Ric Ocasek: The Mysterious Maestro Behind The Cars [Episode 319]

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Millions knew him as the voice and the main songwriter
of the Cars, yet he was a mystery to those
closest to him. We look back at the life and
legendary career of ric Ocassick with author Peter Aaron. That's
next on Booked on Rock.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're totally booked on rock and roll. I mean, I
leave you you're reading. Little Hands says it's time to
rock and roll. I totally booked.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome back to book don Rock. This is the podcast
for those about to read and rock. And we have
a first time guest on the show. He is Peter Aaron.
He's the author of the brand new book Moving in
Stereo ric Ocassick, the driving force of the Cars. Welcome
to the podcast, Peter, Eric.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thank you so much for having me on. You're the
first UH to do an interview in the wake of
the book, and I'm honored that we're starting with Booked
on Rock. O.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Thank you. I'm I'm looking forward to this so much.
Since starting this podcast, it's been I think three years,
I've yet to cover a book on the Cars. So
that's why I'm so so excited to talk about this band.
So this is weird laughing because before we started, I
fell right into the okay sick pronunciation. It is okas sick.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I mean you know when
when I was younger, before I knew, uh, before it
was pointed out to me, Uh, you know, I certainly
did the same thing. Uh. Rick's real last name it
was otcassic O t C s e K, which is
Eastern European name, And he dropped the T after a

(01:39):
certain point. I guess he kind of felt like it
made it less clunky, more more streamlined, if he will, So, yeah,
it's a common, common mistake. And uh yeah, I've seen
interviews where it was said that way to his face
and he he didn't flinch, So it sounds like he
probably was okay with with you.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
But you know, he is a man of mystery. He is,
as you read in the book, an unreadable puzzle to
many and a man of many dualities. So tell us
about the process that you went through to come up
with the story of Rick, because, like he said, if
you want to know about him, listen to the music,
listen to the lyrics, and that's really the best way

(02:21):
to find out about me. But yeah, there's still more
that needs to be told. He's he's he's an interesting
figure and there's not much known about him.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, that's that's that's why I was excited to do
the book because you know, I love I love the Cars.
When they came out, you know, I was totally consumed
with with the first few albums, and you know, I
always wanted to know more about him, but they're just
he was such he covered his tracks really well, so

(02:50):
there wasn't, like you said, there wasn't really any other
substantial books about the Cars or relating to the Cars. Uh.
When when I signed on to do this project, and
that was part of what pulled me along, was just
he seemed like a very interesting, enigmatic artist. I loved
his music. I loved the bands that he worked with.

(03:11):
Outside of the Cars, I knew he was a hip,
deep cat. But beyond that, you know, I knew I
was going to have to do do some digging. And
that's what it was.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Family members, bandmates with the Cars, right.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yes, yeah, well certainly know. I was able to talk
to Greg Hawks and to David Robinson and they were fantastic, wonderful,
very forthcoming people. But I also tracked down Rick's sister,
Maureen no one had ever spoken with her before. I
found the drummer for his very first band, a band

(03:51):
called id Nirvana, Stephen Dodge, who still lives in Columbus, Ohio,
the area where the and was based. And I found
the drummer for the first drummer for Cap and Swing,
which is a band that proceeded directly preceded the Cars.

(04:12):
And we had fuzz By Morris who played guitar in
Richard and the Rabbits, which was the band that directly
preceded Cap and Swing. So you know, we've got a
lot of inside sources during during the process that I
know that nobody else really talked to you before. Well,

(04:33):
Fuzzby Morris is certainly he's a well known musician, and
I think he's been interviewed several times about ricking the Cars.
But there's definitely some figures in there that were pretty
deep in Rix pass. So I think people will enjoy
meeting those people.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, the quotes from his sister, those are really important
because it helps us understand his childhood a little bit
more tell us about Rix's origins. His wife, Paulina Poris Covides,
quoted the book saying he had a tough childhood, and
his relationship with his parents was rough. He got picked
on in school for being tall and thin. This may
explain as you describe his Waldoff personality.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
In later years. It seems like it did. In fact,
that's one thing that Dave Robinson said was he thought
that a lot of well certainly a lot of how
he carried himself on stage was related to maybe still
kind of feeling awkward about his his physique. But you

(05:30):
know that, you know, when you're a kid, it goes
both directions. Anything that anyone can find to pick on
you about, and you act in a way that gets
under your skin. Kids will do that to each other,
and it gets dealt with in different ways by different

(05:54):
different personalities. And Rick, rather than being an outwardly aggressive,
like spoiling for a fight type person, he seemed like
he internalized a lot of that and tried to express
it in ways that were more personal. And I think
that had lot to do with making him an introvert,

(06:15):
I guess you'd say, in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
The majority of his life he lived in the Baltimore area.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Not the majority of his life, the early part of
his life until he was about sixteen, years old. He
grew up in a suburb of Baltimore called Tulsen, and
then when he was sixteen, his father, who worked for NASA,
ended up getting a job in the Cleveland area, so

(06:42):
he moved at a that age, he moved to Cleveland
and being in Ohios where he ended up meeting Benjamin
Orr and you know, things just obviously evolved from there.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
And the story behind how he meets Ben that's also
a tough story to nail down.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, yeah, because because Ben Ben had been in a
band in Cleveland before he and Rick met called the Grasshoppers,
were very locally popular. You know, this is during the
mid sixties, the right in the wake of the British
invasion and kind of the garage band era, and the

(07:22):
Grasshoppers were one of the most popular sort of Beatles
styled bands in Cleveland, and they ended up being the
house band for for a local American bandstand type TV
show and that was on that was on TV around
the time that Rick was in maybe just out of

(07:45):
high school or early college years in Ohio, so it
seems like Rick would have would have seen that. But
then the way they ended up meeting was was Ben
after playing in the Grasshoppers and a couple other bands
wanted to get into the sort of booking management ended

(08:05):
things and was trying to book bands regionally, and he
went to see id Nirvana, Rick's first band play, and
that's kind of how they met. They after after the gig,
Ben came over the house and played the Beatles yesterday
on acoustic guitar, and Rick was blown away and talked
him into joining ed Nirvana right away. That's but he

(08:28):
also recounting that story. I've seen interviews where he says
where you know, acts like he'd never heard Ben sing
or play guitar before, which which you know, which is
is confusing because if he'd seen the Grasshoppers would have
been on local TV in Cleveland, so it seems like

(08:49):
he would have, you know, he would have seen them.
And he's talked about having heard other points, talked about
herving having heard the Grasshoppers uh at other times. So
it's it's sort of it's sort of nebulous, But I
think that that all goes along with the way that
Rick liked things.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Really Yeah, yeah, Ben or originally Ben or is it
Showski or is it Kowski or is it Caski Ben
eleven Letters was.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
His eleven Letters.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, they really hit it off musically. It seems personally
as well. They seem to be pretty close.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, Yeah, and they it's it's it's it's interesting. Uh,
they seem to have be I've talked about them being
extensions of each other. Rick had or Ben had certain
qualities that Rick didn't have, and he Ben was a
perfect way to channel songs and and and sounds that

(09:50):
Rick had in his head that he couldn't do on
his own. So it was it was kind of a
real really a perfect symmetry. I mean Ben, Benjamin or
w isn't really a songwriter. I mean he ended up
making a solo album after you know, kind of toward
the end of the.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Cars or you know, Stay the Night that was his
big hit.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, had a hit, and he was he was write
writing songs with his girlfriend at the time, but you know,
he was more of a yeah, more on the focus
on being a musician and a vocalist. So I think
that you know, they they just there was there was
it was almost like they needed each other.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Booked on rock podcasts. Will be back after this Patience Boys,
All good things to those who wait to hear the
sound of the Cars. It really surprised me to read
that he was a fan of folk. He was a
huge Bob Dylan fan. He loved poetry. That's really interesting.

(10:52):
And in fact, him and ben were in a band
that was somewhat focused, like a like a Crosby Stills,
a Nash type of thing, right they were.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
They were in a band called Milkwood that made one
album for the Paramount label in nineteen seventy to seventy three,
and the album didn't really come out very well from
a production standpoint, and it wasn't really promoted for the

(11:19):
labels by the label very well, so it didn't you know,
it kind of like was sort of instantly in the
cut up and the band broke up not long after that,
but before that, going well back before that, the first
performance that Rick ever did was a solo acoustic performance
at a coffee house in the Bowl and Green area

(11:45):
when he was going to college. And then in Nirvana
the band. The first band that he started was more
of a garage psychedelic band, and Benjaminora joined that band
and it broke up and they became a band called
Leather Would, which was kind of a more of a
folk rock band with you know, rhythm section and everything,

(12:07):
and then Milkwood was basically an acoustic trio with Benjamin
Orr playing electric bass. Another guitarist acoustic guitarist in the
band was in the band named Jim Goodkind.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
It really is interesting the journey that it took to
get to the Cars. I think were they in their
late twenties when the Cars finally hit big in the
late seventies.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Rick was about twenty nine, twenty nine, yeah,
which is you know, or yeah, twenty nine to thirty
you know.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, yeah, Well, as a rock musician, the clock is
ticking right, yeah, coming up on.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Thirties, especially at that time, because it was really you know,
these days, you know, I think audiences are more accepting
of different age performers, and there's a lot of younger
people that discover performers that are older and maybe had
you know, his pre established careers, and that's that's sort
of an accepted thing. But in those days, it was

(13:06):
you know, much more of a quick turnover and much
more focused on on youth and so and you know,
part of that was Rick didn't talk about how old
he was. He would be very evasive.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
And I remember that there was a question that did
he shave off some years in his biography.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Or yeah, yeah, about yeah, five years, and it was
that was something that was after he died, was kind
of uncovered by a New York Times reporter.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
What is the exact year of birth.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
He was born in I was nineteen forty six, Yeah,
mid to late forties. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
There are some fascinating stories in this book. There are
so many, but the one about when he was young,
he gets married, he has a child when he's only I.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Don't know, just out of high school, just on a
high school. Yeah, like basically like you know, last year
year to just after the last year of high school.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, his parents, his parents are thinking, oh cool, he's
going to settle down because he ended up getting I
think a regular nine to five job. Was it at
a bank or something.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
He worked for the Bell telephone company, and yeah, drawing
diagrams for switching systems.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Right, And what was the story about his friend saying
one night they're all hanging out there and the police
here's the police siren and Rick was splits man. He
runs out the back and says, don't tell him I'm here.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, that was the drummer for his first band for
edner Vana, Stephen Dodge, And yeah, he was over his
apartment one night and they were hanging out and the
cops came to the front door, and Rick just, yeah,
he just ran out, so don't tell him where I went.
And never was never explained after that.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
He yah, still doesn't know what it was about. And
he was he was flirting with the ladies. He was
here's again double life and there's the car song double life.
He was living that double life. And he's when he's
at home, he's the perfect family man, but when he's
out there playing the gigs, he's he's living the lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, yeah, there was. There was obviously, you know, these
sort of two sides kind of vying for for supremacy
within you know, his his his his psyche and and uh,
you know, the the artist side was just you know,
could not be could not be suppressed, you know what.
It was the more powerful side. And and you know,

(15:29):
talking about the quote you mentioned at the beginning of
things about the real way to know him was through
the songs, I mean, that was that was one that
was a key thing that hit me with working on
this book, and and and learning about Rick, as much

(15:49):
as I could learn about him, was that it music
was who he was. You know, music was the most
important thing in his life. It's what he was made of.
And so that's why I tried to talk about a
lot of the artists that were influential for him, and
also the ones that he felt strongly enough to help

(16:12):
with as far as producing their music or having them
play with the Cars. You know, it seemed like a
love of music was what he really wanted to transmit
into the world more than anything.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Velvet Underground, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Sure, yeah, yeah, formative influences and Bob Dylan, you know
another artist who technically I mean, you know, Rick had
a very interesting voice and you know, very striking recognizable voice,
and he could harmonize really well with Ben That's that's
something that they took from the Crosby still as a
Nash style music of Milkwood into the Cars, and you

(16:51):
certainly hear that on the first album a lot, especially.
But you know, like Bob Dylan, Rick was you know,
he wasn't He didn't have a Benjamin or type voice.
He didn't have this sort of like classically ah, you know,
perfect stunning voice.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
But smoky voice like you describe it in the book.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Right, yeah, and and and you know, that sort of
crooner type type quality. But you know, like Bob Dylan,
he was able to make it work within the greater
framework work of what he did, and not every That's
something that not every artist understands how to do.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
You mentioned he met up with Bob Dylan years later
and they recorded a song together.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
That I've never as far as I know, they didn't
record a song together, but they worked on at least
one song together. They got to know each other. That's
something that Rick talked about in an interview for Interview magazine,
but not too many not too many details beyond that,
and it doesn't seem like it's like maybe Rick realized

(18:02):
not to kind of push it and lean on on
Bob as to take it further than what they did,
you know, respecting Bob as Bob Dylan as an artist,
and just being grateful for the experience of doing that
as a fan too.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
So you talk about how serious he is about music,
which is surprising to read that he did give up
on music at one point. He moved back to Cleveland. Actually,
Rick and Ben moved back to Cleveland. So but if
you could give the cliff notes version of how we
get to the cars.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Rick's second wife was a woman from Massachusetts, from Western Massachusetts.
And Rick and Ben had had a pretty good go
with it with the band Leatherwood. Came to the New
York area, moved up to State New York for a
little bit. Nothing happened with that band that it broke
up and they went back to Michigan, which is where

(18:59):
they had been just before. They went to from Ohio
to Michigan and Rick ended up meeting this woman. They
got married. They moved to the Boston area to be
a little bit closer to her family, and they were
living to Cambridge, which was a really good music scene,
especially for folk music. And Rick had followed that and

(19:20):
he started playing with guitarist Jim Goodkind and got Ben
to come out and they forn in Milkwood. That lasted
for a couple years, they made an album. They broke up,
and then Rick started another band with Ben and some

(19:43):
other musicians. Fusby Morris, guitar player was in it called
Richard and the Rabbits, and their name was suggested by
Jonathan Richmond, whose band The Modern Lovers. Rick was a
huge fan of and then that band broke up and
Rick and Ben started doing an acoustic duo. Well Ben

(20:05):
was still playing bass, and they called it olkassikan Ore.
So that was when he started using the oca oca
se k spelling. And then that led to Cap and
Swing and they had a showcase gig at Max's Kansas
City and it didn't go well. Part of the thing,

(20:28):
part of what they got out of the gig out
of that doing that gig that didn't go well, is
they got some constructive criticism and they made some changes
and applied that constructive criticism to become the Cars.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
And Rick his vocal style changes around that time of
Cap and Swing into the style that we know of.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, it was interesting because this was during their early
days of punk and slash, a new wave and that
style of singing kind of technically, you say, non virtuoso
style of singing work with that music. You had people
at David Byrne, and you had from Talking Heads and

(21:09):
Mark Mothersbaugh from Devo and David Thomas from Perubu and
Tom Verland from television the sort of quirky style of singing.
And Rick had been his first influence even before Bob
Dylan was Buddy Holly that.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
I'm so glad you mentioned that. Yeah, it totally skipped
my mind. And then I'm now thinking about his vocal style.
Now I hear the Buddy Holly influence in his vocals.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, yeah, it was. And some of that was you know,
Roxy music had had some of that sort of space
age fifties kind of synthesis going on in their music,
and you know, Rick would definitely been, you know, influenced
by them. They were kind of mid seventies is when
they were at their height, and so you know, he

(21:55):
was able to kind of, you know, do this sort
of space age rockabilly kind of sound, reached back to
one of his favorite influences, and and uh sing in
a way that was unique, that worked for the style
of music and was perfect. I mean you think about, like,
you know, a song like My best Friend's Girl. I mean,

(22:16):
somebody you know singing in a real kind of emotive style,
you know, would have would have ruined that song, you know,
but there's sort of a little bit that that a
little bit of childlike vulnerability in the way in that
style of singing, that kind of fifties nostalgic innocence of

(22:40):
of the Buddy Holly kind of earnest style. And you
know this guy talking about singing about his his uh,
you know his best friend's girlfriend used to be his.
And there's obviously a little bit of like anst and
pain in that. And for someone to sing that in
a real kind of over the top like American idol,

(23:01):
like overly confident kind of way, would you know it
would have killed that song Like dead in the water.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Rock podcasts. We'll be back after this, I.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Mean out, come out wherever you are.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Well. I ask you about max Aan Sartori. I've read
this story for many, many years, but the book really
gets into it in detail, and you get some stuff
in there that I didn't know about. You write quote
to say that the then twenty three year old West
Coast transplant max An Sartori was one of the most
important and impactful figures connected to Rick's musical career would
not be an overstatement. This takes us back to a

(23:40):
time when FM rock radio still had that ability to
break a band. But she was more than just that.
She's more than just playing this band's music. She is
watching them intently, giving them advice, giving her input being
honest about what she's seeing with a band and telling Rick, look,
I think you really need to change your life, book,
your image, things like that. So tell us about her

(24:04):
how she comes into the story when the first time
she finds out about them.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, Max ansatri incredibly popular, not just not just to
the car story, but to just the history of Boston
rock and roll. She was on WBCN, which was at
the time was kind of an upstart, sort of a
hippie FM station. What it was called progressive music at
the time, which was basically rock that was, you know,

(24:33):
not cloying attempting to have top forty AM radio hit
type music. You know, bands could stretch out and play
longer songs and play play music that had a deeper
feeling to it. And she was very well informed and
very very much ahead of the curve for what was
cool up there. I mean, Dave Robinson in our interview

(24:54):
for the book like You talk at length about how
she was so cool. She always knew all the coolest
bands before anybody else did and turned them on just
to so much music. Rick in particular. She became like
a mentor to Rick, and he listened obsessively to her. Show,
which was on in the afternoon prime drive time on

(25:17):
WBCN and WBCN was sponsored a street fair in you know,
Newberry Street or Back Bay area, and one of the
bands that got on the bill was Captain Swing. And
Rick had published a chap book of poetry and went

(25:38):
up to meet her and say he was a fan
and gave her this signed book of poetry and that
led to him giving her tapes of Captain Swing, and
she played some of the stuff on the show. You
know it. It did it okay as far as audience reception,
but you know, you know, nothing amazing. But they became

(26:00):
closer friends, and she would play him all kinds of
new music that became influential to him. And then after
they had this kind of ill fated showcase gig at
Max's Kansas City in nineteen seventy six, she you know,
helped kind of push him into trying some different ideas

(26:21):
and some moves that clicked and became the Cars. And
then when she started playing the car's demos on early
demos of My Best Friend's Girl and Just What I
Needed on WBCN, the radio went nuts, like they were
the most became most requested songs on the station, and

(26:44):
those songs were getting reported in the trade journals, and
so these industry record major label record industry people would
would see the cars just what I needed. And instead
of where the in the chart where there would be
the name of the label that the recording was on,
it would just say tape. And so that caught the

(27:08):
eye of some of these labels. And it just so
happened that the sister of of some of from a
lecture was was going to Harvard and the Cars were
would play at dances at at Harvard frequently, and she
talked her brother into coming up to see the band,

(27:30):
and and a couple other labels were snooping around and
that's and that's how they got signed.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
What a cool story. That's old school rock and roll
right there. Yeah, And the first album is like, Oh,
by the way, the Cars. The name of the Cars,
I think was David's idea, was just no no fancy
story behind it, just like the car. Yeah, he said.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
He said, you know, we just we made a list
of names, and that was one of the names on it.
He couldn't remember any of the other any of the
other names that were on the list, but it was
just I guess it was just easy like that. It
sort of had connotations of fast movement and sleekness, and

(28:11):
uh Rick liked Rick was Another big influence of his
was Andy Warhol and pop art. And I think that
the idea that it was sort of a very generic
name and everyone knows what a car is, I think
it it appealed to him in that way that it
was sort of like ironically generic, the way Campbell's soup

(28:34):
can is right.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
And I forget was Max and the one that said,
you guys should change the band name or was it
the band who decided what's changed the name? David wasn't
there right with Captain Swing right away?

Speaker 2 (28:46):
No, he wasn't he he? I think, yeah, yeah, and
and yeah yeah, I mean she you know, I think
they felt that Captain Swing had such a you know,
there would have become toxic because you know, this this
this showcase gig in New York. You know, it went

(29:09):
went so poorly that among labels that they figured that
they should start anew and you come up with some
and and also you know, cap and Swinging was sort
of you know, it's kind of was sort of a
glam rock name. It was sort of like, uh, you know,
a ziggy starred Ust type figure. I think that Rick
had in his head when when he came up with

(29:30):
the name, and he had there was a logo with
a sort of a Superman type character and the cars,
you know, kind of dead simple, sort of fit with
the garage band, kind of punk ethos that was on
the cutting edge at that time.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Book on Rock podcast will be back after this. Look,
we're going to take a call. The first album, it's
like a greatest hits album. The guys in the band
have said it.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, they said it when when it came out, they
were calling, you know right away.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
I remember my older brother mentioning that too, so he
must have read the band say that it really is
good times roll my best Friend's Girl, just what I needed.
Then you got the album tracks, which are so great too.
I'm in Touch with Your World, Don't You Stop? That
finishes side one, side to is Your Life Got Tonight?
Bye by Love Moving in stereo into all mixed up? Yeah,

(30:28):
yeah yeah. Elliet Elliot Easton deathly ill these I love
this little minutia that the stories of recording Elliot Easton,
who's a very underrated guitarist by the way oh yeah,
deathly ill with food poisoning while laying down his guitar
solos for that album amazing. That tells you how great
he is.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what an incredible just I mean, you
know he's someone that I mean, you know, Time just
you know, the Car is one of those bands that
get one of those bands where Time is just sort
of embellishing how how how great they were and and
and you know, in a parallel path to that, also

(31:09):
how incredible Eliot Easton is. Yeah, Candy, oh god. And
also that you know that segue of moving in stereo
uh uh into all all mixed up and yeah yeah,
and and you know that also that made it like

(31:29):
if you were a DJ, you couldn't pick the needle up,
you know, one song and it just naturally flows right
into another, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
And they showed they can rock. Don't just stop as
a rocker.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's yeah to me, that's I say,
that's the punk, that's the real punker on that album.
That's like yeah, yeah, And they had a lot of
great ones that were didn't make it onto the Hotel. Queenie.
Great song, I've never heard that. Oh it's great it's
a total punker. I mean it would have been it
would have fit well with in like a set list
by like the Damned or something. It's very Stooge's kind

(32:03):
of sounding.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Is that on deluxe edition? Is it on?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah? There's a demo of it on the deluxe and
there's also on the live album. There's a live triple
live album that was recorded at the Agora Ballroom in
Cleveland and seventy eight that it came out as a
record store day thing on vinyl. I don't know if
it's still in print on CD or but is it

(32:28):
version of it on there? That's great?

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, check it out.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Roy Thomas Baker, we got to talk about him, and
he produced the album. Known for his work with Queen.
The things he does on this album, let's just focus
in on the vocal harmonies. You mentioned the harmonies before.
Already Rick and Ben had a great accommodation there vocally
with harmonies. But what he does here Good Times Role
has fifty voices in one part.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Rick was at first was
kind of like whoa, you know, that's sort of overdoing it.
And then you know, he sat with the tape for
a little bit over was you know, got you know,
got to like it, but yeah, yeah, and and it's
interesting because the way it's very extreme. I mean Roy

(33:18):
Thomas Baker. A lot of stuff he did was very extreme.
There's a lot so much space in what he did.
Like you hear like Queen like okay, death on two legs. Okay.
That solo that comes in on that is like all
the way over here. It's panned all the way over here,
and then the vocals are like these mass vocals are

(33:38):
all the way over on this side. It's like it
shouldn't work, but it's like with with with Good Times Role,
it's just like you know, Rick's lead vocal toward one side,
and then the Good Times Roll part in the chorus.
Those mass voices only come in for that one line.
When it happens, it's very disjointed. It's not it's not

(34:02):
it's not smooth, but somehow it works and it doesn't
It doesn't throw you off at all. It draws you in.
And that's uh, you know, you know who could come
up with ideas like that Back then, especially.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
I didn't realize Good Times Roll. It's like a sarcastic
thing that Rick was yeah. Yeah. People thought, yeah, let's
look at good times rolling man, let's party.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah. Yeah, well he was. He was good with that.
I mean, like, yeah, it's just I mean, at that
point he had been in a lot of bands that
hadn't gone anywhere, and it had really been slugging it out,
and you know, he was on food stamps and and
and all this and and and uh you know, kind
of eating dirt and you know, it's sort of sarcastic.

(34:51):
But the way it was received by most people who
weren't really thinking about it were just like, yeah, party
it up, you know, right, I mean, like best friend's girl.
I mean there's that whole thing of like, you know,
this guy talking about his best friend's girl and how
great she is, and then at the end he sort
of drops this bomb of like, well she used to

(35:12):
be mine, right, you know, just like yeah, I mean,
it's it's it's deceptively complex.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
When I was nineteen years old, that we had in
a local radio FM rock station in New Haven had
an amateur hour and so they invite people to come
on and play whatever they wanted for an hour, and
I was so excited about it, and my very first
song was let the good Times roll. So here I
was misunderstanding as well, like let's let the roll.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's genius. That's genius, you know, right,
you know it just like I mean, and you know
that's and the influence of bubblegum rock very kind of
a hidden influence. I mean, Ramones saw themselves or Johnny
Ramono from referred to the Ramones as being twisted bubble gum.
I mean there's you know, bubble gum music very simplistic, uh,

(36:04):
you know, supposedly made for like preteens back in the
late sixties early seventies. Uh, but that simple simplism was
something that you know was uh integral to early punk rock,
and it was sort of a lot of bands kind
of reappropriated that music and you know, took it in

(36:28):
kind of a direction that maybe bubble gum fans wouldn't
have anticipated. And that opening rip from Yummy Yummy, Yummy
Young I Love my tummy dun d d that's that's
that that was you know, co opted for just where
I needed, you know, And I think that's one thing

(36:50):
he learned was a way of like sneaking in these
sort of double entendre you know type type things like
you know, talking about good times roll like that, or
certainly later with a song like Tonight she comes, I mean,
come on, you.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Know, oh my god, I love that song.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
I mean, but it's like I mean, like you know,
he's snuck that one in sure, you know, I mean
things like things like that, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
The beginning. I'd love the beginning of just what I needed.
I'm always trying to guess when he's gonna come in
with a double snare hit. He's hitting the snare once,
hitting the snare once, when's he gonna hit to it?
And then the double bass boo dooo booo.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah. Yeah, and it keeps it keeps you on edge.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
It keeps you on the edge.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, it makes you pay attention.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah. The album peaked at number eighteen on Billboard in
March of seventy nine, spent one hundred and thirty nine
weeks on the chart. It has since gone six times
platinum here in the US. Cars Arrive in a Big
way Now. They follow with the number three Candyo in
nineteen seventy nine, four times platinum, the number five million
selling Panoram in nineteen eighty. That album was a little

(37:57):
bit of a slip there. Commercially, Shake it Up for
nineteen eighty one went double platinum, peaking at number nine.
Now the hit singles during this period, it's staggering, from
the first album right up to Shake it Up. Just
what I needed. My best friend's girl, good times role,
Let's go, It's all I can do. One of my favorites,
touch and Go. Another great one the number four shake

(38:18):
it Up. Since You're gone all in or very close
to top forty with Shake it Up top ten. Along
the way, however, Rick was increasingly opening up to producing.
When did that side career start for him? And what
do you think drew him to that?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Well? I think that he really liked the artful side
of putting together music on top of just writing songs,
and you know, he listened so studiously to records when
he was, you know, kind of forming his own musical outlook,

(38:55):
and I think it was just a natural extension of that.
I think it was a way, first of all, if
it was a band that he liked that he could
work with, then he was sort of putting his stamp
on that band and saying that this is good stuff,
and I feel strong enough that I want to be involved,

(39:16):
So that's an expression in itself, but also shaping the
sounds of those albums. It's it's another it's another palette,
it's another another mode of expression. And obviously felt strongly
about music and took it seriously. So I think he
wanted to try and put as much good and good
sounding music as he as he could out there. And

(39:38):
and also, you know, being a very successful pop artist,
he got to work with artists that were more experimental
and very much on the other side of the spectrum
from pop music, and I think that was very rewarding.
And you know he would he would take in for

(40:00):
from that music and Swiley work it into the more
commercial music that the Cars did.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Booked on rock Podcasts, We'll be back after this.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
During our brief indormission, Let's take a flying trip from
Milanda Fantasy to everyday life.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
You finished chapter twenty seven by writing about where the
band was at nineteen eighty two. You say, quote, from
the outside, things seemed more than perfect. Rick's band was
riding high and his career as a producer had started
to take off. But inside the Cars camp problems were brewing.
Talk about where the cracks within the band begin is
this with a management change.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
It was a little bit after the management had changed.
They ended up signing with a big West Coast manager
who had worked with Jackson Brown and some Jonny Mitchell,

(41:01):
and you know, it kind of seemed like that he
saw Rick as being as as the Cars is being.
Since Rick was writing pretty much all writing all the
songs and singing, uh most of them even then, and

(41:22):
you know, involved with the sound, I started to see
that the Cars were a situation of Rick and these
guys that play with him, you know, and that kind
of started getting pushed a little bit. And I think
that that, you know, caused cause some of the divisions.

(41:43):
And Rick was getting more interested in working in the
studio and being a producer and didn't want to tour
as much. And there's a combination of those things that
really started to kind of start a wedge going.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
In moving in stereo Rico. The Driving Force of the
Cars is the book. Our guest is the author, Peter Aaron.
What they achieved with the nineteen eighty four is Heartbeat City.
You would think everything is going more than fine, number
three album, four times platinum, huge hit singles, magic Drive.
You might think there was a decision by Rick and

(42:19):
the band had change, not just where they recorded this album,
but who would produce it. Talk about the location change
and what led to Mutt Lang producing Heartbeat City.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Well, I think he just wanted to try something different,
and also Roy Thomas. You know, they'd made four albums
with Roy Thomas Baker at that point. I think they
wanted to try something different. I think Roy Thomas Baker
was also working on another project around the time they
wanted to record, and Mutt Lang had produced some very successful,

(42:54):
commercially successful records. He produced def LAPPERD, he produced a
ac DC back in Black, and he was also I
mean def Leppard that the stuff that he produced by
them was certainly you know, I wouldn't. I mean, they
had guitars in the band, but those weren't really guitar records.
Ac DC was guitarist to the four kind of thing.

(43:17):
And also I think that you know, I think, well,
I think that you know, Rick just wanted to try
something that was maybe more you know, we're gonna have
pop hits, Let's try and have something that that competes
with you know, that that into the charts and and
that that demographic.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
And yeah, Mutt was the guy.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, and I think you know, just Rick liked to
like to challenge himself.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Also, I love the album. I'm curious though, what you
think of how it stood up over time as opposed
to that first album. I feel like I still love
the first album. I listened to it all other Heartbeat City,
I've listened to it all the time. But you can
hear a little bit some dated production techniques as opposed
to that first one. Is more like you listen to
it and it doesn't sound of a time.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Yeah, No, I agree, I think you you really nailed it.
I mean that the first one just has like a
classic sound. It's got a good balance of uh, cleanier
shinier elements, and I think Heartbeat City kind of leans
more towards the cleaning cleaner, shinier elements and doesn't have

(44:26):
as much of the edgy elements in it.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
One of the things before we move on and get
into the breakup of the cars, musically, the band is
underrated and and I have a friend who's a drummer
and he loves that one song touch and go, oh yeah,
what is it that they are doing there that is
so unique?

Speaker 2 (44:45):
The time? This signature changes in a very a very
unnatural way.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
The synths and the drums are not right.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah, the synth doing the sort of stabby parts, and
the drums are doing like a kind of like it's
almost like impressionistic. It feels like kind of like echoing
it with a little bit of a lag or something. Yeah,
but it's you know, somehow it it's like it feels
like it's kind of fall apart or something, or fall

(45:19):
fall down the stairs or something. And then and then
it kicks in with that sort of like uplifting kind of.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Like how do you describe that?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Right? Yeah, A little bit a little bit of rockabilly
kind of gallop. It's a little bit of a like
uh Mystery Train, you know, Johnny Burnett trio kind of
or or like uh very Buddy Holly Peggy Sue kind

(45:52):
of drum pattern. It goes into obviously Rick reaching back
to that.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
You know, it really is probably the most interesting song
to listen to of the Cars catalog musically.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that album. I think that album
it is really come into its own as being like
one of their best albums. And to a lot of
say this, a lot of people say it's the Cars, Devo.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Album talking Panorama Panorama.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Y yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know it's very ave,
aren't kind of proto industrial? Uh? You know you hear
like maybe h David Bowie Heroes album a little bit
in there and little like you know, obviously some craftwork
and craft rock stuff. Yeah, you know, bands like NOI, Harmonia,

(46:43):
you know, certainly Suicide and you know Suicide and Devo.
Uh and you know, not a lot of what led
us to described the songs as being inside out songs
sounding like inside out music when Rick was teaching him
the songs. Yeah, yeah, but there's no there's no obvious
I mean, Touch and Go has that kind of hummable

(47:05):
chorus part, but there's no obvious like huge choruses or
sing along parts, you know, definitely not the masked vocals
of the first album. It's interesting. I mean those first
three albums are those are definitely my favorite, and and
the first one is just totally flawless. I think I

(47:25):
come back to Candy Oh as being my fat Yeah. Yeah,
I think it's it's just GARAGEI enough and and Double
Life is that might be my favorite song.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, there's there's a dark aspect of some of those
songs too.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, dangerous type, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, absolutely. There's a phone call that would change Rick's life.
The call is with actor Timothy Hutton.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, what happened. David Geffen had been in a party
with UH with Timothy Hutton and played him eight he
had a ape of because you know, David Geffen was
associated with Asylum and Electro Asylum were merged and everything
for a little bit and played him advanced tape of

(48:12):
of Heartbeat City and Timothy Hutton said, I really like
that song drive and you know, Geff and got worked
back to UH to Rick and Rick called the next
day and said, how would you like to do a video? Yeah,

(48:32):
and and then that's how Rick ends up Paulina is
you know hard to be in the video? Yep in
the video, and that's how they meet and just you
know this, the fuse was lit. And she had talked
about this, you know, this is quoting her book, but
she had seen a video for a song from rick

(48:57):
solo album for solo album before and you know, on
MTV and had become infatuated with him. And then goes
to you know, she was top paid model, had recently
moved to New York and uh, you know was was,
you know, answered an ad for work to be in

(49:20):
a music video for and Lo and behold, Like he
walks in the room.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
And I really love this about Paul. I was in
the mall recently and I saw this a display of her.
She's on an advertisement for jewelry or perfum or something
like that. Still beautiful, but yeah, nothing fake. She's got
the grays there, She's not trying to She's got the
wrinkles from getting older. And guess what, still stunning. Oh yeah,

(49:48):
no need for the plastic surgery and all this stuff, right,
And I love that. It just props to her for that. Yeah,
I've always wondered what happened between Heartbeat City and the
next album, which is not Canady Seven's Door to Door,
which was a commercial disappointment number twenty six on the charts,
went gold but no hit single Cars Are No More.
You're right that the plan was to quote create something

(50:10):
that was closer to the sound of their garage band beginnings.
Instead it would be the sound of a group falling apart.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
What happened, Well, they were you know, all not really
talking each other, especially animosity was kind of you know,
had really had really blown up between between Rick and Ben.
I mean they ended up. When they toured on that album,
Ben rode in his own vehicle, separately from everybody else,

(50:41):
and you know, he's from what I understand, Ben was
really resentful of He had approached Rick about writing some
songs with his girlfriend for the Cars, and Rick had
you know, said no, that's not the cars, you know,

(51:01):
and they'd had a falling out, and Ben didn't take
it very well. So they you know, a lot of
times they weren't all in the studio at the same time.
They were just come in and record their parts. And
there's there's two songs on that album that were songs
that they had were in their repertoire during the punk

(51:21):
era that you know, seventy six seventy seven era, songs
that were already written and they went back to fill
out the album. They went back to record those songs,
take what you Want and Tata Wayaweya, which is a
great song.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
It's a solid album.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah, I think there's some great I mean, the title
track is that's a total what a fierce rocker. I mean,
that's like a hardcore song.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Sure. Yeah, it just didn't have a huge hit single
on it.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
No, no, I mean, but you know, there's definitely some
some great tracks on it.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Podcasts will be back after this.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Never ever, ever, under any circumstances, say I'll be right back,
because you won't be back. I'm getting out of the
berrial on one. Yes, sure, I'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Find the bookdown Rock website at booked on Rock dot com.
There you can find all the back episodes of the show,
the latest episode in video and audio, links to all
of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
and x. Also check out the Booked on Rock blog.
Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest

(52:37):
hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
the Booked on Rock online store. Pick up some Booked
on Rock merch. It's all at booked on Rock dot com.
Elliot Eason talks about when Rick told him he was quitting,
and this is in the book. Their mixing recordings for
a radio program, and Rick is just saying, you know,
I think I'm gonna leave the group. Yeah, yeah, I said,

(52:57):
all the blood went to my feet.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Well yeah, yeah, they were an Electric lady and they were, yeah,
mixing some early live you know, recordings for a live album,
and Rick just kind of dropped the bomb like that.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
You know, he was disappointed that Rick was becoming, as
he just described it, self absorbed, that he felt like
he didn't want to rely on the band. He he
felt like he wasn't getting the credit he so deserved
because this idea was that he needed the band around
him to succeed. And that made him resentful. But that's

(53:36):
the management, that's the manager getting into his ear.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
I think, right, yeah, well you know, who knows, we
weren't there, you know, and those things are always very complicated.
I mean I would think like probably both of those
things entered into things, but probably not the only things
that entered into things too, you know, but certainly wouldn't

(53:59):
have been helpful in terms of, like, you know, smoothing
things out. But you know, also it's like, yeah, they
did have a little bit of a break a couple
of years between Shake It Up and Heartbeat City, but

(54:20):
you know, there's always still work to be done. I
Mean a lot of times with with bands, it's it's
you know, it comes down to if and the clash
I mean, Joe Strummer said this, if we had just
had a break in there at some point, you know,
we would have you know, I think we would have
been able to get through our you know.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Yeah, but it's hard because when you're a successful band,
you're being pushed to go out there and get on
the road, and then as soon as you're done, record
an album and you go around around around.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Yep, exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
But he had Rick had. The first two solo albums
were successful. He had in nineteen eighty two, beat It Tude.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah, yeah, it's really good, good, good album.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Top thirty album. This Side of Paradise in nineteen eighty
six was still technically while I believe he's still with
the Cars, that's the number thirty one album. But I
remember in ninety one when Fireball Zone came out, and
I remember it was almost like for me these classic
rock artists. I became such a fan that I was
almost rooting for them, like you're rooting for a team.
And so I remember, I remember I listened to the

(55:23):
first single from that album and I was really hoping.
I really wanted to see because he had been out
of the spotlight for a while and I was I
was hoping that it would it would hit and it
just didn't. Yeah, he was he was doing He did
Weezer around ninety three, ninety four or maybe further out.
When did he When did he start working with them?

Speaker 2 (55:44):
I think you started working with them ninety two and
then you know, ninety as a producer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Those fifteen years he's doing a little bit of solo recording,
but he's doing a lot of producing. Yeah, no doubt
did he do No.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Did no doubt. I mean before then, but going farther back,
I mean, he did well. His first production job and
the one that gets some gets forgotten about is he
produced a single by Boston band called third Rail. They
were an early punk band that used to they played
the rat a lot. They're very Veled Underground influenced, So,

(56:20):
you know, Veled Underground were, you know, one of his
three greatest influences. He always says that the first Velt
Underground album is he thinks thought was the best, you know,
best album, his favorite album. So he produced a single
by third Rail which came out in nineteen seventy eight,
and then he worked with the band from New York

(56:40):
called the Fast, early early punk band from New York
sort of. They kind of started out at the glam
Era and then and then you know, it was you know,
transitioned into punk. Uh. And then well, I'll talk about
in the in the book how that the singer Paul

(57:04):
Zone when they were working with Rick in the studio.
Rick had a notebook he was looking at and it
turned out it was all these notes he had taken
working alongside Roy Thomas Baker when The Cars were making
the first album. So he was referring to all these
notes about how to place microphones and all this. Yeah,

(57:25):
and then the next band he worked with after that
was Suicide, producing their second album, which that was his
big his first, you know, big known production job. But
he produced the Bad Brains in nineteen eighty two and
then the album Rock for Light. He produced an EP

(57:46):
by them, and then the album Rock for Light which
came out in eighty three. He produced Romeo Void Never
Say Never. So he had a few things under his
belt before before We and No Doubt and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Ben Or meanwhile, he's struggling after the Car's breakup. Yeah,
what's he doing during those years after the Cars?

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Well, he made that one album, The Lace, which came
out in nineteen eighty five, had that. Yeah, the hit
song stay the Night is basically songs that he wrote
with his girlfriend at the time I think was Diane
gray Page I believe was her name, but you know,

(58:32):
had the hit and I guess he's touring on on
it here and there, but he didn't make any other
records after that.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
You know, it hit him hard. The breakup.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
It seemed like it did. Yeah. I mean it's almost
like I think and Jim Goodkind from Milkwood has said
this about you know. I mean, other people said how
Ben was just sort of like a go with the flow,
sort of happy, go lucky guy. But it seemed like
he attached himself to Rick, like that he needed Rick

(59:06):
more than Rick needed him. Just I think he was
just one of those artists who was a fantastic player,
uh and singer you could play any instrument, uh, but
not really a songwriter, you know. And and you know

(59:31):
I think that uh, I mean, yeah, Rick, Rick did
some some cool solo stuff, you know, the beatitude I
think was the height of his solo records. But this
is it's interesting as a situation is to me. It
reminds me of the band with within without Robbie Robertson.

(59:53):
I mean, I think that those guys are great players,
but they weren't songwriters. I mean, Richardmanuel wrote a couple
of one couple songs and then he moved away from
songwriting and Robbie Robinson on his own, he made music,
but I don't think it was as anywhere near as

(01:00:13):
interesting as what he did with the band. And I
think I think Rick needed the cars, and the cars
needed Rick.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
And Ben was self medicating during that period, drinking.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
From yeah from one airstand like, yeah, Rick, did you
know he didn't he did? You know? Obviously he I
think he's real when he wasn't with the cars, what
he was doing that the best. I mean, yeah, he
made some He definitely made some interesting solo stuff, but
his production for other artists I think was that had

(01:00:49):
taken precedent, and I think he was comparatively doing better
in that realm, you know, as as an.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Artist, and that Rick and Ben aren't talking until Rick
finds out that Ben's health is failing and you better
talk to him, and you better do this otherwise it's
too late.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Right yeah, Yeah, And I don't know if you've watched
that that interview that was done right before.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
You know, yes, certainly, certainly very hard to watch, very
hard to watch, Ben, great great interview and and you know,
one of the things that really came across to me
watching that interview is that I think everybody was came
across like how how they were all good guys.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Man, you know really so yeah, very very much so. Yeah,
and he was so thin and frail, Ben Or but
he was there. He made it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
He was there. Yeah. And from what I understand, you
know that the two of them were able to get
together and you know, kind of mended the fence. I
guess as much as you can, you know, situation at
that point. But you know, it's certainly it's certainly good

(01:02:04):
that that it happened. And and the interview is as
hard it is to watch Ben, it's it's it's a great,
great interview. And there's some some very funny moments. Yeah,
you know memories.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
That was for an anniversary video, wasn't it. It was
to mark the anniversary of I like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
That well, I keep aligned with anything, but it was
it was an extra on a DVD of the car's
appearance on a nineteen seventy eight German music TV show
called Music Loden.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Okay, this is in two thousand, I think, wasn't it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Yeah? But the but the set, it's a it's a
nineteen seventy eight TV appearance by the Cars on this
German show and it's great. I mean, yeah, they're they're
really at their at their height, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
And Ben passed away shortly after that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Yeah, like I want to say, like just a couple
of months later.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Yeah, wow, October third, two thousand. It says here, Yeah,
well I wish he could have been part of that
album in twenty eleven. That was a move like this, yeah,
which which shocked Elliott and Greg. They went out as
the Car well they called it The New Cars with
Todd Runggren on vocals two thousand and five. There was
actually an attempt to get Rick on board for this,

(01:03:20):
but he didn't want anything to do with it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
No, he didn't want to I think, you know, I
mean from what David says, you know that like lawyers
got in, management got involved and sort of like didn't
didn't you know, make it, didn't lay out the offer
in the right way or.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Yeah, it didn't help any it didn't help.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Yeah, Yeah, but yeah, I mean, you know, Rick was
obviously he was doing well as a producer at that point,
and he was more focused on that. So I think
that that had part part of the reason, and also
maybe didn't have any new material. You know, he ended
up writing the songs that became move like This later on,

(01:04:08):
and when he was writing those songs, it sort of
hit him it maybe be good to do it with
with the guys.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yeah, the guys. Was a little surprised to hear that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah, Elliott gets the call out of nowhere. Hey, what
do you think if you want to do this? Sure?

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Yeah, And that's a great record.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Thank you. I was gonna ask you about that. It
really is an outstanding record.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Yeah, Blue Tip is right up there with one of
the Yeah, one of their best songs, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Yeah, there's there's quite a few songs on there that
maybe some fans haven't really checked out because it didn't
do all that well as far as getting near play
on the radio. Because by that time, now we're a
lot of these heritage classic rock stations were more interested
in what these bands did in the past.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Yeah, I mean, it's I recommend that album if you.
You know, if you had any qualms about it, you
will not be disappointed. And if you like that kind
of cars, like new wave, you know, sounds like that,
it's it's it's great. I think it's I don't. I
think it's it's one of their best albums. I think,

(01:05:14):
you know, maybe I don't know, maybe since it I mean,
it might even after Panorama, it might be my next favorite.
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Wow, how about that? Yeah, Blue Tip, too late, too soon,
sad song, sad song. Yeah, take another look as another one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
I love m It's solid. I mean, if you're a.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Fan of the cars, you will not be disappointed.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Yeah, I mean it's and it's a good one. I
mean obviously, if Bennett been there, who knows, you know
how you know, it would have been you know, would
have been great. But you know, but it's still a
good a really good note to go out on, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
And they went out on the road. But that was
limits did and we would find out eventually that's because
Rick was not doing well right. Yeah, what was the
cause of death?

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Hypertensive and our ethereosclerotic cardiovascular disease also known as ethereal sclerosis. Yeah,
an accumulation of plaque in the arteries that often weakens
the heart's muscle and pulmonary emphysima was listed as a
contributing factor. So the smoking, you know he had, he

(01:06:28):
had quit I think like fourteen years before he died,
but he'd smoked for a long time before he quit,
so it didn't help.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Yeah, and then lo and behold again with the mystery
that Rick Ocassick was. He's living with Paulina, but they
are separated. She's seeing other people, but he's he's still there.
They're living together, and she's the one who finds him.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
She he went to bed and she came in in
the morning to bring him coffee and check on him.
And that's what you found him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
On rock Podcasts. We'll be back after this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Oh, here's life videy look the Way to the Future,
to a horizon, neverre's mind on where you are?

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
share on social media and let people know about Booked
on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, Run Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,

(01:07:40):
tune In, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show, and you do have a chapter on
his separation with Paula. Just after Rick spoke at the
O was Rock Hall of Fame induction, she posted on

(01:08:02):
Facebook that they'd split and and you know, it seems
is that they had a complicated relationship. Like Greg Hawk said,
as long as he played with Rick, he still felt
like he didn't really know him. Yeah, you know, she was.
And then there's kind of get it gets ugly, it
kind of gets sad that it's something about his will.
She's not in it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
I don't Yeah, I didn't get into any of that
stuff at all.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Now that that's stuff that you know, that's their business.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Yeah, I don't want to. And she whatever she wanted
to have covered out about that is in her book.
So I mean, I'm you know, I'm I'm a music fan,
music is my music is my life. And I see that.
I saw that in Rick too, especially as I started
learning more about him. So that's what I wanted to

(01:08:49):
focus on with the book, and I think that that's
what people want to remember him for.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I listened to the music now and I after reading
the book now I'm listening intently at the lyrics and
try to determ. I mean, who's this about? What's this about?
What's he thinking? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Yeah, well, a lot of it is, like you know,
he was influenced by the beat poets who used words
in a very surreal way. And that's something that Bob
Dylan had started doing too, which is one of you know,
early on. So that's that's Bob dylan big influence on
on Rick, formative influence. So so a lot of it

(01:09:25):
is is uh uh, words just used to create images.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Maybe, so it may not even be autobiographical, but.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Not always, but not always.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
And that's the way I think Rick would like to
have it. Did writing the book give you a better
idea of who Rick o'cassick was as a person for you?
Or is he still a mystery?

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
He's still a mystery, Yeah, But I mean, you know,
there's there's definitely, uh, some things I learned that I
feel I gave me a better idea. But there's some
things that uh, they you know, they helped me see

(01:10:10):
the music itself in in ways that I hadn't before
and appreciate the music, you know, thinking about some part
of his life while I was listening to to a
song and and uh, you know that opened up some
some new some new tours, you know. But I mean,
it's it's it's interesting. I mean, you know, like we

(01:10:32):
were saying before Greg Hawks, I was saying that, you know,
we played in the band with a couple bands and
felt like you never really knew him. And there was
like during one you know, Rick, Greg Hawks had told
me the story about how you know sit in the
book that they first tour they were out in It

(01:10:54):
was seventy nine, so it might have been the tour
for Candia, but they were playing in Portland, Oregon. And
I know Greg has told a story in other interviews,
but Rick mentioned, oh, my son is might be at
the show tonight, and Greg only knew about you know,

(01:11:14):
his son that he had with his second wife back
in Boston where Greg met him. Greg had no idea
that he actually had a wife before his second wife, Susan,
and let alone they had two kids with that first wife.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Never came up during conversation. I mean it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Ben and Ben would have known about it, because Rick
and known Ben during that time, but Ben never mentioned
it to anybody either.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
And it's amazing. Yeah, I mean all the life on
the road, they're all up in each other's face all
the time and hanging out talking.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Yeah, well, he never came up. You know. It was
all about the music, you know, and and you know,
Rick's first wife was a woman named Connie, and I
mentioned that and Greg was like, I've never heard that
name before. I never even knew what her name was. Yeah,
So that's so there was some amazing things that that
that you know, I kind of stumbled into.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Yeah, to me, that's that's fascinating to me. I mean
that's and that you're talking about an era prior to
the Internet and social media and all that stuff. So
it was I'd like the mystery that I missed the
mystery in my favorite mystery.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
And it was definitely like being a being a detective,
you know, trying to do this night.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
So well, the book is out today as we're recording
this right. September eighteenth is the release thing, I believe,
so people can get it now, moving in stereo ric
ocast at the driving force of the cars. Yeah, oh
that's right. Find the book wherever books are sold. Look
forward at your nearest bookstore. You can also go to
books on rock dot com to find your nearest independent bookstore.

(01:12:49):
People can find you online.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Peter.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Social media website.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Uh yeah, I have a page for uh it's called
Peter Aaron, musician and author on Facebook, so.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
People can reach out to you there. Peter, thank you again.
I I was looking very much forward to this to
talk about the cars, and now I'm going to listen
to some cars music right on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
That's that's that's the goal.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Awesome, all right, Peter, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
All right man, we'll give them m that's it. It's
in the books.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ric Ocasek: The Mysterious Maestro Behind The Cars [Episode 319]

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

Ric Ocasek: The Mysterious Maestro Behind The Cars [Episode 319]

Stuff You Should Know