The 90s Alt-Rock Explosion [Episode 329]

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's an in depth look at the alt rock explosion
of the nineties. How did it all begin, what effect
did it have on not just music but pop culture,
and how did it come to an end. All of
that coming up next on Booked on Rock, We're totally
rock and roll.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
I mean, I'll leave you you're reading. Little Hands says
it's time to rock and roll.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Roll up, I totally booked. Welcome back to book don Rock,
the podcast for those about to read and rock. I'm
Eric Senach. Back for another visit on the podcast is
author Greg Prado, whose latest book is titled Alternative for
the Masses, the Nineties Alt Rock Revolution and Oral History. Greg,

(00:46):
I have decided to do an official count because I
know last few visits. You're asking, yes, are do you
have the most visits on the podcast? Okay, this is
your eleventh appearance on the podcast. You are out tied
with the great Martin pop Off.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Okay, so you have eleven? He has eleven? Who will
get to twelve? First? We shall see.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, at the end of this episode, I will announce
what my next book project is. Maybe that will lead
to a twelfth appearance.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, that's a teaser and you just told me what
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
This is a huge but we're gonna we're gonna save
it till the end of this interview. You got to
listen to this whole interview.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yes, huge news. So we'll get to that.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
So we're at the perfect age when this era of
music that you cover in this book blew up.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, can you say it? In the introduction? Most articles
and documentaries they make it seem as if Nirvana just
came out of nowhere and grunge rock was overnight, But
there was a long lead up to this. I mean,
this goes back to as far as mid eighties, maybe
even before that.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah. Well, I mean we can go back to the
late sixties if you want, with like the Stooges. I mean,
that was the seeds of punk rock, you know, five Stooges.
But I mean, really, you know, if you want to
just kind of yeah, most people point to the eighties,
you know, with Jane's addiction ram those bands.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Is that the goal of this book to tell the
complete story.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
The goal of the book for me is I always
have to make this clear. I love Nirvana, I love
Kurt Cobain, but there were a lot of other bands,
and in fact, bands that I loved as much as
Nirvana and still love as much as Nirvana. It's not
just Nirvana. It's become over the years people. You know,
when you walk into Target, you're assaulted with Nirvana shirts

(02:39):
being sold. You don't see so many shudder to think
shirts being sold or Sebado shirts being sold. You know
what I'm saying, which I mean, you know, of course
Nirvana far outsold those other bands, but I mean I
listened to Faith No More, Blind, Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, first
two albums, primuses early album. You know, there's so many

(03:01):
bands I listened to as much as Nirvana and love
as much as Nirvana. So I kind of just wanted
to shine the spotlight on maybe some other bands that
either people don't know about, or maybe that people forgot
about and maybe able to rediscover through this book.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Talk about the early alt rock scene. These bands were
literally the alternative to what commercial radio and MTV were playing.
Chapter one, titled setting the Stage. Alt rock was like
a tea cattle simmering throughout the eighties slowly and then
boom it hits. And there's some There are some great
quotes in this chapter, Corey Glover of Living Color, one

(03:37):
of my all time favorite bands, talks about Soundgarden opening
for Living Color. This is very early on and he
was blown away by this, talk about that early scene.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
So the late eighties at that point, I'm just talking
about from my personal experience I'm listening to. I'm listening
to primarily heavy metal. Then I know, with me, my
friends and a lot of people probably we are kind
of becoming sick and tired of just like what MTV
is playing, it's very predictable. The production of the late

(04:11):
eighties is just I can't even listen to it. I mean,
just to give an example, Sadly, the great Ace Freely
recently passed away, and I was listening to some of
his eighties solo albums, and his first album is good,
you know, the the production sonically is good. But then
I put on I heard a song off his nineteen
eighty nine album, which is called trouble Walking. It was

(04:34):
actually the title track, and to me, it was like unlistenable,
not because of the song, but just the production is
so harsh and so eighties, with that cannon drum and
it's just so you know, and it's.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Said built for built for stadiums and arenas. It had
that big sound to it, but now it's funny. Pearl
Jam was kind of pissed off about with ten. Yes,
it was produced like a def Leppard album and that's
not what they wanted and then they ended up remixing
it years later.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yes, but you know, it's funny is we just talked
to I just mentioned that specific song by Ace fairly
sounding the way it sounded, and it's like harsh and
just but meanwhile, it's funny. He came from the band
Kiss in the seventies there. Early to mid albums are
some of my favorite sounding albums cause they sound so live,
and especially the first actual live album is the most

(05:26):
you know a bit you know. Of course, what's funny
is I'm going to say it sounds very live. We
all know that it was heavily, heavily overdubbed, so it's
not really alive, but.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
But still sad. Yeah, yeah, it's funny to say. I
was just blasting alive on my way home today before
this interview.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
But to get back to your original question, so in
the late eighties, it just you know, there were some
great bands. Of course, we had Jane's Addiction. But for
people like me that were just kind of getting out
of heavy metal or looking to maybe broaden air like horizons.
There were certain bands that are definitely the britin between
heavy metal to then what becomes alternative or is alternative

(06:04):
that then becomes huge in the early nineties, bands like
Faith No More, Jane's Addiction, Living Color, Sound Garden, those
band and then of course later we have also Smashing Pumpkins.
So those bands really I think connect the dots for
a lot of people that were maybe into hard rock,
heavy metal, but wanted to you know, listen to alternative rock,

(06:25):
or just wanted something a little bit different that wasn't
just heavy metal. I think that was you know, like
those bands I think we can thank for kind of
setting the stage a bit.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
And they were all playing in clubs, not big venues,
kind of pockets around the country. We know Seattle of course,
but these bands were all out there. They're playing, they're
not they're under the radar, but they're out there for
a while.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
There's one thing, personally, a personal experience in the late eighties,
well throughout the eighties, I started regularly going to concerts
in nineteen eighty six that was when I was old
enough to start going, and from eighty six through the
rest of the eighties, all I saw were arena shows
because that's all I thought there really was, and that
was all that me and my friends went to. The

(07:10):
first club show I ever saw would have been in
early nineteen ninety, I think March of nineteen ninety. There
was a club called Lamore in Brooklyn, New York, and
I saw a bill that was Voivot headlining Soundgarden in
the Middle Faith in the War opening Oh wow. And
that was a life changing show just because at that

(07:32):
point I really connected with Faith No War. But seeing
them live and being so close it was totally unlike,
I mean, to love a band and to be that
close and to just be blown away. It's totally different
than me sitting in the way back last row of
Nasau Coliseum trying to squint to see what Steven Tyler
is doing. You know, it's just a totally different ballgame,

(07:53):
totally different vibe, different energy. Guys jumping in the audience.
I mean, you know you're not going to see Paul
Stanley jump in the audience, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Right right? Yeah? I mean that was the sign that
something was coming very soon. You know exactly, Let's go
back to Jane' Addiction. They are so important, And I
was fortunate enough to have a college roommate who was
into Jane's Addiction early on, huge fan played their stuff
all the time, and I came around to them and
then eventually became a huge fan. As you're writ in
the book, the importance of Jane's Addictions nineteen ninety to

(08:23):
nineteen ninety one infiltration of the mainstream cannot be overstated.
Matt Pinfield, you talk to for the book, longtime DJ,
former MTV VJ, told you this band should be credited
as the most important. Talk about Jane's Addiction and why
they're so important.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, like I said, Jane's Addiction really appealed to so
many different people, and they were huge without really having
a big mega hit single like they never had, like
a smells like teen Spirit. The song been quite Stealing,
was popular, but it wasn't like a top ten single.
The song called Mountain Song was also huge amongst just
rock fans and then and it seems like over the years,

(09:02):
the song, Jane says, has become almost like a stairway
to heaven for like alternative rock people. But when it
first came out, it was somewhat popular, but it wasn't
what it's become now, which is like an all time
classic song. So the thing that I think really makes
Jane's addiction so important is, of course Lallapalooza. That's what

(09:24):
really I think proved to people like, yes, there's something
going on, there's something on the horizon, you don't have
to be stuck listening to. I mean, I hate to
name bands, but like you know, Winger, you know, you
don't have to, which you know, honestly, you know, Winger
gets a very bad rap because they are great musicians.
Kip Winger is a very I don't know if you

(09:44):
know this. He actually writes like symphonies and stuff.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Now yeah, yeah, he was nominated for a Grammy.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, So I mean, honestly, you know, I shouldn't even
bad mouth Winger because they're actually very talented. I'm talking
more about like at that point, it's like the fourth
and fifth wave of like bad like you know, hair metal,
where it's just nothing original, which is funny. If we
skip now to about nineteen ninety five, then we have
the fourth or fifth waves of like Nirvana and Pearl
jam right.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, it came back around the same thing.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
And so it's funny how just the circle that it's
always the same no matter what, a band will come
out that changes everything. Say Guns and Roses drops. Then
you don't get bands that do their own unique version
of Guns and Roses. You get bands that are just
mimicking Guns and Roses. And the record labels love that
because that's easy just to put out a band that

(10:30):
sounds just like you know, Guns n' Roses and hopefully
they're going to score a hit. You know, that type
of type. You know, so that that has always gone
on in music, that will always go on music, back
to the Beatles, back to everybody.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
I'm curious what you think of Kennedy's quote in the book.
Kennedy was a long time MTVVJ. Yeah, she told you
that if Jans and Dixon didn't break up in nineteen
ninety one, they would have been right behind Nirvana in
terms of massive popularity. What do you think about that?
If they stay together in the nineties, what would they
have become.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
I think it's possible, but then again, I don't know
how Middle America. I mean, one thing to Perry Ferrell's credit,
he was really pushing things. I mean, now the whole
transgender thing and everything is, you know, I think much
more welcomed and much more like accepted. It's definitely much
more discussed. Late eighties early nineties, there was still a
lot of like homophobia and things like that. If you

(11:21):
just look at some of the comedians of the time,
some of like the song lyrics, whether it be hip
hop or you know, certain metal bands. You know. So
I don't know how much Jane's Addiction would have been
able to go over in you know, some state that's
maybe not that progressive. But I mean, who knows, you know,
it could have happened. You know, we don't know. I mean,

(11:41):
of course, David Bowie was huge right in the seventies,
and that was even further back in the quote unquote
dark ages of progressive thinking and things like that. Yeah,
so we never know. I mean, personally, I love Jaan's Addiction.
That's also a band that I listened to as much,
especially for that period in the early nineties, that I
loved as much as as Nirvana.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Nothing shocking is It's perfect, there's nothing.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
And they also break up just at their peak, which
I personally think was a mistake. They should have kept going,
but they broke up.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
When they broke up, let's talk about Nirvana specifically Nevermind.
That's unquestionably the moment that knocked the door down. Let
all the old rock slash grunge rock bands in. Matt Pinfield,
going back to him again, he told you that nobody
could have predicted how big Nevermind would be. No, and
he says, I if they said that, they'd be lying
to you. What did you think of Nirvana when you

(12:33):
first heard smells like teen Spirit?

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well, I just want to say Matt Pinfield is one
hundred percent right. At that point in ninety one, I
was pretty well aware of what was going on with
like the Underground and stuff like that. And the only
thing I ever heard, the only way I ever even
saw any mentioned of Nirvana. There were a few photos
a year before of Chris Cornell wearing a Nirvana's shirt.

(12:56):
That's the only thing I ever knew about Nirvana before
or it was a very weird thing. Before Nevermind came out.
There was definitely a buzz like I would be reading
writ magazine or I remember even reading I think it
was like Billboard magazine and people were praising this album.
They're like, oh, this album is what like, you know,
I forget what the quote was, but like this is

(13:17):
what teenagers listened to in the back of their cars
or like it was like some really intense descriptions meaning
that this is a very important album that's really going
to shake things up and also change things. And uh yeah,
I mean similar to you know, Guns n' Roses a
few years back, and then also Metallica, they was just
a buzz, you know Metallica around Master of Puppets. It

(13:40):
was like a undeniable buzz guns n' Roses with Appetite
for destruction. You couldn't deny that there was a buzz,
and you couldn't predict it. There was no way to
predict that these band. And it's funny to how all
these albums come out within like a few Master of
Puppets is in eighty six, Appetite in eighty seven, the
Black Album in ninety one, and then we have never
Mind and also ninety one, So these huge, mega selling

(14:01):
albums all come out kind of at the same you know,
like the same error almost.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
He talked to Butch Vig, who produced the album. He
said the album changed his life, but he didn't like
talking about it for a while. Why was that? And
then what changed his mind? He started talking about it again.
He talked to you about that.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
I believe, he said. When he was he went back
and worked on like a twenty or twenty fifth year
anniversary or ten or I forgot what the year was,
but some anniversary edition. But I mean everyone's different. I mean,
I you know, some people I guess get you know,
don't want to talk. I guess maybe also because of
the way that Kurk Cobain died and everything, maybe it
left like bad, like in the memories or something.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
And butch Vig produced a lot of albums by other bands,
so I'm sure that was that was part of it too.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
In fact, I'll tell you what my favorite butch Viig
productions are not Nirvana. It's actually the first two Smashing
Pumpkins albums.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, I love Sime's Dream.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Siamese Dream I think is by far but butch Vig's
best production. Yep, that's just my personal observation.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I just did an episode on My Bloody Valentine, which
I knew little to nothing about and didn't realize how
influential they were and didn't realize that, Yeah, how brilliant,
how brilliant Kevin Shields was and is and Smashing Pumpkins,
Billy Corgan heavily influenced by the sound, the guitar sound,
the production, and you could hear it in Simey's Dream.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
What's funny is I got turned onto that band? I
remember it was would have been in ninety two. I
got turned on to them, and it was through or
May no, maybe ninety three ninety three. I was reading
an interview with Vernon Reed of the band Living Color,
who I was a huge band of and I'm still
a big fan of, and he was talking about albums.
He was listening to what he mentioned, the Loveless album
by Simon Excuse Me, by Loveless by My Bloody Valentine.

(15:37):
And I remember back in the days, if there were
some CDs you had that you did not like, you
can you can go to the record store and trade
them in and get store credit. So I grabbed some
CDs I was not listening to anymore, and I traded
in for My Bloody Valentine, And at first it did
not really register. I thought it was okay, but it
didn't really I don't know there was something. I guess

(16:00):
it was because it was so different sounding than what
I was listening to. Yeah, but over the years, I've
become a massive fan of that. That's one of my
favorite albums of all time, especially of the nineties.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
I can't stop listening to Loveless, every single song on that.
It's addictive. I was telling the author about that, I said,
thank you for introducing me to this band. Yes, some
sidebars in this book that are great. Once titled Madonna
Goes Grunge. The band Candlebox signed by Madonna's label Maverick.
They got to hang out with her after a show.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yes, I believe it was. I think he's I think
Kevin Martin says that it was after a Rush show
at Madison Square Garden. If I'm not missaging, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yes.
And and I think Madonna's big quote on her suggestion
to Kevin is, oh, you know, you really got to
read to like get yourself to be like a better lyricist.
And I got to say, I'm not the biggest Madonna fan,

(16:54):
but her lyrics I don't think of really her strong.
I mean, has anyone really ever said, oh, I love
Madonna's lyrics.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Right exactly. Yeah, what a moment though, that lis'en. You
devote a chapter to how the nineties alt rock movement
had a big effect on not just the music of
the time, but fashion, politics, and even the way audiences
behaved in concert. What did the people you spoke with
that to say about how much the band's influenced politics,

(17:23):
because that was huge. MTV was was a huge influence
on young people voting in the early nineties, the ninety
two election.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, in nineteen ninety two, MTV had to think called
Rock the Vote, and it was a series of commercials
where you had people like Chris Cornell. I remember just
suggesting that people go vote. I remember going to Lollapaloosa
in nineteen ninety two and Al Jorgensen from the band Ministry,
at the end of the show brought his daughter out

(17:52):
on stage and she was very young, and she said
and he said, I forget the exact quote, but it
was like, you know, for the children of tomorrow, we
all have to vote, or something like that. And I
remember even Dave Mustain of the band Megadeth, although they're
not alternative rock, he was. He did a whole thing
in the summer where he was I think at the
Democratic Convention and he was the MTV correspondent and he

(18:13):
was like interviewing people like politicians and stuff. So MTV
was really, really was really integral in a part of
the whole process of the upcoming upcoming election, which was
Bill Clinton and also the first George Bush. And yeah,
people pointed that for swaying the election in Clinton's way

(18:36):
because they made I remember, like Bush came off looking
very old and like not hip, and Bill Clinton came
off as like a younger, more hip or with it
type candidate. So he wound up winning in a lot
of people point to MTV's influence for that. I've definitely
read that over the years.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Didn't you play saxophone on Arsenio Hall right now? The
other thing was stage diving?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Oh yes? Was the other thing crowdsurfing? I have to say, yeah,
I never crowdsurfed, and I hated crowdsurfing because I remember,
what's the difference.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Between stage diving and crowdsurfing, isn't that?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yes, stage diving because you have to go on the
stage and you jump out in the audience at least yeah,
so that that at least you see someone coming at
you so you can put up your hand. Crowdsurfing I
hated because I remember too specific actually a few specific shows.
I remember seeing Faith the More at roseland Living Color
at roseland and seeing Blind Melon a few times in
smaller venues and you were watching the audience so you

(19:33):
can't see obviously what's behind you, and someone with their
nice big Doc Martin shoe is coming behind you and
hits you, or it kicks you as hard as they
can in the back of your head so you have
no way of I remember there was at the Faith
the More show, I tried getting as close as I could,
and I lasted for me one or two songs. I
found myself at one point just watch you with my

(19:55):
hands like this because I was just bracing myself. I
was like, you know what for at this I just
went in the back. So yeah, at that point, you know,
at that point it was it was getting too popular,
even you know, it was different than seeing Faith the
More the More, where it's a thousand or two thousand people.
Then we go to Roselane, which is like, you know,
a few thousand people.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
So when did moshpitz get bag wasn't that run the
same time.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, that was I'm trying to think when I would
have the first show ever was so I mean well,
I mean mashing. Really you could say thrash metal really
brought that to the metal audience with Slayer and things
like that. I know, like Slayer shows would have mosh
pits back and also of course Anthrax had the song
called Caught in Amash, So I really you could you
could credit thrash metal for really bringing washing into rock music.

(20:42):
It wasn't really alternative alternative alternative music of the nineties.
Of course, co op to that, and I remember going
to like Fishbone shows and there was insane washing and
things like that.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Fishbone, Yeah, my roommate loved Fishbone too.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
I have never moshed in my life. I've never crowdsurfed,
I have never staged o. I just stood in the
back and watched and tried to just enjoy the music.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
And that's why you're here today. It may not be
standing here today.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
You know. Quickly. I'll just tell you I saw a
show once. It was It would have been the fall
of ninety one, just as never Mind was hitting. I
was going to Stonybrook University and there was a double
bill that played the Gymnasium of Stonybrook. It was Fishbone
headlining with Primus below them, and it was insane just
how vicious the washing and crowdsurfing was. There were people

(21:31):
that are coming out. There was one poor girl came
out on a stretcher. I don't know how injured she was,
but I mean it was just totally insane. I just
could never understand what the attraction was of that.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Greg Prato back on the podcast. His latest book is
titled Alternative for the Masses, the Nineties Alt Rock Revolution
and Oral History. A quote from Lou Barlow from Dinosaur
Junior in the book on the band covering Peter Frampton
showed me the way and it wasn't a sarcastic take
on it. Talk about how the seventies influenced a lot
of these all rock bands of the nineties.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yes, the thing I loved so much about the seventies
is the production. That's my favorite productions all the band
It seems like all the albums that I love the
most from the seventies, I just love the production. I
love the production of Physical Graffiti, never mind the ballocks,
Kiss Rock and roll Over, I think is a great production.
And what's great about those albums I just mentioned it

(22:23):
sounds like just a band on a stage with just
everything is micd and you just let it rip and
just indust record it. And that's totally what you get
with a lot of the nineties productions, or even it
starred in the late eighties with we mentioned Dinosaur Junior,
then as we go on Sonic Youth and you know
bands like that, it's more of a real production. It's
not like that horrible late eighties where that drum, that

(22:45):
horrible drum gated sand that it's like a cannon, Yeah,
cannon going off that it's just so dated and bad sounding.
I mean, as much as I love Living Color, I
go back and listening to Vivid, and even Vivid sometimes
has that bad drum thing, which is a shame because
Will Calhoun the drum in Living Color is absolutely phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Absolutely and that album Vivid from stuck to finish. So
that's that's a perfect album.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah. You know what's funny is they put out an
album that tends to get overlooked in nineteen ninety three
called Stain, and that's my favorite Living Color album. It's
a very dark sounding album and I love when bands
get dark like I love of course Van Halen fair warning.
We talked about in the past.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Stayn has Type on it, right, yes, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Type is on their second album, which is called Times Up.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Okay, times Up, that's right.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes, Stain has the big hit on that was called
was called leave It Alone.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Oh yes, great song.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah. And then and then they had a song on
it that should have been a hit, but unfortunately the video,
like what I talk about in the book, it wasn't
even me that says it's it's other people. What's funny
with alternative rock, It was definitely kind of a scaling
back with like you know, the shows were in clubs
and things like that. The production was more raw. But
one thing that never got one thing that didn't change

(24:00):
the production for music videos. It were still these hundreds
of thousands of dollars with these stupid directors thinking I
mean not all of them, but like certain directors thinking
that they're making mini movies. So anyway, so to get
back to living color for the song nothing this like,
the video just wasn't appealing. It wasn't that good. So

(24:21):
the singles never did anything and never took off. It
may have been a hit in like other countries, but
it should have been a massive hit here and it
just never took off. And I say it could be
in doing part to the video not being very good.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, because that's another great song. And I do remember
rock Radio playing the single on there.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yes, yeah, should have should should have been a hit
in the album Stain should have been massive too. I
love that album to this day. I love that album.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Very experimental band. I saw them at Toad's place in
New Haven and they were doing some crazy shit man
where people were There were some people that are expecting,
like when are we going to hear all the popular stuff?
And they were just they would go into these long
instrumental jams like fusion and stuff like that, which I
appreciate it. I loved it. And they're still they're still together.
I mean there's still.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
I saw them two years ago on a bill they
were They went on first and then the band Extreme
was headlining. And I'll share a secret with you and
everyone listening to this, Okay, Living Color, Blue Away Extreme
ooh yeah, So I'm just gonna I'm just gonna put
it out there. I was so amazed it was. They
were so phenomenal. They look great, sounded great, the set

(25:27):
list was great. I highly recommend people go see Living Color.
They're as good now as they were back when I
saw them in the early nineties.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Their basis, Doug Wimbish is lives right near me here
in Hartford, Connecticut.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Okay, Yeah. Corey Glover is one of the most underrated
singers ever. He to this day, and I've even told him,
I said, you're singing now better than like you ever have.
He really I put him up there. Like I talk
about in the book, there's a whole chapter about singers,
and the part of the reason why I wanted to
do that chapter is I wanted to you know, of

(26:00):
course I love Chris Cornell, but it seems like everyone
was like, oh yeah, the nineties alternative rock singers, Oh yeah,
Chris Cornell was the best. He absolutely was the best.
But so is Jeff Buckley, so is b York, so
is Shannon Hoon, so is Corey Glover, so is Lane Staley.
The list goes on and on.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
YEP agreed handful of producers who played a big role
in some of the decades standout albums, one being Steve Albini.
You were one of the last people to interview him
before he passed away. He produced in Utero from Nirvana.
Who are some of the other big producers and what
made them stand out the nineties sound? We were just
talking about the eighties sound. What made those guys stand out?

(26:40):
And did they capture the raw sound the raw energy
of these bands?

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Right? Well, one gentleman that I indued for the book
who's very underrated producer is Paul Keith excuse me, Paul Q. COLDERI.
He produced Holes Live through This, but then he produced
great albums by the band called Morphine, who's one of
my favorite. I absolutely love that band. They never really
get the credit that they deserve. He also produced the

(27:07):
first radio Head album, actually I think I think co
produced it. The album called Pablo Honey that has the
song Creep on it that everyone knows sure that he
pointed out, has over a billion streams on Spotify, which
probably is equal to it like about five five or
like ten dollars in probably royalties at this point.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Right. Yeah, but he's an underrated producer because you don't
hear that name a lot.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, you didn't. Really, you don't really hear
that much about him, so yeah, I was able to
get him for this book. Butch Vig, of course is
is a is a fantastic producer. But I'm always going
to say Sime's Dream is his uh top top production.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
It.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
I mean, of course never Mind is great, but Siamese
Dream is just a fantastic production.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
It is the guitar tone, absolutely Fantasmic's guitar. Yeah, we
talked about my Bloody Valentine. They are part of the
shoegaze genre, and you do get into some of the
other subgenres from the nineties. All country is one interesting genre.
What are some of the other ones that you know?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's funny it seems like with alternative rocket, all these
different subgenres. You start having bands like Rage against the
Machine that starts merging rap with stuff. But as I
talk about in the book, there was a band that
predated them called Urban Dance Squad that tends to also
get overlooked, and they were really the first band to
truly merge rap and also rock music. And I'll be honest,

(28:32):
it's gonna be very possibly controversial comment. I prefer Urban
Dance Squad over Rage Against the Machine. Especially Urban Dance
Squad's first album, which is called Mental Flaws for the Globe.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I highly recommend if you like Rage Against the Machine
check out that album. That album is fantastic, and I
personally prefer it moreover. I mean, of course I respect
Rage Against the Machine, very very original band, Tom Morello,
of course, phenomenal guitarist, highly highly original. But I prefer
Urban Dance Squad.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Urban Dance Squad. I gotta be honest with you, I
don't think I've ever listened to an Urban Dance Squad song.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
They had a hit song in nineteen ninety ninety one
called Deeper Shade of Soul.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Oh, I must have heard that one.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, I saw them open up for a Living Color
in nineteen ninety one in early ninety one.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Was there a video for it?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yes, there was. It's a video of like people skateboarding
in a pool.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, wow.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sure once you hear
it you'll say, oh yeah, Now I remember that it
was played pretty heavily for like a month or so
on good old MTV.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Wow. So what are some of the other subgenres from
the nineties that well, I.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Mean, really the top I mean, you already said shoegaze,
that to me is definitely high up there. You know.
One thing I just to viewer off for a second.
One thing that was great about doing this book too,
is I went back and listened to albums or even
heard some albums that I maybe didn't or wasn't that
familiar with. Like, I went back and heard them. And
there was an album that I loved and teen ninety

(30:00):
four by the band Lush called Split, and I had
not heard that in decades, and I went back and
listened to it and I fell in love with it again.
It's one of my favorite nineties albums. I love that album,
and that band is one of the leading shoegaze type bands.
Of course, My Bloody Valentine is probably the top top
shoegaze band. Yeah, the name, the name shoegaze was given

(30:21):
to that genre as kind of an insult. It was
from a British journalist or it was someone or a
British manager. I freak, I don't know, excuse me. It
was a British record label person that said, all these bands,
all they do is they just they're strumming their guitars
and just looking down at their shoes. They don't even
care about the audience that you know, which you know,
I guess that that was the reaction I guess to

(30:42):
what you know was going on at the time with
all the like big arena rock type of things.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
You know, Yeah, shoegaze or dream pop is the other.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Pop dream pop yet? And then of course you also
we also have britpop we can't forget right, which is
of course Oasis and Blurr in those bands which I'll
tell you I never really connected with. I don't know
if it's because I'm here in the States, but but
I mean probably not, because there's plenty of other British
bands I love, So I don't know brit pop Oasis,
I was into the verb for a while. That was

(31:11):
a band I was into for a while, but yeah,
Oasis went right over my head for some reason. I
don't know why.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
What would be an example of an alt country band.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Wilco is usual pointy two Uncle Tupelo, I think is
another band that's listed again. It's funny, that's one.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
What makes it alt country?

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Well, I mean, I guess it's it had country. I
had like a country twang. But maybe you're it maybe
fit well, you know, listen If you go back and
listen to some of Nirvana unplugged, it's not it's not country,
but it's definitely folk, right right. Mark the Great Mark Lannigan,
late Great Mark Landigan, some of his solo stuff had

(31:54):
a little bit of a country thing to it. He
put out a great album in ninety four called I
guess called Whiskey in the Holy Ghost, which really I
should know since I did a bloody book about Mark Lanigan.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
But great book.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
See, that's the bad thing about putting out so many books.
You tend to forget song titles and things that go
in certain books.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
It's one of your eleven appearances, people can find it.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, but certain alternative bands had country leanings in it.
So maybe listening to wil Coe after you hear Nirvana unplugged,
there wasn't that much of a stretch, And maybe that's
the thing that connects the dots a little bit.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
You could say, how about female rockers in the nineties,
A lot of female rockers who's in Vega Lennis Morris said,
just off the top of my head, cranberries, yes, lush, lush, Yeah.
What was cool about the female rockers that came out
during that period? Too, was they weren't just pretty faces
and you just you know, throw guitar, strap, guitar on

(32:53):
the shoulder and let's see, you know, let's just do
the best we can. These are badass musicians.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah. Well, I mean the one thing too that you know,
look back in the late eighties when you looked at
rock music for you know, by and large, especially when
it came to like metal, it was almost exclusively just men,
white men. You know. Then you get to the nineties
alternative rock and it's you know, it's men, women, different races,
you know, it's like all which to me was a

(33:18):
throwback to the late sixties early seventies when you had
bands like Santanas, Line the Family Stone, which was great.
So that's what also made it very unique.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Liz Fair was another one from the nineties.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
There were some fantastic female performed ex excuse me, there
were some fantastic female alternative artists like b York was phenomenal.
You had also PJ. Harvey who was fantastic. She was great.
Lush again, I love Lush. That's one of my favorites
from especially the nineties. There were two singers I think

(33:50):
there was well, the lead singer in My Bloody Valentine
was a woman. There were actually two females in that band.
So oh and then you know, and again by going
back to the book and me getting reconnected with some
bands I hadn't heard a long time. A band called Helium,
which is a very underrated band. That's a great band
as well. And yeah, that that's a female fronted band,

(34:13):
A band called a band called also Royal Trucks. Yeah,
influenced by the Velvet Underground, you could say, they're also
very a very cool, unique band from from the time.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
There's a story in the book Royal Trucks blew an
entire advance on drugs. Jennifer Hirama's the vocalists. Yeah, and
what did she tell you about that? That's a true story?

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, well there was most of it.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I was gonna say. One thing that I did with
this book is there were a few stories over the
years that were never really confirmed. So yeah, I was.
I asked her about that. That was a famous story
in the Alt Rock Underground that Royal Trucks blew a
whole album advance on drugs. And it's partly true and

(34:59):
part it is true, but it wasn't like a huge
million dollar advance. It was not a lot of money,
but still, I mean it was a quote unquote album advanced.
I guess it is true. But then there was also
one of the cool interviews I did for this book
was Ian Mackay from the band Fugazi, and he also
set the record straight. There was a famous story over

(35:21):
the years that people always talked about that supposedly he
and Fugazi turned down a million dollar album deal offer
from Ahmed Ertigan, and he talked about that, and that
wasn't necessarily true. One thing he did talk about which
I never knew, there was another label that came along,
dream Works, that offered him also the Kings to the Kingdom,

(35:42):
and he said no because they had their own label
and they were totally Their label is called Discord Records,
and they were able to call the shots and be
in control of everything. And they were like, Nah, we
just want to do our thing. We don't need you guys.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Now, this story about Google Doll's name, I've never heard
this before. I don't know if it's been out there,
but there is a story behind it. The song is
about somebody. Johnny Resnick wrote it about somebody an MTV VJ.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yes, it is about Alan Hunter.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Johnny Resliy kind of crush on. Wow, who knew? Do
you want to tell the story? Are you gonna yes?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
No, I'll say it's actually Kennedy, Yeah, the VJ Kennedy,
who now is best known for her political TV hosting stuff. Right,
what's funny? My parents watch you know, political stuff. I personally,
I'm not into politics at all, but they were very
They're like, oh, yeah, you know, we know how we
like her. She's on the TV doing interviews, blah blah blah,

(36:43):
Like yeah, you know, back in the nineties she was
all about like alternative music, and she's like, oh, I
didn't know that, so now.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
She figured it out. He didn't say anything, but she
figured it out and then ran into him or talk
to him on the phone. No, she ran into him
and said that's about me, isn't it? Yes?

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Exactly? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
And then he was married, wasn't he?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yes, he was, he was married, but he he felt
a deep attraction to her and they hung out and
but she, you know, didn't want to, I guess, become
his girlfriend because he because she knew that he was
actually married. So it just wound up ending, But then
he wound up and wrote that song, and yees, she
heard the song. I think she heard it as like
a advanced cassette, and she heard the lyrics, and she

(37:26):
put two and two together, and she confronted him, and
about ten years ago she put out she put out
her own book, and she talked a little bit and that.
But yeah, I wanted I when I spoke to her
for this book, I wanted her to retell the story.
And I think she even expanded a little bit on it,
maybe included a few things she didn't talk about previously.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
There's a particular line in the song, like this is
the line. Maybe for a while there was a specific
line that really had her.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
I'll be honest, I was never a big fan of
that song, So I can't really I can't. I bet
the lyrics I can't tell. I mean, I could recount
the lyrics to the song Galaxy from the band Blind Melon,
but not so much the song name by the band
Googoo Donalds.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Same here, right, Galaxy is a great song. Yes, Chapter
nineteen titled Second Waivers. At one point, we start to
see these bands popping up and they're jumping on the Bandwagon.
You mentioned it by the mid nineties, right, that's is
that when it starts to really start to happen. And
who are some of the bands who took the most
heat for this?

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, about ninety four to ninety five is when we
start getting some very obvious bands that are just kind
of like not really see. The thing that I love
so much about the early nineties bands is they were
all doing something unique. Nine Schnails didn't sound did not
sound like Smashing Pumpkins, Smashing Pumpkins, didn't sound like blind Melon.

(38:47):
Blind Melon didn't sound like Primus, on and on and on.
At a certain point, you start getting bands that are
shamelessly ripping off Nirvana, shamelessly ripping off Pearl Jam. Where
you have these bands where the music sounds like Nirvana
but the vocalist sounds like Laane Staley vice versa. Like
stuff is weird stuff going on? I mean the band
that comes to mind automatically is the band Bush that

(39:09):
got a lot of heat. But music is so awful
at this time that when I hear a Bush song now,
I'm like, yeah, it's actually not that bad. I can
a Bush song from nineteen ninety four to nineteen ninety
five is a pleasure to hear. Then most of the
mainstream rock music that I tend. You know that I
hear on commercials and stuff nowadays.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
It's so true. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
And then also you have to give Gavin Rossdale credit.
He wrote all those songs himself. I'mlike, now, where you
have all these Schlemiel's hiring like fifty professional songwriters to
write one stupid song.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
You know, I always love stone Table Pilots, but they
were kind of umped in with that, right they were
jam ripoff and I just.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
I will give stun Table Pilots credit. Their first album
I was never really a big fan of, which is
called core. It's very very derivative. But to their credit,
from the second album on, they totally ditched the whole. Like,
for instance, Scott Wiland was a great singer, but on
the first album he's I think too much Eddie vetterish,

(40:10):
But from the second album on, he's not sounding anything
at all like like Vetter.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
They became their own band from that.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yes, exactly. Yes, so Stuntile Pilots, I don't at the time,
they definitely caught a lot of heat, but I wouldn't
even put them in like the ripoff type bands, which
then of course leads the late nineties early two thousands,
which the net the net year of it is uh
nickelback and also bands like that, Ah God, Jesus horrible. Yeah,

(40:40):
just yeah, I mean yeah, I'll admit I once did
interview the singer from Creed and he was a very
nice chap on the phone. But that's that. Yeah, yeah,
but which is not a fan of their music, not
a fan of yeah, just uh didn't do it for me.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
I love the stories in the book. Like we mentioned
the name by Google dolls. Just behind that, there was
a song from the movie Jerry Maguire that inspired an
ever Clear classic. Ever Clear one of my favorite bands
that come out of that period too. By the way,
what was this the song? Now?

Speaker 2 (41:12):
It's a Bruce Springsteen song. It's something garden, is it?
Do you know what? It's called? Secret, Secret Garden? There
we go, Okay, yeah, yeah, he's uh he art. Alex
Zachus tells a really good story that he had a
bit of writer's block and he was trying desperately. He
he kept trying to come up with a follow up

(41:33):
album to their big hit album, and he kept submitting
it to the record label, and there is one guy
he kept working with, I think it was the A
and R guy, and he keeps saying like, it's not there,
it's not there yet, it's not there yet. Trust me,
you're gonna put if we put it out now, it'll
do okay, but it's not gonna do what you wanted
to do. So then Art had a very bad thing
of writer's block and just started really doubting himself. And

(41:55):
he was in New York City by himself, walking the street,
was very very depressed, and he went to see the
movie called Jerry Maguire and there was that Springsteen song
in it, and something about that song inspired him. And
then he went back and he talked about I forgot
what song he wrote her songs, but it inspired him,
and finally he wrote songs that he submitted, and the

(42:17):
A and R guy was like, good and yes, now
we finally have an album worthy of a follow up
and everything.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
So they had a big run. They did.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
They did that, and also again give him credit, I'm
pretty sure he wrote all those songs himself, or at
least most of those songs himself.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
So yeah, you know, the death of Kirk Cobain April
nineteen ninety four. Did that moment alter the course of
all rock? Was it the beginning of the end? Or
was it already on the decline and going to commercial
at that point?

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Well, it's impossible to say. We don't know what would
have happened if Kurt lived. I mean, there's some great
quotes in the book. I think one person hits the
nail of the head is Craig Wedren, the singer from
the band Shutter to Think. He says, when you have
people like Kurt Cobain, or Jim Morrison, or Jimi Hendrix
or Janice Choplin, when these people die at a young age.

(43:12):
I mean, now I'm just adding my own thing. I'm
not putting words in his mouth. But he made a
comment or a point similar to this that when these
people die at a young age, they die at their peak.
They're you know, they're they're the most attractive, they've put
out nothing but good music, and then you know, they're
just that's the image we always have of them in

(43:34):
our head. There's no chance of them putting out their
van Halen three perhaps, you know, or there's no chance
of them putting out their music from the elder or
their hot space or their you know, Lulu, you know there's.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
No or just aging aging.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Or falling off the stage or you know, getting plastic
surgery that doesn't go well, like all these things that
happen to people as they get older and they get
crucified for you know, in the oppress. So, you know,
when Kurt Cobain died when he did, Nirvana was still
hugely popular. But what's funny too, that tends to get forgotten.

(44:11):
And I remember this as a fact, and Bill Gould
from Faith No More confirmed confirmed this in the book.
Nirvana was kind of looked at as not on the decline,
but they definitely had peaked at that point. So if
Kurt Cobain didn't die when he did, there's always a
chance that Nirvana, who know, maybe their next album wouldn't
have Maybe they could have possibly declined, but you'd like

(44:32):
to think not because they did have a pretty huge
you know following still and they were lined up they
were going to be on Mallapalooza that summer, so they
were still very much in demand. But I mean, just
to put things in perspective, I know, Pearl Jam at
that point was much bigger, like they put out verses
and that I think set the record for like most
copies sold, and it was selling millions and millions of

(44:54):
albums in the first week exactly so. But but over time,
of course has gone to be, you know, probably the
hugest rock band of the nineties.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
So look what happened with Pearl Jam in the second
half of the nineties. Though they're popularity faded, which I.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Think you's to say, the.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Mainstream audience grows tired of a certain genre and they
move on to the next thing, whereas fans like us
will stick with a band, but not everybody does, and.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Then something else you never know. I mean, I'm a
huge Smashing Pumpkins fan, just their first two albums. If
you told me after Siami's Dream and how much I
love them at that point that yeah, from their next
album on, it's going to sound like a different band.
You're not gonna like it. I just never liked the
which to me, Melancholy is the hugest album they've ever
put out, but it just never ever did it for me.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
It just sounded I am with you.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yeah, they're singing this, I don't like his singing on that.
The production. I don't like it sounds like a double
album that you're it's been a single album. It sounded
like it was all yeah, it just it just lacked
the special magic of Sign's dreaming and even Gish I
think is better than that.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
So with you on that, Greg, yeah, that I remember
there was there were songs that I could pick and
choose and really like nineteen seventy nine I would say
is probably my favorite.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
I would say if Melancholy was a single album and
if you had also Butcher Vig producing, I think that
album would have been a thousand times better. Yeah, And
then again, that album has sold zillions of copies.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, that was like ninety five, ninety six, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Thirty five. Yeah, but then yes, but like what my
point is, so yeah, So who's to say that Nirvana's
next album wouldn't have sucked? You know, because I would
have never guessed because how much I love Smashing Pumpkins
in nineteen ninety four that a year later I just
would not like their next album. But the thing for
me personally, yes, Kurt Cobaine's death did definitely affect me,

(46:48):
but the rock death of the nineties that affected me
the most by far, is definitely Shannon Huon.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
We've talked about it many times.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Tellen really connected with me more than most of the
other bands, more so than even Nirvana. We all have
our bands that we connect with, you know, just on
a personal level and also musical level. And Blind Melon
and also Shannonhan was that band for me and I
was really expecting big things for them, and it just
it to this day. You know. It's I hate when

(47:18):
musicians die young, or just of course when just about
anyone dies young. But Shannon Hoon to me, I really
wanted to I would have loved to have seen what
they would have done on the next few albums, because
that Soup album is probably my favorite album of all
the nineties, all rock albums.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Do you know how much of a fan I am?
And you wrote two books.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yes, yeah, the first one is called A Devil on
One Shoulder and the second one is just merely called Shannon.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
And you've gotten pretty close to the guys in the
band because of it.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah. Actually, Christopher Thorne just texted me yesterday. I sent
him a copy of the book and I interviewed Roger
Stevens for this book and he Christopher thanked me for
put there's a picture of them in that, and there's
of Shannon and also Blind Melon music throughout, So that
was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Well, I guess it answers my question. This is the
last question, is what do you think? There are a
lot of underrated or forgotten bands that you shed light
on in this book, which is great. If you had
to pick one, who's the most underrated band of the nineties,
is it Blind Melon?

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (48:18):
And no, because underrated. I mean that first album sold
millions and millions of copies. So you know, Blind Melon
is better known than say Morphine, or they're better known
than Greatly Buffalo, or they're better known than the band Slint.
But all those bands are just mentioned are all fantastic.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
So if you had to pick one the most underrated
that really didn't get much attention and should have.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Hmm, let's think about that for a second. Yeah, you know,
like ah, I mean, it's it's easy for me to
say Blind Melon, but the band that I love that
I still listen to this album to this day and
it's so original and it's definitely not for the masses.

(49:00):
I understand why it was not a huge album and
the band was not huge, but still it should have
on like it should have been a perfect world? Is
the band Shudder to Think?

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, tell me about these guys. I've never heard anything
from them.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
They put out an album called Pony Express Record, and
I remember I bought it in late nineteen ninety four
because I was such a big Smashing Pumpkins fanatic at
that point. I would read interviews or concert reviews and
stuff and Shudder to Think was affiliated with Smashing Pumpkins.
They played shows together. I think they opened for Smashing Pumpkins.
So it is at the point that like i'd walk

(49:34):
in Tower Records and I'd see their CD. I'm like, oh, yeah,
I remember them through Smashing Pumpkins. Maybe I'll check this out.
So I remember buying it. It's one of those albums
that you hear it once or twice you're like, eh,
I don't know about this, but similar to Blind Melon Soup,
the more you hear it, the more you get attached
to it, and then you realize how fantastic it is

(49:54):
and how totally original it is and how timeless it is.
Matt Pinfield once had a great description of them that
they sound like Sheer Heart Attack era Queen.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
So it's very difficult to It was art rock. It
was that Sheer heart Attack Eraic Queen. They came out
of Discord Records, which is you know, Fugazi, so it's
also post hardcore. It's all these different genres that they
were doing. And the singer is a fantastic singer. He
can sing up way high, he can do all these

(50:27):
different styles of music. Similar almost. I mean, they don't
sound like Faith No More, but maybe similar to Faith
No More, Angel Dust and also the album King for
a Day, Full for a Lifetime that it's all. It's
an album has a bunch of different styles on it.
That's what makes them so unique.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Midlife Crisis love that song. So that's cool. Though. I
got a few bands that I want to give a
listen to now, suggestions from you. One band we didn't
talk about it at all, which is one of my
favorite bands to come out of the nineties, Collective Soul.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
That's a band I actually interviewed the singer for song Facts,
and I was debating, like should I put in because
oh yeah, the thing something that I kind of enjoyed
with this book that I made it a point to do.
The last two chapters are the stories behind some of
the classic alt rock albums of the nineties, and also

(51:19):
stories behind some of the classic alt rock songs. And
it's from either the actual it's it's from an actual
band member or a video director or someone that's somehow
affiliated with that album or that song or that band.
And in some instances, like I may have already had
an interview done for like song Facts the website, but

(51:41):
I'd say about ninety percent of this book is all
original new interviews, but for some of them, I was
able to reuse quotes like that. And I interviewed the
singer from Collective Soul, and I was on the fence.
I was like, hmm, should I put him talking about
Shine in the book? And just due to time contraits,
space constraints, I had to ax that.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
So okay, Yeah, that to me one of the most
underrated bands, although they were they were huge in the nineties,
but I still love them, and I would put Dosage
among the best albums of the decade.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Are you familiar with the album Mighty Joe Moon by
Grant Lee Buffalo, No, that's a great album you should
check out, Are you okay? And then we also talked
about urban Dance Squad, Mental Flaws for the Globe yep.
And also Sebado's Bake Sale is a fantastic album as well.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Sebado's Bake Sale.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Okay, Yeah, Sebado is Lou Barlow. He's also in the
band Dinosaur Junior. He's in both bands.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Sebado is his kind of solo project that he sings
and plays. He plays guitar and Sebado plays bass in
Dinosaur Junior.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Wow. All right, So the book Alternative for the Masses
the nineties Alt Rock Revolution in Oral History out now
goodbye wherever books are sold, right, Yeah, absolutely look for
Engineer's Bookstore. Look for at Gene independent bookstore. If you
want to find your nearest independent book store, go to
bookdown rock dot com. Where can people find you online? Greg?

(53:07):
Before we make this announcement about the next book.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yes, go to x dot com slash Greg Prato writer.
That's always a good place. I'm always posting my latest
interviews and articles and book and I was gonna say
book ideas, but no, I keep those hush hush but
book release dates and things like that. So yeah, I
say that's probably the best way. And of course it's
go to Amazon and go to the book section, do

(53:30):
a search for Greg Prado, and you will be assaulted
by a huge amount of books that you could choose from,
which I think is perfect for the holiday season, don't you.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Eric, Absolutely, And if you're a sports fan, yes, you've
got some books on New York sports. You got the Jets.
You have the book on the Islanders, the Mets, the Yankees,
the Mets, the Yanks.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Yes, I'll tell you it's brutal being.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
A seven Jets. Oh and then I ended up getting
Aaron Rodgers, which I was teasing you about. Now I've
got it.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
I was gonna say, and you get the Aaron Rodgers.
That's good.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the poor Jets. The question is
will they go oh in seventeen do you think?

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I hope they do because I want them to totally
clean house, get rid of their head coach, get rid
of everything. I want Woody Johnson to even sell the team.
But I don't think. I don't think that's ever gonna
happen anytime soon because he's making too much money. But
now they have to clean house. They have to just
start from scratch, that that whole organization is just a
complete embarrassment.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
You heard it here, folks. Greg Greg Prauto, fan of
the Jets, wants them to go in seventeen.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yes, because that's the only way that's gonna I think
create a big change. I think, yeah, I think.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
By the way, this new book is from our friends
at Motor Books.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yes, indeed it is. Yeah. I want to give a
shout to them too. They did an absolute, absolutely phenomenal
job with formatting it. The photos are fantastic, excellent, excellent
jobs to those gentlemen. I give you all a random.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Applause absolutely, Steve Roth and the guys at Motor Books.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yes, superb. Thank you guys, preaching to.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
The choir on that one. Yeah, so let's talk about
the big news.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Yes, the big news.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
What's the next book?

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Okay? Me, Like a lot of people were very upset
by the great Ace Fairlies passing. And after he passed,
I realized, you know, I interviewed Ace a lot of
times over the last fifteen years or so. So I
went back and looked at the interviews and I realized,
you know, I have all these interviews where he talks

(55:34):
about pretty much all phase of his career. Because like,
although he'd be promoting a solo album. I would always
ask some questions about Kiss and about even his personal
life and his hobbies and things like that, and he
was always a great interview. He was always very honest
and very very friendly, a great, great guy. So I thought,
you know what if as a tribute to Ace, I

(55:56):
put together a book that compiles all the interviews I did,
and also do interviews with some people, some very well
known rock people that were fans of Ace and them
talking about what made him so great, as great and
also influential, because I think you'd probably agree with me, Eric,
along with probably Eddie Van Hall and Ace Frehley, has

(56:16):
to be two or three right behind. As far as
how many people he was a huge influence on.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Absolutely, yeah, how many I'm so influential. How many guitar
has picked up a guitar because they watched Ace freely
or listened to them or saw him on that a
live album cover. Right.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
So, the next book, which I'm gonna be Rush releasing,
I'm gonna I'm gonna put this out through my own company,
Greg Predo, writer, is called I'm Reading It, So don't
get the title wrong. Talk to me conversations with Ace
Freeley by Greg Prada.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Oh man, that's so cool, Greg, Yeah, that's just I
love Ace. I love Ace, love Kiss, and I think
that's great that you're doing that because it's going to
give us the story in his words. And that's interesting
because I did a tribute episode just this week. I
put it out and how many times did I hear
brutally honest, honest, told it like it is, but also

(57:14):
friendly guy, very nice guy. There's a picture of the picture.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
It's the picture of me and Ace when I did
an interview with him back in two thousand and nine.
I don't if you could see that.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yeah, that's when Anomaly came out in nine, right, Yes, yeah, yeah,
I love that album. That's probably his most personal, deeply
personal album.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
He was he was kind of have to sign this
to me, he says too, Greg rock on Ace feeling
that was nice to him that he signed that for me.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Ace Ace man one of a kind. I'm still reeling
and I'm just listening to nothing but a solo and Kiss.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah, you know, you know it's it's definitely hit me
the same way when of course Eddie van Halen passed
away Neil part you know, it's sad that we're just
at the age now that these guys are getting old
and it's just they just sadly part of life.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
What's different from Eddie with Ace was as a journalist.
I'm sure you'll agree. I mean, Ace was a guy
who could give great interviews and didn't mind doing interviews.
Edie was a little shy, didn't want to do that
kind of thing. And I think for Ace that helped
him a lot, kept him in the spotlight. He always
enjoyed talking about and he and again told it like

(58:19):
it is he did. So people keep an eye out
for that and just do what I do. I will
go to Amazon and I signed up. I clicked on
the what is it the follow Greg Prado link? Yes, Amazon,
So that there you go. All right, Greg, thanks man.
We will we'll look forward to it. We'll have you
back on for that Ace book.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
I hope great.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah cool. We'll share some stories from inside
that one. Greg, thanks man.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Thanks Eric.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
That's it. It's in the books.

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