The Rule of Law is in CRISIS! with Glenn Kirschner

Malcolm Nance in a riveting discussion with Glenn Kirschner, former federal prosecutor and legal analyst. They delve into the current state of the rule of law in America, dissecting the political landscape and its implications for democracy. With insights drawn from Glenn's extensive experience, they explore the challenges posed by executive lawlessness and the necessity of a unified front to uphold constitutional values. This episode is a must-listen for anyone concerned about the future of justice in the United States.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here's the one thing I'm confident of because I'm always
looking for points of light amidst the Trump induced darkness
on the rule of law front. Now I'm not pretending
there's not more darkness to come. It's gonna get darker,
it's going to get more painful, it's going to get
more unethical, more lawless, and more unconstitutional. And we talk,
we can talk about the data points that support those conclusions,

(00:21):
but the rule of law will come back into the light.
I don't believe for a minute these imbeciles and incompetence
are going to end the rule of law and our
constitution and our democracy notwithstanding their efforts.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
This is black Man's Spy. Hi, I'm Malcolm Nance. Welcome
to black Man's Spy. This week, I have another exciting
guest that you're just absolutely going to love because many
of you know him. It's Glenn Kirshner, former MSNBC contributor,
legal analyst, and a federal prosecutor with over thirty years experience.

(01:06):
He served in the US Attorney's Office in the District
of Columbia for twenty four years, rising to the position
of the Chief of the Homicide Section. AH that sounds
like fun, and in that capacity he supervised thirty homicide
prosecutors and oversaw all homicide grand jury investigations and prosecutions
in Washington, DC. And in this time of judicial of

(01:29):
how can I put it, executive lawlessness, he has some
pretty strong opinions about things. So buckaluck and welcome Glenn
Kirshner to Black Man Spy. Well, I'd like to welcome
the guest of this week's episode of Black Man's Spy,
which is my good friend coanalyst that MSNBC former co

(01:51):
analysts at MSNBC. Right, both former contributors here, Glenn Kirshner
of Mister Justice Matters himself. I love you on TikTok,
I love you on YouTube. I love you everywhere I
see you. Your people are reposting you all over Blue
Sky and even on that former Space X. You know,

(02:13):
I guess, which is just to piss people off by
putting your picture up. So thank you, thank you, thank
you for coming to this episode of the Black Man'spy podcast. Malcolm.
It's great to be with you.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I enjoyed our days together on Panel Off and up
at thirty Rock in New York. Yeah, recently I decided
to leave MSNBC and be one hundred percent independent all
the time. And you know what, it feels good.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's liberating, isn't it, because no one's reading your emails
and then standards and practices isn't calling you and going
you know, you called Donald Trump a rat bastard? Can
you modify that or delete that email? And of course
our text and as soon as you do, everybody in
Twitter land will come up and go waha. MSNBC contributor

(02:59):
deletes calling Donald Trump radbastard. Let me tell you it
was liberating joining the Ukrainian Army to to you know,
I don't know, did you break your contract or did
you just didn't renew?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I was with them for six and a half years.
I had six months left on my annual and sometimes
two year contract, and I asked them very politely and respectfully,
because I still have great admiration and frankly affection for
the people at MSNBC, if they would be willing to
release me from my contract. We worked our way up

(03:37):
through the chain and I explained why, and it was
really two reasons. One I wanted to be independent and
two I wanted to start going on center right outlets
to try to talk about the importance of the rule
of law in as a political way as I could,
to try to, you know, penetrate demographics that MSNBC does
not penetrate. I was preaching to the converted on ms NBC.

(04:00):
Of course, I've done some of that, and you know,
thank the thanks I get is pipe bomb threats sent
to me and my family. But we'll set that aside
for right now. I just wanted to follow Pete footage
Edge's lead and Eric Swalwell's lead and try to talk
and listen across the great divide. And I'm still trying
to do that. So there were a couple of reasons
I wanted to leave. They were very gracious. They released

(04:22):
me from my contract, with the only condition being they
asked me not to sign with anybody else in the
six months I had remaining on my contract, which was
not a problem because I will not be signing with
anybody else as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Right well, you know, I love MSNBC. Rachel Maddow is
the person who brought me into MSNBC, and I love
and admire everybody that I worked with there. I had
nothing but professionalism at that channel, and I hope someday,
like you, you know, to be able to go back

(04:58):
and impart opinions as they stand. But now let's talk
about what's really important, and that is the state of
the rule of law in this country. Right now. I'm
just an old veteran. I'm just an old sailor, a
very loud mouth xnate, you know, retired navy chief, and
I got some things to say about it, but none

(05:19):
of them have any legal weight behind it, none of
them have any education behind it. Tell us what the
hell is going on with the rule of law in America?

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, Malcolm, So, I'm just an old army guy and
old army jag starting back in the eighties, and then
I ultimately transitioned to the Department of Justice after six
and a half years of active duty. Got to handle
lots of great court martial cases, lots of great criminal
appeals on the government side. When soldiers would be convicted
at court martial and they would appeal their conviction, I

(05:50):
would essentially be the prosecutor in the appellate courts, handle
debt penalty cases, espionage case coming out of Desert Storm.
And I loved my Army time and my army career
problem is back then they promoted you out of the
courtroom at the six or seven year mark. So I
decided to leave the Army join the Department of Justice,
and that's where I spent twenty four years as a

(06:10):
prosecutor in the courts of Washington, DC. And my frame
of reference, Malcolm, for the rule of law is thirty
years of one hundred percent a political prosecutions. We made
our prosecutorial decisions based on the facts and the law,
and I swear I will say this under oath. Never

(06:30):
once was there a hint or a whiff of politics
in any case I handled or I supervised, because I
supervised hundreds virtually of federal prosecutors over my career at DOJ.
And now it is the exact opposite. Everything is political,
it's dirty, it's nefarious. The rule of law is not dead.

(06:54):
It still has a little bit of life left in it,
but it is on life support. And here's the one
thing I'm confident of, because I'm always looking for points
of light amidst the Trump induced darkness on the rule
of law front. Now I'm not pretending there's not more
darkness to come. It's going to get darker. It's going
to get more painful, It's going to get more unethical,

(07:14):
more lawless, and more unconstitutional. And we talk, we can
talk about the data points that support those conclusions, but
the rule of law will come back into the light.
I don't believe for a minute these imbeciles and in
competence are going to end the rule of law and
our constitution and our democracy, notwithstanding their efforts every damn day.

(07:36):
And I want to talk about Pam Bondi saying the
judges are deranged, because that is a really important and
telling data point for where we are right now. So
you know, Donald Trump and company know that they cannot
act lawfully and constitutionally and accomplish the horrific things they

(07:58):
want to accomp So they're trying like hell to walk
the rule of law deep into the woods and shoot
it dead. But they're not gonna get away with it.
I don't believe they're gonna get away with it. And
I don't think that's opium. I don't think it's me
being Pollyanna. One reason is the federal courts. If you
want to jump right into that, you if you don't

(08:20):
stop me, I won't even take a breath for the
next half an hour. So you're telling me if you
want to jump in, no, but that this is important.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I mean, you know, because I need hope. I you know,
I'm I'm not here to to you know, just try
to cope and think that do nothing and say nothing,
and hope that things are just gonna come, you know,
work their way out. Look, if the analogy you just gave,
I'm hoping it's not. You know some scene from a

(08:47):
movie with the Mansons, right, I hope you know where
the guy comes out whistling and chewing gum and cleaning
off his weapon. I hope it's the scene from Gladiator
where they take them into the forest and are about
the stab them through the neck, and he turns around,
kicks their ass, kills everybody goes home. So I you know,
I don't know the strength of the system, because for

(09:10):
a while, a long while, I'd been told the guardrails
are strong, They're designed to check each other. However, look,
I'm a son of Philadelphia. I'm a real originalist to
the Constitution. I walked the streets and raised in the
streets of where this was all developed. And my problem
is that they wrote those they wrote the Decoration of Independence,

(09:34):
the you know, the the and the foundations of the Constitution,
and then wrote the Constitution and ratified it with the
belief that men are of good heart and goodwill, and
the places where they allowed for people to be rat bastards.
They just didn't understand that there would never be another

(09:55):
you know, King George the Third wannabe, or as I
call him, King Matt King Donald, who would say everything
that you wrote works but for me, and I wrote
in my book Plot to Destroy Democracy that what Trump
and Maga really want is what I would call a
constitutional dictatorship or a constitutional autocracy, in which the Constitution

(10:20):
is a fig leaf in order to hold over for
people who adhere to their rule of law as they
see it, and everybody else loses it.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yes, constitutional dictatorship sounds like an oxymoron, right, Yeah, it
sounds like you're right. They want to pretend to abide
by the law and the Constitution all the while taking
a blowtorch to the Constitution. So you asked the question.
It's an excellent question and one for which I do
not have an excellent answer because we haven't been through
this yet. Will the guard rails hold is the rule

(10:53):
of laws strong enough to prevent us lapsing into dictatorship
into autocracy. We don't know the answer to that question
because the ending is as of yet unwritten. But again,
there are some data points. As a thirty year prosecutor,
I have to look at evidence. I look at data points,
and I try to draw reasonable inferences from those data points.

(11:14):
That's what I urged juries to do for thirty years,
because you know, you have to provide evidence and information,
often circumstantial evidence.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Lawyers like to use fancy terms so they can build,
you know, six minute increments. But all that means is,
you know, if you go to bed, look out your
window before you go to bed and the ground is drung,
and you wake up and you look out your window,
out of ground's all wet. Did you see it rain?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
No?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Can you draw the reasonable inference that it rained? And
can you conclude beyond the reasonable doubt that it rained? Yes,
ladies and gentlemen, I urge you to hold the defendant
accountable for his crime by voting guilty. So but what
if the defense attorney said, nah, nah, water truck came
by in the middle of the night and sprinkle water

(12:05):
all over everything. Well maybe, but then there has to
be evidence of that, and of course there is none
because we checked the county truck schedules and it didn't happen.
This is the way we try cases. This is the
way I reach conclusions based on evidence and applying reasonable
inferences to that evidence. Let's look at some data points

(12:25):
right now. When Pam Bondy, who is trying to destroy
the legitimacy of the Department of Justice so she and
her corrupt cronies up to and including Donald Trump can
grift away and enrich themselves, she says the judges are
deranged of all. That is an ethical concern which should

(12:48):
warrant a bar council referral of Pam Bondy because that
is the opposite of what the rules of ethics provide.
We are supposed to say how we're supposed to handle
ourselves as attorney, particularly when it comes to the judiciary
and cases in the judiciary.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Quick aside, you said it should should have a bar
council referral. Which bar would that be? If she's a
member of the Florida State bar, it's Florida. She may
be a member of multiple state bars. Let me give
everybody a thirty second Justice Matters law school class.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
When you're a federal prosecutor. People might not know this,
but you go to law school, you graduate, you take
the bar exam, you pass the bar exam, you are
now a barred member of the state, typically your state
of residence. I was barred in New Jersey when I
was practicing law. Once you hold the law license from
one state and you join the federal government, the Department

(13:41):
of Justice, you are permitted to appear in courts all
across the nation, federal courts, all thirteen judicial districts, jurisdictions.
You just have to hold one law license. However, some
people hold multiple law licenses, like Rudy Giuliani was barred
in New York and was ard in Washington, d C. Now,

(14:02):
ironically he is barred from practicing law in both of
those jurisdictions because he's been disbarred in both of those jurisdictions.
He's lost his law license for what he was trying
to do for Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
So if Pam Bondi loses, let's say that she does
something outrageous right, which is coming if it hasn't already occurred,
it's just a question of detection and backbone. In that case,
let's say, hypothetically Florida disbars her because she clearly violates
the constitution set someone off who knows what it is.

(14:38):
Can she remain as Attorney general? Yes, yep, you will
have to be a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
President can appoint a non lawyer to be attorney general.
And of course he is the all powerful, omniscient, omnipotent,
quasi king courtesy of the Supreme Court's presidential And which
was my next question. Yeah, but the question the public
needs to understand that when the Attorney General of the

(15:06):
United States stands up and says that the judges are
quote deranged, I would ask her. And this is why
I wish mainstream media, corporate media, legacy media would actually
do the job I believe they should do. I was
a journalism major undergrad. I have a reverence, a deep
reverence for both a study and the practice of journalism.
I learned that the knee of my mentor, Clark Mallinoff,

(15:28):
storied investigative journalists from the Des Moines Register, who was
Richard Nixon's special counsel until a special assistant until Nixon
went rogue. And then my Professor Clark Mollenhoff turned on
him and showed his effing head off in and you
can go back and look at the old news reels
of White House press conferences. Anyway, I have a deep

(15:49):
reverence for journalism. When Pam Bondi says the judges are deranged,
I would ask her, Okay, I need to know who
you're talking about, miss Attorney General. Is Judge John Coffin
Hour was the first judge to announce that Donald Trump's
attempt the constitutional guarantee of birthright citizenship is quote blatantly unconstitutional.

(16:16):
You know who appointed Judge Coffin Hour to the bench,
Ronald Reagan, President Ronald Reagan. Or are you talking about
Judge Harvey Wilkinson, who said, with respect to the Abrego
Garcia case that if Donald Trump can deport Abrego Garcia
in violation of his constitutional due process rights, then he
can deport American citizens in violation of the Constitution, and

(16:40):
he can deport his political opponents in violation of the Constitution.
Who was it that appointed Judge Wilkinson to the bench.
That would be President Ronald Reagan. Wait a minute, not enough.
Might you be talking about Judge Trevor McFadden who just
said you can't bar the AP from White House press
conferences or events because it violates the first Constitution. He

(17:02):
would be a Trump appointee, or maybe Miss Attorney General.
You're actually talking about Judge Terry Dowdy, who just days
ago said it looks like Donald Trump's ice agents deported
a two year old United States citizen in violation of
er constitutional due process rights.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Who was it.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Let's see that appointed judge? Now, oh, that was Donald Trump.
These are the deranged judges, Miss Attorney General. No, you
are acting like the deranged person because you are spewing
propaganda to the American people and trying to destroy the
legitimacy of the Department of Justice. Cut it the hell out,

(17:42):
play by the rules.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
You know. I every week I do a podcast with
Michael Cohen and Love Parnis, And you know Michael, of course,
who went to jail for years because Donald Trump turned
the GJ against him in a soft fashion, right through
process and all of these things and got him convicted.
I think we're beyond what he's going to do with

(18:06):
Michael Cohen. I think the DOJ and this is just
my opinion, of course, but the Department of Justice is
now really, for the first time in American history, a
lethal weapons system, a knife and a dagger that is
being honed by the President. And I used to be
unthinkable for the President to come out and say I'm

(18:26):
ordering the Department of Justice to carry out an investigation
of this individual.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
And when we're talking about the Chris Krebs right talking
about the who was the other one he directed be investigated,
I forget. But these are people who committed no crimes.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Oh no, no, no, Now they've committed crimes. Donald Trump
has already told the Department of Justice what to investigate.
This is upside down topsy Derby world. This isn't This
isn't even the Court of King George the Third because
they at least had system in place, all right, that
respected some form of rule of law. This is completely

(19:05):
to me as a citizen, this is lawlessness. Now the
Department of Justice is a weapon system. And I hate
hearing the phrase they've been weapon nines as opposed to
they are now a lawless organization that is carrying out,
you know, illegal acts. Malcolm.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Let me one other example of that. I just interviewed
Liz Boyer, the fired pardon Attorney for the United States,
you know, and she was also a federal public defender
for ten years, doing the hard work of protecting not
only her clients but the Constitution. And you know, she said,
you know, I love my public service as the pardon attorney.
And yet when you know, a missive came down the

(19:48):
Donald Trump's friend Mel Gibson wants his gun heights restored,
even though he's a convicted domestic violence offender. And she said, no,
I certainly can't do that, and she wrote a memo
to that effect. She was like, you know, frog march
out of the Department of Justice literally hours later, locked
out of her office, locked out of her files. They

(20:08):
wouldn't even tell her anything about her health benefits now
that she's left the Department of Justice. This is lawlessness
and retaliation and corruption writ large in the harsh light
of day, and they're getting away with it for the moment,
day after day after day after day.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
So this cuts over to Donald Trump's use of executive
orders for literally everything. You know, I personally look forward
to the day that he goes. Malcolm Nance wrote four
books about me, and I'm issuing an executive order against
him because then I get the platform to come out
on television and call him the rat bastard that he
is and then explain in layman's terms, the problem is

(20:49):
by using this, by using executive orders, Donald Trump has
superseded all powers of all other branches of government. Are
they actually legal? And how do we determine? When are
we going to find out? You know, that they're not legal?
Because apparently he's not withdrawing any of them. He's just
are you know, are they all just being adjudicated in court?

(21:11):
And he's just going to lay back, drink and pina
colada and then watch everybody argue while he dismantles the government.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, a lot to unpack there. So, first of all,
he has emasculated the Congress because so many of these
executive orders are running roughshod over the you know, what
are really the rights of the legislative branch. And thus
far Congress has been willing to lay down and just
take it. And I think there will come a time
perhaps that that will change. I think they may have

(21:39):
their August nineteen seventy four moment when they will have
to march on the Oval Office and say, mister President,
you're done because and I'll talk about this at the
end if I have a minute, and I hope you'll
remind me. It's kind of comparing what's going on today
with what went on during the Civil War when the
Union was at risk and what people had to do
to overcome their fear and keep the Union intact, and

(22:01):
what I think we are facing today and we will
be facing it in full focus very shortly when he begins.
Trump begins to openly defy all Supreme Court orders and rulings,
and that is what I'm I'm rooting for him to
do that, and there's a reason I'm rooting for him
to do so. Going back to the original point, executive orders,

(22:23):
court after court after court are issuing what are called
temporary restraining orders or preliminary injunction saying stop, executive order
is blatantly unconstitutional.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Stop.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
And all of that is working its way up through
the appellate courts. But here's a shining example to support
the assertion you made that Donald Trump is signing unlawful
and unconstitutional executive orders one after another after another. Judge
Oric is a judge out in California. He is the
one who just told Donald Trump stop this nonsense about

(22:55):
defunding city, county quote sanctuary cities, stop it, and he
issued a restraining order. Here's the thing, Judge Oric is
the exact same federal judge who during the first Trump administration,
when Donald Trump tried to do the exact same thing,

(23:16):
punish sanctuary cities. I will always put that in quotes
to get them to bend the need to him. Judge
Oric ruled that it was unconstitutional, and the Ninth Circuit
Court of Appeals affirmed that ruling and said it's unconstitutional.
Judge Oric just opened his opinion with here we go again.

(23:37):
What does that prove, Malcolm? It proves that Donald Trump
is knowingly and intentionally what have already been deemed unconstitutional
executive orders. This makes him a repeat offender on the
unconstitutionality front. And I think I want to see more

(23:59):
of this, not less of it, because once the Supreme
Court begins to issue rulings or as Justice Soda my
or called it recently, in the Due Process Arena edicts
the executive branch what it cannot do, and he begins
to openly defy them, and I believe he will. That

(24:20):
I think will galvanize two important swaths of the American population,
law enforcement, and the military, because then they will have
a choice between obeying and abjectly indeed constitutional president of

(24:41):
the United States, who is trying to end our constitutional construct,
obeying unlawful orders, or disobeying lawful orders. He his lawlessness
is going to make it easier to make that difficult decision.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Do I obey or do I disobey?

Speaker 1 (24:59):
And as we both, I was taught an officer basic,
I was taught again at the JAG school, we must
disobey unlawful orders.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
You know, we had this discussion last week when I
had Lieutenant Commander Bobby Jones from Veterans for Responsible Leadership
on and we had a huge discussion on duty, you know, honor, courage, commitment, duty, honor, country,
integrity and character in the armed forces. And then we
got right down to that question, what do you do
when an unlawful order comes up? Patently unlawful order. And

(25:32):
in fact, I'm going to Greenland next week because they
it's pretty clear we're going to eventually evade Greenland suitor
probably rather than later, if we're not at war with
Iran this week. Put that aside. But you know, to
do it, you are literally going to have to order
Special Operations troops, CIA officers, Air Force Para you know,

(25:55):
para jumpers, and you know, combat controllers to go and
see a capital city. And then you're gonna have to
bring up Department of Justice officers. You're gonna have to
have DHS officers, Immigration and Customs officers. Which is why
and the reason I'm going this week I should have
gone two weeks ago, is because we found out that
the US Consulate is being moved from a five hundred

(26:18):
square foot hut for two consular officers to a thirty
three thousand square foot concrete building dead center in the
heart of the Capitol, which, as I like to say, coincidence,
takes a lot of planning. But to do it, a
lot of people are going to have to view the

(26:40):
president's orders to invade another NATO nation as lawful. And
you look in the Special Operations you can you know
they just created the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The new guy was not qualified to be there. Former
Air Force two star, a guy who wore a hat
that said, you know, maga hat in uniform and told

(27:02):
Trump he will dot guild for him and die for him.
Has now been made the chairman of the Joint Chiefs,
by the way, brought out a retirement above multiple four
star officers. So by creating an alignment of officers as
you know as a JAG and by the way, firing
the top three JAG officers in you know, judge advocate

(27:22):
general officers in the Department of Defense. They are they
setting up for an unlawful ordered chain of command that
will be responsive to them.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
They're trying, and I believe they will fail because let
me tell you something, Malcolm, I do not believe for
a minute he can fire his way through ethical military
officers or NCOs or enlisted men and women. I don't
believe for a minute he can fire his way through
all ethical JAG lawyers. Try though he might, you know,

(27:56):
and I'll give the veterans on this that are viewing
this will know. But another thirty second team justice law
school class, you know, as we called ourselves, trial counsel,
which is basically a military prosecutor in the jagquar handling
court martial cases. The other thing I was was the
legal advisor to all of the commanders at six Infantry Division,

(28:19):
Fort Richardson up in Alaska, and so sometimes a soldier
would disobey an order, and maybe the company commander would
come to me and say, you know, Glenn, he disobeyed
an order. I tried to give him what's called non
judicial punishment Article fifteen punishment, which is minor punishment for
minor military infractions, and he rejected it. Because a soldier

(28:41):
has an absolute right to reject Article fifteen punishment and
demand to be court martialed if they believe I have
a good defense or they have done nothing wrong. And
the company commander was like, now I want a court
martial the true I said, well maybe you can, maybe
you can't. Let's talk about the order you gave him
or her and whether it was lawful, because if it
was unlawful, they had a responsibility to disobey it, and

(29:04):
I will not ask the convening authority to to, you know,
profit court martial charges against him. Sometimes I had to
give that hard advice, but it was my job. It
was my responsibility and my sworn oath to the Constitution
to make sure that nobody was forced to obey unlawful orders.
So this is and I believe there are more Mark

(29:27):
millies than there are Mike Flynn's in today's military, and
I think Donald Trump will end up learning that the
hard way.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah, but this goes to the point that this is
exactly why Pete Hegseth was chosen as as the Secretary
of Defense. And his first thing was we're going to
you know, gets rid of lawyers, right, so he could
start doing things in dead of night, approaching to kill
all the lawyers, right, kill all the lawyers, and and

(29:55):
and get you know what he calls increase our lethality.
Increasing your means you also want to ignore any casualties
that may occur in that I've been you know, I
didn't want to get to divert this far into it,
but you know, I've spoken on television and radio and
podcasts about Donald Trump's comments about the annexation of Greenland

(30:18):
and turning Canada into the fifty first state. And when
I gave an interview to the Globe and Mail in Toronto,
I said, are you aware of what he means by
annexation of Canada? He says, you know, Trudeau said, he
wants to economically destabilize you. And then what you wake
up one morning, you all take down the makele lief

(30:39):
and raise your hand and swear an oath to the
Constitution of the United States. I said, no, he's talking
about invasion, and to do it the soldiers up there
at Fort Drum right in Watertown, New York, which literally
looks at Canada. You know, are you going to have
those order those soldiers who go across the bridge every

(31:00):
weekend and drink in Ontario and have a grand old time.
Are you gonna order them in the customs officers to
go up and shoot and kill the Canadian Border police
and the Canadian Army soldiers that they coordinate with. I said, now,
you're looking at a situation that, for the first time,
perhaps since World War Two, will devolve into mutanty, and

(31:23):
it will be a lawful mutanty where they go, we're
not doing that. That's in patently unlawful order. And you
can fire your way down through the division, to the brigades,
to the companies, and you're gonna have this sixty forty
split where sixty percent will say no, and then you

(31:44):
have that hardcore crazy forty you know, the barracks lawyers
and other guys who will be like, we got to
follow the orders of the president, and you get into
a you know, a situation like you had in the movie,
you know, Crimson Tide, where the exo the execus all sir,
it's like, no, we're not longer, We're not gonna wipe
out the world, and the other guy goes, well, I

(32:04):
have orders to wipe out the world. And the problem
is we could literally see Donald Trump cause the United
States Armed Forces to have, in my opinion, a lawful mutiny,
and it would where the army is like, we're gonna
sit this out, Chairman of the Joint chiefs of Staff,
will be pumping out orders do do unlawful things, do
unlawful things, and you're gonna have could literally have the

(32:28):
National Guard unit in a state say yes because they're
from a red state, and the first line US Army
units say no, and we're gonna be someplace that has
never existed in the history of the United States, or
has it. What would you say?

Speaker 1 (32:44):
No, Yeah, if it comes to that, I think we
cannot predict how that ends or what that looks like.
But I think what you've just described, unfortunately as a
pretty good likelihood of where things end up. But you
know what, they don't have to end up there. And
I'm not going to say anything that people don't already know.

(33:06):
But long ago, it seems we have discounted trying to
pressure the Republican Party to save the Union, right because
we've convinced ourselves that they have no spine, they have
no courage. They don't even have a single vertebrate back there,
and they're not going to find one or sprout one
anytime soon. So we've kind of just almost given them

(33:26):
a pass now. But an old homicide detective who taught
me how to be a homicide prosecutor back in the day,
used to say, pressure bursts pipes, and we have to
start pressuring the Republicans again. I actually applauded Senator Murkowski
when she recently said we are all afraid, because she

(33:48):
was speaking for her party and the members of the Senate,
and you know, to which I would say, you know,
there was another time when a lot of people were afraid,
right during the Civil War, when people had to step up,
grab muskets or you know, muzzle loaded rifles, step out
onto grassy open fields, put life in limb on the line,

(34:12):
fight sometimes brother against brother. You can bet they were
scared to death, but they overcame their fear and they
saved the Union today, Malcolm, the Republican Party, the Republicans
in the House and the Senate don't have to pick
up firearms and step out onto grassy fields and fight

(34:34):
brother on brother or sister on sister. All they have
to do, literally, all they have to do is cross
the aisle to save democracy. Right, just cross the aisle
to save democracy. You know, I've been you know, ending
this rant with a riddle recently. You know, why did
the chicken cross the aisle to save democracy? It is

(34:58):
not it's actually that heavy a lift. Yes, Donald Trump
will try to primary you, and he'll I still don't
understand why there are only two Republicans Kinsinger and Cheney
whose patriotism motivates them more than their own job prospects
or re election prospects. But all they have to do
is cross the aisle to save democracy. And Malcolm, let's

(35:20):
face it, then they get JV. Vans. I call him
JV Vance because that dude, he is ever going to
make the varsity team. But you know what, maybe they'll
they'll promote him to the varsity team. You'll still have
your Republican president. Maybe JD Vance won't have the appetite
to end our democracy that Donald Trump as so you know,
you could actually end up getting more of your Republican

(35:43):
agenda to the extent you ever decide to focus on
that again, you could get more of it pushed through
with JD. Vance. Why are you not crossing the aisle
to save democracy?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Michael Cohen and I had this discussion last week, and
what we wanted to do was start a project because
I suggested it. I said, you know, democracy can be
saved by applying that Lincoln tactic of start promising things.
Why isn't HAKEM. Jeffries literally having all of his members
find those six you know, four or five Republicans who

(36:16):
are in blue seats, go to them and say, you
four can literal five starting with Don Bacon right, you
five can literally save the American democracy republic, and we
will give you whatever position you want in the in
the caucus if you become an independent and caucus with

(36:37):
the Democrats and flip the House so that we don't
have to wait for twenty twenty six. And Michael Cohen's like, whoa,
this is a great idea. Now he's starting a campaign
to pressure these guys, and as you say, the stakes
of saving democracy from a very patently obvious dictatorship. It's

(36:58):
something I certainly if if I was given that opportunity,
and we're all being given that chance now, right, why
not take it? But you know, I think that Republicans,
and I know personally Republicans fear their constituents and they
really fear their constituents with guns. And it's not about
losing their seat. It's not about being primary, I think

(37:21):
in most circumstances. And that say I think Lisa Murkowski
was talking about was the death threats. You get death threats.
I get death threats all the time, you know, and
you know they're really worried about that. My last book
was called they Want to Kill Americans, The terrorists, malicious,
the militious terrorists and deranged ideology, the Trump Insurgency. There
is an insurgency. And I had said before that book

(37:44):
came out, in real time with Bill Maher, I said,
if they if they win, they've become a unofficial, depth
self deputized enforcers of Trump's will. And that's where they
and I said, if they lose, they'll become an insurgent group,

(38:05):
which they did. They had the insurrection soon after that
but I think they all feel very smug right now.
But there is a band within them, you know, and
you know, guys like Ivan Raitlin, that former Special Forces
colonel who calls himself the Minister of Retribution. That these
guys really want to go out and kill people. And
this is what Republican congressmen are worried about, is they

(38:28):
think they're gonna be the next Gabby Giffords, only on
a large scale. And we have to give them backbone.
We have to give them enough support from both you know,
from our side of the aisle to let them save us.
Otherwise people are get to wait for the twenty twenty
sixth election, and there may not be one because of

(38:48):
the next part the question I have about you, the
Enemy Aliens Act. The Republicans are talking like we are
at war. They are saying we were in by a
hostile force. Let's assume that there are one hundred members

(39:08):
of the trend to Agua, you know, a gang, and
let's assume there's a thousand members of MS thirteen. How
under any legal definition does this constitute an invasion? So
that the Enemy Aliens Act could not only be invoked,
but that the Supreme Court allows him to.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Use it doesn't and the court just told him it doesn't.
That's why they issued preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders
because that is also likely unconstitutional. So we can ask
these questions all day long, how is this legal? How
is that legal? It's not, and the courts are telling
him it's not. Now Procedurally, here's where we're kind of

(39:52):
stuck because we've got temporary restraining orders and preliminary injunctions,
but those are like emergency stop gap measures. What those
don't do is fully litigate the legality of invoking the
Alien Enemies Act when we're not at war with any
foreign country, and so it's going to fall entirely. But

(40:15):
we're not litigating that yet because we're still in the
emergency stop gap posture very early on in this litigation,
and Trump is taking advantage of the courts moving slowly.
They're speeding up for sure because they see it. They're
dealing with a runaway, you know, corrupt president of the
United States. But eventually, even the Supreme Court, I believe,

(40:39):
will say, yeah, you can't invoke the Alien Enemies Act
and start deporting Venezuelan migrants because they have a soccer
tattoo that you think looks like a gang tattoo and
paying to have them prisoned in El Salvador. You can't
do that for half a dozen reasons. So to answer
your question, it's not lawful, it's not constitutional, and they
can't do it. But they do, and they're going to

(41:00):
continue to buy. They keep pulling us closer and closer
to the true constitutional crisis. Cliff, He's going to plunge
us into the unconstitutional abyss and I look forward to that.
I want to see it sooner rather than later, because
that will help galvanize the opposition, not only in the
civilian population, but I believe in the law enforcement and

(41:22):
military populations as well. And ultimately that's who we need
at the end of the day to stand strong because
Donald Trump believes Mike makes right and he believes he
holds all the weapons, and I don't believe he will
when he continues to violate our constitutional construct.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Well, I'm seeing violations of the constitutional construct every time
I get up. You know, I used to get up
at three thirty in the morning to write because that
was like the quiet time, three thirty to six am.
Then I can go do PT run the dogs whatever.
Now I get up on a sheer effing anxiety over
what the hell, what mayhem has occurred? Because Donald Trump

(42:00):
tweets about two am. Right, he starts doing crazy talk
very late at night or very early in the morning,
and you know, I dread to open up my phone
to see what craziness has happened. One of the crazy
things that really bothers me, okay, is the fact that
they're the Department of Justice apparently has brought upon themselves

(42:23):
a ruling that ICE Immigration Customs Enforcement, which, by the way,
I don't believe these words would ever have come out
of my mouth at any other time in history. That
organization needs to be disbanded and rebuilt from the ground
up using British airport or British cops who teach people
how to be polite. They are bringing Australians or Irish

(42:48):
guys because they have turned themselves into apparently, you know, DHSHSI,
ICE and CBP SWAT teams have all decided they are
special forces and that they now are the arbiters of
what can and cannot be done, and they apparently love

(43:08):
to execute the orders of Pam Bondi and Donald Trump.
So I understand now they're saying that they have the
right to enter anyone's home and carry out a search
and seizure of illegal immigrants. Because I'll tell you something,
I have people coming to me right now. I know.

(43:30):
I'm I'm my senior NCO. I'm getting pissed off. Voices
starting to rise. But I have people saying there's gonna
be a gun battle if somebody, without announcement, without knocking,
without identifying, without a uniform and a warrant breaks down
my door to look into my house for illegal immigrants.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
And to tell them to have another look at the
Fourth Amendment, my favorite amendment.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Right, I've read it.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Persons the right of the persons, not the right of
the city. Read the damn document. The right of the
persons to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
affects shall not be violated. This is an easy call.
Stand up to the corruption of the administration. Don't sell

(44:19):
yourself and your honor and your ethics and your integrity
and your oh down the damn river. Do the right thing.
You'll sleep better at night if you do the right thing,
even if it means you lose your job. Cheney and
Kinsing are lost their job. Good career federal prosecutors are
losing their jobs every day because they're standing up to

(44:40):
the corruption. But do the right thing.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
But you're appealing to their inner you know, General Millie,
their inner Oscar Schindler right to do what's right in
the face of what's wrong. The good people who are
in that organization are capable of stopping them when this thing.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Goes careening out of control. Is it salvagible? That's a
question that I can't answer. And maybe it's not salvagible.
If the infection had run so deep and has taken
hold and the patient can't be cured, well, then sometimes
you have to rework the entire agency top to bottom.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Maybe that's what I'm saying, bring in bringing Have you
ever met British cops, Australian cops, Border.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Patrol people almost in the family, yes, yes, and you know.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
But those but they start from a different perspective the
United States, And I look, I trained as a swat
cop uh with with Capitol Hill Swat when I was
in the military. I went to the school UH for
you know, for their H. H. Heckler and Kotch's Special
Tactics School and it's run by all Los Angeles Swat

(45:49):
Team guys. Right, the way that cops now or it
appears that ICE is running, is that every person is
an armed criminal. I have to assume they're armed criminal,
and I will engage with them that every encounter is
a full scale felony stop as opposed to, hey, you know,

(46:12):
little old lady, you've got this document, you have to
come with us. Uh. And I'm afraid for them because
I think that they may in fact be careening out
of control. Well well, well we're gonna pick this up
at another time because I'm not sure whether this this
is as important as the fact that there are officers

(46:33):
who think the Fourth Amendment no longer counts. I mean,
at this point, I'm ready for them to start quartering
ICE agents and Border patrol officers in my house. Right,
well known third Amendment.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
We never we never had to talk about the Third
Amendment before huttering soldiers in our homes against our will.
You know, that's right.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I have to feed them, right, But you know, I'm
afraid now because I'm afraid as a patriot that that
I can't. I'm having a hard time, and I think
I speak for my viewers in believing that these people
will do the right thing at the right time to
other Americans. They're taking children who are US citizens, and

(47:13):
instead of saying yo, yo, guys, this is a US citizen,
these three kids can't go. You can bop the mom,
you can take the mom out, you can take the
dad out. But this child here is on chemo. And
I think what we need to do is we need
to talk to you know, local law, local you know,
you know, child services or whatever, as opposed to screw

(47:34):
them on the plane US citizens. I don't care on
the plane.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Compassion doesn't intimidate. Callousness does. And that's why they are
acting callously.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
The problem is for me, as a person who spoke
at Auschwitz in twenty nineteen about never Again really, which
was the name of the conference we spoke on. It
was about the rise of authoritarianism in the United States
in the West. And now you're what you're telling me
is I gotta for every one Oscar Schindler, there's gonna

(48:06):
be what two one hundred very callous you know, you know,
officers who will execute orders which may go far beyond this.
And I'm afraid and I think I speak again for
the audience and saying, we're afraid that our own government
and law enforcement has moved to the state of tyranny,
and that these people who are supposed to be protecting

(48:28):
serving us, including myself, including you know, the former intelligence
the people who are in the intelligence community under Tulci Gabbert,
may enjoy the fact that they are going to be
weaponized and do something fun and interesting, but the target
is American citizens. And that's I'm gonna need a shipload

(48:49):
more reassurance before I can believe that this administration, which
is the Declaration of Independence says right, who's every act
defines a tyrant is unfit to be the ruler of
a free people. And you're saying, is law going to
protect us or what's the counteraction? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
We you know, I could answer, but it wouldn't be
an honest answer, and I feel compelled to speak the
truth as I understand it. We don't know if the
guardrails will hold. They should, but but we make our
decisions based on some sort of minimal, minimal respect for

(49:32):
the constitutional division of the powers of the branches of government.
And if you have an executive branch that will absolutely
not recognize the authority the constitutional authority of the judiciary,
as as the epitome of which is the Supreme Court.
When the Supreme Court says the executive branch can't do

(49:56):
this because it's unconstitutional. If you have an executative branch
that says, yeah, I got your own constitutionality right here,
I'm doing it anyway, there's no we can't answer the question.
Will the guard rails hold?

Speaker 2 (50:09):
We don't know, But didn't the Supreme Court create a
snake eating its tail by giving Donald Trump absolute immunity.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
If Donald Trump says I don't like the ruling by
Justice X, go pull him off the bench and imprison
him without due process, without any legal charges, without a warrant.
Just do it, because guess what I get to do
it in my core constitutional functions. I am absolutely immune

(50:40):
from prosecution.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
And guess what, I.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Can pardon you for carrying out my unlawful directive because
the pardon power is another core constitutional function. So basically,
the Supreme Court justices wrote their own sort of political
or judicial obituary. If Domald Trump chooses to go that route.
The good news is they're the Supreme Court, so they

(51:05):
can do whatever they damn well please, including revisiting that
president if Donald Trump defies their orders. So you know what,
there's always a little track of light somewhere, but I'm
not gonna pretend that that light will outshine the darkness
that we're experiencing.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Right now, I am fanning myself with a Faraday bag.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
So that I can protect my electronic transmissions, because apparently
what you're telling me is is that you know, at
any given time, we can all be in Richard the Third,
you know, and people could be asking for us as
meddlesome priests to be eliminated, and it would all be legal.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
But let me make one last point before we go,
and I give you my last question. If my viewers
have ever watched the movie Justice and a Judgment at
Nuremberg with Spencer Tracy, I always call to the fact
that the people who are being prosecuted in the judgment
at Nuremberg, right, Burt Lancaster is the Supreme Court of

(52:04):
Nazi Germany. In the lawyers, the attorney general. I believe
also everyone who, as Spencer Tracy said, when you made
a ruling that you knew legally would send people to
their deaths, and you made a ruling that made it
legal to take property from people that you know, you yourself

(52:28):
created a lawless state through laws, and you know, it's
always remarked to me and I say this every time.
And Frank was breaking the law by being a Jew
that was hiding from the Gestapo, and her neighbors who
turned her in were obeying the law of the Dutch

(52:52):
Nazi Party to turn in every Jew to send them
to their death. So what can our viewers do as
count What is it going to be? I mean, is
it going to have to be? I'm calling for a
second American revolution, what I call the people power color Revolution,
where we get fifty million people onto the streets. Uh,

(53:13):
you know, don't forget seventy six million voted for Kabla Harrison.
We've only gotten out five million thus far. But legally,
what can we do that will you know, that will
prevent them from carrying out the Insurrection Act for just protest.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I've often thought in recent weeks, when his poll numbers
are getting so just obscenely bad for him, that he
is celebrating that he wants one hundred percent of the
American people you know, against him, because that will drive
people out into the streets. So he'll use it as
an excuse to invoke the Insurrection Act, the Claire Martial Law,
and then accomplish what he asked his folks to do

(53:49):
during the first term. Just shoot the protesters in the legs,
for God's sakes, right, so that may be where we're headed.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
What call you'll do?

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Everybody wants to know what can people do? First of all,
do something rather than nothing, because nothing will never make
you feel good.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Do something.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
And I'm not going to run through the litany of
the somethings that people already know about. Contacting every elected
official from your city council or town council member up
through your United States Senator. I don't care if it's
red or blue, because pressure bursts pipes, call them all
early and often write them. Do all of that. Protest, protest, protest.
I spoke at the last hands off rally a few

(54:28):
weeks ago here in Loaden County. We've got one out
in Barryville, Virginia on May first. I'll be speaking at
that one as well. Protest protest, because you know, courage
really is contagious and it's important, so keep doing that.
But you all know that, right, you all know that
you can give to your official, your your your candidates
that you believe sort of align with your political interests

(54:50):
and priorities. All we all, we know all of that.
Here's the thing people may not think of, and this
is really important. It's not intuitive, but it's important. There
are nonprofit organizations right now, Malcolm, as you well know,
that are in court every day fighting for our rights.
Literally dozens of nonprofits. I always hesitate to start spitting
out the names because I can't possibly cover them all,

(55:13):
whether it's CREW or ACLU or American Oversighted Democracy Now,
they go on and on and on and on. In
a very real sense, these people are our lawyers. They're
in court every day fighting against the lawlessness and unconstitutionality
of the Trump administration, and they're winning hands down in
almost every case. But we're not retaining these people, we're

(55:34):
not paying these people, we're not supporting these people. But dang,
we should be supporting these people. I'm not saying start
you have to send money to every organization. I'm not
saying that. I don't tell people who to donate to,
but you know what, you can maybe help raise funds
for these organizations that are supporting and defending our rights,
make calls, knock on doors, set up a card table

(55:56):
outside your grocery store. These are our lawyers, our battles,
but we're not even paying them to do it. Please
so you can go on just Security, which is a
great website. It has a litigation tracker with every single case.
Fine nonprofit organizations that you think are doing the work
that you really value, and help them in whatever way

(56:18):
you can, because doing something always feels better than doing nothing,
Plus it helps the cause.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
All right, Well, great, okay, I feel a little better.
Like I said, I'll use my electronic shielding badge bag
to chill ax for a minute. I'm gonna need a
lot of double espressos to work my way through the
things that you've said today. But I do feel somewhat
a bit of hope, and more importantly, I feel informed

(56:46):
now because I'm hearing a lot of stuff out there.
We know people are not watching unfortunately, not watching MSNBC anymore.
I got people tell me right to my face, never
gonna watch it again. So they're not hearing Joyce Vans.
They're not hearing some of the big names who were
out there, who would normally be the loss, the loss
plainers in chiefs of what's going on out there. And

(57:07):
there's a lot of things that that I think people
need to know about. And I'm glad you came on
here and explain them to me, even though you've you
know you're gonna make.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Me get though we scare them, but Jesus out of
each other all the time. I know you scare me
on the national security front all the time. But here's
what I'll say. And yes, I love Joyce fans and Barbaquay.
I learned from them. But independent media is on the
rise importantly. So so for example, I'm on substack now.
I went to the substack counter programming to the White
House Correspondence dinner. I used to go to that dinner,

(57:38):
but I missed the enamored of it anymore. So I'm
on substack doing a legal splainer every night sometime between
seven thirty and nine pm on the legal issue of
the day. It's a ten to twelve minute stream of consciousness.
I try to follow the comments as they pop up
and answer questions, but it is, you know. I I
try to translate everything from Legalese into English, and I

(58:00):
do it every night live on substack. I do it
every day on my Justice Matters YouTube channel, I do
a legal analysis video every single day, seven days a week.
We are almost at a million subscribers. We have nine
to ninety eight today, so I would appreciate anybody who
goes on and subscribes. It's always free and let me
hasten to ad. I don't put anything behind the paywall,

(58:21):
even on substack, even though I can there are ways
you can support me, but I don't ever want to
put a single word of my content behind the paywall
anywhere because I have been blessed with thirty years of
being able to learn the criminal law and processes, and
I just want to use it now to help fight
for democracy, because guys like you and me, we're like
free agent democracy fighters right now.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
That's what we are, all right. Great, well, thank you
for coming on black Man Spy. Thank you for bringing
the legal world together with you know, the followers and
practitioners of the intelligence world in military world, and explaining
for my viewers just how dire the situation is. So
everyone followed Glenn Kirshner on Justice Matters. He's on substack.

(59:04):
I'm on substack. Subscribe and then do something. Get out there.
And hit the streets. Thank you, Glenn for coming on board.
Black spy. I'm sorry black. I always say black spies matter,
Black man spy, and we do take care for those

(59:27):
of you who may not know it. The way that
we dispose of trash in the intelligence community is by
using a device known as a burn bag, and in fact,
a burn bag, which I'm showing here is a tan
colored bag with five red stripes five white stripes that

(59:47):
alternates down the side of the bag. And this is
where we put refuse that we can no longer use,
that needs to be thrown into a furnace and destroyed
so it doesn't fall into the hands of the farious people.
And that's why I have a section every week I
call burn Bag of the Week, and these are individuals
who really need to be thrown into the trash and

(01:00:10):
disposed of in a manner in which they can never
revive themselves. And this week's burn bag of the week
is the I'm using air quotes here Director of the FBI,
Cash Paatel. But Malcolm, what has Cash Patel ever done
to you besides spout off crazy QAnon theories and in

(01:00:30):
help subvert the rule of law During the entire Russia investigation. Well,
now he's the chief cop in the United States Federal
Investigations Body, and with his deputy, former Secret Service member
Dan Bomino, who is another person that has a real

(01:00:52):
problem with truth, they have both been elevated to the
number one and number two just positions in the Justice
Department for Federal investigations, that being the director and deputy
director of the FBI. But this week Cash Pattel gets
the special honor of burnbag of the Week because he

(01:01:14):
ordered his officers to arrest a judge, a sitting judge,
as she was doing her job of adjudicating the law.
Now I'm gonna go into details because everybody already knows
about this. He ordered federal officers to arrest this judge
in her chambers at court because in his interpretation of

(01:01:37):
the law has passed on through Pam Bondi and again
Air quotes the Attorney General, they decided that she had
assisted and harmored a illegal immigrant or an undocumented immigrant
from being arrested in her courthouse. Now, arresting this judge

(01:01:59):
has brought up us to the point where the judicial
branch and the executive branch are misusing law enforcement to
essentially nullify the position of a non a federal officer,
but in this case, a judiciary officer of the court,
because they don't like what she did. She runs her

(01:02:22):
courthouse the way she runs fit and federal law enforcement
officers going inside and arresting individuals is not about getting
criminals out of the United States or illegal immigrants out
of the United States. They were already in a court house.
It is doing it by the way that Cash Patel

(01:02:45):
and Pam Bondi and Donald Trump want it done, which
is to throw this our laws and the separation between
the equal branches of government, the judiciary and the executive
into the trash. And for that Cash can tell is
burn bag of the week. Somebody needs to tie it up,

(01:03:09):
roll the top down, staple it across there, mark it
for burn, take it over to the hute, and throw
it into the classified disposal. Because what he did is
nothing more than decide that he is going to decide
what the Constitution can and cannot do with regards to

(01:03:31):
each different branch of government. Only a burn bag would
believe that this is something that he should do and
think that that is upholding the Constitution of the United
States with that this is the end of this week's
episode of black Man's Spot. And as you know, I

(01:03:51):
usually like to go out on a quote from RODGERD. Kipling.
I am kipling challenged these days because apparently people within
the United States are finding that their laws, their rights,
their freedoms are constantly being tested. So instead of going

(01:04:12):
to a nineteenth century scholar, spy, and poet, I've decided
I'm going to go somewhere a little more close to
our hearts. And I've mentioned this before, So I have
this mug from Steinhgen Pottery, Griswold, Connecticut, a husband and

(01:04:32):
wife that make these revolutionary war hero style mugs with
quotes from the American Revolution, the Founding Fathers, and other
great quotes from American history. And in this week, instead
of Rudyard Kipling, I'm going to read this quote from
Phyllis Wheatley, the African American poet from who lived in

(01:04:52):
Boston during the American Revolution, and she wrote in every
human breast, God has implanted a principle of which we
call love of freedom. It is impatient of oppression and
pence for deliverance. And I know if you're watching this

(01:05:15):
podcast or listening to this podcast. You believe in the
American love of freedom. There's an old joke that says,
British die for honor, the French die for love, but
Americans will die for freedom. The rest of the joke

(01:05:37):
is and Russians just die. But in this particular circumstance,
it's true. Americans love. The phrase liberty and freedom brought
us to where we are two hundred and forty nine
years ago. And this beautiful quote, which I love, it
sits on my mantle. I look at it from time
to time from Phyllis Wheatley, should remind all of us

(01:06:00):
the stakes of what we are fighting for today. We
are in the midst of a second American Revolution, and
it is our job to stand up and let people
power save the values of the First American Revolution, which
are under a full scale attack by a wanna be dictator.

(01:06:23):
Right as we said, every act which defines a tyrant,
which is on another one of these awesome months from
the Declaration of Independence. Thank you for coming to this
exhausting black man spy. I'm Malcolm Nance. I want to
encourage you to share this with your friends. Clip it up,

(01:06:44):
put it on Twitter, cut it up, put it on
substack and if you want, share it on Apple Podcasts,
which is where you can find it, Stitcher and other
great locations. And find me on substack. That's where I
do my writing. Like Glen Kershner, everything I put out
there is free. You can comment on it, become a

(01:07:04):
paid subscriber if you want to support me, and come
and join the conversation of how we are all going
to save the First Revolution by becoming the minute men
of the Second American Revolution. Thanks for coming. Hopefully I
will see you next week in some place that might
be a little different, but stay tuned and come back

(01:07:28):
and watch black Man spo