Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I was halfway through my life before I knew who
I really was. Had I known I was me early
in my life as a child, I would have grown
up differently, made different choices, made different decisions. But like
Gideon who was down in the wine press and the
(00:20):
angel came to him and said, you are a mighty
man of valor, and he thought he was a winemaker,
he didn't know who he was. I'm challenging you right
now to discover yourself by discovering your God. The plan
he has for your life will blow your mind. It
(00:47):
is amazing that most of the major changes that we
have seen in the world have not come from guns.
They've come from mics. Oh hey, And so when I say,
don't drop the mic, is inlua picking up the gun.
If you want to bring about change. The power of
life and death is in the tongue. It's not in
(01:07):
the hand, It's in the tongue.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Doctor King changed the world with the microphone. And I
start out talking in the book about the huge impact
that a Mike Nelson Mandela, what he said changed the world,
Mahatma Gandhi, what he said change the world. When you
when you look at people who really have influence. It's
(01:31):
not it's not power like a gun. It's influence like
a mic. And whoever has the mic has great, great responsibility,
great pressure, great influence. And we have to understand that,
and we have to weld it. Not like it's a gig,
not like it's a job, and not merely as if
(01:55):
it were a calling. It's beyond it. It's beyond even calling.
When God gives you influence inside and out, it's an
opportunity to speak peace to situations, to bring reconciliation to situation,
to explain things to people in a language that they
(02:15):
can understand. I have been really effective, I think, at
explaining things to people who have not had shared experiences
so that they could have a little deeper insight into
where this emotion is coming from.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Okay, a sense of profound importance landed on this set
a few minutes ago that I feel like I'm doing
a legacy piece with you that is going to reverberate
for many years.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
The one thing I said.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
To you before we started is I love the format
of this book. And what you've done is you've done
all your teaching about what you're talking about, and and
you know how to be you know, you know, influenced
by the Holy Spirit, but be prepared at the same time.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
But I love what you did.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You got doctor Frank Thomas, and he is the director
of the doctorate program in African American Preaching and Sacred
Rhetorica at Christian Theological Seminary in Indianapolis, Indiana. And what
he did is kind of a little bit of an interview,
kind of post analysis of.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What you've said in here, a little bit of an interview.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And so this is a really interesting way to not
only get bishops teaching, but then get kind of the
interview or kind of the behind the scenes of what
And I love the format of that, and whoever thought
that up is rather smart. But you then did a
(03:51):
sermon just say thank you. I didn't know I was
me okay, And I'm going to get there before we end.
I promise you. I want you to just make let's
do the lightning round. Just a quick comment on challenging
cultural conventions.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I love this.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Section, but just a little SoundBite on it. Then I'll
ask you another quick one.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well, I just think that it's important that we shape
the culture rather than respond to it. And I'm not
sure that we have led the way in shaping culture.
I think we've responded to culture word somewhere behind.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Okay, the process of preaching is one of the actual
full sections. But I underlined miracle in your message you're
talking about blind bartimas, and then I wrote in the
margin here process versus calling. Okay, So what are you
(04:53):
talking about inside of that section miracle in your message?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I think sometimes we have a cookie cutter way of
looking looking at things a text at life, at situation.
But when you flip it and get different perspectives, you
become a better preacher. You become a better orator. And
that's beyond just being called to it. That's beyond just
the calling itself, but understanding the oratorical experience that we
(05:21):
have more than one character here, Let's look at it
through different people's eyes and their POV their point of
view will direct you to different truths that cause you
to appreciate the overall story.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
The most important thing in communication is hearing what isn't
said inside of the chapter? The pregnant pause, What do
you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You know a lot of what well, a lot of
what communication is isn't just words. It's body language. It's
it's the pausing between phrases for impact. You know, all
of it. There's a there's an art to it. It's
not just a science, it's an art. And so I
think it's important when we start talking about speaking that
(06:09):
that we understand that silence can be as powerful and
convey as much information as speaking does. My wife is very,
very powerful even without saying a word. You know, she can,
she can, she can let you know what you need
to know in that in that silence, baby, she can't
(06:32):
really speak to your heard, Lord Jesus.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
And so you touch the nerve of your.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Own yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love you.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yes, you triggered yourself absolutely, Okay. In Plan for spontaneity,
and we started there a while back, but I want
to read something out of the book that you say
about spontaneity. Some speech experts and communication coaches discourage spontanate
because of the risks involved in loosening your control. And
(07:05):
there are definite risks worth considering before you decide to
call an audible and play an audible play and wing it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Okay, we touched on that.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
As you become more experienced as a communicator, you may
also grow more comfortable with Spontanaty comment on that.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Well, first of all, I think it's important to realize
a lot of people become imprisoned by the manuscript or
by their notes.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
But I have always felt like I made the notes.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
The notes didn't make me, and if I was bright
enough to write it down, I ought to be bright
enough on the spot to be the master of the notes,
rather than to become enslaved to what you wrote down.
I mean it came out of your research. Your study,
your preparation, and your ability to be spontaneous is the
(07:58):
same way which you wrote the notes in the first place.
You can rewrite them, you can reorganize them, you can
rewrite them while you're speaking, as long as you do
not when it comes to preaching, as long as you
don't do damage to the text, you have freedom. But
bear in mind, this book is written not only to preachers,
but litigators, to salespeople, to couples, to families, talking intergenerationally,
(08:21):
and sometimes we have a prepared spiece, like the prodigal
son who practices all the way home. I will say
to my father, I'm no more worthy to be called
our son. He's practicing all of this stuff, and then
when he gets right in front of his father, the
whole moment changes with a ring and a robe and
the killing of a calf. All of a sudden he
has access to an unexpected grace.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You're pretty good at this. By the way, here's a
good quote. Ingredients for a good sermon come from what
the recipe requires as well as what you decide to
add or subtract.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That quote is brother T. D.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Jakes.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
You're talking about the ingredients.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, the big metaphor I use in the book is
between speaking and cooking. And when you cook, you pull
out everything that you're going to need. You won't use
everything that you pulled out. There will be flour that
gets put back on the shelf. You won't use a
whole five pound bag of sugar, but you brought it out.
(09:28):
You may decide to add lemon extract because you don't
like almond. And the ability to be creative in the
moment is what makes us unique. And when it comes
to Bible, we have all of the writers listening in
the same God, but their flavor of ripe. There's so
much difference between the writing of the Book of Hebrews
(09:49):
and the writing of the Book of Romans. Huge difference
in the style Stylistically. Now, God is the author, but
the style of the writer flows through quite vividly and
quite profoundly. There's a huge difference in the writings of
Nehemiah and the writings of the Book of Ruth. And
(10:10):
understanding that you have a style and what is that style,
and enhancing that style and enhancing your experiences creates opportunities
for you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I'm going to read now this is out of the
section of the book near the end. There's three chapters
at the end that are written by doctor Frank Thomas,
and then it's kind of it's kind of like his
analysis and an interview. Okay, So I'm in that section
and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
To read this.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Discovery of Bishop Jake's rhetorical choices helps us to ascertain,
helps us to ascertain what makes him such a persuasive preacher.
We must understand the seven concepts critical to his persuasive strategy.
I want your comment on all seven of them. So
(11:03):
don't take like forty five minutes for each one.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Lightning round call and authority.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Confidence, the confidence in your calling that you can do
this to believe in oneself and the authority that's been
given you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Balance of intellectualism and spiritual demonstration.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I think that's critical. All intellectualism without spirituality is all
truth without grace.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
All spirituality without intellectualism is all grace without truth. We
behold the wonder of His glory when we see both
grace and truth.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Bonal structure of the sermon.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
The bonal structure of the sermon is the skeleton. It's
the outline. I don't preach with manuscripts. I generally have
outlines and altering that skeletal framework is the strategy through
which you determine what I trying to accomplish, and how
do I inform them and when do I introduce this information?
(12:06):
That framework is the most important thing. Even in writing
a book, is writing the chapters becoming outline.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
The structure of this book is amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
The I love this piece.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
At the end, can I say something real quick? I
have heard so many times all over the world, and
he will attest about you, in particular teaching ministers how
to minister. It's because I've heard it over and over
(12:39):
and over all over island nations and people saying I
learned to preach because I could watch TV. I watched
TD jakeson He taught me how to preach. I've heard that,
that's amazing so many times around the world.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Let me add to what she's saying, because what we're
talking about is balance. He realized in Africa you might
want to have some African preachers on TV and in Africa, right,
all right, But then they say, well, well, hang on,
don't take away the American preacher TD Jakes because we
(13:15):
learned how to preach because we were watching him on
TVN see. So the the idea that the what we
hear about is the balance between exporting American version of
Christianity and the localized version of of what Christianity is
in a particular part of the world. And they say,
(13:36):
wait a second. You know you know what I heard.
I've heard the the the American Church have taught us
how to minister. We've heard that over and over and over.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Okay, all over.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
If you actually love people, not just love preaching, you
have to love people. Love comes through through your preaching
like it does in your cooking. There's a difference. I
don't care what anybody says. There's a difference between a
home cooked meal and the and the ones you get
at the restaurant when when love is in it, the
food tastes different.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
And that's also true about speaking.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, I just had to say, I'm I'm on number four.
Flesh on the bones defining the formula for balance.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
When where you started from the skeletal aspect of it,
and then the flesh on the bones as it is
in the context from which that was extrapolated, really refers
to how do you fill in in between that framework?
Speaker 4 (14:40):
What flavorful? Ways do you flesh out the text? What?
What is?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
What is not there that the writer had that the
orator has to put their The man on the Jericho Road,
it was dark, and he fell amongst thieves, and they
stripped him and wounded him and left him half dead.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
What what is he feeling le there with the.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Sand up against his back and hit the blood oozing
out of his body, and him almost delirious, and his
eyesight becoming blurred. And suddenly he hears the thud of
a footstep and his heart begins to race in his
chest that perhaps this might be the moment come on
that I am saved from the calamity around me. You
(15:22):
know those sorts of things that's not there, but it's there,
and so that's putting meat on the bone.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
You know, we all want you to read to us,
and we want you to read us to sleep every
night when we get in bad we all want you
to tuck us in at night.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I would love to.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A good story embodiment of the message Number five.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
The where are we going with this? I came back
from my last trip in Africa. I was ready to
preach this message about there are over two thousand different
languages on the continent well over, and I was going
to tie it in with Nimrod and I was going
to do all this stuff. And then I got down
to my litmus test as to whether something makes it
(16:08):
off the cutting room floor to actually be on the stage.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Is what is the point?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And if you can't come up with the point rather
than just enjoying the information, then I don't preach it.
You know, what is the apex? What is the pinnacle?
What are we trying to get across to this audience?
Because words are the vehicles of ideas, and if we're
going to ride them, we have to have a sense
(16:36):
of where we're going.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
The Daddy persona.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I think, particularly in our society today, with so many
children born without fathers, I bring who I am to
the text, and so it is the voice of a
father because I am a father. Even if all God
forbid all my children passed away, that would not take
away from the fact that I am a father. A
father is something that you are, not something that you do.
(17:05):
And so that voice, that fatherly voice coming across informs
my preaching in the same way that if I were
a woman, maybe being a mother would affect the way
in which I approached the text. If I was raised
an only child, maybe Jacob being left alone wrestling with
an angel does not seem tumultuous to me because I've
(17:28):
been alone all my life. And yet for me, being
raised around siblings and family, being left alone that all
by itself says to me that he is trump traumatized
because he's in isolation.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
So how we interpret the text has.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Something to do with our experiences and how we handle
a loneness.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I feel like I could start a church right now
because I've learned quite a bit, so maybe I will
know I will not the empowerment.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
The empowerment of the homiletics is to understand the text
in context. Okay, I think sometimes we're so hermeneutical that
we get away from the homiletics, we extrapolate from the text.
We play with the text so much that we get
it out of its original intent. Before you start elaborating
(18:26):
on the possibilities of how it can be used in
a contemporary setting, let us leave it in its original
environment and understand that Paul is talking to Corinth, and
he is speaking to the people in Corinth and a
problem that is existing in their church. He is not
necessarily speaking the first Baptist when he says to them,
(18:49):
does not nature teach itself that it's unseemly for a
man to have long hair? It's the times he's in.
It's the people he's writing to. In the Bible, we
get to read other people's male isn't it amazing? Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
We're gonna unloose you and hand you the mic proverbiably
speaking in a moment. But when doctor Frank Thomas asked
you something, you reverted to the most important message that
you have, which is I've always known God was for me.
(19:32):
Why don't you jump off that and kind of give
us a final thought and a final prayer in regard
to not dropping the mic in our own lives.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I was born on the side of a hill in
the hills of West Virginia, with a veil over my face,
and a young a woman came down and told my
mother that she had birth to prophet. And from my
earliest existence until now, even when I was unsaved, even
(20:03):
when I was depressed, even when I was weak or
wrong or out of God's will, he might not have
been for what I did, but I always knew he
was for me. Wow, I've always known he was on
my side. I've always known that I was never alone,
and that I am here, alive and breathing by the
(20:25):
grace of God. And if you can embrace what Paul
says is unknowable, the unknowable riches of the love of God.
He's asking us to know the unknowable. But if you
can attempt to embrace the idea, then God is for me,
even when the world is against me, in times are
against me and things are not going my way, you
(20:48):
can approach life with a greater degree of confidence and
assurance knowing that the favor of God rest on you.
Even when the word of God is convicting you. It's
still favor that he's even speaking to you. For God
so loved the world. He's a lover. Jesus is a
lover of our souls. And once we allow that love
(21:11):
to fill us and to inform us and to embrace us,
then it oozes out of how we approach other people.
The problem with most people, they can't give love because
they have never really received it. And God wants to
feel that chasm that exists in your soul of lovelessness
and bitterness and anger and frustration with the assurance that
(21:36):
I am for you. I'm not always agreed with you,
I'm not always agreed with what you did, but I
am for you. I am not just your God. Jesus
taught us to say when you pray, don't say our God,
our Father. And knowing that you have a loving father
that is for you has comforted my soul and carried
(22:00):
me through many, many tough times.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So many years ago, when you were in the back
of a limousine and going through some white gates and
you were coming to be on television. I think your
very first appearance on television anywhere.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
My dad undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Would have looked to you those many many decades ago,
and said, Bishop, look into the camera and invite people
to know, Jesus, we're doing the same thing. Over all
these decades. You realize we're doing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I can see his boots, his cowboy boots, said that
belt with the buckle on it, I'll do just that.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
If you're sitting here right now, watching this broadcast, and
perhaps there is a scar in your soul or leak
in your heart, perhaps like the woman with iss your
blood you're bleeding profusely in places that no one can
even see. Jesus is passing by, right by you, within
(23:11):
arm's reach. And if you will allow yourself to get
beyond your own personal pain and bitterness and the nuances
of the atrocities of your story, and reach out and
touch him, he has the grace to heal you. He
has the grace and the blood to save you. He
(23:34):
has some mercy to forgive you, and he has the
power to make the second half of your life in
so much better than the first half has been. I
invite you, I implore you, I beseech you come down to Jesus.
(23:55):
He's waiting on you, his arms outstretched to you. He's
available to you. All you have to do is just
ask him, just simple, Jesus, come into my heart, Come
into my life, fill my life with your glory. I
believe that you died for my sins, and so I
(24:16):
give them over to you. And I accept your righteousness
as being enough to prepare me for having Thank you
for taking all the work out of it and dying
in my place. You died in my place so that
I can live in yours in Jesus' name.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Amen, beautiful man.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
My dad told an old story about one of his
relatives getting saved while he was running across a plowed
field being chased by a bull and just cried out,
and Jesus helped me.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
He got out of that situation, gave its life to
the life.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
That's you know what what I just I want to
just say again, you know when Bishop TD Jakes is
going to.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Live the life he did.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Through the experience that he did, and then sit down
and write you a letter and and in the way
that he didn't on this, on this so this important
subject of communication. We all want to communicate better, we
all want to communicate more efficiently.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I just want to say thank you. This is a
serious thing.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Seriously, I really feel the importance of this and your
heart in it, and I'm just going to encourage everybody
to get it wherever books are sold or that little
company called Amazon. Bishop, I'll give you the last thought,
final thought on this subject, and then we'll say goodbye.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
You alluded to something in the book that I would
like to just take a moment and add on the message.
I didn't know I was me. I was halfway through
my life before I knew who I really was. Had
I known I was me early in my life as
a child, I would have grown up differently, made different choices,
(26:19):
made different decisions. But like Gideon who was down in
the wine press and the angel came to him and said,
you are a mighty man of valor, and he thought
he was a winemaker, he didn't know who he was.
I'm challenging you right now to discover yourself by discovering
(26:43):
your God. The plan he has for your life will
blow your mind and definitely change your decisions. I didn't
know I was me. Maybe you don't know who you're
going to be in the next twenty years or ten,
or even in the next second. One second can change everything.
I was halfway through my life before I knew who
I really was. Had I known I was me early
in my life as a child, I would have grown
up differently, made different choices, made different decisions. But like
Gideon who was down in the wine press and the
(00:20):
angel came to him and said, you are a mighty
man of valor, and he thought he was a winemaker,
he didn't know who he was. I'm challenging you right
now to discover yourself by discovering your God. The plan
he has for your life will blow your mind. It
(00:47):
is amazing that most of the major changes that we
have seen in the world have not come from guns.
They've come from mics. Oh hey, And so when I say,
don't drop the mic, is inlua picking up the gun.
If you want to bring about change. The power of
life and death is in the tongue. It's not in
(01:07):
the hand, It's in the tongue.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Doctor King changed the world with the microphone. And I
start out talking in the book about the huge impact
that a Mike Nelson Mandela, what he said changed the world,
Mahatma Gandhi, what he said change the world. When you
when you look at people who really have influence. It's
(01:31):
not it's not power like a gun. It's influence like
a mic. And whoever has the mic has great, great responsibility,
great pressure, great influence. And we have to understand that,
and we have to weld it. Not like it's a gig,
not like it's a job, and not merely as if
(01:55):
it were a calling. It's beyond it. It's beyond even calling.
When God gives you influence inside and out, it's an
opportunity to speak peace to situations, to bring reconciliation to situation,
to explain things to people in a language that they
(02:15):
can understand. I have been really effective, I think, at
explaining things to people who have not had shared experiences
so that they could have a little deeper insight into
where this emotion is coming from.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Okay, a sense of profound importance landed on this set
a few minutes ago that I feel like I'm doing
a legacy piece with you that is going to reverberate
for many years.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
The one thing I said.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
To you before we started is I love the format
of this book. And what you've done is you've done
all your teaching about what you're talking about, and and
you know how to be you know, you know, influenced
by the Holy Spirit, but be prepared at the same time.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
But I love what you did.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You got doctor Frank Thomas, and he is the director
of the doctorate program in African American Preaching and Sacred
Rhetorica at Christian Theological Seminary in Indianapolis, Indiana. And what
he did is kind of a little bit of an interview,
kind of post analysis of.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What you've said in here, a little bit of an interview.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And so this is a really interesting way to not
only get bishops teaching, but then get kind of the
interview or kind of the behind the scenes of what
And I love the format of that, and whoever thought
that up is rather smart. But you then did a
(03:51):
sermon just say thank you. I didn't know I was
me okay, And I'm going to get there before we end.
I promise you. I want you to just make let's
do the lightning round. Just a quick comment on challenging
cultural conventions.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I love this.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Section, but just a little SoundBite on it. Then I'll
ask you another quick one.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well, I just think that it's important that we shape
the culture rather than respond to it. And I'm not
sure that we have led the way in shaping culture.
I think we've responded to culture word somewhere behind.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Okay, the process of preaching is one of the actual
full sections. But I underlined miracle in your message you're
talking about blind bartimas, and then I wrote in the
margin here process versus calling. Okay, So what are you
(04:53):
talking about inside of that section miracle in your message?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I think sometimes we have a cookie cutter way of
looking looking at things a text at life, at situation.
But when you flip it and get different perspectives, you
become a better preacher. You become a better orator. And
that's beyond just being called to it. That's beyond just
the calling itself, but understanding the oratorical experience that we
(05:21):
have more than one character here, Let's look at it
through different people's eyes and their POV their point of
view will direct you to different truths that cause you
to appreciate the overall story.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
The most important thing in communication is hearing what isn't
said inside of the chapter? The pregnant pause, What do
you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You know a lot of what well, a lot of
what communication is isn't just words. It's body language. It's
it's the pausing between phrases for impact. You know, all
of it. There's a there's an art to it. It's
not just a science, it's an art. And so I
think it's important when we start talking about speaking that
(06:09):
that we understand that silence can be as powerful and
convey as much information as speaking does. My wife is very,
very powerful even without saying a word. You know, she can,
she can, she can let you know what you need
to know in that in that silence, baby, she can't
(06:32):
really speak to your heard, Lord Jesus.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
And so you touch the nerve of your.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Own yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love you.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yes, you triggered yourself absolutely, Okay. In Plan for spontaneity,
and we started there a while back, but I want
to read something out of the book that you say
about spontaneity. Some speech experts and communication coaches discourage spontanate
because of the risks involved in loosening your control. And
(07:05):
there are definite risks worth considering before you decide to
call an audible and play an audible play and wing it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Okay, we touched on that.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
As you become more experienced as a communicator, you may
also grow more comfortable with Spontanaty comment on that.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Well, first of all, I think it's important to realize
a lot of people become imprisoned by the manuscript or
by their notes.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
But I have always felt like I made the notes.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
The notes didn't make me, and if I was bright
enough to write it down, I ought to be bright
enough on the spot to be the master of the notes,
rather than to become enslaved to what you wrote down.
I mean it came out of your research. Your study,
your preparation, and your ability to be spontaneous is the
(07:58):
same way which you wrote the notes in the first place.
You can rewrite them, you can reorganize them, you can
rewrite them while you're speaking, as long as you do
not when it comes to preaching, as long as you
don't do damage to the text, you have freedom. But
bear in mind, this book is written not only to preachers,
but litigators, to salespeople, to couples, to families, talking intergenerationally,
(08:21):
and sometimes we have a prepared spiece, like the prodigal
son who practices all the way home. I will say
to my father, I'm no more worthy to be called
our son. He's practicing all of this stuff, and then
when he gets right in front of his father, the
whole moment changes with a ring and a robe and
the killing of a calf. All of a sudden he
has access to an unexpected grace.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You're pretty good at this. By the way, here's a
good quote. Ingredients for a good sermon come from what
the recipe requires as well as what you decide to
add or subtract.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That quote is brother T. D.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Jakes.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
You're talking about the ingredients.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, the big metaphor I use in the book is
between speaking and cooking. And when you cook, you pull
out everything that you're going to need. You won't use
everything that you pulled out. There will be flour that
gets put back on the shelf. You won't use a
whole five pound bag of sugar, but you brought it out.
(09:28):
You may decide to add lemon extract because you don't
like almond. And the ability to be creative in the
moment is what makes us unique. And when it comes
to Bible, we have all of the writers listening in
the same God, but their flavor of ripe. There's so
much difference between the writing of the Book of Hebrews
(09:49):
and the writing of the Book of Romans. Huge difference
in the style Stylistically. Now, God is the author, but
the style of the writer flows through quite vividly and
quite profoundly. There's a huge difference in the writings of
Nehemiah and the writings of the Book of Ruth. And
(10:10):
understanding that you have a style and what is that style,
and enhancing that style and enhancing your experiences creates opportunities
for you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I'm going to read now this is out of the
section of the book near the end. There's three chapters
at the end that are written by doctor Frank Thomas,
and then it's kind of it's kind of like his
analysis and an interview. Okay, So I'm in that section
and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
To read this.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Discovery of Bishop Jake's rhetorical choices helps us to ascertain,
helps us to ascertain what makes him such a persuasive preacher.
We must understand the seven concepts critical to his persuasive strategy.
I want your comment on all seven of them. So
(11:03):
don't take like forty five minutes for each one.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Lightning round call and authority.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Confidence, the confidence in your calling that you can do
this to believe in oneself and the authority that's been
given you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Balance of intellectualism and spiritual demonstration.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I think that's critical. All intellectualism without spirituality is all
truth without grace.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
All spirituality without intellectualism is all grace without truth. We
behold the wonder of His glory when we see both
grace and truth.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Bonal structure of the sermon.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
The bonal structure of the sermon is the skeleton. It's
the outline. I don't preach with manuscripts. I generally have
outlines and altering that skeletal framework is the strategy through
which you determine what I trying to accomplish, and how
do I inform them and when do I introduce this information?
(12:06):
That framework is the most important thing. Even in writing
a book, is writing the chapters becoming outline.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
The structure of this book is amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
The I love this piece.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
At the end, can I say something real quick? I
have heard so many times all over the world, and
he will attest about you, in particular teaching ministers how
to minister. It's because I've heard it over and over
(12:39):
and over all over island nations and people saying I
learned to preach because I could watch TV. I watched
TD jakeson He taught me how to preach. I've heard that,
that's amazing so many times around the world.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Let me add to what she's saying, because what we're
talking about is balance. He realized in Africa you might
want to have some African preachers on TV and in Africa, right,
all right, But then they say, well, well, hang on,
don't take away the American preacher TD Jakes because we
(13:15):
learned how to preach because we were watching him on
TVN see. So the the idea that the what we
hear about is the balance between exporting American version of
Christianity and the localized version of of what Christianity is
in a particular part of the world. And they say,
(13:36):
wait a second. You know you know what I heard.
I've heard the the the American Church have taught us
how to minister. We've heard that over and over and over.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Okay, all over.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
If you actually love people, not just love preaching, you
have to love people. Love comes through through your preaching
like it does in your cooking. There's a difference. I
don't care what anybody says. There's a difference between a
home cooked meal and the and the ones you get
at the restaurant when when love is in it, the
food tastes different.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
And that's also true about speaking.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, I just had to say, I'm I'm on number four.
Flesh on the bones defining the formula for balance.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
When where you started from the skeletal aspect of it,
and then the flesh on the bones as it is
in the context from which that was extrapolated, really refers
to how do you fill in in between that framework?
Speaker 4 (14:40):
What flavorful? Ways do you flesh out the text? What?
What is?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
What is not there that the writer had that the
orator has to put their The man on the Jericho Road,
it was dark, and he fell amongst thieves, and they
stripped him and wounded him and left him half dead.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
What what is he feeling le there with the.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Sand up against his back and hit the blood oozing
out of his body, and him almost delirious, and his
eyesight becoming blurred. And suddenly he hears the thud of
a footstep and his heart begins to race in his
chest that perhaps this might be the moment come on
that I am saved from the calamity around me. You
(15:22):
know those sorts of things that's not there, but it's there,
and so that's putting meat on the bone.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
You know, we all want you to read to us,
and we want you to read us to sleep every
night when we get in bad we all want you
to tuck us in at night.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I would love to.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A good story embodiment of the message Number five.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
The where are we going with this? I came back
from my last trip in Africa. I was ready to
preach this message about there are over two thousand different
languages on the continent well over, and I was going
to tie it in with Nimrod and I was going
to do all this stuff. And then I got down
to my litmus test as to whether something makes it
(16:08):
off the cutting room floor to actually be on the stage.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Is what is the point?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And if you can't come up with the point rather
than just enjoying the information, then I don't preach it.
You know, what is the apex? What is the pinnacle?
What are we trying to get across to this audience?
Because words are the vehicles of ideas, and if we're
going to ride them, we have to have a sense
(16:36):
of where we're going.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
The Daddy persona.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I think, particularly in our society today, with so many
children born without fathers, I bring who I am to
the text, and so it is the voice of a
father because I am a father. Even if all God
forbid all my children passed away, that would not take
away from the fact that I am a father. A
father is something that you are, not something that you do.
(17:05):
And so that voice, that fatherly voice coming across informs
my preaching in the same way that if I were
a woman, maybe being a mother would affect the way
in which I approached the text. If I was raised
an only child, maybe Jacob being left alone wrestling with
an angel does not seem tumultuous to me because I've
(17:28):
been alone all my life. And yet for me, being
raised around siblings and family, being left alone that all
by itself says to me that he is trump traumatized
because he's in isolation.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
So how we interpret the text has.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Something to do with our experiences and how we handle
a loneness.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I feel like I could start a church right now
because I've learned quite a bit, so maybe I will
know I will not the empowerment.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
The empowerment of the homiletics is to understand the text
in context. Okay, I think sometimes we're so hermeneutical that
we get away from the homiletics, we extrapolate from the text.
We play with the text so much that we get
it out of its original intent. Before you start elaborating
(18:26):
on the possibilities of how it can be used in
a contemporary setting, let us leave it in its original
environment and understand that Paul is talking to Corinth, and
he is speaking to the people in Corinth and a
problem that is existing in their church. He is not
necessarily speaking the first Baptist when he says to them,
(18:49):
does not nature teach itself that it's unseemly for a
man to have long hair? It's the times he's in.
It's the people he's writing to. In the Bible, we
get to read other people's male isn't it amazing? Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
We're gonna unloose you and hand you the mic proverbiably
speaking in a moment. But when doctor Frank Thomas asked
you something, you reverted to the most important message that
you have, which is I've always known God was for me.
(19:32):
Why don't you jump off that and kind of give
us a final thought and a final prayer in regard
to not dropping the mic in our own lives.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I was born on the side of a hill in
the hills of West Virginia, with a veil over my face,
and a young a woman came down and told my
mother that she had birth to prophet. And from my
earliest existence until now, even when I was unsaved, even
(20:03):
when I was depressed, even when I was weak or
wrong or out of God's will, he might not have
been for what I did, but I always knew he
was for me. Wow, I've always known he was on
my side. I've always known that I was never alone,
and that I am here, alive and breathing by the
(20:25):
grace of God. And if you can embrace what Paul
says is unknowable, the unknowable riches of the love of God.
He's asking us to know the unknowable. But if you
can attempt to embrace the idea, then God is for me,
even when the world is against me, in times are
against me and things are not going my way, you
(20:48):
can approach life with a greater degree of confidence and
assurance knowing that the favor of God rest on you.
Even when the word of God is convicting you. It's
still favor that he's even speaking to you. For God
so loved the world. He's a lover. Jesus is a
lover of our souls. And once we allow that love
(21:11):
to fill us and to inform us and to embrace us,
then it oozes out of how we approach other people.
The problem with most people, they can't give love because
they have never really received it. And God wants to
feel that chasm that exists in your soul of lovelessness
and bitterness and anger and frustration with the assurance that
(21:36):
I am for you. I'm not always agreed with you,
I'm not always agreed with what you did, but I
am for you. I am not just your God. Jesus
taught us to say when you pray, don't say our God,
our Father. And knowing that you have a loving father
that is for you has comforted my soul and carried
(22:00):
me through many, many tough times.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So many years ago, when you were in the back
of a limousine and going through some white gates and
you were coming to be on television. I think your
very first appearance on television anywhere.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
My dad undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Would have looked to you those many many decades ago,
and said, Bishop, look into the camera and invite people
to know, Jesus, we're doing the same thing. Over all
these decades. You realize we're doing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I can see his boots, his cowboy boots, said that
belt with the buckle on it, I'll do just that.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
If you're sitting here right now, watching this broadcast, and
perhaps there is a scar in your soul or leak
in your heart, perhaps like the woman with iss your
blood you're bleeding profusely in places that no one can
even see. Jesus is passing by, right by you, within
(23:11):
arm's reach. And if you will allow yourself to get
beyond your own personal pain and bitterness and the nuances
of the atrocities of your story, and reach out and
touch him, he has the grace to heal you. He
has the grace and the blood to save you. He
(23:34):
has some mercy to forgive you, and he has the
power to make the second half of your life in
so much better than the first half has been. I
invite you, I implore you, I beseech you come down to Jesus.
(23:55):
He's waiting on you, his arms outstretched to you. He's
available to you. All you have to do is just
ask him, just simple, Jesus, come into my heart, Come
into my life, fill my life with your glory. I
believe that you died for my sins, and so I
(24:16):
give them over to you. And I accept your righteousness
as being enough to prepare me for having Thank you
for taking all the work out of it and dying
in my place. You died in my place so that
I can live in yours in Jesus' name.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Amen, beautiful man.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
My dad told an old story about one of his
relatives getting saved while he was running across a plowed
field being chased by a bull and just cried out,
and Jesus helped me.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
He got out of that situation, gave its life to
the life.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
That's you know what what I just I want to
just say again, you know when Bishop TD Jakes is
going to.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Live the life he did.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Through the experience that he did, and then sit down
and write you a letter and and in the way
that he didn't on this, on this so this important
subject of communication. We all want to communicate better, we
all want to communicate more efficiently.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I just want to say thank you. This is a
serious thing.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Seriously, I really feel the importance of this and your
heart in it, and I'm just going to encourage everybody
to get it wherever books are sold or that little
company called Amazon. Bishop, I'll give you the last thought,
final thought on this subject, and then we'll say goodbye.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
You alluded to something in the book that I would
like to just take a moment and add on the message.
I didn't know I was me. I was halfway through
my life before I knew who I really was. Had
I known I was me early in my life as
a child, I would have grown up differently, made different choices,
(26:19):
made different decisions. But like Gideon who was down in
the wine press and the angel came to him and said,
you are a mighty man of valor, and he thought
he was a winemaker, he didn't know who he was.
I'm challenging you right now to discover yourself by discovering
(26:43):
your God. The plan he has for your life will
blow your mind and definitely change your decisions. I didn't
know I was me. Maybe you don't know who you're
going to be in the next twenty years or ten,
or even in the next second. One second can change everything.
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