The Cure: From Three Imaginary Boys To Gothic Rock Legends [Episode 318]

A deep dive into The Cure's discography with author Matthew Davis as he sheds light on their iconic music and enduring impact.

Purchase a copy of The Cure: Every Album, Every Song in the US

Purchase a copy of The Cure: Every Album, Every Song in the UK

Read Matthew Davis's blog

Follow Matthew Davis:
Facebook
Bluesky

----------
 
BookedOnRock.com
 
The Booked On Rock Store
 
The Booked On Rock YouTube Channel
 
Follow The Booked On Rock with Eric Senich:
BLUESKY
FACEBOOK
INSTAGRAM
TIKTOK
X
 
Find Your Nearest Independent Bookstore
 
Contact The Booked On Rock Podcast: [e-mail]
 
The Booked On Rock Music: “Whoosh” by Crowander / “Last Train North” & “No Mercy” by TrackTribe

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From three imaginary boys to gothic rock legends. We explored
the discography of The Cure. Next on Booked on Rocks.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Rock and Roll, I mean I leave you you're reading.
Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll rock.
I totally booked.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast
for those about to read and rock. We have a
first time guest on the podcast, Matthew Davis. Here's the
author of The Cure, Every album, every song. It's part
of Sonic Bond's on Track series. Matthew, Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello, Thanks having me.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Always good to talk to a fellow Cure fan. Always
loved talking about the Cure. When did you become a fan?

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Ah? Well, this nineteen ninety six. So going back to
Fairways now, when I was ratherly young, I had was
first intrigued by I spoke there was a girl school
who I fancied and she liked them, so that was
when I first heard of them. I listened to him

(01:06):
a bit back then and didn't really get into it.
Was more of a sort of a dirt head, sort
of metal head kind of guy at the time, so
I didn't really get into alternative stuff that much. And
then a couple of years later, I go another try.
I didn't quite sync in, and then I saw there's
a TV showdown here called Rage that plays music videos
all night, and they had did like a punk rock special,

(01:27):
and afterwards they played all the Cure videos from the
start up into wild mood swings and I taped that
was by accident, and I watched it after the punk
special and I thought, Okay, that's cool. Then I watched
it again and then again and then again, and that
was kind of my inn And from then I started
buying more of the CDs and just Yeah became obsessed

(01:49):
very quickly, really, and they pretty much instantaneously became one
of my favorite bands of all time, all my actual
favorite band of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
And when you talk about the Carry, you got to
talk about Robert Smith. He's the the Cure. This is
what you write here in the book. The Cure is
the result of a dreamy boy who created a world
of his own, and we often like to take a
trip into that world. Give us a brief background of
Robert and how The Cure is formed.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Early versions of the group back go back to the
mid seventies. I mean, the band that we came to
know as The Cure dates back to nineteen seventy six.
So Robert Smith was always there. He was always playing guitar.
He wasn't the singer to start with. He didn't I
really wanted to be the singer at first. But Michael
Dempsey and Lowell Tolhurst the rhythm section. They were there,

(02:35):
and Paul now Pearl was the lead guitarist who did
three different stints over the history of the band.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Pearl Thompson, that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
And started out playing covers and stuff like that, as
pretty much all musicians do. I did it myself too,
just learning the ropes, you know, learning how to learning
about structure and things like that, and learning how to
perform in front of people. And then they became the
Condens was easy Cure at a certain point because that

(03:06):
was one of Lowell's songs. They picked it out of
a hat, and then eventually rober didn't like it sound
too hippish, so you took Easy off and to put
the on there because that was kind of the thing
to do at the time, you know, using the definite article,
and it stuck. That was about nineteen seventy seven. I
think it's a bit hard to pick the actual beginning

(03:27):
of the Q or so to speak, because they sort
of had that slow formation and they tend to state
nineteen seventy eight as their birth year. Soon verses of
the band were around for a couple of years before that.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, and then the first album they were signed to
the label and released an album in the UK only.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, yeah, there were a version of it did come
out overseas shortly after that. But Three Imaginary Boys their
first record that was released overseas as Boys Don't Cry,
with a slight different track list that's I've Got That
I came out stun Records over here, actually had a
better track listing because they didn't get to chooser songs

(04:07):
on the first record. Their manager and producer at the time,
he just took it upon himself to sequence the songs,
and he chose some of the less strong material that
they had laying around, and Robert wasn't very happy with that,
So Boys Don't Cry swapped out some of the weakest
stuff for some of the other non album singles, like
Boys Don't Cry itself, which wasn't even on the record
to start with, and it's a stronger representation of their

(04:32):
early material anyways.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
And the Cure sound that's so familiar to many, that's
not what we're here on this album. It's a very
different side. It is new wave. It's kind of post punk.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
M yeah, kind of scrappy, literate post punk kind of sound.
It's a bit Thinness is fairly succinct, which is something
The Cure had always known for being. Later they got
in and got out pretty quickly with their songs, but
I mean there are still the voices there, and they're
starting to touch upon the kind of themes and sounds

(05:03):
that it would later to greater effect. But a lot
of it's Yeah, it's a very formative record, but they're
only twenty years old when it came out.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
And Robert wasn't a big fan of the album, and
we know why because he had no creative control over it.
But it's interesting he's always kept boys Don't Cry, and
that's a song that's he's kept in the setlist from
the start, so he definitely has an affinity for that song.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, that's right, and I think that's the second most
played song out of the whole lot. I mean, partly
becaus are so old, obviously, but also, yeah, it's it's
been proved a really popular song. It's found a lot
of use over the years in various formats. It's been
a bit of a touchstone bit of it's of old
rock classic. Yeah, he's otherwise downplayed that material, but as

(05:47):
you would, I mean, these are songs he wrote that
he was in his teens. I mean most of us
who look back at the person we were then and
go like, yeah, okay, that guy had no idea what
he was doing, So it's absolutely understandable he would feel
that way.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Second album. You lead the chat on this album, which
is nineteen eighty seventeen seconds with a quote from Robert
He says, I knew exactly what I wanted to do
with seventeen seconds. I knew exactly how I wanted it
to sound, and I didn't want anyone to interfere with that.
It features the single of Forest. This is the beginning
of Robert Smith's Cure that we know, and it's also

(06:19):
the debut appearance by a very important member of the band,
which is bassist Simon Gallup, who Cure fans know how
important he is to this lineup, but the average fan
may not know. But he is essential to this lineup.
Talk about how the writing of this album began in
the aftermath of a Newcastle gig in October of nineteen

(06:40):
seventy nine.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, well, I was a bit surprised myself to go
back and read about that. So essentially, Robert got in
a fight with a few businessmen in a hotel and
got beaten up and went back to his hotel room
and wrote most of the lyrics for the album in
one sitting, and then when they got home, down with
guitar and his sister's organ and started putting together the

(07:03):
music for it, and he already had a fair idea
of how one of the next records to sound. Their
bass player at the time, Michael Dempsey, wasn't a big
fan of it. He was always a more note player,
you know, he was. He wasn't into the sparse sound
that Robert wanted, because you know, what rob was pushing
for is everything to be more simplified, pushed back and

(07:26):
more spacious, and Michael didn't really like that sound. So
they kind of edged him out and brought in Simon Gallup.
As you said, who's the other mainstay of the Cure.
He has been there almost the entire time apart from
that first record. He had a brief hiatus a few
years later, but otherwise he's always been a part of
the band, and he's regarded as at a central part
of the band by many, including myself. These a big

(07:48):
personal influence on me. Also as a bass player, I
can hear his influence on my play.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Mike got so many bass lines that you recognize from
care songs. And he's the guy and he was a
Robert's best man at his wedding or vice versa.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
So yeah, they've been best friends for a long time.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yes, they had a falling out for a little bit,
and then.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
That's still a few years off in the future, and
they've had a relationship from time to time, but I mean,
best buds will be like that sometimes, as long as
you get through it make up again afterwards.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
A year after The Cure released nineteen eighty one's Faith
Enough for Me. Faith is the first Cure album where
I can say I'm a huge fan of the album
from start to finish. Primary was a single, but All
Cats Are Gray my standout favorite from this album. Heavily
influenced by the death of Robert's grandmother and other family
frailties as you're right, and he was really questioning his

(08:38):
own faith at this time, and he seemed to be
self medicating with drugs right around this time.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, that's something that people didn't really understand. Well, I
didn't even think of for a long time. I never
associated the cure with drugs. I mean, I knew that
they liked to drink, but it wasn't until later in
my fandom that I realized that they went through a
few drug phases as well, or an extended period of
time really. So yeah, that record, I mean, cocaine was
starting to come into the picture pretty heavily, which was

(09:06):
making things a bit fractious in the studio, and they
couldn't really lock down what they were after. They're after
a very fune, a real kind of gray kind of vibe,
and they weren't given that first. Everything just kind of
sounded flat and dead, which was a bit more funeral
than they were hoping for, because they really did get
a sort of drab majesty out of that sound in
the end, you know, and primary itself. It was a
good example. The original version was more upbeat, but it

(09:28):
just didn't really have that same vibe and then by
the time they got to the album version, yeah, they
stripped it down, they sped it up, and yeah, that's
a classic number. I mean, and in fact that there's
no guitar on it all. It's the two bass guitars
and there's not even any keyboards on that. It's so
sparse and it doesn't sound empty, and it really does
kind of sound unique. I mean, when the band has
played it since on stage with a couple of guitars

(09:50):
and keyboards in the mixes, doesn't sound the same. It
sounds good still, but you can't go past the original
for me, for the way that it sounds and the
unique nature of it.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
So up the first of the legendary trilogy of Cure albums,
nineteen eighty two's Pornography is next incredibly dark, intense, and
reflective of Robert's mood at that time. What was it
that was pushing him into this dark place? And how
was that not just affecting the music, but Robert's relationship
with his band meets Robert and Simon Gallup, this is

(10:20):
where their relationship fell apart.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Well, I'm again drugs were playing apart. I mean, I
wouldn't say that was it Robert was also just going
through a bit of a strange phase himself. I mean,
he'd been through a sort of having grown up Catholic upbringing.
It's rejected that, and then he was questioning all of
that during the Faith era as well and wondering what
that meant to him. And I think he was just
having a hard time understanding the world around him, dealing

(10:45):
with people. And of course the Cure are just working
flat out at that point. They've been going solid for years.
I mean, this is an era when bands will put
out an album every year plus have put out nine
album singles as well and touring the rest of the time.
So this's never had a break, so it's understandable the
stress would get the better them after for a while.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
What did you think when you first heard this one?
Because for me, personally, I didn't. It didn't hit me
at first. Years later I listened to it, it's like, man,
why didn't I like this as much? But you have
to be in the right mindset. You got to be
at maybe a certain time of year, maybe around now,
you get into the Halloween time you start listening because
it's intense. It's not one you're going to play at

(11:21):
a party to get people up in on the dance floor.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
No, depends on the top of party, of course.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Not time. I guess that's true. That's true.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, when I first heard it, I mean i'd started
collecting the back catalog of Quell records at that point.
This is early on in my fandom, and so I've
only heard the Hanging Guarden off that because Standing on
the Beach it was the only single off the record,
because I didn't produce a number of sunny pop HiT's
funny enough and that one. Yeah, I ordered it and
listened to it a few times. Oh, that's pretty cool.

(11:52):
But it wasn't really until a few months later and
I had my heart broken that I really started to
vibe on that record under and I found myself like
sitting in my car at the beach late at night,
like just you know, smoking cigarettes instead of wallowing and
self pity and listening to that record, and I was like, yeah,
I get it now, And it was actually a real
help to me at the time. It really did help

(12:15):
me to deal with some of those emotions, you know,
And partly for that reason perhaps it's still one of
my very favorite Cure records. It does have a deep
I do feel a deep connection with it. I do
feel I never really topped it in some ways. I mean,
it's kind of a primitive and brutal record. There's almost
like a heavy metal intensity to it at times, which
I've rarely touched upon since.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, primitive is a good word too, because the album
Covered two is very It's just a distorted picture of
the three guys. And then you have at the end
and the title track. There's a story behind that, like
what we're here and there they're watching something on television
at the time they were recording.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's right, they recorded some material off TV. Part of
it was a talk show. It was a debate between
or passion, at least involving Graham Chapman from Monty Python
and I forget who else it was now I think
a prominent feminine.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Politician or yeah. Yeah, it was so effective. It's so disturbing.
Book on Rock podcast will be back after this.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
This is heavy.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
There's that word again, heavy.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Why are thinks so heavy? In the future?

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Is there a problem with earth gravitational pull? What's interesting
is you get to the next album. Japanese Whispers nineteen
eighty three, definitely not Pornography Part two. Okay, this is
this is yeah, this is upbeat. Let's go to Bed
the Walk The love Cats talk about this album and
what Robertson tent was with the songs with this that

(13:44):
he and his bandmates wrote.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yes, I mean it's kind of going from watching literal
pornography to watching you know, like a care Bears or
something like that, you know, raps change. So I included
this record in the book even though it's not technically
an album, it's a collection of singles. So there were
three singles they put out around this time, which with
the loose title of the Fantasy trilogy. So let's go

(14:08):
to Bed of the Walk and the love Cats, and
there were a drastic change. Robert wanted to basically just
get rid of the sound that the Cure had and
get rid of even their following and just sort of
dismantle the whole thing because you were so sick of it,
and it just dragged him down so far. He realized
he didn't want to be like that anymore. You know,
he got straight a bit and just thought, Okay, I'm
not having any fun with us anymore. It's gone as
far as it can go, so less for a laugh,

(14:30):
let's just destroy it all and move on. And it
didn't really work that way. Somehow people still connected with
the music even though I mean, in the first after
the book, I said, you know, like a more modern example,
like if Trent Resna did you know the downward spiral
and the fragile and then put out something that sounded
like Britney Spears, I mean the same. I mean, it's
such a drastic change of pace. I'm surprised at his

(14:52):
career did manage to survive all of that, frankly, but
I'm very loud that it did.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Huge risk, but you could see where he had that
ability to write a great popsar Let's Go to Bed
and the Walk was influenced. I believe he was getting
into the joy division at the time.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Well it was compared to the New Order a lot too.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
A New Order, I'm sorry, Yeah, it was a enjoyed division.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well very close.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, but he was inspired by New Order. Yeah, that
was his thing. He was getting into that. But you
can see how he's developing his songwriting skills. And then
you have the Top. Released in nineteen eighty four, The
fifth studio album features this single, The Caterpillar although Robert
had promised a solo album for a long time, it's
never happened. Yet. You're right that this is widely regarded
as the closest thing to a Robert Smith solo project.

(15:34):
What sets this album apart from other Cure albums in
that regard in your opinion.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well, this is an era when Simon Gallup wasn't in
the band, so for the singles comprised Japanese whispers, and
then the top as well. To start with, the band
was this Robot and Lowell, Tolhurst and Lola switched over
from drums to keyboards, which sort of reduced his presence
in that luck he wasn't playing in every song now

(16:00):
and also he was still learning. So I mean Robert
wrote most of those songs alone. I mean Lowl did
chip him for some of the songs. He does get
a credit on some of those songs, but otherwise the
record was largely just Robert and then Andy Enison playing drums,
who had stepped in around the Love Cats era, So
most of that record is just the pair of them.
Paul makes a brief appearance on saxophone on one song,

(16:21):
and he joined the band for the tour and then
became a mainstay after that, Lowell wasn't as involved. He
was becoming more of an alcoholic at that point, so
it wasn't as directly involved. I mean Robert was technically
alcoholic too, but I mean Lola is the one who
became known as an alcoholic and eventually became, you know,
so afflicted by it he couldn't function anymore. So also

(16:44):
with Robert getting getting out of his head and then
spending hours in the studio, and that point is also
working other records because he was in Susie and the
Bandshee's at that time as well as their guitarist, so
he'd been going back and forth between like touring and
recording with them and then touring and recording with The Cure.
And he also had side project with Steve Severin from
the band Cheese, which is called The Glove. Yes, an
insane work ethic. I mean he was literally taking a

(17:07):
taxi from one studio to another and then sleeping for
a couple of hours a night wherever he could, and
of course indulging a way too many drinks and substances
as well, and to the point where he just couldn't
handle that anymore, and he had to step out of
the band Cheese because it was just eating up too
much of his everything. Really time energy.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Lord Torhros, did you read his book? I haven't yet, yep.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
So he's got two books out. First, one is Two
Imaginary Boys, which is kind of his story in the Cure,
and then a couple of years ago put another book
called Goth History, which is more about talking about the
roots of the genre and the Cure's connection to it.
So I've still got some quite personal stuff and reflections
from his time in the Cure, but it's not about
the Cure per se, whereas Cured is very much cured.

(17:50):
Two Imaginary Boys. That one I'll tailor to Imaginary Boys.
I'll get the title right by the end of this indurview. Yeah,
that one's very much a memoir, you know, which saw
his I'm curious when you're reading a memoir by someone
who spent most of the time they're talking about wasted
off their head, you know, on drugs and alcohol. You're like,
how much this to I actually believe? Because I mean,
it's a strange thing. When I was reading al Jordans's

(18:12):
book got from Ministry, He's son like, oh, you know,
if you remember the eighties, he weren't there, and then
he goes on to like detail the eighties in graphic detail,
and it's like you were taking more drugs than anyone
else at that time. Why should we take any of
this at face value? And some of what Lowell says
obviously is contradicted by things that Robert has said in interviews.
That's really a matter of picking who you believe. And
while most people were default to Robert, I mean he's

(18:33):
been a bit tricksy with the truth from time to
time too, and you like to be a bit playful
about things come up with ulterinate versions. He's the line
interviews all the time because you get bored of saying
the same thing, so he just make things up for
his own amusement. So sometimes you do got to wonder
what's actually true, And that's one thing of doing this book.
I've kind of had to walk the line, try and
find my own space because I'll be reading old interviews.

(18:55):
It's like, remember, he might be taking the piss here,
and they're ready more recent ones where he's pro probably
telling them the truth as far as he recalls it,
But then who knows, how will he recalls it after
all this time and the stage he was in at
the time.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
I think he's down pretty good terms with Lowell nowadays.
I think I signed interview Loll talked about that, so
that's cool. I don't know has he ever appeared with
the band over the years since he was out. He
was out only eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
So the end of nineteen eighty eight, after they finished Disintegration,
they had a falling out. Lowell was not happy. He
had already been involved in the album process anyways, and
I don't think he even when he actually appears on
the record, and he claims too, but it's hard to tell.
But he's credited on albums as like playing other instrument,
you know, So he wasn't always doing all that much,
and his participation didn't decline album after album at a

(19:40):
point where Disintegration, I mean at least one song on
the record came for an idea of his musically, But
I don't know if he actually appears on it at all.
But they had a falling out end of eighty eight,
and the rest of the band said, when we go
on to it, we don't want him to be there,
otherwise we're not gone. So Robert had to make a choice.
And then there was a quite torture lawsuit for a

(20:00):
while in the nineties where Lowell was trying to gain
ownership of the name, which would have been a very
weird scenario had that come to pass, and he lost
that quite comprehensively. And then they did talk for a while,
and then they did reconnect over the time probab about
two thousand, I think they really reconnected in person. And

(20:21):
then twenty eleven when the Cure decided to do the
shows called Reflections, it was they're playing the first three records,
so three Measuring You Boys, seventeen Seconds in Faith. They
came over here to Australia to do it first at
a festival here in Sydney, and they're playing all three
albums in their entirety. And for the Faith album they
got loll to come on stage and play keyboards and

(20:42):
additional percussion. And then they did an encore series of
these shows like in New York places like that in London.
So there's probably about a dozen shows that Lowell played
on with the band after his departure much later, and
they do that are on good terms now, which is
pretty awesome. It's always good with these things come back
around and you can see old friends reconciling and it

(21:04):
kind of a happy ending, which is, you know something
else romantics really like.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Absolutely going back to the timeline now, so we're up
to nineteen eighty five, the Cure release an album that
marks the beginning of the band's peak commercially successful years,
and that's Head on the Door in Between Days Close
to Me. Two singles on there, and there was an
excitement then return to the band on this album, specifically
with Simon Gallop right, So.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Robert and Simon had met up again and they'd basically
reconciled the differences and Simon came back to the band,
which was a real shot in the arm for them.
Robert said that everyone just sounded more excited when Robert
when and Simon came back. You know, it really gave
them an injection of fresh excitement and attitude. And the

(21:45):
album itself is like a real confection of pop highlights,
you know, like it's that the Top had things like
the Caterpillar, which was very much in the vein of
the fantasy singles, but this one at the Top als
had darker moments, was very very diverse, whereas this and
it was still very diverse, but it was more upbeat
all the way across. I mean ends was sinking, which
is still a fairly gloomy song, but otherwise it's very

(22:07):
much an upbeat record. It really plays that side of
the band. And that was the first album as well
where Robert actually wrote all of the songs and they're
all credited to him. So before that, the songs will
be credited to the band whoever was in the band
at the time when they made the record, they would
get a songwriting credit on each song, because he thought
that was a fair thing to do. Plus everyone was
chipping in to some degree, although that fell off after
a while. And with the head on the door, Robert

(22:29):
really said okay, so here's the songs we're doing, and
just had like a demo tape with him just like
I'm not basic guitar saying Okay, if I can make
these songs work like this, then they'll work with the
whole band, you know. So just really bake did really
basic demos and presented them to the band. They learned
the songs that ended the studio book Down Rock Podcast
will be back after this now might be a Dandy

(22:49):
Town for that recess.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Matthew Davis is the author of The Cure, Every Album,
Every Song writing high in the success of the Head
on the Door, which reached number seven in the UK
fifty nine in the US, along with the singles collections
Standing on a Beach which you mentioned The Cure, you right,
were in good spirits when they convened to work on
the next album in nineteen eighty six, and it resulted

(23:12):
in the album kiss Me, Kissed Me, Kissed Me, which
had a working title of one Million Virgins. I didn't
know that Robert wrote the last album on his own,
like you said, but that changes with this album. Talk
about that and the difference you hear in the songs
as a result.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yes, if this record, Robert said to start with, I
want to tape off all of you with some songs,
or at least some ideas. So everyone stepped up and
actually wrote some material and presented it, and then they
all sat down listened to the songs, and everyone gave
the marks essentially say which one they wanted to do.
And then so when they went to France to record
that record, I mean they ended up with well over

(23:48):
twenty songs. The album itself did up with eighteen songs
on it, and then they had a whole bunch of
B sides as per usual. So yeah, there's a couple
of songs on the other Simon Gallup wrote the music
for There's I think there's two that he did the
three that Paul Thompson and Boris put together. I don't
know how much input Loll had on that one. Even

(24:09):
Boris Williams, who'd been playing drums for them since late
nine eighty four, he came up with a tape of
drum rhythms and stuff like that, so at least he
was willing to be involved in the process and didn't
come from the Thompson Twins where he didn't really have
any involvement in the music. He was just playing along
with program beats and stuff like that and just paying
very basic stuff. So he's very pleased to be able
to come up with his own beats, but also to

(24:30):
be able to say, well, here's some rhythms that I
want to use. So yeah, I definitely led to a
more collaborative kind of sound. I mean, it's still very
much led by Robert and he still wrote most of
the music and all the lyrics.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Has the singles why Can't I Be You, Catch Hot
Hot Hot, and just Like Heaven, which is, in my opinion,
really a perfect pop rock song. I mean, it's absolute perfection.
Share what you writ in the book about the writing
of the song.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
The lyrics. Yes, it's just about like a holiday on
Beachy had that he had with Mary, his partner of
many years. They got together when they were fifteen years old.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Still together, yes, still together after.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
All these years. It's a real romance story, you know,
kind of relationship goals in a way. You know, my
partner and I are very affected by that. I wish
that we'd met when when they Zoe could be together
for that amount of time. But yeah, so she's always
been his news, and he's always always been his rock
and held them together when he was in danger of

(25:33):
falling apart. It must be strange to be a person
like that and just know how many love songs have
been written about she were just how many songs in general.
I mean, I can't think of anyone else that have
more songs written about her, apart from maybe historical figures
or something at Marilyn Monroe where a lot of people
didn't know are probably written songs about her. But I
mean to know that there are like dozens or if
not hundreds of songs inspired by including some of the

(25:55):
best songs of all time, the most romantic songs of
all time. It must be quite an interesting space to be.
But so lyrics were about that and experience that that
Robert and Mary had when they're down there at Beachy Head,
when they're close to me. Video was shot and the
music rober had written a little instrumental with Demo. It
was called Shivers at the time, and they thought it
sounded too much like another Girl, Another Planet. By the

(26:15):
only ones the rest of the events at NAT it'll
be fine, basically, so they sped it up a bit
and just use this compositional trick that they had started
using probably years before, in which I still deployed from
time to time now, where basically start with one or
two instruments, add another one, add another one at another one.
See that the way these two is out. In the
old days, maybe we start with the drums and then

(26:38):
the guitar will come in in the bass and the vocals,
and you get to the end and they drop out
one by one too. We had like maybe just the
drums going in this case obviously start with the bass
and the drums, and the acoustic guitar comes in, and
then you've got your your guitars come in and the
keyboards before that theme comes in. Also, the song was
used as the theme song for French TV show at

(26:59):
the time, so the instrumental would have been familiar to
sound views in France, at least at the time before
it was released as a single.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
The album reached the top forty in the US, number
thirty five, number six in the UK. So now the
Cure are worldwide stars. Robert is becoming part of mainstream
culture thanks to not just the music but the looks,
the gothic look, and he inspired so many like Edward
Scissorhands and you see it everywhere in the late eighties.

(27:27):
But they still have another major artistic and commercial accomplishment
ahead of them, and that's nineteen eighty nine's Disintegration, which
to me is one of the greatest albums in rock
history period number three in the UK, number twelve in
the US. Considered the second now and that Cure trilogy,
that conceptual trilogy. We have Lullaby, Fascination, Street Love Song,

(27:48):
which reached number two on Billboard and I forget which
eclipsed it. I can't remember what was number one at
the time, but Pictures of You another single on there,
and this is my Gateway Cure album changed my life.
I swear I got it as a Christmas gift in
nineteen ninety one, So I go back about five years
behind when you became a fan. First time I heard

(28:09):
of my roommate had in college. I mean, I just
couldn't believe what I was hearing. It just took me
away to a whole another world. Robert was twenty late
twenties at that time, and he had already he started
singing about getting old like when he was twenty five,
which is amazing. How did Robert's age influence this album?
And what was he thinking heading into the recording of

(28:29):
this record? He was thinking that this might be it
for him and the care Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
When he was younger, I mean, he didn't anticipate living
past twenty five. He thought he was probably going to
die quite fast and young and violently probably, And he
kind of lived that way, you know, as if the
try and mack had come true. But having gotten past that,
and you become less of a menace to himself over
the time a bit more stable. I found himself approaching

(28:54):
thirty and something got really depressed. And so the whole
album is really about the horror of turning thirty, you know,
which seems a bit strange when you get past that.
I mean once you get to thirty five, or once
you start facing turning forth here even further to start
thinking what are you talking about? Cheriship while man, you know,
and he really made the most of it. I mean

(29:14):
that record is an absolute landmark. I mean I was
a bit slower off the mark with that one myself.
When I was going back and buying the albums, I
said at the singles collection. I went back from there
and whenever I could find one of the albums, I'd
pick it up. I grew up in a country town,
so when I came down here to Adelaide, which is
the capital of South Australia, I would look around through
the stores and I'd find another one, take it home,

(29:34):
or order him in through the local records store. I
remember I ordered in. I already had Boys Don't Cry,
but I had to get three Imaginary Boys. And it
took thirteen months for the CD to come in to
the music store in my little town and it cost
me forty five dollars, which and at the time CDs
were costing thirty dollars in Australia when they were new.
So yeah, it came to come all the way from

(29:56):
West Germany. It took over a here and it cost
me half as much again, but so Disintegration was one
that I finally stumbled across. It was actually one of
the last ones at the time I didn't already have
and it didn't hit me quite the same way at first. Really,
maybe because it's one of those records we hear so
much about. Everyone's like this is classic, this is legendary,

(30:17):
and then you get it and you listen for the
first time and you go, it's pretty good. Yeah, yeah,
but it has to grow on, I.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Know what you mean. Yeah, the bar is set very high,
or the expectations are set very high.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, and also some of the best records of all time.
I mean that they're growers that the first time I
listened to it is to understand because there's so much
going on. I mean, the first time I heard the
Downward Spiral by nine and Snails was like, you know,
five hours ten, you know, like it's already head closer
in March March of the Pigs, and I like those,
so they were already going. But the rest of it,
there was just so much. It was so dense. I
was like I couldn't take it in. At first, I'm like, okay,

(30:49):
it's all right, I don't understand. And a week later
I was like, how could I possibly live without this record?
You know, because I had time to give it space
in my head and to grow and to get to
know it. And it's the same with meeting people. Sometimes
you know, you meet and you're like, oh, yeah, hi, whatever,
and then months later you're like, wow, what an amazing
person because you've gotten to know them, and then you understand,
like maybe you don't think they're attractive or anything at first,

(31:10):
and latable when you actually get to know them, their
personality chance to and suddenly they are, you know, they
kind of grow into themselves. But that record was kind
of like that for me. I mean, whereas most fans
would say this is the Cure album, my favorite Cure album,
I never actually say that. It's in there. It's at
the top, but it's not one of my absolute favorites,
which sounds a sacrilegious thing to say, perhaps the top

(31:34):
three or top five, But I mean when you've got
a catalog of such quality, I mean, really it's hard
to define which ones your top ones are as anyway.
I mean, when I was an angsty young man, you know,
used to say that The Cure was my favorite band.
Of Pornography is my favorite record of all time, And
these days, I don't know if I could say that
I have one favorite record of all time, I'd still
say that The Cure is my favorite band, just because

(31:55):
they've had the most emotional impact on me.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
What would you put as their number one album? For
The Cure, then what's at the top?

Speaker 2 (32:04):
I don't have one. Per se in Pornography will still
be up there, Kissy Kissney would be up there. Disintegration
will be up there seventeen seconds. I mean really, almost
everything they put out in the eighties was just stone
cold banger, you know, it was just great. I mean,
The Top is the only album for me that isn't
like a straight ten out of ten, and even that's
like a nine, you know, it's it's right up there.

(32:24):
So and it's not like the Lauses in any other sense.
I mean, the nineties records are quite good as well,
and everything they've done has been quality, and then the
new album has been, you know, much better than anything
they've done for a long time.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Booked on rock podcast, will be back after this, Oh, Here's.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Life Look the Way to the Future. Did that? Horazion
never his mind on where he was.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Getting into the nineties. The first album of that decade
another commercial hit, nineteen ninety two's Wish number one in
the UK, number two in the US. Friday I'm in
Love reaches number eighteen on Billboard. Hi and a Letter
to at least the singles the other two singles along
with Friday I'm in Love tell us about Friday I'm
in Love. The song started out quite differently.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yes, it's another song where Robert wrote it, and I
think the original demo was sort of was much slower,
and he kind of also thought it sounded too familiar,
you know, they thought it sounded like something else. You'd
bring people up and say, hey, listen to this. Does
it sound like something to you? This is something you've heard,
and he'll apply it to these people that he knew,
and they would say, no, well, it doesn't sound that familiar.

(33:33):
So we'd be like, okay, great, I'm having that. And
again it's another song where he took it in. It
was a slower piece, and then Simon said, you know,
that would make a great pop song for he just
speed that up a bit, and so they did that,
and Simon's right again absolutely. I mean it's a fairly
classic piece of pop, more so than the Cure usually do,
because often their take on pop is quite idiosyncratic. I mean,

(33:54):
something like just like Hevin is quite a strange song really,
and that the chorus is almost it's not afterthought, but
it's fairly minor compared to all the work that's done
by the verses. For example, it's Fridaymn Love. I mean,
you've got really thematic, catchy verses and choruses as well.
I mean they're more of a type, more of a piece,
the more similar. It definitely sounds like an old sixties
pop song or something like that that I've just done

(34:16):
a cover of, but it's very much their own work.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
I'm fascinated by the songs that didn't make that album
because Robert, at first he intended it to be a
double album, and one album was going to be the
upbeat songs one was going to be the down gloomier
side of the Cure. And then when Join the Dots
the box set came out and they included the songs
that he would have put on that double album. There

(34:40):
are some some I'll steal your phrase, there are some
bangers on that, some really really good songs. I'm trying
to think of some of the titles off the top
of my head, but do you agree those are some
guess I'll look it up. Let me look up those.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Twilight Garden is one of the songs that, yes, you're
being on record, it should have been on there, and yeah,
you look at it and me you think there's a
couple of songs on there that are pretty good but
knock great. So maybe you could have stuck that I'm
There instead or done ex banded version like a double record.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
But that was a label call, right, They did not
want it to be a double album.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Well, that one is more like they wanted to do well.
They possibly could have done a double record, but they're
talking about doing an instrumental record at the time, like
a companion piece called Music for Dreams.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Oh okay, so one was going to be instrumentals.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
So at one point Robert said, you know, they could
have made an album every six months if you didn't
have to write words for it, because they're so very
much easier than to write music than it was to
write complete songs. And some of those songs did come out,
the ones that were going to be on Music for Dreams.
There was an EP that came out called Lost Wishes.
It was a cassette. There was a male order for charity,

(35:48):
and they had four songs and those have been released
since and they're quite strong. So it would be very
interesting to see what they did with that. If they'd
done Wish and then the Era had done in that
Era had done like an instrumental record as well. But
they did have quite a lot of other material for
bassides and things like that which didn't make the cut.
And Aless, This Twilight Garden is where the strongest of them,
but I mean the uniformly strong songs.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
This Twilight Garden, Ye play Halo, Big Hand is another one.
I love.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
The Big An was a quite popular one. Yes, it
was gonna be on the record, which is why there's
a Big Hand on the artwork because Paul Thompson did
the cover off Oh.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Wow, Okay, they quite liked it. Yeah, now that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
It didn't make the cut in the end there's Robert
and Boris. I think didn't really vibe on that one
as much as the others did.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
So yeah, well they only made one more album in
the nineties, they we Can't Forget Burn from the ninety
four Crow soundtrack, another great care song. Yeah, but only
only one other album in the nineties, and that was
nineteen ninety six is Wild Mood Swings, which was It
went to number nine in the UK twelve in the US.

(36:55):
The thirteenth was the lead single, mint Car, Strange Attraction
and go on. Those are all the singles there. The
album didn't fare as well as previous ones, and attendance
nummers dipped. The four year absence between albums that didn't help.
What is your opinion of that, because I distinctly remember
when the thirteenth was released as a lead single and

(37:15):
I didn't like the song, and I thought, well, and
then when mint Car came out second, why not lead
with that one? But Robert wanted the thirteenth, But I
don't know, maybe it didn't matter. We were in time
in nineteen ninety six where you know, tastes are changing
now we're into you know, Oasis was big and so
it was a different time. But also did they wait
too long?

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, there is that. I mean, I wonder what would
have happened if they release of record ninety four or
ninety five. But they're going through some issues there anyways.
I mean Lowell's court case that he launched. They were
dealing with that one, and then once that was over.
I mean also Paul Thompson left at the end of
the Wish tour to pursue other things. You wanted to
play second guitar with Page and Plant. Yeah, yeah, to

(37:58):
be in the band with half of his Auto and
led Zeppelin was a really big deal for him. So
and then Boris Williams left as well, so they were
down to three people. Therefore, even even Simon left briefly
for a point things and everyone else was leaving because
of him, so he may as well go. So it
was just down to Robert and Perry Bemonti for a
while there. It was their second guitarist at the time,

(38:19):
so it took a while. And then the Marshall material
and then they basically hide out a manor a country
manner in England and to set up a studio and
that and lived there and played there and spent probably
a bit too long going over it all. So the
record could have come a bit earlier, but I don't
know how much difference it would have made. Necessarily, it
did suffer because of changing tastes. I mean, britt pop
was on the ascent at the time, and everyone's like, oh,

(38:41):
Oasis is new, and like the Cure a bunch of
old farts now, you know, and it just seems kind
of ridiculous as you know, the Oasis or even a
very revisionist, you know. I mean, they took a lot
of their sound from bands like the Beatles and Status
Quo and things like that and just sort of rehashed old,
old riffs and old sounds, whereas the Cure didn't do that.
They were kind of sounded timeless. I mean, there were

(39:01):
points where they touched upon certain eras and certain sounds.
I mean, like with the mixed up remixed record that
come out in ninety one or ninety that one was
kind of touching on modern trends in dance music at
the time. But yeah, I mean I think it's quite
a strong record, but it's a bit of an idiosyncratic one,
I mean even by QRE standards, because it's all over

(39:22):
the shop.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, it's unbalanced.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, that's right, and looking at it now, you'd be like, okay,
we knock off maybe these two or three songs and
had some quite strong B sides that should have been
on there. I mean it used to be me as
that was on the thirteenth as the B side. That's
more of a sort of classic Cure sounding song, and
that was a really strong one and that arguably should
have been on the record. Anyways, it was the thirteenth,
I mean, a very bizarre choice for a first single,

(39:46):
especially when you've been away for four years or three years,
to come back with a record like that. That would
have had of the fans going like, what's going on
here exactly? Given that ads like kind of a salsa sound,
you know, and brass and stuff like that going on.
It was a very strange choice. But then that's Robert
for you. He's not going to do the expected and
it is a real grower as well. Whereas Midca, I mean,

(40:06):
it's much more of an upbeat piece of pop, more
much more in the vein of stuff off Wish, but
maybe a bit too much like Frida me in Love
to be. The first thing was the m It seemed like, okay,
so we're back with the same sound, whereas yeah, coming
back with here's a completely different sound. Did it really
work for them so well either?

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeap Yeah. Jupiter Crash is a great tune off that
all Treasure Bear No Love.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Robert and the Cure start off to two thousands with
the final of that trilogy, Blood Flowers. You lead the
chapter on this album with quote. At the end of
nineteen ninety seven, the Cure stock was low, wild moot
swings in singles collection Galore, had underperformed on the charts,
and mutters about their increasing irrelevance. We're gaining traction. Then
in February nineteen ninety eight, they received a credibility boost

(40:52):
from an unlikely direction. Robert appeared on South Park voicing
his zero cartoon counterpart as he defeated the evil mecha Rayce,
and one character even shouted, Disintegration is the best album ever.
The Cure were cool again, and perhaps this played into
Robert's next bout of songwriting. There were songwriting sessions in
Christmas nineteen eighty seven, but Robert was not happy with

(41:14):
what he heard. Talk about that and the song that
pulled him out of that phase and really inspired him
to move forward with a new batch of songs.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, the Glass Singles Collection came out in late ninety seven,
and that was a collection of songs from the Imperial phase. Basically,
so is everything from Kisney, Kissing and Kissney through to
Wish and some of their best and most popular singles.
The one new song on that, the one new single
was called Wrong Number, and that was more of an

(41:44):
electronic kind of number. They had Reeves Gabrells from Bowie's
band at the time, coming to play guitar in that one.
Obviously that would lead to further collaborations much down the line,
but they I think they're writing more material in that
kind of vein. I mean, what the Little has come
out is definitely upbeat and more electronic influenced, and I
think because that was the kind of sound Dujure they

(42:05):
were leaning into that. You know, like everyone was kind
of putting drum and bass beats and more techno influence
into their music around that time, and The Kill were
doing it too. But Robert realized pretty quickly that they're
going to be behind the trends. If they did that,
by the time the music came out, you know, things
would have changed. You know, it sounded a bit dated,
and a few years down the track it was going
to sound dated again. And then he wrote out of

(42:26):
This World, which is a much more mellow, reflective kind
of song, and he thought, okay, so this is where
it starts. Because often when he when he's making a record,
he has that one song was like, okay, so this
is the song where it starts. This is the first song,
and this is going to kind of dictate the feel
of the record to follow. So with that one, he thought, yes, okay,
this is a brilliant song. This is where I want
to be going. This is what sounds like the cure.

(42:47):
Never mind that other ship would have throw that in
the bin no good, and so yeah, most of us
remained there ever since, so it's been repurposed in a
different style. So Bloodflowers took on a more reflective and
doomy kind of vibe. And at that point he said, okay,
so this is when you announced the trilogy. So Pornography,
Disintegration and Blood Flowers that before before now it wasn't like, okay,

(43:08):
we've got two albums in a trilogy, and we're going
to write the third one. You kind of retroactively announced
it when they did Blood Flowers, and then they played
those three records together in a few shows in Europe
and record and released them as a DVD to give
people an understanding of why they sort of fit together.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
I've got that DVD.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's quite impressive. And they're playing three albums
like that in one night. I mean, bands often these
days we'll go out and play like a classic album
in full, maybe a couple of songs from non Care.
With the Cure have always played such long sets to
go out and say, okay, who's three albums including like
our longest ever record and the lo Cares as well.
I mean you would know from watching the trilogy DVD,
but there's three albums worth the material there. And then

(43:49):
they play a couple of songs as non core, and
there were more songs that didn't even make the DVD.
If oncre as well, I mean you never you always
get your money's worth and you go to see the Cure,
that's for sure. I mean seeing them full times myself,
and every time it's been two and a half three
hours at least Booked.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
On Rock podcasts. We'll be back after this.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Think about the future.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Listen scat I don't know, and it'll be fined out.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Keep a lid on it.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support.
And make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
share on social media and let people know about Booked
on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,

(44:43):
tune in, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show, The Greatest Hits that came out? Oh
one had song cut here and again here we have
Robert teasing with the idea that maybe the band's over

(45:05):
and if you rearrange the letters, it spells the cure
and okay, is this where he cuts it off? Is
this you know where he cuts it here. That's a
great song too. I love that one. Just Say Yes
was another single from that the Blood Flowers album, and
it wasn't intended to have any hit singles, but it
did well, number eighteen in the UK sixteen in the US.
Concert attendance numbers were on the rise again. Two more

(45:28):
albums released in the first decade of the two thousands,
the top ten self titled A four album and four
thirteen Dream in two thousand and eight. And at this point,
now it's the Cure now a legacy act and more
and more of like the younger bands like Blink one
eighty two. They even had Robert on their album and
they're all looking up to him. And I remember MTV

(45:49):
had rather think it was the Icon series or something
like that, but they were. They were celebrating the Cure.
So things are starting to change for them in that way,
in a good way. Robert, though he said the Cure
after Blood Flowers was over, what changed his mind or
who changed his mind?

Speaker 2 (46:06):
I should say, yeah, that was very much. It's Ross
Robinson we have to thank for that. So he was
a pretty influential producer at the time. I mean, he
did he did Korn's first two records, he did the
first two Slipknot records as well, and a bunch of
other related material. And he was known for getting a
visceral intensity out of the musicians. He was a very

(46:28):
confrontational producer, like he was one of these guys who
sort of sits back and just focus on the sounds.
He wasn't like Rick Ruben who was sort of pop
in and play the guru and like I give some
feedback for a while and then disappear and let the
engineers do the work. He would basically be in there
with the band while they were recording. He'd be like
jumping around the band while they're performing. You'd be like
pushing them and stuff like that, trying to provoke more

(46:49):
intensity out of them. And so he was a massive
Cure fan, and so he bumped into Roberts somewhere and
just said, I need to record your you know, this
is one of my one of my my bucket list items.
And Robert's like, okay, we could do a solo album,
and we mean to do a solo album for a
long time. Ron Ross was really insistent that it had

(47:09):
to be the Cure and Robert had been pretty happy
with the way things had panned out with the cure,
and he was kind of happy to leave it where
it was with Blood Flowers and the tour that came afterwards,
and it was a great tour. That was the first
time I saw them live in two thousand here in Adelaide.
I just moved here that very weak, so I was
kind of like, welcome to the wider world, you know,
and that was that was fantastic. Yeah, it was just

(47:30):
an absolutely amazing show.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Robert's voice is still the scene.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, yeah, to this day. Something you listen to him
and you're like, yeah, well, he's like in his sixties now.
Of course he sounds a bit different. I mean, you
listen to someone like Glenn Danzig, he sounds kind of
husky compared to the way that they used to do.
And fair enough, he's a long career. I mean, these
things happen. Your voice does change as you get older.
But Robert, I mean, he basically sounds the same now
as he did forty years ago. I mean, it's remarkable
how little has changed and that kind of suits. But

(47:58):
he's always been like young at half and he sounds
young as well. So it's very fitting. So yes, he
decided to do another record with Ross. They decided to
make it self titled record. Ross wanted to make it
like a big, doomy, disintegration type epic. That was what
he was pushing for, but Robert thought, we're gonna have
a self titled record, then it should cover all the
different aspects of the band, and that included the poppy

(48:20):
A side as well. So he decided to include some
of those songs, which in some cases kind of watered
it down a little bit. There's still some really strong
material on it, but it's not regarded as one of
their best records. Usually sort of falls down towards the
bottom when people are ranking their discography, which is not
saying that's bad at all. It's just that it's not
as strong overall when you're standing up against the catalog

(48:43):
that they record in the eighties, I mean, you have
to do something really special to be included amongst those.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
I agree in four thirteen Dream kind of the same
feeling on that there's always going to be some great
moments in these albums, but as a whole, there's some,
you know, there's some along with the hits, and that's
why I'm just so pleasantly surprised by that last album,
Songs of a Lost World. Before I ask you about
that and we wrap things up by talking about that

(49:11):
last album, I haven't asked you about the rotating cast
of band members in The Cure. Wikipedia lists twenty three
different lineups. Why do you think there have been a
lot of changes? I mean, is is Robert hard to
work with? Or is it just an evolving band with
members who evolve and have creative differences or other career opportunities.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
It really depends on the member in question. I think
I don't think it's particularly hard to be in The Cure,
though of course you do have to understand that it's
going to be Robert driving the car, so to speak.
He's the guy in the back seat saying I turn
here or something like that. But I mean, you never
going to have full creative control, and as long as
you're fine with that, and as long as you're easy
to work with and understand what's going on. But I mean,

(49:50):
they've had some members who have come and gone, Like
you know, Pearl Thompson's been in the band three different
times now in the seventies and again in the eighties
and then again in the Noughts. Simon Gallat's being there
a couple of times, Perry Bumont's coming well he was twice.
Now Roger O'donnald's been in the band three different times.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
See that's interesting though, So they're coming back. It's not
like they're leaving and saying screw you, I'm never talking
to you again. Clearly they want to come back.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Well, sometimes there's always been a personal connection. I mean
if you look at Pearl Thompson for example, I mean
like he goes by Pearl now it changed his name
after he left the Cure again for the third time,
but he was dating Robert's sister back in the late seventies.
They ended up getting married.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Oh wow, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
So he was married to Robert's sister, Janet, and they
divorced in I think two thousand, So he and Robert
were actually related by a marriage. And Simon Gallup's wife
was called Carol Thompson, and a lot of fans believe
that she was actually Pearl's sister, which would mean that
they're all actually related by marriage at one point, although
I think she actually wasn't I remember having to change

(50:56):
that change of reference to that, like at the very
last second one we're put in the book out because
I'd read some forums and people were claiming that she
wasn't related even though signs he looks last year. So
I kind of had to make that less definitive. But
Y said, I the word quite quite close and have
a natural familial connection. In the case of Robert and Pearl,
there for a while and sometimes there was this bad

(51:19):
blood for a bit, and then after some time has
passed and people grow up a little bit and they
sort of realize that they want to be working together,
they want to be friends again, and so they come
back to the band. There's only been a few people
that have been basically kicked out and I've never returned.
And you know Andy Anderson, for example, he was a
drummer in eighty three and eighty four. I mean he

(51:39):
was just a bit of a problematic drinker at the time,
so yeah, he would get drunk and cause trouble. And
it's got to be too much. In a point where
you're going on a rampage through a hotel in Japan
or something like that, security is being called and they're
macing you and stuff like that. I mean, things are
probably getting about a hand, you know, So he was
let go for that reason lol. Of course, because he
was basically the useless alcoholic by that point as well

(52:02):
in nineteen eighty eight. Though thankfully he cleaned up after
that and he's had his own band since and he's
got his life in order. But yes, an interesting thing.
The cure is kind of like a family in a sense.
It feels like, you know, you might get away from
them for a while, you might not talk very much,
but you're the door is always open if you want
to come back, and if the's an opportunity for that.
I mean, that was the thing with Songs of a

(52:23):
Lost World. I mean that was the same lineup that
had for years, but then when they started touring it,
first night on stage, there's Perry Blonti again and no
one's back coming and there he is. So the back
to a six piece lineup now, and that's his second
stint in the band, So you never really know what's
going to happen with that.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Well, do you remember I was worried that Simon was
on again because he posted something in social media. It's
maybe three four years ago. He's like, I'm out, I
can't really get into it. But audios see you later,
you know, and you're like, what what the.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Hell is going on? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, And then next thing you know, he's up there
on stage with him. I'm like, oh, thank you. So yeah,
it's like a family, you say, there's probably just some
disagreements and maybe you know, sensitive artists, maybe they just
you know, they have it out and then uh, you know,
a month later they're like, yeah, having he's cool, come
on back.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Well I got the feeling that Saw is fairly mercurial
personality as well. I mean he set an interview. Sometimes
I'll quit the band every other week, you know, you
just don't hear about it.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Booked on Rock podcasts. We'll be back after this.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
It's intermation time.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Find the Bookdo on Rock website at booked on rock
dot com. There you can find all the back episodes
of the show, the latest episode in video and audio,
links to all of the platforms where you can listen
to the podcast, plus all the social media platforms were
on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and x. Also check
out the Booked on Rock blog. Find your local independent bookstore.

(53:46):
Find out all the latest hot rock book releases, and
before you go, check out the booked on rock online store.
Pick up some booked on rock merch. It's all at
booked on rock dot Com. Let's finish with Songs of
a Lot Worlds, which came out a sixteen year gap
between albums thirteen and fourteen studio Albums thirteen and fourteen

(54:08):
twenty twenty four. To me, it's one of the best
care albums. I mean, I know, it's easily the best
that they've put out since since I would say Blood Flowers.
What was going on during those sixteen years. I mean,
they were touring a lot. It's not like they were inactive.
I just think maybe Robert wasn't inspired yet to write

(54:29):
new music, or he was sitting on this music for
a while. When they got into the rock hall in
was it twenty eighteen, they got twenty nineteen, he's like, yeah,
He's like this next Halloween, you'll get it. It was
another five years.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Yeah. He's infamous for making promises that he doesn't cape. Yeah,
he's found out how it to rot lyrics over the years.
Not rotting music has been easy for him, But I
mean writting lyrics, I mean, because he said so much before,
and you know, there have been points in his career
where he's kind of been rehashing themes he's worked on before,
so I guess it must be hard for him to go,
what's something new that I can do that's not going

(55:04):
to be so left field that people won't accept it. Yeah,
they were busy touring and Reeves Gibrells joined in twenty
twelve as a full time member, so it's weird he's
been there for thirteen years now. He's only even played
on one record, so they we're pretty constantly getting out there.
And I saw them again. It was the third time
I saw them in twenty sixteen, then again in twenty

(55:26):
nineteen when they came over to Sydney and played at
the Opera House and did Disintegration in its entirety and
then did a second set which is all the B
sides off that record, plus a bunch of songs that
have been unreleased, so some instrumentals and stuff that only
came out on the Ducks Expanded version of Disintegration many
years later. So that was a quite interesting experience. And

(55:46):
I was there on the first night, so yeah, to
see that kind of stuff, to see someone's played live
for the first time ever. It was very interesting. It
was a very emotional time as well. So yes, I
was struggling to keep myself together during that. But I
guess Robert didn't really feel inspired to write lyrics or
like I know at one point he thought, these lyrics

(56:07):
are terrible. This is some of the best music that
the band's written, and my words are crap. So they
did start making that record twenty nineteen. It was just
after they came back from Australia. Actually, I believe that
they went to Wales and started recording the album. So
some of the dates back then, I mean most of it,
they did re record chunks of but later after they
hit the road again. They after Simon announced he was

(56:28):
leaving and then announced, well, action, I'm still here. They
started touring in late twenty two and playing a bunch
of new songs when they're out on the road, and
they had the more of a sort of grandly kind
of drab kind of sound like Miserable but in a
great way, kind of reminiscent of blood Flowers, pretty keyboard driven,

(56:48):
pretty despondent. They did that tour and then people saying okay,
well when's the record coming, when's the record coming? And
we waited, then we waited, and then bang, yeah, finally
they started teasing it, released the snippets a song through
through WhatsApp account and people sign up to and also
having flyers up posters with a date on it Roman numerals,

(57:09):
and yes, it's the first of November that it came out,
so all Saints Day and they were back with Fiction
Records for this one, who hadn't worked with for nearly
twenty five years at that point, and that was actually
under Robert Stipulat. The record had to come out on
the first of November, although which year was probably open
to debate because we've been talking about it for a while. Yes,
the record dropped, and yeah, it's what I exposed to

(57:32):
call a return to form. I mean, because I hadn't
done a record in sixteen years, and the two that
done before that were pretty good but not great, not amazing,
and this one it definitely stands amongst their strongest work
as a kind of late career high points.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
And unlike some of the albums in the nineties, maybe
there are too many tracks on there. You've got eight songs,
very six single. Yeah, I mean it's trimmed down to
the best of the best of whatever he put together
for songs heading in loan. The lead track is absolutely phenomenal.
An end song is my second favorite song, so you

(58:06):
got the first track, final track are just brilliant, and
everything in between just it's just so powerful. There's just something.
The magic seemed to be back, and he's now inspired again.
I mean, he says there's going to be something following this.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Now it's hard because you think, okay, well, whatever got
in going again, that's a good thing, we have more
of that, And then you think, well, you know, the
record was heavily inspired by the death of his parents
and his brother, so you know, yeah, yeah, we don't
want more people. He loves to be dropping off the
twig just so he can get more great cue music,
you know. But yeah, whatever, I mean, it did take

(58:42):
a while, but it was worth the wait. I mean,
you rather have that maybe than another couple of records
in the same vein as the last couple, which felt
a little bit like treading water, whereas this one definitely
feels like a confident stride forward. There is supposed to
be another record or two following this one, so there
was supposed to be another one about now before they

(59:03):
went back out on the road, But so far we've
gotten is a remix album. There was three disc set
or two discs in some cases, mixes of a Lost World,
which is quite interesting, but it's a curiosity. It's a
stop gap. It's not the next step along the path.
So we're waiting now a bated breath for the next announcement,
announcement for the next record, because they did record enough

(59:25):
material with the last record that they could have done
a double eving a triple record at the time. But yeah,
as you said, there was only eight songs, and that
was actually Mary's influence because Roberts said, Okay, it's going
to be twelve songs. It's going to be ten songs,
and she said, You're like, it's going to be too
much for people to take in. You know, want to
keep it, keep it cut down a bit more, and

(59:45):
it's going to have more impact. It's not going to
drag on as much. I'll leave people hungry for it.
And yeah, she was right.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Less than an hour forty nine minutes, just over forty
nine minutes. And I noticed that some of the songs
on here it's the classic Cure sound where that great
thematic grand opening where you don't hear Robert singing. It
takes a little while, maybe like a third of the
way into the song, but some of these songs literally
half the first half of the song is instrumental and

(01:00:15):
then he comes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
In at six before he comes in.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's it's phenomenal. I love it, and
the book is a nice way to get caught up
for those who are maybe you know, passing fans of
the Cure, just getting into them, because I have a
feeling there's a lot of younger people now who are
getting turned down to the Cure and they want to
know about the history of the band, and you can

(01:00:39):
get it here. We should know too. This book not
only covers the studio albums and the singles, but this
has the B sides, the rare tracks, right, the live records,
the remixes. It's all in here, so fans can expect
to get a whole lot in this book.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, every officially released song up to this point, which
was a problem because when I first saw in the
contract to do the book was actually in late twenty
twenty one, and the book was supposed to be delivered
in twenty two, is going to be out by the
middle of the year. But then because Robert started saying, oh,
there's a new record coming, new record's coming, I was like, well,
hang on a second, Hang on a second. All right,

(01:01:14):
so let's hang on to that one for a bit.
So I'd deersisted on it for a while, waiting for
Songs of a Lost World to actually come out, and
then so I could include that, because otherwise I thought,
you know what will happen. I'll finish the book, I'll
hand it in, it'll be published, and then like a
month later, the new record all come out and my
book will instantly be out of date.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Right, Yeah. I remember I asked Stephen Liamb about if
Stephen Limb is the he's the guy in charge of
Son of Way. I said, I said, have you done
anything on the cure yet? At the time, this was
maybe three years ago, and and so at that time
he had I'm sure he was having discussions with you
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Oh yeah, I was already on board for that one
because I actually the way I've got involved asonic Bond
was I saw one of the books in the library
here was that the Kate Bush one and I picked
it up and I read that and at the back
I said like, I'm looking for authors, and I was like, oh, okay,
so when online to see you know what they were
all about? And I thought, what if they've got a
book on the cure and they didn't. I thought, oh okay,

(01:02:06):
oh yes, this could be an interesting way for me
to get into it because I've never written nonfiction at
that length before. I mean, I generally write fiction and
horror fiction at that So for me to do a
whole book which is stuff that actually happened is a
bit of a novelty. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Well, let's talk about where people can find out more
about you online? What other books you have if people
go to Amazon, or do you have a website or
social media that people can go to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Yes, I really could be doing a bit more to
exploit myself, I suppose. But I do have a blog.
It was just Matthew R. Davis fiction dot WordPress dot com.
You can find me on Facebook and on Blue Sky.
I'm pretty open there. I don't have a particularly professional

(01:02:53):
way of going about anything. I'm afraid I don't know.
I was trying to be authentic in these things, and
it's been myself as opposed to like, here's my slick
media presence. But I mean, I really I could do
a bit better, I think, but it's just sounds as
hard as to keep the wheels and the tracks at all,
you know. So yeah, you can look me up, Matthew R. Davis.
I do have a bunch of other books, my first

(01:03:16):
collection of short stories. You can see the Cure influence
right there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
If only tonight we could sleep. Yes, kiss Me kiss Me.
That's the name of the song. Yes, the name of
the song, just kissed me kiss Me. Yep, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Yeah, that's one of my favorite songs. I actually performed
a version of that live at the book launch. I
put a band together because I'm a musician as well,
and I haven't haven't really been playing in bands for
a while now, but I put together a little pickup
group for that one, just to do a few of
my songs in between readings from the book. And I thought, well,
you know what, why not do a cover of that
song since I borrowed the title for the book. That

(01:03:52):
was quite interesting. That was a very interesting experience. It's
one of two Cure songs I've performed live. I've also
did a cover of This is a Lie Off while
Mood swings. Yeah, that's part of an acoustic duo many
many moons ago. Now that one's on YouTube too, I'm
not going to tell them a bit to find it
because it's pretty rope, all right. But the guy that
I was in the duo with he posted it and

(01:04:13):
then shared it with being like, okay, yeah, yeah, I
was twenty years old and I wasn't much of a
singer at the time, and yeah, trying to tackle an
little kestrel waltz was just two acoustic guitars is maybe
a little more ambitious than we can handle at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Yeah, congratulations on this book The Cure, every album, every song.
It's out now. It's wherever books are sold, and you
can look forward on Amazon all the usual places. Sonic Bond,
Burning Shed dot com is where you can get it
in the UK, and if you want to look forward
to your nearest independent bookstore, you can find your nearest
story at bookdown Rock dot com. Matthews, thank you so

(01:04:52):
much for doing this. We've been working on trying to
get this schedule for a while and glad we made
this happen. And again, congratulations on the book. I always
of reading about and talking about the cure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Thank you for having me Eric. That's it. It's in
the books.