December 7, 2025 • 9 mins
The story of how veteran musician/record executive Derek Shulman found and signed Jon Bon Jovi, who was determined to be a big star.
Listen to Episode 339 - Derek Shulman: Gentle Giant Leader, Record Exec Who Launched Bon Jovi & Re-Booted AC/DC
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The Booked On Rock Music: “Whoosh” by Crowander / “Last Train North” & “No Mercy” by TrackTribe
Listen to Episode 339 - Derek Shulman: Gentle Giant Leader, Record Exec Who Launched Bon Jovi & Re-Booted AC/DC
15% OFF Any Purchase At Old Glory For Booked On Rock Listeners! — Over 300,000 officially licensed items. Featuring legendary music artists like Bob Marley, The Beatles,
Grateful Dead, and more. Use the code "BOOKEDONROCK" or hit this link:
https://oldglory.com/discount/BOOKEDONROCK
----------
Booked On Rock is part of The Boneless Podcasting Network
BookedOnRock.com
The Booked On Rock Store
The Booked On Rock YouTube Channel
Follow The Booked On Rock with Eric Senich:
BLUESKY
TIKTOK
X
Find Your Nearest Independent Bookstore
Contact The Booked On Rock Podcast: thebookedonrockpodcast@gmail.com
The Booked On Rock Music: “Whoosh” by Crowander / “Last Train North” & “No Mercy” by TrackTribe
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here's a highlight from a recent episode of booke Don
Rock Giant Steps. My improbable journey from stage lights to
executive heights is the book. We're here with the author
and the man who lived that journey, Derek Shulman. Third
part of the book gets into your new path as
a record executive. In nineteen eighty two, you moved to
New York to become director of rock radio promotions with
PolyGram Band you worked with early on the jam Tears
(00:23):
for Fears Scorpions Kiss. In nineteen eighty three, you moved
out of radio promo and into an R. What's the
main job of an A and R guy? For those
who are not familiar with you, hear that term A
lot A and R guy.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
A and R does it today, It doesn't mean anything
to what it did when I was doing it. Artists
and reptriiz is what actually means. And you are the
person that decides or finds the artist that the record
company will put that marketing and resources, that promotion resources
and sales resources, etc. Behind their recordings. And that's that's
(01:02):
who you were. You were the guy that finds the
talent for the record label. That's what That's what it
was back in the day, and that's what I became.
And I realized that that's that was something that I
was pretty good at. Uh And but you know, good
in the in the fact that I could bring a
(01:24):
lot of my background, all of my background to this
new situation which I had never in a million years
thought I would be in.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But yeah, I don't think any of your peers expected it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Right, absolutely not. I mean it was you know, it
was almost like Luke Skywalker turning into Darth Vader.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yes, right, because now you've got to look for bands.
You're looking for hit songs, hit bands, the look, the sound.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, and you know, you know I did know
about having hits because we had a hits and a
couple of hits with my first ban, But you know, yes,
I had to think about commercial success as well as
well as as well as I'll use this word authenticity, right,
(02:13):
and every band that I signed and I was involved with, uh.
You know, I'll say this, you know, say out loud,
because it's important that you know, people think, oh, there
he's in this great you know, prog band and he
you know, he sold out. No, no, you know, I
sold I looked for anyone no matter who it was,
to be authentic and to do something that no one
(02:35):
else is doing, whether it's pop or rock, or or
or progressive music, or country or or hip hop or
whatever they were. You know, authentic is but the most
important thing for me and most just about every band
I worked with were authentic in their own way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
One of the early bands, bon Jovie. Two weeks into
your gig, you hear a song on a Long Island
radio station that you couldn't get out of your head.
And it was called Runaway by a kid from Sarahville,
New Jersey. It wasn't a band yet, It's just John
bon Jovi shared with us some of the story of
signing bon Jovi.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, I heard the song run Away on the radio
and I thought, damn this said what a great song
it was? And it was. It was a song that
John was able to get on the sampler of music
local music in New York and it was called Johnny Bonjiovi.
(03:31):
But I kept hearing this on this radio station W
A P P. And I said, Wow, this is this?
What is the song? And when it came on, I
just did just inquiries, uh, and I heard from that
he was represented by a lawyer in Philadelphia. I called
Arthur Mann. I got in touch with him and he said,
(03:52):
he has this sis kid. He's he's working at the
power station for a second cousin, Tony brod Jovi. H
And he recorded this song with some session guys. Do
you want to hear more? I've got a demo of
his stuff and I said I'd love to hear it.
And he brought the demo and uh, there were really
good songs. You know, I thought, who the hell is?
(04:14):
So I said I'd love to meet John and uh,
he came over to my office and literally when he
came in, every girl's head turned around.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm sure this.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is like this guy, He's like, he's so good looking
with hair was like, you know, flowing, and boy, the
girls were like wet. I'll just leave it to your man.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yes, Now, what was on that demo, by the way,
was were songs from that first album like Roulette and.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
It was, yeah, songs on that first album.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
She don't know me. I think he is on that
original too, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yep, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, okay, and uh so when
I sat down and I said, John, you know it's
I saw this and we've got talking about what it was,
who I was, and why I was doing. We were
sitting together and I said, so, what is it? Who
is it you want to be? Because John, you know,
(05:12):
it could be he's so good looking, he could be
a pop star or a rock star or something. I said,
what is it and who is it you want to be?
And he looked, he looked me in the eye and said,
I want to be bigger than Elvis. And when he
said that, you could take it two ways or three ways.
(05:32):
He's I'm being pumped or or he's just saying that
because that's what he had to say, because he's in
sing with this guy, you know. But no, this came.
I could tell that this was this was something in
his head that no one was going to stop him
if he's given a chance. And I believed him, and
and he was putting this band together. And I saw
(05:54):
a couple of shows. Richie joined the band, and he
had he had a couple of other guys from Jersey, Yeah, Tico, Alec, Alec,
Dave Brian, you know, Dave Raspell at the time, a
couple of showcases. And I said to my boss, I'm
(06:17):
gonna sign him because I knew that the potential was
that they weren't amazing when they started, but and you
know they they they had all the elements that I
knew that it would it would take to make them
make it work. I introduced them to Doc McGee and
we recorded the first album in the power station.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Did you see a chemistry between John and Richie?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
That was it? That was when he got Richie. That
was you know, you in every band in the rock genre,
there's always you have to have. You know, there's you know,
there's a Joe Perry and Steven Tyler, there's Mick Jagger
and Keith Richards, John bon Jovi and Richie sam Boro.
That was perfect. His choice of Richie being in the
(07:02):
band and their choice was perfect. And they were so
good together. Well, the whole was so good.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I know everybody loves Slippery when Wet, which I do too,
but I say it all the time. New Jersey is
right at the top my favorite bond jo of the album.
It's the songs that are not just the singles, it's
the album tracks that are so good.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And that was that well, so you know that was
New Jersey was I mean that sort of Slippery was
the third album and we I introduced him to the
Desmond child. Okay, you know, and you know, I said, John,
how about writing with someone else? Had it been? Had
it been me? Uh? Saying that to me in another band?
(07:42):
And I said, I was going to hell. But John
is very pragmatic. He said, look, you know, if it works,
it works, and it obviously worked and we went to
Vancouver with to do the album with Bruce Fairman, Bob
Rock and Mike Fraser and surpre was was the pre
when was recorded. We put the record out and it
(08:03):
was gigantic.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Desmond wrote you give love a bad name, Living our Prayer,
Living on a Prayer, which I remember John bon Jovi
saying living on a Prayer. I don't think that's going
to be a hit.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh no, that's not true.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
He didn't say that because I thought he was a
quote that he said, and he's like, boy, was I
was I wrong?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
That's you know, that's history read in a different fashion. However,
he did tell me that when he wrote I was
listening to the demos, he said, this song I think
will be a classic, not not a Living on a
Prayer is one to dead or alive. Yeah, I've got
this song and I'm sure, it's going to be this,
This will be our classic, you know, and he's all wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh no, that's a he's a classic now, he said.
John was never arrogant, but he knew how to play hardball.
You found this out when he asked for a separate deal.
He wanted a separate deal, not a band contract.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
You know. That surprised me actually, you know, because it
was a band. I mean, he was putting his band together,
and when I put my our band together, we shared everything.
But he, you know, he was he was smart. I mean,
you know he was he was a leader, and you
know when I thought about it, you know, it was
him putting the band together. He did run away you know,
(09:19):
with other players. And so in certain respect, I was
surprised that that a band's a band for me, but
you know, it was John's band, but it was a
band still, and so the other guy's got different kinds
of deals. But that when he said that, it was like, well,
let's are you sure that's going to work? John? He said, look,
(09:40):
that's what I want. And you know what, I went
along with
Here's a highlight from a recent episode of booke Don
Rock Giant Steps. My improbable journey from stage lights to
executive heights is the book. We're here with the author
and the man who lived that journey, Derek Shulman. Third
part of the book gets into your new path as
a record executive. In nineteen eighty two, you moved to
New York to become director of rock radio promotions with
PolyGram Band you worked with early on the jam Tears
(00:23):
for Fears Scorpions Kiss. In nineteen eighty three, you moved
out of radio promo and into an R. What's the
main job of an A and R guy? For those
who are not familiar with you, hear that term A
lot A and R guy.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
A and R does it today, It doesn't mean anything
to what it did when I was doing it. Artists
and reptriiz is what actually means. And you are the
person that decides or finds the artist that the record
company will put that marketing and resources, that promotion resources
and sales resources, etc. Behind their recordings. And that's that's
(01:02):
who you were. You were the guy that finds the
talent for the record label. That's what That's what it
was back in the day, and that's what I became.
And I realized that that's that was something that I
was pretty good at. Uh And but you know, good
in the in the fact that I could bring a
(01:24):
lot of my background, all of my background to this
new situation which I had never in a million years
thought I would be in.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But yeah, I don't think any of your peers expected it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Right, absolutely not. I mean it was you know, it
was almost like Luke Skywalker turning into Darth Vader.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yes, right, because now you've got to look for bands.
You're looking for hit songs, hit bands, the look, the sound.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, and you know, you know I did know
about having hits because we had a hits and a
couple of hits with my first ban, But you know, yes,
I had to think about commercial success as well as
well as as well as I'll use this word authenticity, right,
(02:13):
and every band that I signed and I was involved with, uh.
You know, I'll say this, you know, say out loud,
because it's important that you know, people think, oh, there
he's in this great you know, prog band and he
you know, he sold out. No, no, you know, I
sold I looked for anyone no matter who it was,
to be authentic and to do something that no one
(02:35):
else is doing, whether it's pop or rock, or or
or progressive music, or country or or hip hop or
whatever they were. You know, authentic is but the most
important thing for me and most just about every band
I worked with were authentic in their own way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
One of the early bands, bon Jovie. Two weeks into
your gig, you hear a song on a Long Island
radio station that you couldn't get out of your head.
And it was called Runaway by a kid from Sarahville,
New Jersey. It wasn't a band yet, It's just John
bon Jovi shared with us some of the story of
signing bon Jovi.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, I heard the song run Away on the radio
and I thought, damn this said what a great song
it was? And it was. It was a song that
John was able to get on the sampler of music
local music in New York and it was called Johnny Bonjiovi.
(03:31):
But I kept hearing this on this radio station W
A P P. And I said, Wow, this is this?
What is the song? And when it came on, I
just did just inquiries, uh, and I heard from that
he was represented by a lawyer in Philadelphia. I called
Arthur Mann. I got in touch with him and he said,
(03:52):
he has this sis kid. He's he's working at the
power station for a second cousin, Tony brod Jovi. H
And he recorded this song with some session guys. Do
you want to hear more? I've got a demo of
his stuff and I said I'd love to hear it.
And he brought the demo and uh, there were really
good songs. You know, I thought, who the hell is?
(04:14):
So I said I'd love to meet John and uh,
he came over to my office and literally when he
came in, every girl's head turned around.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm sure this.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is like this guy, He's like, he's so good looking
with hair was like, you know, flowing, and boy, the
girls were like wet. I'll just leave it to your man.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yes, Now, what was on that demo, by the way,
was were songs from that first album like Roulette and.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
It was, yeah, songs on that first album.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
She don't know me. I think he is on that
original too, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yep, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, okay, and uh so when
I sat down and I said, John, you know it's
I saw this and we've got talking about what it was,
who I was, and why I was doing. We were
sitting together and I said, so, what is it? Who
is it you want to be? Because John, you know,
(05:12):
it could be he's so good looking, he could be
a pop star or a rock star or something. I said,
what is it and who is it you want to be?
And he looked, he looked me in the eye and said,
I want to be bigger than Elvis. And when he
said that, you could take it two ways or three ways.
(05:32):
He's I'm being pumped or or he's just saying that
because that's what he had to say, because he's in
sing with this guy, you know. But no, this came.
I could tell that this was this was something in
his head that no one was going to stop him
if he's given a chance. And I believed him, and
and he was putting this band together. And I saw
(05:54):
a couple of shows. Richie joined the band, and he
had he had a couple of other guys from Jersey, Yeah, Tico, Alec, Alec,
Dave Brian, you know, Dave Raspell at the time, a
couple of showcases. And I said to my boss, I'm
(06:17):
gonna sign him because I knew that the potential was
that they weren't amazing when they started, but and you
know they they they had all the elements that I
knew that it would it would take to make them
make it work. I introduced them to Doc McGee and
we recorded the first album in the power station.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Did you see a chemistry between John and Richie?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
That was it? That was when he got Richie. That
was you know, you in every band in the rock genre,
there's always you have to have. You know, there's you know,
there's a Joe Perry and Steven Tyler, there's Mick Jagger
and Keith Richards, John bon Jovi and Richie sam Boro.
That was perfect. His choice of Richie being in the
(07:02):
band and their choice was perfect. And they were so
good together. Well, the whole was so good.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I know everybody loves Slippery when Wet, which I do too,
but I say it all the time. New Jersey is
right at the top my favorite bond jo of the album.
It's the songs that are not just the singles, it's
the album tracks that are so good.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And that was that well, so you know that was
New Jersey was I mean that sort of Slippery was
the third album and we I introduced him to the
Desmond child. Okay, you know, and you know, I said, John,
how about writing with someone else? Had it been? Had
it been me? Uh? Saying that to me in another band?
(07:42):
And I said, I was going to hell. But John
is very pragmatic. He said, look, you know, if it works,
it works, and it obviously worked and we went to
Vancouver with to do the album with Bruce Fairman, Bob
Rock and Mike Fraser and surpre was was the pre
when was recorded. We put the record out and it
(08:03):
was gigantic.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Desmond wrote you give love a bad name, Living our Prayer,
Living on a Prayer, which I remember John bon Jovi
saying living on a Prayer. I don't think that's going
to be a hit.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh no, that's not true.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
He didn't say that because I thought he was a
quote that he said, and he's like, boy, was I
was I wrong?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
That's you know, that's history read in a different fashion. However,
he did tell me that when he wrote I was
listening to the demos, he said, this song I think
will be a classic, not not a Living on a
Prayer is one to dead or alive. Yeah, I've got
this song and I'm sure, it's going to be this,
This will be our classic, you know, and he's all wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh no, that's a he's a classic now, he said.
John was never arrogant, but he knew how to play hardball.
You found this out when he asked for a separate deal.
He wanted a separate deal, not a band contract.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
You know. That surprised me actually, you know, because it
was a band. I mean, he was putting his band together,
and when I put my our band together, we shared everything.
But he, you know, he was he was smart. I mean,
you know he was he was a leader, and you
know when I thought about it, you know, it was
him putting the band together. He did run away you know,
(09:19):
with other players. And so in certain respect, I was
surprised that that a band's a band for me, but
you know, it was John's band, but it was a
band still, and so the other guy's got different kinds
of deals. But that when he said that, it was like, well,
let's are you sure that's going to work? John? He said, look,
(09:40):
that's what I want. And you know what, I went
along with
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