U2 At 50: A Retrospective [Episode 325]

Discover the evolution of U2 with author Bradley Morgan as we explore the band's iconic albums like 'The Joshua Tree' and 'Achtung Baby'. From 'Boy' to beyond, their music continues to inspire fans worldwide.

Purchase a copy of U2: Until the End of the World

Visit Bradley Morgan's website

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From boy to the Joshua Tree to Ottune Baby and beyond.
We explore fifty years of You Two with author Bradley Morgan. Next,
I'm booked on Rock.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
We're totally booked rock and roll.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
I think I'll leave you. You're reading. Little Hands says
it's time.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
To rock and roll, roll out.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I totally booked.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast for those
about to read and rock. We have a returning guest,
Bradley Morgan, back on the show. His latest book is
titled You Two Until the End of the World. Bradley,
great to see you again.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Thanks so much for having me Eric. It's really wonderful
to be back.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Well to know when the publisher's get a fantastic job
laying out this book, you gotta be psyched.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
It really looks beautiful. I mean, the hardcover is fantastic, fantastic.
The photos are bright, crisp and colorful and clear, and
they really did a great job of the layout.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
And you tell the story of you two throughout fifty years.
The first chapter titled Another Time, Another Place, with the
quote drummer seeks musicians to form band. According to the book,
actually we're just over forty nine years from the exact
day that the band came together for the first time.
We're recording this on October second. It was September twenty
sixth of nineteen seventy six. Ben not called You two

(01:18):
right away, and there was a fifth member early on.
If you could take us back to the origins of
You Two.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
So it's nineteen seventy six in Dublin and it was
Larry Mullen Junior, the drummer of You Two, who had
posted up that notice up at the school Mount Temple
Comprehensive School, and it's where all the members went to YouTube.
All the members of You Two went to school there
as teenagers. Bono back then was Paul Hewson, the Edge
was David Evans, and then you had Adam Clayton to

(01:45):
kind of round things out. And they weren't called You
two at first when they initially formed. They were feedback
because that was really the only musical term they knew,
and then they called themselves the Hype and the name
You Two actually came from Steve Averil, who went by
Steve Rapid. He was a member of the punk group
Radiators from Space and it was because the graphic of

(02:07):
a letter and a number looked really pleasing on a poster.
And as he became on to do all of YouTube's
album covers and even become a great graphic designer outside
of YouTube, you know, that was a very apt thing
for him to put together. And you're right. There was
a fifth member at the beginning, Dick Evans, who was
the Edge's older brother, And it was on that date

(02:30):
you mentioned, September twenty sixth, nineteen seventy six, that they
first played together, and they all fitted really tightly into
the kitchen of Larry's house, playing whatever covers of bands
they liked at the time, t Rex, the Rolling Stones,
Bay City Rollers. And during that kitchen rehearsal they were
also joined by Ivan McCormick, who was the younger brother
of Neil McCormick, one of their friends who would later

(02:51):
become the music critic for The Daily Telegraph. But Ivan
wouldn't last long, and neither would Dick, because he was
a few years older and already in college while the
others were still in high school. And you know, at
that age, your really world's apart at just a few years,
and so he had his own rhythm, his own pace,
at that point and didn't quite mesh with the core
unit that would develop of Adam Larry David and Paul

(03:15):
Adam Larry, Bono and Edge. There was a rehearsal space
in the early days called the Yellow House, where the
band was called Feedback at the time, met every Saturday,
a small cottage in the same graveyard where Bono's mother
was buried. How young was Bono when his mother died
and how would that affect him as a person, as
an artist in the years to come. It really is

(03:37):
such a sad story. So Bono was fourteen when his mother,
named Iris Houston, passed away, and that is already a
difficult thing, especially for a child. But what makes it
even more tragic was how it happened. Iris had suffered
a brain aneurysm while the family was attending the funeral
for her father, so Bono's grandfather, and she had collapsed

(03:58):
right in the middle of it. I think she perhaps
collapsed as his casket was being lowered, but I'm not
exactly too sure. And Bono recalls this in his memoir
Surrender and just talking about the experience of seeing her
being taken away, and I think he was like seeing
like snooker balls, parting, just watching his mother being carried
through the crowd, and he turned to music to help

(04:20):
deal with that. And you know, with someone who has
been performing as long as Bono has, you kind of
assume it's something he's always done, you know, but you know,
you think he was a singer from the very beginning
and that he was encouraged to pursue that. But when
Iris was alive, Bono had no musical ambitions and his
mother certainly didn't see anything musical within him. But however,

(04:40):
he needed a place to channel his grief and anger
because his home growing up without his mother just being him,
his dad and his brother, it was a place of
concentrated male rage where the topic of Iris's passing was
just never discussed. And it's something that has been, you know,
with him that entire time, because he was an emotionally

(05:02):
fragile teenager who needed music to process that grief and
his mother became a topic in several songs within YouTube's catalog,
and it's even something he revisits, not just in his
memoir Surrender, but also in that stage show that he
did Stories of Surrender in kind of recalling that and
recalling what his relationship was father, growing up in that

(05:24):
house without her.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
And they signed a contract with Island Records during March
of nineteen eighty and they promised a debut within the
first year, and that would be the album Boy, which
features the single I Will Follow. It's the only song
you two has performed on every tour. What is the
song about? And also can you talk about why it's
such an important song for the band.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
I Will Follow is also the track that opens the
album Boy, and I think that's a very bold move
because it's one of those songs where Bono is processing
his grief over losing his mother. It's a song about
unconditional love that a mother has for a child and
him wrestling with no longer hait that and it's something
that he desires so much in the song that the

(06:03):
lyrics are about a young boy following his mother into
the grave, and that is you know, that's that's tragic
to think about when you know, to think of a
child wanting to you know, you follow your mother all
your life. You know your hand is holding her hand,
she leads the way, and when she's no longer there,
his instinct is to follow her into that place that

(06:24):
he can't go and he's left alone with that.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
You're right, well, Boy had been recorded in a little
over a month, with sessions finishing in September nineteen eighty
and would be the quickest You two would ever record
an album. Reached number fifty two in the UK sixty
three in the US, a solid opening. They followed that
with nineteen eighty one's October, which has Fire and Gloria.
The Edge assumed the band would work quickly to develop

(06:47):
new ideas for songs after touring and building up confidence
off of that, but that wasn't so, and making matters
worse was an incident in March of nineteen eighty one
involving a brave case. What was in that brief case
and what happened to it?

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, so you two were working in a really tight
deadline with touring. They weren't really making headway in the UK.
So their key to success early on was trying to
play these American markets, and it was really tight scheduled
doing all these shows and trying to make what would
become that second album, October, And so it was a
time where a lot of things were just happening really fast,

(07:24):
and during a gig in Portland, Bono had a briefcase
that was stolen from the band's green room, presumably by
a couple of women who came and visited during the show.
And this briefcase, among other things like his work visa
and letters from Ali, who was his then girlfriend and
would become his future wife, this briefcase contained the lyrics
and song ideas for what would become October. And naturally,

(07:47):
this was an incredibly disruptive thing and Bono had to
rewrite a lot of that material from memory. And you
can hear this on October because some of the songs
sound a little unfinished and more rough than when you
listen to Boy Go and listen to Boy and October
back to back. There is a lot of thematic overlap
and even a lot of sonic overlap because they had

(08:10):
to make it very quickly and with less time to
get these song ideas together. And even then Bono wasn't
much of a songwriter. He talks about songwriting as sketching,
just him putting words to music, because they didn't think
that lyrics were necessarily so important, and it was an
experience that really left an impact on Bono. Whenever the

(08:30):
band would play Portland, he would bring up the briefcase
hoping someone would return it, which is what happened twenty
three years later in two thousand and four, a woman
in Tacoma, Washington named Cindy Harris. She had that briefcase
in her attic, but didn't know that it was stolen,
and so she had made arrangements to give it back
to Bono. And there's a story of this. You can

(08:52):
read about this in a book of edited essay collections
called Exploring You Two, edited by Scott Calhoun, and there
actually is a story from the person who returned it
telling that it's a really interesting story.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Staying with October, You're right. Quote you two's religious convictions
can be heard throughout October. It was religion that almost
broke up the band early.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
On right because three of the members of the band, Bono,
Edge and Larry were members of an evangelical Christian group
called the Shalom Fellowship. Adam was not a member of that.
He was not a particularly religious person, and this fellowship
was really strict about the proper way to be a Christian.
They felt that you had to in order to be
a good Christian, had to really dedicate yourselves to their

(09:35):
following and their teachings, and the Fellowship kept telling the
band that they couldn't be both in a rock group
and a faithful follower of Christ at the same time.
They had to choose one or the other, and that
decision almost tore the band apart. Certainly, the Edge was
having a crisis a confidence and told Bono that he
was thinking about leaving the band over it, and Bono

(09:56):
wanted to support his friend, and because if the Edge
wasn't going to be in you two, then was he.
And he tells the story in Surrender where he recalls
that when they went to tell their manager, Paul McGinnis
about quitting the band, Paul McGinnis had told them to
ask God whether it was acceptable for them to break
a legal contract. So basically you two kept from breaking

(10:17):
up because they didn't want to upset God by not
fulfilling their contractual obligations, like, oh God, would you know
be upset if we broke our promise? And you know,
I don't want to belittle that kind of crisis and
confidence that they had because growing up in Ireland at
that time a very religious country, and you know, them
being a part of that environment. I mean, I think

(10:38):
it's a struggle that every young person has in terms
of trying to navigate their faith in what that means.
And they were able to at that time and over
the years since kind of process how to juggle being
in a band and being you know, a good Christian
at the same time. You know, there's a lot of
people going to tell you what you should and should
it do. And they were impressiable young men, and I

(10:59):
think to the benefit of all of their fans, I'm
glad they stuck together.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, they were barely into their twenties, I think at
that time.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Oh, just teenagers.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Teenagers. My first YouTube memories come from the third album
War New Year's Day. The video was on all the Time,
Two Hearts Beat as One, Sunday Bloody Sunday. Those are
the two other singles. NTV played Sunday Bloody Sunday the
live version all the Time Steve Lillywhite. He returned for
his third producer credit. But you read about how Bono

(11:31):
had considered using a different producer for each song to
vary the album's sonic flow. It didn't happen. There would
be a producer change on the next album, but talk
about War. This was the band's first career defining album
and it continues to resonate today.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Bono did have the idea that every song would be
produced by a different producer. That's the kind of break
their stride of what they had been doing with Boy
in October and on War, there is a track that's
not produced by Steve Willie White. It's the Refugee and
if you listen to it, it's a very new wave sounding.
I really liked that track, but a lot of YouTube

(12:10):
fans don't because it sounds.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
So new wave.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
But More is really the album that gave you to
their breakthrough. The UK music press wasn't paying much attention
to them because they were from Ireland, and which is
why they toured their first two albums mostly in America,
and it was America where they really found their audience.
And those singles from the album that you mentioned, Sunday,
Bloody Sunday in New Year's Day, We're getting a lot
of play on college radio, which certainly helped the album.

(12:35):
But when they released their first concert video in support
of the War album, which was under a blood Red
Sky that was recorded at the Red Rocks, Amphitheater in Colorado.
That's where they became a sensation because clips from that
video then became heavy rotation MTV, which you saw when
you were younger. I mean, it has that performance where
Bono's waving that white flag. It really became their first

(12:57):
iconic performance, and just that symbol with him and that
white flag. It's something that continues to endure in their legacy.
Having seen YouTube perform at the Sphere in Las Vegas
in twenty twenty three, I mean, that white flag appears
in some form, you know, in that so it's something
that still they carry with them after all this time.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Chapter two is titled in God's Country. It leads with
quote the start of nineteen eighty four signaled a change
in YouTube sound the Unforgettable Fire from nineteen eighty four.
It has Pride in the Name of Love, co produced
by the team of Daniel Lenois and Brian Eno. What
was you two's reason for wanting that sound change.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Well, it was after finishing war. You know, the band
felt they really had done everything they could with that
harder rock, post punk sound, and they felt they they
could they had taken as far as they could go.
I mean, if they probably continued with that sound, they
likely would not have survived as a band. And even
when we think of bands from that time who kind
of maintain a consistent sound, you know, they're they're still

(13:58):
kind of restling on their laurel, you know, for a
lot of them, and for them making another album the
same sonic aesthetic, which is be too repetitive. And you know,
I'm sure it was not an easy decision to move
on from that, especially with the success they were now
experiencing with War and under a blood red sky. You know.
You know, there's that saying, if it's not broken, don't
fix it. But they wanted to move on to something else,

(14:19):
and I think that's that's a very important thing for
artists to do.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
The dynamic between the band and the producers at the
start of recording is fascinating. Bono's quoted in the book
about that period. He said, quote with Eno, we discovered
the spirit of our music and a confidence in ourselves.
The emphasis was on the moment in recording. On the spontaneity,
Bono usually came in with lyrics rough lyrics and needed

(14:44):
to be constantly singing in order to finish the song
that seemed to be tough for the band, but Lenoi
and Eno they liked that approach right absolutely.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Eno is very much a believer in experimentation and trying
new things, which is lastly why they wanted to work
with him. And Eno had been integral to other artists
who were in transitional periods, like Bowie during his Berlin years,
and you two were big fans of Bowie and they're
big fans of Roxy music that you know was a
part of you know, also produced Peter Gabriel, who they
were fans of. And you have to remember that you too,

(15:17):
despite being their fourth album, were still fairly young and
learning themselves. They had limited experience when they formed. They
taught themselves to be a rock band and then decided
to essentially start over with this new sonic identity. So
there's certainly growing pains that be had with that sort
of thing. But when you surround yourself with smart and
talented people who can shepherd you through that, you know,

(15:40):
you can get a lot of success. And Eno was
the right person for them at the right time. And
I've heard this joke from critics of U two's music
that if you happen to be a fan of U
two's music. It's only because you're really a fan of
Brian Inoo.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
On rock podcasts. Will be back after this well.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Well waiting, Bradley Morgan, the author of You Two Until
the End of the World. Their appearance at Live Aid
that sealed the deal. You two had arrived globally with
their set, which you know was the band's closer for
the Unforgettable Fire tour, and it sets up an even
bigger album with Joshua Tree. Unforgettable Fire reached number one

(16:18):
in the UK, twelve in the US, but with Joshua
Tree number one in eight countries including the US, multiple
smash hit singles with or without you, I still haven't
found what I'm looking for Where the streets have no Name,
And in one Album of the Year at the Grammys,
you wrote an entire book on this album, twenty twenty
one's Youtubo's The Joshua Tree Planting Roots in Mythic America,

(16:40):
and you were on the show to talk about that
book so people can find it, talk about how you
two's experiences and understanding of America would directly impact the
songwriting on The Joshua Tree.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
So you two, as young lads growing up in Ireland,
they had this particular image of America. To them, America
was a sort of promised land because it had historically
been a refuge for the Irish to escape famine and violence.
And at the time when they were growing up in
the seventies, Ireland was going through a period of rapid development,

(17:13):
you know, small towns being concentrated into cities and too
high and into tower buildings, and there was a lot
of economic problems. There was a lot of drug problems,
other social problems, and so this became sort of a
mythic idea for them America. But it was while touring
America that they realized that there was a lot more

(17:33):
to the country than they had realized. That we as
Americans have our own economic and social and political problems
that further marginalize the non powerful, you know, specifically like
women and people of color. And this idea specifically came
from observing Ronald Reagan's presidency and the impact I was
having on Americans and people all around the world, whether
it be his economic policy you know, labeled as Reaganomics,

(17:56):
or the military interventions in El Savador and Nicaragua, and
this had a profound impact on them. The edge has
even said that they didn't understand their own irishness until
they came to America. But however, instead of becoming cynical
about that, they wanted to express the full entirety of

(18:17):
their feelings about America, like the full America through music
and that while there were a lot of problems that
they saw, there was a lot of beauty, especially with
the landscape, the music, the culture, and they really wanted
to elevate and raise this idea that you could admonish
something that you love, that you can criticize something that
you love. And the album that would become The Joshua

(18:38):
Tree was going to reflect that because it was originally
going to be called The Two Americas, and the idea
was going to represent the dichotomy of life in America.
This promised land concept versus the reality dynamic that they
had realized while they were touring.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
And before they reinvented their sound with Octune Baby, there
was the release of nineteen eighty eighth Rattle and Harm
which is a Lie studio album, a live slash studio
album with the companion film. Jimmy Iovine brought in to
produce the album Desire Angel of Harlem when Love comes
to Town. All I Want is you. They'll come from
this album. They reached number one in the UK number

(19:13):
three in the US. You write the book quote. Despite
the success of The Joshua Tree and its ensuing tour,
you two were unable to earn the acclaim their first
film Under a blood Red Sky had achieved. Though it
became the highest grossing documentary at the time of its release,
the film was much maligned by the press. So what
were the criticisms and how do you feel about the
album and the film.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
The Joshua Tree was you Two's way of commenting on
America and what that meant to them as young men
from Ireland, and you two has historically had this issue
as a band, you know, throughout their career, and ratal
Oahama is certainly the first example of this where they
have this issue that once they have an idea they
like and works in them, they really push it as

(19:55):
far as they can go. So they continue this with
Rattle and Humm, but more in a way that really
drew out the influence that roots and American blues music
was having them at the time, and essentially they were
trying to sell American music back to Americans, but through
their own lenses and audiences just weren't having it. They
knew that music, they knew that sound, they grew up

(20:15):
with it. You know. You two was excited saying, look
at we discovered, Look how this is influencing us. But
Americans had already seen it, and you two had only
been releasing music for about eight years at that point.
But now here they were covering the Beatles and Bob
Dylan playing with BB King, and this left some audiences
thinking that you two were placing themselves higher in the
cultural hierarchy than many believed they should have at that time,

(20:38):
and precisely because they were still relatively new and not
the rock and roll Hall of famers we know today.
You were asking me, you know, what would happened if
they would have continued doing that war sound. Maybe it
would have resulted in a similar kind of backlash that
Rattle hom experienced and as a result they started to
become a bloated show band. Bono talks about this in
the documentary From the Sky Down about Raiding Octun Baby

(21:01):
in the journey from Rattle and Ham to Octun Baby
and and audiences back home in Ireland, he said felt
that they were becoming less Irish and more American, almost
becoming caricatures, and that was having an effect on the
band that made them question what they were doing. And
as far as my own feelings about the documentary, I've
seen it a few times. I watched it twice for

(21:21):
this writing this book, and has his entertaining moments. Certainly,
there's this performance of where the Streets Have No Name
as an absolute highlight, and it's worth checking out on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Agreed, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
It's really cool from Arizona. But also I was a
year old when the film came out, so it's legacy
was already in the Milu of Utube's history, and I
was aware of it by the time i'd seen it.
So it's a cultural document that I appreciate, but it's
not something that I returned too often with anything with
you two. I always gravitate to the music more than

(21:53):
I do the video stuff, and there's some really interesting
things on that album, certainly the performance, so I still
haven't found what I'm looking for with the with the
New Voices of Freedom Gospel Choir is an absolute highlight
of that, and there are some interesting tracks on their
Heartland is kind of a Joshua Tree esque thing that's

(22:14):
not as good, but it's still interesting. Dylan plays and
performs on Love Rescue Me Desires, a cool single, There
are some you know little It's an uneven album, but
it's it's a pretty good one.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Uneven is the word I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Nineteen ninety one's Octune Baby released November nineteen ninety one,
another massive hit album with five singles, The Fly the
top ten, Mysterious Ways and One the top forty, even
better than the Real Thing? And Who's going to Ride
Your Wild Horses? A reinvention of You Two? A risk
it paid off. How did the critical backlash that You

(22:52):
Two received at the close of the eighties influence this album?

Speaker 3 (22:56):
So after rattling a hum there was a lot of
debate in the band about what direction to go in musically.
And there is a New Year's Eve performance where Bono said,
maybe it's not in New Year's Eve, maybe it's actually
like December thirtieth, where he tells the audience that we're
going to go back and dream it all up again.
And a new decade was dawning and a lot of
walls were coming down, revealing new ideas like quite literally.

(23:18):
The Berlin wallfell during November nineteen eighty nine, and at
the same time there was all this exciting electronic music
coming out of Germany and the rest of Europe that
was bright, colorful and really signaled like the future possibilities
of culture and technology and art. And you two having
done everything they could with America as a musical theme,
we're now setting their sights on Europe and helping figure

(23:41):
out their future, essentially kind of a return to home.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Essentially, Tensions within any band is expected at some point,
but I guess it surprised me with YouTube because they
seemed like they all got along great. But at this
time a lot of there's a lot of dissension, a
lot there's a lot of fights internally. Bono and Daniel
Lenoi almost fought. Adam Clayton had a moment with Bono
in the studio he read about he he hainted Bonos

(24:07):
bass and basically said, you think you know how to
do it, you go ahead and play. So things were
getting things were getting tense. They were pretty close to
breaking up during those recording sessions.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
That's right. Things were becoming really tense and the band
was close to breaking up over creative differences. Bonno on
the Edge wanted to explore a more experimental sound based
on the electronic music that they were discovering at that time,
bands like km FDM and The Young Gods, while Adam
Larry wanted to stay rooted in rock and roll. You know,
when they were growing up in Ireland to the seventies,

(24:40):
they were kind of limited in what music was available
to them, and so there's a lot of bands that
maybe we take for granted that you know, they were
just hearing and discovering for the first time and trying
to figure out how that kind of fits with the
core of what they were doing. And it's already difficult
enough to figure out and understand what you want when
you're unsure yourself in your own direction. I'm sure each

(25:02):
of one of them, every single one of them, wasn't
confident about the future of you two. But not only
to figure that out for yourself, but have to factor
in the same thing for three other people, all of them,
all of them trying to understand themselves just as much
you are with yourself. It can create a lot of
tension and frustration. But it was the big breakthrough, The
big break breakthrough that got the band through. That was
the song one. It came out of a jam and

(25:25):
they kind of formulated the song together. They found they
found it and it was really what saved them and
moved them through finishing the album.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
And for those who are curious, there are songs that
they were working on that they put aside that they
had started recording, and they're on YouTube. You can find
them right. There are demos there versions, like totally separate
songs along with songs that kind of morph into what
we hear on Octunebaby, I believe if I remember correctly, Yeah,

(25:57):
there are.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
There's a there's a big set that came out and
for the twentyth anniversary that has all that and I
think you can even stream.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, so it's on the deluxe edition, the deluxe.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Edition, and actually you can stream a lot of that
material for the thirtieth anniversary on all the streaming services.
The one thing that thirtieth anniversary doesn't have that that
twentieth does is there's that Kindergarten set. So it's a
whole city of like early demo, it's the entire Octune
Baby album, but like the early versions of those songs,

(26:25):
and so you can hear those kind of early demos,
and you can even hear not demos but final products
of new music that they were making. They had made
a score to a stage adaptation of a Clarkrook Orange
by Anthony de Burgess and that is kind of like
got a funky electronic vibe as well, so even before

(26:47):
Octune Baby, you got a sense of what direction they
were going in. They also contributed a cover of a
Cold Porter song for that Red Hot and Blue album
that was the benefit of the AIDS crisis, and that's
got like a dark electronic vibe as well, and that
precedes octog Baby.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
And there were two different locations recording locations, right yep.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
They were recorded in Hansa Studios in Berlin, where Bowie
had worked back in the seventies. It used to be
a vimar Era like ballroom and then it then became
a recording studio and then I think they finished it
up in Ireland.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Booked on rock podcasts. We'll be back after this.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
I mean, there's like no way that we can just
pause for a minute. You guys just go home and
do your stuff and then tomorrow we can just like continue.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Hey, guys, thanks so much. For checking out the Booked
on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
share on social media and let people know about Booked
on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, run Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify,

(28:00):
tune in, and on YouTube music. You can check out
the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
to the show. As far away as Attune Baby was
from You two's eighties roots nineteen ninety three is Zuopa,
featuring the single's numb Lemon stay so Far, So Close

(28:23):
you say represented YouTube, pushing themselves away from that sound
even further than they did on Octoon Baby. Yet the
band wasn't done pushing boundaries even further. In nineteen ninety seven,
they released pop in It. Bono continues to satirize the media,
but more from the intersection of irony and celebrity culture.

(28:44):
You're read in the book quote making music influenced by
what was happening in dance clubs. Pop also lyrically lampoons
the culture by holding a mirror to its face. Discotheque
Staring at the Sun, Last Night on Earth, Please, if
God will send his Angels and Mofa. Those are all
the singles. A lot of singles released, and it initially
received favorable reviews from critics. It reached number one in

(29:07):
thirty five countries, including the UK and the US, so
the numbers were great. However, the album's lifetime sales are
among the lowest in Utube's catalog, and it received only
a single platinum certification. We talked about how the way
the band was perceived by the end of the eighties
and how it influenced where they went to start the nineties.

(29:28):
Where is the band at in the aftermath of pop?
In the massive Zoo TV tour?

Speaker 3 (29:35):
So just as Roland Hum saw you to push the
theme of America and American music inspiring them as far
as they could take it, so did they do the
same thing with pop and the arrival of the nineteen nineties?
Was this exciting time culturally and technologically. The Internet was
on its way and the Joshua Tree depicted in black
and white, these stone faced men looking serious in the desert.

(29:57):
But Octune Baby was about turning that round in full
technicolor fanfare, and they kept pushing that throughout the throughout
the nineties, and when they toured Octang Baby for Zoo TV,
they had constructed a stage that had these giant video
screens that played TV programming as a commentary on the
saturation of mass media and its influence on our culture

(30:19):
and in our environment. But by the time of Pop
Martin nineteen ninety eight, which was rushed by the which
was rushed by the way that the album pop, they
they they didn't finish it to their liking because they
had to have these touring commitments. So it was already
kind of marred from the start from from the start
because it wasn't fully realized, and when they started the
tour they hadn't rehearsed a lot of the songs as

(30:41):
well as they should have, so there was a lot
of problems. But by the time of Pop Martin ninety eight,
instead of a bunch of screens, it's now one giant
screen flashing pop culture references like Laura Croft, you know,
the video game character, and also the band would do
things like descent onto the stage, riding inside a giant
and Marina marabal Lemon, almost like an Andy Warhol esque

(31:03):
parody of mid to late nineties culture. And I don't
think a lot of people understood it at the time
because it seemed like the joke that had started with
Octune Baby and Zoo TV just started to go on
for too long. And again, just like with the eighties,
them becoming now this showboat American band, they're nearly becoming
caricatures of what they were. And since then, over the

(31:23):
last thirty years, pop has seen a more positive reevaluation.
And I think there are a lot of great things
from that part of their career, even if it does
at time seem like okay, fellas, we get it. But
you know, if they do a kind of release with
some extra material from that, I would be really interested
in that, or even just like, you know, here's how
we originally wanted pop to be if we had the

(31:43):
time to do it.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, And I don't think they play any songs off
of that album on tour live.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Not really no. I mean Staring at the Sun perhaps,
but not a lot.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Of them, which is more like their previous work, so
it makes sense that they would do that. But I
think the album's got some good moments on it as
a whole. Not a huge fan, but boy, there's some
songs on there I really love. So I guess if
you're a YouTube fan, you can find something in every album.
But moving on now to late October two thousand, All

(32:15):
that you Can't Leave Behind was released the lead single,
Beautiful Day. It has stuck in a moment, you can't
get out of elevation and walk on all hit singles.
They repossessioned themselves in mainstream music culture. YouTube known for
taking risks, but here they proved they knew when it
was time to get the train back on the tracks.

(32:36):
I mean, how do you feel about this move by
the band? I mean, if they recorded another album like
pop It, I don't know if they could have recovered
from it.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
So how do I feel about it? I'm a little
biased about this because this is my first utwo CD.
I bought this at thirteen, and I bought it in Ireland.
I bought it in Waterford, Ireland on vacation to visit
my family because at thirteen, Beautiful Day was big elevation
which had this kind of harder rock remix for the
two Raider movie. I mean that was just perfect for me,

(33:05):
and I think I was aware of YouTube other than that,
but sort of like going to buy my first like
my first You two CD, it was that one. So
it has a special place in my heart. But looking
back on it over the last twenty five years, it's
an album that typically gets thought of as YouTube re
turning back to basics, but I don't think that's an
accurate way to see it. You know, it does represent

(33:26):
them moving on and adjusting to the culture as it
was at that time. And certainly there are some tracks
where you can hear pops lingering electronic influences. Certainly the
opening A Beautiful Day, you have a couple like little
tonal notes of that electronic work, and even the track
New York, which is heavily electronic, does you know, you know,
really showcases that. But it the album does things on

(33:50):
its own that the earlier albums do not. You could
argue that they didn't take as many risks as they
had with earlier albums, but the very idea that they
were trying to hone a more temporary and a more
adult sound that you know is coming with them being
men getting older, while not strayed too far from the
core of their band, I think is a type of risk.
They certainly didn't try to do what they had already

(34:12):
done before with that album.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, interesting point, Yeah you rt quote. When you two
went back into the studio to record a new album
in February of two thousand and three, they wanted to
continue the band focus dynamic established during All That You
Can't Leave Behind, but also focus on producing a harder
rock sound while improving their songwriting, and the result would
be the two thousand and four album How Did Dismantle

(34:34):
an Atomic Bomb? Vertigo Sometimes you can't make it on
your own City of Blinding Lights and all because of
you number one in thirty four countries, including the US
eight Grammys. But things didn't get off to a great start.
The early sessions talk about those with producer Chris Thomas,
who had produced The Sex Pistols previously.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, so they.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Wanted to get into this harder rock sound to kind
of go to their roots and the music that had
inspired them. So they wanted to work with Chris Thomas,
who had produced the sex Pistoles because they love the
sex Pistoles and they love that album never mind the bollocks,
But what ended up being how to dismandle The Atomic
Bomb is not that harder rock album. There are certain
elements of it, so they pretty much had a complete

(35:16):
album ready to go that he produced, but they couldn't
get the full band to agree on it. And one
thing that sets you two apart from a lot of
other bands, and also explains why they've been together for
so long, is that they only do things that the
whole band agrees and they share everything equally. And with
this early version of the Atomic Bomb album, the band
was split pretty much as split as they were on

(35:37):
the direction of octun Baby Bottom on the edge liked
the album, while Larry and Adam felt the songs lacked
a certain something like that oomph. They just weren't feeling
that oomph. So they reached out to Steve lilly White,
to their first producer in somebody whose opinion that they
could trust, and he listened to it and he described
the album as as having the weight of the world
on its shoulders, but that it wasn't any fun. So

(36:01):
they went back and worked on it and with Steve
producing the album, which he hadn't done since War twenty
years earlier.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
There were sessions with Rick Rubin. Were those What's the
story behind that?

Speaker 3 (36:12):
I don't know a lot of details about it. There
are like two singles I think that came out of that.
One of them is Windows in the Sky, which appears
on the You Two eighteen Singles compilation. And I think
it was just a matter of just creative differences in
terms of the process. You Two is a band that
likes to experiment in the studio. They don't come in

(36:34):
with really any solid ideas. They work together until they
find a groove or an idea that they like, and
they fleshed out from there. From what I understand in
terms of Rick Rubin as a producer and the way
that he likes to work, is that he wants you
to have a solid idea of what you want when
you come in, and then he just takes you over
the goal line. And I don't think he really messed

(36:56):
with their way of working. I don't think they meshed
with his way of working and just couldn't come to
kind of any kind of agreement. And since over the
last twenty years, you know, they haven't released that many albums,
and it's because they now they're at a place in
their life where they want to spend more time on
something until they get it the way that they absolutely want.

(37:16):
And I think that's a I think that's a learning
experience from the pop debacle. So no one's rushing you
to make an album. They make whatever they want to make,
you know, good or bad. But they and they want
people to understand that. And so that's my that I
think that I think that's what happened with them was
just that Rick wanted something that was more complete than

(37:37):
they came.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
With, and that was around the time of dismantling Atomic Pop.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
YEP, a couple years after Okay Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Two thousand and nine's No Line on the Horizon has
some of my favorite YouTube songs, including Magnificent and I'll
Go Crazy if I Don't Go Crazy Tonight. Also on
their get on Your Boots and I'm Missing One other
one right.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Moment of Surrender.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah. Moment of It was not a single though, was.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Not a single, but a great you two song commercial success,
debuted at number one in thirty countries, It didn't earn
the accolades and acclaim received by the previous two albums,
why do you think that.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Is well, predominantly the music landscape was changing. Rock as
the dominant genre in music for several decades, was losing
its place in the cultural hierarchy with the rise of
hip hop and rap, and the Internet and the advent
of streaming media was changing people's relationships with music, how
they consumed it, what they had access to, more options

(38:36):
and more availability. And while You two were still a
huge touring band, and the U two three sixty tour
in support of that album that would become the highest
grossing tour at that time, but You two for many
young people discovering their musical taste, you know, as teenagers
or college students at the time, You two was their
dad's favorite band. You know, teenagers thinks to the Internet
had more musical outlets than those did when You two

(38:58):
was dominating the charts the eighties and nineties, when you
had fewer options and opportunities to discover new music.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Booked on rock podcasts, will be back after this?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Never ever, ever, under any circumstances, say I'll be right back,
because you won't be back.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
I'm getting out of the berrial on one. Yeah, sure,
I'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Find the bookdown rock website at booked on rock dot com.
There you can find all the back episodes of the show,
the latest episode in video and audio links to all
of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
and x. Also check out the Booked on Rock blog.
Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest

(39:45):
hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
the Booked on Rock online store. Pick up some booked
on Rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot com.
The music industry drastically changed file sharing eventually services. Their
twenty fourteen album, Songs of Innocence was released, and it

(40:07):
was free to iTunes customers. This is a well known
story you write quote though they were reportedly paid a
lump sum and Apple spent one hundred million dollars on
marketing for Apple Music in the album. Many musicians and
industry experts criticized YouTube for allegedly sending a message to
consumers that suggested music should be free as opposed to

(40:27):
being purchased as someone's art and livelihood. There was also
public outcry accusing Apple and you two of adding music
to people's libraries without permission, stemming from an opt in
feature on iTunes or in iTunes that automatically enabled music downloads.
You two again known for taking risks. Some paid off,
some didn't. I'm curious as to what you think about

(40:49):
the band's decision doing that. Looking back on it now
eleven years later.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I think people are thinking about the wrong thing when
they talk about the Apple music fiasco with that album,
because you know, people pro release, which are largely a
lot of YouTube fans, They're like, well, that's a free thing,
you know, what does it matter?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
And I it's whatever.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
I don't really think about that. But it's the other side.
It's this, you know, this side of I didn't give
permission for this music to be added to my iTunes. Okay,
you signed this giant terms of agreement and usage for
a proprietary platform developed on a proprietary device by one
of the biggest technology companies in the world. You don't

(41:32):
own that. Even the stuff that you purchase on their
store digitally, whatever movies or TV shows or music, you
really don't own that. And so I think that, you know,
people tend to forget that this is not your music collection.
It's a it's a collection that's curated in a space
that you don't own or control. And so to me,

(41:52):
that's the larger thing. And you know, you two can
be you know, the punching bags for this, you know,
all they want, But it's really the technology companies, really Apple,
that really should be getting the criticism, and I don't
think they get the criticism enough because you know, I,
you know, it's that's the device I have, that's the
computer I have, you know, and I like those things.
And really, you know, so Apple spent one hundred million

(42:17):
dollars marketing this Apple Music app and they needed some
big name to sell that, and any other artists I
think would have had the same response, whether it be
Beyonce or Taylor Swift. I think it would just be
a lose lose for the artists in general. And it
still kind of coming up eleven years later, it's become
to take my wife please of music journalism hacks. I

(42:40):
saw this article somewhere on the Joshua Tree that it
was it was like a modern review of the Joshua
Tree and opened up with this this Apple Music thing,
and it was like it was like before the Apple
Music fiasco, and what does this twenty fourteen thing have
to do with this album from the eighties. It's a
very lazy way to frame it. And you know, it's

(43:04):
and it's not a bad album. It's actually a pretty
decent album. I mean, songs of the album that came afterwards,
Songs of Experience is not that creative an album, but
Songs of Innocence I think stands and you know, in
the top half of their discography for sure, and some
critics have some critics have lightened up a bit about
that when they saw YouTube play those songs for the

(43:24):
Innocence and Experienced tour in twenty fifteen, saying that the
release really impacted their views of the songs initially, but
when they got to see them live, got to really
appreciate the songs for what they were. And so, you know,
if you've stopped yourself from listening to that album because
of the Apple Music thing, actually, you know, if you're
open to if you're open to YouTube, give it a listen.

(43:47):
And really, you know, for as much criticism as they
as they got for it, I think it worked way
in ways that aren't really obvious several of their albums
and a compilation went back into like the top forty
on the iTunes charts, you know, because they found people
who didn't know who they were, who were who was
willing to check them out. It was a big risk

(44:08):
to say, look, there's you know, as big as you
two is, as many people like you too, there's a
ton more that don't even know who you two is,
and this is a way for them to become aware.
And I think just that awareness is a type of success.
Was it a bad decision? I mean, I don't really know.
I think it's I think bands, especially legacy bands, are

(44:30):
struggling with how to get their music out there.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
You know.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Certainly like you know, uh, you know, like The Cure
is Is is a band that has to constantly tour,
you know, in order to be successful. So it's I'm
a little softer on it than I than the critics are.
But I think generally the framing is wrong. It's the
if you the onus needs to be on Apple and

(44:55):
not this idea that oh I own my iTunes library.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Every Breaking Way is a song that's held up very well.
That's one of the best latter era YouTube songs. And
that does have Iris the song Iris about Bono's mother
on there. Miracle of Joey ramone song for Someone, another
great one Raised by Wolves I was always a fan of.
So definitely worth Sleep like a Baby Tonight is another one. Yeah,

(45:21):
it's definitely worth giving a listen. If if there's anybody
that's listening to this that kind of gave up on
YouTube because of it, go and listen to that album.
Now you lead Chapter five, which is titled Love is
All We Have Left with quote the new millenniums saw
YouTube enter an era in which they could look back
on their career while still defining it. Songs of Innocence

(45:42):
twenty fourteen explores the band member's adolescent years in nineteen
seventies Ireland, Songs of Experience in twenty seventeen that gets
into the more mature themes of loss and mortality, and
Songs of Surrender in twenty twenty three, a collection of
forty re recorded and reimagined songs from the band's history,
reflecting on their past to understand their present and future.

(46:03):
You Too recently had a successful residency in Las Vegas
at the Sphere, which you said you were one show.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Did you go to I would. It was, yeah, the
U two UV in October. I can't remember what number
show it was, but yeah, it was a great experience.
It was in October of that of twenty twenty three.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Okay, so that was towards the beginning of it, because
it started in September of twenty twenty three, went to
March twenty twenty four. And you right at the end
of the book quote, after fifty years performing as a band,
you two show no signs of standing still. What do
you think the future holds for you two? What do
you hope for?

Speaker 3 (46:35):
I don't know what I'm looking forward to finding out.
I don't know, but I'm looking forward to finding out
what they're going to do. And I don't really have
anything I'm hopeful for. But it's rather that I'm just
glad they're still around doing the stuff. I never really
care when people tell me they don't like you two,
or that they're not good anymore. It's like, who cares?
You know, the great albums are still great, and I
think it's inspiring to see a group of friends still

(46:58):
going strong after fifty years, because no other band has
accomplished that. They are the longest running band with no
lineup changes. And they've been smart for the most part
about how they handle their legacy. And they've been an
important part of my life for twenty five years, and
I'm very thankful to them for the music and memory
of the years. And so they could do what they
want and I could choose to listen if I want,
and I think that's quite a nice arrangement.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Perfectly stated. I feel the same way I said. I
was just saying to somebody the other day, I said,
some of these artists like a YouTube are ones that
I'm a fan of, that I've been a fan of,
that have been a part of my life.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
As you said, they.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Could literally fall flat on stage, and that doesn't change
what they did before. So and everybody loves the Levy
loves on Nowadays they go to YouTube and they like
to poke fun at these artists and how they sound
and how they look, and it's just I try not
to even look at the comments anymore because these are
once these bands are gone, and these artists are gone.

(47:53):
You know, there never will be another like them, and
you too, is absolutely just the body of work is
second to none. I'm a huge fan. So in this
book here you too, until the end of the world.
It's out October seven. You said that's correct, Okay, October seven.
Go out and get a copy wherever books are sold,

(48:15):
look forward at your nearest independent bookstore. If you want
to find your nearest independent bookstore, go to book down
Rock dot com. And where can people find you online?

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Bradley.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
My website is Bradleydashmorgan dot com. You can also find
me on blue Sky and Twitter at Bradley Morgan. I'm
pretty easy to find.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Awesome, Bradley, Thanks again, it was great seeing you. Great
to have you back on.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Really appreciate the opportunity. Eric, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
That's it. It's in the books.