort of thing. Yeah, Like
it's it's you know, a richness that and I know
that that this is like a cliche of these times,

(13:53):
but I feel like the concept here is strong enough
that if Coogler was a weaker artist, you know, he
probably could have been convinced to make it like a
twelve episode limited series for Amazon or something. Oh yeah,
because there's totally enough character there. There's totally enough you know,
meat on the bone thematically and conceptually that you could

(14:16):
have extended this out even further and had you know,
twelve hours of this where it's like there's you know,
an episode for each of the Stack twins, or an
you know, an episode for well, you know this person
all that.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
It's funny you say that because we also came up
with two different other storylines, like not that we're saying,
like I thought this was great all the way through,
but I was like, oh, they could have done this
and it would have been as equally as cool of
a movie. Or they could have done this and it
would have been equally as cool of a movie, but
it mirrored too much of movies that we've already seen,
which is why this kind of did its own little thing.

(14:48):
But then just the beginning half in itself, it's kind
of just like I'm gonna make I'm gonna sa Dussel
Don a lot. I'm sorry if that pisses people off,
but that's one of my favorite movies. The beginning of
Dussel Down could be its own movie. We're so invested
in characters in the gangster part of it all in
the criminal like the criminal elements, you know, where is
it going? What could happen? Because you know them stealing

(15:08):
from al Capone is like mentioned to the side, but
like what if they came for this stuff, like came
for them.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yeah, that would have been an awesome MOVIEVE been really.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Invested, but it's vampires and that makes me even more happy.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, and I think what I wanted to get at with.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
What my point was about, like it could have been
a limited series, is that it's so invigorating to me
that it's not because it tells me that Coogler has
an actual vision for it. It's not an IP driven
like and this is not an IP obviously, but like
you know, it's not because it feels like even stuff
that isn't IP these days is trying to be made
into one, you know, where it's like, hey, let's extend
this as much as possible. Let's set up for a

(15:45):
cinematic universe. Let's blah blah blah blah blah, right, And
it just heartens me that Coogler is an artist who
has the vision and has these thoughts and has like
so much material to work with and says, no, this
is where it ends, and this is where it starts,
and this is there's nothing you know else in between,
like this is my version of this story and these characters,

(16:06):
and you know that's what movies should be and used
to be, you know, where it's like, this is something
that like, this is the format I want to tell
it in. This is how I want to present it,
you know, And that says so much about him to
me as an artist.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Well, it's super impressive that this is only his fifth film.
I mean he black The Black Panther series for MCU
is obviously where I came to like love him because
there's some of the best movies. Out of all what
fifty fucking movies that we have now, I don't even
know the Black Panther movies are the best. I you know,
the Creed films are good. Yeah, I like Fruitvale Station.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
But yeah, the fact that this is his fifth movie
and how absolutely stunningly beautiful it is, I know, getting
to sit through the credits. Did you see that he
thanked Christopher Nolan and there because he helped Yeah, he
helped him advise him on shooting the film in large
format photography, which it is stunningly beautiful. One of my
favorite shots is Jack O'Connell. Is that the I always

(17:05):
want to say, Jerry o'donald Jack O'Connell running while the
sun is setting, while kind of like smoking, like we
haven't really met the vampires yet, but he's running to
this house and he's on fire and he's being chased
down by Native Americans and just the shot it was
very like Hateful Eight, like you could tell. It was
these beautiful almost beautiful shots of like the scenery. And

(17:28):
we're going to get back to that scene because I
absolutely loved it.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
And shout out to cinematographer Autumn dural Arkipa, the DP woman,
who is the first woman ever to shoot in Native Imax.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Apparently.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Wow, so good for her because she's just got some
fabulous shots in this movie.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
And then I know that the DP has been with
him on all of his movies. I can't do what's
his name, I can't remember, but he's like, shout out
to you. Oh, I thought you said it was a
h it is a woman. Okay, I thought the other
well you said that was the first time they shot
on Imax. But this movie okay, because I know the
Black Panther movies were shot like.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
In oh well, like a Native Imax. That's why I
underline native because I bill believe.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Well you say that, like I should know what the
hell that.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Was, as in like the full full one seventy eight
to one frame. I think the Black Panther movies only
ever expanded to like one sixty or whatever, like the
middle ground Imax area ratio is okay, but anyway, so
that's what I read, and I you know, that could
be uh incorrect information too in terms of yeah, you're
right in terms of splitting hairs of like black Panther

(18:36):
versus this, But anyway, it's just it's just cool that
she's a great photographer.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, yeah, And for him, I think that there's something
really interesting when we start to talk about black directed
horror movies and how many of the black director horror
movies do kind of go back to have something to
do with vampires. Because there's Ganjin House, which is one
of it's a fun nineteen seventy three direct movie. Then
there's Blackula, and then I feel like this movie also

(19:04):
kind of had.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Some the Sweet Blood of Jesus, which is his.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Version of Godjo Yeah, yeah, but didn't that was the
one Demon night. This reminded me a little bit. There
was you know, you have the people in the place,
you know, the sinister, the main guy whose goal isn't
just to kill you, but there's like this music, supernatural
folklore going on in the background. This the meat of

(19:29):
this movie is a lot well even there's so much
going on.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
The evil in this movie, and the evil and demon
Knight is attracted to you know, the good element that's
there where it's like, you know, you have this ying
Yang sort of idea of like good and evil are
locked in this eternal battle, you know, where it's like
they can never really be free of each other. They
don't necessarily even want to be, but like, you know,
it's this thing where they just have to deal with it.
You know, it's just a fact of life where it's

(19:54):
like you can have this beautiful gift or this beautiful
you know, ability, but but it means that the devil's going.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
To be chasing you.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Well, okay, So with that the plot Real Fast is
just stolen from IMDb because it didn't have any time.
Trying to leave their troubled lives behind, twin brothers returned
to their Mississippi hometown to start again, only to discover
that an even greater evil is waiting to welcome them back.
Ump bump, bumb I'm not gonna lie. Like Besides, when
they had their hats on, I had a really hard

(20:24):
time knowing who was smoking stack. But I think that
Michael B. Jordan did a really good job while on
screen with himself being two different characters. So I just
wanted to applaud him for that, but I can't remember
who Smoke or Stack is throughout.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Like once once things are I feel like it definitely
helps on a second viewing, you know, because once you
know where each character is like headed, it's like, okay,
I could sort of see a little bit of the
seeds being laid here in terms of where they're going.
But also, you know, Coogler and Jordan do a smart
thing where like they early in the film, they split
off where you know, Smoke goes off to do one

(20:58):
thing and Stack goes off to do another. And like
you were saying, Ash too, is that Jordan does delineate
his performances in the sense that Smoke is much more
business minded and you know, kind of no nonsense, and
Stack is much more you know, freewheeling, kind of you know, seductive,
kind of you know everybody's pal sort of thing where

(21:22):
he's like, he's much more like, you know, improvisational.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
So Stack the one who was with Mary, who was
with Haley. Okay, yeah, if I define with the woman
that they're with, that makes it a little easier because
when I say it was the hats, I.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Was like I wanted to say too with the opening
shot of them are opening, well, the earliest shot of
them with they're sharing a cigarette and they're wearing, you know,
their different colored hats. It just made me think of
Mario Brothers.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Oh my god, that's so funny. Well, I'm looking at them.
I'm like, because I didn't know that there was that
they were twins, because I didn't read anything about them.
I was like, yeah, I was like, oh, wow, that
guy looks Wait, they both look like Michael petro Oh,
I know what's going on here? You're Robert de niroing
and me in that one movie. I was like, damn,
because yeah, but I liked how many surprises there were.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
I don't know, there's a lot in any very fact
that like choosing to make you know, making that choice
of casting Michael B. Jordan as two different people is
just so thematically resonant with the rest of the movie
and what it's trying to say in terms of the
like I was just saying the yin and yang of
you know, good and evil, where it's like it's two
sides of the same coin. It's you know, these people

(22:28):
that have a mirror, you know, where it's like we're
not so different that it's like here's ultimate good and
here's ultimate bad, and like, never the Twaine she'll meet.
It's kind of like we're you know, we're right in them.
We're all sinners, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, so to speak, well, what I did like about
these two characters, like is they're very well known in town,
not to be messed with. But it also seemed like
they were good guys too. They weren't like doing the
bad things, even though there was talk of them running
to Chicago and working with Capone and you know, like
we said that even that would have been an interesting storyline.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Seene with Smoke deliberately shooting these buddies of his, one
in the ass and one in the leg, you know,
and it's just he's very businesslike about it. He's not
he's not sadistic. It's not he's not doing it to
cause them pain. He's doing it because like if if
you guys get away and you yell and crow about,
oh we almost robbed you know, the Smokestack Twins, it's

(23:20):
going to cause problems for us. So we're just I'm
just doing this to help our reputation. No personal feelings involved,
you know, it's just it's very like, and it's funny
that uh gelung geesh, Lee June Lee sorry. Lee June
Lee's character Grace calls that out to Smoke later on
in the movie, where it's like, hey, you shot somebody

(23:42):
in the ass deliberately and shot somebody in the leg
deliberately earlier today, Like you know, that's kind of the
person you are, and Smoke doesn't quite you know, acknowledge
that in himself until later.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
So yeah, it's all about you know, the nuance of
good and evil and and you know, um, sometimes doing
evil to do good, but doing good to do evil
sort of thing. And yeah, it's a very entertainingly messy
moral you know, murkiness.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
That's fun.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah it. Well, then you throw the white supremacy stuff
in there, Like I loved that opening with that guy
because they knew who he was, whether he's like there's
no clan around here. Yeah. So they buy this old
mill that they're going to open that night, literally that night,
for a juke joint. And so the first half, you know,

(24:30):
first I don't know hour of this two and a
half hour movie is them running around town getting people
together to help them open the juke joint and honestly,
it's just really good. Like there's comedy sprinkled throughout this
that's really good. I don't know, I don't know. I
just think everyone's just having a really good time in
the beginning, which when you know, like something horrific is
going to happen, but that story building, you cared about

(24:53):
every single one of these characters, from you know, Mary
who we met for five seconds, to Cornbread who we
met in the field, which that interaction was hilarious. He
was being so disrespectful and then his wife is like,
shut up, get in there and get that money.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah, and even even Smoking and Stack's
relationship to the Chinese family Grayson and bo Chow, yeah,
you know, and how obviously friendly they are but also
like business like. And you know, there's a real sense
in this movie of community, which I think is part
of what you're describing too, and that's really coming through

(25:29):
the first act or first half of the movie, where
you know, not to compare, because I don't think it's
a direct comparison, but it does kind of vaguely remind
me of another blues movie called The Blues Brothers, where
Stroke and Stacker getting the band back together. You know,
they're going around and like collecting their friends and collecting
their old colleagues and being like we're putting on a show.

(25:50):
It's happening tonight no matter what, and like you're all involved,
you're all gonna come and you're all gonna have a
great time, you know, and and you know, until the
vampires show up.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
That's true, which is interesting, like the vampire stuff. I guess,
just this whole you know, we have like dialogue over
the beginning of the movie trying to kind of explain
the power of certain people who can play this kind
of music, and Sammy's one of them. I'm trying to, like, I.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
We should say it Sammy Preacher boy Moore. He's played
by Miles.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Kayden, who's amazing, just amazing, and you know, not only
an actor, but obviously a real musician, and his his
ability as a musician and also his singing voice is
just so rich. And he's all over the soundtrack, of course,
as he should be. And some people have been enjoying
describing this movie as a musical. It's not quite true

(26:43):
in the sense that this isn't a musical where like
people break into song to like convey information like a
musical would be right, but it is a musical in
the sense that there's long musical numbers in it where
people are playing music and yeah, it's so great to
have there because he's just a great musician.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Well, and then that's that's kind of like they were saying,
the vampire is attracted to him because the story is
that music can transcend space and time, and like you
can have a spiritual connection with music to your ancestors
and also to the future. And the main vamp says,
you know, it's Sammy's music that lured him there, so
he decided, you know, say, well that has a lot

(27:22):
to do with what Sammy decides to do at the end,
not China to do ahead so hard, But like that,
I would have they explained it a little bit, but
I would have liked a little bit more information about
that vampire, like I guess with the Irish. Loved that,
by the way, the Irish stuff, the Irish scene where
he has everybody doing like this Irish jig. You guess

(27:42):
he's old. But I just would have liked one like
I'm three thousand years old or something like anything, like
tell me a little bit more about this vampire, because
what the vampire was doing is offering everybody a much
better life, which is really it's very heavy. It's this
white guy being like, listen, you know, you black folk
are never going to make it here. That white guy
who sold you this place. I killed these idiots up

(28:04):
the street and their clans members, and they were all
going to come kill all of you. So why don't
you just join with me. We all have a life
and a family together and we'll stop people like this.
And you're like, holy shit, that's very confusing.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah it is, and again it's all part of the
moral murkiness of the movie where there's no one in
the film who's.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Like wholly good nor holy evil.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
And even the vampire and his his name is Remick,
by the way the unplays, you know, he has an
understandability to him. He's not I'm not going to go
so far as to say sympathetic. You know, he's not
necessarily like the nicest dude. And this isn't like an
Anna Riis type of vampire character where like, you know,
they're very like tortured souls who you know are just

(28:46):
so misunderstood sort of thing. But it's not one hundred
and eighty degrees away from that either, you know, because
this does feel like a genuine character. It doesn't feel
like just the representation of evil or the devil or
whatever in the way that you know, like Billy Zaye
and Demon Knight does. Billysean is clearly evil and he's
just loving you being evil, whereas remiic and this is

(29:08):
you know, he really believes his his his rhetoric that
he's preaching, where it's like, you know, my way is
obviously the better way, like you know, and I love that.
It's also similar in its seductiveness to not so much
invasion of the body Snatchers, because the body Snatchers is
very very deliberately like inhuman you know, where it's like
we're going to take away all emotion from you guys,

(29:29):
it's going to be better. I think it's a little
bit closer to something like the faculty even you know,
where that feature is offering you know, harmony in a
way that you know equates everybody, you know, so it
doesn't matter if you're an outcast, if you're different, if
you talk a different color, if you've got a different vibe,
if you you know, whatever problems you might have like
just join the collective and like we'll all be one family.

(29:50):
It's gonna be great sort of thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, I mean, and in a time like in Jim Crow, Mississippi,
that is kind of the story that I was saying
would have been pretty cool that we came up with.
Is it didn't make sense for me that the that
the Grand Wizard and his people would come attack in
the morning when the place was closed. You would think
that if they were going to get everybody, they would

(30:14):
get them at night. And I kind of wanted them
to be like coming to get them, but then the
vampires were just picking them off and being like, look,
you know, we're killing the guys who were coming to
kill you. Why don't you just let us in? I
thought that would have been fun.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
I did read though, that somebody, a colleague of mine,
was reporting that in their research, the Klan traditionally did
not do attacks like that at night because of black
folks's skin, because they would be too easy to lose
in the darkness, and you know, they wouldn't be able
to find them, so they waited. You typically waited until

(30:48):
the daylight hours so that they could see them clearly
and all that stuff, you know, yeah, terrible, But.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Then there was the speaking going from the Irish part
to like the main scene I think in this entire
movie is the music part where Sammy, you know, Samy's
the gateway to everything that's happening, and then he starts
playing this music and it's playing all of a sudden,
different genres of music from the future and the past
being intertwined together with these amazing scenes, even like bringing
in Chinese, Chinese references from their culture and like talk

(31:20):
about transcending, and it was all just you know, from
you know, African music all the way to DJ's and
people talking, and it was it was seamless and something
like that could feel kind of corny, I feel like
if done any other way or like what's happening, But
I thought that that was not only one of the
coolest things I've seen in a movie in a while,

(31:41):
but it was seamlessly done. It was perfect, The sound
quality was beautiful. It was just a really well all
around well done seen.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I think you hit the nail on the head in
terms of it. That's a scene that's a moment that
ultimately in lesser hands and unlesser not just Coogler's hands,
but also the dp's hands Autumn as well as composer
Ludwig grantson.

Speaker 5 (32:03):
My Boy his wife wife, Like everybody involved in that
scene had to be on the same page, had to
be doing the same thing, because ultimately, just the wrong
note literally or figuratively, like it falls apart because yeah,
what a crazy idea, what a kooky notion and.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Serena, I'm sorry, his wife is Serena continue?

Speaker 2 (32:23):
And yeah, you could just you can tell that like
somebody who was not with it and the way the
Coogler and all of his collaborators are would present that moment,
it would just be like this huge eye roll of
a groaner, you know, where it's kind of like, oh,
look all the fans usters are around, Well that's stupid,
you know sort of thing. And instead, like you said,
like everybody to a person, I've not spoken to a

(32:45):
single person, even people that didn't quite vibe with the
whole movie that hasn't responded to that scene, you know,
or it's everybody sees that scene they go, Wow, what
a moment, you know, and it's it's just undeniable, which
is shocking in this day and age to have such
a consensus.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Well, I'm so glad that he and Ludwig have this
thing where they like Ludwig just really understands everything that
he's trying to do. And it's like you have this little,
you know, white German guy making African music for Black
Panther and for Wakanda Forever and for this like just
immert him and Serena immersing themselves in oh Swedish sorry

(33:24):
in uh, you know, southern black music and it has
to be handled with care and like expert consultations, and
they really brought out tons of people to help them
do this. They recorded it in an old church in
New Orleans and a lot of stuff live in you know,
while they were filming to get that feeling going. And
it's just really really cool. I think I put a

(33:46):
quote from her saying, I feel like a Stewart with
this project, especially with the music. I just feel like
it has its life of its own and it's just
guiding us. And it's like, yeah, it probably did, it
probably got Like that's an interesting part of the job.
Music to me, and the film is everything. And yeah,
the music was so different throughout the whole movie, like

(34:09):
that was very noticeable. And it was cool.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
I was lucky enough to interview Ludwig for Oppenheimer a
couple of years ago for the site, and.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
He's you know, I think one of the interesting things.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
I don't want to you know, obviously blow too much
smoke up any once, but but I feel like he's
warranted because he just continues to knock everything he does
out of the park. And it feels like in the
interactions that I've had with the few artists that I
would consider, you know, close to genius, and I think
he is one. They are very unassuming as people. You know,

(34:43):
they're they're not typically they're not the divas, they're not
the pretentious, you know, know it all's. They are sort
of you know, shrug shoulders, like lackadaysical, like hey, man,
I just tried this, and I did this and I
did that, and it's sort of like, yeah, dude, but
how how do you do that?

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Man? Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like why does
your brain work?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Man, because like nobody else is doing the way that
you're doing it, and like you're one of the rare
people that can do this and this and that, and yeah,
I think it's just because of his deep knowledge of
so much musically, both you know, culturally and theoretically, and
obviously his wife as well, and the two of them

(35:21):
together as a unit, and I guess, yeah, it's just
the way that they work and the way they work
with Coogler obviously, who I think has his own Googler
has his own obvious you know, deep well of knowledge
about culture and whatnot. So yeah, you put them together
and you get stuff like this, you know, which is
just magical.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, we were a little torn in this house about
how much each of us liked this movie, because I
really liked it, and Can really was into the first
half and then it fell off in a couple places
for him and the second half, and I will say, like,
there are some things that I'm like, oh, I wish
you know, there's a little story stuff, because I mean,
we're here to critique. But there was a few like

(36:02):
a point where I was like, oh, I wish that,
you know, we had stayed in the house a little longer,
you know, missus child just being like come on in.
I was like, oh, it's always got to be one
of them. But the problem was there was five of
them left at that point, and there was like twenty
five thirty vampires outside, So that would have been a
really like that would have gone a lot faster because
we were not going balls to the walls end of

(36:24):
dust hole. Don At that point, I thought it would
have been really cool if Mary, after she had turned
and you know, she bit Stack, if when she was
running out, she had gotten a couple more people in
there and they would have died and nobody would have
known to you know, take the bodies out yet, and
we would have had to deal with like internal vampires

(36:44):
kind of being in the house. But I did, like,
you know, it was very eaves by you for Annie
to be like, I know exactly what the fuck is
going on here. These are fucking vampires. Get them out
and don't let anybody in who can't walk through that
door by themselves.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah, And I looked so great till too that Anie
is thinking that they might be haints, you know, which
is a different type of creature which you know, just
swaps itself with the soul of another person, but isn't
necessarily a vampire, where like, you know, they're not feeding
on people. It's just more like you know, a changeling
idea or a replacement sort of idea and even just

(37:19):
that little bit of exposition or world building is cool
to me.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
It gives it a different texture. Yeah, I totally see.
You know, I get people.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Their criticisms of and this isn't the first I've heard
that people are like, oh, the second half, what happened
there sort of thing?

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay, that's kind of I was like, is that what
I've only heard people be? Like? It's really good, and
I mean.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's not huge, but like, if people are not vibing
with it, it's usually that they bring up, you know,
And I think the reason for that might be because
the movie really isn't interested in the standard rhythms of
a genre picture, where it's like you have set up
and payoff and you know, you have this moment in
that moment, in this moment, even though it's sticking really

(38:02):
darn close to like the mythology of vampires in general,
like you know, still have garlic, you still have silver,
you still have they drink blood, their fangs come out,
you know, Yeah, they have globy eyes.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
The red eyes were a bit much at the end.
I liked in the beginning how subtle they were. It
was like a muted red but then by the end
we were going full on. There was a little you know,
me and my CGI.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, well, did you research how they did that? Because
almost the first couple of times I saw it, I
was like, is that like a lightning effect? Like they
just shine a light?

Speaker 1 (38:31):
No, like that's what I liked. It almost looked like
a gray red. It was really cool and it was subtle,
but then at the end it was just like mirror,
you know, like there and a lot of like, I
don't know, fire, I know, you can't do fire. The
only thing that I didn't mind being CGI in that
entire movie was the snake Oh yeah, okay, we don't
need to kill any snakes. I was like, cool. Then
I was like, oh, everybody's got a little bit of

(38:52):
blood CGI, and they're not Logan, come on Ryan, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
But anyway, just to finish the thought, I think that, yeah,
I think that it doesn't have the like you were saying,
dust Till Dawn even has that where like once dust
Till Dawn switches gears into vampire movie, it's strictly a
vampire movie. Like right, all the earlier stuff is kind
of dropped, you know, right, whereas this movie really tries
to keep it of a piece, and you know, I
really feel like the ending of this movie is absolutely

(39:19):
of a piece with the first half, you know where,
It's like it feels like that's where that movie was
gonna go as opposed to like so the vampire stuff
almost feels like its own tangent, you know where, technically
this is a vampire movie, but like you could actually
you could actually sell it to somebody who isn't into
vampire movies as not. You know, you could say, hey,
I know you don't like vampire movies, so maybe you

(39:41):
should still see it because there's so much else going
on that, like, you know, you can still get something
out of it. So I think, yeah, I think the
the that people might be having a trouble with the
second half because of that maybe maybe.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
I don't know. I just thought even the way that
they book ended it was really good because we have
the beginning with Preacher Boy come into his father's church.
His bloody's got slashes on his face, he as half
of a guitar, and you know, his dad's like put
down the devil's music, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
And then we jump back one day and you're like,
oh shit, and then you know, you find out that

(40:15):
he's Stack and spokes cousins, and you're like, oh no,
this is going to be a whole sad family affair,
because it almost had like Salem's Lots vibes where you're
just like, oh shit. Nobody gets out of this except
for the two the younger and the older guy, even
like the girlfriends. And that was very, very sad. But
the second Annie was like, if I get bit, I

(40:35):
need you to kill me, which I mean every time
somebody says that in a vampire movie, it's happening to you.
So I had already prepared myself for that, which was
a very sad scene. And but what was more interesting
was the vampires were so sold on this coven, not
Covid like cult idea that they had with themselves. It

(40:56):
was very different from what we've seen. You know, new
vampires are supposed to be crazy, blood driven, you know,
kind of just rip you apart, uncontrollable. But Mary was
so upset that he killed Annie because she wanted everybody
to just come be vampires and live this very happy
new life that she's found, and she didn't believe that
he would ever do that and kill Annie even.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Tell much about the characterizations of the vampires in this movie,
which is, you know, there's this debate that goes on
between the characters in the movie of like, hey, you know,
the real Stack, the human Stack, would never act this way,
like you know, you're totally evil. Now you're totally a vampire.
And you know, Stack comes back with this notion of like, no, hey, dude,
I'm still me, Like this is me, yeah, and like
this is what I'm saying now. And I love the

(41:40):
idea that these vampires, at least in their minds, think
that they have become enlightened, you know, that they.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Know everything, but they know maybe they.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Did, maybe they maybe they did.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
And like it totally tracks with Mary's character of her
being upset about that moment because you know, we learned
earlier in the movie that she just lost her mother
and that's why she was in town, and you know,
she's very distressed by that. The vampires when they first
meet her, call her out on that where it's like, hey,
you have this sadness that money can't fix you, Like you, yeah,
you just need community, girl, you need like you know
you yeah, family back, and we're going to give it

(42:12):
to you.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
And in a way they do.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Her grandfather was black, so she's it was kind of
what's that movie passing? She was living that life where
she was married to a rich white guy even though
she's in love with Stack, and Stack loved her but
sent her off and broke her heart so she wouldn't
get hurt or they wouldn't get chased out of town
or killed because it is nineteen thirty two in Mississippi,

(42:35):
so he was doing it to save her and then
it just ended up, you know, well where it ended
for them was actually pretty good, but we'll get there.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, And that's.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Why I'm like, I'm always like down to be turned
into a.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Vampire, you know, and again like just to yeah, to
finish the thought, Like the the idea of vampires in
this movie, it's not so cut and dried as like, oh,
these are clearly evil things, and it's not Salem's Lot,
you know, where it's like Sam's Lot is very much
like this is the devil itself, Like there is no
coming back from this, Like you are not yourself anymore,
no matter how much you might say you are, and like,

(43:08):
you know, this thing is evil and once it consumes you,
it consumes you forever, and like you just have to
fight it and defeed it and get away from it
because there is no nuance here, Like it is just
pure evil, whereas this Sinners is you know, conception of
the vampire. It's not, you know, it's like almost an
extension of humanity, where it's like, yeah, they're they're a
different kind of creature.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
They are technically evil, but.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Like there's still enough of a I don't want to
say soul, but you know, there's still enough of a
humanness to them that you can't easily dismiss them as like, Okay,
now they're a vampire. You just can't can't talk to
them ever. Again, it's sort of like you know there's
something there still, you know, which is compellingly unsettling, you know,
where it's you know, who is right, who is wrong?

Speaker 3 (43:49):
We're not sure.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
We didn't talk about I guess the character was Parlene
oh Pearline. Stunning, stunning actress. I don't I don't think
I've seen her in anything, but she was.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
She was noticeable and beautiful in The Batman and the
subsequent HBO series The Penguin Oh.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
That's why she looks so familiar.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
Okay, So I have seen her, loved her performance, loved
like watching her come out of her shell as that
character until she's like singing that song, which was like
my second favorite song.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Part of that when they were doing the stomp stomp
stomp before everything went really bad. Also married and just
having a great time. I like like the sexuality was
in this movie was interesting because it wasn't overboard. It
was more adult and talked about and insinuated, and I
thought it was done very tastefully. Also, I just want
to like call out I know it. I don't know.
I don't care how anyone feels about it. I loved

(44:41):
seeing hot jacked Michael B. Jordan with that with a beautiful,
thick woman. You don't see that. That is never something
that's usually on film unless they're making a joke or
something out of it or you know whatever. That was
awesome to see. I loved it, and I thought their
chemistry was So that's what I'm saying them for Mulder

(45:01):
and Scully because I really enjoyed them together that couple,
and they had lost a child together and you could
just feel all the emotions with them, it didn't feel fake.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
I'm sure too.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
And this is just coming from a male point of
view that, uh, maybe Coogler or maybe Jordan himself, one
of them or both of them perhaps were like, you
know what if I play both roles, I get two
love interests.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
In this movie too hot.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
So I'm sure that was the selling point for him
as well.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yeah, that's so funny.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
It's like, not only do you get to play two
sides of the same coin and one gets to be
a vampire, one gets to not be a vampire.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
But then yeah, and then she gets Pralline gets it,
Praleene Proline gets it, and that was that. I was like, oh,
this is very Salem's lot because you think that you
know that she's gonna make it. She's like the tough girl,
and then they get her and I was like, oh no,
oh no, and then she turns. I was confused with
the rules towards the end with the vampires, because there

(45:58):
was talk of like, oh, what if we kill the Master,
will everybody turn right into vampires? And it seemed like
when he was getting hurt, they were getting hurt.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Well they did, Yeah, they did kind of fudge that
a little bit. I think that the rule is that
there is a connection. That's why he's able to sort
of remic, is able to dictate you know, his interests
and his philosophy to you know, because when he turned
Charles Manson, Yeah, Charles Manson them, Because that's another great comparison,
because like I really did feel strong Manson family or

(46:27):
like hippie cult vibes from the vampires.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Especially the Irish part where they're out doing their dance. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
But I definitely feel that the rule, so to speak,
is that whichever is the lead or head vampire you know,
in town, in reigning, and in this case it happens
to be Remick until he's defeated, you know, they get
to sort of dictate the general vibe, you know, of
what everybody, all the other vampires are doing. So although
he doesn't have like legitimate puppet control of them necessarily, like,

(46:55):
it's still like, you know, kind of a hive mind
in a way that the cult is, you know, or
or a way that a religion is.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
I think religion might be a more apt to comparison
given Sammy's you know history and background and you know,
connection to his father and so yeah, I think that
they were all experiencing his pain, you know, because like
he's dying. And then but it wasn't like his dying
that killed them all. It was that they were still
all stuck in the sunlight.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
That Yeah, that's that's what I got, because I guess
a lot of them did die. But even when he
hit him with the guitar, which was a travesty that
guitar was done in the beautiful the silver part was
cut in his face, everybody was like, ah too.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
I'm like wow, wait wait yeah, sort of like a telepathy,
like he has shared pains.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Interesting. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, interesting in a way.
And I'm like, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (47:41):
You know?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
And then there was like fire tornado and I was like, okay,
so how old is this vampire? Because it was cool
when he got all weird looking and his nails were
super long, but he was still like, instead of just
killing him or biting him, which would have been the
faster thing to do to turn him, he wanted Sammy
to want to be a vampire. And I was like,
you needy bitch, like god vampires, so you would need

(48:03):
to tell me you want to be a vampire and
make music for me forever. You bring my all and
my ancestors back and he's like, no, it was very funny,
which is why I thought that you know him coming
back at the end. You obviously now we know everything
that happened, and it's a very different scene than when
we get there in the beginning, and his dad's like,
drop that guitar, leave the devil, leave the music, I

(48:24):
told you, and Sammy decides not to do it. He's
not going to give up his music. He leaves the
plantation and he creates a better life for himself being
a music man in the big city, and he does
very well for himself. And in that moment, he could
have done what his cousins told me to do. Done
with his father said is stay you know, don't go
out there. It's a big scary world for black people everywhere.

(48:46):
Like you think Chicago's good because they say it on TV,
it's not. It's still the same stay home, stay safe.
And even after everything that happened, and then all knowing
that there's vampires out there, he still chose to get
in that car and leave on his own. And I
was like, I.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Would too, Yeah, yeah, I would too well, And that
really strikes it. That for me is the key moment
that explains the overarching message or subtext of the movie,
which is that ultimately, Sinners as a movie is a
movie about art and artistry and being an artist and
the life of being an artist and the sacrifices one
has to make willingly, not just you know, in terms

(49:24):
of obvious sacrifices like money or time or friendships or
relationships or anything like that, like literal just you know,
your soul where it's like, you know, you have this calling,
you have this belief about yourself, about your abilities, where
you know, if it's really deep within you, it's not
just oh I want to be famous or oh I
want to be popular, but like this need to make
the music or make you know, art, make movies, make TV,

(49:47):
make you know, literature or whatever. Then it's going to
be something that's going to be the the albatross on
your back for your entire life. You know, it's going
to be taking from you as much as it's giving
to you, you know. And yeah, I love the idea
that Coogler presents art as something that is both a
good and a bad thing. You know, it's it it
does you know, you know, when you compare to a

(50:10):
life of piety, as a preacher is trying to to
you know, as Sammy's father is trying to preach, it
is sinful. You know, it is something that you're rejecting.
You know, this idea of that religion preaches of like
community above all or you know, charity above all, and
you know, and somebody being very diminishing themselves in order

(50:30):
to you know, serve the Lord or whoever. So yeah,
and you know, on paper like it is being an
artist is almost like purely sinful act where it's like
it's almost it seems almost purely egotistical or you know,
self serving or something like that. But then of course
you get our favorite scene that we discussed, which you know,
proves that art can give back so much and and

(50:52):
can really bring people together. It can really give so
much life and future and hope to people that you
never meet, you know, and people that you never know.
And and I love that the vampires are presented not
just as you know, the vampires you know, have their own.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Thoughts about what art should be.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
So that's and that's why I think it's it's such
a clever trick to make them not only white, but Irish.
But like because it's not like the vampires can be
instantly dismissed as like, oh, they don't know what art is.
They're not the body snatchers. As I was saying earlier.
It's not like, you know, let's get rid of all
human emotion, let's get rid of this, and let's get
rid of that. It's more it's like the distinction between

(51:33):
you know, an artur filmmaker or an artur musician versus
like a corporate musician, where the vampires at the corporation
where it's like, actually, we've we've done the research and
it feels like most people enjoy the Irish jig. They
don't like the blues so much. So we're gonna do
more Irish jigs than blues, you know. And and it's
this thing where, you know, there's there's the struggle that

(51:56):
you're constantly in as an artist where it's like you
want to make the music that you want to make,
you want to do the stuff that you want to do,
but you have to compromise all the time with people
that control the money or you know, control the distribution whatever.
And recently there has been in the news how Coogler
did a deal for this movie where the right the
rights for this movie are going to revert to him
after twenty five years. And Wonder Brothers was super pissed

(52:18):
about that, but they couldn't do anything because the only
we would only get the movie if they made the
deal with Coogler. And this is the same kind of
deal that Quentin Tarantino made for Once upon a Time
in Hollywood, by the way, and uh yeah, So it's
becoming a bit of a buzz, you know, because of
how successful Sinners is. But it just goes to show you, like,
that's absolutely cool on Coogler's mind making this movie where

(52:40):
it's like, no, I I want to control my own art,
but also I want to own it, you know too.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
You know, I thought one of the interesting lines was
white people like the blues just fine, but not the
people who make it. And it was just so you know,
real line. I know, Oh my god, there's a lot
going on. But he he was. He was just from
like the introduction of him and how fun that little

(53:04):
scene was and how he's like, I've had this job.
It's going to be there for it's been there for
ten years and it's going to be there for the
next ten years, and your place might only be there
for one day. Why would I risk everything? And he's
like one day, yeah, and he doesn't make it. But yeah,
I mean, just like, huh, the whole part was so funny,
and he was he always is such a standout in

(53:27):
anything that he's in.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yeah, and yeah, Delta Slim is his character. And that
monologue you just referenced is such a great moment where
they're driving in the car past the plantations and he's
just recounting this you know, old experience he had with
a couple of buddies of his where, you know, in
in pursuing the music that they love, in getting to
perform it for a crowd, you know, and getting paid well,

(53:49):
you know for that for that performance, they still ran
into trouble. You know, they still couldn't escape the consequences.
And yeah, So I love this this idea that you know,
art is something that is not wholly holy hol y,
you know, it's it's it's something that's nuanced and messy
and compromised. And yeah, and also the fact that you know,

(54:15):
let's talk about this now, because I know that both
of us wanted to talk about it this idea of
the history of blues music and the mythology of blues music,
and how much this movie is connecting itself to that
and embracing it in a really honest way, because a
lot of blues music mythology is where we get so

(54:37):
many of these I don't know what to call them,
like fausty and parables that we've had throughout, you know,
a history of like whether you're talking about Phantom of
the Paradise or The Apple or any episode of VH
one Behind the Music right where it's like the narrative
that we've all come to understand inherently about the music

(55:00):
industry is like, you know, there's these awesome person or people.
They they're so pure in their talent, whether it's Michael
Jackson or you know, I don't know, justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Anyone,
almost Kesha, where it's like they start this way, they're
so pure, they're so great, and then it happens, Yeah, yeah,
something happens, you know, where it's like they have to
do this thing, or they get too famous, or they

(55:22):
get too hooked on a substance or whatever, and then
things go down, you know, sort of stuff and we
all kind of internalize this narrative as like, oh, yeah,
that's what happens with music, or that's what happens with
artists or whatever. But it kind of all starts with,
you know, the roots of so much of this music
and its mythology. And do you want to talk about
Robert Johnson Nash and the history of the Crossroads.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Oh yeah, that's funny. I was like, what, oh, I
was he's the director.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Right, and Robert Johnson the blues musician, Robert Lee Roy Johnson.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
All that the story is about. Okay, sorry, we're talking
about Crossroads now with Ralph Maccio, which is one of
we just found out each other's not favorite but like
way up there movie and that movie really felt like
this movie a lot, and I just thought that it
was really cool for them to, you know, it was
a juke box thing going or what the duke a
duke house thing going on in that where Ralph Macchio

(56:14):
has to play Stevie Stephen Vai, who is like, you know,
the devil's guitarist for their friend Willie's life. And yeah,
it's just it was really interesting. Of course, back in
the eighties are always going to do it with the
white kid and this and that, and then you know,
you have to white savior thing, which is why I
loved what was going on in this one a lot better.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
But yeah, oh no, no problem.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
So Robert Johnson like the actual, real living blues musician,
and that's what Crossroads is partially based on the movie
as well as Sinners kind of alludes to. They never
mentioned him by name, they do mention, uh, another blues
musician who was a kind of a mentor of Robert
Johnson as well, and that was Charlie Patton. Because Smoke

(57:02):
and Stack or either Stack says to Sammy that the
guitar guitar is Charlie Patten's guitar. Turns out it's not.
It's actually their fathers, you know, Sammy's uncles. But you know,
initially Sammy is so you know, possessive or so you know,
chuffed about this guitar because he thinks it's Charlie Patton's guitar,
and Charlie Patton being a mentor figure to people like

(57:25):
Robert Johnson, Leroy Johnson, Billy Brown. Billy Brown's also a
character in Crossroads the movie, but the legend of the
cross yeah, And the legend of the Crossroads, you know,
going back to the early twenties or thirties, is that
supposedly at first it was attributed to I think Leroy Johnson,
and then later it was attributed to Robert Johnson.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
There's no relation there by.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
The way, both blues musicians in the Mississippi Delta, but
no relation. And supposedly one of them went to some
certain crossroads in Mississippi or the South, and at this
place they met whether it was the devil himself or
representative of the devil or demon or whatever, and then

(58:12):
did a deal with them this demon to learn the
mastery of guitar or you know, learn blues music or
get imbued with some sort of special magical extra talent,
and therefore they were then able to go on and
become the famous musician that they became. And this myth,
you know, has continued throughout the centuries or without the years,

(58:34):
but it has been a century I guess, you know,
mutating every time into some different version of like a
battle of music with the devil. So you have something
like the Devil went down to Georgia thes band song. Yeah,
And then of course you have stuff like Tenacious D
making fun of it with Tribute and then TENACIOUSD in
the Picadestiny.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
They would even do it a lot, and like Supernatural,
they would always go to like when one of them
would die. They're like a crossword demon also myself, if
I can get Dean back, really here we go again,
you know.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Even in the Coen Brothers' Old Brother, We're Up thou
hero Johnson is in there too as a character, but yeah, no,
I mean you and I were talking about Walter Hill's
movie of Crossroads, where you know that movie obviously is
deliberately dealing with this myth, and the whole plot is
Ralph Mackieo's character is a student and a fan of
Robert Johnson, and you know, believes that Robert Johnson recorded

(59:23):
a secret song that like only Willie Brown can show him.
And Willie Brown, you know, convinces him to break him
out of the nursing home so they can go back
to Mississippi.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
And like, you know, revisit his roots.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
And it turns out the real reason Willy Brown wants
to go back there is because he wants to get
his soul back from the day from the devil and
that so the guitar battle that we mentioned, But yeah,
there's so many elements Joint. But there's so many elements
of that movie that like, you know, are you know
obviously swirling around blues culture and Delta blues culture, which
you know is all present and centers everything from you know,

(59:54):
the everything from the music itself to duke joints, to
the supernatural element to mojo bags. In bass Roads, they
have a mojo bag that Ralph Machio is given at
the end, and you know that that's a huge plot
point in Centers as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Yeah, it's fun that it it I don't know, it's
such a meld of so many movies, but then it's
also so much its own movie, which is the perfect thing,
I guess, because like if you haven't seen Crossroads, so
you can't make that comparison.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
And it's something that yeah, I think that it just
goes it just goes to show like how much Centers
is Kogler's movie as opposed to like a movie by committee,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Yeah, just to jump back to the scene where Jack
O'Connell's vampire is running in the sun, he's being chased
down by a group of Native Americans, which I thought
is an excellent side plot point. Yet again, another movie
I would like to I would watch a whole movie
on that. Yeah, because they were they found wherever he
was and was chasing him somewhere because it was daytime.

(01:00:59):
It is sunset, it wasn't sunrise. And this guy banged
on this door and these you know, clan people, assholes
were in there, and he's like, ooh, if they weren't
so racist, they might not have gotten killed. Because the
Native Americans even did the right thing. And we're like, hey,
hi there, Hi, Susan, you got something in there that's
probably not really the best thing. You should give them

(01:01:21):
to us and then we'll just be on our way.
They were like, get out here, engines and they're like,
you know what, see you later, good luck, I hope,
hope the best for you. But the sunset and we
got to go. I thought that that was so cool
because of course the racist idiots aren't listening and they
get what they deserve. But I love the side plot
that the Native Americans know what the fuck is going
on and they're like, there's there be vampires. We're trying

(01:01:43):
to stop it. And I loved that it was just
a really cool scene.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
It just it feels like you and I just recently
discussed the Prophecy and how much that movie gets into
Native American supernatural culture, and like, you know, even just
the hint of it here is really welcome. You know,
just another indication that it's similar to our favorite scene,
and this with the all the ancestors showing up and
also the Chinese ancestors as well, because.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
The Chinese characters are there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
I love this idea of yeah, a unified theory of
the supernatural.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
You know, there's there's this aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
It's not just purely Anglo Saxon, white, Caucasian, you know, Protestants, Catholic, whatever,
like it's it's also this It's also that it's all
swirled in there, and that makes it really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Yeah, with the Asian culture too. It was just you know,
but it's kind of like music makes all the evil
come together, which is very interesting part of all of it.
All right, So kind of jumping towards the end, because
this movie I feel like has like three endings. Everybody
gets out, they stop the monster, you know, they kill
the main guy, Michael Michael B. Jordan lives or smoke.

(01:02:49):
I guess we'll go smoke lives. He tells Sammy to
get the hell out of here, and we see finally
what's in this case that they've been talking about throughout
the whole movie, and it is a Tommy like machine
gun and a sniper rifle, and then you remember, oh shit,
there's real stuff happening. The vampire told him that these
people are coming back for him in the morning, and

(01:03:10):
so we heard throughout the thing that they were military.
So he sets his shit up and he starts sniping
these clanned people out, and I just really loved the end.
I thought it was great. It's sad because of course
he gets shot in the process. Then we have this
beautiful scene of him him dying and Annie being you know,

(01:03:31):
she shows up looking stunning in this white dress with
this white, beautiful head piece holding their baby, being like,
you better put that cigarette out and maybe I'll let
you hold the baby, which is amazing, but you know,
he's dying. But then that clan leader, like the Grand Wizard,
who had only taken a shot to his gut, kind
of snaps him out of it, pleading for his life,
and at that point Michael B. Jordan absolutely annihilates this

(01:03:54):
dude with his machine gun. I don't know how many
times he shot him, but it was very satisfying.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Very cathartic.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Yeah, oh my god, I was like, ever get his ass.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Yeah, it's it's almost I mean, it's obviously just a
great moment of continued catharsis after the you know, supposed
main villain of the movie, the Vampire, has been defeated already.
But I could almost see it as like Coogler saying, look,
you know, the vampire victory, the victory over the vampire,

(01:04:29):
that was more of a spiritual victory, you know, it's
more like the rejection of the evil within oneself.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
The victory over the clan is more like a rejection
of pure evil, where it's like, here's the real evil arriving.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
It's this bigotry and hatred and racism that's like worse
than the vampires, you know. Yeah, and it's like this
is the one that we really need to eradicate.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
The vampire itself is more like, you know, we should
shun him, but you know, let's maybe just leave them
to their own devices, but like let's get rid of them,
you know, in a nicer or you know, more sort
of we're going to weed you out, weigh the clans,
like you got to shoot those bastards.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Yeah, you got to kill all of them, every single one.
And he did, he got them. He always said he died.
But you know that's I feel like the a theme
of this is your past will always come back to
bite you in the ass, like no pun intended, but
uh yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
There is a real spirituality to the movie in the
sense that like, and it does feel rooted in Catholicism
or or that element of religion where you know, because
the title is Sinners, and you know, each character is
shown to have their own sinple deeds or ways, which
you know is not necessarily a damning thing or a

(01:05:45):
condemning thing, but it's just it is it just is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Adulteres being committed all over like all over it was. Yeah,
you're like, huh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, And I think that, you know, the point of
the movie in a way is to demonstrate that it
is on a spectrum, you know, and you know, there's
there's the heroism of Smoke and his you know, defeat
of the Klan and obviously defeat of the vampire. But
you know, he has to die the end. He's he's
he's not going to be able to live through it.

(01:06:15):
And I think we can talk about this now, the
contrasting nature of his character having to have that sacrifice
made versus his brother Stack being able to live almost forever. Yeah,
but in a diminished existence. Yeah, and it's not necessarily
like I said, it's not the an Rice tortured, you know,
vampire necessarily. It's not like he's brooding and depressed and like,

(01:06:38):
you know, oh man, I'm stuck in this terrible existence forever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
I'm really sad about it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
But it's more just the it's more facing head on
the just the truth of it, you know, the sense
that like, you know, this is the deal, you know,
the cards I've been dealt, and this is the way
that I've decided to play them, for better or for worse.
And yeah, the epilogue scene with older Sam he played
super cool actual musician blues musicians.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yeah, guy, so well, so that scene set up We
jumped in nineteen ninety two, which is sixty years later,
and Sammy is what appears to be his own nightclub.
Is that what you got from it? Like his own place.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
The name of the place is Pearline's.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Oh I didn't even notice that. Oh I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
It's a nod to how like BB King's place was
named after. Oh shoot, what's the name of his guitar?
Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
I do, but I can't remember the name.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
It's not I'm blindsided by Peerline.

Speaker 5 (01:07:29):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
I want to say Pauline. But Lucille.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
That's it, Lucille like the bat. Yeah. So he's sitting
at the bar and his dorman asks if two people
can be invited in, and without even like thinking, he's like, yeah, sure,
let him in. And you know, oh shit, who walks in?
But you know the twin who lives. So we have Sack,
Sack and Mary, and we'll just cute that they stayed

(01:07:52):
together the whole time. And you know, you're worried as
much as Sammy that maybe they were coming to kill him,
but no, they they actually just kind of wanted to
be like hey and fill in some blanks for him
about that night. And we find out that smoke and stuck.
They couldn't like kill each other, which is very abnormal
for a newly made vampire. So they make a deal
that you know, Sammy's not to be killed, he won't
kill him, and he would let them go. And I

(01:08:14):
love that he kept his promise. And he also propositioned
Sammy because he could smell that Sammy was going to
die soon. And then Sammy had that great line where
he's like, I've seen enough of this place, but I
love that, Like, you know, my favorite was at the
end he was like, until what happened happened? That was

(01:08:35):
the best day of my life? Was it yours? And
and Smoke was like yeah, or Stack was like yeah it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Was, and the Stack says like yeah, because it was
the last time I got to see my brother and
the last time.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
And the sun yeah, And you know, it's is not
Michael B.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Jordan's performance there is so key in the sense that
he's not delivering it with tears in his eyes. He's
not sobbing, he's not you know, he's not so distraught.
It's more just fact to life, like, yeah, it sucks
because that was the peak and I've lived however many years,
sixty years now, I'm gonna probably live another sixty and
you know, maybe beyond that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
He's dressed like fresh Prince dressed.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Like fresh prints and like, I again, like I feel
like that's a connection to Coogler's theme here or subtext
as I mentioned earlier, of art and music in a
sense that like Stack is of the moment, he's of
nineteen ninety two, Like he's right on the you know,
he's got his finger on the pulse of like what's
hip now, like what's you know? But he made some
point he and Mary to visit Sammy to be like, look,

(01:09:31):
you know the real stuff that I still love is
the real which he calls the real of you know,
you just playing your acoustic blues guitar and singing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
You know, I'm sure that we don't get this confirmed
or anything, but you know, given Stack's outfit and all
the money has in his like big stack thing on
his hand, it's reminiscent of like, you know, a hip
hop mogul of nineteen ninety two. So I'm sure Stack
is you know, somehow involved with Deaf Jam Records or something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Yes, she was, even Hailey Steinfeld was kind of dressed
like you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Yeah, yeah, And so I feel like they are you know, yeah,
they're like they're hip to like what's like, you know,
new on MTV, But deep in their souls, they really
still love the old Delta Blues, you know, even if
they can't admit it to them to the rest of
the world.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
You know, yep, that's all they wanted. They're like, play
me a song, here's two hundred bucks and we out,
which was crazy because I was shitting myself too, just
he was like, oh no, yeah, I just said yes.
I thought the scar looked so cool too, like it
was just very interesting, and yeah, I just you wouldn't
think that someone who just went through all of those

(01:10:37):
horrors would choose to leave and go out on their own,
and most horror movies, when that stuff happens, the person
runs into the arms of their preacher. Father. You're so right, daddy.
You know, the world is a big scary place, and
I'm going to stay safe here with you now that
I survive. But no, he was like, this isn't the
life I want, and I'll risk it to go get

(01:11:00):
the things that I want in life, to make money
with my dream and to play music, and that's all
I want. And I thought that that was just a
really cool and that's why I like the extra extra
even though I didn't want to wait through all of
those goddamn credits. I don't love doing that, Marvel, you know,
I'm talking to you for having him just played that
little light of mine. I honestly would have liked if
they were switched the end credits, but I feel like

(01:11:23):
people wouldn't have stayed as long and then would have
missed the whole like them finding him. Yeah, I personally
would have switched them, But I thought that it was
cute and it was just a really well shot scene.
It was very sunny, and you're just like, oh, yeah,
you know this little.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Light of mine and playing it in the church, Yeah,
from his roots. And I think that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
There's something really poignant and beautiful about the nuance of
this movie and what it has to say about art
and artistry and what you were just saying too about
you know, anybody else who had Sammy's experience that night
would have, you know, ran back to the safety of
the church and their home and never left and sort

(01:12:08):
of thing. And it just goes to show you that, yeah,
there's something inherent in the artist's soul where even if
it's something as small as like I grew up in
the Midwest, my entire family is here. No one's ever
moved away, but like I have to go to New
York City, or I have to go to La or
you know, I have to go.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
To wherever where my heart is calling me to go.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
You know, even that is a is a representation of
that leap where it's like, you know, to leave the
safety of the nest. It's scary, yeahh and and to
follow your calling whatever that might be.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
One thing we blew over was the drowoling ground we
were talking about earlier, the drooling vampires. I don't think
i've seen that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Really, like that element where you know, they have vampires
are it's it's it's a very cool visceral element because
obviously it's visual, but it's gross. But like also the
fact that like it just shows how they're hungry. Yeah, yeah,
it's because I mean we talk a lot about vampires
and like you know, you'll even there's the Tony Scott
movie The Hunger, like it's named after that supposed idea,

(01:13:06):
but I feel like we haven't had a visual representation
of that hunger as strong as this yet.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
And it was disgusted, which she's sit in his mouth.
I gagged into my drink I was like, no, I
can watch vampires rip people's throats out, gargle their blood,
spit it out, and do it all over again, but
don't show Oh god, that gooey spit. I would have
gagged if I was him, but he was into it,
so I guess that's great. But it was very He

(01:13:31):
was like, baby, you droll in And I was like, oh, no,
what they're gonna do it then? But yeah, no, those
are the things that make me go gag uh. But
they so they got me, they got me, oh totally.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
It just yeah, there's there's a real similar to how
many different elements there are that there are so nuanced
in this movie that the sexual element is is very
varied in the sense that it's not so explicit as
to be like here's a bunch of naked people and
here's a bunch of boobs or whatever. But and yet
people you know, talk very like maybe the most explicit

(01:14:03):
dialogue that I've heard explicit. Yeah, yeah, and it's it's refreshing,
it's fun.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
It felt like a very adult movie, if that makes sense,
like you know, like not for your kids.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Yeah, and not adult in the way that we've come
to understand adult as being like, oh, it's going to
be rawgy and gross, and everybody's going, yeah, super you know,
we're gonna say the F word a lot of times.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Isn't that crazy? Like yeah, you know, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
So no, it only works when you're Tarantino. I thought
it's funny that the working title for this was called
Grilled Cheese. I just think working titles are hilarious and
they don't ever make any sense. But sure, sure grilled cheese. Yeah,
I guess wrapping it up, the last kind of thing
I have to say is, you know, I read somebody
referring to this as the color purple mix with Fright Night,

(01:14:50):
and I thought that that was a really perfect explanation
for it. You know, but I could add on to
fright Night. You could go dustled on, you can go
you know, demon Knight, demon Knight, just a whole bunch,
And I thought that that was cool.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
No, it's something that a lot of people are finding
a lot of resonance within, and I think that is
just indicative of a great movie, you know, because I
feel like most great movies, when people see them, they'll
have you know, you'll get like two people watching with
the same movie, and you'll get like two completely different
recommendations or comparisons or you know, feelings you know, towards it.
And I think that just goes to show you how

(01:15:30):
nuanced and interesting it is while still being specific, you know,
while still being very much his movie, Googler's movie. You know,
this is not like I said, this is not a
committee movie where it's like, oh, this is clearly meant
to appeal to all different people as many as possible. No,
it's it's very heartfelt, and I think that it's yet
another example of how individualistic, auturistic, heartfelt works of art

(01:15:55):
can be just as if not more so, appealing to
a wide range of people. You know, you don't have
to take a committee, and you don't have to take
a board of shareholders and put them in a room
and see like, okay, what appeals to all of you
and tell us exactly a paper and we'll make that
you know sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Yeah, yeah, uh anything else before recommendations, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
So it's great.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Yeah, it's great. My recommendations I've already said one hundred
times a lot of them. It's demon Night and Crossroads.
Like if you want a more scary a little bit different,
not vampires, more fucked up version of this. Watch Demon Night.
If you want some Ralph Baccio and Jamie Kertz. This
is just freaking crazy. Go see Cross nineteen eighty six

(01:16:39):
is Crossroads.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Yeah, hell yeah, and I will second those and also
throw in from Destill Dawn since we talked about it
so much.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Yeah, structure of it, We're going to cover that at
some point because it is one of my favorite movies
of all time. And yeah, it's just I didn't want
to like keep bringing it up to offend people, because
it's like they're very different movies and they are not
like they they're such strong similarities, but then they're so
different at the same time. You know, Ryan Cooler, I

(01:17:10):
feel like was homaging it in a loving way and
not you know, I'm not saying he's stealing from it,
but I loved seeing reference to a movie that I
just hold so dear to my heart for so long,
even down to the brothers. You know, I feel like
when Michael B. Jordan went to kill or when Smoke
went to kill Stack in the first one, they even

(01:17:32):
said something very similar, like I know, George Clooney's like
I bring you the peace in death that I couldn't
bring you in life, or something like that, and he says,
they said something very similar to the same thing, and
I just I look at Kenn. I was like, that's
lilt on. He goes, are you going to keep doing that?
I was like a sorry, sorry, can you keep talking?
And I leaned over to him and I go, I'm
just going to assume that every movie that we're seeing

(01:17:53):
from now on is a musical. And I'm not complaining
because I love musicals, but I was like, I didn't
expect it. I didn't expect all the songs and how
awesome it was, and yeah, four point five stars, hell.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
Yeah, hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
So uh yeah, go go support original film, go see it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
If it's still out in theaters, it probably should be.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
By the time we released this episode, it should still
be in theaters, So definitely check it out if you
haven't already, and if you have, you know, maybe go
a second time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
Thank you all for joining us for this episode of
Bill and Ashley's part of the Stranded Panda Network. You
can find my work in the show notes links below.
Check us out on social media. You can find this
show at Strandedpanda dot com and everywhere else you get
your podcasts. If you have questions or comments, please feel
free to write to us at Bill and Ashtara Theater
at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
We're dying to hear her. See you your night, Las,

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