July 16, 2025 • 45 mins
James Robbins is an international keynote speaker and leadership expert, known for helping organizations create high-performing cultures. He is the author of Nine Minutes on Monday and the upcoming book The Call to Climb (Wiley, August 2025), a transformational fable set in the Andes that guides readers to reconnect with purpose and live more intentionally. With over 20 years of experience, James has spoken to audiences across Fortune 500 companies and global organizations. www.jamesrobbins.com
www.iwillclimb.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Boundlish Authenticity podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
James Robbins is an international keynote speaker and leadership expert
known for helping organizations create high performing cultures. He is
the author of Nine Minutes on Monday and the upcoming
book The Call to Climb Wiley, releasing in August twenty
twenty five, a transformational fable set in the Andes that
guides readers to reconnect with purpose and live more intentionally.
(00:28):
With over twenty years of experience, James has spoken to
audiences across Fortune five hundred companies and global organizations.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
James, how's it going going good? So glad to be here. Thanks?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, awesome, Thanks for being on with me. So my
first question, like I said, I don't have any questions
for you, but I'm gonna wing it. What are the
most significant experiences that put you on the path that
you're on now?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
One of the most I would say, I would say
they were being in college, not knowing what I wanted
to do and wanting to take some time off, but
everybody telling you you can't do that, and even my
parents at the time, you can't do that. If you
do that, we're going to stop paying for college. But
(01:23):
still feeling inside of me like I need to get
out of here, and I'd left and took some friends
with me. We went down to South Pacific and spent
like six months traveling around. I mean, this is like
nineteen late nineteen eighties, nineteen ninety kind of time. So
it was definitely a different time, but it was getting
(01:44):
away from everything to then think clearly what I want
to do with my life. And I would say that
would be one significant moment. You know, I'm an older guy,
so I got several others, but let's start with that one.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Fair enough, you're talking late eighties. I probably wasn't even
like two yet.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
So yeah, different world traveling then was uh, I mean
you had to take there's no bank cards, right like,
there was no you didn't take your card, dude, Well
there was bank cards.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Shouldn't say that there wasn't.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
But back then you went and got travelers shacks, American
Express travelers shacks. It was like carrying cash with you.
It's so dangerous when you think about it now. And yeah,
wherever you went felt like a long ways from home
because you could only write a letter or phone call.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, So I mean we're talking about stuff deck the
kids of this day and Angel would be like what
a travelers check. But I mean, I guess no matter
what generation you're from, you're likely to have had a
moment where some things happened and you realize you had
(02:59):
to find yourself? Am I correct? Containing So.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yeah, absolutely, Well, I think that's the myth right that
we have to find ourselves. But the reality is you
don't need to find anything. You need to decide who
you're going to be. And I guess finding yourself is
more about getting rid of all the other voices and
noises and societal expectations of your life and answering the
(03:27):
question if I could be completely honest with no judgment
and nobody cared about what I would do, what would
I do? And when we can strip that out of
way and then ask ourselves that question and not be
afraid of the answer, just don't judge it.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And then what is it? What is it that you
want to do?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So in your experience, what are the most common barriers
you would say that people have to finding that inner voice,
and you know, just asking that question, what do I
want to do?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
People are just afraid of the answer.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
To be honest, they're afraid to really ask themselves that
question because they I think, deep down inside, right, I
believe all of us have a soul, whether you want
to call it soul, psyche, inner life. We all have
an inner life, a soul that knows us better than
we do, and it knows the right path for us.
(04:21):
And the thing that's, honestly, the universal thing, is we're
just afraid. We're afraid to walk our own path because
what does that mean in the context of my tribe.
And at the end of the day, we have all
been programmed by society, by parents to fit in. And
(04:42):
there's a part of that. Of course, that's part of
success in your early life when you don't have the
strength of ego strength. But as you get older, right,
that's where people hit those midlife crises where they start
to think, wait, what am I doing with my life?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Is this what I want to do with my life?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And it's sort of, as doctor James calls it, a
collision of selves, right, kind of the self that you've
always known and then all of a sudden this other
self that shows up on the scene that says, hey,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Think we're actually really happy here.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
And whether it's in our job, our career, our relationship,
or you know, one of these big things in life,
and people are afraid to have that conversation with their soul.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Do you think this is a skill that could be
taught in schools? Well, good question. I think that yes,
I think it can be taught because.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
As people learn about themselves, right, so as the ancients
were right about know thyself, but as people learn why
they are the way they are, and then once they
start to see, oh, this is the way, this is
why I think like this, But what do I want
to do with my life? Like what do I want
(05:57):
to do? And who do I want to be? And
once we answer those two questions, right, once we can
set that sort of north star and create Now we
have a compass. So now when that inner programming wants
us to people please, wants us to not hold a
boundary and you know, punishes us with that anxiety to
(06:19):
cave or to fit in or to compromise, we can
recognize that and then we can say, oh, I know
what this is, but here's my compass, and so this
is the decision I need to make. So yes, I
think you could teach that in the later grades. But
I mean peer pressure in the tribe is it's never
stronger than when we're in middle school in high school.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So, having said that, do you think that any other forces,
you know, people claim childhood trauma is a factor. Do
you think things like that really factoring or do you
think people are just generally making up self justifications so
that they don't have to live in a bigger experience
(07:06):
than what they ultimately already have.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Well, people who have traumas, especially when they're young, of course,
those are very powerful forces that live within and it's
a little bit like it's almost like it's almost like
living in a haunted house at times, where that energy
can rise up and take over and all of a
sudden somebody lashes out and then later they're like, I.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Can't believe I did that, you know, like who was that?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So those energies are all inside of us, and wounds,
you know, everyone has them, but some of them, you know,
some went through even more trauma than others. So it's
not that those things are not real. They are. And
a lot of the things that happened to us when
we were younger, it's not our fault, right, Like some
of that early hardwiring that's not our fault, but once
(08:01):
we learn about it, it becomes our responsibility. So you
can just claim your trauma all your life and as
the reason why you can't do X, Y and Z.
But for every person who says that, I can find
another person who has a similar trauma, but they figured out, like,
I am not going to let this run my life.
(08:22):
Because at the end of the day, that's what we're
talking about, is who's in charge of your life? And
if it's you, right, if you're going to take charge
of your life, then okay, well what's that going to
look like? And I'm going to live an intentional life
because if you think about it, most of our life
we just run on autopilot. And when we're on autopilot,
(08:43):
all those programs they're the ones running the show, right,
like they're driving the car at that point. But when
we step forward and be like, okay, no, I might
feel this, but I am doing this now, we're taking charge.
But if you compare, like I was reading, how the
brain can process like eleven million bits of information a
(09:08):
second eleven million, but your conscious mind can only process
about forty or fifty bits. So this is one of
the ways that subconscious I don't say bullies us attimes
because that would be a negative term because it's all protective, right,
it's just trying to protect you. But one of the
(09:28):
tools that the subconscious uses is selective attention, like it
will show you in a sense, it almost controls what
you're going to see, which is why. Also when you
are trying to achieve a goal, or you want to
go on a trip to Hawaii, your subconscious also now
just opens up that portal and now you're starting to
(09:48):
see everything from Hawaii right come in and just how
the brain works. So it also works in a way
to protect you that you don't even know that it's happening.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And what you are not aware.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Of rules you, right, Like what you are not aware
of is your master until you know that it's mastering you,
and now I can take over and live more intentionally.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I think this is very true. If people would admit
to themselves that they're not as smart as they think
they are, and that we have a mechanism that's actually
doing ninety five percent of everything for us on autopilot,
then we could begin to make a change from that position.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
But I.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Struggle myself trying to get people to understand that information
and just really, you know, you're stupid. We're all stupid.
If you think about how the brain looks when it's
connected to all the nerve endings and stuff, you take
away all the flesh and everything just kind of looks
like a big jelly rolled, fraggle looking thing. And that's
what we are, and it's got information in it. How
(11:06):
do you override that? And with that comes the question
what does living more intentionally mean?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Living more intentionally is first getting clear about what do
you want? And a lot of people can answer that question.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You know, hey, what do you want? What do you mean?
What do I want? What do you want?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Then sometimes they'll say, well, what am I allowed to want?
You know, what can I want? Well, no, what do
you want?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
What do you want?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
In life? What do you want?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And that's the first thing for them to begin to
get clear on that and to help it. You know,
you can narrow that down to you know, as a father,
So for me, I have adult children, Well, what do
I want? What do I want in the relationship I
have with my children?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Well?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
What do I believe about raising adult children? Why do
I believe that? Is that my belief? Or is that
the did did my church tell me that? Or do
my parents say?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Like? What do I believe?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And what do I want that relationship to be? So
it starts, you know, if you want to get granular,
it starts there. But the second piece to that is,
well who am I going to be? Right like as
a person, who am I going to be? And once
you get clear on those two things right now, we
can start to move in that direction. So what happens
(12:27):
is a lot of people think, well, I want to
find you know, I want to live a purposeful life. Well,
of course you do, and then they go into this
I get a search for my purpose. But really this
is my belief. Your purpose is to bring the most
authentic and honest version of you to this world.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And it's it's not an easy task.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Your purpose is not found in building schools in some
developing country, though you might go do that. That might
be one of your worthy pursuits in the course of
your lifetime.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
But your purpose here is is to bring that full
expression of you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
It's like every single person has a unique song to play,
and no one plays anyone else's song. And if you
don't play it, the world doesn't get to hear it.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right, So do you so start by getting clear?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Oh sorry to cut you off. So you're saying, start
by getting clear on that.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I agree?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And do you think that commonly people fall into the
purpose trap, thinking that they must have this overarching, divine
purpose and then they get so scared that they just
don't do anything at all or they don't know what
to do.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And you know, there's a lot of stuff online about
helping you find your purpose, and I've even heard guys
say like, oh, I can help you find it in
two minutes, and it's used this formula and it sounds
more like a marketing slogan like I helped you know,
such and such people solve this problem.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So to me, that's that's just missing it. That that
doesn't mean that that's not great.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And that's what I call a worthy pursuit, right, Like
you might have a worthy pursuit at some point in
your life that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Changes later on.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It's a little bit like I use this example in
the book that's coming out, The Call to Climb, where
it's a story about a woman who was a professional speaker,
motivational speaker, and you would speak all the time and
she loved it. She was changing lives, and she was like,
this is my purpose, this is what I was meant
to do. So we'll say things like that. Well, then
(14:31):
you know, something happened and she had to get a
surgery on her throat and there was basically an accident
and she lost her voice and couldn't speak anymore. So
falls into this depression because while my purpose has been
taken away from me, but not realizing that. No, her
purpose wasn't standing on stage, that was just the vehicle
(14:53):
she was using. Her purpose is to bring that full
expression of her and so she can so so even
though that's tragic what happened, she can find other vehicles
to spread that message, writing or whatever it might be.
And as she began to do that, right coach, then
(15:14):
it came back to her again like, ah, this is
I was like, this is what I meant to do.
So it's separating sometimes your purpose from the worthy pursuit,
because otherwise, if you're trying to find your purpose, like
what's that job, what's that career, that's so much pressure
because maybe you will go build schools in a developing country,
(15:37):
and after two years of that, maybe you'll go you
know what I'm done with this. I want to do
something else. And I've worked in the not for profit
space before, where I started to feel unhappy, and then
I felt guilty because I'm like, wait a minute, but
this is my purpose, Like I'm this is my calling.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I can't leave this. And it was from that thinking.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, well, it seems to shock people sometimes when I
tell them that you can have multiple purposes in life.
I had one client she's refusing to believe that she
could be anything other than a mother to her children
as a purpose, and it was such a mind blowing
(16:22):
experience for me because I felt like I had to
wrestle her to the ground to get her to do
anything with her children. She got the idea in her
head from online, like you said that she had to
have this crazy experience in order to feel purposeful. Yeah,
but why don't you feel good with your children? This
(16:42):
is very strange.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
We had to go down that road of figuring out
why that was, and it just wasn't It just was
unpleasant to watch. I say that story because there there
is a really large degree to which many people are
(17:03):
struggling right now to find who they are and where
they want to be. And I also remember reading about
I think his name is Arnold Lazarus in the psychology class,
and he was asking people what t want. But when
(17:25):
he asked that question, they would have like an existential crisis.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, it is difficult for people.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Your example of the mother is is just a great
example where people get locked into all is my purpose?
But the reality is you know again as I see it,
of course that's one of the roles she plays. Her
purpose is to bring herself fully to that role. That's
the purpose. But one day her kids will move out
(17:55):
of the house, and her purpose continues to roll into
other things because it's it's her. Another way to look
at it is like, so back to the soul. The
soul is like a seed of the oak tree. Right,
what's the oak tree's purpose? It's just to become the
oak tree. Now as an oak tree, it's going to
(18:15):
do a lot of things, right, it's going to provide shade,
it's going to provide a home for animals, it's going
to stop erosion. So it does things, but it only
does things because of who it has become.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And the focus really needs to be on who am
I meant to be in this world? And who do.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I want to be right, and in terms of then
what we do, yeah, life, life leaves breadcrumbs for us, right,
that we can narrow that down. But honestly, what's exciting
to me is that there's probably a thousand things that
you can do that are purposeful and it would be
an amazing way for you to express your soul in
this world. And in fact, life's not long enough to
(18:56):
do them all. And I think that's a beautiful thing.
That's the abundance of life.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Right, So can you sort of unpack the idea of
longing and discontent and how those things can push you forward?
I do think that I do think that longing and
discontent are part of life. And I know some people
(19:26):
are going to.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Disagree on this for sure, that you just always should
find this contented place. But for me, for me, part
of my growth, the catalyst is always discontent. The catalyst
is always this could be better. I want to improve this,
I want to do this. And so as soon as
(19:47):
I say something like that, I've now created a gap.
Of course, we know from just psychology that that creates motivation.
Other people will look at that and say, oh, well,
if you want something, then that's the root of all
sufferings when you when you have desires, and I get that,
I think, I think when I go on vacation, I
(20:08):
want to have no desires. But for the rest of
life for me, I mean, I think we're born to
walk uphill. We're born to We're born to think. I
want to grow. And there's there's a fine balance, of course,
to be okay with yourself, but not be okay where
you are, and if you can separate those two, like
(20:30):
I can be okay with myself and my worth and
my value. But am I happy where I am in
this moment right here? Am I happy with the progress here?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I want to be further ahead. I don't think that's
a bad thing at all. Where I think it's unhealthy
is when you fuse together your worth and.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Where you're at.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So a lot of people say things like, hey, you're
you're totally fine wherever you are, and I think, well,
that's half true. You are totally fine as a person,
You're worth your value regardless of what you're doing in life, but.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You may not be fine where you are, and.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Your soul lets you know that with those moments of hey,
there's something more for us there's something bigger for us,
and I think I think a healthy disappointment comes from
the soul to say we were meant for more.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, I agree with you. What else can I say?
Do you agree with the idea? Was it Carol Dweck?
Did I get that name right? With the idea of
fixed mindset versus growth oriented and people are divided into categories.
You think that's true.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I like Carol Dweck's work, but there's but I have.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I do have one problem with the fixed mindset growth
mindset is that it seems like a fixed mindset in itself,
and that you're this or you're that. So to me, actually,
I write about this in the upcoming book, but I
talk about the ego's mindset and the soul's mindset. The
soul's mindset is about growth and expansion and doesn't care
what people think because it's really just trying to grow.
(22:19):
Or the ego is like protect, protect, protect, But for me,
you know, like I, if I'm honest, I am both
of those. It depends what I'm doing. And I'll give
you a quick example. I remember last year I heard
about a storytelling competition in my city that happens and
(22:40):
so it's like an open mic night. You go in,
you put your name in the hat, and they draw out,
you know, ten names, and if your name gets drawn,
you go and you tell a story for five minutes
and you get judged by a panel. Anyways, I'd never
seen this before, never heard about it, but I speak
for a living and I thought, all, this would be
a good challenge, right, like I should go in that.
That's that growth mindset or that soul mindset. But there
(23:04):
was another part of me that's like, well, I mean,
like don't enter your first night, like go and kind
of see how it is and just watch first. Right,
that's the ego, that's the protective part, like don't fail.
It's basically what it's saying, don't fail. And I ended
up going and saying, no, I'm just going to do
it right growth mindset. So and what happens is I
(23:25):
went and I put my name in the hat and
I literally get picked first.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And I had no idea what to expect.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So I just went up told my story and in
the end and the end of the night, I ended
up getting sixth place. I was like wiped out in
a local storytelling competition and I was the most experienced
figer there for sure, so embarrassing if we're going to
go with the ego, but the soul would have a
very different mindset of that. The soul would be like, man,
(23:57):
that was awesome, Like you didn't even know what you're
getting into, Like it's so amazing that you trusted yourself
enough to be bold and just do that. That's fantastic,
whereas the other side of me was like, man, like,
that's embarrassing. All of that to say, I think people
have to choose to go into that growth mindset that
(24:21):
I don't know that that's it's certainly not natural for me,
but it doesn't mean I can't be there to be intentional.
So back to your question about Carol Dweck's work. The
thing I know, there's two things I don't like about it.
One is that it sort of sets itself up as
almost a fixed mindset, and the other one is a
(24:42):
lot of her research. And you correct me if I'm
wrong anyone who's listening, But a lot of her research
was done on adolescents, and that's a different time of
life than when you're in your forties and fifties, and
so I think obviously it's still a powerful work and
(25:04):
it serves me right, I've benefited from her research.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
But those would be the two things I don't like.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Right. Well, I laughed when you said that, because I
agree with what you're saying. It just I have the
same grievances with it. But you know, I think two,
when you're reading these self development books, you really have
to take stuff with a pinch of salt and try
(25:34):
to fact check some of the things that are being said.
Otherwise you don't always read the right benefits from it.
I'm not sure if you agree with that or not,
but I amn't really honestly found too many of the
popular books in that genre to be effective for much.
It gave me a lot of brain candy. I had
(25:56):
a great time reading it. I felt like I was
learning something, but you know, didn't do much for me
in the way of actually how do I grow?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You know, I have a similar experience to that, you know,
picking up a book reading it like, ah, that's what
that's the reason I'm not further along. I'm not doing
this or all affirmations but stated in question form, Oh yeah,
that's the that's the secret. So we're always I think
people generally are just looking for the secret, like what's
the secret, what's the way? Because life's not easy. And
(26:29):
one challenge in the world of self help.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Is that you know a.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Lot of people who will write self help books, they
are writing about, of course, their experience and you know,
hey that this helped them.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And so what some people can.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Do is they can they can erroneously assign causality, like, oh,
the reason I'm successful is because I started doing these
affirmations and maybe that is or maybe it wasn't, you know,
So to your point for people to be a little
bit more critical as they read stuff and like get
(27:13):
I get the spiritual side, of course, but I'm also
like half my father who was very pragmatic in science,
and so you know, someone wants to talk to me
about manifestation. Okay, my mother's half of me is all in,
but my father's half is like, well, wait a minute,
like let's what do you mean, Like how does that work?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Like you got to explain that better, can't just tell
me that.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So I think it is good to have a critical
mind to on some of these aspects. And the other
thing is just because it worked for someone doesn't mean
it's going to work for you. And I've seen people
who are like, hey, don't grind, like just just surrender
and watch things come to you.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And then this is what I did, and they came
to me. And then I'll hear another guy that's like.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Hey, get off your rear, get off the couch and
quit cry and grind and work fourteen hours and that
worked for them. So there's just a whole lot of
things that work. What I do think the self help
industry is not honest about is.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I think changing your life.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Is infinitely more difficult than anyone wants to admit, at
least in the self help world. And I think when
you venture into working on yourself, especially as you start
to uncover these programs, and you know, let's say you
struggle with people pleasing okay, Well, that's just a habit,
that's just a coping mechanism you acquired along the way,
(28:43):
and you know that's probably going to be with you
your entire life. And not saying that you won't change it,
that you won't get better at it, what I'm saying
is that the sensitivity and so this is where it
comes into living intentional life. So the more intentional I
am to not let my people pleasing dictate my path,
(29:08):
the stronger I'll be. But that people pleasing nature, at
least in my life, is always at is always outside
the door. It just doesn't knock as loud anymore, but
it's still outside the door. And that might sound like
really discouraging, but I think I think that's more accurate.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I've heard some people say, oh, like, you know, come
do this.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
A subconscious you know, hypnosis technique, and then people change
and they never struggle again. I hope that's true. It's
never been true for me. I've never just magically been
free from some of my limiting beliefs. Always had to
(29:53):
be vigilant, right.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Well, you know, I'm a hymnotherapist, so I can tell
you for sure it's not magic. It does that happened
like that. I think that's a really bad misconception that's
pushed on the Internet, and a lot of people just
want to sound like they have magical powers to try
to sell you stuff. But you actually have to do
(30:16):
a lot of work inside of that that that framework
in order to reach the belief in the first place,
let alone to get a person to change their relationship
to that belief, because it's about changing your relationship to it.
It's not that it just magically goes away. So yeah,
for sure, it's a struggle and I have to be
(30:38):
honest about that for people that maybe they are thinking
about doing some kind of course, I don't know with
you or you know, myself or anybody else. You ask questions,
find out exactly what the process is like, because anybody
that's earnest is going to say exactly what you've said.
(30:58):
You know, changing your life is hard work. And I
always go back to the wisdom of my grandfather. I
was fortunate to have him in my life up until
I was seventeen years old. And you're talking about a
guy that was born in the early nineteen hundreds, so
he didn't have anything. His first job was selling newspapers
(31:21):
at like ten years old or something like that, you know.
And I remember I asked him one time when I
was about thirteen, how he got so good at everything
that he did, and he was, I just did it,
and you know, he was like one of my favorite
songs is Frank Sinatra. I did it my way. And
(31:42):
he just never listened to anything that anybody told him.
He never listened when anybody told him how to do anything.
He just did it his own way, and he wasn't
afraid to make mistakes. And you know, just to give
you some context, I still live in my family's home.
It's actually two houses that are right next to each
(32:06):
other on the beach in Barbados, you know, a place
that has statistically been plagued by poverty, essentially third world
stuff for its entire existence. It wasn't easy for a
black man to elevate himself in status in the early
(32:30):
nineteen hundreds and onward. You know what I'm saying. He
did it through art work. So I think that's the
only secret. You have to be willing to work hard.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
You know, this is a great point you bring up
about your grandfather, And thanks for sharing that, because it
makes me think about now. We are saturated and inundated
not only with information but with marketers, and part of
marketers strategy is basically to incite more pain to tell
you no, that's not the way to do it. Here's
(33:06):
why that's hard, because it's not the best way. You
got to do it this way. So when I think
about some of my earlier years in business, you're always
trying these different things. I got to build an email list.
Then someone comes along, I don't build an email list
like emails.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Dad, you got to do this? Oh yeah, I got
to do this.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
And so what I find is that there's all there's
even more reasons to doubt yourself today. Like think about
to our grandparents' day. You know, they had to go
sell something. Okay, maybe there was a book, or maybe
it was just some mentoring them telling them that how
they did it, but you had to.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Figure it out.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And again I'm all for learning and coaching and mentoring
and speeding up the process. But at the end of
the day, you know, as you know that well, even
from a learning perspective, like seventy percent of the learning
journey happens while we're doing it. There's the experience so
that you can process the the different instructions we've been
(34:04):
given and then we try them. Okay, that worked, or
that didn't quite work, or maybe I got to say
this differently. And this goes, you know, back to the
concept in the book to call the climb, which is really, yeah,
at some point you got to climb, like you got
to get on the mountain, because it's in the struggle, right,
it's in the struggle. It's in the headwind that that
(34:26):
really shapes us, you know, and hopefully for the better.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, it's true. When I first started this over a
decade ago, I was doing training with Mary Morrissey. I'm
sure you're familiar with her work. No, No, she's like
one of the old school people. You had, Mary Morrissey.
It's that guy that died Wayne Dyer. There's another guy
(34:55):
that was Jack Bolandet older like transferm national coaching and
leadership type stuff, you know, the same narrative. And she
used to say all the time, baby steps will take
you right up the site of Mount Everest. And I
was like, well, that seems like a ridiculous claim, but
in a way it makes sense, you know, because you're
not really going to, like you said, get there unless
(35:15):
you claim right.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
You don't have a choice. But with that, talk to
me a little bit more about the inspiration to write
your book.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
The version to write the book.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
So what happened was somewhere in my mid thirties when
I was not feeling happy and excited about what I
was doing. So actually I was working for a church
in Christian ministry, which was not something I ever thought
I would do, but you know, life's funny and throws
a curveball at you. So when I came out of college,
(35:50):
I started doing that and I enjoyed the work. Initially.
I love working with people, helping people. And over time
though it wasn't necessarily the ministry, it was the organization
I was working for began to change how they did stuff,
and it just started to like not feel good, didn't
feel authentic what we were doing. I started to feel
(36:12):
like I was in a sales organization. And it was
during that time that I started to feel really depressed,
and I then, of course felt really guilty that I
would be depressed. It was just all this stuff I
didn't know how to process, and it sort of just
went through this time of burnout and got really sick,
and even the doctor said, hey, there's nothing wrong with you,
(36:34):
maybe you just have depression, and you know, for me,
I was like, no, I couldn't, that's impossible. But that
was I think the initial summons of the soul to
sit down and get honest, but I didn't.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I just ignored it. I ignored that appointment.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
It just kept moving on, and it wasn't until so
during that time though, I was introduced to the work
of James. So have you ever read anything by doctor
James Hollis. He's a Youngian psychoanalyst. Have you ever read
any of his stuff?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I don't think I've read it.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
No, I would encourage you to pick it up because
he is amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
He writes the stuff that's really deep.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Of course he's ungi and so it's he talks about
the soul. But he he was the one that had
the concept about the soul summons you for an appointment
at some point, and most people avoid the appointment.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So that stuck with me, and.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Maybe about ten years ago I had this idea, you know,
wouldn't it be interesting to write a book about someone
who was summoned to have a conversation with their soul?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And but it takes place on a mountain.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
So that's where the that's where the genesis of the
book came, the idea. It really came out of my
own story and ignoring the ignoring in a sense, the
call to climb right, ignoring the sit down with my
soul to go, hey, what do you what do you
actually want?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And who do you want to be?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
And I didn't have those conversations, I put them off
at least a decade, right.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Okay, So I mean, what is what is it that
you are really trying to deeply express by putting this
book out there for people.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I want people to realize that often the life they're
living is not the one that I'll say this, that
often the life they're living, it's not really their life.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
They're living a collection of a lot of other things.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And if you really want to, if we want to
use the word individuate, if you really want to, if
you really want to live an authentic life, then it's
going to take some work.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
It's going to take some separation from the tribe. It's
going to take.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Really you figuring out, hey, what do I want and
then having the courage to bring your full self to
the world. And I would say I'm still working on that.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Even this book is so different than my last book
is very corporate leadership. You know, it's it's it's done well,
but it's very like, here's how to be a better leader.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
This book all of a sudden comes in.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
We actually had to redesign our website, which we're still
doing because we're like, well, how do how do these
two messages fit. They're so different and there's but this,
this latest book is is a more honest version of
what I would produce than the first one. Not that
the first one's wrong or bad, it's just okay, it's
for work. But even that it's been okay, Well, do
(39:45):
you know, do I go and make a YouTube video
and LinkedIn video about this? Like how is that going
to be perceived?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Like?
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I will still have those questions, which is, let's just
boil down, like, well, actually, who cares? Who cares how
that's perceived? Is this what you want to say? Is
this message you want to get out? Well, yes it is, okay,
then get it out right. So again, easier said than done.
But so to me, that's the beauty of life. It's
this lifelong journey. But you know, back to doctor Hollis
(40:12):
who has a great quote, when the path is right,
the energy is there, and you need that energy right
if you're going to take on this work in whatever
you're doing.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
So on the flip side of that, let's assume somebody
who has achieved most, if not all, of everything that
they want and they pick up your book. What would
they take away from it?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
If they had achieved almost everything they want. That's a
great question. I would think if they picked up the book, then.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
They would probably be able to look and go, oh, yeah,
that's what I did, that was my path.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I had those moments.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I think there's there's also value in validating someone's someone's
path and someone's experience. But I that would be my
best answer for you.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You know, I'm not here to say like, no, everyone's
got to do it this way or my way. Of
course not.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Man, if you've made it through life and you can
just think, well, I did everything I did and oh, fantastic,
good for you.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Right, Well, and what's next? Right, what's the next mountain
you're gonna climb?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Like, I don't want to go, and I don't want to.
I don't want to say I don't want to retire.
I don't want to be the person that says that.
But do I want to just do nothing?
Speaker 4 (41:32):
No?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I think I would always no, I wouldn't want to
just do nothing. I would always have to be doing something.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, just as a selling point. One more question, what
is your favorite chapter if you have one.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
I have a couple of favorite chapters, and honestly, writing
the book was it was an emotional experience for me.
There were more than a few times I'm in this
cafe and I'm writing, this surge of emotion would come
up and I'm like whiteing tears from my eyes while
I'm writing this book.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
So I think one of them, though, is there's a
scene where.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
The main character, Riley gets you know, Riley's been called
to climb this mountain. Obviously there's some mysticism to it,
because mountains done typically I actually call you to climb,
so but there's this mystical place. So anyways, they get
up high on the mountain and Riley starts to be
excited about climbing further, and then this big snowstorm hits
(42:34):
and it just doesn't let up, and it's it's a
chapter talking about energy and carrying stuff that you don't
need to be carrying. And so what happens is Riley
is carrying grudges, resentments people that they've not forgiven, and
the mountain is not letting them climb further until they
let everything go and really to give them selves that
(42:56):
gift of forgiving. And so there's a to me, I
think there's a powerful scene there where Riley wrestles. Wrestles
fights with like why would I forgive this guy, you know,
after what he did, and eventually gets to the point
where they realize, oh, this is I'm only hurting myself
and I've I've got a gift myself by letting this
(43:19):
go and moving on with my life. And then you know,
so that's that's that's a favorite story for me, and uh, yeah,
I think I'll go with that.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Fantastic James, it was good to meet you. Thanks for
being on the Boneless Authenticity Podcast. Can you tell everyone
where they can find you?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, thank you, you can. My main website is James
Robbins dot com. That's two b's. But if you want
to hear more about the book, go to its website,
which is I Will Climb dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I Will Climb dot com. It comes out August.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Fifth, but if you pre order it you get some
cool bone So yeah, go to I Will Climb dot com.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And hey, come find me on LinkedIn. Love to Connect.
Tell me that you heard this on Jahan's show. Great conversation, James,
thanks again, Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
You're listening to the Boundless Authenticity podcast, where we discuss
everything related to the evolution of human consciousness.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
At the very.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Leasty, you need to understand that the United States builds bunkers,
which are basical cities on your ground every three months.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Basically into your self conscious is your love and insolution,
your creativity.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
And imagination, unshamed from conscious saison and little bit you're.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
All under your life for the soul. If I have
a consciousness section, algy cultures of your right.
Speaker 5 (44:56):
We live in a multi dimensional reality, whether it comes
through editary information in the spiritual realms or the UFO
people experiences, or mainstreams and positive physics, and through natrem
science and now realizing that parallel dimensions probably exists, we're all.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Spiritual means we're all having these human experiences. We've heard
that phrase over and over and over, but what does
that really mean?
Speaker 5 (45:16):
And all of the questions of why do we have
these answers inside of ourselves. We're ultimately studying the nature
of what it is to be human, good and evil,
our psychology, how we're fitting our health. That's why I
love Bruce Lee's great quote all knowledge is ultimately self knowledge.
Boundlish Authenticity podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
James Robbins is an international keynote speaker and leadership expert
known for helping organizations create high performing cultures. He is
the author of Nine Minutes on Monday and the upcoming
book The Call to Climb Wiley, releasing in August twenty
twenty five, a transformational fable set in the Andes that
guides readers to reconnect with purpose and live more intentionally.
(00:28):
With over twenty years of experience, James has spoken to
audiences across Fortune five hundred companies and global organizations.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
James, how's it going going good? So glad to be here. Thanks?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, awesome, Thanks for being on with me. So my
first question, like I said, I don't have any questions
for you, but I'm gonna wing it. What are the
most significant experiences that put you on the path that
you're on now?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
One of the most I would say, I would say
they were being in college, not knowing what I wanted
to do and wanting to take some time off, but
everybody telling you you can't do that, and even my
parents at the time, you can't do that. If you
do that, we're going to stop paying for college. But
(01:23):
still feeling inside of me like I need to get
out of here, and I'd left and took some friends
with me. We went down to South Pacific and spent
like six months traveling around. I mean, this is like
nineteen late nineteen eighties, nineteen ninety kind of time. So
it was definitely a different time, but it was getting
(01:44):
away from everything to then think clearly what I want
to do with my life. And I would say that
would be one significant moment. You know, I'm an older guy,
so I got several others, but let's start with that one.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Fair enough, you're talking late eighties. I probably wasn't even
like two yet.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
So yeah, different world traveling then was uh, I mean
you had to take there's no bank cards, right like,
there was no you didn't take your card, dude, Well
there was bank cards.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Shouldn't say that there wasn't.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
But back then you went and got travelers shacks, American
Express travelers shacks. It was like carrying cash with you.
It's so dangerous when you think about it now. And yeah,
wherever you went felt like a long ways from home
because you could only write a letter or phone call.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, So I mean we're talking about stuff deck the
kids of this day and Angel would be like what
a travelers check. But I mean, I guess no matter
what generation you're from, you're likely to have had a
moment where some things happened and you realize you had
(02:59):
to find yourself? Am I correct? Containing So.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yeah, absolutely, Well, I think that's the myth right that
we have to find ourselves. But the reality is you
don't need to find anything. You need to decide who
you're going to be. And I guess finding yourself is
more about getting rid of all the other voices and
noises and societal expectations of your life and answering the
(03:27):
question if I could be completely honest with no judgment
and nobody cared about what I would do, what would
I do? And when we can strip that out of
way and then ask ourselves that question and not be
afraid of the answer, just don't judge it.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And then what is it? What is it that you
want to do?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So in your experience, what are the most common barriers
you would say that people have to finding that inner voice,
and you know, just asking that question, what do I
want to do?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
People are just afraid of the answer.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
To be honest, they're afraid to really ask themselves that
question because they I think, deep down inside, right, I
believe all of us have a soul, whether you want
to call it soul, psyche, inner life. We all have
an inner life, a soul that knows us better than
we do, and it knows the right path for us.
(04:21):
And the thing that's, honestly, the universal thing, is we're
just afraid. We're afraid to walk our own path because
what does that mean in the context of my tribe.
And at the end of the day, we have all
been programmed by society, by parents to fit in. And
(04:42):
there's a part of that. Of course, that's part of
success in your early life when you don't have the
strength of ego strength. But as you get older, right,
that's where people hit those midlife crises where they start
to think, wait, what am I doing with my life?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Is this what I want to do with my life?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And it's sort of, as doctor James calls it, a
collision of selves, right, kind of the self that you've
always known and then all of a sudden this other
self that shows up on the scene that says, hey,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Think we're actually really happy here.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
And whether it's in our job, our career, our relationship,
or you know, one of these big things in life,
and people are afraid to have that conversation with their soul.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Do you think this is a skill that could be
taught in schools? Well, good question. I think that yes,
I think it can be taught because.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
As people learn about themselves, right, so as the ancients
were right about know thyself, but as people learn why
they are the way they are, and then once they
start to see, oh, this is the way, this is
why I think like this, But what do I want
to do with my life? Like what do I want
(05:57):
to do? And who do I want to be? And
once we answer those two questions, right, once we can
set that sort of north star and create Now we
have a compass. So now when that inner programming wants
us to people please, wants us to not hold a
boundary and you know, punishes us with that anxiety to
(06:19):
cave or to fit in or to compromise, we can
recognize that and then we can say, oh, I know
what this is, but here's my compass, and so this
is the decision I need to make. So yes, I
think you could teach that in the later grades. But
I mean peer pressure in the tribe is it's never
stronger than when we're in middle school in high school.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So, having said that, do you think that any other forces,
you know, people claim childhood trauma is a factor. Do
you think things like that really factoring or do you
think people are just generally making up self justifications so
that they don't have to live in a bigger experience
(07:06):
than what they ultimately already have.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Well, people who have traumas, especially when they're young, of course,
those are very powerful forces that live within and it's
a little bit like it's almost like it's almost like
living in a haunted house at times, where that energy
can rise up and take over and all of a
sudden somebody lashes out and then later they're like, I.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Can't believe I did that, you know, like who was that?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So those energies are all inside of us, and wounds,
you know, everyone has them, but some of them, you know,
some went through even more trauma than others. So it's
not that those things are not real. They are. And
a lot of the things that happened to us when
we were younger, it's not our fault, right, Like some
of that early hardwiring that's not our fault, but once
(08:01):
we learn about it, it becomes our responsibility. So you
can just claim your trauma all your life and as
the reason why you can't do X, Y and Z.
But for every person who says that, I can find
another person who has a similar trauma, but they figured out, like,
I am not going to let this run my life.
(08:22):
Because at the end of the day, that's what we're
talking about, is who's in charge of your life? And
if it's you, right, if you're going to take charge
of your life, then okay, well what's that going to
look like? And I'm going to live an intentional life
because if you think about it, most of our life
we just run on autopilot. And when we're on autopilot,
(08:43):
all those programs they're the ones running the show, right,
like they're driving the car at that point. But when
we step forward and be like, okay, no, I might
feel this, but I am doing this now, we're taking charge.
But if you compare, like I was reading, how the
brain can process like eleven million bits of information a
(09:08):
second eleven million, but your conscious mind can only process
about forty or fifty bits. So this is one of
the ways that subconscious I don't say bullies us attimes
because that would be a negative term because it's all protective, right,
it's just trying to protect you. But one of the
(09:28):
tools that the subconscious uses is selective attention, like it
will show you in a sense, it almost controls what
you're going to see, which is why. Also when you
are trying to achieve a goal, or you want to
go on a trip to Hawaii, your subconscious also now
just opens up that portal and now you're starting to
(09:48):
see everything from Hawaii right come in and just how
the brain works. So it also works in a way
to protect you that you don't even know that it's happening.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And what you are not aware.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Of rules you, right, Like what you are not aware
of is your master until you know that it's mastering you,
and now I can take over and live more intentionally.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I think this is very true. If people would admit
to themselves that they're not as smart as they think
they are, and that we have a mechanism that's actually
doing ninety five percent of everything for us on autopilot,
then we could begin to make a change from that position.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
But I.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Struggle myself trying to get people to understand that information
and just really, you know, you're stupid. We're all stupid.
If you think about how the brain looks when it's
connected to all the nerve endings and stuff, you take
away all the flesh and everything just kind of looks
like a big jelly rolled, fraggle looking thing. And that's
what we are, and it's got information in it. How
(11:06):
do you override that? And with that comes the question
what does living more intentionally mean?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Living more intentionally is first getting clear about what do
you want? And a lot of people can answer that question.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You know, hey, what do you want? What do you mean?
What do I want? What do you want?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Then sometimes they'll say, well, what am I allowed to want?
You know, what can I want? Well, no, what do
you want?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
What do you want?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
In life? What do you want?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And that's the first thing for them to begin to
get clear on that and to help it. You know,
you can narrow that down to you know, as a father,
So for me, I have adult children, Well, what do
I want? What do I want in the relationship I
have with my children?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Well?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
What do I believe about raising adult children? Why do
I believe that? Is that my belief? Or is that
the did did my church tell me that? Or do
my parents say?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Like? What do I believe?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
And what do I want that relationship to be? So
it starts, you know, if you want to get granular,
it starts there. But the second piece to that is,
well who am I going to be? Right like as
a person, who am I going to be? And once
you get clear on those two things right now, we
can start to move in that direction. So what happens
(12:27):
is a lot of people think, well, I want to
find you know, I want to live a purposeful life. Well,
of course you do, and then they go into this
I get a search for my purpose. But really this
is my belief. Your purpose is to bring the most
authentic and honest version of you to this world.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And it's it's not an easy task.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Your purpose is not found in building schools in some
developing country, though you might go do that. That might
be one of your worthy pursuits in the course of
your lifetime.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
But your purpose here is is to bring that full
expression of you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
It's like every single person has a unique song to play,
and no one plays anyone else's song. And if you
don't play it, the world doesn't get to hear it.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right, So do you so start by getting clear?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Oh sorry to cut you off. So you're saying, start
by getting clear on that.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I agree?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And do you think that commonly people fall into the
purpose trap, thinking that they must have this overarching, divine
purpose and then they get so scared that they just
don't do anything at all or they don't know what
to do.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And you know, there's a lot of stuff online about
helping you find your purpose, and I've even heard guys
say like, oh, I can help you find it in
two minutes, and it's used this formula and it sounds
more like a marketing slogan like I helped you know,
such and such people solve this problem.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So to me, that's that's just missing it. That that
doesn't mean that that's not great.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And that's what I call a worthy pursuit, right, Like
you might have a worthy pursuit at some point in
your life that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Changes later on.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It's a little bit like I use this example in
the book that's coming out, The Call to Climb, where
it's a story about a woman who was a professional speaker,
motivational speaker, and you would speak all the time and
she loved it. She was changing lives, and she was like,
this is my purpose, this is what I was meant
to do. So we'll say things like that. Well, then
(14:31):
you know, something happened and she had to get a
surgery on her throat and there was basically an accident
and she lost her voice and couldn't speak anymore. So
falls into this depression because while my purpose has been
taken away from me, but not realizing that. No, her
purpose wasn't standing on stage, that was just the vehicle
(14:53):
she was using. Her purpose is to bring that full
expression of her and so she can so so even
though that's tragic what happened, she can find other vehicles
to spread that message, writing or whatever it might be.
And as she began to do that, right coach, then
(15:14):
it came back to her again like, ah, this is
I was like, this is what I meant to do.
So it's separating sometimes your purpose from the worthy pursuit,
because otherwise, if you're trying to find your purpose, like
what's that job, what's that career, that's so much pressure
because maybe you will go build schools in a developing country,
(15:37):
and after two years of that, maybe you'll go you
know what I'm done with this. I want to do
something else. And I've worked in the not for profit
space before, where I started to feel unhappy, and then
I felt guilty because I'm like, wait a minute, but
this is my purpose, Like I'm this is my calling.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I can't leave this. And it was from that thinking.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, well, it seems to shock people sometimes when I
tell them that you can have multiple purposes in life.
I had one client she's refusing to believe that she
could be anything other than a mother to her children
as a purpose, and it was such a mind blowing
(16:22):
experience for me because I felt like I had to
wrestle her to the ground to get her to do
anything with her children. She got the idea in her
head from online, like you said that she had to
have this crazy experience in order to feel purposeful. Yeah,
but why don't you feel good with your children? This
(16:42):
is very strange.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
We had to go down that road of figuring out
why that was, and it just wasn't It just was
unpleasant to watch. I say that story because there there
is a really large degree to which many people are
(17:03):
struggling right now to find who they are and where
they want to be. And I also remember reading about
I think his name is Arnold Lazarus in the psychology class,
and he was asking people what t want. But when
(17:25):
he asked that question, they would have like an existential crisis.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, it is difficult for people.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Your example of the mother is is just a great
example where people get locked into all is my purpose?
But the reality is you know again as I see it,
of course that's one of the roles she plays. Her
purpose is to bring herself fully to that role. That's
the purpose. But one day her kids will move out
(17:55):
of the house, and her purpose continues to roll into
other things because it's it's her. Another way to look
at it is like, so back to the soul. The
soul is like a seed of the oak tree. Right,
what's the oak tree's purpose? It's just to become the
oak tree. Now as an oak tree, it's going to
(18:15):
do a lot of things, right, it's going to provide shade,
it's going to provide a home for animals, it's going
to stop erosion. So it does things, but it only
does things because of who it has become.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And the focus really needs to be on who am
I meant to be in this world? And who do.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I want to be right, and in terms of then
what we do, yeah, life, life leaves breadcrumbs for us, right,
that we can narrow that down. But honestly, what's exciting
to me is that there's probably a thousand things that
you can do that are purposeful and it would be
an amazing way for you to express your soul in
this world. And in fact, life's not long enough to
(18:56):
do them all. And I think that's a beautiful thing.
That's the abundance of life.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Right, So can you sort of unpack the idea of
longing and discontent and how those things can push you forward?
I do think that I do think that longing and
discontent are part of life. And I know some people
(19:26):
are going to.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Disagree on this for sure, that you just always should
find this contented place. But for me, for me, part
of my growth, the catalyst is always discontent. The catalyst
is always this could be better. I want to improve this,
I want to do this. And so as soon as
(19:47):
I say something like that, I've now created a gap.
Of course, we know from just psychology that that creates motivation.
Other people will look at that and say, oh, well,
if you want something, then that's the root of all
sufferings when you when you have desires, and I get that,
I think, I think when I go on vacation, I
(20:08):
want to have no desires. But for the rest of
life for me, I mean, I think we're born to
walk uphill. We're born to We're born to think. I
want to grow. And there's there's a fine balance, of course,
to be okay with yourself, but not be okay where
you are, and if you can separate those two, like
(20:30):
I can be okay with myself and my worth and
my value. But am I happy where I am in
this moment right here? Am I happy with the progress here?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I want to be further ahead. I don't think that's
a bad thing at all. Where I think it's unhealthy
is when you fuse together your worth and.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Where you're at.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So a lot of people say things like, hey, you're
you're totally fine wherever you are, and I think, well,
that's half true. You are totally fine as a person,
You're worth your value regardless of what you're doing in life, but.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You may not be fine where you are, and.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Your soul lets you know that with those moments of hey,
there's something more for us there's something bigger for us,
and I think I think a healthy disappointment comes from
the soul to say we were meant for more.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, I agree with you. What else can I say?
Do you agree with the idea? Was it Carol Dweck?
Did I get that name right? With the idea of
fixed mindset versus growth oriented and people are divided into categories.
You think that's true.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I like Carol Dweck's work, but there's but I have.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I do have one problem with the fixed mindset growth
mindset is that it seems like a fixed mindset in itself,
and that you're this or you're that. So to me, actually,
I write about this in the upcoming book, but I
talk about the ego's mindset and the soul's mindset. The
soul's mindset is about growth and expansion and doesn't care
what people think because it's really just trying to grow.
(22:19):
Or the ego is like protect, protect, protect, But for me,
you know, like I, if I'm honest, I am both
of those. It depends what I'm doing. And I'll give
you a quick example. I remember last year I heard
about a storytelling competition in my city that happens and
(22:40):
so it's like an open mic night. You go in,
you put your name in the hat, and they draw out,
you know, ten names, and if your name gets drawn,
you go and you tell a story for five minutes
and you get judged by a panel. Anyways, I'd never
seen this before, never heard about it, but I speak
for a living and I thought, all, this would be
a good challenge, right, like I should go in that.
That's that growth mindset or that soul mindset. But there
(23:04):
was another part of me that's like, well, I mean,
like don't enter your first night, like go and kind
of see how it is and just watch first. Right,
that's the ego, that's the protective part, like don't fail.
It's basically what it's saying, don't fail. And I ended
up going and saying, no, I'm just going to do
it right growth mindset. So and what happens is I
(23:25):
went and I put my name in the hat and
I literally get picked first.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And I had no idea what to expect.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So I just went up told my story and in
the end and the end of the night, I ended
up getting sixth place. I was like wiped out in
a local storytelling competition and I was the most experienced
figer there for sure, so embarrassing if we're going to
go with the ego, but the soul would have a
very different mindset of that. The soul would be like, man,
(23:57):
that was awesome, Like you didn't even know what you're
getting into, Like it's so amazing that you trusted yourself
enough to be bold and just do that. That's fantastic,
whereas the other side of me was like, man, like,
that's embarrassing. All of that to say, I think people
have to choose to go into that growth mindset that
(24:21):
I don't know that that's it's certainly not natural for me,
but it doesn't mean I can't be there to be intentional.
So back to your question about Carol Dweck's work. The
thing I know, there's two things I don't like about it.
One is that it sort of sets itself up as
almost a fixed mindset, and the other one is a
(24:42):
lot of her research. And you correct me if I'm
wrong anyone who's listening, But a lot of her research
was done on adolescents, and that's a different time of
life than when you're in your forties and fifties, and
so I think obviously it's still a powerful work and
(25:04):
it serves me right, I've benefited from her research.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
But those would be the two things I don't like.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Right. Well, I laughed when you said that, because I
agree with what you're saying. It just I have the
same grievances with it. But you know, I think two,
when you're reading these self development books, you really have
to take stuff with a pinch of salt and try
(25:34):
to fact check some of the things that are being said.
Otherwise you don't always read the right benefits from it.
I'm not sure if you agree with that or not,
but I amn't really honestly found too many of the
popular books in that genre to be effective for much.
It gave me a lot of brain candy. I had
(25:56):
a great time reading it. I felt like I was
learning something, but you know, didn't do much for me
in the way of actually how do I grow?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
You know, I have a similar experience to that, you know,
picking up a book reading it like, ah, that's what
that's the reason I'm not further along. I'm not doing
this or all affirmations but stated in question form, Oh yeah,
that's the that's the secret. So we're always I think
people generally are just looking for the secret, like what's
the secret, what's the way? Because life's not easy. And
(26:29):
one challenge in the world of self help.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Is that you know a.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Lot of people who will write self help books, they
are writing about, of course, their experience and you know,
hey that this helped them.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And so what some people can.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Do is they can they can erroneously assign causality, like, oh,
the reason I'm successful is because I started doing these
affirmations and maybe that is or maybe it wasn't, you know,
So to your point for people to be a little
bit more critical as they read stuff and like get
(27:13):
I get the spiritual side, of course, but I'm also
like half my father who was very pragmatic in science,
and so you know, someone wants to talk to me
about manifestation. Okay, my mother's half of me is all in,
but my father's half is like, well, wait a minute,
like let's what do you mean, Like how does that work?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Like you got to explain that better, can't just tell
me that.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So I think it is good to have a critical
mind to on some of these aspects. And the other
thing is just because it worked for someone doesn't mean
it's going to work for you. And I've seen people
who are like, hey, don't grind, like just just surrender
and watch things come to you.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And then this is what I did, and they came
to me. And then I'll hear another guy that's like.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Hey, get off your rear, get off the couch and
quit cry and grind and work fourteen hours and that
worked for them. So there's just a whole lot of
things that work. What I do think the self help
industry is not honest about is.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I think changing your life.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Is infinitely more difficult than anyone wants to admit, at
least in the self help world. And I think when
you venture into working on yourself, especially as you start
to uncover these programs, and you know, let's say you
struggle with people pleasing okay, Well, that's just a habit,
that's just a coping mechanism you acquired along the way,
(28:43):
and you know that's probably going to be with you
your entire life. And not saying that you won't change it,
that you won't get better at it, what I'm saying
is that the sensitivity and so this is where it
comes into living intentional life. So the more intentional I
am to not let my people pleasing dictate my path,
(29:08):
the stronger I'll be. But that people pleasing nature, at
least in my life, is always at is always outside
the door. It just doesn't knock as loud anymore, but
it's still outside the door. And that might sound like
really discouraging, but I think I think that's more accurate.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I've heard some people say, oh, like, you know, come
do this.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
A subconscious you know, hypnosis technique, and then people change
and they never struggle again. I hope that's true. It's
never been true for me. I've never just magically been
free from some of my limiting beliefs. Always had to
(29:53):
be vigilant, right.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Well, you know, I'm a hymnotherapist, so I can tell
you for sure it's not magic. It does that happened
like that. I think that's a really bad misconception that's
pushed on the Internet, and a lot of people just
want to sound like they have magical powers to try
to sell you stuff. But you actually have to do
(30:16):
a lot of work inside of that that that framework
in order to reach the belief in the first place,
let alone to get a person to change their relationship
to that belief, because it's about changing your relationship to it.
It's not that it just magically goes away. So yeah,
for sure, it's a struggle and I have to be
(30:38):
honest about that for people that maybe they are thinking
about doing some kind of course, I don't know with
you or you know, myself or anybody else. You ask questions,
find out exactly what the process is like, because anybody
that's earnest is going to say exactly what you've said.
(30:58):
You know, changing your life is hard work. And I
always go back to the wisdom of my grandfather. I
was fortunate to have him in my life up until
I was seventeen years old. And you're talking about a
guy that was born in the early nineteen hundreds, so
he didn't have anything. His first job was selling newspapers
(31:21):
at like ten years old or something like that, you know.
And I remember I asked him one time when I
was about thirteen, how he got so good at everything
that he did, and he was, I just did it,
and you know, he was like one of my favorite
songs is Frank Sinatra. I did it my way. And
(31:42):
he just never listened to anything that anybody told him.
He never listened when anybody told him how to do anything.
He just did it his own way, and he wasn't
afraid to make mistakes. And you know, just to give
you some context, I still live in my family's home.
It's actually two houses that are right next to each
(32:06):
other on the beach in Barbados, you know, a place
that has statistically been plagued by poverty, essentially third world
stuff for its entire existence. It wasn't easy for a
black man to elevate himself in status in the early
(32:30):
nineteen hundreds and onward. You know what I'm saying. He
did it through art work. So I think that's the
only secret. You have to be willing to work hard.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
You know, this is a great point you bring up
about your grandfather, And thanks for sharing that, because it
makes me think about now. We are saturated and inundated
not only with information but with marketers, and part of
marketers strategy is basically to incite more pain to tell
you no, that's not the way to do it. Here's
(33:06):
why that's hard, because it's not the best way. You
got to do it this way. So when I think
about some of my earlier years in business, you're always
trying these different things. I got to build an email list.
Then someone comes along, I don't build an email list
like emails.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Dad, you got to do this? Oh yeah, I got
to do this.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
And so what I find is that there's all there's
even more reasons to doubt yourself today. Like think about
to our grandparents' day. You know, they had to go
sell something. Okay, maybe there was a book, or maybe
it was just some mentoring them telling them that how
they did it, but you had to.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Figure it out.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And again I'm all for learning and coaching and mentoring
and speeding up the process. But at the end of
the day, you know, as you know that well, even
from a learning perspective, like seventy percent of the learning
journey happens while we're doing it. There's the experience so
that you can process the the different instructions we've been
(34:04):
given and then we try them. Okay, that worked, or
that didn't quite work, or maybe I got to say
this differently. And this goes, you know, back to the
concept in the book to call the climb, which is really, yeah,
at some point you got to climb, like you got
to get on the mountain, because it's in the struggle, right,
it's in the struggle. It's in the headwind that that
(34:26):
really shapes us, you know, and hopefully for the better.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, it's true. When I first started this over a
decade ago, I was doing training with Mary Morrissey. I'm
sure you're familiar with her work. No, No, she's like
one of the old school people. You had, Mary Morrissey.
It's that guy that died Wayne Dyer. There's another guy
(34:55):
that was Jack Bolandet older like transferm national coaching and
leadership type stuff, you know, the same narrative. And she
used to say all the time, baby steps will take
you right up the site of Mount Everest. And I
was like, well, that seems like a ridiculous claim, but
in a way it makes sense, you know, because you're
not really going to, like you said, get there unless
(35:15):
you claim right.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
You don't have a choice. But with that, talk to
me a little bit more about the inspiration to write
your book.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
The version to write the book.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
So what happened was somewhere in my mid thirties when
I was not feeling happy and excited about what I
was doing. So actually I was working for a church
in Christian ministry, which was not something I ever thought
I would do, but you know, life's funny and throws
a curveball at you. So when I came out of college,
(35:50):
I started doing that and I enjoyed the work. Initially.
I love working with people, helping people. And over time
though it wasn't necessarily the ministry, it was the organization
I was working for began to change how they did stuff,
and it just started to like not feel good, didn't
feel authentic what we were doing. I started to feel
(36:12):
like I was in a sales organization. And it was
during that time that I started to feel really depressed,
and I then, of course felt really guilty that I
would be depressed. It was just all this stuff I
didn't know how to process, and it sort of just
went through this time of burnout and got really sick,
and even the doctor said, hey, there's nothing wrong with you,
(36:34):
maybe you just have depression, and you know, for me,
I was like, no, I couldn't, that's impossible. But that
was I think the initial summons of the soul to
sit down and get honest, but I didn't.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I just ignored it. I ignored that appointment.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
It just kept moving on, and it wasn't until so
during that time though, I was introduced to the work
of James. So have you ever read anything by doctor
James Hollis. He's a Youngian psychoanalyst. Have you ever read
any of his stuff?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I don't think I've read it.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
No, I would encourage you to pick it up because
he is amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
He writes the stuff that's really deep.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Of course he's ungi and so it's he talks about
the soul. But he he was the one that had
the concept about the soul summons you for an appointment
at some point, and most people avoid the appointment.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So that stuck with me, and.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Maybe about ten years ago I had this idea, you know,
wouldn't it be interesting to write a book about someone
who was summoned to have a conversation with their soul?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And but it takes place on a mountain.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
So that's where the that's where the genesis of the
book came, the idea. It really came out of my
own story and ignoring the ignoring in a sense, the
call to climb right, ignoring the sit down with my
soul to go, hey, what do you what do you
actually want?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And who do you want to be?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
And I didn't have those conversations, I put them off
at least a decade, right.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Okay, So I mean, what is what is it that
you are really trying to deeply express by putting this
book out there for people.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I want people to realize that often the life they're
living is not the one that I'll say this, that
often the life they're living, it's not really their life.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
They're living a collection of a lot of other things.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And if you really want to, if we want to
use the word individuate, if you really want to, if
you really want to live an authentic life, then it's
going to take some work.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
It's going to take some separation from the tribe. It's
going to take.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Really you figuring out, hey, what do I want and
then having the courage to bring your full self to
the world. And I would say I'm still working on that.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Even this book is so different than my last book
is very corporate leadership. You know, it's it's it's done well,
but it's very like, here's how to be a better leader.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
This book all of a sudden comes in.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
We actually had to redesign our website, which we're still
doing because we're like, well, how do how do these
two messages fit. They're so different and there's but this,
this latest book is is a more honest version of
what I would produce than the first one. Not that
the first one's wrong or bad, it's just okay, it's
for work. But even that it's been okay, Well, do
(39:45):
you know, do I go and make a YouTube video
and LinkedIn video about this? Like how is that going
to be perceived?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Like?
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I will still have those questions, which is, let's just
boil down, like, well, actually, who cares? Who cares how
that's perceived? Is this what you want to say? Is
this message you want to get out? Well, yes it is, okay,
then get it out right. So again, easier said than done.
But so to me, that's the beauty of life. It's
this lifelong journey. But you know, back to doctor Hollis
(40:12):
who has a great quote, when the path is right,
the energy is there, and you need that energy right
if you're going to take on this work in whatever
you're doing.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
So on the flip side of that, let's assume somebody
who has achieved most, if not all, of everything that
they want and they pick up your book. What would
they take away from it?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
If they had achieved almost everything they want. That's a
great question. I would think if they picked up the book, then.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
They would probably be able to look and go, oh, yeah,
that's what I did, that was my path.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I had those moments.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I think there's there's also value in validating someone's someone's
path and someone's experience. But I that would be my
best answer for you.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You know, I'm not here to say like, no, everyone's
got to do it this way or my way. Of
course not.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Man, if you've made it through life and you can
just think, well, I did everything I did and oh, fantastic,
good for you.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Right, Well, and what's next? Right, what's the next mountain
you're gonna climb?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Like, I don't want to go, and I don't want to.
I don't want to say I don't want to retire.
I don't want to be the person that says that.
But do I want to just do nothing?
Speaker 4 (41:32):
No?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I think I would always no, I wouldn't want to
just do nothing. I would always have to be doing something.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, just as a selling point. One more question, what
is your favorite chapter if you have one.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
I have a couple of favorite chapters, and honestly, writing
the book was it was an emotional experience for me.
There were more than a few times I'm in this
cafe and I'm writing, this surge of emotion would come
up and I'm like whiteing tears from my eyes while
I'm writing this book.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
So I think one of them, though, is there's a
scene where.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
The main character, Riley gets you know, Riley's been called
to climb this mountain. Obviously there's some mysticism to it,
because mountains done typically I actually call you to climb,
so but there's this mystical place. So anyways, they get
up high on the mountain and Riley starts to be
excited about climbing further, and then this big snowstorm hits
(42:34):
and it just doesn't let up, and it's it's a
chapter talking about energy and carrying stuff that you don't
need to be carrying. And so what happens is Riley
is carrying grudges, resentments people that they've not forgiven, and
the mountain is not letting them climb further until they
let everything go and really to give them selves that
(42:56):
gift of forgiving. And so there's a to me, I
think there's a powerful scene there where Riley wrestles. Wrestles
fights with like why would I forgive this guy, you know,
after what he did, and eventually gets to the point
where they realize, oh, this is I'm only hurting myself
and I've I've got a gift myself by letting this
(43:19):
go and moving on with my life. And then you know,
so that's that's that's a favorite story for me, and uh, yeah,
I think I'll go with that.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Fantastic James, it was good to meet you. Thanks for
being on the Boneless Authenticity Podcast. Can you tell everyone
where they can find you?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, thank you, you can. My main website is James
Robbins dot com. That's two b's. But if you want
to hear more about the book, go to its website,
which is I Will Climb dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I Will Climb dot com. It comes out August.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Fifth, but if you pre order it you get some
cool bone So yeah, go to I Will Climb dot com.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And hey, come find me on LinkedIn. Love to Connect.
Tell me that you heard this on Jahan's show. Great conversation, James,
thanks again, Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
You're listening to the Boundless Authenticity podcast, where we discuss
everything related to the evolution of human consciousness.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
At the very.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Leasty, you need to understand that the United States builds bunkers,
which are basical cities on your ground every three months.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Basically into your self conscious is your love and insolution,
your creativity.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
And imagination, unshamed from conscious saison and little bit you're.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
All under your life for the soul. If I have
a consciousness section, algy cultures of your right.
Speaker 5 (44:56):
We live in a multi dimensional reality, whether it comes
through editary information in the spiritual realms or the UFO
people experiences, or mainstreams and positive physics, and through natrem
science and now realizing that parallel dimensions probably exists, we're all.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Spiritual means we're all having these human experiences. We've heard
that phrase over and over and over, but what does
that really mean?
Speaker 5 (45:16):
And all of the questions of why do we have
these answers inside of ourselves. We're ultimately studying the nature
of what it is to be human, good and evil,
our psychology, how we're fitting our health. That's why I
love Bruce Lee's great quote all knowledge is ultimately self knowledge.
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