Sleepaway Camp

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to another horrifying episode of Bill and Ashley's Terror
Fear on the Marquis. This week is nineteen eighty three
sleep Away Camp. Join us right after we get back
from meeting Angela at the waterfront after the social all
that after these ads we have no control over.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
I'm Ashley Coffin. Joined us always by my co host
and Terror Bill Bria. Bill Darling. How are we today?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
I am doing great, and you know what, Ricky, I'm
eating shit and I am living, Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
I was wondering how quick we were going to get
to that quote and right off the bat, literally during
a baseball game.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
My name's in this movie. I have to do it
pretty quickly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Later in the show, we'll be sharing our genre accompanying
recommendations for our feature film. But first, what have you
read from the Necronomicon of Horror News this week?

Speaker 4 (01:18):
Just a few quick items here.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
One is something that I wanted to bring up just
because I think it's pretty cool and hopefully some of
our listeners will agree, which is that Tom Savigni's nineteen
ninety remake of Night of the Living Dead starring Patricia
Tallman and Tony Todd, the Great Tony Todd will be
celebrating his thirty fifth anniversary with a steal Book four

(01:39):
k Ultra Hda Blu ray release on September twenty third.
Not only is that cool enough by itself, but there's
going to be the uncensored cut for the first time
premiering anywhere, which is Savigni's original vision of this film
that he originally made in nineteen ninety And apparently he
was talking about it on Instagram when the announcement came

(02:01):
earlier this week, and I guess as he was saying,
you know, we're not quite sure what the differences are
between this uncensored cut and the theatrical cut, but I
guess there might be a lot more gore, you know,
because Safeni is known for his special makeup effects. And
apparently it opens in black and white and then changes
to color at some point, whereas the original version was

(02:22):
already all in color.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
So I'm excited to see it.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
This is something, you know, kind of rare, which is
a horror movie from what now thirty plus years ago,
getting new footage release and all that sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
So yeah, that's kind of fun.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
That's fun. I just saw it this year on at
the drive in.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Oh yeah, was at the Mahoning Mahony Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
It was zombie weekend, so it was Night of the
Living Dead.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
They did this one, and then they did Return, not
Return they did. The third movie was the what's the
one where the girl has the glass coming out of.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Her that's a Return of Living Dead three.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah yeah, Return to Living Dead three.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Nice.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
That was just one.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
That's an awesome night.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
And then just because we've been keeping up with, you know,
our major passings of legends this year, I wanted to mention.
Of course, this past week Michael Madson passed away.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'm very upset about that, which.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
Is very sad.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Of course, he you know, was most famous, arguably for
his work with Quentin Tarantino and Reservoir.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
Dogs and Kill Bill.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
They hate the late What's Upon Time in Hollywood, But
I think we can mention him on this show for
some of his genre stuff, such as Scary Movie four.
He was in a movie that I have not seen
called Piranha Conda, Pirana Conda Conda. But the two and
Blood Rain of course, the Uri Bowl, you know, video
game adaptation, but the two that I love the most

(03:42):
are species and species.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Two absolutely species. Yeah, I was an alien from another planet.
I want to get with him too, be my baby daddy.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Right, And you know, I think he should have taken
on for the team for America, for Earth.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
You know, just you know, Michael Madison get out. There
was always something I was always so attracted to him.
That's that like trailer trass that you're just like, oh, yeah,
I like it. He had that sexy, deep, like interesting voice. Yeah,
there was always just something about him. Wasn't as surprised.
I was, like the last couple times I've seen him, like, baby,

(04:18):
take care.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Of yourself, take a little care of yourself.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
But people always forget that his sister is Virginia Madsen
candy Man.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
And you know you were saying you had a crush
on him. I mean I've had the crush on her
for the longest time.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
There's a reason why I kept watching and rewatching the
opening of Lynch's Doune just to see her giant face.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Giant face, like, yes, tell me more about them.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Going to tell you how to watch this movie. Ye,
good looking family. But that's very very sad. I saw
her post about him, which was beautiful and yeah, you'll
be missed. And Tarantino had one more movie coming according
to him, one.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
More according to him, right, well, a build pay tribute
in some way whatever that movie ends up being.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
But that's all from the Ecroonomicon.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
This week, we'll be right back with our feature film
after these mess ups from the grave that we have
no control over. And now it is time for our
feature film. It's summertime, baby, and we're taking you back
to camp.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I have to I have to give you a little
bit of shit here, Ash, because I know that you've
been on us, on me for doing this movie for
the longest time, and especially during the summer, because you
definitely consider this a summer movie. And I get that,
but I know it is really no, it is really
funny to watch the movie. The literal first image is
like the most gorgeous fall colors.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
See it's part of the charm.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
You go to summer camp and fall. The breath everybody's
breath has like.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yep, yep, yep, fun whatever.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, it's funny because it's also like a it's a
you know, like a shot cut of the title screen
where it's like, you know, and it's like it's fall.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
You know, it's very you can miss it.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
See I take that open is everything has already happened,
and it's showing us that the camp is closed.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
I don't know exactly.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
No, that's the thing is like this is that's that
opening is is just the earliest indicator of what an
original movie this is in the sense that we're getting
the epilogue first, you know, and nobody it doesn't. It's
not a showy enough movie to like draw that out
in a in a very like you know, hey, get it, audience,
we're showing you the ending first. You like, it doesn't

(06:24):
have that sort of nudge judge wink wink to it.
But like, the more you watch this movie, even on
a second watch, you'll you'll go, oh, right, oh, that's
what we're seeing because maybe the first time watch you
just sort of seeing it sort of just you know,
washing over. You like, Okay, I don't get their camps closed.
Maybe it's the sun it's fall, you know, maybe it's
just closed for the season sort of thing. But you know,
upon a second watch, you're like, oh no, maybe this

(06:46):
is the aftermath of what of what has happened because
of the events of the rest of the movie.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
So, uh, this is one that I remember my not
my first time watching it, but my first experience with
this was on TV. So I'm I must have been
like seven, I don't know, somewhere around there. I'm not
really really age.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
Was it or was it?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
I think it was like us.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
I used to watch like USA up all night and
Joe Bob did it on T and T in nineteen,
eighteen eight and eighty nine, so I would have been
like old enough to kind of remember it. Because this
there was something interesting about this one, especially if you
saw it as a child on cable TV, where I
was kind of on the killer side a lot.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
You know, like everybody in.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
This film is a pedophile, a pervert, or some kind
of horrific bully, and they all kind of get what
they deserved.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
And as I continued to see this on TV, I.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Was really horribly bullied around the same age as Angela
is in this, so like early middle school. So for
me it was like a good for her kind of story,
you know, watching it younger and seeing someone be able
to get revenge on them was so very cathartic in
a way, and it's something.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
That I do with horror movies.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
It's like, you know, you're having a bad day, I
like to put on thing to watch a bunch of people,
annoying people get like murdered. That's what horror is, you know.
But for me, it really it never scared me. I
was really into it. And then the only thing that
did scare me. And I don't know where this came from,
is you know, obviously the face at the end, Angela's
eyes and the contorted face reminded me of the little

(08:20):
Jesus crucifix at the end of Carrie for some reason,
and I put those two together because that's what always
scared me and Carrie was the little Jesus face.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, But not until I saw this in my late
teens did I finally put together Oh my god, now
I know, like what's going on when I finally rented
it from our video den. And it's kind of like
when you watch Nightmare on Elm Street two for the
first time when you're a little bit older with adult
eyes and you're like, holy shit, I had no idea
what I was really watching, and I still, you know,

(08:50):
I liked it.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, I don't have a history of this movie as
Ashley famously knows if for whatever reason skipped me. I
never saw it on television. I never had a friend
who super into it growing up, so no one showed
it to me on disc or you know, on a
VHS or anything like that. I don't remember when it
was I first heard of it, because this has been
for the longest time one of those movies that as

(09:12):
a you know, centiphile, as a as a critic whatever,
like I knew of and it was absolutely about, of course,
the ending. And so this is one of those movies
like uh, you know, you name it, usual Suspects other
famously seven, kind of a lot of famous twist movies
were like you know, if you don't happen to see

(09:33):
it early, like it's going to get spoiled for you,
and like you know, you're gonna know going in for
the first time later on. So yeah, So the longest
time I've known about the ending, and I guess it
just because I had that blown for me. It never
there was never that impetus within myself to be like,
oh I got to see this movie, I haven't seen
it yet sort of thing, because it's like, oh, I
know what happens, you know, and it's too bad because

(09:55):
it is really fascinating, it's really well done, it's really
unique and bizarre in its own ways. And I think
what you were just saying, too ash, is that if
you have if you're a person of a certain age,
I have no idea, by the way, like what camp
life is these days. In twenty twenty five, I.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Was sent to camp every summer. That's like, I can't
imagine it's the same.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
It is bad. I gotta imagine it's different.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Somehow, it felt that camp felt very real to the
things that I experienced.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
But I think that, yeah, I think if you're in
a certain generation, like this will speak to you because
chances are you went to some form of this. And like,
let's get the plot out of the way so we
can just okay.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Dive in sleep Away Camp is a cult horror film
centered on shy teenager Angela, who was sent to a
summer camp with her protective cousin Ricky. As the campers
settle in a series of gruesome and mysterious murders begin
to plague the camp. Suspicion mounds among the staff and
the kids as the body count rises, all leading to
a shocking and unforgettable twist ending that redefines everything the

(10:56):
audience thought they knew.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Perfect, it's totally it, so you can set it better
than myself. So I think the thing that overall, the
effect that this movie has is that it has a
certain sort of camp in both senses of the word
surrealism that really does seem to capture the feeling of

(11:19):
what summer camp was like almost at any age, but
certainly at a young age, you know. And obviously there
are a lot of other movies that that come close
to this. You know, this belongs in the pantheon of
you know, clearly this movie in particular was obviously riffing
on Friday the Thirteenth and its popularity. But it's important
to remember that the Friday the thirteenth films, especially those

(11:42):
early ones, although they took place at Camp Crystal Lake,
you never saw any kids. There was no kids, right,
you know, these are just counselors, right.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Well, that's what's so awesome about this movie and sets
it apart, you know, crazy you know ending and story
to the to the side. They're actually using kids to
look like kids, yeah, and talk like kids. And I
know this was filmed in Upstate New York, which I've
gone to camp up there once or twice. So it
looks and you know, camp pit and falls and the
Pocono's not open anymore, but it looks exactly like the

(12:12):
camps that I went to, the one I went to
multiple times. And I have some fun stories to share
with that a little later about some weird things that
you know, not so great things that happen. They're not
like I'll just say it now. I smoked weed for
the first time when I was about the kids like
Angela's like Ricky's age. What the counselors did was they
told everybody that if you wanted to be a part

(12:32):
of something special, to leave your socks out the same
way you would do it in the morning. If you
wanted to do like the polar Bear plunge, which is
you just jumped in the lake when it was freezing.
So a couple of us did, and these three girls
got I can't remember their names older obviously they were
the counselors had us all around and we were and
they were smoking out of like a Native American peace fight.
And it wasn't until I was like, they were like,
you can't talk about it. Nobody's allowed to know about it.

(12:55):
You know, this is our little secret, like the secret society.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
It was really like you felt like you were in
the little cute little group. And it was the last week,
so there wasn't a lot of time to like talk
about it. And it wasn't until I was in, Like
I'm not gonna say when I first, you know, really
smoked weed. I was like, oh, oh my god, that
is what my counselors did.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
That's what we were doing.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, wow, because you don't think anything of it as
a kid, because you're you know, it's all Native American lands,
so there's lots of Native American stuff. You're telling the
stories you hear about their peace pipes and this and that.
So they kind of swung it like that we were
just doing some like Native American magic stuff. No, that
was weed. It was weed and that. Yeah, it's one
of my favorite stories. That's great, but it reminds like
these kids, like, that's what you kids are doing it

(13:39):
you're having sex.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Now.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
I wasn't, but the counselors were sure.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Well that's the thing too, is that I I come from.
I mean, we were saying off Mike beforehand. How around
this age both of us were kind of being bullied
a lot as young people, and a lot of I mean,
I have the whole range, I feel like, because I
had two separate camp experience.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Is.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
My first one was around the time of third or
fourth grade, I don't know, I must have been ten eleven,
twelve around that age. And I don't recall why we
were at camp because it wasn't summer camp as I recall.
It was during the school year, and it was kind
of like an elective almost or something. I don't think,
like you were required to go with the entire class

(14:22):
to this camp, which was somewhere in Michigan, and it
was obviously Native American themed because so many of these
This was like the early nineties, so like you know,
there were still like this holdover from the eighties and
the seventies, probably even the sixties whenever these camps were established,
you know. And I think it was maybe just for
a week or a weekend. It was like a shortened period.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
It wasn't like that full so my mom sent me
away for a month age.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
No, Yeah, fortunately, I've never I never had that experience.
I never had like the literally like you're going away
from home for a long period of time.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Like pots and Pans kit.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
No, my camp experiences were a week at most, but
they were enough. I remember in the third grade, fourth grade, one,
whatever year it was, uh, whatever grade I was in,
there was one of the most traumatic experiences that I
can remember, which was I guess the first time I
was like publicly traumatized where I was in you know,

(15:15):
because the cabins were split up by by gender, and
I was in the boys cabin and we were like
goofing around and laughing one night, and I suppose this
must have been an early onset symptom of you know,
what I would have to deal with later in my
life with my gut issues.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
But I shited my pants.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Uh oh no.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
And this was like the middle of the night.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
You know, it was middle of the night for a kid,
so it's probably like ten to eleven PM. And I
remember my mom was a counselor or, like you know,
I guest like chaperone counselor for the school. So you know,
this was definitely like a you know, not a normal
camp experience with but because you were like away from everybody,
away from like you know, your home and everything. So

(15:53):
it had like that same semblance of of you know,
that weirdness of like everything happening in one little capsule
of space and everything in time. So anyway, I shoot
my pants the light and I realized what had happened.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
And of course this being camp and the way they
was structured similar to Friday the thirteenth. All the bathrooms
were like a separate.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's most camp.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
You get to walk through, yeah, to walk through somebody.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
That's why there's with the shower. I was like, what
the fuck is this?

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah right, yeah, that's they had people. We can't have had
a great like the showers were at all. Right, So
my thought was, Okay, everybody's kind of in bed. The
lights are off in the cabin, like everyone's like some
people are a lot of people are still awake and
they're talking between beds, but you can't they can't see.
It's just like you know, chatter. So I thought, Okay,

(16:41):
I'm gonna sneak out of my bed and then I'm
gonna like sneak off to the bathroom. And because I
had ruined my pajamas whatever, I took them off and
again this is in the dark. So it's like I'm
just gonna run, you know, half naked, over to the
showers or whatever. And at that point, one of the
guys made the proposition like, hey, we should turn the

(17:01):
lights on because I want to show you guys this
cool thing or whatever.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
It was.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Oh no, and I was like I was My My
instinct was to dive under the bunk bed and so
I hid. I was hiding under the bunk beds with
you know, poopy butt and half naked, and then they
turned the lights on. They were looking at whatever cool thing,
and then they were like, huh, where's Bill? And I
don't know. I just instead of like making it worse,

(17:25):
I just said I'm just under here, So like, could
everybody turn off the lights please?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Oh no, Well, you don't know what to do with
that age.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I didn't know what to do with that age, And
so it became like this whole scandal of like, why
is Billy under the bed?

Speaker 4 (17:36):
What are you hiding for?

Speaker 3 (17:37):
And I'd have to say why, and then it's like,
well you do we have to go get your mother
because mom was sleeping in the adult's cabin. It's like
so eventually my mom had to come get up, come
over to the boy's cabin with like a towel or
something and take me out to the outhouse or whatever.
And the thing I'll always remember is there's a kid
named Peter or somebody who this is like third grade,

(18:00):
who once I revealed that I was naked and you know,
in a soiled state under the bed, Peter whoever was like, Hey,
come on out, Billy, it's okay. We're all adults here,
were all or whatever.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
So I'll always remember that.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
And then, you know, years later, when I was in
high school, the thing that I was inducted into as
part of the you know, choir was choir camp instead
of band camp, and we would go up to interlock In,
which was an arts camp in the middle of Michigan,
for like a week before the school year started. So
this would be like late August, you know, mid late August,

(18:38):
and that was its own craziness with all sorts of
hormones and you know, clickiness and craziness. So even though
I never had the exact camp experience, like, I definitely
had enough of one for several years in a row
that watching this movie, it's like, oh yeah, that's very
similar to how it felt, you know.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Well, one thing that got really right was the way
that the boys interacted with each other versus the girls,
like because the guys were like they were like cursing
and he calling each other horrible things, you know, this
and that, but it wasn't actually malicious where the girls
were like you, your Judy and your Meg were horrifically
mean and then it's.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Just like you for no reason.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
I remember watching it with Ken last night. He's like,
what's wrong with that girl? Why is she so angry
at everything? And everybody like what. I was like, I
don't know, man, She's just Judy, you know. But that
there would be like the clicks and the stuff, like
I'm not saying it's easier to deal with girls than
it is guys, but that was very It was like,
oh shit, that's exactly how they were, especially in the

(19:36):
eighties where nobody was really or like early nineties it didn't.
I'm sure they're helicopter counselors now like helicopter parents, but
back then, like grabbing someone, dragging them and throwing them
in the water when they didn't want to go in
would that's something that would happen you know.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Oh, we would do like vile stuff to each other
at choir camp, which was bizarre because we had a
combination of helicoptering and pants off because the counselors in
sleep Boy Camp are obviously like the types who like,
you know, their kids themselves, or like their teenagers or
you know they yeah, right, and so we had a

(20:10):
little bit of that at the choir camp. We also
had you know, the choir director, mister Westerman or whatever,
would insist on every cabin and like his wife would
do the girl's cabins. Every cabin be like spick and
span clean at the beginning of every morning. They would
literally go through with like white gloves and like, you know,
see if there was anything lingering around like dust or
mold or whatever.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
They be watching too much Full Metal Jacket.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
Too much Full Metal Jacket.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
They literally they I would almost say they ran it
like the army, but they kind of didn't because there
was so much time to ourselves that we got up
to bad shit where like each you know cabin or
each like gendered cabin would do like you know, their
own version of like an awards.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
Ceremony at the end.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
But that was like secret that they wrote down on
a piece of paper that like, oops, that got leaked
at the end of the week. You know, the whole
intention was for it to get leaked, so you know,
the boys would rate the girls or something and then
vice versa, you know. So yeah, there would just be
tons of stuff that would be happening.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
So the director this was his first movie, right, and
he also wrote the screenplay, which for a slasher of
this time, I think the screenplay is great.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
It's really funny.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, no, it's really great. And he came out of NYU,
I think, or some film school around that area USC.
Oh okay, but there was a shot on the East Coast.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
This was shot in Camp Algonquin and Argyle, New York
actually during the fall.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
And it's funny because it has such a it has
that classic East Coast feeling to it. You know, this
is this is a movie that visually as well as orally,
with everybody's thick New York accents, you couldn't really shoot
on the West coast.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, and I think they only shot it over what
five weeks in at the end of eighty two, and
then a lot of the like house members were local
to the area, which is why they had their fun
little whatever those were accents.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah yeah, Oh and Hiltick did go to TISH, so
I thought he. I thought he might have gone to
NYU at some point. And he also attended Hostreet University
Law school. So yeah, it's uh, it just it has
that feeling that it does come out of nowhere, but
it also belongs to that tradition of, like I said,
Friday the Thirteenth, but also Meatballs, you know, and other

(22:30):
camp movies that were happening of that time, comedies or whatnot.
But I would consider, you know, this movie maybe even
more than Friday the Thirteenth being a bigger influence on
something like what hot American summer?

Speaker 4 (22:42):
You know?

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean in this, like there's
some pretty funny moments, Like the kids have really funny dialogue,
so I could see how that would the houses look
the same.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
The outfits.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, let's get to the outfits real fast, because that
is my favorite part of this whole thing. These boys
are wearing crop tops that come right up to their nipples,
booty short daisy dukes for days, and it's like and
then the girls all have like shirts up to their neck.
You know, it's very It's it's interesting that the choices
that they made. We have mesh blue tank tops the

(23:16):
main like the older guy who's red shorts.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Oh uh yeah, D'Angelo Ronnie.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Ronnie Ronnie is David bowieing so hard in your face
from Labyrinth like his dick mine as well have a
credit in this movie for how many Not only is
it in my face, it's in every one of the
children's face. Like the scene where he's talking to Angela
about finding food, it's just like she's sitting, he's standing,
and it is just like bulge in her tiny little

(23:43):
thirteen year old face and you're like, whoa, yeah, what
are we doing here?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
It's it's like a hot dog in cerram rap.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
I think if you're a first time you were of
the movie by the time and it's it's not the
first scene, but it's the second major scene in the movie.
By the time Desiree Ghuld shows up as Aunt Martha,
I mean, she looks like she just stepped out of
a John Waters movie.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
You know, like what the fuck was going on with her?

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Even to this day, I'm like, is this the best
performance I've ever seen?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
She is so wild.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
She is such a consummate character in every sense of
the word character being the emphasis there that, yeah, like
it should indicate to you that you're watching a movie
that is not normal, that there's something to it. And
you know, for years, I feel like people are probably
cause again I'm guessing because of how much experience I

(24:30):
don't have with this movie. But I do think that
this for the longest time was seen in a sort
of almost rocky horror way, right of like you know, oh,
it's unintentional camp, like they didn't know what they were doing,
Like it's very silly, the acting's bad or whatever. And
I would disagree because it does feel like a lot

(24:52):
of those choices, whether they work together for you or not,
were deliberate choices.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
It wasn't like they were being made by mistake or something.
You know, like it did feel like you know, and
again I'm just going off Aunt Martha, but like, you know,
that's not a casual performances.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, even even the two kids in the beginning on
the boat, like everybody's being so so extra, you know
that they're fighting over She's.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Like, oh, come on, just let me drive the boat.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
But every word is being said over you know, there's
the overacting, but to a good point, to the point
where you know, there's the horrific accident and then the
girl who is on the skis is like, no.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Sobody help.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
I'm like, how did you get over there? But it's
you know it all. It really sets the tone. And
this is a very interesting movie because you have to
if you're paying attention to the first main scene of
this movie, like really paying attention, you'll get what's going
on with the twist because they do show you, yeah,
they really, they show.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
You right there.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
And I remember being younger and not understanding that we
were seeing, you know, a gay couple on film, which
is very you know, in eighty three it's I guess,
I hate to say brave, but it's like a brave
thing to do. People weren't doing that ship back then,
so it's you know, it's good for.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Well, this is tragic, but yeah, this is a really
great definition of, you know, an independent film in the
sense that I believe that if this was a Friday
the thirteenth situation where it got a negative pick up
from major studio, or if a major studio somehow bought
the script, which I don't think would have happened in
the first place. That never would have you know, stayed

(26:30):
in that would have been cut or changed or something
like that. Because the independence of this movie, you know,
being released through what is it, United Film Distribution Company
and the production company was American Eagle Films. Because of
that status, it really does get to do these things
that I mean you said brave. I mean I think

(26:53):
they were just almost even like unconsidered in the sense
that they weren't censored. They weren't like thought of as like, oh,
we can't do that because X demographic might have a
problem with it or whatever. Like, they just were doing
it because it was in the culture already and they
were just sort of saying what they were wanted to
say with it. It wasn't it wasn't something that this
isn't a movie necessarily that's trying to make a statement,

(27:14):
you know, right, it's that's trying to like say some
sort of progressive thing or even anti progressive thing. It
just it does feel honest in that way. You know,
it feels like you know, this is this is in there,
and that's because these things happen even you know, having
stuff like the Pedophile or even having stuff like the

(27:35):
whatever was going on between the camp owner and Meg, you.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Know, oh my god, it's just so out of nowhere.
I'm like that guy ew and his little.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Date night outfit with the neon pant, green pants and
the yellow zip up.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
I was like, what is but the cook?

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I mean, Dan talk about someone who has the worst
lines like ever written and had to have said in
a movie.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
You just forget how raw it kind of is. I
can't what does he say, young frish chicken. Look at
these young fresh chickens fucking.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
Gross the baldies bah.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
And everybody is just standing around him laughing.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
I'm like, okay, So yet again when he gets it,
which he absolutely deserves, you're like, yeah, boil his ass,
boil his face and eyes out. I'm glad that there's
nothing you can do for his pain, and I hope
he feels it in all the like nerve endings. These
kids aren't there for ten seconds and he tries to
molest one like what are we doing here?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
A story?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
But you know we only have an hour and twenty
five minutes, so I got to keep it moving along.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, yeah, but I do think that everything every choice
in the movie if it does have a statement, and
I do think it has a point or at least
a point of view, which is that this is intentionally,
I think, a movie about.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
Bullying or mistreatment, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah, And I think if I think, everything surrounding it,
whatever cations may it may have or may not have,
is trying to support that thesis. You know, it's trying
to support, you know, somebody who would be a victim
or potentially a victim you know where you know, And
is it using like obvious stuff like oh they're a

(29:15):
you know, minority, or oh there you know, a different
sexuality or oh they're different you know, gender or whatever
mix of that in there there is I think that
that's just supporting that idea, you know, where it's like,
this is somebody who naturally would feel sensitive about themselves,
about their situation about you know, and even if you live,
leave all of that aside, you know, the opening scene

(29:36):
of this movie is a traumatizing trigger where it's like
this person in your your father was you know, killed
in front of you, you know sort of yeah, yeah,
an accident or not, like it's it would still kind
of mess you up in a big way.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
So even if it was that alone, you know.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, and that's why it's just like, it's also
that if you're different in any kind of way and
don't conform to what other people want you to do
or want you to act, then you are just targeted.
Because all she did was not talk Angela. You know,
she just and everybody. The more she wouldn't talk, the
more mad people got, and that's when she would do
the Angela stare. And I was listening to her talk

(30:15):
about it on Joe Bob. I watched it a couple
of years ago when he did his all night marathon.
He had her on to kind of like come in
and say, what was you know, going on with the
filming which just ended up. She's like, I had a
crush on every boy, every single.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
One of them. I love them all.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
And I was like, okay, Angela, you're thirteen, that's adorable,
But she said the director, she was just like, you know,
it was hard for her to disassociate what was real
and not real because she was thirteen and everybody was
just being horrifically mean to her. So she was like,
I wasn't even kind of acting. I really wanted to
fucking kill them, and it's.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Because it was they.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I mean, that's what you go back to the script
and like these people are far from innocent, even the
young kids, like you shouldn't throw sand, you know, like
there's a lot of everybody. When she finally to her point,
like even those little kids throwing sand was too much
for her to take.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
And that's what happens.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
When you keep pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing,
someone's gonna snap.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
It doesn't matter, you know.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
And something that we haven't mentioned yet, which I which
is a quality of the movie that I really enjoy
is there is a lot of baked in ambiguity to
it as well, because of its you know, infamous and
shocking and you know, unexpected ending.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
You know, it feels like we have all the answers,
but we kind of don't. In terms of how much
Ricky knows, how much Ricky might have done, how much
he might have been involved.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
I'd like to think that Ricky doesn't know that's mine
because he's so young.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
Yeah, but don't live with Angela and.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Is the mom probably is like your cousins, so you
have to shower separate or you.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Know, maybe Yeah, but I think again, I like that
there isn't a definitive answer to that, because I do
enjoy the idea that, you know, there's a lot more
going on beneath the surface, because that's kind kind of
what the one of the themes of the movie is,
you know, yeah, you don't know what people are dealing with,
you to know what they got going on.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
You know, it is funny.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Ricky to me is the only decent person in the
entire movie. Yeah, but like you know, I mean, think
about it. He really doesn't do anything too wrong and everybody,
he's not screwing anybody, he's not being horrible, he's not
pull like he did the shaving cream joke.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
But then what were they calling him?

Speaker 4 (32:22):
Matt Mozart.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Matt Mozart pulls a knife out on him, like a
real knife, like he's going to kill him, and I'm like,
whoa that? Well, you know, you don't stab somebody over
the shaving crea the ass in the face of the
nose joke.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know, that's kid stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
But you're not doing anything like these other people were doing.
And he was really defending his cousin and I just
was really endeared to him. I was like, you're a
good kid, Ricky, and I like that he got in
just as much trouble because of his filthy, fucking mouth.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
You bring up a good point which I wanted to
ask you about too, because again, coming at this movie
from someone who you know is well aware of the
of the beginning, you only can see it really one way,
you know, the first time watch it. But it does
seem to me the more I watch it, that there
there was an attempt to build in or bake in
like this who done it? Aspect, you know of like

(33:09):
who could it be? And I think that Mozart moment
is one where it's like, oh, could it be this kid?
You know, because he got a knife? You know?

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
It's hard because I was Ken is only seen it once.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
So last night was my husband's second time seeing it,
and it's because they show Angela's hands a lot, and
there's certain scenes when you start to get to the end,
you're like, oh, it's definitely it's definitely her.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
By the way, the only one that's not is the
knife scene.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
But the what I did learn from what listening to
the commentaries on the Blu ray is that those hands
are Jonathan Tierson's hands because they kept Tearston around because
I think he was just eighteen or something when they
were shooting this.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
You wanted to confuse people, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
I wanted to, but like you know, it was easier
to keep him around and do all the killing scenes
rather than keep the thirteen year old Felyssa Rose around,
you know.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
And I will say when we get to the kills.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Another reason why this is top tier for my favorite
like slasher movies, is one of the kills because of
all the horrible things I've seen in movies, for me,
this one is way up there.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Well, let's talk about it now, because I think one
of the most fascinating things about this it's in the
slasher pantheon, is that I would not consider this a
particularly gory movie, at least not in the way that
slashers are typically thought of, you know. And even comparing
it to a Friday at thirteenth, it's less about oh,
what crazy you know, trick can we do with a

(34:34):
knife or whatever, And yet there's stuff in here that's
incredibly memorable, you know, and super well done.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Well, there's a Friday the thirteenth kill.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, there's the arrow to the throat, which looks which
is fabulous still I have a last night.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I was like, wow, that looks really good at French.
She did a great job.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
There's the knife down the entire back, which is awful.
There's the bees, so let's talk about the bees because
so he you know, the one guy went into the stall.
There's three feet at the bottom of the stall, there's
three feet at the top of the stall. But he
can't get out of this stall, and they put that
little tiny stick there. It's one of my favorite scenes

(35:12):
because he's just screaming horrifically.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Nobody hears him.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
You know, they hang that little tiny honey comb in there,
and there's like six bees.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
But then when we get to the end, there's like,
I don't know, five hundred bees.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, yeah, And it's just so funny because you're like,
oh my god, anybody would be able to get out
of here, but here we are.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
He looked gross. It look good.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
And then there's my favorite one of all time, vaginal
death by curling iron. Now let me explain to you
why to me. First of all, I'm a hairdresser. I'm
touching curling I if I even even my own hair,
if I graze my head, if I barely touch myself
with my curling iron.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
When I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
People's hair, it hurts for like two days. It reds,
it swells up. It's a blister, you know, like not
a full blister, but there is a mark there. So
I that little Dallas of pain. I can't imagine. I
can't imagine how horrible that would be. I mean enough
to make her do jazz hands straight up instead of
trying to stop her anything.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Right, But I think that blew my mind when I
saw that.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
It's one of the most original, you know, kills in
the movie. And I think it's because it leaves a
majority of of everything to the imagination, because when I
first saw this movie, that was not where my mind
first went.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
I thought.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
I thought that the curling iron was going into her
head through the pillow as a stabbing, you know sort
of thing sees women.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
We know that that looks like when she opened it
like that, it's like going to the little Papsmer.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
I was like, oh no, what is it the shocker?
I could the shocker.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
I was going Papsmere, but I was shocking.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, I don't know the past fear as well. But yeah,
so I think that again, like it's something that and
because it was so obviously intended to look that way
and be presented that way. On Hiltick's part, it is
such a smart choice as opposed to what one of
the not to keep ragging on the Friday the Thirteenth movie,
because I love those movies, But it's a smarter choice

(37:11):
than what one of the Friday the thirteenths might have done,
which is to try and do it not for obviously
not for real, but like for with some sort of
practical effect that then they would inevitably have to end
up cutting down or cutting out, you know, because of
MPAA regulations. And you know, I think what's funny is
that those movies end up having more of an effect

(37:32):
because you're not getting the full picture. You know, if
you watch any uncensored footage from you know, Friday thirteenth
final Chapter or part seven, you know, New Blood, then
you'll see like, oh, it wasn't that bad compared to
you know, what we're used to today. But you know,
when you cut away at the last second, it feels
like it's worse. Whereas Hiltsick has it baked in right
from the beginning, like he gets to show the whole

(37:52):
sequence because the whole sequence doesn't have anything visually offensive
in it, but when you put it in context, it's like,
oh god, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah, I love us when it's just because then it
lets me go, oh my god, I know exactly what
would be happening, and let's do it in the shadows,
you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Not one hundred, like fifty to fifty if that would
kill you.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
But the electrocution I guess from because it's electric maybe
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Or you could say, you know, like put you into
a state of shock, so because of someone find that
stopped or yeah, yeah, something like that.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
And that's the other thing.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
I think that's another great point in terms of the
movie's ambiguity too, is that we're not one hundred percent
sure how many people are fully dead at the end
of this movie. You know, we don't have a d
new ma where like the police are there and it's like, well,
it turns out there was seven bodies and you know,
they're all dead, and now we've taken this person who
put him in the custody all that stuff, like we
just it's just it's got that powerness, powerfulness to the

(38:42):
ending of like it's over, get out, Like think about it.
For years to come, because like we're not going to
give you the easy answers of.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
You know, I'm glad that they let us know that
Ricky was alive still because Mel beat the shit out
of him, because Mel starts to think that it's Ricky
killing everybody because and I don't even really get how
he got.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
There, what a kook.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
But yeah, he's like, you know who it is, it's
that fucking kid, and yeah, he pounds him into the
dirt and it was really like and again another suggested
not shown scene because it's just Mel on top of
the camera just going down and punching and punching, and
you know that he's on top of this like I
don't know, fourteen year old kid, So you're not really
sure whether he's alive after that.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
No, there's a lot of questions up in the air,
which you know, I tend to love as a horror
fan because of you know what it can do to
my imagination, but especially in a movie like this, where
there's so much implied, where there's so much surrealism already
surrounding the thing, that it can just make my imagination
run rild about you know what happened next? Like how

(39:45):
these people move on with their lives. And then it
makes that opening title sequence, you know, even more eerie,
you know, the second time you watch it, because the
first time, like I said, you might be thinking, oh,
this is just a table setting visual montage, who cares whatever,
you know, echoes of camp stuff in the background on
the soundtrack, And then you watch it, you know, a

(40:05):
second time. Even you can even do this with like
just starting the movie over again after it finishes, you know,
just watch that opening titles afterwards. Imagine if that placed
at the end instead of the beginning, and it becomes
even more eerie, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
So yeah, yeah, first scene and last scene you got
to watch them very closely, and I guess the point
of view shots were very funny. But my favorite thing
that this did is it shows everybody except for like
one or two of them seeing the killer and everyone's like,
oh my god, not you, or like what are you
doing here? And it's just really funny because you're like, oh.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Who is it?

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Yep, yep, classic element that who'd done it? Especially the
slasher who done it?

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Well.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
That's the thing too, is that.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
This movie, I think it generally gets lumped in with
the Wave of early slashers, but it kind of comes
a little late in the cycle. In nineteen eighty two
when it was shot, and then certainly eighty three when
it was being shown in theaters, the slasher wave had
kind of already started to stumble a little bit. You know,
we had our boom of like nineteen eighty one where
they were just like, I forget the number, but you know,

(41:07):
it's in the double digits of how many slashers were
released that year alone, And certainly by this time, the
formula of the slasher was established. You know, even though
we were still you know, fifteen years away from scream,
you know, or whatever spelling it out for general audiences,
you know, filmmakers were pretty much aware at this point like, okay,
there's this you know figure, like you know, there's there's

(41:30):
the prior evil, which Victor Miller likes to call it of,
you know, the flashback scene of like here's something that
happened in the past that you know caused the trauma
that's going to happen in the future. And you know,
here's our protagonist who's usually a young girl and usually
swede and you know, unassuming and mousey and nice whatever
virginal what have you. And then here's you know, the
who done it killer and blah blah blah. So this

(41:52):
movie does lean into a lot of those tropes, but
only to subvert them, really, you know. And I think
that in that way also obviously goes to the tradition
of the Giallo, which you know, had really begun to
do a lot of the subversion in terms of the
who done it aspect of things, especially regarding the gender

(42:15):
of the killer.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
And yeah, when then you have your jaws and kind
of poultrig eye style like person there who's like, well,
we can't let anybody know what happened.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
This is all actually way when men bell finally is like.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
It was an accident at the end, yelling at the corner,
and he.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Guy's like, oh, I didn't mean to get you all
worked up, mill.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Sorry, I'll just go then, and you're like, wait a minute,
you're the corner and he's telling you, okay, fine, fine, fine,
And it's not until like even when he's the chick
he might be banging or not banging.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
When he sees her dead, he's like, oh no, oh no,
oh no, I can't tell anybody.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
We're just going to keep this really really quiet, and
I'm going to go figure something out, and you're like,
what's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (42:56):
And he's like, Ricky did it? And you're like, why
are you going after Ricky?

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Oh got it?

Speaker 1 (42:59):
So?

Speaker 3 (43:03):
And yeah, it's so it has a lot of that
in there. But I think that what I was trying
to say is that I think it's coming late enough
in the slasher cycle that Hiltzig was at least semi
intentional in subverting these ideas or tropes, you know. I
think that that even if he was just reacting to
what he was seeing at the multiplex at the time,

(43:24):
you know, of like, Okay, well you know this movie,
in that movie, in that movie, did it this, that
and that way, so I'm going to go this way
sort of thing. It is clever in that way in
terms of, you know, it really does carve its own
path where you know, it's this is not just another
slasher movie, as some people, you know, of the time
when it, you know, some contemporary critics called it. And

(43:48):
I think that that's why it's had such a lasting impact,
even if it didn't have its ending, you know. But
but I think it's ending is part and parcel of,
you know, because I think it's what I'm trying to say,
is it's it's it's correct to say, oh, it's just
the ending that gives it its notoriety and its popularity,
and you know how long it's lasted over the years,
that sort of thing, because if it was I feel

(44:08):
like it wouldn't be as talked about or as beloved
or you know, kind of what.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
I was trying to say, Like in the beginning, like
I watched this movie so much, you know, from age
I shouldn't have to, like my teens, not even ever
really seeing the actual story, just on TV, you know,
up all night or this or that or whenever it
would be replayed on something. And I still, like, I

(44:32):
liked it, and it was one that I would watch
because I was like, yeah, I get them. Kill those fuckers,
you know, I like little twelve thirteen year old like
I wish I could kill them. But uh, it stands
alone as a good slasher, but then it takes it
to another level with trying to be.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
A little bit more.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
You know, not artsy, but just it's not just following
the normal trope, like they did something different, I mean,
and that's why this this film only costs what three
hundred and fifty thousand dollars to make and it made
eleven million, So like that's a win. Yeah, but you know,
critics weren't very nice to it, and it took a
while for it to become cult.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
But you know, also I want to say too, is
that the movie just as shot just from a technical level.
You know, we're not talking Scorsees or Spike Lee here,
but it is a pretty looking movie. And I think
part of the reason for that is, as I was
hearing on one of the commentary tracks on the Blu ray,
is that apparently a large amount of the crew for
this movie was brought over from George Aramero's Creep Show.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh Fun.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
So the Creep Show.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Shoot had finished recently, and because they were already on
the East Coast, they just sort of hired all those
you know, department heads and everything for this movie. And
I think you can see a lot of that in
the quality of the photography, in the sense that, you know,
there's a lot of really interesting shots, not in a
showy way, but in a nice composition way. The quality

(45:57):
of the color. You know, it doesn't look cheap in
the way that some slasher movies of this period kind
of do.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
I like they use a lot of natural light and
you know, the real settings to kind of enhance that
gritty aesthetic of being at camp where everything's just like
a little dirty, everything's a little damp, and it you know,
it has that that real look.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
It doesn't look overproduced.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
It doesn't look like we're on a soundstage or you know,
somewhere built like. It looks like we are at an
actual camp.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Because it was yeah yeah, and uh the score, the
music by Edward Eddies and who did.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
This love a synth evy score baby Yeah, Oh it
was something like v v D oh God, what the
angela song?

Speaker 2 (46:44):
N Yeah, Frankie Frankie Vinci Frankie Angel You're the love
of my life. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:50):
There's an earlier one in like in the dance Hall
or whatever that he does too. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Even these even these songs like just add to this
sort of you know, unique charm of this movie. I'm
also thinking about there's a scene where, uh, the kid
in the canoe gets it uh yeah, and the girl
that's with him is initially this one actress, uh, and
then as they after they fall in the water in

(47:16):
the Lake. That actress apparently got sick or got a
gig or something, and so they just replaced her with
another girl.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I didn't even notice. I didn't care.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
Yeah, you don't know.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Like it's it's that sort of you know, can do
independent film spirit that really pervades this movie of you know,
let's get it done. I'm leading up to the most
infamous instance of the let's just get it done, which
is the guy the cops mustache.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Oh my god, that snail. What is that?

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Because in his first scene he had this, you know, regular,
obviously self grown, real mustache. And then in between shooting
that scene and when they finally got to him for
his final scenes at the end of the movie, he
had gotten some sort of commercial gig and it was
forced to shave it off. But they still needed him
to complete his work for this movie. I don't know
why they just didn't. You know, they could have gone

(48:05):
another way. They could have hired another actor to play
just another cop, right, but they wanted the continuity of
the same cop, and so they thought, oh, let's just
put the shoe Paula Shan like croud show marks and
nobody will know.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
And they go a huge close up.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
It was so like, I don't think I noticed it before,
but it was so noticeable that I yelled it.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Out to Ken. I look it at the mustache.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah, so we were like, oh god, like at that point,
just it wasn't even fuzzy.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Back to the.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Canoe scene, because I was thinking about it. My notes
just have Why did he do that?

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Because you had the.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Girl, you had her in the canoe, you're going out
for your light ningked like cute seawootzy thing, and then
you flip it and you're both in the water.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
I was like, what was the point of that, just
to be a little jerk.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
I guess it's just boys.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
He deserves where It's like they they know they want
to be with girls, they know they want to hang out,
spend time alone with them, but they don't know, like
quite know how to get to the next step. So it's like,
I guess we're just gonna worse around, like you know,
I have for the last several years of my life
because that's all I know.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
I guess I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I love the homoeroticness of them all, Like all these
girls are all like buttoned up full shorts and the
guys are like fifteen guys, it's like six girls are like, don't.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
You want a skinny dip with us? Stop being so lame. Fine,
we'll just go by ourselves.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
And it's just a bunch of little bare asses running
and jumping in the water like you have the fun boys.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
The right time.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Why this movie I think has become so embraced by
the queer community is that this has a lot of
skin in it that none of it is female.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
It's all no, it's a very complicated sexual geography on
this film. When you start to break it down, you're
That's what I'm saying. Like the outfits. The guys are
dressed like slutty little girls like and I say that
because I used to dress like that, you know what
I mean. I'm like, look at them, look at them,
go with that. I love the blue mesh tank top.
Oh god, there's nothing like the baseball scene. The baseball
scene is one of the most fun. The lines, the

(49:51):
digs that they're throwing at each other. Ah, it's so good.
Just that scene alone is a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
And I heard secondhand that I guess, you know, there's
some I don't know. Critics are obviously horror fans that like,
don't like that scene because of how long it takes
and how nothing scary is happening. But like, if you're
not vibing with that scene, then you're not gonna vibe
with the movie.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
Like, let's just be real. I think.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
No.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
The only thing that almost turned me off to the
movie is when they all get to camp and it's
like twenty five kids running off each bus screaming, and
I was like, if we're going to do this the
entire movie, I am out.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
I think the thing that almost got me to retch
was the fly strip paper in the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
I have a note about that too, but looks fairly real.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
No, because it was Ashley, Because on the commenter they're like,
those were there. We did not set dress that those
were there in the kitchen that they used the production
used to feed the crew and cast while they were
at the camp, And it's like I would never have
eaten food out of there.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
No.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Also, I have never seen a pot that big of
my entire life.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
I'm sure they exist.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
No, No, the pot was built for the movie. They said, Okay,
they wanted because that was what they thought would be
essential for the scene.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
You know where.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
It's like, this pot's got to be freaking huge, so
we could fall.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Over on him. So, yeah, that pot was not real,
because it is clearly not real.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Also, Ricky sees something, say something, the fact that he
saw and acknowledged what the cook was going to do
to Angela and then never brought it up to anybody.
I don't care if his skin gets burned off. You
tell somebody, you see something, you say something.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
Kids, Yeah, unless Ricky was it on it, in on
the cook and the killing or the scalding, you.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Know, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh that's what you mean.
Oh you're going on this whole weird Okay, Now I don't,
I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
I'm saying it's possibility, it's possibility. What else do we
want to talk about it?

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Right, Let's get to the ending, because this is this
is so when you watch the beginning of this, it
is the two dads and their son and daughter, right,
Angela and Peter Peter, and the boat comes, it takes
two of them out, and you see, you physically see
that the boy is still alive because the girl had
little like pigtails in You never think about that again, right,

(51:58):
all of a sudden, we're with doctor Aunt Maggie or whatever.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
Her name, Yeah, self imposed doctors.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
So the doctor and we meet Ricky and Angela and
you know, she has adopted her in and you don't
you're not even I swear to god, you're not thinking
about it, and it is kind of crazy.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
And then going through.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
That and Maggie is like, you know, hey, uh Martha sorry,
is like, hey, I've here's your physical slips that I've
filled out for you already, Like these are your official
physicals that you can give to the you know, the
camp doctor or whatever.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
So it's like, okay, what gives you the right to
fill those out for them? Okay, sure, all right.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
As a child, I would be like fill this out, mom.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Anyway, So we go through the whole thing, you go
through the whole movie. Angela's being bullied. She has this
thing about her where she just says the stare. Well,
right before the final sequence are kind of in the middle,
we see a very random flashback of the two children
like kind of peeking in at their you know, parents
having sex, and then we jump away from it and

(53:01):
you're just like, that was odd. That was a weird
thing to throw in there. But then as we get
to the end, it is revealed that the aunt who
took her in was so crazy that they didn't want
to they already had a boy, so they raised Paul
as a girl. Peter, Peter whatever, whatever, hell Mary, you know, Peter,
Gospels whatever, all the same, Peter Paul.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Okay, you go ahead, they.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Yeah, oh so yeah. So then right, so we we
get the final image of Angela slash Peter's you know,
real Peter, real figure being revealed as yeah, as someone
who was biologically male but has been raised as a

(53:51):
as a female or you know, forced raised.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
I guess you could also say.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
And then obviously, you know, there's there's a lot of
you know, funny lore about the actual shooting at this moment.
I guess the person whose body it was as yeah,
as the male part of Angela was hammered, was a
college student or something like that, Yeah, right, who the
production found and just offered to pay, but also get

(54:19):
them blastered so they could be comfortable being naked in
front of a whole crew and everything.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
And it was like a little girl and the Angela
mask was on, and then it was full frontal for
that and like they just stood there, so yeah, I
mean you kind of don't see it coming. And then
Angela really like goes through and really kills everybody who
has wronged her in before, like before then, like the
when she got thrown into the water. These three little
kids were throwing sand on her, and we see like

(54:44):
the counselor taking the kids out to go camp onto
the stars, and you're wondering why we're going on this journey,
and two kids want to come back because kids are annoying,
and he's like, fine, getting the van, will go.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
And when he comes.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Back, we had seen the POV killer take an axe
and you kind of just think they're taking the axe
and leaving.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
No, no, no, no, no, no no. They chopped those kids up.
They chopped them up just for throwing sand.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
I'm like, see, when you push people too far, you
fuck around, you find out little kids.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
But the best is what she did too. So is
Peter the boyfriend?

Speaker 4 (55:16):
No, Peter, where is it?

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Andrew? What's the guy who's head she cuts off?

Speaker 4 (55:20):
Paul? Paul is the guy whose heads cut off? Peter?

Speaker 1 (55:23):
That is why I'm doing that. You made me feel
kind of crazy. I was like, wait a minute, there's
a Peter and a Paul on this Pio. Okay, yeah,
so she kills the boyfriend who's been a jerk who
kind of cheated on her with Judy, but you don't.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
See it coming because she's just humming. And then she
stands up with the head, which I thought, slay, I
loved it.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Yeah, you deserve that, but they were like, oh wait,
you're thirteen, you probably didn't deserve it.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Yeah, it's maybe a little extreme of punishment, but but no,
I think that really the biggest takeaway from the ending
is that, well, there's there's a couple of things. There's
a couple there's tons of things liver mind, but I
think that plot wise, I guess the biggest thing is is,
you know, all of the bullying, all the repression, all

(56:10):
the trauma has made Angela slash Peter, you know, snap
right right, And so you could look at the ending
of the you know, contorted face, the thiss hissing, or
the sound that that she's making as being like, okay,
like this is the sound of someone who's just fully
gone insane, and you know they're just ranting and raving.

(56:33):
How you might see, you know, somebody a derelict on
the street or something like they might sound that have
that extra there's like an extra tenor to their voice
of just like madness.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
Right.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
But it also, of course, you know, makes her into
a bit of a monster or creature in that sense
of and there's that you know, this abversion for the
audience of like, oh, you thought this was just this
sweet young girl who was being picked on and blahah blah,
which is true, but oh it turns out that she's
also got you know, a mean streak to her or
something you know that that you didn't see coming sort

(57:05):
of idea. And yeah, it absolutely gives the movie a
huge power in terms of just ending right there, you know.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
And I used to be really scared of the credit.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Sure, because it's the freeze frame of the image in
this green like sickly green car.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
No one can open there. I guess it's not there.
Felicia just can really open that mouth and make.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Those you know.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
And yeah, even for Ed French to take that mold
of her face like she had to have her you know,
face contorted in a position for an hour however long
it was have like a like a dental damn like
put in her mouth to keep it open. That sort
of thing. Yeah, it's very uncanny. I think it's the
right word, you know, where it's just it's just that
sensation of like everything you've assumed or thought you knew

(57:50):
or whatever is been up ended. And the movie just
leaves you with that. Like it doesn't, like I was
saying earlier, it doesn't give you a Damu Moss scene.
It doesn't give you a psycho you know, where the
psychiatrist comes in and it's like, okay, well it turns
out that blah blah blah, like you get the answer
of what happened, right. We get the scene with Aunt
Martha saying, oh, I didn't have a daughter, and I

(58:12):
think it's so much nicer to have a daughter and
a side.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
I already have one, have one.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Of those you know sort of thing. So we get
the explanation in terms of what literally happened. But yeah,
we don't get like a cushion, you know from the
filmmakers is like okay, here you go, audience, like here,
we'll just like massage you into the ending and you
know sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
It really is a shove where it's like.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah, then a lot of things do become clear because
throughout the film, you know, one of the PE's is
trying to make out and kiss Angela and like, yeah,
she has Paul has an issue, like Angela has an
issue with it in the middle of it, and that's
when you're like, oh, she was thinking about you know,
her dad's and this and that, and like, you know,
she at a young age, she's like, maybe I shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Cry and gain this guy.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
And then you understand why she's getting She's getting bullied
because she's not showering with the other girls, and you
understand why now. And then she's getting bullied because she
doesn't want to go swimming and you understand why now.
So that's why she has this meltdown. The snapping point
was definitely when they threw her in the water. That's
when she's like, I'm going to kill all you on
the runs because you would be able to see, you know,

(59:18):
her genitalia and I couldn't remember where they had her
padded or anything. But they don't really get into that.
You just see at the end she you know, she's
taking her top off to make out with you know, Paul,
and you're like you thirteen year olds, I'm like, oh, no,
I guess that's about right, but yeah, it's it makes
everything suddenly come to focus, but you do have to

(59:40):
go back and reflect on the things that you have seen,
and then you realize that the themes of the movie
are gender identity, childhood trauma, and bullying, where most of
it just seems like bullying until you, you know, you
really get to understand what's actually happening. And this has
caused a lot of you know, discussion and controversy in
recent years regarding its portrayal gender and trans issues, kind

(01:00:03):
of the same way that we discussed about on Terror Train,
you know, the way.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
That people you know, can.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Take things in a new light, in a new way
of seeing things, and you know, have different opinions on
what they're seeing now versus the way that people thought
about them in the eighties.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Well there's a real tradition, not just to the you
know what some people call the trans panic. You know,
idea of the switching of the killer's gender in the movie,
you know, of a twist of like, actually you thought
it was a man, but it's actually been a woman
this whole time, or vice versa.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
It happened in Pride at thirteenth.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
It happened in.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Friday the thirteenth, the same year this movie came out,
and well, actually note the year before this movie came out,
in ninety eighty two, there was Dario r Junto's Tenebrae,
which has a very similar not to give it away,
but very similar aspect. And there's also this trend of
you know, and this is much i think maybe even

(01:00:59):
a much older or trend in horror, which is the
idea of psychosexual trauma somehow leading to you know, a
mental breakdown which then leads to murder or violence in
some way. Even just movies in the contemporary period around
Sleeppoyt Camp you have something like Christmas Evil, which has
like the early flashback of you know, Mommy kissing Santa Claus,

(01:01:20):
only it's not just kissing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
You have some of the night Deadly Night of you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Know, pretty traumatic.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
This kid has a traumatic experience where it's like Santa
Claus you know, rapes his mother in front of him.
So it's like, is rape the only time that sex
is cool because Sannah did it, you know sort of thing.
There's dozens of other examples to name. There was a
movie from any One called Madhouse where it has a
similar flashback sequence I think to the one that you
were talking about Ash in this movie of you know,

(01:01:47):
the two kids on the bed, like you know, kind
of trying to poke each other, point at each other,
like you know, their first sexual curiosities, right because of
what they saw their parents doing and all that. So, yeah,
it's all swirled around in this movie. And if one
is not being charitable, one can almost say that Hiltick
is being somewhat irresponsible and throwing all of this into

(01:02:10):
the mix and not giving it some sort of point
of view or example.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
I think he does.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
I think that, as we've been saying this whole time,
it is leaning all the way towards you know, bullying
and you know repression and that sort of stuff. But
it is a lot. You know, there's no easy answers
to any of this in terms of what the effect
is or what it really means or you know that
sort of stuff. But I think that this whole time

(01:02:37):
that we've discussing the movie, and it's something I agree with.
You know, generally, one of the biggest abversions of the
movie is that technically, you know, the final girl as
defined you know in call Clover's men women in chainsaws
becoming or being turned out to be the killer and
them being one of the same character, you know, is

(01:03:01):
a subversion, but it doesn't take away our sympathy for
that character.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
It's not like as soon as we find this out,
we're like, oh, well, actually she was awful the whole time,
you know sort of thing it was. It's like, oh,
you know, like you said, like I kind of wish
I could have, you know, done that to all my
bullies in camp and all that sort of thing, which
I think is telling. You know, I think, yeah, the
fact that we're still sympathetically with Angela despite the awful

(01:03:26):
crimes that she commits, you know, yeah, it has that
vibe to it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
And as far as I would go with this movie,
maybe not the consequential sequels. I wouldn't even say that
Angela would be trans because it was more forced upon them,
which would call It's kind of like how people who
are trans now are Like I see myself as a
female and because I'm stuck like this, it's driving me crazy.
It's making me want to you know, lose it or

(01:03:52):
you know, even hurt themselves, you know, because they can't
be who they are, and you know it's not nobody
should tell anybody who they are. But when you're forcing
a child who doesn't know the difference to be this gender,
you know, it makes sense that the rage and the
violence would come out at a much younger age, I guess,
is what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Yeah, no, And I think that's a huge element too,
is that, you know, when we are looking at back
at this movie from a modern lens, and you know,
I think that there's one way that this movie can
be and movies like it can be interpreted in terms
of their intended effect on the audience of that time,
which is unfortunately to freak them out to be like, oh,

(01:04:34):
did you realize that a man and a woman could
be the same person?

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Sort of thing, like, you know, you didn't think this
was real, did you? America? Sort of stuff like right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
I understand that that's an element to it, but I
do think it's distinct from what the movies themselves are saying.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
Again, you know, generally with examples being.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
What they are, like Dressed to kill or something.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Yeah, yeah, but but yeah, certainly this and even something
like Insidious chapter two, you know, all both both of these,
you know, have this idea of a forced gender change
or something like that, or or a forced confusion about
a person's gender and that leading to some sort of
you know, mental breakdown. And one of the things I

(01:05:17):
wanted to mention too, is that this idea may have
some sort of basis in I think I may be
interested in this On a different episode of our show.
I can't remember if it was our show or some
other show, but there was a writer for The Twilight
Zone named Charles Beaumont who wrote a lot of episodes

(01:05:41):
of that show.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
Uh, And.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
I don't know if it's apocryphal or what basis it
has in reality, but I guess some colleagues of his
claim that his upbringing as a child was unfortunately, you know,
I had a similar problem, whereas that he had an
aunt or a grandmother or somebody who insisted on dressing

(01:06:05):
him as a girl. So it was never as far
as you know, what happens with Angela and Aunt Martha,
but there was I guess something in the air of
like somewhere in the forties, fifties, sixties, and even maybe
beyond of you know, this weird gender confusion or forced
gender change happening that that maybe in the air.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
Again, this is all speculative.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
I don't know, but I think that it's in the
culture because of some of these rumors, some of these myths,
some of these ideas. But what I will say is
that friend of the show bj Colangelo and her wife
Harmony have written a book, a literal book on sleep
Away Camp. It's just called sleep Away Camp, but it's

(01:06:52):
it's published by Die Die Books, and it's available on
you know, Amazon in most places.

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
But it is a full critical analysis from.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
A queer perspective about the movie and its impact and
its origins, and it's fascinating reads. So if you want
to dig more into this and you know where it
stands in the queer community and the trans community and
that sort of thing, you definitely want to pick it
up and read it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Nice. We'll put a link to that in the show notes.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
But yeah, so there's there's so much to consider about
this movie, even leaving that outside. But with that included,
you know, this is a movie that you could talk
about for decades.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Yeah, you know what, I love that it came out
like the same day as Yantle.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Yeah, talk about a back to back film. You know
movie Night.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Yeah, right, but it did well, right, it did well
at the box office, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Yeah, I mean three hundred Like even if eleven million
wasn't a lot back then, they only made the movie
for three hundred and fifty k.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
So win, that's a pretty big win.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
And Joe Bob he used to double feature with A
Night in Heaven.

Speaker 4 (01:08:01):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
And yeah, I think it just has that special blend
of uh sort of wink wink, nudge nudge, self awareness,
a little bit of maybe un self awareness about you know,
the costumes of the period and some of the acting
choices and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Excuse me, excuse me, we are all here for the
men's fashion. It is top notch in this movie. It's
the shortest British shoots. It's the tiniest crop tops and
mesh tank tops. Let's let me tell you something. The
film leaves very little imagination when it comes to the men,
but not the women.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
And I appreciate it. Like this movie is fucking steeped
in queerness and it's fun. It's just really it's really fun.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Yeah, and it's it's something that you know, even though
there were sequels made and I guess are like reboot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Oh oh I got Oh my god, there was too many.
There was just too many. It was a sleep Away Camp,
two Unhappy Campers in eighty eight, sleep Away Camp three,
teenage Wasteland in eighty nine, Return to sleep Away Camp
two thousand and eight, sleep Away Camp for the survey,
and there might be one more coming.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Who knows, they're never going to stop.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
Oh yeah, but I was going to say, even the
fact that this did technically start a franchise, it's not like,
you know, one of those franchises that just has gotten
a million entries and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
I mean six.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
I can't read Roman normals. I'm sorry, I'm so stupid.
Sleep Away Camp six The Survivor.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
Oh but anyway, like, even if there were no sequels made,
like this movie would still have, uh, you know, just
a lasting power and so much to say about it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Yeah, now I think I'm wrong again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
I'm never going to read Roman normals because I don't
think that Return to sleep Away Camp.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Counts as a Roman one.

Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
Okay, it is four.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
We're going to leave all that in so everybody knows
that it's okay to be dumb sometimes.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
And that's it's kind of my point where it's like
it's it's a weird franchise of like there's some sequels
that are canon, there's others that aren't, depending on which
canon you want to choose, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
This movie kind of has it all yes.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
Right U and yeah, so it's uh, it has just
this continuing sort of almost urban legend ye kind of
kind of vibe to it, which yeah, I can absolutely
As I've said multiple times, I had to don't have
a childhood history with this movie, but I can absolutely
see somebody stumbling onto it on television not knowing what

(01:10:22):
it was or you know, who made it or anything
like that, and going what the hell is this?

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
Like what is going on? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
And then it's the campus sthetic, like if you're looking
for that summertime camp movie you've watched Friday the thirteenth
a million times, then this is definitely one to show
the children. What do you got for recommendations? Unless you
have any final thoughts?

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
Uh no, I think that those are those are the thoughts.
I I don't know which way I want to go
on a recommendation because there's so much to recommend.

Speaker 4 (01:10:56):
On this, but.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
I might go with the movie I haven't mentioned yet.
Which is nineteen eighty one's The Burning.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Uh oh with who's in that?

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Yeah, Jason Alexander is one of the.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Somebody very specific in there.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Yeah, he unfortunately loses his fingers. Holly Hunter.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
If you look in the background, you can't really see
her too well, but she's in there somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
But yeah, it's like the Crops one.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, which is one of the two
Cropsy movies made around the same year, the other one
being mad Man, which I think I recommended on another
episode of Ours.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
I love mad Man.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
But yeah, The Burning also has this camp setting, you know,
and it it also has just this real surprising, you know,
brutalness to it. Obviously, uh you know, Thomsavini being involved,
you know, gives it a bit more of that far
at the thirteenth, you know, look to the kills.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
But yeah, so it's it's uh it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
I think it would pair well with sleep Away Camp
if you want, like a double feature of just the
most hellish experience you could have as a camper's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
I'm on a little sideways.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
I'm gonna go with the slumber Party Massacre in nineteen
eighty two because, uh, historically directed by female director Amy
Holden Jones, which I'm like, this movie has a lot
of boobs. It is crazy that this one that sleep
Away Camp has no boobs, Like you get a dick,
but you don't get any boobs. But there's a lot
of boob It's tasteful female boobs, which I think makes

(01:12:28):
it a little bit like female directed boobs. I don't know,
there's something really fun about Slumber Party Massacre.

Speaker 4 (01:12:34):
And the boobs just have female director.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Well you can tell the girls are so much more comfortable,
like you know what I mean. There's just like everyone's
loosey goosey with their boobs. So if you like boobs
and you like power drills, you know, nineteen eighty two's uh,
the Slumber Party Massacre might be for you.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
Yeah, it is for me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
I do like that one.

Speaker 4 (01:12:52):
It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Thank you all for joining us for this episode of
Bill and Nashley's Terror Theater, part of the Stranded Pin Network.
You can find my work in the show notes links below.
Check us out on social media. You can find this
show at strandedpinn dot com and everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:13:10):
Else you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
If you have questions or comments, please feel free to
write to us at Bill and Nash Terror Theater at
gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:13:17):
We're dying to hear see you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
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