Rock Legends & Landmarks, Paul Rodgers' Memoir News w/ Author Chris Epting [Episode 312]

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coming up on this episode of Book Don Rock author
Chris Epting. He's written books with Phil Collin of def Leppard,
John Oates, Tom Johnson, and Pat Simmons of the Doobie
Brothers Dave Mason. He's traveled to some of the most
legendary sites in rock history, including the site of the
Buddy Holly plane crash, the site of James Dean's fatal
car crash, and if you're a fan of Paul Rodgers,

(00:22):
Chris has some major news to share with you. All
that coming up next.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm lie, I know dialogue. How's a fountain?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
The conversation That's a geyser?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Interesting? Interesting, as provocative. Taddy Man's back Man Rock and Roll.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome back to Book Don Rock, the podcast for those
about to read and rock. I'm Eric Senich. We are
back with another chapter in the Dialogue series. It's a
chill and chat with authors, fellow podcasters, musicians and more,
and our guest is author, TV host photographer Chris Epting.
He's the author of over forty books, including James Dean

(01:04):
Died Here, Roadside Baseball. Hello, It's me Dispatches from a
pop culture junkie. Led Zeppelin Crashed Here, The Rock and
Roll Landmarks of North America, and many others. He's also
co written Bear with Me here. This is a long intro, Chris,
bear with me. You've got quite quite a list of credentials.
He's co written several memoirs, including Adrenalized with def Leppards

(01:26):
Phil Colin, Change of Seasons with John Oh, It's Long
Train Running with Tom Johnson and Pat Simmons of the
Doobie Brothers, Only You Know and I Know with Dave Mason,
Son of a Milkman, My Crazy Life with Tesla with
Tesla Basis Brian Wheat, and Idle Truth with Leif Garrett.
Chris was also the co host and executive producer of
the Reals TV series It Happened Here. Chris, Welcome to

(01:48):
the podcast. Did I cover them all?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think you did a very generous job. I'm humbled
and thank you very much for that.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh, this is so cool to have you on. You
have so many stories. Before we get to the story,
let's talk about where you're from, what led you on
the path to your career. And I'm also curious to
hear about this story. You ran into Alfred Hitchcock.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, when I was well, I grew up in New York.
I've lived in California since the nineteen mid eighties, but
I grew up in New York, north of New York City.
A huge music fan from the get go. I will
tell you I have a very heavy bias towards the
Rolling Stones, who from the time I was about six
or seven years old, something just happened. I heard Get

(02:31):
Off my Cloud. It was the first song I remember
on the radio, and from there there was no turning back.
And I am an absolute Stones devotee, always have been,
always will be, and that My first concert was June
twenty second, nineteen seventy five, twelve years old, Madison's Garden Night,
one of the Stones six night stent. But from there again,
I always love rock and roll. I like a lot

(02:55):
of us of that generation. You know, pre MTV, there
were if you lived in a you know, close to
a fairly major city, you could see anybody and everybody,
and I would you know, from things like The Stones
and Zeppelin at the Garden In the mid to late seventies,
I discovered bands like the Ramones and Blondie and Patty
Smith and talking Heads and television down in places like

(03:17):
CVGB in Maxis, Kansas City. So I was kind of
had both of those worlds, the smaller kind of thing
that was about to explode and then the major artists.
And from there, I you know, it's college. I got out.
I wrote and directed commercials for a bunch of years,
but but always kind of wrote freelance and photographed freelance,
and then in my late thirties kind of shifted gears

(03:39):
started writing books and becoming a music journalist, which kind
of opened me up into this whole other world where
I could get to know a lot of these people,
write about them, photograph them, and help them tell their stories.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Who was your first big get for an interview in
life musician actor?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
When I was I was I think it was a
freshman or a freshman soup in high school and we
had an assignment where you had to interview somebody, anybody
from your life. And you know, most people would be like,
you know, they might talk to one of their parents
or the carpentry, somebody in their little circle. And I
had a different thought, and I knew I just read

(04:15):
in the paper that Fred Gwynn, who was Herman Munster
and the Monsters lived by us and I said to
my teacher, if I could talk to him, would that
be okay? And he's great, Yeah, of course, whoever interests you?
So I looked him up in the phone book and
I called him and that voice answered the phone, and
I explained what I was doing. He goes share, you know,
come on over. Great, and so my mom brought me

(04:37):
over and dropped me off there and there I was
in the home of Fred Gwynn. And he was amazing,
and he was really friendly and nice. But the issue
with him was is he cursed a lot. Not of anger,
it was just the way he spoke. So I had
this tape I've got it somewhere. I've got it a
TDK tape somewhere of him laughing and telling stories. Every

(05:00):
word is f this and I didn't know what. I
went to a Catholic high school and I said a teacher,
you know, is this okay? And he said, well, you know,
you can blot it out, you know, don't put the
words in, but let us know the accuracy of the conversation.
And so that was my first real moment. You know,
you mentioned Hitchcock. Our first trip to California in about
in nineteen seventy four, my folks were checked My dad

(05:23):
had a business trip in La we all got to
it was a vacation for us as well, and checking
into the hotel. My parents were checking in, my sisters
and I were running around the lobby of the Century
Plaza hotel. I wasn't looking where I was going, and
I ran flush into an adult stomach, and I remember
thinking that there is adults that are cool with that
and let it go, and then there is this guy

(05:44):
that's gonna make a thing out of it. And I
recognized as Zephyr Hitchcocks. I had just seen him on
television but a week before on PBS giving an interview.
And it's weird, that sounds strange. It was the only
time he had a mustache. It was like wow, and
I recognized that. And he took me by the back
of my head and he marched me over to my parents,
who were like did a double take as they saw

(06:06):
us coming. And he made this little speech about people,
kids and public behaving properly. But then as he walked
away kind of tussled my hair and he lightened it
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
So that's so I don't think there's any photos of
him with a mustache.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I I think I found one years later. It was
kind of a mustache. But again, this PBS interview he
had that and he must have shot it right around
this time, because I get the face was so recognizable.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
That is so cool man.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
So yeah, But but Fred Quinn was the first one.
And then you know, as I got into music journalism,
I don't know who the frost. I mean, I was lucky.
I got to talk to a lot of people because
I wrote for fairly big outlets, so I could get
you know, I could make a pitch to somebody, it
was usually you know, approved, So that opened up all
kinds of doors. I mean, I remember, you know, certain people,

(06:53):
you know, sitting down and talking to Jackson Brown a
couple of times was a big deal for me as
a huge Jackson Brown fan. There's people like that that
I I was a fan of, but I also respected
what they did and so I enjoyed being able to
help tell their story. And then when it happened with Phil,
with Phil Colin, you know, that was a little different
because I had never written a book with anybody, and

(07:15):
I had written about Phil quite a bit. We had
developed a friendship, we were driving down to San Diego,
I think to a show, and I mentioned in the
car and said, hey, everything about maybe doing your book
because I was thinking about as a writer, what's next.
You know, what are the opportunities, because you know, you
always have your freelance, so you're always looking for things.
And I had read some great music memoirs and I

(07:36):
wondered about that process and Phil said, yeah, let's give
it a shot. So we did, and I just fell
in love with that process. You know. Having the trust
that build up with Phil was really cool and made
me appreciate that process, and I thought, you know what
I want to I want to think of more of
these to do, and that really set me off. I
think I've done eight or nine of those.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
I picked the books that I wanted to ask you
a out just starting with I think. I don't know
if I think I went with the most recent and
then we go backwards, but whatever, we'll get to all
of them. We'll just start with a twenty twenty two book,
Long Train Run in Our Story of the Doobie Brothers
by Pat Simmons and Tom Johnson, talk about what the
guys had to say about the band, contemplating the end
of the row. They were only seven years into their

(08:18):
career and they were at this point where it was
going to be over. But things changed, as we know,
they were able to get Michael McDonald in.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
So it's one of the great I mean, really, that
story I thought was so undertold. I had met Pat first.
I was writing an article about Pat's wife, Chris, who
was a motorcycle enthusiast, and they had pitched me I
think it was for AOL or the La Times or something,
and she was in this cross country race where their
ride antique carle an amazing story, and I went down

(08:52):
and met her and Pat was there and we were
all talking and they invited me to dinner that night,
and no. Over dinner, Pat was telling stories that I'm like, dude,
I mean, and Chris, I've always told him she write
a book, so that at least opened a door and
then we would chat about it. And then I wrote
John Oates's book with him, and he and I were
doing the book event in San Francisco and Tom Johnston's
wife was the wives get everything done. I have learned

(09:13):
that you want something done, you deal with the wives. Yeah,
and Tom's wife was lovely we talked to me after
and said, wow, you know, I liked how you talked
with John, and I think Tom, you know, might be
a good thing. And then I thought, well, they could
each do individual books, but how cool would it could
be to have I just read a book by Ann
and Nancy Wilson, their memoir, and they definitely intertwined both voices.

(09:37):
I hadn't seen that done before. I loved that device,
and I thought this would be a good opportunity for that.
And so so you know, we got that together, and
you know, and talking about the part you brought up
is a tough part of the band because Tom can't
play for a while, and of course Jeff Skun Baxter
just like you know, we had this background vocalist and
steely Dan he's okay, you know, he's not that. He's

(09:59):
not not gonna replace Tom, but we can maybe continue
the tour if we all split vocals, if he sings
a little plays a little piano. I think we can
because Pat was gonna collapor. They were like three shows
into this tour when Tom had the medical issue. And
that of course is Michael McDonald who comes in and
they do this tour and it's like, you know, this
guy's pretty good, and they Tom comes back for a

(10:23):
little bit and they have I think, one tour together,
and then Tom goes off on his own, and of
course the rest is history. Michael's in there for a
long time. But then they in the eighties, the band
comes back with Tom and Pat at at home and
now they're all together. I think they're to me. In
the back of that book, I write an essay about
how underappreciated I think the DeBie Brothers are sure. Think

(10:44):
about original members being in a band, of what they've done,
of how they've started, and what they've been through, and
you know, I think they're incredible. I really think when
you talk about great American bands, for me, whether it's
the Eagles, the Dead, you know, Kiss, Metallica, whomever you
have to for me, put the Dope Brothers in that mix.

(11:07):
They're substantial for what they've done and what they continue
to do. They just released a great new record, you know,
and it's like, how many legacy artists at that level
are doing that well they're doing it.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
I haven't heard it. I haven't heard that. I don't
think i've heard that anything off of that album, But
I did watch on YouTube a recent concert that they had.
This is maybe two three years ago. They're just so tight,
you know, just amazing on stage.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
The show they put on, no pre recorded anything, that
is as real a rock and roll show as you're
going to get. That celebrates every form of American music
and then some and again. I you know, when you
write a book with people like that, one of the
really fun parts is you get to see them play
all the time because oftentimes you're doing some work on
the road. You're just sort of absorbing getting into that

(11:50):
circle and immersing yourself in that world, which as a writer,
for me, that's something I rely on to really get
a sense of what that world is like. And Seal,
I want to see all the shows.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Oh yeah, I don't blame you. You keep in touch
with all of these guys. I know obviously phil Colin,
you're a friend with him.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Now I'm going to see Pat. I'm leaving tomorrow to
visit family in New Hampshire. I'll see Pat. I don't
know when this is airing, but a week from right now,
I'll see Pat. Now. I heard the new record a
number of months ago. I was on MAUI visiting Dave
Mason and went to Pat's house and he played us
the album. Now they I don't believe you can go
through that kind of writing process if it produces a

(12:25):
good book, and not be friends for life, because what
you go through writing it, I mean, it can be heavy.
You know, you're sharing things in many cases you've never
shared before. So there's a bond that develops of trust
that goes beyond a book. You become good friends. And yeah,
you know, I'm proud that most of the books I've
written they're brothers, I mean, their family. And that's how

(12:47):
I hope it'll always be.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Podcasts will be back after this.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't
call me.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Surely let's talk about the Dave Mason book only you
know and.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
I last week up into vat. I mean again, these
are relationships that you visit like you visit family. And yeah,
Dave's book, but see Dave's is funny because this is
where I began learning that if you do well on
someone's behalf. Like the Simmons. They called me one night
and Pat and Christ said, we had dinner with Dave Mays.
They're good friends. At that point on Maui and the

(13:22):
subject of book came up and we told them about you.
Would you talk to Dave Mason? And I said, like,
are you kidding me? Like I grew up a huge
Dave Mason fan. Again to me, he's another unsung person
in the Rod family tree when you really look at
his story. And so I met Dave and then the
same thing happened.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Feeling Alright is a song that will be forever, that
will outlive all of us. Everybody knows that song, but
not just that. I mean, he's He's on all these
recordings by the Spencer Davis Group, Give Me Some Love,
and George Harrison's All Things Must Pass album. He's on
There the Stone Street Fighting Man, All Along the Watchtower.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Hendra the Man said with Paul McCartney.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yep, yep, co founder of the band Traffic. He's got
some untold tales in this book.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
He does. And to that end, his book was really
fun to write. You know.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
He had a complicated relationship with Steve Winwood.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
That's being polite, Yes, very complicated. And that's all in
the book. I mean. But as the strangest thing happened
when I was in high school in the seventies. I
went to see Dave Mason. There was a girl I
was trying to take out who was a Dave Mason freak.
I was, I think a senior nigh school, junior high school.
And Dave every year would play. There was a very
famous music festival in New York City at the Woman

(14:38):
Skating Rink. It was the Schaefer Festival to the Doctor
Pepper Festival, and Dave played it every year. Everybody played.
It was the greatest festival. Four dollars for orchestra, two
dollars for balcony outside under the stars. So we go
see Dave Mason, Pablo Cruz open. It was a great
kind of early yacht rock sort of show in seventy
eight were right up front and that was a great men.

(15:00):
So I'm at Dave's house. We're going through boxes looking
for pictures for the book, and I find an envelope
that says CP seventy eight. I'm thinking, can that be
Central Park seventy eight? The pictures are taken from backstage
looking at and I find myself and Kathy in the
third row. I said to Dave, that's.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Me and my day.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
So sometimes these circles complete in ways that you can't
even see coming. You know, it's really something.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
What was his issue with Steve Winwood? Was it over
was it over money? Creative decisions?

Speaker 2 (15:33):
I mean, my opinion and the way he speaks in
the book and my take on it is that when
Traffic started, you had Chris Wood, Steve Winwood, and Jim
Capaldi and Date. Those were the four and they went
off to a cottage where they kind of cut off
from society and made the album No Electricity like again

(15:54):
Generator and worked on it out there, and I think
right out of the gate, Dave's song writing disciplines and
styles were a little more commercial. Those guys want to
just kind of evolve and see where it went. Dave
did too. But Dave wrote this song called Hole in
My Shoe, which became a hit while they're making it
dumb and everybody seemed to resent that in the band,

(16:17):
saying well, that's not the sound we want, this kind
of poppy, and Dave's like, well, we shouldn't have a sound.
Anything should be and they were like, well, yeah, anything
but that, and Dave was like, well wait a minute.
I know some friction started there, and there may have been.
I mean, look, when would at that part point is
a huge star when traffic starts. The other three guys

(16:38):
no one's heard of, essentially, and I'm not sure. Again,
this is my opinion. I've never spoken to step one't
about it, so I would never want to represent his view.
But if you look at the activity and listen to
Dave's part of it, I think there may have been
some sense of kind of threat that this guy can
write big songs, and maybe that would have created a
challenge for any kind of band leadership. Perhaps, I don't know,

(17:00):
could be. It looks when was a genius. I'm not
gonna read into his things because I'm a Steve Winwood fan,
but I think there were other things as well that
led to it. And also Dave left the band, I
mean after I don't even know if the first album
was out yet, but he left. He didn't, he couldn't,

(17:20):
he felt too much pressure. He's like nineteen years old.
He has his brutal breakup with a girl. He goes
to a Greek isle and that's where he writes feeling
all right, yeah yeah, And coincidentally he's in New York.
A few months later, he runs into the guys in
Traffic and making the second album. They kind of make
up and they make and that's on the second Traffic album.
But then other thing. The book opens with this incredibly

(17:44):
dramatic scene which is kind of like, uh, I don't know,
it's like outas the Sopranos where Dave Ghost is invited
to a band meeting, which is really kind of a
hit because he goes in there. They're all on one
side of the room, Dave's on the other, and they
fire him from the band and he's like he thought
they were going to be discussing a new tour or
something and uh, and that's how that went down. So

(18:05):
it's like I said, it's I think it's a really
interesting book with a lot of cool stories like that.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
What did he have to say about we just disagree, Well, he.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Didn't write that. That was you know, a guy named
Jim Kreeger, who was his guitar player, who who's who's
since passed away, amazing singer, guitar player who brought Dave
that song and Dave said, I mean, Dave I thought
was great because he was open to that from another
band meet because he thought it was a good song.
So that's actually Kreeger's song and it's Dave's biggest hit.

(18:35):
Uh you can hear Creaker singing background on it, and yeah,
so that's I mean, Dave's written a lot of amazing
songs only you know and I know you know, let
it flow. But but but we just disagree. I mean,
feeling all right, but we just disagree was actually written
by his bandmate.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Now, one more question about Dave Mason before we move
on to the next one. But he did play in
Fleetwood Mac. And I believe that was early nineties. Wasn't
that right before right before they reunited with that famous lineup.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, and to hear the story about it, it was,
you know, Dave got brought in.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Not a lot of people know about that.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
No, and it actually they released an album. It was
Christine mcvee, John mcvieh Mickfleetwood Beca Bramlett, Bonnie Bramlett's daughter.
And you know what's interesting about it, Dave would play
some of his songs at the show. They weren't packing
arenas like Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac, but they did with

(19:31):
Crossing Stills and Nash. They did play a lot of
shows and they toured a lot.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, I remember they played at Toad's Place in New Haven,
which is a small club two three thousand people.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
And I think what happened is that ended up inspiring
Lindsey and Stevie to kind of come back. I think
having it out there, in some way it became a
pathway to the dance, the famous reunion in the early nineties.
So it did serve kind of a weird purpose in
helping to spark the reunion of the band. But they
I loved that. He and Mick Fleetwood are great friends.

(20:03):
Mick I spoke to him for the book. Mick wrote
a really nice piece for the book, and you know
they go back to late sixties with traffic and early
feet with Mac, Peter Green and all that. But yeah,
Dave did was a member of Fleetwood Mac.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's cool. Tesla one of my favorite bands to come
out of the eighties. You co authored the twenty twenty
book with bassist Brian Wheat titled Son of a Milkman,
My Crazy Life with Tesla, and he lived the sex, drugs,
and rock and roll life style to the hilt, but
it came into cost that took years for him to repair.
And tell us about that, he really opens up in
this book.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Whenever you write a book with somebody, for me anyhow,
I like to find, Like I always say, if someone's
really well known, My first speech to the Mozeau is,
let's write a book as if nobody knows who you are.
Let's take that point of view to really explain things
and share things, almost like it's a fictional tale, because

(20:56):
most rockstar lives do read like fiction. My point always
the fans will always get the book, but what about
people that don't know about you? What can we share
that's going to pull in people. That's just like a
good story that maybe you've never listened to Tesla And
with Brian, what I'm very happy he was open to
was sharing health issues that came up, and things like

(21:17):
shaming and being overweight and having anxiety, things you don't
normally associate with that with that lifestyle. To Brian, it
was important to put that in the book, especially to
let other people know they're not alone. And that made
his memory, I think, very different from other ones, and
that there was this human element of very non rock
star related traits and stories.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
He was out when he was promoting the book, he
had a story I believe it's in the book. I'm
a huge fan Halen fan. So the story was that
David Lee Roth was going to manage Tesla. Am I
getting that right?

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah? I have to look at the book, but yes,
that's absolutely true. He was involved, thought loved them, and
it was almos almost like the way Geene Simmons first
got involved with Van Hale and like you see a
band that you think is gonna I don't know what
happened to reroute that, but no, he was absolutely there
and present. There were a lot of people early on
that really loved Tesla. I mean, def Leppard took them

(22:15):
out on the Hysteria tour, you know, and they were
almost like the baby band for def Leppard back then,
you know, because def Leppard loved them. Phil Colin wound
up producing some Tesla later on. But yeah, Brian and
Brian also had a really good memory for stories. That's
not always the case in some cases you've got to
do a lot of interviews to substantiate things or fill

(22:35):
in some holes. But you know, Brian was really sharp
with those stories and that was a fun, slightly easier
to book book to write as a result.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Leif Garrett his story is pretty well known I mean,
this is a guy who's survived a lot of teen
idol on top of the world drugs let him down
a dark path. What can you share from this book
from twenty nineteen you co authored with him. It's called
Idle Truth.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah. I could probably write a book about writing that book. Yeah,
there's a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
When you how did that come about? By the way,
how'd you team?

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Uh, there's actual story behind it. When I was growing
up in the seventies, I wasn't a teen idol fan.
I mean I was in the late seventies into the
Rolling Stones and the sex Pistols, the Ramones. But I
was aware of who Leife Garrett was. How could you
not have been? It was really he was the heir
apparent to Shaun Cassidy. And I was at a party

(23:27):
in I must have been a senior in high school
and this girl and I were sitting on a couch
watching the TV and that was the night that the
Leafe Garrett Variety special was on. He was the youngest
network star to ever. I was on Variety and talking
about like time changing, was Bob Hope, Flip Wilson, Laithe Brookshields,

(23:48):
Marie Osmond, real pop cultures now and we're watching the
show almost ironically like it's a spoof. But I remember
saying the girl I was talking to, you know, it's
almost like he gets the I think he seems actually
pretty cool, like he's he knows there's this is all fake.
He had a real kind of innate sense that struck me,

(24:09):
and then I learned we're basically the exact same age.
And then all through life in the eighties and nineties,
when he would pop up on the news infamously for
like a drug arrest or an accident or something, I
always looked at him. I thought, what happened? You know,
like when you when you're the same age, you've gone
through guy, but twin sister, we go through things at
the exact same pace. And I kind of felt that

(24:31):
with Laife, and I felt bad whenever I would see him.
I thought, you know, there's a story here, that many
stories here. And then in the UH it was around
two thousand and so a VH one did that Behind
the Music episode, which was like, I mean, everybody, I
think it was the highest rated episode.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
It was mind blowing. Yeah. Yeah, he meets up with
the front of his that was in a wheelchair because
that for those who may not know that story, talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
When Laife was completely at the apex of his fame,
he was driving his Porsche. A buddy was in the car.
He rolled the Porsche down and his buddy was permanently paralyzed.
He died just a few years ago.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Oh I didn't know that. And he was a dancer, right.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
God while we were writing the book. In fact, oh Man,
I told Laife that he died.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
He was a dancer, right, that was he wanted a career.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, And they weren't actually really good friends.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Was he a biker, a dancer, a skateboarder? It was something.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
He was a dancer, and just sort of like la
had a lot of these people. They'd all hang out
and it was a place called Flippers. It was like
a roller disco place i Los Boulevard, and so anyways,
I saw that episode about Laife and I hadn't thought
about Lafe in forever, but it really struck me because again,
were of the same age, and at that point I

(25:50):
married a couple of kids and gave a life, and
I'm looking thinking what's happened to this guy? So a
few I want to say after I've written a few
of these co written memoirs, I thought, what the hell,
you know what, I hope Lafe is telling his story.
I found out whose publicist was, and I wrote her
this letter about if he ever wanted to write his story,

(26:11):
an approach that I think would be effective to take,
and I laid out a whole thing just cold call.
I'd never done that. I had never any book I'd
written at that point developed out of a personal relationship.
I had never cold called anybody, essentially, And she wrote
me back a nice don't and said, you know what,
he doesn't really want to write a book, but we

(26:32):
liked your note, like it really was touching and thoughtful,
and we appreciate that. And that was maybe a couple
three years later. She writes me back and she says,
you know what, I don't know if you remember us,
but I'm Lave's person and he wants to write a book.
And we never let go of this letter. And Lafe's
been approached by a lot of people, but he'd like

(26:52):
to talk to you, and he didn't talked to anybody
about doing this. So I go up into the mountains
overlooking Malibu, up into Pancacauson and it's an end of
the road, like I mean, no GPA, no nothing, you know,
and it's this end of it, literally the end of
the road. There's a trail that starts there off into

(27:13):
the woods. And that was the first day I'm at life.
And we bonded that day. He made me breakfast and
we just started talking about our favorite albums in the
seventies and we were just like instant best friends. And
he's like, would you please write my book with me?
And he said, dude, we're doing We're going to do this,
and thus led into this couple of two or three

(27:35):
year process that are lots of ups and downs. I'm
very proud of that book. I think that book tells
a very gritty and raw story. But it wasn't easy.
And like I said, there's a story within the story
that me I may write about at some point. It's
tough when you work with somebody who signed what's called
the Collaboration Agreement that protects certain privacies. And I've never

(27:57):
ever gone against that, you know what I mean. People
are entitled your own business and privacy. But it was tumultuous.
It was there were a lot of great moments in there,
and you know, I guess that I'm very proud of
that book.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
How does he somebody like him in his position, there's
many who've gone through it financially, how do they what?
What does he do to to support himself? I mean
he's been on TV shows, I've seen him do.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, it's a good question. I'm not really sure because
the number of years have gone by. I know that
there was there was some property left in a in
a state. There's stuff like that that exists. To what
degree I don't know. I think there's probably still some
kind of royalty thing from other things he's done. There's
nothing really from part of a cookie by the way.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Oh, absolutely, does he work steadily? You know? Does he
get gigs? Does he go out and tours? Does he
do like the Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Not to my knowledge. I mean, while we were writing
the book, he would occasionally do a little set at
the Whiskey Go Go couple of songs. But for Laife
it was always frustrating. Is him wanting to separate from
the nineteen seventy Leafe Garrett and society doesn't always let

(29:13):
you do that. They want you to be that person.
And de Laife's credit. Artistically, I always thought it was
cool that he wanted to do new things and try
new things, that explore new things. I think you're as
an artist, you're entitled to that.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
And yeah, he's a rocker. I mean he's a rock
and roll guy, right.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, I mean again, he and I grew up in
very similar mindsets. We saw the same concerts, we listened
to the same things. We were really tight. So yeah,
he's rock and roll through and through, but he wasn't
allowed to be that guy. They would when he I
mean he would secretly mix in some Zeppelin songs when
he would play back then, just to scratch that isch,

(29:52):
you know.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
I think they mentioned that in the VH one special.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, he would do that, and that helped him cope.
It was like a coping mechanism, you know. But look,
being a teen idol is not easy. What you get
put through, what the expectations are, and the lack of control.
I'm sure for all of them back then, whether it
was David Cassidy or Shawn Cassidy or life, you know,
it's hard.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's a really and the shelf life it's it's not long.
Two years, yeah, two years, that's it.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
But you know what, what I learned this is in
the book, so I'm not speaking out of school. After
the accident, he really couldn't do much here because the
accident was very infamous and there was gonna talks of
a trial and all this. So and at that point
he was kind of coming to the end. He's a
couple of years in now, so his life cycle as

(30:44):
a teen idol was sort of wrapping up. His management
was very shrewd back then. They realized there were parts
around the world, like in Far East Asia, that were
a couple of years behind us culturally, and they thought,
let's throw let's take him to Korea. Let's take him
over there, and it's like they've never had him. And

(31:06):
so they've basically created a new career to keep the
Golden Goose laying eggs for another year or two out
of this country, where the accident over there wasn't that
big deal, you know, And they got him in the
magazines and so for him, a lot of the things
restarted over there.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Booked on rock podcasts. We'll be back after this.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Don't go away, gentlemen, we may need all of you.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Not too long ago, the news hit about the falling
out between Hall and Oates over their song publishing. You
co author John's memoir from twenty seventeen, Change of Seasons.
How did he meet Darrell Hall? What was their relationship
like through the years? Were there was there always tension
between the two? Was that more recent.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
They met in Philadelphia, both going to school. There was
a battle of a band. It's basically, and I think
of the not the Uptown Theater, another theater in Philly.
Their bands are both going to play their backstage shots
ring out in the theater, and so John and Darryl's band
gets pushed into a service elevator where they're going to escape,

(32:16):
and they're face to face and they're like, what the
And they start talking in the elevator and they're like,
well we should hang out. And that's the spark of it.
That's really where it starts. And then one of my
favorite parts a lot of these books, for me, the
most interesting parts are before the people are famous, because
once they're famous, you know a lot of that stuff.
But there's a fascinating sequence set of sequences in John's book.

(32:41):
And John, I will tell you, of all the books
I've done, I think John's is always going to be
in a way. It's especial on a real, on a
big level because John as a writer, we collaborated, We
remain great friends. I am really fond of John. Oh
it's as an artist, as a writer, as a musician, everything,
and you know, we wrote very closely on this. But

(33:03):
the other secrets in the book I was referencing was
when John gets out of college in like sixty seven
or so, he does what a lot of them do
that he went to Europe and tradesed around for three months. Right.
He and Daryl are friends at that point, but that's it.
They've not worked together. And Daryl gets his sister to
rent John's apartment while he's gone. John says, hey, would

(33:25):
Kathy sub let my place? Yeah, no problem. John comes
back three months later, there's a padlock on his door.
She didn't pay the rent. So John's been evicted and
he's got nowhere to go. He walks down to Darrow's
place and says, your sister kind of did me in here,
and Daryl has got a little loft apartment and says,
just stay here. That's what put them in the place

(33:47):
to start making musics.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Right, so wow, that's we would walk the streets of
Philadelphia before the book came out, did a little video
series like Okay, here's the apartment. If you don't get
evicted from this place, maybe you don't get to this place.
And we went to Darryll's place and the fact they
were forced to live together, that's where they start really collaborating.
That's the spark of I mean, the mailbox was haul

(34:13):
and oats.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
And when did things start to go wrong for them
long into their career.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
I don't know. I mean, look, I saw all on
outs play. If I saw them once, I saw them
sixty times working on the book. I mean again, they
put on great shows, sold out every arena, every theater. Whatever.
It caught me off guard too. I mean, look, there's
always artistic tensions that I think exist, or disagreements, but
I've seen that a million times. Sure, you know, so

(34:42):
what happened was nothing. I was privy to it, and
I was, you know, surprised, like everybody, was it that happened?
You know?

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, surprised for sure. When he's on CBS, I think
doing an interview with CBS's basically saying, you know, people
think that when you see these bands, they're all buddies
and everybody's getting along. Yeah, he goes, we haven't. We
would for the longest time. We'd show up at the
gig in separate buses or planes or whatever.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, isn't a bad thing, because I think once you
understand the business of it and the dynamics, you don't
have to be friends. You know what you're there for.
You know, whether it's Jagger and Richard whomever. You know
what the gig is and what can help it keep
it going. Sometimes you don't get sick of each other.
You're there to work, And I think you can look

(35:28):
at it that way as well. One funny anecdote in
the book is, you know, they had a little stoop
at outside their apartment in Philly, this little little place,
and a girl walked by one day and John starts
chatting her up. And she's a flight attendant and her
name is Sarah Sandy actually, but she also goes by
Sarah And John writes a song for an album called

(35:51):
the Album's Abandoned Luncheonet and and she says, well, I'm
a fight attendant. I'm going to Las Vegas with a
bunch of gamblers. They call it a Las Vegas. Turnaround,
you just go and combat that night, and John says, wow, cool,
he writes a song cool, let's face turn around. I
think he may see her for a little bit, but
she ultimately goes with Daryl Hall and Sarah Smile is

(36:11):
written by her.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Was another breakthrough single.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yeah, pretty much. I mean She's gone and started once
Aaris had to hit what She's Gone and sort of
put that back in and pushed it. But it's certainly
Sarah rich girl though that seventy five, seventy six. Yeah,
but yeah, Sarah Smile definitely was an explosive moment for them.
But uh, you know, she being in their lives really
affected their careers as well, because her younger sister, Jana

(36:36):
Allen wrote Kiss on My List and Private Eyes. So
these meetings you learn with these people is one second,
things happen and everything changes as a result.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
So many hits their songwriting process. Did they get it?
Did he get into that a lot about that chemistry
between the two, how they wrote songs together.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah. Well, the thing about them that I think really
helped was you'd a variety of sceos. They would write together,
they would write apart. Jana might have an idea, so
you had a female point of view, you had collaborations,
you had solo things. So if you listen to Hall
and Oates hits, none of them really sound alike, which

(37:15):
I think is interesting. If you look at She's Gone
versus Sarah's Smile versus out of Touch, they all sound different.
It isn't like a band where you can always tell
it's them, you know what I mean. There's not like
a signature sound, and I think that's because the inspirations
were coming from so many different sources.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Def Lepperd one of my favorite bands. So let's get
to Phil collins memoir Adrenalized from twenty fifteen. He's the
longtime lead guitarist for def Leppard, but not an original member,
and long before he joined the band, he was really
roughing it out in pub bands. To talk about that
and how he, along with def Leppard really had to
struggle and fight their way to the top. Work ethic

(37:55):
huge with def Lepperd to this day.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Oh my god. They That's the thing with them is
that working class. We call it blue collar over here
in this country. But yeah, Phil was in a very
cool glam band called Girl before that heavily into Bowie
and glam rock like Joe Elliott and when Phil joins
the band. I mean, they've had some success, but it's
really I think, you know, uh, Paramania was obviously such

(38:21):
a huge breakout record and Mutt laying and everything, and
Phil's audition I think basically was the solo on they
played him photograph and he went home and played came
up with the soul and they're like, yeah, he gets it,
you know, and yeah. Having seen them and been with
them a lot, their brotherhood is real. I mean again,

(38:42):
it's like they're as loyal to each other. I love
watching them kind of communicate with each other. You see
it when they play. You know they've they've got it
all where everyone's got each other's back. Phil's like a
soccer team in a way, and they are. They're always
kind of even when they're not together, there's a lot
of communication and I think they're a very unique band

(39:04):
like that. I really do. In a day where so
many bands fragment, bad math, each other, break up whatever,
def Leppard, I don't think you ever have to worry
about that. You know, they're good friends, they respect each other.
You look at what happened with Rick because Phil would
say to me, you know, people always like would say, like,
we didn't think you were gonna keep your drummer after
the accident that caused him his arm. And Phil said,

(39:26):
it's so strange because it's the exact opposite. Our thing was,
why would it cost us our drummer? He can still
play and he's our brother. We're gonna figure this out.
They never thought for a minute that was it. It's
not how they think.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
It's so awesome. They were talking about that in the
past and I love that. And that is a story
in itself. That is an inspirational story right there, the
comeback of Rick Allen.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Like anything else, I mean rock and roll, it's hard
to find a story like that. There really is where
that happened and they rallied and.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
What he's tapping the he had like a fun when
you're in the hospital bed to keep it from sliding down.
They have that foam thing at the bottom and he's
tapping that with his foot. His brother brought in a
transistor radio from to listen to tunes with and that's
when the idea came to Phil.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
They first visited him in the hot was he and
Steve Steve Clark, uh, you know, they didn't know what
to how to prepare and they said right away he
started talking about how he was going to get big
in and do this, and they thought he was delirious
for medication. They didn't realize that was the plan. And
when they did realize, they were like, we're making this happen,

(40:37):
you know. And there again they're that band. There's such
a testament to that kind of togethernesstant just collective teamwork.
I think I love them for that.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
And Phil does all the licks Steve Clark licks on adrenalized.
When Steve Clark died, sadly he died, he could not
kick his drinking and he died. And does Phil talk
about that that was a difficult thing for him.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
I'm sure, yeah, Yeah, they were like they were twins
on the road doing that stuff. And when Phil saw
the light and began a straightened out, he you know,
he couldn't get through. It was and nobody could get
through because you know, it's hard when somebody doesn't want
to do it, and it devastated him. I mean, there's
a scene about him breaking down in the freeway after

(41:22):
he's got to the studio to replace some parts and
he just Phil just breaks down crying at the behind.
It all hits him that seems not going to be
there anymore. And but again they got through that. You know,
they got through it. They figured it out, and it's again,
They're just such a remarkable band.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
I love them and never gave up during the nineties,
all the changes, the grunge era, all these things happened,
and they could have Joe Elliott said, we could have.
I think he said somebody mentioned to him once, hey,
maybe if he just break up just so you can
have a comeback tour so you'll make more money or
you know, draw more attention because it's a comeback to

(42:01):
He's like, now we're just going to keep plugging away.
And then that paid off because now they're a huge draw.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
And they they never altered what they did. I mean,
they stayed true to who they are.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, Slang was the only album where they kind of departed,
but that.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
But it's funny. I was playing this time the other day.
I think that wreck. I like that record, really interesting
record and when they hung in and you know, they
were one of the first bands to really appreciate I
think years later the concept of co headlining today, it's
like nothing but their management to think. Okay, if you

(42:38):
took Journey and def Leppard, I mean that really changed
the landscape for a lot of bands and banged for
the fans buck when you go out.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Allowed you to play in big venues. Still yeah, the
first bands to do that.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
So Death was like, I'm going to see them in
a week and a half. So all this cool, nice summertime,
chance to see old friends playing.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Booked on Rock Podcast. We'll be back after.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
This short pause. Hold your breast for the dynamic duo.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Our guest is author, TV host photographer Chricepting. We haven't
gotten to the TV and photography part yet. We're getting there.
But let's go back to two thousand and seven. Your
book led Zeppelin Crashed Here the rock and Roll Landmarks
of North America. You take readers on a journey across
North America to the exact locations where rock and roll
history took place, nearly six hundred landmarks, and I'm hoping

(43:32):
you can share a story or two, like the Bob
Dylan motorcycle accident location or the Buddy Holly crash site.
Did you go to these places?

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh? Yeah. Yeah, that's the fun at writing a book
like that is really exploring, you know, what's there, and
I mean recording studios, concert sites, death sites, accidents, everything.
I think one of my favorites is a street in
New York City, Saint Mark's Place, down in the East Village,
and there's big building there that the Rolling Stones when

(44:02):
they did their famous Waiting on a Friend video where
Mika is sitting there and Keith down the street and
they connect and you look at the building and it's
the exact same building that was on the cover of
the Lad's Up and album Physical Graffiti. So here's a
landmark that kind of lives in two different rock history moments,
which I think is really cool. I located the exact

(44:22):
site of the stage at All Timont, using aerial photography
and all this to locate out on the it's still
an open field day by the racetrack, but I wanted
to identify the exact spot where the stage had been.
I went and found on the stage in Monterey, upstate
in northern California where Jimmy Hendrix neil and lit his
guitar on fire. So I'm into stepping into those kinds

(44:46):
of places. You know, and yeah, I did a lot
of those.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
The Skinnered Plane crash site.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Did you go to Spinnard tickets to see them that year?
You know, in Madison's Hilly, I saw my ticket to
the show.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
You go to places like like I mentioned the Buddy
Holly crash. I mean, there's there's an eerie feeling that
you must get when you're there.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Buddy Holly one is actually amazing because it's still kind
of the middle of nowhere, and fans have created kind
of little shrine to it, you.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Know, and that's where again that's in Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Or where it's in North Dakota, North Dakota.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, Yeah, you've been to so many of these places.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Well, that's the fun of it. I mean, when you
go into a recording studio Sunset Sound in LA and
you think about the Stone doing Excel on Main Street,
you think of Van haleing there, you think of the
doors there, little tiny as big as this room, not
big fancy studios, a little kind of out of the
way places, and you think about what happened in there,
and you begin to reflect on what it was like

(45:43):
when they were there, and what it sounded like and
what it felt like. And for me, that's really the
exciting part is stepping into those spaces and feeling that
energy that is oftentimes left behind, you know, And.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
That's what I say, that's yeah, you get that eerie feeling,
you know, like that's just one of the books that
you've written on this before that.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
You find places. Sometimes. There's a place in downtown La
called the Morrison Hotel was an actual hotel, yeah, and
the doors. Henry Dilts photographed them famously. He wasn't allowed to,
but they kind of got in and did the shot.
The back cover of Morrison Hotel is the band at
a little tavern that was called the hard Rock Cafe

(46:29):
in down a few blocks away. I think they walked
to it, and it's funny it's no longer there. But
when the album came out, some British entrepreneurs saw that
and Henry told me. He called him and asked, does
anybody own the name hard Rock Cafe? They didn't, and
that was the birth of the restaurant chain. But anyhow,
I wanted to go find again. For me, it's about

(46:51):
going and finding location. And I go and I find
what had been the hard Rock Cafe. Today it's a store,
but if you go in, it hasn't been gutted. The pillars,
everything's original, and it's like almost a little not a department,
a little sundry store, you know, it's some little food,
little items and things like that. What was really cool
about that, though, I think this is in that book

(47:12):
is it's sort of like the Stones Zeppelin side in
New York where it has a dual function as a
rock and roll landmark. Yes, the doors are photographed there
at the bar, but in the nineteen whatever, whenever Beat
It came out, is that what we tall eighty three,
the Beat It video the Billiard Hall, That's what that
was then. So you can line up the pillars of

(47:34):
the little store and that's where Michael Jackson too the
Beating video, and that's where the door has hung out.
So you've got this great cross, you know, intertwining of
rock and roll history.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Right, they have no idea. Yeah, yeah, James Dean don
but there are four altogether, right.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, they're like a series. James Dean did here was
the first one. Meril Monroe died here, which is d
y ed. Each book has like five or six hundred places.
Elvis Presley passed here. It's not about where he died.
It's worried about he played flag football in LA. And
then I did one called it Happened right here, I think,
which is the whole kind of all kinds of locations

(48:12):
all over North America. So yeah, I you mentioned TV show.
There's a show called it Happened Here on the Reals Channel.
It was based on those books really about tracing footsteps
of pop culture events, which oftentimes involve rock and roll.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Well, there will be an easy way to find all
this stuff. We can get to the links that people
can go to afterwards. But the James Dean Died Here
book that, of course there's rock and roll songs, classic
songs like James Dean by the Eagles, and Don McClain
references it in his classic American Pie tell Us about
the location on that day that James d. Dowry. He

(48:46):
was at a gas station. Just bea wasn't a photos
taken of him? He was getting gas.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, I retraced the whole day in the book. What
happened was he was going up to Salinas in northern
California to race his new poor Spider. They were towing
the car, which was new on a trailer. They stopped
for gas in Shriman Oaks, California, and the mechanic says,
you know what, you haven't driven this thing much. Let's
take it off the trailer, drive it up so you

(49:11):
can get a feel for the car. You don't really
know this car yet. This is the decision that ends,
is like with several hours later, as they're up there,
the mechanic is riding with Dean in the car. The
other guys are in the truck that was driving the
trailer hitch and of course, in a little speck on
the map called Shalam between Baker's Field and Postle Robliss,
Dean comes up out of kind of a hill which

(49:33):
you can't see. A big car is turning. They collide.
Donald turnip Seed is the driver. Dean is not killed instantly,
he dies. They believe. I interviewed the two cops who
recovered his body before they passed O oh wow, believe
it or not, and they think he died. What's crazy
is after they put him in the ambulance, that car

(49:53):
had an accident on the way to the hospital. It
drove off the road, and you know, but they made
they thought Dean might have still been alive them, but
he died somewhere, probably en route to there. And I
just thought to call the book that because that represented
all of those places that we passed by every day

(50:15):
and you don't know what happened there. So the book
is about lots of those places, and to me, James
Dean Dieier, that's just sort of the He's always going
to be one of the great pop culture icons. And
that book for me was a game changer. NPR made
it like their Book of the Summer. It's weird, but
like in whenever it came out in two thousand and
one or so, offbeat travel wasn't really yet a thing,

(50:36):
that kind of road trip looking for movie locations and
all that kind of thing. There wasn't a lot of it.
And this book became kind of that, and it built
an audience pretty quickly, and it allowed me to do
sequels because clearly, you know, the book did well enough
improved that people wanted those kinds of places, movie locations,
crime scenes, accident sights, whatever, just to make sense.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
For me.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
It started as a kid in New York I read
an article about marily Monroe's dress and the seven year
itch word billowed up over the subway grading, and I
didn't really know who she was, but it said that
the subway grade was at the northwest corner of Lexington
Avenue in fifty second Street, And the next time we
were in the city, I like dragged my parents over
there just to find it. And I found it and

(51:20):
I thought, nobody knows this but me walking around that
day and that was the moment. That was the spark
where I thought, there's got to be a lot of
places that we walk over, but something happened there and
that literally I was about ten years old. I never
got that out of my system, and from that point on,
I was always if something happened, I would think, where
is that? How can I go find it? And that

(51:44):
propelled me off into kind of where we are today.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Book on Rock podcast. We'll be back after this suspense
is killing me. The Marilyn Monroe died here dyed is great.
I love this story because this is where she died
her hair blind. He went to the location there on
Hollywood Boulevard, which.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Doesn't some people might mean that's frivolous, But when Norma
Jean Baker becomes Meril Monroe and becomes a blonde, that
does in a lot of ways change cultural history. All
of a sudden this icon is born. So I don't
take that lightly. I think those moments do matter, you know.
And and again I think it's a little coffee place today,
same building, and I was in there. I think taping

(52:26):
a little documentaries thing was and talking to one of
the priests is like he was blown away. He loved
Meril Monroe and he could not believe that it happened there.
When people learn about these things, it redefines their feeling
about it, and it creates like an instant emotional connection.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Sixty five thirteen Hollywood Boulevard. Hey did you do the
Almond Brothers site where both Dwayne Almond and Barry Oakley
the bas is? One year later, same place.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
I'm an a Brothers so when I selfishly love a band,
and I'll always kind of dig deeper. So yeah, I
have the accident sits I've got, of course, the house
where they lived. I went to the grave of Elizabeth Reid.
I went to the site of the wall where they
shot the back of the front cover of Live at
the Fillmore East. So yes, absolutely, the Almann Brothers factor

(53:17):
and a number of my books down to Macon primarily,
and I've been there number of times. In fact, I
think they've done a really good job in the city
of commemorating the Almond brother's history there.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Love that band. Love that band. Another title Elvis Great Band.
Elvis Presley passed here and this is he passed the
football there. He had touched football games with other celebrities.
This is where. What was the park?

Speaker 2 (53:40):
It's called Denev Park. It's off of Beverly Glenn your
son set right in really nice area, a little small
park you would play Ricky Nelson's and I just helped
that with a book with Gunner and Matthew Nelson Ricky
Sons that comes out later this year. And they knew
about that, would tell me little stories about Elvis and
all that their dad, So that was always kind of

(54:01):
fun to kind of get their take on it.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, and I love Elvis too. There are great Elvis sites,
of course, all over the place. And in that book
there is a whole chapter just on Elvis' locations.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
The book on Jimmy Hendrix, this is one Hendricks fans
should get if they haven't got it yet. It's from
twenty twenty three it's called Jimmy and Me The experience
of a lifetime. A young screenwriter named Jonathan Stephachus with
just one movie credit to his name, is invited to

(54:32):
collaborate with Jimmy on a film, and then it leads
to one of the craziest trips in music history. Any
stories you can share from this? How did this guy
meet Jimmy?

Speaker 2 (54:42):
He was a college kid in the late sixties who,
like a lot of college kids, would make a little
experimental film. He forgot about this movie even like in college,
and he kind of wrote it. It was like a
nothing movie. He gets a call one day. It's like
he's back living in his parents' house in like sixty
eight and uh, it's a He summoned to mid toim

(55:04):
Manhattan for a meeting. They don't say what bring him in.
Our clients saw your film and for the film, you know,
and then you remember, you mean that thing that Yeah,
what happened? Was it ran for either one or two
days in London. Whoever had financed this little film. If
it ran someplace, I guess you could recoup some of

(55:27):
the money you had to get it shown somewhere. Once
on that day, Jimmy Hendricks happened to be in the
theater and he fell in love, and he noted who
the quote writer was. Jonathan's like, I don't evemember what
I wrote. But they bring bring Hendricks in into the
room and he says, I love your film man, and Jonathan,
who's a Hendricks fan, is like really, and he says,

(55:50):
I want to I want to do a film with you.
I want to create. I want to collaborate with you,
and they do. But what happens is that, you know
Hendricks at that point, his time is kind of weird,
so we can't find a ton of time to collaborate.
So Jonathan just gets swept up in the storm at
that time. So there are really cool stories. If I

(56:11):
can share a quick one that's non musical related, but sure,
it's so crazy. Jimmy is up in Woodstock, New York,
getting I think he's getting ready for the festival, which
is going to be about thirty miles away in Bethel,
and Jonathan's up there, and Jonathan has a friend who
lives locally in Woodstock. He's a beekeeper, and he gets

(56:33):
called Jonathan's with Hendrix, and Jimmy says, where you're going?
Why my beekeeper friend got an emergency. Jonathan goes and
meets him, the beekeeper friend, who's got a truck, and
he says, listen, my girlfriend and I we're moving our
beekeeping thing up north, like I think, to Washington State.
We can't sell enough candles here. It's just not work
and can you lend us some money, like some seed money?

(56:55):
And Jonathan's like, do I go? Ask Kendricks and he says,
how much do you need to get? This is about
two thousand dollars that's all Jonathan has, which he has made.
He's a photographer too, he has sold a few Hendricks
pictures already. Jonathan's and the guy's look, i'll pay you
back double if we want to make the money back,
and we'll make it back. Jonathan gives him the money.

(57:16):
They load all the bees up. Jonathan gets stuck. Hendrick
says to him, what the hell happened? I got friend
with the Hendricks rolling his eyes. I did. You're never
gonna see that money again. He doesn't see the money again,
but the friend moves up north and after a couple
of years, the candle thing doesn't really happen. But his
girlfriend's like, we gotta shift gears. Here we got the

(57:38):
freaking bees. She reads a seventeenth century book about the
medicinal properties of bees wax, and she's like, you know what,
let's make something non candle. Let's think of some products
that would harness this supposed health benefit. His friend's name
was Bert no Way, and I urged, Yeah, that's the guy.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
I used that stuff every days.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
That's the company. Yeah, so that's again, that's a little
weird storing the book, but it's still at first efoughts
we put that in there. That's too good. You have
to you have to find a way to make sense
of it. And the fact that Hendrix was like commenting
on those things like okay, that's cool. That that that
gets it in. Because Hendricks acknowledged effect of the bees.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
That is so wild. All right, let's talk about the
TV series it happened here? How did that all come about?
What was the show about? You know, maybe say, share some.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Ten episodes we did. I think they're on demand on
the Reals Channel. It's just you know, I had been
approached by a production company, but adapting those books of
retracing footsteps of famous places related to people, because I
was doing that anyway, so hey, let's take Jonas Joplin.
I'll go to the bar where she has her last drink.
I'll go lay on the bed where she does all
that guy thing. And that's what we did. So John Lennon,

(59:03):
Marvin Gaye, Kurt Cobain, Janice, it's I'm very proud of
the series. Got really good response, and it's me and
other guests related to the subject. I'm kind of a
storyteller that threads the narrative. But then we'll have like
Marvin Gaye's sister giving heritic, Richard Pryor's son, all that
sort of thing. And but what was a really fun

(59:26):
show to do? I like doing I like televised storytelling
like that. I like being out on location.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
How long did it last? How many seasons? It was?

Speaker 2 (59:34):
One season? Ten episodes. We talk about maybe another one.
COVID kind of got in the way of another one,
Like we do a lot of different projects. But we
were talking. In fact, the production company and I've been
talking about something similar to that, like an updated version
of it.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
That great book podcast. We'll be back after this. Your
Pants Pockets Hold Kids in the Future were the pants
and sign out? Hey guys, thanks so so much for
checking out the Booked on Rock podcast. If you've just
found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening, thank you
so much for your support, and make sure you tell

(01:00:08):
a friend, a family member, share on social media and
let people know about Booked on Rock. And if you
do like the podcast, make sure you subscribe give a
five star review. Wherever you listen to the Booked on
Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker, tune In,
and on YouTube music. You can check out the full
episodes on video, along with video highlights from episodes on

(01:00:30):
the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it at Booked
on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back to the show.
There's a section on your website features your photography, so
let's talk about that. Some beautiful photos that I want
to ask you about. But first, how did you get
into photography?

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Always been a hobby as a as a kid. I
like nature photography, but the more music journalism I started doing,
I would always like I would ask the subject if
I could fotograph them in portrait for the story, but
also to give me a deeper sense of what they
were about. Because it was a little photography session and

(01:01:10):
at first, you know, not everyone agreed to it, but
once they started doing it and saw that it actually
enhanced the story, I would shoot everybody like that, you know,
and it became a real fun part of any journalistic project.
And you know, I remember, like Steven Tyler, for example,
where I would shoot me, let me see, let me

(01:01:30):
seet me see. He looked again, let me do that,
and he started shaping the process just by looking at what,
you know, which was cool. And oftentimes this would be
after I had spent a little time with them, so
some trust had been developed where I don't go in
like interviewing. I would try and have conversations and if
that felt good, then they would, I think, give you

(01:01:52):
a little bit more as a visual subject, you know.
And I was always fortunate. I was consider myself fortunate
to do that, and it made for some fun pictures too.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
And it turns out you took a picture of Ozzy
Osbourne recently, and we've obviously lost Ozzy. It's a great loss.
You took a photo of him. I think it's dated
twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
It's I think it's a little older than that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
It's a little older than that. What's the story behind.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Me not that long ago, and it was like it's
a non it's like a non Azzi photo. I don't
know if you have it up, I can post it.
But yeah, it's a very pensive because he was talking
about this something that happened that particular day. Some news
had come out that was unfavorable in a certain degree

(01:02:42):
to his livelihood, and some things related to to a
tour he was announcing, and you see it. I think
in his face it's a very serious, pensive kind of look.
But I think it also presents a very sensitive part
of him that was there. I think our Ozzie was
a far more complex artist, and he gets creditor. I

(01:03:03):
think he understood who he was. I don't think he
was a caricature. I think he took himself more seriously
than he let on, and I think he worked really
hard at what he did. You know, I think his
relatability to people, it's kind of like def Lepard in
a way that workman like, working class, get it done thing.
I think Ozzie was sort of the first of that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
You know, you're preaching to the choir with Ozzie and
def Leppard two. But Ozzie to me was just brilliant
and the body of work is absolutely phenomenal, from Sabbath
to solo. Yeah, I'm sorry it was twenty fifteen, it
says here, not twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
I think it's earlier than I think it's later than that,
actually dated. And I've shot him numerous times too. Once
we did it once and Sharon liked it. Then you're in,
you know, Then she said, oh, shoot us, shoot us,
shoot us. I did it a number of times. And
same thing with Aerosmith and Gene Simmons lou Reid, which

(01:04:00):
huge was a am auge, huge lu read fan, And
that was difficult and challenging, but totally worth it because
he didn't like having his picture taking.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Evidently, I can imagine you. Was it Gene Simmons with makeup,
without makeup.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Without Well, I've done both, but it was without and
uh and I'm super proud of those. I'm a big
kiss fan, same hell and I mean I appreciate and
respect kiss and uh so yeah, you know, I like
I like that, And when I write a book with somebody,
I like to shoot them, you know, and like to
get that going. So I've shot John on anybody I've

(01:04:34):
worked with. I like to photograph just my own portfolio
or just kind of give them something back that they may.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Like, beautiful stuff like the coyote and Death Valley.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Yeah, yeah, I guess I love nature photography and and
I shoot a lot of birds. That's really my favorite
aspect of nature is bird life, So I still shoot
a lot of those.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Well, people can see all of my percepting dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
And I was happy my son at that time, who
was in college, he took up photography and then he
would come all the shows I covered, and so he
and I had a great time seeing dozens, if not
hundreds of bands, and he shot everybody, I mean, just
from the biggest of the smallest, from punk stuff on
the Warped tour up to kissing def Leppard at the Forum.
He was always in the thick of it, which was

(01:05:16):
which is really cool to watch him kind of chase
his own dream there through Collin Booked.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
On Rock Podcasts, We'll be back after this, think about
the future. Find the bookked on Rock website at booked
on rock dot com. There you can find all the
back episodes of the show, the latest episode in video
and audio links to all of the platforms where you
can listen to the podcast. Plus all the social media
platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and x.

(01:05:45):
Also check out the booked on Rock blog, find your
local independent bookstore, find out all the latest hot rock
book releases, and before you go, check out the booked
on Rock online store. Pick up some booked on rock merch.
It's all at booked on rock dot com. All right,
let's finish with And I asked you through email if
it's okay to talk about because I don't know how
many people know about this project, but current projects. You're

(01:06:08):
working on a Paul Rodgers book. Oh my god, okay,
Paul Rogers, a guy who deserves a book, tell us
about this. When is it coming out? When's a duout?
What's it going to be?

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
And he talked about us publicly, so I don't feel comfortable. Okay,
good while we were super quiet, but he talked about
us when he was on Eddie Trunk and I met Paul.
I'm a interviewed him years ago and I wasn't sure
remembered that, but about a year or so ago, somebody
representing him contacted me, somebody I had worked with, and said,
you know, Paul needs a book. He's never really wanted

(01:06:42):
to do it, but would you at least talk him
about it? And I said, I mean, I'm you don't
have to ask twice. I mean, Paul Rodgers to me,
is you know if any Rock Royalty truly exists? And
he would hate me saying this, because he's very humble
and very modest, But come on, if you're if you
grew up when we up, you know, a bad company
and especially free for me, I was love free.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Everything else is bad company. The firm, the work he
did with the firm, everything solo work. The guy's voice
is velvet, legendary voice.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
And so we had a zoom call and I could
tell he didn't want to do a book. We talked
about it and joked a little bit, and I think
he realized that the process could actually be fun, and
it could be wistful and a little nostalgic. And he'd
been through so many health things. I think that shifted
his perspective as well, because all of a sudden, now

(01:07:36):
no one's guaranteed anything.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
And how is he doing? By the way, he had
a heart condition.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Great, he had a number of strokes and hard things.
He's done great, We've been working on this for a year.
Our hope is that it's out next year. A lot
of work's been done on it. I've done a ton
of interviews for it. Paul and I have had dozens
and dozens of sessions where he has shared wonderful stories
from growing up up through his entire career, from again

(01:08:02):
the early days into Free into Bad Company everything after that.
So I think we have photos that are absolutely incredible
and most people haven't seen. This book is going to
be really special. This was all culminating around the fact
that Bad Company finally got inducted into the Rock and
roll Hole. Ceremonial will be this fall, which is really

(01:08:23):
exciting and a good thing for the book, And yeah,
I am, I'm so excited. I think Paul is really
he's one of the most graceful rock stars you'll ever meet,
because he really is modest, and he really is He
doesn't carry himself in a way that some people do
at that level. His humble nature I think belies the

(01:08:46):
ferocity of what he brought us, The soulfulness, the blues
based just you know, unmatchable passion that he brought to
the those hits and deep cuts and everything so solid
and amazing guitar player, which people don't know a lot about. Really.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
I saw a Bad Company with Leonard Skinner maybe ten
fifteen years ago up in the sight of Woodstock there Bethlee,
New York. Yeahah yeah, when he started when they broke
into Seagull. I mean the goosebumps, I mean just goosebumps
listening to him sing that song that is That is
my favorite deep track of his from Bad Company.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
It's a new tribute record comes out this fall. It's
announced where a bunch of artists have done Bad Company
songs and Joe Elliott and Phil Collin do Segull. So
you'll love that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Oh that's fantastic. Well, I cannot wait to have you
on to talk about the book when it's out.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
I can't wait. Like I said, I am so excited.
I with Paul. It's like when you realize who you're
talking to and his seriousness to the That's the other
thing too, the way he embraced the project and the
seriousness with what he takes it. His wife Cynthia has

(01:10:03):
been a remarkable help. Longtime manager David Spirou the four
of us are kind of like this team and what
we've been working on the last year. I can't wait
for the world to experience it. I think it's gonna
be I know it's gonna be a really special project.
And we'll talk about it once it's out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Can you say who the publisher is?

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
No, that's still still being discussed and arranged. So that'll
be out soon, sooner than later.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Does he does he think he can go out and
perform again or is that pretty much? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
I mean, I think he could, but I think part
of him likes his life now. I think, you know,
he lives in a couple of beautiful places, you know,
I think when you come out of what he did
from a hell standpoint, I mean, he's fine, but I
think he feels like, you know, we don't know what
we have left. I live in these beautiful places with
my amazing wife. Let's enjoy this, you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
They've got they've got their life and plug that and
go on the road. I mean it's cool, but it's
really disruptive too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Yeah. Yeah, good for him. If he's happy, man, that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
That's when the Doobies kind of blow me away. In
their mid to late seventies, the doobies. I don't know
what they feel like after you would think they're in
their thirties. It's right, it's weird, but but Paul can
do it. My favorite part of our our conversation sessions
or when he breaks into song, because we'll be talking
and saying, you know why I did that, and then

(01:11:28):
he'll just start singing, I feel like making love, oh man,
and you sit there, we all look at each other
like really and he but he does that just sort
of show you what he was doing, what he was thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Yeah, does he tell you about when they recorded that
first album there at the castle there and he's singing
Headley Grange and he's out under the moonlight with the microphone.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Out a song Bad Company.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
They's singing the song Bad Company out there. They set
up the equipment outside outside ron Nevison.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Yeah, took him up on a hill under full.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Moon and again goosebumps. I could see look at.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
The hair like that lone voice. And that's a great
story in the book. But there's a ton of great
stories you learn all about Paul Cossof and Peter Grant
and all these other supporting players in Paul's life throughout
the years. And I've spoken to so many people you'll
be super surprised. I can't let onto the other voices

(01:12:21):
in the book, but it's like a it's a very
impressive group of people that really want to talk about Paul,
their stories about him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
Quite a teaser, maybe twenty twenty six, I'm gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
I think so. Yeah, I'm very confident, and again I
so applaud what you do. Eric I seriously, thanks Chris
all the There's a million podcasts and a million things
to listen to, but but your content, what you focus on,
the way you give author's voice, and the way you
share stories yourself, it's really wonderful. So thanks for what
you do. Seriously, I'm sure every one of your guests

(01:12:55):
feels the same way that We're deeply grateful for the
energy you put into this.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Thanks so much. You don't know who's listening, you don't
know who's watching, and you sent me an email out
of nowhere. I was like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
I was listening to your podcast, I'm listening recently, and
I'm like, okay, great episode. Great episode. Then I'm like
he and I should be talking, well yeah, and you
answered right back and it was like great, and here
we are.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
So you've got to get your own podcast, man, you gotta.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
I would love to continue our conversation because again I
realized is you're a great guy to talk to about it.
You're so knowledgeable, and I think you provide a really
great service.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
I appreciate it. You got to get your own podcast.
You got a zillion.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Stories someday, but you know what, I'm going to give
them to you for now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
That's right. You give them all to me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Some things when it comes to rock and roll stuff,
but you know, get really fun. And as I knew
it was gonna fly by, it's like, I feel like
we just started talking.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Yes, absolutely, well, let's talk about now. Where people can
find out more about you. Probably the best thing is
to just go to your website because it's got links
to everything, all your books.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Yes, Chris Sting dot com. I have an Amazon author's
page that has every book and I've written again, and
if you just search my name, I've written so many
articles about music. Those will pop up on a whole
variety of places I've written for over the years. Huffington Post,
I wrote Ford Music Writing, n PR, Yeah, yeah, every place,

(01:14:15):
La Times.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
How many times.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
A lot of stuff out there.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Ye, Chris hepting dot com. I'll put the link up
in the show notes as well so people can go
right there. So Chris, thanks so much.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
This is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Eric, I appreciate man. Thank you. No, no, that was
an adventure. I was quite assure you put onto the well.
Let me just close this conversation by saying you are
one unique individual

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