June 11, 2025 • 61 mins
In this thrilling episode of Black Man Spy, join Malcolm Nance as he embarks on Mission Greenland, taking you on an adventurous journey through the stunning landscapes of Greenland and Copenhagen. Experience firsthand accounts of the Arctic Circle, icebergs, and the rich culture of Greenland, all while addressing the looming threat posed by the United States. With exclusive interviews and insights, this episode dives deep into the geopolitical dynamics at play and the resilience of the Greenlandic people. Don't miss the captivating conclusion featuring a piece of Greenlandic culture that will leave you inspired!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
This is black Man Spy. Welcome to this week's episode
of black Man's Spy. I have a great interesting episode
for you and which you are taking part in Mission
number one that I have, Mission Greenland. What I have
is a series of recordings and interviews that I did
(00:28):
during my time in Copenhagen and in Greenland. I go
all around the northern part of Greenland. I go up
to the Arctic Circle. I brave the icebergs in the
Arctic Circle, which is very adventuresome, and more importantly, I
get to know the people in the culture of Greenland
that are being threatened by the President of the United States.
(00:51):
With that, you're going to see an interview that I
did that made me famous in Denmark on their version
of sixty minutes known as the Leeper Report. It was
also translated into Greenlandic and shown all over that country,
so I was famous in Greenland as well. So with that,
I hope you enjoyed this episode of black Man Spy
(01:13):
and watch for the end when I have a great
piece of green culture I want to introduce you to.
This is the port of Copenhagen, and it's appropriate that
I start this military assessment about the risk to Greenland
from the threat of invasion of the United States. As
I like to reiterate, the single stupidest story I've ever
(01:37):
had to work on. Across from the Frigate Museum Peter Skram,
which was a Danish frigate in the Cold War that
operated with the United States and operations against the Soviet Union,
patrolling its own waters and working with NATO, the port
of Copenhagen shows that this country is a seafaring country.
(02:00):
This is where Vikings, the Danish Vikings and others came
from this small, tiny land and set out to the
point where they dominated the seas across the North Atlantic
all the way to Greenland. Now, of course they had
competitors Sweden, Finland, Norway, you know, even the English. But
(02:25):
between here, Iceland, Greenland the Faroe Islands they established their
seafiring tradition in small boats going very long distances, and
this is how they actually colonized Greenland by Leif Eriksson
in the medieval period. So with that, I'm going to
(02:48):
be doing a series of interviews and discussions here in
downtown Copenhagen, and we're even going to see the Little Mermaid.
But this is just a prelude to the fact that
right now it is a sunny sixty five degrees or
about you know, eighteen nineteen degrees celsius, And I'm going
to a city where the high will be minus five
(03:09):
celsius or about twenty five degrees, and then we're gonna
go play in the Arctic Circle where it's minus twelve
degrees high. And let me see, that's about seventeen degrees fahrenheit.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So we're gonna enjoy the sun.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I'm gonna give you a bit of tourism, and then
we're gonna get very serious with interviews.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So enjoy the view. Oh, this is not as cold
as I was promised. Welcome to Nuka.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I didn't introduce him yesterday, but this is the famous
Orla Jolson, blogger extraordinaire and keeper of sanity here in Greenland,
and he he knows more about the situation here with
the Trump administration than anyone, and he is driving me
(04:06):
to the airport. I'm gonna go out to the Arctic
Circle now and see about how everyone else thinks.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
But you know, this is not normal. Is this normal
spring conditions? Or it's not normal?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, okay, we should not be having a blizzard right now.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Should be seeing green right, this is like, this is
like upstate New York one month ago.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Or I was in Montchramblin in Montreal a month ago,
and this is what I expect to see, white out
snow conditions. So we'll see if this airplane takes off.
But is there anything crazy in the news today.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't know. I haven't checked not today, not yet.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Oh it's early because it's because the United States hasn't
really opened for business in time to say something stupid.
What I find amazing is even with snow tires, you
guys drive fast up here. That is the problem. Oh,
there's no such thing as used to it. I would
(05:08):
be driving like a little old lady with a very
tight margin of era.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
There's a fishing net fishing. I'm on the fight to
the luta side, and I have to tell it. We
just walked from the terminal.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
To the aircraft and I went through some of the
windiest conditions.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I've ever been on.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
People were literally being blown on the ice and sliding
on their heels ten feet. One of the ground crew
had to catch a woman who was being blown down
the ramp aircraft. I'm sitting all right now is bouncing
left and right, so this is some wind.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Here.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I am.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I've just done maybe three kilometer hike up from the town,
past the ice Ford Museum to the top of this
peak that overlooks the julliat ice Ford.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You can see the Karen here. I'm gonna put my
rock up.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
To show I was here contribute well. Lulissat is finally
getting the weather.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I came here for.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
A snow storm is moving in this afternoon, but it's
still not as bad as it is in Nuk, so
I'm gonna park it. I went up to the lulisat
ice Fjord Center again, another five kilometer trek today, and
(07:01):
now it's a good time to take a nap because,
as you remember, the sun was up all last night
and even with blackout curtains and iyemask, my body was
responding to it. I want to give a shout out
to my brothers and sisters out at Winter Green.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
I love this park that you made for me. I
appreciate it next time in ant Iraq. So up here
in i lumisat Greenland. It's supposed to be the spring,
but it's the tail end of winter and we're gonna
get a blizzard here in about a few minutes, so
(07:43):
thanks again, you guys, love your product. I'm in the
harbor area of Ilumisat and as you can see behind me,
there's nothing but icebergs, just iceberg after iceberg that leads
into the harbor.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
There's a narrow channel.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So occupying a place like this this might look interesting
and fun, but you know, a single lane airstrip, the
helipad has been converted into a bikerowave tower area, so
there's no real place to set down. And if they
don't want you into this harbor, there's ways for them
to make it hard. So the prospect of coming up
(08:22):
here navigating ice fields without pilots is just daunting on
every level.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And every small village on.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
The Green Coast looks like this to a certain extent,
certainly in the west once you're below the Arctic Circle
beyond ice clears, but it is always winter, even in summer.
So here's my ride into Nook that we're going to
(08:53):
do for the next two days on the sad fact
Pictok ferry.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right now, it's.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Doing a very interesting reversing maneuver. Came in those first
and now it's going to turn around on the spot
and bring its bow back out to the sea word
and it's sterned.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Back into the harbor. He must have done this a
thousand times because he's doing it rather quickly.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
This will be interesting, but we'll also more importantly get
an assessment of what the harbor is like going through
these icebergs.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It's gotten very cold right now.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
That's because it's ten.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
O'clock at night, can't you tell me?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And we'll see what it looks like going out through
the ice fjord with these clearly moving ice werks. So
here's my space. This is a premium kushet. This one
only has two racks. I have the lower rack because
I'm lucky. No one has the Alpha rack. I have
(09:57):
the Bravo rack, and I want oh Woobie my late
wife made for me years ago when I went to Iraq,
and she made zippers all the way around it and
turned the poncho liner into a sleeping bag and I
used it on very rare occasions. Has a little tag
(10:17):
on it that says made with love. So it's going
to be a fast departure. We got here very late,
so they're boarded up and relieving in five minutes. Okay,
(10:37):
we're breaking out into an open scene now.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
But we're about two hundred yards in that iceberg. You
can see if you look down below, you can see
it's where it goes green underneath in the water. This
one hasn't been broken. It's just stuffing her.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's good morning, ten am. I keep carrying these bangs
and bumps. I keep picking a mile to see is
rough and we're going through this a nice purf.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Good morning. I'm on the boat deck of the ferry,
and we woke up to a beautiful bright.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Morning sunny, only to find a steaming south to Suscimuate.
And I kept hearing when I woke up, so like
over an hour, all these bumps and bumps and bumps,
and I thought, man, the ocean is choppy.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
It's really choppy. These waves are hitting us.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But when I glanced out the window, I found that
we're sailing on glass.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The problem is we're not sailing on glass.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
We're sailing and had been sailing through most of the
night through an iceberg field.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, like you see off to the left are off
in the distance is the coat.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We're really close on board because we're coming into Sissima
in another thirty minutes or so. But for most of
the night we've been sailing through an iceberg field. And
what I was hearing where the icebergs bounce off the hull,
which is interesting because this ship was made to take it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
This ship was.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Rebuilt nineteen eighty and poll it and has icebreaker capabilities.
So it's a ferry with icebreaker capabilities, but it's.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Not you know, you can just hear that. We just
had that big ass bump from hitting that. It's not
an icebreaker.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It's just meant to go in these waters, and it
was redesigned and rebuilt to go through heavy waters like
this with nodes of surface ice on it. So one
of the funny things was I said that if I
ever get hit by if I ever hit an iceberg,
(13:00):
I'm going to drink champagne. So I actually have champagne.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So I'm in the capital of nuk Greenland.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Little loud because I'm on the road, but I'm in
the capital of nuke Greenland. Where you can see this
is the bay where Hans Asia. That's this statue that
you can see right back there at the top of
the hillside. The Lutheran missionary established his mission in the
early seventeen hundreds here and established missions.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
All up and down the western coast.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
That is a part of the Inuit culture here and
the Danish culture coming together. This is the bay where
it all started. And his house, the oldest house in Nuk,
is right down there.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
This is the billionaire yacht La Datcha, belongs to a
Russian oligark.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And was involved in the shooting incident on the coast
the other day.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
This is a one hundred million dollar ice breaker with
helicopter pad in which the rich and famous can all
proves about.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And drink vodka.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And here it is in the harbor.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
We're generally run.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Hey, what are you going to fist? I'd posted you alone.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
He's got machinery. Watch his life. It's a terrible life.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
M If you see the little mermaid behind me. That's
(15:32):
because right now I'm in Copenhagen and I've finished our
analysis and assessment of northern Central Greenland and Nook the capital.
But I'm back in Copenhagen to talk to Danish officials
because Denmark, and.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
This statue signal wise is that is a seafaring nation.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
They were the ones who after Eric the Red had
gone to Greenland from Iceland in nine two, who resettled
Greenland with Hans Ilie the Missionary in seventeen twenty one.
This country has a very very long tradition of being
(16:13):
across the North Sea, from the Faroe Islands to Iceland
to Greenland. And how we would imagine that they wouldn't
protect that is a good question. In the center of Copenhagen,
in the serene, beautiful environment with its bonds, is this structure,
(16:36):
the Castellette. The Castellet is a military facility that is
still operate, still guarded by the Danish military, in which
tourists walk through and they can see this castle that
was built as a defensive fortification for attack from the sea.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It's not just a symbol.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Of Denmark's past on the sea, but its ability to
defend itself.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The question that we are going to ask, and the
question that needs to be asked, is it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
The United States decides to take action against Greenland, will
Denmark just let it happen.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Or will this building here in the center of the
city get a lot more busy. That has yet to
be answered.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Part of the answer to that question as to whether
Denmark would just let the United States walk all over it.
For Greenland can be found here in Churchill Park. This
nation has a history of both compliance. When the Nazis invaded,
they had an entire branch of the Danish Nazi Party
(18:02):
running this country, and then they had an entire resistance
that coordinated with the United States, Great Britain and created
a Danish underground with Danish.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Soldiers fighting and sacrificing their lives in this country.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I'm standing in Churchill Park, which is right next to
the Castellect, and we are also going to visit the
Museum of the Danish Resistance, which is the underground clandestine
fighters who fought in this country, helped pilots escape and
helped the Special Operations Executive and the American Office of
(18:44):
Strategic Services defeat the Nazis from within. Resistance is also
a part of the Danish experience, and it's not something
that I think we should forget.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
Malcolm Man, thank you so much for taking the time
to be appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's truly my pleasure.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I'm going to jump right into the matter of the issue.
The Wall Street Journal, the newspaper Wall Street Journal, has
two unnamed sources saying that the United States will start
spying in Greenland. Does that story seem trustworthy to you
as a former intelligence officer in the CIA, Well, based on.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
The sources that the Wall Street Journal has, yes, it
seems very reliable. Two sources came to the journal and
said that what happened was the National Security Council and
Director of National Intelligence had placed what we call a
collection emphasis onto Greenland as a target. And that means
(19:44):
the collection of National Intelligence Watch officers principally from Defense
Intelligence Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, Directorate
of National Intelligence, and any other of the seventeen Intelligence
Group would start placing their assets to bring Greenland up
(20:06):
as a much bigger target right now. To be quite
honest with you, I've worked for years in this community.
Greenland was never a target.
Speaker 7 (20:15):
It no, I can I can imagine according to the
territory of Denmark. According to the Wall Street Journal, the
directions that were sent from Toulza Gabbertt, who's the Director
of National Intelligence, and the recipients of the message were
the hits of the CIA and the NSA and so on.
As you just mentioned the various agencies. What does that
(20:38):
tell you, Well, first.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Off, it tells me this is top down tasking. This
means it comes from the President, the National Security Council,
to the Director of National Intelligence, and then out to
the senior heads and commanders of the intelligence agencies themselves.
I want to make note because I worked principally with
the National Security Agency. They just fired the general in
(21:01):
charge of the National Security Agency and the career civilian
deputy director. The civilian deputy director is the most important part,
because the commanders of the NSSA rotate all the time.
The deputy director is a twenty year or more career
intelligence officer who would be very loyal to the laws
of the United States. So by decapitating that agency, they
(21:25):
could put in a new general in charge of NSA
or admiral in charge of NSA and choose a deputy
director who would be more than willing to carry out
these orders. I'm going to be frank with you. I've
spent decades, almost three decades or more in the intelligence community.
This is, without a doubt, the single stupidest collection emphasis
(21:47):
I have ever seen.
Speaker 7 (21:48):
I want to get into that howid's stupid, but I
also just want to touch upon what you just said.
There Malcolm Nancy.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Is that.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
First of all the seven what resources do you mobilize
when you bring out this message? When the Direction of
National Inteligy puts out this message, you know, is it
just moving Greenland from somewhere you've never seen Greenland on
the list somewhat up the ladder, or is it suddenly
seventeen agencies deploying agencies of Greenland.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
What are we talking about here, Well, let's step away
from traditional intelligence methods human intelligence methods like deploying agents
to Greenland. This would be more along the lines of
the Director of the National Intelligence passing it down to
these agencies. These agencies will come up with an emphasize
collection plan. That collection plan will be based on whatever
(22:46):
tasking targets she wants. So, if the tasking target from
the United States government, right, the commander's intent from the
National Command Authority is they want to know everything that's
going on in Greenland. Right, Well, it's pretty simple. You
go to the consular officer and you ask them what's
going on in Greenland. It's a very small country. I've
been here over a week. I've gone through the from
(23:08):
the Arctic Circle all the way back down to the
capital area and the central part of the country. It
is a very small country to collect. The question is
is Denmark actually the target or is it the Prime
Minister of Greenland or the local you know, committees who
are in this area, or the Danish warships that are
(23:29):
patrolling in the area, or Arctic Command. That means it's
going to happen in one of two ways. It will
happen with either collecting general generic information that we know
having doing you know, having done cooperative operations with the Danes,
or it could mean a super top secret collection emphasis
(23:50):
where they now go after the phone structure, they go
after your emails and everything from the leadership of Denmark
to gain intelligence about them, mindset of the population, what
resistance the population could put up, What would the United
States have to do? It really depends on what Donald
Trump has directed from the top down.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
Given what the Walls journalist is reporting. It's about engaging
What kind of support is there for the United States
in Greenland? What kind of support would that be for
extracting raw material, different kinds of resources from the underground.
Are you saying that what you're looking at is much
(24:35):
more than that or is that just a qualified guess
what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I wouldn't call it a qualified guess. I call it
a professional assessment. To get that information, that's easy. You
can just go on Twitter, x TikTok, you can watch emails.
That's open source intelligence. You know, people here in Greenland
have been saying openly and publicly what their opinion is
about this. Now you need to go an step or
(25:00):
two down. What does the Danish government itself feel about this?
What would they do if in the next step of
a crisis, How would the United States deal with Greenlanders
or give information or give money or give resources websites
to Greenlanders? The one or two to make it appear
(25:23):
like there is a false groundswell of support for the
United States that would facilitate their moving to the next
step of annexation. And let's be clear about a few things.
I've only spent almost forty years doing this. Annexation in
this particular circumstance is not buying Greenland. It would be
taken Greenland by force in opposition to the Danish government
(25:47):
and a fad A company and letting you just decide
what you're going to do after US forces show up here.
Speaker 7 (25:53):
And I want to get into that particular part what's
going to happen next. I just want to drill just
a bit about because I had a question here saying
should the Danish government be worried? Now it seems to
me that what you're saying is, yeah, the Danish government
should be worried about this, because this is as I
hear you, this is not just about reading what's in
(26:14):
the greenlanding newspapers. This is about, in your assessment, trying
to get intelligence about what's going on in the Danish government.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Well, you know, the United States is an ally, it's
a partner with Denmarket is a NATO ally and has
been since the end of World War two. Before the
end of World War two, right we were helping the
Danish resistance. Times have changed. The emphasis that Donald Trump
is placing on is his personal interest His personal interests
(26:44):
is the interests of the financial backers, the world's richest
man other technology billionaires, who have been pushing this greenland
plan for some time now for exploiting natural resources. It's
a very nineteenth century mindset the way that they're looking
at green It's just some territory to be seized, and
you know, to increase the size of the physical United States,
(27:06):
which is, you know, absolutely mind boggling that they're even
considering that. The problem is to do it, you are
going to have to have a physical presence in Greenland.
Greenland is not you know, the people here who I've
been meeting over the last week, speaking to people throughout
the country, they're not going to roll over except an
American flag and then shift and say we're now a
(27:28):
territory of the United States or an annex of the
state of Alaska.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
That's not going to happen, Which means that what's the
intelligent about what role does that lay in that in
that process?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, the key question that any senior commander is going
to want to know is what are you going to
do about it?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Why?
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, the Danish government, from the prime minister on down,
it's one thing to deal with this diplomatically. It's a
completely different thing to know what you really feel about it,
because diplomacy is the craft of the negotiation, in the
dance of discussion. That is not what they want. They
want to know that if for example, a special force
(28:09):
were to seize NUK Airport, raise the flag, detain your policeman,
tell your corvettes to stay off shore, and that this
is now the United States. They want to know what
you're going to do about it.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
But allow me to tending how what what kind of
I'm asking from I'm asking you, as an expert in
this particular feel of intelligence, what would you what kind
of help? What kind of assistance does h and as
a CIA operatives working on Greenland give to that mission
(28:40):
of an ex in Greenland? What can they do? What
would contribution be?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
You know, when intelligence officers in the United States and
in the military swear their oath, they swear their oath
to the Constitution of the United States. But one of
the unspoken rules in the intelligence community is we have
an unwritten law don't do anything stupid. You can be
ordered to carry out collection, You can be ordered to
carry out operations, to send in people to gouge that information.
(29:10):
You could be directed to give passive or even active
or financial support to people who want to subvert Greenland,
who are greenlandings ordains, and you can carry that out
without disobeying orders. But when you're talking about something like
forced entry or a special operation seizure, a fad of
complete operation which would bring Greenland into the United States
(29:33):
in one day. Then you're talking about people who will
have to make a moral choice about what they're doing.
If that's the case, then you're going to have a
lot of warning if that decision has been made, because
we have far too many professionals who would not betray
the alliance between NATO, everything that has been done since
World War Two, just because Donald Trump asked for it.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I understand that. I'm also curious as to what, let's
say that this is carried out, that the NSA, the
CIA will comply to the message giving from the direct
to National Intelligence. And what I'm curious about is basically
what will they bring back to the administration in order
to help them do whatever they want to do. I mean,
(30:16):
you know, deploying soldiers, that's one way to do it,
that's pretty simple. What will they be doing prior to that,
because they're intelligence officers, well, I.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Mean there's many different methodologies of collection that they can
do that will comply completely with the request that comes
from Tulsa. Gabbert's office and could satisfy them that they're
getting the information. But that would really be bringing in
wheelbarrows and wheel barrows of information that they know they
won't read information that they won't analyze, assessments that they
(30:50):
won't take seriously. This White House is not serious in
terms of with the intelligence. It's not serious as an
organization that deals in state craft. They are dealing in
inly like behavior where they think they can just imagine
it and it will happen. So fortunately this order can
(31:11):
be carried out. But I really believe that you will
have more than enough warning should it go from a
simple study to something more serious, like supporting a special
operation or supporting an amphibious operation that would take greenland
in many different places.
Speaker 7 (31:30):
I'm curious as to no, because, as you said, you
have decades of experience with the things we're talking about.
Here comes to mind a parallel situation, a country or
a territory where you can remember or and say, this
is sort of the dynamics that we've seen play out
(31:50):
here or there.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Now.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
This has never existed since the founding of NATA. There
is no parallel to this. This is the United States
behaving as if they are Russia invading Ukraine. That's what
the peril. The only parallel that it would come out
to the either this disruption of the political environment here
(32:14):
in Greenland, creating a counter force accounter culture that would
be illegitimate, maybe two or three people, and declaring them
as the legitimate people who speak for Greenland, and then
coming to their aid or rescue with a military force.
That's the only way that this can be carried out.
(32:35):
This is not the kind of operation that the United
States does well. And when we do it, like a
you know, example, Iran in nineteen fifties, it always ends
up in disaster. And in this circumstance, you're talking about
a NATO Article for situation where the territorial integrity of
Denmark would be encroached upon by the United States, you
(32:57):
would have enough warning that you could call ANNATO Council
meeting and see if you could hold it off, or worse,
a NATO Article five where Greenland is invaded, citizens are
injured or killed, and you were calling for the NATO
Alliance of the other thirty nations to come to your aid.
It's a situation we shouldn't even be talking about it,
(33:18):
so but were, But we.
Speaker 7 (33:19):
Are talking about and then I'm just I just got
a pause it there for a second because I do actually,
and this might sound naive to you, I can tell
you the viewers know this. I'm not an intelligence officer.
I have not been in any agency that has to
do with any of these things. So to me, it
just sounds like this can't be real. We cannot be
(33:42):
talking about American courses invading Greenland, but that is some
scenario that you do not rule out.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
This is without a doubt. I mean, I've been working
operations around the world for nearly forty years. I'm an
analyst on major television in the United States, a New
York Times bestselling author. I deal strictly in reality. I
do not play games. I don't delve in conspiracy theory.
This is, without a doubt, the single stupidest thing that
(34:13):
I have ever heard, and it is becoming a stupid reality.
And the only thing you can do is prepare for
the dramatic effect. That's that a decision that is clearly
in Donald Trump's mind. He has made a decision. The
only question he is very seriously concerned about is how
will Denmark and the other NATO alliance handle this. Will
(34:37):
it become a situation where the United States becomes a
pariah and can he deal with that? Can he manage that?
And is the financial gain of the territorial gain worth
the as we say, is the juice worth the squeeze. Well,
he'll have to make that decision and the consequences after it.
Speaker 7 (34:54):
So what you're also saying is that as the Wall
Street journald talks about writes about Greenland being the target
of intelligence agencies in the United it who should really
be worried about who's tapping the phones and their emails?
I suppose is the Danish Prime minister. Is the Danish
(35:14):
government is already of a covert intelligence.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Situation here. Well, if there's anything I can say about
Denmark and our allies is there's no need to do that.
The Danes will tell you everything you want to know.
They will make their positions clear. I don't think you
hold any cards close to your chest. I think that
the only ones that you would would be a defensive
action or an exercise deployment that you wouldn't want the
(35:43):
Americans to know about that they're going to gain. Within
the alliance, they're going to gain some information. We're very
good at seeing what our allies are doing as well
as what we're doing. But I don't think that you
have to worry about that. No, one's going to be
sorting through all of your emails. There's one thing I
want to people. When the United States does intelligence collection,
everything comes down to a human being. There is a
(36:06):
human being that must see the information it's collected, even
if it's done by computer. And the question is will
that person, as we say, throw it in the burn bag,
which means dispose of it to be destroyed and not
let it go up to do the National Security Council
or the Tulsi Gabbert because it's so ridiculous. I mean,
who wants to monitor fishing boat activities? You know in Luisa.
(36:33):
This is a waste of resources and a waste of time.
But again, the political side of this has decided that
there is some interest here and the only thing that
they really need to know is we know when they're
going to do it, how they're going to do it.
But I'm pretty sure at this point they've got it
in their head they're going to do it.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
Could be Could there be legitimate reasons for the United
States to be gathering information in Greenland?
Speaker 1 (37:01):
No? None, And the one person who would have been
the legitimate source would have been the US Agency for
International Development officer, who is one of three officers at
the US consulate who could get you anything you want
to know, right runway lens, you know, the fishing habits,
you know down in Katotok when cruise liners come in.
(37:23):
This is the kind of information that's operational. You know
how many what's the flow of icebergs coming out of
the you know the Alulasa ice feard. This is important.
That information, if it's done in Washington and if it's
done in some other remote site, is almost ludicrous. You
could really just read Orla Jolison's Twitter feed and get
(37:44):
just as much information as you want to know about
the mindset of locals than deploying intelligence resources.
Speaker 7 (37:51):
Because there seems to be at least an agreement about
that the Greenland has somehow been underprioritized, that we have
not paid enough attention, whether it's then mark in the
United States, we have not paid enough attention to the
fact of the geographic position right there that somehow this
will be or is already a sort of a key
(38:12):
to international security in the years ahead.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Let me give you a little farmer on how intelligence
analysis is done. The most important things are not who, what, when,
where or how. The key thing that we always want
to know. The most valuable intelligence is why why is
our opponent or why is our opposition doing what they're doing.
(38:39):
If you look at Greenland from the top down from
an Arctic polar map view, you would have to have
an enormous amount of climate change to make the Northwest
passage navigable enough to be valuable to go where the
flat of Astok to Shanghai. There are faster, better routes.
(39:00):
This talk about national security imperatives of the United States
with regards to Russia. Donald Trump and Russia are like this.
They speak the same language. They are not a strategic adversary.
There is virtually no Russian navy to speak of the
way there was in the nineteenies, seventies and nineteen eighties,
So I really would have to question what is your
(39:22):
national security intent for Greenland. You have one radar at Patufic.
That radar system is superfluous. It really went out of
style as a primary warning system in the nineteen seventies.
We have space based sensors which are far more accurate,
and that system in the Canadian alert chain radars is
really just a tertiary backup to determining if a worldwide
(39:47):
strategic nuclear strike is coming. And if that's the case,
you have twenty three minutes to the end of the world.
Why does it matter? So this brings to question why
does Donald Trump want this land?
Speaker 7 (40:00):
And we can guess on that, but let me just
I just the Danish government has stated that in reaction
to to the Wall Street Journal story about what we're
talking about here, Malcolm Nance that and I quote, friends
don't spy on each other. That's been the Danish government
response to the fact that it seems like the American
(40:22):
government will actually be spying on Dame Greenland. Is it
let's brought it out bit here? Is it uncommon for
the United States to secretly be investigating friendly countries?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, you know, everyone is an opposition right on the marketplace,
depending on where you're at. So I won't say whether
the United States have used that as a priority. I mean,
you know since World War Two when we had when
you know, when the government displaced the Canada. You know,
you always want to know one hour ahead of what
(40:59):
you're dinner, guest is going to want to order r
So in this particular circumstance, Denmark is saying, what is
very clear, you want to know something, come and ask us.
We'll tell you. The question is, what is the reason
why you want to know about the resources of Greenland?
What is your intent with saying that Greenland is an
(41:20):
American national security priority since you've had basis there since
nineteen forty one, and then in nineteen seventy two you
gave us beatific for one dollar, it is more of
a Danish national security priority and a Greenlandic national security
priority to ensure that their sovereignty is not exposed or
exploited by a country that thinks they're bigger than that.
Speaker 7 (41:43):
You've touched upon this from the beginning of this conversation,
and it rings in my head the question of what's next.
So from a dance protective we're looking at this. We're
reading stories that somehow American intelligence agents is going to
work on Greenland or whatever.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
What is next?
Speaker 7 (42:01):
You've touched upon that saying that, well, the United States
could have a plan of somehow taking over Greenan What
would that look like? What will we talking about I
know we have talked about it already, but a bit
more concrete, what would that look like?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, it's horrible that we even have to think about this.
This is again I'm going to couch this in what
I call professional intelligence terms. This is stupid that we
have to actually have a conversation about it. And that
is what is being said by intelligence aulicers all over
the United States right now. This tasking is stupid, But
the White House has got something in their head. They
(42:38):
are bringing that down to the community, and so the
community is going to come up with clever answers. The
single easiest way is for the United States to carry
out a special operation using an unmarked civil airliner carrying
two or three hundred Special Forces rangers, air Force combat
controllers who would take over your control tower O Bland
(42:58):
security squat officers who would take over your police and
secure your policemen, and they would land at this airport
at two in the morning without permission. They would seize
the airport, they would seize your parliament building, they would
seize your Prime minister, they would seize your police in Greenland,
and then they would race in Greenland and they would
raise the flag and say this is now the United
States territory. Now you have the rest of the country
(43:19):
to deal with. You have to land at Kanjalusha Eluciate
Asia Sisimiut these are places I've been to now, and
that will require follow on forces. Those follow on forces
are going to be conventional, and there will be more
than enough warning of guys calling their mothers telling them
they're taking cold weather arctic gear to go seize Greenland,
(43:41):
and you'll have plenty of warning to try to intervene.
But the easiest thing to do is, you know the
United States thinks this is unguarded, unprotected. Will prove to
them that Greenland is in Denmark's national security priority. Deploy
your marine regiment here and do you give the security
(44:01):
that they believe the American state doesn't exist here? Or
work with the French and deploy their alpine troops here
and carry out exercises. But so long as Donald Trump
believes that Greenland is not being well served by Denmark
with regards to security, you could resolve that issue by
carrying out better exercises, larger exercises, and stationing troops in Greenland,
(44:22):
and then they would have to justify what their mindset is.
Speaker 7 (44:26):
So what you're saying is that Denmark and perhaps even
NATO as such NATO without the United States, should somehow
prepare for some the terrens around Greenland deploying troops for
exercises or being prepared for just to show that if
the United States the two hundred ranges you talk about
(44:47):
were to land and nuke something would happen.
Speaker 8 (44:52):
Is that what you're saying, No, I'm just giving you
an option, okay, so that the United States understands that
you're taking the national security of Greenland and Dane Denmark's
interest very seriously.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I mean the Vice President himself said he was underserved
it wasn't being carried out by Denmark. I mean Patufix
Space base would collapse if Lars, the maintenance facility manager,
were to leave that base. It's serviced by the government
of Canada and Denmark locals work up there. But that's
(45:27):
two thousand kilometers over a two kilometer deep ice cap
from the capital of NUK. So if they believe that
you aren't supporting your country and are not supporting the
national security interests of NATO, well perhaps a greater demonstration
in the immediate future would help them understand that perhaps
(45:49):
the United States isn't needed to supply another reason.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
Before we move just to that point, which is obviously
very dramatic. I always know there's been this conversation about
trying to and this is something that the United States
has engaged in for decades, trying to change the you know,
the public opinion.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
We going to see that you think is.
Speaker 7 (46:11):
That part of the intelligence community effort trying to or
support the groups in Greenland that would like the United
States to take over. Are we going to see that
kind of a public diplomacy in sort of a malign
way to put it that way?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
I wrote an assessment about this back on March second
on my Special Intelligence substack called the coming invasion of
Canada and Greenland. One thing you absolutely will see, and
we are just starting to see the front.
Speaker 7 (46:41):
End of it.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
There will be a political and social destabilization campaign by
false groups that are claiming that they are from Greenland.
That is Elon Musk's wheelhouse. This is what he does.
He did it during the campaign. He paid you know,
millions upon millions upon millions of dollars. They will find
one or two individuals who will act as if they
(47:05):
are the anchor to an opposition group in Greenland, and
like the Russians did in Donatsky and Luhansk, right, you
can have a false referendum. These people with false entities
and operating in the United States or in other parts
of the world, will start flooding the information sphere with
false information about how the United States is needed here,
(47:25):
how Greenland is not being served by Denmark, how you
know leif Erickson was a genocide air. Whatever you want
to say, they're going to say it. And we just
saw the first touch of that. A false Facebook group
has just popped up with no followers out of nowhere
talking about Greenland for Greenlanders. This is a very very
(47:46):
big part of the MAGA playbook, but it will also
be part of the supporters of Donald Trump. It's the
techno billionaires that are really after Greenland, and you need
to be very very careful about the information warfare operation
they could carry out completely without any assistance of the
United States government. That will meet all of those goals
(48:08):
to allow them to carry out quite possibly a forceful
seizure of the island.
Speaker 7 (48:13):
Malcolm Nantz, I want to thank you for taking the
time to be here on the program and give us
your perspective on the rather dramatic events that are taking
place in Greenland at the moment. I appreciate it. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
I'm sorry we have to be here. As any good
intelligence professional knows, the key to operating or working within
certain environments that are alien to you is by understanding language, culture, history,
and geography. And in the case of where I went Greenland, weather,
(48:50):
it's very important you must understand the weather. The entire
concept of the klalis Suit people is the people live
there in their day to day existence depended on them
going out to the ocean and gaining what they needed
(49:11):
either through seal, walrus, polar bear, fish of shrimp, all
of these things that they collected from the sea, and
the entire basis of their belief system is based around
the tail. Their tail of survival is really based around
a story called the Mother of the Sea.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
The Mother of the Sea.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
If you go to Nook, Greenland, it's a statue that's
in the water and it's a woman, a bare breasted,
voluptuous woman who has long, long hair, and in her
hair are fish, the walarus, the polar bear. All life
springs from the Mother of the sea and the Mother
(49:56):
of the Sea's hair. So if you really want to
understand some of the ground dynamics of a culture that
you're going to, I recommend doing two things one watch
children's cartoons. Okay, sounds funny, right now. Every person in
these countries and cultures start by watching kids cartoons and
(50:18):
they often make reference to them. Another is reading history
books or books of culture like this one, which is
the story of the Mother of the Journey of the
Mother of the Sea, which will tell you what the
culture is like that the average person knows. This story
(50:39):
is emblematic of everything that is the culture of Greenland.
So of course I bought this book and I bought
topographic maps. Right, it's very interesting. I can't read the
entire story of the Mother of the Sea, but the
story is fundamentally like this. Long time ago, the people
(51:02):
of Greenland believed in the Mother of the Sea. She
lived at the bottom of the ocean, where she ruled
over all creatures of the sea. She was all knowing
and very powerful. From her dwelling on the ocean floor,
she would send seals, whales, fish and seabirds up to
the surface for hunters to catch. That's why the people
called her Mother of the Sea. However, if people began
(51:26):
behaving badly, she would become angry and with all the animals.
Then a shaman would have to be sent down to
clean and comb her hair, which would become tangled and
dirty as the result of people's misdeeds. She was so
powerful that only the mightiest of the shamans could visit
her at the bottom of the ocean. A shaman was
a wise person who had supernatural powers and was both
(51:49):
feared and revered. Shamans could cure the sick, predict the future,
and only a few women became shamans, but those who
did were more powerful than their male counterparts. This story
is really about a woman shaman who was at the
time a feeble old lady, and due to the misdeeds
(52:09):
of people, the fishing, the animals, the seals, the whales
became scarce, and her village was starving. The story is
essentially that she goes down to the bottom of the
ocean and goes through all these trials and tribulations to
meet the mother of the sea. When she gets to
(52:30):
the bottom of the ocean, and mainly because by the way,
her husband who was fishing, was not catching anything and
everyone was starving, and she wanted to break the spell
over nobody eating, nobody surviving, which is the key you'll
understand about greenland and culture. It's all about community and
(52:52):
personal survival. No time for animosity when you have to
satisfy yourself, fee yourself, store food away for a long time,
and respect the mother of the sea. This story starts
with the story of the old woman who goes to
the bottom of the ocean, goes through trials and tribulations
(53:13):
to meet the Mother of the sea and to see
if she would entertain her wish to allow bountiful food
whales seals to come back. So I'm going to start
you here, and we're going to skip a little bit,
but this is the fundamental part of the book. The
old woman crept through the entrance and entered the house
(53:34):
of the Mother of the Sea. What a sight. On
a bench sat an enormous woman with a thick mass
of long, tangled hair draped over her body. This had
to be the Mother of the sea. She glared angrily
at her uninvited guest, and the old woman became a
little anxious. Then she remembered that her helping spirit would
(53:55):
come to her aid, and she would wait to see
what would happen next. And this is the picture of
the Mother of the Sea with her tangled hair, looking
angrily at the old woman who has come to ask
for help. The old woman, who is a shamed come here,
ordered the Mother of the sea, you shall clean my hair.
(54:17):
Just as the old woman reached her, the great woman
grabbed her with one hand and lifted her as easily
as if she was a baby. The Mother of the
Sea tried to toss the old woman into the stream,
but the old woman, helping spirit whispered, wrap your fingers
around her hair, and this will save your life. The
old woman did as she was told and clung to
(54:37):
the hair. Twice, the Mother of Sea tried to throw
the old woman into the stream like the Gulf stream,
and both times she clung to the great massive hair,
her fingers wrapped around it, like her helping spirit had
told her. Realizing she couldn't shake off the old woman,
the mother of a sea relented very well, Then clean
my hair. The old woman began to clean the Mother
(55:02):
of the Sea the hair of the Mother of the
Sea very thoroughly, untangling it with a large comb made
of bone. Bone instruments are critical to the Kalalasut culture.
They have bone instruments in the museum that are thousands
of years old. She carefully wiped the huge woman's face
(55:23):
with a soft skin cloth dipped in the finest boils.
When she was done, the Mother of the Sea said,
thank you, I have not been cleaned for a long time.
Upon your return to the land, you must tell your
fellow settlers to take care of the ocean. Underline that
(55:43):
when people do not care about the ocean and it
becomes polluted, I get covered in filth and become unsightly
and unkempt. And then I must keep the sea animals
from the surface in order to make people change their ways.
I must do this until someone comes down to clean me.
Ask everyone to remember this. People must not think only
(56:06):
of hunting and food. Even though the old woman hadn't
spoken of her mission, the mother of the Sea knew
of it and said to her, let me see what
I can do for you. Help me move my oil lamp.
The lamp was very large and bray heavy. They both
grabbed it and shifted it a little to one side,
(56:26):
and from beneath the lamp great flocks of sea birds
flew out of the house and up towards the ocean surface.
That's enough, said the Mother of the sea, and they
moved the lamp back the place. There's one more thing
we must do, said the Mother of the Sea, as
she moved to the opposite wall. Do you see that
large door? Help me open it. The old woman helped
(56:49):
the Mother of the Sea open the large door, only
to behold a strange creature, part animal, part human. You
must market, the Mother of the sea. How am I
to do that, the old woman asked, scratch a patch
between its eyes with your fingernail. The old woman obeyed,
and a bare patch appeared between the creature's eyes.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
That is good.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
This will be your husband's last catch, and for cleaning me,
I thank you. The old woman then departed, leaving the
dwelling of the Mother of the Sea. This is the
Mother of the sea. But the old woman meeting the
half human, half animal, which now allows them to catch food. Pappa,
(57:36):
I'm going to go to the end. One day, the
old man said to his wife, I'm going out to hunt.
She went back to her village and things became bountiful.
I'm going out to hunt seal in my kayak. The
old woman smiled and thought to herself, what is he thinking?
He hasn't been hunting for a very long time, and
(57:57):
his old kayak has been on its wreck behind our
house for so long it's probably useless, But she said nothing.
Before long, the old man returned from his front with
a seal in tow. The old woman went down to
the beach and was amazed to see he had caught
the finest seal in the entire ocean, with a pelt
as beautiful and smooth as silk. When the old woman
(58:20):
saw the beautiful seal had a bare patch between its eyes,
she thought of the strange creature she had marked with
her fingernail during her visit to the Mother of the sea.
The Mother of the Sea had told her that it
would be her husband's last catch, and she now knew
this to be true. Everything has happened as foretold, and
(58:43):
all of this came to be because the old woman,
to save her settlement from starvation, had the courage to
undertake the dangerous journey down to the Mother of the Sea.
The end. Now, I recommend you go to Greenland to
the National Greenlandic Museum, get this book yourself, and then
(59:04):
you can read about all the harrowing adventures of the
old woman as she went down to see the Mother
of the Sea. But this is their culture, and this
story is critical to every aspect of how they live.
They respect the ocean, they respect their kayaks, they respect
(59:24):
the food and bounty that they get from the ocean,
and they don't abuse it. Everyone there. I went out
with a lawyer. You'll see that when I went fishing
with a lawyer, and he had a sixty day license
to collect row caviar, red caviar from a very small
(59:46):
area where he was allowed to put a fishing net.
Everyone does this. The ocean provides and it wasn't just
to provide him food that he could sell to the
market that would go to Denmark.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
He ate that row.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
I had that row the next morning for breakfast. It
was brilliant. But the culture there is about respect of
the ocean and the people. And the problem that we
have is especially in this time of threatening these poor
innocent people who have done nothing, but each of whom
has a high caliber sniper grade caribou and wild muskox
(01:00:22):
hunting rifle, is that we are not respecting their even existence.
By having this conversation, and I hope that by giving
you a little bit of the taste of the story
of the Mother of the Sea, you understand where their
origins come from.
Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
With that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Thank you for being on this special edition of black
Man Spy. Every time you hear Donald Trump or someone
in his administration threatened Greenland, come back to this podcast.
Watch it, listen to it, over see the sights and
the sounds of Greenland. If you want to get there.
United Airlines is going to start flying NonStop from JFK
(01:01:01):
here in about a week in mid June, and you
can fly in Greenland. It's going to be in the
seventies during the summer. It's beautiful.
Speaker 9 (01:01:08):
You can hike there. Yes, it's oney seven hundred and
fifty miles of solid ice one mile deep. But the
south western side of the country, which is enormous. By
the way, it takes two hours to fly in any direction.
That art is hikeable, treckable.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
You can go there.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
You can go on a cruise ship. It's going to
be brilliant. So thank you for listening and watching this
episode of Black Man Spy. And I just want to
say to all of my followers in Denmark and Greenland,
it has been a pleasure to popularize your nation and
your territory.
This is black Man Spy. Welcome to this week's episode
of black Man's Spy. I have a great interesting episode
for you and which you are taking part in Mission
number one that I have, Mission Greenland. What I have
is a series of recordings and interviews that I did
(00:28):
during my time in Copenhagen and in Greenland. I go
all around the northern part of Greenland. I go up
to the Arctic Circle. I brave the icebergs in the
Arctic Circle, which is very adventuresome, and more importantly, I
get to know the people in the culture of Greenland
that are being threatened by the President of the United States.
(00:51):
With that, you're going to see an interview that I
did that made me famous in Denmark on their version
of sixty minutes known as the Leeper Report. It was
also translated into Greenlandic and shown all over that country,
so I was famous in Greenland as well. So with that,
I hope you enjoyed this episode of black Man Spy
(01:13):
and watch for the end when I have a great
piece of green culture I want to introduce you to.
This is the port of Copenhagen, and it's appropriate that
I start this military assessment about the risk to Greenland
from the threat of invasion of the United States. As
I like to reiterate, the single stupidest story I've ever
(01:37):
had to work on. Across from the Frigate Museum Peter Skram,
which was a Danish frigate in the Cold War that
operated with the United States and operations against the Soviet Union,
patrolling its own waters and working with NATO, the port
of Copenhagen shows that this country is a seafaring country.
(02:00):
This is where Vikings, the Danish Vikings and others came
from this small, tiny land and set out to the
point where they dominated the seas across the North Atlantic
all the way to Greenland. Now, of course they had
competitors Sweden, Finland, Norway, you know, even the English. But
(02:25):
between here, Iceland, Greenland the Faroe Islands they established their
seafiring tradition in small boats going very long distances, and
this is how they actually colonized Greenland by Leif Eriksson
in the medieval period. So with that, I'm going to
(02:48):
be doing a series of interviews and discussions here in
downtown Copenhagen, and we're even going to see the Little Mermaid.
But this is just a prelude to the fact that
right now it is a sunny sixty five degrees or
about you know, eighteen nineteen degrees celsius, And I'm going
to a city where the high will be minus five
(03:09):
celsius or about twenty five degrees, and then we're gonna
go play in the Arctic Circle where it's minus twelve
degrees high. And let me see, that's about seventeen degrees fahrenheit.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So we're gonna enjoy the sun.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I'm gonna give you a bit of tourism, and then
we're gonna get very serious with interviews.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So enjoy the view. Oh, this is not as cold
as I was promised. Welcome to Nuka.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I didn't introduce him yesterday, but this is the famous
Orla Jolson, blogger extraordinaire and keeper of sanity here in Greenland,
and he he knows more about the situation here with
the Trump administration than anyone, and he is driving me
(04:06):
to the airport. I'm gonna go out to the Arctic
Circle now and see about how everyone else thinks.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
But you know, this is not normal. Is this normal
spring conditions? Or it's not normal?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, okay, we should not be having a blizzard right now.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Should be seeing green right, this is like, this is
like upstate New York one month ago.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Or I was in Montchramblin in Montreal a month ago,
and this is what I expect to see, white out
snow conditions. So we'll see if this airplane takes off.
But is there anything crazy in the news today.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't know. I haven't checked not today, not yet.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Oh it's early because it's because the United States hasn't
really opened for business in time to say something stupid.
What I find amazing is even with snow tires, you
guys drive fast up here. That is the problem. Oh,
there's no such thing as used to it. I would
(05:08):
be driving like a little old lady with a very
tight margin of era.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
There's a fishing net fishing. I'm on the fight to
the luta side, and I have to tell it. We
just walked from the terminal.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
To the aircraft and I went through some of the
windiest conditions.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I've ever been on.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
People were literally being blown on the ice and sliding
on their heels ten feet. One of the ground crew
had to catch a woman who was being blown down
the ramp aircraft. I'm sitting all right now is bouncing
left and right, so this is some wind.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Here.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I am.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I've just done maybe three kilometer hike up from the town,
past the ice Ford Museum to the top of this
peak that overlooks the julliat ice Ford.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You can see the Karen here. I'm gonna put my
rock up.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
To show I was here contribute well. Lulissat is finally
getting the weather.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I came here for.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
A snow storm is moving in this afternoon, but it's
still not as bad as it is in Nuk, so
I'm gonna park it. I went up to the lulisat
ice Fjord Center again, another five kilometer trek today, and
(07:01):
now it's a good time to take a nap because,
as you remember, the sun was up all last night
and even with blackout curtains and iyemask, my body was
responding to it. I want to give a shout out
to my brothers and sisters out at Winter Green.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
I love this park that you made for me. I
appreciate it next time in ant Iraq. So up here
in i lumisat Greenland. It's supposed to be the spring,
but it's the tail end of winter and we're gonna
get a blizzard here in about a few minutes, so
(07:43):
thanks again, you guys, love your product. I'm in the
harbor area of Ilumisat and as you can see behind me,
there's nothing but icebergs, just iceberg after iceberg that leads
into the harbor.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
There's a narrow channel.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So occupying a place like this this might look interesting
and fun, but you know, a single lane airstrip, the
helipad has been converted into a bikerowave tower area, so
there's no real place to set down. And if they
don't want you into this harbor, there's ways for them
to make it hard. So the prospect of coming up
(08:22):
here navigating ice fields without pilots is just daunting on
every level.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And every small village on.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
The Green Coast looks like this to a certain extent,
certainly in the west once you're below the Arctic Circle
beyond ice clears, but it is always winter, even in summer.
So here's my ride into Nook that we're going to
(08:53):
do for the next two days on the sad fact
Pictok ferry.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right now, it's.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Doing a very interesting reversing maneuver. Came in those first
and now it's going to turn around on the spot
and bring its bow back out to the sea word
and it's sterned.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Back into the harbor. He must have done this a
thousand times because he's doing it rather quickly.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
This will be interesting, but we'll also more importantly get
an assessment of what the harbor is like going through
these icebergs.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It's gotten very cold right now.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
That's because it's ten.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
O'clock at night, can't you tell me?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And we'll see what it looks like going out through
the ice fjord with these clearly moving ice werks. So
here's my space. This is a premium kushet. This one
only has two racks. I have the lower rack because
I'm lucky. No one has the Alpha rack. I have
(09:57):
the Bravo rack, and I want oh Woobie my late
wife made for me years ago when I went to Iraq,
and she made zippers all the way around it and
turned the poncho liner into a sleeping bag and I
used it on very rare occasions. Has a little tag
(10:17):
on it that says made with love. So it's going
to be a fast departure. We got here very late,
so they're boarded up and relieving in five minutes. Okay,
(10:37):
we're breaking out into an open scene now.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
But we're about two hundred yards in that iceberg. You
can see if you look down below, you can see
it's where it goes green underneath in the water. This
one hasn't been broken. It's just stuffing her.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's good morning, ten am. I keep carrying these bangs
and bumps. I keep picking a mile to see is
rough and we're going through this a nice purf.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Good morning. I'm on the boat deck of the ferry,
and we woke up to a beautiful bright.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Morning sunny, only to find a steaming south to Suscimuate.
And I kept hearing when I woke up, so like
over an hour, all these bumps and bumps and bumps,
and I thought, man, the ocean is choppy.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
It's really choppy. These waves are hitting us.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But when I glanced out the window, I found that
we're sailing on glass.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The problem is we're not sailing on glass.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
We're sailing and had been sailing through most of the
night through an iceberg field.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, like you see off to the left are off
in the distance is the coat.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We're really close on board because we're coming into Sissima
in another thirty minutes or so. But for most of
the night we've been sailing through an iceberg field. And
what I was hearing where the icebergs bounce off the hull,
which is interesting because this ship was made to take it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
This ship was.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Rebuilt nineteen eighty and poll it and has icebreaker capabilities.
So it's a ferry with icebreaker capabilities, but it's.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Not you know, you can just hear that. We just
had that big ass bump from hitting that. It's not
an icebreaker.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It's just meant to go in these waters, and it
was redesigned and rebuilt to go through heavy waters like
this with nodes of surface ice on it. So one
of the funny things was I said that if I
ever get hit by if I ever hit an iceberg,
(13:00):
I'm going to drink champagne. So I actually have champagne.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So I'm in the capital of nuk Greenland.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Little loud because I'm on the road, but I'm in
the capital of nuke Greenland. Where you can see this
is the bay where Hans Asia. That's this statue that
you can see right back there at the top of
the hillside. The Lutheran missionary established his mission in the
early seventeen hundreds here and established missions.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
All up and down the western coast.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
That is a part of the Inuit culture here and
the Danish culture coming together. This is the bay where
it all started. And his house, the oldest house in Nuk,
is right down there.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
This is the billionaire yacht La Datcha, belongs to a
Russian oligark.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And was involved in the shooting incident on the coast
the other day.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
This is a one hundred million dollar ice breaker with
helicopter pad in which the rich and famous can all
proves about.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And drink vodka.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And here it is in the harbor.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
We're generally run.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Hey, what are you going to fist? I'd posted you alone.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
He's got machinery. Watch his life. It's a terrible life.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
M If you see the little mermaid behind me. That's
(15:32):
because right now I'm in Copenhagen and I've finished our
analysis and assessment of northern Central Greenland and Nook the capital.
But I'm back in Copenhagen to talk to Danish officials
because Denmark, and.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
This statue signal wise is that is a seafaring nation.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
They were the ones who after Eric the Red had
gone to Greenland from Iceland in nine two, who resettled
Greenland with Hans Ilie the Missionary in seventeen twenty one.
This country has a very very long tradition of being
(16:13):
across the North Sea, from the Faroe Islands to Iceland
to Greenland. And how we would imagine that they wouldn't
protect that is a good question. In the center of Copenhagen,
in the serene, beautiful environment with its bonds, is this structure,
(16:36):
the Castellette. The Castellet is a military facility that is
still operate, still guarded by the Danish military, in which
tourists walk through and they can see this castle that
was built as a defensive fortification for attack from the sea.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It's not just a symbol.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Of Denmark's past on the sea, but its ability to
defend itself.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The question that we are going to ask, and the
question that needs to be asked, is it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
The United States decides to take action against Greenland, will
Denmark just let it happen.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Or will this building here in the center of the
city get a lot more busy. That has yet to
be answered.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Part of the answer to that question as to whether
Denmark would just let the United States walk all over it.
For Greenland can be found here in Churchill Park. This
nation has a history of both compliance. When the Nazis invaded,
they had an entire branch of the Danish Nazi Party
(18:02):
running this country, and then they had an entire resistance
that coordinated with the United States, Great Britain and created
a Danish underground with Danish.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Soldiers fighting and sacrificing their lives in this country.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I'm standing in Churchill Park, which is right next to
the Castellect, and we are also going to visit the
Museum of the Danish Resistance, which is the underground clandestine
fighters who fought in this country, helped pilots escape and
helped the Special Operations Executive and the American Office of
(18:44):
Strategic Services defeat the Nazis from within. Resistance is also
a part of the Danish experience, and it's not something
that I think we should forget.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
Malcolm Man, thank you so much for taking the time
to be appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's truly my pleasure.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I'm going to jump right into the matter of the issue.
The Wall Street Journal, the newspaper Wall Street Journal, has
two unnamed sources saying that the United States will start
spying in Greenland. Does that story seem trustworthy to you
as a former intelligence officer in the CIA, Well, based on.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
The sources that the Wall Street Journal has, yes, it
seems very reliable. Two sources came to the journal and
said that what happened was the National Security Council and
Director of National Intelligence had placed what we call a
collection emphasis onto Greenland as a target. And that means
(19:44):
the collection of National Intelligence Watch officers principally from Defense
Intelligence Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, Directorate
of National Intelligence, and any other of the seventeen Intelligence
Group would start placing their assets to bring Greenland up
(20:06):
as a much bigger target right now. To be quite
honest with you, I've worked for years in this community.
Greenland was never a target.
Speaker 7 (20:15):
It no, I can I can imagine according to the
territory of Denmark. According to the Wall Street Journal, the
directions that were sent from Toulza Gabbertt, who's the Director
of National Intelligence, and the recipients of the message were
the hits of the CIA and the NSA and so on.
As you just mentioned the various agencies. What does that
(20:38):
tell you, Well, first.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Off, it tells me this is top down tasking. This
means it comes from the President, the National Security Council,
to the Director of National Intelligence, and then out to
the senior heads and commanders of the intelligence agencies themselves.
I want to make note because I worked principally with
the National Security Agency. They just fired the general in
(21:01):
charge of the National Security Agency and the career civilian
deputy director. The civilian deputy director is the most important part,
because the commanders of the NSSA rotate all the time.
The deputy director is a twenty year or more career
intelligence officer who would be very loyal to the laws
of the United States. So by decapitating that agency, they
(21:25):
could put in a new general in charge of NSA
or admiral in charge of NSA and choose a deputy
director who would be more than willing to carry out
these orders. I'm going to be frank with you. I've
spent decades, almost three decades or more in the intelligence community.
This is, without a doubt, the single stupidest collection emphasis
(21:47):
I have ever seen.
Speaker 7 (21:48):
I want to get into that howid's stupid, but I
also just want to touch upon what you just said.
There Malcolm Nancy.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Is that.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
First of all the seven what resources do you mobilize
when you bring out this message? When the Direction of
National Inteligy puts out this message, you know, is it
just moving Greenland from somewhere you've never seen Greenland on
the list somewhat up the ladder, or is it suddenly
seventeen agencies deploying agencies of Greenland.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
What are we talking about here, Well, let's step away
from traditional intelligence methods human intelligence methods like deploying agents
to Greenland. This would be more along the lines of
the Director of the National Intelligence passing it down to
these agencies. These agencies will come up with an emphasize
collection plan. That collection plan will be based on whatever
(22:46):
tasking targets she wants. So, if the tasking target from
the United States government, right, the commander's intent from the
National Command Authority is they want to know everything that's
going on in Greenland. Right, Well, it's pretty simple. You
go to the consular officer and you ask them what's
going on in Greenland. It's a very small country. I've
been here over a week. I've gone through the from
(23:08):
the Arctic Circle all the way back down to the
capital area and the central part of the country. It
is a very small country to collect. The question is
is Denmark actually the target or is it the Prime
Minister of Greenland or the local you know, committees who
are in this area, or the Danish warships that are
(23:29):
patrolling in the area, or Arctic Command. That means it's
going to happen in one of two ways. It will
happen with either collecting general generic information that we know
having doing you know, having done cooperative operations with the Danes,
or it could mean a super top secret collection emphasis
(23:50):
where they now go after the phone structure, they go
after your emails and everything from the leadership of Denmark
to gain intelligence about them, mindset of the population, what
resistance the population could put up, What would the United
States have to do? It really depends on what Donald
Trump has directed from the top down.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
Given what the Walls journalist is reporting. It's about engaging
What kind of support is there for the United States
in Greenland? What kind of support would that be for
extracting raw material, different kinds of resources from the underground.
Are you saying that what you're looking at is much
(24:35):
more than that or is that just a qualified guess
what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I wouldn't call it a qualified guess. I call it
a professional assessment. To get that information, that's easy. You
can just go on Twitter, x TikTok, you can watch emails.
That's open source intelligence. You know, people here in Greenland
have been saying openly and publicly what their opinion is
about this. Now you need to go an step or
(25:00):
two down. What does the Danish government itself feel about this?
What would they do if in the next step of
a crisis, How would the United States deal with Greenlanders
or give information or give money or give resources websites
to Greenlanders? The one or two to make it appear
(25:23):
like there is a false groundswell of support for the
United States that would facilitate their moving to the next
step of annexation. And let's be clear about a few things.
I've only spent almost forty years doing this. Annexation in
this particular circumstance is not buying Greenland. It would be
taken Greenland by force in opposition to the Danish government
(25:47):
and a fad A company and letting you just decide
what you're going to do after US forces show up here.
Speaker 7 (25:53):
And I want to get into that particular part what's
going to happen next. I just want to drill just
a bit about because I had a question here saying
should the Danish government be worried? Now it seems to
me that what you're saying is, yeah, the Danish government
should be worried about this, because this is as I
hear you, this is not just about reading what's in
(26:14):
the greenlanding newspapers. This is about, in your assessment, trying
to get intelligence about what's going on in the Danish government.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Well, you know, the United States is an ally, it's
a partner with Denmarket is a NATO ally and has
been since the end of World War two. Before the
end of World War two, right we were helping the
Danish resistance. Times have changed. The emphasis that Donald Trump
is placing on is his personal interest His personal interests
(26:44):
is the interests of the financial backers, the world's richest
man other technology billionaires, who have been pushing this greenland
plan for some time now for exploiting natural resources. It's
a very nineteenth century mindset the way that they're looking
at green It's just some territory to be seized, and
you know, to increase the size of the physical United States,
(27:06):
which is, you know, absolutely mind boggling that they're even
considering that. The problem is to do it, you are
going to have to have a physical presence in Greenland.
Greenland is not you know, the people here who I've
been meeting over the last week, speaking to people throughout
the country, they're not going to roll over except an
American flag and then shift and say we're now a
(27:28):
territory of the United States or an annex of the
state of Alaska.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
That's not going to happen, Which means that what's the
intelligent about what role does that lay in that in
that process?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, the key question that any senior commander is going
to want to know is what are you going to
do about it?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Why?
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, the Danish government, from the prime minister on down,
it's one thing to deal with this diplomatically. It's a
completely different thing to know what you really feel about it,
because diplomacy is the craft of the negotiation, in the
dance of discussion. That is not what they want. They
want to know that if for example, a special force
(28:09):
were to seize NUK Airport, raise the flag, detain your policeman,
tell your corvettes to stay off shore, and that this
is now the United States. They want to know what
you're going to do about it.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
But allow me to tending how what what kind of
I'm asking from I'm asking you, as an expert in
this particular feel of intelligence, what would you what kind
of help? What kind of assistance does h and as
a CIA operatives working on Greenland give to that mission
(28:40):
of an ex in Greenland? What can they do? What
would contribution be?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
You know, when intelligence officers in the United States and
in the military swear their oath, they swear their oath
to the Constitution of the United States. But one of
the unspoken rules in the intelligence community is we have
an unwritten law don't do anything stupid. You can be
ordered to carry out collection, You can be ordered to
carry out operations, to send in people to gouge that information.
(29:10):
You could be directed to give passive or even active
or financial support to people who want to subvert Greenland,
who are greenlandings ordains, and you can carry that out
without disobeying orders. But when you're talking about something like
forced entry or a special operation seizure, a fad of
complete operation which would bring Greenland into the United States
(29:33):
in one day. Then you're talking about people who will
have to make a moral choice about what they're doing.
If that's the case, then you're going to have a
lot of warning if that decision has been made, because
we have far too many professionals who would not betray
the alliance between NATO, everything that has been done since
World War Two, just because Donald Trump asked for it.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I understand that. I'm also curious as to what, let's
say that this is carried out, that the NSA, the
CIA will comply to the message giving from the direct
to National Intelligence. And what I'm curious about is basically
what will they bring back to the administration in order
to help them do whatever they want to do. I mean,
(30:16):
you know, deploying soldiers, that's one way to do it,
that's pretty simple. What will they be doing prior to that,
because they're intelligence officers, well, I.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Mean there's many different methodologies of collection that they can
do that will comply completely with the request that comes
from Tulsa. Gabbert's office and could satisfy them that they're
getting the information. But that would really be bringing in
wheelbarrows and wheel barrows of information that they know they
won't read information that they won't analyze, assessments that they
(30:50):
won't take seriously. This White House is not serious in
terms of with the intelligence. It's not serious as an
organization that deals in state craft. They are dealing in
inly like behavior where they think they can just imagine
it and it will happen. So fortunately this order can
(31:11):
be carried out. But I really believe that you will
have more than enough warning should it go from a
simple study to something more serious, like supporting a special
operation or supporting an amphibious operation that would take greenland
in many different places.
Speaker 7 (31:30):
I'm curious as to no, because, as you said, you
have decades of experience with the things we're talking about.
Here comes to mind a parallel situation, a country or
a territory where you can remember or and say, this
is sort of the dynamics that we've seen play out
(31:50):
here or there.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Now.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
This has never existed since the founding of NATA. There
is no parallel to this. This is the United States
behaving as if they are Russia invading Ukraine. That's what
the peril. The only parallel that it would come out
to the either this disruption of the political environment here
(32:14):
in Greenland, creating a counter force accounter culture that would
be illegitimate, maybe two or three people, and declaring them
as the legitimate people who speak for Greenland, and then
coming to their aid or rescue with a military force.
That's the only way that this can be carried out.
(32:35):
This is not the kind of operation that the United
States does well. And when we do it, like a
you know, example, Iran in nineteen fifties, it always ends
up in disaster. And in this circumstance, you're talking about
a NATO Article for situation where the territorial integrity of
Denmark would be encroached upon by the United States, you
(32:57):
would have enough warning that you could call ANNATO Council
meeting and see if you could hold it off, or worse,
a NATO Article five where Greenland is invaded, citizens are
injured or killed, and you were calling for the NATO
Alliance of the other thirty nations to come to your aid.
It's a situation we shouldn't even be talking about it,
(33:18):
so but were, But we.
Speaker 7 (33:19):
Are talking about and then I'm just I just got
a pause it there for a second because I do actually,
and this might sound naive to you, I can tell
you the viewers know this. I'm not an intelligence officer.
I have not been in any agency that has to
do with any of these things. So to me, it
just sounds like this can't be real. We cannot be
(33:42):
talking about American courses invading Greenland, but that is some
scenario that you do not rule out.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
This is without a doubt. I mean, I've been working
operations around the world for nearly forty years. I'm an
analyst on major television in the United States, a New
York Times bestselling author. I deal strictly in reality. I
do not play games. I don't delve in conspiracy theory.
This is, without a doubt, the single stupidest thing that
(34:13):
I have ever heard, and it is becoming a stupid reality.
And the only thing you can do is prepare for
the dramatic effect. That's that a decision that is clearly
in Donald Trump's mind. He has made a decision. The
only question he is very seriously concerned about is how
will Denmark and the other NATO alliance handle this. Will
(34:37):
it become a situation where the United States becomes a
pariah and can he deal with that? Can he manage that?
And is the financial gain of the territorial gain worth
the as we say, is the juice worth the squeeze. Well,
he'll have to make that decision and the consequences after it.
Speaker 7 (34:54):
So what you're also saying is that as the Wall
Street journald talks about writes about Greenland being the target
of intelligence agencies in the United it who should really
be worried about who's tapping the phones and their emails?
I suppose is the Danish Prime minister. Is the Danish
(35:14):
government is already of a covert intelligence.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Situation here. Well, if there's anything I can say about
Denmark and our allies is there's no need to do that.
The Danes will tell you everything you want to know.
They will make their positions clear. I don't think you
hold any cards close to your chest. I think that
the only ones that you would would be a defensive
action or an exercise deployment that you wouldn't want the
(35:43):
Americans to know about that they're going to gain. Within
the alliance, they're going to gain some information. We're very
good at seeing what our allies are doing as well
as what we're doing. But I don't think that you
have to worry about that. No, one's going to be
sorting through all of your emails. There's one thing I
want to people. When the United States does intelligence collection,
everything comes down to a human being. There is a
(36:06):
human being that must see the information it's collected, even
if it's done by computer. And the question is will
that person, as we say, throw it in the burn bag,
which means dispose of it to be destroyed and not
let it go up to do the National Security Council
or the Tulsi Gabbert because it's so ridiculous. I mean,
who wants to monitor fishing boat activities? You know in Luisa.
(36:33):
This is a waste of resources and a waste of time.
But again, the political side of this has decided that
there is some interest here and the only thing that
they really need to know is we know when they're
going to do it, how they're going to do it.
But I'm pretty sure at this point they've got it
in their head they're going to do it.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
Could be Could there be legitimate reasons for the United
States to be gathering information in Greenland?
Speaker 1 (37:01):
No? None, And the one person who would have been
the legitimate source would have been the US Agency for
International Development officer, who is one of three officers at
the US consulate who could get you anything you want
to know, right runway lens, you know, the fishing habits,
you know down in Katotok when cruise liners come in.
(37:23):
This is the kind of information that's operational. You know
how many what's the flow of icebergs coming out of
the you know the Alulasa ice feard. This is important.
That information, if it's done in Washington and if it's
done in some other remote site, is almost ludicrous. You
could really just read Orla Jolison's Twitter feed and get
(37:44):
just as much information as you want to know about
the mindset of locals than deploying intelligence resources.
Speaker 7 (37:51):
Because there seems to be at least an agreement about
that the Greenland has somehow been underprioritized, that we have
not paid enough attention, whether it's then mark in the
United States, we have not paid enough attention to the
fact of the geographic position right there that somehow this
will be or is already a sort of a key
(38:12):
to international security in the years ahead.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Let me give you a little farmer on how intelligence
analysis is done. The most important things are not who, what, when,
where or how. The key thing that we always want
to know. The most valuable intelligence is why why is
our opponent or why is our opposition doing what they're doing.
(38:39):
If you look at Greenland from the top down from
an Arctic polar map view, you would have to have
an enormous amount of climate change to make the Northwest
passage navigable enough to be valuable to go where the
flat of Astok to Shanghai. There are faster, better routes.
(39:00):
This talk about national security imperatives of the United States
with regards to Russia. Donald Trump and Russia are like this.
They speak the same language. They are not a strategic adversary.
There is virtually no Russian navy to speak of the
way there was in the nineteenies, seventies and nineteen eighties,
So I really would have to question what is your
(39:22):
national security intent for Greenland. You have one radar at Patufic.
That radar system is superfluous. It really went out of
style as a primary warning system in the nineteen seventies.
We have space based sensors which are far more accurate,
and that system in the Canadian alert chain radars is
really just a tertiary backup to determining if a worldwide
(39:47):
strategic nuclear strike is coming. And if that's the case,
you have twenty three minutes to the end of the world.
Why does it matter? So this brings to question why
does Donald Trump want this land?
Speaker 7 (40:00):
And we can guess on that, but let me just
I just the Danish government has stated that in reaction
to to the Wall Street Journal story about what we're
talking about here, Malcolm Nance that and I quote, friends
don't spy on each other. That's been the Danish government
response to the fact that it seems like the American
(40:22):
government will actually be spying on Dame Greenland. Is it
let's brought it out bit here? Is it uncommon for
the United States to secretly be investigating friendly countries?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, you know, everyone is an opposition right on the marketplace,
depending on where you're at. So I won't say whether
the United States have used that as a priority. I mean,
you know since World War Two when we had when
you know, when the government displaced the Canada. You know,
you always want to know one hour ahead of what
(40:59):
you're dinner, guest is going to want to order r
So in this particular circumstance, Denmark is saying, what is
very clear, you want to know something, come and ask us.
We'll tell you. The question is, what is the reason
why you want to know about the resources of Greenland?
What is your intent with saying that Greenland is an
(41:20):
American national security priority since you've had basis there since
nineteen forty one, and then in nineteen seventy two you
gave us beatific for one dollar, it is more of
a Danish national security priority and a Greenlandic national security
priority to ensure that their sovereignty is not exposed or
exploited by a country that thinks they're bigger than that.
Speaker 7 (41:43):
You've touched upon this from the beginning of this conversation,
and it rings in my head the question of what's next.
So from a dance protective we're looking at this. We're
reading stories that somehow American intelligence agents is going to
work on Greenland or whatever.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
What is next?
Speaker 7 (42:01):
You've touched upon that saying that, well, the United States
could have a plan of somehow taking over Greenan What
would that look like? What will we talking about I
know we have talked about it already, but a bit
more concrete, what would that look like?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, it's horrible that we even have to think about this.
This is again I'm going to couch this in what
I call professional intelligence terms. This is stupid that we
have to actually have a conversation about it. And that
is what is being said by intelligence aulicers all over
the United States right now. This tasking is stupid, But
the White House has got something in their head. They
(42:38):
are bringing that down to the community, and so the
community is going to come up with clever answers. The
single easiest way is for the United States to carry
out a special operation using an unmarked civil airliner carrying
two or three hundred Special Forces rangers, air Force combat
controllers who would take over your control tower O Bland
(42:58):
security squat officers who would take over your police and
secure your policemen, and they would land at this airport
at two in the morning without permission. They would seize
the airport, they would seize your parliament building, they would
seize your Prime minister, they would seize your police in Greenland,
and then they would race in Greenland and they would
raise the flag and say this is now the United
States territory. Now you have the rest of the country
(43:19):
to deal with. You have to land at Kanjalusha Eluciate
Asia Sisimiut these are places I've been to now, and
that will require follow on forces. Those follow on forces
are going to be conventional, and there will be more
than enough warning of guys calling their mothers telling them
they're taking cold weather arctic gear to go seize Greenland,
(43:41):
and you'll have plenty of warning to try to intervene.
But the easiest thing to do is, you know the
United States thinks this is unguarded, unprotected. Will prove to
them that Greenland is in Denmark's national security priority. Deploy
your marine regiment here and do you give the security
(44:01):
that they believe the American state doesn't exist here? Or
work with the French and deploy their alpine troops here
and carry out exercises. But so long as Donald Trump
believes that Greenland is not being well served by Denmark
with regards to security, you could resolve that issue by
carrying out better exercises, larger exercises, and stationing troops in Greenland,
(44:22):
and then they would have to justify what their mindset is.
Speaker 7 (44:26):
So what you're saying is that Denmark and perhaps even
NATO as such NATO without the United States, should somehow
prepare for some the terrens around Greenland deploying troops for
exercises or being prepared for just to show that if
the United States the two hundred ranges you talk about
(44:47):
were to land and nuke something would happen.
Speaker 8 (44:52):
Is that what you're saying, No, I'm just giving you
an option, okay, so that the United States understands that
you're taking the national security of Greenland and Dane Denmark's
interest very seriously.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I mean the Vice President himself said he was underserved
it wasn't being carried out by Denmark. I mean Patufix
Space base would collapse if Lars, the maintenance facility manager,
were to leave that base. It's serviced by the government
of Canada and Denmark locals work up there. But that's
(45:27):
two thousand kilometers over a two kilometer deep ice cap
from the capital of NUK. So if they believe that
you aren't supporting your country and are not supporting the
national security interests of NATO, well perhaps a greater demonstration
in the immediate future would help them understand that perhaps
(45:49):
the United States isn't needed to supply another reason.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
Before we move just to that point, which is obviously
very dramatic. I always know there's been this conversation about
trying to and this is something that the United States
has engaged in for decades, trying to change the you know,
the public opinion.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
We going to see that you think is.
Speaker 7 (46:11):
That part of the intelligence community effort trying to or
support the groups in Greenland that would like the United
States to take over. Are we going to see that
kind of a public diplomacy in sort of a malign
way to put it that way?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
I wrote an assessment about this back on March second
on my Special Intelligence substack called the coming invasion of
Canada and Greenland. One thing you absolutely will see, and
we are just starting to see the front.
Speaker 7 (46:41):
End of it.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
There will be a political and social destabilization campaign by
false groups that are claiming that they are from Greenland.
That is Elon Musk's wheelhouse. This is what he does.
He did it during the campaign. He paid you know,
millions upon millions upon millions of dollars. They will find
one or two individuals who will act as if they
(47:05):
are the anchor to an opposition group in Greenland, and
like the Russians did in Donatsky and Luhansk, right, you
can have a false referendum. These people with false entities
and operating in the United States or in other parts
of the world, will start flooding the information sphere with
false information about how the United States is needed here,
(47:25):
how Greenland is not being served by Denmark, how you
know leif Erickson was a genocide air. Whatever you want
to say, they're going to say it. And we just
saw the first touch of that. A false Facebook group
has just popped up with no followers out of nowhere
talking about Greenland for Greenlanders. This is a very very
(47:46):
big part of the MAGA playbook, but it will also
be part of the supporters of Donald Trump. It's the
techno billionaires that are really after Greenland, and you need
to be very very careful about the information warfare operation
they could carry out completely without any assistance of the
United States government. That will meet all of those goals
(48:08):
to allow them to carry out quite possibly a forceful
seizure of the island.
Speaker 7 (48:13):
Malcolm Nantz, I want to thank you for taking the
time to be here on the program and give us
your perspective on the rather dramatic events that are taking
place in Greenland at the moment. I appreciate it. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
I'm sorry we have to be here. As any good
intelligence professional knows, the key to operating or working within
certain environments that are alien to you is by understanding language, culture, history,
and geography. And in the case of where I went Greenland, weather,
(48:50):
it's very important you must understand the weather. The entire
concept of the klalis Suit people is the people live
there in their day to day existence depended on them
going out to the ocean and gaining what they needed
(49:11):
either through seal, walrus, polar bear, fish of shrimp, all
of these things that they collected from the sea, and
the entire basis of their belief system is based around
the tail. Their tail of survival is really based around
a story called the Mother of the Sea.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
The Mother of the Sea.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
If you go to Nook, Greenland, it's a statue that's
in the water and it's a woman, a bare breasted,
voluptuous woman who has long, long hair, and in her
hair are fish, the walarus, the polar bear. All life
springs from the Mother of the sea and the Mother
(49:56):
of the Sea's hair. So if you really want to
understand some of the ground dynamics of a culture that
you're going to, I recommend doing two things one watch
children's cartoons. Okay, sounds funny, right now. Every person in
these countries and cultures start by watching kids cartoons and
(50:18):
they often make reference to them. Another is reading history
books or books of culture like this one, which is
the story of the Mother of the Journey of the
Mother of the Sea, which will tell you what the
culture is like that the average person knows. This story
(50:39):
is emblematic of everything that is the culture of Greenland.
So of course I bought this book and I bought
topographic maps. Right, it's very interesting. I can't read the
entire story of the Mother of the Sea, but the
story is fundamentally like this. Long time ago, the people
(51:02):
of Greenland believed in the Mother of the Sea. She
lived at the bottom of the ocean, where she ruled
over all creatures of the sea. She was all knowing
and very powerful. From her dwelling on the ocean floor,
she would send seals, whales, fish and seabirds up to
the surface for hunters to catch. That's why the people
called her Mother of the Sea. However, if people began
(51:26):
behaving badly, she would become angry and with all the animals.
Then a shaman would have to be sent down to
clean and comb her hair, which would become tangled and
dirty as the result of people's misdeeds. She was so
powerful that only the mightiest of the shamans could visit
her at the bottom of the ocean. A shaman was
a wise person who had supernatural powers and was both
(51:49):
feared and revered. Shamans could cure the sick, predict the future,
and only a few women became shamans, but those who
did were more powerful than their male counterparts. This story
is really about a woman shaman who was at the
time a feeble old lady, and due to the misdeeds
(52:09):
of people, the fishing, the animals, the seals, the whales
became scarce, and her village was starving. The story is
essentially that she goes down to the bottom of the
ocean and goes through all these trials and tribulations to
meet the mother of the sea. When she gets to
(52:30):
the bottom of the ocean, and mainly because by the way,
her husband who was fishing, was not catching anything and
everyone was starving, and she wanted to break the spell
over nobody eating, nobody surviving, which is the key you'll
understand about greenland and culture. It's all about community and
(52:52):
personal survival. No time for animosity when you have to
satisfy yourself, fee yourself, store food away for a long time,
and respect the mother of the sea. This story starts
with the story of the old woman who goes to
the bottom of the ocean, goes through trials and tribulations
(53:13):
to meet the Mother of the sea and to see
if she would entertain her wish to allow bountiful food
whales seals to come back. So I'm going to start
you here, and we're going to skip a little bit,
but this is the fundamental part of the book. The
old woman crept through the entrance and entered the house
(53:34):
of the Mother of the Sea. What a sight. On
a bench sat an enormous woman with a thick mass
of long, tangled hair draped over her body. This had
to be the Mother of the sea. She glared angrily
at her uninvited guest, and the old woman became a
little anxious. Then she remembered that her helping spirit would
(53:55):
come to her aid, and she would wait to see
what would happen next. And this is the picture of
the Mother of the Sea with her tangled hair, looking
angrily at the old woman who has come to ask
for help. The old woman, who is a shamed come here,
ordered the Mother of the sea, you shall clean my hair.
(54:17):
Just as the old woman reached her, the great woman
grabbed her with one hand and lifted her as easily
as if she was a baby. The Mother of the
Sea tried to toss the old woman into the stream,
but the old woman, helping spirit whispered, wrap your fingers
around her hair, and this will save your life. The
old woman did as she was told and clung to
(54:37):
the hair. Twice, the Mother of Sea tried to throw
the old woman into the stream like the Gulf stream,
and both times she clung to the great massive hair,
her fingers wrapped around it, like her helping spirit had
told her. Realizing she couldn't shake off the old woman,
the mother of a sea relented very well, Then clean
my hair. The old woman began to clean the Mother
(55:02):
of the Sea the hair of the Mother of the
Sea very thoroughly, untangling it with a large comb made
of bone. Bone instruments are critical to the Kalalasut culture.
They have bone instruments in the museum that are thousands
of years old. She carefully wiped the huge woman's face
(55:23):
with a soft skin cloth dipped in the finest boils.
When she was done, the Mother of the Sea said,
thank you, I have not been cleaned for a long time.
Upon your return to the land, you must tell your
fellow settlers to take care of the ocean. Underline that
(55:43):
when people do not care about the ocean and it
becomes polluted, I get covered in filth and become unsightly
and unkempt. And then I must keep the sea animals
from the surface in order to make people change their ways.
I must do this until someone comes down to clean me.
Ask everyone to remember this. People must not think only
(56:06):
of hunting and food. Even though the old woman hadn't
spoken of her mission, the mother of the Sea knew
of it and said to her, let me see what
I can do for you. Help me move my oil lamp.
The lamp was very large and bray heavy. They both
grabbed it and shifted it a little to one side,
(56:26):
and from beneath the lamp great flocks of sea birds
flew out of the house and up towards the ocean surface.
That's enough, said the Mother of the sea, and they
moved the lamp back the place. There's one more thing
we must do, said the Mother of the Sea, as
she moved to the opposite wall. Do you see that
large door? Help me open it. The old woman helped
(56:49):
the Mother of the Sea open the large door, only
to behold a strange creature, part animal, part human. You
must market, the Mother of the sea. How am I
to do that, the old woman asked, scratch a patch
between its eyes with your fingernail. The old woman obeyed,
and a bare patch appeared between the creature's eyes.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
That is good.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
This will be your husband's last catch, and for cleaning me,
I thank you. The old woman then departed, leaving the
dwelling of the Mother of the Sea. This is the
Mother of the sea. But the old woman meeting the
half human, half animal, which now allows them to catch food. Pappa,
(57:36):
I'm going to go to the end. One day, the
old man said to his wife, I'm going out to hunt.
She went back to her village and things became bountiful.
I'm going out to hunt seal in my kayak. The
old woman smiled and thought to herself, what is he thinking?
He hasn't been hunting for a very long time, and
(57:57):
his old kayak has been on its wreck behind our
house for so long it's probably useless, But she said nothing.
Before long, the old man returned from his front with
a seal in tow. The old woman went down to
the beach and was amazed to see he had caught
the finest seal in the entire ocean, with a pelt
as beautiful and smooth as silk. When the old woman
(58:20):
saw the beautiful seal had a bare patch between its eyes,
she thought of the strange creature she had marked with
her fingernail during her visit to the Mother of the sea.
The Mother of the Sea had told her that it
would be her husband's last catch, and she now knew
this to be true. Everything has happened as foretold, and
(58:43):
all of this came to be because the old woman,
to save her settlement from starvation, had the courage to
undertake the dangerous journey down to the Mother of the Sea.
The end. Now, I recommend you go to Greenland to
the National Greenlandic Museum, get this book yourself, and then
(59:04):
you can read about all the harrowing adventures of the
old woman as she went down to see the Mother
of the Sea. But this is their culture, and this
story is critical to every aspect of how they live.
They respect the ocean, they respect their kayaks, they respect
(59:24):
the food and bounty that they get from the ocean,
and they don't abuse it. Everyone there. I went out
with a lawyer. You'll see that when I went fishing
with a lawyer, and he had a sixty day license
to collect row caviar, red caviar from a very small
(59:46):
area where he was allowed to put a fishing net.
Everyone does this. The ocean provides and it wasn't just
to provide him food that he could sell to the
market that would go to Denmark.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
He ate that row.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
I had that row the next morning for breakfast. It
was brilliant. But the culture there is about respect of
the ocean and the people. And the problem that we
have is especially in this time of threatening these poor
innocent people who have done nothing, but each of whom
has a high caliber sniper grade caribou and wild muskox
(01:00:22):
hunting rifle, is that we are not respecting their even existence.
By having this conversation, and I hope that by giving
you a little bit of the taste of the story
of the Mother of the Sea, you understand where their
origins come from.
Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
With that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Thank you for being on this special edition of black
Man Spy. Every time you hear Donald Trump or someone
in his administration threatened Greenland, come back to this podcast.
Watch it, listen to it, over see the sights and
the sounds of Greenland. If you want to get there.
United Airlines is going to start flying NonStop from JFK
(01:01:01):
here in about a week in mid June, and you
can fly in Greenland. It's going to be in the
seventies during the summer. It's beautiful.
Speaker 9 (01:01:08):
You can hike there. Yes, it's oney seven hundred and
fifty miles of solid ice one mile deep. But the
south western side of the country, which is enormous. By
the way, it takes two hours to fly in any direction.
That art is hikeable, treckable.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
You can go there.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
You can go on a cruise ship. It's going to
be brilliant. So thank you for listening and watching this
episode of Black Man Spy. And I just want to
say to all of my followers in Denmark and Greenland,
it has been a pleasure to popularize your nation and
your territory.
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