August 15, 2025 • 54 mins
Malcolm Nance welcomes Fred Wellman to Black Man Spy.
The pair discuss Trump's failed birthday parade, his inability to understand and reach veterans and the deployment of the National Guard in Washington D.C.
If you liked this episode, leave a rating on Apple Podcasts or share it with a friend!
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https://malcolmnance.substack.com/
The pair discuss Trump's failed birthday parade, his inability to understand and reach veterans and the deployment of the National Guard in Washington D.C.
If you liked this episode, leave a rating on Apple Podcasts or share it with a friend!
Click the link below to subscribe to our Newsletter:
https://malcolmnance.substack.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Only veterans know how to defuse veterans, and I think
this situation we have in Washington right now, we're seeing
the people start to hit the street. Last time I
saw the National Guard in Washington, DC and real strength
was on the evening of nine to eleven, and I
was very happy to see the National Guard next to
(00:20):
the DC police. This is a military occupation of the city.
They are trying to intimidate the black population, which is
now forty four percent. The rest of them are white
liberals in that city. There are very few conservatives. This
occupation of the city is going to get bad.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But I think the city assault the subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That was on U Street Corridor,
which is a drinking party street at night. And now
Janine Piro goes, I don't stop talking about how there's
no crime. There is no crime in Adams Morgan. There
is no crime in freaking Georgetown.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
On M Street for the National Mall. Did you see
the picture See the picture of the National guardsman on
the Lincoln Memorial. Did you know in twenty twenty five
there's been exactly zero recorded crime. I'm the National Mall,
but that's where the the National and do you think
it's a fucking points as, Malcolm, do you think it's
a fucking coincidence? This is a psychological operation exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
This is black Man's Spy. Hi, I'm Malcolm Nance and
welcome to this special veteran filled episode of Black Man's Spy.
I'm joined today by Fred Wellman. Fred is a decorated
Army combat veteran, political strategist and media hosts with more
(01:50):
than twenty two years of military service, including four combat
tours as a helicopter pilot, operations officer, public affairs officer.
After his military career, he became a leading advocate for
veterans and military families Don't I Know It, founding the
acclaimed public relations firm Scout Comms, and later rising to
national prominence as senior advisor and executive director of this
(02:14):
small group you may never have heard of, the Lincoln Project,
where he coordinated veteran national security affairs against authoritarianism and
played a key role in political messaging. Fred has also
served as a senior advisor and consultants and democratic campaigns
political action committees. Host the On Democracy with Fred Wellman
or f P. Wellman podcast on the mightas Touched Network
(02:36):
and holds degrees from a as a graduate of the
US Army Military Academy at West Point and the Harvard
Kennedy School. Fred Wellman is welcome to black Man's Spy.
This is going to be a great episode. Well, Fred Wellman,
thanks for coming on The black Man's Spy. It's been
a long time coming. You know, I love seeing you.
(02:58):
I love running into you when we're around doing veterans' activities.
And there's no greater veteran advocate I think in social
media influencers than you right now, and you're you're as
and as I understand it, we already did your introduction.
You're with the might as Touch network these days, I am,
And yeah, that's great. I can tell you have a studio,
(03:21):
you know, I have to use whatever Ramada in or
you know, when I'm traveling all around or my house
which is being renovated right now, which is why we're there.
But you know, usually on this show we try to
have a good time and lighten up some of the
more difficult subjects. Unfortunately, for my last five interviews, there
(03:43):
has been no way to have a decent joke. And
I know, you know, I'm wearing my navy hat for
you today because which is a joke in the start,
I tell you, well, the I'm wearing my navy hat
because you're an old army guy. And as two veterans,
two combat veterans who have been around quite a bit,
(04:05):
we have a very very different perspective on the world
and the way that democracy is going right now, our
geopolitical position in the world being compromised. I think that
we should get We could give the audience something they
don't usually see. I mean most of the pundits who
(04:26):
are out there that they see on mainstream cable, they
really insist on only speaking to generals. I just don't
understand that, you know, and considering you know, as I
read in your bio, you actually out rank and out
experienced Pete hegsith over at the endegot because you said,
you run what three platoons, right, yeah, he said one,
(04:52):
two company commands.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know, I mean I wasn't EXO and an S
three of the battalion, but you know, I never commended
to the time level. But yeah, it's you know, and
they gave the largest government organization in the largest military.
It's uh, the guys playing out exactly like we thought
it would. I mean, that's I hate being right sometimes.
I mean, He's be honest. I love being right, but
I hate being right about this.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Well, I think the most pressing subject to discuss today
is not the Trump Putin Summit. We'll get around to that.
Even though you know, as a you know, as an
old Ukraine hand, I really like to talk about these things,
but it's it doesn't even rank when you consider the
militarization of the United States that's going on right now.
(05:33):
First starting with Los Angeles. Well, actually, to be quite honest,
it started with is wanting the Great Trump Parade and
that parade which turned out to be an absolute flop.
You know, soldiers not even marching marching in route step
which I mean, as I recall because I trained Ukrainian soldiers,
(05:56):
that's for marching information over uneven land and in terrain
which is which is rocky. And it's like, last time
I looked Independence Avenue.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Was it was amazing. It was amazing. But Malcolm, my
favorite part, you know, Trump on to look all tough
and hangs out, you know, his new warrior. But my
favorite part there's a there's a video and there's a
picture out there of one of this. I think it
was a striker. I'm not sure, but it's an armored
vehicle some kind of passing in front of the of
the breadstand and the soldier the hatch is doing this
(06:28):
the heart sign. Dude. It was a dude. This dude's
that hey, we love you. And Trump looks back and
literally ate a fucking you know, like a like a
you know, a possum. You know. I was like, this
is the best day ever I.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Know where well you know what, only you know, only
military people can understand the subtilities of.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That big f you right, It's all the saft and
it was this universe. Even even the Maga magas like, wow,
they're like telling it the fuck off, but yes, that
is what they're By the way, can we cost this podcast?
I don't know if it's g of course, yeah, I
wouldn't if you thought there was no costing, but it
is just it's fucking It was amazing. It was the
most amazing cluster f I've ever seen, and I loved it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Man. It was my two my favorite moments of the
failed Trump Parade were one one of the m one
cruise was doing the Queen Elizabeth Wave from the risk. Yes, yes,
you can tell.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well, we are soldiers, right, we are what we do
expect we will fuck you immediately in the way job
that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
They put them in empty buildings, they managed ship. They
had to flip flop outside of the building to take
a ship and shower.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They took them away with their families on on a
holiday weekend. Uh and said, yeah, here entertained this fucker's ego.
Of course. You know, I kept telling people all along, Look,
it's an honor to march president. It is not okay
in some cases it is, but if you funk with
their lives, honored the president. You know, look, I did
one of my greatest things I did the mil Nichin said,
one of the one of the funnest things I did
(08:05):
the military. I was of Hawaii is a young company commander.
I had a Cobra H one cobra helicover company. Why
in nineteen ninety eight whatever year and had to be
ninety five, and it was the anniversary of Pearl Harbor,
and they had a huge the President Clinton and Missus
Clint came over, had a huge joint force parade at
(08:27):
wheeler Field up there in the parade Field wheeler Field
retchword ware Station, and stupidly they gave me command of
the flyover. I was the aero commander forever. It was
the coolest thing ever, and I remember but this is
why we didn't hate it, because they brought all these
World War II aircraft over on an aircraft carrier in America.
And so as part of that, we did a training
exercise where my Cobra company played out for as Landforce
(08:48):
is attacking aircraft carry right, so we got training out.
They actually integrated training into the parade. Man, it was
really cool, and my soldiers all got like Kamakazi Japanese
head bands for our helmets. It was amazing because again
soldiers always find a way, right, you get it, you know,
you know, we're like we did the pictures like the
Japanese and it was fucking hilarious. And needs said, we
(09:10):
got waxed, and we got virtually waxed. And you know,
a bunch of helicopters ty to attack an aircraft character
you know what you do, You're you're sailor. We got
waxed and then we did an overflight. It was the
coolest thing ever and then for the flyover, dude, it
was so funny. We're like, well, how low can we
go because you know, they want you to go real
high because the presidential security and we kept arguing over
because we don't, you know, it would look terrible. Helicopters
going ninety knots is really slow at a thousand feet,
(09:34):
you know, it's like and here they come. They come,
and we're like, we're combat aaviors. Now we want to
we want to fucking come in.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I talked to the Secret Service guy. I said, I said, look,
how it's gonna look like ship if we don't go low.
And the producer was there, he goes, well, I need
you in the shot. I'm like, you'll look at the
Secret Service guy. He's like, look, man, I don't have
a radar timeat now we're talking to Davy. So Malcolm
I brought. We came in. We fucking came in. We
(10:07):
had yeah, dude, yeah, we had to pop up over
the fucking palm trees on Yeah. That's I think they
were like surprise, like we came in. It was anyway,
that's a war story. That's not your worst.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
But the other part of that parade that I thought
was screaming laughable. Was there these reconnaissance platoons that they
have and the guy holding the drone in his head
walking and marching, and it was you can almost hear them,
whatever you do, don't fly the drone. So this guy's like, Okay,
(10:45):
fuck it, here's what I'll do. I will take drony
mcdrone fix in my hand and I will march with
the drone over my head. And the senior austers are like,
that's awesome, you know that really good this guy is.
And I said it as I saw it. I tweeted
it and I said, tomorrow morning, this will be the
(11:07):
most hated soldier on Earth. For every Army ridicule this guy.
And it was absolutely a disaster of a parade, not
just And when I saw the parade, I wasn't sure
of what the date was because I was traveling. I
(11:28):
was in France, and I saw the parade and I said, oh,
this is the dress rehearsal the day before, because they're in,
they're in, they're ocpbdus right, and they're just uh, you know,
march walking along, not marching walking along. So then somebody goes, no,
(11:51):
this is the parade, and I go, they're not in
their class as, they're not in picking grounds, they're not
in their service dress, unifor.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Have you ever have you ever been in one of
those parades, Mouthy, ever done one of those big dogg
and pony parades, Because I've done something I've seen.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I've been to a divisional change of command and everyone
it's an inspection as well as a brigade you know,
multi brigade parade and they're fucking serious.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
No, but I'll tell you what happened.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I tell you what.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So I've been in these victory but we did a
victory parade after Desert storm, the.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Desert Storm Parade in Dallas, and it was yeah, but
if you remember, but I'll tell you what, Malcolm, remember this.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Nobody remembers that the buildings echo. Okay, so nobody. So
even in rehearsal, you go down there and you've got
what you know, you can hear the guy. Usually somebody
somebody breaks into a uh, you know, a cadence, like
a light cadence, so we all get in stepped. Nobody
remembers you have to have marching fucking music, mean drummers.
(12:58):
If you look at the parade. Now, I because I
actually had somebody ask me at this and I looked
at it closely. They didn't do marching music. They were playing,
if you remember, they were playing like regular music, all
this bullshit music, right, right. And so you've got soldiers
who come into this echo chamber, right, and they probably
want to look good. I'm not gonna say they didn't,
(13:18):
but but the music's echoing. It's not marching music. The
music's loud enough and echoing enough that even if somebody
in the formation finally just said well, right right, nobody
could hear them. So there was never a chance. So
even they you see what I'm saying. So I'm actually
convinced they tried to like be out of step. But
none of these dumb fucks who threw this thing together
knew a fucking thing about parades. And you can't play
(13:40):
proud to be an American while you're trying to fucking march, right,
And so I mean, they have the whole fucking Old
Guard Fife and Drome there. If they just parked those
guys there and done, you know, done a rhythm mar.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, yes, they would have all synced up.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
They would have been synced up right before he got
there right got camera view that would have marched through,
but no, I had to had to play that music.
And it was a big and again it's because of
such a fucking clown show run by a clown ass
bunch of guys who just wanted to jerk off Trump.
It came out looking like a you know, like a
like a jerk of a certain show. You know, it's like,
(14:19):
you know, it's it's that baby.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I mean, they're even the aviation element of it was
a ship show because these guys were clearly flying about
five thousand feet a g l and like, and.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
They had to. They had this giant separation between elements.
So it'd be're like, now I go to best Steel
Day in France, and here's here's how first off is started.
By the way, yeah, that steel day is a passing review.
It is. It's a passing review. Of course. The President
(14:53):
of France and the commander of the Armed Forces go
by in the Dougall mobile, right and the giant jeep,
and then the passing review is passed for is where
the elements all step. They're actually along the chan delys
information and then they step into the road and go
(15:14):
down the chan delis information. Here's an interesting fact that
you just enunciated that we didn't do. They have speakers
every ten or fifteen meters with re simultaneous music which
is play and it's the exact same music that they
play every year, and it ain't rock and roll. It
(15:36):
is the march for Bastille Day, right, and they march
down in insanely perfect unison. I was there a couple
of years ago, and my favorite part of that was
the Navy. The French Navy always has a Navy liaison
officer and he always marches in the front four remember,
(15:59):
right of the elements. And the year Trump went, Oh
my god, the disgrace of this. The year Trump went.
The thing that impressed Trump he had never seen Bastille Day.
That and as an honor to the one hundredth anniversary
of US forces entering World War One, the entire fucking
(16:21):
parade was led by a six man World War One
dressed US Army color guard. And when I saw it on,
I was so proud to see that, right that the
US Army was given the ardor of leading the entire victory.
You know, you know Liberation Day parade, And I guess
(16:44):
the two black guys in the formation was what piss
Trump off. He didn't stand up to salute. They stood up,
and he didn't salute the US Army leading the entirety
of the French armed forces on Bastille.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It goes, and it goes to a larger issue, Malcolm,
is that Trump. Trump has never understood our norms and
our traditions. He's never just through a culture. He's always
had this very surface level understanding. And that's why he
wanted to He thinks we're supposed to look like tough guys.
The fact that he doesn't understand the US soldier goes
right to that parade. He doesn't understand it. We're not
We're not those guys. We're not gonna look to it.
(17:20):
And by the way, Joe and yeah, and Malcolm, you
could draw I did this, and I did a live
yesterday for my substack. You could draw a straight line
from what you just talked about him not understanding to
stand for the flag in France and for the World
War One memorial to a straight line to what's happening
in DC. Okay, because he thinks he thinks that we're
tough guys, we're gonna like like you know, Night and
(17:43):
Along not that were his his shock groups. And that's
not who the American soldier is. That's not who the
American military is. It's not who the volunteer military is.
Where he likes it or not, we're just not his
personal military. For us, we're America's sons and daughters, and
we were raised for eighteen years with certain values and
traditions long before the army or the Navy, or the
Marines or space fucking force ever got hold of us.
(18:04):
And Donald Trump will never understand that about the American
Volunteer Force because he thinks he just doesn't get it.
He watches fucking movies. He talks to Jackovs like you
know Pete, Hegseth, and he thinks he knows us. And
these the cultural mistakes he constantly makes is thinking that
we'd be honored to march for the commandergy on his
fucking birthday. You know you're right, but still day know
(18:27):
why they march. It's but Steel Day. It's their biggest holiday,
it's their liberation Day. It's been a tradition for hundreds
of years. It's not just something that Prence said all
on a birthday on the Army birthday, what coincident. It's
the same shit and it always goes to in somuch
and frankly, in a lot of ways is saving us,
I think, because the lack of understanding of our own
culture to include this idiot secretary of Defense is probably
(18:48):
saving us from worse things happening because these jackofs think,
oh the problems we're not screaming on them in basion
training them were No, No, the problem is we're not
fucking fascist, you know, you know, it's like you know.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I came in the military, was at late nineteen eighty
you know, went on full active duty in nineteen eighty one.
The Stars and Stripes newspaper, which by the way, Trump
tried to kill in his first term, Stars and Stripe
was published in you know, in World War Two it
(19:20):
became the daily newspaper of the United States Armed Forces.
You can get it on every military base. When you
entered the chow hall, their stars and stripes, every commissary,
every PX, Stars and stripes is there. And you know,
back when I started, they would still put Willie and
Joe the two World War two slackass what they call
(19:44):
professional hobos with rifles who fought in World War Two.
They were still recycling those cartoons, remember too, and you know,
along with Beatle Bailey, Sad Sack, you know, and and
some of these other you know, mocking character and worse,
(20:04):
the most subversive cartoon that you could ever put into
a US military newspaper, which is Calvin and Hobbes. No,
you just won't win. And every person, millions upon millions
upon millions of veterans, you know, understood that. You know,
Willie and Joe were. They're there to do a job,
(20:27):
and that job involved killing Germans and slacking off and
finding coffee and something to eat, or you know, wearing
a top hat into combat. They were irreverent, but they
did their job and they wanted to go home. That's
g I Joe, not a character from the comic books.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Okay, hely arm tours. I had a blog called the
Heavily because you know, you get it, you know you
every time I tell combat veteran, they go, yep, you
know I you know joke. We're always like, this is awesome.
Let's get a picture.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Always remember that.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You remember that famous picture when the third Idea arrived
and bag down. They're fighting their way across the bridge, right,
they're all, you know, And for the life of I'm
positive that right before that too, of the boys like
dude Selfie, like me, you know, because that's where we were, right.
I've got pictures from Deji's storm, like in the middle combat,
like me and my commander are posing in the hats
(21:23):
of an Iraqi tank, you know, doing the whole which way,
you know, But that's who we are because you know why,
because we're risking our fucking lives. And if you don't
have a dark sense of humor, if you don't have
an understanding and that what you're doing is different and dangerous,
and you know you're not able to laugh at that situation,
it will ruin you. And that's what's wrong with every
fucking war movie ever. That which is how Trump and frankly,
(21:45):
in my heart head seth know the military is. They
think it's all special operators, the silent professionals kicking down doors.
Like no, most of us are just clowns who signed
up because we love our country. Maybe one free college
and maybe I want to get out of my shitty hometown.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
The reasons you join are long, and then you get
in and maybe you love it, You're like, like, fuck, dude.
I used to joke, Malcolm. You know, I went to
West Point somehow, and I used to joke that I
hated so much. I planned to quit after every semester,
and then I ended up graduating by accident. I just
ran out of time to quit, like, well, fuck, I'm
in now, you know, I guess I'll say. And then
then but I got to do cool things. I jumped
(22:21):
out of airplane. I helicopters. I didn't actually jumped on
airplanes until I was older. But you know, I got
to fucking I went to jungle school. I prayed, I
crashed through the jungle, you know, shooting shit. I repelled
at helicopters. I flew helicopters. I got to go to
the Pyramids. I got to go to you know, all
these amazing places. Germany, drinking drinking beer at one in
(22:41):
the morning in a Bavarian guest house that had just opened.
It was at three hundred year old mill. We had
to find it in a snowstorm, and the lady the
house frau insisted we sit. None of us, spoke German,
and three of US staff officers, the third US Army
were there for a meeting right near Howenfels, and we're
just sitting there, you know, right, and we're just sitting there,
drinking a beer in this three hundred year old mill,
(23:03):
kind of trying to communicate. And I remember my seeing myself.
I remember, I'm a kid from Missouri and I'm sitting
in this gorgeous historic, you know building in Germany. This
is this is amazing. And so that's who we are.
And people like Trump and people like heg Seth and
people like others outsiders don't get that a lot of
(23:23):
us are just kids from so I know you, I
know your background. We were a kid from somewhere and
you know who wanted to be somewhere else probably, and
we fucking ended up doing really cool shit, you know.
I remember, I remember that that first battle of when
we flew into Desih Shield. I'm twenty five years old
from Kirkwood, Missouri, which is by the way, five miles
from sitting now, And I remember we crossed the border
(23:44):
and Malcolm, there was six columns of vehicles streaming into
southern Iraq and it was a clear day and as
far as I could see, there's just dust clouds of
vehicles going, I mean rankneck. If you saw it, you
wouldn't believe. It was like mad fucking Max and mean
shit strap all the vehicles, We're just like, get there, right, get.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Them, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
And I come flying in at the head of a
company of apaches, me and my three scouts. I got
six fucking apaches armed their fucking teeth, barely got off
the ground. And I'm thinking, how fucking cool is that?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
You know?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I mean, I'm like, you know what I mean, It's like,
oh my god, you know, I'm in war. I'm in
a fucking war, and this is amazing. And that is
probably what you said the first time you heard a
bullet obaya it is. It is not this fantasy of
yeah Roger two five two five move more than like,
holy fuck, was that a bullet?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Bombs, guns and helicopter rides. That's people, you know, It's
like the military. That's the fun stuff. You know. When
people say thank you for your service, I always say
thank my mom, thank my wife, my ya had seven
of us in at one time.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And Jesus man, holy shit.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now, so here's our National Guard soldiers or in Los
Angeles Marine.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah we didn't.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
We but I just want to I just want to.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Off came right now, going, can you guys talk about
what we fucking wrote down to talk about.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
This is It's important that you understand the mindset those
marines in Los Angeles. And I said, very early on
we had a a resistance organization meeting about this is.
You know, I wrote a political action committee now called
FH Vote Back Right, which stands for Focused Action, Focused
(25:32):
Action with Focused Objectives PAT. All right, So we don't
do nothing. We don't do anything in the resistance unless
it has a quantifiable result, all right. And one of
the things that we did when we were on the
Influencer's uh chat is I said, and I actually tweeted
this out. I don't care who you are, someone get
down to where the Marines are or the National Guard
(25:55):
are right now and start blaring out the village people
in the navy right, and it will have two effects.
One they will fucking hate it. Two they will start
losing their demeanor right and they will start laughing, and
(26:15):
then they'll start bopping. What you don't know is when
they get inside after doing a two hour stint of
standing out in front of you, this is the joke
that is ripping through the barracks, right, they played in
the Navy for US two Marines. You know, only veterans
(26:36):
know how to defuse veterans. And I think this situation
we have in Washington right now, we're seeing the people
start to hit the street. Last time I saw the
National Guard in Washington, DC and real strength was on
the evening of nine to eleven, and I was very
happy to see the National Guard next to the DC police.
(26:57):
This is a military occupation of the city. They are
trying to intimidate the black population, which is now forty
four percent. The rest of them are white liberals. Yeah,
in that city, there are very few conservatives. Conservatives live
out in Chantilly or you know, out in northern Virginia.
They don't even live in Maryland. And this occupation of
(27:19):
the city is going to get bad.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But I think you see the assault of the sub
subway Sandwich.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was on U Street corridor, which
is a drinking party street at night. And now Janine
Piro goes, I don't stop talking about how there's no crime.
There is no crime in Morgan. There is no crime
in freaking Georgetown. On M Street for.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
The National Mall, the National Mall. Did you see the
picture see the picture of the National guardsman on the
Lincoln Memorial. Did you know in twenty twenty five there's
been exactly zero recorded crime on the National Mall. But
that's what they DePoy, the National And do you think
it's a fucking coincids, Malcolm, Do you think it's a
fucking cou This is a psychological operation exactly Joe video.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
It's designed for Joe Rube. Okay, who's living out in
you know, Who's who's who's out in Courtelaine, Iowa, you know,
or Idaho or some other place out in the west.
Who thinks this is what the military is doing. We're
taking the city back by force. We're using our soldiers
who we actually don't care that Trump's a five time
(28:28):
draft dodger. This is ridiculous. So I had proposed that,
you know, I think we when we talked last time,
I talked to vote vets and some other elements and said, look,
you gotta get some vets down there with bullhorns. I
happen to have five bullhorns that aren't being used right
now in my house. Brand News still in the box.
And we got to go down there and what we
(28:49):
need to do is we need to lecture them. I
call it, give them the senior chief, Sergeant major talk right,
which is which.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Is over and over? Yes, Conscious States America from all.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
But you come out, you go attention all hands right,
blade hand of course you're gonna do that. This is
Sergeant Major blah blah blah. This is Master Chief, Senior
Chief Chief blah blah blah. We are here to recalibrate
your deployment. Number one, every one of you is subject
to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Your presence here,
(29:27):
in fact, may be illegal, and that is being adjudicated
in the courts. Number two, you are not authorized to
get to obey unlawful orders using force, injuring people, killing
people with your weapons systems. You individually can be court
martialed and tried for murder if you do that. And
(29:50):
just like you said, replay the code of conduct right,
the fighting you know, the American fighting man's code. And
when you get to the part of I am assault
you who serves in the forces of my country. I
am here. I'm willing to give my lives in their defense.
You go not in Washington D Street in Georgetown, right,
and you recalibrate what the laws that they have been
(30:14):
told that have put them where they are. So anyone
who's a veteran right now who goes this was a
very good idea. And I live within the Washington, DC
tried state area, feel free to grab your bullhorn and
just get down there. My question to you, Fred is
where the fuck is vote vets in common defense? Why
do we have these guys no offense to you know,
(30:36):
you know, to Amisha and you know and and these
other guys. But there is a time to try to
be the cooling saucer, common sense think tank that doesn't
want to get you know, you know that will be
ready their statements. I said this to national security leaders
from America as well. Yeah, and then there's a time
(30:56):
to get your ass out on the streets with your
banners and say vote vets is here. We are down
here in DC and we are playing the code of conduct.
We are playing the you know, we are reading the
oath of office. Fucking oath Keepers. Stuart Rhodes now doctor,
(31:18):
now identified terrorist group in Canada. The oath Keepers were
founded on this sentence. They are officers, police and military
and veterans who will not use who swear an oath
to not use force or participate in operations against the
(31:40):
people of the United States. Oh where are they now?
They are in they are being hired by ice Y.
These people are you know, they don't care about them
being hypocrites. But Fred, what the fuck with the veterans groups?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, you know, at the risk of being that guy,
I guy, I think I think in the let's let's
start with the pruicial vsos first. You know my favorite,
you know, the VFW American Legion DAL.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
They don't exist, they don't they They're more they've been
cowed into They've been cowed into this fear of not
being at the table, and so they're willing to sell
their souls because well, if I'm not at the table,
you know, and I'm a big believer, you know, sometimes
they're at the table.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
It's because you're the meal. And you know, sometimes it's
just not don't bother being at the table, because there's
no there's no power in being quote at the table.
And that's been a frustration for they're they're they're scared
to death of like even criticizing my God, seeing them
seeing them at fetee and celebrate Doug fucking colins speaking
at their conventions in the last two weeks. I'm like,
we're so honored.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Fuck you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
He's dismantling the VHA, he's fired thirty thousand employees or
forced them out, and you guys are acting like he's awesome. No,
he's a fucking crook. You don't have to kiss his ass.
You don't have to kiss his ass. As far as
the nons, the packs, I don't know. I'm not with
your the organizations anymore, but I love them, you know.
You know, I've got we both got dear friends and
all those organizations, and I think a lot of them,
(33:02):
a lot of them are kind of struggling at the moment,
but they keep get that these things move so quickly
that they're not ready. So it does, and I'm fine.
I mean it leads it to guys like you and
me to raise the right. That's what we started Unit
for Veterans, if you know, I organized you Nighted for
Veterans with a bunch of what all the guys you know,
And we did that protest on the National Mall. And
I knew we did the protest the National Mall and
(33:24):
and it was just it was just six dudes. If
you remember, you will adding Fred Wellman, you know, Chris
Golds with total fucking rant, Joe Plans. I mean, these
are like none of us were part of the large
organizations at that point, and and and the and again
the organizations some of the most of them didn't join us.
It's it is what I've sort of accepted at this
point that a lot of us are kind have to
organize ourselves and use our voices and our power which
(33:46):
we have. Uh and and let's be very honest, I mean,
we had to cut to the chase. Other than like
as you mentioned both bets in common fats and others,
the majority of the wild vsos they're more afraid of
they're members and there the damn at this point, they're
so afraid they're gonna hammhage more. They're so afraid of
being irrelevant because all their MAGA members leave them that
they're they're much more afraid of that of their own
existence at this point. And it goes to how everything's
(34:06):
been politicized in are a society today. There's nothing you
can't do that isn't political. I mean, my god, a
Jean's ad they turned that political, Like who fucking cares.
How is that political? I don't give fuing fuck about
Sidney's when she's great, Who cares she did an ad?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I stood not buying the jeans. I'm a fucking six
year old male. I'm not Why do I have an opinion?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
You know?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
It's like, you know, they want me and that and
then and I'm gonna circle back to the bigger issue
for me. And this is me as a pundit and
as as a politician, frankly, is is to say, the
whole goal is for us to do to fight. The
whole goal is to make us fight each other. They
love the idea that veterans are fucking stabbing and trying
the back over things like this. They love the idea
that veterans are fighting over the dumbest shit imaginable. Uh,
(34:47):
you know, hag sets, you know warrior ethos. You should
see me getting raked on Facebook from these dudes like, man,
we shouldn't have women in the military anyway. Great, you
ever serve that's not the point. Okay you didn't, you
know so? And meanwhile, while the big billionaire bill passes,
people are gonna go more broke. The billionaires are getting richer.
They're fucking laughing their asses all, you know, and so
(35:08):
so I think I think at some point, you know,
I've become a little bit more willing to say, all right,
you guys, just get the fuck out of our way
and let average people do what they got to do,
because the idea of us fighting each other over fucking
everything is good. But these are the priorities, and I
do believe, and I try to tamp down the more
hysterics if you will look, you and I are both
professional military planners, right, Okay, eight hundred National Guardsmen in Washington,
(35:30):
d C. Eight hundred. Think of that number. Do you
know how many national Do you know how many troops
they deployed for the inauguration for Biden after the we
looked it up, twenty eight five hundred troops secure of
the inauguration.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
We should remind people of that.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I do, because they're off like out, but nine of
the long knives there, it's martial law. I'm like, folks, Okay,
eight hundred National Guardsmen and hum v's it's not fucking
martial law. We had we had twenty five thousand Bagdad
plus triple that number in Iraqi security forces. And I
would argue we never had control of Bagdad, right, because
(36:09):
all I know is I'd wake up every Moarn to
a fucking rocket shooting at me from sonder City, where
we had ten thousand troops in an eighteen square block area.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
You know, we had an entire armored division in Sonder City.
Yet every day I'm rolled under my fucking bug because
I'm a goddamn rocket shot, you know. So the idea,
the eight hundred National Guardsmen and a bunch of fat
ass deeages who want nothing to do with patrolling the
National Mall, if you had to look at the girls
running by them, is not Marshall fucking law. It's it's
a jerk off session. It's psychological warforge exactly what you said.
(36:42):
And I was going to bring a point up early.
Where's the where do they decide to rally the National
Guardsmen when they came to DC. Not the airport at
the Pentagon or the park lot the Pentagon, not the airport,
not Union Station park lot. No, they had them rally
on Fourteenth Street in front of the Washington Monument, the
busiest corridor in Washington, DC, see the exit to And
they did it in the afternoon as people are leaving
(37:04):
the city, fleeing frantically to Virginia. These mars Farker's what
a weird thing. Fox News is there already, Isn't that weird? Malcolm, Well,
this is why it's all psychological warfare.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
And I am a huge advocate of counter you know,
counter narrative, count.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Progress program, psychological you know, psychological operations always you know,
fall apart when the enemy has something to say about it,
in this particular instance.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The enemy or the American people. And this is why
I think we need to Well, Los Angeles they did it.
They started as in June deploying these what did they
call them, like National Guard support teams or something, and
they were having like a lawyer, a chaplain, and a
senior enlisted and a veteran who were down there doing
(37:53):
what you said, lecturing them. I think that, you know,
I mean, if if, if, if you guys to get
in on this, I think we get down there with
the bullhorns. Oh, by the way, they did start playing
in the Navy at all of those protests down there
and started getting bullhorns and mocking them in a way
(38:15):
that they would understand it. That guy who dresses like
a chicken or a raccoon. From time to time, Robbie
what's his name, actually kept going up to the soldier goes,
you're laughing. I'm making you laugh. You're laughed on duty.
And he goes, oh, no, look now your buddies are
laughing at you. And I said, this is brilliant to
go down and to surround those vehicles with veterans who
(38:39):
know better, who go, hey, we're handing out new copies
of your Oath of Office or you know, or you're
enlistening oath and spoiling Fox News getting in front of
the White House and veterans. So if you'd like to
organize that, because I think we look, we have Labor
Day coming up. I think it'd be a great time
for a new veterans protest on a larger scale because
(39:02):
the problem, I know what the problem is with your march.
We were in the middle of the No Kings organizing.
We had four weeks to organize the No Kings march
on June fourteenth, And to tell you the truth, I
personally wanted a Veteran's element in Washington, d C. To
counter protest the parade, but everybody said no, no, no,
(39:24):
don't go to d C.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Well, my worry on that, and I'll count of argument
because that's what we do. You and I we if
you guys know me and Malcolm, we butt heads. It's great,
that's what you know. My philosophy was to again the
psychological were for part of it, seeing soldier veterans and
ours protesting the army. How it would be right? We knew, right,
I knew the Fox News and was like, look at
(39:46):
these bastards. They hate the army, and and so I
wanted to avoid the implication that we were there against
the army. So that's why he did it on D
Day instead. But I get you what you're saying too.
I just yeah, well that's spent it.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So as soon as that you said, the d's a vote, right,
they gets a vote. And that's what I was worried about.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
We had we had a national discussion uh on on
of all the major groups move on indivisible, and you know,
we protested it at first, and then when it was explained,
don't be in DC, be in Philadelphia, which is where
I went, which is Marcus Flowers, everybody we know when
and and it was great, it was perfect it was right.
(40:26):
Let Trump have his and it turned out to be
the biggest protesters in DC were the soldiers themselves who
were marked in the parade. But now I think that
it to break their narrative to follow the police around
with you know, or not the police, but to follow
these law enforcement elements around with cameras and people saying,
(40:48):
you know, you have an oath, you swore an oath.
Uh if last night on Fourteenth Street, people finally got
their acts together and they were coming in together in
Unison and started with the get out of our city
chance in the southeast. If I don't know if you
saw the video this morning, my late wife was landscape
(41:11):
architect of Washington, d C. For DC Parks and Red
She was the number three person, remember, and she built
rec centers and playgrounds and skate parks in the southeast
right deliberately in the poorest parts of the city so
that they would have an alternative to crime. And Trump's
(41:32):
thing is like they had that cop down there in
the video yesterday, guys sitting on his front stoop smoking
a cigarette and this guy, you know, they're in the
hsies right, the FBI, and he goes Donald Trump says
Donald Trump is uh, you know, tired of all this crime. Donald.
You know it's it's a crime to smoke, drink out
(41:53):
in public. Donald Trump's tired of it. We need to
get people down there on those bullhorns who go, hey,
you idiots, right, you are supposed to be law enforcement
officers and you are not here to harass the citizens.
You yourself can be individual. Here's something I know they
all don't remember, especially these new ice GUSK because you
(42:17):
know my textbooks are used at Fletsey, the Federal Law
Enforcement Training Center in Glencolle, Georgia. You can be held
individually liable for your actions as a LEO in the
United States government. You can be sued civilly, which is
why they're covering their faces, right. They don't want to
be identified, you know. But what you have to do,
(42:39):
and where they tend to leave is when a crowd
forms and shouts them out. I'm reading a book right
now about the first two years of the French resistance
in the occupation of Paris. The first year it was
passive resistance, and the passive resistance was they flew more
(42:59):
French flags than they had before the occupation. It also
had the disruption factor of not allowing the app there
right German intelligence to figure out who was more patriotic
than the next. Right flags are everywhere. They would also
give flags to people they knew that were collaborators, and
(43:22):
they would sometimes secretly mark their houses with free French
Liberation flags and let the Germans solve the problem for them. Right.
So you know, by the way, this whole occupation of
DC is promised on one thing that that kid big
Balls got his ass beat off of s Street near
(43:44):
the near the Civil African American Civil War Memorial for
my grand great great grandfather and his brother, and was
in an alley at three am in a drinking district,
you know. And no one goes into a freaking alley
off that neighborhood, we don't know whether, or.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
In any town for that matter. I mean, that's that's
what cracks me up. It's like it's common sense went
out the window and suddenly we're you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
But it's really about Trump is doing this because one
white man got his ass beat, right, and and and
use this opportunity as a micro Cristal Knacht right to
come in and do this show of force. I think
if we get more videos out there and people out
there ridiculing them, telling them to leave right making somebody's
(44:36):
got to get that guy down in the raccoon costume
with the FBI body armor on, right or something to
make fun of them. Then they will deflate the optics
of this operation. Uh and and and and and and
That's where I think a lot of the power is
drawn from, because when guys in ames Iowa start seeing
(44:58):
that you know so you and use hearing the words
you are occupying an American city with American troops, you're fascists,
You're Nazis. ICE, as far as I'm concerned, isis is
behind Stott's polit side. Right. They are the state secret police,
the Gestapo, and that's an organization that really needs to
(45:20):
be disbanded in the next administration forever. But ICE going
out there is a US military paramilitary force being used
against US civilians and we need to take the energy
away from them.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I agree, I agree, I think that's and but also
be honest, break them around. I hate to say it,
but break them and and look the Quinting signed up
before truck right DEA agents to not join the DEA,
even even patriots.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
There are patriots that join you and I know them,
and and they join it because they want to break
the cartels. They've seen the danger of Fennel, they've seen
the impact on small town of the fentanyl and the
meth crisis. They joined, as they really do, join to
serve their country in a certain way. I'm fine with that.
They didn't join to be in body armor wandering the
fuck down that yeah, right on the on to intimidate people.
(46:13):
That's not what they signed up for. They're being taken
away for BI agents. Yeah, and agents of the BI
agents patrolling the street. Look you the funniest thing about
the FBI agent again, another example how Donald Trump doesn't
understand the government runs you and I know this. Seventy
five percent of FBI agents are more didn't even come
from law enforcements. They're fucking accountants. They're lawyers.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
They're not they're not they're not.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
That's why they're hired financial crime, bookkeeping. I mean, they're
not tough guy law enforcement. He thinks of the ultimate
what the g men? The g men you know are gon,
We're gonna show you with my Tommy guy Like fuck, dude,
that's not who FBI is there. The biggest, the biggest
nerves I know are FBI agents. He's got them wandering
around downtown d C. So so these men and women
(47:00):
don't want to fucking be there. They don't, So let's let's,
you know, honestly make their lives missile because again there
are fellow Americans and the ones who want to be there.
We're going to fucking shame them, but let's remind them
that this isn't what they signed up for. And then
and forget return and the other thing. The final thing
I'll mentioned, because I do have to go I apologize
is is the National Guard. My son in laws and
National guardsmen in Virginia. I talked to him when this
thing happened. He says, Dad were stretched thin. They've got
(47:23):
their normal deployment rotation like the NTC and the Jaarity
see summer where they just had their summer rotations. Now
they're being sent to do these kind of stupid ship
stand aboard. The governor of Virginia sent a bunch of
them in the fucking border to do seriously, do nothing
but masturbait and fucking sit in the desert, you know,
And and they're warned the fuck out. They're destroying morale,
they're destroying retention. And you notice that motherfucker Pete Hexath,
(47:46):
you talked about all the time how they made their
recruiting goal, made the recruital you know, Joe Biden. But
the other thing they don't talk about, Malcolm. Look the
thing about this administrations, you guys are they don't talk about.
They don't talk about retention. I've been I've been bad
in the drum bullshit. You tell me what the retention
numbers are. Because the real gauge, the real canary in
the fucking coal mine on the military's health and strength
(48:08):
is not recruiting, is fucking retention, because that's when people
vote with their feet, and they're not saying a fucking word, Malcolm.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
At the four year and eight year.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Mark, exactly, the people who walk out, they're not gonna
make retirement anyways. They're making that.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
I think the real canary in the coal mine is
guys like me who got out the first time at
thirteen years. They're in the window for it, and they're
saying fuck right before twelve or at that means you're done.
You hate the military, And they're not reporting tho numbers.
It's the same thing with VA. He keeps talking about
how the benefits claim weight time has gone down. Now
what's going down already he hopped on a fucking slede.
(48:45):
There was already halfway down the mountain. But the thing
he never talks about healthcare waight times. He never talks
about how long it tastes get out patient surgery. He
never talks about how long it tastes to see a
psychologists more. Because we know now from the IG report,
we know from the Guardian racle, we know for Leake
docins pro Publica got that that wait times for actual
health care are fucking skyrocketing, and that is the cover up.
(49:06):
So for me, I've learned quickly in six months it's
not they fucking talk about, it's what they don't talk about.
And this administration is a covering up some really scary shit.
But you know who's gonna pay the price once again, dude,
that look like you and me and our kids. Because
the military is a family fucking business. And as I mentioned,
my sons of my son's a veteran, my my future
(49:26):
son in law is a veteran, My son in law
is a fucking so out of the four kids that
I've got, three out of four are involved with military
members or veterans. Right, Okay, you and I are veterans.
My dad was a better We're gonna pay for this bullshit,
not them, So I think we're gonna keep holding these
people accountable. That's all we can do.
Speaker 5 (49:43):
So, by the way, in my grand complete ran off,
all right, be prepared.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
To deploy that rant at any time.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
There you go, I'm stand by.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
In one sentence so we can end this show. Give
me your assessment of what's going to happen in Alaska.
Are we going to surrender Alaska to Russia? Or what's
going to happen?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Probably a complete fucking trainer. My friend Alex Vimman says
it better because he's a lot smarter than both of us,
and Alex Alex is extremely concerned losing sleep over the
fact that there's no plan we're going. Look, you know
you've been involved diplomacy even remotely, like you've been security.
But I've been in diplomac myself, and there's months of
diplomatic relations that go into preparing for a summit. It
takes sometimes a year to get a summit. You come in,
(50:25):
there's agreed upon things. Where you go to the room.
That's where that that's where the biggergreements come from. They've
already been written. They're just signing them when they get there.
You have a plan, you've got you've already laid out parameters,
You've talked your allies at NATO and Ukraine. You're going
there prepared. No Trump says, hey, let's meet Friday. Well,
let's meet Friday, lad and they're gonna go to fucking Alaska. Sorry, Russia,
if you talk to Trump and they're gonna talk about whatever.
(50:47):
This is Putin's fucking wet dreams. Putin's manipulating presence for
twenty five fucking years. He'd manipulated Trump once already. He
is freaking creaming himself because he knows he's gonna fucking
make Trump look like a jackass. And Trump's gonna do
it with no staff and know a damn thing about diplomacy.
It's gonna be a train wreck. I wouldn't be surprised
he gives away Kiev. Well, the guy's an idiot, the
(51:08):
guy's a fool. He's gonna make NATO and US look bad.
He's gonna hurt our national security. And it's gonna be
either the worst case best case scenario, it's it's just
a fucking mess. Nothing happens. Worst case scenario is Trump
does Trump and then I don't know, man. But that's
not just one sentence, obviously, but I recommend reading my
friend Alex Vinman. He's got a substack. He's done several
(51:30):
pieces on this. Alex has got a very good substack.
I'd definitely look up.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
All right, Well, thank you for coming on black Man's
spy fond to put the veteran had on one and
to talk. Frankly, I think most civilians don't understand us.
They don't, you know, and they need to understand the
parameters of this. If things get out of hand, that's
when you're gonna see your breakdown in military order. But
let's save that for ten years from now. I hope
(51:57):
to god it doesn't happen. And thank you, thank you
Fred for coming on. I'll be more than willing to
come on with you anytime.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I love it out on democracy every Friday night, and
got up to the club for I Levia every fridaynight.
The my is touching up. We still have ontomoxy f P. Wellman,
I'm talking our friend Patrick Murphy this Friday. I've got
a conressor Greg Lansman next week. I love Greg Lansman.
Just came out with a really great like agenda for
Democrats to follow and win back the American people.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
That's every Friday night they're running. It is alive now
on on mind Stuck network every Friday night at seven Eastern.
And of course we've got some interviews I'm doing with
a representatives running, people running for office, and you know,
and I'm every I'm f P Wellman everywhere of course
substack FP woman about substack dot com. So I hope
some of your fans of followers, which you have.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
A lot, Oh, we'll get you a follow. Everybody follow Fred.
He's all right, cool, all.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Right, brother, thanks for talking to you.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
By now. You know, I'm glad this episode we can
inform you if you are not a veteran of how
we think and what we feel about what's going on
in Washington, d C. It may be less than it looks,
but the problem is Trump is increasing his rhetoric and
(53:06):
deployment of people in terms of using the National Guard
and military forces around the United States. But I hope
this conversation with Fred gave you an idea that the
average soldier does not one like this or to support this.
It is hurting their families, it is hurting their real
operations tempo for going to real wars and real emergencies
(53:28):
that confront the American public. And with that, thank you
for viewing another episode of black Man's Spy. Be sure
to follow me on Apple, Stitcher YouTube at black Man's
Spy Podcast on substack at Malcolm Nance dot substack dot com.
That's where I do all of my deep writing, my
(53:48):
live events, and answer your questions. If you become a
paid subscriber. We have special paid subscriber Q and a's
you can just come right up and ask me whatever
is on your mind or even ask for advice. Those
are what we do there. You can find me on
TikTok at a real Malcolm Nance and on I'm still
on Twitter slash x where I'm using the platform to
(54:11):
harass the vet bro neo Nazi right wing crazies, and
that is Malcolm Nance at Malcolm Nance dot I'm sorry
it's not Twitter anymore, right at Malcolm Nance on x
dot com. I'm on Blue Sky at Malcolm Nance dot
b s k y dot com, thank you again and
(54:33):
as I like to say, next week, see you on
the beach.
Only veterans know how to defuse veterans, and I think
this situation we have in Washington right now, we're seeing
the people start to hit the street. Last time I
saw the National Guard in Washington, DC and real strength
was on the evening of nine to eleven, and I
was very happy to see the National Guard next to
(00:20):
the DC police. This is a military occupation of the city.
They are trying to intimidate the black population, which is
now forty four percent. The rest of them are white
liberals in that city. There are very few conservatives. This
occupation of the city is going to get bad.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But I think the city assault the subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That was on U Street Corridor,
which is a drinking party street at night. And now
Janine Piro goes, I don't stop talking about how there's
no crime. There is no crime in Adams Morgan. There
is no crime in freaking Georgetown.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
On M Street for the National Mall. Did you see
the picture See the picture of the National guardsman on
the Lincoln Memorial. Did you know in twenty twenty five
there's been exactly zero recorded crime. I'm the National Mall,
but that's where the the National and do you think
it's a fucking points as, Malcolm, do you think it's
a fucking coincidence? This is a psychological operation exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
This is black Man's Spy. Hi, I'm Malcolm Nance and
welcome to this special veteran filled episode of Black Man's Spy.
I'm joined today by Fred Wellman. Fred is a decorated
Army combat veteran, political strategist and media hosts with more
(01:50):
than twenty two years of military service, including four combat
tours as a helicopter pilot, operations officer, public affairs officer.
After his military career, he became a leading advocate for
veterans and military families Don't I Know It, founding the
acclaimed public relations firm Scout Comms, and later rising to
national prominence as senior advisor and executive director of this
(02:14):
small group you may never have heard of, the Lincoln Project,
where he coordinated veteran national security affairs against authoritarianism and
played a key role in political messaging. Fred has also
served as a senior advisor and consultants and democratic campaigns
political action committees. Host the On Democracy with Fred Wellman
or f P. Wellman podcast on the mightas Touched Network
(02:36):
and holds degrees from a as a graduate of the
US Army Military Academy at West Point and the Harvard
Kennedy School. Fred Wellman is welcome to black Man's Spy.
This is going to be a great episode. Well, Fred Wellman,
thanks for coming on The black Man's Spy. It's been
a long time coming. You know, I love seeing you.
(02:58):
I love running into you when we're around doing veterans' activities.
And there's no greater veteran advocate I think in social
media influencers than you right now, and you're you're as
and as I understand it, we already did your introduction.
You're with the might as Touch network these days, I am,
And yeah, that's great. I can tell you have a studio,
(03:21):
you know, I have to use whatever Ramada in or
you know, when I'm traveling all around or my house
which is being renovated right now, which is why we're there.
But you know, usually on this show we try to
have a good time and lighten up some of the
more difficult subjects. Unfortunately, for my last five interviews, there
(03:43):
has been no way to have a decent joke. And
I know, you know, I'm wearing my navy hat for
you today because which is a joke in the start,
I tell you, well, the I'm wearing my navy hat
because you're an old army guy. And as two veterans,
two combat veterans who have been around quite a bit,
(04:05):
we have a very very different perspective on the world
and the way that democracy is going right now, our
geopolitical position in the world being compromised. I think that
we should get We could give the audience something they
don't usually see. I mean most of the pundits who
(04:26):
are out there that they see on mainstream cable, they
really insist on only speaking to generals. I just don't
understand that, you know, and considering you know, as I
read in your bio, you actually out rank and out
experienced Pete hegsith over at the endegot because you said,
you run what three platoons, right, yeah, he said one,
(04:52):
two company commands.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know, I mean I wasn't EXO and an S
three of the battalion, but you know, I never commended
to the time level. But yeah, it's you know, and
they gave the largest government organization in the largest military.
It's uh, the guys playing out exactly like we thought
it would. I mean, that's I hate being right sometimes.
I mean, He's be honest. I love being right, but
I hate being right about this.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Well, I think the most pressing subject to discuss today
is not the Trump Putin Summit. We'll get around to that.
Even though you know, as a you know, as an
old Ukraine hand, I really like to talk about these things,
but it's it doesn't even rank when you consider the
militarization of the United States that's going on right now.
(05:33):
First starting with Los Angeles. Well, actually, to be quite honest,
it started with is wanting the Great Trump Parade and
that parade which turned out to be an absolute flop.
You know, soldiers not even marching marching in route step
which I mean, as I recall because I trained Ukrainian soldiers,
(05:56):
that's for marching information over uneven land and in terrain
which is which is rocky. And it's like, last time
I looked Independence Avenue.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Was it was amazing. It was amazing. But Malcolm, my
favorite part, you know, Trump on to look all tough
and hangs out, you know, his new warrior. But my
favorite part there's a there's a video and there's a
picture out there of one of this. I think it
was a striker. I'm not sure, but it's an armored
vehicle some kind of passing in front of the of
the breadstand and the soldier the hatch is doing this
(06:28):
the heart sign. Dude. It was a dude. This dude's
that hey, we love you. And Trump looks back and
literally ate a fucking you know, like a like a
you know, a possum. You know. I was like, this
is the best day ever I.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Know where well you know what, only you know, only
military people can understand the subtilities of.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That big f you right, It's all the saft and
it was this universe. Even even the Maga magas like, wow,
they're like telling it the fuck off, but yes, that
is what they're By the way, can we cost this podcast?
I don't know if it's g of course, yeah, I
wouldn't if you thought there was no costing, but it
is just it's fucking It was amazing. It was the
most amazing cluster f I've ever seen, and I loved it.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Man. It was my two my favorite moments of the
failed Trump Parade were one one of the m one
cruise was doing the Queen Elizabeth Wave from the risk. Yes, yes,
you can tell.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well, we are soldiers, right, we are what we do
expect we will fuck you immediately in the way job
that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
They put them in empty buildings, they managed ship. They
had to flip flop outside of the building to take
a ship and shower.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They took them away with their families on on a
holiday weekend. Uh and said, yeah, here entertained this fucker's ego.
Of course. You know, I kept telling people all along, Look,
it's an honor to march president. It is not okay
in some cases it is, but if you funk with
their lives, honored the president. You know, look, I did
one of my greatest things I did the mil Nichin said,
one of the one of the funnest things I did
(08:05):
the military. I was of Hawaii is a young company commander.
I had a Cobra H one cobra helicover company. Why
in nineteen ninety eight whatever year and had to be
ninety five, and it was the anniversary of Pearl Harbor,
and they had a huge the President Clinton and Missus
Clint came over, had a huge joint force parade at
(08:27):
wheeler Field up there in the parade Field wheeler Field
retchword ware Station, and stupidly they gave me command of
the flyover. I was the aero commander forever. It was
the coolest thing ever, and I remember but this is
why we didn't hate it, because they brought all these
World War II aircraft over on an aircraft carrier in America.
And so as part of that, we did a training
exercise where my Cobra company played out for as Landforce
(08:48):
is attacking aircraft carry right, so we got training out.
They actually integrated training into the parade. Man, it was
really cool, and my soldiers all got like Kamakazi Japanese
head bands for our helmets. It was amazing because again
soldiers always find a way, right, you get it, you know,
you know, we're like we did the pictures like the
Japanese and it was fucking hilarious. And needs said, we
(09:10):
got waxed, and we got virtually waxed. And you know,
a bunch of helicopters ty to attack an aircraft character
you know what you do, You're you're sailor. We got
waxed and then we did an overflight. It was the
coolest thing ever and then for the flyover, dude, it
was so funny. We're like, well, how low can we
go because you know, they want you to go real
high because the presidential security and we kept arguing over
because we don't, you know, it would look terrible. Helicopters
going ninety knots is really slow at a thousand feet,
(09:34):
you know, it's like and here they come. They come,
and we're like, we're combat aaviors. Now we want to
we want to fucking come in.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I talked to the Secret Service guy. I said, I said, look,
how it's gonna look like ship if we don't go low.
And the producer was there, he goes, well, I need
you in the shot. I'm like, you'll look at the
Secret Service guy. He's like, look, man, I don't have
a radar timeat now we're talking to Davy. So Malcolm
I brought. We came in. We fucking came in. We
(10:07):
had yeah, dude, yeah, we had to pop up over
the fucking palm trees on Yeah. That's I think they
were like surprise, like we came in. It was anyway,
that's a war story. That's not your worst.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
But the other part of that parade that I thought
was screaming laughable. Was there these reconnaissance platoons that they
have and the guy holding the drone in his head
walking and marching, and it was you can almost hear them,
whatever you do, don't fly the drone. So this guy's like, Okay,
(10:45):
fuck it, here's what I'll do. I will take drony
mcdrone fix in my hand and I will march with
the drone over my head. And the senior austers are like,
that's awesome, you know that really good this guy is.
And I said it as I saw it. I tweeted
it and I said, tomorrow morning, this will be the
(11:07):
most hated soldier on Earth. For every Army ridicule this guy.
And it was absolutely a disaster of a parade, not
just And when I saw the parade, I wasn't sure
of what the date was because I was traveling. I
(11:28):
was in France, and I saw the parade and I said, oh,
this is the dress rehearsal the day before, because they're in,
they're in, they're ocpbdus right, and they're just uh, you know,
march walking along, not marching walking along. So then somebody goes, no,
(11:51):
this is the parade, and I go, they're not in
their class as, they're not in picking grounds, they're not
in their service dress, unifor.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Have you ever have you ever been in one of
those parades, Mouthy, ever done one of those big dogg
and pony parades, Because I've done something I've seen.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I've been to a divisional change of command and everyone
it's an inspection as well as a brigade you know,
multi brigade parade and they're fucking serious.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
No, but I'll tell you what happened.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I tell you what.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So I've been in these victory but we did a
victory parade after Desert storm, the.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Desert Storm Parade in Dallas, and it was yeah, but
if you remember, but I'll tell you what, Malcolm, remember this.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Nobody remembers that the buildings echo. Okay, so nobody. So
even in rehearsal, you go down there and you've got
what you know, you can hear the guy. Usually somebody
somebody breaks into a uh, you know, a cadence, like
a light cadence, so we all get in stepped. Nobody
remembers you have to have marching fucking music, mean drummers.
(12:58):
If you look at the parade. Now, I because I
actually had somebody ask me at this and I looked
at it closely. They didn't do marching music. They were playing,
if you remember, they were playing like regular music, all
this bullshit music, right, right. And so you've got soldiers
who come into this echo chamber, right, and they probably
want to look good. I'm not gonna say they didn't,
(13:18):
but but the music's echoing. It's not marching music. The
music's loud enough and echoing enough that even if somebody
in the formation finally just said well, right right, nobody
could hear them. So there was never a chance. So
even they you see what I'm saying. So I'm actually
convinced they tried to like be out of step. But
none of these dumb fucks who threw this thing together
knew a fucking thing about parades. And you can't play
(13:40):
proud to be an American while you're trying to fucking march, right,
And so I mean, they have the whole fucking Old
Guard Fife and Drome there. If they just parked those
guys there and done, you know, done a rhythm mar.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, yes, they would have all synced up.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
They would have been synced up right before he got
there right got camera view that would have marched through,
but no, I had to had to play that music.
And it was a big and again it's because of
such a fucking clown show run by a clown ass
bunch of guys who just wanted to jerk off Trump.
It came out looking like a you know, like a
like a jerk of a certain show. You know, it's like,
(14:19):
you know, it's it's that baby.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I mean, they're even the aviation element of it was
a ship show because these guys were clearly flying about
five thousand feet a g l and like, and.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
They had to. They had this giant separation between elements.
So it'd be're like, now I go to best Steel
Day in France, and here's here's how first off is started.
By the way, yeah, that steel day is a passing review.
It is. It's a passing review. Of course. The President
(14:53):
of France and the commander of the Armed Forces go
by in the Dougall mobile, right and the giant jeep,
and then the passing review is passed for is where
the elements all step. They're actually along the chan delys
information and then they step into the road and go
(15:14):
down the chan delis information. Here's an interesting fact that
you just enunciated that we didn't do. They have speakers
every ten or fifteen meters with re simultaneous music which
is play and it's the exact same music that they
play every year, and it ain't rock and roll. It
(15:36):
is the march for Bastille Day, right, and they march
down in insanely perfect unison. I was there a couple
of years ago, and my favorite part of that was
the Navy. The French Navy always has a Navy liaison
officer and he always marches in the front four remember,
(15:59):
right of the elements. And the year Trump went, Oh
my god, the disgrace of this. The year Trump went.
The thing that impressed Trump he had never seen Bastille Day.
That and as an honor to the one hundredth anniversary
of US forces entering World War One, the entire fucking
(16:21):
parade was led by a six man World War One
dressed US Army color guard. And when I saw it on,
I was so proud to see that, right that the
US Army was given the ardor of leading the entire victory.
You know, you know Liberation Day parade, And I guess
(16:44):
the two black guys in the formation was what piss
Trump off. He didn't stand up to salute. They stood up,
and he didn't salute the US Army leading the entirety
of the French armed forces on Bastille.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It goes, and it goes to a larger issue, Malcolm,
is that Trump. Trump has never understood our norms and
our traditions. He's never just through a culture. He's always
had this very surface level understanding. And that's why he
wanted to He thinks we're supposed to look like tough guys.
The fact that he doesn't understand the US soldier goes
right to that parade. He doesn't understand it. We're not
We're not those guys. We're not gonna look to it.
(17:20):
And by the way, Joe and yeah, and Malcolm, you
could draw I did this, and I did a live
yesterday for my substack. You could draw a straight line
from what you just talked about him not understanding to
stand for the flag in France and for the World
War One memorial to a straight line to what's happening
in DC. Okay, because he thinks he thinks that we're
tough guys, we're gonna like like you know, Night and
(17:43):
Along not that were his his shock groups. And that's
not who the American soldier is. That's not who the
American military is. It's not who the volunteer military is.
Where he likes it or not, we're just not his
personal military. For us, we're America's sons and daughters, and
we were raised for eighteen years with certain values and
traditions long before the army or the Navy, or the
Marines or space fucking force ever got hold of us.
(18:04):
And Donald Trump will never understand that about the American
Volunteer Force because he thinks he just doesn't get it.
He watches fucking movies. He talks to Jackovs like you
know Pete, Hegseth, and he thinks he knows us. And
these the cultural mistakes he constantly makes is thinking that
we'd be honored to march for the commandergy on his
fucking birthday. You know you're right, but still day know
(18:27):
why they march. It's but Steel Day. It's their biggest holiday,
it's their liberation Day. It's been a tradition for hundreds
of years. It's not just something that Prence said all
on a birthday on the Army birthday, what coincident. It's
the same shit and it always goes to in somuch
and frankly, in a lot of ways is saving us,
I think, because the lack of understanding of our own
culture to include this idiot secretary of Defense is probably
(18:48):
saving us from worse things happening because these jackofs think,
oh the problems we're not screaming on them in basion
training them were No, No, the problem is we're not
fucking fascist, you know, you know, it's like you know.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I came in the military, was at late nineteen eighty
you know, went on full active duty in nineteen eighty one.
The Stars and Stripes newspaper, which by the way, Trump
tried to kill in his first term, Stars and Stripe
was published in you know, in World War Two it
(19:20):
became the daily newspaper of the United States Armed Forces.
You can get it on every military base. When you
entered the chow hall, their stars and stripes, every commissary,
every PX, Stars and stripes is there. And you know,
back when I started, they would still put Willie and
Joe the two World War two slackass what they call
(19:44):
professional hobos with rifles who fought in World War Two.
They were still recycling those cartoons, remember too, and you know,
along with Beatle Bailey, Sad Sack, you know, and and
some of these other you know, mocking character and worse,
(20:04):
the most subversive cartoon that you could ever put into
a US military newspaper, which is Calvin and Hobbes. No,
you just won't win. And every person, millions upon millions
upon millions of veterans, you know, understood that. You know,
Willie and Joe were. They're there to do a job,
(20:27):
and that job involved killing Germans and slacking off and
finding coffee and something to eat, or you know, wearing
a top hat into combat. They were irreverent, but they
did their job and they wanted to go home. That's
g I Joe, not a character from the comic books.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Okay, hely arm tours. I had a blog called the
Heavily because you know, you get it, you know you
every time I tell combat veteran, they go, yep, you
know I you know joke. We're always like, this is awesome.
Let's get a picture.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Always remember that.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You remember that famous picture when the third Idea arrived
and bag down. They're fighting their way across the bridge, right,
they're all, you know, And for the life of I'm
positive that right before that too, of the boys like
dude Selfie, like me, you know, because that's where we were, right.
I've got pictures from Deji's storm, like in the middle combat,
like me and my commander are posing in the hats
(21:23):
of an Iraqi tank, you know, doing the whole which way,
you know, But that's who we are because you know why,
because we're risking our fucking lives. And if you don't
have a dark sense of humor, if you don't have
an understanding and that what you're doing is different and dangerous,
and you know you're not able to laugh at that situation,
it will ruin you. And that's what's wrong with every
fucking war movie ever. That which is how Trump and frankly,
(21:45):
in my heart head seth know the military is. They
think it's all special operators, the silent professionals kicking down doors.
Like no, most of us are just clowns who signed
up because we love our country. Maybe one free college
and maybe I want to get out of my shitty hometown.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
The reasons you join are long, and then you get
in and maybe you love it, You're like, like, fuck, dude.
I used to joke, Malcolm. You know, I went to
West Point somehow, and I used to joke that I
hated so much. I planned to quit after every semester,
and then I ended up graduating by accident. I just
ran out of time to quit, like, well, fuck, I'm
in now, you know, I guess I'll say. And then
then but I got to do cool things. I jumped
(22:21):
out of airplane. I helicopters. I didn't actually jumped on
airplanes until I was older. But you know, I got
to fucking I went to jungle school. I prayed, I
crashed through the jungle, you know, shooting shit. I repelled
at helicopters. I flew helicopters. I got to go to
the Pyramids. I got to go to you know, all
these amazing places. Germany, drinking drinking beer at one in
(22:41):
the morning in a Bavarian guest house that had just opened.
It was at three hundred year old mill. We had
to find it in a snowstorm, and the lady the
house frau insisted we sit. None of us, spoke German,
and three of US staff officers, the third US Army
were there for a meeting right near Howenfels, and we're
just sitting there, you know, right, and we're just sitting there,
drinking a beer in this three hundred year old mill,
(23:03):
kind of trying to communicate. And I remember my seeing myself.
I remember, I'm a kid from Missouri and I'm sitting
in this gorgeous historic, you know building in Germany. This
is this is amazing. And so that's who we are.
And people like Trump and people like heg Seth and
people like others outsiders don't get that a lot of
(23:23):
us are just kids from so I know you, I
know your background. We were a kid from somewhere and
you know who wanted to be somewhere else probably, and
we fucking ended up doing really cool shit, you know.
I remember, I remember that that first battle of when
we flew into Desih Shield. I'm twenty five years old
from Kirkwood, Missouri, which is by the way, five miles
from sitting now, And I remember we crossed the border
(23:44):
and Malcolm, there was six columns of vehicles streaming into
southern Iraq and it was a clear day and as
far as I could see, there's just dust clouds of
vehicles going, I mean rankneck. If you saw it, you
wouldn't believe. It was like mad fucking Max and mean
shit strap all the vehicles, We're just like, get there, right, get.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Them, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
And I come flying in at the head of a
company of apaches, me and my three scouts. I got
six fucking apaches armed their fucking teeth, barely got off
the ground. And I'm thinking, how fucking cool is that?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
You know?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I mean, I'm like, you know what I mean, It's like,
oh my god, you know, I'm in war. I'm in
a fucking war, and this is amazing. And that is
probably what you said the first time you heard a
bullet obaya it is. It is not this fantasy of
yeah Roger two five two five move more than like,
holy fuck, was that a bullet?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Bombs, guns and helicopter rides. That's people, you know, It's
like the military. That's the fun stuff. You know. When
people say thank you for your service, I always say
thank my mom, thank my wife, my ya had seven
of us in at one time.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And Jesus man, holy shit.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now, so here's our National Guard soldiers or in Los
Angeles Marine.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah we didn't.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
We but I just want to I just want to.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Off came right now, going, can you guys talk about
what we fucking wrote down to talk about.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
This is It's important that you understand the mindset those
marines in Los Angeles. And I said, very early on
we had a a resistance organization meeting about this is.
You know, I wrote a political action committee now called
FH Vote Back Right, which stands for Focused Action, Focused
(25:32):
Action with Focused Objectives PAT. All right, So we don't
do nothing. We don't do anything in the resistance unless
it has a quantifiable result, all right. And one of
the things that we did when we were on the
Influencer's uh chat is I said, and I actually tweeted
this out. I don't care who you are, someone get
down to where the Marines are or the National Guard
(25:55):
are right now and start blaring out the village people
in the navy right, and it will have two effects.
One they will fucking hate it. Two they will start
losing their demeanor right and they will start laughing, and
(26:15):
then they'll start bopping. What you don't know is when
they get inside after doing a two hour stint of
standing out in front of you, this is the joke
that is ripping through the barracks, right, they played in
the Navy for US two Marines. You know, only veterans
(26:36):
know how to defuse veterans. And I think this situation
we have in Washington right now, we're seeing the people
start to hit the street. Last time I saw the
National Guard in Washington, DC and real strength was on
the evening of nine to eleven, and I was very
happy to see the National Guard next to the DC police.
(26:57):
This is a military occupation of the city. They are
trying to intimidate the black population, which is now forty
four percent. The rest of them are white liberals. Yeah,
in that city, there are very few conservatives. Conservatives live
out in Chantilly or you know, out in northern Virginia.
They don't even live in Maryland. And this occupation of
(27:19):
the city is going to get bad.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But I think you see the assault of the sub
subway Sandwich.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was on U Street corridor, which
is a drinking party street at night. And now Janine
Piro goes, I don't stop talking about how there's no crime.
There is no crime in Morgan. There is no crime
in freaking Georgetown. On M Street for.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
The National Mall, the National Mall. Did you see the
picture see the picture of the National guardsman on the
Lincoln Memorial. Did you know in twenty twenty five there's
been exactly zero recorded crime on the National Mall. But
that's what they DePoy, the National And do you think
it's a fucking coincids, Malcolm, Do you think it's a
fucking cou This is a psychological operation exactly Joe video.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
It's designed for Joe Rube. Okay, who's living out in
you know, Who's who's who's out in Courtelaine, Iowa, you know,
or Idaho or some other place out in the west.
Who thinks this is what the military is doing. We're
taking the city back by force. We're using our soldiers
who we actually don't care that Trump's a five time
(28:28):
draft dodger. This is ridiculous. So I had proposed that,
you know, I think we when we talked last time,
I talked to vote vets and some other elements and said, look,
you gotta get some vets down there with bullhorns. I
happen to have five bullhorns that aren't being used right
now in my house. Brand News still in the box.
And we got to go down there and what we
(28:49):
need to do is we need to lecture them. I
call it, give them the senior chief, Sergeant major talk right,
which is which.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Is over and over? Yes, Conscious States America from all.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
But you come out, you go attention all hands right,
blade hand of course you're gonna do that. This is
Sergeant Major blah blah blah. This is Master Chief, Senior
Chief Chief blah blah blah. We are here to recalibrate
your deployment. Number one, every one of you is subject
to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Your presence here,
(29:27):
in fact, may be illegal, and that is being adjudicated
in the courts. Number two, you are not authorized to
get to obey unlawful orders using force, injuring people, killing
people with your weapons systems. You individually can be court
martialed and tried for murder if you do that. And
(29:50):
just like you said, replay the code of conduct right,
the fighting you know, the American fighting man's code. And
when you get to the part of I am assault
you who serves in the forces of my country. I
am here. I'm willing to give my lives in their defense.
You go not in Washington D Street in Georgetown, right,
and you recalibrate what the laws that they have been
(30:14):
told that have put them where they are. So anyone
who's a veteran right now who goes this was a
very good idea. And I live within the Washington, DC
tried state area, feel free to grab your bullhorn and
just get down there. My question to you, Fred is
where the fuck is vote vets in common defense? Why
do we have these guys no offense to you know,
(30:36):
you know, to Amisha and you know and and these
other guys. But there is a time to try to
be the cooling saucer, common sense think tank that doesn't
want to get you know, you know that will be
ready their statements. I said this to national security leaders
from America as well. Yeah, and then there's a time
(30:56):
to get your ass out on the streets with your
banners and say vote vets is here. We are down
here in DC and we are playing the code of conduct.
We are playing the you know, we are reading the
oath of office. Fucking oath Keepers. Stuart Rhodes now doctor,
(31:18):
now identified terrorist group in Canada. The oath Keepers were
founded on this sentence. They are officers, police and military
and veterans who will not use who swear an oath
to not use force or participate in operations against the
(31:40):
people of the United States. Oh where are they now?
They are in they are being hired by ice Y.
These people are you know, they don't care about them
being hypocrites. But Fred, what the fuck with the veterans groups?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, you know, at the risk of being that guy,
I guy, I think I think in the let's let's
start with the pruicial vsos first. You know my favorite,
you know, the VFW American Legion DAL.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
They don't exist, they don't they They're more they've been
cowed into They've been cowed into this fear of not
being at the table, and so they're willing to sell
their souls because well, if I'm not at the table,
you know, and I'm a big believer, you know, sometimes
they're at the table.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
It's because you're the meal. And you know, sometimes it's
just not don't bother being at the table, because there's
no there's no power in being quote at the table.
And that's been a frustration for they're they're they're scared
to death of like even criticizing my God, seeing them
seeing them at fetee and celebrate Doug fucking colins speaking
at their conventions in the last two weeks. I'm like,
we're so honored.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Fuck you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
He's dismantling the VHA, he's fired thirty thousand employees or
forced them out, and you guys are acting like he's awesome. No,
he's a fucking crook. You don't have to kiss his ass.
You don't have to kiss his ass. As far as
the nons, the packs, I don't know. I'm not with
your the organizations anymore, but I love them, you know.
You know, I've got we both got dear friends and
all those organizations, and I think a lot of them,
(33:02):
a lot of them are kind of struggling at the moment,
but they keep get that these things move so quickly
that they're not ready. So it does, and I'm fine.
I mean it leads it to guys like you and
me to raise the right. That's what we started Unit
for Veterans, if you know, I organized you Nighted for
Veterans with a bunch of what all the guys you know,
And we did that protest on the National Mall. And
I knew we did the protest the National Mall and
(33:24):
and it was just it was just six dudes. If
you remember, you will adding Fred Wellman, you know, Chris
Golds with total fucking rant, Joe Plans. I mean, these
are like none of us were part of the large
organizations at that point, and and and the and again
the organizations some of the most of them didn't join us.
It's it is what I've sort of accepted at this
point that a lot of us are kind have to
organize ourselves and use our voices and our power which
(33:46):
we have. Uh and and let's be very honest, I mean,
we had to cut to the chase. Other than like
as you mentioned both bets in common fats and others,
the majority of the wild vsos they're more afraid of
they're members and there the damn at this point, they're
so afraid they're gonna hammhage more. They're so afraid of
being irrelevant because all their MAGA members leave them that
they're they're much more afraid of that of their own
existence at this point. And it goes to how everything's
(34:06):
been politicized in are a society today. There's nothing you
can't do that isn't political. I mean, my god, a
Jean's ad they turned that political, Like who fucking cares.
How is that political? I don't give fuing fuck about
Sidney's when she's great, Who cares she did an ad?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I stood not buying the jeans. I'm a fucking six
year old male. I'm not Why do I have an opinion?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
You know?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
It's like, you know, they want me and that and
then and I'm gonna circle back to the bigger issue
for me. And this is me as a pundit and
as as a politician, frankly, is is to say, the
whole goal is for us to do to fight. The
whole goal is to make us fight each other. They
love the idea that veterans are fucking stabbing and trying
the back over things like this. They love the idea
that veterans are fighting over the dumbest shit imaginable. Uh,
(34:47):
you know, hag sets, you know warrior ethos. You should
see me getting raked on Facebook from these dudes like, man,
we shouldn't have women in the military anyway. Great, you
ever serve that's not the point. Okay you didn't, you
know so? And meanwhile, while the big billionaire bill passes,
people are gonna go more broke. The billionaires are getting richer.
They're fucking laughing their asses all, you know, and so
(35:08):
so I think I think at some point, you know,
I've become a little bit more willing to say, all right,
you guys, just get the fuck out of our way
and let average people do what they got to do,
because the idea of us fighting each other over fucking
everything is good. But these are the priorities, and I
do believe, and I try to tamp down the more
hysterics if you will look, you and I are both
professional military planners, right, Okay, eight hundred National Guardsmen in Washington,
(35:30):
d C. Eight hundred. Think of that number. Do you
know how many national Do you know how many troops
they deployed for the inauguration for Biden after the we
looked it up, twenty eight five hundred troops secure of
the inauguration.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
We should remind people of that.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I do, because they're off like out, but nine of
the long knives there, it's martial law. I'm like, folks, Okay,
eight hundred National Guardsmen and hum v's it's not fucking
martial law. We had we had twenty five thousand Bagdad
plus triple that number in Iraqi security forces. And I
would argue we never had control of Bagdad, right, because
(36:09):
all I know is I'd wake up every Moarn to
a fucking rocket shooting at me from sonder City, where
we had ten thousand troops in an eighteen square block area.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
You know, we had an entire armored division in Sonder City.
Yet every day I'm rolled under my fucking bug because
I'm a goddamn rocket shot, you know. So the idea,
the eight hundred National Guardsmen and a bunch of fat
ass deeages who want nothing to do with patrolling the
National Mall, if you had to look at the girls
running by them, is not Marshall fucking law. It's it's
a jerk off session. It's psychological warforge exactly what you said.
(36:42):
And I was going to bring a point up early.
Where's the where do they decide to rally the National
Guardsmen when they came to DC. Not the airport at
the Pentagon or the park lot the Pentagon, not the airport,
not Union Station park lot. No, they had them rally
on Fourteenth Street in front of the Washington Monument, the
busiest corridor in Washington, DC, see the exit to And
they did it in the afternoon as people are leaving
(37:04):
the city, fleeing frantically to Virginia. These mars Farker's what
a weird thing. Fox News is there already, Isn't that weird? Malcolm, Well,
this is why it's all psychological warfare.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
And I am a huge advocate of counter you know,
counter narrative, count.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Progress program, psychological you know, psychological operations always you know,
fall apart when the enemy has something to say about it,
in this particular instance.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The enemy or the American people. And this is why
I think we need to Well, Los Angeles they did it.
They started as in June deploying these what did they
call them, like National Guard support teams or something, and
they were having like a lawyer, a chaplain, and a
senior enlisted and a veteran who were down there doing
(37:53):
what you said, lecturing them. I think that, you know,
I mean, if if, if, if you guys to get
in on this, I think we get down there with
the bullhorns. Oh, by the way, they did start playing
in the Navy at all of those protests down there
and started getting bullhorns and mocking them in a way
(38:15):
that they would understand it. That guy who dresses like
a chicken or a raccoon. From time to time, Robbie
what's his name, actually kept going up to the soldier goes,
you're laughing. I'm making you laugh. You're laughed on duty.
And he goes, oh, no, look now your buddies are
laughing at you. And I said, this is brilliant to
go down and to surround those vehicles with veterans who
(38:39):
know better, who go, hey, we're handing out new copies
of your Oath of Office or you know, or you're
enlistening oath and spoiling Fox News getting in front of
the White House and veterans. So if you'd like to
organize that, because I think we look, we have Labor
Day coming up. I think it'd be a great time
for a new veterans protest on a larger scale because
(39:02):
the problem, I know what the problem is with your march.
We were in the middle of the No Kings organizing.
We had four weeks to organize the No Kings march
on June fourteenth, And to tell you the truth, I
personally wanted a Veteran's element in Washington, d C. To
counter protest the parade, but everybody said no, no, no,
(39:24):
don't go to d C.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Well, my worry on that, and I'll count of argument
because that's what we do. You and I we if
you guys know me and Malcolm, we butt heads. It's great,
that's what you know. My philosophy was to again the
psychological were for part of it, seeing soldier veterans and
ours protesting the army. How it would be right? We knew, right,
I knew the Fox News and was like, look at
(39:46):
these bastards. They hate the army, and and so I
wanted to avoid the implication that we were there against
the army. So that's why he did it on D
Day instead. But I get you what you're saying too.
I just yeah, well that's spent it.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So as soon as that you said, the d's a vote, right,
they gets a vote. And that's what I was worried about.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
We had we had a national discussion uh on on
of all the major groups move on indivisible, and you know,
we protested it at first, and then when it was explained,
don't be in DC, be in Philadelphia, which is where
I went, which is Marcus Flowers, everybody we know when
and and it was great, it was perfect it was right.
(40:26):
Let Trump have his and it turned out to be
the biggest protesters in DC were the soldiers themselves who
were marked in the parade. But now I think that
it to break their narrative to follow the police around
with you know, or not the police, but to follow
these law enforcement elements around with cameras and people saying,
(40:48):
you know, you have an oath, you swore an oath.
Uh if last night on Fourteenth Street, people finally got
their acts together and they were coming in together in
Unison and started with the get out of our city
chance in the southeast. If I don't know if you
saw the video this morning, my late wife was landscape
(41:11):
architect of Washington, d C. For DC Parks and Red
She was the number three person, remember, and she built
rec centers and playgrounds and skate parks in the southeast
right deliberately in the poorest parts of the city so
that they would have an alternative to crime. And Trump's
(41:32):
thing is like they had that cop down there in
the video yesterday, guys sitting on his front stoop smoking
a cigarette and this guy, you know, they're in the
hsies right, the FBI, and he goes Donald Trump says
Donald Trump is uh, you know, tired of all this crime. Donald.
You know it's it's a crime to smoke, drink out
(41:53):
in public. Donald Trump's tired of it. We need to
get people down there on those bullhorns who go, hey,
you idiots, right, you are supposed to be law enforcement
officers and you are not here to harass the citizens.
You yourself can be individual. Here's something I know they
all don't remember, especially these new ice GUSK because you
(42:17):
know my textbooks are used at Fletsey, the Federal Law
Enforcement Training Center in Glencolle, Georgia. You can be held
individually liable for your actions as a LEO in the
United States government. You can be sued civilly, which is
why they're covering their faces, right. They don't want to
be identified, you know. But what you have to do,
(42:39):
and where they tend to leave is when a crowd
forms and shouts them out. I'm reading a book right
now about the first two years of the French resistance
in the occupation of Paris. The first year it was
passive resistance, and the passive resistance was they flew more
(42:59):
French flags than they had before the occupation. It also
had the disruption factor of not allowing the app there
right German intelligence to figure out who was more patriotic
than the next. Right flags are everywhere. They would also
give flags to people they knew that were collaborators, and
(43:22):
they would sometimes secretly mark their houses with free French
Liberation flags and let the Germans solve the problem for them. Right.
So you know, by the way, this whole occupation of
DC is promised on one thing that that kid big
Balls got his ass beat off of s Street near
(43:44):
the near the Civil African American Civil War Memorial for
my grand great great grandfather and his brother, and was
in an alley at three am in a drinking district,
you know. And no one goes into a freaking alley
off that neighborhood, we don't know whether, or.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
In any town for that matter. I mean, that's that's
what cracks me up. It's like it's common sense went
out the window and suddenly we're you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
But it's really about Trump is doing this because one
white man got his ass beat, right, and and and
use this opportunity as a micro Cristal Knacht right to
come in and do this show of force. I think
if we get more videos out there and people out
there ridiculing them, telling them to leave right making somebody's
(44:36):
got to get that guy down in the raccoon costume
with the FBI body armor on, right or something to
make fun of them. Then they will deflate the optics
of this operation. Uh and and and and and and
That's where I think a lot of the power is
drawn from, because when guys in ames Iowa start seeing
(44:58):
that you know so you and use hearing the words
you are occupying an American city with American troops, you're fascists,
You're Nazis. ICE, as far as I'm concerned, isis is
behind Stott's polit side. Right. They are the state secret police,
the Gestapo, and that's an organization that really needs to
(45:20):
be disbanded in the next administration forever. But ICE going
out there is a US military paramilitary force being used
against US civilians and we need to take the energy
away from them.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I agree, I agree, I think that's and but also
be honest, break them around. I hate to say it,
but break them and and look the Quinting signed up
before truck right DEA agents to not join the DEA,
even even patriots.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
There are patriots that join you and I know them,
and and they join it because they want to break
the cartels. They've seen the danger of Fennel, they've seen
the impact on small town of the fentanyl and the
meth crisis. They joined, as they really do, join to
serve their country in a certain way. I'm fine with that.
They didn't join to be in body armor wandering the
fuck down that yeah, right on the on to intimidate people.
(46:13):
That's not what they signed up for. They're being taken
away for BI agents. Yeah, and agents of the BI
agents patrolling the street. Look you the funniest thing about
the FBI agent again, another example how Donald Trump doesn't
understand the government runs you and I know this. Seventy
five percent of FBI agents are more didn't even come
from law enforcements. They're fucking accountants. They're lawyers.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
They're not they're not they're not.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
That's why they're hired financial crime, bookkeeping. I mean, they're
not tough guy law enforcement. He thinks of the ultimate
what the g men? The g men you know are gon,
We're gonna show you with my Tommy guy Like fuck, dude,
that's not who FBI is there. The biggest, the biggest
nerves I know are FBI agents. He's got them wandering
around downtown d C. So so these men and women
(47:00):
don't want to fucking be there. They don't, So let's let's,
you know, honestly make their lives missile because again there
are fellow Americans and the ones who want to be there.
We're going to fucking shame them, but let's remind them
that this isn't what they signed up for. And then
and forget return and the other thing. The final thing
I'll mentioned, because I do have to go I apologize
is is the National Guard. My son in laws and
National guardsmen in Virginia. I talked to him when this
thing happened. He says, Dad were stretched thin. They've got
(47:23):
their normal deployment rotation like the NTC and the Jaarity
see summer where they just had their summer rotations. Now
they're being sent to do these kind of stupid ship
stand aboard. The governor of Virginia sent a bunch of
them in the fucking border to do seriously, do nothing
but masturbait and fucking sit in the desert, you know,
And and they're warned the fuck out. They're destroying morale,
they're destroying retention. And you notice that motherfucker Pete Hexath,
(47:46):
you talked about all the time how they made their
recruiting goal, made the recruital you know, Joe Biden. But
the other thing they don't talk about, Malcolm. Look the
thing about this administrations, you guys are they don't talk about.
They don't talk about retention. I've been I've been bad
in the drum bullshit. You tell me what the retention
numbers are. Because the real gauge, the real canary in
the fucking coal mine on the military's health and strength
(48:08):
is not recruiting, is fucking retention, because that's when people
vote with their feet, and they're not saying a fucking word, Malcolm.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
At the four year and eight year.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Mark, exactly, the people who walk out, they're not gonna
make retirement anyways. They're making that.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
I think the real canary in the coal mine is
guys like me who got out the first time at
thirteen years. They're in the window for it, and they're
saying fuck right before twelve or at that means you're done.
You hate the military, And they're not reporting tho numbers.
It's the same thing with VA. He keeps talking about
how the benefits claim weight time has gone down. Now
what's going down already he hopped on a fucking slede.
(48:45):
There was already halfway down the mountain. But the thing
he never talks about healthcare waight times. He never talks
about how long it tastes get out patient surgery. He
never talks about how long it tastes to see a
psychologists more. Because we know now from the IG report,
we know from the Guardian racle, we know for Leake
docins pro Publica got that that wait times for actual
health care are fucking skyrocketing, and that is the cover up.
(49:06):
So for me, I've learned quickly in six months it's
not they fucking talk about, it's what they don't talk about.
And this administration is a covering up some really scary shit.
But you know who's gonna pay the price once again, dude,
that look like you and me and our kids. Because
the military is a family fucking business. And as I mentioned,
my sons of my son's a veteran, my my future
(49:26):
son in law is a veteran, My son in law
is a fucking so out of the four kids that
I've got, three out of four are involved with military
members or veterans. Right, Okay, you and I are veterans.
My dad was a better We're gonna pay for this bullshit,
not them, So I think we're gonna keep holding these
people accountable. That's all we can do.
Speaker 5 (49:43):
So, by the way, in my grand complete ran off,
all right, be prepared.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
To deploy that rant at any time.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
There you go, I'm stand by.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
In one sentence so we can end this show. Give
me your assessment of what's going to happen in Alaska.
Are we going to surrender Alaska to Russia? Or what's
going to happen?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Probably a complete fucking trainer. My friend Alex Vimman says
it better because he's a lot smarter than both of us,
and Alex Alex is extremely concerned losing sleep over the
fact that there's no plan we're going. Look, you know
you've been involved diplomacy even remotely, like you've been security.
But I've been in diplomac myself, and there's months of
diplomatic relations that go into preparing for a summit. It
takes sometimes a year to get a summit. You come in,
(50:25):
there's agreed upon things. Where you go to the room.
That's where that that's where the biggergreements come from. They've
already been written. They're just signing them when they get there.
You have a plan, you've got you've already laid out parameters,
You've talked your allies at NATO and Ukraine. You're going
there prepared. No Trump says, hey, let's meet Friday. Well,
let's meet Friday, lad and they're gonna go to fucking Alaska. Sorry, Russia,
if you talk to Trump and they're gonna talk about whatever.
(50:47):
This is Putin's fucking wet dreams. Putin's manipulating presence for
twenty five fucking years. He'd manipulated Trump once already. He
is freaking creaming himself because he knows he's gonna fucking
make Trump look like a jackass. And Trump's gonna do
it with no staff and know a damn thing about diplomacy.
It's gonna be a train wreck. I wouldn't be surprised
he gives away Kiev. Well, the guy's an idiot, the
(51:08):
guy's a fool. He's gonna make NATO and US look bad.
He's gonna hurt our national security. And it's gonna be
either the worst case best case scenario, it's it's just
a fucking mess. Nothing happens. Worst case scenario is Trump
does Trump and then I don't know, man. But that's
not just one sentence, obviously, but I recommend reading my
friend Alex Vinman. He's got a substack. He's done several
(51:30):
pieces on this. Alex has got a very good substack.
I'd definitely look up.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
All right, Well, thank you for coming on black Man's
spy fond to put the veteran had on one and
to talk. Frankly, I think most civilians don't understand us.
They don't, you know, and they need to understand the
parameters of this. If things get out of hand, that's
when you're gonna see your breakdown in military order. But
let's save that for ten years from now. I hope
(51:57):
to god it doesn't happen. And thank you, thank you
Fred for coming on. I'll be more than willing to
come on with you anytime.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I love it out on democracy every Friday night, and
got up to the club for I Levia every fridaynight.
The my is touching up. We still have ontomoxy f P. Wellman,
I'm talking our friend Patrick Murphy this Friday. I've got
a conressor Greg Lansman next week. I love Greg Lansman.
Just came out with a really great like agenda for
Democrats to follow and win back the American people.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
That's every Friday night they're running. It is alive now
on on mind Stuck network every Friday night at seven Eastern.
And of course we've got some interviews I'm doing with
a representatives running, people running for office, and you know,
and I'm every I'm f P Wellman everywhere of course
substack FP woman about substack dot com. So I hope
some of your fans of followers, which you have.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
A lot, Oh, we'll get you a follow. Everybody follow Fred.
He's all right, cool, all.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Right, brother, thanks for talking to you.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
By now. You know, I'm glad this episode we can
inform you if you are not a veteran of how
we think and what we feel about what's going on
in Washington, d C. It may be less than it looks,
but the problem is Trump is increasing his rhetoric and
(53:06):
deployment of people in terms of using the National Guard
and military forces around the United States. But I hope
this conversation with Fred gave you an idea that the
average soldier does not one like this or to support this.
It is hurting their families, it is hurting their real
operations tempo for going to real wars and real emergencies
(53:28):
that confront the American public. And with that, thank you
for viewing another episode of black Man's Spy. Be sure
to follow me on Apple, Stitcher YouTube at black Man's
Spy Podcast on substack at Malcolm Nance dot substack dot com.
That's where I do all of my deep writing, my
(53:48):
live events, and answer your questions. If you become a
paid subscriber. We have special paid subscriber Q and a's
you can just come right up and ask me whatever
is on your mind or even ask for advice. Those
are what we do there. You can find me on
TikTok at a real Malcolm Nance and on I'm still
on Twitter slash x where I'm using the platform to
(54:11):
harass the vet bro neo Nazi right wing crazies, and
that is Malcolm Nance at Malcolm Nance dot I'm sorry
it's not Twitter anymore, right at Malcolm Nance on x
dot com. I'm on Blue Sky at Malcolm Nance dot
b s k y dot com, thank you again and
(54:33):
as I like to say, next week, see you on
the beach.
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.