September 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Bill welcomes former Seattle radio legend BJ Shea for an unfiltered and fascinating conversation about the highs and lows of the radio industry. Before his legendary run in Seattle, BJ spent time in Rochester, working alongside Brother Wease at the start of Wease’s iconic morning circus.
Bill and BJ reflect on Brother Wease’s influence on their careers and on radio itself, while also diving into the challenges of radio management, the mishandling of talent, and the shrinking landscape of modern broadcasting. BJ shares candid insights into the mindset of radio executives, hilarious stories about former bosses, and even opens up about mental health in the industry.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone who loves radio history, behind-the-scenes industry stories, and the legacy of legendary broadcasters like Brother Wease.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/billified-the-bill-moran-podcast--5738193/support.
Bill and BJ reflect on Brother Wease’s influence on their careers and on radio itself, while also diving into the challenges of radio management, the mishandling of talent, and the shrinking landscape of modern broadcasting. BJ shares candid insights into the mindset of radio executives, hilarious stories about former bosses, and even opens up about mental health in the industry.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone who loves radio history, behind-the-scenes industry stories, and the legacy of legendary broadcasters like Brother Wease.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/billified-the-bill-moran-podcast--5738193/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When your old career gives you lemons. Throwing some ice,
mix in some.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Vodka in color.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
A podcast from the Mac of All Trade Studio in
Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dots jeep Ram.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's Billified, the Bill Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome.
Thanks for getting your pot on. Thank you for telling
(00:35):
a friend. That's how we spread the word about the
pirate ship. A lot of local radio talk lately on
the podcast here and there, and I did want to
continue in a little bit but even talk further about radio.
And I couldn't think of anybody better than BJ Shay
because BJ has was part of Brother Weeze's world twice
(00:59):
and then went off to Seattle and just exploded and
just built an empire out there, and is uh, you know,
currently living his best life. Is that the right way
to say it? I don't know what. I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
That's what the kids are saying.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Live in my best life, living my best life.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, I was. I tell everybody that I was kicked
into retirement, kicked into and kicked into my dreams because
I didn't want to leave radio when it happened. And
I don't know if I completely left radio but it's
been almost a year since I've had a job, and
you know, Billy, what I found is not a lot
of call for a sixty five year old, cisgendered, heterosexual,
(01:42):
Caucasian broadcaster. For some reason, nobody is really banging down
the door to get more old old white guys to
give their opinions. I don't understand it. I feel like
the country just doesn't have enough old white guy opinions.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I know, I'm with you. I'm with you on that.
The old white guy opinion was very popular. We had
a run, beach, we had a run.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, we had a man. And of course, just like
my life, my entire career has been you know what,
you're almost ready. Oh wait, now you are, but we're
moving on.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah. Well that's it. That's yeah, that's very that's very funny.
But you so we's uh. I'm going to say, I
think to the audience abruptly retired. And I said on
my episode yesterday that these decisions and a company and
it was it's iHeart that he was working for. I said,
(02:29):
there's so many layers there that any decision that seems
to have come abruptly has not. It was four or
five months in the making, and from what I understood
from some insiders that I that still connect with me,
because the great thing is there's somebody in Seattle that
will talk to me once in a while because I
was on their national rock platform, so I did like
(02:53):
eighty stations for them, and I'd have to be all
these meetings and stuff, and uh, I think it was
the kisw st Eve Well anyway, doesn't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
no no no no, no, yeah, not Steve Miggs. That's
your guy, that was your old pride. No no, no,
this is a paps. This was somebody way up in
(03:13):
I heeart. Well maybe it was where anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, no, that's not I probably don't know that.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's my bad. But this guy would kind of tip
me off to some things that were happening, and from
what I understood, they wanted we used to stay and
do his music show on the weekends through the end
of the contract, which was coming up at the end
of this year.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And that's what we said on his bro He deluded
to that on his final.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Show, okay, and then he he did say that that
was he wasn't going to do it, and he was
very upset. We did talk briefly after his final broadcast,
and he says he's going to do a podcast at
some point, and he will do. He'll he'll reveal all
at some point. But I just think that the people
(03:59):
don't understand that these things. Well, there's two to me, Beach,
and you can speak to this very well. There are
two things that play here. One is business. Business is
cold and has no emotion. It's just about making money
or not making money. Was it Weez's fault that the
station was not making money? No, he was near retirement himself.
(04:20):
He was you know, he had it. I think he
stayed longer than he intended to stay, but maybe I'm wrong.
So I don't think there was anything really there. But
the rest of the station, the ratings were horrible. The
place was like basically a dumpster fire, and so you
got to make a change. But the emotional side, and
especially what we did and do is talk to people
(04:42):
and make connections. And that's hard because you have become
people's friends. And I think that I tried to look
up some radio stats. I still think currently in the
United States, and I don't know when this is from, up,
around ninety two percent of Americans listened to the radio
at least once a week. Thirty one percent tune in Daly,
which is down from thirty seven percent in twenty twenty three.
(05:05):
So we're going back a few years on that data,
maybe even lower now, because do.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
You know what the problem with that is? Really?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The problem with that is nobody in the advertising world
believes those numbers. I don't know if they're true or not.
I don't even not a statistician, but what I do
know nobody believes it. Listeners, younger people don't believe that,
and a lot of advertising agencies, big companies, they don't
(05:32):
believe that. It is very frustrating. It's very very frustrating
that if that number is true, that somehow, some way
radio can't get people to believe it because my gosh,
the price that radio charges for advertising, and if those
numbers are true, the ritual investments insane, right, But that
really is the big problem. They can't get people to
(05:53):
believe that that number is true, that that that statistic
is true.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So I'd like to go back at some point and
hit so many your time with Wie's But let's keep
on this sort of trajectory of what happens in radio.
I mean, there's so many layers, and this is why,
so they knew.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I have a great story that won't get me in
trouble because it happened so long ago, but it will
illustrate your point about the ridiculous nature of how they
don't plan and how they are also so covert and
ridiculously secret that they will hurt people's lives. They will
do really dumb things. And this still goes on in radio.
(06:33):
But this happened to me many years ago, so it
won't get me in trouble in any current situation or
even in anything that happened in the last twenty years
of my career, because this happened more than twenty years ago.
But this is very typical for radio, how they operate. Well,
we'll get to that if you want to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, no, I'd like to, because I'm just saying that
I think that they knew they were making this move
back around May. That's my guest only because if it's iHeart,
probably any radio company, they're going to want to do
a music test, which takes time to find out what
lane we go in if we're getting out of the
(07:08):
spoken word genre, and then I think a lot of
people were very hurt because of personality as big as
We's and as such a part of the fabric of
the community. It would be like Letterman saying, I'm retiring
in a year, and we have time to prepare, and
you do things, you practically have a parade for the person.
(07:30):
I mean, I know some people go, wow, We's's old news. Okay, maybe,
but he wasn't, and he, to me he deserved that.
He did too much for the community. I think the
problem BJ corporate radio is very big and runs very lean.
When I left, I was doing business reports for the
(07:52):
news station and helping produce Brother Weez's show, a talk
show with John Detulio, and eighty stations around the county.
I mean, it's just the way it is. And if
you look at the guys in charge here, they're in
charge all the way down to New York City practically
along the Thruway in terms of markets and managing and
all that. And I just think they don't have the
(08:12):
manpower and they don't have the people who know Wes
that well anymore to put something together. I really do.
I don't know that it's a lack of caring. Certainly
I guess I always say this, so maybe I'm contradicting myself.
If you will, if you want to, you will. This
is what I always say. If you want to, you will.
(08:33):
So if they wanted to, I guess they would. But
there was no I mean, it should have been planned.
This hasn't been a secret to somebody that his contract
was going to end. And that's the part that I go, boy,
you really miss something. And oh, by the way, could
have made a ton a ton of money, right, yeah,
I mean really.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I was in that same situation with kisw for Odyssey
where it was the last year of my contract in
twenty twenty three, and it was the same thing. You know.
It was they they were in a situation where they
were like, we have to make a change. Uh. It
was more financial in my case, whereas I don't know
what the real issue is with why they couldn't do
(09:14):
what they wanted to do and keep WE'SE. I don't know.
I mean, we can you and I can guess, but
I don't know why they decided to let We'se go.
But for me, they were they it was financial. I
got to talk to my general manager because he retired
shortly after I left the station. So we got together
for lunch and I'm you know, I put together. I said,
I want to know everything, tell me everything. I'm not
going to be mad at you. I just want to know.
(09:35):
It's really good to know how things went down. And
they you know, what they did, though, to their credit, was,
you know, they gave me enough lead time and said, look,
here's what we're going to do and it's not going
to include you. And that gave me enough lead time
to you know, to figure it out. They let me
(09:55):
stay on air, which I thought was really bizarre because
normally you don't want someone on here. You want to
you want to force them to almost have like a noncompete.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That was a really really I thought, unique situation for you.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah. Well, the company, I'll tell you the local people,
it says why I always love KISW. I don't know
if corporate wanted them to do this, but I know
that local management said we're going to do right by
this guy. We're not going to enforce this. In Washington State,
it's really hard to enforce a non compete. They're really
unenforceable in most cases. And in my case, it would
have been unenforceable because they just said we don't want
(10:30):
you anymore, and then Washington State will say, well, he
gets to go do what he wants. You said goodbye.
Because management's mediocre. I APPROACHIP for anybody in radio. If
you're a manager, don't tell anybody make up another job,
because being a manager in radio is lower than somebody
that sweeps you basically crap out.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Of a zoo.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
You are not good. Radio management is the lowest form
of life form there is, and you're not talented. I
don't care. If you're a CEO in radio. Don't tell
anybody you're a CEO in that business because again, anybody
can be You can get a range tanks to do
your job, and that's just you see things like this.
This is a managerial failure on every level. I mean,
(11:10):
his company on every level failed. He is a Hall
of Fame broadcaster who gets in the Hall of fame
these days in radio from Rochester, from Rochester, right, I mean,
I mean, oh, it's this is a massive failure. And
I can excuse corporate because look, the CEO of his
company maybe shouldn't know how great wheeze is, because most
(11:33):
radio managers don't know the the just the history of
somebody being just an amazing talent in a town like Weeze,
but local knows nobody. This is a massive failure. And
this is what from radio radio. Just I get. Radio
has its challenges, but it's always had challenges with bad management.
They don't have people that go to managerial training programs
(11:55):
that actually teach them how to be managers. They take
people who should never interact with artists, and that would
be a salesperson. A salesperson should never interact with an artist.
It is the wrong thing to do, and they put
them in charge. A salesperson should never be in charge
of anything because they don't care about anything but convincing
people to do what they want. That's not a good manager.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
They're great at.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Going out and that's what radio does. They'll get some
program director who's basically just a computer and they don't
know how to talk to people either. And radio continues
to make this mistake. They don't have casting directors, so
they always put people together who don't not want to
do radio together. This person will be great with this person. Now,
they have no chemistry. How do you not see that?
And it's the business is bereft of good management. Well, sorry, Billy,
(12:41):
I'm off. It's just I'm ranting about how bad management
is in the industry.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I hit that nerve. I hit that nerve. Beach, Oh yeah,
I mean, can you think of a good manager?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Well, I liked that I've worked with in my career.
It's how bad it is.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I thought Stan Maine was great when I when I
worked with them, I don't know how he was when
when if you when you worked with it.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You know, I'll tell you right now. Stan was one
of those guys that he had to he had to
make the adjustment because Stan and I both were cut
from the same cloth. This is how you do radio,
and then we's upended both of our worlds, right and
to Stan's to Stan's credit, Stan was like, Okay, I'm
going to make the adjustment. And you don't find a
lot of human beings that can do that. Stan mean
(13:23):
was a person that could actually say, you know what,
I'm not afraid of this. I will roll with this
because a lot of program directors would be afraid of
weez because they have to look like it's them reverence,
It's me that's doing this. I'm the one that's creating
the success. Stan realized, there's no way that I can
sell that. I'm in charge of the entire success of this.
Weez is a huge part of it. But Stan was
(13:44):
really good at making the adjustment and then everything else
that happened on the radio station outside of WIZ. Stan
was a master master, you know, orchestrator of all that. Yeah,
I agree with you. Stan was one of the good ones.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, I thought Stan was good. And then the late
John Thomas if you ever interacted.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
With him, I never got to work with John no
j T.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
He was one of my absolute favorite guys. Uh so
two I had two good managers. Then there were you
know the other ones I I turned into the carpet salesman.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Did you ever work with a carpet salesman? H yeah,
the guy who the guy who told me Wes was
horrible and and now he's selling carpet somewhere. I'm just like,
you gotta be Why do I have to listen to
a guy? But I'm gonna wah, oh my god, I
know exactly, Yeah, you know who it is. It's like
he's literally was a carpet salesman. Oh, this guy's telling
me no, the biggest success in Rochester shouldn't be on
(14:38):
the radio. And then two days later I'm walking the ball.
He's asked me if I want Burber or Shag get
away from me, man, please get away from me with
this ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Name that was. That's very funny. I forgot about it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yes, I won't mention him by name, but he's a
complete lovely individual and I hope his carpet sales are well.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
The the It's just funny because I did think I
had somebody come to me earlier in my career, who
is maybe in managing still today, and said to me,
you could be a GM. Let me train you to
(15:16):
be a GM. You don't want to go in afternoons
and die somewhere. And I said no, and I blew
off the meetings and I wouldn't go because I didn't
want that. Now, I also wish I hadn't pushed so
hard against what I from. Whence I came, so to speak.
I came from, you know, educated parents who had master's
(15:39):
degrees and doctorates and you know that sort of thing.
And I just wanted to be the rebel. I wanted
to not have to tell you know what I mean
all these different things. So it was just very interesting
to me to see that, and I think it was
weez over the years, and then especially when I was
part of his show, that you could just kind of
be yourself and start to share your opinions and your insights.
(16:02):
And I had learned early on, and I don't know
about you, I had the I still think this was
one of the greatest times in radio for me. I
sat out of here at Saint John Fisher College here
in Rochester now University, and I worked midnight to six
on rock station at Poughkeepsie, and I got bored playing music,
(16:23):
so I knew no one was, like, nobody important was
listening in the middle of the night. So I just
opened the phone speech and I did Who's up and
why at three o'clock in the morning, and I called
pay phoes and I did all the shit. And it
was just people looking to feel like they had a
friend or they mattered and they were heard. And that's
what I realized radio was. And to me, that's the
(16:46):
greatest thing is I loved people. I was so curious
about people. I loved people. Why did they do certain things.
I'm not a strip club guy, but I had gigs
at strip clubs. I wanted to know what the fuck
this guy was coming every day to see Ginger who
was never going to sleep with him, and he brought
her flowers once in a while. It was like, what's
(17:07):
going on in the head. I want to know? I
want to know. I found it so so interesting, really interesting,
and and that was like it was a playground for
me to do all that stuff. But then, you know,
with the cool thing with Weez was like, because I
was ranimal at first, he would make fun of me,
and I go, yeah, he's right, you're trying too hard
(17:30):
because authenticity has become it's now like the buzzword. You know,
ELF's the podcast is gonna work. It's got to be authentic.
And it's yeah, it always was. It always was. We
just we just denied it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And whatever if somebody, if somebody tells you they're authentic,
you're like, no, you don't.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Know, because yeah, it's the dumbest thing in the world.
That's the dumbest thing.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
But We's one of those pibolics. He's like the leaders,
you know, like he's like in treaties, I don't want
to lead, son, but you gotta lead for you doing fans.
We's was the talent who never believed he was a talent.
He never thought he was an artist. He and I
had so many fights about this because I really consider
myself a performer, which is another problem that radio was.
They don't consider it a performing art. They've ruined the
(18:19):
industry with this management mindset. That and some guy named
Leslow put out this Facebook message about how radio is
not in art and I took great exceptions that, And
I know Laslo he used to work in my company.
And I'm just so tired of people who are not
artists there saying this business is not about art. It's
like it's a performing art. I mean, radio once convinced
(18:40):
this country we were being invaded by Martians. That's how
good of an art it won. So We typifies why
it's a great art, because he is perhaps the best
storyteller of this industry has ever seen. You and I
both know, on or off the air. Once he starts
spinning a yarn, he captivates whoever is around him. He
(19:01):
just doesn't know his own strength. I'm not an artist, bro,
I'm like, I'm not going to fight with you about this.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yes you are.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You have so much unbelievable talent. You just don't want
to know it for whatever reason. I don't care, just
keep being you. But he is a great, great talent. Again,
another reason why this is such a travesty. He could
have been anything. He could have gone anywhere, you know, Billy,
we had opportunities to go to New York and Los
Angeles when we he and I were working together. I
(19:26):
put air checks and things, you know, And but he
loved Rochester and he was just like, look, I want
to stay here. This is my town. I love this place.
I'm I'm successful here. And he still transcended Rochester. I
mean that Woodstock video that he made, you know, was people.
I put that on my page recently, just said hey,
(19:48):
I want you guys to know a bit about the
man that was my mentor and who means so much
to me. My listeners were like, oh my god, this
guy is so cool. I wish I could have listened
to him.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
He was a great talent. And that's why it's so
sad if this is how he goes out.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I'm working on something that i'd like to do where
I go out and I would come to Seattle even
and film just conversation radio days stories like this, And
one of the guys I want to sit down with
who I talked to once and told me a fuck
a great story about radio. He had been in TV.
He gets in radio, the management, his manager calls up
(20:26):
and says, hey, can you provide peanut butter? He wants
peanut butter in the morning? Can you provide peanut butter?
And the radio is like, what, we don't do that here,
That's not what we do. And they're like, this is
in craft services. This is but like you see the
disparity how they treated talent like talent in TV. It
would be like, what do you want? We're gonna make
(20:47):
sure you're happy, we want you to be at your best.
We're looking for the best from you. How can we
help pull the best out? How do we make you comfortable?
How do we do that? Radio? It's like, fuck, it's
you and her or him and him and you and
oh it's like, oh my god. And when you look
at it, it is it is absolutely insane. And that
does make me laugh. It's funny. I hadn't really thought
(21:09):
of it that way, Beach and I got I love
that you're calling this guy the carpet salesman. He was
such a douche. I just have to say this. I've
told this story a few times. I've never used his name.
I don't know if it was prior or after. You know,
I had to be prior to you. He had inserted
himself because they stam Maine put me in afternoons and
(21:29):
then was sort of pushed out to Austin. And so
I'm doing afternoons and the carpet salesman becomes the guy
in charge. Now he comes in and he would do
he was part of a show in Boston, which was
a pretty big show in Boston, and he would play
bits for weez you need to do stuff like this,
(21:51):
and it was like drunk magnum Pi, like magnum p.
I wasn't even on the fucking air at the time.
So that's what did this guy's doing. And then he
decides that he was trying I didn't realize this. Here's
another one. He was trying to push me because at
the time I might have been twenty four, twenty three,
twenty four years old. He trying to push me to overnights.
(22:13):
He wanted Uncle Roger, who did overnights, to come and
do like afternoons, and Roger wasn't coming off overnights because
he didn't want to deal with management. He didn't want
to see people during the day, and he.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Just like, yeah, you know what, Roger was perfect for
right where he was. There's no way he wanted to
interact no the idiots. So he was smarter than all
of us. He was smarter than all of us.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So this guy decides that he's going to extend Dave
Kane to four and then he's going to do four
to six, and then I was due to do six
to nine. He used the radio as a dating service.
He would oh oh, he dated Collin number nine. He
would invite the women up. They would get he'd tell
(22:51):
them they'd have to get there because I think the
station closed at five thirty. I think the office the
front office. So he said you got to get here
before five thirty. And then he would ask people to
go up and check out the woman and if she
was oh, lovely, somewhat decent, you could he would come
out and see them. But if not, he had a meeting,
(23:12):
something popped up, he couldn't get to them. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
This is the car kind of card leader.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yes, yes, this is I can't tell you that leader.
I had another one, Beach. I played strip poker or
strip trivia and a woman would come up and she
was just a listener and she was pretty open, even
on the radio at times, saying my husband travels a lot.
And she talked, she danced the line, but saying how
lonely she would get. She calls me once and says,
(23:41):
I just left your boss at a and she names
the hotel he had banged, and she's going on about
how terrible he is, and she's telling me this whole story,
and he walks in the fucking studio and you know
how like the calls, yeah, I'm playing music, but the
little speaker. Oh god, it was an awful day for me.
But but at the same time so entertaining. And it
(24:02):
tells you so much about these people, so much about
these people that there's this internal happiness that they just
don't have, and so they got to then shit on
everybody else. And that's not what you need to be
in life.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Radio's best people are its talent, because they're artists that
want to make the world a better place. Well, you
know Wes, you know how Wees is at the end
of the day. And you know, his show was his
heart coming through trying to make the world a better place.
A lot of people may have had complaints about the
fact that was too political, but Weise was like, dude,
(24:36):
I am doing what I can do to give back
and make the world a better place. That's who he's
always been, right, and that's the heart of an artist,
which is why he and I will always fight. It's
like we's you are so an artists, you have the
heart because that's what artists too. Artists want to just
use whatever their gifts are to make the world better.
You know. And sure, whether you agree with this politics
or not, you can't disagree with where his heart is.
(24:58):
And you know, like he said in the way Stock video,
he never grew into this conservative person who was bitter
and stopped having a heart. He just maintained that he
was the same hippie that he always was with those
ideals and can't we all just get along and love
each other? I mean, yeah, God, that's a horrible credo
to live by, isn't it. Whereas radio management, those are
(25:21):
not the best of the best. There's a great story
which I love the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy at
the end of that book, at the end of the
multiple books, they basically leave a planet and leave all
the salespeople behind, all the marketers, all the salespeople, because
they go you really add nothing to humanity. You know,
there's mental illness and there's mental unhealthiness, and it gets
conflated a lot in our society, and so the idea
(25:45):
that people confuse the two. Angela said, Look, environmental stuff
is huge in radio because it's a highly stressful industry.
Even if in fact everything's going right, if everything's going perfect,
you still have a highly stressful job on the levels
of air traffic controller. And my therapist did research and
found out about that, and I was very happy that
he did because he was a military PTSD specialist, and
(26:07):
so with that level of stress, it's already a high
level of stress that most human beings don't ever experience
at their jobs. That's if it's good. When radio does
bad stuff, then the stress level is just beyond human tolerate,
like it's it's it's it's abusive. When the stress level
is beyond and beyond just the normal level that radio has.
(26:28):
And she wanted to bring attention to it. So yes,
she believed it, just like you do ability that. Oh yeah,
they there needs to be better, better work in understanding
how to treat your employees better than co corporations do.
The line, the secrecy, the not caring, the building of bention,
not caring about people's families or whatever. That has a
(26:48):
massively adverse effect. And another reason why I'm pissed at
the nab ra a b or whatever, because it's a
huge talking point. It's a real thing. What happens in
this country today with all this horrific stuff is due
to environmental bs done by unthinking corporations and also a
horrible government, and it's affecting human beings. This is not
(27:10):
the way we should be. We shouldn't be living like this.
Therapists will tell you we're not meant to live like this.
This we're in fight or flight mode all the time,
and we're not on the Serengeti. There's not a tiger
trying to kill us. Yet we're at a state a
lot of us where we feel like there's a tiger
chasing us and we're going to lose our life. That's insane.
Since we're the most safe part of being an American
you could ever be, It's the safest time to be
(27:32):
an American. The History Channel to research on that. Yet
people like, yeah, and that is environmental and it's a travesty.
And radio was definitely playing its part and contributing to
that negative effense.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, you did do a not a mental health show,
but you did. What was the show that you started
that did go national for all? Odyssey? Was it about
suicide or suicide prevention?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's a show called I'm listening and I want to
give credit where quick is do Dave Richards, who is
perhaps you know, one of the best program directors in
the history of this bringing business and now he's the
vice president for Odyssey, he got he could you know,
I think he was really inspired by my story, which
was the story of my daughter Sarah, who had an
(28:18):
ex boyfriend died by suicide. And you know, he worked
with me every day as we tried to navigate this
in our family, like what are we going to do?
Because a lot of times suicide, you know, guilt of
survivor guilt is such a huge thing that then some
of those survivors will die by suicide too. And I
was so like, oh my god, and it wasn't nobody
(28:38):
really knew what to tell you. Therapists didn't really have
a lot of information to help you with a person
that was a suicide basically as a survivor of somebody
who died by suicide. And so Dave was so inspired
by this, and boy, you talk about I mean the
day just was a brilliant orchestrator and a guy that
deserves so much credit for my success. I wouldn't be
(28:58):
anything if not being able to who have worked with him.
And he's like, hey, bj I want to do this.
I know how much this means to you. Would you
like to host the show. I want to make a
national show. One day a year. We will do a
national show on all of our stations and we will
just get celebrities, guests, whatever. And boy, oh boy, did
everybody want to partake in at Musicians and athletes. So
(29:20):
many people wanted to speak out about it because they
all were touched by this all at some point in
their life, whether it be family members or them selves
dealing with, you know, trying to attempt suicide. And great
people like Michael Phelps. You know you've got people on
that level. You know all sorts of musicians and Lizzo
and I'm just starting to think few that were a
(29:41):
lot of rock people, you know, and it was wonderful.
It's now a gigantic, huge national thing and Carson Daley
is now the host. I guess being replaced by Carson Bailey,
that seems fair. I think he had I think he's
got a little bit more played than it. So we
get started. We started it in Seattle, and I'm proud
of it, Billy. It's one of the best things I
(30:02):
have done in my career. It was wonderful to start
a show to start a conversation about mental health, especially
for men. Men don't want to even talk about it
because you appear a week if we talk about mental
health in any way.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, to address that, I do want to give back
to the Carson Dally thing because there's a connection to
Carson Daily and then to wee'z and you. I have
had somebody come up to me recently who is a
podcast listener, and I've talked about going to therapy and
said I'm going and thank you for talking about it.
(30:38):
But over the years I had talked about being molested
as a kid, and the number of letters. I would
get like handwritten letters sometimes even in the age of
email and all, I would get these notes from people going, man,
I was like, you know, I just thought I was.
It's one of these things where I really believe that
(30:59):
we make a mistake, and this was something that we
did very well. I think we make a mistake that
you know, if let's say a kid admits that to
the parent hate so and so touched me and molested
me whatever, and the reaction is so big that you
feel like, as a kid, you can't process is that
you've caused this. And I made my mom cry. My
dad's all pissed off now and oh my god, this
(31:20):
person they're gonna kill him, and what are they? What
did I do? And I remember when I told this
story the other day, Sammy got left on the school
bus and I'm producing the show and I get a
call heys, we's there. I go, no, well, we have
his son. He stayed on the school bus and didn't
get off when he got to school and he was asleep.
So I call wa dab, He'll be fine, don't worry
(31:41):
about it. And then all of a sudden, I go, well,
I think they're calling Dorian because he knew what the
reaction would be. But if you did, don't over If
we don't overreact to things, I think we can navigate,
help navigate them, especially for young kids early on in life.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
But the.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Going back to the Carson Daily thing, I think that's
a Howard lapedis fine. And Howard was a good friend.
Oh yes, I'm pretty sure the late Howard Lapedes found Yes,
the late the late.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
How great Tom Green, Jimmy Kimmel, Oh my god, Howard
Lapedies was responsible for so much and also one of
his biggest mistakes is he would let me do compy
is comedy club.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
The only stuff that Howard.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
But yeah, Howard was really good at spotting talent.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
That's funny. Well, uh, Beach, I loved talking to you.
I would love to have you on every once in
a while if you've got time.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, I would love to. Man, if you're gonna do
any mental health stuff, yes I am. I'm on fire
for that. I think it's a big, big subject and
we can, you know, Bill and I can help because
men don't want to go or do it and think
it's weak, and it is to me one of the
best things that humanity has ever done is the behavioral sciences.
I know there are bad therapists out there. I get
(32:58):
it's like anything else you're gonna have to keep. Okay,
there are really bad therapists out there, but behavioral science
is tremendous. It is this to me. It just shows
humanity at its best. What they've done with behavioral science
and learning how we tick. It's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'll talk about anytime you want.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
All right, I'm gonna stay in touch with the beach.
Maybe we launched it as its own podcast.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I don't know, Hey, what what am I doing?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Not the time? We could do it just like this?
Yeah all right, yeah, well I'll reach out to you
and let's see if we can do.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I love that, Billy, I'm all about it. I love that.
Later this month, actually, there's a guy in Seattle it's
also podcasting about mental health, and uh, you know, I'm like, sure,
I'll come on your podcast all again, because usually men
don't talk about it. And so I'm a man that
is known in my area and they're like you do
you go there? Yeah, And it's so good for the
(33:55):
men to hear that because we we we suffer in silence.
We really do. And there's a guy named Terrence Reel
I'll just leave you with who talks about the psychological patriarchy,
which is different than the regular patriarchy. But basically, men
have been given such a raw deal that both men
and women in society have contributed to. We are capable
of so much more, but we have just been put
(34:17):
in this box that says, no, this is how you are.
You can show anger, you can show lust. Those are
the only emotions you get to have as a man.
And we're lett to believe it's just oh, it's wiring
well like, oh, I guess this is just how we're made.
But in reality that's so not true. And I love
people like Terrence Reel and other authors that have come
out and said, hey, guess what, everything you know about emotions,
(34:39):
you know they're completely wrong and mental health and so yes, Billy, let's.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Do it, brother, all right. I love it. I love it. Bjsha,
thank you for coming on. I love I. It's such
a fan, and it's such a fan over the years.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So I right back at you, Billy, I really you know,
especially I love hearing some of the stuff you did
early in your career. I don't think I knew that awesome.
I love the late night stuff for that. What are
you up? What do you do?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
What are you doing at this outrund? Yeah? Who's up?
And why? All right, Beach, I'll talk to you soon then.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Thanks brother.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
All right, there he goes BJ shay and we will
close it out. I love it when BJ gets all hot.
That's my favorite, very thoughtful. Right. It's not like anger
just to be Angry's anger for a purpose? Uh for
brother weez. It's nice to be important, but it's more
important to be nice. I'm Bill Moran. We'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I will hold to you. Don't know what to do,
I tur
When your old career gives you lemons. Throwing some ice,
mix in some.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Vodka in color.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
A podcast from the Mac of All Trade Studio in
Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dots jeep Ram.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's Billified, the Bill Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome.
Thanks for getting your pot on. Thank you for telling
(00:35):
a friend. That's how we spread the word about the
pirate ship. A lot of local radio talk lately on
the podcast here and there, and I did want to
continue in a little bit but even talk further about radio.
And I couldn't think of anybody better than BJ Shay
because BJ has was part of Brother Weeze's world twice
(00:59):
and then went off to Seattle and just exploded and
just built an empire out there, and is uh, you know,
currently living his best life. Is that the right way
to say it? I don't know what. I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
That's what the kids are saying.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Live in my best life, living my best life.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, I was. I tell everybody that I was kicked
into retirement, kicked into and kicked into my dreams because
I didn't want to leave radio when it happened. And
I don't know if I completely left radio but it's
been almost a year since I've had a job, and
you know, Billy, what I found is not a lot
of call for a sixty five year old, cisgendered, heterosexual,
(01:42):
Caucasian broadcaster. For some reason, nobody is really banging down
the door to get more old old white guys to
give their opinions. I don't understand it. I feel like
the country just doesn't have enough old white guy opinions.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I know, I'm with you. I'm with you on that.
The old white guy opinion was very popular. We had
a run, beach, we had a run.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, we had a man. And of course, just like
my life, my entire career has been you know what,
you're almost ready. Oh wait, now you are, but we're
moving on.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah. Well that's it. That's yeah, that's very that's very funny.
But you so we's uh. I'm going to say, I
think to the audience abruptly retired. And I said on
my episode yesterday that these decisions and a company and
it was it's iHeart that he was working for. I said,
(02:29):
there's so many layers there that any decision that seems
to have come abruptly has not. It was four or
five months in the making, and from what I understood
from some insiders that I that still connect with me,
because the great thing is there's somebody in Seattle that
will talk to me once in a while because I
was on their national rock platform, so I did like
(02:53):
eighty stations for them, and I'd have to be all
these meetings and stuff, and uh, I think it was
the kisw st Eve Well anyway, doesn't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
no no no no, no, yeah, not Steve Miggs. That's
your guy, that was your old pride. No no, no,
this is a paps. This was somebody way up in
(03:13):
I heeart. Well maybe it was where anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, no, that's not I probably don't know that.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's my bad. But this guy would kind of tip
me off to some things that were happening, and from
what I understood, they wanted we used to stay and
do his music show on the weekends through the end
of the contract, which was coming up at the end
of this year.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And that's what we said on his bro He deluded
to that on his final.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Show, okay, and then he he did say that that
was he wasn't going to do it, and he was
very upset. We did talk briefly after his final broadcast,
and he says he's going to do a podcast at
some point, and he will do. He'll he'll reveal all
at some point. But I just think that the people
(03:59):
don't understand that these things. Well, there's two to me, Beach,
and you can speak to this very well. There are
two things that play here. One is business. Business is
cold and has no emotion. It's just about making money
or not making money. Was it Weez's fault that the
station was not making money? No, he was near retirement himself.
(04:20):
He was you know, he had it. I think he
stayed longer than he intended to stay, but maybe I'm wrong.
So I don't think there was anything really there. But
the rest of the station, the ratings were horrible. The
place was like basically a dumpster fire, and so you
got to make a change. But the emotional side, and
especially what we did and do is talk to people
(04:42):
and make connections. And that's hard because you have become
people's friends. And I think that I tried to look
up some radio stats. I still think currently in the
United States, and I don't know when this is from, up,
around ninety two percent of Americans listened to the radio
at least once a week. Thirty one percent tune in Daly,
which is down from thirty seven percent in twenty twenty three.
(05:05):
So we're going back a few years on that data,
maybe even lower now, because do.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
You know what the problem with that is? Really?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
The problem with that is nobody in the advertising world
believes those numbers. I don't know if they're true or not.
I don't even not a statistician, but what I do
know nobody believes it. Listeners, younger people don't believe that,
and a lot of advertising agencies, big companies, they don't
(05:32):
believe that. It is very frustrating. It's very very frustrating
that if that number is true, that somehow, some way
radio can't get people to believe it because my gosh,
the price that radio charges for advertising, and if those
numbers are true, the ritual investments insane, right, But that
really is the big problem. They can't get people to
(05:53):
believe that that number is true, that that that statistic
is true.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So I'd like to go back at some point and
hit so many your time with Wie's But let's keep
on this sort of trajectory of what happens in radio.
I mean, there's so many layers, and this is why,
so they knew.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I have a great story that won't get me in
trouble because it happened so long ago, but it will
illustrate your point about the ridiculous nature of how they
don't plan and how they are also so covert and
ridiculously secret that they will hurt people's lives. They will
do really dumb things. And this still goes on in radio.
(06:33):
But this happened to me many years ago, so it
won't get me in trouble in any current situation or
even in anything that happened in the last twenty years
of my career, because this happened more than twenty years ago.
But this is very typical for radio, how they operate. Well,
we'll get to that if you want to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, no, I'd like to, because I'm just saying that
I think that they knew they were making this move
back around May. That's my guest only because if it's iHeart,
probably any radio company, they're going to want to do
a music test, which takes time to find out what
lane we go in if we're getting out of the
(07:08):
spoken word genre, and then I think a lot of
people were very hurt because of personality as big as
We's and as such a part of the fabric of
the community. It would be like Letterman saying, I'm retiring
in a year, and we have time to prepare, and
you do things, you practically have a parade for the person.
(07:30):
I mean, I know some people go, wow, We's's old news. Okay, maybe,
but he wasn't, and he, to me he deserved that.
He did too much for the community. I think the
problem BJ corporate radio is very big and runs very lean.
When I left, I was doing business reports for the
(07:52):
news station and helping produce Brother Weez's show, a talk
show with John Detulio, and eighty stations around the county.
I mean, it's just the way it is. And if
you look at the guys in charge here, they're in
charge all the way down to New York City practically
along the Thruway in terms of markets and managing and
all that. And I just think they don't have the
(08:12):
manpower and they don't have the people who know Wes
that well anymore to put something together. I really do.
I don't know that it's a lack of caring. Certainly
I guess I always say this, so maybe I'm contradicting myself.
If you will, if you want to, you will. This
is what I always say. If you want to, you will.
(08:33):
So if they wanted to, I guess they would. But
there was no I mean, it should have been planned.
This hasn't been a secret to somebody that his contract
was going to end. And that's the part that I go, boy,
you really miss something. And oh, by the way, could
have made a ton a ton of money, right, yeah,
I mean really.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I was in that same situation with kisw for Odyssey
where it was the last year of my contract in
twenty twenty three, and it was the same thing. You know.
It was they they were in a situation where they
were like, we have to make a change. Uh. It
was more financial in my case, whereas I don't know
what the real issue is with why they couldn't do
(09:14):
what they wanted to do and keep WE'SE. I don't know.
I mean, we can you and I can guess, but
I don't know why they decided to let We'se go.
But for me, they were they it was financial. I
got to talk to my general manager because he retired
shortly after I left the station. So we got together
for lunch and I'm you know, I put together. I said,
I want to know everything, tell me everything. I'm not
going to be mad at you. I just want to know.
(09:35):
It's really good to know how things went down. And
they you know, what they did, though, to their credit, was,
you know, they gave me enough lead time and said, look,
here's what we're going to do and it's not going
to include you. And that gave me enough lead time
to you know, to figure it out. They let me
(09:55):
stay on air, which I thought was really bizarre because
normally you don't want someone on here. You want to
you want to force them to almost have like a noncompete.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That was a really really I thought, unique situation for you.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah. Well, the company, I'll tell you the local people,
it says why I always love KISW. I don't know
if corporate wanted them to do this, but I know
that local management said we're going to do right by
this guy. We're not going to enforce this. In Washington State,
it's really hard to enforce a non compete. They're really
unenforceable in most cases. And in my case, it would
have been unenforceable because they just said we don't want
(10:30):
you anymore, and then Washington State will say, well, he
gets to go do what he wants. You said goodbye.
Because management's mediocre. I APPROACHIP for anybody in radio. If
you're a manager, don't tell anybody make up another job,
because being a manager in radio is lower than somebody
that sweeps you basically crap out.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Of a zoo.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
You are not good. Radio management is the lowest form
of life form there is, and you're not talented. I
don't care. If you're a CEO in radio. Don't tell
anybody you're a CEO in that business because again, anybody
can be You can get a range tanks to do
your job, and that's just you see things like this.
This is a managerial failure on every level. I mean,
(11:10):
his company on every level failed. He is a Hall
of Fame broadcaster who gets in the Hall of fame
these days in radio from Rochester, from Rochester, right, I mean,
I mean, oh, it's this is a massive failure. And
I can excuse corporate because look, the CEO of his
company maybe shouldn't know how great wheeze is, because most
(11:33):
radio managers don't know the the just the history of
somebody being just an amazing talent in a town like Weeze,
but local knows nobody. This is a massive failure. And
this is what from radio radio. Just I get. Radio
has its challenges, but it's always had challenges with bad management.
They don't have people that go to managerial training programs
(11:55):
that actually teach them how to be managers. They take
people who should never interact with artists, and that would
be a salesperson. A salesperson should never interact with an artist.
It is the wrong thing to do, and they put
them in charge. A salesperson should never be in charge
of anything because they don't care about anything but convincing
people to do what they want. That's not a good manager.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
They're great at.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Going out and that's what radio does. They'll get some
program director who's basically just a computer and they don't
know how to talk to people either. And radio continues
to make this mistake. They don't have casting directors, so
they always put people together who don't not want to
do radio together. This person will be great with this person. Now,
they have no chemistry. How do you not see that?
And it's the business is bereft of good management. Well, sorry, Billy,
(12:41):
I'm off. It's just I'm ranting about how bad management
is in the industry.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I hit that nerve. I hit that nerve. Beach, Oh yeah,
I mean, can you think of a good manager?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Well, I liked that I've worked with in my career.
It's how bad it is.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I thought Stan Maine was great when I when I
worked with them, I don't know how he was when
when if you when you worked with it.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You know, I'll tell you right now. Stan was one
of those guys that he had to he had to
make the adjustment because Stan and I both were cut
from the same cloth. This is how you do radio,
and then we's upended both of our worlds, right and
to Stan's to Stan's credit, Stan was like, Okay, I'm
going to make the adjustment. And you don't find a
lot of human beings that can do that. Stan mean
(13:23):
was a person that could actually say, you know what,
I'm not afraid of this. I will roll with this
because a lot of program directors would be afraid of
weez because they have to look like it's them reverence,
It's me that's doing this. I'm the one that's creating
the success. Stan realized, there's no way that I can
sell that. I'm in charge of the entire success of this.
Weez is a huge part of it. But Stan was
(13:44):
really good at making the adjustment and then everything else
that happened on the radio station outside of WIZ. Stan
was a master master, you know, orchestrator of all that. Yeah,
I agree with you. Stan was one of the good ones.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, I thought Stan was good. And then the late
John Thomas if you ever interacted.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
With him, I never got to work with John no
j T.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
He was one of my absolute favorite guys. Uh so
two I had two good managers. Then there were you
know the other ones I I turned into the carpet salesman.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Did you ever work with a carpet salesman? H yeah,
the guy who the guy who told me Wes was
horrible and and now he's selling carpet somewhere. I'm just like,
you gotta be Why do I have to listen to
a guy? But I'm gonna wah, oh my god, I
know exactly, Yeah, you know who it is. It's like
he's literally was a carpet salesman. Oh, this guy's telling
me no, the biggest success in Rochester shouldn't be on
(14:38):
the radio. And then two days later I'm walking the ball.
He's asked me if I want Burber or Shag get
away from me, man, please get away from me with
this ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Name that was. That's very funny. I forgot about it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yes, I won't mention him by name, but he's a
complete lovely individual and I hope his carpet sales are well.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
The the It's just funny because I did think I
had somebody come to me earlier in my career, who
is maybe in managing still today, and said to me,
you could be a GM. Let me train you to
(15:16):
be a GM. You don't want to go in afternoons
and die somewhere. And I said no, and I blew
off the meetings and I wouldn't go because I didn't
want that. Now, I also wish I hadn't pushed so
hard against what I from. Whence I came, so to speak.
I came from, you know, educated parents who had master's
(15:39):
degrees and doctorates and you know that sort of thing.
And I just wanted to be the rebel. I wanted
to not have to tell you know what I mean
all these different things. So it was just very interesting
to me to see that, and I think it was
weez over the years, and then especially when I was
part of his show, that you could just kind of
be yourself and start to share your opinions and your insights.
(16:02):
And I had learned early on, and I don't know
about you, I had the I still think this was
one of the greatest times in radio for me. I
sat out of here at Saint John Fisher College here
in Rochester now University, and I worked midnight to six
on rock station at Poughkeepsie, and I got bored playing music,
(16:23):
so I knew no one was, like, nobody important was
listening in the middle of the night. So I just
opened the phone speech and I did Who's up and
why at three o'clock in the morning, and I called
pay phoes and I did all the shit. And it
was just people looking to feel like they had a
friend or they mattered and they were heard. And that's
what I realized radio was. And to me, that's the
(16:46):
greatest thing is I loved people. I was so curious
about people. I loved people. Why did they do certain things.
I'm not a strip club guy, but I had gigs
at strip clubs. I wanted to know what the fuck
this guy was coming every day to see Ginger who
was never going to sleep with him, and he brought
her flowers once in a while. It was like, what's
(17:07):
going on in the head. I want to know? I
want to know. I found it so so interesting, really interesting,
and and that was like it was a playground for
me to do all that stuff. But then, you know,
with the cool thing with Weez was like, because I
was ranimal at first, he would make fun of me,
and I go, yeah, he's right, you're trying too hard
(17:30):
because authenticity has become it's now like the buzzword. You know,
ELF's the podcast is gonna work. It's got to be authentic.
And it's yeah, it always was. It always was. We
just we just denied it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And whatever if somebody, if somebody tells you they're authentic,
you're like, no, you don't.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Know, because yeah, it's the dumbest thing in the world.
That's the dumbest thing.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
But We's one of those pibolics. He's like the leaders,
you know, like he's like in treaties, I don't want
to lead, son, but you gotta lead for you doing fans.
We's was the talent who never believed he was a talent.
He never thought he was an artist. He and I
had so many fights about this because I really consider
myself a performer, which is another problem that radio was.
They don't consider it a performing art. They've ruined the
(18:19):
industry with this management mindset. That and some guy named
Leslow put out this Facebook message about how radio is
not in art and I took great exceptions that, And
I know Laslo he used to work in my company.
And I'm just so tired of people who are not
artists there saying this business is not about art. It's
like it's a performing art. I mean, radio once convinced
(18:40):
this country we were being invaded by Martians. That's how
good of an art it won. So We typifies why
it's a great art, because he is perhaps the best
storyteller of this industry has ever seen. You and I
both know, on or off the air. Once he starts
spinning a yarn, he captivates whoever is around him. He
(19:01):
just doesn't know his own strength. I'm not an artist, bro,
I'm like, I'm not going to fight with you about this.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yes you are.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You have so much unbelievable talent. You just don't want
to know it for whatever reason. I don't care, just
keep being you. But he is a great, great talent. Again,
another reason why this is such a travesty. He could
have been anything. He could have gone anywhere, you know, Billy,
we had opportunities to go to New York and Los
Angeles when we he and I were working together. I
(19:26):
put air checks and things, you know, And but he
loved Rochester and he was just like, look, I want
to stay here. This is my town. I love this place.
I'm I'm successful here. And he still transcended Rochester. I
mean that Woodstock video that he made, you know, was people.
I put that on my page recently, just said hey,
(19:48):
I want you guys to know a bit about the
man that was my mentor and who means so much
to me. My listeners were like, oh my god, this
guy is so cool. I wish I could have listened
to him.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
He was a great talent. And that's why it's so
sad if this is how he goes out.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I'm working on something that i'd like to do where
I go out and I would come to Seattle even
and film just conversation radio days stories like this, And
one of the guys I want to sit down with
who I talked to once and told me a fuck
a great story about radio. He had been in TV.
He gets in radio, the management, his manager calls up
(20:26):
and says, hey, can you provide peanut butter? He wants
peanut butter in the morning? Can you provide peanut butter?
And the radio is like, what, we don't do that here,
That's not what we do. And they're like, this is
in craft services. This is but like you see the
disparity how they treated talent like talent in TV. It
would be like, what do you want? We're gonna make
(20:47):
sure you're happy, we want you to be at your best.
We're looking for the best from you. How can we
help pull the best out? How do we make you comfortable?
How do we do that? Radio? It's like, fuck, it's
you and her or him and him and you and
oh it's like, oh my god. And when you look
at it, it is it is absolutely insane. And that
does make me laugh. It's funny. I hadn't really thought
(21:09):
of it that way, Beach and I got I love
that you're calling this guy the carpet salesman. He was
such a douche. I just have to say this. I've
told this story a few times. I've never used his name.
I don't know if it was prior or after. You know,
I had to be prior to you. He had inserted
himself because they stam Maine put me in afternoons and
(21:29):
then was sort of pushed out to Austin. And so
I'm doing afternoons and the carpet salesman becomes the guy
in charge. Now he comes in and he would do
he was part of a show in Boston, which was
a pretty big show in Boston, and he would play
bits for weez you need to do stuff like this,
(21:51):
and it was like drunk magnum Pi, like magnum p.
I wasn't even on the fucking air at the time.
So that's what did this guy's doing. And then he
decides that he was trying I didn't realize this. Here's
another one. He was trying to push me because at
the time I might have been twenty four, twenty three,
twenty four years old. He trying to push me to overnights.
(22:13):
He wanted Uncle Roger, who did overnights, to come and
do like afternoons, and Roger wasn't coming off overnights because
he didn't want to deal with management. He didn't want
to see people during the day, and he.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Just like, yeah, you know what, Roger was perfect for
right where he was. There's no way he wanted to
interact no the idiots. So he was smarter than all
of us. He was smarter than all of us.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So this guy decides that he's going to extend Dave
Kane to four and then he's going to do four
to six, and then I was due to do six
to nine. He used the radio as a dating service.
He would oh oh, he dated Collin number nine. He
would invite the women up. They would get he'd tell
(22:51):
them they'd have to get there because I think the
station closed at five thirty. I think the office the
front office. So he said you got to get here
before five thirty. And then he would ask people to
go up and check out the woman and if she
was oh, lovely, somewhat decent, you could he would come
out and see them. But if not, he had a meeting,
(23:12):
something popped up, he couldn't get to them. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
This is the car kind of card leader.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yes, yes, this is I can't tell you that leader.
I had another one, Beach. I played strip poker or
strip trivia and a woman would come up and she
was just a listener and she was pretty open, even
on the radio at times, saying my husband travels a lot.
And she talked, she danced the line, but saying how
lonely she would get. She calls me once and says,
(23:41):
I just left your boss at a and she names
the hotel he had banged, and she's going on about
how terrible he is, and she's telling me this whole story,
and he walks in the fucking studio and you know
how like the calls, yeah, I'm playing music, but the
little speaker. Oh god, it was an awful day for me.
But but at the same time so entertaining. And it
(24:02):
tells you so much about these people, so much about
these people that there's this internal happiness that they just
don't have, and so they got to then shit on
everybody else. And that's not what you need to be
in life.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Radio's best people are its talent, because they're artists that
want to make the world a better place. Well, you
know Wes, you know how Wees is at the end
of the day. And you know, his show was his
heart coming through trying to make the world a better place.
A lot of people may have had complaints about the
fact that was too political, but Weise was like, dude,
(24:36):
I am doing what I can do to give back
and make the world a better place. That's who he's
always been, right, and that's the heart of an artist,
which is why he and I will always fight. It's
like we's you are so an artists, you have the
heart because that's what artists too. Artists want to just
use whatever their gifts are to make the world better.
You know. And sure, whether you agree with this politics
or not, you can't disagree with where his heart is.
(24:58):
And you know, like he said in the way Stock video,
he never grew into this conservative person who was bitter
and stopped having a heart. He just maintained that he
was the same hippie that he always was with those
ideals and can't we all just get along and love
each other? I mean, yeah, God, that's a horrible credo
to live by, isn't it. Whereas radio management, those are
(25:21):
not the best of the best. There's a great story
which I love the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy at
the end of that book, at the end of the
multiple books, they basically leave a planet and leave all
the salespeople behind, all the marketers, all the salespeople, because
they go you really add nothing to humanity. You know,
there's mental illness and there's mental unhealthiness, and it gets
conflated a lot in our society, and so the idea
(25:45):
that people confuse the two. Angela said, Look, environmental stuff
is huge in radio because it's a highly stressful industry.
Even if in fact everything's going right, if everything's going perfect,
you still have a highly stressful job on the levels
of air traffic controller. And my therapist did research and
found out about that, and I was very happy that
he did because he was a military PTSD specialist, and
(26:07):
so with that level of stress, it's already a high
level of stress that most human beings don't ever experience
at their jobs. That's if it's good. When radio does
bad stuff, then the stress level is just beyond human tolerate,
like it's it's it's it's abusive. When the stress level
is beyond and beyond just the normal level that radio has.
(26:28):
And she wanted to bring attention to it. So yes,
she believed it, just like you do ability that. Oh yeah,
they there needs to be better, better work in understanding
how to treat your employees better than co corporations do.
The line, the secrecy, the not caring, the building of bention,
not caring about people's families or whatever. That has a
(26:48):
massively adverse effect. And another reason why I'm pissed at
the nab ra a b or whatever, because it's a
huge talking point. It's a real thing. What happens in
this country today with all this horrific stuff is due
to environmental bs done by unthinking corporations and also a
horrible government, and it's affecting human beings. This is not
(27:10):
the way we should be. We shouldn't be living like this.
Therapists will tell you we're not meant to live like this.
This we're in fight or flight mode all the time,
and we're not on the Serengeti. There's not a tiger
trying to kill us. Yet we're at a state a
lot of us where we feel like there's a tiger
chasing us and we're going to lose our life. That's insane.
Since we're the most safe part of being an American
you could ever be, It's the safest time to be
(27:32):
an American. The History Channel to research on that. Yet
people like, yeah, and that is environmental and it's a travesty.
And radio was definitely playing its part and contributing to
that negative effense.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, you did do a not a mental health show,
but you did. What was the show that you started
that did go national for all? Odyssey? Was it about
suicide or suicide prevention?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's a show called I'm listening and I want to
give credit where quick is do Dave Richards, who is
perhaps you know, one of the best program directors in
the history of this bringing business and now he's the
vice president for Odyssey, he got he could you know,
I think he was really inspired by my story, which
was the story of my daughter Sarah, who had an
(28:18):
ex boyfriend died by suicide. And you know, he worked
with me every day as we tried to navigate this
in our family, like what are we going to do?
Because a lot of times suicide, you know, guilt of
survivor guilt is such a huge thing that then some
of those survivors will die by suicide too. And I
was so like, oh my god, and it wasn't nobody
(28:38):
really knew what to tell you. Therapists didn't really have
a lot of information to help you with a person
that was a suicide basically as a survivor of somebody
who died by suicide. And so Dave was so inspired
by this, and boy, you talk about I mean the
day just was a brilliant orchestrator and a guy that
deserves so much credit for my success. I wouldn't be
(28:58):
anything if not being able to who have worked with him.
And he's like, hey, bj I want to do this.
I know how much this means to you. Would you
like to host the show. I want to make a
national show. One day a year. We will do a
national show on all of our stations and we will
just get celebrities, guests, whatever. And boy, oh boy, did
everybody want to partake in at Musicians and athletes. So
(29:20):
many people wanted to speak out about it because they
all were touched by this all at some point in
their life, whether it be family members or them selves
dealing with, you know, trying to attempt suicide. And great
people like Michael Phelps. You know you've got people on
that level. You know all sorts of musicians and Lizzo
and I'm just starting to think few that were a
(29:41):
lot of rock people, you know, and it was wonderful.
It's now a gigantic, huge national thing and Carson Daley
is now the host. I guess being replaced by Carson Bailey,
that seems fair. I think he had I think he's
got a little bit more played than it. So we
get started. We started it in Seattle, and I'm proud
of it, Billy. It's one of the best things I
(30:02):
have done in my career. It was wonderful to start
a show to start a conversation about mental health, especially
for men. Men don't want to even talk about it
because you appear a week if we talk about mental
health in any way.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, to address that, I do want to give back
to the Carson Dally thing because there's a connection to
Carson Daily and then to wee'z and you. I have
had somebody come up to me recently who is a
podcast listener, and I've talked about going to therapy and
said I'm going and thank you for talking about it.
(30:38):
But over the years I had talked about being molested
as a kid, and the number of letters. I would
get like handwritten letters sometimes even in the age of
email and all, I would get these notes from people going, man,
I was like, you know, I just thought I was.
It's one of these things where I really believe that
(30:59):
we make a mistake, and this was something that we
did very well. I think we make a mistake that
you know, if let's say a kid admits that to
the parent hate so and so touched me and molested
me whatever, and the reaction is so big that you
feel like, as a kid, you can't process is that
you've caused this. And I made my mom cry. My
dad's all pissed off now and oh my god, this
(31:20):
person they're gonna kill him, and what are they? What
did I do? And I remember when I told this
story the other day, Sammy got left on the school
bus and I'm producing the show and I get a
call heys, we's there. I go, no, well, we have
his son. He stayed on the school bus and didn't
get off when he got to school and he was asleep.
So I call wa dab, He'll be fine, don't worry
(31:41):
about it. And then all of a sudden, I go, well,
I think they're calling Dorian because he knew what the
reaction would be. But if you did, don't over If
we don't overreact to things, I think we can navigate,
help navigate them, especially for young kids early on in life.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
But the.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Going back to the Carson Daily thing, I think that's
a Howard lapedis fine. And Howard was a good friend.
Oh yes, I'm pretty sure the late Howard Lapedes found Yes,
the late the late.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
How great Tom Green, Jimmy Kimmel, Oh my god, Howard
Lapedies was responsible for so much and also one of
his biggest mistakes is he would let me do compy
is comedy club.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
The only stuff that Howard.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
But yeah, Howard was really good at spotting talent.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
That's funny. Well, uh, Beach, I loved talking to you.
I would love to have you on every once in
a while if you've got time.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, I would love to. Man, if you're gonna do
any mental health stuff, yes I am. I'm on fire
for that. I think it's a big, big subject and
we can, you know, Bill and I can help because
men don't want to go or do it and think
it's weak, and it is to me one of the
best things that humanity has ever done is the behavioral sciences.
I know there are bad therapists out there. I get
(32:58):
it's like anything else you're gonna have to keep. Okay,
there are really bad therapists out there, but behavioral science
is tremendous. It is this to me. It just shows
humanity at its best. What they've done with behavioral science
and learning how we tick. It's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'll talk about anytime you want.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
All right, I'm gonna stay in touch with the beach.
Maybe we launched it as its own podcast.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I don't know, Hey, what what am I doing?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Not the time? We could do it just like this?
Yeah all right, yeah, well I'll reach out to you
and let's see if we can do.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I love that, Billy, I'm all about it. I love that.
Later this month, actually, there's a guy in Seattle it's
also podcasting about mental health, and uh, you know, I'm like, sure,
I'll come on your podcast all again, because usually men
don't talk about it. And so I'm a man that
is known in my area and they're like you do
you go there? Yeah, And it's so good for the
(33:55):
men to hear that because we we we suffer in silence.
We really do. And there's a guy named Terrence Reel
I'll just leave you with who talks about the psychological patriarchy,
which is different than the regular patriarchy. But basically, men
have been given such a raw deal that both men
and women in society have contributed to. We are capable
of so much more, but we have just been put
(34:17):
in this box that says, no, this is how you are.
You can show anger, you can show lust. Those are
the only emotions you get to have as a man.
And we're lett to believe it's just oh, it's wiring
well like, oh, I guess this is just how we're made.
But in reality that's so not true. And I love
people like Terrence Reel and other authors that have come
out and said, hey, guess what, everything you know about emotions,
(34:39):
you know they're completely wrong and mental health and so yes, Billy, let's.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Do it, brother, all right. I love it. I love it. Bjsha,
thank you for coming on. I love I. It's such
a fan, and it's such a fan over the years.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So I right back at you, Billy, I really you know,
especially I love hearing some of the stuff you did
early in your career. I don't think I knew that awesome.
I love the late night stuff for that. What are
you up? What do you do?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
What are you doing at this outrund? Yeah? Who's up?
And why? All right, Beach, I'll talk to you soon then.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Thanks brother.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
All right, there he goes BJ shay and we will
close it out. I love it when BJ gets all hot.
That's my favorite, very thoughtful. Right. It's not like anger
just to be Angry's anger for a purpose? Uh for
brother weez. It's nice to be important, but it's more
important to be nice. I'm Bill Moran. We'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I will hold to you. Don't know what to do,
I tur
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