Sarah Jakes Roberts - Surrender Your Expectations of Relationships x Kobe Campbell

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, Sarah.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
My name is Winifred, and I just have one question
to ask you. So we've been a part of your
story and your incredible journey as well. But with all
of that, I just want to know do you sometimes
deal with imposter syndrome? If you do, how have been
able to get out of that?

Speaker 1 (00:23):
How do you deal with it or navigate through it?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Because I feel like sometimes when God tells us to
do something, we think because of our past or because
of what our past looks like, we don't really deserve
to do it, or we're not good enough for it.
But I just want to know how have you been
able to push through and still do the will of God?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Thank you?

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Winif this question is so interesting to me because I
often ask myself, is that imposter syndrome? Like the reason
why you're questioning yourself, the reason why you are doubting
yourself in this moment. But one of the things that
I am beginning to realize is that I feel like
the only reason why I have had impact in my

(01:03):
ministry and what my life is because I've made a
commitment to authenticity whatever is authentic to me for that
specific assignment, And so authenticity isn't necessarily saying I'm going
to show up the same way every single time as
much as it is saying I'm going to show up
in my truth. But I'm going to see if God
blesses this truth. And so I have to say, well,

(01:26):
some of you may have seen the story, some of
you may not have. I was speaking at my father's church,
and I was there on my own and at the time.
Backstory is, at the time I was questioning whether or
not I would be a good candidate to be a
part of the leadership team at the Partis House Stallas,
primarily because you know, I am going to give it

(01:47):
to you the way God gives it to me, and
sometimes it doesn't come off as eloquent in fancy as
I think that it should. And so I was wondering, like,
am I going to have to change myself to step
into what God has called me to do? Or can
I still be myself and it be effective? And I
was having that going on in my own spirit, in
my own mind. I get up to preach and my

(02:09):
wigs start slipping, I take my wig off, I keep
on preaching, and so that moment ends up going viral.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Right all of these people see it.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
But what was crazy about it is instead of it
being something that people just laughed at, it became this
thing that people were inspired by, where they were like,
when you took your wig off, it like snatched shame
out of my soul. It gave me permission to be myself.
Little did they know that as as liberating as that
moment was for them, it was liberating for me because

(02:37):
it helped me to realize that God was trying to
show me like, if you will just be yourself and
your rawest wig cap on state, I can use it,
I can bless it. And so those moments where imposter
syndrome tries to creep in, I remind myself that I'm
not forcing this. I'm just standing in the force of
what it is. I'm not pretending to be anyone other

(02:58):
than myself, which is why you know I could be
on TikTok cutting a turkey open and then turn around
and post a preaching clip. It is important to me
that as I present myself as a leader, as a
thought leader and faith leader, that I do so in
such a way that no one is ever caught by
surprise at me being human and a woman and a

(03:19):
girl who's on a journey, and so resist pretending, Resist
the need to live up to someone's expectation, resist the
need to do what you've seen done before, and ask
yourself and ask God instead.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
If you chose me to.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Do this, and you know who I am, you know
where I went to school or didn't go to school,
you know who my friends are, who my friends are,
and you're still asking me to do this, then I'm
going to show up in the truth of who I am,
and I'm going to sit back and watch how you
multiply whatever my offering is. That's been my testimony, and
that is what has helped me to resist falling into

(03:59):
the try of imposter syndrome, because I am authentically being
who I am and obedient to the places where God
sends me. Doctor Nita has this saying about us playing
out our childhood traumas and our relationships.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Do you agree with that? Yes? A thousand percent. I
feel like.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
We don't even realize some of our childhood trauma until
we are in relationships. My relationship was part of the
reason why I started digging, Like.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Why what's wrong with me? M yep?

Speaker 3 (04:31):
What makes you start a podcast with your husband, where
you're talking about healing and like, perhaps your own things
coming up in the midst of this podcast.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
Oh man, Yes, So I think what made us start
the podcast is realizing when he started going to therapy
how much that changed my life. I think I was like, Okay,
you need to you need to go to therapy quick plan.
You know, I'm not gonna be your therapist anymore, all
the things. But then he started going to therapy. It

(05:00):
demanded of me and I wasn't prepared for that, and
I was like, oh, don't get too healed.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Now, wait what did it demand of you?

Speaker 4 (05:07):
I think that I got really used to feeling entitled
to more space in our relationship because I had done
more work.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
And so.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Whoa, okay, wait a minute, break, you have to break
that down.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
So, yeah, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 4 (05:26):
A lot of like, you know, well, I'm the self aware.
I'm the one who's been in therapy for almost ten years.
So when I say this, I'm coming from this place
therapy jargon, therapy jargon, and that's why we're doing what
I want to do, right, Okay. And then he started healing,
and it started illuminating the ways that I was not
we weren't sharing the space, the emotional real estate. It
was all mine and he was a tenant, you know,

(05:48):
like you get to be here for a little bit.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Calm down, Calm down, because weaponizing healing is like.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
As a therapist, yeah, God, yoke me up quick. And
as he was healing, he would say things like that
really hurt my feelings, And then I found myself falling
into patterns of like, you know, misogyny myself and being like, well,
you're just gonna have to get over it, when that
would never be appropriate for him to do to me, right,

(06:18):
And so when he started saying that, like, hey, it
hurt when you expect me to get over that really quickly,
because you've made it clear that I can't. I can't
track your healing for you. I just have to be
along for the journey, and I'm asking you to do
the same. And I was like, yes in theory, but
in practice, I don't know how I feel about this.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Okay, So let me tell you all of us talking
about we want our man, we want your man. Your man,
your man needs to go to therapy.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Yeah, which we do and we do for sure, But
what you're saying is we may not be ready for
a man who was living in an awareness of his
feelings and emotional state and deconstructing systems of patriarch. Oh yeah, yeah,
I think it was so difficult to let him hurt.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Okay, I'm in true. Okay, So can I ask your
questions can.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Be so random? Sure?

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Are we calling sassy men just emotionally aware men?

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Like this sassy man? Apocalypse?

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Is this?

Speaker 1 (07:18):
I think that there's a difference.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
But I think that in some ways, yes, I will
say that I have felt like sometimes we want the
emotionally aware men, but we only want them to have
those traits to serve us.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
But the reality is like they deserve to experience them
those traits within us, and we are beneficiaries of their
own experience of feeling at home in their bodies and
in their lives. And so I think that sometimes when
we talk about like, oh, the sassy man this, I
cannot speak to every experience, y'all, right, But what I
can say is a lot of them are men who

(07:51):
dare to be honest, and then we shame them for it. Right,
We want you to be honest enough to be faithful
in the relationship and not honest enough to tell me
that tell you that I hurt your feelings, you know,
because then that costs me and for me, I struggled, especially,
I'm like seminary grab licensed therapists like Da da and

(08:12):
God was like and your means sometimes because there are
ways that I just wanted him to be whatever I needed,
but I am not. I'm not called to covenant with
a thing. I'm called to covenant with a person, which means,
like they have their entire life, there are things that
deeply wound him, deeply hurt him, and the same way

(08:35):
I needed space to just share and unload how he
had hurt me, like I needed to be able to
reciprocate and allow him to share that without like, well,
I did this, and I tried this and I fixed this,
and like, I think that one of the things I
love most about my husband, and one of the things
I think is sexiest about him, is his tenderness.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Like he is strong. He's strong enough to.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
Look like the weakest person in the room, but be
able to turn up and take all y'all down.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
He's strong enough to cry in front of men who
does the matter in front of our kids. You know,
he's I've seen him worship in our living room and
our son come up and say, Daddy, why are you crying?
And he's like, because God's been good to me, and
that makes me cry happy tears, and like that makes
me tear up because I'm like my son, Yeah, it's
gonna grow up with the freedom to worship and the

(09:25):
freedom to express because it was modeled for him.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
But that demanded of me to.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Say, you are allowed to feel and I will not
judge how you feel based on the standards of what
the world says black men need to look like.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
So that's a thing. Yeah, Well you've said quite a
few things here. Yeah that I don't even know because
I think a lot of times when we talk about
healing the fractures between men and women as it relates
to romantic relationships, yeah, it's generally talking about what the
man has done wrong. Yeah, and the ways that men

(10:02):
need to grow, what men need to rise to the occasion.
Men need to be more emotionally aware, they need to
do their work.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
And yet we have not.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Prepared ourselves for what that evolved man would look like.
And women involved and they're like, we need man evolved.
We need man evolved. We mean man evolve, and basically
we want men who can serve the version of us
we have become without taking any inventory at all about
who we are going to become in order to serve
this version of who they are.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yes, yes, and even saying I want you to become
this so that I can feel more safe with you. Yeah,
what if the person that God is calling that man
to be is not someone you feel comfortable with. It
should be someone you feel safe with emotionally, physically, all
the things. But like maybe it challenges you. You know,
I think we're so used to sometimes being the source

(10:53):
of challenge for other people, calling people higher, that we
forget that there are contexts in which we are going
to be called high. And for me, that was letting
my husband's journey be his and not about how I
could feel better, you know. So, like a rule we
have is when we go to therapy, we do not
share what we talked about in therapy unless we want to,

(11:17):
And we don't even put ourselves in this position where
someone feels uncomfortable about you asked me.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
So we don't ask.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
So the only time we know what's happened in therapy
is when someone said, Hey, I want to talk to
you about what came up in therapy. You know, because
his space, he deserves a space to be free, the
same way I deserve a space to be free. And
me and my therapist be cutting up. You know, I'm
upset with somebody. I'm like, this is our Instagram?

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Can you pull up?

Speaker 5 (11:44):
No?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Not that one, the one download?

Speaker 4 (11:46):
And so like, he needs that same safe space and
I love that he has that. I want him to
have that. And it also made me realize my life
is not defined by his wellness, you know that, Like
I'm responsible. There's things in my life that I wanted
to outsource to him. I wanted to outsource my self.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Esteem to him.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
You make me feel good instead of me build my
self esteem from internally. You make me feel secure and confident. Now,
there's a part of relationship. That's a part of that,
But like the bulk of what I'm called to be
is my responsibility. You are added onto that. You know,
you support that, you compliment that, you nurture it. But
it has to exist because I've done the work for

(12:29):
it to be there.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Okay, So when we talk about trauma playing out and relationships.
Oh yeah, I am recognizing when I met my husband,
I was in a really great place. I bought my
home in Texas with me and my two kids. I've
gotten out of a toxic marriage, and I was just
finally at a place where I was like, I can
trust myself, I love myself. My story doesn't make me cringe.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
I pick up.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
I moved to Los Angeles and I'm in this unfamiliar,
fast paced city out as much support as I had
been used to. My brother was here, I had a
family friend here, but that's drastic in comparison to how
much support I had. And I found myself I think
clinging to him creating my esteem, my confidence. And even

(13:18):
if you don't move to a new city, you have
a new baby, you lose a job, you take on
a new job. Home is this place where it is
where I should be able to find my footing. But
because he's got his own thing and he's going through
life himself, this may not be the place where I
am finding my footing. And I think I found myself
afraid anytime he had a bad day, even if it

(13:41):
didn't have anything to do with me, at like, this
isn't going to work, he's upset with me?

Speaker 1 (13:46):
What did I do?

Speaker 3 (13:48):
I've learned a lot and grown a lot, But I
do think it goes back to that putting all of
our dependency on this one person's emotional state and making
sure that they're offering us sense of comfort.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yea, how do we.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Identify the way that our trauma becomes a filter for
maybe not just our partner's actions, but for everyone's actions, Like,
how do I know like that's coming through the trauma filter,
this is coming through the healed filter.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
I think A question that I get my clients to
answer is what are your automatic expectations and when did
they start becoming expectations?

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Right?

Speaker 4 (14:27):
When did you automatically start feeling like if a friend
mister birthday, they didn't like you anymore? Like what birthday
did you realize like I now have this expectation?

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (14:38):
What are the things that you automatically expect people to
do and if they don't do them? You can say
to yourself, I knew this was going to happen, or
this was just like or this always happens. Right, anytime
we hear ourselves saying this always happens or like this
is just like or I can never those points to patterns.

(14:58):
Like those statements, they point to patterns and help us
see there's something internally that's happened in the past that
I am trying to resolve in the present, and I'm
trying to protect myself in the future.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
I'm trying to offer myselfish tribute. But the way you
came in here so violent. I'm not really feeling that.
But I feel like being the sister that I am
to the delegation, that I should offer myself is tribute
so they can do their work. But Kobe, I just
met you, and I'm telling you, if you dragged me,
I'm not so far from Eve that I won't kick back.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Like this and you got nails on I don't. So
let me just all right, so you can help me.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
You can help me? Oh my gosh, Okay, you ready.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
So I was doing a podcast and the person at
the end starts saying a lot of nice things about me. Yeah,
and I don't like it. I don't like when people
say nice things about me. Therapy me is that the
trauma field? It is that a trauma filter.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
Well, I will say this, All healing starts with getting
curious and so before I make a judgment, I will
ask questions. Okay, what do you feel in your bo
when someone compliments you, Oh, you are.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Just like doctor and that's why she likes you. I
feel nerves, fear.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Where do you feel in your barn? I at my stomach?

Speaker 4 (16:17):
Yeah, when else do you feel that in your stomach?
What else do you have like that sensation in your
stomach when I'm about to preach?

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah? What do you feel when you preach in it
or before? In it? Free? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:34):
When we're free, we often feel seen. And being seen
is vulnerable. Being seen is vulnerable, Being seen is intimate,
and it can feel scary when someone who has not
spent time with you see something of you that is

(16:55):
so intimate and so real, because it means that there's
a part of you on the inside that's living on
the outside and the world can see it.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
So when I don't like that, I don't like being
seen that way.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
No, I don't think it means you don't like being
seen that way. I think it just is unnerving sometimes
to be intimate with people who you are not with. Rather,
it's hard to feel like there are people who have
access to intimacy with you that you have not chosen
intimacy with and that's what we would call a parasocial relationship.
Like you know of me, and you know me partially,

(17:34):
but you don't know me in here. So when you
call out something in here that you can see from
out there, all the way out there, Oh, that means
that the way I'm living, the what I'm.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Projecting is real. People see me.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
And when people see you, they can hurt you, right,
they can celebrate you, they can lift you up, they
can tear you down. It's just a vulnerable way of existing.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
So if someone is too to live a life where
they're like, you know what, I want to be free,
I want to be whole. Like what do you think
we have to surrender in order to live that way?

Speaker 4 (18:09):
Certainty about anything, Certainty about what we think life is
supposed to be, like, what partnership is supposed to be?
Like who we are, who the people we are called
to are, who God is like remaining ultimately curious and
just saying like, I'm willing to learn, I'm willing to

(18:31):
find out I don't know, and even what I think
I know, I'm willing to be found wrong.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, this is so so in my messages.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
I feel like it really has to be like, if
it's for you, it's for you, and if it's not,
it's not because I feel like I have a responsibility
as someone who was standing in the gap between people
and what I perceive God is telling me to make
sure that I cast net wide enough to cover different

(19:02):
circumstances and scenarios. And so I was talking last month
about you know, I got a bad report from the doctor,
and there was on one hand where I was like,
proclaim your healing, take your healing, plead the blood of Jesus,
rebuke the disease. But also I had to wrestle with

(19:24):
the reality that there were people who have done all
of those things and still got the disease and still died.
And I did not want to set myself up or
someone else up for this idea of God betrayed me
by not giving me what it is that I prayed for,
but instead to stretch our reality in such a way

(19:45):
that if this is the path that has been approved
for you to take, that sometimes healing is not necessarily
the disease being gone. Sometimes healing is God giving me
this strength to walk this through and still be a light. Yes,
because if we only make it to where things have

(20:06):
to turn out the way that I need them to be,
that's the only way I have certainty that God is
with me, that God is real is if he does
it this way, then we miss out on the opportunity
of experiencing God's presence and suffering God's presence in pain
and in disease. And that's just the reality that God

(20:27):
doesn't always show up in the way that we would
have wanted him to. But it doesn't mean that we
can't access his presence now.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
Yes, Yes, and one that is powerful too. I'm sorry
about whatever report you got, and I'll be pretanul for
you for sure. But three that makes me think back
to the question you asked me about whether it's trying
to the compliments, just thinking that, like you know, when
you are thinking about sharing your experience, your lived experience,

(20:54):
you're still processing how this is this going to affect
other people?

Speaker 5 (20:58):
Right?

Speaker 4 (20:59):
And that's not a bad thing. It just means that
you know you represent something. So I wonder when people
compliment you, it's just like this external affirmation that I
represent something. I represent these words that they're sharing to me,
and what does that mean?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Right?

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Does that mean that I can never change? Does this
mean that I can't evolve? You know, does that mean
that I can't change? Or does that just affirm what
God's told me, you know, behind the scenes. And that's
still unnerving. So that was a thought that came to mind.
But yeah, I think that a lot of us can
identify with what it means to want to look for

(21:36):
the manifestation of God's goodness and a person.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
And I don't think that's all bad.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
I think that's actually why we're designed for community and
you represent that for a lot of women who look
like me.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, you tried to therapy me on the slide before
you moved to the next thing, and I want you
I did pick it up, girl.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
I don't know. I don't know if I don't.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Know if it's at what my instinct tells me that
it is that makes me uncomfortable, is that, like, I
do not think that I trust people to stay and
believe the same thing about me, And I think that
obviously I have experience that would point to that as
a point of pain, but I think it's also just

(22:21):
within the culture in general, that you know you love
someone the next day they say something you don't like
and then they're completely canceled. And so I think that
I could receive it if it felt certain, if it
felt like I don't want to say, if it felt
like truth, but if it felt like something that I

(22:41):
could really hang on to. But I do think definitely
the inenerch out of me is like rejected, don't receive it,
because if you come to trust it, they'll rip the
blanket off of you and you'll be back in this situation.
So I think that that's part of it. It makes
me feel uneasy even when, like, you know, the delegation
shows me a lot of love and like I want

(23:03):
to lean into it, but I also don't want to
need it. I don't want to trust it. And so
there's like this awkward dance of me not being able
to really see the impact of my life, my ministry,
the words because I'm so afraid of it being taken away.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Wow, that's so real.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
And I think that there's actually a middle ground between
like I fully accept it or I fully rejected, which
could be I'm grateful that how they feel about me
right now alignes with who God says I am, and
that may change, but it's really nice to hear God's
words coming from somebody else in the moment, you know,

(23:44):
and like saying I can save this right now, and
if you hate me tomorrow, that's all right. Yeah I
saved it yesterday. You know the proof, and yesterday can't
feed me today. It's already gone, it's already digested. So
like I can appreciate that right now you saw a
glimpse of who God.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Sees me to be, and that's beautiful. It's good. I
gotta figure because I just bes in there awkwardly, like.

Speaker 5 (24:09):
Glitching, definitely glitching, definitely don't know what to say back.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
You're welcome and you got the script in your head.
Yeah you know, Thank you so much. That means so much.
And they'll do this.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Right here because this is where it went.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
I just want you to know, regardless of how much
I'm glitching, it made its way in here.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Thank you so much. That means the world. Oh prayer hands,
Oh pray hands.

Speaker 5 (24:35):
Is when you've said something when they're going on a
little too long and you're just like, for sure, just
thinks stop talking though, Yeah, I mean, and then I'd
be like dig for something deep and all I can
come up with is you're you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
I don't know what to say. Yeah, yeah, what do
you want to say? Stop saying that, Stop saying what
you gonna do with me?

Speaker 3 (25:04):
How many sessions? And can I get a discount? Maybe
if you give me your shoes?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
There it is not stop saying that, girl, be quiet.

Speaker 5 (25:17):
Thanks, that's enough you topped me off today.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Oh but isn't it crazy that like we spend so
much time warding off the very thing that we like
have spent years crying.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Oh my gosh, I need.

Speaker 5 (25:31):
It because if they don't say it, I'll be like God,
do I matter?

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Do I have to get back?

Speaker 5 (25:37):
Like you?

Speaker 4 (25:38):
And like I I just think about the seasons of
my life where I was like face down on the ground,
looking absolutely bonkers, crying out like God, no one loves
me but you, No one sees me, no one cares me.
And now like uh dim And my good friend she
said this earlier, she said, you're seen, you were, and
I was like thank you, like I am seen. And

(26:01):
I think sometimes the enemy will make us want to
cringe when we receive the blessing we spent years like
asking God for And so now I'd be like I
am seen you know, and I enjoy it, and it's
okay to enjoy it. You ever feel guilty enjoying it
when people celebrate you, Yes, you got to pretend like

(26:23):
you're like fake humble, you know, but like I don't
remember where I heard it, but I remember hearing humble
is not downplaying your greatness. Humble is staying in the
assigned position God has placed you. This is the assigned position.
So uh yeah, I'm gonna receive the compliments and say
thank you so much. And I'm not gonna pretend I
don't like the perks because I would. I prayed for

(26:46):
these perks when I was in the hospital almost lost
my life with my son. I pray for these perks,
you know, when I was like wondering if I wanted
to live anymore. So I've been processing that in therapy,
how other people feel about me joyfully receiving what God's
blessed me with, because I think it makes other people uncomfortable,
and that's what makes me uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Okay, yeah, I think especially I'm protective, especially on social media,
because I really be trying to like make sure that
I take into consider all of the different scenarios. So
like there's too many of them. There's just so many,
it'd be one I missed. I didn't even realize that all.
Did you not think about the fact that I can't
wear the color of red? Yeah, she's gone now and

(27:29):
now I'm hurt. How dare you don't hear from the Lord?
And then all I do is add to the list
wear red and not wear red?

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Please choose side? No.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
I think that that's that's such a worthy journey of
learning to really stand in it without fear of coming
off as arrogant, un prideful, and.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
Being okay with other people wrestling with the reality that
to them I may be Yeah, that's a wrestle between
you and God. You know, that's that's hands on attack.
That's between you and him. I can't get into that
fight because I got my own battles. So if you're
upset about what it looks like for me to do
what God has called me to do, then I mean
it makes me think about Paul with the Disciples. They

(28:12):
didn't like anything he was doing, but like they watched
long enough to be like, Okay, maybe he was.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Really doing what God's called them to do. Let's partner
with him.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
So some people are in different parts of process, and
they may not like what I'm doing right now, how
I'm doing it, how I receive it. Either they'll catch
on or they won't. But I can't remember the names
of some of the people I cried over ten years ago.
Jesus right, literally, you know,