August 20, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode, Zale delves into the world of mental performance with Dr. Cassidy Preston, a renowned mental performance coach. Discover practical mental hacks and habits that can elevate your mindset and performance to enhance your surgical practice. Dr. Preston shares insights on the importance of an inside-out approach, the power of routines, and how to maintain focus and confidence in high-pressure situations. Tune in to learn how to harness your mental game for success in any field.
Learn more about Dr. Cassidy Preston at https://drcassidypreston.com/
This episode is sponsored by Thea Pharma Canada - https://www.theapharma.ca/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/blind-spot-the-eye-doctor-s-podcast--5819306/support.
Learn more about Dr. Cassidy Preston at https://drcassidypreston.com/
This episode is sponsored by Thea Pharma Canada - https://www.theapharma.ca/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/blind-spot-the-eye-doctor-s-podcast--5819306/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey everybody, I'm ZAEO Mednik and welcome to another episode
of blind Spot. This episode is sponsored by THEA Pharma Canada.
THEA pharm of Canada is the Canadian subsidiary of THEA,
Europe's leading pioneering and innovative eye health brand. Founded in
nineteen ninety four by Henri Chibre. With five generations of history,
the Chibret family has been dedicated to I care for
(00:32):
more than one hundred and fifty years. Their commitment to
improving lives is born of their pioneering spirit. They continue
to lead the worldwide preservative free movement in eye care.
They've created innovative delivery systems. They've focused on making products
accessible and cost effective for patients. They live this mission
every day because everyone should have the same opportunities to
see the world through healthy eyes. So thank you THEO
(00:55):
Pharmer Canada for supporting blind Spot. I'm joined today by
doctor Cassidy Press. Cassidy is a mental performance coach, author
and keynote speaker. He coaches elite athletes, teams, and high
performers to optimize their mindset. His approach is research based, progressive,
and personalized for each client. Cassidy runs CP Mindset, one
(01:16):
of the largest mental performance coaching firms in the world. Cassidy,
Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thanks for hav Mesel. I'm excited to be here and
dive in.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I'm very excited to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And this is kind of a different topic than the
typical one we do on blind Spot. Usually we're talking about,
I guess, in some regards more boring things like clinical
diagnoses and different surgical procedures and some of our blind
spots there. But this episode is super important, I think,
and it's about some of the blind spots maybe in
some of our psychological processes.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And the way that we go about our work on
a day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And obviously we try to achieve high performance and everything
we do, but sometimes that may not be something we
necessarily unpack and think about.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
To start off, you're a high performance coach.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Talk to me a little bit about what you do,
who you work with, and just to give a sense
to people about who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, so I'll work mostly with athletes, So I'll work
with like professional athletes, NHL players, pro golfers, a variety
of sports as well as athletes trying to you know,
make it to the next levels and up and comers,
and I have a whole team you know, around me,
and that that also works with a variety of ages
(02:31):
in sports as well. However, obviously that quickly translates to
working with business professionals or anybody dealing with pressure and
adversity and have really high internal standards because there's gonna
be noise, there's doubt, there's you know, fears that come up,
and it's having those processes within too to process that,
to deal with that so that they can be focused
(02:54):
and in the moment and perform at their best consistently.
So that's kind of a co of who I work
with or and then how we do it. I'm sure
we're going to get a little bit more into that,
but that's a wide range of understanding anybody dealing with
pressure and adversities and having high standards. It comes with
the mental game. It becomes so important for them.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Most people listening to that are probably saying, Wow, that's
a really really cool job, and also thinking, wow, I
could definitely kind of use some advice in hintson, I'm curious,
and we'll get into this kind of what you say
to athletes? Because I love sports, and I'm sure sure
a lot of people love sports listening to this, and
I often wonder I'll watch somebody and I'll see them
have a bad game, and I'm thinking, obviously, they don't
(03:37):
want to have a bad game, right, nobody wants them
a bad game, And obviously they come out saying I
want to do better? And what do you say to
that person? What would you say? Is one of your
main tenants in the idea of mindset first. There's obviously
a lot of psychology and a lot of principles that
go into what you teach and what you preach, but
what are some of the core tenets of what you
(03:58):
think are most important for the athletes to deal with
to achieve the best they can?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, you know, there's probably a few different ways, and
even like trying to use your example of like what
do they do after they have a performance but you
know they're not happy with it? And and a huge
tenet of the mindset first approach is like it's an
inside out approach, meaning the main mistake where people really
start to get stuck in their own head, they're overthinking,
they're fearful, they're worried, you know, they start holding themselves back,
(04:29):
you know, by their mindset and their mental approach. It's
usually because foundationally they're going outside in or what I'll
call results first, the whole priority, and everything revolves around like, well,
what do I want to achieve? What's the results? What's good? Like,
what's the outcome? And and the outcome therefore dictates how
they feel and they go outside in, meaning all right,
well here's the results. Here's what I got to do
(04:49):
to get the results. And the last thing they'll folks
on is like, well, now who do I want to
be and how do I want to feel? But if
they never go inside out and they're always going outside in,
well then they're like emotional roller coaster and they're so
dependent on the external world and that's not a great
source of consistency because there's gonna be variability in the
outside world, and we want to stay steady, and that's
(05:11):
why we want to go inside out. If you're a
fan of sports, this is why sports is so entertaining.
There is gonna be these highs and loves right so like,
and so it's like often with a pro athlet I'm
like you can't think like a fan, like fans are
out there going yay you like you can do you're
on the bench, like go on this emotional roller coaster
like it's it's not conducive. So one of these main
(05:32):
tenants is, all right, well, let's go inside out. Let's
take a moment. Who do I want to be? How
do I want to show up? What are these trees?
What does that look like felix for me? And then
that leads to the actions and then we actually go
play in the outer world. Right, you have to go
actually get on the ice, get you know, do the
work and show up and get after it, and it
leads to the results. But we're flipping the priorities, we're
(05:52):
flipping the approaches and spending some time to go inside
and get clarity first and foremost is a very powerful tool.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I love the way you phrase that, going inside out
and also just not going.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Results first, because the reality is when most people are
thinking about their performance, like, the end product is the results, right,
and if you don't get the results, especially in sports
or especially in surgery like we'll talk about, that is
going to be a problem. So it's naturally for it's
not for people's minds to go to results, because if
(06:23):
the results aren't there, then there's going to be a problem.
You're going to get benched, you're going to lose your job,
or you're not going to be a good surgeon. I
guess one question that maybe relates to results as opposed
to mindset is something that's a very common advice in
life is just try your best, right, And a lot
of times i'm talking to someone, they'll say, listen, you're
(06:45):
trying your best.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
You're doing your best.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And I imagine that athletes when they're having a bad day,
it's probably a good thing to say, you know, I
tried my best, I am trying my best. How do
you go into a situation where you want to have
them menta I'm going to try my best, but you
also at the same time have the mentality of I'm
going to be able to succeed, right, because sometimes the
(07:08):
mentality of I'm trying my best maybe supersedes that I
am going to achieve well, and you need to kind
of coexist with both of those mentalities.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah. Well, I can look at it from a couple sides,
Like if we look at the after the fact, it's like, hey,
did you try your best? And it's like, yeah, but
the result matters. I try my best, but I didn't
get the result. And you know, trying to break down
that like internal conflict of like I'm trying my best,
but I'm not getting the result. Well, we want to
results are a form of feedback. It can be a
great form of feedback. Okay, well what can I do differently?
(07:40):
How can I learn? And just because you're trying your best, well,
what does that really mean? Trying your best at what right?
And what we really like to get people do is
like setting standards for their preparation, for how they show
up for the parts of their game and their process.
It's like, hey, I gave my best. However, here's some
things that can now work on or adjust And sometimes
(08:01):
you just give your best and you're fully prepared and
like life just happens, like things aren't going to go
their way, like it's the other team's trying to win,
or you know, there's complications and surgeries and so this
idea of you know, both things can matter and there's
it's just about the bottom line, just the results. Well okay, well,
like that's a pretty like and again you're gonna get
(08:22):
that results first emotional roller coaster versus all right, well
who's that being? What was my standards of my process?
And then let's learn from it and adjust standards. Maybe
it's like, actually, I don't think I've had a high
enough standard for rehearsing here or for for this part
of my game. So I can that's something now I
can work on and evolve and learn. Now. On the
flip side, the before side, which you're alluding to, is like, well, okay,
(08:44):
well I want the result, and I want to get
the result, but I want to be focused on doing
my best, but like.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
But I want the results exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So like that side is kind of like, you know,
there's there's you know that that can cause you to
go a little loopy, just trying to sort that out.
So the way one of my favorite analogies for this
is we want to be driven and detached. And so
an easy way to think about it is like even
like a golf your grip and golf, so you don't
want to squeeze it too hard. You can't fully let
(09:12):
it go either, And so we want to be really driven,
which means we hold like there's we want the result
and we really care about it and we want our
athletes high performers to really want it. Like it's like
I sometimes people like, oh, you got to want it less.
I'm like, that's that's weird advice. Why would you ever
tell someone to want something less, like as if that's
the problem. No, the we want to be able to
(09:33):
want it yet and at the same time be able
to let go and understand the range and detach and
and be able to see it for what it is
and zoom out. And so that's where we're like, we're
moving in and out to find the sweet spot of
the grip of Like now I'm going for what I
want and I'm doing it in a calm, grounded way
that I'm not dependent forcing trying to control it. And
(09:53):
that's you know, again a lot easier for us to
say than to go and do. But it's definitely doable
and it's a never ending pursuit. And and having the
awareness and at tension, then what does that look like
in an individual? You know, there's some nuance and personalized
parts to it, but that's you know, from a high
level looking at on you know, deciphering on this side
versus then after the fact like it's like, oh, okay,
(10:16):
well how'd I do? And you know, you got to
be able to process and we don't ignore the feedback.
So and you want to adjust and learn and you know,
be clear on what your standards are because sometimes like yeah,
I didn't get the result, and you want I'm not
happy with how I prepared so or you know, the
way I showed up in this area, So something to
learn and grow and push yourself so versus well I
get my best, Like what that's that's not a that's
(10:38):
not a recipe for high performance. So yeah, we don't
want to make it all about the results because then
that you know, now you're going to hold on too
tight and be too tense.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So you're right in that there's kind of those are
two separate moments. One is before it's going on, what's
the mindset there? And then one is the mindset afterwards.
And that's where it's a little bit makes more sense
to say I tried my best and I'm going to
learn from it, but different than before you do it,
where you don't want to go in with the mentality
of just I'm going to try my best. You also
want to go in with the mentality of I'm gonna
(11:07):
try my best, I'm gonna win.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, there's a lot of actionables.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I'm sure that you go over with your clients, with athletes,
whoever you're working with. And sometimes people will say in
terms of this idea inside out or outside in, that
you kind of have to change your mental processes and
that is then going to kind of guide behavior, maybe
not in this particular context. And then some people would say,
(11:33):
and maybe they're not mutually exclusive, they would say, sometimes
you got to kind of just get out of your
mind completely and you need to just focus on the actions,
stop thinking at all, and once you kind of maybe
practice enough, repeat things enough, that's going to lead to
a change in your mindset. What's your thought process on
the cause and effect there?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, well that's a great question. I'll answer a few ways.
One is because even just use the last question, there's
the before and the after. We didn't really talk about
the during, Like I didn't specifically stay during, So like
what would I coach someone to do during? Well, it's
just be in the moment. It's just to go and
let it happen. We prepare, set our intentions, we rehearse,
(12:19):
we go inside out before actually, so what we could
just be in the game, be in the moment, be
on the actions and so whereas I don't really want somebody,
especially an athlete, but and I have overly like thinking
and judging. It's it's a performance time. You're in the
moment adapting, you know, executing the game plan. You're focusing
on the task at hand, right and versus like, well
(12:42):
I got to be thinking about like oh like like
that's not helpful. And sometimes we'll have someone come in
and because it is helpful to prepare and set your
intentions before and to be clear on who you want
to be and and know you want something and get
detached and stuff. I have this healthy, grounded preparation and
we do a lot of coping planning, like how are
you gonna respond to versity happens? How you gonna respond
if you feel the pressure, the fear or the you know,
(13:03):
the different responses in your body, how will you adapt
in the moment? Well, all that prep you know, then
sets up and then it's like all right, well now
you got to let go and just go let it happen,
trust yourself and adapt along the way. So that kind
of starts to answer this middle part, which is obviously,
you know, super interesting and can unpack in a lot
of ways. But to go loop back to the first part,
we're you know, sometimes we'll see this with pro athletes
(13:27):
and athletes of all levels and high performers. It's like,
never worked on the mental game yet, They've never had
a whole lot of mental game challenges, and they're just
like in it. But then all of a sudden, when
you're in it and you've never done any plan to cope,
and then you start facing like it can be very
hard to get yourself out. So that's the like the
challenge of like, well, I'm not gonna but if I
start thinking about it, well, now I'm going to think
about it too much. Yeah, I get it. Like if
(13:49):
you open Pandora's box, now you can't unopen it makes
sense once you've seen what's in there and you've thought
about your mindset, we can't unsee it. But I would
rather be prepared and now you can adapt a lot better. Right,
And so because the a lot of the people come
to us is like they've never opened it, and then
all of a sudden they're like, I don't know what
to do, and they're spiraling as that makes sense. So
(14:11):
the it's there's there's this process of like, hey, well
I want to understand it, but it doesn't need to
be complident, right, We're not trying to get people to
think a bunch. And it's like, okay, well now I
got to think about also the mental work I went
on plus the actions. I'm it's like, what's like, no,
Like we're doing the pre work right. Overthinking A good
way to look at it is overthinking is a symptom
(14:32):
that you didn't think enough before, you weren't prepared enough,
so now your brain's trying to like compensate and figure
out a plan. And like, well, what should I be like,
Like you didn't think enough before. If we think and
plan to cope enough before, then as things come, we
just adapt and adjust along the way.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And on some level, it's basic in that you just
there's three phases, right, Therefore there's the juring thereafter. On
the other hand, I probably most of us don't break
it down like that, and I just already can see
how that would be helpful to break it down. I'm
gonna go into some ophalmology specific questions and I canvass
some people's opinions and thoughts and questions they had before
(15:08):
doing this episode.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I obviously know some of my own.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I don't want to call them demons and be dramatic,
but related to operating. But I spoke to people and
got some of their questions, and one was related to
new grads, people who were coming out they've done their
ophthalmology residency or any surgical training residency really, And the
reality is, we know, based on studies that there's going
(15:32):
to be higher complication rates in people who are starting
out by themselves, after doing their training right and they're
on their own.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Now, how would you coach.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
People to prepare for a higher complication rate? And again
that's not saying go into it thinking you're going to
have complications, But cataract surgeries are bread and butter surgery
and ophthalmology. A lot of us do other procedures as well,
but we'll focus on cataract surgery. And in cataract surgury,
you're going to get complications. And one of the complications
(16:04):
i'll explain to you briefly is called a PCR, a
posterior capsule a rupture where basically the cataract think about
it as a smarty.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
This is what I tell patients.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We make a little opening in the smarty, we take
out all the chocolate, which is the lens. We keep
the shell, and then we put a new lens inside
the shell, which is called the capsule. Sometimes, though, the
shell can break and there can be a little tear
at the back of that shell, and that's what we
call a PCR, and that's not good. Sometimes when that happens,
(16:33):
we can manage it so that it doesn't cause a
bad outcome, and sometimes we can't and it does cause
a bad outcome and the chocolate the lens falls into
the back of the eye. That's kind of the basic
way of saying PCR. Knowing you're going to have maybe
more of those, how would you coach somebody who's starting
off and saying, you know what, I'm stressed and I
(16:54):
think my confidence is going to be shaken or my
confidence is shaken because I've had a few of those.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, so I'll go into the like the going in
part again where it's like, hey, I'm worried I might
get some. Right, So, whether they've had some recently or not,
or they just know they're they're young, like I don't
want to get some and well, a big part of
that is acceptance and so, which is a huge thing
(17:21):
we do with athletes all the time. It's like, well
you can't accept you might not score in the next game.
I was like, well, maybe you shouldn't play like it's
like maybe hockey's not for you. Like there's this range
of results and be able to own and accept it
doesn't mean tolerate. It's just owning the situation. It's letting
go of the range. So now you can just go
do the work. And I remember as one of the
(17:42):
first surgeons I told this to I don't think he
was an optometrist, but I think it's more radiology or
I forget the exact type of there's lots of complications.
He came up with this thing. I was like, oh, yeah,
well except that you might not get And I was like, well,
this is a little bit different. Especially with him, there
was like the life and death of his I was like,
I don't want you to be indifferent to the life
or death of your patients. I don't want you, know,
(18:03):
you know, the surgeon here, to be indifferent to the
success and failure of the surgery. You want the result
that you want, you don't want this one. However, there's
a range of results, and if you can't accept that,
don't be a surgeon. Don't do the work. Like that's
it's the burden of being a doctor and a surgeon.
And now again you're gonna do everything in your power
to reduce that and learn from it. And when they
(18:23):
do happen, there can be great learning moments and and
unpacking and it's it's obviously just part of the process.
I mean, you're doing difficult surgeries and you're learning, like
there's gonna be mistakes, and so there's that side of it.
And a big side of it too, is like collapsing
the fantasy nightmare. We do a lot with clients. So
the fantasy is like, well, I'm gonna be perfect and
the best surgeon ever and everything's just gonna be great
(18:44):
all the time. Like it's no, there's you know it.
You know, let's just say you start your career. I
know you got like you're like one hundred four hundred.
It's like, well, guess what, there's a lot of pressure
and expectations now to come with that. Like it's not
all sunshine and rainbows. Playing in the NHL being you know,
the best surgeon of all, Like there's challenges that come
with that, and vice versa, like oh well when you
(19:05):
do face adversity or you get cut or things don't
work out as an athlete or a high performer, well
they could be great sources of great growth learning, you know,
defining moments that can really fuel you and help you grows.
It's just as a result based on the work I
come in, my ability to be present and then as
well as like the circumstances of the environment, the obviously
(19:28):
the patient and their health and like, I'm sure that
stuff I don't know, but I'm sure there's things out
of your control that influence it.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That acceptance piece is big, and I mean that obviously
goes on throughout your whole career and that you got
to accept it. But I guess as you're starting on,
as you're starting out, accepting happened a little bit more frequently.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's just like, well, if it
does or when it does, like, those are my learning opportunities.
It is what is part of the journey, like and
versus if you try to fight it, resistant and control it,
like now you're going to be more tense. You're thinking
about the outcome in the middle of this, like you're
not in the moment focusing on the task of hand
and process, which will actually increase your probability of making,
(20:07):
you know, a mistake. And so so there's that side.
And then the other side of like with the confidence
in the after the fact is you know, we do
this with athletes a lot, but it's like instead of
the word confidence, will use the word capabilities. So like
what confidence is is just somebody that owns their capabilities,
but often we associate confidence was like, well, I've had
(20:28):
a few successful surgeries, so therefore I am confident, Right,
I have made a mistake, Therefore I shouldn't be confident anymore,
Like you're it's too short sighted, right, you're looking at
too small of a sample size, versus like you can
own your capabilities because of all of the training that
you've been doing, not because of how the last surgery went.
Like if that was the case, then anybody makes mistakes,
(20:49):
they should be doubting themselves. So so there's that side
of it, and and it goes even into like imposter
syndrome as well. And I know as a common thing,
which you know, my mentor. Todd Herman does a you know,
a really good job of like you know you're you're
not an actual impostor. Like the wording itself is like
a bit of a misnomer because the people aren't actually
(21:10):
feel like they're an impost right. It's like if you
if you went to the med school, you got the degree,
you're like, you're not impostering. Like if I pretend to
be something I'm not, that's impostering. But like you just
feeling a significant level of like, oh do I belong here?
I don't know if I'm capable, But again I have
a lot of self doubt and confidence things. But again
(21:32):
I would just frame it back to well, are you
owning your capabilities or not? It's like, no, right now,
I'm not owning my capability. Now again, you're going to
be developing your capabilities early on, right, Like it's it's
a learning process, and I'm sure it's probably fairly steep
as you're transitioning from residency to to run your own
practice and whatnot. So so the but but when we
(21:55):
the language we use will dictate the mental state a lot.
And when you're like, oh, I have common these problems
like says who I'm saying about mysel and that becomes
a self perpetual and identity thing. I don't know if
I could deal with this adversity. It's like not again
accepting and owning that versus like, oh, well, I'm not
owning my capabilities right now? Well why not because I'm
worried about this or I'm new? Well like, yeah, you
(22:16):
shouldn't own your capabilities when you're one year out of
residency or months out of it versus when you're ten
years out of it, like like this guy's got more capabilities,
Like that's just a fact.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Self perpetuating nature really speaks to me, and that there's
times when I know that it's really easy for you
to kind of tell yourself a story about yourself, and
then that story to really really just dominate the way
you think and the way you behave. And then you
realize one day, like why am I thinking like that?
I used to maybe go into an our day thinking
I'm nervous, like there's a guy next door who's operating,
(22:49):
and I mean, they're they're probably a little bit better
than me, and then something clicked. I was like, well,
I know what I'm doing. I'm fine, and just just
changing the story. It didn't actually change anything I was doing,
but it just made me feel a little bit more confident,
not over confidence, and there's that balance of not wanting
to feel over confident. You address that kind of balance
that you need to strike between humility and over confidence
(23:11):
somewhere in the middle. But it's really it's wild how
your brain can kind of tell you these stories sometimes
and then you can just get fixated on them for indefinitely.
In ophthalmology, one of the unique things is that we
operate in a lot of patients. A cataract surgery takes
on average about fifteen minutes, so a lot of surgeons
will do about twenty patients in a day, and a
(23:35):
lot of people, myself included. Let's say I do twenty
patients in a day and nineteen go great and one
does not go great.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I'll come home and that's a failure for me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And I'm not trying to say that in a pretentious
way like I'm perfect. It just the reality is in ophthalmology,
if you get the PCR that I'm talking about and
it goes south, you kind of say to yourself, well,
ninety five percent I should be having a PCR rate
of about one percent, not five percent, which is nineteen
(24:06):
out of twenty, which people can do math obviously. So
it's easy though to say, well, even though I had
a great day, it wasn't a great day because percentage wise,
I shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I guess there's two questions here. One during the day.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
If it's your fifth case, say okay, well I got
to move on. I got fifteen other patients I got
to operate on and be my best self. And then
two at the end of the day not overly exaggerate
that one moment and have it color the whole day.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, great question, and I love this stuff. I'd argue
or propose two very important things that to me are
like almost non negotiable, Like if you want to be
a high performer, I would have routines or preset response
for well, if or more so, when something happens midday adversity,
(24:58):
how am I going to respond? So the solution will
be a few fold. One is first knowing how do
I what's my tendency to go? Do I shrink? Do
I go small? Do I panic worry? Do I kind
of like do I beat myself up? So knowing your
personalized response, Well, now we can create a solution to
breathe through you know, give yourself some space to process
(25:21):
that emotion so that you do get centered and back into,
like you said, your best self. So like there's you know,
we do it with athletes that have like a reset routine, right,
and it's and it uses acceptance, its ownership. It's using
breathing to manage their arousal level and then recommitting and
creating the story and the narrative to move forward. And
so you know, there's a lot that we can unpack,
(25:42):
but it's very personalized and it starts with knowing, Okay,
well how do I respond in this moment? Often my
tendency and if I feel this way and I start
going into that, well here's how I'm going to own this.
Not judge yourself for it too, because that's a common
trap if you start judging yourself or like I'm getting
frustrated or I'm doubting myself. Oh my god, I'm judging
and then you started like I'm like why am I
Why am I doubting myself? And now like you're definitely screwed.
(26:04):
Like that's a downward versus like have the self compassion,
be like I'm a human. Of course I'm like upset
that didn't work. Of Course I might feel a little
bit of doubt or worry or or feel a bit small.
That's okay. I can own this situation. And now who
do I how do I want to move forward? And
it's like, all right, well, I can use this to
learn and grow. You know, that's a I've got a
(26:24):
freshraguer here. Look at all the other things I've done,
Like I own my capabilities versus small. I make myself big,
you know, change your posture, you're breathing. It's all right,
let's move forward. The reset's done, you know, you like
I've had, like some of the surgeons doctors I work with,
they might have a part of their uniform is like
a key part of their like you know, we're talking
like alter egos, which is like an identity basings. All right,
(26:45):
let's lock it back in now, like you've done a
little reset, lock it back in before the next one.
So I would have something like that. And I bet
you know the surgeons that have been around, you know,
the you know, there's a lot of them, will have
something like that. They have a little routine, I'm sure
or that they probably almost do between everyone, let alone,
you know, especially a tough one on the flip side
(27:06):
at the end of the day and not letting that
eat you up forever or just ruin the rest of
your weekend or day or week or whatever. Is making
sure you have a decompression. So like we do this
with that, like how do we decompress after a game? Right?
How do we compartmentalize? And that's that phase three, Right,
there's phase one. How do we prepare, set dead intentions,
(27:26):
know who you want to be. You're creating the identity
and the plan, and then we let go and just
let it happen. Phase two and we have to adapt.
That's the reset routine and adapt along the way and
you stay in it well after how do we reflect
what we how can we learn? How can we process
own it and then park it because like a huge
mistake high performers do is they will ruminate about it
(27:48):
forever and so end we're as humans, we're predispositioned to
focus on like you know, thread adverse, like you know,
whereas I screw up and make sure that we overly
we were designed to focus on the negative way more
than the positive, right, so therefore part of them what
you do is like write down your wins, Like I'm
a huge advocate of everyone, Like, write down your five wins,
Like what went well today? Oh yeah, I remember this.
(28:09):
I connected well with that patient. I did a good
adaptation here, like I crushed this one. Like like, no
matter how tough of a day, write down what went well.
If you, especially if you're somebody that finds themselves getting
always replaying the negativity, Like just build that practice in
because if we want to be a high performer that thrives,
that's helpful. If you're trying to just survive, yeah, don't
(28:29):
focus on what's going well, Like you're in survival mode.
You're in the woods, Like where's the danger? Like like
I did need to survive. You're not in survival mode.
You're in trying to thrive and maximize impact and be
a high performer. So to fuel that growth and certainty
and confidence, it's like it's like, hey, own your capabilities,
own it every day, own the winds, like it creates
(28:50):
its own internal momentum. So just that practice will help
subset it a bit. And then it's like all right, well,
what can I learn what could I do differently and
process it and then part and be like, all right,
it's over now shift gears, get into family mode, you know,
friends mode, like sport mode, whatever you want to do.
So but I would have a process so that it
(29:10):
helps eliminate or at least reduce the never ending another Yeah,
I don't get. But one other quick analogy to it
too you could maybe use is like there's the surgeon
hat that goes and does the surgery, and then there's
like a manager hat that's like manages the surgeon's career,
manages there like and we do this with athletes. It's like, hey,
(29:31):
it's managing expectations, it's and so it's like shifting gears
from you know, in the business world, be like the
guy scooping the ice cream that just you know is
out there, is delivering. That's the athletes is just they're
just the employee just getting it done, where sometimes they
got to put the manager hat on, being like, well
should we scoop ice cream here? Which like, you know,
do I need to ask for trade? You know, managing
you know, my house playing time going to go? So
(29:52):
they're they're managing. That's very different mindset traits like logic, strategic,
et cetera. This kind is like in it passion in
the moment, so you might be wearing a different hat
as well in this mode.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
One of the things, especially in sports, and I guess
in surgery is I'm thinking even not necessarily even between cases,
but even during a case, in terms of implementing that
routine and knowing what it's going to be. Sometimes that's
got to be done really really quickly, right Like I'm
thinking if a running back in football fumbles the ball
and they've got maybe five minutes before they're back on offense,
(30:28):
or in surgery, if you have a complication and then
you've still got fifteen patients to operate on for the
rest of.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
The day, that process it's got to be quick.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So is there enough time to have I guess depending
on who you're dealing with, the process can be a
little bit different. And like you said, tailored, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah for sure. So and I'll use this so like
in between patients you might have like what two to
five minutes, five to ten minutes max. So that's more
than enough time to do a like to give yourself
the space to do a routine like these routines. You know,
we generally make them like fifteen to thirty seconds, but
you can take make it longer. Now in surgery, you're
(31:10):
not doing a reset routine. You then want to do
coping plan, Like, well, if it's going in that moment,
I just take a breath and adapt right, like I'm
going to I'm not going to panic and go down
this road. I'm going to stay down and stay present.
It's like, this is what I signed up for. Like,
let's stay in it right and keep trusting and adapting
along the way, versus start hitting the panic button. That
makes sense. Like that was like one of the surgeons
(31:32):
I work with, like that was his thing, and he
had it's thought that he was doing poor. Surgeon was
actually a you know, pretty you know, higher level surgeon.
But he was like, but his heart rate would go
up and especially like in his like you know, he's
getting nervous right like in it, and so it wasn't
really hurting his performance. But he's like, I don't feel
locked in all the time, like as locked in as
maybe I could. And so as he was able to
(31:54):
pre accept the range of results, he had a plan
to cope with. Well, if he got the fear of
you know, the intern you know, or the resident not
doing as well, or complication happening. They got to like like,
you know, whatever his types of surgeries he was doing,
he had a plan to cope with it. So then
he was like, well then when it happens is like,
oh he stayed gone right, And so that's less of
(32:15):
a reset routine. That's just well, this is this is
how I plan to cope in that moment. I just
take a breath and I just you know, I embrace
it and go with it versus panic and like start
judging myself and be oh my god, this is all bad.
It's like it's just part of the job. And and uh,
I remember like he used like the Gladiator like he
was like like it was his was like his alter ego,
and he wanted to be very stoic obviously and some
(32:36):
things like that. So being being intentional about who he
wanted to be and how he wanted to spawn a
different moment. So that's kind of a very that might
be more applicable to your audience too, around like like
what are you doing in surgery versus then in between,
like the in between one might be like, oh I
might you know, take the glasses off or whatever. I
you know, just take a second, I go breathe, you know,
do like five deep diaframatic breasts and process it and
(32:59):
a lot of go and you know, you get some
time and space to process the emotion and let it
go and then move forward and set your intention again,
or you haven't got time, like I got time, you know,
like the guy on the But it can happen in
a moment. But if you have time and the space,
like create the time and space to and again, the
(33:19):
emotions in our body, if you own them, process them,
they'll dissipate. Like it's the chemical Like I'm sure you
know this better than I do. It's the chemical reactions
that are happening, Like they won't linger forever if you
deal with them. But if you hold on to it,
you're like, oh, yeah, that was shit. I'm an idiot.
I suck. Like now you're gonna keep playing the narrative,
like you'll stay tense and word and fearful more so
the rest of the day. If that makes.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Sense that that reset obviously is different. That's kind of
in between cases, not during the case. You can reset
between the case and reassuring what you're saying that it
doesn't need to take like an hour. Ideally, these are
designed for situations like this where you might only have
a minute or a couple of minutes where you can
do that reset routine and then during the case you right,
it's really easy when you see and a PCR what
(34:03):
I explained to for is a good example because it
can go south really quickly or can be fairly a
non issue if you deal with it well. And I
think what that comes down to is one what you've
described is don't get into your head and start saying
I'm a bad surgeon, this is awful, this is going
to be a bad day. And the other thing is
kind of the pre planning acceptance that that's going to happen,
(34:24):
and also pre planning and having the skills to deal
with it. And if you're in the right mentality, then
you're going to be able to kind of go into
your tool bag a little bit more easily and deal
with the situation better. How do you prepare for a
big moment? I mean, in sports, there are big games.
In surgery, every patient matters, of course, and every patient
(34:47):
is equal, but some of us live in communities where
we're kind of forced to operate on people we know.
You know, you try, some people don't try, but most
of us try to not operate on people we know
for many reasons. But there's situations where there's going to
be a surgical case which is either on somebody that
you're nervous about or the nature of the case is
more challenging. Do you have any specific advice on not
(35:09):
letting a moment be too big?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, for sure. So it's again, you want to personalize
that well, how like A common example is then, well,
like how do you feel in that moment? So again,
I might feel like I'm small the moment so big,
I get fearful, I get like a little timid, I'm
like less confident, and you kind of all go almost
like too cautious, like like I could see this as
a surgeon is like if you go too slow, Like
(35:36):
I don't know, like does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Like there's a patient I was operating on yesterday who said,
before surgery, I just want this to go well quick
and get a great result fast. This is right before
I'm operating, And I noticed as I started operating, my
mental process is changing and thinking and then reflecting afterwards,
how did that affect the way I did it?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Right? And it's natural that I realize, do you know what?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I was taking a little bit more time on a
couple of steps, And I don't know if that was
necessarily a.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Good thing, taking more time.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I think that made me feel like I was giving
the extra care because she was making me a little
bit stressed out.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
But that was deviating from my typical routine.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, And so it's like so and at
that's point, so it's like, oh, I I get cautious
and not going to try and go slower, which is
like Mike is like, no, like the like, what's like,
I really I'm a butcher trying to explain, trying to
explain what you do. But I'm like, it's like.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
There's certain steps where it's not always better, right, there
are certain steps where you need to be decisive, and
slowing down takes away from that decisiveness of your movement.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah. Yeah, and then your hand might shake or like
what like you know what I mean, like as you're
sorry to force yourself. So that's all like we call
it forcing and controlling versus letting it happen and but so,
but knowing that feeling and then you can be intentional
to like, okay, normalize it, accept it, embrace it, so
that you can now all right, let that and go to, well,
how do I want to like decisive? Confident? Certain, So
(37:05):
knowing that matters. But if you're making it bigger than
you and you're still you're therefore you get small. So like, well,
I'm gonna make myself like I can deal with this.
This is it's We use zoom out a lot as well,
so it's like I'm gonna make myself big. I'm gonna
zoom out on the situation because if you zoom in
on it, it feels huge and big. Oh my god,
this is so important. It's like it's just another patient.
Of course, it's different. The context is different. It's like
(37:26):
going into playoffs and sports, it's like, yeah, the context
has changed. It seems bigger, but it's still just sport.
Makes sense, like it's still just a game, and you know,
the net's the same size, the game's the same and
so being able to zoom out is a helpful way
to give perspective and therefore not zoom in and feel
the weight of it. So it's like, okay, well, knowing
(37:47):
that shift that I'm kind of gonna zoom out and
stay big and own it. I'm gonna be decisive, not
be hesitant. Like now you can step into that. So
that's one way of you know, a quick way of
like knowing that contry and again so then when you
get there, it's like, all right, let's step into it now.
One of the other things that I haven't said I've said,
but I haven't really explained, is I love the words
(38:10):
letting go. So this really comes from those a bunch
of different places let go and let it happened comes from.
But one of my favorites is Phil Stutz, who's you know,
done some great work in the field, and he uses
a lot of like tools and analogies to paint a picture.
And so the idea of what that looks like is
very much you could think of like before a surgery,
(38:32):
before a game for an athlete. You're at the top
of this mountain, and so again phase one, you want
to be really prepared. You're prepared to jump off this
mountain and do this cliff dive, which is kind of scary,
and there's you're going to land at the end of
the of the game, at the end of the cliff dive,
at the end of the surgery, either a result you
like or don't like. There's two ends, right and and
there's everywhere in between. And the point being is, well,
(38:53):
you're at the top of this cliff. You're like, hey, well,
time to jump off and let it happen and let go,
and and what happens We don't let go and we
hold on. Like so you're hold on the rope, You're like,
this is I'm trying to control myself to perfectly get
this result because it matters so much and I want
it so much. But then what happens. You're not letting
it happen. You're not like, you're not actually gonna perform
(39:14):
as well. And so Phil Stuts is a great analogy
of like, hey, imagine yourself in the top. There's this
range of results. No matter what, you'll be okay, you
can deal with this range. You're holding on the rope,
just let go and free fall, just fall off the cliff,
and you know when you let go, you're like, all right,
let's goote le let it go, and now let it happen.
Now go with the flow. And now you know, just
(39:35):
trust your training and your skills and and do the
sky diving, you know whatever. To influence, which is a
keyword versus control. It's like influence yourself to get the
optimal result, like let yourself perform in a way and
so and again, like you can play with the different words,
like we use influence and control Like some people I
(39:56):
want control. I don't want to. But it's like but again,
if you're someone that's struggling with like trying to force
and control, especially in those moments where you feel there's
a lot of pressure, it's like, I like, let me
trust myself and let it happen. Let me let go
before because the otherwise you were not gonna shift from
phase one to phase two. And again remember key to
phase two. You're not thinking, you're just letting it happen. Well,
(40:16):
you won't do that if you don't let go. Yeah,
makes sense. So we do this prep to prepare ourselves
so that we optimize the probability of the result and
to show up the way you want. But then we
still have to let go. You got to jump off
the cliff and like just get into it. Like now
you've shifted gears and you're in in phase two. So sorry,
but that's why I looked at it.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
There's so many different gears that you need to be
in at different stages, which you've really explained really well, right,
Like some of.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
The advice you're giving is, as we spoke about at
the beginning, it's before you're operating, before you're playing a game,
and then that is to prepare you to go and
dive in the actual game or in the surgery and
get out of your head.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
You got to do work in your head and be
in your head at one point, but then you got
to get out of your head.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
And it's changing.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
But it's also kind of compartmentalizing when it's valuable to
think and when it's valuable to not think. Kind of
one question that somebody asked me was about routine. And
we've talked a bit about routine. But let's say in
an operating room day, a lot of people will go in,
they'll put their music on, they'll kind of have their
routine of scrubbing their hands, or everybody's got their own thing.
(41:26):
Maybe they'll say something to themselves, something weird or who knows,
and they said, is it helpful to have that routine?
And my first thought was, I would imagine it is
helpful to have routine, But they also said, is it
maybe unhelpful because if you get into a routine and
you keep doing things the same way, you might be
missing something, or by doing the same thing for every case,
(41:49):
you might be missing the subtleties and differences between different cases.
What are your thoughts on the importance of establishing a
routine before a game for a hockey player, for example,
or for a surgeon before they're operating.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, great question. So I'll explain the quickly, like routines
versus superstitions. So and you think of like more when
we're thinking mental prep, routines are very helpful, right when
we're thinking of actually tactical prep, right or technical prep
about how you're going to do the surgery and like
reviewing the case and visualizing it or whatever. Like you know,
(42:26):
I do think there's there could be some personalized like Okay,
well I'm doing this type of surgery, or this is
the situation, or this is the well, like I know
I'm going to make this Like I'm sure there's some
differences in certain cases that therefore you could tactically I
would probably tactically prepare differently for But when we're just
thinking general routines like okay, the timing the things I say,
(42:48):
or how I approach and how I want to look
and feel the music routines are very helpful. The caution
is always be careful to start creating superstitions. It's like, well,
because I time I choose this way, like I get
like it's like that causes me to do like oh
like like that's not like but it's easy to like
get almost superstition, which then becomes a problem when like,
(43:08):
oh well I couldn't do the routine the way I
wanted to, and then you start spiraling.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I was going to ask what the danger was with superstitions,
because so what somebody has a weird superstition. But if
you're saying I got to wear these socks for this,
and then you're not wearing the socks one day, then
it actually turns into an issue.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
So it's a routine. There's and there's there is helpful
like it's like hey, you know, I'm sure you have
like special caps and whatever. Like it's like one day
it got missing or it's dirty. It's like okay, well,
that doesn't cause me like it's just part of it.
It's a comfort thing. But I can adapt and do without.
Does that make sense if I if I have to so,
But having those it's from a consistency standpoint, I want
to show up consistently in a certain state, so I
(43:50):
can use certain routines and flows leading up to to
get me into the arousal state, to get me into
the mental for optimal performance. So big fan of routines
for that. And again including one of those main routines
should be setting the intention, being clear of like well,
who do I want to be? How do I want
to show up? And what does that look like? And
(44:11):
and the coping planning with it too, well, if this
happens or if I feel that way, how will I respond?
You got you know? You do? You know? Five minutes
of mental prep at the start of your day and
setting like it is crazy helpful for consistency. So and
then again doing a bit of five minute decompression reflection
at the end of day, like that's like that's all
we're asking. Like I think to a degree it's not
a lot of time energy, but it's a little bit
(44:32):
for a consistency in your performance, but also even just
your well being.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Cassidy, do you have any final thoughts that you would
leave people with just on trying to be high performers?
Speaker 2 (44:43):
You know, one maybe one thing we haven't touched on
too much is like staying connected to why you do
it is always going to be your greatest source of
confidence focus. And it's like, you know, and even especially
in this kind of work, like you know, I didn't
allude to it. I was thinking of it earlier, but
like the villain hero kind of analogy, it's like, in
a way, you get to be a hero a lot
for a lot of people. Does that make sense? So,
(45:04):
but what comes with that? Sometimes somebody ain't gonna be happy.
So it's like like that's just part of the role.
Like it's same for pro athletes, right, Like they get
to sometimes they think they're a hero, but then sometimes
they're the villain, and like you can't get one without
the other. And so it's like in the reality is
you know, you're just going out there and and you're
doing something you love to do and there's a meaningful
(45:26):
impact with that versus again having to oh, well that
means my life will be great all the time and
positive and this is being like, no, there's there's no
role in the world that's just sunshine rainbows all the time.
Like there's challenges that come with that, and so but
knowing why you're doing it, you know, that's what it is.
Saying connected to that and that can be part of
that mental prep is like you don't need to don't
(45:47):
even need words. It's an experience and a feeling. It's
people's it's it's a you know, the patient that said
something to you, or it's the you know, the end outcome,
or it's the experience, or there's a moment early on
you're like, yeah, this this matters to me. Instaying connected
to that goes a long way to keeping someone grounded
and focused and motivated alone confident and knowing that, you know,
(46:09):
having that meaningful experience along the way.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Cassidy Preston, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Really really valuable.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Insight, not just for optimology, but just kind of for
life and how to deal with challenges and like you said, life,
I don't know, there's a bit of a misconception. I
think that life is you know, supposed to be rosy
great all the time and you're dealing with a lot
of people who are in those moments where life is
not rosy, and especially with athletes where it's publicly not rosy,
and kind of just accepting that, realizing that's what life is,
(46:37):
and what are the mental techniques we can use to
deal with those tough moments and then the actual habits
we can create. Cassidy, where can people learn more about
you and your company?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, thanks, so it's been a pleasure of having this conversation.
You can find out more about my company at CP
mindset dot com and we have we post a little
bit on social media at CP mindset, and we have
a newsletter that you can subscribe stuff like that. So
I'd love to hear from people what they got out
of the episode, what their favorite takeaway was. Obviously it
(47:12):
was interesting learning more about you know, our services, or
they can find the book on Amazon. Mindset first is
an easy, good starting spot as well. And yeah, again,
thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Me, doctor Casside Preston, thank you so much for joining me,
and thanks everybody for listening to another episode of the podcast.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Have a great day.
Hey everybody, I'm ZAEO Mednik and welcome to another episode
of blind Spot. This episode is sponsored by THEA Pharma Canada.
THEA pharm of Canada is the Canadian subsidiary of THEA,
Europe's leading pioneering and innovative eye health brand. Founded in
nineteen ninety four by Henri Chibre. With five generations of history,
the Chibret family has been dedicated to I care for
(00:32):
more than one hundred and fifty years. Their commitment to
improving lives is born of their pioneering spirit. They continue
to lead the worldwide preservative free movement in eye care.
They've created innovative delivery systems. They've focused on making products
accessible and cost effective for patients. They live this mission
every day because everyone should have the same opportunities to
see the world through healthy eyes. So thank you THEO
(00:55):
Pharmer Canada for supporting blind Spot. I'm joined today by
doctor Cassidy Press. Cassidy is a mental performance coach, author
and keynote speaker. He coaches elite athletes, teams, and high
performers to optimize their mindset. His approach is research based, progressive,
and personalized for each client. Cassidy runs CP Mindset, one
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of the largest mental performance coaching firms in the world. Cassidy,
Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thanks for hav Mesel. I'm excited to be here and
dive in.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I'm very excited to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And this is kind of a different topic than the
typical one we do on blind Spot. Usually we're talking about,
I guess, in some regards more boring things like clinical
diagnoses and different surgical procedures and some of our blind
spots there. But this episode is super important, I think,
and it's about some of the blind spots maybe in
some of our psychological processes.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And the way that we go about our work on
a day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And obviously we try to achieve high performance and everything
we do, but sometimes that may not be something we
necessarily unpack and think about.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
To start off, you're a high performance coach.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Talk to me a little bit about what you do,
who you work with, and just to give a sense
to people about who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, so I'll work mostly with athletes, So I'll work
with like professional athletes, NHL players, pro golfers, a variety
of sports as well as athletes trying to you know,
make it to the next levels and up and comers,
and I have a whole team you know, around me,
and that that also works with a variety of ages
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in sports as well. However, obviously that quickly translates to
working with business professionals or anybody dealing with pressure and
adversity and have really high internal standards because there's gonna
be noise, there's doubt, there's you know, fears that come up,
and it's having those processes within too to process that,
to deal with that so that they can be focused
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and in the moment and perform at their best consistently.
So that's kind of a co of who I work
with or and then how we do it. I'm sure
we're going to get a little bit more into that,
but that's a wide range of understanding anybody dealing with
pressure and adversities and having high standards. It comes with
the mental game. It becomes so important for them.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Most people listening to that are probably saying, Wow, that's
a really really cool job, and also thinking, wow, I
could definitely kind of use some advice in hintson, I'm curious,
and we'll get into this kind of what you say
to athletes? Because I love sports, and I'm sure sure
a lot of people love sports listening to this, and
I often wonder I'll watch somebody and I'll see them
have a bad game, and I'm thinking, obviously, they don't
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want to have a bad game, right, nobody wants them
a bad game, And obviously they come out saying I
want to do better? And what do you say to
that person? What would you say? Is one of your
main tenants in the idea of mindset first. There's obviously
a lot of psychology and a lot of principles that
go into what you teach and what you preach, but
what are some of the core tenets of what you
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think are most important for the athletes to deal with
to achieve the best they can?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, you know, there's probably a few different ways, and
even like trying to use your example of like what
do they do after they have a performance but you
know they're not happy with it? And and a huge
tenet of the mindset first approach is like it's an
inside out approach, meaning the main mistake where people really
start to get stuck in their own head, they're overthinking,
they're fearful, they're worried, you know, they start holding themselves back,
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you know, by their mindset and their mental approach. It's
usually because foundationally they're going outside in or what I'll
call results first, the whole priority, and everything revolves around like, well,
what do I want to achieve? What's the results? What's good? Like,
what's the outcome? And and the outcome therefore dictates how
they feel and they go outside in, meaning all right,
well here's the results. Here's what I got to do
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to get the results. And the last thing they'll folks
on is like, well, now who do I want to
be and how do I want to feel? But if
they never go inside out and they're always going outside in,
well then they're like emotional roller coaster and they're so
dependent on the external world and that's not a great
source of consistency because there's gonna be variability in the
outside world, and we want to stay steady, and that's
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why we want to go inside out. If you're a
fan of sports, this is why sports is so entertaining.
There is gonna be these highs and loves right so like,
and so it's like often with a pro athlet I'm
like you can't think like a fan, like fans are
out there going yay you like you can do you're
on the bench, like go on this emotional roller coaster
like it's it's not conducive. So one of these main
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tenants is, all right, well, let's go inside out. Let's
take a moment. Who do I want to be? How
do I want to show up? What are these trees?
What does that look like felix for me? And then
that leads to the actions and then we actually go
play in the outer world. Right, you have to go
actually get on the ice, get you know, do the
work and show up and get after it, and it
leads to the results. But we're flipping the priorities, we're
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flipping the approaches and spending some time to go inside
and get clarity first and foremost is a very powerful tool.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I love the way you phrase that, going inside out
and also just not going.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Results first, because the reality is when most people are
thinking about their performance, like, the end product is the results, right,
and if you don't get the results, especially in sports
or especially in surgery like we'll talk about, that is
going to be a problem. So it's naturally for it's
not for people's minds to go to results, because if
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the results aren't there, then there's going to be a problem.
You're going to get benched, you're going to lose your job,
or you're not going to be a good surgeon. I
guess one question that maybe relates to results as opposed
to mindset is something that's a very common advice in
life is just try your best, right, And a lot
of times i'm talking to someone, they'll say, listen, you're
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trying your best.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
You're doing your best.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And I imagine that athletes when they're having a bad day,
it's probably a good thing to say, you know, I
tried my best, I am trying my best. How do
you go into a situation where you want to have
them menta I'm going to try my best, but you
also at the same time have the mentality of I'm
going to be able to succeed, right, because sometimes the
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mentality of I'm trying my best maybe supersedes that I
am going to achieve well, and you need to kind
of coexist with both of those mentalities.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah. Well, I can look at it from a couple sides,
Like if we look at the after the fact, it's like, hey,
did you try your best? And it's like, yeah, but
the result matters. I try my best, but I didn't
get the result. And you know, trying to break down
that like internal conflict of like I'm trying my best,
but I'm not getting the result. Well, we want to
results are a form of feedback. It can be a
great form of feedback. Okay, well what can I do differently?
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How can I learn? And just because you're trying your best, well,
what does that really mean? Trying your best at what right?
And what we really like to get people do is
like setting standards for their preparation, for how they show
up for the parts of their game and their process.
It's like, hey, I gave my best. However, here's some
things that can now work on or adjust And sometimes
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you just give your best and you're fully prepared and
like life just happens, like things aren't going to go
their way, like it's the other team's trying to win,
or you know, there's complications and surgeries and so this
idea of you know, both things can matter and there's
it's just about the bottom line, just the results. Well okay, well,
like that's a pretty like and again you're gonna get
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that results first emotional roller coaster versus all right, well
who's that being? What was my standards of my process?
And then let's learn from it and adjust standards. Maybe
it's like, actually, I don't think I've had a high
enough standard for rehearsing here or for for this part
of my game. So I can that's something now I
can work on and evolve and learn. Now. On the
flip side, the before side, which you're alluding to, is like, well, okay,
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well I want the result, and I want to get
the result, but I want to be focused on doing
my best, but like.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
But I want the results exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So like that side is kind of like, you know,
there's there's you know that that can cause you to
go a little loopy, just trying to sort that out.
So the way one of my favorite analogies for this
is we want to be driven and detached. And so
an easy way to think about it is like even
like a golf your grip and golf, so you don't
want to squeeze it too hard. You can't fully let
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it go either, And so we want to be really driven,
which means we hold like there's we want the result
and we really care about it and we want our
athletes high performers to really want it. Like it's like
I sometimes people like, oh, you got to want it less.
I'm like, that's that's weird advice. Why would you ever
tell someone to want something less, like as if that's
the problem. No, the we want to be able to
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want it yet and at the same time be able
to let go and understand the range and detach and
and be able to see it for what it is
and zoom out. And so that's where we're like, we're
moving in and out to find the sweet spot of
the grip of Like now I'm going for what I
want and I'm doing it in a calm, grounded way
that I'm not dependent forcing trying to control it. And
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that's you know, again a lot easier for us to
say than to go and do. But it's definitely doable
and it's a never ending pursuit. And and having the
awareness and at tension, then what does that look like
in an individual? You know, there's some nuance and personalized
parts to it, but that's you know, from a high
level looking at on you know, deciphering on this side
versus then after the fact like it's like, oh, okay,
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well how'd I do? And you know, you got to
be able to process and we don't ignore the feedback.
So and you want to adjust and learn and you know,
be clear on what your standards are because sometimes like yeah,
I didn't get the result, and you want I'm not
happy with how I prepared so or you know, the
way I showed up in this area, So something to
learn and grow and push yourself so versus well I
get my best, Like what that's that's not a that's
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not a recipe for high performance. So yeah, we don't
want to make it all about the results because then
that you know, now you're going to hold on too
tight and be too tense.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So you're right in that there's kind of those are
two separate moments. One is before it's going on, what's
the mindset there? And then one is the mindset afterwards.
And that's where it's a little bit makes more sense
to say I tried my best and I'm going to
learn from it, but different than before you do it,
where you don't want to go in with the mentality
of just I'm going to try my best. You also
want to go in with the mentality of I'm gonna
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try my best, I'm gonna win.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, there's a lot of actionables.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I'm sure that you go over with your clients, with athletes,
whoever you're working with. And sometimes people will say in
terms of this idea inside out or outside in, that
you kind of have to change your mental processes and
that is then going to kind of guide behavior, maybe
not in this particular context. And then some people would say,
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and maybe they're not mutually exclusive, they would say, sometimes
you got to kind of just get out of your
mind completely and you need to just focus on the actions,
stop thinking at all, and once you kind of maybe
practice enough, repeat things enough, that's going to lead to
a change in your mindset. What's your thought process on
the cause and effect there?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, well that's a great question. I'll answer a few ways.
One is because even just use the last question, there's
the before and the after. We didn't really talk about
the during, Like I didn't specifically stay during, So like
what would I coach someone to do during? Well, it's
just be in the moment. It's just to go and
let it happen. We prepare, set our intentions, we rehearse,
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we go inside out before actually, so what we could
just be in the game, be in the moment, be
on the actions and so whereas I don't really want somebody,
especially an athlete, but and I have overly like thinking
and judging. It's it's a performance time. You're in the
moment adapting, you know, executing the game plan. You're focusing
on the task at hand, right and versus like, well
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I got to be thinking about like oh like like
that's not helpful. And sometimes we'll have someone come in
and because it is helpful to prepare and set your
intentions before and to be clear on who you want
to be and and know you want something and get
detached and stuff. I have this healthy, grounded preparation and
we do a lot of coping planning, like how are
you gonna respond to versity happens? How you gonna respond
if you feel the pressure, the fear or the you know,
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the different responses in your body, how will you adapt
in the moment? Well, all that prep you know, then
sets up and then it's like all right, well now
you got to let go and just go let it happen,
trust yourself and adapt along the way. So that kind
of starts to answer this middle part, which is obviously,
you know, super interesting and can unpack in a lot
of ways. But to go loop back to the first part,
we're you know, sometimes we'll see this with pro athletes
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and athletes of all levels and high performers. It's like,
never worked on the mental game yet, They've never had
a whole lot of mental game challenges, and they're just
like in it. But then all of a sudden, when
you're in it and you've never done any plan to cope,
and then you start facing like it can be very
hard to get yourself out. So that's the like the
challenge of like, well, I'm not gonna but if I
start thinking about it, well, now I'm going to think
about it too much. Yeah, I get it. Like if
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you open Pandora's box, now you can't unopen it makes
sense once you've seen what's in there and you've thought
about your mindset, we can't unsee it. But I would
rather be prepared and now you can adapt a lot better. Right,
And so because the a lot of the people come
to us is like they've never opened it, and then
all of a sudden they're like, I don't know what
to do, and they're spiraling as that makes sense. So
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the it's there's there's this process of like, hey, well
I want to understand it, but it doesn't need to
be complident, right, We're not trying to get people to
think a bunch. And it's like, okay, well now I
got to think about also the mental work I went
on plus the actions. I'm it's like, what's like, no,
Like we're doing the pre work right. Overthinking A good
way to look at it is overthinking is a symptom
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that you didn't think enough before, you weren't prepared enough,
so now your brain's trying to like compensate and figure
out a plan. And like, well, what should I be like,
Like you didn't think enough before. If we think and
plan to cope enough before, then as things come, we
just adapt and adjust along the way.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And on some level, it's basic in that you just
there's three phases, right, Therefore there's the juring thereafter. On
the other hand, I probably most of us don't break
it down like that, and I just already can see
how that would be helpful to break it down. I'm
gonna go into some ophalmology specific questions and I canvass
some people's opinions and thoughts and questions they had before
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doing this episode.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I obviously know some of my own.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I don't want to call them demons and be dramatic,
but related to operating. But I spoke to people and
got some of their questions, and one was related to
new grads, people who were coming out they've done their
ophthalmology residency or any surgical training residency really, And the
reality is, we know, based on studies that there's going
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to be higher complication rates in people who are starting
out by themselves, after doing their training right and they're
on their own.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Now, how would you coach.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
People to prepare for a higher complication rate? And again
that's not saying go into it thinking you're going to
have complications, But cataract surgeries are bread and butter surgery
and ophthalmology. A lot of us do other procedures as well,
but we'll focus on cataract surgery. And in cataract surgury,
you're going to get complications. And one of the complications
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i'll explain to you briefly is called a PCR, a
posterior capsule a rupture where basically the cataract think about
it as a smarty.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
This is what I tell patients.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We make a little opening in the smarty, we take
out all the chocolate, which is the lens. We keep
the shell, and then we put a new lens inside
the shell, which is called the capsule. Sometimes, though, the
shell can break and there can be a little tear
at the back of that shell, and that's what we
call a PCR, and that's not good. Sometimes when that happens,
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we can manage it so that it doesn't cause a
bad outcome, and sometimes we can't and it does cause
a bad outcome and the chocolate the lens falls into
the back of the eye. That's kind of the basic
way of saying PCR. Knowing you're going to have maybe
more of those, how would you coach somebody who's starting
off and saying, you know what, I'm stressed and I
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think my confidence is going to be shaken or my
confidence is shaken because I've had a few of those.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, so I'll go into the like the going in
part again where it's like, hey, I'm worried I might
get some. Right, So, whether they've had some recently or not,
or they just know they're they're young, like I don't
want to get some and well, a big part of
that is acceptance and so, which is a huge thing
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we do with athletes all the time. It's like, well
you can't accept you might not score in the next game.
I was like, well, maybe you shouldn't play like it's
like maybe hockey's not for you. Like there's this range
of results and be able to own and accept it
doesn't mean tolerate. It's just owning the situation. It's letting
go of the range. So now you can just go
do the work. And I remember as one of the
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first surgeons I told this to I don't think he
was an optometrist, but I think it's more radiology or
I forget the exact type of there's lots of complications.
He came up with this thing. I was like, oh, yeah,
well except that you might not get And I was like, well,
this is a little bit different. Especially with him, there
was like the life and death of his I was like,
I don't want you to be indifferent to the life
or death of your patients. I don't want you, know,
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you know, the surgeon here, to be indifferent to the
success and failure of the surgery. You want the result
that you want, you don't want this one. However, there's
a range of results, and if you can't accept that,
don't be a surgeon. Don't do the work. Like that's
it's the burden of being a doctor and a surgeon.
And now again you're gonna do everything in your power
to reduce that and learn from it. And when they
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do happen, there can be great learning moments and and
unpacking and it's it's obviously just part of the process.
I mean, you're doing difficult surgeries and you're learning, like
there's gonna be mistakes, and so there's that side of it.
And a big side of it too, is like collapsing
the fantasy nightmare. We do a lot with clients. So
the fantasy is like, well, I'm gonna be perfect and
the best surgeon ever and everything's just gonna be great
(18:44):
all the time. Like it's no, there's you know it.
You know, let's just say you start your career. I
know you got like you're like one hundred four hundred.
It's like, well, guess what, there's a lot of pressure
and expectations now to come with that. Like it's not
all sunshine and rainbows. Playing in the NHL being you know,
the best surgeon of all, Like there's challenges that come
with that, and vice versa, like oh well when you
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do face adversity or you get cut or things don't
work out as an athlete or a high performer, well
they could be great sources of great growth learning, you know,
defining moments that can really fuel you and help you grows.
It's just as a result based on the work I
come in, my ability to be present and then as
well as like the circumstances of the environment, the obviously
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the patient and their health and like, I'm sure that
stuff I don't know, but I'm sure there's things out
of your control that influence it.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
That acceptance piece is big, and I mean that obviously
goes on throughout your whole career and that you got
to accept it. But I guess as you're starting on,
as you're starting out, accepting happened a little bit more frequently.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's just like, well, if it
does or when it does, like, those are my learning opportunities.
It is what is part of the journey, like and
versus if you try to fight it, resistant and control it,
like now you're going to be more tense. You're thinking
about the outcome in the middle of this, like you're
not in the moment focusing on the task of hand
and process, which will actually increase your probability of making,
(20:07):
you know, a mistake. And so so there's that side.
And then the other side of like with the confidence
in the after the fact is you know, we do
this with athletes a lot, but it's like instead of
the word confidence, will use the word capabilities. So like
what confidence is is just somebody that owns their capabilities,
but often we associate confidence was like, well, I've had
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a few successful surgeries, so therefore I am confident, Right,
I have made a mistake, Therefore I shouldn't be confident anymore,
Like you're it's too short sighted, right, you're looking at
too small of a sample size, versus like you can
own your capabilities because of all of the training that
you've been doing, not because of how the last surgery went.
Like if that was the case, then anybody makes mistakes,
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they should be doubting themselves. So so there's that side
of it, and and it goes even into like imposter
syndrome as well. And I know as a common thing,
which you know, my mentor. Todd Herman does a you know,
a really good job of like you know you're you're
not an actual impostor. Like the wording itself is like
a bit of a misnomer because the people aren't actually
(21:10):
feel like they're an impost right. It's like if you
if you went to the med school, you got the degree,
you're like, you're not impostering. Like if I pretend to
be something I'm not, that's impostering. But like you just
feeling a significant level of like, oh do I belong here?
I don't know if I'm capable, But again I have
a lot of self doubt and confidence things. But again
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I would just frame it back to well, are you
owning your capabilities or not? It's like, no, right now,
I'm not owning my capability. Now again, you're going to
be developing your capabilities early on, right, Like it's it's
a learning process, and I'm sure it's probably fairly steep
as you're transitioning from residency to to run your own
practice and whatnot. So so the but but when we
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the language we use will dictate the mental state a lot.
And when you're like, oh, I have common these problems
like says who I'm saying about mysel and that becomes
a self perpetual and identity thing. I don't know if
I could deal with this adversity. It's like not again
accepting and owning that versus like, oh, well, I'm not
owning my capabilities right now? Well why not because I'm
worried about this or I'm new? Well like, yeah, you
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shouldn't own your capabilities when you're one year out of
residency or months out of it versus when you're ten
years out of it, like like this guy's got more capabilities,
Like that's just a fact.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Self perpetuating nature really speaks to me, and that there's
times when I know that it's really easy for you
to kind of tell yourself a story about yourself, and
then that story to really really just dominate the way
you think and the way you behave. And then you
realize one day, like why am I thinking like that?
I used to maybe go into an our day thinking
I'm nervous, like there's a guy next door who's operating,
(22:49):
and I mean, they're they're probably a little bit better
than me, and then something clicked. I was like, well,
I know what I'm doing. I'm fine, and just just
changing the story. It didn't actually change anything I was doing,
but it just made me feel a little bit more confident,
not over confidence, and there's that balance of not wanting
to feel over confident. You address that kind of balance
that you need to strike between humility and over confidence
(23:11):
somewhere in the middle. But it's really it's wild how
your brain can kind of tell you these stories sometimes
and then you can just get fixated on them for indefinitely.
In ophthalmology, one of the unique things is that we
operate in a lot of patients. A cataract surgery takes
on average about fifteen minutes, so a lot of surgeons
will do about twenty patients in a day, and a
(23:35):
lot of people, myself included. Let's say I do twenty
patients in a day and nineteen go great and one
does not go great.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I'll come home and that's a failure for me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And I'm not trying to say that in a pretentious
way like I'm perfect. It just the reality is in ophthalmology,
if you get the PCR that I'm talking about and
it goes south, you kind of say to yourself, well,
ninety five percent I should be having a PCR rate
of about one percent, not five percent, which is nineteen
(24:06):
out of twenty, which people can do math obviously. So
it's easy though to say, well, even though I had
a great day, it wasn't a great day because percentage wise,
I shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I guess there's two questions here. One during the day.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
If it's your fifth case, say okay, well I got
to move on. I got fifteen other patients I got
to operate on and be my best self. And then
two at the end of the day not overly exaggerate
that one moment and have it color the whole day.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, great question, and I love this stuff. I'd argue
or propose two very important things that to me are
like almost non negotiable, Like if you want to be
a high performer, I would have routines or preset response
for well, if or more so, when something happens midday adversity,
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how am I going to respond? So the solution will
be a few fold. One is first knowing how do
I what's my tendency to go? Do I shrink? Do
I go small? Do I panic worry? Do I kind
of like do I beat myself up? So knowing your
personalized response, Well, now we can create a solution to
breathe through you know, give yourself some space to process
(25:21):
that emotion so that you do get centered and back into,
like you said, your best self. So like there's you know,
we do it with athletes that have like a reset routine, right,
and it's and it uses acceptance, its ownership. It's using
breathing to manage their arousal level and then recommitting and
creating the story and the narrative to move forward. And
so you know, there's a lot that we can unpack,
(25:42):
but it's very personalized and it starts with knowing, Okay,
well how do I respond in this moment? Often my
tendency and if I feel this way and I start
going into that, well here's how I'm going to own this.
Not judge yourself for it too, because that's a common
trap if you start judging yourself or like I'm getting
frustrated or I'm doubting myself. Oh my god, I'm judging
and then you started like I'm like why am I
Why am I doubting myself? And now like you're definitely screwed.
(26:04):
Like that's a downward versus like have the self compassion,
be like I'm a human. Of course I'm like upset
that didn't work. Of Course I might feel a little
bit of doubt or worry or or feel a bit small.
That's okay. I can own this situation. And now who
do I how do I want to move forward? And
it's like, all right, well, I can use this to
learn and grow. You know, that's a I've got a
(26:24):
freshraguer here. Look at all the other things I've done,
Like I own my capabilities versus small. I make myself big,
you know, change your posture, you're breathing. It's all right,
let's move forward. The reset's done, you know, you like
I've had, like some of the surgeons doctors I work with,
they might have a part of their uniform is like
a key part of their like you know, we're talking
like alter egos, which is like an identity basings. All right,
(26:45):
let's lock it back in now, like you've done a
little reset, lock it back in before the next one.
So I would have something like that. And I bet
you know the surgeons that have been around, you know,
the you know, there's a lot of them, will have
something like that. They have a little routine, I'm sure
or that they probably almost do between everyone, let alone,
you know, especially a tough one on the flip side
(27:06):
at the end of the day and not letting that
eat you up forever or just ruin the rest of
your weekend or day or week or whatever. Is making
sure you have a decompression. So like we do this
with that, like how do we decompress after a game? Right?
How do we compartmentalize? And that's that phase three, Right,
there's phase one. How do we prepare, set dead intentions,
(27:26):
know who you want to be. You're creating the identity
and the plan, and then we let go and just
let it happen. Phase two and we have to adapt.
That's the reset routine and adapt along the way and
you stay in it well after how do we reflect
what we how can we learn? How can we process
own it and then park it because like a huge
mistake high performers do is they will ruminate about it
(27:48):
forever and so end we're as humans, we're predispositioned to
focus on like you know, thread adverse, like you know,
whereas I screw up and make sure that we overly
we were designed to focus on the negative way more
than the positive, right, so therefore part of them what
you do is like write down your wins, Like I'm
a huge advocate of everyone, Like, write down your five wins,
Like what went well today? Oh yeah, I remember this.
(28:09):
I connected well with that patient. I did a good
adaptation here, like I crushed this one. Like like, no
matter how tough of a day, write down what went well.
If you, especially if you're somebody that finds themselves getting
always replaying the negativity, Like just build that practice in
because if we want to be a high performer that thrives,
that's helpful. If you're trying to just survive, yeah, don't
(28:29):
focus on what's going well, Like you're in survival mode.
You're in the woods, Like where's the danger? Like like
I did need to survive. You're not in survival mode.
You're in trying to thrive and maximize impact and be
a high performer. So to fuel that growth and certainty
and confidence, it's like it's like, hey, own your capabilities,
own it every day, own the winds, like it creates
(28:50):
its own internal momentum. So just that practice will help
subset it a bit. And then it's like all right, well,
what can I learn what could I do differently and
process it and then part and be like, all right,
it's over now shift gears, get into family mode, you know,
friends mode, like sport mode, whatever you want to do.
So but I would have a process so that it
(29:10):
helps eliminate or at least reduce the never ending another Yeah,
I don't get. But one other quick analogy to it
too you could maybe use is like there's the surgeon
hat that goes and does the surgery, and then there's
like a manager hat that's like manages the surgeon's career,
manages there like and we do this with athletes. It's like, hey,
(29:31):
it's managing expectations, it's and so it's like shifting gears
from you know, in the business world, be like the
guy scooping the ice cream that just you know is
out there, is delivering. That's the athletes is just they're
just the employee just getting it done, where sometimes they
got to put the manager hat on, being like, well
should we scoop ice cream here? Which like, you know,
do I need to ask for trade? You know, managing
you know, my house playing time going to go? So
(29:52):
they're they're managing. That's very different mindset traits like logic, strategic,
et cetera. This kind is like in it passion in
the moment, so you might be wearing a different hat
as well in this mode.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
One of the things, especially in sports, and I guess
in surgery is I'm thinking even not necessarily even between cases,
but even during a case, in terms of implementing that
routine and knowing what it's going to be. Sometimes that's
got to be done really really quickly, right Like I'm
thinking if a running back in football fumbles the ball
and they've got maybe five minutes before they're back on offense,
(30:28):
or in surgery, if you have a complication and then
you've still got fifteen patients to operate on for the
rest of.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
The day, that process it's got to be quick.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So is there enough time to have I guess depending
on who you're dealing with, the process can be a
little bit different. And like you said, tailored, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah for sure. So and I'll use this so like
in between patients you might have like what two to
five minutes, five to ten minutes max. So that's more
than enough time to do a like to give yourself
the space to do a routine like these routines. You know,
we generally make them like fifteen to thirty seconds, but
you can take make it longer. Now in surgery, you're
(31:10):
not doing a reset routine. You then want to do
coping plan, Like, well, if it's going in that moment,
I just take a breath and adapt right, like I'm
going to I'm not going to panic and go down
this road. I'm going to stay down and stay present.
It's like, this is what I signed up for. Like,
let's stay in it right and keep trusting and adapting
along the way, versus start hitting the panic button. That
makes sense. Like that was like one of the surgeons
(31:32):
I work with, like that was his thing, and he
had it's thought that he was doing poor. Surgeon was
actually a you know, pretty you know, higher level surgeon.
But he was like, but his heart rate would go
up and especially like in his like you know, he's
getting nervous right like in it, and so it wasn't
really hurting his performance. But he's like, I don't feel
locked in all the time, like as locked in as
maybe I could. And so as he was able to
(31:54):
pre accept the range of results, he had a plan
to cope with. Well, if he got the fear of
you know, the intern you know, or the resident not
doing as well, or complication happening. They got to like like,
you know, whatever his types of surgeries he was doing,
he had a plan to cope with it. So then
he was like, well then when it happens is like,
oh he stayed gone right, And so that's less of
(32:15):
a reset routine. That's just well, this is this is
how I plan to cope in that moment. I just
take a breath and I just you know, I embrace
it and go with it versus panic and like start
judging myself and be oh my god, this is all bad.
It's like it's just part of the job. And and uh,
I remember like he used like the Gladiator like he
was like like it was his was like his alter ego,
and he wanted to be very stoic obviously and some
(32:36):
things like that. So being being intentional about who he
wanted to be and how he wanted to spawn a
different moment. So that's kind of a very that might
be more applicable to your audience too, around like like
what are you doing in surgery versus then in between,
like the in between one might be like, oh I
might you know, take the glasses off or whatever. I
you know, just take a second, I go breathe, you know,
do like five deep diaframatic breasts and process it and
(32:59):
a lot of go and you know, you get some
time and space to process the emotion and let it
go and then move forward and set your intention again,
or you haven't got time, like I got time, you know,
like the guy on the But it can happen in
a moment. But if you have time and the space,
like create the time and space to and again, the
(33:19):
emotions in our body, if you own them, process them,
they'll dissipate. Like it's the chemical Like I'm sure you
know this better than I do. It's the chemical reactions
that are happening, Like they won't linger forever if you
deal with them. But if you hold on to it,
you're like, oh, yeah, that was shit. I'm an idiot.
I suck. Like now you're gonna keep playing the narrative,
like you'll stay tense and word and fearful more so
the rest of the day. If that makes.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Sense that that reset obviously is different. That's kind of
in between cases, not during the case. You can reset
between the case and reassuring what you're saying that it
doesn't need to take like an hour. Ideally, these are
designed for situations like this where you might only have
a minute or a couple of minutes where you can
do that reset routine and then during the case you right,
it's really easy when you see and a PCR what
(34:03):
I explained to for is a good example because it
can go south really quickly or can be fairly a
non issue if you deal with it well. And I
think what that comes down to is one what you've
described is don't get into your head and start saying
I'm a bad surgeon, this is awful, this is going
to be a bad day. And the other thing is
kind of the pre planning acceptance that that's going to happen,
(34:24):
and also pre planning and having the skills to deal
with it. And if you're in the right mentality, then
you're going to be able to kind of go into
your tool bag a little bit more easily and deal
with the situation better. How do you prepare for a
big moment? I mean, in sports, there are big games.
In surgery, every patient matters, of course, and every patient
(34:47):
is equal, but some of us live in communities where
we're kind of forced to operate on people we know.
You know, you try, some people don't try, but most
of us try to not operate on people we know
for many reasons. But there's situations where there's going to
be a surgical case which is either on somebody that
you're nervous about or the nature of the case is
more challenging. Do you have any specific advice on not
(35:09):
letting a moment be too big?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, for sure. So it's again, you want to personalize
that well, how like A common example is then, well,
like how do you feel in that moment? So again,
I might feel like I'm small the moment so big,
I get fearful, I get like a little timid, I'm
like less confident, and you kind of all go almost
like too cautious, like like I could see this as
a surgeon is like if you go too slow, Like
(35:36):
I don't know, like does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Like there's a patient I was operating on yesterday who said,
before surgery, I just want this to go well quick
and get a great result fast. This is right before
I'm operating, And I noticed as I started operating, my
mental process is changing and thinking and then reflecting afterwards,
how did that affect the way I did it?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Right? And it's natural that I realize, do you know what?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I was taking a little bit more time on a
couple of steps, And I don't know if that was
necessarily a.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Good thing, taking more time.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I think that made me feel like I was giving
the extra care because she was making me a little
bit stressed out.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
But that was deviating from my typical routine.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, And so it's like so and at
that's point, so it's like, oh, I I get cautious
and not going to try and go slower, which is
like Mike is like, no, like the like, what's like,
I really I'm a butcher trying to explain, trying to
explain what you do. But I'm like, it's like.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
There's certain steps where it's not always better, right, there
are certain steps where you need to be decisive, and
slowing down takes away from that decisiveness of your movement.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah. Yeah, and then your hand might shake or like
what like you know what I mean, like as you're
sorry to force yourself. So that's all like we call
it forcing and controlling versus letting it happen and but so,
but knowing that feeling and then you can be intentional
to like, okay, normalize it, accept it, embrace it, so
that you can now all right, let that and go to, well,
how do I want to like decisive? Confident? Certain, So
(37:05):
knowing that matters. But if you're making it bigger than
you and you're still you're therefore you get small. So like, well,
I'm gonna make myself like I can deal with this.
This is it's We use zoom out a lot as well,
so it's like I'm gonna make myself big. I'm gonna
zoom out on the situation because if you zoom in
on it, it feels huge and big. Oh my god,
this is so important. It's like it's just another patient.
Of course, it's different. The context is different. It's like
(37:26):
going into playoffs and sports, it's like, yeah, the context
has changed. It seems bigger, but it's still just sport.
Makes sense, like it's still just a game, and you know,
the net's the same size, the game's the same and
so being able to zoom out is a helpful way
to give perspective and therefore not zoom in and feel
the weight of it. So it's like, okay, well, knowing
(37:47):
that shift that I'm kind of gonna zoom out and
stay big and own it. I'm gonna be decisive, not
be hesitant. Like now you can step into that. So
that's one way of you know, a quick way of
like knowing that contry and again so then when you
get there, it's like, all right, let's step into it now.
One of the other things that I haven't said I've said,
but I haven't really explained, is I love the words
(38:10):
letting go. So this really comes from those a bunch
of different places let go and let it happened comes from.
But one of my favorites is Phil Stutz, who's you know,
done some great work in the field, and he uses
a lot of like tools and analogies to paint a picture.
And so the idea of what that looks like is
very much you could think of like before a surgery,
(38:32):
before a game for an athlete. You're at the top
of this mountain, and so again phase one, you want
to be really prepared. You're prepared to jump off this
mountain and do this cliff dive, which is kind of scary,
and there's you're going to land at the end of
the of the game, at the end of the cliff dive,
at the end of the surgery, either a result you
like or don't like. There's two ends, right and and
there's everywhere in between. And the point being is, well,
(38:53):
you're at the top of this cliff. You're like, hey, well,
time to jump off and let it happen and let go,
and and what happens We don't let go and we
hold on. Like so you're hold on the rope, You're like,
this is I'm trying to control myself to perfectly get
this result because it matters so much and I want
it so much. But then what happens. You're not letting
it happen. You're not like, you're not actually gonna perform
(39:14):
as well. And so Phil Stuts is a great analogy
of like, hey, imagine yourself in the top. There's this
range of results. No matter what, you'll be okay, you
can deal with this range. You're holding on the rope,
just let go and free fall, just fall off the cliff,
and you know when you let go, you're like, all right,
let's goote le let it go, and now let it happen.
Now go with the flow. And now you know, just
(39:35):
trust your training and your skills and and do the
sky diving, you know whatever. To influence, which is a
keyword versus control. It's like influence yourself to get the
optimal result, like let yourself perform in a way and
so and again, like you can play with the different words,
like we use influence and control Like some people I
(39:56):
want control. I don't want to. But it's like but again,
if you're someone that's struggling with like trying to force
and control, especially in those moments where you feel there's
a lot of pressure, it's like, I like, let me
trust myself and let it happen. Let me let go
before because the otherwise you were not gonna shift from
phase one to phase two. And again remember key to
phase two. You're not thinking, you're just letting it happen. Well,
(40:16):
you won't do that if you don't let go. Yeah,
makes sense. So we do this prep to prepare ourselves
so that we optimize the probability of the result and
to show up the way you want. But then we
still have to let go. You got to jump off
the cliff and like just get into it. Like now
you've shifted gears and you're in in phase two. So sorry,
but that's why I looked at it.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
There's so many different gears that you need to be
in at different stages, which you've really explained really well, right,
Like some of.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
The advice you're giving is, as we spoke about at
the beginning, it's before you're operating, before you're playing a game,
and then that is to prepare you to go and
dive in the actual game or in the surgery and
get out of your head.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
You got to do work in your head and be
in your head at one point, but then you got
to get out of your head.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
And it's changing.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
But it's also kind of compartmentalizing when it's valuable to
think and when it's valuable to not think. Kind of
one question that somebody asked me was about routine. And
we've talked a bit about routine. But let's say in
an operating room day, a lot of people will go in,
they'll put their music on, they'll kind of have their
routine of scrubbing their hands, or everybody's got their own thing.
(41:26):
Maybe they'll say something to themselves, something weird or who knows,
and they said, is it helpful to have that routine?
And my first thought was, I would imagine it is
helpful to have routine, But they also said, is it
maybe unhelpful because if you get into a routine and
you keep doing things the same way, you might be
missing something, or by doing the same thing for every case,
(41:49):
you might be missing the subtleties and differences between different cases.
What are your thoughts on the importance of establishing a
routine before a game for a hockey player, for example,
or for a surgeon before they're operating.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, great question. So I'll explain the quickly, like routines
versus superstitions. So and you think of like more when
we're thinking mental prep, routines are very helpful, right when
we're thinking of actually tactical prep, right or technical prep
about how you're going to do the surgery and like
reviewing the case and visualizing it or whatever. Like you know,
(42:26):
I do think there's there could be some personalized like Okay,
well I'm doing this type of surgery, or this is
the situation, or this is the well, like I know
I'm going to make this Like I'm sure there's some
differences in certain cases that therefore you could tactically I
would probably tactically prepare differently for But when we're just
thinking general routines like okay, the timing the things I say,
(42:48):
or how I approach and how I want to look
and feel the music routines are very helpful. The caution
is always be careful to start creating superstitions. It's like, well,
because I time I choose this way, like I get
like it's like that causes me to do like oh
like like that's not like but it's easy to like
get almost superstition, which then becomes a problem when like,
(43:08):
oh well I couldn't do the routine the way I
wanted to, and then you start spiraling.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I was going to ask what the danger was with superstitions,
because so what somebody has a weird superstition. But if
you're saying I got to wear these socks for this,
and then you're not wearing the socks one day, then
it actually turns into an issue.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
So it's a routine. There's and there's there is helpful
like it's like hey, you know, I'm sure you have
like special caps and whatever. Like it's like one day
it got missing or it's dirty. It's like okay, well,
that doesn't cause me like it's just part of it.
It's a comfort thing. But I can adapt and do without.
Does that make sense if I if I have to so,
But having those it's from a consistency standpoint, I want
to show up consistently in a certain state, so I
(43:50):
can use certain routines and flows leading up to to
get me into the arousal state, to get me into
the mental for optimal performance. So big fan of routines
for that. And again including one of those main routines
should be setting the intention, being clear of like well,
who do I want to be? How do I want
to show up? And what does that look like? And
(44:11):
and the coping planning with it too, well, if this
happens or if I feel that way, how will I respond?
You got you know? You do? You know? Five minutes
of mental prep at the start of your day and
setting like it is crazy helpful for consistency. So and
then again doing a bit of five minute decompression reflection
at the end of day, like that's like that's all
we're asking. Like I think to a degree it's not
a lot of time energy, but it's a little bit
(44:32):
for a consistency in your performance, but also even just
your well being.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Cassidy, do you have any final thoughts that you would
leave people with just on trying to be high performers?
Speaker 2 (44:43):
You know, one maybe one thing we haven't touched on
too much is like staying connected to why you do
it is always going to be your greatest source of
confidence focus. And it's like, you know, and even especially
in this kind of work, like you know, I didn't
allude to it. I was thinking of it earlier, but
like the villain hero kind of analogy, it's like, in
a way, you get to be a hero a lot
for a lot of people. Does that make sense? So,
(45:04):
but what comes with that? Sometimes somebody ain't gonna be happy.
So it's like like that's just part of the role.
Like it's same for pro athletes, right, Like they get
to sometimes they think they're a hero, but then sometimes
they're the villain, and like you can't get one without
the other. And so it's like in the reality is
you know, you're just going out there and and you're
doing something you love to do and there's a meaningful
(45:26):
impact with that versus again having to oh, well that
means my life will be great all the time and
positive and this is being like, no, there's there's no
role in the world that's just sunshine rainbows all the time.
Like there's challenges that come with that, and so but
knowing why you're doing it, you know, that's what it is.
Saying connected to that and that can be part of
that mental prep is like you don't need to don't
(45:47):
even need words. It's an experience and a feeling. It's
people's it's it's a you know, the patient that said
something to you, or it's the you know, the end outcome,
or it's the experience, or there's a moment early on
you're like, yeah, this this matters to me. Instaying connected
to that goes a long way to keeping someone grounded
and focused and motivated alone confident and knowing that, you know,
(46:09):
having that meaningful experience along the way.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Cassidy Preston, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Really really valuable.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Insight, not just for optimology, but just kind of for
life and how to deal with challenges and like you said, life,
I don't know, there's a bit of a misconception. I
think that life is you know, supposed to be rosy
great all the time and you're dealing with a lot
of people who are in those moments where life is
not rosy, and especially with athletes where it's publicly not rosy,
and kind of just accepting that, realizing that's what life is,
(46:37):
and what are the mental techniques we can use to
deal with those tough moments and then the actual habits
we can create. Cassidy, where can people learn more about
you and your company?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, thanks, so it's been a pleasure of having this conversation.
You can find out more about my company at CP
mindset dot com and we have we post a little
bit on social media at CP mindset, and we have
a newsletter that you can subscribe stuff like that. So
I'd love to hear from people what they got out
of the episode, what their favorite takeaway was. Obviously it
(47:12):
was interesting learning more about you know, our services, or
they can find the book on Amazon. Mindset first is
an easy, good starting spot as well. And yeah, again,
thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Me, doctor Casside Preston, thank you so much for joining me,
and thanks everybody for listening to another episode of the podcast.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Have a great day.
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