October 2, 2025 • 49 mins
The music of Yes without Jon Anderson. Does it stand up to the Jon Anderson years? What do the fans think? What do critics say about it? We explore it all with author Preston Frazier!
Purchase a copy of Yes Indeed: Tales from Yes without Jon Anderson
Visit Preston Frazier's website SlangOfAges.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The music of Yes without John Anderson? Does it stand
up to the John Anderson years? What do the fans think?
What do the critics think? We're gonna explore all of
that next with author Preston Fraser. I'm booked on rockto
rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I mean, I'll leave you.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
You're reading little Hands this, It's time.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
To rock and roll roll.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
I totally booked.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast
for those about to read and rock. We have a
returning guest to the podcast, author Preston Fraser. He has
a brand new book out now titled Yes Indeed Tales
from Yes Without John Anderson. Preston, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Eric is good to be here. Of course, I've been
listening to Booked on Rock a lot, especially like the
episode you had recently bought ric Ocasek. I was wondering
if you guys who want to talk about the use
of the drum machines so planning their David Robinson for
the last three albums, but you never got a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So I did notice that the sound of the drums
changed drastically with the mud Laying album Heartbeat City and
then Door to Door yep. And yeah, then the one
from twenty eleven move like this.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I saw that tour. Actually, that was fantastic. They were
great with no bass player.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
With no bass player. Yeah, yeah, thanks so much for
listening to the podcast. I really appreciate it. And this
one is an interesting one. Before we get into the book,
you dedicated to quote the five percent for something fans.
Who is the five percent for something fan?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, that's a phrase which came from Mark Anthony k
who's in the book, and Kevin Maulryan, who chaired the
Yes music podcast. And I think you're taking it from
the song five percent for Nothing from the Fragile album
of Bill Bruffer Trap, where that song, even though instrumental,
talks about really how man get money for doing nothing
(02:02):
but pardon. Yes fans called themselves five percent or something
because they love the band and they're a small minority
who know the entire catalog.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The book focuses specifically on the ears of Yes without
their iconic frontman John Anderson. I'm really curious as to
what inspired you to focus on these specific eras.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Wow, man, that's that's a good question.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
You're a fan of the underdog.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm a fan of the Underdog, and I'm a fan
of these albums, but Eric, quite frankly, there are a
lot of great Yes albums, Yes books.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I'm Tim Morris, who is a.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Wonderful progue artist who I interviewed a while ago, has
a wonderful book on Yes. I know you've interviewed some
people who have written books on Yes, Stephen Lamb.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Stephen Lamb and.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Also the guy who did the book on was a
Death Leopard God.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Jimber is her name now.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
But there are a bunch of great, how great books
on Kevin maul Ryan of Yes Music podcast in a
book on Tales from Topographic Oceans recently, which is a
wonderful book. So I didn't want to retread those. I
also didn't want to talk about something that everyone talks about.
We know you're going to talk about Fragile Close to
the Edge nine two one five, So why should.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I do that.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I want to do something totally different, which is what
I think I did.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And I think it's going to bring out some interesting
debate among YES fans once this gets out there. The
book just came out right.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Right, It just came out. It's available right now, I
think on Amazon. But pretty soon it will be an
all major retailers, physical and digital.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Okay, yeah, yeah. It will be interesting to see some
of the comments that the longtime Yes fans make regarding this,
because it's going to be an interesting debate as to
how these years stand up to the John Anderson years.
The opening chapter covers the nineteen eighty album Drama. That's
the first one. It's their tenth studio album, but the
only to feature Trevor Horn on lead vocals and the
(03:59):
first Jeff Downs on keyboards. A wonderfully written opening, I'm
gonna quote you here, you write quote. In the autumn
of nineteen eighty, as dusk settled over London's foggy streets,
the air carried a secret promise of change, promised that
the familiar might yet be reborn. For Yes, a band
long defined by its intricate progressions and sprawling epics, that
(04:20):
night was the quiet prelude to a transformation both unexpected
and inevitable. The stage was set not in a grand arena,
but in the collective determination of its members, a determination that,
despite internal fractures and the loss of cherish icons white
John Anderson and Rick Wakeman, the creative spirit of yes,
would not only endure but evolve wonderfully written. Wanted to
(04:43):
quote you directly on that one before we get into
the album. What led to the departure of John Anderson
and keyboardist Rick Wakeman.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Right, I think it was because of these I think
it was nineteen seventy nine or nineteen seventy eight, the
Paris sessions that they did with Roy Thomas Baker, who
died a few months ago. I mean they were working
on an album in Paris. It was Anderson, Wakeman, how
Squire and White. They had completed some rough tracks and
(05:13):
then I believe Alan White, their their late drummer, went out.
Uh went roller skating, disco skating. It broke his ankle.
So they decided to wrap up the album. They wrap
up the sessions, but it was thought that Anderson and
Anderson and Wakeman really weren't feeling the music. They weren't
(05:34):
enjoying the sessions. They were kind of burnt out and
they wanted to do their own things. So they both
went in their way to do solo albums, and that
led to a situation where, uh, where Squire said, well
I want to continue, how do you want to continue?
Whye do you want to continue and they said yeah,
So they found the Buggles and integrated the Buggles Jeff
(05:54):
Downs and Trevor Horn into the band.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And the Buggles known for video Killed the Radio Star,
famously known for that song song.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And two great, two really good albums by Jeff and Trevor.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, I've heard about that. I got to listen to them.
I've heard that. Let's talk about the soul single from
the album, which is Into the Lens. Interesting comment, I'm
hoping you can expand on you write quote. It was
as if the band, through this song, invited its listeners
to look deeply into the reflective surfaces of memory and change,
to witness the subtle alchemy of loss transforming into innovation.
(06:29):
This is referring to both the complexity and the power
of the track.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right Into the Lens is a wonderful song. Well quite frankly,
I love every song on Drama. It's one of my
favorite Yes albums. It's not my favorite, but Into the
Lens is a great song because it could. It binds
so many great progressive elements, so many great pop elements,
and it has such wonderful guitar nuance playing to the
(06:56):
album to the song. One thing I like about Drama
is that at How doesn't do what's expected, nor does
fled Matter Chris Squire know that, nor did he ever
do that. It is really subtle, but it's different. It
is progressive. I talked to John Anderson a few years
(07:17):
ago about his album with ron A Stolt. I think
it was called what was it called like the Miracle
of Life or something like that was a d what album?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And I asked him what was progressive music?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And I really appreciate the album that he'd done with Royna,
and he said, well, progressive music mus are always progressive,
always moving forward.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And I think into the.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Lens and Drama shows that where it's a band that
didn't want to recreate fragile, they want to create close
to the edge, but wanted to move forward.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
They really did.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What was the response to the album from the fans
and the critics and how did the perceptions kind of
shift in the years following its release.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, I don't remember where it charted.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
They charted pretty well though in America and in England,
but I think that a lot of fans weren't aware
initially back when it was released that Anderson and Wakeman
no longer in the band, and a lot of people
bought it and initially thought it was just okay, or
it was not okay because it wasn't John and Eric Wakeman.
(08:22):
I think over the years it has definitely gained a
following fans. A lot of fans point to this as
being one of their favorite Yes albums, and I think
when they toured, they toured maybe it was five years
ago for a topographic drama tour with one part drama.
The first part of the show drama in its entirely,
(08:44):
the second part teal some topographic oceans in its entirety,
and those songs were really well received by the audience.
And also the Topographic Drama live release is a wonderful
live release, probably one of the best live leases for
a band has a lot of live releases. So it
has definitely gained favor among Yes fans, especially those who
(09:07):
were you know, who are open to new singers and
new ideas, and even those who said there's no Yes
about John Andison, some of them have fall into the
fold you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Not a lot of people knew that John Anderson was
out of the band, and it may sound surprising if
you're a younger listener right now. But in those days
you're talking pre Internet, so you'd only find out about
that maybe in a in a trade magazine. Maybe Rolling
Stone would write about it. But if at that time,
I don't know how popular Yes really was. The popularity
is starting to wig a little bit in terms of mainstream,
(09:39):
wasn't it, So they may not have gotten the coverage.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I think Tormado, which was the album before this, before
the paras sessions, did reasonably well. But again, like you're
exactly right, there's no Internet back then. You would find
out about bands from Rolling Stone or Circus or wherever
you were reading.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And then this.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Album did reasonably well in America, and the tour where
they took Trevor Horn and Jet Downs on the road
also did well in America, but in Europe they were
peckle a lot. Where's John, Where's John? Where's Reck? So
they did good business, but the feedback of the fans
(10:22):
was a little bit negative. They toured this album initially,
and that was probably part of the reason why Horn
decided he didn't want to continue with Yes, and he
wanted to go into production, and they went their separate ways.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, that's what's interesting Trevor Horn doesn't sing on another
Yes album, but he's not out of Yes entirely. In fact,
he's part of a huge commercial peak era of Yes.
Before getting into the twenty eleven album Fly from Here,
talk about what happened with the band and Trevor Horn
Following drama.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Trevor Horn decided that he wanted to be a producer.
He didn't like being on stage. He liked writing, and
he still does that a lot actually, and he had
some race success with writing was Seal and with some
other artists, but he didn't want to be the focal
point on stage and Yes wanted a front man, even
(11:10):
though Chris Wire could see most of the parts. And
there was some talk also later when we get to
when you talk about nine on two one five about
Trevor Ravens singing the parts. But Horn didn't want to
do this. He went into production, and at that time
Yes was kind of fractured, and you had Jeff Downs
(11:30):
and Steve Howe working together. Jeff Downs had a concept
of a new band and he took it to Steve
House saying, hey, why don't we do a supergroup? You
me Simon Phillips on drums and we'll find a bass player,
and that band eventually became Asia with of course Carl Palmer,
(11:51):
Steve how John Wetton, and Jeff Downs.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And then there was a project Cinema right, and that
was a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
It was centem Up. It's about the same time where
Chris Squire and Alan White that partnership which remained till
really Chris gre died, wanted to continue with some sort
of music. So they reached out to Jimmy Page who
was looking for projects. And Paige, of course had led
(12:23):
Zeppelin was over and he wanted to do something. He
wanted to write, he wanted to produce, he wanted to
play live, so Born Downs not Notckdowns. So then Squire
and White worked with Jimmy Page. They recorded, did some jams,
worked on a few songs, and then then what happened
(12:48):
was that Jimmy Page decided, hey, we need a singer.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I know this guy. He's really good.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
He was a led Zeppelin. Let's get Robert Plant in there.
And Robert Plant said there's no way. He just didn't
want to do it. They wanted to try to recreate
any of led Zeppel stuff. Wasn't ready to go back
into doing group work. So that kind of dissolved, and
then Chris Quire said, well, I heard about this other
singer and guitarist from South Africa named Trevor Raven.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
They brought him in.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
He had a whole bunch of songs partially written, some
completely written, and they decided to do a band called
Cinema and then decided, hey, we need to keep our player.
What about we go back and ask this guy who
was the original keyboard or player of Yes. Tony Canyon
joined us, and he did for a little bit. They quit,
(13:37):
then he came back.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That is a spot on great job right there pressing,
because that is so complicated to go back to that period.
It's like trying to draw lines and connect these connect
the dots to who's and who and how. But yeah,
eventually the record label, I think, was saying to we
need to call this yes. From a commercial standpoint, we
got to call this yes. And then John Anderson comes
(13:59):
back kind of reluctantly.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well I don't know how reluctant it was. I'm not
sure where John Anderson was when he was going back
to Yes. Man, I'm not sure which album was he
had coming out. He was never a person who really
set the world of fire in terms of solo sales
besides the alliance of Sun Hillo. But he always had
a vision. And when he went back to your point,
when he went back, when he went back to Yes
(14:24):
with Cinema bicame Yes. He Most of these songs had
already been written completely written.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Some had.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Most of them had lead vocals by Trevor Rabin, some
had lead vocals by Chris Squire. So the album was done.
And what Anderson did for a few songs he added
a word or two or phrase, and he got writing credits.
And then he added his vocals to most of the songs.
(14:55):
And there's still a few songs of nine on two
one five where Trevor Rabin, like UH changes for example,
where Trevor Rabis sings the most most of the song,
but Anderson's voice is there and he became an integral
part of the Yes. The other part, and I know
we're getting away from from UH drama a little bit,
but the other part is that Rabin and Jeff Rabin
(15:20):
and Trevor Horn weren't really buddies, and Rave and Trevor
Horn and Anderson didn't really get along very well, so
it made it a little bit more complex. Then you
had the added drama, if you will, of Tony k
joining the band when most of the key word parts
were played by Rabin. Then he left the band because
(15:41):
he was upset with some things, and he came back,
so all that, Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Drama.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Podcast will be back after this.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't
call me surely.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So Anderson he stays with Yes. Big Generator came after
day seven, so they had They had a really good
run there commercially speaking, through the rest of the eighties.
Then they disbanded again in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And did them nine two five Big Generator. Then there
was another split. Part of it was because a Big
Generator was so difficult to make. It started and I
think Paris or somewhere in Europe with Trevor Horn getting
(16:31):
the basic tracks down, and there was a lot of
conflict between Anderson and Horn and also Horren and Raven.
Then they moved to America. I think they went to
la and a bunch of studios in La and Horn
that Horn was pretty much gone by then and Trevor
Raven took over most of the production.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Uh, they were recording and recording.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And recording, and by the time they hit the road
for a big generator, they were kind of burnt out already,
and after big Generators they just said, now we just
need to take a little break here, and they took
a little break and there was another splint splinter and
the van reformed. Part of it being Andreson Bruf of
(17:13):
Wakeman how, part of it being the Olds, which is.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Which well, actually it's not true.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Part of it was being Andison Bruf Wakeman. How. I
think that was kind of going into the Talk era. No,
that's not even right idea, because then we had the
Union album.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Union was nineteen ninety one, right.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Union Happened, which despite his title, isn't really a union
because it's really two separate bands. And I think there's
a part of the book where I talked and maybe
the Kit and Kobodo part where I talk about some
of the Union songs, because those are really songs without
John Anderson's production input, lyrical input. He may have sang
(17:52):
on them, but he wasn't involved in their creation.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Then the album Talk in nineteen ninety four, barely remember
that it has John Anderson on It didn't do well.
The single The Calling.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, that was an interesting album too, because they were
kind of looking for a new sound and new record
company and new management and they went with I think
it was Victory Records, which didn't have many artists involved
with it, but it was a friend of their then
man manager. And the album was produced by Raven, mostly
(18:26):
written by Raven and Anderson, with one collaboration with Chris
Squire and also one collaboration with the singer from Super Tramp,
Roger Hodgson. But the label didn't really promote it because
they had no money and it really died. And the
(18:47):
tour for Talk, which featured Billy Sherwood on second guitar,
keyboards and bass tour didn't do well either because people
didn't know about it.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, they had then they had Opened Your Eyes. The
Ladder would have been studio album number eighteen Magnification.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Actually John Anderson's on that one, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Is everything till we get back until Fly, Until we
get back to Fly from here.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And that's yeah, that's where we're at now with the book, right, Yeah. Yeah,
So a lot a lot happens in those years between
Drama and twenty eleven's Fly from Here. Yes, his twentieth
studio album. This features the first and only appearance of
is it ben Wah David, ben Wah David, ben Wah David, Yeah,
(19:38):
lead vocals.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And one thing I did in the book Eric was
I talked about Fly from Here, I did not talk
in detail about the Return Trip five to Here the
Return Trip, And they're really the same album, but one
features ben Wah Davis David the original, and then the
other one feature Tranfer Horn on vocals replacing ben Wan David.
(20:03):
Were here raised all of ben Wan David's vocals. He
remixed the album and they reissued the album during there.
I think it was around their fiftieth anniversary times. So
it's really the same album. But I prefer the original
which had ben Wan David and ben Wan David did
appear on the EP from a page. But I don't
think you can even find Fly from Here the original
(20:28):
on download you Maybe I find a CV of it,
but not a download.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You're right, I don't think that's on streaming services. I
think it's the other version, yeah, the Return Trip, Yes,
you're right. I think though if you go on to
YouTube it might be there, maybe possibly, so you write
quote for Yes. The path to Fly from Here was
strewn with challenges and moments of quiet revelation, talk about
what led to the album, why John Anderson was not involved,
(20:52):
and then how do they find Ben Wah?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Ben Wah was a singer and a cover I did
Yes This Yest covers, and Chris Squire used to consider
him a personnel director free as he found keyboardist, he
found guitarist uh and he saw Ben want David I
think it was YouTube and he liked his vocal delivery.
(21:19):
Give us a situation where they wanted to go out
on tour, but Anderson had a very serious medical condition
where he could have come came close to dying, and
they had the tour all lined up. It was with
it was supposed to be Anderson, Squire White and I
(21:39):
believe at the time it was supposed to be wake
Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe. Anderson couldn't do the tour
and they thought, okay, we're going to cancel the tour.
Then they thought, well, we have these days booked. We
don't want to lose all this money and goodwill. So
they asked Anderson, is okay if we hire a singer
temporarily to come men and sing the songs while you recover.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And he said okay, and.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
They got Ben One David from like I said, Chris
Squier saw him. Then. As as the preparation went on,
Rick Wakeman could not do the tour. He had some
other obligations and he recommended Steve Howe recommended, why don't
we use Oliver Wakeman your son, and Oliver Wakeman's a
(22:26):
brilliant keyboardist. That Oliver and Rick Wakeman are going to
on tour together next year twenty twenty six. The brilliant keyboardist,
brilliant composer, he can do the parts, said he said, okay,
we'll bring him in and we'll have Ben Wall David there.
So Oliver was expecting work with John Anderson, came in,
(22:46):
we started working with Ben war David. They practice and
they got that together. And as a tour went on,
it was clear that John Anderson could not join the tour.
He was not physically able to do that. And then
the decision was made by the band We're just gonna
continue with Ben One, David and h and so it
was a little upset obviously.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And the seeds of this album they start with a
late night conversation between bassist Chris Squire and Trevor Horn,
who produced the album. There's a long dormant demo from
the pre Drama days that they bring back.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, there is uh.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
During the Drama tour, they did the Fly from Here
Sweet live but never recorded it in studio, and there
are some live recordings of that Sweet. In fact, there
is a box set, a five disc box set by
Yes officially by Yes, which features that Sweet, which features
Trevor Horn singing.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
That song live from You're Sweet.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
So they liked that song, and they had written some
songs already with Oliver Wakeman and Olivia Weakeman. I had
also written some songs for the band to contribute to.
But they decided, hey, why don't we just go with
this Fly from Here suite. We'll expand it, we'll make
(24:06):
that into a album and we'll go from there.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
And at one point, while.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
In the studio working with the band, because Oliver was
still in the band Alive waken was still in the band,
they decided, or really was Trevor Horne said, why don't
we bring Jeff Downs in because Jeff Downs wrote some
of these songs, Most of these songs. He contributed the
original keyboard parts. He knows them, he'll be a good addition.
(24:34):
So they asked Oliver Wakeman to step aside, basically fired him.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
A nearly twenty five minute obty Seed divided into six parts,
and you say capture the full spectrum of Yes, his
musical and emotional journey. How do you feel about ben
WA's vocals on that album? Obviously you write about that
version in the book and not the other, so I'm
assuming you're a fan.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I'm a favorite of ben Wi David.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I've seen him live I think three times with Yes.
He has an He's Canadian French. Canadian and frenchis's first language.
He speaks English obviously, but he has an ad set,
but he really has a good control. He worked his
range really well on that album. I'm a big fan
of this and what I got. I did buy the
(25:17):
Return Trip when they came out during their fiftieth anniversary
celebration and it's still good. But I can't erase in
my mind the original. I just love the original well.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The Sweet Stood is the centerpiece of this album. There
are tracks on the album that you say unfold like
individual vignettes, talk about some of the highlights from this,
you know, Solitaire's one where Steve Howe's virtuoso guitar skills
are unfull display. The guy's brilliant What are some of
the other tracks you're a fan of?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I would say probably my favorite song on Fly from
Here is Into the Storm, and I think that is
the only group composition that the entire group war with
Oliver Wakeman. It's just a wonderful, froggy song. It has a.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Harmony lead vocal.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think it's Chris Squire and how and ben Wan David,
but in this in this form is probably my favorite song,
and it's a great frog epic. Another standout track is
the Man You've Always Wanted Me to Be. And this
is a little bit different from what you would expect
from Yes, because it really is a rock, soft rock song.
(26:34):
It is not doesn't have that many prog elements, but
it really has great lyrics, great acoustic and electric guitar,
and it also features Chris Squire on lead vocal and
not ben Wan David, and it's a great vocal by
Squire and the song just really works well.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Preston Fraser, the author of Yes Indeed, Tales from Yes
without John Anderson.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
I love that title.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So what happened with Ben Wong? Only one album.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Wow, one out well one half albums.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Ben Wah had the same some of the same issues
that John Anderson had. He had a I think it
was a respiratory infection, and so he was struggling through shows.
He during some of the shows he was he couldn't sing.
He had trouble singing period, and they thought that they
(27:31):
will give him a break and maybe bring someone else
in temporarily. They say with John Anderson and uh, they
decided no, We're not going to continue with them. So
they decided to not to continue with Ben Wah, and
they seeking another singer and they brought in John Davison.
They brought in John Davison, another singer who oh he
had a background working with other bands as well. Uh,
(27:53):
he was a big friend, a good friend, maybe his
best friend. Of the drummer from the Food from the
Food Fighters, I think it's Taylor Hawkins and had a
really good pedigree and he can handle the riggers of
the road as well as the high vocals that let
Yes fans expected. Another thing about Yes is they really
(28:16):
didn't change the keys to their songs.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
They haven't done that.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
A lot of bands, especially Bins, which had been around
for twenty thirty forty years, change the keys because it's
hard for seventy year old man to sing songs that
he was singing in the seventy Oh yeah, hard for
thirty ye old man the songs were seting. But Yes
doesn't do that. So he can handle the riggers of
the road and he can write, and Ben want David
(28:39):
could write, but not really wasn't nearless prolific as John
Manderson or John Davison, And three.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Years later studio album number twenty one for Yes, the
first with John Davison, is Heaven and Earth.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Heaven and Earth, Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
The final album to feature Chris Cryer, right.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
The last Chris s Guire album, the first with John Davison,
in a return of Roy Thomas Baker to production up
actually now the return because he never actually produced a
full album. He never did the pair of sessions, just
a few songs.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
He produced the Cars and of course Queen.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And he produced great albums with the Cars and great
album with Queen, but he didn't produce a great album
with Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, Well what happened?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh okay, so there is a autobiography by Steve Howie
talks about Roy Thomas Baker. He seemed very disengaged with
the band in terms of giving them feedback. He seemed
to focus a lot more on the technology as opposed
(29:46):
to the arrangements and songs, and yes is a band
which from the beginning to today needs a very stronghand studio.
Sometimes that was John Anderson, sometimes that is Steve Howe,
sometimes it was Chris Squire. But they didn't have much
(30:09):
guidance in the studio, so the arrangements for Heaven and
Earth really weren't very well fleshed out. I think the
drum sound that Roy Thomas Baker got was pretty awful compared.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
To what he's done with other bands.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And also the keyboard arrangements needed will work. And according
to Steve how and Jeff Downs, they just didn't have
enough time to finish the album properly. They had a
tour commitment. They had to get the album the record,
but he won the album out before the tour and
that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And this was his last production credit before he passed away.
Was it really I would look I was looking it
up Roy Thomas Baker, Yeah, and for those who may
not be aware, we mentioned Chris Squire the last album
before he passed away. He passed away in twenty fifteen.
But Roy Thomas Baker, if you look at his discography,
that's the last one on there. That's it, Heaven and
(31:12):
Earth twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Man, that's a shame that he went out on an
album which is great. I mean, there are good elements
to the album, and there's some good songs, but the
arrangements are they're boring. The energy is so restrained and
the dramas don't jump out the.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Way they did in drama.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So yeah, John Davison's vocals, I think he gets better
with each album. On this one though, you do say
he arrived not to impersonate but to extend the spirit.
So satisfied with his performance on.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
The album, yeah, I think he does a great job
for his first album with a band of veterans who
are have a legacy. Roy Thomas Baker was very focused
on John Davison and he auto tuned every vocal that
John Davis. This did and according to Steve Howe's biography Autobiography,
despite the fact that John Davis was Davidson was perfect
(32:07):
pitch perfect and it never had a problem with his
pitch in the studio. But Roy Thomas Baker wanted to
process his vocals, and that's strange. He sounds well. The
hope before your process is strange. Still, the Davidson sounds
really good. The background vocals are really good. And that's
(32:28):
a weirdness around that too, because the backing vocals for
Heaven and Earth were produced and arranged and mixed by
Billy Sherwood, because by the time they got to the
mixing phase of Heaven and Earth, they had had enough
of Roy Thomas Baker did want him to mix it,
did want him to do the backing vocals, so they
brought in Billy Sherwood, who had worked with them on
(32:53):
Keustony Ascension one and two and also worked with them
one Union, And of course I toured with them for
the Top tour and Billy did finish the alt Mouth
for Booked.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
On Rock podcasts, We'll be back after this, I will.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
We can you, Jassy, I will be back.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Find the bookdown Rock website at bookednrock dot com. There
you can find all the back episodes of the show,
the latest episode in video and audio links to all
of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
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Speaker 4 (33:31):
Also check out the Booked on Rock blog.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
hot rock book releases, and before.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
You go, check out the booked on Rock online store.
Pick up some booked on rock merch. It's all at
booked on Rock dot Com.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
We mentioned Squire's passing, there was some healing in the
process of revisiting some lost pieces. This is for the
mini album titled from a Page release in twenty nineteen,
for previously un release tracks from the lineup that was
from eight to twenty eleven. This was some healing, not
(34:07):
only for the band but also for fans.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, I want to go back to Heaven Earth for
a second, because there is a rumor that there are
unreleased tracks that feature Chris prominently on Heaven that were
recorded for Heaven their sessions that we haven't seen, including
one epic that Jeff Downs had written and the song
Subway Walls is so well written and played just poorly produced.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
For from a Page you have an energy that she
did not have on Heaven and Earth.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
You have other Awakeness keyboards front and center. You have
some really stinging the guitar from Steve Howe, and you
have some excellent vocals from Ben Wa David, who is
sitting in a slightly lower register than John Anderson did
or John Davison does. But it worked well had he
(35:01):
had four extremely strong songs which may for a good
half in the album. So the question is why couldn't
it continue that you get a full album out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
But that's the way it goes.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
October first, twenty twenty one, Yes release The Quest, the
band's twenty second studio album. John Davison is back on
lead vocals, and you write, quote the album's title, The
Quest is more than just a name, It's a declaration.
So tell us about the newest members of the band here.
How do you feel the music shows a band that's
evolving with every generation.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I think they were very hesitant to do a new
music after Heaven and Earth. Heaven and Earth soul reasonably
well and it had one single, I believe, but the
fans in retrospect don't particularly love that album. I don't
know many people are like the Heaven and Earth. So
they were hesitant to go back in his studio and
(35:53):
do something unless they were ready to do it, and
they wanted a firm hand on production, so they kept
an internal I mean, you have Steve Howell produced the
entire album.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
You have.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Of course, you have Alan White, they're still on drums
and Chris Squire on bass. That's sorry, Alan White still
on drums, but you don't have Chris Guire because he
unfortunately passed away. And you have Billy Sherwood back in
the band. Billy Sherwood was there as assignment for the
Talk tour and also contributed to Union and was a
(36:32):
member for the Ladder album as a guitarist. Here he's
back on bass, which I think is his preferred instrument.
That he's an excellent guitarist and also an excellent drummer,
and they worked on songs individually. Collectively, you have two
members who live in England, two I believe, one who lived,
(36:54):
two who live in the United States and one who
lived No three who live in the United States. So
we had the international he's going when they were flying
files back and forth digitally, and it's also during the
pandemic they were recording, so there was some challenges there,
but they came up with a pretty cohesive album with
(37:16):
really strong songs and excellent play. And I think it's
a stark difference between the drumming and the drum sounds
of The Quest and Heaven and Earth. Alan White, this
sounds so much better on The questing them to Heaven
and Earth, even though he was struggling with some physical
problems at that point, and.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
They already started working on what would become the next album,
Mirror to the Sky, before shortly before the release of
The Quest. That album, Mirror to the Sky, was released
in May of twenty twenty three, they would lose another
legendary band member, Alan White died in twenty twenty two.
We have Jay shellon on drums, John Davison back for
(37:55):
a third time. You're write quote, Mirror to the Sky,
the third and finest movement trilogy that began with Heaven
and Earth is not a resurrection. It is a culmination.
A chrystalis cracks not by nostalgia, but by heat and
pressure and a yearning to become more. I do hear
the excellence in this album as well. I wonder if
it's maybe because Davison has extended time in the band
(38:18):
allowed him to maybe find that strike zone. He's really
he's channeling John Anderson's spirit here. I think, what do
you think, Derek.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I think that's an excellent way of putting it. He
is finding that strike sound. He's comfortable with his role
in the band. He's comfortable as a writer, he's comfortable
as a singer obviously, and he's also comfortable with the
other members him and him and Billy Sherwood have worked
together a lot over the years and side projects. They
(38:48):
have worked together in their side project group, They have
worked together in tribute albums, and he also made an
effort during the Quest Ambrrus guy to physically go over
tangling and write with downs and write with how and
come up with collaborations. So that kind of melded the
(39:09):
band together behind the project. One thing that I note
about Yes, is that you can there's some albums that
they don't they've done, they don't like well, they don't
like an album, they don't talk about it, or they
talk badly about it and the press, which is a
little unusual. But the mirror this guy and the Quest,
you feel the passion from the band about the project.
(39:31):
They all seem to really love it and the Mirrordus
guy is difficult because one of their long tenure members
died before they started the production of the album, so
that was a huge loss.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
But Jay Shellen jumped in.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
He was on the tours anyway, most of the tours
for the prior three years before Alan died, so.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
He didn't really well.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Chapter eight is titled after a phrase Rick Wakeman once
came up with twiddly bits. What are twitdly bits? And
what are some of the best examples of others applied
to ys his best work.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I was told that that term actually came from Dave's
two of the rhythmics.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I'm gonna go with.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Rick Wakeman, okay?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
And I heard him during an interview when he was
talking about No it's actually one of his concerts. One
was solo concerts when he was talking about a song
that he had.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Done for somebody.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I don't remember the artists, but the artist said, well,
we need some we need to fill the song a
little out a little bit.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Rick, could you do something?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
He said, yeah, add some twitally bits here, twinly bits here,
add some little sparkles to the song. Uh. And Wakeman
was very good at that and I always loved that
song because you can hear that and it's playing where
he adds these little accents and fills that you may
not get from someone like Jeff Down's or if Igor
(40:55):
Kurashoff or or I don't know, Patrick Moras. Yeah, so
I like that that phrase. And I wanted to include
some songs which were not necessarily without John, but really
didn't have John. For example, Open your Eyes, which is
one of my favorite Yes albums, features John anderson leave vocal,
(41:19):
but according to him is Steve how they weren't really
involved in the production album that was Billy Sherwood. They
weren't involved even really get writing credit. They weren't involved
with the writing of the album that was really Chris
Squire Billy Sherwood.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
So I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Include some songs I thought really kind of fit the
motif of the book, but may have had Jon Anderson's vocal.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's a fun chapter.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I kind of like the songs, and you could talk
about I mean, I could have gone on and talked
about some of the songs from nine oh two one
five where Yeah, Anderson may have sang lead or said
on them that he really had very little to do
with the songs.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Podcast will be back after this.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Future. Hey guys, thanks so much for checking out the
Booked on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
share on social media and let people know about Booked
on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
(42:23):
listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
tune in in on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. A lot of these albums without John
(42:45):
Anderson hold up against the John Anderson years. In other words,
if you're gonna rank every Yes album, do you have
some of these above John Anderson albums?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Oh? Yeah, absolutely yeah. But there's some great John Anderson albums.
Drama is my favorite Yes album, and that's weird because
favorite period. Wow close to the edge, Drama's here, edge
is there? I love Drama and I think the synth
(43:13):
sounds hold up. The guitars are mean, Steve how plays
and butt off. I love the synth sounds, I love
the good I love the drums, I love the bass parts.
It works on all It's a band album, works on
all cylinders, So I would say yeah, Drama, and I'll
probably say Mirror to the Sky.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Is close to the top of my Yes albums.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
In terms of John Anderson Yes albums, you can't go
wrong with Close to the Edge, you can't go wrong
with Free Layer. I like Fragile a lot. I still
like the solo songs of Fragile as much, and the
Yes album is a great album.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
They're touring off of Fragile right now.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yes. I'm going to see them in a few weeks here.
Haven't seen them in by three or four years.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
So that'll be good.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Oh cool. Where are you from.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
I'm in Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, okay, yeah, Atlanta, Georgia. Now, the present state of
Yes is fascinating to me. It's such as the present
state of Yes, but where they're going to be going
from here, because this is an interesting discussion just for
all of these bands that came out in the sixties
and the seventies, you write in chapter nine, quote to
understand the present state of Yes is to confront a
(44:26):
rare story in modern music, one not driven by nostalgia
or the mirror a restation of past glories, but by
an ongoing process of creative survival. Where other bands grew
brittle with time, Yes absorbed change and turned it into continuity.
The current lineup Steve How on guitar, the legend, the
(44:49):
living Legend, Jeff Downs on keyboards, John Davison on lead vocals,
Billy Sherdword on bass, Jay Shellon on drums. Steve How
not an original myth, but he's been there since nineteen seventy,
so he's the man. They are about to launch a
tour this fall, Like I mentioned, we're gonna be playing
all of the iconic nineteen seventy one album Fragile. But
(45:12):
you feel that the spirit of this band in the
beginning lend perfectly to the idea that they should continue.
They can continue no matter who's in the lineup, because
that's kind of a grateful dead thing. It's the actual
essence of the music itself that is really going to
carry on through the generations to come, which not every
(45:35):
band I think can do. But I think here you
have that.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I mean Rick Wakem was famous for saying something to
the effect of Yes can continue can be like a
symphony orchestra. Will you bring in different players, add their
sensibility to the music, but you keep the heritage and
the music moving forward. And I think that's true. I
mean you have there is no new band member and Yes,
and Jay Shall has been around for five years and
(46:01):
he's worked with Billy Sherwood for thirty years. Jeff Dannels
has done I don't know six or seven albums with
Yes so far.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Then you have John Davison.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Who's been lead vocalist on three albums, not counting the
live albums he's saying on and Steve Hauspinner for fifty
some years. So they earned the right to do this music.
And they're still moving the bar forward in terms of
enjoying good new music while honoring the past. So you
(46:34):
have those fans who say, I only want to see
these certain people, but that's just not going to happen.
We're lucky to have this music continue to move forward.
And the prospect of twenty twenties six of having new
music is really thrilling.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Quite frankly, is Steve Howe the guy who makes all
the decisions, business decisions or the future of the band, like,
I hate that. I hope it's not anytime soon. But
when he's gone, what happens? Who makes those calls?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I don't think Steve how is solely in charge of that.
I think is a collaboration, but clearly with Alan White
gone now and Chris Squire gone, Steve Howe has tremendous influence.
He's produced the last two albums. I don't know if
he's produced on the new album. I guess is he's
probably producing it, But I mean the Howard dynamics and
(47:23):
gas has changed over the years.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Anyway, When you.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Had how you had really Anderson Squire being a focused
the Anderson how then Anderson then Raven and how then
shifts back and forth.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So who knows a lot of changing parts. But it'd
be nice to see John Anderson maybe come back for
at least a song or two. Yeah, no, you don't
see it happening.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
I've seen Anderson live two times and it was enjoyable
both times, and he has a great career. His album
with the ban Geees was fanned fantastic and he's been
working on I can't remember the last name of the
last album he did with a full band. He's been
working on a part two of that album, wherever that was.
(48:13):
He's he mended fences with Squire before Squire died and
howarding him talk. So is that hossible that he will
ever appear in stage with them? It's possible. Neither one
of them, neither Camp discounts that. But in terms of
continuing to move is it four with new albums. They're
(48:34):
very happy with John Davison and they want to continue
with that as long as they can. And you're right,
how is what he's seventy eight. I think he's older. Yeah,
So they won't go on forever with him, but they
may go on forever.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
But they may go on forever, which is the point,
is yeah, that it's the music itself that's going to
outlive those who have been in it in the past
and who are in it right now. Yes, in details
from Yes without Anderson. It's out now and you can
find it wherever books are sold. And you said look
forward at your nearest bookstore very soon. And yeah, independent
bookstores look for it there. You can go to bookdown
(49:10):
rock dot com to find your nearest independent bookstore and
people can find you online.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Preston Ware, I am at Slang Ofages dot Comslangofages dot com.
That's also the title of my podcast where I talk
about my favorite albums and interview artists. So it's there
for someone on Instagram under sling of ages, podcasts and
Facebook and texts.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Prestin Fraser, thanks so much for coming back on. Look
forward to having you back on again in the future.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Good to talk to.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
You are always a pleasure to take care.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
That's it. It's in the books.
The music of Yes without John Anderson? Does it stand
up to the John Anderson years? What do the fans think?
What do the critics think? We're gonna explore all of
that next with author Preston Fraser. I'm booked on rockto
rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I mean, I'll leave you.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
You're reading little Hands this, It's time.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
To rock and roll roll.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
I totally booked.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast
for those about to read and rock. We have a
returning guest to the podcast, author Preston Fraser. He has
a brand new book out now titled Yes Indeed Tales
from Yes Without John Anderson. Preston, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Eric is good to be here. Of course, I've been
listening to Booked on Rock a lot, especially like the
episode you had recently bought ric Ocasek. I was wondering
if you guys who want to talk about the use
of the drum machines so planning their David Robinson for
the last three albums, but you never got a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So I did notice that the sound of the drums
changed drastically with the mud Laying album Heartbeat City and
then Door to Door yep. And yeah, then the one
from twenty eleven move like this.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I saw that tour. Actually, that was fantastic. They were
great with no bass player.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
With no bass player. Yeah, yeah, thanks so much for
listening to the podcast. I really appreciate it. And this
one is an interesting one. Before we get into the book,
you dedicated to quote the five percent for something fans.
Who is the five percent for something fan?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, that's a phrase which came from Mark Anthony k
who's in the book, and Kevin Maulryan, who chaired the
Yes music podcast. And I think you're taking it from
the song five percent for Nothing from the Fragile album
of Bill Bruffer Trap, where that song, even though instrumental,
talks about really how man get money for doing nothing
(02:02):
but pardon. Yes fans called themselves five percent or something
because they love the band and they're a small minority
who know the entire catalog.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The book focuses specifically on the ears of Yes without
their iconic frontman John Anderson. I'm really curious as to
what inspired you to focus on these specific eras.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Wow, man, that's that's a good question.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
You're a fan of the underdog.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm a fan of the Underdog, and I'm a fan
of these albums, but Eric, quite frankly, there are a
lot of great Yes albums, Yes books.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I'm Tim Morris, who is a.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Wonderful progue artist who I interviewed a while ago, has
a wonderful book on Yes. I know you've interviewed some
people who have written books on Yes, Stephen Lamb.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Stephen Lamb and.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Also the guy who did the book on was a
Death Leopard God.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Jimber is her name now.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
But there are a bunch of great, how great books
on Kevin maul Ryan of Yes Music podcast in a
book on Tales from Topographic Oceans recently, which is a
wonderful book. So I didn't want to retread those. I
also didn't want to talk about something that everyone talks about.
We know you're going to talk about Fragile Close to
the Edge nine two one five, So why should.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I do that.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I want to do something totally different, which is what
I think I did.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And I think it's going to bring out some interesting
debate among YES fans once this gets out there. The
book just came out right.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Right, It just came out. It's available right now, I
think on Amazon. But pretty soon it will be an
all major retailers, physical and digital.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Okay, yeah, yeah. It will be interesting to see some
of the comments that the longtime Yes fans make regarding this,
because it's going to be an interesting debate as to
how these years stand up to the John Anderson years.
The opening chapter covers the nineteen eighty album Drama. That's
the first one. It's their tenth studio album, but the
only to feature Trevor Horn on lead vocals and the
(03:59):
first Jeff Downs on keyboards. A wonderfully written opening, I'm
gonna quote you here, you write quote. In the autumn
of nineteen eighty, as dusk settled over London's foggy streets,
the air carried a secret promise of change, promised that
the familiar might yet be reborn. For Yes, a band
long defined by its intricate progressions and sprawling epics, that
(04:20):
night was the quiet prelude to a transformation both unexpected
and inevitable. The stage was set not in a grand arena,
but in the collective determination of its members, a determination that,
despite internal fractures and the loss of cherish icons white
John Anderson and Rick Wakeman, the creative spirit of yes,
would not only endure but evolve wonderfully written. Wanted to
(04:43):
quote you directly on that one before we get into
the album. What led to the departure of John Anderson
and keyboardist Rick Wakeman.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Right, I think it was because of these I think
it was nineteen seventy nine or nineteen seventy eight, the
Paris sessions that they did with Roy Thomas Baker, who
died a few months ago. I mean they were working
on an album in Paris. It was Anderson, Wakeman, how
Squire and White. They had completed some rough tracks and
(05:13):
then I believe Alan White, their their late drummer, went out.
Uh went roller skating, disco skating. It broke his ankle.
So they decided to wrap up the album. They wrap
up the sessions, but it was thought that Anderson and
Anderson and Wakeman really weren't feeling the music. They weren't
(05:34):
enjoying the sessions. They were kind of burnt out and
they wanted to do their own things. So they both
went in their way to do solo albums, and that
led to a situation where, uh, where Squire said, well
I want to continue, how do you want to continue?
Whye do you want to continue and they said yeah,
So they found the Buggles and integrated the Buggles Jeff
(05:54):
Downs and Trevor Horn into the band.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And the Buggles known for video Killed the Radio Star,
famously known for that song song.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And two great, two really good albums by Jeff and Trevor.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, I've heard about that. I got to listen to them.
I've heard that. Let's talk about the soul single from
the album, which is Into the Lens. Interesting comment, I'm
hoping you can expand on you write quote. It was
as if the band, through this song, invited its listeners
to look deeply into the reflective surfaces of memory and change,
to witness the subtle alchemy of loss transforming into innovation.
(06:29):
This is referring to both the complexity and the power
of the track.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right Into the Lens is a wonderful song. Well quite frankly,
I love every song on Drama. It's one of my
favorite Yes albums. It's not my favorite, but Into the
Lens is a great song because it could. It binds
so many great progressive elements, so many great pop elements,
and it has such wonderful guitar nuance playing to the
(06:56):
album to the song. One thing I like about Drama
is that at How doesn't do what's expected, nor does
fled Matter Chris Squire know that, nor did he ever
do that. It is really subtle, but it's different. It
is progressive. I talked to John Anderson a few years
(07:17):
ago about his album with ron A Stolt. I think
it was called what was it called like the Miracle
of Life or something like that was a d what album?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And I asked him what was progressive music?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And I really appreciate the album that he'd done with Royna,
and he said, well, progressive music mus are always progressive,
always moving forward.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And I think into the.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Lens and Drama shows that where it's a band that
didn't want to recreate fragile, they want to create close
to the edge, but wanted to move forward.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
They really did.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What was the response to the album from the fans
and the critics and how did the perceptions kind of
shift in the years following its release.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, I don't remember where it charted.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
They charted pretty well though in America and in England,
but I think that a lot of fans weren't aware
initially back when it was released that Anderson and Wakeman
no longer in the band, and a lot of people
bought it and initially thought it was just okay, or
it was not okay because it wasn't John and Eric Wakeman.
(08:22):
I think over the years it has definitely gained a
following fans. A lot of fans point to this as
being one of their favorite Yes albums, and I think
when they toured, they toured maybe it was five years
ago for a topographic drama tour with one part drama.
The first part of the show drama in its entirely,
(08:44):
the second part teal some topographic oceans in its entirety,
and those songs were really well received by the audience.
And also the Topographic Drama live release is a wonderful
live release, probably one of the best live leases for
a band has a lot of live releases. So it
has definitely gained favor among Yes fans, especially those who
(09:07):
were you know, who are open to new singers and
new ideas, and even those who said there's no Yes
about John Andison, some of them have fall into the
fold you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Not a lot of people knew that John Anderson was
out of the band, and it may sound surprising if
you're a younger listener right now. But in those days
you're talking pre Internet, so you'd only find out about
that maybe in a in a trade magazine. Maybe Rolling
Stone would write about it. But if at that time,
I don't know how popular Yes really was. The popularity
is starting to wig a little bit in terms of mainstream,
(09:39):
wasn't it, So they may not have gotten the coverage.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I think Tormado, which was the album before this, before
the paras sessions, did reasonably well. But again, like you're
exactly right, there's no Internet back then. You would find
out about bands from Rolling Stone or Circus or wherever
you were reading.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And then this.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Album did reasonably well in America, and the tour where
they took Trevor Horn and Jet Downs on the road
also did well in America, but in Europe they were
peckle a lot. Where's John, Where's John? Where's Reck? So
they did good business, but the feedback of the fans
(10:22):
was a little bit negative. They toured this album initially,
and that was probably part of the reason why Horn
decided he didn't want to continue with Yes, and he
wanted to go into production, and they went their separate ways.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, that's what's interesting Trevor Horn doesn't sing on another
Yes album, but he's not out of Yes entirely. In fact,
he's part of a huge commercial peak era of Yes.
Before getting into the twenty eleven album Fly from Here,
talk about what happened with the band and Trevor Horn
Following drama.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Trevor Horn decided that he wanted to be a producer.
He didn't like being on stage. He liked writing, and
he still does that a lot actually, and he had
some race success with writing was Seal and with some
other artists, but he didn't want to be the focal
point on stage and Yes wanted a front man, even
(11:10):
though Chris Wire could see most of the parts. And
there was some talk also later when we get to
when you talk about nine on two one five about
Trevor Ravens singing the parts. But Horn didn't want to
do this. He went into production, and at that time
Yes was kind of fractured, and you had Jeff Downs
(11:30):
and Steve Howe working together. Jeff Downs had a concept
of a new band and he took it to Steve
House saying, hey, why don't we do a supergroup? You
me Simon Phillips on drums and we'll find a bass player,
and that band eventually became Asia with of course Carl Palmer,
(11:51):
Steve how John Wetton, and Jeff Downs.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And then there was a project Cinema right, and that
was a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
It was centem Up. It's about the same time where
Chris Squire and Alan White that partnership which remained till
really Chris gre died, wanted to continue with some sort
of music. So they reached out to Jimmy Page who
was looking for projects. And Paige, of course had led
(12:23):
Zeppelin was over and he wanted to do something. He
wanted to write, he wanted to produce, he wanted to
play live, so Born Downs not Notckdowns. So then Squire
and White worked with Jimmy Page. They recorded, did some jams,
worked on a few songs, and then then what happened
(12:48):
was that Jimmy Page decided, hey, we need a singer.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I know this guy. He's really good.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
He was a led Zeppelin. Let's get Robert Plant in there.
And Robert Plant said there's no way. He just didn't
want to do it. They wanted to try to recreate
any of led Zeppel stuff. Wasn't ready to go back
into doing group work. So that kind of dissolved, and
then Chris Quire said, well, I heard about this other
singer and guitarist from South Africa named Trevor Raven.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
They brought him in.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
He had a whole bunch of songs partially written, some
completely written, and they decided to do a band called
Cinema and then decided, hey, we need to keep our player.
What about we go back and ask this guy who
was the original keyboard or player of Yes. Tony Canyon
joined us, and he did for a little bit. They quit,
(13:37):
then he came back.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That is a spot on great job right there pressing,
because that is so complicated to go back to that period.
It's like trying to draw lines and connect these connect
the dots to who's and who and how. But yeah,
eventually the record label, I think, was saying to we
need to call this yes. From a commercial standpoint, we
got to call this yes. And then John Anderson comes
(13:59):
back kind of reluctantly.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well I don't know how reluctant it was. I'm not
sure where John Anderson was when he was going back
to Yes. Man, I'm not sure which album was he
had coming out. He was never a person who really
set the world of fire in terms of solo sales
besides the alliance of Sun Hillo. But he always had
a vision. And when he went back to your point,
when he went back, when he went back to Yes
(14:24):
with Cinema bicame Yes. He Most of these songs had
already been written completely written.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Some had.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Most of them had lead vocals by Trevor Rabin, some
had lead vocals by Chris Squire. So the album was done.
And what Anderson did for a few songs he added
a word or two or phrase, and he got writing credits.
And then he added his vocals to most of the songs.
(14:55):
And there's still a few songs of nine on two
one five where Trevor Rabin, like UH changes for example,
where Trevor Rabis sings the most most of the song,
but Anderson's voice is there and he became an integral
part of the Yes. The other part, and I know
we're getting away from from UH drama a little bit,
but the other part is that Rabin and Jeff Rabin
(15:20):
and Trevor Horn weren't really buddies, and Rave and Trevor
Horn and Anderson didn't really get along very well, so
it made it a little bit more complex. Then you
had the added drama, if you will, of Tony k
joining the band when most of the key word parts
were played by Rabin. Then he left the band because
(15:41):
he was upset with some things, and he came back,
so all that, Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Drama.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Podcast will be back after this.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't
call me surely.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So Anderson he stays with Yes. Big Generator came after
day seven, so they had They had a really good
run there commercially speaking, through the rest of the eighties.
Then they disbanded again in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And did them nine two five Big Generator. Then there
was another split. Part of it was because a Big
Generator was so difficult to make. It started and I
think Paris or somewhere in Europe with Trevor Horn getting
(16:31):
the basic tracks down, and there was a lot of
conflict between Anderson and Horn and also Horren and Raven.
Then they moved to America. I think they went to
la and a bunch of studios in La and Horn
that Horn was pretty much gone by then and Trevor
Raven took over most of the production.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Uh, they were recording and recording.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And recording, and by the time they hit the road
for a big generator, they were kind of burnt out already,
and after big Generators they just said, now we just
need to take a little break here, and they took
a little break and there was another splint splinter and
the van reformed. Part of it being Andreson Bruf of
(17:13):
Wakeman how, part of it being the Olds, which is.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Which well, actually it's not true.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Part of it was being Andison Bruf Wakeman. How. I
think that was kind of going into the Talk era. No,
that's not even right idea, because then we had the
Union album.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Union was nineteen ninety one, right.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Union Happened, which despite his title, isn't really a union
because it's really two separate bands. And I think there's
a part of the book where I talked and maybe
the Kit and Kobodo part where I talk about some
of the Union songs, because those are really songs without
John Anderson's production input, lyrical input. He may have sang
(17:52):
on them, but he wasn't involved in their creation.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Then the album Talk in nineteen ninety four, barely remember
that it has John Anderson on It didn't do well.
The single The Calling.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, that was an interesting album too, because they were
kind of looking for a new sound and new record
company and new management and they went with I think
it was Victory Records, which didn't have many artists involved
with it, but it was a friend of their then
man manager. And the album was produced by Raven, mostly
(18:26):
written by Raven and Anderson, with one collaboration with Chris
Squire and also one collaboration with the singer from Super Tramp,
Roger Hodgson. But the label didn't really promote it because
they had no money and it really died. And the
(18:47):
tour for Talk, which featured Billy Sherwood on second guitar,
keyboards and bass tour didn't do well either because people
didn't know about it.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, they had then they had Opened Your Eyes. The
Ladder would have been studio album number eighteen Magnification.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Actually John Anderson's on that one, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Is everything till we get back until Fly, Until we
get back to Fly from here.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And that's yeah, that's where we're at now with the book, right, Yeah. Yeah,
So a lot a lot happens in those years between
Drama and twenty eleven's Fly from Here. Yes, his twentieth
studio album. This features the first and only appearance of
is it ben Wah David, ben Wah David, ben Wah David, Yeah,
(19:38):
lead vocals.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And one thing I did in the book Eric was
I talked about Fly from Here, I did not talk
in detail about the Return Trip five to Here the
Return Trip, And they're really the same album, but one
features ben Wah Davis David the original, and then the
other one feature Tranfer Horn on vocals replacing ben Wan David.
(20:03):
Were here raised all of ben Wan David's vocals. He
remixed the album and they reissued the album during there.
I think it was around their fiftieth anniversary times. So
it's really the same album. But I prefer the original
which had ben Wan David and ben Wan David did
appear on the EP from a page. But I don't
think you can even find Fly from Here the original
(20:28):
on download you Maybe I find a CV of it,
but not a download.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
You're right, I don't think that's on streaming services. I
think it's the other version, yeah, the Return Trip, Yes,
you're right. I think though if you go on to
YouTube it might be there, maybe possibly, so you write
quote for Yes. The path to Fly from Here was
strewn with challenges and moments of quiet revelation, talk about
what led to the album, why John Anderson was not involved,
(20:52):
and then how do they find Ben Wah?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Ben Wah was a singer and a cover I did
Yes This Yest covers, and Chris Squire used to consider
him a personnel director free as he found keyboardist, he
found guitarist uh and he saw Ben want David I
think it was YouTube and he liked his vocal delivery.
(21:19):
Give us a situation where they wanted to go out
on tour, but Anderson had a very serious medical condition
where he could have come came close to dying, and
they had the tour all lined up. It was with
it was supposed to be Anderson, Squire White and I
(21:39):
believe at the time it was supposed to be wake
Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe. Anderson couldn't do the tour
and they thought, okay, we're going to cancel the tour.
Then they thought, well, we have these days booked. We
don't want to lose all this money and goodwill. So
they asked Anderson, is okay if we hire a singer
temporarily to come men and sing the songs while you recover.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And he said okay, and.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
They got Ben One David from like I said, Chris
Squier saw him. Then. As as the preparation went on,
Rick Wakeman could not do the tour. He had some
other obligations and he recommended Steve Howe recommended, why don't
we use Oliver Wakeman your son, and Oliver Wakeman's a
(22:26):
brilliant keyboardist. That Oliver and Rick Wakeman are going to
on tour together next year twenty twenty six. The brilliant keyboardist,
brilliant composer, he can do the parts, said he said, okay,
we'll bring him in and we'll have Ben Wall David there.
So Oliver was expecting work with John Anderson, came in,
(22:46):
we started working with Ben war David. They practice and
they got that together. And as a tour went on,
it was clear that John Anderson could not join the tour.
He was not physically able to do that. And then
the decision was made by the band We're just gonna
continue with Ben One, David and h and so it
was a little upset obviously.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And the seeds of this album they start with a
late night conversation between bassist Chris Squire and Trevor Horn,
who produced the album. There's a long dormant demo from
the pre Drama days that they bring back.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, there is uh.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
During the Drama tour, they did the Fly from Here
Sweet live but never recorded it in studio, and there
are some live recordings of that Sweet. In fact, there
is a box set, a five disc box set by
Yes officially by Yes, which features that Sweet, which features
Trevor Horn singing.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
That song live from You're Sweet.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
So they liked that song, and they had written some
songs already with Oliver Wakeman and Olivia Weakeman. I had
also written some songs for the band to contribute to.
But they decided, hey, why don't we just go with
this Fly from Here suite. We'll expand it, we'll make
(24:06):
that into a album and we'll go from there.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
And at one point, while.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
In the studio working with the band, because Oliver was
still in the band Alive waken was still in the band,
they decided, or really was Trevor Horne said, why don't
we bring Jeff Downs in because Jeff Downs wrote some
of these songs, Most of these songs. He contributed the
original keyboard parts. He knows them, he'll be a good addition.
(24:34):
So they asked Oliver Wakeman to step aside, basically fired him.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
A nearly twenty five minute obty Seed divided into six parts,
and you say capture the full spectrum of Yes, his
musical and emotional journey. How do you feel about ben
WA's vocals on that album? Obviously you write about that
version in the book and not the other, so I'm
assuming you're a fan.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I'm a favorite of ben Wi David.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I've seen him live I think three times with Yes.
He has an He's Canadian French. Canadian and frenchis's first language.
He speaks English obviously, but he has an ad set,
but he really has a good control. He worked his
range really well on that album. I'm a big fan
of this and what I got. I did buy the
(25:17):
Return Trip when they came out during their fiftieth anniversary
celebration and it's still good. But I can't erase in
my mind the original. I just love the original well.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The Sweet Stood is the centerpiece of this album. There
are tracks on the album that you say unfold like
individual vignettes, talk about some of the highlights from this,
you know, Solitaire's one where Steve Howe's virtuoso guitar skills
are unfull display. The guy's brilliant What are some of
the other tracks you're a fan of?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I would say probably my favorite song on Fly from
Here is Into the Storm, and I think that is
the only group composition that the entire group war with
Oliver Wakeman. It's just a wonderful, froggy song. It has a.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Harmony lead vocal.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think it's Chris Squire and how and ben Wan David,
but in this in this form is probably my favorite song,
and it's a great frog epic. Another standout track is
the Man You've Always Wanted Me to Be. And this
is a little bit different from what you would expect
from Yes, because it really is a rock, soft rock song.
(26:34):
It is not doesn't have that many prog elements, but
it really has great lyrics, great acoustic and electric guitar,
and it also features Chris Squire on lead vocal and
not ben Wan David, and it's a great vocal by
Squire and the song just really works well.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Preston Fraser, the author of Yes Indeed, Tales from Yes
without John Anderson.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
I love that title.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So what happened with Ben Wong? Only one album.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Wow, one out well one half albums.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Ben Wah had the same some of the same issues
that John Anderson had. He had a I think it
was a respiratory infection, and so he was struggling through shows.
He during some of the shows he was he couldn't sing.
He had trouble singing period, and they thought that they
(27:31):
will give him a break and maybe bring someone else
in temporarily. They say with John Anderson and uh, they
decided no, We're not going to continue with them. So
they decided to not to continue with Ben Wah, and
they seeking another singer and they brought in John Davison.
They brought in John Davison, another singer who oh he
had a background working with other bands as well. Uh,
(27:53):
he was a big friend, a good friend, maybe his
best friend. Of the drummer from the Food from the
Food Fighters, I think it's Taylor Hawkins and had a
really good pedigree and he can handle the riggers of
the road as well as the high vocals that let
Yes fans expected. Another thing about Yes is they really
(28:16):
didn't change the keys to their songs.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
They haven't done that.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
A lot of bands, especially Bins, which had been around
for twenty thirty forty years, change the keys because it's
hard for seventy year old man to sing songs that
he was singing in the seventy Oh yeah, hard for
thirty ye old man the songs were seting. But Yes
doesn't do that. So he can handle the riggers of
the road and he can write, and Ben want David
(28:39):
could write, but not really wasn't nearless prolific as John
Manderson or John Davison, And three.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Years later studio album number twenty one for Yes, the
first with John Davison, is Heaven and Earth.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Heaven and Earth, Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
The final album to feature Chris Cryer, right.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
The last Chris s Guire album, the first with John Davison,
in a return of Roy Thomas Baker to production up
actually now the return because he never actually produced a
full album. He never did the pair of sessions, just
a few songs.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
He produced the Cars and of course Queen.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And he produced great albums with the Cars and great
album with Queen, but he didn't produce a great album
with Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, Well what happened?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh okay, so there is a autobiography by Steve Howie
talks about Roy Thomas Baker. He seemed very disengaged with
the band in terms of giving them feedback. He seemed
to focus a lot more on the technology as opposed
(29:46):
to the arrangements and songs, and yes is a band
which from the beginning to today needs a very stronghand studio.
Sometimes that was John Anderson, sometimes that is Steve Howe,
sometimes it was Chris Squire. But they didn't have much
(30:09):
guidance in the studio, so the arrangements for Heaven and
Earth really weren't very well fleshed out. I think the
drum sound that Roy Thomas Baker got was pretty awful compared.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
To what he's done with other bands.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And also the keyboard arrangements needed will work. And according
to Steve how and Jeff Downs, they just didn't have
enough time to finish the album properly. They had a
tour commitment. They had to get the album the record,
but he won the album out before the tour and
that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And this was his last production credit before he passed away.
Was it really I would look I was looking it
up Roy Thomas Baker, Yeah, and for those who may
not be aware, we mentioned Chris Squire the last album
before he passed away. He passed away in twenty fifteen.
But Roy Thomas Baker, if you look at his discography,
that's the last one on there. That's it, Heaven and
(31:12):
Earth twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Man, that's a shame that he went out on an
album which is great. I mean, there are good elements
to the album, and there's some good songs, but the
arrangements are they're boring. The energy is so restrained and
the dramas don't jump out the.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Way they did in drama.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So yeah, John Davison's vocals, I think he gets better
with each album. On this one though, you do say
he arrived not to impersonate but to extend the spirit.
So satisfied with his performance on.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
The album, yeah, I think he does a great job
for his first album with a band of veterans who
are have a legacy. Roy Thomas Baker was very focused
on John Davison and he auto tuned every vocal that
John Davis. This did and according to Steve Howe's biography Autobiography,
despite the fact that John Davis was Davidson was perfect
(32:07):
pitch perfect and it never had a problem with his
pitch in the studio. But Roy Thomas Baker wanted to
process his vocals, and that's strange. He sounds well. The
hope before your process is strange. Still, the Davidson sounds
really good. The background vocals are really good. And that's
(32:28):
a weirdness around that too, because the backing vocals for
Heaven and Earth were produced and arranged and mixed by
Billy Sherwood, because by the time they got to the
mixing phase of Heaven and Earth, they had had enough
of Roy Thomas Baker did want him to mix it,
did want him to do the backing vocals, so they
brought in Billy Sherwood, who had worked with them on
(32:53):
Keustony Ascension one and two and also worked with them
one Union, And of course I toured with them for
the Top tour and Billy did finish the alt Mouth
for Booked.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
On Rock podcasts, We'll be back after this, I will.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
We can you, Jassy, I will be back.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Find the bookdown Rock website at bookednrock dot com. There
you can find all the back episodes of the show,
the latest episode in video and audio links to all
of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
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Speaker 4 (33:31):
Also check out the Booked on Rock blog.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
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hot rock book releases, and before.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
You go, check out the booked on Rock online store.
Pick up some booked on rock merch. It's all at
booked on Rock dot Com.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
We mentioned Squire's passing, there was some healing in the
process of revisiting some lost pieces. This is for the
mini album titled from a Page release in twenty nineteen,
for previously un release tracks from the lineup that was
from eight to twenty eleven. This was some healing, not
(34:07):
only for the band but also for fans.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, I want to go back to Heaven Earth for
a second, because there is a rumor that there are
unreleased tracks that feature Chris prominently on Heaven that were
recorded for Heaven their sessions that we haven't seen, including
one epic that Jeff Downs had written and the song
Subway Walls is so well written and played just poorly produced.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
For from a Page you have an energy that she
did not have on Heaven and Earth.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
You have other Awakeness keyboards front and center. You have
some really stinging the guitar from Steve Howe, and you
have some excellent vocals from Ben Wa David, who is
sitting in a slightly lower register than John Anderson did
or John Davison does. But it worked well had he
(35:01):
had four extremely strong songs which may for a good
half in the album. So the question is why couldn't
it continue that you get a full album out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
But that's the way it goes.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
October first, twenty twenty one, Yes release The Quest, the
band's twenty second studio album. John Davison is back on
lead vocals, and you write, quote the album's title, The
Quest is more than just a name, It's a declaration.
So tell us about the newest members of the band here.
How do you feel the music shows a band that's
evolving with every generation.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I think they were very hesitant to do a new
music after Heaven and Earth. Heaven and Earth soul reasonably
well and it had one single, I believe, but the
fans in retrospect don't particularly love that album. I don't
know many people are like the Heaven and Earth. So
they were hesitant to go back in his studio and
(35:53):
do something unless they were ready to do it, and
they wanted a firm hand on production, so they kept
an internal I mean, you have Steve Howell produced the
entire album.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
You have.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Of course, you have Alan White, they're still on drums
and Chris Squire on bass. That's sorry, Alan White still
on drums, but you don't have Chris Guire because he
unfortunately passed away. And you have Billy Sherwood back in
the band. Billy Sherwood was there as assignment for the
Talk tour and also contributed to Union and was a
(36:32):
member for the Ladder album as a guitarist. Here he's
back on bass, which I think is his preferred instrument.
That he's an excellent guitarist and also an excellent drummer,
and they worked on songs individually. Collectively, you have two
members who live in England, two I believe, one who lived,
(36:54):
two who live in the United States and one who
lived No three who live in the United States. So
we had the international he's going when they were flying
files back and forth digitally, and it's also during the
pandemic they were recording, so there was some challenges there,
but they came up with a pretty cohesive album with
(37:16):
really strong songs and excellent play. And I think it's
a stark difference between the drumming and the drum sounds
of The Quest and Heaven and Earth. Alan White, this
sounds so much better on The questing them to Heaven
and Earth, even though he was struggling with some physical
problems at that point, and.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
They already started working on what would become the next album,
Mirror to the Sky, before shortly before the release of
The Quest. That album, Mirror to the Sky, was released
in May of twenty twenty three, they would lose another
legendary band member, Alan White died in twenty twenty two.
We have Jay shellon on drums, John Davison back for
(37:55):
a third time. You're write quote, Mirror to the Sky,
the third and finest movement trilogy that began with Heaven
and Earth is not a resurrection. It is a culmination.
A chrystalis cracks not by nostalgia, but by heat and
pressure and a yearning to become more. I do hear
the excellence in this album as well. I wonder if
it's maybe because Davison has extended time in the band
(38:18):
allowed him to maybe find that strike zone. He's really
he's channeling John Anderson's spirit here. I think, what do
you think, Derek.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I think that's an excellent way of putting it. He
is finding that strike sound. He's comfortable with his role
in the band. He's comfortable as a writer, he's comfortable
as a singer obviously, and he's also comfortable with the
other members him and him and Billy Sherwood have worked
together a lot over the years and side projects. They
(38:48):
have worked together in their side project group, They have
worked together in tribute albums, and he also made an
effort during the Quest Ambrrus guy to physically go over
tangling and write with downs and write with how and
come up with collaborations. So that kind of melded the
(39:09):
band together behind the project. One thing that I note
about Yes, is that you can there's some albums that
they don't they've done, they don't like well, they don't
like an album, they don't talk about it, or they
talk badly about it and the press, which is a
little unusual. But the mirror this guy and the Quest,
you feel the passion from the band about the project.
(39:31):
They all seem to really love it and the Mirrordus
guy is difficult because one of their long tenure members
died before they started the production of the album, so
that was a huge loss.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
But Jay Shellen jumped in.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
He was on the tours anyway, most of the tours
for the prior three years before Alan died, so.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
He didn't really well.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Chapter eight is titled after a phrase Rick Wakeman once
came up with twiddly bits. What are twitdly bits? And
what are some of the best examples of others applied
to ys his best work.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I was told that that term actually came from Dave's
two of the rhythmics.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I'm gonna go with.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Rick Wakeman, okay?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
And I heard him during an interview when he was
talking about No it's actually one of his concerts. One
was solo concerts when he was talking about a song
that he had.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Done for somebody.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I don't remember the artists, but the artist said, well,
we need some we need to fill the song a
little out a little bit.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Rick, could you do something?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
He said, yeah, add some twitally bits here, twinly bits here,
add some little sparkles to the song. Uh. And Wakeman
was very good at that and I always loved that
song because you can hear that and it's playing where
he adds these little accents and fills that you may
not get from someone like Jeff Down's or if Igor
(40:55):
Kurashoff or or I don't know, Patrick Moras. Yeah, so
I like that that phrase. And I wanted to include
some songs which were not necessarily without John, but really
didn't have John. For example, Open your Eyes, which is
one of my favorite Yes albums, features John anderson leave vocal,
(41:19):
but according to him is Steve how they weren't really
involved in the production album that was Billy Sherwood. They
weren't involved even really get writing credit. They weren't involved
with the writing of the album that was really Chris
Squire Billy Sherwood.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
So I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Include some songs I thought really kind of fit the
motif of the book, but may have had Jon Anderson's vocal.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's a fun chapter.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I kind of like the songs, and you could talk
about I mean, I could have gone on and talked
about some of the songs from nine oh two one
five where Yeah, Anderson may have sang lead or said
on them that he really had very little to do
with the songs.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Podcast will be back after this.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Future. Hey guys, thanks so much for checking out the
Booked on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
share on social media and let people know about Booked
on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
(42:23):
listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
tune in in on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. A lot of these albums without John
(42:45):
Anderson hold up against the John Anderson years. In other words,
if you're gonna rank every Yes album, do you have
some of these above John Anderson albums?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Oh? Yeah, absolutely yeah. But there's some great John Anderson albums.
Drama is my favorite Yes album, and that's weird because
favorite period. Wow close to the edge, Drama's here, edge
is there? I love Drama and I think the synth
(43:13):
sounds hold up. The guitars are mean, Steve how plays
and butt off. I love the synth sounds, I love
the good I love the drums, I love the bass parts.
It works on all It's a band album, works on
all cylinders, So I would say yeah, Drama, and I'll
probably say Mirror to the Sky.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Is close to the top of my Yes albums.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
In terms of John Anderson Yes albums, you can't go
wrong with Close to the Edge, you can't go wrong
with Free Layer. I like Fragile a lot. I still
like the solo songs of Fragile as much, and the
Yes album is a great album.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
They're touring off of Fragile right now.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yes. I'm going to see them in a few weeks here.
Haven't seen them in by three or four years.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
So that'll be good.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Oh cool. Where are you from.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
I'm in Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, okay, yeah, Atlanta, Georgia. Now, the present state of
Yes is fascinating to me. It's such as the present
state of Yes, but where they're going to be going
from here, because this is an interesting discussion just for
all of these bands that came out in the sixties
and the seventies, you write in chapter nine, quote to
understand the present state of Yes is to confront a
(44:26):
rare story in modern music, one not driven by nostalgia
or the mirror a restation of past glories, but by
an ongoing process of creative survival. Where other bands grew
brittle with time, Yes absorbed change and turned it into continuity.
The current lineup Steve How on guitar, the legend, the
(44:49):
living Legend, Jeff Downs on keyboards, John Davison on lead vocals,
Billy Sherdword on bass, Jay Shellon on drums. Steve How
not an original myth, but he's been there since nineteen seventy,
so he's the man. They are about to launch a
tour this fall, Like I mentioned, we're gonna be playing
all of the iconic nineteen seventy one album Fragile. But
(45:12):
you feel that the spirit of this band in the
beginning lend perfectly to the idea that they should continue.
They can continue no matter who's in the lineup, because
that's kind of a grateful dead thing. It's the actual
essence of the music itself that is really going to
carry on through the generations to come, which not every
(45:35):
band I think can do. But I think here you
have that.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I mean Rick Wakem was famous for saying something to
the effect of Yes can continue can be like a
symphony orchestra. Will you bring in different players, add their
sensibility to the music, but you keep the heritage and
the music moving forward. And I think that's true. I
mean you have there is no new band member and Yes,
and Jay Shall has been around for five years and
(46:01):
he's worked with Billy Sherwood for thirty years. Jeff Dannels
has done I don't know six or seven albums with
Yes so far.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Then you have John Davison.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Who's been lead vocalist on three albums, not counting the
live albums he's saying on and Steve Hauspinner for fifty
some years. So they earned the right to do this music.
And they're still moving the bar forward in terms of
enjoying good new music while honoring the past. So you
(46:34):
have those fans who say, I only want to see
these certain people, but that's just not going to happen.
We're lucky to have this music continue to move forward.
And the prospect of twenty twenties six of having new
music is really thrilling.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Quite frankly, is Steve Howe the guy who makes all
the decisions, business decisions or the future of the band, like,
I hate that. I hope it's not anytime soon. But
when he's gone, what happens? Who makes those calls?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I don't think Steve how is solely in charge of that.
I think is a collaboration, but clearly with Alan White
gone now and Chris Squire gone, Steve Howe has tremendous influence.
He's produced the last two albums. I don't know if
he's produced on the new album. I guess is he's
probably producing it, But I mean the Howard dynamics and
(47:23):
gas has changed over the years.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Anyway, When you.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Had how you had really Anderson Squire being a focused
the Anderson how then Anderson then Raven and how then
shifts back and forth.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So who knows a lot of changing parts. But it'd
be nice to see John Anderson maybe come back for
at least a song or two. Yeah, no, you don't
see it happening.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
I've seen Anderson live two times and it was enjoyable
both times, and he has a great career. His album
with the ban Geees was fanned fantastic and he's been
working on I can't remember the last name of the
last album he did with a full band. He's been
working on a part two of that album, wherever that was.
(48:13):
He's he mended fences with Squire before Squire died and
howarding him talk. So is that hossible that he will
ever appear in stage with them? It's possible. Neither one
of them, neither Camp discounts that. But in terms of
continuing to move is it four with new albums. They're
(48:34):
very happy with John Davison and they want to continue
with that as long as they can. And you're right,
how is what he's seventy eight. I think he's older. Yeah,
So they won't go on forever with him, but they
may go on forever.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
But they may go on forever, which is the point,
is yeah, that it's the music itself that's going to
outlive those who have been in it in the past
and who are in it right now. Yes, in details
from Yes without Anderson. It's out now and you can
find it wherever books are sold. And you said look
forward at your nearest bookstore very soon. And yeah, independent
bookstores look for it there. You can go to bookdown
(49:10):
rock dot com to find your nearest independent bookstore and
people can find you online.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Preston Ware, I am at Slang Ofages dot Comslangofages dot com.
That's also the title of my podcast where I talk
about my favorite albums and interview artists. So it's there
for someone on Instagram under sling of ages, podcasts and
Facebook and texts.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Prestin Fraser, thanks so much for coming back on. Look
forward to having you back on again in the future.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Good to talk to.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
You are always a pleasure to take care.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
That's it. It's in the books.
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