October 21, 2024 • 28 mins
S6E5 – A moral dilemma for the ages. Do you take action to sacrifice a few, or do you do nothing that will kill many? Watch this episode to find out what Nida will decide as it turns into a race against time. If faced with this dilemma, I know rationally what needs to happen, but when actions are needed, could I do it? Could you?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Podcast join host Hoho as he discusses the rimiting Netflix
original series Black Mirror. Now Here he is Hoo hoo hoo.
We're broadcasting from the Park Studio. Welcome to Black Mirror
Podcast and as always, I'm your host, ho Ho. So,
(00:35):
how y'all's doing. I hope you're doing good. I really do,
because today we're going to be talking about the season finale,
episode five, Season six, titled Demon seventy nine. Now, before
we get into it, I gotta say spoiler alert. We
are going to be talking about the episode, so if
(00:56):
you haven't watched it yet, please head on over to
Netflix check out that episode Demon seventy nine, and then
come back over for a listency and joining the conversation.
Have a good time with it. Definitely. Indeed, Now let's
go ahead and get into it. But you know, we
(01:19):
are going to be talking about the episode, but not
a whole heck of a lot. I'm not going to
spend a lot of time on that. What I want
to talk about instead is the psychological dilemma that they
bring up in this episode. And you know, they they
really did a good job bringing this dilemma up, didn't they.
I mean, they did a fantastic job they really did. Now,
(01:44):
I got admit something to you. This episode wasn't exactly
what I expected, I guess you can say. I mean,
I really thought that with the title, it would be
a little bit more darker than what it was, and
it really wasn't, you know. But don't get me wrong.
They did a really good job doing the episode. I
was just expecting a little bit darker, you know, especially
(02:08):
in the scene where the demon actually shows up and
you see him for the first time. But there was
I mean, like that was dark. You know. I really
wish they would have lightened that up a little bit
so that this way we can see what the demon
really looked like, you know, I mean we get a
hint of it, and you know, he looks typical demon
fashion of what you would expect. But I just I
(02:30):
wish that the lights were a little brighter so I
can really get a good idea of what he looked like.
But you know, that part kind of it kind of
disappointed me. It really did. Another aspect of it that
I wish that they did was, you know, I kind
of was figuring that they would go the way of
(02:53):
you know, well, they had a demon in there, you know.
And I was halfway expecting them to throw an angel
in there too, to kind of have that good versus
evil demon and an angel type of a showdown, and
they didn't do that. Now, Now, don't get me wrong,
there's there is that struggle of good and evil, but
it's more of an internal struggle that the main character, Nita. Yeah,
(03:22):
Nita has to has to fight within herself, you know,
she has to fight her own moral compass, you know.
And and that how they ended up doing it. The
moral struggle, the dilemma that they went ahead and they
attacked in this episode. It wouldn't have worked if they
throw if they threw an angel in there, it just
it just wouldn't have worked, not the same, you know.
(03:45):
But what is that moral dilemma? Well, in the episode
and whenever the demon Gap I think was his name,
Yep Gap, when the demon you know, made contact with Nita,
(04:06):
he and this is of course once he hit, once
he has been I guess you can say, for for
a lack of better term, you know, set free. You know,
he presents her with the very real dilemma, a choice
if you will, and you know this choice in a
matter of speaking, I got to be honest with you,
(04:27):
It kind of reminded me of you know how the
demons in you know, Jim Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files,
the Order of the Black and Denarian Denarius, you know
how they kind of did things a little bit. It
kind of reminded me of that that whole you know,
(04:47):
they're they're stuck in an a talisman and somebody has
to touch it in order for them to gain access
into that person, but they have to let you in.
And I thought that, I thought that aspect that it
kind of reminded me a little bit of that, and
I thought that was still an interesting way to do it.
How they did it, you know, it played out very well,
it really did. But the choice that he presented her
(05:12):
it hit me. I mean it really did. It hit
me because you know, it was the the do nothing
and there is an apocalyptic event, because what what the
demon told her to do was sacrifice three people in
(05:33):
three days, each having to be done before midnight in
order to stop the apocalypse. And if she is able
to do that, then you know, the demon can help
her and no apocalypse, and of which case that's I
(05:55):
was like, wow, you know, I mean, that's that's a
that is a moral dilemma if I have ever seen
one ever, you know, because Okay, so I'm I'm a
fan of psychology, you know, I like psychology. I'm not
a psychic, maybe a psycho, I'm you know, I'm not
a psychiatrist by any stretch of the imagination. But those
(06:18):
type of things intrigued me, and they have for a
very long time, they really have. And you know, I
don't know if this is like basically something that they
do with people that go into the CIA, or whether
it's something that you know, they do with people going
into you know, into the FBI, but they pose a
question to them, okay, and and kind of I guess
(06:41):
what they're trying to measure is, you know, whether or
not somebody's a psychopath and or different things of that nature.
Because it truly is a hard dilemma. It is a
moral dilemma, and it really is a difficult one. You know.
The kind of the how they play it out is
(07:02):
you got a train barreling down the tracks, okay, and
if you do nothing, then the train will stay on
the tracks that it's on and it will run into
you know, take your pick a school bus full of children,
a you know, a vehicle filled with a family of people,
(07:24):
you know, for sake people however many want to throw
in there. Or you have the choice to you know,
grab a hold of the handle and turn it to
where the train goes down a different set of tracks,
and of which case tied on those tracks is or
on the tracks is a vehicle with one individual in it.
(07:46):
And so your moral dilemma is do you make the
choice to do nothing and kill a bustload of children,
or do you take action, change the tracks that the
train is going to go down and kill one person.
That's the moral dilemma. Now, if you're anything like me,
(08:11):
you know, whenever I kind of played that mental game
within my own head, and this happened long before I
seen this episode. But when you play that, you know,
play that game in your own head, I mean the
rational aspect of your mind, the logic portion of your
brain is like absolutely, you know, you take action, you
(08:33):
kill the one, the one person dies, and you save
the many. So you know, you sacrifice the few to
save the many. And that was the moral you know,
the moral dilemma that the main character Nita was posed with.
You know, that's what it amounted to. It sacrifice the
few to save the mini. And it was done like
(08:57):
more or less in the same way, because it was
a dude, nothing and you know, millions of people die
or you know, you do what you need to do.
You sacrifice the three people on the three days, and
then all is well, apocalypse doesn't happen, you know, and
(09:18):
moral dilemma, holy crap. But I tell you what though,
you know, like I was saying, the rational mind, it's like,
oh yeah, absolutely, you know, you sacrificed a few for
you know, to save the many, and that's of course
what you do. But and here's the thing, and this
is how they you know, one of the things about
this episode that they do brilliantly is she struggles with it,
(09:44):
doesn't she. I mean, she really really struggles with it
so much to where, you know, it's like the first
person that she ended up killing it was the demon
had to show her who the person was before she
can even remotely become okay with it. And then the
(10:05):
second person was, you know, a murderer. The third person
was his brother, and that was more more of a
you know, save yourself to take care of that, which
ended up playing on her behalf, because if she hadn't
done that, then you know, apocalypse would not have been avoided.
(10:28):
And then she went out and she changed during the
process of this, right, I mean, how could how could
doing something like this not change you? And it did,
I mean it very much, because she went from being
a you know, being a nice kind of quiet. I
don't want to say timid, but I mean she was
(10:49):
definitely quiet. She was a helpful person, but she was
she was just quiet. She did her job. I mean, granted,
she fantasized about doing some stuff, and I cheered a
little bit, you know, whenever she took her her coworker's head,
her face, whenever she was being all rude and mean
(11:10):
and whatnot, and just took it and smashed it into
the display case, breaking the glass, getting cutting all cutting
her face all up. I was like, yes, you know,
a little bit of cheering going on, I got, admit.
So she had that darkness in her, she really did,
but it wasn't something that she acted upon her. At least,
(11:30):
we don't get the hint of that in this episode.
We don't get that, you know, we don't get that hint.
We don't get that it just it doesn't seem like her.
She's more passive aggression. I guess she can say maybe.
I don't know, but it was it changed her, you know,
(11:50):
because it took something away from her and in a
matter of speaking, and I don't know if it did,
I can't really say either way, but I don't think
she even realized what was going to happen. I don't
think she was prepared for that aspect of it, how
much it was actually going to change her. And it
seemed like it really did, you know, It really seemed
(12:15):
like it changed who she was because you know, like
once she got to a point to where she was
a little bit more comfortable with what she was doing,
you know, not that you know it's it was also
almost an aspect of it, at least at the end,
with the with the last person that she decided to
sacrifice for for the greater good. It was almost that
(12:40):
Hitler type of a question, you know. I mean if
you heard that one post, you know, if if you
were able to go back in time, knowing what you
know about you know, Hitler and with with all the
people that of deaths that he was he would orchestrate,
would you go back and kill baby you know, baby
(13:02):
baby Hitler, you know, and of which case you would
say that, no, absolutely not, you wouldn't do it because
it's a baby. Baby Hitler is innocent. But at the
same time, you also know that in the future he's
going to do some really, really bad stuff. At this point,
he hasn't he hasn't orchestrated anything, his decisions hasn't changed anything.
(13:26):
But yet you still have that same type of moral dilemma,
and that when she ends up going through as well.
So I mean, it's not only the moral dilemma of
you know, saving sacrificing the few to save the many.
It was also the you know, in a matter of speaking,
it was it was the the baby Hitler moral dilemma.
(13:50):
And by the time she got to the baby Hitler
moral dilemma, it was very much I mean like it
was already changing her. It was already you know, but
she chose the the baby Hitler. In this case, it
was a Michael smart As who it was a politician
(14:11):
that was going to orchestrate, to basically orchestrate the death
of many people, and she was like, I choose him
as the third and final sacrifice, you know, And it
It was very telling and I wasn't surprised whenever I
seen this, But the demon tried to talk her out
of it. It's like, no, you know, my you know,
(14:32):
the Home office is going to be you know, kind
of upset about this one because you know, although Michael
Smart has not killed anybody, which disqualifies them from you know,
counting as one of the sacrifices, it was. He's he's
a team player, you know. They want to keep him
(14:52):
in play. They don't want to they don't want him
to be sacrificed because they don't really consider that a sacrifice,
you know. But she's like, oh no, this is who
I'm doing. This is how it's going to happen. He's
not disqualified. This is what's going to happen. And you know,
again this ordeal changed her, and the change really happened
(15:19):
whenever for her own safety she had to sacrifice. Well,
she didn't know it was a sacrifice at the time,
you know, or at least that wasn't her motivation behind it.
But Keith, the person who murdered his wife, you know,
the victim number two. She didn't know that that wouldn't
(15:42):
count in her favor. Something that we learned after the fact.
And then Keith's brother Chris shows up and you know,
again for her own safety, so that this way she
wouldn't be spotted at the scene of a crime. She
killed him too, which was a sacrifice that counted in
(16:05):
her favor, and you know, thankfully for her and for
you know, everybody else. I guess you can say he
died just before midnight, like he died, took his last breath,
and then bammed the clock strikes twelve, and it was
it was wow. She she got lucky on that one,
didn't she She did. But this episode having two separate,
(16:27):
very big, significant psychological plays of a moral dilemma with
sacrifice in the few to save the many, and then
the question of baby Hitler, It's like, wow, I mean,
(16:49):
I got admit, I wasn't quite prepared for that. It
wasn't something that I was expecting. It really wasn't. I
was expecting a different type of a show, you know,
I was. I was expecting something a little bit more dark,
and you know, they kind of snuck these moral dilemmas
in on you. I mean, I didn't really see him
(17:09):
coming at first. It wasn't until after the fact that
I that I was able to kind of think about
the episode a little bit more that I was really like, oh,
holy cow, they got me because I didn't see it coming.
You know. Again, it wasn't until after the fact that
I put two and two together and it was like, Wow,
(17:29):
they snuck that one in on me. I was impressed.
I really was. And so with the first moral dilemma,
you know, the sacrificing the few to save the many.
You know, now, like I was saying earlier, the rational mind,
the logical mind knows what decision I would, I would
(17:54):
I would make. I would have to make this decision,
you know, I I know and I understand that I would.
And that's the logical rational mind. And you know that
the caveat in there is you have no option, see right,
You can't sacrifice yourself. And it's one of these two scenarios.
(18:16):
You know, either it's the bus or it's the you know,
the bus full of children or a single individual. There
is no option, see you know, it's either do nothing,
which is making a choice and a lot of people die,
or do something act You're taking physical responsibility for the
(18:37):
decision that you are making. And one person, you know,
there is no option, see, and that's always a caveat
that's in this type of a scenario, that's the caveat,
and that was the caveat in this episode. That's the
caveat that Nita had to decide. She had to do that.
(18:59):
So the rational mind, I know what decision I at
least should make. The question is would I be able
to make it? You know, because that really is the question,
isn't it. I mean it's yes, it's easy to say,
(19:21):
you know, as a hypothetical, that this is what you
would do. It's really easy to say that. You know everybody,
you know, everybody has a plan until they get punched
in the face. You know, that's something that you know,
Mike Tyson says about his boxing career. You know, everybody's
got a plan until they get pushed in the face.
And I just throws the plan right out of the water.
So yeah, my rational logical mind knows that this is
(19:43):
the way to go. However, would you actually be able
to do it? And I can't answer that one. I mean,
I gotta be honest with you, I couldn't. I can't
answer that. It be hard, you know, it really would
And would I walk away from that unscathed mentally emotionally,
(20:08):
how you know would I be able to walk away
from that unscathed? And I don't think I would, you know,
I really don't. I mean, I don't. I don't know
as if I would fare any better than what Nita did.
I don't see how anybody could walk away from that unscathed,
because either way you look at it, whether it's through
(20:33):
cowardice and doing nothing that a lot of people die,
or whether it be through your own hands somebody else
that you're responsible for somebody's death, either way you look
at it, you know it's almost one of them things
that there's no right answer, you know what I mean?
But again, the rational mind, yes, I can rationalize that
(20:55):
it makes sense, and that's that's exactly what I know
I would do, however, or at least I know I
should do. However it would change me. And I don't know,
as if, I don't know what type of decision I
would make on that one. I really don't. I don't.
I man moral dilemma, holy crab, because that's where the
(21:19):
rubber beats the road, right. It's one thing to have
the theory, the thought exercise. It's another to actually have
to do it. Wow. And then so is that something
that you think you would be able to do? Do
you think you would do it any different than how
(21:40):
Nita did it? You know, if you were pose with
that same question, the sacrificing of the few to save
the many? Do you you know? One, which do you
think would be the right way to go? And two
would you be able to do it? And like I
(22:00):
said before, there is no option. See which would you
be able to do? Let me know. I'm curious, I
really am, you know, Send me an email. Ho Ho
at the Black Mirror podcast or Black Mirror podcast dot com.
Send me an email because I'm interested. I want to
know these things I really do. And then moral dilimma
number two, the baby Hitler dilimma, because this is kind
(22:23):
of okay, this is how it plays out with me,
all right, because it's like, yes, the rational mind knows
that going, you know, it knows the atrocities that Hitler committed,
knows what he did, knows that he basically tried to
exterminate an entire group of people. You know, the Holocaust
(22:47):
was an ugly thing, it really was, and it's hard
to grasp the true impact that it had until you
go to to some of these places and you see
you know, the Museum of It, you know, I mean
it puts it I've never been, but from what I've
(23:08):
heard of people describing it that it puts a whole
new depth of reality into for you, you know, I mean,
it really changes your perspective on it, you know. And
so going back in time, the rational mind knows that, yeah,
this is a person whom will do all these things.
It's not a question. You know, it's not a question,
(23:32):
it's an answer. You've lived the future, You've experienced the future.
You know that this is what he's going to do. However,
you book, you go back in time to baby Hitler.
Baby Hitler isn't guilty of anything. Baby Hitler hasn't done anything.
(23:52):
We're talking like, you know, we'll go with like three,
between three and five years old, Okay, old enough to
walk around. You know, he's starting to show his personality,
but he's still a kid. He's still a young child.
(24:15):
He's still innocent of the atrocities that he will commit
later on down the road. Would you be able to
do it? Yeah, rationally, you know what the correct answer
would be. Logically, you know what the right move is
(24:36):
to be. But when push comes to shove, when you're
actually forced to take action, do nothing. Many people die
or the sacrifice of one, but you're the one that
(24:56):
has to act on that. Wow. Again, I don't know
because the baby hasn't done anything wrong yet. I mean,
these are moral dilemmas huge, and Nita had to face
two of some of the hardest ones to face, right,
(25:19):
I mean, Wow, dude, this episode caught me by surprise.
It really did, because those moral dilemma things, they caught
me off guard. I wasn't expecting it. Holy crap. It
was a good episode, you know. I was expecting something different.
I wished it would have been a little darker than
what it was. But they got their point across, didn't they.
(25:44):
So let me know what you think. You know, how
logical and rational are you? Do you think you would
be able to do it? Do you not? Or maybe,
considering the topic, maybe you should just keep your mouth shut.
I don't know, but either way you look at it,
let me know. Send me an email at ho Ho
at the at Hoho at Black Mirror podcast dot com.
(26:09):
Let me know what you would do. Either way. I'm
curious I want to know anyway. You know, I appreciate
y'all stopping by taking a list, and I really do.
I appreciate each and every one of you. It means
a lot to me, it really does. So with this
being the season finale in two to three weeks, I'm
going to be doing a recap, talking about the season
(26:30):
in its entirety and even trying to come up with,
you know, my favorite episode, my top two, maybe a
ranking of all of them, whichever the case may be.
So that was going to be getting released in the
next two to three weeks. And I also have some
good news. They are releasing a season seven sometime in
(26:54):
twenty twenty five. I'm not really sure what the day
is of when they plan on releasing it. I don't
know how far into production they are. I really didn't
read that much into it, and so far, Charlie Booker
has been pretty quiet on things, and so quiet in fact,
the only things that we know about season seven is
that they plan on doing a USS Callister sequel. That
(27:20):
ought to be interesting. I really did enjoy that episode.
And we have a list of actors that are going
to be appearing in season seven other than that they've
been pretty quiet about it, so I'm excited to see
what they come up with. I'll be waiting for whenever
season seven releases, and holy col Yeah, I'm looking forward
(27:40):
to it, I really am. But we'll be talking about
that kind of stuff as well, going through the different
actors and you know, maybe what we can expect in
the next season. But until then, y'alls have yourself a
good one. Thank you for stopping by, and I will
see you in the next one. Thank you for listening
(28:04):
to the Black Mirror podcast. If you would like to
join the conversation, you can comment on this episode a
spreaker dot com or go to the ho host show
dot com, Forward, slash form, and the discussion board for
this s
Podcast join host Hoho as he discusses the rimiting Netflix
original series Black Mirror. Now Here he is Hoo hoo hoo.
We're broadcasting from the Park Studio. Welcome to Black Mirror
Podcast and as always, I'm your host, ho Ho. So,
(00:35):
how y'all's doing. I hope you're doing good. I really do,
because today we're going to be talking about the season finale,
episode five, Season six, titled Demon seventy nine. Now, before
we get into it, I gotta say spoiler alert. We
are going to be talking about the episode, so if
(00:56):
you haven't watched it yet, please head on over to
Netflix check out that episode Demon seventy nine, and then
come back over for a listency and joining the conversation.
Have a good time with it. Definitely. Indeed, Now let's
go ahead and get into it. But you know, we
(01:19):
are going to be talking about the episode, but not
a whole heck of a lot. I'm not going to
spend a lot of time on that. What I want
to talk about instead is the psychological dilemma that they
bring up in this episode. And you know, they they
really did a good job bringing this dilemma up, didn't they.
I mean, they did a fantastic job they really did. Now,
(01:44):
I got admit something to you. This episode wasn't exactly
what I expected, I guess you can say. I mean,
I really thought that with the title, it would be
a little bit more darker than what it was, and
it really wasn't, you know. But don't get me wrong.
They did a really good job doing the episode. I
was just expecting a little bit darker, you know, especially
(02:08):
in the scene where the demon actually shows up and
you see him for the first time. But there was
I mean, like that was dark. You know. I really
wish they would have lightened that up a little bit
so that this way we can see what the demon
really looked like, you know, I mean we get a
hint of it, and you know, he looks typical demon
fashion of what you would expect. But I just I
(02:30):
wish that the lights were a little brighter so I
can really get a good idea of what he looked like.
But you know, that part kind of it kind of
disappointed me. It really did. Another aspect of it that
I wish that they did was, you know, I kind
of was figuring that they would go the way of
(02:53):
you know, well, they had a demon in there, you know.
And I was halfway expecting them to throw an angel
in there too, to kind of have that good versus
evil demon and an angel type of a showdown, and
they didn't do that. Now, Now, don't get me wrong,
there's there is that struggle of good and evil, but
it's more of an internal struggle that the main character, Nita. Yeah,
(03:22):
Nita has to has to fight within herself, you know,
she has to fight her own moral compass, you know.
And and that how they ended up doing it. The
moral struggle, the dilemma that they went ahead and they
attacked in this episode. It wouldn't have worked if they
throw if they threw an angel in there, it just
it just wouldn't have worked, not the same, you know.
(03:45):
But what is that moral dilemma? Well, in the episode
and whenever the demon Gap I think was his name,
Yep Gap, when the demon you know, made contact with Nita,
(04:06):
he and this is of course once he hit, once
he has been I guess you can say, for for
a lack of better term, you know, set free. You know,
he presents her with the very real dilemma, a choice
if you will, and you know this choice in a
matter of speaking, I got to be honest with you,
(04:27):
It kind of reminded me of you know how the
demons in you know, Jim Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files,
the Order of the Black and Denarian Denarius, you know
how they kind of did things a little bit. It
kind of reminded me of that that whole you know,
(04:47):
they're they're stuck in an a talisman and somebody has
to touch it in order for them to gain access
into that person, but they have to let you in.
And I thought that, I thought that aspect that it
kind of reminded me a little bit of that, and
I thought that was still an interesting way to do it.
How they did it, you know, it played out very well,
it really did. But the choice that he presented her
(05:12):
it hit me. I mean it really did. It hit
me because you know, it was the the do nothing
and there is an apocalyptic event, because what what the
demon told her to do was sacrifice three people in
(05:33):
three days, each having to be done before midnight in
order to stop the apocalypse. And if she is able
to do that, then you know, the demon can help
her and no apocalypse, and of which case that's I
(05:55):
was like, wow, you know, I mean, that's that's a
that is a moral dilemma if I have ever seen
one ever, you know, because Okay, so I'm I'm a
fan of psychology, you know, I like psychology. I'm not
a psychic, maybe a psycho, I'm you know, I'm not
a psychiatrist by any stretch of the imagination. But those
(06:18):
type of things intrigued me, and they have for a
very long time, they really have. And you know, I
don't know if this is like basically something that they
do with people that go into the CIA, or whether
it's something that you know, they do with people going
into you know, into the FBI, but they pose a
question to them, okay, and and kind of I guess
(06:41):
what they're trying to measure is, you know, whether or
not somebody's a psychopath and or different things of that nature.
Because it truly is a hard dilemma. It is a
moral dilemma, and it really is a difficult one. You know.
The kind of the how they play it out is
(07:02):
you got a train barreling down the tracks, okay, and
if you do nothing, then the train will stay on
the tracks that it's on and it will run into
you know, take your pick a school bus full of children,
a you know, a vehicle filled with a family of people,
(07:24):
you know, for sake people however many want to throw
in there. Or you have the choice to you know,
grab a hold of the handle and turn it to
where the train goes down a different set of tracks,
and of which case tied on those tracks is or
on the tracks is a vehicle with one individual in it.
(07:46):
And so your moral dilemma is do you make the
choice to do nothing and kill a bustload of children,
or do you take action, change the tracks that the
train is going to go down and kill one person.
That's the moral dilemma. Now, if you're anything like me,
(08:11):
you know, whenever I kind of played that mental game
within my own head, and this happened long before I
seen this episode. But when you play that, you know,
play that game in your own head, I mean the
rational aspect of your mind, the logic portion of your
brain is like absolutely, you know, you take action, you
(08:33):
kill the one, the one person dies, and you save
the many. So you know, you sacrifice the few to
save the many. And that was the moral you know,
the moral dilemma that the main character Nita was posed with.
You know, that's what it amounted to. It sacrifice the
few to save the mini. And it was done like
(08:57):
more or less in the same way, because it was
a dude, nothing and you know, millions of people die
or you know, you do what you need to do.
You sacrifice the three people on the three days, and
then all is well, apocalypse doesn't happen, you know, and
(09:18):
moral dilemma, holy crap. But I tell you what though,
you know, like I was saying, the rational mind, it's like,
oh yeah, absolutely, you know, you sacrificed a few for
you know, to save the many, and that's of course
what you do. But and here's the thing, and this
is how they you know, one of the things about
this episode that they do brilliantly is she struggles with it,
(09:44):
doesn't she. I mean, she really really struggles with it
so much to where, you know, it's like the first
person that she ended up killing it was the demon
had to show her who the person was before she
can even remotely become okay with it. And then the
(10:05):
second person was, you know, a murderer. The third person
was his brother, and that was more more of a
you know, save yourself to take care of that, which
ended up playing on her behalf, because if she hadn't
done that, then you know, apocalypse would not have been avoided.
(10:28):
And then she went out and she changed during the
process of this, right, I mean, how could how could
doing something like this not change you? And it did,
I mean it very much, because she went from being
a you know, being a nice kind of quiet. I
don't want to say timid, but I mean she was
(10:49):
definitely quiet. She was a helpful person, but she was
she was just quiet. She did her job. I mean, granted,
she fantasized about doing some stuff, and I cheered a
little bit, you know, whenever she took her her coworker's head,
her face, whenever she was being all rude and mean
(11:10):
and whatnot, and just took it and smashed it into
the display case, breaking the glass, getting cutting all cutting
her face all up. I was like, yes, you know,
a little bit of cheering going on, I got, admit.
So she had that darkness in her, she really did,
but it wasn't something that she acted upon her. At least,
(11:30):
we don't get the hint of that in this episode.
We don't get that, you know, we don't get that hint.
We don't get that it just it doesn't seem like her.
She's more passive aggression. I guess she can say maybe.
I don't know, but it was it changed her, you know,
(11:50):
because it took something away from her and in a
matter of speaking, and I don't know if it did,
I can't really say either way, but I don't think
she even realized what was going to happen. I don't
think she was prepared for that aspect of it, how
much it was actually going to change her. And it
seemed like it really did, you know, It really seemed
(12:15):
like it changed who she was because you know, like
once she got to a point to where she was
a little bit more comfortable with what she was doing,
you know, not that you know it's it was also
almost an aspect of it, at least at the end,
with the with the last person that she decided to
sacrifice for for the greater good. It was almost that
(12:40):
Hitler type of a question, you know. I mean if
you heard that one post, you know, if if you
were able to go back in time, knowing what you
know about you know, Hitler and with with all the
people that of deaths that he was he would orchestrate,
would you go back and kill baby you know, baby
(13:02):
baby Hitler, you know, and of which case you would
say that, no, absolutely not, you wouldn't do it because
it's a baby. Baby Hitler is innocent. But at the
same time, you also know that in the future he's
going to do some really, really bad stuff. At this point,
he hasn't he hasn't orchestrated anything, his decisions hasn't changed anything.
(13:26):
But yet you still have that same type of moral dilemma,
and that when she ends up going through as well.
So I mean, it's not only the moral dilemma of
you know, saving sacrificing the few to save the many.
It was also the you know, in a matter of speaking,
it was it was the the baby Hitler moral dilemma.
(13:50):
And by the time she got to the baby Hitler
moral dilemma, it was very much I mean like it
was already changing her. It was already you know, but
she chose the the baby Hitler. In this case, it
was a Michael smart As who it was a politician
(14:11):
that was going to orchestrate, to basically orchestrate the death
of many people, and she was like, I choose him
as the third and final sacrifice, you know, And it
It was very telling and I wasn't surprised whenever I
seen this, But the demon tried to talk her out
of it. It's like, no, you know, my you know,
(14:32):
the Home office is going to be you know, kind
of upset about this one because you know, although Michael
Smart has not killed anybody, which disqualifies them from you know,
counting as one of the sacrifices, it was. He's he's
a team player, you know. They want to keep him
(14:52):
in play. They don't want to they don't want him
to be sacrificed because they don't really consider that a sacrifice,
you know. But she's like, oh no, this is who
I'm doing. This is how it's going to happen. He's
not disqualified. This is what's going to happen. And you know,
again this ordeal changed her, and the change really happened
(15:19):
whenever for her own safety she had to sacrifice. Well,
she didn't know it was a sacrifice at the time,
you know, or at least that wasn't her motivation behind it.
But Keith, the person who murdered his wife, you know,
the victim number two. She didn't know that that wouldn't
(15:42):
count in her favor. Something that we learned after the fact.
And then Keith's brother Chris shows up and you know,
again for her own safety, so that this way she
wouldn't be spotted at the scene of a crime. She
killed him too, which was a sacrifice that counted in
(16:05):
her favor, and you know, thankfully for her and for
you know, everybody else. I guess you can say he
died just before midnight, like he died, took his last breath,
and then bammed the clock strikes twelve, and it was
it was wow. She she got lucky on that one,
didn't she She did. But this episode having two separate,
(16:27):
very big, significant psychological plays of a moral dilemma with
sacrifice in the few to save the many, and then
the question of baby Hitler, It's like, wow, I mean,
(16:49):
I got admit, I wasn't quite prepared for that. It
wasn't something that I was expecting. It really wasn't. I
was expecting a different type of a show, you know,
I was. I was expecting something a little bit more dark,
and you know, they kind of snuck these moral dilemmas
in on you. I mean, I didn't really see him
(17:09):
coming at first. It wasn't until after the fact that
I that I was able to kind of think about
the episode a little bit more that I was really like, oh,
holy cow, they got me because I didn't see it coming.
You know. Again, it wasn't until after the fact that
I put two and two together and it was like, Wow,
(17:29):
they snuck that one in on me. I was impressed.
I really was. And so with the first moral dilemma,
you know, the sacrificing the few to save the many.
You know, now, like I was saying earlier, the rational mind,
the logical mind knows what decision I would, I would
(17:54):
I would make. I would have to make this decision,
you know, I I know and I understand that I would.
And that's the logical rational mind. And you know that
the caveat in there is you have no option, see right,
You can't sacrifice yourself. And it's one of these two scenarios.
(18:16):
You know, either it's the bus or it's the you know,
the bus full of children or a single individual. There
is no option, see you know, it's either do nothing,
which is making a choice and a lot of people die,
or do something act You're taking physical responsibility for the
(18:37):
decision that you are making. And one person, you know,
there is no option, see, and that's always a caveat
that's in this type of a scenario, that's the caveat,
and that was the caveat in this episode. That's the
caveat that Nita had to decide. She had to do that.
(18:59):
So the rational mind, I know what decision I at
least should make. The question is would I be able
to make it? You know, because that really is the question,
isn't it. I mean it's yes, it's easy to say,
(19:21):
you know, as a hypothetical, that this is what you
would do. It's really easy to say that. You know everybody,
you know, everybody has a plan until they get punched
in the face. You know, that's something that you know,
Mike Tyson says about his boxing career. You know, everybody's
got a plan until they get pushed in the face.
And I just throws the plan right out of the water.
So yeah, my rational logical mind knows that this is
(19:43):
the way to go. However, would you actually be able
to do it? And I can't answer that one. I mean,
I gotta be honest with you, I couldn't. I can't
answer that. It be hard, you know, it really would
And would I walk away from that unscathed mentally emotionally,
(20:08):
how you know would I be able to walk away
from that unscathed? And I don't think I would, you know,
I really don't. I mean, I don't. I don't know
as if I would fare any better than what Nita did.
I don't see how anybody could walk away from that unscathed,
because either way you look at it, whether it's through
(20:33):
cowardice and doing nothing that a lot of people die,
or whether it be through your own hands somebody else
that you're responsible for somebody's death, either way you look
at it, you know it's almost one of them things
that there's no right answer, you know what I mean?
But again, the rational mind, yes, I can rationalize that
(20:55):
it makes sense, and that's that's exactly what I know
I would do, however, or at least I know I
should do. However it would change me. And I don't know,
as if, I don't know what type of decision I
would make on that one. I really don't. I don't.
I man moral dilemma, holy crab, because that's where the
(21:19):
rubber beats the road, right. It's one thing to have
the theory, the thought exercise. It's another to actually have
to do it. Wow. And then so is that something
that you think you would be able to do? Do
you think you would do it any different than how
(21:40):
Nita did it? You know, if you were pose with
that same question, the sacrificing of the few to save
the many? Do you you know? One, which do you
think would be the right way to go? And two
would you be able to do it? And like I
(22:00):
said before, there is no option. See which would you
be able to do? Let me know. I'm curious, I
really am, you know, Send me an email. Ho Ho
at the Black Mirror podcast or Black Mirror podcast dot com.
Send me an email because I'm interested. I want to
know these things I really do. And then moral dilimma
number two, the baby Hitler dilimma, because this is kind
(22:23):
of okay, this is how it plays out with me,
all right, because it's like, yes, the rational mind knows
that going, you know, it knows the atrocities that Hitler committed,
knows what he did, knows that he basically tried to
exterminate an entire group of people. You know, the Holocaust
(22:47):
was an ugly thing, it really was, and it's hard
to grasp the true impact that it had until you
go to to some of these places and you see
you know, the Museum of It, you know, I mean
it puts it I've never been, but from what I've
(23:08):
heard of people describing it that it puts a whole
new depth of reality into for you, you know, I mean,
it really changes your perspective on it, you know. And
so going back in time, the rational mind knows that, yeah,
this is a person whom will do all these things.
It's not a question. You know, it's not a question,
(23:32):
it's an answer. You've lived the future, You've experienced the future.
You know that this is what he's going to do. However,
you book, you go back in time to baby Hitler.
Baby Hitler isn't guilty of anything. Baby Hitler hasn't done anything.
(23:52):
We're talking like, you know, we'll go with like three,
between three and five years old, Okay, old enough to
walk around. You know, he's starting to show his personality,
but he's still a kid. He's still a young child.
(24:15):
He's still innocent of the atrocities that he will commit
later on down the road. Would you be able to
do it? Yeah, rationally, you know what the correct answer
would be. Logically, you know what the right move is
(24:36):
to be. But when push comes to shove, when you're
actually forced to take action, do nothing. Many people die
or the sacrifice of one, but you're the one that
(24:56):
has to act on that. Wow. Again, I don't know
because the baby hasn't done anything wrong yet. I mean,
these are moral dilemmas huge, and Nita had to face
two of some of the hardest ones to face, right,
(25:19):
I mean, Wow, dude, this episode caught me by surprise.
It really did, because those moral dilemma things, they caught
me off guard. I wasn't expecting it. Holy crap. It
was a good episode, you know. I was expecting something different.
I wished it would have been a little darker than
what it was. But they got their point across, didn't they.
(25:44):
So let me know what you think. You know, how
logical and rational are you? Do you think you would
be able to do it? Do you not? Or maybe,
considering the topic, maybe you should just keep your mouth shut.
I don't know, but either way you look at it,
let me know. Send me an email at ho Ho
at the at Hoho at Black Mirror podcast dot com.
(26:09):
Let me know what you would do. Either way. I'm
curious I want to know anyway. You know, I appreciate
y'all stopping by taking a list, and I really do.
I appreciate each and every one of you. It means
a lot to me, it really does. So with this
being the season finale in two to three weeks, I'm
going to be doing a recap, talking about the season
(26:30):
in its entirety and even trying to come up with,
you know, my favorite episode, my top two, maybe a
ranking of all of them, whichever the case may be.
So that was going to be getting released in the
next two to three weeks. And I also have some
good news. They are releasing a season seven sometime in
(26:54):
twenty twenty five. I'm not really sure what the day
is of when they plan on releasing it. I don't
know how far into production they are. I really didn't
read that much into it, and so far, Charlie Booker
has been pretty quiet on things, and so quiet in fact,
the only things that we know about season seven is
that they plan on doing a USS Callister sequel. That
(27:20):
ought to be interesting. I really did enjoy that episode.
And we have a list of actors that are going
to be appearing in season seven other than that they've
been pretty quiet about it, so I'm excited to see
what they come up with. I'll be waiting for whenever
season seven releases, and holy col Yeah, I'm looking forward
(27:40):
to it, I really am. But we'll be talking about
that kind of stuff as well, going through the different
actors and you know, maybe what we can expect in
the next season. But until then, y'alls have yourself a
good one. Thank you for stopping by, and I will
see you in the next one. Thank you for listening
(28:04):
to the Black Mirror podcast. If you would like to
join the conversation, you can comment on this episode a
spreaker dot com or go to the ho host show
dot com, Forward, slash form, and the discussion board for
this s
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