September 4, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of Black in the Green Room with Keith L. Underwood, Kerry Gordy — music executive, entrepreneur, and son of Motown founder Berry Gordy — shares stories of growing up surrounded by icons like The Temptations, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, and James Brown. Kerry explains how those experiences shaped his mission as a self-described “Robin Hood” for artists, working to protect musicians’ rights, reclaim royalties, and push for fairness in the industry. He also reflects on life lessons from his father, Berry Gordy, and why preserving Black music history matters for the next generation. The conversation also touches on his role as executive producer of Netflix’s “Sunday Best: The Untold Story of Ed Sullivan,” highlighting how Sullivan opened a national platform for Black performers at a pivotal moment in American culture. 🎧 Tune in for a powerful interview connecting Motown’s legacy, cultural preservation, and Kerry Gordy’s vision for protecting artists today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are black in the green room with me, your host,
Keith Underwood, and this is your spot for real talk
about entertainment with entertainers, creatives and show viz professionals.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We welcome a man whose life and work are woven
into the fabric of American music history. As the son
of Motown founder Barry Gordy, Carrie Gordy has built an
impressive career in his own right, from artist management to
business ventures that bridge music, television, and cultural storytelling. His
latest project, Sunday Best, The Untold Story of That Sullivan
(00:36):
on Netflix, takes us behind the curtain of a television
legend who broke racial barriers and open doors for countless
black artists to shine on a national stage. Carries work
both honors at Sullivan's courageous inclusivity and reminds us how
moments of representation can shape generations.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Carrie Gordy, Welcome to the room.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
What's happening, Keith? My brother?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
How you doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
You know what? My life is amazing. I'm doing great.
If you can imagine, if you can imagine growing up
from from a child in the Motown universe. Yes, friends
were the Temptations and Michael Jackson and Dinnah Rosson, Stevie
Wonder and Marvin Get if you can imagine growing up
(01:28):
in that let's call it the Kingdom of Motown, Yes,
where you're a prince, right, I have no complaints?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, that's that's wonderful man. I mean, you know, growing
up in the Gordy family. What's one lesson from your
father that still shapes the way you navigate the entertainment
industry today?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
What's that? I didn't hear what you said.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
No, I said, what's one lesson that you learned from
your pops that influence your how you navigate business today?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Okay? Well, first of all, the one, the one major
thing is if you have belief in something, you stick
with it until it comes to fruition. You don't give
up in it if you believe. Let me give you
an example. The Supremes went seven records or where did
(02:19):
our Love Go? And people were telling my father, you
got to drop the Supremes. They don't have hits, they
are no good. He's like, listen, that girl in the
front is amazing, and if we don't get a hit
on her, it's not her fault because I picked her
because I knew she was amazing. So we're gonna go.
(02:40):
We're gonna do everything that we have to do because
we got something wrong. Either we got the songs wrong,
or we got the marketing wrong, or we got the
distribution wrong, or we got you know whatever it the
promotion wrong. But the fact of the matter is is
that it's not their fault. It's our fault. And I'm
sticking with that. And I don't care if she never
(03:02):
has a hit because I know she's great. And that
was the same scenario with the Temptation they went. Temptations
went eight records. The way you do the things you
do right, people don't people don't know that. They think
that that was their first record, right. Stevie went three
four years between between Fingertips and I was made to
(03:24):
lover Right. People were saying, drop that little blind kid.
He's not blah blah. My father's like, I will never
drop Stevie. I don't care what happens. Right, So, if
you are good and you believe in yourself, don't let
those outside forces come and tell you, come and let
(03:46):
you go against your beliefs. Right. So, yes, that's the
biggest I guess business lesson that I got from him.
If you believe in it, believe in yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yea man, what you do to.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Keep yourself up during those downtime times when you're, you know,
trying to keep pushing forward with whatever that endeavor is.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Well, the key is is doing something that you love.
Because if you do something that you love and you aren't,
you're never working, You're always playing. So the fact of
the matter is is that I was always doing something
that I loved no matter what, and that gets you
through all of the negative stuff that other people where
(04:31):
other people would give up, right, and I'm doing something
that I love. So I would do this whether I'm
making money at it or whether I'm not making money
at it, because I love to do it. I'm sorry,
I love to play the keyboard, right, and so I'm
gonna sit down and play the keyboard whether somebody's paying
me or somebody's not paying me. But that's what I
love to do. I love working with artists. I'm gonna
(04:55):
do that whether I'm making money. Now, if you do
what you love, you're gonna be better at it because
you're doing something and you're getting all of this experience
on in it, right, And so that in You're gonna
be better at it because you love to do it.
Michael Jackson loved to dance, he loved to sing, Prince
(05:18):
loved to play, he loved to perform, he loved to write,
loved not just like he loved to do it. And
those guys would have done that had they never been successful,
they would have That's what they would have done.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Absolutely, you warned so many hats, Carrie. You've been a producer,
a manager, entrepreneur, rich role has been the most challenging
for you.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
And why, well, okay, so I've done First of all,
because my father owned Motown and I started in the
mail room.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Right for three years, right for three years, three years, wow.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I was able to go through every division of the
company and learn every every single division. And then I
was also able to be an artist. I was a
teen idol for a couple of years with Apollo right
right right right then. And I was also able to
go into business affairs and learn the legal side of
(06:21):
it and the finance side of it for two or
three years apiece. Right. So I have a very unique
perspective that most people don't have. And right now, as
you may or may not know, I'm kind of the
Robinhood of the music side of the entertainment business because
I'm the guy who terminates contracts for people who assigned
their rights over early in their careers, before they had
(06:42):
the leverage to make the best deals for themselves. So
I'm a guy who goes up against Universal, Sony, Warner Brothers, right,
and all of the major publishing companies. So what I loved,
What I loved, I guess, okay, all aspects of it.
I love producing records, I love producing films. I just
(07:06):
love it because the producer is the person who actually
puts it all together. You know, you're hiring everybody, You're
making sure you have the financi You're making sure you
have everything. I love producing, So whether it's a record
or whether it's a film, I love that. Management I
don't love so much. But the reason I don't love
(07:28):
it so much is because you do all of this
work for all of these people, You make them the
biggest stars in the world, and they get eighty percent
of your money, right right, No, I management is a
thing where you have to be, let's call it, a
(07:51):
high paid flunky and the best friend of that person.
So my greatest management client though, who I loved which people?
People can't believe that I say, this is my greatest
management client. Who's the one I loved the most, who
had the most fun with, who loved me the best?
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yes, Rick James, Bitch, come on now, Rick James, right,
I loved me some, Rick James man, Because Rick, even
though he was crazy and way out there and blah
blah blah.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
He believed in me and anything that I said, he did.
And it didn't matter if he was doing the drugs,
It didn't matter what it was. But if I wanted
to do it or if I said it, he did it.
And he no matter if he was drugged out or
whatever it is, he never missed his dates. Whenever I
needed PA, he was there. Yes, absolutely, very entrepreneurial, you know,
(08:57):
producing records for other people, I mean, and an amazing talent.
I think he was one of the best producers that
I worked with as well as a just a genuine producer.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yes, But you.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Know, the entertainment industry is very, very different nowadays than
the days of Motown. What do you think are some
of the biggest challenges for black creatives today.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, it's not just for black creatives. It's for all creatives.
The biggest challenge is is that in the early days
with Motown and Warner Brothers and all of these other companies,
you had a job, and we had a job. Your
job was to bring your talent. Our job was to
(09:46):
put the resources around you to exploit that talent, and
to market that talent and promote that talent, distribute that talent,
so forth and so on. Right now, So therefore, all
Michael Jackson in the beginning had to do was sing
(10:09):
and dance. That's what he had to do, right, and
he was exceptional at it. Okay, Now that saying Michael
Jackson would not only have to sing and dance, but
they would have to figure out a way to get
a social media presence so that they could get the
(10:33):
attention of someone who was going to put the resource
behind them. But the point it is is that the
person that's going to put the resource behind him that
marketing person. They're looking for you to market yourself before
they pick you up. And your skill your left brain,
(10:55):
right brain might not be a marketing skill. Skill might
be singing and dancing. Right. So, I don't know if
a'm Michael Jackson would have happened today. Wow, in the
developments in his development stages, obviously he became a writer
(11:16):
and a businessman. But the point is is that I
don't know if that same scenario what happened today with
someone who's just purely talented.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Mm hmm yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
What are your thoughts on talent versus social media presence?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Okay, first of all, I think that's it's the it's
the See, there are two cells that always have to
be made. The first cell is to the person that
you need to blow you up and sell you, right,
and then the second cell is when that person put
(11:57):
sends you out to the public. So it's much harder
for a person with nothing to say. Okay, listen, I'm
a great singer. I'm going to put myself on social
media and I'm going to make it happen for myself,
because realistically, they see it happen every once in a while, right,
(12:19):
And let's say, let's say one hundred people a year
blow up from the internet, right, and all of these
millions and eighty ninety million kids see this and they think, oh,
that can happen for me. But literally, if you're talking
about one hundred million kids and one hundred people who
blow up. That's one in a million.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Right, the odds are still against.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
You, literally one in a million. What was the question
I forgot you?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
No, I was asking what were your thoughts on talent
versus social media presence?
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Oh oh yes, so you were moving in. What I'm
saying is is that and these executive all they want
to do is see that you have an audience that
they can now commission. So if you have a ten
million audience, you might not be as talented as somebody
that has fifty thousand audience, but they're going to go
(13:16):
to the ten million audience. Now here's the thing. You
can have ten million audience because you're sitting up on
the internet going I want to tiet, I want to twet. Right. Yes,
so talent, but you got the but you got the viewership.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Right, yes.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So I think it's it's it's rougher if you're a
legitimate artist, because what is what makes a statement in
social media is usually what is outrageous, what is shocking? Right?
(13:57):
I mean I can't imagine there being a sexy red
when I was a child.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I mean that is.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Just it's ridiculous. Kids should not be listening to the
fourteen year old girl should not be listening to waitmen,
what can I say on here?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
You can't you can't say the big words.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Okay, well here's the thing can I say? And you
might have to cut it out. Sexy Red says, you
know my koochie, pink, my booty whole brown?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yea the hell? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Right? That is horrible, right, but it's shocking and it
gets visibility, and someone at a major record company said,
I'm gonna sign that, right.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
So, so Carrie, what do you what do you think
happened to class? You know? Where? Where? Where did that be?
When did that become unpopular?
Speaker 4 (14:59):
When the major companies realized that they could make money
by the degradation of the black human race, I think,
and maybe I went too far in saying that, but
I'm saying that when they saw that they could make
(15:20):
money off of felonious activities and dumbing down the black
race and making it cool to be illiterate and making
it cool to be felonious, right, I think that that
(15:43):
was That's a real issue for us as a people,
because we had done so much to get out of there.
And that's where I want to go to the Ed
Sullivan documentary that we that we did, because what that
documentary speaks to is everything that uh that I'm about
(16:08):
to tell you, you just have to tell me when we
get the break, So on the next on the next segment,
I can I can come back and talk about that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right right, right, Yeah, absolutely, We're gonna talk a lot
about the project. I just want to get the audience
to get to know you and you know kind of
where you where you stand on most most definitely, man,
what what has besides that Sullivan? Because we hope that
that blows up and it's very very successful.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
It's blowing up. It's blowing up thanks to people like you,
people like Kathy Hughes, people like Danny Bakwell, people like
Jesse Jackson, Jesse Jackson Junior, the nub A c P,
the a f C, the American UH African American Film
(16:54):
Critics Association, and and all of those people Al Sharpton
and Don Lemon and the people that are coming to say,
KG we want we want people to hear this story
because this is a story that people need to hear.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yes, what do you want? What do you want?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Like younger folks to know most about Ed Sullivan and
what he did well.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
First of all, see there's six degrees of separation here, okay.
And what happens is is that without Ed Sullivan popularizing
our black are, our black entertainers and heroes, and humanizing
(17:42):
them and making them look like people as opposed to
these animals that we were portrayed to be, right, there
would be today that we would not have had a
black president because it was that thirty five to fifty
(18:05):
million audience that Ed Sullivan gave us the ability to
be seen by at a time when there were no zero,
no black people on TV. He introduced us to Sammy
Davis Junior. He introduced us to nat King Cole, He
introduced us to Satchmo. He introduced us to Dinnah Ross
(18:27):
and Michael Jackson. Right, people don't realize the struggle we
went through just to get on TV. I mean, the
Civil rights struggle and everything that was going on at
the time. It's like these kids don't. It's like it
(18:48):
was ancient history. And by the way, it wasn't that
long ago because I got to see it. You know,
when I was a kid. When I was a kid,
people would say stuff like, you know, you can be
anything you want, you can be president of the United States. Right.
And the thing about it is is I would hear that,
but I had no reference for that, and in my mind,
(19:12):
I was like, I can't be president in the United States, right.
But six fifty years later, my daughter has actually seen
a black president and seen two black girls living in
the White House, so her perspective is I really can
(19:32):
be president. Right. What I'm saying is is that had
it not been for Ed Sullivan to give this platform,
then Barry Gordy, who developed Michael Jackson, would not have
had the platform to put his stuff on Ed Sullivan,
(19:54):
which then he decides, I'm going to take this Michael Jackson,
and I'm going to do a movie with Michael and
Diana and Quincy and we're gonna do The Wiz. Now,
when he does The Wiz, Michael and Quincy decide that
they're gonna do an album together, and they do Thriller,
(20:14):
and it becomes the biggest album in the world. Okay,
And because it was the biggest album in the world,
he's seen by Steven Spielberg, who is the biggest director
in the world, and Stephen says to Quincy, why don't
we produce a movie together, the Color Purple. So Quincy
(20:35):
and Steve and Steven Spielberg are producing this movie. And
while they're producing this movie, Quincy is in Chicago and
he sees this regional talk show host Oprah Winfrey and says,
I want to put her in my movie. And he
puts her in the movie, and through that popularity her show,
(20:57):
gang's national attention. Right, and then she's like, wait a minute,
I have this platform. I'm gonna support this black candidate
for president, Barack Obama, and he becomes president of the
United States based on all of these things that happened previously,
(21:17):
six degrees of separation. The kids do not understand that
right before that, there were no black people on TV
at all, and it was a very, very it was
a plan not to ever let it happen. The kids
(21:38):
gotta know that. And there's another thing. We don't want
the kids to lose their history. Right. The fact of
the matter is is I was talking to a couple
of college graduates the other day and I was telling them, oh, yeah,
you know, I'm doing something with Stevie Wonder and they
were like, who's that. Yeah. I was like, what, how
(21:59):
can you college graduates not know who Stevie Wonder is
twenty four years old. What are you talking about? They said, well,
we don't know Stevie Wonder. I said, you've never heard
of Stevie Wonder. They said no. I said, well, you've
definitely heard of the songs and they said, we don't
think so. And then I went Happy Birth of Day. Yeah,
and they were like, oh, yeah, right, check this out.
(22:23):
Stevie was the first act on Motown to go on
The Ed Sullivan Show, and because of his popularity, we
have the Martin Luther King Holiday because he was the
champion in that cost.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yes, absolutely, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
What was it about, you know, growing up in this
environment and around Ed Sullivan? What was it about that
made you want to tell his story?
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Okay, first of all, there's a couple of things. The
first thing is, when I was a child, it was
the only place that I could see people that looked
like me. And obviously I was very young. So the
person that I got to see which made me excited
was Michael Jackson. But we got to see people that
(23:14):
looked like us for the first time, and so that
was a thing. So what happens is is that on
Sunday nights, people would rush home to make sure that
they got to see Ed Sullivan and a lot of
people didn't have TVs, so a lot of people would
come over my house or go to a friend's house
(23:35):
that had a TV so that they could all watch
the Ed Sullivan Show. Because you didn't know whether it
was gonna be the Temptations and that King Cole the
gladys Knight, whoever it was gonna be, but there was
perhaps gonna be somebody black on his show, and that
made us feel like amazing. So that was the inspiration.
(24:00):
Now what happens is Margo Special, who is the granddaughter
of of of Ed Sullivan. She wanted to do a
documentary on her grandfather. Okay, and as she was conjuring
up this idea to do this documentary, she has this
(24:24):
happenstance meeting with Shabba's ambassador of Shabaz, which is Malcolm
X's daughter. And so now she's just meeting with Malcolm
X's daughter and Malcolm X's daughter is saying, oh my gosh,
you're such a star to us, and she's like, what
are you talking about? Your your grandfather, Your grandfather was
(24:46):
so important to our family, and she said, what do
you mean? And then she told the same story that
I just told. It was the only place that we
can go to see people that look like us. He's
a hero. He's a hero. And then she Margo got
the idea, oh, well, you know what, maybe we'll do
(25:06):
it from that perspective. So now she takes her production
company and she goes and she meets with a guy
by the name of Rafi Marmore who is the owner
of Delirial Delirial Films, right, and now they collectively go
(25:30):
to look for a director that they feel can tell
this story from that incredible perspective. Right, So they end
up finding Sasha Jenkins. And of course Sasha Jenkins, you know,
he did the Fifty Cents bio, he did the Bes
(25:52):
Boys bio. He did he was a writer on The Boondogs.
He was editor for By magazine. Yeah, yeah, about By Magazine,
and uh, he was just the perfect person. Now what
happens is is I had worked on two projects with
Sasha before this. I worked on the Bizmarque documentary and
(26:16):
I worked on the Rick James documentary. Okay, so naturally
when they got with him, he called me and said, hey,
I would like you to executive produce on this documentary
with us because of your you know, your skill set,
your history, your contact based blah blah blah. Right right,
(26:37):
And so I said, but you know the where they
need to come from. He said, yeah, you don't even
have to talk about I know it. And the thing
about it is is that how he knew it, I
don't quite know because he was a little younger and
he never got to see the actual show. Well, once
(27:01):
he got and he saw the footage that Margot was
able to provide and all of this kind of stuff,
he was all in. So the inspiration from this whole
thing came from Margot Special who is the grand and
(27:23):
daughter of of of Ed Sullivan, and it's been a
passion project for her because she's been she's been involved
in this project maybe maybe ten years. I just got
involved three years ago. Uh to you know, kind of
to to after Sasha, after Sasha got involved.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, Carrie, what what was it? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, maybe not think, but actually no from Margot or
anybody else behind the scenes. Why was pushing us forward?
Why was that so important to Ed Sullivan?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
The reason it was so important to Ed is because
when Ed came over to the United States. His parents
were immigrants, Irish immigrants, and at that time, the Irish
wore the looked down upon people, and they were looked
(28:15):
at as drunkards, they were looked at as lazy, they
were looked at as stupid, they were you know, they
were looked at negatively. And Aunt Sullivan's father knew that
that was ridiculous and uh, and he passed that down
(28:35):
to his children, but not to mention that they lived
in Harlem. So what happens is is now At Sullivan
grew up having black friends and understanding that black people
were just people, just like all people. And he thought
(28:56):
that it was ridiculous to discriminate someone based on just
the color of their skin. And so his thing was
is that, no, I am not going to discriminate. My
criteria for my show is do they entertain me? And
(29:21):
will they entertain my audience? Right? And it just so
happens that black people, hello, are the best. We create
the culture, We create the coolness. We create all of
the stuff, the music, the whole shot right.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
The dancing, everything right.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
We create that culture. It becomes cool after the black
people embrace it. And he knew that from the beginning,
so he also was fearless in saying, listen, I don't
care what the sponsors tell me I can't do. If
(30:04):
the sponsors don't want to do it, then I don't
need them, right, which is a very dangerous place to be. Absolutely,
if the kukus Klan doesn't want me to do it,
then too bad. I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
If the broadcasters say that I can't touch the hand
of one of my black female guests because that is
too salacious or whatever it is, or too accepting, right,
I'm gonna do it because these are my friends, and
(30:40):
they are the most talented, and they're the ones who
came to my age when I needed them, not the
white people. It was the black people that came and
and and did you know showed up for him to
help him when he was in need, not the white people.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yes, so, Carrie, I mean.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
For Ed Sullivan, he introduced groups like the Temptations and
the Supremes to and James Brown's two very very large audiences.
Out of all of those performances and your experiences watching
this on TV, which one stood out the most to you?
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Well, here's the thing, Because of where I came up.
I have to say I was overjoyed by the Jackson five.
The Jackson five were my idea of there cannot be
a better group. That was my idea at the time.
(31:46):
Now as it went to performers, James Brown was the
first person that made me want to be a performer
because James Brown was literally and there's a lot of
times when you see these documentaries on James Brown and stuff,
(32:09):
they they show him, but they don't show how incredible
he really really was. His dancing, uh, and and people
just and people didn't even realize that James Brown could sing.
They just thought it just yeah, I could sing his
(32:30):
butt off, right. And also people said, he's not taking
He's not he's not saying anything in his songs. He's
not saying his songs aren't that great? Right, But I
say submit to you that you know when he said
stuff like a woman's got to do what you got
to get, just the what you won't you know, that
(32:50):
is a real thing.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
That's poetry.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
That's poetry, yes, you know. Uh. But my my point
is is that it was James Brown, which would probably
be my number one performer all time, Michael Jackson, which
would probably be my number one love of all time,
(33:14):
and I probably the greatest. I mean, these these two
guys are probably the two greatest performers ever in the
history of performances in the music business. And everybody else
is secondary. Now, there were other great musicians, right that
(33:35):
were in incredible, like Prince and Jimmy Hendricks and folks
like that, Right, but yes, I have to tell you
it was James Brown and Michael Jackson and the Jackson
Jackson let me say the Jackson five right, it was.
It was a thing. It was a thing. And plus
(33:56):
their songs were so good and so well written. See,
people thought that those songs that the Jacksons did were
teeny bop. Right, Let's see, Uh what does he say? Uh? Ale,
Let's see uh the one look one those other guys
that put you down, So this is let's see, then
(34:18):
ruin your reputation and may label you a flirt. The
way they talk about you, they'll turn your name to dirt.
You know. Listen, listen to this, Listen to this. Isaac
said he kissed you beneath the apple tree. When Benji
held your hand, he felt electricity. When Alexander called you,
(34:39):
he said he ranged your chimes and Christopher discovered Your
Way Ahead of Your Time. I mean that was a
history lesson inside of the song. People didn't understand that
these songs were great. ABC wasn't a teeny bar song.
(35:00):
What they were saying was ABC is easy as one
two three, simple as do ray me ABC one two three,
Baby You and Me. That's how easy love should be.
If it's not as easy as the ABC's, then it's
really not love. It needs to be that easy. It
(35:22):
needs to be that easy. It needs to be that simple.
And if you're with somebody and it's not that simple,
then it's not you love.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yes, all right, Carrie for you if you Without telling
too much, what's your favorite part in the documentary again,
I hate.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
This well, okay, so I have so many favorite parts
of the documentary. I love the intro when everybody is
everybody is coming in and you can kind of see
what the Ed Sullivan show was about and the type
of talent and in the type of talent that he
had in the In the doc I love the the
(36:04):
Harry Belafonte uh talking about the civil rights and all
that he had to do in order not to be
black listed in black Balled and it was Ed Sullivan
that saved him. I love that. I love the backstory
(36:25):
behind how Ed Sullivan went from a journalist to an
entertainment guy. I love that. And then too, I love
when Stevie Wonder did that harmonica thing. When he did
that harmonica thing and I was shocked at how really
(36:48):
good he was at thirteen years old. And then I
loved the I love that that Jackson five, that Jackson
five thing, that the that they did and can you
can you imagine? Check this out? So they do a year,
they do Sullivan a couple of times in this year.
(37:08):
The first year, first year, right right, their first tour
Listen to this. Their first tour was at Madison Square Garden.
Who in their first tour does Madison Square Garden. That's
because of the popularity. I mean, they got fifty million
(37:28):
people to fallow, fifty million kids to fall in love
with them immediately after that first show. Who are these kids? Right?
And they were great?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
That's amazing, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
What's next on the horizon for well, you know, I
got another question for you, Ed Sullivan. He was very
very responsible for pushing black excellence into the mainstream. Do
you think that me today? Do they still have that responsibility.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
And why well, first of all, I don't think they
have that responsibility. As a matter of fact, I think
it's the opposite. And I think that the way that
the new administration is looking at it, it's it's not
even it's not even a relevant issue right. As a
matter of fact, it's going backwards, you know, taking the
(38:26):
history out of books and all this kind of stuff.
It's going backwards. But I think that what needs to
happen is somebody like me, uh, with passion and purpose
needs to continue doing these kind of things, and people
(38:48):
like you need to continue to support that thing. And
then everybody that hear's you needs to say, you know what,
let me do my part and spread the word so
our people know what Keith is saying about what Carrie
is doing. Right, That is what needs to happen. And
(39:14):
people need to educate their children on our history. They
need to These kids need to know that it just
didn't start here, you know with Kendrick Lamar, right, it didn't.
It didn't start here because Kendrick can basically say anything
he wants to say. It wasn't like that in the beginning.
(39:38):
We we could not even put black faces on our
album covers. Can you imagine my father put white people
playing white people sitting on the beach with a beach
ball on an Isley Brothers cover. Think about that. I
(39:58):
don't know anybody less black than the Isley Brothers, right,
But in order to get racked in the stores, right
and and and in order to sell the product, especially
in the South, you could not sell a product that
had a black face on it, and it certainly wouldn't
(40:20):
be racked in a retail store.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
So that was the uh that was. That was the
way it was then, and we need to we need
to do whatever we can to make sure that everybody knows,
especially that next generation. Because here's the thing. If this
(40:50):
generation that we're in right now loses this and doesn't
put this word out, that next generation is not going
to even know Motown. We're definitely two generations from losing
Michael Jackson, if if if if if we if we
don't talk about it, right, I'm losing Stevie Wonder from
(41:12):
losing Luther Van Draws from losing all of those things.
But you know, ain't nobody gonna lose Elvis And ain't
nobody gonna lose the Beatles.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Right, very interesting point, that's right, right, yes, yes, carry Gordy.
How can everybody check out Sunday Best Sunday Best.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
It's easy, go to Netflix and put in Sunday Best.
Right on some people's it'll be on the crawl because
they you know, they they've liked things that are similar. Right.
But if it's not on your crawl, then go and
(41:55):
you can find it in New you know, under the
New or you can type type it in Sunday Best
Netflix and make sure to give it the two thumbs
up because that way it creates that algorithm that they
can see We're already most liked. I mean they were
already in the most like category, which is great. We've
(42:17):
had over five hundred positive reviews. We came out with
one hundred percent on Rotten Tomatoes. Yes, we got five
stars in the New York Times. Right, I mean, this
thing has taken It's taken its own life. And now
(42:38):
people are calling me. You know, I'm a filmmaker and
I've done three films. Well I'm on my fourth film
right now, but I've done three films, and now, over
the last two weeks, I've been bombarded with people, can
you make my film with me? Can you do this?
Can we can we get together? And blah blah blah. Right,
they have no clue of what it takes to get
a filmmaker, especially as it relates to sound recording and
(43:05):
performance arts rights in publishing.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Right right, right, it's rough. It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Well, you know we Carrie, this has been phenomenal. I'm
going to have to bring you back on this show
so we can just even talk about more about just
the business of the industry. Yeah, this has been fantastic.
Where can everybody find you on social media?
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Okay? At Carrie Gordy Official. I'm on Instagram all right
at carry Gordy Official.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yes, Living Legacy, Carrie Gordy, thank you so much for
joining me on Black in the Great Room on KPLA
Talk fifteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
I appreciate your time so much.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
Man, this was great, And thank you for spreading the
word and and and and helping the kids know and
everybody know that there's things out there that they really
need to know about from a cultural and historical perspective.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Absolutely, I definitely agree.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
It's Sunday Best on Netflix, all right. Storia The Untold
Story of Ed Sullivan from a black perspective.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yes, absolutely absolutely and we love it when it's black.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Carrie Cordy, thank you again for your time. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
Good deal.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
You are black in the green room with me, your
host Keith Underwood, and this is your spot for real
talk about entertainment with the entertainers, creatives and showbiz professionals.
You are black in the green room with me, your host,
Keith Underwood, and this is your spot for real talk
about entertainment with entertainers, creatives and show viz professionals.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We welcome a man whose life and work are woven
into the fabric of American music history. As the son
of Motown founder Barry Gordy, Carrie Gordy has built an
impressive career in his own right, from artist management to
business ventures that bridge music, television, and cultural storytelling. His
latest project, Sunday Best, The Untold Story of That Sullivan
(00:36):
on Netflix, takes us behind the curtain of a television
legend who broke racial barriers and open doors for countless
black artists to shine on a national stage. Carries work
both honors at Sullivan's courageous inclusivity and reminds us how
moments of representation can shape generations.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Carrie Gordy, Welcome to the room.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
What's happening, Keith? My brother?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
How you doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
You know what? My life is amazing. I'm doing great.
If you can imagine, if you can imagine growing up
from from a child in the Motown universe. Yes, friends
were the Temptations and Michael Jackson and Dinnah Rosson, Stevie
Wonder and Marvin Get if you can imagine growing up
(01:28):
in that let's call it the Kingdom of Motown, Yes,
where you're a prince, right, I have no complaints?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, that's that's wonderful man. I mean, you know, growing
up in the Gordy family. What's one lesson from your
father that still shapes the way you navigate the entertainment
industry today?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
What's that? I didn't hear what you said.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
No, I said, what's one lesson that you learned from
your pops that influence your how you navigate business today?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Okay? Well, first of all, the one, the one major
thing is if you have belief in something, you stick
with it until it comes to fruition. You don't give
up in it if you believe. Let me give you
an example. The Supremes went seven records or where did
(02:19):
our Love Go? And people were telling my father, you
got to drop the Supremes. They don't have hits, they
are no good. He's like, listen, that girl in the
front is amazing, and if we don't get a hit
on her, it's not her fault because I picked her
because I knew she was amazing. So we're gonna go.
(02:40):
We're gonna do everything that we have to do because
we got something wrong. Either we got the songs wrong,
or we got the marketing wrong, or we got the
distribution wrong, or we got you know whatever it the
promotion wrong. But the fact of the matter is is
that it's not their fault. It's our fault. And I'm
sticking with that. And I don't care if she never
(03:02):
has a hit because I know she's great. And that
was the same scenario with the Temptation they went. Temptations
went eight records. The way you do the things you
do right, people don't people don't know that. They think
that that was their first record, right. Stevie went three
four years between between Fingertips and I was made to
(03:24):
lover Right. People were saying, drop that little blind kid.
He's not blah blah. My father's like, I will never
drop Stevie. I don't care what happens. Right, So, if
you are good and you believe in yourself, don't let
those outside forces come and tell you, come and let
(03:46):
you go against your beliefs. Right. So, yes, that's the
biggest I guess business lesson that I got from him.
If you believe in it, believe in yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yea man, what you do to.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Keep yourself up during those downtime times when you're, you know,
trying to keep pushing forward with whatever that endeavor is.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Well, the key is is doing something that you love.
Because if you do something that you love and you aren't,
you're never working, You're always playing. So the fact of
the matter is is that I was always doing something
that I loved no matter what, and that gets you
through all of the negative stuff that other people where
(04:31):
other people would give up, right, and I'm doing something
that I love. So I would do this whether I'm
making money at it or whether I'm not making money
at it, because I love to do it. I'm sorry,
I love to play the keyboard, right, and so I'm
gonna sit down and play the keyboard whether somebody's paying
me or somebody's not paying me. But that's what I
love to do. I love working with artists. I'm gonna
(04:55):
do that whether I'm making money. Now, if you do
what you love, you're gonna be better at it because
you're doing something and you're getting all of this experience
on in it, right, And so that in You're gonna
be better at it because you love to do it.
Michael Jackson loved to dance, he loved to sing, Prince
(05:18):
loved to play, he loved to perform, he loved to write,
loved not just like he loved to do it. And
those guys would have done that had they never been successful,
they would have That's what they would have done.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Absolutely, you warned so many hats, Carrie. You've been a producer,
a manager, entrepreneur, rich role has been the most challenging
for you.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
And why, well, okay, so I've done First of all,
because my father owned Motown and I started in the
mail room.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Right for three years, right for three years, three years, wow.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I was able to go through every division of the
company and learn every every single division. And then I
was also able to be an artist. I was a
teen idol for a couple of years with Apollo right
right right right then. And I was also able to
go into business affairs and learn the legal side of
(06:21):
it and the finance side of it for two or
three years apiece. Right. So I have a very unique
perspective that most people don't have. And right now, as
you may or may not know, I'm kind of the
Robinhood of the music side of the entertainment business because
I'm the guy who terminates contracts for people who assigned
their rights over early in their careers, before they had
(06:42):
the leverage to make the best deals for themselves. So
I'm a guy who goes up against Universal, Sony, Warner Brothers, right,
and all of the major publishing companies. So what I loved,
What I loved, I guess, okay, all aspects of it.
I love producing records, I love producing films. I just
(07:06):
love it because the producer is the person who actually
puts it all together. You know, you're hiring everybody, You're
making sure you have the financi You're making sure you
have everything. I love producing, So whether it's a record
or whether it's a film, I love that. Management I
don't love so much. But the reason I don't love
(07:28):
it so much is because you do all of this
work for all of these people, You make them the
biggest stars in the world, and they get eighty percent
of your money, right right, No, I management is a
thing where you have to be, let's call it, a
(07:51):
high paid flunky and the best friend of that person.
So my greatest management client though, who I loved which people?
People can't believe that I say, this is my greatest
management client. Who's the one I loved the most, who
had the most fun with, who loved me the best?
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yes, Rick James, Bitch, come on now, Rick James, right,
I loved me some, Rick James man, Because Rick, even
though he was crazy and way out there and blah
blah blah.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
He believed in me and anything that I said, he did.
And it didn't matter if he was doing the drugs,
It didn't matter what it was. But if I wanted
to do it or if I said it, he did it.
And he no matter if he was drugged out or
whatever it is, he never missed his dates. Whenever I
needed PA, he was there. Yes, absolutely, very entrepreneurial, you know,
(08:57):
producing records for other people, I mean, and an amazing talent.
I think he was one of the best producers that
I worked with as well as a just a genuine producer.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yes, But you.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Know, the entertainment industry is very, very different nowadays than
the days of Motown. What do you think are some
of the biggest challenges for black creatives today.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, it's not just for black creatives. It's for all creatives.
The biggest challenge is is that in the early days
with Motown and Warner Brothers and all of these other companies,
you had a job, and we had a job. Your
job was to bring your talent. Our job was to
(09:46):
put the resources around you to exploit that talent, and
to market that talent and promote that talent, distribute that talent,
so forth and so on. Right now, So therefore, all
Michael Jackson in the beginning had to do was sing
(10:09):
and dance. That's what he had to do, right, and
he was exceptional at it. Okay, Now that saying Michael
Jackson would not only have to sing and dance, but
they would have to figure out a way to get
a social media presence so that they could get the
(10:33):
attention of someone who was going to put the resource
behind them. But the point it is is that the
person that's going to put the resource behind him that
marketing person. They're looking for you to market yourself before
they pick you up. And your skill your left brain,
(10:55):
right brain might not be a marketing skill. Skill might
be singing and dancing. Right. So, I don't know if
a'm Michael Jackson would have happened today. Wow, in the
developments in his development stages, obviously he became a writer
(11:16):
and a businessman. But the point is is that I
don't know if that same scenario what happened today with
someone who's just purely talented.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Mm hmm yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
What are your thoughts on talent versus social media presence?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Okay, first of all, I think that's it's the it's
the See, there are two cells that always have to
be made. The first cell is to the person that
you need to blow you up and sell you, right,
and then the second cell is when that person put
(11:57):
sends you out to the public. So it's much harder
for a person with nothing to say. Okay, listen, I'm
a great singer. I'm going to put myself on social
media and I'm going to make it happen for myself,
because realistically, they see it happen every once in a while, right,
(12:19):
And let's say, let's say one hundred people a year
blow up from the internet, right, and all of these
millions and eighty ninety million kids see this and they think, oh,
that can happen for me. But literally, if you're talking
about one hundred million kids and one hundred people who
blow up. That's one in a million.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Right, the odds are still against.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
You, literally one in a million. What was the question
I forgot you?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
No, I was asking what were your thoughts on talent
versus social media presence?
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Oh oh yes, so you were moving in. What I'm
saying is is that and these executive all they want
to do is see that you have an audience that
they can now commission. So if you have a ten
million audience, you might not be as talented as somebody
that has fifty thousand audience, but they're going to go
(13:16):
to the ten million audience. Now here's the thing. You
can have ten million audience because you're sitting up on
the internet going I want to tiet, I want to twet. Right. Yes,
so talent, but you got the but you got the viewership.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Right, yes.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So I think it's it's it's rougher if you're a
legitimate artist, because what is what makes a statement in
social media is usually what is outrageous, what is shocking? Right?
(13:57):
I mean I can't imagine there being a sexy red
when I was a child.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I mean that is.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Just it's ridiculous. Kids should not be listening to the
fourteen year old girl should not be listening to waitmen,
what can I say on here?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
You can't you can't say the big words.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Okay, well here's the thing can I say? And you
might have to cut it out. Sexy Red says, you
know my koochie, pink, my booty whole brown?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yea the hell? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Right? That is horrible, right, but it's shocking and it
gets visibility, and someone at a major record company said,
I'm gonna sign that, right.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
So, so Carrie, what do you what do you think
happened to class? You know? Where? Where? Where did that be?
When did that become unpopular?
Speaker 4 (14:59):
When the major companies realized that they could make money
by the degradation of the black human race, I think,
and maybe I went too far in saying that, but
I'm saying that when they saw that they could make
(15:20):
money off of felonious activities and dumbing down the black
race and making it cool to be illiterate and making
it cool to be felonious, right, I think that that
(15:43):
was That's a real issue for us as a people,
because we had done so much to get out of there.
And that's where I want to go to the Ed
Sullivan documentary that we that we did, because what that
documentary speaks to is everything that uh that I'm about
(16:08):
to tell you, you just have to tell me when we
get the break, So on the next on the next segment,
I can I can come back and talk about that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right right, right, Yeah, absolutely, We're gonna talk a lot
about the project. I just want to get the audience
to get to know you and you know kind of
where you where you stand on most most definitely, man,
what what has besides that Sullivan? Because we hope that
that blows up and it's very very successful.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
It's blowing up. It's blowing up thanks to people like you,
people like Kathy Hughes, people like Danny Bakwell, people like
Jesse Jackson, Jesse Jackson Junior, the nub A c P,
the a f C, the American UH African American Film
(16:54):
Critics Association, and and all of those people Al Sharpton
and Don Lemon and the people that are coming to say,
KG we want we want people to hear this story
because this is a story that people need to hear.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yes, what do you want? What do you want?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Like younger folks to know most about Ed Sullivan and
what he did well.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
First of all, see there's six degrees of separation here, okay.
And what happens is is that without Ed Sullivan popularizing
our black are, our black entertainers and heroes, and humanizing
(17:42):
them and making them look like people as opposed to
these animals that we were portrayed to be, right, there
would be today that we would not have had a
black president because it was that thirty five to fifty
(18:05):
million audience that Ed Sullivan gave us the ability to
be seen by at a time when there were no zero,
no black people on TV. He introduced us to Sammy
Davis Junior. He introduced us to nat King Cole, He
introduced us to Satchmo. He introduced us to Dinnah Ross
(18:27):
and Michael Jackson. Right, people don't realize the struggle we
went through just to get on TV. I mean, the
Civil rights struggle and everything that was going on at
the time. It's like these kids don't. It's like it
(18:48):
was ancient history. And by the way, it wasn't that
long ago because I got to see it. You know,
when I was a kid. When I was a kid,
people would say stuff like, you know, you can be
anything you want, you can be president of the United States. Right.
And the thing about it is is I would hear that,
but I had no reference for that, and in my mind,
(19:12):
I was like, I can't be president in the United States, right.
But six fifty years later, my daughter has actually seen
a black president and seen two black girls living in
the White House, so her perspective is I really can
(19:32):
be president. Right. What I'm saying is is that had
it not been for Ed Sullivan to give this platform,
then Barry Gordy, who developed Michael Jackson, would not have
had the platform to put his stuff on Ed Sullivan,
(19:54):
which then he decides, I'm going to take this Michael Jackson,
and I'm going to do a movie with Michael and
Diana and Quincy and we're gonna do The Wiz. Now,
when he does The Wiz, Michael and Quincy decide that
they're gonna do an album together, and they do Thriller,
(20:14):
and it becomes the biggest album in the world. Okay,
And because it was the biggest album in the world,
he's seen by Steven Spielberg, who is the biggest director
in the world, and Stephen says to Quincy, why don't
we produce a movie together, the Color Purple. So Quincy
(20:35):
and Steve and Steven Spielberg are producing this movie. And
while they're producing this movie, Quincy is in Chicago and
he sees this regional talk show host Oprah Winfrey and says,
I want to put her in my movie. And he
puts her in the movie, and through that popularity her show,
(20:57):
gang's national attention. Right, and then she's like, wait a minute,
I have this platform. I'm gonna support this black candidate
for president, Barack Obama, and he becomes president of the
United States based on all of these things that happened previously,
(21:17):
six degrees of separation. The kids do not understand that
right before that, there were no black people on TV
at all, and it was a very, very it was
a plan not to ever let it happen. The kids
(21:38):
gotta know that. And there's another thing. We don't want
the kids to lose their history. Right. The fact of
the matter is is I was talking to a couple
of college graduates the other day and I was telling them, oh, yeah,
you know, I'm doing something with Stevie Wonder and they
were like, who's that. Yeah. I was like, what, how
(21:59):
can you college graduates not know who Stevie Wonder is
twenty four years old. What are you talking about? They said, well,
we don't know Stevie Wonder. I said, you've never heard
of Stevie Wonder. They said no. I said, well, you've
definitely heard of the songs and they said, we don't
think so. And then I went Happy Birth of Day. Yeah,
and they were like, oh, yeah, right, check this out.
(22:23):
Stevie was the first act on Motown to go on
The Ed Sullivan Show, and because of his popularity, we
have the Martin Luther King Holiday because he was the
champion in that cost.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yes, absolutely, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
What was it about, you know, growing up in this
environment and around Ed Sullivan? What was it about that
made you want to tell his story?
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Okay, first of all, there's a couple of things. The
first thing is, when I was a child, it was
the only place that I could see people that looked
like me. And obviously I was very young. So the
person that I got to see which made me excited
was Michael Jackson. But we got to see people that
(23:14):
looked like us for the first time, and so that
was a thing. So what happens is is that on
Sunday nights, people would rush home to make sure that
they got to see Ed Sullivan and a lot of
people didn't have TVs, so a lot of people would
come over my house or go to a friend's house
(23:35):
that had a TV so that they could all watch
the Ed Sullivan Show. Because you didn't know whether it
was gonna be the Temptations and that King Cole the
gladys Knight, whoever it was gonna be, but there was
perhaps gonna be somebody black on his show, and that
made us feel like amazing. So that was the inspiration.
(24:00):
Now what happens is Margo Special, who is the granddaughter
of of of Ed Sullivan. She wanted to do a
documentary on her grandfather. Okay, and as she was conjuring
up this idea to do this documentary, she has this
(24:24):
happenstance meeting with Shabba's ambassador of Shabaz, which is Malcolm
X's daughter. And so now she's just meeting with Malcolm
X's daughter and Malcolm X's daughter is saying, oh my gosh,
you're such a star to us, and she's like, what
are you talking about? Your your grandfather, Your grandfather was
(24:46):
so important to our family, and she said, what do
you mean? And then she told the same story that
I just told. It was the only place that we
can go to see people that look like us. He's
a hero. He's a hero. And then she Margo got
the idea, oh, well, you know what, maybe we'll do
(25:06):
it from that perspective. So now she takes her production
company and she goes and she meets with a guy
by the name of Rafi Marmore who is the owner
of Delirial Delirial Films, right, and now they collectively go
(25:30):
to look for a director that they feel can tell
this story from that incredible perspective. Right, So they end
up finding Sasha Jenkins. And of course Sasha Jenkins, you know,
he did the Fifty Cents bio, he did the Bes
(25:52):
Boys bio. He did he was a writer on The Boondogs.
He was editor for By magazine. Yeah, yeah, about By Magazine,
and uh, he was just the perfect person. Now what
happens is is I had worked on two projects with
Sasha before this. I worked on the Bizmarque documentary and
(26:16):
I worked on the Rick James documentary. Okay, so naturally
when they got with him, he called me and said, hey,
I would like you to executive produce on this documentary
with us because of your you know, your skill set,
your history, your contact based blah blah blah. Right right,
(26:37):
And so I said, but you know the where they
need to come from. He said, yeah, you don't even
have to talk about I know it. And the thing
about it is is that how he knew it, I
don't quite know because he was a little younger and
he never got to see the actual show. Well, once
(27:01):
he got and he saw the footage that Margot was
able to provide and all of this kind of stuff,
he was all in. So the inspiration from this whole
thing came from Margot Special who is the grand and
(27:23):
daughter of of of Ed Sullivan, and it's been a
passion project for her because she's been she's been involved
in this project maybe maybe ten years. I just got
involved three years ago. Uh to you know, kind of
to to after Sasha, after Sasha got involved.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, Carrie, what what was it? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well, maybe not think, but actually no from Margot or
anybody else behind the scenes. Why was pushing us forward?
Why was that so important to Ed Sullivan?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
The reason it was so important to Ed is because
when Ed came over to the United States. His parents
were immigrants, Irish immigrants, and at that time, the Irish
wore the looked down upon people, and they were looked
(28:15):
at as drunkards, they were looked at as lazy, they
were looked at as stupid, they were you know, they
were looked at negatively. And Aunt Sullivan's father knew that
that was ridiculous and uh, and he passed that down
(28:35):
to his children, but not to mention that they lived
in Harlem. So what happens is is now At Sullivan
grew up having black friends and understanding that black people
were just people, just like all people. And he thought
(28:56):
that it was ridiculous to discriminate someone based on just
the color of their skin. And so his thing was
is that, no, I am not going to discriminate. My
criteria for my show is do they entertain me? And
(29:21):
will they entertain my audience? Right? And it just so
happens that black people, hello, are the best. We create
the culture, We create the coolness. We create all of
the stuff, the music, the whole shot right.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
The dancing, everything right.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
We create that culture. It becomes cool after the black
people embrace it. And he knew that from the beginning,
so he also was fearless in saying, listen, I don't
care what the sponsors tell me I can't do. If
(30:04):
the sponsors don't want to do it, then I don't
need them, right, which is a very dangerous place to be. Absolutely,
if the kukus Klan doesn't want me to do it,
then too bad. I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
If the broadcasters say that I can't touch the hand
of one of my black female guests because that is
too salacious or whatever it is, or too accepting, right,
I'm gonna do it because these are my friends, and
(30:40):
they are the most talented, and they're the ones who
came to my age when I needed them, not the
white people. It was the black people that came and
and and did you know showed up for him to
help him when he was in need, not the white people.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yes, so, Carrie, I mean.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
For Ed Sullivan, he introduced groups like the Temptations and
the Supremes to and James Brown's two very very large audiences.
Out of all of those performances and your experiences watching
this on TV, which one stood out the most to you?
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Well, here's the thing, Because of where I came up.
I have to say I was overjoyed by the Jackson five.
The Jackson five were my idea of there cannot be
a better group. That was my idea at the time.
(31:46):
Now as it went to performers, James Brown was the
first person that made me want to be a performer
because James Brown was literally and there's a lot of
times when you see these documentaries on James Brown and stuff,
(32:09):
they they show him, but they don't show how incredible
he really really was. His dancing, uh, and and people
just and people didn't even realize that James Brown could sing.
They just thought it just yeah, I could sing his
(32:30):
butt off, right. And also people said, he's not taking
He's not he's not saying anything in his songs. He's
not saying his songs aren't that great? Right, But I
say submit to you that you know when he said
stuff like a woman's got to do what you got
to get, just the what you won't you know, that
(32:50):
is a real thing.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
That's poetry.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
That's poetry, yes, you know. Uh. But my my point
is is that it was James Brown, which would probably
be my number one performer all time, Michael Jackson, which
would probably be my number one love of all time,
(33:14):
and I probably the greatest. I mean, these these two
guys are probably the two greatest performers ever in the
history of performances in the music business. And everybody else
is secondary. Now, there were other great musicians, right that
(33:35):
were in incredible, like Prince and Jimmy Hendricks and folks
like that, Right, but yes, I have to tell you
it was James Brown and Michael Jackson and the Jackson
Jackson let me say the Jackson five right, it was.
It was a thing. It was a thing. And plus
(33:56):
their songs were so good and so well written. See,
people thought that those songs that the Jacksons did were
teeny bop. Right, Let's see, Uh what does he say? Uh? Ale,
Let's see uh the one look one those other guys
that put you down, So this is let's see, then
(34:18):
ruin your reputation and may label you a flirt. The
way they talk about you, they'll turn your name to dirt.
You know. Listen, listen to this, Listen to this. Isaac
said he kissed you beneath the apple tree. When Benji
held your hand, he felt electricity. When Alexander called you,
(34:39):
he said he ranged your chimes and Christopher discovered Your
Way Ahead of Your Time. I mean that was a
history lesson inside of the song. People didn't understand that
these songs were great. ABC wasn't a teeny bar song.
(35:00):
What they were saying was ABC is easy as one
two three, simple as do ray me ABC one two three,
Baby You and Me. That's how easy love should be.
If it's not as easy as the ABC's, then it's
really not love. It needs to be that easy. It
(35:22):
needs to be that easy. It needs to be that simple.
And if you're with somebody and it's not that simple,
then it's not you love.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yes, all right, Carrie for you if you Without telling
too much, what's your favorite part in the documentary again,
I hate.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
This well, okay, so I have so many favorite parts
of the documentary. I love the intro when everybody is
everybody is coming in and you can kind of see
what the Ed Sullivan show was about and the type
of talent and in the type of talent that he
had in the In the doc I love the the
(36:04):
Harry Belafonte uh talking about the civil rights and all
that he had to do in order not to be
black listed in black Balled and it was Ed Sullivan
that saved him. I love that. I love the backstory
(36:25):
behind how Ed Sullivan went from a journalist to an
entertainment guy. I love that. And then too, I love
when Stevie Wonder did that harmonica thing. When he did
that harmonica thing and I was shocked at how really
(36:48):
good he was at thirteen years old. And then I
loved the I love that that Jackson five, that Jackson
five thing, that the that they did and can you
can you imagine? Check this out? So they do a year,
they do Sullivan a couple of times in this year.
(37:08):
The first year, first year, right right, their first tour
Listen to this. Their first tour was at Madison Square Garden.
Who in their first tour does Madison Square Garden. That's
because of the popularity. I mean, they got fifty million
(37:28):
people to fallow, fifty million kids to fall in love
with them immediately after that first show. Who are these kids? Right?
And they were great?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
That's amazing, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
What's next on the horizon for well, you know, I
got another question for you, Ed Sullivan. He was very
very responsible for pushing black excellence into the mainstream. Do
you think that me today? Do they still have that responsibility.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
And why well, first of all, I don't think they
have that responsibility. As a matter of fact, I think
it's the opposite. And I think that the way that
the new administration is looking at it, it's it's not
even it's not even a relevant issue right. As a
matter of fact, it's going backwards, you know, taking the
(38:26):
history out of books and all this kind of stuff.
It's going backwards. But I think that what needs to
happen is somebody like me, uh, with passion and purpose
needs to continue doing these kind of things, and people
(38:48):
like you need to continue to support that thing. And
then everybody that hear's you needs to say, you know what,
let me do my part and spread the word so
our people know what Keith is saying about what Carrie
is doing. Right, That is what needs to happen. And
(39:14):
people need to educate their children on our history. They
need to These kids need to know that it just
didn't start here, you know with Kendrick Lamar, right, it didn't.
It didn't start here because Kendrick can basically say anything
he wants to say. It wasn't like that in the beginning.
(39:38):
We we could not even put black faces on our
album covers. Can you imagine my father put white people
playing white people sitting on the beach with a beach
ball on an Isley Brothers cover. Think about that. I
(39:58):
don't know anybody less black than the Isley Brothers, right,
But in order to get racked in the stores, right
and and and in order to sell the product, especially
in the South, you could not sell a product that
had a black face on it, and it certainly wouldn't
(40:20):
be racked in a retail store.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
So that was the uh that was. That was the
way it was then, and we need to we need
to do whatever we can to make sure that everybody knows,
especially that next generation. Because here's the thing. If this
(40:50):
generation that we're in right now loses this and doesn't
put this word out, that next generation is not going
to even know Motown. We're definitely two generations from losing
Michael Jackson, if if if if if we if we
don't talk about it, right, I'm losing Stevie Wonder from
(41:12):
losing Luther Van Draws from losing all of those things.
But you know, ain't nobody gonna lose Elvis And ain't
nobody gonna lose the Beatles.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Right, very interesting point, that's right, right, yes, yes, carry Gordy.
How can everybody check out Sunday Best Sunday Best.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
It's easy, go to Netflix and put in Sunday Best.
Right on some people's it'll be on the crawl because
they you know, they they've liked things that are similar. Right.
But if it's not on your crawl, then go and
(41:55):
you can find it in New you know, under the
New or you can type type it in Sunday Best
Netflix and make sure to give it the two thumbs
up because that way it creates that algorithm that they
can see We're already most liked. I mean they were
already in the most like category, which is great. We've
(42:17):
had over five hundred positive reviews. We came out with
one hundred percent on Rotten Tomatoes. Yes, we got five
stars in the New York Times. Right, I mean, this
thing has taken It's taken its own life. And now
(42:38):
people are calling me. You know, I'm a filmmaker and
I've done three films. Well I'm on my fourth film
right now, but I've done three films, and now, over
the last two weeks, I've been bombarded with people, can
you make my film with me? Can you do this?
Can we can we get together? And blah blah blah. Right,
they have no clue of what it takes to get
a filmmaker, especially as it relates to sound recording and
(43:05):
performance arts rights in publishing.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Right right, right, it's rough. It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Well, you know we Carrie, this has been phenomenal. I'm
going to have to bring you back on this show
so we can just even talk about more about just
the business of the industry. Yeah, this has been fantastic.
Where can everybody find you on social media?
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Okay? At Carrie Gordy Official. I'm on Instagram all right
at carry Gordy Official.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yes, Living Legacy, Carrie Gordy, thank you so much for
joining me on Black in the Great Room on KPLA
Talk fifteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
I appreciate your time so much.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
Man, this was great, And thank you for spreading the
word and and and and helping the kids know and
everybody know that there's things out there that they really
need to know about from a cultural and historical perspective.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Absolutely, I definitely agree.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
It's Sunday Best on Netflix, all right. Storia The Untold
Story of Ed Sullivan from a black perspective.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yes, absolutely absolutely and we love it when it's black.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Carrie Cordy, thank you again for your time. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
Good deal.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
You are black in the green room with me, your
host Keith Underwood, and this is your spot for real
talk about entertainment with the entertainers, creatives and showbiz professionals.
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