Gypsy (1962) Gypsy Rose Lee, June Havoc, Ethel Merman, Natalie Wood, & Rosalind Russell

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Us name Rulers, that's pleasure representing, that's lovely news star
This Gypsy rose Lee.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello, everybody, My name's Gypsy.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
What's yours?

Speaker 4 (01:12):
Mamo mamoo, Hello everybody, and welcome to Book versus Movie,
the podcast where we read books that have been adapted
into movies and then we try to decide which we
like better, the book or the movie. I'm Margot pafcoloniabook
dot com and this is my good friend to co
host Margo d or Brooklynvitchick. Hi, everyone, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

(01:33):
This is March, and in March we do musicals, and
we are doing a major musical today. We're going to
be talking about Gypsy, and it's going to be very exciting.
I cannot wait. We're barely going to scratch the surface
because there's so many wonderful details that go into this
particular musical and we'll get to all of that in

(01:53):
a minute. But if you're brand new, yes, this is
a podcast where we talk about oh sorry, my dog,
that's okay, someone's walking by. We talk about films that
have been adapted from really any kind of original source.
As long as it's an adaptation, we will consider it.
If it's a novel, a play, a magazine article, short story, fiction, nonfiction,

(02:17):
a poem, a song, we will consider it as long
as we can get our eyeballs on the original material
for cheap or free, and as long as the movie
is streaming on a major platform. We are constantly looking
for suggestions for new episodes coming up. We are. We're
still rounding out musicals in March. We're going to have
mysteries in May. Later on in the year, we have

(02:39):
spooky movies in October, and then holiday movies, so and
then a whole bunch of stuff in between that we
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(03:00):
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(03:21):
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Speaker 3 (03:43):
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Speaker 4 (04:18):
Now, when we do a play to a movie, which
we've done, we did it last week, and we've done
it many times now, it just happens pure coincidence that
last week's episode and this week's episode is each film
is based on a Broadway musical, which is based on
an actual book. But that's not always the case. Sometimes

(04:39):
we'll consider, though, doing an adaptation of just straight up play,
like we did with August Wilson. This case, though we
do have a source book. We're going to be talking
about nineteen sixty two's Gypsy, starring legendary Roslind Russell, Natalie Wood,

(05:01):
Carl Maldon, come on, and een seaweed see and Jillian.
It's a living.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
It's not that Frenchy Viera.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Believe me.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Life's not a charity, bar oh. I know, it's a living.
And I'm a big Anglian fan. I was ten when
that show was on the air, and I was obsessed
with Angelian. I thought she was the coolest, sexiest thing.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
She is spectacular ever, and she is She's Yeah, well
we'll get to that in a minute. When we talk
about the film, how wonderful she is.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
I apologize for the singing, by the way, everybody, but that's.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
Oh there's gonna be a lot of it.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Just let you know, Uh, we have zero restraint. This
goes right to the pleasure center in my brain.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Oh yeah. So the musical, the hit musical Sondheim Lawrence
Vehicle and we'll talk about all that in a minute,
was based on the memoir of Gypsy aka Rose Louise Kvic.
We're gonna, We're gonna, I was just saying before we

(06:08):
got on the air. I did something a little bit
different this time because I've already read I've already read
her memoir and I also have read them the first
two memoirs of her sister, June Havoc. She changed her
name to Havoc when she went to Hollywood. Uh So
this time to prepare, I read the book the biography

(06:28):
of Gypsy Rose Lee called American Rose by Karen Abbott
that came out like na tenish years ago. So I
have some of the other little tidbits that have come up.
And before we talk about the memoir, we just just
to be if you love this musical as we do,
you know, they took a lot of liberties. And that's okay,

(06:50):
because so did the author of the source material. Yeah,
let's talk about miss Gypsy rose Lee.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
So she was born Rose Louise Jovic, as Margo says,
January eighth, nineteen eleven.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
I'm going to put you right there because yes, not
only do we not know when exactly she was born,
so their mom who is Yes, okay, yes there are
liberties taken in the show, as we said, but by
everybody's account, she was the mother of all stage mothers,
and for better or for worse, you know, to the

(07:27):
point where like she literally may have committed a couple
of murders, just a couple of murders. So in the
Karen Abbott book, there's a picture of her birth certificate
and it shows that when Gypsy who and again we're
using the word gypsy not to mean an actual person,

(07:49):
a romani person. This is the term that was applied
to her. It meant somebody who never settled down and
moved from place to place, and it was her entertainment
stage name. So we're going to be throwing it around
a lot. Apologies, But anyway, Gypsy's original birth certificate name
on her original birth certificate was Ellen June. Oh, because

(08:13):
that was a name that Mama Rose really loved. And
then a few years later when she has dainty baby June.
When she has that baby, she's like, oh no, this
baby's Ellen June, and she changes the first Ellen June's
name to Rose Louise.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Oh my god, I know, diabolical.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
So Mama Rose, I know. So Mama Rose was very
fast and loose with the birth certificates, would change the
girl's birth dates to either make them seem younger or
make them seem older to avoid child labor laws because
she was putting, especially Junie. She was putting Junie on
the stage at like two. So so this is what

(08:57):
we think this is, even they were not completely sure.
So yes, this is when we believe that Gypsy was born. Yes,
born in Seattle, Washington. A couple of years later, her
sister June was born, and June became comes June Havoc,
but spelled differently. Rose and I don't know what the
deal was with Rose and her husband, but.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
She was.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
The husband was a he was he worked for it
in the newspaper industry. He was like an ad salesman
for the local newspaper and the Seattle Times.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Right, and.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah, they divorced. It's not really clear like did he
leave them. We don't really know quite the details. This
sort of legend that evolves is that June, I mean Rose,
Mama Rose is left by all of the men in
her life eventually. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Right, So she has a few marriages and divorce, but
she's mostly obsessed with her daughters, and especially the younger
one who's blonde and very cute and has a lot
of stage presence. So she takes them on the road
and as Margo said, sometimes she pretends they're older, sometimes
she pretends they're younger, just like she said, depending on
the room.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
And they go.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
They do this vaudeville show around the country, and baby
June becomes really really popular.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Genuinely becomes a vaudeville sensation. Mama Rose takes June to
takes the girls, both the girls I think to have lava.
I believe to say, like, look at my girls, look
how talented they are. And I can't remember if it's
she takes the girls around and there again, June is

(10:44):
teeny tiny, she's like two three years old. Look at
my baby June. She can dance on toad point like
ballerina's and look at her go And every expert that
she showed this to was like, yes, your daughter super talented.
Get her out of the toe shoes. You're going to
destroy her feet. And she yeah, she'll be able to
toe dance for like a little bit, but then never

(11:05):
again for the rest of her life, like stop it.
And Mama Rose was like la la la, la, la la,
and through her baby June on the stage in tow
shoes dancing on tippy toe like a ballerina again before
she could read, well, before she could read. There is

(11:27):
it's very grainy because June also made movies. She also
she's dragging these kids all over the country, all over
the circuit. And June gets cast in a few movies
in Hollywood, notably with what's his name is it? Max Roach? Yes,
Hal Roach, one of the roaches, one of the little

(11:48):
you know, the our gang guy. And also she gets
cast in a movie with Harold Lloyd, who was a
humongous deal. And so there is a very very grainy
uh copy of the movie that she made with Harold Lloyd,
which I'm forgetting the name of it, just off the
top of my head. But we'll put it in the

(12:10):
Facebook group. And you even though it's super grainy, when
she she shows up and she does her little ballot,
it is magical. I'm even all grainy and stoppy and
you know, jiggity jaggedy with the silent movie. It's it's pretty.
It's pretty spectacular.

Speaker 6 (12:29):
She was special.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
She was absolutely special. And so June gypsy excuse me.
Rose was like her backup, was her you know, was
her sidekick on the stage. And she did things to
allow her younger sister to thrive. And so the two
of them were on the road, and their mother put
them on the road, and they weren't getting a proper education. Now,
for Rose, she was very very smart, very precocious. She

(12:53):
would just we were just talking to you about going
to the library and just looking up stuff for fun,
like that's what she would do. And she was a
racious reader and chronicler and a writer. And so they
they didn't you know, they were parapatetic. They were going
from town to town to town, and then eventually the
stark you know, they're they're getting older, these girls are

(13:14):
getting older. It's so around the mid twenties. Also, their
mother was not a nice person. She I mean, she
is the stage mother of all stage mother. She just
was not interested in their long term health benefit comfort.
It was everything did not brush their teeth right. Everything's
about the immediate. It was just about the gig that

(13:35):
night and how much they're going to get paid, and
then where are they going to get next. That's how
she lived. And I can't imagine as a kid that
must have been so stressful.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
At one point June again, tiny child comes down with
the measles and they've been invited to some kind of
you know, networky sort of party, and the moms just
like slapping makeup on this kid with the fever and
dragging her off to this party. Yeah. So yeah, you're right.
It's it's in the mid twenties and they're they're all

(14:04):
over their ping ponging all over the country. Now at
this point, Rose is involved with a man named Murray Gordon,
and he's really the one who is the the the
guy in the Guy in the musical is sort of
a pastiche of several men, but mainly this guy Murray Gordon.
And Murray Gordon comes along into Rose's life and he's like, uh, yeah,

(14:28):
they really, they really should be in school. Rose is uh.
I'm sorry. I get the names switch around so much
it's hard to keep who's straight. I'm just going to
call her Gypsy even though nobody's calling her Gypsy. Then
Gypsy is the only one of them who has any
time in school. She does spend a little time in school,
but she does enjoy reading, as you said, and she says,

(14:51):
I think in her memoir about like how the other
kids said she was stuck up because she she always
had her nose in a book.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
And she's kind of stuck up. She's sucking mud. Yeah, yeah,
because she she did she ever, and she was very tall.
I think she was just she just carried herself differently.
Her younger sister was blonde and dainty, and like the
tiny and tiny and talented and Gypsy. Nobody knew what
her talents were. It wasn't in singing and dancing, so

(15:17):
they and that's all they did, so they didn't really
understand like she was actually taking everything in and she
was actually a very clever person and could think on
her feet really quickly and could say something that could
get people interested in her. So her talent was her charisma.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
I do you think the main takeaway, Yeah, of having
read her memoir and June's memoir and now this biography.
For me, the big takeaway is both of these girls
are I mean to say nothing of the mom. The
mom's very resourceful, but these two girls are extremely intelligent,

(15:54):
both of them. When they talk about their childhoods in
their respective memoirs, it's really impressive. First of all, they're
both really good writers. I don't know if they had
ghostwriters or what. I do not know, but both of
them are very Both of them memoirs are super well written.
In my opinion, they have great editors of nothing true, yes,

(16:15):
but they both of them in their own way are
very aware of everything that's going on around them and
are putting pieces together that the adults are trying to
keep hidden from them. They're super smart. Both of them
are super super smart, and both of them did different
things that they needed to do to survive and get
out of that situation. But yeah, it's I was just

(16:41):
really impressed by how bright both of these girls are. Right.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
So we're getting to that around nineteen twenty eight, and
that's when the younger sister, June marries one of the
dances or one of her backup dancers and takes off,
and she gives interviews later on, and she says sometimes
she says she was twelve, sometimes she says she was fourteen.
The mother, like they said, they didn't really even know

(17:06):
how old they were. They weren't like that sure, but
they think she was around sixteen, which was in nineteen
twenty eight. That's not really that unusual for someone to
do that. So she gets married and leaves, so then
it's just Rose and her mother and they're figures.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah, oh, I was just gonna mention. Yeah, So when
June elopes and again she's super young. And as Margo said,
something we need to know about all three of these women.
They all lie or they all mess with the truth.
And it's not just like the Roschamon she saw it

(17:41):
this way, she saw it that way, this person saw
it another way. They are there's this impenetrable fortress of
what actually happened that none of them are willing to
pry open for anybody.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Evasive.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
So as yeah, So, as Margo said, like when June
would be asked about this early marriage, she was always
really yeah, really evasive about how old she was. She
did say that she she lied about her age to
the registrar person who was doing it, but she doesn't,
you know, yeah, she could be she could be twelve
for all we know, right, and however young she was.

(18:22):
I believe, I believe this is what happened, that Rose
did find them and have them arrested or have the
police get them. And they similar to the way they
talk about it in the musical, like they weren't really
able to do anything legally about it. And the police

(18:43):
are there with this crazy family situation going on, and Rose,
you can imagine, Rose is screaming her head off, and
and the police officer whose presence says like, okay, you know, listen,
this is it is what it is like. It can't
be undone, you know, Mama Rose, you got to accept
what you got to accept what's going on here. Just
can we just all make just make peace as a family,

(19:04):
and and you know, shake hands, and Mama Rose is like, okay,
all right, and she Jerry the guy's name, I don't
know if that's his real name, but the you know,
the stage, her new son in law, Yeah, she would
give them all new names. Her new son in law
reaches out her hand. She pulls out a gun and

(19:25):
the police like, whoa no no, And in some store,
at some accounts, she shot him, and in other accounts
she did and then the police stopped her. So there's
all kinds of bananas rumors that are flying around, and
some may be true and some may not be true.
There's a rumor at some point that uh, Mama Rose

(19:47):
may have pushed a hotel manager out of a window.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Right, that she was a lesbian and ran a boarding
house that had lesbian.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
Think is true?

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Right?

Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah? That she she definitely does seem to have dallied
with women. She did run a boarding house. It does
seem to have been a boarding house where a lot
of lesbians stayed. Yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
And so June has a I think she does have
her first child with the first husband, unless my memories remember,
I'll look at it. They break up around nineteen thirty two,
So this is the depression. So everything is changing. Movies
are starting to take off in America because that's the
one place people can all go to a ford to
get some entertainment. And Gypsy is doing her best to

(20:28):
figure out what vaudeville is next, and she and her
mother are desperately making a living. June goes on the
dance hall circuit and then they have these contests where
you danced until you literally fell to the floor and
the last person who made it would make the money.
And there's a movie called They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
Which I saw when I was ten and me too. Yeah, traumatized, traumatized.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
So that's it.

Speaker 6 (20:51):
I know.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
My brother John used to say, why do you Margot
cover that one? I'm like, I don't know if I
could do that again.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
Oh, it's I don't think I could. I've never read
the book, no, nor because I read June Havoc's book,
and her account on it is heartbreaking heart. I mean
it's it sounds exactly like they Shoot Horses, Don't They?

Speaker 5 (21:11):
Right?

Speaker 4 (21:12):
But that is based on a book that was written
at the time, and it's but you've ever seen that,
that is what June was doing. And America was.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Kind of desperate too. It was just very very hard times.
So Gypsy Rose is like figuring out who she is
and they go in this entertainment circuit and they're around
these strippers that do a strip tease and then they
kind of encourage her. Why don't you give it a try,
and like we said she did. She wasn't the most beautiful.
I mean, I think she was gorgeous personally, but she was,

(21:42):
but everything's compared to her younger sister. But she couldn't dance,
and she wasn't very that kind of thing. But she
could do enough movement to kind of fake what she wanted,
yea and thing well enough, right, And was a very
good talker, that's the thing. And she could connect with
an audio and she could make them just like hang

(22:03):
on her every word, every movement, and so she just
would get very elaborate with it. And so she then
becomes this huge deal in the meantime, her sister June
like after that circuit, she eventually gets a career in
Hollywood working in films and on Broadway. Oh yes, and
June writes a play. Julie Harris, who was good friends

(22:25):
with her encourages heard about her story read her when
Mama June dies, and she dies in the fifties, like
fifty four, let's say, Gypsy writes a biography and so
does her sister, and they both have differing accounts. But
in her sister's bigraphy, she talks a lot about those
dance competitions and Julie Harris says, you should be writing
a play about this, and if you do that, I

(22:46):
will star on your play. So June wrote a book,
wrote a play, and a woman writing a play and
being a director of it. And she said, you need
to direct it. You can't trust it to anybody else.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
And she did.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
She's the first woman to be nominated for a Tony
Award for direction. I mean, these women are fascinating.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
They're just so accomplished and so brilliant, right, it's amazing.
And yeah, so she goes to Hollywood and she oh,
we should say also, I mean it's like the layers
upon layers upon layers one of Yeah, it's hard to
keep this straight. One of June's most famous Broadway roles

(23:24):
was in the original production of Pal Joey, Yes, with.

Speaker 7 (23:31):
Gene Kelly Kelly, thank you well, I've had Gene Hackman
on the brains sadly, Oh wow, so Gene Kelly.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
And there's a number, there's a very very famous number
in that Pal Joey musical. I was going to suggest
we do it next, but it's like, not the greatest story. Yeah,
but there's a number very famous number that is about
literally about Gypsy rose Lee, like it's it's not like, oh,
it's a woman who's exactly though, it's actually about Gypsy

(24:05):
Roseleie mentions her by name, and June is in the
it's in this musical and in Hollywood she makes a
number of films and she's.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Like she's trific, she's she's really good and stars with
Rosalind Russell in one of those films.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
In My Sister, the original version of My Sister Eileen,
which was later done a few times, most notably that
it was made in the I think in the sixties
and it starred Bob Fosse. Like that's I love that movie.
But in the original non musical version one, Roslyn Russell
is the star, and yeah, June Havoc is in a
scene with her. It has a really cool role with

(24:46):
in this scene, particular scene with Roslin Russell that is
just great.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
So yeah, a lot of a lot of worlds colliding
spider webs, as they say in Trashy Divorces, and lots
of spider yes. So there we go into the fifties.
Rose Diyes they both write their books and Gypsy knows everybody.
They all know everybody in entertainment, and they all hooks
up with like really with a I'm sorry, I'm trying
to get the names right of like who was a

(25:12):
part of the We have Stephen Sondheim as the lyricist,
and he was and he worked on West Side Story
and he said, oh, I want to do the music
and the lyrics, and they said, ease up, kid, you
know you're yeah, you're you're pushing yourself.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
You do the lyrics.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
Jools Stein will do the music and uh, and so
it becomes this musical and then it's very popular.

Speaker 4 (25:36):
It's a mega hit. It's a huge hit. Full Merman,
it's and it's a very and the music I'm sorry,
but the music is very SONDHEIMI da da da na.
I mean that's so son in best sense, in the
best sense that fel Merman.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
Is.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
Like I should say, like when the when the for
most of the show, if we're putting people in time
and again, we only ish know how old everybody is
at any given time. Mama Rose is around I had
to go and like, look at all the dates. Mama
Rose is around thirty when the show opens. She's in

(26:16):
her thirties for most of the show. Ethel Merman is
around fifty when she's playing this as and ethel Mermon
is one year younger than Roslyn Russell. So, but we
were just saying before we got on the air that
we've all seen so many films, TV appearances of ethel

(26:41):
Mermon singing Everything's coming up, Roses. I don't even know
how to begin to talk about ethel Mermon, Like she
was such a juggernaut of Broadway. Never wore a mic.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Right because she could.

Speaker 6 (26:54):
She had.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
She's a belter and so yeah, she could definitely like
reach the seats. She was Mary Mary to Ernest borgnine
for a while.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
She briefly, briefly they had.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
A whole that was a whole thing. She would go
and talk to us to talk about that.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Oh, the famous in her in her memoir. In ethel
Merman's memoir, there's a chapter called Ernest borgnine. It is
one page and it is blank.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Oh I love that shade. That is just that is
next level petty that I appreciate.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
Gee, we talked about her a little bit. We talked
about Valley of the Dolls, because the Helen character in
Valley of the Dolls is based on ethel hermon.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
But she was.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
She had such a long career, and we always when
we get to see her, we only ever get to
see her singing, so we don't ever really get to
see her acting. Right, But I gotta think she was
pretty good, right, I mean, you gotta be pretty good.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Loved her she played. I mean this this show was
very popular right away. And these songs I could just like,
these songs are amazing, and and Jerome Robbins was the
director and the choreographer, and he's like one of the
best that's ever been.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
But this show, I'm going to say, the show is
really about Rose. It's called Gypsy. But the gypsy, the
person who moves around from place to place and never
settled down, is actually Rose. It's not actually Louise or June.
The real gypsy is Rose. If we're using it in

(28:19):
that sense of the word in the nineteen early in
the twentieth century sense of the word, and that role,
that's a role that like all the ladies of Broadway
want to play. Any woman who has ever been on Broadway,
you ask her what role she wants to play, she
always says, Mama Rose. We were just saying too that
we've seen we've all week long, we've been watching the
cliffs of all the Mama Roses that we can get

(28:41):
our hands on time daily was spectacular.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
Patty Lapone, of course I saw that I was there
in two thousand and eight, and I.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
Feel like is our ethel Merman? Actually thanks right absolutely.
Angela Lansbury, do yourself a favor. Look of Angela Lansbury
as Mama Rose. Emilda Staunton recently did it in Britain.
Like I said that, I just watched that performance. It's
it's a little it's what did you say? Wait, what
did you say about the British when they do? Are

(29:12):
the you?

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Mey, pick a coast and pick a coast and try
to do that, and it's it's it's where are we?

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Where are we? Where are you from?

Speaker 6 (29:21):
What?

Speaker 3 (29:22):
And we love a Melos Staunton right way. We talked
about it. We talked about Harry Potter.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
Oh, she does great. Mama Rose, right, she is great,
She's terrific.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Who are Bernadette Peters? Who's goddess? I mean beautiful and
talented and beautiful. Her voice is incredible too. I can't
understand women in their forties wanting this part fifties, because
this is the juice.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
It's a wonderful role. It's a juicy meati role, and
she it's all about her. Everybody is navigating her, and
she has all the best songs. So yeah, you play.
You played in our Facebook. A clip from the Gypsy
Roseley television show her she had a talk show. She

(30:06):
was wonderful on her talk show and so natural and
really good about it, really good at the rapport with
the guest and allowing the guests. I've watched every clip
that there is of that talk show and I love it.
But she has one episode where she's got Ethel mermon
on and they're talking about the role of Mama Rose.

(30:26):
And another thing I love about Ethel hermon never did
plastic surgery, did not believe in plastic surgery. She was like,
I've had I've lived the life I've lived, this is
the face, this is this is what it is. And
she speaks about Mama Rose with so much. She really

(30:48):
loves that woman, right, you could tell like she really
empathizes and and really is a champion of Mama Rose.
That I think must have been so great to see
on stage. I found a recording and I'll put this
in our Facebook group. I just found it, like right
before we got on the air. There's an audio recording.
I don't know who who made it, in what corner

(31:10):
of the theater they were hiding. Somebody made a brief
audio recording of ethel Merman performing Mama Rose for the
final time on Broadway, and I mean, I got goosebumps.
It was it's so good. And then when you think
that she is not wearing a microphone, Oh my goodness, I.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Said to Margo, there's a somebody put on a from
two thousand and seven, the production with Patti LuPone and
Laura Bonanti. Like I think she's our modern day because
she's really good everything and Boy Gaines as Herbie. I
mean just but there was somebody in the audience I
think took their phone or took just a camera, and
like every once in a while, it's too it's great

(31:52):
to watch, but everyone's while they're like hiding it, and
then they bring it up again and Patti Lupone's voice
reaches so far and her gestures and you could tell
she really believes that this is just one of the
best parts ever. I think for an actor, I can't
imagine how much fun it is?

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Should we please it with the original Oh, I just
wanted to mention that with the rest of the cast
in the original Broadway show. Yes, please, because we're so
excited about ethel mermon. Let's not forget Jack Klugman played Herbie.
Oh my goodness, how of course like Jack Clugman and
ethel were. Oh, I would have given anything. And there's

(32:30):
no clip. I could not find any clips. If you
all find clips of Jack Klugman, who's singing Herbie? Please
let us, please tell us, please tell us. Sandra Church
played Louise. There was somebody else that they were considering
for the role. Um, let me think.

Speaker 8 (32:49):
She was up against. Hold on, she was up against
Give me a second.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
Sorry, it's somebody we know, Gypsy, Gypsy Suzanne Plaschett.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Oh, I've heard of her.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Suzanne Plachett and she Sandra Church were up for the
role of Gypsy. The producers were like, oh, Susan Plachette
is such an amazing actress, which she was, and but
Sandra Church was the better singer. Yeah, So they ultimately
gave it to Sandra Church. Because it is a vocally,
all of these parts are vocally very demanding, we should say.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
And Audra McDonald's, by the way, is in the current
version now and it's an African American cast, so they've
changed it a bit and it's been a huge hit, Margo,
like everybody New York's talking about it. When audurey donald
was sick, oh looked they couldn't even perform well because
she's and she's another like mega talent in our time.
We're way too lucky to.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
Have this happen.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
So yeah. So in nineteen sixties she uh, she was
nominated for a Tony Award. All they were all they
won for Best Musical Theater Album, but all of the performers,
everybody was nominated. I wonder what was like the big
production that year. But we have I found a clip
of ethel Merman on I believe it's The Perry Como Show,
and we'll play that now once again. If this is

(34:19):
getting chopped up in our big YouTube clip about this episode,
just follow up get our patriot or follow one of
us on YouTube or whatever, and you can find them
for yourself.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
You'll find it.

Speaker 5 (34:33):
All I need is a girl.

Speaker 6 (34:36):
And actor, ladies and gentlemen. Is the star of the
Broadway musical Gipsy singing everything coming up roses exactly if
she does it in the show, bess ethel Murma, maybe.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
It's not a.

Speaker 9 (34:57):
Baby they ware from.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
You, well, jolly base not.

Speaker 6 (35:16):
Honestly stop you stop, no hardy every.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Road, where the where the trip?

Speaker 3 (35:33):
You got woman to do? Botre lu lord can take
the low party.

Speaker 9 (35:40):
Everydings coy on.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
I need just try and stop her, Just try and
stop her. Another thing about ethel Merman is she I
mean she owned Broadway. Let's be clear, so many hits,
Annie gets your gun, anything goes. I mean I've seen them.

(36:13):
How amazing must not have been to see el fel Merman,
Boh Gabriel, how amazing I guess saw Patti Lacone and
anything goes back in the day, and she just is,
oh my god. And when these hit smash hit musicals

(36:37):
eventually were developed into Hollywood movies, you would think they
would want the person who put the role on the map,
who was still completely capable of singing these very very

(36:58):
difficult parts. Nope, every single time we're gonna do anything goes,
oh not less. Who can we get That's like ethel Mermon, Oh,
we're gonna do Annie gets you gun? Who can we
get that's gonna do it? Like ethel Mermon. And here
we finally have this incredible role of Mama Rose. Ethel

(37:23):
Mermon is uh again, she's she's a lot older than
than Mama Rose actually was at the time, but she's
she's still she's still totally appropriate for this role. Doesn't
get it, doesn't get Oh and she's been told by

(37:43):
the movie producers, absolutely, ethel this role is yours. Right,
she thinks she's gonna do it, and then they ya
get out from under her.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Oh, I'm based. I'm based in New York. We're gonna
lived in New York for a while. I mean, we
have our Broadway stars and we always are like, well,
they're famous, aren't they? Because everybody knows how amazing talented
these people are. But we forget, like, not everybody gets
to Broadway, nobody gets to the theater. And unless they
do the talk show circuit and you can perform live
quite often, you don't get to see this. So when
they're the suits in Hollywood are just like, yeah, but

(38:17):
is she sexy? We need her to be a little
sexy because it's a movie. So they they get Rosalind Russell,
who I'm not mad about this because I'm a huge
rosalind Russell fan. Oh you know, I will watch her
do anything anything. She could read the phone book, I
would be fine with it. I'm sure she would make
it superr thing ethel Merman, No, no, no, that is

(38:37):
that's not her strength. She can do the physical comedy.
She can do like, you know, carrying the bags around
and bossing everybody on the stage. Nobody can do it
better than Rosalind Russell. She's so believable. It's when she
starts to saying that it's a little you do kind
of miss it a little bit because, yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
But it was an interesting choice. I felt like, so, well,
let's talk about Okay, so it's nineteen sixty two. Oh
we forgot so said mentioned Arthur Lawrence, we talked about
we talked about Steven Sonheim, when we talked about West
Side Story, we talked about Arthur Laurence, when we talked
about Lakajha Fall.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
When we did the bird Cage, right, that's right, That's
why I was trying to la where I knew him from. Yeah,
LAKAJHAA that's a fun one.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
He is much older than this is a very young
Arthur Lawrence at this point. So we have Rosslyn Russell,
Natalie Wood, Natalie Would, Natalie Would, Natali Would. We've talked
about numerous times. West Side Story, Miracle on thirty fourth Street,

(39:35):
Carl and Carl Malden, another one I just like Jack
Clugman that had just like, Oh my heart, I just
love them so much. And we're Technicolor are costumes. They're
beautiful ladies and gentlemen. Just a moment of silence for
the costumes of Gypsy, designed by none other than Or Kelly,

(39:57):
who we've also talked about numerous times. My favorite ri
Kelly turn at costumes is Now Voyager. When we talked
about Now Voyager, Oh yes, costumes his career, go look
up all the pick I can't you. I don't even know,
maybe over one hundred movie He's done so many movies.

(40:20):
Of the costumes several that we've talked about in the past,
but the one that really sticks in my mind is
Now Voyager because it's just jaw dropping. These costumes are
absolutely gorgeous. I love Herbie suits. All of the different
vaudeville performers and their costumes, the strippers, Miss Zeppa, Miss Electra.

(40:44):
I love that section and the way that we progress
with gypsies costumes as she's starting out and then becomes
more and more and more famous, how the silhouettes change,
and also it's getting later in the history of course,
silhouettes changed, the you know, the luxuriousness of the materials progressed,

(41:08):
and just like those first the first time she goes
on stage and she's got that gorgeous blue dress, but
it's a simple blue dress that it does look like
she could have made herself. And the mom gives her
the opera gloves and they're all like they're a little dingy,
and they're they're stretched out and they're like falling off

(41:30):
of her, you know, to the end of the movie
where she's got these bespoke satin gloves. Stop it. It's gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
And she's so beautiful. I mean, she's pretty heartbreakingly beautiful,
Like when she's playing the tomboy and she's got like
a crappy wig on page boy, okay, and she still
is like this gorgeous face and just this just and
she could sing and she could dance and she Yeah,
she's fine in the production.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
I think I think so too, you know you have to.
It's funny because it's it's the opposite choice that they
make for film than they do for stage. They decide,
and I think it was the right choice. They decide
we need to have we need to choose acting ability
over singing ability. So and not that I'm not saying

(42:23):
that Ethel Mrmy can't act. I'm just saying, you know, also,
we should also say ross had a really powerful husband.
Roslind Russell at the time was married to a very
very powerful man who made a pretty shrewd deal to
get Roslin Russell this role. She really wanted this role

(42:44):
and did a two picture deal on the condition that
this was one of them. And that's how they yanked
the role out from under ethel Merman, who never forgot
it and always referred to Rosalind's husband as the Lizard
of ros.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
I would say to you, I love her. In Airplane,
there's a scene where one of the pilots is out
because he thinks he's ethel Merman, and then she all
of a sudden goes yo the swell.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
She's in this mental hospital. Remember when she was on
love Boat. She was Gopher's mom.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
I watched Love Boat on Paramount Plus all the time,
bless that woman that Chase stars I used to like
I watched because they were on that in Fantasy Land Rogers. Yes, yes,
it Caesar like all these people. I was like, oh,
I know who they are from the Love Boat. But yeah,
she's she's just spectacular.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
Should we play the trailer for Yeah, let's play our trailer.

Speaker 5 (44:04):
Entertained and brother Natalie Woods got the entertainment that really entertained.
This is the big bouncy one about the darling of
the runways who made herself a reputation, who became the
toast of international society, rollicking rode to fame of the
Girl who got Away with the fabulous Gypsy rose.

Speaker 10 (44:23):
Lee Gypsy starring rosalind Russell, Natalie Wood, Carl Malden, and
the wildest bunch of characters in or out show business.
Jolly Uncle Jocko, a top banana on the skins, Kringlin,
the indignant Carolyn, the dancing Cow, the high mogu with

(44:46):
low intentionness, the Hollywood blondes, and the most Mama any
girl ever had.

Speaker 11 (44:53):
This time, I'm gonna make you a star. Baby.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
You these swell, you'd be great.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
Gonna have the whole world on a plate. Start here's God.

Speaker 9 (45:07):
Now every things come and up rose and.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
And what more?

Speaker 4 (45:16):
This sparaging remark about my ballet, the finest bugle.

Speaker 6 (45:23):
Right in.

Speaker 12 (45:28):
Hooies that sit on me here, do me your hands now,
follow me.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
That's it, Luis you faster?

Speaker 4 (45:38):
That's it tossed the front.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Do it again?

Speaker 12 (45:43):
Do it again?

Speaker 11 (45:46):
Turn honestly the way you behavee with those girls.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Rus you need new silverware when we set up housekeeping
on Riverside Drive.

Speaker 6 (46:01):
I don't get you.

Speaker 5 (46:02):
You're so high and mighty with a sweet at the aster,
and you're still stealing the cup from me.

Speaker 11 (46:06):
They gotta grasp every opportunity that Itserta's a right room
for charity.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Don't where I'm going. I'm not staying in burlesque. I'm
moving maybe up, maybe down, But wherever it is, I'm
enjoying it. I'm having the time of my life because
for the first time, it is my life and I
love it. I love every second of it, and I'll
be damned if you're gonna take it away from me.

Speaker 7 (46:48):
Let me.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
Entertain you.

Speaker 12 (46:55):
We have a real good time.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yes, we.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Have a real good time. So the part of the trailer.

(47:26):
It's a great trailer. But the part of the trailer
where they introduced the cast Roseland Russell and Natalie Wood
and Carl Maldon is that's a scene that was cut
from the film. It's a very famous number that ethel
Merman would blow the roof off of the joint every
night on Broadway wherever we go.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
It's that number which is not in this movie, which
is we have because it's a very famous but we
know why, we know why.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
So here's the thing. Natali Wood, this is after West
Side Story, and she always felt kind of not great
about the fact that she was dubbed in West Side Story.
And it's beautiful singing Marnie Nixon, I mean, it's Marnie Nixon,

(48:18):
but she doesn't sound like Natalie Wood like it sounds
like a completely different person. It really does. And Rosalind Russell,
you know, not known to be a singer. Also, this
is after Auntie Mame, and she wants to do her
own singing too, but she just she is just not
ethel Merman. And this is an ethel Merman role. It

(48:39):
is a very difficult role. So what they do with
Ross they let Natalie Wood sing her stuff, you know,
for the most part, and it's not as challenging. They
I think they arrange it a little more, you know,
kindly for her voice, and I think it works great. Yeah,
she's acting, she's acting it to death, so it's great.
Rosslyn Russell. They bring somebody in forget.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Her name, Yeah, I'm sorry, I'll find it, and.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
Somebody that dubs just the high notes for right. So
Rosalind Russell has a very gravelly, kind of Elaine stretchy
kind of a voice. And for the most part it
works Lisa Kirk because she's uh, thank you, Lisa Kirk.
And for the most for most of the movie it
works because she's acting so much. She's just doing so
much with her acting that we're all we're just in

(49:25):
it with her. I totally buy her chemistry with Carl Maldon.
I think it's so good. I love her with the children.
And we'll talk about Angelia in a second. But so
they have they have Lisa Kirk dubbing the high notes,
and they do a super good job in this film,
I think, much better than in West Side Story. With
the dubbing that you you have to really really know

(49:45):
that that's what's going on and be listening for it
other way you you don't. It doesn't du it doesn't
announce itself so much in this movie. And I've been
thinking about this a lot because the thing about the
thing about Mama Rose, I'm so sorry. I keep wanting
to call her Mama June and that's the mom from Honeybooboo.

(50:06):
And I apologize. I did that in the Facebook. I
didn't even catch it. Somebody else caught. I was like, oh, yeah,
that's Honey Booboo. Sorry, guys, Mama Rose. The thing about
Mama Rose when it's ethel Merman and she comes right out,
you know, at the very very beginning when you first
see her, and she's, uh, that's fine for some people, right,

(50:31):
You think from the beginning, from the moment that madam,
that Mama Rose opens her mouth and sings. In the
Broadway version, I'm sure because I've seen it in the
other this is what you think when you see Patti
Lapone or Bernett Peters or Tying Daily, you go, wow,
Mama Rose can really sing.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Audra McDonald's really been something.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
Yeah, Audra McDonald, she would have been amazing. She should
have been on the stage. You the audience think that
immediately with Rosalind Russell. You don't. With Rosslyn Russell, you like,
this is just a this is a stage mom, This
is stage mom, stage one. And it's not until near
the very very end of the film when she finally

(51:12):
sings the big number, Mama Rose's turn, and she she's
doing the strip tease moves, then you go, oh, she
she does have a little sizzle in there, Leah, I'm
gonna know. So that's a very different kind of an
experience of that character that we the movie audience are having,
and it's just as valid versus the stage version because

(51:37):
these are very belty numbers that they're They're big, big
vocal numbers. But it works. I think the two things
that make it that have to work for this show
to fly don't hande on the character of Louise. I
think actually I think it's I think, of course, Mama Rose,

(51:59):
because she is the central character.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
You have to.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
You have to as you're horrified at the decisions that
she makes, you have to be on her side to
a certain degree from the beginning, like when she's singing
to her dad that she's going to get out on
the road and he's telling her no, settle down and
get married, which is the smart thing for a woman
at that age, at that time to do, sure on
Rose's side, for her to take those kids and go

(52:26):
on the road. The other thing that I think you
have to have to have to have is a spectacularly
talented June. And when I see productions of this where
it's like a little off, it's because they haven't not

(52:48):
that the person, not that the actress playing June isn't
great and super talented, it's that they haven't invested enough
in selling us the extraordinary talent of this little girl.
And who plays June on the original Broadway production I forgot.
I'll look that up, okay, And if you don't have it,

(53:10):
Like I was just saying, I was watching and I'm
going to criticize the email the stunt in one yet again.
I was watching the email Destonton one and there's a
lot of really good stuff about that production, including I
think Emelda Stanton is wonderful as Mama Rose.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
Lane Bradberry, Sorry, Margo, that's who.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Okay, Lane Bradberry.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
I'm trying to feel like a very a famous June,
and I'm not really finding them in the stage for it.
I mean, there are awesome characters, but.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
They're all really good, and but it really is about
like how the production this show is selling. We have
to believe that she is a star, that this whole
family could hitch their wagon too. Right. In the Emil
the Stonton one, the June is is done as a
very insipid kind of character. You know, she should say

(53:58):
she should when she comes we meet her for the
first time and we get We see her do this
number over and over again in the show, but the
very first time when she comes out and says, Hi, everybody,
my name's June. What's yours, You're supposed to buy it.
You're supposed to be like, oh, June Margo. Right, But

(54:19):
when we meet June in the in the Amilda one,
which is that one of the more recent ones, and
she's like, I might she's really playing up in a
way that is not so how much do we love
a Jillian Okay, I so much the unsung hero of
this film. If a Jillian were not the star that

(54:42):
she is, this whole thing would come a part of
the scenes.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
And she's like twelve when she's doing this. I mean
she's very young, so she's playing a little younger and
a little older because she's going to be taken off
with one of the dancers. I think the next clip
is it's called Dayty June, which they had to change
to day t Claire for a little bit because June
Havoc wasn't signing off on this, but they brought it
back to Daisy June Dainty June.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
So we don't quite know what the circumstance of that
was that brought June Havoc around. Uh, we'll talk about
that after this clip.

Speaker 9 (55:17):
Only one egg roll a piece.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
I counted him no more.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Take it easy, take it. You don't call each other
to death. Now I want to tell you about a
dream I had. It's really an urna Luise coming on
your birthday. Oh baby, you'll love it, you all will.

Speaker 6 (55:31):
Children.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
It's it's a new act that ain't a dream. It's
a miracle.

Speaker 13 (55:37):
In this act, I saw a June singing a song
and like a barnyard, and then.

Speaker 11 (55:43):
A cow came on stage, a cow that's.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Pretty sophisticated, not a real cow, sort of a dancing
cow with a great big smile.

Speaker 13 (55:51):
And that cow, that cow leaned right over my bed
and spoke to me.

Speaker 11 (55:57):
What did the cow say, I'm not cooking in here,
mister kringline that cow. I'm dressing that cow.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
I'll call you tomorrow when I'm finished.

Speaker 11 (56:10):
Now about that cow, because there's hoved.

Speaker 13 (56:13):
Dear talented cow looked me right in the eye and said, Rose,
if you want to get back on the orpheum circuit,
you put me in your act.

Speaker 11 (56:24):
Children.

Speaker 13 (56:25):
You know what I'm gonna do.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
You're gonna pay that talented cow, not us.

Speaker 11 (56:28):
I'm not paying anybody, but I'm taking that cow's advice.

Speaker 13 (56:31):
I'm gonna call the new act Dainty June and her
farm boys.

Speaker 11 (56:36):
I'm gonna put the cow in the act and Chowsy
in the monkey. Everybody works. Let me tell you this,
this is a real big time.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
I really had in this voice, Sir, I just ursed
the monkey in the court. The monkey. Yeah. So they yeah,
they famously they would travel with monkeys and pigs and
all kinds of chickens and uh they would shock up
in these entertainment hotels all over the country with this

(57:02):
menagerie of animals. Murray Gordon, the boyfriend, would would call
him a boyfriend of Mama Rose. That herbie is based on.
He did convince Rose to bring in these boys to
be the backup dancers for Dainty June. They would travel

(57:22):
the country again this is depression, right. They would travel
the country and find these families with too many his
mouths to feed basically, and say, hey, your boy looks talented.
How about we let him into our act. We won't
pay him, but we'll feed him and the experience will
last them a lifetime.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
It's like an internship.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
So they very much, and they would they would bring
on these these rag tag kids that they would find
like maybe dancing in an alleyway or something. In the
Abbot book that she talks about, there's this one kid
who has a beautiful He only speaks Italian and he
sings in Italian, but he has something like malnutrition and
so his legs are are not quite you know. He

(58:03):
can't dance with them, you can barely walk with them.
But they would put him like over in the side,
so he would his voice would be there, but not
his dancing. So they would travel with all of these boys,
smuggle them into the hotel because they always had way
more people and certainly way more animals than they were
allowed to have in these hotels, and they did that

(58:25):
for years and years and years, and it was all
they would take.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
You could only have certain number of people in a
room that they because of fire hazards and stuff. They
never paid attention to that. They would just like put
every her daughters are in the room with all these boys,
like everyone's just sleeping a camp down with their menagerie
of pets everywhere, and then she'd take a hot plate
and cook Chinese food for everybody's It sounds like fun
to me. But if I were you know, if you're young,

(58:50):
you don't know better. You just a minute, Yeah, I mean,
if you're young, you also don't know better. You're just
kind of like this is all you know, so this
is what you do. But I think later on you
might think, God, that's really not the most stable upbringing.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
Yeah, and June runs off now June. So, as we said,
they both June and Louise write their memoirs after their
mom has.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Passed, because she would have sued them, by the way,
because she she.

Speaker 4 (59:18):
Would have sued them just for a buck. Yeah, yeah,
even if it had been completely accurate and she was
completely tolled with that, she would have sued them just
for a buck. Having said that, like June could easily
easily have sued and stopped this show from ever seeing
the light of day, she doesn't. They do as you
said for a moment, they changed the name of the

(59:38):
character to Claire, but only not for long. Eventually it
is June, and it is June in this, in this movie,
and June again. Every one of them is an unreliable narrator, right,
Karen Abbott. When she worked on this books, she spoke to,

(01:00:02):
among other people, she interviewed Eric Premainger Gypsy Roseleie's son. Yeah,
and she interviewed June. June was still alive when she
wrote the book.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
June lived to ninety seven.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
By the way, Yes, fascinating woman, very June Having, especially
because she did live so long, she outlived everyone so
for so many years, had multiple opportunities to dispel myths,
set the record straight, talk about why she didn't sue

(01:00:33):
her sister for this show, talk about how she felt
about the show. She always would sidestep it, you know,
and people would literally say to her, so, June, you know,
you know the show. People mostly know about you from
the show, and are there any myth that you would
like to dispel, and she'd be like nah, and no

(01:00:57):
one else was around to I don't know if she
signed an NDA. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
No, she didn't sign an NDA. She wouldn't. That's that's
what's hilarious.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
She does didn't talk about it. She just let it go.
I think she easily, she easily could have. But the
but what she has, I think we do have her
saying here and there and I think this is really
sad this and this has to do with I think again,
the kind of the kind of direction that we have.

(01:01:27):
She felt that the show, or she said on some
occasions that she felt that when the show made her
mom look like a monster, which I'm sorry, but she
kind of was. I mean, that really cleaned up what
we do know on record about this woman. And she
does really seem to have murdered the possible girlfriend from

(01:01:49):
the boarding house. But she also felt that the show
made her look like a spoiled brat who got everything
that she wanted. And I don't think that it does.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
I don't either. But I grew up in a family
of four kids, and my mother had four kids in
five and a half years. We all grew up together
and we would you can ask one of us what
was happening in Christmas at this time, and we would
all give you a different answer. We were in the
same room, we had the same parents, one of the
same vacations, everything. So that's just life. I mean, people

(01:02:23):
just do have their own ways of interpreting things.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
And I think it has to do with the who's
directing this show, because I've seen versions of this where
they do play June as if she's some kind of
a spoiled brather, but they were all starving. Yeah, and
the options and the only reason it's not like Baby Jane.
You know, that's a completely different scenario. If we talk

(01:02:48):
about whatever happened to Baby Jane and that book, and
it's totally in that story, she is completely spoiled. The
parents totally focus on the one over the other, even
though she's just as talented. In this case and in
this musical, not just in life, but in the musical,
they're all starving together, they're all struggling, and the only

(01:03:13):
reason they are even alive and have clothes on their
backs is because this little girl is super mega talented.
And when you don't portray her as that, then she
does come off looking spoiled, rotten, and then she just
runs off and leaves them. But that's not if you

(01:03:35):
actually watch the show or read the script and watch
this film, especially this film version, I think is really
true to that. You see that she was the one
who was chafing under this whole situation more than anybody,
and was really getting the short end of the stick
more than anybody because they were all completely dependent on

(01:03:55):
her for everything. A tiny child, and fortunately she was
very very smart and very very talented. And yes, a
lot of young women got married in those days to
get out of the house.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Absolutely, you can't get a credit card, you can't. I mean,
there's lots of things you being married was the better option.
It was your chance of like living a longer life.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
Really, yeah, And that I think is really sad. I
wish I wish that. I wish that she felt and
maybe she didn't, she just didn't express it, but I
wish that June could feel like, Wow, this really shows
what a survivor I was, and how really talented I was,
and I and you know, and how all the hard

(01:04:39):
work that I put in really got me through some
really really difficult times and a lot of challenges in life.
She remained so beautiful. She heard the very last. She
loved animals. She saved a small Connecticut town, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
She rebuilt the downtown area, and then she created a
theater and then she invited African American kids to like
join this theater group, like to she was contributing back
to society because she felt it saved her life as
the theater.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
Yes, there, you just reminded me. There's a there's a
The Abbot book is so fascinating. There's so many interesting details.
It doesn't just talk about that family. It also gives
you a lot of the context, the historical background, what
was going on in vaudeville, what was you know, the
America during the depression and all of that. But one

(01:05:32):
of the things that talks about is how when the
family were really working the vaudeville circuit and they were
really going all over the country and they were just
just dragging these kids all over the place. They often
would play and this alluded to in the in the
show and the movie. They would play for, you know,

(01:05:53):
the Elks Lodge, They would play for you know, so
and so's private party. They also would play for houses
that were definitely places places that were segregated.

Speaker 6 (01:06:10):
And.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
There's an account of them playing in like a kind
of like an Elk's lodge. I forget exactly what it was.
After the performance, one of the one of the big wigs, invites,
you know, beckons to June to come over here, and
you know, I want to give you something, and he

(01:06:34):
gives her a gold necklace.

Speaker 6 (01:06:38):
With a.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
Charm on it that says k k k oh my God.
And she said, so this is something that June told
Karen Abbott because they because she interviewed her, and she
said that June said that even though she was a
tiny little girl and didn't understand what that meant, that
she just it just gave her the ick like it

(01:07:02):
just she just chilling and she just didn't like it,
didn't want it, you know, and and they just got
out of there. So that was something that they encountered
and saw a lot of. And I'm sure, like I said,
these were very bright, observant girls, super intelligent and very worldly.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
You have to think like going from town to town
like through their both of them, through their their growing
up years. So that that's her way of giving back
was she wanted to, So she she helped rebuild this
town to the way it was, and then she had
this theater and she opened it up for black kids too,
in order to to just a fascinating woman, just really

(01:07:42):
really interesting, should we There's a clip of Natalie Wood
singing of Lamb, which I really like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
I think it's so good to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Little kids. A little cat do so bo.

Speaker 9 (01:08:11):
Did so?

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
It painting.

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
Like the story is it?

Speaker 9 (01:08:21):
Birth to a little fish?

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
A little fish?

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
Do you think I'll get my wish?

Speaker 9 (01:08:41):
A little bird?

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
A little bird?

Speaker 9 (01:08:48):
I wander hold a.

Speaker 7 (01:08:56):
Pin hold.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
Wonderful. She's singing that live on the set. So that's
because in film we're up close in people's faces. It
doesn't need to play to the back of the house
in the same way. You know, it's a different kind
of acting.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
It helps that she has the little lamb in her
arms too.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
Oh my gosh, that lamb is so cute.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
I would want one so bad. My mom grew up
with lambs and goats. She said they were the best.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
And you really buy her as a little you, as
a little girl. We see her even younger than this,
and we totally believe it. I really love the little
girls that are playing them even tinier. The tiniest version
of them are so cute. But once we see Angelian
and Natalie would and they're great together. I buy them
as sisters. You really get that they love each other.

(01:10:06):
You know, you don't get that she's the spoiled brat
that you know that there's they really love each other
and they're really looking out for each other, and they
really believe in each other. But June, who could go
on like that? You know, of course she's gonna leave, right,
she should leave? Okay, maybe don't marry this one guy.

(01:10:27):
And it's not really clear if her one child is
the child of that first husband or not.

Speaker 6 (01:10:33):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
I think she said it was the guy that was
the manager of the dance contest that she was in.
She's that's that's the That's who it was.

Speaker 4 (01:10:47):
Yeah, I just you really I love the way this
movie is done and it's cast. So Carl Maldon, can
you really buy that he loves these girls and he
really worries about the boy in the act and that
he loves Rose too, and that he really buy that
he loves Rose and that he loves her enough to

(01:11:09):
not enable her anymore and to take a stand and
walk away. And it's heartbreaking when he finally leaves. I
just think it's super well done. You know, the only thing,
the only thing is that you know, Ruslyn Russell is
not able to vocally carry the role, and they work

(01:11:30):
around it in a way that I think is really
good and and as much as fun as that together
song is, and arguably as integral to the story as
it is, it's really not a good number, like they
really they are really struggling, and the numbers that they
leave in are the best numbers that she does. And

(01:11:54):
it still works. It still works. And do we want
to play Let's see? How about do let's play Everything's
coming up Roses. We'll get a little touch of Roslyn. Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:12:13):
The boys walk because they think the act's finished.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
They think we're nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
I'll let them walk, let them all walk.

Speaker 11 (01:12:21):
I don't need any of them.

Speaker 4 (01:12:24):
They needed me.

Speaker 9 (01:12:26):
I'm used to people walking out.

Speaker 11 (01:12:29):
My own mother did it. I cried for a week.

Speaker 9 (01:12:32):
Your father did it.

Speaker 11 (01:12:34):
Then the man I married after him did it. Well
this time I'm not crying because I don't need any
of them. I'm the electricity. I was always the electricity.
Who do you think made the act? I neede it
and I can make it again, and I will, I
swear I will.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
It's time.

Speaker 11 (01:12:55):
I'm gonna do it for you. This time, I'm gonna
make you a star.

Speaker 9 (01:13:00):
Baby.

Speaker 11 (01:13:02):
We're gonna have all new costumes, all new people, all
new everything.

Speaker 9 (01:13:06):
Why it's like being born all over again.

Speaker 11 (01:13:07):
We got everything ahead of us. Take a look at
our new star.

Speaker 9 (01:13:11):
Look at her, Herbie, look at her.

Speaker 11 (01:13:12):
You're right, this is today and everything else is yesterday's
mashed potatoes finished. Why we're just beginning, and.

Speaker 9 (01:13:20):
This time nothing's gonna stop.

Speaker 11 (01:13:28):
I had a dream, a dream about you, baby.

Speaker 13 (01:13:35):
It's gonna come true.

Speaker 5 (01:13:38):
Baby.

Speaker 9 (01:13:40):
They think that we're fruth that baby. You be swelled,
You'll be great.

Speaker 12 (01:13:52):
Don I have the whole world on a patient starting
cute starting nowI everything's come and up.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
Roses Ethel Murmany must have wanted to just burn the
whole town of High I'm sure she was, like, but
there is something Rosalind Russell brings to that that she
cly does.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
It's her height, it's her bearing, it's the way that
she comports herself and presents herself.

Speaker 4 (01:14:26):
It's just her acting. You really, you buy she loves
this child, yes she does, and she loves Herbie. But
she is so on the wrong track. And yes it's
a very echoey desert. Okay, fine, so what so what

(01:14:50):
it's pitched way down, you know, for her gravelly voice.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
But.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
Yeah, I still buy it. Instead of it's a different
it's a totally kind of different take on Mama Rose.
As we've been saying, where instead of thinking up until
this point, instead of thinking like, wow, Mama Rose really
should have gone on the stage, what we're thinking instead is, wow,
Mama Rose doesn't have any talent either, right, You're like, yeah,

(01:15:20):
she too bad. She doesn't have the talent to make
it on the stage yourself. It's a different it's a
different take, but it totally works, and you really believe,
you really believe that, like her whole heart is in
is in this, but it's in so the wrong place.

(01:15:40):
It's not gonna go well, like at this point, you know,
you are literally at the end of the line, Lady,
we're not it's not going up. We're not going up,
not from here.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
I wanted to one of the actors that Morgan Brittany
played Baby June, that that's before and yeah, and Jillian
took over and she was in a lot of eighties stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:16:07):
She was like very beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
But then there was like an adult film actress that
took the opposite name, like it was her name was Morgan, Brittany,
so she called herself Brittany Morgan.

Speaker 4 (01:16:21):
That's unfortunate, which is which is?

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
But anyway, they asked her what was they'd like to
work with Natalie Wood, and she said it was amazing,
she said, but also I never saw her without a cigarette.
Apparently she was really and they said they were kind
of telling her, like, if you want to be a singer,
you can't do that. But I think also as an actor,
she wanted to keep thin, you know. That was like
part of this. Yeah, and she's wearing these very skimpy

(01:16:43):
clothes like it's she's yeah, yeah, and she's only five
foot two, so you can only eat so much when
you're like that size. I mean it's so I kind
of get it. But I also just Natalie would say
it was. There was a documentary about her on HBO
a couple of years ago, and her daughters are the
executive producers of it. And there's a whole thing with

(01:17:04):
Natalie Wood. People talk about like when Nollywood was young,
she fell off a pier and she broke her wrist
and she's always afraid of dark water ever since. And
it's always when they talk about Nollywood, she was afraid
of dark water and then she drowned. Oh my god,
and her one of her daughters, I'm sure those it's
Natasha who said, yeah, she didn't like dark water, you know, water,
she couldn't see it. Who likes that?

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Like? Who?

Speaker 6 (01:17:26):
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
I mean it's like, yeah, that's actually a good point,
like nobody would like. But it's just part of those
you know. Unfortunately, the way she passed away is sometimes
overshadows who she was as a person. And I love
watching this old stuff with Natalie Wood because she was
so talented and beautiful and she was a very kind
person apparently for people tell me, and very forward thinking, progressive.

(01:17:49):
She had a lot of gay friends and she took
care of them. She's just she's amazing, and I think
she's great when she comes out and it's her first
time on stage tripping and she's so scared and she's
so like, she just sells it really well. She's an
absolutely amazing actor.

Speaker 4 (01:18:08):
She really is. She really really is. And I feel
like it sounds weird to say, because again the show
is called Gypsy, but I feel like in the stage versions,
at least the ones that I've seen, that character does

(01:18:30):
not have quite the depth that it does in this
movie because Natalie would you know. Yeah, it's probably because
we see her from the She's acting such a range
of ages, so there is a continuity there that is
only broken at the very very beginning, like where as

(01:18:50):
you said, when the Natalie Wood and Jillian become those characters.
So she really brings I'm sure Gypsy Rosie. I hope
Gypsy Rosalie must have loved this film. I hope she didn't.
I didn't say anything where she talked about the film.
I saw her talk about the musical and how she

(01:19:11):
went on and on or she was making money on it. Yeah,
everybody says about Gypsy Roslie, including her son, that that
woman loved her some money and every time she made
she kept for herself. She did not lavish on her son.
I didn't even pay for her son's education.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
No, she didn't, And kind of like that attitude. I
was your age, I was working, I was supporting myself.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
Yeah, so of course she's going to, you know, big
up the show. But the show was tremendous, of course,
But I never saw anything where she talked about the
film and what she thought about the film. I wonder too,
because she had ethel Merman on her television right, and
was her way sides in that debate. I love it,

(01:20:02):
yet I totally get she must have had a favorite version,
and it had to have been the stage version, of course.
So I don't know, you know, I don't know what
she ever thought about it. I never saw anything where
she talked about Does she talk about it in the
in the memoir?

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
I don't even remember, No, I don't remember well the
memoir she This is based on her memoir, so it's
it was a couple of years after she published the memoir,
so it's not not like she had a lot of
time to.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
Oh of course, then she wouldn't have talked about it at.

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
All reflect on it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
But I like that clip and you could find it
on our Facebook page or on a Patreon for free.
It's her interview her in like nineteen sixty seven and
somebody gives her. It's around her birthday and somebody gives
her a gift and she goes, oh, look, as I
got a necklace, and then she takes out and it's
a bunch of sausages on a string and she just
wraps it around her neck like it's a shawl, and
ethel Murmuran's sitting right there like it's I posted this

(01:20:50):
on my TikTok and somebody wrote back right away, like,
thank you so much for posting this.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
This is making me so happy. I just she's so
delightful well as a talk so I would have watched
I think, I think maybe just because she became ill,
she died.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Yeah, So she dies in nineteen seventy at fifty nine
from lung cancer. Yeah, it happened very quickly apparently, like
the time she was diagnosed until she passed away. So yeah,
she had this exciting life and then she went out
in a blaze of glory. I mean she was still
at her peak. She was still just figuring it out.
I mean, I would have loved for her to live

(01:21:28):
a very long time and see what else she would
have done, you know, if she followed up that book
or what.

Speaker 4 (01:21:34):
Well she but she also wrote fiction, as we said,
you know, she an accomplished writer. Yes, and I'm sorry,
I've lost my train of thought. Had something I was
going to say, oh, we didn't mention. If you want
to get an idea of what her act was like,
a very cleaned up idea of what her act was like.

(01:21:57):
She does a version of it in Stage door Candeen
during World War Two, the famous I don't know if
you've ever seen Stage or Canteen with all the oh so.
I think this was a thing they actually did in
Los Angeles during the war. There was a I don't
think it wasn't a USO because or maybe it was
a us SO, but it was a place, you know,

(01:22:18):
like a USO where all the servicemen who were in
town in Los Angeles could go. They would be welcomed in,
they would be you know, they would get coffee and
dancing and so on. But it was staffed by Hollywood stars.
So the different actresses would go and do Joan Crawford,
they both did. They would serve drinks down at the
stage or canteen. And there's a film made of you know,

(01:22:42):
it's a fictionalized version of it. Of course, not the
most PC thing ever. Okay, this is going to warn
you there's some pretty cringey stuff that happens. But one
of the so you have all these famous entertainers of the.

Speaker 3 (01:22:59):
Day, Ed what's his name, ed gw Edmund gwyn ed Gwinn,
the one that was.

Speaker 4 (01:23:06):
The one that was the mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland. Anyway,
all the famous stars of the day are in it,
including Joan Crawford and Betty Davis. And there's a number
in it where Gypsy rose Lee does her very famous
the number that is spoofed in pal Joey and it's

(01:23:28):
called like it's called like the Philosophy of a Stripper,
and where she's talking and she's taking she takes hardly
anything off, but it is delightful, It is absolutely reliable,
and you really do see the artistry. Her son said
that she used to use straight pins. Used to keep

(01:23:48):
her clothes on with straight pins, and that's how she
would do it so seamlessly and elegantly taking it off,
and how during lean years it was his job to
go down to the orchestra pit and collect all the
straight pins, go.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
To buy more of them.

Speaker 4 (01:24:01):
She's not gonna buy more of them, yeah, so he would.
That was his job.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
That was his job. She also performed in Vietnam with
the USO and her son has this gorgeous coat oh flat,
and it's filled with all these patches from soldiers who
thanked her for coming out and entertaining them. I mean,
she's just a remarkable person.

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
So let's see, do we have any other clips that
we get?

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
I have one more of Natalie Wood.

Speaker 4 (01:24:31):
Okay, let's play that one. This is this is so
this is a clip of her first time but she's
the first time she's ever announced is Gypsy and her
first time appearing in burlesque. What Herbie has just left
the family right before she goes out on stage, so effectively,
her father has left them, and she's stuck with her mom,
who is now sort of softly forcing her to strip.

(01:24:56):
And I should say in the Karen Abbott bio, there's
there's an allusion to Mama Rose was a thorn in
their side all the way up until the very very end.
Apparently both June and Louise constantly asking them for money,

(01:25:17):
demanding money and sort of threatening Louise to expose certain
things that she doesn't quite you know, she's very like
craftily alluding to so Karen Abbott speculates that, you know,
perhaps things might have gotten like real, real bad, and

(01:25:38):
maybe there was like she was forced into sex work
or something like that, like we don't really know, but
certainly like this is a This is a turning point
for everybody, turning point for Jew's gone, yeah, turning point
for Herbie. He cannot go and he's not going to
go along with this, so he leaves them. As much

(01:25:59):
as he loves them, he knows if he stays, he's
only enabling them, and so he leaves. Mamma Rose has
Mama Rose has taken a detour into it, deep into
the heart of bad parent Bill and is like fine
with her daughter not only playing into burless house but
now stripping and really really kind of pushing her, forcing

(01:26:23):
her into it, and Gypsy Louise just wants to be
a good daughter and and realizes, like much like June,
all of these people are gonna are not gonna eat
if she doesn't do this. So there she is, and
she's still a kid. Cannot stress enough that she is
a kid. Here we go, let me.

Speaker 9 (01:27:03):
Entertain you.

Speaker 4 (01:27:09):
Make you sing out, Louise, sing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Out, made tricks, sumble lip so tricks, I'm they.

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
And then you're real good. I'll make you be good.

Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
I want you just to.

Speaker 6 (01:27:37):
So that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:41):
Entertain you and will a real god time.

Speaker 6 (01:27:50):
Will have.

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
Good Natalie Wood ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
Also broke her wrist, and so she was famous for
always having a bangle. I'm obsessed with Natalie Wood. I've
read like the biography she always had.

Speaker 4 (01:28:17):
I listened to that whole podcast about about her death,
did you, Oh, of course, yes, RJ do something. Remember
what it was called? Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
Say anything else, but but yeah, that's unfortunately her death
overshadowed her life and I and it's because she was
like forty when she passed away, I believe, so, I know,
and she had so much to look forward to. She
she's just really how and just how stunning. I mean,
I know it's objectifying, but I beat I.

Speaker 4 (01:28:49):
Know, but it's a little distracting. Yes, how pretty, pretty
pretty she is? I mean, and it's what again, not
a singer. That's her, that's her doing, that's her singing that.
And at this point she could insist on that, but

(01:29:12):
not really not a singer, right, famous for two of
the biggest blockbuster musical movies of all time. So there
it is. And that's because she's such a good actor. Yeah, yeah,
I mean so book versus movie.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
I'm gonna take the book because I love all of
the adaptations and I'm totally discovering something new each time.
And I can't recommend enough the Bette Midler one, if
you could get a chance. Oh it's Skert and I
was saying to Margo off the air, were both named Margot.
Cynthia Gibb plays June and she's amazing. She played Karen

(01:29:56):
Carpenter too. You remember that TV movie. Oh, I just
saw a documentary recently and she was one of the
talking heads about Karen.

Speaker 6 (01:30:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Yeah, she's super talented and she I love that one
joke they have where June like because because the sorry
the baby was June right, and Okay, so June could
do splits and and sing at the top of her
lungs and everything, and then so Rose comes out to
be her the follow up to her, and she can

(01:30:25):
just barely do the split and it's so funny when
it's done correctly. And I think Cynthia Give does such
a good job with that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:33):
Oh lot, everybody, my name's Louise.

Speaker 3 (01:30:40):
And Mama Rose like, okay, that's a that's a take good.
So that's that's good. We can prove upon that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:46):
It's very funny. A Bete Midler one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
Oh, it's so good. And I think it's it's on
Amazon Prime, it's it's streaming, it's they're all great though.
They all have something. And I can also like, I
can't reckon enough. You go to YouTube two thousand and
seven Gypsy Patty lapone and just see the version of
that from somebody's seat in the balcony.

Speaker 4 (01:31:06):
It's still amazing. She's so great, so great.

Speaker 3 (01:31:13):
Whenever people say how demanding she is or she's I
was like, good for her because you know, yeah, she
should be do what she says, because she knows what
she's talking about. I own, do you want to hit
or not? Yes, don't take your phone out in the show.
She will call you out. Wear your mask if she
tells you wear a mask and do what she tells
you to do.

Speaker 4 (01:31:34):
Has the reasons. That's so good. It's so it's yeah,
it's awfully good.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
If we didn't have none of this.

Speaker 4 (01:31:41):
And I really do recommend uh June havocs. The first
one's called Early Havoc, great title, and the second one's
called More Havoc. And I think there's a third one.
I think, but I've only read the first two. If
there is a third one, get them all, get them all,

(01:32:01):
you will enjoy them. Yeah, it's kind of hard to
beat because they are so well written. It's kind of
hard to beat their first hand accounts. However they choose
to color them and tell them right. It's interesting to
me and certainly, and the Karen Abbott one is very

(01:32:23):
interesting too, but like I say, it gives you a
lot more of the history of it, and particularly since
the real version of what happened, even though we have
limited access to all the data about you know, did
she kill two people or just the one? The second murder?

(01:32:43):
By the way, we started talking about it, but I
don't think we finished. But when Mama June was running
that rooming house, she had a woman that she possibly
hard to say, but she had a woman that she
was particularly involved in. And the story is that the

(01:33:06):
story is supposedly the woman made a pass at Louise, right,
I think it was, and Mama June shot her and
killed her and somehow I mean, and if you read
the account like this lady was murdered.

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
She didn't fall out a window or something, right, No,
she was shot.

Speaker 6 (01:33:27):
She did.

Speaker 4 (01:33:29):
And yet somehow it's ruled a suicide. Somehow she did
have a history, so there's that, so they kind of
like use that to kind of but she didn't have anyway.
It seems like she murdered her. It's all I'm saying.

(01:33:52):
Don't know for sure, there's no way to know for sure,
but it sure looks like it. So yeah, and that's
just some of it, you know, Like I said, the
whole like the KKK thing, and they saw those girls
saw a lot of stuff that no no humans should
ever see, let alone a child, right, just put it
that way, like there is some real like oh I

(01:34:17):
wish I hadn't read that in the Abbot book, Like
oh I didn't need to know that. Yeah, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:34:26):
So that they took that and made this work of
art is terrific, is wonderful and I and I think
I love the story of this musical. I love those
characters very much. I love Herbie, I love the music.

Speaker 3 (01:34:44):
I love the song. Yeah, I mean I love song.

Speaker 4 (01:34:46):
I mean it says something that you can see just
let me entertain you, let let alone, like the whole thing,
like with the star spangled banner and all that you
you see you the audience in this show see that.
I don't even know how many times you see somebody
singing let me entertain you. Do you see June sing
it like at least three times, I think, and you
see Gypsy sing it in a number of times, and

(01:35:11):
you're riveted. You're not like, oh this again, because sometimes
we've had a musical where that happens and we're like, okay,
really we got to go this this, We're going to
go back to this song again.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
This is not that.

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
It's great, it's it's beautiful music, wonderful uh character development.
I think in this movie, I think the direction is awesome.
It's not always in the different versions, you know, in
varying degrees, but here I think they really knock it

(01:35:47):
out of the park. They don't allow any of the
weaker stuff to make it into the final picture. I
think they made all the right decisions and what they
decided to put and not put into the final version.
It's great, but you can't be it's such an incredible
story and you have two we have at least two versions.

Speaker 3 (01:36:10):
So yeah, you and I both, by the way, we're
nonfiction writers, and we've interviewed people and about an event
or whatever, and you'll get different accounts from people who will,
sure you will, right in your face, will just say no, no,
I was there and this is what he said or whatever.
So it's yes, yeah, you have to keep that in mind.
I mean people's memories.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
I like that.

Speaker 4 (01:36:30):
I guess I enjoyed. I kind of like when people
give me two different versions of what happened, and I
kind of especially enjoy it when they share their version
and I'm like, oh, that's your takeaway, huh okay, yeah,
what I would have thought. But that's so interesting to
me that that somebody could. Yeah, I just I do.

(01:36:52):
I find that really fascinating to when when you have
those two differing accounts of the same I mean, they
were literally in the same room, these two women, and
they have very different takes on what was going on.
So yeah, I'm going to give it to both of
their memoirs. I'm going to give it to Early Havoc
in particular because it is about that time period in

(01:37:13):
her life, and because the dance marathon stuff. It's she
writes about it, but the way that she writes about
it at firsthand knowledge as one of those it's amazing.
It really is. And also Gypsy's Book is. Gypsy's Book is,
so just get it just you want to own that book.

(01:37:34):
It was it was out of print or you couldn't
get your hands on it for so many years, right
and now it's back. Get it while you can, because
it's only going to go away again.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
So yeah, book, that's when I give us to the book.

Speaker 4 (01:37:46):
Yeah, the books. Yeah, so yeah, that that's what we're
doing this week. And what are we doing next week?

Speaker 3 (01:37:55):
We didn't decide, So let's figure out.

Speaker 4 (01:38:00):
What if I say, I entertained the idea of doing
pal Joey but because it does have that number about
about Gypsy Roslie. But the storyline of it is just
in the It's based on a series of short stories
that were then put into a novel. But it's not
the greatest, it's not. I'm sorry, I'm it's not my favorite.

(01:38:21):
There's some good numbers in it, and the movie is
with Frank Sinatra.

Speaker 3 (01:38:24):
But yeah, well we have Sweet Charity. Uh what else
was I looking at Little Shop of Horrors? We could
do like the original movie and then the the musical. Uh,

(01:38:44):
Quadrophenia by the Who some of the let's see, we'll
take this out of the audio version Billy Elliott, Mama, Mia, uh,
let's do Billy Elliott as I saw them.

Speaker 4 (01:39:01):
Never seen the musical one. I've never seen the music,
but you saw it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:05):
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 4 (01:39:07):
Oh the music. I love that. The original movie.

Speaker 3 (01:39:10):
Yeah, yeah, let's do Billy Elliott. So we'll compare it
to the original film, to the the musical version. That's yeah,
I love that. Yes, yes, yes, exciting. I'm excited about that.
I haven't seen that in so long, and I've never
seen the musical one. I just have never gotten around
to it. It's really good.

Speaker 4 (01:39:29):
But I loved I loved that movie, the original movie,
and it was such a great soundtrack, as I recall.

Speaker 3 (01:39:35):
Okay, all right, well that's what we're doing next. And
as you can tell, we're always looking for suggestions. So
all those places I mentioned at the top of the show,
if you could, you know, reach out to us, that
would be great. Our email, once again is Book Versus
Movie Podcast spilled out at gmail dot com. If you'd
like some stickers once again, send us your address and
one of us will get them out to you. And Margo.
Where can they find you?

Speaker 4 (01:39:57):
You can find me online at coloniabook dot com and
all my my social media call outs are at She's
Not Your Mama, and where can they find you?

Speaker 3 (01:40:04):
You can find me at Brooklynfitchick dot com. I'm at
Brooklynfitchick for threads and Instagram. I'm at Brooklyn Margo for
TikTok and Blue Sky, and then you can go out
my name for YouTube Margo Donaghue, and I have lots
of clips on all those places that take video, so
follow me there. All right, everyone, thank you so much
for listening. We'll be back soon with Billy Elliott. Thank

(01:40:28):
you so much for listening to the Book Versus Movie podcast.
We're a part of the Speaker podcast network. Go to
spreaker dot com to check out all of the shows
they offer. We askedid you make sure to subscribe to
our podcast Book vs. Movie in your podcast app so
that way you'll never miss an episode. If you want
to interact with the Margos, the best place to do

(01:40:50):
that is in our private Facebook group. Go to Facebook
and type in Book vs. Movie Podcast group and ask
to join. On social media, you can find us on
Instagram and threads. You spell out book Versus and Movie.
Our email is book Versus Movie podcast, spelled it all
out at gmail dot com. This is Margo D. And

(01:41:10):
you can find me at my blog, Brooklyn

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