Layers of Laura

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When your old career gives you lemons throwing some ice
mix in some vodka. Call it a podcast from the
Mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by
Victor Chrysler Dots Jeep Rahm. It's Billified, the Bill Moran Podcast. Well,

(00:28):
hello and welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thanks for getting your pot on, Thanks for telling a friend.
That's how we spread the word about the pirate ship. Oh,
we had a good one planned for today and then
plans fell through. What did you get yourself into, Laurel.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
My friends they have migraines and their maybe one is hungover.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
You know what, I don't blame them. And it was
early on a Sunday morning that we decided, I mean
early for Sunday to try to do this, and we
were going to do something. I was going to call
it the Great Wall of China Women's Perspective on Things.
But then I didn't want to cancel with you. I thought, well,
we'll do one on one with Laura. I get to
know Laura a little bit, and we'll probably kind of

(01:09):
go all over the place in topics and things and
just see how, yeah, see how it all goes. I
think I'll start here and I'll ask your opinion on this.
There's been controversy in the Olympics in the world of
women's box Oh yes, and it's an interesting thing. And
I was looking at this and I thought, boy, you
were here when Algeria Johnson, who is the Golden Gloves

(01:31):
two time champion from Rochester, who was trying out to
be an alternate on the women's team, and I would
love to get her perspective on this and hear what
she says. But Aman Khalif from Algeria was disqualified by
the IBA, the International Boxing Association, which is based in Russia,
and a lot of people don't give it much credit
or credence because of that. What they found out for

(01:55):
her and a Taiwanese boxer is that they have the
x y C homosome, which would make them biologically male. However,
so what I think happens instantly when we hear this
is everybody jumps on the situation of being almost like
a transgender playing male sports. In Algeria, you will wind

(02:17):
up in jail for being transgender. So this person isn't transgender.
There is something called DSD, and DSD stands for it's
kind of an umbrella condition for sexual You're just born
with both sexes, but it doesn't present so physically you're

(02:40):
presenting as let's say a male. But then it turns
out that you have xx chromosomes, you know, or as
a child or you're presenting as a woman, and even
through puberty, things don't fully develop gonads and things. So
therefore you know, physically you look like a woman. And
if you look at Amon in pictures outside of boxing,

(03:02):
I would think that Amon was a woman. Yep, I
really would, and there are because she is, yes, exactly
exactly she is, but she has the x Y chromosome.
And so that's become the big controversy on this. And
you know, I think this is a condition that isn't
one in a million. I think it's like one in
every fifteen hundred or two thousand people born have some

(03:26):
kind of DSD. And I don't really know, so the
International Olympic Committee won't reveal. I did a lot of research.
I spent way too much time on this.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, you have a passion for boxing.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Too, on boxing, but I also have a passion. I
also feel like when I saw this first right, and
I think that one of the things that as I've
gotten older. As I try not to do is have
knee jerk reactions to things. I try to go, well,
that's a knee jerk reaction. And I don't know about you,
but in my personal life, my knee jerk reactions have

(04:02):
set the fucking world on fire. Do you know what
I'm saying. I mean, I've had knee jerk reactions that
are just absolutely horrible. So for that, I think that
I can't. I don't want to do that. So and
I kept going, boy, there's got to be more to this,
because I can't imagine that we would have someone who
is physically a male now identifies as a female competing

(04:22):
at this level. It just doesn't seem that doesn't seem right.
So when I did the research and I was trying
to find out more about DSD and stuff, and it
says in much of the world this condition is often
discovered soon after birth, but if it goes undetected, a
family would have no reason to doubt the appearance of
a child's external anatomy. So if there's really no penis
or something's tucked inside that you wouldn't know. We don't

(04:45):
know about Khalif's condition. And there's another Taiwanese boxer Lynn
Yu Ting, who is also in the Olympics, that is
not that has the x y chromosome. So it means
so they failed the genetic test with the International boxing
I think the Olympics just test for testosterone levels. So

(05:10):
as you're watching all this, I go, boy, this is
how screwed up would it be to be raised female?
And then all of a sudden I find out that
your male biologically due to a chromosome. And I watched
some doctor try to explain this, and even he's saying,
it's so confusing and it's such a rare thing. So
I'll ask you, is it fair to let Khalif compete

(05:34):
against women? Now that we know it is?

Speaker 3 (05:40):
In my opinion, I have we know. I'm like very
gender equality, like all the rights. I actually, I truly
truly believe that she should be able to compete. It
is a matter of fact when people say like, oh,
well she wasn't you know if if there is a
transgender like there. I believe there's a transgender swimmer in

(06:03):
the Olympics.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Not one hundred percent sure, but I believe there is.
And when people have the controversy of like, oh, well
they were they were born male, they should not be
able to compete in the female I actually do agree
with that. Yeah, but Cleif was born this way, like, yes, Jet,
it is not her, she is. I mean, I actually

(06:31):
think it's a really good talking point for people like
and it's bringing it to a stage.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
That it's an interesting It's very interesting because I don't
think I wasn't very familiar with DSD. Yeah, right, I
didn't know. But there was a part of me that
I kept trying to come to a conclusion. Right, So
if I were a judge in this, what would be
my conclusion? And I kept thinking, we wouldn't want someone doping, yeah, right,

(07:01):
increasing something to give them an advantage. And we look
at Lance Armstrong and I would always argue with Lance Armstrong.
But he did it seven times. Yeah, and we know
there were other guys that were doing it too, and
they just didn't. I don't know what that is. I
don't know. I don't know what that is. It did
it give him an advantage? Probably clearly, but he did
it seven fucking times. It's amazing to me. Right, So

(07:25):
with this, I think, is it is it an advantage?
I would think it is because just scientifically speaking, and
I would say that I think that if I got
into the ring with Algeria Johnson, who was in here,
I would lose. I would lose. I don't know that
I would get knocked out, but I think she'd score
more points. Don't forget that boxing's also about points. So

(07:48):
and she was quick, and she's you know, younger and
more agile. But I go, boy that it feels like
an advantage in some way that we wouldn't allow was artificial.
So should we allow it here? And that's been my
hang up on this because I don't think there was.
I don't believe there was necessarily cheating. These are two

(08:09):
people that competed in the twenty twenty Olympics as well.
I don't think the intention was there. And I would say,
at least in Algeria, from what I understand, it's illegal
to be transgender. So there are some that are saying,
could she be being fed hormones to stay? Could this
be DSD? Did she start to present as a male
at puberty? Was it being kept quiet and we don't

(08:32):
want anybody to know because she'd ended up in jailing.
I don't know the answers to all these things. It's
interesting I would say this. In a combat sport, I
think the mentality is different. Yeah, and I would not
be surprised if there are women who have advanced, because
I believe that Ahman has advanced to the semi finals

(08:52):
the last I checked. I would think that there are
women that go, let me have a shot. Yeah, let
me have a shot, right, just that competitive to decide
of it. Let me have it.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
If you want to be the best, you gotta beat the.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Best, exactly. But I would also, I guess, in my argument,
think that I wouldn't want an unfair advantage in some way,
even biologically, so I would probably vote out. And I
do worry because I go mentally speaking, that's a hard
I don't know how your head wraps around that. But

(09:23):
I don't know the whole There's a lot we don't know. Story,
there's a story, and there's a lot we don't know. Now,
the Italian boxer who got punched in the face and
didn't even make it a quarter of the way through,
I think forty six seconds would be about a quarter
through one round, which is three minutes. I just said
she thought she was gonna get really really damaged from

(09:43):
the force of the punches.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
But she also has come out and said that she
apologized for her statement and she would embrace her if
she ran into.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
She said, I wish I had stopped and shook her hand,
and I'm sorry I brought up all this controversy.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
I mean, it's a tough sport to think you train
your whole life for this moment and then you feel
that you have an unfair advantage. Of course you're going
to act out with anger. But what's right and what's
wrong is so perspective on these things. But the fact
that Monk khalif that's the yeah, she was born female like,

(10:24):
even if she does have some male like testosterone and everything,
her birth certificate says female.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
I don't think there's any person that would listen when
you've looked at certain men that seem to be a
little more effeminate in their build right. There are some
men that are very pretty, right, and there are some
women that look a little more manly, and yet they're female. Well,
I mean, I'm not trying to be with you.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
No, no, I was just what do you think I thought?
Uh in the league of their own Marlahuch.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, exactly, and there are some that I mean, look
at some female sports, they're just right and we would say, okay,
So I don't know what the thing is. I don't
I'm not a fan of a person who decides to
transition genders being allowed to compete in the sport they identity.
Agree with that that feels a disadvantage to somebody who's
trained their entire lives.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
I do agree with that.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, And I know you're a little more on the
liberal side of life, and so I didn't want to
get to your perspective on them. Yeah, going, because it's
it's got to be tough in terms of with women,
I would think, and sometimes with this whole everybody's looking
for acceptance. Sometimes I think we've gone the pendulum swung

(11:41):
too far for acceptance that we should accept. But that
shouldn't be your whole identity.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yes, I agree with that. You know, we talked about
with the Pride like, yeah, you know, but I feel
very bad for the boxer mom because you know that
she's got a face criticism like outside of the ring too.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Just well now, I think more so than ever. But
I don't believe that this was a no. I just
got a text from somebody. I apologize. I got a
text from somebody's saying, you should have told me it
was just you two. I would have come in. I
would have. I thought it would be fun to get

(12:24):
to know Laura a little bit outside of the regular podcast,
and I wanted to start with that because it's in
the news and it's been a big point of controversy.
I don't know if controversy, and it was one of
these things that man, I just thought, I go, why,
there's got to be more to this story. So I
was given it like a day or two before I
actually looked at it, figuring something would come out, and

(12:47):
something did come out that I thought would make a
little more sense.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I mean, people are talking about it.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
No, no, I know. Yeah. My point is that I'm saying,
like in the knee jerk reaction to it, right in America,
we have this big we we have a controversy. We
have swimmers and different things. People that are competing who
were born male. It's clearly an advantage with testosterone and
build and size and all that stuff and strength and
then transitioning, and it just seems that seems unfair to women.

(13:16):
That isn't necessarily the case.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Here, and we have both talked about how you have
to look me on the headlines. And I will completely
admit when I first saw this, when it came out
and I thought this is a transgender female boxing, I
was like, no, that's so raw like men, just they
have more strength, like in general. And then yeah, more

(13:39):
exactly more came out and it was like, oh wow,
like give it me. I'm like, I have to rethink this.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
So when I was asked about it, I had somebody
say something to me and they were very upset. And
then my father called, what do you think of that?
And I said, and I wasn't saying much because I went, I,
this is a Middle Eastern box. There's no way this
is a transgender Yeah, is what I thought, okay, because

(14:05):
I just went, we know the laws in the Middle East.
It wasn't gonna happen. And I thought, boy, that that's strange.
And then I thought, could it be somebody who trains
in America but represents a different country. Is that possible?
And I thought, I'm gonna wait because I think there's
more coming out. There's got to be more. So I
waited a day or so, and that is The thing is,
I think that a lot of times we don't look

(14:26):
beyond the headlines and we get into our knee jerk
reaction and then things come completely I don't know, they've
come unraveled, and I feel like then you wind up
doing some backtracking and you're running and all this stuff.
And that's why I would always say to people, try
to not have have the knee jerk in your you know,
but try to contain it and go, Okay, this is

(14:47):
what I think, But what's really going on? Because I
have always had this thing and it was something that
sounds really really strange. But I believe when nothing makes sense,
something makes sense, which sounds she more on it, yeah, right,
but when nothing when I when you look at a
situation and go, well, why is it this way? You
got to dig deeper to go, ah, now it makes sense.

(15:08):
Now this makes a little more sense, and I think
here it makes it. It makes a little more sense.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
The whole story is like how people share memes on
Facebook without like the second that something comes out and
like people are sharing things about her, right, and then
you do you have to backtrack and it's like, I
don't know, like you're saying, knee jerk.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
I got a gift dropped off in our mailbox. Here,
you got a gift, yeah, baked bros. It's supposed to
help you sleep. Oh but so when I'm looking at this,
it's ten milligrams THC twenty milligrams CBD in per guming.
I thought so too. That's I I'm thinking to myself,

(15:52):
because my youngest son is coming to live with me,
that I've got to change my whole schedule and things. Right,
So I've been trying. I've been calling this my training camp.
This month is my training camp. And I have to
say that I must have been pretty fucking lazy lately

(16:13):
because I've accomplished way more in the past couple of
days just focusing on things than I have in my
in a long time. It's I don't know what happens.
There is something like I need. I am one of
these people that needs to have somewhat of a purpose.
And I feel like for the last year and a
half the podcast has been great all but I've been

(16:35):
a little bit rudderless yep, right, a little bit roudless
and so but the sleep thing is tough, Like I
I can't fall asleep some nights till like after midnight, right,
but I want to be getting up at five because
I'm thinking five is when I have to start getting
up to get him ready for school and get him out.
I don't like nasty. I don't like rough mornings.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yes he's fourteen. Yeah, no, I know you should not
have to be getting him up.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Well, here's here. I will agree, and I think that
that's a very very good point. And I will often
say that there has been a lack of backbone and
parenting as we talk about things now, because you'll hear
people say all the time, I don't have you know,
my kid is looking at TikTok all the time and
they've got their phone. You're the parent. You can take

(17:22):
the phone away, especially if you're paying for it. You
can do that.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
He's way easy to say that, harder to execute that.
With this, I feel like I'm walking into a very
different situation. We haven't lived under the same roof for
five years. We you're coming into He's coming into a
completely new situation. He's been very upset and angry with
me as to the conditions of his life for a

(17:47):
certain extent, and he's been in something called a Renaissance
school where he would go two days a week and
the rest was online. So you could sleep till nine,
you could sleep till ten as long as you got
your work done, and then you would go in for
two days a week and you would do your class instruction.
College college, you got it for. Not high school. This
was middle school. It was a Renaissance school. It was

(18:08):
a whole different thing. And he and it worked really
really well for him. He did. It worked well for him.
The traditional classroom structure. He hasn't really been in. And
so I'm thinking, how I'm going to have to start
getting up to go and to get him, to get
him going and just make the morning's easier.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Will be at Fairport?

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah right now, Yes, I was. I just don't know
that the other.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
I think school starts until like seven thirty.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, I'm probably right. No, No, I know that I'm
not saying. I'm saying for me because I like to
have I like slow morning. Yeah. I like to get
up and I like to do my weird shit and
my cold shower and my meditation and my stretching. Okay,
because I'm old and I have to go through a
stretching routine before I actually get moving, I like to
have my cup of coffee. I like to think about

(18:59):
things and then so that takes me like an hour, okay, right,
just to kind of get myself so, because I don't
want to be an asshole. Okay, you know that's my
biggest thing is I can be an asshole. And all
the time my older sons were grown up, I was
never home. Yeah, I was doing mornings. I was doing mornings.

(19:19):
I was out of the house by three o'clock in
the morning, four o'clock in the morning. So I I
never was around, uh to do those things. But anyway,
I know, so this this sleep stuff, I may try it.
You should, but I may try half.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Let me know how it goes.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I had never heard of these sleepy It's called
baked brothers, and this is called sleepy, is what it's called.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
I have got my mom some teach. The chocolates from
that one guy that we were going to interview, Dank
Dan remember, Okay, I don't know if heaven and I
ran into Okay, yes, I bought the chocolates. Didn't he
bring in like a cookie.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Year And I still haven't even be careful. It's your
fault that I ever heard it because said be careful.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah, because I had that quarter of like the rice
Krispy tree and I came here that yeah. Oh yeah,
but my mom I got her sleepy chocolates from him
and it didn't work for her.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
It didn't work really.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, okay, so let me know how.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, I'll let you know how these work because that
that that's interesting. My uh. One of my parents has
bought gummings and I think it has been really tempted
to try them, and I think wants to try them
because the other parent, my other I don't want to
say which which yeah, just because I think the for
their own privacy. But one parent has tried one, so

(20:41):
I think the other parents.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Like you've talked about it on the no I know,
I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
But I'm being a little more protective. You'll have to
go back to past episodes to find out who's who.
But I get this call, like I was going to
try it, but I can't get the ziplock open, Like
you know the bags that they come in you scissors? Well, okay,
but then what how do you reseal it? So my
thing was, well, then put it in these the zip

(21:05):
blocks I think are really they're almost like locked in
a way. So sometimes you do have to cut it
because they don't want kids getting into it. Yeah right,
it gives you a chance to you know, a kid
find something and then there you go. So I said,
cut it, put it in a separate ziplock. Yeah yeah.
And then I said, I'll call you if you do

(21:26):
it and tell you what do you think I'm going
to jump out a window or something. I don't know. No,
I don't think you can jump out of window. This
is though, This is why I say all the time,
I have never seen anything do a one eighty in
my life like marijuana. It went from you know, Jimmy
got high and Jimmy thought he was Superman and jumped
out of window. I heard that with acid. I heard

(21:48):
that with weed. As a kid. I heard all that right,
So you were like, fuck man, don't ever try it.
And now we've come to health benefits, help you sleep,
that are for you, all kinds of stuff turn your
mind find off. I don't know. Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I feel like weed has been prevalent since I was
in high school. I would say I had a lot
of friends smoke, and.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Well you grew up out in a more rural area too. Yeah,
I did too. I was in northern Dutchess County and
that I had a friend who grew it in between
a farmer's corse.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
Oh, I know people who grew in their backyard. Yeah,
in between the course talks to the farm.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
I used to laugh. So I was like, God, that
is so funny. That's very funny. All right, we'll take
a break and we'll get to a little bit more
about Laura, who was an organizer. And the weird part
is how do you make a career of that? But
you've done it? Yeah, And then single mom, we'll talk
about that and things that maybe guys need to know

(22:47):
when that women would like guys to know. Maybe maybe
that I think you'd be the perfect person for all that.
We'll get to all of it right after this. Cobblestone
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Connors and Ferris, your worker's comp journeys. Since you went
to Country Fest, don't come down. Wha man, I'm so

(24:48):
disappointed in you. I don't know, No, I don't know
country at all. I think this is number three on
the Billboard Hot Country Bottle of B Side. I really
I don't know. I don't know country music very well.
I'm not gonna say I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I do this post alone.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
It is not.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
There strikes in my mouth.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's it's called lives, Lives.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Lives, Okay, is it new? It got to yes, if
it got to the chorus, I haven't heard that.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, let's see if it gets the I figured you did.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
I can't sing anymore on here because coming yells on me.
It's only the other night. It's like, you gotta stop singing.
When I do the theme, that tune.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Seeing that tune in the singing and maybe may give
people an advantage. That that's the that I think that's
that's the part. It gives people an advantage. So Laura
is an organizer, and I will tell you as I'm
going through, I'm a very unorganized person. I like clean spaces.
But I like clean spaces like I do. But the

(26:05):
clean spaces are if you open a closet and very organized.
If you open my laundry room, not very organized. But
in my main part of the place, everything's neat clean.
But if you open some drawers and things not not
so well. And but not that I'm I'm not certainly
not looking for your help. I'm asking how does one

(26:26):
go from You went to school for journalism. You wanted
to be a what investigative reporter? I don't know why
I feel Yeah, I think you'd be very good at that.
I feel like, in a way, this is gonna sound weird.
And now that you said that helping people organize is
almost like documentary work in a way, you really find

(26:49):
out about these people. There's got to be some real
like you. It has to be interesting in a way, therapist, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
It is. I love what I do. And when I
say like, I get so involved with my clients, like
they open up to me. I hear stories. I get
to hear like right now I'm finishing up a job
with a ninety two year old woman and the stories
that she's telling me. I'm just like loving, you know,

(27:17):
but yeah, it's really really intricate, and I do. I say,
like one day I need to write a book because
what I get in everything and they learn to trust me,
And I think that's the most important part is like
I'm in their homes, Like it is so tough to

(27:38):
let someone in your house and like trust that they're
going to be like going through all your stuff and
doing right by yo.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
There's a lot of shame. Yeah, I think in or embarrassed, right,
So it's easy to close the closet door. I just
want to deal with that. But then the shit keeps
piling up.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Well, and it's funny because even like the gorgeous house
is that I'm in, you know, I do everything from
orders to working with senior citizens to what I say
is the everyday mom Like you walk into ninety percent
of your friend's houses and their first living room kitchen
is fine. It is. It's you go upstairs and you

(28:17):
open up the closets or you go down into the basement.
And I think it is it's shame that people like
are afraid to let people in and see like what
it is. Unorganized. I was at my best friend's house
yesterday and like, I just started like organizing her kids
playroom because you know, she shoves everything everyone does. But yeah,

(28:38):
it's tough and it's tough to keep up.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
So take me back, how does this? How does Laura
become an organizer that gets paid to help people?

Speaker 3 (28:48):
Okay, I mean.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
You're providing, you're providing value in a service. Yeah, that
really does. I would say that anybody who has kids,
when a place is clean and organized, everybody calmer. You know,
you feel calmer, you know where stuff is, you can
find it. I used to always say to my kids
all the time, I always hang up my keys. I

(29:09):
even do it here. And the reason I do that
is I would get really mad. Can you imagine. I
think I've mellowed a little bit over the years, but
I used to get really pissed, and I would be like,
you know, we're looking for shoes, We're looking for this,
or we're looking for that. And now these guys are six, seven, eight,
nine years old, and I'm going, fellas, you know what.

(29:29):
I hang up my keys every day. The reason I
do that is I've only got so much time in
the planet and I don't want to spend it looking
for my keys. Yeah, and that's why I do that.
But I do think that the organization just to be
able to find think of the frustration, Oh god, I
can't find the Scots tape to wrap the Christmas presents
and all of a sudden, you know, it could ruin
Christmas in a way. Yeah, I mean, I know it's

(29:51):
not silly, but it could send you to the fucking moon.
Yeah right, and if you just were organized. But take
me back. You go to school for journalism, you're writing
for a paper, I thought, yep.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
I wrote for a local newspaper for about a year.
I got really bored with covering like potholes in the
road and you know, just school board meetings.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Did you want to go bigger? Did you want to
go to a bigger market? Did you want to stay here?

Speaker 3 (30:16):
I wanted to go into sports journalism. And I met
my ex husband and I truly told him within a
few months of dating him, like, I'm giving up my
career for you because I was planning to move down
to Raleig Duram area. Yeah, because they were. I was.
Actually my old landlord wanted me to do like sorry

(30:40):
videos like before it was cool, like do a YouTube,
and so he helped me like create a videotape to
like send down to companies down there, and I had
and I had started talking with them. And then I
met my ex and his career was up here and
he sort of had like a really big goal and

(31:03):
I told him very early on, I was like, I
am giving up my career because I did not want
to do news. I didn't want to do the producing.
I didn't want to just be a news anchor, no
offense to like no, no, no, it was just local news,
was not I really liked like the more journalism aspect

(31:23):
of it. I ended up going into event planning and fundraising.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Do you ever regret not taking that chance to go
to one hundred?

Speaker 3 (31:33):
I still think about it to this day.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
You do, oh yeah, okay, yeah, not that? And why
why why do you regret it?

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Because I was really passionate about it, Like what was
in Raleigh?

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Was there a job in Raleigh?

Speaker 3 (31:48):
There was just more opportunity. They were hiring for the
younger demographic, like you know, people who had recently graduated
that didn't have all the experience, like if you wanted
to go pay it nothing, yeah, and if you wanted
to go here, like it really would have been producing
news for three years for the overnight shift, and I
was like, I know my personality, I'm not cut out

(32:11):
for that, Like I could.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Self awareness I think is really really important. And I
don't like hearing the regret thing because you're talking about
now a career where the guys always make fun of me,
that the barrier to entry is gone. But if you
wanted to do something, you could certainly do it now. Yeah,
And you could take those writing skills and you could
write a book or shoot a documentary on I mean, Jesus,

(32:36):
I think a reality show for you would be honest
to God now, and I don't even mean like take
your personal just you as an organizer would be really
interesting and to see and helpful.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
I've had people be like, you need to start doing
reels and you need to be more active.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Hard though, because it's time consuming.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
And time It's just like when I literally I'm like,
where is that on my values of like priority? Creating
tiktoks is not like my style. If I had somebody
come in and do things for me, I'm like great.
And I've actually had people be like, I'll barter with you,
I'll create reels for you if you can come organize

(33:20):
my kitchen, you know, And I have thought about, like,
am I willing to do something like that? But we'll say, yeah,
I just I do. I really really love I love writing.
It's I still write all the time. It's my outlet. Yeah,
so but yeah, I really I do. It's just that

(33:40):
wonder of what could I have done if I had
just sort of followed my own path right and done
what I really wanted to do, And I truly think
I would have been really good at it or gone far.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
I think often I mean you're young, thirty nine, No,
but I mean that you're young, yeah, by today's standards.
There's a lot of time left and your mom raising
kids and doing all that, and certainly you know that
gave you a different perspective. But I don't think you
have to necessarily give up. I don't know that I'd
be chasing it down to Raleig Durham, yeah at this point.

(34:17):
But at the same time, I do think that there
were things that you could do that would be really cool.
So you go into event planning with whom.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Nick Entertainment Company, So Nick and the nice Guy, Okay,
I was with them for five.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Years Okay, what is the event? What do they I
didn't know they did event planning. I just thought they
were the band.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
Well, there's much more. There was about two hundred musicians,
eight bands. So if you hired any of our bands,
we would help you plan out your events. Okay, So
I loved doing that. I also worked part time. While
I was doing that, I was still writing for the newspaper.

(34:55):
And I worked at Heritage Christian Services for five years.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
So what did you do there? What is I'm not
familiar with Heritage Christmas.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Heritage provide services for people with special needs and developmental disabilities.
So I was at a really low functioning house. My
residents didn't speak, didn't talk very aggressive. My mom hated
that I worked there because I would have residents just
punch me and so. But right out of college, you're

(35:23):
just trying to make money. So yeah, I did a
couple of different jobs. I was just a resident or
direct support professional. So then I went to I got
recruited actually to Easter Seals to do so. Easter Seals
is for people with disabilities, and I was the director

(35:45):
of fundraising there, an event planning but nonprofit work sixty
hours a week for thirty four thousand dollars. So I
hated that I traveled way too much. They had me
run the Rochester, Syracuse and Albany office.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, wow.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I was gone way too much. I would drive to
New York City to work with the development team down there,
and I got burnt out. And it was I was married,
we had our house in Webster, and we wanted kids,
and it was just like this is you know, my
ex traveled a lot too. So I sort of was like,

(36:32):
I'm going to quit working and going to start sort
of doing my own thing. And it's really started, as
I want to say, more the.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
You quit working, do your own thing, But how do
you like, how does it? How do you say to somebody,
pay me and I'll help you get your house organized?

Speaker 3 (36:56):
I had because it was more like a personal assistant
at Okay through I was always really involved in volunteer
work and Willmot Cancer Center. I was on their Young
Professionals Club, the Wishless Society. I was one of like
the founding members of that. I had a lot of

(37:19):
I ran in some groups of people that were well
off that like sort of knew my I I've always
had like that intricate I think doing the event planning.
Like you can tell, I'm organized. I can put things
together very well. And so I had people right away
be like, yeah, I want your help around my house

(37:40):
and doing things. And I got pregnant soon after, and
it was great because the first few years I could
only I could be home part time and just work
part time, and you know, I had my kids back
to back. And then I sort of started after I
had my second so seven years ago, sort of started
doing more of the helping people move, ok, And really

(38:03):
I loved that. I love like setting up a new
house and helping people create systems right away. Right, and
it just says snowball.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
So what happens during the pandemic? Good?

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Oh it sucked.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, right, but what do you do?

Speaker 3 (38:19):
I sat at home and did nothing for a few months.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Okay, were you still married during the Yeah?

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Okay, yeah, she was on it was on the outside.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
No, no, I understand.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
But like January twenty twenty, I had pretty much told
my ex I was not in love with him anymore.
And then COVID hit and so.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
We we Oh my god, So three months later, so
you were still under the same roof.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, and we were trying to work on it. We
were we had been in therapy since December twenty sixteen, okay,
and so it had been four years of therapy and
of trying and then it was just you know, still trying.
But it was more like business partnership during COVID.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Gotcha and I know we're trying to talk more about this.
It's the business side. No, no, no, But the therapy
did it work at all? I mean clearly right you
come to the conclusion, and so we could say no,
it didn't. But did it or were there things that
just never got resolved because somebody wasn't willing to put

(39:25):
in the work.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, I think there were some of the really outlying
issues never got.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Resolve. Yeah. Just as a thing there is I was
just reading something yesterday and I was going to bring
it up later to you. But there's some psychologists who
have done a study and they say that a six
second kiss or twenty second hug really brings the intimacy
back into a marriage. And they say it's kind of

(39:58):
funny to put it on your to do list, but
it is something, And they say it's long enough to
kind of ground you and say here's this other person
that I love, that I've committed to, and you're resting
in their presence in kind of a renewed way. And
I don't know. I mean I certainly, but there are
little things like that. It sounds weird, and you can,

(40:22):
you know, looking from the outside in now instead of
being on the inside out, you can see where these
sorts of things are important. Yeah, they are, and if
you're going to really make.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
A run for it, And I know this is gonna
sound weird. I don't think that it was ever love lost.
Like I could have hugged him and felt like love
towards him. There was no passion and I'm just someone
who is I have to have a passionate life like

(40:55):
and I don't think you can build that back up
like if it's law, you know, oh yeah, if it's not,
it's exactly it's either there or it's not. And it
was just.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Look, I think at this point, but you and he
have both moved on, The kids seem well adjusted, and
so so that's all going well, and then your busy
No no, no, I mean that's all well, right, I
mean that's all you can hope for laying in and
then you look at the business side, though, I think
I find it fascinating because there's got to be like

(41:25):
a lot of I don't know how you make it work.
I don't even make this work, so I mean shassing.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
But it's just funny because I'll work with people and
then like their mind just like explodes and they're like,
now I want you to do this, Now I want
you to do that. And what's supposed to be one
you know, garage job is turning into an entire house
and I have great Yes. I have had people just

(41:56):
offer to be like, can you I just employ you?
Can you just like run my house for me? And
I'm like, I don't want to do that because I.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Just to become like Alice and the Brady Bunch or something.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
No, but like just like a household manager. But like
that's it doesn't excite me as much like to be
at the same house over and over again. So I
like the challenge. And there's not a lot of people
that will do the horder houses that I do. But
I have like a whole team that I bring in people,

(42:31):
so I have someone's like my parents are looking to downsize.
I can truly come in bring in people that will
go through their house with me. That will take any
antiques to sell. Then that way the clients.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
So other people who have businesses that fit within your umbrella.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, but I like manage the whole. I manage it all.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
You're the point yep.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
And then you know, the client will get fifty percent
of the sale. So I just did this with like
they said, the ninety two year old, they were able
to sell twenty thousand dollars worth of stuff. So this
client is getting ten thousand dollars back, So that's covering
her bill for me plus some. But then I also
have gone through, I've done all the donations, so the other.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Fifty percent is you and and.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
The anti and then I bring I will get like
all the furniture donated through different causes. I bring in
the garbage people like the refuse removal. I have that
tomorrow at eight am. And then I've recommended a couple
different realtors for them to sell the house. And it's
sort of like her kids are all out of state

(43:45):
and so she doesn't have anyone to rely on, so
it's like, yeah, I'll take care of it. So yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
This is just one client. U huh, Is there a
waiting list of people.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
I book about three weeks out.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Your book three weeks.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
So I don't want to really get bigger than that
right now because I can't focus on it too much.
And you never know how long one job's going to take.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Okay, so let's say we're coming to the end of
one job. How do you know when to book something?

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Oh, I'll have other inquiries coming in and I'm you know, yeah,
So normally I'll go I do free consultations, So I'll
go and I'll look at a job and send that,
you know, like an email and a follow up, and
then I'll be like, all right, what's your schedule like
because a lot of these people, a lot of the
everyday moms are still working, so they're like, okay, I

(44:37):
can take a Thursday off in a few weeks for you.
So we'll do that. And then there's a lot of
times that after one session they trust me and I
can go back alone, you know, yeah, yeah right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
And most people nowadays have used to be the nanny cam.
But you've got the nest and you've got other things,
so it's it's as anybody ever talk to you through
a camera? Oh YEA out of you like, I love
what you're doing. What's fantastic. I would have never thought
to do that.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yeah, Jesse, I actually had a client and I rang
the doorbells. She didn't even tell me she wasn't going
to be home, and she was like talk to me
through her ring and was like, go in, go start
and here, I'll be home around like noon. Then she
came home at like two thirty and by the time
she got home, like her kitchen was already completed, and
she's like, this is great. I went and ran errands

(45:27):
all day when I came home, and you like put
it all together.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, so that is You've got a's a nice little
it's a nice thing he got. Yeah, right, you like it.
It sort of fits all the It seems to what's
the term check all the boxes? Right? Almost. You're making
many documentaries of people's lives and helping them kind of
organize it and go forward. You seem to be very empathic. Yeah,

(45:51):
I don't know, empathetic, I would say more than empathic.
Empathic is going to get into the weird. But the
empathetic if you were doing the easter seas and the
where you were going into some of the whole Heritage
Christmas Society and that stuff is not easy and it's
a choice.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Well even now I'm on the board for EBI Epilepsy
pre LID because it you know, just servicing people with
epilepsy and brain injuries. So that's sort of like my
volunteerism nowadays.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Gotcha right? And then the how do people get a
hold of you if they wanted? You know, somebody's listening
to Jesus man, I could really use some help. I mean,
is there is there a website?

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Is?

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, it's polished, home organized.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Actually right, we knew this.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
On you know dot com on Instagram. I It's funny
because people are always like, like I said, you need
to post more pictures. It's just so like not my priority.
So I don't know. I post maybe one picture of
before and afters a month, but a lot of times
it's I'm not just doing those pretty pantries or a closet,

(46:58):
you know, the ones that people see like to say,
but when you do a whole home clear out, or
when you're really helping hoarders or in a basement and
a order thing.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Because I'm thinking I was going to ask you, where
are most of your clients where like what area are
most of your clients? And I think I know the
answer to that, but which sounds snobby, I know, But
but you're talking about this is Look, if I if

(47:30):
I'm cutting on a budget, I'm going to organize my
own ship. Yeah right, But if I have means and
I'm doing a bunch of different things and I really
want this done and I want it done, well, I'm
going to go to you. And I think there's certain
I think we can all think of where we live,
what's you know, what town would have more? But the

(47:52):
hoarder stuff, I'm thinking order is Henrietta.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Actually, the one time that I have right is Henrietta.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Henrietta. I don't know why, but.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
I've done Webster, I've done ChIL.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
For hoarders, for hoarders, and when you say a hoarder,
what is a horder in your definition?

Speaker 3 (48:15):
When you can hardly move through the house when you
have again, it's a lot of elderly clients, so they
have Like the other day I had a shredding company
come in. They had taxes from nineteen seventy, like just
boxed upright all over.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yes, yeah, last year.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Yes, So when you had the depression generation, or if
you have people who immigrated, they were so yes, fearful
of losing things, of getting their identity stolen, that they
never it's just their basements in the guest rooms piled
up and like you can hardly walk around. I think

(48:57):
I told you the other day the animus. Yeah, yeah,
Like this woman had every single bathroom, three bathroom was
full of like animals, and it's just like what is
going on here? You know? But it's everywhere. There's a

(49:18):
lot of people. I mean, I have a client right
now who's thirty pregnant with her first baby, and there's
a hoarder and her husband is pretty much like this
has to stop.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Like would we say it's a mental I don't know,
it's absolutely.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
A mental illness. And a lot of them pair up
with ADHD. And I have like an ADHD certification to
work with clients.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
With ADS or how do you get that? And why
did you get that?

Speaker 3 (49:44):
I've done training because I have it as well, and
it really helps me understand the clients with ADHD and like,
you know, how did you get diagnosed?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
I once sat with like I think a social worker
or somebody counselor type, and they have me do a
questionnaire and then they prescribed. They go, yeah, you got
ADHD and and prescribe something. And I'm like, it felt
like it dulled me and I'd rather have I think
we look at ADHD sometimes wrong in that it's a gift.

(50:15):
Now I'm not going to say that it's not maddening
yep at some point, but if you can learn to harness,
you know, it can almost be a superpower if you
do it right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
It was through my doctors and it was literally filling
out a form and they're like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Do you do this? Do you do this?

Speaker 3 (50:35):
I have problems with computer work, hence why I'm never
posting on Instagram. I hate sending emails and everything, But
in terms of how it makes me work at my job,
it's great because I can bounce to different like areas.
I have anxiety as well, and I choose to medicate

(50:58):
for anxiety and not my ADHD because I actually do
think that my ADHD can help. But there are days
that I'm like, Okay, I really.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Working out helps tremendously WITHHD.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
And I'm at the gym every single day, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Right, that does. So what is the uh, why did
you get how do you get hd ADHD certified? What
is that?

Speaker 3 (51:22):
It's just that I have done like a training online
through so I'm NAPO certified, which is National Association for
Productivity and Organized There's so it's just like doing online
courses and everything, and then I've done like an ADHD
course with them, just you know, to help understand how

(51:44):
to work with clients with ADHD because everyone's different. Every
single person is different, and so that's why I say,
what works for one client's not going to work for
the next. So when I do my consultations, I really
try to like talk to the people, talk to them
about see the whole house. I actually love when I
get to meet husbands and kids because it is a

(52:05):
whole family effort.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Sure, yes it is. It can't be one person trying
to row the boat in one direction and everybody else
just weighing it down there. You know. Yeah, well so,
and we're going a little longer on this one topic,
but how do you get kids to buy in? You
have two sons, boys are a lot, there's a lot

(52:27):
of energy, there's a lot of NonStop I don't know,
like my guys, I think I've talked about this before.
We used to have something called the Geronimo mat because
finished basement and it was just a giant like futon
cover stuffed with foam and things for them to jump
off the stairs and scream Geronimo and get them on

(52:47):
the mat. It was the Geronimo mat, and it was
a way to burn off some energy. Yeah, you know
you if I could, I've had these guys, you know,
jumping through hoops of fire. And then James it comes
along and he's about eight years younger than the next. Yeah,
and this guy is like he wants it to be
part of everything with them, to the point where his
mom made the mistake of let's create a ball pit

(53:10):
for Jamison, you know, like you do. And then and
all of a sudden he's up at one and a
half two years old and firing these things and hitting
his brothers in the head. But they're everywhere, yes, like
you can't get And so everything was always a bit chaotic,
and I'm going, how do you get the kids to
buy in?

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Well, at that age, you got to give yourself a
little grace and understand kids are going to be kids.
But when they get older, giving your kids the power
to have some choices when they're like, oh, my kids
have way too many toys.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
What are we gonna get rid of it?

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Yes, what are we going to And that parents who
try and do it like on the side, like that
is so wrong, Like have your kids make the toys
and like talk to them about it. And a lot
of times the parents have a hard time. So they
will have me sit down with their kids and I'll
explain to them because I do conscious donating, so I
work with all nonprofits to get rid of things, So

(54:02):
toys will go to the hospitals, local schools if they
need stuff, And so I will talk to the kids
and like to have them feel like they can actually
do good for the community and makes them feel so empowered. Yeah,
and it'll be like the parents will be like I
cannot believe how much Carly decided to get rid of,

(54:27):
you know, like it's just really impressive.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah. I think a lot of times we underestimate kids,
and I think that kids are I just think underestimation
is really the big thing. And I think you're right,
you're giving them a better life right later on because
I can't tell you, like, I mean, I'm sure I

(54:51):
have ADHD. I think my mother has it I watched
my mother. She's like a one, like a duck going
around in a circle. At times it's like grank, grank rank.
Right now, I think it's not as fucking maddening, But
at the same time, when I see it with myself,
you know, procrastination will be another one. Yep. Yeah, is
that a big one with ADHD? Oh it is really, Yes,

(55:11):
that's your whole life. Whole life is like I should
really I got a lot to do.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
And then there's the ADHD paralysis when you're so overstimulated
and overwhelmed and everything that you just become a shell. Yeah,
and you can't move.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
So what do you do in that situation?

Speaker 3 (55:25):
You just have to I honestly, I say, like give
yourself grace a lot, like let yourself have twenty thirty
minutes where you just sit there and don't think or whatever.
And then I'm a big believe in timers, like set
a timer.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
That this is amazing.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
You know what I do set timers?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yeah, I never really talked about this A lot of times.
If I have a lot to do, and there's many
aspects of different things, I will set a timer for
an hour and five minutes, giving myself the five minute
almost warm up, and then I just work on something
for an hour and then I stop.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
See that's actually a long time. It's even for myself.
I'll do like set a forty minute timer. Yeah, and
by that I'm so deep in that when the forty
minute timer comes around, I just keep going, like, but yeah,
I have I'll go an.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Hour because and sometimes I keep going, especially when I'm
doing show prep, if I'm writing something. But then even
just like cleaning in things, Oh yeah, I try to
do that, So I'll go, all right, I give myself
an hour. I don't know why I like the hour
clean for hours.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
I just don't have the time.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yeah, but if I give myself that hour, and I'm
always amazed at how much you can actually get done
in an hour. And you know, otherwise, think of all
the I think of this, Think of all the hours
you sit just watching something Like I've been looking for
something to watch, right, and I've been watching a lot
of the Olympics. But then I'll look at Peacock at

(56:50):
night and I've seen some of this stuff already during
the day. So I started to watch Inventing Anna.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Oh my god. Yeah, I've watched.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
So last I'm already out. I'm three episodes in, I go,
I got it. I'm bored.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
I don't know why I watched one episode years ago.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yeah, I watched like handle it. Yeah I watched the
third like three episodes, but I went. You spend three
hours practically all the shit you could have gotten done,
and then I get mad at myself and that sort
of thing. So I'm not a big binge watcher because
of that. But I do think the timers are really helpful.
That's interesting. I didn't know. Yeah, probably twenty minutes probably

(57:29):
would be better, but I go a lot of times,
give me an hour to really try to think and
bring it out and look at different angles.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Of to start. It's baby stops.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yea too.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
So when I'm working with clients, like give yourself twenty minutes,
like because a lot of times I'll give them homework
because I'm like, you have to go through this pile.
You don't want to pay me my hourly rate while
you sit here and go through this pile, like sat
a timer for twenty minutes and just focus on this
for twenty minutes, and then a lot of times they
will just keep going.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Well, that's a really good idea, because you know, with
my son coming to live with me, I have piles
of shit that sometimes I can't figure out what to
do with. So and then I go, I gotta get
through that, I gotta do this, I gotta do this,
and I don't do anything.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
And then do you just move it to a different
pile and like you do something and reshuffle. It's like
you have adhdah.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
All right, wonderful, All right, Well go to what is it?

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Polish home organized.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Polish home organizing. We'll take a moment. I want to
get into some other things with you and one of
them and I'm I think I know the answer, but
I think this will be sort of interesting because it
bothers me deeply. Slut shaming and I'll just ask you
about it being growing up today, divorce right and now

(58:50):
in a relationship. But I'm seeing it play out in
different arenas right now, and I find it disturbing. I
think it's wrong and unfair. But we'll get those are
my opinions. I don't want to paint the jury here.
I'm assuming it's probably yours as well. We'll get to
all that right after this. Leo says, delicious baked zucchini
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Speaker 2 (59:46):
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Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Kim see you sterr energy drink watching.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
That I say go along to night.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
And chances are.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Used to make a lot of fun. Why I think
super talent. It's super great guitarists. But I always made
fun of I go you went to country because it
was easy and you're from Australia. But I don't know
that that's necessarily true. I'll admit when I think I'm wrong.
I really do. I think that. I think he's super talented,
great guitarist. Yes, and I know it's sort of an

(01:01:14):
eighties rocker, A little.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Bit played when we want to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
This is a getting busy counting song.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
You don't want to talk about a man who's got
a little feminine energy though, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Yeah, I would say, I mean smaller build.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
Right, small long hair, like, really pretty facial features.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Yeah, he was fantastic, fantastic love.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
I think probably just a really really genuine person. Oh yeah,
that's the vibe I get from that guy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
The crowd interaction. He was walking by, high fiving people.
He gives up the guitar at every show, right, I
know somebody who got the guitar he was just afterwards
he was jumping down taking pic of selfies with people.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
I mean I always thought this. I always thought Nascar,
if you go back and say early two thousands, Nascar
and country were very very grateful to their fans, really
almost put the fan in the spotlight. And I felt
much more so than rock and roll, which was fuck
you attitude, but much more so like even now the

(01:02:34):
Stones in their eighties are thanking everybody for coming out
and thanks for being here, you know. But I felt
like country artists, I always thought, were a little more
appreciative of their fans and gave, gave of themselves, would
stay and sign extra, would do stuff now and not
always the case. I remember, uh you know, I always

(01:02:57):
think this, like, especially when you're famous, you meet somebody famous,
you remember what they said to you, you remember what
they were wearing, you remember everything. But if you're that person,
it's just yeah, it's a job. It's part of your day.
Like if you go and watch and I've watched it
several times, the Last Dance with Michael Jordan, there's a

(01:03:18):
point where they talk about Jordan before every game would
go and talk to people and spend time and really
try sick kids, families, give them, you know, five ten
minutes that was really there and really be in that
moment and then go out. I go, that's a demand
on your time. You're going to play a game, you're
about to perform. And I know lots of people who

(01:03:40):
perform many different things. They want to get in their
own headspace. They need that time. They don't want to
that guy. You know. So I remember being backstage at
a show with Faith Hill. Oh and it was like
standing next to a cardboard cutout. Yeah, it was like,
you know, click like that. And then I've been with
others that were you know, chat with you and all

(01:04:00):
this stuff and I think Kelly Clarkson would have talked
to you forever. Like we were talking and she was
really sweet and they're like, all right, next next, you
gotta move and she and Ed Sheeran was one that was.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
What's the favorite of mine?

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Really?

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
He is on my mussy less.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Yeah, I saw Ed Sheeran and you know, there's no band.
Everything's with him and there's some so he's pushing pedals
and things. He dropped the water bottle and went to
step on a pedal and it hit He hit the
water bottle, so we had to kick it out of
the way. We were very close. I love seeing little mistakes,
you know, but he was It was another quick thing,
you know. He didn't really talk to or anything. In

(01:04:38):
and out, in and out, in and out. Talk to
me about this I see With Kamala Harris now running
for President of the United States, I believe today or
tomorrow she'll be announcing who her VP VP is going
to be. I'm thinking Mark Kelly from Arizona to me
is like the perfect person for the job. I don't
know that that's going to be the person, but I

(01:04:59):
think would be Greig.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
He's from a gotta get a swing state.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
That's what I'm saying. You got a swing state there,
and you know, and certainly Pennsylvania and we all know
that the governor there. But I just think Mark Kelly
is like, boy, that's a solid guy right there. Yeah.
But the slut shaming that was going on that I
was seeing, and you know, even Judge Joe Brown talking
about fucked your way through Howard and this and that,

(01:05:24):
and I went, boy, this it. Take it away from politics,
take it to just being a woman. Is that something
that you hear a lot You're you're worried you ever
worried about?

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
I think you hear it a lot, hear a lot, Yeah,
But I don't think you hear it to your face.
It's just people say it behind you, behind your back.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Is it said about men among women? Do women say
things like yeah, he's a real he's a real whore.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Now with that Facebook website, yes, I mean you can
see things and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Do you see things on it? And I feel like,
and tell me if I'm wrong on this. If a
woman hears that a guy is a player, gets around,
sleeps with a lot of women, I sometimes feel like
there are certain women that see that as a challenge.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
How could it be a challenge when he puts out
for anyone.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Well, not a challenge to keep him from doing that.
I'm gonna be the one that he's gonna sell out
that I'm gonna break that stallion. Yeah right, I'm gonna
I'm gonna corral this horse.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Why would you even want to put up with that?
But I do think it's a double standard.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
It does seem like a double standard if men.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Like go around and hook up with people and versus
a girl. And I mean it's funny because yes, I
was single for two and a half years, and when
I say, like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Single after being married, yep, right, so now.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
You're married for ten years. I was with him for thirteen.
But I was like, yeah, I dated around that. When
I say I dated, that does not mean I slept
with someone like you know, but I got a lot
of like negative looks from people, or there were rumors

(01:07:16):
going around that there was different cars in my driveway,
even among women.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Yes, so women slut shame.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Each other, Yeah, absolutely, And I was. I think it's
I definitely think there's a part of jealousy with it.
Especially I'm very open that I dated a lot of
younger guys like it was just I have a very
young energy. I know I do, and I think people
were just like disgusted by that. Really yeah, and I

(01:07:46):
mean ten years younger.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
It's not like twenty nine. Yeah, yeah, I thought that.
I thought I heard twenty five in there. There's one
twenty five cradle over what's happening?

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
There is one twenty five year old. And I got
it off with him because he got a d w
I and he was like, well, I can't drive, so
you would have to come and pick me up. I'm like,
I'm not, okay, I'm not gonna like be driving you around, Allen.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Sorry that with your own kids.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
No, But yeah, I do think that women are very
superficial about it. But then they also will go and
listen to podcasts about like women who sleep around and
you know, watch all these stories.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Those Is it empowering to see to hear a story
like that when you say, listen to these things or are
they judgmental in a way or do you think that
it's like it's empowering?

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
I like, So, my favorite podcast besides Billified, Yes, is
called Girls Gotta Eat and it's two women. They've been
doing it for six years. I left in every single week,
and they hate slut shaming. They talk about like sex,
they talk about their lives, the building a business of
two solo women, not marrying, no kids, and everything, and

(01:09:10):
they're both like forty. They are very open about like, yeah,
they've slept with a lot of people. But women like
admire them, I think because they are so open about
these things and they just sort of try to break
the mold. But they will be very They talk a
lot about how men get like this pass on if

(01:09:33):
you've slept with one hundred women, it's like, oh whatever,
and no, like who.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
It's not discussing well, it's would you break it down?
Like if that breaks down that way, then it shouldn't
be the other way as well. And I would think
that it's also somewhat empowering for women. And I think
when you've been in a long term relationship, to know
that you're still attractive to other people is a big thing.
I think that women at a certain age from and

(01:10:02):
I don't know what the age would be, but probably
around my age or so, you start to feel invisible,
as though you're not seen and stuff. So when you
go out I think that one of the great things
for women who find themselves single again. Is the celebration
of Mills in a sense? No, And I know that
sounds funny, but I don't mean that in a joky way.

(01:10:25):
I think it gives some power back to you. You know, Hey,
there's a hot milf over there or whatever. The bad
part is that you don't want the reputation. And I'll
tell you, like, I know people, and I've asked about
certain stories that I've heard about them and they're not true.
Oh yeah, and that has to be really tough, well
for a woman, because it's tearing down the very character.

(01:10:49):
So now we're not looking at you know, it would
be like, let's take it to back to politics for
a second. I would say, don't address these things, and
why are we gonna Let's focus on what in politics
they'll call kitchen table issues. Get down to the brass fat.
I don't give a shit who you spread your legs
for or who you stuck your penis. That's none of

(01:11:11):
my business. But I want to know what are you
going to do on this issue? Where do you stand?
How do you fix it? What do we do?

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
It shows you who your friends are.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
It shows you who your friends are. That's an interesting statement.
Why do you say that?

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
Because you know, I had people who were close friends
that were spreading rumors about me or saying things to
my ex husband, and it got back to me like,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Why would they do that?

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
I think I think I was one of my first
friends to go through a divorce.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Okay, and.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
It turned into gossip. I mean, women love Back when
we were talking about binge watching TV shows, Sure, I
can't stand all these shows, but like the Real Housewives
of the Real those that stuff, like all the Bravos,
I have never watched a single of those shows. Forty
year old women are obsessed with those shows, and I

(01:12:07):
think they like to build up the drama. How we
joke around about the Real Housewifs of Webster like they
women love drama for some reason, and so if you
can insert yourself or a person that you know into
the drama, why not.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
It's sort of like its reality.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Yeah, and sometimes it can be a little white lie
that you're just trying to push. I think, like, oh,
is this actually true? Had anyone come to me and
ask me like point blank about stories, I would tell
the truth, But like, instead I hear that there's like
a little circle of maybe one thing that happened, and
then you know, it's the game of telephone and it's snowballs.

(01:12:47):
It's like, that's actually not true at all, but you're
not even coming to me. So I'm just like whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
I remember somewhere along the line hearing a story about
a woman, attractive woman, which I always thought was you know,
me and founder just dating, single, doing what any guy
would do or something. And I think if I even
brought this up to a person today, they would say

(01:13:13):
I ran into her family or something. And all I
could think about was the story So and so told
us about. And I'm like, God, yeah, because it diminishes
who was the person. This is why I like I
always I always will say. I used to say to
my kids when they were little, the older boys, I
would tease them and go, no, we're birthdays. We're going

(01:13:35):
to celebrate the day you hit do something great, hit
a home run, do whatever, well it. My point is
being born is nothing that everybody else here hasn't done. Right.
Every one of us was born, so we're going to
celebrate you. Well, let's celebrate something, because your identity shouldn't
be I'm born and I'm here that's it, right, And

(01:13:58):
my identity shouldn't be I'm whatever, I'm gay, I'm transgender.
You can be gay, And I think that for many,
many years with the closeted stuff, we learn how bad
that is and and the horrible things that people suffered
when someone suspected or or someone was brave enough to
come out, and how they were treated and shunned or whatever. Uh,

(01:14:21):
that's all bad stuff. So now, okay, good, we've made
progress in that. But just because you're gay, who cares?

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Yeah, right. But on the other side, maybe you're a
doctor who invented a new type of surgery and you're
saving lives. Maybe you're a researcher and you did that.
I want to hear it. Yes, I don't care who
you sleep with. Ye, But yet we declare when we
come to the door who we sleep with and what
our pronouns are and all that stuff, and that to
me feels like it be who you want to be. Yeah,

(01:14:52):
that's fine.

Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
And it's then be great. Yeah, Because like going through
the divorce and sort of just like living sort of
a more free life for a couple of years, I
still was such a slut. I was still like running
my business, taking out my house, taking care of my kids.

(01:15:13):
And it's funny because I was very open that I
did not want a serious relationship. I was like, I
have always been in my relationships, and so I would
tell that like, I was not on the apps, I
wasn't looking for anything. I would meet people out and
about or I would have friends who would be like, hey,
I have a guy that I want you to meet.

(01:15:34):
I would go out with this person a couple of
times and be like, it's not going to go anywhere.
And the night that I met Joe, I very much
said I don't I don't date. I again, single mom,
run a business, have two kids, like keep up my house,
I am very involved in the community. I do not

(01:15:54):
have time to date, like and he just won me over.
And I don't know how he talks about this all
the time. I was like, it was just you. I
can't explain it. But other people in my circle will
constantly tell him like, yeah, she did not I did
not want a serious relationship. So I mean, yes, I dated,

(01:16:17):
I hooked around, I left, did you, But like, I
was not.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
What did you learn about yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
To just not settle for anything?

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Not just settle for anything, Yeah, did you Because a
lot of times it sounds like you were very young
when you got into your marriage. And I was twenty
two twenty two when you met when you met him,
how when you got married twenty four, twenty five, twenty five,
still really young, right?

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
Yeah? And we bought a house together after nine months.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Right, So you don't I mean, I don't know. I
can't say for women, right, Women, I think it's been
proven scientifically mature faster than men. I've always kind of
but even with my own sons, Like you know, the
frontal cortex of your brain, the decision making, your rationale,
all that, it doesn't really close until you're twenty five.

(01:17:08):
That's when it's fully developed, so you're a bit of
a neanderthal. Before that, you're gonna be making dumb decisions.
Believe me, I've lived through all. My one son and
I have had more, I don't want to say issues,
but adventures, nothing bad, nothing outrageous. But we just had
an ATV trip then he rolled the fucking thing with me,
and I still have a stiff neck. You know, it's

(01:17:29):
like god damn. But with women, I always think they're
you know, a little more mature but are you at
twenty five do you feel that way? Did you know
yourself enough? Did you know what you like and know
what you don't like and then to give yourself that opportunity,
it's almost a gift.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):
Yeah. I I was very much in love with my ax,
like no, I was. But do I think I knew
exactly what I wanted in life? Absolutely? Like I think,
you know, my sister got married at twenty and had
her first kid at twenty three, and like, I just
think that I was what people felt like, Yeah, you know.

(01:18:10):
And then as I got older, I felt like I
started giving myself more life experiences. Like growing up, I
just I didn't really see the world. I didn't educate
myself as much as I started to in my older life,
and being like god, life is so short, Like you
have to be passionate about things. You have to like

(01:18:31):
live life to your fullest, like you know, my favorite
guy I share my birthday with, live every day like
it's your birthday. Yeah, Like I that is so me.
And I just don't want to live with any regrets.
And I mean with honestly everything going on right now.

(01:18:52):
I'm like, mom, this is why I live the way
that I live because I just you never know how
your life is going to her now, you are not
guaranteed tomorrow. Like, you have to be happy. You have
to just I don't want to go to sleep and
be like I should have done this today, I should
have stayed in that marriage, like because that was the

(01:19:15):
right thing or the you know, Catholic thing to do.
But you just do what makes her so happy. I
don't know, Like I well.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
I think that there's I would say to that, in
any moment, you should take whatever you're deciding to do,
do whatever's going to make you feel happiest in that moment,
and then do it to the fullest without any concern
for the outcome. And usually if you do that, it's

(01:19:45):
going to turn out. Right. Do you find yourself like
a spiritual person in a way.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
I'm spiritual, I'm not religious, not religious.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
I think religion has sort of screwed the world up.
I think that, you know, if you take Catholicism in
the fact that even I was just having this conversation
with my dad that you know, masturbation is a terrible
thing and you're going to go to hell from masturbating.
And at every tree several times no, no, no, But my
point is, especially for young men, right, that's a big deal.

(01:20:13):
But I think, boy, that the shame and the guilt
and the stuff that we suppress and oh my god,
now we're keeping secrets and we can't be who we are.
And I think that, you know, talking about things and
coming out and stuff is good. But I also think
to your point where we don't know when it's going
to end. But I do think you are the creator

(01:20:35):
of your own destiny. I really am a believer in that,
and I think in order to do that, you have
to be happy. I think, because when you're miserable, you're
gonna stay sucked there.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Yes, when you say they're shame like people when you
say you're divorced. But I'm so sorry. I was like why,
Like I did have it was a great chapter, Like
I wasn't fully happy, but like there's so much things
that could be worse. Like, you know, we both are stable,
we have two kids who are healthy and loving, and

(01:21:07):
we are both so much happier now. So like, would
you rather stay in a subpar marriage for forty years
and not really feel fulfilled? Like or are you gonna
go create that destiny for yourself and go and find
what really makes you feel alive.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
And well, I was going to ask you this, and
we'll get into we'll do one more segment. We're talking
about what men may need to know. But I was
just gonna say, what's attractive to you? And I think
that I think we all know people that men and

(01:21:47):
women find attractive. And I don't mean that in terms
of necessarily a sexual way. There's an energy about a person.
There's a confidence, confidence. I was gonna say secure area
to be confidence was the word I was searching for
a boy. That's all a's sleeking in there, but the confidence,
and there's just something about that person that you know

(01:22:10):
guys like to be their friend if it's a guy,
and women are attracted to them in different ways potentially.
But I would say that in order to do that,
I think you have to go about doing your own
thing and not worrying about it. And too many times,
with social media and everything, we worry so much about

(01:22:32):
other people. And I think that that it's not just
a teenage thing I or pretty pubescent. I think it
is a lifelong thing. I remember watching my grandmother. She
had two sisters who never married. They lived together. And
I remember when they were all in their late seventies

(01:22:52):
early eighties, they were together and they were arguing and
I was like, oh my god, like just like sisters,
you know, and I'm we never grow up, we just
grow old. Yeah, And I think that when we start living,
like you try to do things for attention for other people,
and certainly a podcast is going to be an attention game.
But I think if you're just doing your thing, and

(01:23:15):
that's what people are going to find attractive, the confidence
in it always this worry and looking in that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:21):
We all know that social media is hororfic, Like I
hate hearing my nieces talk about it. And God, the
one couple that I know that's the most miserable, like
cheating couple. They're the ones who are posting the selfies
every day.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
They are.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
It's that is I don't know when people compare themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
My favorite new commercial is right now, the Progressive commercial.
It's a progressive commercial where a guy has his camper
and they're talking about bundling your camper in this and
he's standing in this spot overlooking this beautiful lake and
he's talking to Flow for progressive or whatever, and she's
like and he goes, yeah, well she said you better.
He goes, yeah, I better do that before people discover

(01:24:07):
this place. And then all of a sudden, you hear
are you done? And then it's this girl who walks
out to the edge overlooking the cliff and she has
a selfie stick in her phone now and she says, hey,
fam I'm just here in this beautiful spot manifesting right,
And I go, God, damn it, that is so fucking
spot on. Yes, because that's how we live. We're doing

(01:24:30):
it for other people's approval, absolutely in some way. And
I think if you stop living for other people's approval,
do what you really want to do, that's what's going
to be most attractive.

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
I think being authentic like you're and that is why
I will never I don't have a filter. I am
who I am. I am not apologetic, like even when
I fuck up, like I own up to edge, you know.
But yeah, I think that can be the most attractive
quality in someone, to the.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
Point of sucking up. I think it's easier said than done.
And certainly I would say that there are things in
my life well, if they hadn't done this, I wouldn't
be And I think if you really step back and
be honest. Everything that happens to you is your fault
in some way or another. Sure you can justify it,

(01:25:20):
and you can blame somebody else, but really it was
something you did. And I'm a big believer in the
law of attraction, and in some way you pulled that
in in your thought, in your subconscious thought, in some way.
And I know that that is something that doesn't always
sit well with people because they go, ah, it's not
my fault that, okay. And I'm not going to argue
with you, because I in my own life can give

(01:25:41):
you probably twenty different examples. One I think I told
you to during a break right, Well, what did I there?
Somewhere somehow I played a part in that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
I agree with you on some terms but not in others,
Like you know, a car crash like things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
I know that, and I know that's where people get
get weird. And there is something like I would take
it to as smaller. For an example, you ever get
up in the morning and you're sort of in a
grumpy mood and you stub your toe, what the fuck yeah?
And then all of a sudden you go in and
maybe for a woman you're curling your hair and you
burn your neck, and then you're going in your you

(01:26:23):
got your nice shirt on, your finally heading out. It's
been a rough morning. You get in the car, you've
got your yetty fill of coffee and the next thing
you know, you didn't put the lid on tight enough
and it spills all over. There's something you're doing that's
a momentum. That's building, building, building, And the next thing
you know, you're in a car accident. And that's come.
Do you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
If it's not your fault.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
Right, no, somebody pulled out for me and it isn't
and we have but New York state's a no fault state,
I believe when it comes in car accident, so you
get fucked. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, and I don't.
I don't know. Let's take a break. We'll do one
more short one. And I appreciate all the time you're
giving me. I think it's been really interesting. Either. There's
layers to lor I men know about. Look gets all

(01:27:02):
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(01:28:09):
b yob today Monday. That's right, means bring your own bottle. Now,
most restaurants are going to charge you from twenty five
to thirty five dollars for you to bring in your
own wine. But on Mondays at Jojo Bista and Wine Bar,
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(01:28:32):
just me the perfect way to enjoy these wines and
not have to clean the kitchen. Mondays b yob only
at Jojo Let's go girls, they had to do it.
This song's gonna be what twenty something years old now? Yeah,

(01:28:57):
I don't know when ear it came out.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
To Syracuse, Sarah. I knew so many people who went.
I think I was out of town.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Yeah, she had a great uh husband.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
That her husband was a lot warer.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Mutt Lang. Mutt Lang, Yeah, Mutt Lang is a famous
rock producer. Okay did like I think he did Pyromania
for def Leppard, like really really highly sought after and
I think produced her stuff but then slept with the
nanny or something yeah, something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:38):
Did I think she had one baby?

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
And I think they said she like did it right
where she went hiding when she got pregnant, like had
the baby and then came back and was great back
and being.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
A probably yeah, and and and I wouldn't be surprised
if in some way, And I don't know this for
a fact, but mutt Lang was certainly he was certainly
pulling the strings to a certain extent. I mean, she's
super talented, yeah, but he he was producing all that stuff.
And I think, yeah, and I think he knew what
buttons to push and that sort of thing. And uh,

(01:30:10):
I don't know that she would. I don't know. Maybe
he made the career a little bit better than one
of men. But you know, he was m lang.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Lang.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
He had all the he had. I slept with the nanny.
I just saw something where it was Bill Burr. It's
an old Bill Burr piece and it fucking made me laugh.
And he's going on about he well, since we were
talking about sluts, He's like, you know, why don't we
I'm really sick of seeing all these big divorce settlements.
I'm tired of it. You know, what about these these

(01:30:44):
sluts that that ruined these things, and he takes Arnold Schwarzenegger.
And it was before the Arnold documentary or docuseries that's
on Netflix, which I find fascinating the confidence that Arnold had.
I mean, when he walks into some Italian directors thing,
he goes, why do you have such a big desk
for a little man? And the guy basically throws him
out and all this shit, and he's like, you know,

(01:31:08):
he's Arnold. He's like, he fucks the maid, but the
maid had to come on to him in some way,
and she's not even that attractive. And I know that
this is kind of right blaming the victims kind of thing,
but his point is he's like, look, he goes, I
want somebody to go to Austria and learn the language,
build up a bunch of muscles, become a huge actor

(01:31:28):
over there, and then be governor. Okay, and then and
then tell me he needs to lose half his shit
because he did all that. He's a great man. He
did this, and he fucked the maid. Where's the slut?
She's the slut? Why do we do It's done in
a very comedic way, but I go, yeah, interesting, interesting,
I thought, let's take the slut stuff out of it.

(01:31:51):
That's not fair. It takes two to tango, certainly, But
what are some things that men Let's say, we'll talk
from more of the divorce perspective, right, Uh, what do
men need to what? What? What do you want men
to know? What should men know about a single mom?

(01:32:13):
If you're going to date a single mom, how do
you kind of ride that balance, that throttle of you know,
giving her enough room and not in this because you know,
I think there's something about you know, texting and getting
these messages that kind of builds the butterflies.

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I definitely think though the
like putting it out there, letting someone know that you're
thinking of them is so kind. Like it's definitely gonna
help someone open up to you a little bit more
at first. But as like a mom, like I had

(01:32:51):
to have people understand like I do not have a
lot of free time, you know, between the kids and
business and everything. You know, I maybe had one free
night a week, like, and a lot of times going
on going on a date was not my priority. I

(01:33:18):
get squeezy in a few weeks. I mean there are
times that I went on two dates and one night.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
Really yeah, how did that work?

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
I would maybe?

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
What if one date went so well and you didn't
want it to end.

Speaker 3 (01:33:34):
They say that you should never have more than like
two drinks on a first date, So all right, I
got you always leave them wanting a little more, so
cut it off after an hour and a half, even
if it's going well.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
Really okay, I don't know any of.

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
This stuff, but most of the dates sucked.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
Sucked why?

Speaker 3 (01:33:54):
I don't know. Personally, I am such a you have
to have chemistry, Like I don't care. You can be
the best looking guy in the world, but if you
just if I don't feel that energy with you, then
it's not gonna what What?

Speaker 2 (01:34:11):
What are mistakes that guys make? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
Being too cocky? There's such a difference between cockiness and confidence. Like,
I love confidence. Cockiness is horrible treating other people with respect.
I left a date one time because the guy was
like mocking our waitress and I was like not going
to deal with that, Like, I think that's horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
On a first date. He did that? Yeah? Interesting?

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
Yeah, I think I can think of someone specifically. There
was somebody who like reached out to me in Instagram
and was like, hey, I saw you from a friend's
photo like that you were tagged, and like, I would
love to take you out. Thank you. That's very kind,
but not really interested in dating or anything like and

(01:35:06):
in fear friend, I just I wantn't want to lead
you on. You did it to like three other friends
in the same group shooting fish.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
In a barrel. Hey, it's you know, it's the five time, right.

Speaker 3 (01:35:18):
It was like it's been an ongoing grope or a
joke with my one group.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
Did anybody go out with them?

Speaker 3 (01:35:24):
One of the girls wanted to, and I was like,
don't why because we called him a mud slinger.

Speaker 2 (01:35:30):
A mud slinger.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
Yeah, there's a lot of mud slingers out there.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
Just trying to see what sticks. Yes, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (01:35:35):
And I think that showing you feeling like you're desperate
is such a turn off, Like, do not be too
about someone like right away, because it's just like, are.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
You that the term love bombing?

Speaker 3 (01:35:50):
Yes? Yeah, oh yeah, I've oh yeah a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Yeah we thought you did. Oh my god, yeah that
was the date.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
We didn't even go in to Dalor.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
I think I was really friend.

Speaker 3 (01:36:06):
No, it's fine, I'm sorry, but I was just like, no,
I didn't lead you on, like right right right? But yeah,
I mean I don't know. Just there's also those guys
who only want to talk about themselves and don't ask
questions like but again with me, I didn't want that

(01:36:28):
serious relationship, so that didn't bother me. But I know
my friends who have gone out on dates, They're like,
he literally asked me no questions, Like he just talked
about himself the whole time, and it's like, hmmm, yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
It's weird. I not not going on dates or anything.
I would find that. I don't know, it would be
weird for me. What part, Well, I think you can
have the conversations up I I I think that I

(01:37:05):
would have to. I could never do one of those
dating app things. And yet I know people who have
met up and done things. To me, that's just a
quick way to get laid if there's some that's what
you're looking for.

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
I had Tinder, Yeah, and I would like turn it on,
go out on like a couple of dates, and then
turn it off like and I would do it like
here and there every few months when I was like
I'll go out and meet someone like and I had
one guy, like one guy that I did hang out
with for a month, we'll say, like I actually genuinely

(01:37:41):
liked him. But they were like I never thought it
was going to be serious. There were a lot of
things that I was like, oh, I would never like
date someone like you. And he did call me a slut,
call everything.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:37:55):
Yeah, he told me he repented out with me. Repent
yes or no? Repented?

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
What do you mean repented? What the fuck does that
even mean?

Speaker 3 (01:38:04):
Because I was a sinful woman. She literally thought like
we were gonna be serious. I was like, I I screenshot.
I found a screenshot the other day of my Tinder
profile and it truly and it's funny. I think I
sent it to Joe. I was like, oh, you know,
this is what it said. It said I am not

(01:38:25):
looking for anything serious. I was like, I am looking
for a friend to go for like hikes with.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
I like to go.

Speaker 3 (01:38:30):
Bers like that was I wanted like some male, you know,
someone who I could make up with if I wanted to.
But like I was very much I am not looking
for a serious relationship. He was pissed, like pissed that
he was on that are we dating the same? Guy
site a couple of months ago, and when my friends

(01:38:52):
wrote about like my situation with him. Wow, because then
he tried to reach out again, like a few months
later and say.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
Sorry God, why good Lord? That sounds jealous, didn't. Yeah,
I want to tell me about the two date night.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
Oh which one?

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
Yeah, but a two date night, like one ends at
what seven?

Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
You go for the early go for like, yeah, a
happy hour drink and that hour drink. That other one
I know, I went to Winfield and went for like
a post dinner drink, And none.

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
Of these were turned into anything.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
No, No, the one actually hold on the one that
I met at Winfield for the post center drink. That
was the guy I was supposed to bring to a
boxing class with you.

Speaker 2 (01:39:38):
Oh that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
Yeah, But on our second date he got like really
possessive of me and started telling like his friends.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
Like you were his girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, how do are
women looking? I'll ask this, and I have to formulate
the question. I think a little better in my head.
But I always think that guys who get divorced more
than women. I think there's something about the stability of
the relationship that makes them feel that they can like

(01:40:07):
it's almost like that area of my life is content,
so I can focus on my purpose or whatever I'm
doing right, And I often see guys, it seems like
to me, men jump into a new relationship quicker than women.
Oh yeah, but it really does seem that way to me.
I don't know if that's a fact or not, but

(01:40:29):
there's something about the stability of the relationship that I
think balances a guy. And the problem is it may
not be right. And I think a lot of times
for everybody it's different players, same situation, right, we're bringing
we attract the same type of person, the same type
of baggage. You've resolved none of your own shit that

(01:40:52):
made the other one end. It's always that other person's fault.
You've got a bunch of shit you didn't deal with
and get to the root of, and now you've jumped
into a new relationship. And a lot of times, I
think statistically second marriages don't last even as long as
as first marriages. Right, So, and maybe that is also
like I knew what I like, I know what I
don't like, and I'm a little more confident I've gone

(01:41:14):
through this before. I'm out of this. But I why
is it? What is it with men like that? There
almost does seem to be a desperation among men for that.
Like there's something about I've spent ten years of my
life family around. I like that stability, and I can
understand that myself, you know, I totally get it. But

(01:41:34):
god damn, don't make it wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:41:35):
I joke that my dad had his next wife before
he would leave his previous wife.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
Yeah, well, I mean yeah, serial dating almost to a relationship,
serial relationships, not serial dating.

Speaker 3 (01:41:48):
I think a lot of guys are I don't know,
maybe single minded where yeah, like they focus on their
work or whatever, and their home life is just like
it's son that to come home to somebody else who
already is like, you know, the dinner and everything. I
think they still have that old school mentality.

Speaker 2 (01:42:10):
That you take care of home.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
Yeah, and so like, yeah, that's why they don't want
to be single, Like they don't know. I remember when
my ex's grandma died. We were worried about his grandpa
because his grandpa had never made himself a meal. Wow,
Like yeah, like it's he died a few months later.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
It's usually the case.

Speaker 3 (01:42:30):
Yeah, But like I do think that men just want
to come home to the wife and the house and
everything they do, say a lot of guys, And I
know this is going to sound horrible, but I'm going
to think the better looking men who go through divorces,
they have their whole year and then they want to

(01:42:50):
settle down. After a year, they realize it's not all
that great.

Speaker 2 (01:42:54):
Right, I've I've heard you've been called that. No, no,
I have not, I have not. No, that's funny. But
so take me to like you get two years into
a relationship, right, and sometimes that magic is gone, the butterflies,

(01:43:17):
the thing. How what? And I will say a lot
of times I think it's guys. Because for women, if
you have kids, this is why. Like I had to
sign papers to let my son, my youngest son, go
with my wife out of state to live out of state.

(01:43:40):
And I think when she presented me, she said, all
my friends say, you'll never do this, And I was
trying to really think. Sometimes it's hard to separate emotions
and things. You know, when we look at business, we go,
how the fuck can you've just ruined all these people's like,
there's no emotion in business, just isn't. And if you

(01:44:02):
run a business, a lot of times you're going to fail.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
That is My business coach has talked to me about
how I have to stop being so empathetic because the
people who really really really needed me a lot of
times couldn't afford me, and so I would discount my
rists or I would work on the weekends and I
would want to help them, and she's like, you're not
helping yourself, so in turn, you're not helping your children,

(01:44:28):
and so it really it was a it was a
mind fuck like for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):
So that makes a lot of sense, and I think that.
But I do think that there's an importance when kids
are young to have the mom around, right, to be
with mom, And that was my thinking. And then I
also thought that where she was going was because there
was family, and I thought the good influence and all that,
and I, you know, I made a decision and I

(01:44:56):
like to think more out of intellect than emotion. Not
an easy one, but so so when it comes to
like women and you're caring for the kids, I don't
think guys really appreciate all the stuff. No, right, when
we talk about guys, you know, keeping the home and
doing that sort of thing, that's where like, you know,
you do it on your own a little bit. I

(01:45:17):
mean there are times I'm by myself. I go, how
the fuck am I getting it all this done? I
got laundry, I got this, I want to I can't
stand the mess I got. And that's right. And I'm
bitching to myself because I made the messes.

Speaker 3 (01:45:29):
I have said. And I again, I like, pre apologize
my ex. I have never missed him as a person.
Yeah I missed the help around the house.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
I miss a statement right there. It's the greatest fucking statement.
But the help around the house did it make him
more attractive? When he did? We used to call it
chore play? Right? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:46:00):
When I came home the other day and Joe have
cleaned for like an hour and a half, I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:46:04):
I'll blow you right now, right, I mean, I'm sorry, But.

Speaker 3 (01:46:09):
No, when I come home and he's he's done yard
work for me, and it's not that he won't even
tell me. He just shows up to my house and
like weeds, and I'm like, this is the biggest turn
on the fact that you are physically helping me, like
with something that yeah, I don't have the time or
whatever to do, Like it's amazing is it. I also

(01:46:31):
don't huh, don't want to have to thank someone, especially
if you live with them, for unloading the dishwasher. And
my ex wanted the pat on the back if he
did anything folded laundry like, and I'm no, this is
your laundry too, This is archial, this is our mess,
this is our house. Like I shouldn't have to, you know,

(01:46:55):
but yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
No, I I hear you. There. Is it normal for
people like to get bored with somebody like two years
in and how do you think what would be the
good way to spark it up or make it h.

Speaker 3 (01:47:10):
Have you ever heard that two to two theory? No,
it's when you're in a relationship, every two weeks you
should go on a date, like have a date night, yea.
Every two months you should do like an overnight, and
every two years you should go on a vacation together.
I'd like that. I think I think that's maybe too much.

(01:47:31):
I don't know, especially when you're raising kids if money
is tight, like going out to dinner and a babysitter
that's easily a couple hundred dollars, Oh my god, like
so to do that twice a month, like that's a lot,
but you can do just creative things like I My
favorite thing to do is hike. So this morning Joe

(01:47:52):
was like, after I was texting you, He's like, let's
go hike this afternoon. I was like, yes, like he
knows that that's something I really love to do. So
I think playing into your partners like the things that
they really like, surprising them. I'm I don't think gifts
is a big thing, but like a little gift goes

(01:48:14):
a long way.

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
Always dating, always try to keep that that segment.

Speaker 3 (01:48:20):
Makes someone feel appreciated. I think all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:48:23):
How important and I think this is right. Having not
been doing that, I find it now to listen and
and and by listen, I mean like.

Speaker 3 (01:48:38):
It's not like you know, listen to me to tell
you your partner's opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
Well value the opinion. But I'm even saying like you
can pick up things like you know, I've god, I
always wanted whatever, and it's just said in a thing
and you make a mental note of it. And some
that they mysteriously it just appears like you listen right
or you know, I really can't stand when somebody so
you make sure you're not doing that. And those are

(01:49:05):
the things relationships are. I hate the word work, but
they are.

Speaker 1 (01:49:09):
They are.

Speaker 2 (01:49:11):
But if it's if it means something to you, because
I'll tell you. I think we have the definition of
intimacy wrong a lot of times, and by intimacy we
often think like sex and that sort of thing, and
it is. But you can have sex with anybody, but
you can't necessarily have the intimacy and the trust and

(01:49:32):
knowing the person really really well that. I think that
that overcomes everything, absolutely and it's all part of it.
I think it makes everything better. I think it makes
the sex more intense. I think it makes you know
things I don't Knowation is key to Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
I think when you said like putting those little oh,
I wish I had this, and surprising someone. I also
think if you flip it around and you're partner, there's
something that is bothering you about them, Yes, being like
not rude about it, but actually telling them instead of
giving them being passive aggressive or the cold shoulder or

(01:50:11):
like getting frustrated with them, like that can be so
big if you just simply tell them. I can't stand
when water bottles or like seltzer cans are left out
around my house, like obviously. So if anyone passed relationship
current relationship, if they like leave like cans around, I'm like, please,

(01:50:33):
at least just all I ask you to do is
we have a recycling bed. Yeah, right in my right
behind the garbage. All you gotta do is pull it
out and put the can in there. Like it's just
those little things. But I speak up about it instead of.

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
Like letting fester. Yes, and all of a sudden you
explode and you're whipping bottles of people's heads, you fucking idiot.
Yeah again, Yeah, yeah, Well, I think this has been
very interesting. I didn't know all the depth your business.
The uh we we talked about the transgender issue or
not issue really with the boxing and then uh uh

(01:51:04):
just relationship stuff. Layers of Laura. I kind of like it.
I think it's great. What layers of Laura I think
it is. That's it. That's what we're gonna call this episode,
layers of Laura. I don't know what that's not insulting?
Is it? No? All right? For Laura. I'm Bill Moran.
We'll see you tomorrow. The Holtail didn't know what to

(01:51:30):
do TV to you dead

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