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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Bookcast Bestsellers in minutes, Ready to tackle
another deep dive always this time we're looking at you've
all Noah Harari's Sapiens, A Brief History of Humankind.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A brief History of Humankind covering thirteen point five billion years.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah, that title is kind of ironic, right, a.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Bit, but hey, harari does pack a lot in from
the Big Bang to the future of intelligent design. He
tries to cover it all.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Talk about ambitious. Yeah, So for our listeners, we're diving
into the entire history of humankind from the very beginning
to well potentially even beyond where we are now exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And what makes this book so interesting is how hararii
connects everything. He doesn't just lay out a dry timeline.
He weaves in biology and propology, history, even philosophy. It's
like a tapestry of the human story.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So where does he even begin.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
With the cognitive revolution? It happened roughly seventy thousand years
ago and was a major turning point for us.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
For humans in general, or specifically for us Homo sapiens.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
For Homo sapiens, that's when we develop language, abstract thought,
the ability to believe in things that don't physically exist,
like God's nations. Money.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Wait, money doesn't physically.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Exist, well, not like a tree or a rock. It's
a shared belief. We all agree to give it value. Ah,
And this ability to believe in what Harari calls imagined
realities was key for Homo sapiens to succeed.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
We could cooperate in large numbers, build complex societies, and
well eventually dominate the planet.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, I'm starting to see why this deep dive might
get a little mind bending. So before the cognitive revolution,
what were humans like?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, for one thing, we weren't alone. For a big
chunk of human history, multiple human species were hanging out
together seriously.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Like imagine bumping into a Neanderthal at the grocery.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Store exactly, or a Denisaven. And they weren't just dumb
cave men either, right.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
They were complex beings with their own cultures.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And everything exactly. It really makes you rethink what it
means to be human.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It does. So why do you think Homo sapiens ended
up out competing these other species?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
That's a question that keeps anthropologists up at night. Harari
thinks our capacity for language an abstract thought gave us
an edge. He even has this fascinating theory that language
might have evolved at least in part for gossiping.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Gossiping Come on, I know, right.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
But think about it. In hunter gatherers societies, knowing the
social dynamics of your group was crucial. Who to trust,
who to avoid, who's hooking up with whom? Oh I see, Yeah,
that kind of information was key for survival.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
So spreading the latest gossip was actually a survival skill.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
It might have been.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Ah, there's a fun fact for our listeners, right.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It highlights how something seemingly trivial can have a big
impact on evolution. And of course, this ability to communicate
also allowed Homo sapiens to create those imagined realities, shared
beliefs that helped us cooperate on a massive scale.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
You mentioned money is an example of an imagined reality. Earlier,
what are some others?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
There's no physical line separating one country from another. It's
a concept, It's an agreement we collectively believe in. Right,
same with religions, corporations, legal systems, all imagined realities that
shape our lives.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So in a way, are these imagined realities that separate
us from other animals exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
No other species has been able to create and sustain
such complex systems of belief.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And those systems they've led to both good and bad,
haven't they.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Absolutely, they're double edged swords.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
We often think about ancient foragers as having these simpler,
happier lives or ARII kind of debunks that, doesn't he?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
He does. He says forgers probably had more diverse diets
and worked fewer hours than early farmers.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
But their lives were still tough, right, full.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Of danger and hardship. We shouldn't romanticize the.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Past, oh noble savage myth allowed? So what about their
inner lives? What do they believe in?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well written records from that time are scarce, but evidence
suggests many ancient forgers were animistic. They saw spirits and everything, trees, rocks, animals. Wow,
humans were just one part of this huge, interconnected web
of being.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I can see how that would be both fascinating and
a little terrifying to feel so connected to everything around you.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Absolutely, and it challenges our modern human centric worldview. Imagine
living in a world where spirits could talk to you
through the rustling leaves or a babbling brook.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It really highlights how much our beliefs shape our reality.
Even today. We might not believe in talking trees anymore,
but our world is built on its own set of
imagined reality.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Exactly, things like democracy, capitalism, human.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Rights, concepts that have a very real impact on how
we live and work and interact with each other.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right, it's amazing how these intangible ideas can shape our
concrete world.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
It is, And I'm guessing the story doesn't end there, right,
What happens after the cognitive revolution.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, that's when things get really interesting. Enter the agricultural revolution, which,
by the way, Harari calls history's biggest fraud.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Hold on fraud. How can something as fundamental as agriculture
be a fraud.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It's a bold statement, for sure, But to understand why,
he says that we need to shift our perspective. What
if we look at agriculture not as a human triumph,
but from the point of view of say, wheat.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Okay, now you've got me intrigued. Tell me more about
this wheat siye view of history.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, so we were talking about wheat.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, how did wheat trick us into all this?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Think about it? It used to be just a wild
grass competing with other plants. Then along came humans, cultivating it,
weeding out its rivals, spreading it all over.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So instead of as domesticating wheat, it kind of domesticated.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Us exactly from wheat's perspective. It hit the jackpot, got
humans to provide the perfect growing conditions guaranteed its survival.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And for humans this shift had huge consequences, both good
and bad.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
The good's pretty obvious, right, more stable food supply settling
in one play is developing complex societies.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Sure, But there were downsides too. Agriculture is a lot
more work than foraging, right. Hunter gatherers could find food
in a few hours. Farmers, though, they had to toil
endlessly clearing land, planting, weeding, harvesting. Hard work it was,
and their diets became less diverse, relying on just a
few staple crops, so more vulnerable to famine.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Ah, So a trade off stability versus variety precisely.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And then with agriculture came social hierarchies. Some people accumulated
more land, more resources than others. We also see more
violence and conflict, fights over land, water, all those resources.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
So not quite the peaceful image of early farmers living
in harmony with nature, not quite.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And as Harari points out, once we had invested so
much in agriculture, there was no turning back. More people
meant more mouths to feed. All those possessions made it
impossible to just go back to being nomadic.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
We were trapped by our own success.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Kind of Yeah, the trap had snap shut, and to
manage these bigger, more complex societies, humans had to rely
even more on those imagined realities we talked about earlier.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Fascinating. So even though agriculture had downsides, it paved the
way for everything that came after.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Absolutely, the agricultural revolution was a pivotal point. Cities, empires,
the world we live in today, it all has roots.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
In agriculture, so much dimmed from it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Right. But of course it came with new challenges and
complexities too.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Which I'm sure HIRARII dives into.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh he does. To really get his point, we need
to look at exactly how the agricultural revolution changed human societies,
how it reshaped our relationship with nature.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Harari argues that these larger societies functioned because of what
he calls imagined.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Orders, imagined orders. What are those?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Remember? Imagined realities? Yeah, nations, religions, legal systems, those are
all examples of imagined orders too. There are sets of rules, hierarchies,
beliefs that we collectively agree to follow, not based on
any natural law really.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
But on shared stallies and myths. Exactly, a social contract
we all agree to, even if it's not written down exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And these imagined orders, they're essential for keeping things stable,
for cooperation in large societies.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I can see that.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Otherwise it would be chaos, right, millions of people couldn't
coordinate their actions without some kind of shared framework.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
But these imagined orders, they're not always fair.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Right, Unfortunately not. Harari makes that very clear. Imagined orders
can lead to inequality, discrimination, oppression. He says, there's no
truly just system. Every imagined order benefits some groups more
than others.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Are there any examples of that throughout history?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Tons of examples. Think about gender roles for centuries. Patriarchy,
the idea that men are better than women has been
a dominant imagined order.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
It's used to justify so much unequal pay, restricting women's freedoms.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Exactly, and it has no basis in science. There's no
proof that women are less capable. It's purely a social construct,
an imagine order to keep power imbalances.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So how do theseagin orders even come about? Who gets
to make the rules everyone else has to follow.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It's complicated, but it usually involves power, persuasion, tradition, people
and authority, kings, priests, emperors. They benefit from keeping the
status quo, and they use tools to reinforce it, religion, laws, education.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
But these imagined orders are challenged sometimes, right, yeah, and
then things change.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Of course, history is full of examples. The abolition of slavery,
women's suffrage, the civil rights movement. They all challenge the
power structures and pushed society forward.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
It's a good reminder that these imagined orders, however powerful,
they can be changed. We can choose to change them exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And that's a key takeaway from Harari's book. History isn't fixed.
We have the power to shape our own future.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But navigating all these systems, these imagined orders, it's tough.
What does Harari suggest we do?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
He says it's all about critical thinking, questioning our assumptions,
examining the stories we've been told, look.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Deeper and see the power namics.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
At play, right, Like understanding the code of the system,
so we can make better choices, and this is especially
important now with technology changing everything so fast.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Speaking of technology, Harari talks about how money unified humankind.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, money's another fascinating example of an imagined order that
shaped history. It's basically a system of trust. We all
believe that these pieces of paper or digital tokens have value,
and that belief has allowed for trade and exchange on
a massive scale.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So money's kind of like the oil that keeps the
global economy running in a way.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yes, it makes trade easier, encourages specialization, creates a world
where people from different cultures can cooperate economically.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
But it has downsides too.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Of course, Harari criticizes how money can reduce everything to
its economic value.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
He argues that it can erode traditional values. It can
lead to exploitation of people and the environment.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So, like a lot of things Hahirari talks about, it's
a double.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Edged sort exactly, which brings us to another turning point,
the scientific revolution. But before how are we get into that? Yeah,
let's pause and think about what we've covered so far,
The cognitalive revolution, the agricultural revolution, imagined realities, the unifying
power of money.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
It is amazing how it all ties together, right, Yeah,
like it's one big, interconnected story.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It is, and it shows how good Harari is at
bringing together huge amounts of information and making it engaging,
making it thought provoking.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And it makes you realize that history isn't just dates
and names. It's about us. It's about what it means
to be human.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Exactly, and that story still being written. The choices we
make today, they're shaping the future. But to make good choices,
we need to understand the forces that got us here,
and that's what Harari helps us do.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
And that brings us to the scientific Revolution. Yeah, and
what Harari has to say about the future of humankind
that's next.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So the scientific Revolution, it really changed how we see
the world in our place in it.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, Harari argues. It was more than just new discoveries, right,
like a whole new way of thinking about knowledge.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Exactly before knowledge came from religion or philosophy, they claimed
to have all the answers, But the scientific Revolution was different,
different how it embraced the idea that we always have
more to learn, that what we know now could change
with new evidence.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
So moving away from dogma and towards observation and experimentation exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
And a few things drove this shift, like rediscovering ancient
Greek texts, inventing the printing press, oh yeah, and the
rise of merchants who wanted to invest in exploration and
new ideas.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
It sounds like a perfect storm for an intellectual revolution.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
It was. And one key thing about the scientific revolution
scientists became okay with saying I don't know interesting. They
weren't satisfied with old wisdom or what authority figures told them.
They wanted to test ideas for themselves, see how things
worked in the real.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
World, totally different from how knowledge was pursued before.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
It was a radical change, and this new approach led
to so many discoveries. It changed how we understood everything
from the human body to the entire universe. Wow, we
see new theories in astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, all based
on observation, experiments, and math.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And those discoveries didn't just stay in the lab right
They affected society too.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Absolutely. The scientific revolution led to new technologies that changed
how we live, work, and interact with the world. Like
think about the steam engine, the telegraph, the telephone, all
made possible because of those scientific breakthroughs.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But the scientific revolution wasn't all sunshine and roses, was it.
Harari talks about a darker side too.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
He does. He points out the link between science, empire,
and capitalism.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Oh, a lot of scientific discoveries were fueled by empires
wanting to.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Expand, so they needed things like better maps and clocks,
more advanced tech to explore and conquer new lands.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, exactly, and sadly that often led to exploiting and
oppressing native people. Harari doesn't shy away from that, right,
He says, we need to see the whole pature of
the scientific revolution, both the good and the bad.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
That's a good point. Even good intentions can have negative consequences,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
And that brings us to the Industrial Revolution, which, in
Harari's view, comes directly from the scientific revolution. The scientific
discoveries paved the way for the tech that fueled the
Industrial revolution. Factories popped up, mass production started, and cities.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Grew a complete transformation.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
It was people moved from rural areas to urban centers
looking for jobs.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That created new challenges and social structures.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
It did, and as production ramped up, so did the
need to sell all those goods. That's where consumerism comes in.
Interesting new marketing tactics emerged. We started to believe that
happiness meant having more stuff. Sounds familiar right.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
In many ways. The industrial revolutions set the stage for
the world we live in today, with.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Its focus on economic growth and material possessions. But are
we really happier?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
That's the big question, isn't it. Hurrari points out that
despite all our material progress, we don't seem to be
any happier than our ancestors.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
So bring thought. So what now? What about the future
of humankind?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Harari thinks we're on the brink of huge changes, driven
by tech that blurs the lines between humans and machines.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
This is where things start to sound like science fiction.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I know, but these technologies are being developed now, genetic engineering,
artificial intelligence, brain, computer interfaces. They could completely redefine what
it means to be human.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's both thrilling and a little scary to think about.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It is, and Harari doesn't try to give us all
the answers. He just lays out the challenges and opportunities
and encourages us to have serious conversations about the future
we want to build.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So we've gone from the very beginning of humanity to
the future of intelligent design. It's been quite a journey.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It has. We've explored those big questions, who are we,
where do we come from? Where are we going?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And it's all thanks to Harari's ability to break down
complex ideas and connect different fields of knowledge. He leaves
us with a lot to ponder he does.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
His book isn't just a history lesson. It's a call to.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Action, a challenge to use what we know about the
past to build a better future exactly. That's a powerful
message something we should all remember as we face the
challenges of the twenty first century.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I agree the future isn't set in stone. We have
the power to shape it, but we need to understand
how we got here, and that's what Sapiens helps us do.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Well. That brings our deep dive into Sapiens, A Brief
History of Humankind to a close. We hope you enjoyed
this journey and that it's made you curious to explore
more about humanity's past, present, and future. Thanks for listening
to bookcast Bestsellers in Minutes