Derek Shulman: Gentle Giant Leader, Record Exec Who Launched Bon Jovi & Re-Booted AC/DC [Episode 339]

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He was the leader of the progressive rock pioneers Gentle
Giant went onto a record label career where he discovered Bond, Jovie,
Dream Theater, Pantera, and orchestrated the comebacks by the band's
ac DC and Bad Company in the nineties. It's Derek
Shulman next on Booke Don Rock.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
We're totally rock and roll. I mean gotta leave you.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
You're reading Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Roll up, I totally booked.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome back to book, Don Rock, the podcast for those
about to read and rock, Eric Senach. Our guest is
Derek Shulman, author of the book Giant Steps, My Improbable
Journey from Stage Lights to Executive Heights. Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Eric, my plaguer to see you, Eric, great book.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Congratulations. We're just chatting a little bit about how the
book's been doing and the responses have been great. I'm
not surprised. There are so many stories. You've had quite
a career, so I've been told, let's start with the
beginning your childhood, where you grew up, because your father
had such an impact on you, both while he was
around and after he passed away, and that really hit

(01:10):
me because I was very close to my dad and
he meant so much to me. I lost him about
three years ago. You talk about his death at such
a young age had a profound effect on you.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, it did. I mean he was a professional musician.
He was a jazz trumpeter, and he had a band,
and I was full of life. I mean, effectively. I'll
tell you that quick story. And you know, one morning
he would get up early, and he was a heavy
smoker and like a jazz you know, a jazz musician,

(01:44):
a bit of a drinker. Not an alcoholic, but certainly drink. Hearing,
and yeah, he was woke up one morning I think
in May and sixty five, and my mother said, he's
not feeling well. And I was I was the man
of the man of the house per se then and

(02:04):
I went to see what was wrong, and my mother say,
he went back to bed, and that's someone like my father.
And when I went upstairs, I can see that he
was very very ill. So I basically ran down from
the stairs, jumped over the wall, the garden wall where
my brother Phil was living, believe it, on the next door.

(02:25):
I said, can you come over quick? My dad, Dad
is really he looks really sick. We both jumped over
and he was. He was gasping for air and basically
he was well I know now, you know, as I
explained in the book, that he was having a massive,
a massive heart attack. So I didn't know that then.

(02:45):
We just thought, what the hell's going on? Feels like,
go get a doctor. So I literally ran about two
hundred yards that where I knew the doctor lived, and
we did up the phone and we had we had
nothing going on, and I knocked the door and said,
my dad's please can you come He actually it was
about six thirty or six forty five in the morning,

(03:05):
and I ran back and when I arrived back, I
ran upstairs and my brother Phil and myself literally saw
him take his last breath, and it was you know.
The doctor ultimately arrived and we said, is there anything
he could do? We did that. We didn't have a
telephone in those days. We're talking about, you know, days

(03:27):
of not very wealthy, let's put it that way, right
Poperty in.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Fact Glasgow, Scotland was Pormuth.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
In the was in England. Basically, we saw him take
his last breath and the doctor said, there's no point
in calling an ambulance when he's gone, and and I
just remember that that shaped my life in so many ways.
Number One, that you lose a father at a young
you know, fair. I was fourteen or fifteen and very

(03:58):
sort of you know, in a bad time for to
lose any any parent. But you know, but at the
same time, it affected me personally because I saw what,
how can I put this, He was a drinker, and
he smoked weight fifty cigarette fifty six or sixty cigarettes

(04:22):
a day. And the fact that he died at fifty
years old, in the prime of his life and the
prime of his a creative life made me. Number One
traumatized me because I have a health anxiety for all
my life, which I explained in the book. And number
two that I not made the decision. The decision was

(04:45):
made that I would never allow myself to be in
a position where I would, you know, let any kind
of substance abuse if you like, and you know not
that drinking or smoking, well are is considered sub abused,
But certainly that was a big factor in my life.
And I have never smoked in my life, and neither

(05:06):
had my siblings by the way, after that day, and
rarely have a class of wine. I've never done any
drug in my life, seriously, except you know, way way back,
I tried marijuana. I didn't like it, and I so
I've never touched anything which affects my my health. I'm

(05:27):
one in my mind altering situation as well.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
That says a lot because you were in a business
where the temptations were there, I'm sure a lot.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Oh absolutely, they were always around and you know, whether
it was a band or or executive, I mean there was.
That was one of the perks of being at that
side of the defense of you know, getting getting high
or or whatever it is to do that. I would
never I have never felt any peer pressure at all
to to you know, yeah, come on, you know, I

(05:59):
wasn't interested in again, you know, in having anything that
would alter my judgment and my mind perception.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
When did you decide you wanted to get into music?

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, music was always around. That's something which was you know,
there was music and musicians were always around our house,
so you know, it was something which I thought everyone had.
Of course, that's I was an unusual environment. You know.
It was a very sort of you know, kind of
almost I can't explain it, but it was. It was

(06:33):
a very free kind of environment. My mother loved music
as well. She's a dancer, and so the music and
musical instruments were always around. But I do remember that,
and we also played the instruments. My brother Ray was
played the violin and you know classically in my father
and my mother encouraged him to uh when when he

(06:57):
was not having lessons to practice. I had played the saxophone.
I we all read music. But I do remember that
when I heard Love Me Do on the radio by
the Beatles, that was a time when I said, Okay,
you know, we're having fun, you know, playing I had
Spanish guitar. But I'm going to be That's this is

(07:19):
going to be my life. I'm going to be a
musician and I want to make make myself. I want
to be a rock star. I mean I said that.
I actually said that in school, but yeah, it was.
It was that that period of time when I heard
the Beatles. It changed everything for me, but also for
everything in England because the culture changed, the the the

(07:41):
music changed. Everything changed in England that period sixty four
sixty five. For until early the early seventies, young people
were were basically you know, you know, encouraging the environment
and and and being the sort of leaders in the

(08:04):
whole the world, I mean in what they were doing,
what we were wearing, what music was being heard, and
it was an incredible time to be in England. And
I think about being a musician, and that's what I did.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
I can only imagine because I'm old enough to remember
what it was like when the grunge rock period took
over and the cultural shift. But that is not even
close to I think what you experienced there being and
you lived in England most of your life, but you
were born in Glasgow, that's correct. Yeah, when did you
move to England?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Nineteen? Well, I was two years old, so it would
have been a forty forty six and I was born
in No, sorry, forty nine. I'm sorry, I'm losing my mind.
You know, I was born in the tenements of Glasgow,
and if you read anything or know about that lifestyle,

(09:00):
it's a pretty horrific situation to be in because you know,
it was in an immigrant situation and my grandparents came
over from Poland and Lithuania and there was you know,
eight families living in the conditions of poverty. We had
one outdoor toilet for eight families, no bathroom. But what

(09:21):
I mean it supports that it wasn't that it wasn't
as it wasn't like a paradise per se. We lived
in a house where we had two bedrooms for a
family of five kids. But again we did have a bathroom.
There was an outhouse and you know the our bath

(09:42):
nights were Friday nights with a tin bath outside the house.
And you know, that's what That's how I grew up.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Now, speaking of the Beatles, great story in the book,
at the age of nineteen, just two years after your
schoolmaster told you you'll never become a pop star, you
were in a band signed the same label the Beatles,
Parlophone Records. Yeah, Simon dupre in the big sound, how
do they form?

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I formed the band with school friends, I said, you know,
after the Beatles happened, and my sister gave me my
first Spanish guitar. I learned three or four chords. I
thought I was a guitarist, so you know, and I
knew a couple of friends who had a guitar, and
we all kind of put it together. And I asked

(10:26):
my brother Ray, who was, you know, a violinist? And
actually being groomed for the National Youth Hocus a great
of Great Britain to be to be in the band,
to play rhythm violin. Actually it's a crazy thing, but
you know. So it was the school you know, school
friends and ultimately we we started playing and we realized

(10:46):
myself and my brother Ray that my school friends weren't
very good and we were music. We had a music.
We had music in our dna. So we picked up
our instruments and you know, thanks to my again thanks
of the DNA of both of my parents, it came
naturally being a musician. So the kids, our soul friends,

(11:09):
dropped out and we eventually got other players from different
bands to join the band. They started playing around the area.
We started playing in the south coast of England and
then other places and we got a really good fan base.
And I asked my elder brother of them to join
the band because he was the teacher and he didn't

(11:31):
like it, and he joined the band as a saxophonist
and trumpet player, and he bought the van. Wow, yeah,
the money.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
So three brothers in the band, three.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Brothers in the band, and three other musicians and my
brother in law, my sister's husband worked for the BBC,
and she said, you know, my brothers are doing really well.
They're playing all around there getting a ton of fans,
which we were why don't you just, you know, go
see them. He did and he became a manager, and

(12:04):
he got as an audition at Abbey Road to get
a record deal. And we went up to abber London
Portsittal Loves about sixty miles and we played in front
of George Martin and all the all the other Jeff
Emeric and Norick Parrim, all the staff there, and we

(12:24):
thought we were going to basically, you know, play a
couple of songs, and they said it was about twenty
twenty five, about twenty five staffers there, and they said,
you know, okay, play your set. I mean we literally
had to play our set in front of like twenty
five people sitting like this. Yeah. But we we pulled

(12:47):
it off. We played our asses off, and we didn't
know whether we had a record deal or not. And
a couple of days later, John King, our brother in law,
called and said, you're on Parlerful Records. Congratulations, we were,
we had a record deal.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Now you were called the road Runners, but then changed
it to Simon Dupree in the Big Sound Simon dupri
the first Lord Mayor of Portsmouth yep. And also you're
named after a journalist writing that you had a very
big sound. So if people are curious, that's that's.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Exactly what happened. I mean we were given these names.
I love those stories and we said, okay, sounds good
to us.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, And you had early success with the singles I
see the light reservations along with Daytime, Nighttime, but it's
with the song Kites that you have a big hit.
It's the first top ten UK single. It's written by
outside songwriters. Though your first words after hearing it was
you've got to be kidding me. In your defense, it
was different from what you previously recorded. Why did the

(13:49):
label feel it was a good idea to record it?

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, actually it was a label and our manager and
they thought, yeah, the first couple of singles they kind
of nudged the top four, but they thought it was
you know, the song could be something that uh could
be could get a radio of course, and that was
very important. And so we we heard it and we

(14:14):
thought this is not our style, but you know what
we'll do. We'll make the best of it, and we
recorded it. And every session in an abbey road is
three hours. I mean literally that's all you had. Every band,
not just us had three hours to write and record
a beat or not right, but record an A side
and the B side. So we went in and recorded

(14:35):
the that song kite and the B side, and we
went actually after right after that was recorded, we took
we were on a tour off Scandinavia and and I remember,
you know, we didn't the record came out about two
weeks later. In those days, it was literally a week

(14:57):
or two weeks later, and I got a call, is
Derek Shulman on board on a on the ferry coming
back from Malmo to Hull in England, and you know,
just as a sidebar, the North Sea in you know,
during that period of time is not a nice place

(15:17):
to have a thirty six hour uh ferry ride because
really we we we were throwing up NonStop and we
you know, sea sickness one. It wasn't even closed. However,
you know, I got this call, a satellite call on
a satellite phone. Is there a Derek Shulman on board?

(15:37):
And my first thought was, oh ship, what's happened? And
I went to the Captain and there's a there's a
call for you from London and it's London. Why not
pour myself say uh? And it was a publicist and
she said, Derek, you know are you saying? I said no,
I'm standing up and she said, your record just hit

(16:00):
the top twenty. Congratulations, you're on Top of the Pops
next week. And being on Top of the Pops that's
a TV show. Yeah, that basically said basically said, if
you're on that show, you're going to be a That
record is going to be a hit record.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
That's a big deal.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Well, like it was yesterday.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
There's a story about Sid Barrett in the book that
thought was really interesting that there was music you recorded
under the name the Moles and it was starting to
take off until Sid Barrett burst the bubble. Tell us
about this, this is a side project you kind of
you want it. It's kind of ties in with the
fact that that song was maybe a little too mainstream

(16:44):
or poppy for you maybe and you're looking to do
something more experimental.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah. Well, in fact, again our manager John, they said
that there's they've had a three hour window in Abbey
Road to record another song. Why you you guys meeting
me and my brothers. No, not the band. It was
just me, Ray and Phil went up and we uh

(17:09):
you know, wrote the song We Are the Males, basically
you know, making a sound which is you know, kind
of psychedelic and and and his idea was to put
it out under with the Males, and uh you know,
it started taking off. People thought it was the Beatles

(17:30):
because it sounded like the Beatles. It was very sageant pepperish,
and it started climbing the charts and it went to
number eighty and then number fifty, and then there was
an article in Melody Maker, which is a British and
music magazine, with an interview with Sid Barrett, who and

(17:53):
Floyd were recording at the same time or after we
recorded that that track, and he was asked about what
do you think of the most because we were they
were psychedelic and this righte this song was getting a
whole lot of airplay and people thought it was like
we were competing with Pink Floyd with our psychedelic sound,
and he said, that's not some new psychedelic band, that's

(18:15):
as shitty group. Simon Duprie. He went from like fifty
to five thousand next week.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Kite's success was a great accomplishment after the hard work
he has put in, and you refuse to give up
and you finally get the hit single, but you say
it was the end of the beginning, of the beginning
of the end for Simon Dupree. Talk about what led
to the end of that band and the start of
Gentle Giant, and Elton John plays a part in this story, right.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yes, Well, Elton during that yeah, just after we had
you know, this very big hit and it was being
played on the radio NonStop. Ar a keyboard player got
well some I can't remember where it was it, but
something which made him very ill and he was not

(19:05):
able to play for several months and we had to
get had to get a debt to play and we
heard from our management there's a keyboard player called reg
Dwight who's really good. So me and my brother Ray
went up to Watford and net Bridge and said, you know, look,
we've got this big tour of England and Scotland. How
would you like to, you know, come and join us?

(19:27):
And he said how much am I going to be paid?
And I said, well about thirty thirty five to forty
pounds a week, and he said that much he was
earning at that time ten pounds a week. So he
came down to Ports to rehearse and he was fantastic.
He was just a superb, you know, he learned the
music within a day. And we went on on that

(19:51):
tour with him, and he saw we saw in him
someone who was number one, a great guy and someone
who's very sp but also someone who could was a friend,
who could be a friend, and we ultimately remain friends
until this day. And he would also someone who was
incredibly musical and and new music that we we we

(20:15):
weren't really aware of and and he said, you guys
are so good. Have you heard other bands like like
Spirit in the in in California and Zappa of course
you know Miles Davis And he said, yeah, we're familiar
with them, but not as much as you are. Tell
us more about it, and so he basically kind of
introduced us to a sound that we weren't really felt

(20:36):
familiar with. And when he finished, we we we basically
started listening to things outside of our own cocoon. And
when we decided to finish Simon Dupree, we remember that
reg you know, basically turned us on to music that

(20:56):
we thought was quite really interesting. And I called him
and said, we're doing what you kind of like intimated
when you were with us last year. We're going to
break up this band and we're going to put a
new band together. Are you interested? He said absolutely, So
we went up to being Ray went up to what
he was living with his mom and he just met

(21:17):
Bernie at that time, and Bernie was there.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
And they were writing songs together at that house.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
At the house, yeah, and he was so he said,
written several things, you know, which you know, I'm going
to record somehow, and he sat playing as a you know,
skyline pigeon and a couple of other songs. And to
be honest with you, we we didn't say anything to him,
but you know, we didn't think it was for us.

(21:47):
And then at the same time he start up changing
my name from Rege Dwaite to Elton John and we thought, oh,
that would work. So you know, of course, you know,
on both so we decided that it wasn't going to
work for us, and we said that's okay, right, you know,
you know, look, well we'll be back in touch. Thank
God for him that we turned down and the next

(22:10):
the next year he was out and John and the
next year we were a gentle Giant and Troia sky
around for gigs. So you know, it was it was
a good situation that we said no thanks to Skyline Pigeon.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
What a great story and you went through. The name
changed too, gentle Giant, So that comes thanks to somebody
named Colin Richardson. Who is Colin And what's the story
behind the band name?

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Well, Colin worked for a manager, a new manager, Jerry Brown,
and Jerry was a manager of the last stages of
Simon Dupree. And we told we told Jerry, we don't
want to do this anymore. Even though we're we were
still very popular, we're still making good money. And he said,

(22:54):
what do you mean. I said, we want to do
something which is completely different, something which is one to
eighty from you know, from going to these venues and
and people wanting to hear the hits and us we
were we were progressing as musicians anyway, and it was
very stymying, so that in certain respects, having a couple
of big hits were like millstones were our next in

(23:16):
certain respects. So we said we want to start something
new and he said, you know what, if you if
you want to start something new, I will fund that
and I will you know, for for six to nine months.
You find the right musicians and and you know, you
put this new band together. And I have to say

(23:36):
that in itself is like no one, no when would
do that today. I mean, that's I mean, so patronature
is like unbelievable. He had that much faith in the
Shulman brothers, if you like. And we started writing new
stuff and then we started looking for musicians that could,
you know, put us together and and do something completely new.

(23:58):
We didn't know what it was going to be. We
had no idea, but we did loath that it wasn't
going to be anything like we did before. And the
first musician that joined us was Carriebine, or our keyboard player,
who had just graduated from the Royal Kennedy of Music
with a decoreean composition and percussion, and we invited him

(24:19):
down to Portsmouth and we thought, holy shit, this is something.
This is someone who is not just amazing as a musician,
but someone who is an incredible songwriter as well. So
you know, we we were trying to write songs and
trying to put new things together. But he fitted in
so well, both personally and musically and also and also

(24:43):
a friend wise. So he moved down to Portsmouth and
then we advertised for a guitarist and we went through
forty or fifty guitars until we found Gary Green and
Gary A and he came. We were rehearsing in London
and we you know, we invited guitarists to come in,

(25:07):
and he was the first guitarist to basically say, can
I just chew it up first place? When he said
that he almost had a gig there, right, So, but
he was a great player. I mean, we you know,
we knew that Gary was fitting in perfectly.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
I really admire that the integrity of what you did.
And for financial reasons, we know, gentle Giant worked out
and you built up a great fan base and you
did just fine. But to pursue the art, in other words,
you're not looking for hit singles. Hit singles can make
you a lot of money, right, You're not even thinking
about that. You're just thinking about the total vision is

(25:46):
what we want to do from an artistic standpoint, Was
there ever any concern about making sure that you're you're
going to get by financially or did you just say
we'll find a way to make it work.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I think the ladder. I think that we will. We
will find a way to make it work. But listen,
we didn't do it for fame and fortune, unlike today's generation.
We did it for the music. And we yeah, and
we all were also worked. We were work workingholics. We
worked really hard, you know, having been in cyber Do

(26:16):
pre in the Big Sound, it was a fantastic apprenticeship,
you know. We during that period of time we could
literally play eleven or twelve shows a week seriously, and
so you you would learn how to entertain as well
as play, I mean play your instrument really well, because
if you didn't, you weren't going to be in a band.

(26:38):
You're going to know no one would come to see you.
So we that was a great apprenticeship to be in
a different kind of band but playing different kind of music.
It was, it was, it was. It was a good apprenticeship.
And we had musicians around that could push us and
we pushed them. So that was something that we were

(26:59):
able to do. And again and we were lucky in
that we had a pat pot if you like but
at the same time we were we were pretty good
from the get go. I mean, we we worked our
asses off to make sure that we played live really well,
and that was in fact, in serve respects, we were
much better as a live band. We did much better

(27:22):
as a live band and than a recording a recorded band. Again,
that was something that we throughout the ten years of
General Giant, that was something that we always had. I mean,
we felt like the recordings were sketches for the oil
painting we took on the stage.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
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(28:05):
Listen with confidence. We should go right now to Tony Visconti,
who was the ideal producer for the band, right. I mean,
he was the guy that was gonna help transfer that
live energy and sound into the studio and he was
so important to the band he worked with t Rex Badfinger, Strabs,
David Bowie. Of course, why was he the ideal producer

(28:29):
for Gentle Giant.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
We didn't know him, but he was suggested to be
our producer and we met him, and again, we're so
we've been very lucky in that we just hit it
off and it was like he was a member of
the band and he saw that we were pretty good musically,
and so was he. He was classically trained and he
taught us how to record. We had never done an

(28:53):
LP before. I meant, we had an LP with Simon
Dupree that was a series of like singles put together,
but doing an album was a whole different animal. But
he was you know, I just saw him a couple
of weeks ago. We did an in store together, a
radio show together, and we talked about what it was.

(29:16):
He really admired our musicianship, he really did, and we
admired his musicianip. He was really a super musician. And
we also like it was like having an open book
and we filled it completely with all the ideas that
were coming out, and he was able to whittle down
those ideas into that first album called Gentle Giant. We

(29:39):
were so lucky that we had Tony there at the
first at the first outset.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
And it was a ten year run nineteen seventy to
nineteen eighty. Gentle Giant was together and there was a
point halfway through nineteen seventy four when you write about
everything clicked, you were the best band on the planet.
There was a show at the Shrine Auditorium in Los
Angeles where you say it was like an odd of
body experience. I mean, the band was just so tight.

(30:04):
But this is around the time when things start to
come apart. What was happening at that period, People got older,
priorities changed, band fatigue. What was going on?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, I think seven but the Shrimee. Yeah, the Shrine
was an incredible gig. I do remember that where literally
the fans, eight thousand people, uh would not would not
leave the auditorium. They refused after two or three encres
and we didn't have any more music to play them,
and we we played was it in the only you

(30:41):
know when you do her you know, when you do
your sound check, you play different bits and pieces, and
we played in the midnight hours one of our you know,
sound check songs, and we've had something else, so we
at the very last song we had, we had no music,
and we went out there and said, look, we don't
have any more materials, so we're going to just play
in the midnight hour. And they actually started leaving the

(31:04):
auditorium after that. But that was about That was an
incredible thing that for ten or fifteen minutes a crowd stays,
stays and just cheers. It's such a an amazing moment
that you know what you can you can't, but it was,
it was, it was a highlight. And you know, but
that period of time, we were on fire. We were

(31:25):
were we produced at that point. I think the Power
in the Glory and Free Hand, uh probably our best
I guess some of our best material. And we were
we were clicking as a mature, you know band that
we're doing quite well. I mean as far as fan base,
we weren't selling millions of records. We were on certainly

(31:48):
the top forty of top fifty with a couple of
our albums.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
At that point, when you reach that peak, is that
where maybe things start to decline a bit, like, hey,
we've reached as far as we could go, or because
it was still a ways that you like nineteen seventy eight,
the album Giant for a Day, you changed the sound
little bit more pop rock sensibility to it wasn't received
well by fans, but you came back with Civilian in
nineteen eighty and a lot of critics theorized that if

(32:12):
the band continued with that sound would have been the
springboard for General Giant to evolve further, maybe break through
to a bigger or massive audience. But you felt that
it was time to pull the plug.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Why was that, Well, you know the bottom line, Well, yes,
you're right exactly. Yeah. We've followed up with Interview, which
was which was received pretty well, I mean, not as
good as a Power and Glory. And then I guess it.
And then we then we saw and heard that realized
that radio had changed in America. America was a big marketplace.

(32:49):
I mean, obviously we still did very very well in
Europe and Canada all places, but the US was a
big marketplace and radio had changed. And they'll play they
used to play a side of the record of any
anti band and or you know, it was a free
form radio and then ao R hit radio and they

(33:09):
played one track of an album and that one track
had to be you know, had to sort of kind
of crossover and we heard artists who were in me
basically the same in the same sort of the same
kind of place that we were in like a genesis.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
And yes right genre, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, exactly that we're able to get a track that
was able to be on FM radio, which was kind
of a single uh, and we were we were never
we never thought ourselves as a singles band. We did
that before. That's something we we just want. We weren't
really what one we were really interested in doing. However,

(33:56):
I guess peer pressure and knowing that that would certainly
brain boarders to that level of of of wherever they
were going to to try and do something which is
a little more commercial. And that was you know, something

(34:16):
we should we should and didn't want to do, but
we shouldn't have tried, because we were never a band
that intended to be commercial. We were a band that
we were probably selfish, and the fact that we were
we did it for ourselves first and and pushed ourselves
number on and then we pushed it, took it on
stage and hoped that what we did would make an

(34:38):
audience enjoy what we did and also have fun as well,
and then we so we realized that if we didn't
do that, then our audiences might dwiddle a little, which
they started to they started to do to dwindle, and
we realized, Okay, then we have have to try something.
And then Giant Ford that we did Giant for a Day,
which is our attempt if you like, to make a

(35:03):
poppier commercial record, and some of it, you know, it's
it's some of it's pretty good. However, you know, it
wasn't what General Giant was originally made for, and the
fans did not like that album, and and ultimately it
was not really a band an album that we should

(35:23):
have made.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
How do you feel about Civilian?

Speaker 2 (35:28):
I think Civilian is a really good album, and I
think that you know, the band feels they're mixed about that,
but I think it's a really good album. However, uh, Columbia,
you know, and I thought, okay, if we do this
and kind of take out some of the experimental beat
stuff but keeping the musicality, Ah, this gives us a

(35:50):
shot to to break into the eighties and what other
bands did. And Columbia, who we signed to after Capital,
basically let the ball drop and effectively it didn't. It
didn't happen. I mean it wasn't. It didn't get any
radio play. We toured on it, but really, uh, it was.

(36:13):
And that was the sort of signal to the band
that look, if you could continue, we could do another track,
we could have another album. But then you started to
become a tribute tribute band, then you become a parody
of what you started out to become. So even though
we toured with that that album and we did quite well,

(36:36):
we knew. In fact, we had a meeting before the
year tour and I and Carrie the keyboard player, decided
we weren't going to continue with this because I saw
the writing on the wall that you know that if
we continued and started doing stuff that we did ten
twelve years ago, it would it would it would just
it would destroyed what we started out to want wanting

(36:59):
to be. And I just saw that happening, and that
vision of you know, of trying to be someone who
you were ten, fifteen, twenty years ago and a member
leaves and then you get someone else that that's a
horror show to me, and that's something I would ever
want and we would want, ever want. So we decided

(37:22):
to stop the stop the band, stop the music, and
that chapter, that ten year chapter for me and for
all of us, was closed, and it was a superb
chapter for me.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Hey guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
I want to tell you about an exclusive deal for
bookedown Rock listeners. Get fifteen percent off any purchase at
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(37:59):
Old Glory. Make sure to use the promo code. Booked
on Rock. Also find a link in this episode show notes,
or just go to booked on Rock dot com and
click on my deals. Giant Steps. My Improbable Journey from
stage lights to executive heights is the book. We're here
with the author and the man who lived that journey,
Derek Shulman. Third part of the book gets into your

(38:19):
new path as a record executive. In nineteen eighty two,
you moved to New York to become director of rock
radio promotions with PolyGram, band you worked with early on
the Jam Tears, for Fears, Scorpions Kiss. In nineteen eighty three,
you moved out of radio promo and into an R.
What's the main job of an A and R guy?
For those who are not familiar with you, hear that

(38:40):
term A lot A and R guy.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
A and R does it today, It doesn't mean anything
to what it did when I was doing it. Artists
and REPTRAI is what actually means. And you are the
person that decides or finds the artist that the record
company will put their marketing and resources, their promotional resources,
their sales resources, et cetera, behind their recordings. And that's

(39:07):
that's who you were. You were the guy that finds
the talent for the record label. That's what That's what
it was back in the day. And that's what I became.
And I realized that that's that was something that I
was pretty good at. Uh And but you know, good
in the in the fact that I could bring a

(39:29):
lot of my background, all of my background to this
new situation which I had never in a million years
thought I would be in.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
But yeah, I don't think any of your peers expected it.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Right, absolutely not. I mean it was you know, it
was almost like Luke Skywalker turning into Darth Vader.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yes, right, because now you've got to look for bands.
You're looking for hit songs, hit bands, the look, the sound.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, yeah, and you know, but you know I did
know about having hits because we had a hits and
a couple of hits with my first band. But you know, yes,
I had to think about commercial success as well as
well as as well as I'll use this word authenticity, right,

(40:18):
And every band that I signed and I was involved with, uh,
And you know, I'll say this, you know, say out
loud because it's important that you know, people think, oh,
there he was in this great, you know, prog band,
and he you know, he sold out. You know, I
sold I looked for anyone, no matter who it was,
to be authentic and to do something that no one

(40:41):
else is doing, whether it's pop or rock, or or
or progressive music or country or or hip hop or
whatever they were. You know, authentic is but the most
important thing for me, and most just about every band
I worked with were authentic in their own way.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah. One of the early bands, bon Jovi. Two weeks
into your gig, you hear a song on a Long
Island radio station that you couldn't get out of your head.
And it was called Runaway by a kid from Saraville,
New Jersey. It wasn't a band yet, It's just John
bon Jovi shared with us some of the story of
signing bon Jovi.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Well, I heard this song run Away on the radio
and I thought, damn it, said what a great song
it was, and it was. It was a song that
John was able to get on the sampler of music
local music in New York and it was called Johnny
bon Jiovi. But I kept hearing this on this radio

(41:39):
station w APP and I said, wow, this is this
what is the song? And when it came on, I
just did just inquiries. Uh, and I heard from that
he was represented by a lawyer in Philadelphia called Arthur Mann.
I got in touch with him and he said, yeah,
this is kid. He's he's working at power station for

(42:00):
a second cousin, Tony Jovi. Uh. And he recorded this
song with with some session guys. Do you want to
hear more. I've got a demo of his stuff and
I said I'd love to hear it. And he brought
the demo and uh, there were really good songs. You know,
I thought, who the hell is. So I said, I'd
love to meet John, and uh, he came over to

(42:25):
my office and literally when he came in, every girl's
head turned around. I'm sure there's a cle this guy.
He's like, he's so good looking. His hair was like,
you know, flowing, and boy, the girls were like, wet.
I'll just leave it to your man.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Now. What was on that demo, by the way, was
were songs from that first album like Roulette and it was.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, songs on that first album.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
She don't know me. I think he is on that
original too.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, yep, yeah exactly, yeah yeah. And so when I
sat down with him, I said, John, I mean this.
I saw this, and we've got talking about what it was,
who I was, and why I was doing. We were
sitting together and I said, so, what is it Who

(43:16):
is it you want to be? Because John, you know,
it could be a he's so good looking and he
could be a pop star or a rock star or something.
I said, what is it and who is it you
want to be? And he looked, he looked at me
in the eye and said, I want to be bigger
than Elvis. And when he said that, you could take

(43:36):
it two ways or three ways he's I'm being pumped
or or he's just saying that because that's what he
had to say because he's in singing with this guy,
you know. But no, this came. I could tell that
this was this was something in his head that no
one was going to stop him if he's given a chance.
And I believed him, and and he was putting this

(43:58):
band together. And I saw a couple of Richie joined
the band. Uh and uh. He had he had a
couple of other guys from.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Jersey, yeaho Alec, Alec.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Dave Brian, you know, Dave Rashpell at the time, a
couple of showcases. And I said to my boss, I'm
gonna sign him because I knew that the potential was
that they weren't amazing when they started, but and you
know they they they had all the elements that I
knew that it would it would take to make them

(44:34):
make it work. I introduced him to Doc McGee and
we recorded the first album in the power station.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Did you see a chemistry between John and Richie?

Speaker 2 (44:47):
That was it? That was when he got Richie. That
was you know, you in every band in the rock genre,
there's always you have to have you know, there's you know,
there's a Joe Perry and Steven Eyler, there's Mick Jagger
and Keith Richards, John bon Jovi and Richie Sam Borer.
That was perfect. His choice of Richie being in the

(45:07):
band and their choice was perfect, and they were so
good together. Well, the whole was so good.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
I know everybody loves Slippery when we which I do too,
but I say it all the time. New Jersey is
right at the top my favorite Bond Jovie album. It's
the songs that are not just the singles, it's the
album tracks that are so good.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
And that was well, so you know that was New
Jersey was, I mean that sort of Slippery was the
third album and we I introduced him to the Desmond
Child okay, you know, and you know I said, John,
how about writing with someone else? Had it been had
it been me? Uh? Saying that to me and in

(45:47):
another band, I said, I was just going to hell.
But John was very pragmatic. He said, look, you know,
if it works, it works, and it obviously worked and
we went to Vancouver with to do the album with
Ruce Fairman, Bob Brock and Mike Fraser and surpre was
was Sippery when we was recorded. We put the record

(46:08):
out and it was gigantic.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Desmond wrote, you give love a bad name, Living on
our Prayer, Living on a Prayer, which I remember John
bon Jovi saying living on a Prayer. I don't think
that's going to be a hit.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Oh no, that's not true.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
He didn't say that because I thought he was a
quote that he said, and he's like, boy was I was?
I wrong?

Speaker 2 (46:28):
What that's you know, that's history read in a different fashion. However,
he did tell me that when he wrote I was
listening to the demos, he said, this song I think
will be a classic, not not a Living on a
Prayer is one to dead or alive. Yeah, I've got
this song and I'm sure it's going to be this.

(46:48):
This will be an art classic, you know. And he's
all wrong.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Oh no, that's a He's a classic now, he said.
John was never arrogant, but he knew how to play hardball.
You found this out when he asked for a separate deal.
He wanted a separate deal, not a band contract.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
That surprised me actually, you know, because it was a band.
I mean he was putting his band together and when
I put my our band together. We shared everything. But
he you know, he was he was smart. I mean,
you know he was he was a leader. And you know,
when I thought about it, you know, it was him
putting the band together. He did run away, you know,

(47:25):
with other players, and so in certain respect, I was
surprised that that a band's a band for me, but
you know, it was John's band, but it was a
band still, and so the other guy's got different kinds
of deals. But that when he said that, it was like, well,
let's are you sure that's gonna work? John, he said, look,

(47:46):
that's what I want, and you know what, I went
along with him.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
John's cousin, Tony not exactly a supportive guy when it
came to John. In fact, there was a legal battle
early on.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
It was I mean, in fact, when I signed him,
he basically said, you can't sign any signed to me.
Wait a second, and in fact that he John did
sign a deal with Tony, the second cousin, and we
had to put our resources to get him out of
that deal, and to this day he has Tony has

(48:24):
a point or two. On the first couple of albums.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
You signed Cinderella to a development deal with a great band.
You called an Andy John's to produce. I've heard some
wild Andy John's stories. You've got one in the book.
You get a call from the singer Tom Keefer who
tells you Andy's bleeding to death. What happened Andy?

Speaker 2 (48:43):
I've worked with Andy after that. I mean that was
my first, you know, go around with Andy and Andy. Uh,
it's crazy, I mean it's crazy. I mean he'll also
you know a little him again does does stuff that
I don't advocate. But yeah, he love. He was. He
was loving the music so much that when I walked

(49:04):
into the studio, he just let he was. I think,
I don't know what he was taking, but he was saying,
this music is unbelieved. I can't I can't believe how
great it is. And and and I'm going to bleed
this music. And he lived for he was. He was
clicking risks and not not to the not to the rtery,
but his wrists are bleeding and and writing love on

(49:27):
these speakers with the blood top was fucking freaking out,
he said. And I heard stories about and I said, Andy,
come on, man, cooled down a bit. He said, no,
this band. I just love this band, and I'm going
to prove it to you by click my wrists and
not not to the you know, and he lially did.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Hardcore man Andy John's was a great producer.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Yeah he was. He was the epitome of rock and roll,
that kind of rock and roll. But that's not my style.
I mean cutting his surts and doing that made it
do it. But what do he put? We finished? Nice
was a nice song. No, it was the first album.
That was it and that Blue into the charts at
Blue right now.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
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(50:37):
tune In, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show, so you signed bon Jovi, Cinderella, Kingdom Come,
and Dan Reid Network, as well as rebooting the careers
of men without Hats and to a lesser extent, you're

(51:00):
right heat, but at PolyGram you had climbed as high
as you were going to get. There would be a
career move coming. You had offers including Atlantic Records. You
ultimately end up with at Corecords, where you were the
president and CEO. One of the early bands you signed
there was Pantera. You were with PolyGram when you were

(51:22):
interested in them initially, right, tell us about that experience
discovering them, working with them. Each guy had a unique
personality made for a perfect combination of creative forces.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
In the top three bands at the live bands that
weren't signed that, I think theyre number one or two.
For me, I went down. I was to ley Rum
because they've had records they did before for their own
on their own label with Vivian, Darryl's father in Texas,

(51:53):
and you know, they were kind of a hair band
at one point, and then when Phil joined, the sound
became a lot harder and they put out a record
called Power Para Metal and it changed us sound a
little bit. And then they're they're lawyer a guy called
Jules kurtse Uh he was. He showed me this video
at PolyGram and I said, wow, that band is straight

(52:15):
and these songs that they're doing. What this I've never
seen this before or heard this. And I said, look, look,
bring it to me when I you know, when I'm over.
I was basically serving my notice out and going to
be at at ATC and I went over there and
he said, you know, the band's really you know, you

(52:36):
want to go see the band? And I said, sure,
of course I would, And I went down to a
club in Arlington, Texas. Uh. Running a record label, I
have sixty seventy people for working for me, and I
just remember going down there thinking, damn, I hope they're
as good as what I just saw on video here

(52:56):
and with those three songs I want was just a fan.
I just knew that this band had everything. I mean,
I almost jumped to the morsh bit, even though it
was a small marsh bit. Yes, I mean there Phil
was just a brilliant, amazing front man. You know. Vinnie
was just just it was blew me away as a

(53:18):
drummer dining bag just like it was. It was everything,
and they had the audience completely wrapped and within those
three songs third song, I just knew that if I
went down there and went down and with a I
hope they're as good, and came away saying they're not
just as good, they're better that they're there's something different
they're they're incredibly special and they were doing something that

(53:41):
no one else is doing. I signed basically on the spot.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
The personalities of each guy very.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Unique, oh unique class. I mean they were real rowdy
Texans and and you know, thankfully I had a couple
of you A and R guys working for me that
I put in place to try to keep up with them.
Their black tooth s brims, you know, there their shots
and beer and and and you had to keep up
with them. And I do this and throw it over

(54:08):
my shoulders. Ah, but they were there. But they were
always great, great person wonderful people. That's the best you know,
the best person is until Phil. You know, I had
moved on by the until Phil, you know, uh discovered
the the wonders of hard drugs and that was a

(54:32):
tough thing for that and when they when they broke up,
it was so sad that this band who were just
like they were again, completely authentic doing something and no
one else is doing and so fucking good at it. Yeah,
you know, I was number one, the number one fan,
and when I signed them, I knew that number one,

(54:53):
you know, radio was playing a r and I knew
they would never be on radio. Number two the n TV,
he was still going as a number of marketing tool,
and I knew this band would never be an MTV band.
So I said, you know, I'm going to market the
band by first of all getting a good manager. And
I found him a good manager, a guy called Walter O'Brien,
and putting my money or other money in the record

(55:16):
of the company's money. By their tour, I said, you
go out there and tore your rass off, because if
you could convince being in three songs, you know, you
got five hundred people. And then six months later, five
thousand people were shot. And sure enough, that's.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
What happened, exactly what happened.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
And then Cowboys from Hell came out and it blew
into the top five, and then the second album, Volgar
dis by a Power came out it went right at
number one.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
You re established the career of ac DC This is
a great story. Talk about this. At the time you
worked with them, they were on Atlantic and on the
verge of being dropped.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah, they were. And that that was when I heard
the news that they were thinking of dropping a CDC.
I mean, I just like you can't drop acc they
are rock and roll. This what was about? So I
I had inherited a couple of artists on that co.

(56:12):
I had to size and new artists of course, including
Panther and Dream Theater, et cetera, et cetera. But I
had Stevie Nicks and Pete Townsend I inherited from the
old at Co repertoire. And I said to the head
of the Water people it was a war of music
group thing. How about instead of you dropping a and

(56:34):
them not having a label, I take them on and
I'll trade Stevie Nicks to Atlantic. Was almost like a
baseball trade. And uh, you know, a CC was known
as being very anti They would not allow people around
them in the record couple of people around. They thought

(56:56):
the record guys were all suits and no knew nothing
about what was like. Thankfully I got the word from
their brother George, who was in the back of the
Easy beats, and he said, if it's the same Derek
Shulman that was in the group Simon Dupree, then he's

(57:16):
a musician. His is that Mike, Malcolm and Angus and
I was able to get their Trustn't that amazing?

Speaker 1 (57:25):
This is why how life works like that?

Speaker 2 (57:29):
And they opened the door to me.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Yeah, because they had to blow up your video and
came out and eighty eight it did okay.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Just okay, and then flicker the switch before.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Right flick of the switch. But then that came. Then
comes Razor's Edge.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
And so I said, you know that guys here, let's
let's get you back to where you should be. And I,
you know, got got them in touch with my go
to producers Bruce Fairburn Bob Rock in Vancouver and Gain
I said, look, you don't have to record tomorrow, give
you let's let's get some time. But you know, and

(58:01):
put put together a great a CDC album And and
to be fair, Bruce fair and brought they assisted on
as well, because they would they would die to work
hoard them, but only when they had the great songs. Uh.
So we all went up to Vancouver and we produced
the Razor's Edge and we decided what the first track
was going to be, and we put it out and

(58:24):
Thunderstruck hit the hit the way our waves and a
CdCO was back in a huge way.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
And it's a song you still hear everywhere, sports stadiums, everywhere,
and it had money talks and it had are you
ready that that whole album I love And really they
haven't looked back ever since.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I mean, and you know that we did the live
album then and that's uh, you know, that was me,
I hope, you know, helping them to rediscover there their
uh you know, there their chops and and what they
should be on as as the probably one of the
best ever rock and roll bands.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yeah, hands down. Now another story similar is Bad Company.
This is a band without Paul Rodgers. Brian Howe was
the lead singer. They had been written off. Talk about
how you get them back into the spotlight.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Same kind of situation. The manager begged me actually to
to there. They were going to be dropped agay, and
Brian was a singer. They had They had one album
out with Brian, but Brian didn't get along with the
rest of the band. Brian has had an ego a
great singer, but had neo that really put make mc

(59:42):
gralf's back up a lot, and and and really opened
his mouth too much, you know, in the shoes of
Paul Rodgers. I mean that's it's a difficult it's a
difficult hole to fill basically, and Brian tried to. I
mean he did feel it actually in a major way.
But his vocals and his style were not exactly what

(01:00:04):
Bad Company used to be. But I knew Brian. This
is a crazy story because the manager said would you
take over this this this job of being on ADC,
And I said, Okay, I think I will because I
knew Brian was a really good singer, a great singer.
And the producer Terry Thomas, I knew very well as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
He was previously with Ted Nugi, Right Brian, How.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Brian was news singer? Yeah, but I knew him from
way way before that, because he was from my hometown
of Portsmouth and he used to come see gentle giant rehearse.
Oh wow, so he's English, and I could relate to
him as as a person that from from my towntown.

(01:00:51):
And I knew that he had a mouth on him
that would put people's backs up, but I could I
could tell Brian, Brian, shut the f up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
And you know if you said that to a musician,
you know, generally you as a record company guy, you
you would get a you know, either a punch in
the nose or or fuck you. But he would listen
to me, so, you know, he would, he would. We could,
We could relate to each other, and so I was
able to get them to record together because Mick and

(01:01:24):
and Simon, you know, they were like this guy, but
we can't, you know, we really can't deal with But
we did and we were produced the album Holy Water,
and that album just again just blew into the charts.
That single went number one If.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
He Needed Somebody, the title track, and there's one more yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Three, four, three or four singles on that and bad
Company was told of the charts again, all be different
kind of bad Company.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Find the Bookdown Rock website at bookdown Rock. There and
can find all the back episodes of the show, the
latest episode in video and audio, links to all of
the platforms where you can listen to the podcast, plus
all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
and x. Also check out the booked on Rock blog.
Find your local independent bookstore. Find out all the latest

(01:02:20):
hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
the booked on rock online store. Pick up some booked
on rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot com. Well,
there's so much more on the book. I didn't even
ask you about Enough's Enough, Kingdom Come and Dream Theater.
You became president of Roadrunner Records, overseeing signings of Slipknot
and Nickelback. Amazing career. I want to finish by asking

(01:02:44):
you about your epilogue in the book. And you recently
had a chance to revisit your gentle giant music through
a project involving the nineteen seventy three album in a Glasshouse,
And there was a pretty emotional experience for you in
a Did you think about your dad and your late
brother Ray and your brother Phil and your bandmates and

(01:03:05):
talk about that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Yeah, I'm still in the middle of almost finished actually
that and that you know, there's there's something I mentioned, Well,
didn't know the whole idea that tech and and has
taken over and and has kind of flattened out a
lot of creativity. However, you know, I'm using the highest

(01:03:27):
end AI to separate the track That album was the
only was an album that we couldn't find the multi
tracks to We've remixed or Stephen Wilson has done a
lot of a lot of remixing for us on our catalog,
but that one, the multis we just could not find.
So I'm I'm in the studio now remixing in a Glasshouse.

(01:03:51):
That was the album after my brother Phil left and
we went into the studio with a very hard record
to make. But I'm using this highest in ai. It's
much more it's even much more further advanced than the
Beatles here now or whether it's called. And I'm able
to separate the tracks individually, and it's brought back a

(01:04:14):
lot of memories. And we're putting this album out in
twenty twenty six and it's it sounds it sounds so good,
and I'm just listening to it almost like it's the
first time, and I'm sitting there saying to myself and
I'm saying to my insient here, damn we were damn good.
You know really? Yeah, could I could actually say it

(01:04:36):
out loud? Where do those ideas come from? You know,
it's it's it's you know, it's amazing to me, you know,
so I'm yeah, that's That's exactly what I'm doing as
we speak.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Looking forward to that. In the meantime, the book is out.
Let's see did it? It's out to Okay December second
through job On Press, so people can get a word.
Her books are sold all the usual outlets. You can
go to a book down rock dot com to find
your nearest independent bookstore to see if you want to
find a copy there. And where can people find you online?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Derek five you through a gentlegiant band dot com. We
have our own you know, merched and and is taking
care of my son has done a ton of uh
helping the keeping the legacy alive. I feeling and the
great thing is is that I'm you know again, When
I think back about my life, through through the book

(01:05:33):
and through whatever I've done, the thing that really I
and I hope that comes through is is that I
was raised in the musical house or music has been
everything to me. And when I while I'm doing this
this album in a glasshouse, it really reiterated who I

(01:05:56):
am and what I am music and musician. Even though
I was you know, an an R guy and ran
Company's music was everything everything and that's still that brought
it home to me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah, reminded you what it's all about. That at the
core of it is the music. It's an incredible talent.
It's a gift that you give to us, the music fans,
that you can't put a price on it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Well, again, it wasn't about fame of fortune. It was
about playing music.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Derek Sherman, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
My pleasure. That's it. It's in the books.

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