October 12, 2025 • 54 mins
Dive into the fascinating tale of Pink Floyd's evolution with author Mike Evans as your guide. Discover the band's origins, peak in the 70s, breakup in the 80s, and triumphant return.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a look back at the history of Pink Floyd,
from Sid Barrett's visionary beginnings to the band's iconic seventies
run to their enduring legacy in the post Roger Waters era.
All that coming up next with author Mike Evans and
Booked on Rock. We're totally booked rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I mean, I'll leave you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
You're reading.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll, roll out.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I totally booked. Welcome back to book don Rock. This
is the podcast for those about to read and rock.
And we have a first time guest on the show.
His name is Mike Evans. He is the author of
Pink Floyd Behind the Music. Mike, Welcome to the podcast.
Great to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You point out in the introduction to how Pink Floyd's
a rarity among the bands who are part of the
progressive rock genre. Unlike most of them, Pink Floyd has
endured in the public consciousness. What do you think it
is about this particular bit and that sets them apart
from all the others that came up during that period.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I think, unlike some of the progressive rock bands, they
did they did developed with the times to a degree.
I mean, obviously they didn't absorb every trend that would
be that would be rather what we call phony, but
they but they developed, and they absorbed various developments in
(01:25):
both technically and and in the broad scope of rock music,
which some of the progressive bands got stuck in a
if you like, a progressive rut, and and they were
very much in our minds now as bands of the
seventies or whatever, whereas I think Floyd did spread out
(01:46):
for a variety of reasons that that that they encompassed
a lot more uh, I old say genres, but certainly
techniques and and aspects of rock music. Then and some
of the contemporaries.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Do you think the return of the band after Roger
Waters is a factor in continuing with the legacy among
new generations of fans, Because me personally, I was a
teenager growing up during the period of momentary lapse of
reason and then in college during Division Bell and there
was a resurgence of interest in Pink Floyd. Then do
you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah? I guess so. I mean, obviously it shows in
their varying sort of record sales and so on, but
also because they've been so enduring in one way or
another there if you like an antidote to things that
were more ephemeral, you know, trends that came and went.
(02:43):
Whereas their bit of an antidote to that, because they
became a fixture, even though it is never ever changing fixture.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Let's talk about the three eras, the Sid Barrett era,
the post Sid Barrett era, and the post Roger Waters era.
Original Pink Floyd was a different band in the beginning,
and they were led by Sid Barrett, and they had
Nick Mason, Roger Waters and Richard Wright. David Gilmore wasn't
in the band yet. They were lumped in with the
psychedelic scene early on. Was that an accurate label to
(03:15):
put on the band?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yes, because the psychedelic scene was. They were part of
the creation of that psychedelic scene. I mean I was
around in London at the time playing in a band,
and I remember they were on the horizon. They were
foooning around with various what became psychedelic gimmicks if you
(03:38):
like light shows and distortion in the guitar playing, and
let's say fantastical kind of lyrics which were mainly inspired
at the time by Sid Barrett. I mean interesting They
originated in Regent Street Polytechnica College in central London that
(04:01):
uh and I was a student there at the same time,
and I remember these guys practicing rehearsing in the basement
of the of the building I was in. Wow, And
of course I didn't know at the time they were
going to be a famous rock band. There were just
some guys that were in the architecture department I was.
I was in the sociology department and these guys were
in the architecture department. And it was only years later
(04:23):
it dawned on me that that these these guys were
they were they used to you know that they said
they related this to historians, since that they actually rehearsed
in the basement in this in this college.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Did you ever bump into those guys, did you?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I guess, I mean they were just you know, guys
hanging around. I mean, you know, college full of people
of similar age. You didn't take I must notice, but
I remember there was some music going on. And then
when I became involved in as a musician in the
in the in the in the later sixties, that they
(05:03):
became very a familiar, familiar face on the landscape. Even
before they became as famous as they did, and it
was the era, as I say, of people let's say,
writing fantastical lyrics and sort of spacey kind of lyrics
(05:25):
and psychedelic what became called psychedelic lyrics inspired either by
drugs or by associated sort of literature and the kind
of imaginative, imaginative subject matters which were Most of the
(05:48):
bands that came out of that mid sixties scene in
England were rhythm and blues bands, so they were R
and B bands playing basic blues or derivations of basic blues,
bands like the Stones and then later bands like Cream
and so on, whereas the Floyd from the start had
(06:10):
gone a step aside from that that they were blues
musicians in their basic music, because most were at the time,
they weren't school musicians, and Sid significantly was the only
one that came didn't come from this particular college they
(06:35):
were at. But he was an art student, as were
a lot of our rock heroes in the sixties in England.
Art school was a particular environment for people like John
Lennon and Pete Townsend, Dave Davis. There was a whole
kind of cultural melting pot because you know, he didn't
(06:57):
have to be as articulate as a as a student
of literature or something. So it LEDs itself to the
kind of kind of guys who were very open minds
to things. And and Sid Barrett obviously he was one
of those kind of one of those kind of characters.
And so he was in the first period he was
(07:19):
the most imaginative of the band in terms of lyrics
and so on.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, he brought that originality to the Pink Floyd sound.
You write quote from the start, since compositions featured distinctive,
often whimsical lyrics influenced by a variety of sources. And
you also talk about he had an edge to his songwriting.
What formed that approach? What bands was a fan of?
He read Lord of the Rings, that's right, yeah, right, yeah.
(07:44):
What were the bands that he was a fan of?
Was he more of an underground guy? He wasn't into
the Well, let's it that.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It became very quickly that there was a sort of
division in that rhythm and Blue Seat, and there was
a sudden division between the mainstream him blues if you like,
and the kind of underground scene that developed simultaneously. Clubs
like UFO in London was the main one, so there
(08:11):
was where there was a lot more experimentation going on
in a way. I mean, I suppose Cream were almost
a parallel because they were all the three of Cream
were solidly in that rhythm and blues scene, Jack Bruce
and Claptain and Ginger Baker, but the Cream environment allowed
(08:33):
them to expand instrumentally certainly into it's a lot more experimentation,
and they started writing songs with Pete Brown, the poet
who got away from the usual blues kind of twelve
bar blues sequence of lyrics and so on. And I
(08:53):
think that that expansive sort of attitude, experimental attitude, that's
what became dubbed the underground in clubs like Upho and they,
and that went along with things like the light shows
developed at the same time, which was a visual manifestation
(09:17):
on stage, and so the whole stage show I mean,
who for instance, were experiment were pioneers of broadening the
scope of stage shows, the way they presented their music,
and the kind of pile of technics involved in the music,
the actually dynamics of light and shade and the use
of volume and the use of distortion, and so that
(09:43):
old so called underground scene musically was a product of
these various changes that were occurring and coming together with
certain with certain key bands as Saying and Pink Floyd
was at the forefront of that. I mean they contemporaries
would people like Soft Machine and much if you're like,
(10:05):
much more influenced by jazz than than Pink Floyd. So
they're all part of that that melting pot.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Had you been to that club, the UFO?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, oh wow? Are the stories true that they would
hand out acid at shows? What was the pink guess?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I mean a lot of it was just stories on
in the rock press. You know, unless you were there
at the time, you didn't know. But I mean my
experience of playing the only played at once with we
were all sitting backstage drinking beer. But I mean, this
(10:43):
is like it was then. It was. It was a
very mixed kind of scene. So you know, your indulgence
might be alcohol, it might be drugs, it might be
smoking pot or whatever. But there was no there was
no strict divisions, so you know, you just kind of
took it for grant. What happened?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
What became of the club? Is it still there? Is it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
No? No? No, it's a bit. It came and went
within within a matter of a couple of years. Oh Jesus,
sixty sixty eight.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
It's got a legendary status among fans of Pink Floyd
in that era because it's always part of some story.
With Barret as their main songwriter, they did have two
hit singles, Arnold Lane c Emily Play, and then the
successful debut studio album The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.
That was all that from nineteen sixty seven. And this
(11:35):
was not something that said embraced. There's a highlighted quote
in your book where Sid said, if John Lennon doesn't
have to do Top of the Pops, why should I?
His mental decline was pretty rapid. Was it due to drugs?
Was it mental illness? Was it simply an artist who
rebelled against commercialism? Was it all of that combined? What
do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I think he's probably all of that combined. I mean,
the drugs obviously didn't help, but physically they were the
day were the main influence on his on his mental state,
uh in, the main detrimental influence on his mental state.
He wasn't the first and he wasn't the last, but
to have that kind of mental history.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
But he.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
There's a there was an awful, fatal, almost fatal combination
of sudden fame and and over indulgence. I mean it
happened to a number of rock stars. But but but
but with said, it was just more disastrous than than
with many, you know, and uh, it was a combination
(12:45):
of the of fame, and I mean without the fame,
he probably couldn't have afforded so many drugs, if you
like to look at it that way. And also because
the whole scene is full of hangers on and made
all that very easy. You know, it was very accessible.
And it's like it's been like that forever, you know,
(13:05):
on the kind of music scene, but fame, it's particularly
on somebody's quite young and still feeling their own way
in the world. I mean, these were just students. I
mean they were like, you know, eighteen nineteen year old.
They were kids, you know, comparatively speaking. And so if
(13:26):
you couldn't quite handle that, and it had to you know,
not just said Barrett, but you know, if you couldn't
handle that quite could you could spiral out in the
wrong direction, which unfortunately he did.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
David Gilmour's entrance into the band was somewhat transitional. He
was brought in while Sid was still in the band,
that's right. Now. He knew Sid Barrett already. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
they were friends. They knew each other from the music scene, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And from the art school. See I think, but because
Gilmour wasn't at the the same cause as the other three.
Uh and but he was already got a little name
for himself as a session player around the music scene,
so he already had his foot in the doors as
it were.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Do you think the guys in the band planned on
him being a permanent member, David, was that part of
the plan to transition him in.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
No, I think the plan was just as a kind
of not a replacement for Sid, but but somebody to
deputize for him while he wasn't while he was being
I feel like, unreliable. There were the hope was obviously
that he would sort himself out.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Okay, yeah, the hope was he would get better.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
But there was a point where Gilmore, Dave Gilmour was
in the band and Sid would still be on stage,
but his contribution was becoming less and less reliable, and
to the point where they'd switch they'd switch his amp
off because he was playing nonsense, and and Gilmour already
been started being a kind of reliable session player on
(15:04):
the studio scene. He was just a reliable voice to
have their often filling in on what Sid had done
on the original records.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Just yeah, there's a story. What's the talk show that
they were on? When Sid would as soon as their
cameras were on and they would ask Sid a question,
he would go completely quiet and say nothing, and then
they say cut hold on, and then they say, Sid,
you just got answered the questions a little bit. And
Sid was playing with him. He's like, oh, no, no problem,
no problem, I'll talk okay, let's do this again. And
then they turned the camera on and he would do
(15:36):
the same thing, shut down, not saying yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, it's just like like it was just it became
a totally it became totally unreliable, especially if you're trying
to handle that.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
There's been stories about years later where people would knock
on his door because they found out where he lived,
and he would open the door sometimes and be friendly
and sometimes would say please leave me alone. Stories that
he there was checks that would arrive and that he
would never cash publishing checks, like he wanted nothing to
do with the Pink Floyd past. What do you know
about that? Yeah, you've heard those stories.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I've heard some yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But he was very reclusive. Pictures of him around town
going to the art shop on his bicycle. Yeah, privately,
very sad because then people got intrusive pictures of him
taking his trash out. You know, it's very They try
to glamorize it almost like it was this fascinating story
that there was people couldn't refuse to really invest themselves into.
(16:34):
But like Roger Water said, it's a sad story. It's
a tragic story.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
There was that situation where he appeared as recording session.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I wish you were here, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And they didn't recognize him first when he came to
the studio. I mean, he was like such a It
reminds one of It reminds one of Jeremy Space, sir,
who's a Fleetwood Mac you know. He he he went
(17:07):
off at a tangent and joined the Children of God
at one of those quasi hippie religious groups in Los
Angeles and disappeared. You know, they never saw him agetting
for months. I mean he just disappeared off after the
music scene altogether.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That's a tough position to be in if you are
an artist and you do want people to enjoy your art,
but you are not in any way interested in being famous.
Like you like a certain amount of tension respecting your art.
People come up to you and say, I really love
what you did, and oh that's great, thank you, But
then complete strangers coming up to you and feeling as
if they know you. And at that point, like you said,
(17:49):
he's only eighteen or nineteen, he doesn't really know himself yet,
no exactly. You know, that's a it's a difficult position
to be in, and some have been able to transition that. Now.
He did do solo work. Sid and David produced it.
He did two solo albums. His last one was the
(18:09):
self titled or just called Barrett in nineteen seventy and
that was it. And then the friction between David Gilmour
and Roger Waters. I mean, I guess that started right
away reading your book. There were signs of that way
back on. There's a quote from David of his early
rehearsal sessions in the book. He says, quote, I actually
walked out of one of the first rehearsals, Roger had
(18:31):
got so unbearably awful in a way that I'd later
get used to that I stopped out of the room.
They had such a great chemistry together musically. But what
do you think was at the root of their battles
ego creative control?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I think he was the ego. I mean, I think
Roger having formed the band, the very very earliest version
of the band, pre the band, which didn't involve Sid,
and then suddenly Sid appeared with this kind of great contribution.
(19:07):
But but in a way it was. It was a
Sid band when it first started making records, And and
I think Roger suddenly the kind of control he had
over the of the very very original concept when they
were still in in the in the college basement, that
kind of control slipped away because because Sid was the
(19:30):
more immediate creative force that that that took over. And
I think subconsciously, if not if not consciously, Walters probably
resented that a bit, or at least missed the fact
that he was it was his band, and and and
when Sid, through his own problems, wasn't in the picture anymore,
(19:52):
I think Roger felt it was his natural inheritance to
take over, and and with the Gilmore being equally dynamic
in the whole process, that became a bit of a challenge.
So I think Roger Wilts has definitely had a problem,
even though it wasn't self consciously a problem, a problem
(20:15):
with that kind of challenge To say his authority is
a bit of too strong a word, but certainly of
his place in the whole creative process, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And by the end it seemed as if he did
have complete creative control by the time you get to
the final cut.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, he.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Wore the guys down. The classic Pink Floyd sound of
that period when Roger and David and Nick and Richard
are all really working together to put together that classic
sound that we hear on Dark Side of the Moon
and the Wall. That took some time. I mean, that
wasn't like it just came out right away. There was
a soundtrack album in nineteen sixty nine. More Umagoma came
(20:58):
out in sixty nine as well. Adam hart Mother in
nineteen seventy. David is quoting the book. When talking about
Adam hart Mother, he says, it's shit. The lowest point
artistically he had talk about those albums. What do you
think about that period as we lead up to metal,
you know, around that point when things start to shift
with the sound and get popular.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well, I think they there was that period when they
were showing various aspects of both what had been and
what was to come. I always felt that Adam Hart
Mother it was one of the defining albums of the
(21:40):
whole idea of the concept album. I mean, if only
because of the first side, which was just a sequence
of it was one it was you know, logged as
one number with various parts in it if you remember,
and and that just even that concept was like quite radical, uh,
(22:01):
and it this is what progressive rock was supposed to
be about. It. It was a kind of if you like,
for want a better word of thinking, thinking man's rock.
You know it it was quite sophisticated and having things
in uh, in movements if you like, like like classical
music might be. It was in those movements on the
(22:23):
on the first on side one, uh in a way
that kind of typified, uh, the seriousness, for one of
a better word of the progressive rock that that that
they took to composition and so on, and.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
They were all under the label Harvest up until Dark
Side of the Moon. Yeah, Yeah, so did Harvest support
that kind of creative ambition?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And yeah, because Harvest started off as a as a
kind of progressive label, and it started off to it
started off as EMI's attempt or success to absorb this
new progressive music on a separate label. You know, wasn't
it wasn't a rhythm blues rabel, It wasn't a pop label.
It was a progressive label.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Is it With nineteen seventy one's Metal where we start
to hear the band gel particularly the song Echoes is
one that we could point to as the moment when
Pink Floyd makes that shift.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. The thing was with them
with Metal that was highly experimental because they didn't prepare
anything beforehand, and they went in and each kind of
played a contribution which didn't know is work. But it
was this very idea of this kind of improvisation for
(23:51):
its own sake. If you like.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
One of these Days is another song you could point
to the darker side of Pink Floyd where things start
to to go. Obscured by Clouds was released in nineteen
seventy two. Interesting Country Field to most of that album,
and three four was the single which I remember here
in the States, classic rock radio played it from time
to time. But it sets up the album Dark Side
(24:15):
of the Moon, which I've said many times. I think
it's the greatest album ever just musically it's beautifully put together.
Of course, the music's gorgeous, it's brilliant, but the lyrics
they connect with everybody at no matter what age you are,
and as you get older you will connect with parts
of it even more so. You write, quote the genesis
(24:36):
of Pink Floyd's next album and their first non soundtrack
album since Metal in nineteen seventy one, flew in the
face of rock music convention.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
When you first heard themselves like Money and so, they
were so spectacularly memorable just in their own right. There
was nothing before or after it was quite the same.
It was a bit like a new beat album was
there was nothing to it wasn't even comparable to the
Beatles' previous album. It's a bit like that. So it's
(25:07):
kind of it's at a kind of uniqueness of its
own aways as if it was done by a different band.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Right the time. Signature and Money.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Exactly, and yeah, and the whole sound of it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, and lyrically the the whole concept. Roger I think
had that in mind at some point coming in that
he wanted to put something together about the human condition,
the fears that we have, the insecurities that we have,
the desires for things like money.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Well, yes, and he referenced in his own way the
mental problems that that siddered. Yes, he actually obliquely mentioned
and referred to all that.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, this is the first album where we start to
get the influence of Sid Barrett's experience start to enter
into the lyrics of the music.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
That's right, and in a way it was Roger's own,
even though he wouldn't admitted at the time his own insecurities,
if you like, or came out in that way that
that he was aware of his own failty or maybe
(26:20):
all our failties in the sort of context of this
bubble they are now in.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I can't imagine anybody predicting what would become of the
album in terms of the long term success, the long
term chart success of this album. You know, it stayed
on the charts or was it on the album charts
for however many years, I don't know's it's insane the
record that it's set. When you first heard it, what
(26:49):
was your response, did you think, Wow, I'm listening to
something really special here.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It certainly sounded special, It sounded I mean, there was
so much going on in the early seventies that it
didn't mean you didn't immediately assume this is more special
than various other things that were happening. But it was
certainly the actual sound. Its own sound was unique.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
It was.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
And it was certainly the most special thing that they'd done.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, do you believe any of the Wizard of Oz story?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Do I know this story? Oh?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
My god? So if you play, and you could go
to YouTube and you'll see this online and you can
watch for yourself, watch and listen. But if you start
Dark Side of the Moon at the third War of
the MGM Lion, there's all of these similarities. So like
when Dorothy's standing on the she's standing on the fence,
and you hear the lyrics balance on the biggest wave,
(27:45):
or as soon as you go into the song time
you hear them the cash register sounds. It's exactly when
Dorothy opens the door and everything turns to color. Who
knows which is which? And you see the two witches
I mean, there's all these things right right, and all
the band members have just said there's nothing. You know,
we had no idea, no idea behind it. But I
(28:06):
I always, I always say that they didn't do that intentionally.
Which makes it even more fascinating to me, is that
the fact that you can have these synchronicities, these coincidences
without even trying. Then you start to wonder if there's something,
if something bigger out there that's all in the strings.
You could check it out on YouTube back in the day.
(28:27):
I had to go to eBay and somebody put it
on a VHS and I watched it. It's pretty fascinating. Yeah,
Pink Floyd Behind the Music is the book we're talking
with author Mike Evans. While the band was personally very
enthusiastic about what they had created, they were apprehensive as
to the reaction from critics and fans regarding Dark Side
(28:48):
of the Moon. We know the overwhelming response, but why
do you think it still connects today with such a
huge audience.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
The sums for all that complexity very accessible, you know,
they don't. They didn't. They weren't trapped into one genre.
They'd gone past just being progressive rock. You know, this
is this is clever, this is whatever. They were very
(29:16):
accessible songs. You can actually huld them in your head,
which is always a kind of that was the old
formula for good pop tune. But but you know, you
could actually hear them in your head, and they're accessible
in that way. And and as I said, production wise
(29:37):
and everything that was so strong they stood the test
of time. You know.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the book
down Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
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(30:09):
tune in, and on YouTube music. You can check out
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episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. The album cover done by Storm thorguson
Aubrey Pollen Hypnosis and I believe they did twelve of
the fifteen studio album covers for Pink Floyd, most notably
(30:33):
Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, another
one with the two businessmen on fire, and I would
also put the iron Beds on the beach for Momentary
Lapse of Reason up there as well, another classic cover
and some great stories behind that. I think the first
day of shooting it was a storm, so they literally
had to take all of the iron beds off the beach.
(30:55):
I'm back on again the next day, and it wasn't
like photo trickery. If Storm Ferguson came out today, during
the streaming era, where album covers are just not as
significant as they once were, would people even know about them?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Well exactly. I mean it was an era when album
covers were almost as memorable as the music, the music inside.
I mean they were again, they were of the time
where the whole concept, or if you like, the whole
(31:33):
piece of work, the music therein and the album cover
were one and the same. I mean, you know, we're
all familiar with the Beatles and the Stones and their
album covers that held that kind of significance but stoked
aoguson technically, the interesting thing is that as computerized technology
(32:00):
became more and more apparent or more usable, and what
you now is out of date anyway, things like photoshop,
and that you never used any of that. He refused
to use that. He actually he actually made the things
on the cover happen. I mean, you know, by ways
and means a bit like in movies. You know, you
(32:22):
had special effects before, you had before you had computer
generated effects before CGI.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Those two guys are actual people, you know, the two
guys on Wish You Were Here?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And I think maybe one of the guys said, even
though they put something on them to protect them from
getting burns, I think they did get a little bit
of a burn and it was all these crazy stories
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Did it like a filmmaker would in those at that time.
You know, you've got a stunt man. You didn't create it,
you didn't do it by CGI. And he was of
that of that school. If you like, Let's talk.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
A little bit more about Wish You Were Here from
nineteen seventy five. You write quote Roger Waters made it
clear very early on in the process that shine on
You Crazy Diamond, which would be the key composition on
the new album was closely related to his affectionate reflections
on the band's old comrade said, Barrett, you did talk
about it a little bit before, about what happened with Sid.
(33:24):
He showed up out of the blue one day. Right now.
Nick Mason wrote about it in his book, and he
puts a picture in the book too of the day
that Sid was there. So he just showed up.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It was seven years after he left the band.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Seven years and they're literally recording a song about him
and he walks in. Correct.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Nobody knows whether it's coincidence that he happened to Pum,
happened to Pum the moment they were doing that particular song,
or whether he just wandered in the studio and that
was coincidence, or whether it's a bit of a myth
and he wandered in. But that was one of the
songs that they were doing. You know, it could have
(34:06):
been the myth, could have been slightly manipulated, so he
didn't actually walk in when they were in the middle
of Crazy Diamond. But who knows, But it was certainly
remarkable that he appeared at all. You know, that's the point.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
They tried talking to him, right, But it really wasn't
getting far. He wasn't really connected to reality at that point.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
No, I mean, I'm often I can't remember that whether
Nick Mason ever mentioned how he got in there in
the first place. I mean, he couldn't. He didn't just
wander in the door, you.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Know, somebody had to let him in.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, And there's a story that he was he had
a tooth brushing his hand, he's brushing his teeth while
his wife's perform. He was overweight, he had shaved his head,
and he looked unrecognizable. It's a very eerie story. And
again the fact that they're recording that song or how
much of truth there is to that, but still the
(35:11):
facts there.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Exactly that song came out of that session put it
that way.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, and his condition just left a lasting impression on
the band to this day, all the surviving members in
the nineteen seventy seven Animals is among my top three
Pink Floyd albums. Not an album that would have any
FM rock friendly songs on it. There are three songs
clocking in at seventeen minutes, eleven minutes and ten minutes long.
(35:36):
That's Dogs, Pigs and Sheep, and then their book ended
by two short one minute, twenty four second songs titled
Pigs on the Wing Parts one and two. Roger's concept
was inspired by George Orwell's Animal Farm. It's a skating
critique of ruthless businessman corrupt leaders in the exploited masses.
(35:57):
Rick Wright is quoted in the book talking about how
Roger wouldn't let reccontribute any songwriting. Is this where Roger
tries to take over the band or is really starting
to take over the band?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I think it was. Yeah, there was so much tension,
particularly between Roger and Rick right at the time. And
I mean Roger's concept was as you say, it was.
It encompassed his growing critique of both the rock business
(36:34):
and the politics that surrounded I mean the political free
market kind of politics that were that was rampant in
the UK at the time or just emerging in the
UK that became the kind of entrepreneurship in the in
the eighties which that many saw has been creatively destructive.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
And it was it was Roger Waters if you like,
reaction to that, but but also to the to the
again their own position. I mean, he was very frustrated
by the fact that this was a bit like sid
in a mirror image of said that it was the
(37:24):
fame and the glory didn't sit comfortably with somebody who
was that critical about the rock business. He couldn't. You
couldn't have it both ways. That you were, you were,
you were having enjoying the It's a bit like the Beatles.
You were enjoying the artistic freedom that success created. But
then again, the success, from one point of view, restrainer
(37:49):
limited your artistic freemom because you felt like you had
to you have to. Your next alb might have be
a as big a seller as the last one. So
there was artistic pressure which was impinging on your creative freedom.
But that success had allowed you that creative freedom and
certainly their technical freedom too.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And Roger was also now as a result of the fames,
He's started to feel alienated by the fans. During this
period too, there's a spinning incident. Talk about that, right,
the spinning incident, And how did Roger's childhood also inspire
nineteen seventy nine is the War?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Well? Again that the War was his whole wonderful album,
and this whole thing, that the whole image of the
tyrannical school teachers and the pressures on kids when they
were you know, not quite teenagers yet, and that whole
thing it was. It was certainly as an iconic an
(38:50):
album as Dark Side of the Moon in a different way.
I remember my I mean, I remember my kids. My son,
he was a huge fan of the war, and he
would have been where were we seventy nine, he would
have been, I know, in his in his early teens,
(39:13):
you know. And it hit home. It hit home, you
know when they brought that single out with the kids chorus.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
On it, or we don't need no education, we don't.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Need no education. That was that was like, that was
a wonderful anthem for kids his age, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Same here I was seven, eight years old, and there
there were kids in school that would sing that.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah. They And so it was a great It was
a great album, and it came out to Roger Waters's
own if you're like frustrated youth and whatever. Great great
stuff though.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Find the Bookdown Rock website at Bookdown Rock, Dark Calm.
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(40:16):
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Nineteen eighty three is the Final Cut, the last Pink
Floyd album to feature Roger Waters, the only without Rick Wright,
who left the band under pressure from Roger after the
Wall Sessions. You lead the chapter with a quote from
(40:37):
Nick Mason. Nick said, it may be that in Roger's
head he was already moving into a solo career and
merely wanted David and me to assist him in his aspirations.
How much truth is there to next quote.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I think it's a lot of truth in that. Yeah,
that that I think Roger goes to the stage way
it was. It was the bad, The albums were his albums,
The Bad was his band, and the three other players were,
as he says, assistance in achieving that. Achieving that that result,
you know not now, John, is my only personal highlight
(41:13):
from the album.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I'm not a huge fan of the album. What is
your opinion of the final cut?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I think it's a bit messy. You know, there was
a there was a lot of there was that, there
was a there was material on it that that that
that was intended for the Wall, and so that makes that,
you know something. It made it a bit messy anyway,
I think, And it was in many ways. It didn't
stand up against most of the other albums in that way.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, The Fletcher Memorial Home is another good one, I
should say, but it's not Yeah, it's it sounds like
a band on its way out, like there there. Yes,
there's clearly something wrong here, you're write quote. Following the
release of the final cut, Pink Floyd as a unit
was in complete disarray. There was about a four year
gap between the final cut and the next album, nineteen
(42:02):
eighty Seven's Momentary Lapse of Reason. This is with Gilmour,
Mason and Wright. I believe Rick Wright was under a
contract deal. He wasn't officially a member of the band,
but really he's there. He's part of the recording process.
Gilmour and Mason never intended to end Pink Floyd, but
Roger tried to stop that. How does that war in
the High Court ultimately come to an end. What because
(42:25):
I think this has to do with ultimately years later
Roger being able to tour off of the Wall. I think,
right then they say that can be your thing.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
That's right, yeah, yeah, Okay. There are a lot of
there are a lot of kind of copyright issues and
these legal battles, which is, you know, it's not the
first band it happened to, it's not the last band
it happened to. But the legal battles over copyright and
who who's responsible for certain work, it get very messy
(42:57):
when it ends up in the courts. I mean, when
you write a song with and you're not a professional songwriter,
but you're a musician and you're writing a song with
a bunch of other musicians, it's very hard to find
that divide in the line between who wrote this, who
wrote that. Okay, you could say he wrote that lyric,
but certainly the music and as it appears on the record,
(43:21):
is everybody's in the sense that they all contributed, but
it's they don't come out as songwriters, right.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
But also keep in mind it wasn't Rogers band to
begin with.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It was no exactly. I mean, you know, Lennon McCartney
made twice as much more than twice ten times as
much money as the other Beatles, but purely because they
wrote all the songs. But the contribution of the other
members in the recorded tracks was was twenty five percent,
(43:54):
you know, of the four Beatles.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
You could say, Yeah, Roger's an interesting guy. You know,
I'm a fan of his, but it's hard to be
a fan sometimes with the things he'll say. You know,
he made those comments about Ozzie Osbown when he passed away,
just you know, terrible things say about a guy who
just died. You know, you might as well just say,
I'm you know, I'm sorry to hear he passed away.
But in said, you know, he's taking shots at Ozzie
and he was a weird guy. And yeah, that's but
(44:18):
that's Roger here. That's he's always been that way. He
always seemed like a super serious guy.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I don't know if he's combative by nature, but you
can see I kind of feel for David Gilmour. I
can imagine what he and those guys, you know, we're
up against, especially as they became a huge success. They
had to keep that machine going and it wasn't easy
to get along with them.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I mean put it this way. He was probably like
a lot of highly creative people. He's probably a night
man to work with, you know. Yeah, it's it's it's
not unusual that that. You know, you get very creative
people who if it's difficult for to be in a
(45:01):
cooperative kind of environment workwise, they've got they've got to
be dominant or or they by nature of their contribution,
they become dominant and it's and it's difficult for the
other sometime too. Uh do you feel comfortable with that?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
The story of Bob Adrin, who produced The Wall, and
Bob Ezrons showed up like five minutes late for recording
session and Roger's standing there waiting for him outside and
he's pointing at his watch like late, and Ezrin blew
up on he said, don't you ever do that to
me again. That's Roger. He is who he is. But
he's a brilliant musician and you can't argue that momentary
(45:42):
Laughs of reason a huge commercial success, top five album,
Learning to Fly, number one single on mainstream rock radio.
The ensuing tour a massive success, and they pulled it
off again with ninety four as a Division Bell number
one in ten countries. Here's my question to you. I'm
a child of the eighties. I love the Poe's, Roger
Ara Pink Floyd. Do you have to be of a
(46:03):
certain age to feel that way? Is that those who
grew up during the Roger Waters era, is it impossible
for them to embrace what came after?
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Certainly not impossible to embrace it, obviously, I think. I
think the fads that grew up, if you like, into
an earlier era of the Floyd of there's a stronger
pull of you know that. The comparison is.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
There's an emotional attachment too, if you're of a certain
exact Yeah, yeah, there's a certain age period where you
connect with music.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
So yeah, I mean, He's the dark side of the moon.
It'd be very hard to find anything else that was
just in your own minds have as much impacted.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Sure, what do you think of those two albums, Momentary
Laps and Division Bell? Are you a fan of them?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah? But they're not my favorite Floyd albums.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
But any beans Now, I think that's the response that, yeah,
that's common. You know of a certain age group, you
grew up and you made that attachment to Some will
even say the sid era is really the best era,
but you know, but most will say yeah, without Roger,
forget it. But again that's you know, I'm born in
(47:16):
nineteen seventy two. I'm coming up at a time that
watching MTV and I'm seeing Learning to Fly and I'm
hearing it on the radio, and I'm hearing all the
singles on radio, and I just fell in love with it.
I love the sound of David's voice. I love the
sound of his guitar playing. I love the whole concept
of the Pink Floyd's sound that they were able to
put together, which is interesting too because momentary laps of
(47:36):
raising the story is David put together some songs at
first that just didn't sound Pink Floyd enough for the
record label, and they said, you got to go back
to the drawing board on this, and they did because
they said it doesn't sound Pink Floydish enough, which I
find that very interesting. It's like, all of a sudden,
now David Gilmour's finding himself in this position where he's
(47:59):
created it. You know, he's part of a creation of
this monster that he has to now continue. When Roger
rejoined Pink Floyd in two thousand and five for Live eight.
I got the goosebumps when I saw What was your response?
Was there a part of you that thought, maybe maybe
(48:19):
we'll get something more than just this, maybe we'll get
some recorded music. What was going through your mind when
you saw this?
Speaker 2 (48:27):
I think, I I'm not trying to be clever or
sound clever, but I think I assumed it was a
well off you know, or it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Was you knew enough. Yeah, yeah, chuse chause. The stories
are they didn't get along even that day. Although it
was a picture in your book where they're hugging. I
was like, what hugging?
Speaker 2 (48:46):
It was a nice well off you know, it wasn't
gonna it wasn't gonna.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Be I think Roger seemed to be excited more so
than the others. I think he was. I think Roger
was a little bit more exciting.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I think, except he's back in the fold.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Right of course, if that were going to be allowed,
then he's probably thinking I'll be back in the fold
and back in charge, you know, And David's like, no, no, exactly.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
It's a nice it was a nice event. It was
a nice little period. But he didn't want to go
back to those.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Oh yeah, I wondered too. Sid Barrett at that time
was still alive. He would pass a year later, but
I was thinking, man, is he watching you know, just
all those things as a Pink Floyd fan going through
my mind. But yeah, sadly Sid died in six and
then Rick Wright passed away two years later. The Endless
two thousand and eight. The Endless River came out in
(49:43):
twenty fourteen, mostly instrumental music that came from the sessions
from the Division Bell album. It's a tribute to Rick,
a nice tribute and an end to Pink Floyd and
Roger as we know, has had a resurgence, huge resurgence
with his tours. There was a period there where he
was playing small arenas and you know, in the same
town or city Pink Floyd's playing, you know, in a
(50:05):
huge stadium. So he's he's really he's really come a
long way since then as a solo artist and continuing
with the Pink Floyd music. David Gilmour put out an
excellent solo album a year ago, Luck and Strange. Yeah,
there's some you know, of course, there are great Pink
Floyd tributes out there. The Australian Pink Floyd show is
(50:26):
one that's great. What should Pink Floyd's legacy be defined
by in your opinion from this point forward, what is
the legacy of Pink Floyd.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
I think the legacy as if you like, the epitome
of what used to be called progressive rock rock, the
other vision, a technical vision and a lytical vision over
a good span of time. You know, they were they
weren't around for eight years like the Beatles, they were around,
you know. I think they epitomized progressive rocks as it
(50:59):
was called back in the day, and the technical expertise
really opened up the possibilities of what you could do
within the context of rock music. I mean, I'm a
great jazz fan, but the great thing about jazz is
that you didn't there were there were there were technical
changes in the studio obviously from the very earliest days
(51:23):
to now, but they didn't exploit the technical changes in
the way that rock musicians did. Really, it was more
about the musicians how good they were on and still
is how the good they are on their instruments, which
is wonderful in itself. Different art form, totally different art form.
But but Floyd did epitomize what the best of that
(51:47):
progressive period that went far beyond just just the nineteen seventies,
which is when the phrase was coined.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Pink Floyd behind the Music. The book is out now,
it's been out I think came out in the summer.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
June or July, yeah, beginning of July.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, And it's available wherever books are sold, and you
can find it at your nearest bookstore, look forward at
your nearest independent bookstore. You can find your nearest independent
bookstore at bookdown rock dot com. I'm glad that we
were able to talk to you about this book, and
I would love to have you back on again. You've
got any books that you're planning for any in the
future that you're.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Gonna be Yeah, yeah, I mean I've got my latest book,
which won't be out until I guess next next spring,
which I've just finished, which is a history of the blues,
which has been done time and time again, but it's
it's called the History the Story of the Blues in
fifty songs, so it's just fifty blues numbers, but going
(52:46):
from the very first blues records to very contemporary stuff
now and blues in a fairy broad sense of the word.
You know. You know, there's there's rock and roll, h
him and blues, big bands, Bob Dylan and various people
(53:11):
who played blues, but they're not all necessary what we
call blues musicians.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
It's John Lee Hooker in there. That's my favorite. Oh yeah, yeah,
he's my personal favorite.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I actually actually JOm Do Hooker once.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Did you really in.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
The CAVN in Liverpool? Yeah, back in the day, huh,
because I played sax.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Okay, I'm very fortunate to have had his son on,
Johnny Hooker Junior, who oh yeah, played with his dad
for a while there and went through some personal struggles
and just came out of it. And he's he's just
a wonderful man. I mean, I got I mean that
since I mean, he's just such a nice guy. And
I was telling him, I I said, your dad, and
(53:50):
he's my favorite, you know, hands down.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah, Hooker sixty sixty five.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
I'm looking forward to that book and I would love
to have you on to talk about it and get
the word out about it. You have an open invite, Mike.
Thank you for coming on to talk about this Pink
Floyd book.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Pleasure. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
That's it, it's in the books,
It's a look back at the history of Pink Floyd,
from Sid Barrett's visionary beginnings to the band's iconic seventies
run to their enduring legacy in the post Roger Waters era.
All that coming up next with author Mike Evans and
Booked on Rock. We're totally booked rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I mean, I'll leave you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
You're reading.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll, roll out.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I totally booked. Welcome back to book don Rock. This
is the podcast for those about to read and rock.
And we have a first time guest on the show.
His name is Mike Evans. He is the author of
Pink Floyd Behind the Music. Mike, Welcome to the podcast.
Great to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You point out in the introduction to how Pink Floyd's
a rarity among the bands who are part of the
progressive rock genre. Unlike most of them, Pink Floyd has
endured in the public consciousness. What do you think it
is about this particular bit and that sets them apart
from all the others that came up during that period.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I think, unlike some of the progressive rock bands, they
did they did developed with the times to a degree.
I mean, obviously they didn't absorb every trend that would
be that would be rather what we call phony, but
they but they developed, and they absorbed various developments in
(01:25):
both technically and and in the broad scope of rock music,
which some of the progressive bands got stuck in a
if you like, a progressive rut, and and they were
very much in our minds now as bands of the
seventies or whatever, whereas I think Floyd did spread out
(01:46):
for a variety of reasons that that that they encompassed
a lot more uh, I old say genres, but certainly
techniques and and aspects of rock music. Then and some
of the contemporaries.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Do you think the return of the band after Roger
Waters is a factor in continuing with the legacy among
new generations of fans, Because me personally, I was a
teenager growing up during the period of momentary lapse of
reason and then in college during Division Bell and there
was a resurgence of interest in Pink Floyd. Then do
you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah? I guess so. I mean, obviously it shows in
their varying sort of record sales and so on, but
also because they've been so enduring in one way or
another there if you like an antidote to things that
were more ephemeral, you know, trends that came and went.
(02:43):
Whereas their bit of an antidote to that, because they
became a fixture, even though it is never ever changing fixture.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Let's talk about the three eras, the Sid Barrett era,
the post Sid Barrett era, and the post Roger Waters era.
Original Pink Floyd was a different band in the beginning,
and they were led by Sid Barrett, and they had
Nick Mason, Roger Waters and Richard Wright. David Gilmore wasn't
in the band yet. They were lumped in with the
psychedelic scene early on. Was that an accurate label to
(03:15):
put on the band?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yes, because the psychedelic scene was. They were part of
the creation of that psychedelic scene. I mean I was
around in London at the time playing in a band,
and I remember they were on the horizon. They were
foooning around with various what became psychedelic gimmicks if you
(03:38):
like light shows and distortion in the guitar playing, and
let's say fantastical kind of lyrics which were mainly inspired
at the time by Sid Barrett. I mean interesting They
originated in Regent Street Polytechnica College in central London that
(04:01):
uh and I was a student there at the same time,
and I remember these guys practicing rehearsing in the basement
of the of the building I was in. Wow, And
of course I didn't know at the time they were
going to be a famous rock band. There were just
some guys that were in the architecture department I was.
I was in the sociology department and these guys were
in the architecture department. And it was only years later
(04:23):
it dawned on me that that these these guys were
they were they used to you know that they said
they related this to historians, since that they actually rehearsed
in the basement in this in this college.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Did you ever bump into those guys, did you?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I guess, I mean they were just you know, guys
hanging around. I mean, you know, college full of people
of similar age. You didn't take I must notice, but
I remember there was some music going on. And then
when I became involved in as a musician in the
in the in the in the later sixties, that they
(05:03):
became very a familiar, familiar face on the landscape. Even
before they became as famous as they did, and it
was the era, as I say, of people let's say,
writing fantastical lyrics and sort of spacey kind of lyrics
(05:25):
and psychedelic what became called psychedelic lyrics inspired either by
drugs or by associated sort of literature and the kind
of imaginative, imaginative subject matters which were Most of the
(05:48):
bands that came out of that mid sixties scene in
England were rhythm and blues bands, so they were R
and B bands playing basic blues or derivations of basic blues,
bands like the Stones and then later bands like Cream
and so on, whereas the Floyd from the start had
(06:10):
gone a step aside from that that they were blues
musicians in their basic music, because most were at the time,
they weren't school musicians, and Sid significantly was the only
one that came didn't come from this particular college they
(06:35):
were at. But he was an art student, as were
a lot of our rock heroes in the sixties in England.
Art school was a particular environment for people like John
Lennon and Pete Townsend, Dave Davis. There was a whole
kind of cultural melting pot because you know, he didn't
(06:57):
have to be as articulate as a as a student
of literature or something. So it LEDs itself to the
kind of kind of guys who were very open minds
to things. And and Sid Barrett obviously he was one
of those kind of one of those kind of characters.
And so he was in the first period he was
(07:19):
the most imaginative of the band in terms of lyrics
and so on.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, he brought that originality to the Pink Floyd sound.
You write quote from the start, since compositions featured distinctive,
often whimsical lyrics influenced by a variety of sources. And
you also talk about he had an edge to his songwriting.
What formed that approach? What bands was a fan of?
He read Lord of the Rings, that's right, yeah, right, yeah.
(07:44):
What were the bands that he was a fan of?
Was he more of an underground guy? He wasn't into
the Well, let's it that.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It became very quickly that there was a sort of
division in that rhythm and Blue Seat, and there was
a sudden division between the mainstream him blues if you like,
and the kind of underground scene that developed simultaneously. Clubs
like UFO in London was the main one, so there
(08:11):
was where there was a lot more experimentation going on
in a way. I mean, I suppose Cream were almost
a parallel because they were all the three of Cream
were solidly in that rhythm and blues scene, Jack Bruce
and Claptain and Ginger Baker, but the Cream environment allowed
(08:33):
them to expand instrumentally certainly into it's a lot more experimentation,
and they started writing songs with Pete Brown, the poet
who got away from the usual blues kind of twelve
bar blues sequence of lyrics and so on. And I
(08:53):
think that that expansive sort of attitude, experimental attitude, that's
what became dubbed the underground in clubs like Upho and they,
and that went along with things like the light shows
developed at the same time, which was a visual manifestation
(09:17):
on stage, and so the whole stage show I mean,
who for instance, were experiment were pioneers of broadening the
scope of stage shows, the way they presented their music,
and the kind of pile of technics involved in the music,
the actually dynamics of light and shade and the use
of volume and the use of distortion, and so that
(09:43):
old so called underground scene musically was a product of
these various changes that were occurring and coming together with
certain with certain key bands as Saying and Pink Floyd
was at the forefront of that. I mean they contemporaries
would people like Soft Machine and much if you're like,
(10:05):
much more influenced by jazz than than Pink Floyd. So
they're all part of that that melting pot.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Had you been to that club, the UFO?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, oh wow? Are the stories true that they would
hand out acid at shows? What was the pink guess?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I mean a lot of it was just stories on
in the rock press. You know, unless you were there
at the time, you didn't know. But I mean my
experience of playing the only played at once with we
were all sitting backstage drinking beer. But I mean, this
(10:43):
is like it was then. It was. It was a
very mixed kind of scene. So you know, your indulgence
might be alcohol, it might be drugs, it might be
smoking pot or whatever. But there was no there was
no strict divisions, so you know, you just kind of
took it for grant. What happened?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
What became of the club? Is it still there? Is it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
No? No? No, it's a bit. It came and went
within within a matter of a couple of years. Oh Jesus,
sixty sixty eight.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
It's got a legendary status among fans of Pink Floyd
in that era because it's always part of some story.
With Barret as their main songwriter, they did have two
hit singles, Arnold Lane c Emily Play, and then the
successful debut studio album The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.
That was all that from nineteen sixty seven. And this
(11:35):
was not something that said embraced. There's a highlighted quote
in your book where Sid said, if John Lennon doesn't
have to do Top of the Pops, why should I?
His mental decline was pretty rapid. Was it due to drugs?
Was it mental illness? Was it simply an artist who
rebelled against commercialism? Was it all of that combined? What
do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I think he's probably all of that combined. I mean,
the drugs obviously didn't help, but physically they were the
day were the main influence on his on his mental state,
uh in, the main detrimental influence on his mental state.
He wasn't the first and he wasn't the last, but
to have that kind of mental history.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
But he.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
There's a there was an awful, fatal, almost fatal combination
of sudden fame and and over indulgence. I mean it
happened to a number of rock stars. But but but
but with said, it was just more disastrous than than
with many, you know, and uh, it was a combination
(12:45):
of the of fame, and I mean without the fame,
he probably couldn't have afforded so many drugs, if you
like to look at it that way. And also because
the whole scene is full of hangers on and made
all that very easy. You know, it was very accessible.
And it's like it's been like that forever, you know,
(13:05):
on the kind of music scene, but fame, it's particularly
on somebody's quite young and still feeling their own way
in the world. I mean, these were just students. I
mean they were like, you know, eighteen nineteen year old.
They were kids, you know, comparatively speaking. And so if
(13:26):
you couldn't quite handle that, and it had to you know,
not just said Barrett, but you know, if you couldn't
handle that quite could you could spiral out in the
wrong direction, which unfortunately he did.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
David Gilmour's entrance into the band was somewhat transitional. He
was brought in while Sid was still in the band,
that's right. Now. He knew Sid Barrett already. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
they were friends. They knew each other from the music scene, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And from the art school. See I think, but because
Gilmour wasn't at the the same cause as the other three.
Uh and but he was already got a little name
for himself as a session player around the music scene,
so he already had his foot in the doors as
it were.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Do you think the guys in the band planned on
him being a permanent member, David, was that part of
the plan to transition him in.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
No, I think the plan was just as a kind
of not a replacement for Sid, but but somebody to
deputize for him while he wasn't while he was being
I feel like, unreliable. There were the hope was obviously
that he would sort himself out.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Okay, yeah, the hope was he would get better.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
But there was a point where Gilmore, Dave Gilmour was
in the band and Sid would still be on stage,
but his contribution was becoming less and less reliable, and
to the point where they'd switch they'd switch his amp
off because he was playing nonsense, and and Gilmour already
been started being a kind of reliable session player on
(15:04):
the studio scene. He was just a reliable voice to
have their often filling in on what Sid had done
on the original records.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Just yeah, there's a story. What's the talk show that
they were on? When Sid would as soon as their
cameras were on and they would ask Sid a question,
he would go completely quiet and say nothing, and then
they say cut hold on, and then they say, Sid,
you just got answered the questions a little bit. And
Sid was playing with him. He's like, oh, no, no problem,
no problem, I'll talk okay, let's do this again. And
then they turned the camera on and he would do
(15:36):
the same thing, shut down, not saying yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, it's just like like it was just it became
a totally it became totally unreliable, especially if you're trying
to handle that.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
There's been stories about years later where people would knock
on his door because they found out where he lived,
and he would open the door sometimes and be friendly
and sometimes would say please leave me alone. Stories that
he there was checks that would arrive and that he
would never cash publishing checks, like he wanted nothing to
do with the Pink Floyd past. What do you know
about that? Yeah, you've heard those stories.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I've heard some yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But he was very reclusive. Pictures of him around town
going to the art shop on his bicycle. Yeah, privately,
very sad because then people got intrusive pictures of him
taking his trash out. You know, it's very They try
to glamorize it almost like it was this fascinating story
that there was people couldn't refuse to really invest themselves into.
(16:34):
But like Roger Water said, it's a sad story. It's
a tragic story.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
There was that situation where he appeared as recording session.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I wish you were here, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And they didn't recognize him first when he came to
the studio. I mean, he was like such a It
reminds one of It reminds one of Jeremy Space, sir,
who's a Fleetwood Mac you know. He he he went
(17:07):
off at a tangent and joined the Children of God
at one of those quasi hippie religious groups in Los
Angeles and disappeared. You know, they never saw him agetting
for months. I mean he just disappeared off after the
music scene altogether.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
That's a tough position to be in if you are
an artist and you do want people to enjoy your art,
but you are not in any way interested in being famous.
Like you like a certain amount of tension respecting your art.
People come up to you and say, I really love
what you did, and oh that's great, thank you, But
then complete strangers coming up to you and feeling as
if they know you. And at that point, like you said,
(17:49):
he's only eighteen or nineteen, he doesn't really know himself yet,
no exactly. You know, that's a it's a difficult position
to be in, and some have been able to transition that. Now.
He did do solo work. Sid and David produced it.
He did two solo albums. His last one was the
(18:09):
self titled or just called Barrett in nineteen seventy and
that was it. And then the friction between David Gilmour
and Roger Waters. I mean, I guess that started right
away reading your book. There were signs of that way
back on. There's a quote from David of his early
rehearsal sessions in the book. He says, quote, I actually
walked out of one of the first rehearsals, Roger had
(18:31):
got so unbearably awful in a way that I'd later
get used to that I stopped out of the room.
They had such a great chemistry together musically. But what
do you think was at the root of their battles
ego creative control?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I think he was the ego. I mean, I think
Roger having formed the band, the very very earliest version
of the band, pre the band, which didn't involve Sid,
and then suddenly Sid appeared with this kind of great contribution.
(19:07):
But but in a way it was. It was a
Sid band when it first started making records, And and
I think Roger suddenly the kind of control he had
over the of the very very original concept when they
were still in in the in the college basement, that
kind of control slipped away because because Sid was the
(19:30):
more immediate creative force that that that took over. And
I think subconsciously, if not if not consciously, Walters probably
resented that a bit, or at least missed the fact
that he was it was his band, and and and
when Sid, through his own problems, wasn't in the picture anymore,
(19:52):
I think Roger felt it was his natural inheritance to
take over, and and with the Gilmore being equally dynamic
in the whole process, that became a bit of a challenge.
So I think Roger Wilts has definitely had a problem,
even though it wasn't self consciously a problem, a problem
(20:15):
with that kind of challenge To say his authority is
a bit of too strong a word, but certainly of
his place in the whole creative process, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And by the end it seemed as if he did
have complete creative control by the time you get to
the final cut.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, he.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Wore the guys down. The classic Pink Floyd sound of
that period when Roger and David and Nick and Richard
are all really working together to put together that classic
sound that we hear on Dark Side of the Moon
and the Wall. That took some time. I mean, that
wasn't like it just came out right away. There was
a soundtrack album in nineteen sixty nine. More Umagoma came
(20:58):
out in sixty nine as well. Adam hart Mother in
nineteen seventy. David is quoting the book. When talking about
Adam hart Mother, he says, it's shit. The lowest point
artistically he had talk about those albums. What do you
think about that period as we lead up to metal,
you know, around that point when things start to shift
with the sound and get popular.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well, I think they there was that period when they
were showing various aspects of both what had been and
what was to come. I always felt that Adam Hart
Mother it was one of the defining albums of the
(21:40):
whole idea of the concept album. I mean, if only
because of the first side, which was just a sequence
of it was one it was you know, logged as
one number with various parts in it if you remember,
and and that just even that concept was like quite radical, uh,
(22:01):
and it this is what progressive rock was supposed to
be about. It. It was a kind of if you like,
for want a better word of thinking, thinking man's rock.
You know it it was quite sophisticated and having things
in uh, in movements if you like, like like classical
music might be. It was in those movements on the
(22:23):
on the first on side one, uh in a way
that kind of typified, uh, the seriousness, for one of
a better word of the progressive rock that that that
they took to composition and so on, and.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
They were all under the label Harvest up until Dark
Side of the Moon. Yeah, Yeah, so did Harvest support
that kind of creative ambition?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And yeah, because Harvest started off as a as a
kind of progressive label, and it started off to it
started off as EMI's attempt or success to absorb this
new progressive music on a separate label. You know, wasn't
it wasn't a rhythm blues rabel, It wasn't a pop label.
It was a progressive label.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Is it With nineteen seventy one's Metal where we start
to hear the band gel particularly the song Echoes is
one that we could point to as the moment when
Pink Floyd makes that shift.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. The thing was with them
with Metal that was highly experimental because they didn't prepare
anything beforehand, and they went in and each kind of
played a contribution which didn't know is work. But it
was this very idea of this kind of improvisation for
(23:51):
its own sake. If you like.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
One of these Days is another song you could point
to the darker side of Pink Floyd where things start
to to go. Obscured by Clouds was released in nineteen
seventy two. Interesting Country Field to most of that album,
and three four was the single which I remember here
in the States, classic rock radio played it from time
to time. But it sets up the album Dark Side
(24:15):
of the Moon, which I've said many times. I think
it's the greatest album ever just musically it's beautifully put together.
Of course, the music's gorgeous, it's brilliant, but the lyrics
they connect with everybody at no matter what age you are,
and as you get older you will connect with parts
of it even more so. You write, quote the genesis
(24:36):
of Pink Floyd's next album and their first non soundtrack
album since Metal in nineteen seventy one, flew in the
face of rock music convention.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
When you first heard themselves like Money and so, they
were so spectacularly memorable just in their own right. There
was nothing before or after it was quite the same.
It was a bit like a new beat album was
there was nothing to it wasn't even comparable to the
Beatles' previous album. It's a bit like that. So it's
(25:07):
kind of it's at a kind of uniqueness of its
own aways as if it was done by a different band.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Right the time. Signature and Money.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Exactly, and yeah, and the whole sound of it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, and lyrically the the whole concept. Roger I think
had that in mind at some point coming in that
he wanted to put something together about the human condition,
the fears that we have, the insecurities that we have,
the desires for things like money.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Well, yes, and he referenced in his own way the
mental problems that that siddered. Yes, he actually obliquely mentioned
and referred to all that.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, this is the first album where we start to
get the influence of Sid Barrett's experience start to enter
into the lyrics of the music.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
That's right, and in a way it was Roger's own,
even though he wouldn't admitted at the time his own insecurities,
if you like, or came out in that way that
that he was aware of his own failty or maybe
(26:20):
all our failties in the sort of context of this
bubble they are now in.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I can't imagine anybody predicting what would become of the
album in terms of the long term success, the long
term chart success of this album. You know, it stayed
on the charts or was it on the album charts
for however many years, I don't know's it's insane the
record that it's set. When you first heard it, what
(26:49):
was your response, did you think, Wow, I'm listening to
something really special here.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It certainly sounded special, It sounded I mean, there was
so much going on in the early seventies that it
didn't mean you didn't immediately assume this is more special
than various other things that were happening. But it was
certainly the actual sound. Its own sound was unique.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
It was.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
And it was certainly the most special thing that they'd done.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, do you believe any of the Wizard of Oz story?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Do I know this story? Oh?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
My god? So if you play, and you could go
to YouTube and you'll see this online and you can
watch for yourself, watch and listen. But if you start
Dark Side of the Moon at the third War of
the MGM Lion, there's all of these similarities. So like
when Dorothy's standing on the she's standing on the fence,
and you hear the lyrics balance on the biggest wave,
(27:45):
or as soon as you go into the song time
you hear them the cash register sounds. It's exactly when
Dorothy opens the door and everything turns to color. Who
knows which is which? And you see the two witches
I mean, there's all these things right right, and all
the band members have just said there's nothing. You know,
we had no idea, no idea behind it. But I
(28:06):
I always, I always say that they didn't do that intentionally.
Which makes it even more fascinating to me, is that
the fact that you can have these synchronicities, these coincidences
without even trying. Then you start to wonder if there's something,
if something bigger out there that's all in the strings.
You could check it out on YouTube back in the day.
(28:27):
I had to go to eBay and somebody put it
on a VHS and I watched it. It's pretty fascinating. Yeah,
Pink Floyd Behind the Music is the book we're talking
with author Mike Evans. While the band was personally very
enthusiastic about what they had created, they were apprehensive as
to the reaction from critics and fans regarding Dark Side
(28:48):
of the Moon. We know the overwhelming response, but why
do you think it still connects today with such a
huge audience.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
The sums for all that complexity very accessible, you know,
they don't. They didn't. They weren't trapped into one genre.
They'd gone past just being progressive rock. You know, this
is this is clever, this is whatever. They were very
(29:16):
accessible songs. You can actually huld them in your head,
which is always a kind of that was the old
formula for good pop tune. But but you know, you
could actually hear them in your head, and they're accessible
in that way. And and as I said, production wise
(29:37):
and everything that was so strong they stood the test
of time. You know.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the book
down Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
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on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
sure you subscribe, give a five star review. Wherever you
listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, run Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
(30:09):
tune in, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. The album cover done by Storm thorguson
Aubrey Pollen Hypnosis and I believe they did twelve of
the fifteen studio album covers for Pink Floyd, most notably
(30:33):
Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, another
one with the two businessmen on fire, and I would
also put the iron Beds on the beach for Momentary
Lapse of Reason up there as well, another classic cover
and some great stories behind that. I think the first
day of shooting it was a storm, so they literally
had to take all of the iron beds off the beach.
(30:55):
I'm back on again the next day, and it wasn't
like photo trickery. If Storm Ferguson came out today, during
the streaming era, where album covers are just not as
significant as they once were, would people even know about them?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Well exactly. I mean it was an era when album
covers were almost as memorable as the music, the music inside.
I mean they were again, they were of the time
where the whole concept, or if you like, the whole
(31:33):
piece of work, the music therein and the album cover
were one and the same. I mean, you know, we're
all familiar with the Beatles and the Stones and their
album covers that held that kind of significance but stoked
aoguson technically, the interesting thing is that as computerized technology
(32:00):
became more and more apparent or more usable, and what
you now is out of date anyway, things like photoshop,
and that you never used any of that. He refused
to use that. He actually he actually made the things
on the cover happen. I mean, you know, by ways
and means a bit like in movies. You know, you
(32:22):
had special effects before, you had before you had computer
generated effects before CGI.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Those two guys are actual people, you know, the two
guys on Wish You Were Here?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And I think maybe one of the guys said, even
though they put something on them to protect them from
getting burns, I think they did get a little bit
of a burn and it was all these crazy stories
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Did it like a filmmaker would in those at that time.
You know, you've got a stunt man. You didn't create it,
you didn't do it by CGI. And he was of
that of that school. If you like, Let's talk.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
A little bit more about Wish You Were Here from
nineteen seventy five. You write quote Roger Waters made it
clear very early on in the process that shine on
You Crazy Diamond, which would be the key composition on
the new album was closely related to his affectionate reflections
on the band's old comrade said, Barrett, you did talk
about it a little bit before, about what happened with Sid.
(33:24):
He showed up out of the blue one day. Right now.
Nick Mason wrote about it in his book, and he
puts a picture in the book too of the day
that Sid was there. So he just showed up.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It was seven years after he left the band.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Seven years and they're literally recording a song about him
and he walks in. Correct.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Nobody knows whether it's coincidence that he happened to Pum,
happened to Pum the moment they were doing that particular song,
or whether he just wandered in the studio and that
was coincidence, or whether it's a bit of a myth
and he wandered in. But that was one of the
songs that they were doing. You know, it could have
(34:06):
been the myth, could have been slightly manipulated, so he
didn't actually walk in when they were in the middle
of Crazy Diamond. But who knows, But it was certainly
remarkable that he appeared at all. You know, that's the point.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
They tried talking to him, right, But it really wasn't
getting far. He wasn't really connected to reality at that point.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
No, I mean, I'm often I can't remember that whether
Nick Mason ever mentioned how he got in there in
the first place. I mean, he couldn't. He didn't just
wander in the door, you.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Know, somebody had to let him in.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, And there's a story that he was he had
a tooth brushing his hand, he's brushing his teeth while
his wife's perform. He was overweight, he had shaved his head,
and he looked unrecognizable. It's a very eerie story. And
again the fact that they're recording that song or how
much of truth there is to that, but still the
(35:11):
facts there.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Exactly that song came out of that session put it
that way.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, and his condition just left a lasting impression on
the band to this day, all the surviving members in
the nineteen seventy seven Animals is among my top three
Pink Floyd albums. Not an album that would have any
FM rock friendly songs on it. There are three songs
clocking in at seventeen minutes, eleven minutes and ten minutes long.
(35:36):
That's Dogs, Pigs and Sheep, and then their book ended
by two short one minute, twenty four second songs titled
Pigs on the Wing Parts one and two. Roger's concept
was inspired by George Orwell's Animal Farm. It's a skating
critique of ruthless businessman corrupt leaders in the exploited masses.
(35:57):
Rick Wright is quoted in the book talking about how
Roger wouldn't let reccontribute any songwriting. Is this where Roger
tries to take over the band or is really starting
to take over the band?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I think it was. Yeah, there was so much tension,
particularly between Roger and Rick right at the time. And
I mean Roger's concept was as you say, it was.
It encompassed his growing critique of both the rock business
(36:34):
and the politics that surrounded I mean the political free
market kind of politics that were that was rampant in
the UK at the time or just emerging in the
UK that became the kind of entrepreneurship in the in
the eighties which that many saw has been creatively destructive.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
And it was it was Roger Waters if you like,
reaction to that, but but also to the to the
again their own position. I mean, he was very frustrated
by the fact that this was a bit like sid
in a mirror image of said that it was the
(37:24):
fame and the glory didn't sit comfortably with somebody who
was that critical about the rock business. He couldn't. You
couldn't have it both ways. That you were, you were,
you were having enjoying the It's a bit like the Beatles.
You were enjoying the artistic freedom that success created. But
then again, the success, from one point of view, restrainer
(37:49):
limited your artistic freemom because you felt like you had
to you have to. Your next alb might have be
a as big a seller as the last one. So
there was artistic pressure which was impinging on your creative freedom.
But that success had allowed you that creative freedom and
certainly their technical freedom too.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And Roger was also now as a result of the fames,
He's started to feel alienated by the fans. During this
period too, there's a spinning incident. Talk about that, right,
the spinning incident, And how did Roger's childhood also inspire
nineteen seventy nine is the War?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Well? Again that the War was his whole wonderful album,
and this whole thing, that the whole image of the
tyrannical school teachers and the pressures on kids when they
were you know, not quite teenagers yet, and that whole
thing it was. It was certainly as an iconic an
(38:50):
album as Dark Side of the Moon in a different way.
I remember my I mean, I remember my kids. My son,
he was a huge fan of the war, and he
would have been where were we seventy nine, he would
have been, I know, in his in his early teens,
(39:13):
you know. And it hit home. It hit home, you
know when they brought that single out with the kids chorus.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
On it, or we don't need no education, we don't.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Need no education. That was that was like, that was
a wonderful anthem for kids his age, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Same here I was seven, eight years old, and there
there were kids in school that would sing that.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah. They And so it was a great It was
a great album, and it came out to Roger Waters's
own if you're like frustrated youth and whatever. Great great
stuff though.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Find the Bookdown Rock website at Bookdown Rock, Dark Calm.
There you can find all the back episodes of the show,
episode in video and audio links to all of the
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the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
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(40:16):
hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
the Booked on Rock online store. Pick up some booked
on rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot Com.
Nineteen eighty three is the Final Cut, the last Pink
Floyd album to feature Roger Waters, the only without Rick Wright,
who left the band under pressure from Roger after the
Wall Sessions. You lead the chapter with a quote from
(40:37):
Nick Mason. Nick said, it may be that in Roger's
head he was already moving into a solo career and
merely wanted David and me to assist him in his aspirations.
How much truth is there to next quote.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I think it's a lot of truth in that. Yeah,
that that I think Roger goes to the stage way
it was. It was the bad, The albums were his albums,
The Bad was his band, and the three other players were,
as he says, assistance in achieving that. Achieving that that result,
you know not now, John, is my only personal highlight
(41:13):
from the album.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I'm not a huge fan of the album. What is
your opinion of the final cut?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I think it's a bit messy. You know, there was
a there was a lot of there was that, there
was a there was material on it that that that
that was intended for the Wall, and so that makes that,
you know something. It made it a bit messy anyway,
I think, And it was in many ways. It didn't
stand up against most of the other albums in that way.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, The Fletcher Memorial Home is another good one, I
should say, but it's not Yeah, it's it sounds like
a band on its way out, like there there. Yes,
there's clearly something wrong here, you're write quote. Following the
release of the final cut, Pink Floyd as a unit
was in complete disarray. There was about a four year
gap between the final cut and the next album, nineteen
(42:02):
eighty Seven's Momentary Lapse of Reason. This is with Gilmour,
Mason and Wright. I believe Rick Wright was under a
contract deal. He wasn't officially a member of the band,
but really he's there. He's part of the recording process.
Gilmour and Mason never intended to end Pink Floyd, but
Roger tried to stop that. How does that war in
the High Court ultimately come to an end. What because
(42:25):
I think this has to do with ultimately years later
Roger being able to tour off of the Wall. I think,
right then they say that can be your thing.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
That's right, yeah, yeah, Okay. There are a lot of
there are a lot of kind of copyright issues and
these legal battles, which is, you know, it's not the
first band it happened to, it's not the last band
it happened to. But the legal battles over copyright and
who who's responsible for certain work, it get very messy
(42:57):
when it ends up in the courts. I mean, when
you write a song with and you're not a professional songwriter,
but you're a musician and you're writing a song with
a bunch of other musicians, it's very hard to find
that divide in the line between who wrote this, who
wrote that. Okay, you could say he wrote that lyric,
but certainly the music and as it appears on the record,
(43:21):
is everybody's in the sense that they all contributed, but
it's they don't come out as songwriters, right.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
But also keep in mind it wasn't Rogers band to
begin with.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It was no exactly. I mean, you know, Lennon McCartney
made twice as much more than twice ten times as
much money as the other Beatles, but purely because they
wrote all the songs. But the contribution of the other
members in the recorded tracks was was twenty five percent,
(43:54):
you know, of the four Beatles.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
You could say, Yeah, Roger's an interesting guy. You know,
I'm a fan of his, but it's hard to be
a fan sometimes with the things he'll say. You know,
he made those comments about Ozzie Osbown when he passed away,
just you know, terrible things say about a guy who
just died. You know, you might as well just say,
I'm you know, I'm sorry to hear he passed away.
But in said, you know, he's taking shots at Ozzie
and he was a weird guy. And yeah, that's but
(44:18):
that's Roger here. That's he's always been that way. He
always seemed like a super serious guy.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I don't know if he's combative by nature, but you
can see I kind of feel for David Gilmour. I
can imagine what he and those guys, you know, we're
up against, especially as they became a huge success. They
had to keep that machine going and it wasn't easy
to get along with them.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I mean put it this way. He was probably like
a lot of highly creative people. He's probably a night
man to work with, you know. Yeah, it's it's it's
not unusual that that. You know, you get very creative
people who if it's difficult for to be in a
(45:01):
cooperative kind of environment workwise, they've got they've got to
be dominant or or they by nature of their contribution,
they become dominant and it's and it's difficult for the
other sometime too. Uh do you feel comfortable with that?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
The story of Bob Adrin, who produced The Wall, and
Bob Ezrons showed up like five minutes late for recording
session and Roger's standing there waiting for him outside and
he's pointing at his watch like late, and Ezrin blew
up on he said, don't you ever do that to
me again. That's Roger. He is who he is. But
he's a brilliant musician and you can't argue that momentary
(45:42):
Laughs of reason a huge commercial success, top five album,
Learning to Fly, number one single on mainstream rock radio.
The ensuing tour a massive success, and they pulled it
off again with ninety four as a Division Bell number
one in ten countries. Here's my question to you. I'm
a child of the eighties. I love the Poe's, Roger
Ara Pink Floyd. Do you have to be of a
(46:03):
certain age to feel that way? Is that those who
grew up during the Roger Waters era, is it impossible
for them to embrace what came after?
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Certainly not impossible to embrace it, obviously, I think. I
think the fads that grew up, if you like, into
an earlier era of the Floyd of there's a stronger
pull of you know that. The comparison is.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
There's an emotional attachment too, if you're of a certain
exact Yeah, yeah, there's a certain age period where you
connect with music.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
So yeah, I mean, He's the dark side of the moon.
It'd be very hard to find anything else that was
just in your own minds have as much impacted.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Sure, what do you think of those two albums, Momentary
Laps and Division Bell? Are you a fan of them?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah? But they're not my favorite Floyd albums.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
But any beans Now, I think that's the response that, yeah,
that's common. You know of a certain age group, you
grew up and you made that attachment to Some will
even say the sid era is really the best era,
but you know, but most will say yeah, without Roger,
forget it. But again that's you know, I'm born in
(47:16):
nineteen seventy two. I'm coming up at a time that
watching MTV and I'm seeing Learning to Fly and I'm
hearing it on the radio, and I'm hearing all the
singles on radio, and I just fell in love with it.
I love the sound of David's voice. I love the
sound of his guitar playing. I love the whole concept
of the Pink Floyd's sound that they were able to
put together, which is interesting too because momentary laps of
(47:36):
raising the story is David put together some songs at
first that just didn't sound Pink Floyd enough for the
record label, and they said, you got to go back
to the drawing board on this, and they did because
they said it doesn't sound Pink Floydish enough, which I
find that very interesting. It's like, all of a sudden,
now David Gilmour's finding himself in this position where he's
(47:59):
created it. You know, he's part of a creation of
this monster that he has to now continue. When Roger
rejoined Pink Floyd in two thousand and five for Live eight.
I got the goosebumps when I saw What was your response?
Was there a part of you that thought, maybe maybe
(48:19):
we'll get something more than just this, maybe we'll get
some recorded music. What was going through your mind when
you saw this?
Speaker 2 (48:27):
I think, I I'm not trying to be clever or
sound clever, but I think I assumed it was a
well off you know, or it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Was you knew enough. Yeah, yeah, chuse chause. The stories
are they didn't get along even that day. Although it
was a picture in your book where they're hugging. I
was like, what hugging?
Speaker 2 (48:46):
It was a nice well off you know, it wasn't
gonna it wasn't gonna.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Be I think Roger seemed to be excited more so
than the others. I think he was. I think Roger
was a little bit more exciting.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I think, except he's back in the fold.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Right of course, if that were going to be allowed,
then he's probably thinking I'll be back in the fold
and back in charge, you know, And David's like, no, no, exactly.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
It's a nice it was a nice event. It was
a nice little period. But he didn't want to go
back to those.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Oh yeah, I wondered too. Sid Barrett at that time
was still alive. He would pass a year later, but
I was thinking, man, is he watching you know, just
all those things as a Pink Floyd fan going through
my mind. But yeah, sadly Sid died in six and
then Rick Wright passed away two years later. The Endless
two thousand and eight. The Endless River came out in
(49:43):
twenty fourteen, mostly instrumental music that came from the sessions
from the Division Bell album. It's a tribute to Rick,
a nice tribute and an end to Pink Floyd and
Roger as we know, has had a resurgence, huge resurgence
with his tours. There was a period there where he
was playing small arenas and you know, in the same
town or city Pink Floyd's playing, you know, in a
(50:05):
huge stadium. So he's he's really he's really come a
long way since then as a solo artist and continuing
with the Pink Floyd music. David Gilmour put out an
excellent solo album a year ago, Luck and Strange. Yeah,
there's some you know, of course, there are great Pink
Floyd tributes out there. The Australian Pink Floyd show is
(50:26):
one that's great. What should Pink Floyd's legacy be defined
by in your opinion from this point forward, what is
the legacy of Pink Floyd.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
I think the legacy as if you like, the epitome
of what used to be called progressive rock rock, the
other vision, a technical vision and a lytical vision over
a good span of time. You know, they were they
weren't around for eight years like the Beatles, they were around,
you know. I think they epitomized progressive rocks as it
(50:59):
was called back in the day, and the technical expertise
really opened up the possibilities of what you could do
within the context of rock music. I mean, I'm a
great jazz fan, but the great thing about jazz is
that you didn't there were there were there were technical
changes in the studio obviously from the very earliest days
(51:23):
to now, but they didn't exploit the technical changes in
the way that rock musicians did. Really, it was more
about the musicians how good they were on and still
is how the good they are on their instruments, which
is wonderful in itself. Different art form, totally different art form.
But but Floyd did epitomize what the best of that
(51:47):
progressive period that went far beyond just just the nineteen seventies,
which is when the phrase was coined.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Pink Floyd behind the Music. The book is out now,
it's been out I think came out in the summer.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
June or July, yeah, beginning of July.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, And it's available wherever books are sold, and you
can find it at your nearest bookstore, look forward at
your nearest independent bookstore. You can find your nearest independent
bookstore at bookdown rock dot com. I'm glad that we
were able to talk to you about this book, and
I would love to have you back on again. You've
got any books that you're planning for any in the
future that you're.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Gonna be Yeah, yeah, I mean I've got my latest book,
which won't be out until I guess next next spring,
which I've just finished, which is a history of the blues,
which has been done time and time again, but it's
it's called the History the Story of the Blues in
fifty songs, so it's just fifty blues numbers, but going
(52:46):
from the very first blues records to very contemporary stuff
now and blues in a fairy broad sense of the word.
You know. You know, there's there's rock and roll, h
him and blues, big bands, Bob Dylan and various people
(53:11):
who played blues, but they're not all necessary what we
call blues musicians.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
It's John Lee Hooker in there. That's my favorite. Oh yeah, yeah,
he's my personal favorite.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I actually actually JOm Do Hooker once.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Did you really in.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
The CAVN in Liverpool? Yeah, back in the day, huh,
because I played sax.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Okay, I'm very fortunate to have had his son on,
Johnny Hooker Junior, who oh yeah, played with his dad
for a while there and went through some personal struggles
and just came out of it. And he's he's just
a wonderful man. I mean, I got I mean that
since I mean, he's just such a nice guy. And
I was telling him, I I said, your dad, and
(53:50):
he's my favorite, you know, hands down.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah, Hooker sixty sixty five.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
I'm looking forward to that book and I would love
to have you on to talk about it and get
the word out about it. You have an open invite, Mike.
Thank you for coming on to talk about this Pink
Floyd book.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Pleasure. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
That's it, it's in the books,
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