We've Reached Our Fu*king Limit! - Get the Democratic Avengers Together: With Joy-Ann Reid

Malcolm Nance speaks with Joy Ann Reid, political analyst, bestselling author and former host of  MSNBC’s highest-ever rated weekend show, AM Joy. 

In this episode, Joy speaks with Malcolm about interviewing JD Vance on MSNBC (and whether or not he killed the pope,) why Trump hired Kristi Noem and how Tulsi Gabbard managed to become the Director of National Intelligence. Plus, Malcolm shares who he thinks should take over the DNC and Joy describes why Democrats have struggled to beat fascism.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Democratic Party is not equipped to fight fascism.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
They're just not.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
They are a marquise to Queensbury rules party. They are
a rules based entity. They're great at the mechanics of government.
They're great at creating social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare. But
the challenge that Democrats have always had, each of those
important things has only been able to be enacted when

(00:30):
Democrats had their own version of a political strongman, a
charismatic leader to force those things through. But Democrats right
now don't have that. They don't have a charismatic leader.
And Democrats, for whatever reason, need leaders, and the young
charismatic leaders like Jasmine Crockett and AOC they want them
in the lead because they are a turns based party

(00:53):
and they're saying it's not their turn and so therefore
they can't be the leader because they also don't follow
our rules, and so because they're so, they can't fight
fascism because they just want to do it within the
context of regular politics.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
This is black Man Spy.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Welcome to this week's edition of black Man's Spy. I'm
Malcolm nance I am the proverbial black Man's Spy whose
podcast you're listening to or watching. We have a great,
great guest today, a good friend of mine, someone who
I worked with for almost six years at MSNBC, the

(01:36):
famous Joy and Read former hosts of Am Joy on WNBC,
I'm Sorry on MSNBC, and she was also host of
The Joy Reid Show in primetime. But now she has
been rehomed to YouTube, where she is amongst the political
elite who are now commenting outside the bounds of corporate

(02:00):
news media. She has her own show, The Joy Reid Show,
which runs every Monday, Wednesday and Friday on YouTube. And
without any further pause, please, I'd like to introduce you
and start the interview of our twice NAACP Image Award
Emmy nominated journalist, geopolitical analyst and definitely the smartest person

(02:25):
I know on the machinations of the Trump administration.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Joy Reid.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
Joy Reid, Welcome to this special maple leaf flavored Canadian
based version of black Man's Spy. And you know the
funny thing is, I just came back from Greenland, where
right after the US had released stories that they were
sending spies to Greenland. So I get there, the first

(02:57):
thing IBO asked is, Hey, are you the spy.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
I go.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm telling you that because I who tells you what
I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
I'm the good spy. I'm here and we're going to
talk for about that. But now I'm in Canada, and
you know I'm on with I'm on the Canadian side,
all very nice here, and I'm just outside Montreal in
the Laurentian Mountains.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Which is just full of lakes. Like every ten seconds.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
I think I went running this morning and I ran
by three different lakes.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
It's just awesome.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Well, you know in the Handmaids to Canada is the refuse.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I know you couldn't mind when I'm outside your door
begging to say.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
The first it's the first scene. And the thing is,
I go back and forth, so I'm not here all
the time. So we have people who already want to
come up and you know, get out. And I told
the realtor, I said, you could start your own business
called Elegant Asylum. Read these places and then the people
come from Gilead. So with that, let's talk seriously, because

(04:03):
it's not like the world isn't on fire or anything.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
I will I will.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Refrain from starting it the way I started with Michael
Steel last week, which was a rousing WTF.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
All right, I will just.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Ask you, Joy, what the hell could did you ever,
based on anything that we ever predicted, all of our talk,
think that things would get this bad this far in America.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
I think I'm not surprised that it's gotten as bad,
to be honestly, you know, I'm surprised by the speed
with which it's gotten as bad. You and I back
in our am Joy days.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
If you will recall, we're.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Consistently saying you cannot give a man like Donald Trump
power because he is a fascist and if you just power,
they will use it to make themselves into a dictator.
And we've been saying that for years and years and years. No,
on't want to hear it, right, But we said it,
and we were thought of it as insane. We were
told we were hysterical, that we were overdoing it, that

(05:07):
we were impertinent, cruel, you name it. We were dumb,
we were everything. Now it's happening and people are like, oh,
holy crap, it's fascism.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, we told you.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
And here's the difference between Trump then and Trump now
and Trump in twenty sixteen was a clown who had
handlers and the handlers of the clown were people like
General Mattis, like General Mark Millie, even John Kelly, who
I'm not a fan of General John Kelly, a right
wing general, but who's an American, a patriotic, you know, American.

(05:41):
He had even people like Rex Tillerson, not a fan,
but Rex Tillerson is a serious person. And so even
when he hired and put people in his administration because
he liked the way they wooked. Do you like it
with them on TV or whatever? They were actually serious people.
And you had people behind the scenes who were also
constraining is crazy and forcing him to behave like a

(06:03):
normal president at least sometimes. Now Donald Trump is fully unhinged,
and he is surrounded only by sycophants, clowns, cartoon characters,
and fools. And there's nobody. There are no Mattresses, there
is no Mark Milli, there are no serious people.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's Tulsi Gabbard crazy for him.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's Pete Hegseth, the biggest joke who's ever been defense secretary.
I'm embarrassed as an American that that's our defense secretary,
and fully embarrassed, fully embarrassed. Marco Rubio, who I keep
telling y'all, if it's up to Marco Rubio to save you,
you're already dead. It's a saying they say in Florida.
He has no conscience, no principles except.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
Well, let's talk about that real quick, because you know,
I really didn't give it a lot of thought. I
just thought, this is a man that cares nothing about
any principle he has ever stood on. Are these people all,
you know, psychopaths? I mean, he doesn't have any empathy.
Remember the way you used to talk so fulsomely about

(07:11):
Cuba and about Ukraine and really was supposedly a serious,
serious foreign policy player.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
And now he's sitting in the seats of Thomas Jefferson.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
Right, and and you know, I mean he stinks of
you know, incompetence and regret. But worse regret is you know,
it's it's like those movies where you have the scratch
track and the narrator says, but it's not going the
way that he wanted it, you know, and he's sitting

(07:43):
there thinking, man, I could have been president.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
I could have run for president. But now we're finding
out his character was so dangerously ambitious.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
Ted Cruz levels of psychopathy. But he keeps his mouth shut, right,
which is even worse.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
I'd rather have a psychopath that tells me what he's
up to.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
But Ted Cruz levels of ambition, but will betray him
anyone and anything in any stand he ever had before.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
For the what the adoration, the glow of the worshipers.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
Of Donald Trump explained that please try to make that
make sense.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
And you know what, and it's almost an insult to
Ted Cruz because Ted Cruz weakling.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
He's a stimp.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
You're carrying stooge, just like Rubio is. But Ted Crews
actually believes in something. Ted Cruse is a dominionus. In
his interview with another one of my the people I
really dislike and hate agreeing with Tucker Carlston.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
He's always jumping ahead, right, he exposed.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Himself as a full on dominionist.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
He said that he came into office in twenty fourteen
for the main purpose of supporting Israel. That was his
main purpose, not supporting the people of Texas, not supporting
the United States Israel. And then he said the reason
that it's even okay if Israel spies on us is
because in the Bible it's and he couldn't even tell
you what verse, but he knows somewhere in the Bible

(09:14):
it says that those who bless Israel will be blessed
in those who curse Israel be cursed. And he thinks
that the current Israel, the current country, is the exact
same thing as the Israel in the Bible. He's a
Dominions but Rubio doesn't even have that level of ideological commitment.
Mark Arubio believes in nothing. He's been a Catholic, he's

(09:34):
been a Mormon, he's been an Evangelical. He's whatever religion
works for him in the moment, and he's also whatever
ideology works for him in the moment. He's been a
bush stile Republican. He's been a supposed Tea partier, which
is the opposite of a Bush style Republican. He's been
for Ukraine, doesn't give a crap about Ukraine. He's been
hard on Russia. He doesn't care if Russia is dominating

(09:55):
the earth.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
He doesn't belie even anything.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
He thought Donald Trump was a small penis weekly and
now he thinks Donald Trump is God. Mark Ruby believes
in nothing, but he doesn't even have the intellectual heft
of a Ted Cruz who's barely got any He's got less,
so he couldn't even be president. And I have always
said this man will never be president because he doesn't

(10:17):
believe in anything.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Trump has the talent of performance.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
He doesn't even know that Mark Ruby is doing what
he's doing now because in his mind he thinks that
somehow he can inherit the cult of Donald Trump. That
when Trump is aged out, and when God, when when
the devil takes him home, when he goes back from
whence he came, when his soul, when the man, when

(10:44):
the creature to which has sold his soul, takes him,
he thinks that he will inherit that cult. As they
all think it. They think they can inherit the cult.
What they don't understand is that when Jim Jones was gone,
there was no other Jim Jones. There was one Jim Jones.
And when he killed all those people in the forests

(11:04):
of Diana, even his son could not become the next
Jim Jones. Because cults are suy generous. They worshiped one person,
not even God. They worshiped one God. And these people
are a monotheistic cult, and the mono the god is
named Donald Trump.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Really so you know, I know I had intended to
start with the general geopolitics of the world, but no,
this is important, these facets of understanding. Certainly from your perspective,
you're one of the top political analysts in the United States.
The very fact that you got fired, or let me
rephrase that we assigned to the civilian world owned.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yes, BC studio gathers.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Wait, you're down in Maryland, right, so, but the very
fact that you can frankly say what we all understand,
which is true. I mean, you know, there's a certain
thing that I think that a lot of people in
the white community don't understand about the black community. Why

(12:16):
that devil takes him? Oh com that made me cry
with laughter, because the hard truth of it is ground
over centuries of watching these people gain advantage simply because
they are They are characters, they are players, and they
can they can they can be openly blatant, horrible charlatans

(12:41):
and gain a following. I farken back to one of
my favorite one book, I would arguably say my favorite book,
which is The Ventures of Huckleberry Finn. And you know,
at the end of the towards the end of the book,
you know, he meets these two con artists, right, who
are going around claiming that one is the King of

(13:03):
England and the others the.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Dauphin of France.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Right, that everybody believes them, right, and to the point
where and who you know, And Huckleberry Finn realizes, if
I hitch my start of these guys, if I hang
around with these guys, I'll just take in the rooms.
We'll eat well. And then boom, Tom Sawyer pops back
up and he sees the genius.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Of white people lying to.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
The genius of it.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Even Tom Sawyer was impressed. Right.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
And if you argue that Tom Sawyer is the conscience
of Mark Twain, right, and Huckleberry Finn is just the
narrator of how horrible people are, and that Jim himself,
like all African Americans on the outside, recognize insanity and
stupidity when we see it because you know just the

(13:55):
shared nature of our existence. You know. It just parks
to why I find it so fascinating that people like
jd Vance, who I'm going to ask you about next,
because you are you do know these people at a
level that no one else can really know.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Had you interviewed jd Vance.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Same show all the time.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
When first came out, I reached out to my team
at William Morris at w ME and said, hey, you guys,
I think you guys represent this guy because everyone's trying
to book him. He was a hard booking and so
they we managed to get him, and I interviewed him.
This is when he was chubby, when he didn't have
his facial hair, which I think he thinks makes him
look cool.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
Oh yeah, that's a maga that's a maga thing, right.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
And when he was pretending to be human being. Yeah,
and he was pretending and I know now.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
That it was pretend because his behavior during the campaign
I thought was more reprehensible in many ways than Trump's,
because his attacks on Vice President Harris were so vile,
so guttural, so gut that it made to me him
unqualified morally and in terms of character to be vice

(15:11):
president of the United States. I thought, what he said
calling her trash four days before the election, I will
never forgive normal, I forget. But yeah, well, we had
him on a m joy. He was still a pudgy
little chubber who was telling about his book, and he
claimed that the thesis of the book and I had read,

(15:31):
you know, I tried to read the books before they
come on, but in this case, we were so full
of like wacky like stuff going on then Trump stuff,
that I only got through about the first like third
of it. So i'd read about a third of it.
I'd read it before he got to the part where
he basically slams his own people, Appalachians as lazy use rules.
But the first part is not yet a dishtrack. In

(15:54):
the beginning, it sounds like a love letter, and then
it shifts into a distract later in the book once
I then after the and if you've read the rest
of the book, like ooh, this is rough on white
poor people, it was a haterism on white poor folks.
But what he was saying in the interview, and the
interview still exists online, is that there are pathologies in

(16:16):
the white community that mirror the pathologies that are claimed
to exist within the black community, Meaning in the white community,
there is a shallow work ethic, there is a desire
to get federal assistance and financial assistance from the government,
and that there is a dependency on those things in
the white community. And also in his own telling, rampant

(16:39):
drug abuse and pain and want, and that is true.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
There is a lot of.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Pain, want and drug abuse within the white poor community,
which is larger than the black poor community. The majority
of poor folks in America are white. They're in Appalachia,
and they're in the places he claims to come from,
and those people need government assistance. Those people actually could
benefit from some federal help, but he kind of shames

(17:05):
them for it, rather than admitting that this is a
failure of our society, that poor people, white and black,
can't make it in the richest country on Earth. So
he has a lack of empathy for his own people.
And he's also a liar.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
This man. At the time, back.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Before, when he was at Yale and he was friends
with trans people, he was sort of cosplaying as a normal.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Sort of liberalish ivy leaguer, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
He pretended that that was that his reason for getting
into public life was to sort of help those people, right,
But it turns out he just wanted to be rich
and he hooked up with Peter Teeal and decided to
just make a buck and it made up, and then
became a senator and now he's I think he's ripped
the veil off and he's his real self. But yeah,
I don't have a great deal of respect for Jade
Vance if I'm being honest, or whatever his name is.

(17:54):
I think he's been John Donald, James, David, whatever the
hell his name is different.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, three different names. Well that that explains
a lot. So how do you explain that he killed
the Pope?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not well, I
not often but.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
The occasion, listen, I've only I was on the Catholic
tol I was six, and then he speaks to low
ceiling church because me and my sister was a little
noisy in latinage. Okay, so my mom was like, oh,
let's go to a church with a low ceiling. You're
now Methodists. But I'm so fascinated with the Catholic Church.
And I loved the previous probe who we just nicknamed

(18:37):
Pontiffects because he cared so much for the poor.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
He was such a real what Catholics should be.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
That man, literally within hours of his own death, confronts
someone who is essentially prostituting the theology of Christ, who
has claimed that the Bible claims that we're supposed to
care for our family first and.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Only then the people in the community.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
It doesn't say that had to correct his false theology,
which is a theology of selfishness. It is the philosophy
of Peter Teel that is masquerading as Christianity. Those of
us who grew up in the church, whether we were
a Catholic or Protestant or whatever. If you actually read
the Bible, you understand that it is cared for the
poor and the immigrant. That is primary in the mind

(19:27):
of God, in the mind of Jesus, right, if you
believe just the voice of God and the Son of God,
that's what he believed. For this man to publicly state
that the real philosophy of Jesus is to not care
for the immigrant, to just care for your own people,
to be selfish, this gospel of selfishness is apostasy. And
I think that he knew he was coming to his end.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I do believe this.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I think that the pope had a spiritual sense, and
I think that he could feel that his time was
coming to an end, and he decided go ahead and
have this meeting. I didn't really want to meet with
genuine Catholic or believer but I'm gonna speak truth to wickedness.
And I think he used his last hours to speak

(20:12):
truth to wickedness.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
We don't know what he said to him.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Wow, but I think he's looked in the eye of
wickedness and met it on his way to glory.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
That is an amazing take. And now it makes a
lot of sense. I mean, it makes a lot of sense.
It also makes a lot of sense that the new
Pope called his ass in and read them the.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Riot Act carpet. Yeah, that's right, that's right, the old
blood in there.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
You know, I find that fascinating because we now have
this trend of where I suspected JD.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Vance when he was quote unquote Catholic.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
I was raised Catholic from go right, and I've been
around and I've at the Jesus' Owner's Manual.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
And pretty sure none of the things that we're.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Doing is going to get any longevity out of this
car we call Christianity. But the new Pope hauling him
in and essentially reading him the Riot Act and dropping
hints left and right, and you know which popes didn't do.
You know, recently, they tried to be a political But
now the embrace and the almost unanimous conclave.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
It was just like, oh, yeah, that guy's pope, all right.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
And I know some people in the United States that
aren't gonna like this, right, It's like the entire conclave said, oh,
we're choosing an American pope, all right, who's going to
remind all of you of this Jesus.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Christ guy and what he really stood for. And you know,
the funny thing is I had just watched conclave.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
And you know, just watched it and thought, Oh, the
machinations of this, the dirtiness of this this guy was
the unanimous pope.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
What did they take like a day, yeah, or something
like that.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Usually it takes forever, right, and they have to go
through all of those formal bouts of voting, and this one,
obviously it was like two bouts of voting, and you know,
and they said, okay, let's hold it back a day.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
We could all have lunch. But I found this fascinating that.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
The world's Christianity, the Christian move which I personally thought
when they said, oh, they elected an American pope, we
were going to go back to the pope during Nazi Germany, right,
someone who was going to become an enabler of the
worst whims of a Christian Church that was now going
to embrace corporatism, and you know, which supported Mussolini, which

(22:47):
gave tacit support to Hitler against Judaism.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
And I was floored that not this world, not this pope.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
This I thought, this is the first real lash back
against the global wave of fascism that we're seeing, which
I wrote in my book Plot to Destroy Democracy, I
called the axis of autocracy, where Putin was going to
control the eastern hemisphere of the United States, the western hemisphere,

(23:18):
Asia would be China. They would make these new poles
of the world and that the world.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Would not be able to withstand.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
This, and then they would go country by country, which
they're still trying to do. But Trump was designed to
be that rigid pole in the Western hemisphere to lock
in Putin, she and himself into these these three separate
polls that would get rid of liberal democracy around the world.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
And I think that this, you know, the new Pope.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
Is a lashback in a large way to come back
and say all of those downtrodden people, they're not talking
to Trump, talking to all of the global South, Yeah, right,
all of Latin America, all of Sub Saharan Africa. Wow,
that's a fascinating take on it. I didn't intend to
go there at all. But I don't think anyone's talking

(24:13):
about it.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
I don't think anyone's talking about it.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
And and I think about you know, these two popes.
Francis who named himself after a prior pope whose primary
purpose is caring for the poor and the immigrant and
literally rapidly that I am an immigrant. You know, he
was in his family immigrated to South America from Italy,

(24:35):
I believe, and he said I am.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
He's like, I was embraced as an immigrant. And so he.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Francis, you know, was very demonstrably moving the church back
in favor of Jesus's read letters. And now you have
Leo who did the same thing. He's like, I'm going
to name myself after the pope who admonished the West
for slavery.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, I'm going to wrap.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Myself in that tradition, and I'm going to speak true
truth to the Americans who are bastardizing Christianity. And I'm
going to say it in English. I'm going to say
it in Chicago accented English. Baby, He's not going to
have to translate what I say to him. When I
speak to JD. Vance, he gon't understand what I'm saying
because I'm from Chicago and my people are from New Orleans,

(25:20):
and I embraced my heritage and my great well. I
was told his great grandfather used to hang with Mark
Morial's great grandfather. They used to go together. So he's
a whole creole. And now Trump has to deal with
it and not a translated version of the truth, the truth, truth,
and he's going to speak that truth. And I have
to say, those polls that you talk about in creating

(25:41):
this access of autocracies, I gotta put Israel in there.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
I thought when I wrote my last book, I thought
that who was going down? Because I had Turkey, Israel, Egypt,
all of these strong men rise or born in Hungary.
Now we've got the Slova Serbia and they're where they're
popping up.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
They're popping up hard now. And this isn't whack a mole.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
When they come up, they're up, and they have support
from the other autocrats.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
And the world right.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
And you knowl Salvador's got what they right, the World
schoolst Dictator, Argentina's got one. Poland just got rid of theirs.
Hungary's got one, You've got Modi.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
In India, You've got to.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Netanyahu has been prime minister for fifteen years and is
now attempting to place himself atop the region as essentially
the hedgemon in the region and trying to brush aside
Iran in Saudi Arabia to make himself the hedgemon in
that region. And he is, I mean Bill Clinton has
said it. He intends to be prime minister for life.
He tends to staff nail get out of his problems.

(26:46):
He is going to he he will not. And I
think what he thinks he's going to deliver to the
religious fundamentalists who have given him power is genocide. He
is going to remove every Palestinian from that land, put
those settlers back in God, take the settlers and give
them all of the West Bank. And that's what he thinks.
He's fond because he's not religious, but he's going to

(27:06):
give that to his radical followers. That this man is
now forcing us into a war, dragging us and I
don't even know why, because we.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Ain't in a war with Iran. Why are we involved
in this?

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Because Bibi said so I'm afraid that Trump is a
strong man, but he's a strong man junior. He makes
himself junior to stronger strong men, whether it is Putin
or whether it is BB And for whatever reason, he's
not the big daddy strong men. He's the baby strong
man who gets led around by other strong men.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Every Thursday, I do a Substack podcast with Michael Cohen
and Left Partners, two guys who know Trump intimately right
work with him, And I call it, you know, we
call it unleashed, but I actually call it two felons
and a spy, and I get the greatest information out
of these two about the weirdest angles of Trump's behavior.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
And they both called this weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Weeks ago, they said, Netanyah, who is gonna put Trump
in a box? And the one thing Trump cannot stand
he will do anything to avoid it is being made
to look like a weak junior partner partner and Netan
Yaho by attacking Iran four days before Trump's I'm gonna

(28:25):
get a Nobel prize for making a deal with Iran. Right,
what I call the not the old Obama's JCPOA, but
the Trump CPOA. Right, the whitewashed version of it. Netanyah,
who wasn't playing that game, but he understands the psyche
of Donald Trump the way Putin understands it, and he goes,
I'm just gonna put him in a position where he

(28:46):
will have to attack Iran because if he does it,
he's gonna come off his week. And if he does,
we're gonna praise him as the new you know, as
the new great strong man Emerican leader was saved Israel, right,
and you know that will help with his Jewish face,

(29:06):
that will solidify him in the history of Israeli history.
And three to one, boom we hit him, and I
knew we're just going to have to hit him. Interestingly,
the places that the Israeli said they could not penetrate
were Fordus, part of the Tans, and Isfahan, and it's

(29:29):
almost like they left us this target set, you know.
I mean, as soon as I heard, I go, oh
was interesting, Wow, those three targets that only the two
bombers can get. I see what's going on here, And
they were like, oh, well Trump had to The minute
Trump did his two weeks thing, left, Harness comes out

(29:51):
and he goes, He's hitting them, right, away.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
He's hitting them right away.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
I saw by the way. I don't want to brag here.
You know, I've done a bunch of things this year.
I've been overbragging. I saw the faint when those B
twos took off out of Whitman.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Okay, there was already a whole fleet of.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Tankers across the Atlantic, and I said, no, one's flying
to Guam. West right, they'd be going to Guam. I said, no,
it won't come into the window. It won't come into
the striped window. And then when we saw the tankers
going east, I said, they're attacking.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
They're flying straight from Kansas.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
They used to have They had six of them in Diego,
Garcia and they all went back. And so that was
a cute little ploy. I'm certain that wasn't anything Pete
Hegsett came up with. Right, that was the Joint chiefs
are like listen, O sent people are watching. But that
being said, it put Trump inside a box. And now
Trump's in a bigger box because full disclosure, I fought

(30:51):
the Iranians in nineteen eighty eight. I'm one of the
few people in the US military were retired to ever
go into direct combat with the Iranians in nineteen eighty eight.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
They almost killed us.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
They missed my ship by one hundred and fifty feet,
but we slaughtered them. We wiped them out. The Iranians
learned some lessons back then.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
First, don't have one last anti ship missile in your inventory.
They have over one thousand. Now they have small boats.
They have a capability.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
They want to set fire to the entire Arabian golf
or slash Persian golf, they can do it in a
matter of hours. That's why Katar just emptied Udeid Air Base. Qatar,
they closed their airspace today. They're expecting to get somebody
in a round is like, hey, you know you might
want to step away from that American base. So if
Qatar closed their airspace, United Arab Emirates is going to

(31:40):
close their airspace today, probably Eastern Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain,
which means they already know they're all getting hit.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
And that brings me.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
To my next question, because this is Black Man Spy Podcast,
Pal and the Love of Christ.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Did Tulsi Gabbard get to be the Director of National Intelligence?

Speaker 4 (32:03):
She was She didn't even meet the minimum requirements to
be a career intelligence professional. She was a congresswoman, a
cult leader or a congresswoman, then went into the National
Guard and was a reserve ulsterer for a couple of years.
And now that she'd got that job, now she's being

(32:24):
blown off by Trump, so we expect her out.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Can you explain what went on with that she's on?

Speaker 1 (32:31):
They were all on Fox Donald Trump. And this is
the way I finally have decided to characterize it. Don
Trump hired all spokespeople, but gave them the big job.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Everyone that he hired would have been a reasonable spokesperson.
I could see Pelsey Gabbard being the press secretary or
spokesperson for some intelligence service if they wanted it. Pete
Hegseth would have been a perfectly reasonable DoD spokesperson.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Perfectly reasonable.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
He's got TV experience, Tom Trump likes the way he look,
likes his television. He's white. Trump liked white. He's white
and male. He's got the demos, you know. I think
Pam BONDI perfectly reasonable if she was the spokesperson for
the Justice Department.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
She's TV.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
She mainly was on TV when she was the Attorney
General of Florida. Her main job at AG and Florida
was to go on Fox. She doesn't do a whole
lot of litigateon she does a.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Lot of talking on Fox. Right, she's wonde, she's white.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Telsea Gabbert probably could be a good spokesperson, I mean
pretty also white.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
And so I think what he.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Was looking for were white people with conservative views who
were great spokespeople because Donald Trump doesn't know anything. He
doesn't know anything about running the government. He doesn't know
anything about much of anything other than being a television performer.
So a bunch of people, I mean doctor Oz, I
mean if I guess, if you wanted a spokesperson for

(33:58):
something around help, you could doctor Oz. Lots of people
would listen to him because he came from OPRAH. But
making him in charge of it in terms of the
Medicaid and Medicare services, he.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Don't know anything about that. RFK JR A nutt.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Would he be a.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Person if you wanted to make him the spokesperson for
like a federal task force on getting rid of red
dye number three?

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Okay, I don't like him, I look at that, but
people and made them give him the actual job.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Jenneral hire people who know how to do the thing,
and then you put the Pete Hexas to be the spokesperson.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
And this chick right here, Tulcy. She wasn't even the
good congresswoman. She was a backbencher who the Democrats were like, oh,
she's too crazy for us.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Even the Democrats when she was a Democrat wouldn't put
her in the front because they were.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Like, she's a weirdo. But Trump, she's so pretty and
so white.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
Well, let's let's be fair here, because I have an
on good authority that the first question he asked her,
which sealed the job for was did she ever get
those puppies?

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Those one Dalmatians you're talking about?

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh my god, CHRISTINEO Christino, you know why he hired Christine.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
I'm gonna tell you, why are shooting the dog? She No,
I don't think he knew about the dog. Trump does
not like dog.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Trump is weird, and that he's the only president who
seems to really not like dogs. They hired her, I
promise you yes, because she got the botox makeover, she
got the mar A Lago makeover, so she's got the
you know, she's got the puffy you know, they pumped
the whatever in her lips and pumped the whatever in
her made her look like all of the women in Maga.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
So she got the look. But also remember when she
was governor of what she which Dakota, when the there only.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Of them, he said that they should put Trump's face
on route mush rushmore.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yeah and done.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, That's why she got to I promise you, I
promise you. Because he's Trump.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
People say that women are emotional. I was just having
this conversation with some folks earlier. People talk to women
are being emotional. No, Trump is, and men Trump is
the example of the kind of super emotional man who
has no his mental aren't engaged.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
It's all emotion.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
And so if you make him feel good and make
him feel happy and make him feel important.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
He will give you anything. He's like that dude who
sleeps with a pretty girl and right.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
And then empties his bank account because she slept with
him one time, and suddenly he's Roman Daniels.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
He's just like, I'm just gonna give you a bunch
of money.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Oh my god, a pretty clept with me. Here's some money,
an emotional basket, Cayse and he can't make And I
think that the reason Beebie was able to play him.
Was I think your explanation is far more intelligent and
reason and you are first moves and expert. My Trump
is an emotional basket case explanation is Boebe said, No,
Marini is trying to kill you, Bro, They're trying to

(37:08):
fascinate you.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
You better get them before they get you Trump. They're
trying to kill you. They're with them, they might be woke.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
He just uses, oh, used emotional hit on Trump. Because
Trump's so easily triggered, then.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
I need to tigre it them.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Wow. That is a fascinating take.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Okay, I've learned so much on this episode and I'm
interview with you. Okay, we'll talk about it ran on
your podcast or do you bring me there? Wait for
those of you who are hearing this on Apple or Spotify.
Every time you hear me go, I'm rolling my eyes
because you can't see it, or I'm putting my hands

(37:50):
over my face because the things that I don't want
to know none of this.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Okay, listen, but.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
That brings me now to do something I seriously want
to talk to you about. And I touched on this
with Mike with Michael Steele last week by the way
I have personally encouraged to run for chair of the DNC.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
I think as chair of the DNC.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
He could wipe the floor with the Republicans, you know
from being an insider there. But he does more on
his show, any given show, than I see at.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
A Democratic National Committee.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
And when Ken Martin made his statement about David Hogg
a couple of weeks ago about.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
He doesn't know if he can do this job.

Speaker 4 (38:36):
If this is you know, with these pressures of that
twenty five year old kid saying not mean things. My
first day I actually tweeted this. I said, I'll take
the fucking job, right. Somebody, for Christ's sakes, get up
there and fight.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
And that's all people really want.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
The Democratic Party, if I'm not mistaken, is at a
twenty one percent approval rating. It could jump to sixty
overnight if they all stood up as a body and
decided to fight for America and say it and say
we're gonna fight. We're done with this, We're fighting. We're
gonna hold up everything, nothing gets done. We're taking you

(39:17):
all down. Also, David Hogg was right. Anybody that votes
against the Party in this existential crisis of America and
as you know, I'm a Philadelphian. I take this founding
father's experiment very personally, very seriously. He was right, we
should be primarying people out of existence. People need to

(39:37):
understand it's time to pull the Joe Biden. You need
to say, hey, I need to step out of the
way to save the country.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Otherwise it's all lost.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
But people seem to think, and Michael said this several times,
that this is just politics as usual.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
It's an unusual brand of politics.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
And the way I characterize it, I said, well, Keen, Jeffries,
and Chuck Schumer seemed to think that it is a
cumbent upon them to maintain the dignity of the honor
of serving in Congress and that they should remain a
bone china cooling saucer of democracy. And the problem is

(40:22):
literal molten lava is being bored onto the bone china
saucer cup and it's consuming you, your hand, and the
rest of American democracy.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Not exactly is someone going to this isn't my question.
I'm getting to a question.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
I'm getting to an action item for you, because my.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Problem is that I'm dealing in national security.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
On one hand, the reason I left Ukraine after my
tour with the Ukrainian Army was.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Because I saw things were falling apart.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
Back here in America, and then they have fallen apart,
done crash boom, And you know, I'm trying very hard
to mobilize people for the you know, I worked with
the No Kings protests.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
But what I'm finding.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
Most disturbing this is where you, as someone who has
power and influence and knows the right people, do we
I'm proposing this because the Democratic Party and those who
support American American democracy seem to think.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
That that regular basic machinations as.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
They've existed for two hundred and forty nine years, are
going to get us out of this. I have people
tell me all the time, twenty twenty six the elections
are going to be.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
I said, forget it all, right. I started a new.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Political action committee I don't know if you know that
called FAFO PAC, which stands for Focused Action Focused Objectives,
which means we don't do nothing without an action that
everyone can do, and you don't do nothing unless it
achieves an objective. And right now, my objective was helping

(42:04):
turn out that three point five percent of the population.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Here's question one for you.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
Kamala Harris achieved seventy six point five million American votes.
What in God's name will it take to get half
of them?

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Thirty give me thirty.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Four million of them to come into the streets in March.
Why do they feel uninvested that they can go out
and vote for Kamala Harris and try work so hard
to save democracy the one day that we need them
out right, which was three Kings, No King's Day?

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Three? Are we living in Spain? So I got that
in my head, No King's Day? And now we're going
to have another one.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
Right, this is going to be a continuous campaign of marches.
But we are literally in an existential crisis.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
And here's my take on why they're not turning.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
Out, because no Democratic leader will say no, do this.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
They sit silently. They want to say that they.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
Are the opposition, the dignified and un honored opposition, and
they will do their work within the halls of power.
But with exception of AOC, you know guys like Malcolm Kenyata,
Maxwell Frost, Young Young Bucks right stepping up and calling

(43:32):
it out and screaming at the top of I hear
more from Joe Walsh than Joe Walsh, a former Republican
congressman who is now a Democrat, is defending the Democratic
Party but chastising them in a much better way than
anyone in Congress.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Is how can Hakeem Jeffreys claim he's from Brooklyn? They did?
They lose their nerve in Brooklyn? Did he deliver water ice?

Speaker 4 (44:00):
I mean, what, why in God's name will this party
not stand up and fight and don't tell me they
are They're not because it's a sinking ship.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
They don't feel obliged to.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
Want to bail it out or anything, or or send
off an SOS. It's just like, well, I'm sure we
have some deck chairs and a nice orchestra.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
I think that the answer to that as somebody who's
been a Democrat and worked both, you know, both as
an observing Democrat as a voting Democrat, and also haven't
worked in campaign politics a couple of times, including on
thempaign briefly and on America for Americaming Together, which was
very grassroots. But you know, George Sorol's funded attempts to
oust George W. Bush because I so deeply was.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Offended by the Iraq War right.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
The Democratic Party is not equipped to fight fascism.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
They're just not. They are a marquise to Queensbury rules party.
They are a rules.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Based entity and they have a very slow, methodical way
of operating, which is about governing. They're a great governing party.
But even with governing, I wasn't a great at governing.
They're great at the mechanics of government. They're great at
creating Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, meals on wheels, headstart.

(45:22):
Every progressive thing we have in this country that keeps
people from dying poor or dying elderly and broke was
created by the Democratic Party because they're very good at
creating solutions based legislation. But the challenge that Democrats have
always had each of those important things has only been

(45:42):
able to be enacted when Democrats had their own version
of a political strong man, a charismatic leader right to
force those things through FDR four term president boss man
who was like this is getting through LBJ asked whole
Texas Congress senator who was willing to force members of

(46:05):
the United States Senate to listen to him on the
crapper while he screamed at them and cut deals that
with Republicans saying we will stand down and not oppose
your reelection if you go for this bill, but if
you don't go for the bill and destroy you like
the Democrat and the and Obama who had the charisma
and the acumen to be a public advocate for Obamacare

(46:27):
in a way that forced it through and also took
advantage of Al Franklin getting that seat, and as soon
as they got the sixty vote, they jammed that thing
through Pelosi and Harry Reid, who was a brilliant strategist.
But Democrats right now don't have that. They don't have
a charismatic leader. And Democrats, for whatever reason, need leaders,
and the young charismatic leaders like Jasmine Crockett and AOC

(46:48):
they want them in the lead because they are a
turns based party and they're saying it's not their turn
and so therefore they can't be the leader because they
also don't follow our rules and they must and so
because they're so rules, they can't fight fascism because they
just want to do it within the contexts of regular politics.
As you said, and when you started, they think this
is just a very outree form of politics and that

(47:10):
they can use regular politics to beat it, you can't
and every you know, I just finished reading Jason Stanley's
new book, and of course I just reread How Fascism
Works by Jason Stanley. Jo Rico is one of our
first guests, and what he says, and he makes it
very clear, is that to beat fascism you need a
combination of mass protests, as you said, a mass protest

(47:34):
people just saying we will not allow this system to
continue to function.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
That's how South Africa achieved freedom.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
You have to say we object and we won't participate
in the system. We will shut the system down until
you're start right. It's how Iran overthrew our dictator, the
Shah of Iran that we forced on them. They students
and to the detriment of Iranian women today, but they
said we you will not have this dictator over us
in nineteen fifty seven.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
You will not.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
You overthrew most of that f you America, Death to America.
They literally were like, we're going to take out your
your shaw of Iran and we're going to put in
our own government. We don't like it, it's not what
we want it, but it's our fault, right, And so
the reality is you need a combination of that mass
protest and you also need a charismatic leader because unfortunately,
human beings are like dogs in a way, right, dogs

(48:23):
want alpha to lead them and you. And it seems
that Americans and that people who oppose Trump, they need
someone to speak up and that they can rally around,
and that person is not emerged other than the jasmine
crockets and the aocs.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
And I would argue just me personally, and I can
say this about the woman.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yeah, a man, because I think we're still such an
old fashioned society that there have to be some men
involved that. You know, there are a lot of these dynamic,
incredible women for stem on board, but.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
You do need at least a guy.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
There's a part of it because what Democrats are losing
our men who Trump makes them feel power and doing
them harm when he's hurting their daughters, hurting their sons,
making potentially them have to go to war.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Maybe they'll be a draft. We don't know what an
Iran war would look like.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Even when he's hurting them, he makes them feel powerful
and Democrats, I think the reason those thirty five million
or seventy million didn't come forward and march on No
King's Day. Is Democrats at this moment feel very powerless.
They feel very they.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Are in moral and emotional retreat.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
And I think Tamala's laws hit people in a way
that I think they haven't fully processed. I think people
are depressed by it. I think people feel that they
can't beat Trump. He seems so all powerful, like he
could do whatever he wants. He rolls over the Constitution,
he rolls over the Congress. People don't and telling them
that twenty twenty six can fix it and that they
can just vote again. He's going to work because they

(49:48):
already did that. And so I think Democrats need a
different argument. And it's not just Democrats. The Working Families
Party exist. There are other people besides. And don't say,
Jill Stein that lady is a political cicado. Oh no
years to screw up elections. But Working Families is not
like that. They actually partner with Democrats. The reality is
Democrats need a message that's simple and coherent and how

(50:10):
we can stop this. How can we stop ice from
snatching people off the street, How can we stop Trump
from put creating tariffs that make my life even more unaffordable?
How can we stop him from sending my son and
daughter to war? How can we stop him from putting
Confederate names back on the military basis in this country,
so that we have to, you know, lawd traders every

(50:31):
time we speak the name of a United States Air
base or a United States Army base. How can we
stop it? And Democrats need a coherent answer to how.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Can we stop it?

Speaker 1 (50:41):
What is our plan? And it can be voting, and
how can we inspire you, inspire you? You know, my
former senior producer, Robert Delager keeps telling me to stop
liking Lord of the Rings because apparently it's.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Super fascist and it's like a fashion. But what I
loved about Lord of the.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Rings is that it's an army of little you know,
hobbits who are too far tall, human wizards and all
sorts of creatures from all around.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Well, let's say woke diverse for.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
First force, a diverse force that comes together and they
have nothing, They have no weapons that can stop mortor
they don't have the powers of the other side other
than their wizard. But they still come together. But they're inspired.
And those speeches. If you watch like Lord of the Rings,
there's some of the most inspiring speeches that you've ever
seen in a movie.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Democrats need to give that speech.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
What is that rallying, rallying cry, that message that's going
to inspire people to say we can beat this guy.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
This guy is not unstoppable. He is not a god.
Donald Trump is not all powerful. He can be beaten.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
What is that inspiring message and who can deliver it
in a way that finally gets our side to fight.
Because you cannot outlast fascism, you can and must fight it,
and you cannot beat it without a fight.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
I have been making a lot of references to Gondor
this week, so you know, but there isn't going to
be a return of the king that you're going to
have to do.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
I mean this.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
We are up against an army of orcs right singlely purposed,
one direction, with a few leaders here and there, Which
brings me to my last question and again an action item.
If you know Kamala Harris, you know Barack Obama and

(52:37):
Michelle Obama.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
You've met these people. You you could probably communicate with them.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
Will perhaps you and I I don't think the Obama's
they she don't needs to be my best friend.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
I don't know wh why she's playing. She's supposed to
be my best sie. You better come hang out with me, girl.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
Oh well, I think for the sake of American democracy, which,
by the way, most of the people that I've been
interacting with, Marcus Flowers, Tara Stepmeyer, you know, these other
people who have created political action committees, I've noticed they're
all black, and.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
They're really really angry.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
About what's going on, and they really really want to
save this.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
You know, and not one of the waffles about, well.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
I don't you know, people are treating me badly, which
is why the whole Ken Martin thing rubbed me completely wrong.
And I really do think Michael Steele should run for
chair of the DMC.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
You'd win, but or I could run. But my ask
here is this.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
The Republicans meet regularly with Seapack and other major conferences
or secret conclaves themselves, and they get their ideological ducks
in a row.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
They communicate, they plan, they strategize.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
Okay, are we going to have to have like a
secret edgar Town conference where you know, the high elders
of the African American community And I'm looking at you,
Kamala Harris Barack Obama, Michelle Obama gets together with some
of the you know, some of the.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
People who really take this seriously. Me you even will
invite Eddy Cloud. He's always a voice of reason. Right,
We'll have one academic and freaking get these people back
out to speak.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
If I swear to God, I know Barack Obamas wants
to maintain the dignity Sorry my camera shaking because I'm
founding the table. Wants to maintain the dignity of a
former president.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Right. You know who my favorite president was.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Of all the presidents, it was George Washington one because
he was a battle commander.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Two he's a battle.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Commander that understood when it was time to turn that
shit off and turn governing on and to craft the
American experiment. And when he gave his speech at Newburgh
when the army was essentially saying, hey, you know they're
not paying us, so if you get us paid, we'll
overthrow Congress and make you a king. Right, I mean

(55:18):
the entire funtinental army was ready to form and make
him a king.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
He pulled out the General Milli speech.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
The first version of the General Milli Speech, which was
we didn't just fight that war to be to put
back into power what this struggle was all about, even
with me, you know. And he did it in a
very polite way. I'm flattered that you wanted me to
be a king. And he talked them back into common sense.

(55:49):
If we need a strong person, why not fucking form
the Avengers here right, call the Avengers. Get us all
into one place. I'm willing to go on the ferry
out to Edwardstown and Martha's Vineyard and meet the Obamas
and all the rest of whoever we want the elders
to be, and.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
For God's sakes, get a.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Powerful, strong, vocal alliance that says enough, we have reached
our fucking limit, and to say we're gonna combat you
on every step this point onward.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
We're gonna mobilize the nation against you.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
If we have to shut this country down to save it,
we're gonna do it this short of civil lore.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Because you were Paul.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
My last book was called they want to kill Americans,
and that they was our Trump supporting neighbors. And now
they have a secret police. They literally have a g
hind stats Politzai. I've Gestapo the ice out there running
around snatching people off the streets.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
With impunity.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
According to that, when are these senior people and I'm
talking to you, Kamala Harris, I'm talking to you, Barah Obama.
I'm talking to you, missus Obama even though you're not
a politician, you know, and Oprah call you out to
whoever you are. We've got to form an alliance. And
it doesn't require one person to be in charge. It

(57:15):
requires literally the Avengers to be you know, to assemble
and to call a dead stop in a massive press
conference and harness the energy of the seventy six.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Million people that didn't vote for Trump and.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
Then the eighty million people who didn't vote at all
and explain to them what's.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Going on now.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
I just find it absolutely fascinating that, you know, my
supposed intelligence based podcast, I would be talking about you
Ganda under Edyamine, or Burundi or some other country run
by a dictator the way I have to speak about
the United States now. When I flew back from Greenland,

(57:59):
which by the way, I've thrown a monkey wrench into
their plans to invade.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
I got the Danes to arm the country. Another podcast
about that.

Speaker 4 (58:07):
Really, I called the Prime Minister out on their largest
national TV show and said, if I were you, I
would put armed troops there as exercises while they arrived
last week. We can't seem to do that here. We
can't seem to save ourselves here. And when I flew
back into JFK, my nexus didn't work, My global entry

(58:29):
didn't work. And I kept thinking, these people are going
to start using these systems against US. Peter Tele, if
Trump passes jd Vance, Peter Tele and all the rest
of them are going to use everything that we have
ever established against us. We're already at the point where
they were using a snowden like system. They're flying UAV

(58:52):
reconnaissance flights over Los Angeles that are doing cell phone
collection NSA would never do, but they're using a customs
drone to do it.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Right.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
When are we going to say this is enough or
We're just going to go down and I'm going to
be the last guy bailing out the boat?

Speaker 1 (59:09):
I mean what I would say to that, And Malcolm
is you know when I think about you know, Poland
during its uh the sort of worst years, Like Valessa
was not a politician, he was a labor leader. I
think about Russia and Alexey Navalney was not a politician.
Either he was a journalist and he had a media company.

(59:30):
Some of them were you know Vladimir uh that we
always had.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
On our show. I'm going to Cara Murza, he's actually
a politician.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Or you think about Nelson Mandela, who was you know,
the son of a chief. He wasn't a politician at all.
And I think that the risk we run is that
we count too much on and depend too much on
politicians to save us from this mess. It's what the
Democrats are doing to expect Barack Obama or Kamala Harris
to get us out of this. They are politicians and

(01:00:01):
their job is to do politics. It is our job,
as the American people to find ourselves a leader. Doctor
King was not a politician, and he created a second
American revolution, and not one led by you know, you know,
all all glory or whatever to George Washington.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
But he did wear his slaves teeth in his mouth,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Of course, so as.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
I'm not a fan, but when I think about revolutionary
leaders like Malcolm X, I think about the Black Panthers.
They didn't wait for some politicians in California to feed
children breakfast.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
They did it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
They gave food when they knew they were hungry. You know,
I think about some of the greatest leaders. I think
about Mega Evers, not a politician, while he just understood
that the people in the Mississippi Delta needed to feel free,
they needed to feel free to speak, they needed to
feel free to object, they needed enough food to eat,
they needed resources, and so he just provided them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
And so I think what we have to do is,
I don't think we.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Need to call on Oprah or Obama or missus Obama
or Kamma or anyone else to save us. I think
we need to look inward in our communities and be
our own saviors and figure out in your neighborhood, in
your family, on your block, in your Facebook group, in
your Instagram group, in your clubs, in your sorority, in
your chapter, what are you doing to bring together your group,

(01:01:25):
your friends, your family, to save them from fascism, to
teach them how to survive this. Each of us has
to be our own leader, and each of us can
be that charismatic leader in our circles. And if we
each do that, then eventually I think we will come together.

(01:01:46):
There will be a national movement against this man. He's
bankrupting this country. He's going to put us in a
war that nobody wants, even Maga people don't want. And
his incompetence, his foolishness, his cartoonishness, his incompetent team, the
joke that they are, the embarrassment that they are. No
member of the United States Military could be proud to

(01:02:08):
stand by Pete hag Seth. He doesn't make any of
us feel proud. He's an embarrassment. Telcy Gabbert is an embarrassment.
You know, Christin Nom is a dog killing embarrassment. She
looks like a crown in her Barbie costume standing in
front of half naked prisoners in El Salvador. These people
are kidnappers. They're cruel, they're ugly, they're vicious, they're mean.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
But they're also stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
And I think Americans get good and sick of it,
just like every country where there's a dictator and people
get tired of it, we will end it. And so
the reality is Donald Trump be playing a game with
limited time because the American people are not fools, and
even if we are fooled, we are not fools. And
eventually of our little revolutions will be one revolution, and

(01:02:57):
he will be done. I just hope that if and
when the opposition ever gets controlled again, they don't make
the same mistake. For the time, we should have punished
the Confederates. They should have been allowed back into public
life after what they did to millions of African people.
They should have never been allowed to come back after
being traders. They should have never been able to stand

(01:03:19):
up to get their name on army bases. They should
have been punished. And if Donald Trump and his fools
are eventually pushed out of power, the Democrats should not
be nice. The Democrats should make sure none of them
can ever survive and an Article three of the fourteenth
Amendment refutation of their ability to serve in public office.

(01:03:39):
None of them should ever be allowed to. They should
off of the boards they sit on. They should not
be allowed to quietly become college presidents. They should be
run out of public life. What they've done to this
country is savage, it's wrong, it is an abomination, and
we will not hopefully make the same mistake twice of
Democrats being too nice to deal with fascism.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
We should be dealt with.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Well there, well, thank you so much for that, You know,
I really think that your your concept is great.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
I like the ground level game. This is we're in
long ball, and I think we need to hit a triple.
I we think we need to hit one right. And
now you know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
And I am waiting for the fucking writers of Rohan speech. Okay,
and if I got to write it myself. I mean,
I've been getting pretty shouty these days.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
Normally I like to, you know, be the cooling saucer
of intelligence, thought and wisdom.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
But I've reached my limit as a Philadelphian.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
I mean, I was just we were there for the
No Kings protests and you know, we did a actually
we did a you know, an am Joy version of
a two hour show or three hour show during the
protest with Marcus Flowers and where we just sat and
analyzed what's going on and the things that we're seeing.

(01:04:57):
And as two veterans, we have completely different take on it. However,
the things that I do see, I mean, we saw
great protests. Everyone's coming out for every protest because people
have reached their limit. And that, by the way, is
the motto of Fa Fo.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
Pac, which is we the people f and dare you?

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
So you know, we're I call us the deadpool of
political action committees, right, you know, so uh, but we
think that people need to get louder, people need to
get to speak more, frankly, and I am certainly of
a mind now that that you know, I'm looking.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
For those leaders who were leaders.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
To stand up and point out that we you know,
it's time to move. And that's why I think that
you know, missus errors if you'd like, you know, you'd
like to call me over.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
And I think people say this, oh, one last thing.

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
The African American community in there with we're withdrawing from
engaging in this fight.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Done. I'm done with that. I'm done with that. Okay,
you had your little game, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
You you you sat out two major protests. And I
had a young brother come up to me and it's
on my YouTube channel when he came up.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
And goes, what what's the purpose of this? You know?

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
And I go, I had to explain it to him,
and I go, you know, your life yours.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
You're wearing black thingernail pols. Your life is.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
Endanger you, right, you more than me because you're young,
you're black, and you don't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Even know why.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
There's two hundred thousand people on Benjamin Franklin Parkway, and
I said, you are standing into danger.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
You need to engage and you need to understand that
what your way of life chillax in hanging out on
a fifty second street.

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
It could be over very quickly because we're next right,
we're people of color. They're going for all of them,
you know, and they're doing this campaign right now. But
I do need to see leaders stand up and I
need to see the African American community stop this game

(01:07:12):
of we did enough. Ninety two percent of the women voted.
We're not going to help out in the protests anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Now, I will say, do you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Think I get why African Americans are saying, y'all areun
get it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
We did it, had a six month vacation, but this
isn't a vacation.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
I think that people are still processing the loss and
the betrayal quite frankly of women of fellow women, white
women who still voted for the Handmaid's Tale that will
destroy them, and their daughters of Latino men who, by
the way, they didn't The majority majority of Latinos did
not vote for Trump.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
That is not.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
It was a percentage of Latino men who did vote
in the majority for Trump, But certainly none of the
undocumented people who are being stashed off the street voted for.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
T They can't vote. And so I too believe that
we have to re engage.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
But I can understand why black folks are, like, Am
I going to be in the streets where we're the
biggest target.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
Probably not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
But there are other ways to serve, and there are
other ways to protest. And so I think black people
have carried the weight to the moral weight of this
country since sixteen nineteen. We've been at the center of
every movement for positive change. We're the reason that y'all
have free public school.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
We've done all that we can to make this a
moral and better country and to make it a more
perfect union. And we are tired, and we're tired of y'all.
We're tired of people taking advantage of our movements and
then leaving us behind when they achieve what we built
for them. We built this country for free. We built
you a democracy, and now you don't want to even
let us participate in it. And now you want to

(01:08:47):
deport all of the brown people with what to put
us back in the fields.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
No, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
And so I think black people have a moral commentary
to make, including on our allies, and I think white Americans,
you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Pick this president. This was your choice.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
A majority of you, your cousins, your uncles, your family,
y'all put them in office.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
You need to fight them. You need to be outfront.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
You need to put your bodies out front, and you
need to let us be the second chair. We will
be second chair, but y'all got to be first chair.
This is a moral moment, and it's a moral moment
to be honest for white America because you all are
the only group, the only group that has in a majority,
including white women, voted for Republicans consistently in every election

(01:09:28):
since the nineteen sixties. You did that because black people
got civil rights, and you now have to reckon with
your choices.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
These are not our choices.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Yes, some black people are from some black people who
we didn't pay attention and thought he was funny or whatever,
thought they were going to get a check.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Yeah, they voted for.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Him, but it was mostly you all. And so it
is not our responsibility to morally lead you anymore. We
are not your nurse maids. We are not your mama
were not your auntie. This is not the sixties.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
We are not going to baby you and carry you anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
If America wants to be made great, if it wants
to be made better, if it wants to be a
more perfect union, it's majority, its current majority, must decide
that they've had enough.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
And I believe that at.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
A certain point, even white Americans who like the idea
of maintaining their social status at the top of the
pyramid of the United States public in the United States
sort of society, even they, at a certain point will
be tired of the clown show.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
And when they're tired of.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
It, like every country in the world, when people get
sick of it, they will overthrow this dictatorship. I have
full confidence that eventually people will get tired of him,
tired of this, tired of MAGA. But it isn't going
to be Black people who are responsible, and we will
not be held responsible for getting rid of this. You
get rid of it, you figure it out, and we'll
be there in second chair to support you, because we

(01:10:47):
too do not want to live this way. But by
the way, y'all already have us living in Project twenty
twenty five in Texas and Arkansas and Tennessee and Texas.
You got us living in every red state in Project
twenty twenty five. We already know what this is and
we know how to survive it, y'all to learn how
to provide fascism, not us.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
We already live in fascism because of you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Okay, well, okay, you explained it well, thank you Malcolm.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
On your phone.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
No one had ever explained it like that. So thank
you so much for coming. You know, I love you,
I miss you, and if you want to talk you around,
you're gonna have to invite me on your podcast, because
let's do it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
I had questions here and you covered them all.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
So thank you so much, and I look forward to
seeing you again. Oh that was an incredible interview and
I learned so much. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
The funny thing is I worked.

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
With her for years, but it was always me imparting
the data, right, the intelligence data, and watched her for
years on MSNBC.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
When you speak to her, though, it's just.

Speaker 4 (01:11:56):
Really I get a completely different personal her insights about
JD Vance. If you've got to admit, no one has
been telling you these things. So thank you for coming
to this week's edition of Black Man's Spy. Pick it up,
follow us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, substack at Malcolm Nance

(01:12:18):
dot substack dot com. I'm on Blue Sky. I'm also
doing chatter now on Blue Sky. That's their version of
Twitter spaces on. Occasionally you'll find me on Twitter slash
x pontificating on those spaces, but mainly you're gonna find
me right here where you found me. So thank you
for coming to this week's edition. Next week's is going

(01:12:40):
to be way more interesting. No it's not. Nothing's going
to be more in to figure what I did today,
So thanks, come back next week and listen

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
And join us on black Man Spy