Bri Trudeau: Beyond the Slopes: Ski Racing, Sports Injuries, and Psychology

In this episode of the Braun Performance & Rehab Podcast, Dan is joined by Bri Trudeau to discuss her journey in college and international ski racing, the injuries she overcame as a ski racer including compartment syndrome of her lower extremity, and her current work in clinical psychology.Bri grew up ski racing in Colorado and later moved to the East Coast to attend Burke Mountain Academy for high school. At 16, she was nominated to the U.S. National Team but ultimately had to decline the invitation due to injury. After graduating from Burke, she spent a gap year training and racing in Italy with the International Ski Racing Academy (ISRA), gaining valuable experience on the international circuit.
She went on to attend Dartmouth College, where she competed as a Division I alpine skier and served as team captain during her senior year. Throughout her ski career, Bri faced and overcame multiple injuries, including a fractured tibial plateau and damaged growth plate, a partially torn PCL, chronic exertional compartment syndrome, and fractures in both tibias, which ultimately led to her decision to retire from the sport.
After stepping away from racing and graduating from Dartmouth, Bri shifted her focus to the mental health field and is now pursuing a PhD in clinical psychology in Michigan, specializing in work with young children and families. Her research explores early childhood development, with a focus on the interplay of sleep problems, parenting practices, and children's emotional regulation and anxiety symptoms. For more on Bri be sure to check out linkedin.com/in/bri-trudeau & Brianna M. Trudeau's research works | Dartmouth College and other places*SEASON 6 of the Braun Performance & Rehab Podcast is brought to you by Isophit. For more on Isophit, please check out isophit.com and @isophit -BE SURE to use coupon code BraunPR25% to save 25% on your Isophit order!**Season 6 of the Braun Performance & Rehab Podcast is also brought to you by Firefly Recovery, the official recovery provider for Braun Performance & Rehab. For more on Firefly, please check out https://www.recoveryfirefly.com/ or email [e-mail]***This episode is also powered by Dr. Ray Gorman, founder of Engage Movement. Learn how to boost your income without relying on sessions. Get a free training on the blended practice model by following @raygormandpt on Instagram. DM my name “Dan” to @raygormandpt on Instagram and receive your free breakdown on the model.Episode Affiliates:MoboBoard: BRAWNBODY10 saves 10% at checkout!AliRx: DBraunRx = 20% off at checkout! https://alirx.health/MedBridge: https://www.medbridgeeducation.com/brawn-body-training or Coupon Code "BRAWN" for 40% off your annual subscription!CTM Band: https://ctm.band/collections/ctm-band coupon code "BRAWN10" = 10% off!Ice shaker affiliate link: https://www.iceshaker.com?sca_ref=1520881.zOJLysQzKeMake sure you SHARE this episode with a friend who could benefit from the information we shared!Check out everything Dan is up to by clicking here: https://linktr.ee/braun_prLiked this episode? Leave a 5-star review on your favorite podcast platform

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Brown Performance and
Rehab Podcast powered by Isofit and Firefly Recovery. Isofit is
my go to for all things isometric strength training. For
more on Isofit, be sure to check out isofit dot com.
Episodes like this are made possible by Firefly, the official
recovery provider of the bron Performance and Rehab Podcast. For

(00:22):
more on Firefly, be sure to check out Recovery firefly
dot com. This episode is powered by doctor Ray Gorman,
founder of Engage Movement. Learn how to boost your income
without relying on sessions. Get a free training on the
Blended practice model by following at Ray Gorman DPT on
Instagram Free Welcome to the podcast. I'm super excited to

(00:43):
work with you today. In a huge shout out to
our friend Kara for getting us connected that way. For
people who aren't familiar with you, your background in the
ski space and all the amazing things you're doing now
in the psychology world that way, would you mind fell
them in a little bit about who you are and
all the great things you've got going on.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, for sure, Thank you for having me. Yeah, So
I started ski racing when I was really young. I
think I was on skis, you know, when I could
walk around one two, and then started racing at six
years old. We grew up in Colorado, so there was
easy access to the mountain. It was the classic you know,
family ski days on the weekend. And then yeah, from there,

(01:22):
skiing kind of took off. I was like missing school
in fifth grade to go train in the afternoon. And
then for high school, my mom moved across the country
with my sister and I. We attended Burke Mountain Academy
and what was there for four years? And then after
I left Burke, I was, you know, trying to figure

(01:42):
out next steps. I was dealing with some injuries at Burke,
and you know, knew I wanted to go to college,
so I was, you know, figuring out how can I
best set myself up to be competitive in the college
racing sphere. Uh And there was a new like international
ski team that was starting up in Europe who one
of my previous coaches at Burke was starting. So the

(02:05):
timing worked out great on that and so I spent
a gap year in Europe racing with an international ski team.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
That's where I met Kara.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
And then after that I started at Dartmouth College and
skied for them for well, what was kind of four years,
but you know I had some injury in there and
COVID and stuff, So yeah, that was pretty much my
ski journey. And then post skiing, I am now in
Michigan getting my PhD in clinical psychology.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
So that's amazing. I mean, you're living quite an impressive
life that way, from skiing on the international stage to
Ivy League education, living across the country that way. I mean,
what an impressive life you've had so far, Bree. And
you brought up some amazing things that I want to
dive into a little bit more. I mean, first off,
the whole concept of skiing from sanchia young age. I

(02:52):
remember when we talked last time, we kind of both
had that in common with us, that way, where I
started skiing right aroun eighteen months and you started skiing
about the same time that way, And it's one of
those things that I feel like, at least from my experience,
when you start something that young, it becomes second nature
to you so much so that now you know, I'm

(03:13):
lucky to ski maybe a week or two every year,
but when I go, it feels like just second nature.
It's like I haven't lost at anything, even though I
don't do it as frequently as I used to because
I started at such a young age. I'm interested to
hear more about kind of your thoughts on that and
if any of the psychological development stuff that you're studying
now kind of plays into that at all.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, great question. Yeah, it's really interesting. I think there's
actually a bunch of stuff coming out, you know, over
the last couple of years about you know, kids specializing
early in sports and you know how that's it's anal
like a race at this point, you know, how early
can you get your kid in the sport because it's
getting more and more competitive and kids are getting faster

(03:54):
and faster and better and better in their respective sports.
And there is some yeah, there is some psychological research
out there on you know, kind of the harms on
you know, specializing kids really early and you know, pushing
kids into this really competitive environment early on. But I think,
you know, as long as kids are enjoying it and
that's you know, kind of driven by them and something

(04:16):
that they want to do, I think you kind of
get into this interesting space where you have like parents
who are really pushing, and then kids often get pushed
out of the sport early or retire early because you know,
they were pushed into it really young and never really
developed that early intrinsic motivation to be in the sport
and we're kind of just doing it for that external
reward or because their parents made them so.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Absolutely, what made you so interested and connected with the
sport of skiing that way from a young age and
what kept you going with it long term? Was it
something that kind of used what you just outlined that way.
Was it something that was almost like an expectation for you, like, hey,
we're a skiing family, so you're going to be a skier,
or was it something that you sort of fell in
love with during your time kind of within the sport

(05:00):
that way?

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, I think I think my love for the sport
developed over the years. Really Like at the beginning, it
was it was a family thing. So my dad grew
up ski racing and you know, kind of showed us
the ropes and everything, and so early on it was
kind of like, oh, we're skiing because the family skis,
and that's you know, a family activity. And I think

(05:22):
it really took me until I was maybe in high
school really when I kind of had my own you know,
the expectation was like I'm responsible for my training, and
I think I had a bit of a moment where
I was like why am I doing this? And I
really enjoyed like the team aspect and the community aspect

(05:43):
of the sport. I am a very competitive person and
so I think that like drive to be better really
kept me going for a while and through injury and stuff.
So yeah, I think ultimately it shifted. You know, at
the beginning, it was more because my parents did it,
and then towards the end, you know, I kind of
had to think about, you know, why am I doing

(06:04):
this and why am I doing it for me versus
for other people?

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Absolutely no, one hundred percent. And I love that you
kind of had that realization and shift of like, hey,
I'm doing this for me. But it also kind of
is like a little hat nod and pays respect to
those that helped you get to that point as well.
And I've had numbers of number of podcasts with others
diving into skiing and ski racing, whether that's the podcast

(06:28):
we did with Kara or Reagan Dewhurst or any of
these other amazing people. And one of the things that
comes up over and over again when I'm talking with
individuals in this skiing space that way is skiing is
an incredibly accessible sport. A lot of people can ski
and enjoy it. However, there is a huge gap between
the sport being accessible and the racing population in my opinion,

(06:51):
and I think a lot of times people don't understand
or appreciate the significance of that gap. Right, if you
have someone that just goes out and rex and maybe
they hit the greens and the blues, like, that's totally fine.
But when you enter the world of ski racing, it's
not so much just the enjoyment piece of it. Obviously,
it's a lot of fun and I always love bombing

(07:12):
hills and going sixty miles an hour and stuff. It's great,
but there's a lot of risk associated with that. When
you're going that fast. You see what hitting a tree
driving a car at that speed does to the car. Well,
think about what hitting a tree would do when you
don't have anything around you, right, it's just you and
you're going that fast down the hill. One to the
equipment considerations, like whether that be the boots and the

(07:35):
speed suits when it's freaking cold outside, or the fact
that you know, you're like messing around with the wax
on your skis just to get it to the right temperature,
and you spend way longer doing that than you wanted to,
because that's what it takes to be competitive at this level.
There's a lot of little minute things that go into it,
from the preparation standpoint and even the training standpoint as well.

(07:56):
I'd say, like a lot of times when I tell
people like, yeah, you know, growing up, like we would
unbuckle our boots at the top of the hill and
we would ski down with our boots, you know, completely unstrapped,
completely unbuckled, and they're like, why would you do that?
But it's like it teaches you skills that carry over
into the racing world that give you that slight edge
that you need to be competitive that way. I'm interested

(08:18):
to hear kind of your takes and thoughts on that
element of ski racing, because, for lack of a better
way to put it, it's a phenomenal sport that I
found so enjoyable and addicting. However, a lot of the
components of it are not necessarily pleasant, and things that
we can really like explain to people in a rational
sense unless you've tried it.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
I feel, yeah, I still feel like I can't explain
ski racing to anyone in a rational way. You know,
I'll say, talk about the equipment, in the weather and
all the different variables and aspects that go into it,
and you know, at the end of the conversation is
always like, wait, so I did you do this? But yeah,
I mean I think it's a it's as you said,

(08:58):
it's an addicting sport. Like there's something about like that
risk and like being right on the edge of okay,
I could you know, fall at a very high speed
at any point right now, and just like that, I
don't know, the feeling of like a perfect turn or
you know, every run, like pushing yourself to be a
little bit faster and better. I think that, you know,

(09:19):
over time is what drives people to kind of keep going.
But there are you know, the sport is ridiculous, and
that you're you're literally putting in hours of you know,
training into tuning your skis and your you know, tweaking
your equipment. Like I mean, I had one season where
I was messing with like the canting on my boots.
I was also having like shin issues at the same time,

(09:41):
so there's some of that. But like we're talking half
a degree, like tilting in the outside of my boot,
and when you're at that level in the sport, it's
something you feel. But you're messing with these like super
super small details for hundreds of a second, right, Like
the difference between first and second place oftentimes in races
is you know, a matter of one hundreds or tents,

(10:02):
and so we're doing all this stuff and you know,
making sure the wax is right for the temperature of
the snow, and like I remember, as a female athlete
in the sport, we always talked about like braiding your
hair versus wearing your hair in a ponytail, like little
things like that, and then it comes down. You know,
you could have one turn where you mess it up
and you lose three tenths right there. So you're putting
in all this effort and then if you you know,

(10:24):
you scrub a turn, it's you know, it can be
up to a second that you just lost. So it's
a it's a frustrating sport. It's one of those things
that you I feel like in all the races I did.
You know, maybe you get five to ten percent of
races where you're like, Wow, that felt really good or
I'm really proud of that, you know, result or effort,
and the other ninety percent or ninety five percent is

(10:45):
just you're kind of banging your head against a wall.
But it's it's really those those breakthrough results where you're like, oh, Okay,
this is.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
The magic, absolutely, and I feel like the adrenaline rush
you get from all of those, even the low points
in that journey, right highs and the lows. There's something
about the concept of going really ridiculously fast down a hill,
acknowledging the risks that's associated with it, and realizing just
how much work and prep you put in just to

(11:12):
get to that moment. And again that cumulates over the years,
but also just in the days and hours leading up
to the event. Right, It's not uncommon for me to
get to the mountain at like maybe they open at
like eight eight thirty. That's typical opening time up in
Pennsylvania where I grew up, And there's people that have
been there since four or five in the morning prepping
for like their ski racing right right, like there's a

(11:33):
lot of sacrifices that are made for this sport that way,
and I feel like all of that just kind of
fuels the adrenaline and excite, exciting nature of the sport
that way. And it's one that I don't really find
that in a lot of other sports, or you know,
maybe it exists, but just not quite in the same
caliber as it does in the ski racing world, at
least for.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Me that way.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Absolutely, I mean I think something that's you know, unique
about the sport too is there's you know, not only
are there are all these factors and variables that were tweaking,
but there's also all these factors and variables that are
out of our control on any given day. So you know,
you have your skiing on a on a different hill
for every race day, so you have that you know,
new unique situation you have. The snow condition is going

(12:18):
to be different, like from one run, from one turn
to the next turn, the weather can roll in. You know,
you can have pitch sunny skiing for the first ten
racers and then the fog rolls in. So there's just
so much unpredictability and I think that is part of
what you know keeps it so interesting is you have
to be adaptable in the sport, and you have to

(12:38):
be able to kind of manage different conditions and you know,
different variables that are out of your control.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Absolutely, I completely agree. Now, in relation to your own
ski racing career, what events did you race and were
your Super G or gs? What did you race in
and what did your own kind of training and prep
for those look like?

Speaker 2 (12:55):
So early on, growing up in Colorado, there was much
better access to speed venues. They just have longer terrain
and the ability to kind of you know, set a
downhill or a super G race. And I think Kara
explained this event in her podcast, but basically, you know,
downhill is the gates are the farthest apart, it's the

(13:15):
fastest event, and then it goes to Super G they're
a little closer together, GS giants, and then slalom, and
so downhill and super G are considered the speed events,
and GS and slom are considered the tech or the
technical events. And so early on, like at age twelve,
we were downhill training, which is crazy to me. After
you know, moving and spending the latter half of my
career on the East Coast, like you just don't do that.

(13:38):
So I had a lot more speed exposure when I
was younger, and I think that I was I had
a bit of a natural like giftedness towards towards speed.
I think, you know, being on snow so early it
gave me kind of a feel for the snow and
for my skis, and that's really helpful for speed. However,
I think the the combination of the jumping so like

(14:02):
getting airtime as well as just like really risking things
was not I was like a very technical, pretty skier,
and so I think I, you know, my coaches tried
to kind of push me in towards the speed direction,
especially through like my high school years, and sometimes like
in the US in particular, it can be easier to

(14:23):
make well, this is up for debate, in my opinion,
it can be easier to make national team criteria through
speed events. So they were kind of trying to push
me in that direction, and ultimately I decided, you know,
for a combination of factors and injury and stuff, that
I wanted to go the college route, and in college
you only ski tech events, and so kind of the

(14:44):
latter half of my career was just slalom in GS.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Absolutely, and it sounds like you kind of dabbled in
everything and then kind of transitioned in accordance with kind
of what phase of your career and life you were in.
And I think that's something that a lot of people
don't or a lot of sports don't have, is like,
you know, if I'm playing lacrosse, it's not like I
can just you know, scale down my lacrosse like ability
from like being reliant on my speed to being a

(15:10):
lot more technical. Like I can't just flip that switch
the same way I can. Whereas ski racing, you know,
if you don't want to run super G and you
just decide to enter slalom, like you're shifting event types
literally on the fly that way. It's almost like I
think of like track and field going from being like
an eight hundred runner to like a two hundred meter runner.
It's like that kind of shift. It's still the same

(15:32):
sport if you will, However, the demands that go into
it and the actual type of event is drastically different.
I think that's something that's really enticing to me about
the ski racing side of things, is just how it
can cater to pretty much anyone that's willing to put
in the work that to get to that level of
competitive nature that it takes. And again, it's a lot

(15:53):
of work, it's a lot of hours put in to
be good at this. But if you put that time
in and you get to that level, it's like, you know,
if you don't want to run downhill and super g anymore,
you can switch. If you don't want to run slow
them anymore, you can switch. Obviously, there's more work to
do to be good at those things, but you can
still do it, you know. And I haven't met any
Mogul skiers Mogul ski racers yet, but I mean that's

(16:16):
another one. If you're crazy enough to want to go
out and do that, be my guest. It's just it's
so appealing to me in the sense that it allows
something for everyone I feel, and that goes back to
I think what you touched on earlier is just this
like community feel that comes with the ski racing side
of things, right. It's not something that I would say
millions and millions of people are in on, like you know,

(16:36):
one person, odds are you can get connected to almost
anyone in the space and in the community that way.
It's just a very tight knit group of people. It's
not the biggest like sport by nature, I don't think,
but it's one of those things that I think there's
a lot of power that comes from the fact that
you're all around other people that are trying to do
the same thing as you, similar goals, similar mindset, but

(16:59):
also like they understand just like you mentioned earlier, everywhere
on is different. Everyone's gonna have good days and bad days.
Like there's just a lot of variables and factors that
go into it, and I think the more you can
kind of lean into that community aspect of the sport,
the better off it is for everyone.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's it's the ski world is such a
small world, I think, and it's something that continues. You know,
I'm three two three years out of the sport and
I still keep in touch with, you know, a lot
of the people that I was, you know with throughout
my career, and you kind of have those different pockets
like I feel like I have, you know, my high

(17:35):
school group of friends and my gap year group of friends,
and my college group of friends, and honestly, like they're
still my best friends to this to this day. So Yeah,
it's it's a really cool sport in that I think
you become really close to your teammates and to the
community in general.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
What's different for you about competing growing up in like
the high school type of events where you're getting pulled
out of school early to go compete versus international, versus
collegiate competition at Dartmouth that way, How did those levels
all kind of differ from one another from a competition standpoint.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
So, yeah, I mean in high school at Burke, we
this is kind of a funny fact that people like
cannot wrap their head around, but we didn't get grades
at Burke and so yeah, so everything was like like
narrative based. So at the end of every term or semester,
we got like a written narrative from each of our

(18:33):
teachers about you know, what we could do better and
you know what was going well. And so I think
and you know, the whole the Burke community there's like
sixty students I think these days, and so and everyone's
used to that, like you know, people everyone at the
school has crazy training schedules and race schedules, and so
the expectation kind of is that there is some flexibility

(18:54):
on the school front. And not to say that we
didn't do school like we did, but I you know,
there was one winter where I was like eight English
classes or something because I was just traveling that much.
So I think going from that kind of you know,
laid back school, really intense ski environment, and then in
my gap year where I wasn't doing any school and

(19:15):
you know, skiing is much bigger over in Europe. I
think Kara talked about that a bit, but it's it's
a whole other world over there, like it is we. Yeah,
It's just it was kind of surreal to be in
this space where you know, it's kind of like maybe
not soccer football here, but it's you know, much bigger
over in Europe. And so that was neat to kind

(19:36):
of feel like there were more spectators at races and
you could like walk into a coffee shop and people
be interested in what you're doing, and the ski racing
would be on versus the football being on. And then
so going yeah, going from like being fully immersed in
this completely ski racing world to then going to college
and first of all feeling like I was thrown in
the deep end after not having grades and taking a

(19:57):
year off not doing school to you know, go to
Dartmouth was yeah, a whole learning curve experience for me.
But I think, you know, my teammates were really helpful
and kind of teaching me the ways and you know,
how you navigate talking with professors and missing classes. And
I learned very quickly that if you know, if a
professor was not okay with you missing classes, then you

(20:20):
just couldn't take that class. And so we had a
list of like eight classes that you could take in
the winter, and it was guaranteed that, like throughout your
four years at Dartmouth, you would take all eight of
those classes because those were the only teachers you know,
that were that were okay with us missing as much
as we needed to miss. So there are some random
ones like evolution of Earth in life, and you know,

(20:42):
I had quite the list of of courses I took.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
By the end.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
But yeah, that was fascinating kind of you know, taking
this like, Okay, now school is the primary priority and
skiing kind of comes second. And it was you know,
much higher demand in college. I found, like we were
training thirty hours per week, and obviously the academic demands
don't decrease, So we would you be staying up until

(21:06):
you know, eleven pm doing homework when you got back
from training, and then you had to do your skis,
so another hour in the tuning room.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
So it was busy. College was busy.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Quick break because if you're a rehab professional sick of burnout,
this could be your answer. Engage Movements. Blended practice model
is a proven system built by doctor Ray Gorman, a PT,
who walked away from the fifty five hour a week
grind and built a blended practice model that doubled his
income while working less than twenty five hours a week,
and he didn't have to rely on the traditional way

(21:36):
of selling sessions to do so. It's all about blending
remote and in person services, stacking monthly recurring revenue, and
building a business that finally supports your life, not the
other way around. This model isn't just theory. Real providers,
including myself, are creating lives of freedom and flexibility without
being tied to their schedule. And as a listener, you
get free access to the complete training DM my name

(21:59):
Dan to at Ray Gorman DPT on Instagram and receive
your free breakdown on the model. Absolutely and it's it's
interesting to hear you say that, because obviously, when skiing
is everything right, when you're over in Europe, like skiing
is life, you go all in on that thing. Everything
is dialed. Or like the word that's real trendy right
now is optimal. I don't know what that word even means,

(22:20):
but you know, you're getting your sleep, you're getting your
you know, good food, you got plenty of time for
the apres afterwards. If you're into that sort of thing,
like you can pretty much do whatever you want. Versus college,
that all changes drastically, and now all of a sudden,
instead of eight hours of sleep, we're down to five
hours of sleep. Instead of like, oh my gosh, I've
got an hour two hours after I wrap up the

(22:42):
ski day to literally just sit back, chill, relax. Stress
level's going to come down. Just hang with the crew
that way and have a good time to Oh, I've
got to go do homework. I've got to go write
this essay. I've got to go write this paper. And
keep in mind, for those listening, this is prior to
the chat GPT era, because I feel like a lot
of times now people are like, oh, I'll just I'll
chat GPT it, it'll be fine. This is before we

(23:05):
had the ability to do that, and we still had
to write our own papers and generate our own outlines
and do all this stuff by ourselves that way. And
I feel like I feel like there's this, like I
don't know what the right word is for it, just
this intangible skill that comes from doing stuff like that,
where it's like you're in high level sport, right, You're
in D one sport, you have an IVY League education.

(23:27):
You've got to merge the demands of the two of
them at the same time as you're trying to navigate
your kind of early adult life that way. And I
feel like when you do all of that successfully, or
even if you're not one hundred percent successful by your
definition of success at it, but you're navigating all of
that without any influence or assistance from tech and AI
and all these different things, when you do that, like

(23:48):
it just leads you up for success in anything you
pursue later in life. It's like, hey, look what I
accomplished and look what I overcome without much assistance at all. Right, Like,
obviously you got your friends, family, but outside of them,
it's a lot of work that you put in by
yourself to get to that point, and I think it's
there's like this lost art, in my opinion, of doing

(24:09):
the work that it takes to succeed through that push
yourself through the long nights and kind of burn the
midnight oil metaphorically if you will. You know, I just
feel like a lot of times that's becoming a thing
in the past now, and I think that there's something
valuable that that teaches, even though I can't necessarily put
that in words.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
I think college and I think a lot of people
have this experience. They talk about how college like chills
them out, because you know, we come from these ski
academies where you have, you know, all these resources, the
nutrition side of things. As you were discussing sports psychologists,
athletic trainers. You know, you're you're working out for you know,
two hours a day or whatever, and you know specific

(24:48):
time for tuning skis. So it's all very structured and
in a way that you know, we're trying to optimize performance.
And then you get to college, as you said, and
it's like, Okay, what what do I need to prioritize.
I don't have time to do an hour stretch every day,
and so I think that was really helpful for me
in realizing I can still you know, perform and compete

(25:08):
at a high level without getting eight hours of sleep
and without you know, having an hour long stretching routine.
And I think it was good to figure out what
I needed to prioritize to still still compete at a
high level without you know, feeling like I needed to
be doing all these little things and that that was
gonna you know, it does make a difference, but it's
you're able. In my opinion, you know, I think you

(25:30):
see a bunch of college skiers who are able to
compete at a really high level, you know, without having.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
A lot of time to do all the little things.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Absolutely, and on top of all the little things that
popped up you mentioned a few times, you had a
number of different injuries that also popped up throughout your
ski career, and some of them were a little more
than just little things. Like I feel like a lot
of times when I talk with ski racers, there's this
expectation that injury is going to occur, but typically it's
just like minor stuff, like you're definitely going to lose

(26:00):
a few toenails during your ski racing career, and your
feet are probably not going to be the things that
you want to show everyone on the beach in the summertime.
That way, It's just kind of a side effect of
the sport that way. But there's been some really gruesome
ski injuries that I've heard about, from skis slicing through
it bands, to compartment syndrome, to acls, and so many

(26:21):
different things that way. For those listening, what has your
kind of personal experience with injury and the sport of
skiing looked like that way, and how were you able
to overcome all of those things.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, my first injury was pretty early on.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
I was eleven. I think I was skiing speed and
I straddled. So straddling is where one ski goes on
one side of the gate and the other ski goes
on the other. So I straddled a super g gate
going like probably fifty miles an hour wouldn't recommend, and
my leg.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Just hyper extended.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
So I ended up like fracturing my tibial plateau and
damaging my growth, which was the real concern because I
was still young and growing. So I was off snow
for I think that whole season. But I was young,
you know, it was one of those things where I
was like, okay, like I'll just go back to school
and you know, be with my friends. And but I
think it was, you know, an early realization of wow,

(27:17):
it's just one of those split second things that can happen,
and you know, it changes your season. And then I
had a good gap where I didn't have, you know,
any significant injuries as you mentioned, like loose my toenails
every season that would happen. And then starting in it
was in high school when I was at Burke, probably
my sophomore year. I was a really avid runner, like

(27:39):
I ran a lot growing up, and I loved running.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
In high school.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
It was like my escape in my time when I
could just clear my head, and I started having like
foot drop so I couldn't pick up like my toe
basically when I was running during our fall training. And
then by the time I gone snow, I was having
just mere like nerve pain in my shins and h

(28:05):
was really struggling to ski. It was one of those
things where I would hit a bump and I would
just immediately go out of the course because the pain
was so sharp and I was also experiencing like a
lot of numbness in my feet and my CAFs and
it was oh my gosh, like months of I would
you know, I was in athletic trainer's office every day
and we were trying different things, and I you know,

(28:27):
was going to doctor's appointments. They were they thought maybe
I had like some artery syndromes and stress fractures. Was
thrown out there, and finally, I think actually the Burke
athletic trainer was like, hey, I know like one of
my buddies who had this thing called compartment syndrome, it
might be worth getting tested. And at the time there
was only one other ski racer who actually is on

(28:48):
the Canadian national team now, Belgrenier, who had experienced compartment
syndrome and she had ended up getting surgery fort so
I went. It took forever to be able to get
in for testing. And I'm not sure if you're familiar
with the compartment's in drome testing, but they need to
figure out how to do it in a less painful way.
They basically take like a massive needle and just like
stick it into your shin in calf compartments and measure

(29:11):
the pressures that way. So yeah, I got tested in
Boston and it was they were like, wow, your numbers
are off the chart. And then from there it's kind
of like, okay, what do I do? So I talked
to some surgeons and they were like, yeah, it's kind
of fifty to fifty chants. You know, you get surgery
and it works. So basically they just like release the compartment.

(29:33):
And I, at the same time was finishing up a
season which ended up being really good, which was shocking
to me because I was also dealing with my shins
and I had like sixty race starts that year or something.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
It was nuts.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
So at the end of the season, I had a
national team invitation and I had just gotten my compartments
in drome diagnosis. But I needed to meet like injury
clearance to accept the team nomination. So if I got surgery,
I wouldn't meet that clearance. Uh, And so ultimately I
had to decide, like do I get surgery for the
shins and you know kind of move forward to that
and you know, decline a national team up invitation. And

(30:11):
it was it was a tough decision, like that had
been my like life, you know, my childhood dream was
to ski on the national team and compete in the Olympics,
and so I think it was a real moment for
me where I was like, am I going to be
able to ski at the level I want to ski
at with this injury? And ultimately I decided that I
could not, and so I went ahead and I got

(30:33):
the surgery. It was super successful, and I yeah, I
didn't have any real issues with my compartment syndrome.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
After that, there were a bunch of.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
People in the sport who, like, years after I went through,
it started to you know, it started to pop up.
I think like five of my friends at this point
have had compartment syndrome diagnosis. So there's something going on.
It's you know, very common in Nordic skiing, but there's
some theory out there that maybe like the tightness of
the boots or just how much run training we do.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
So yeah, that was compartment syndrome.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
And then by the time I got to college, I
hadn't had injury for I guess it would have been
two years.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
And then at the end of our COVID.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Season, it was the last race of the year and
I was skiing at Burke, actually my home mountain, and
in like a second run, it was like kind of
spring conditions, totally user air though I high sided, which
in skiing is where you like your outside ski catches
up and you kind of like flip around in the air,
and I landed on my head initially and went unconscious.

(31:37):
I think I was unconscious for like five minutes, but
in the crash, like tumbled and ended up breaking my tibia,
not my phibia, fibula which hung in there somehow, and
then recovered from that, which was a whole thing crazy
what modern medicine can do though, with like rods in
your leg and then you can just walk like a
week later, and was coming back from that injury. I

(31:59):
was three days on snow and I did the exact
same thing to my left leg, so I'm now very symmetrical.
But yeah, it was quite the injury saga at the
end of my career for sure.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
That's quite a robust experience with injuries, for lack of
a better way to put up my goodness. And it's
interesting because I feel like anytime I talk with skiers,
the knee injuries come up, whether that's tibia or acls
or cartilage things, or in your case literally a fractured
growth plate and a fractured tibial plateau that way, Like

(32:33):
it's crazy to think about the kind of things that
come up that way, and the compartment syndrome comes up
significantly less often for me. However, to your point, there's
something going on there, and I don't think we fully
understand it. I've had several conversations with surgeons I know
that specialize in the foot and ankle that do fasciatomies

(32:54):
for compartment syndrome, and they can't fully understand it either.
I mean, there's some to your point on the testing
that are doing fasciotomies now without testing because they're like, well,
you know, if you base a diagnosis based on their
symptoms and based on some of the different things that
they're you know, presenting with, like it's going to show
up positive. We're ninety nine point nine percent sure, So

(33:15):
why are we going to put someone through this traumatic
experience of like you said, you know, testing the pressures
of their compartments. And some of them even order the
pressures to be measured at rest and with exertion because
they want to see like, hey, you know, what does
it do when we actually exert ourselves, so usually running
on a treadmill or something like that. So now you're
not just getting it done once, but you're getting it

(33:36):
done multiple times, and also running in there as well,
because you know not you know, that wasn't just enough
to have it done once or twice that way. So
it's certainly a traumatic thing to get it assessed. But
to the point that you made, there's definitely something going
on with it, and we don't fully understand the diagnosis.
We don't fully understand what to do from a surgical

(33:58):
standpoint either, because, like you mentioned, the research is very
clear that we're still fifty to fifty with our outcomes.
And that's ultimately what I've seen clinically as well. Half
the people that get the surgery, they're great, they're you know,
cases like yours. The other half are people that literally
get a second fascioto me or a third one because
it scarred in too much and they redeveloped their symptoms again.

(34:21):
And until we like spend a little bit more time
researching this and understanding it, I feel like we're ultimately
just going to continue to estimates at best and do
what we've always done. But I can't help but wonder
if we could be doing something more, if we could
be doing something better. And to your point, obviously the
tightness of the ski boots I could certainly see kind

(34:41):
of contributing to this. But I would also say, just
in general, the lifestyle shift that I've seen amongst some
of the different skiers to the point where all they
do now is ski. Like when I was growing up,
like we skied in the winter, but we also played
indoor soccer, and then we'd played baseball in the spring,
and then we played outdoor soccer and the summertime. You know,
we grew up in like Fingerlake area of New York.

(35:04):
So it's like we're water skiing, we're wakeboarding, we're doing
all these like crazy different things versus now, Like there's
times when I talk with skiers that all they do
is ski period, Like there's no other physical development, even
to the point you made on running, A lot of
them don't even bother to run anymore because they're like, well,
why do I need to? I'm a skier. So I
think that there's a lot of variables and factors in
play around that compartment syndrome kind of conundrum. For lack

(35:28):
of a better way to put it, and I can't
wait to see what work gets done to try and
shed some light on this very cloudy situation that a
lot of people kind of find themselves in that way,
having your kind of knowledge basis on the psychological side
right now. I know we've talked before in sports psychology
is not necessarily something you see in your future, but

(35:49):
just reflecting back on your own injuries and kind of
the psychological turmoil that that takes when you're going from
literally skiing every day you want to in the winter
to hey, my season's over because this injury happened. Reflecting back,
what kind of things were challenging for you from like
a mental and psychological standpoint that way, And what advice

(36:09):
do you offer to other individuals who maybe are in
similar situations where you know, hey, maybe it's middle a
ski season, injury happens, season ends early, not on their terms.
How did they go about best navigating that? In your mind?

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, that's a good question, I mean, and I think
that the injury rate in athletes is so high and
so it's not talked about enough. You know, what to
do from a mental standpoint, because everyone experiences it, you know,
in their own way, But I think there's a lot
of common things that come up and whiskeying in particular,
and I think I was lucky in my first my

(36:43):
first two injuries, the first one being you know, a
chronic injury. In the second one, I was unconscious, so
I actually don't have really any memory of it. But
I think there is this kind of flashback situation that
happens when people have these really intense crashes and when
you're back on skis, like and Car talked about this,
I think a little bit too. But you know, you

(37:05):
I remember for a while after my second like break,
I would just kind of see myself like going into
a turn, and like that feeling would kind of pop
back into my head or that visual and so I
think there is you know, some of that like imagery
stuff that comes up and getting beyond that, and I
think like in the mindfulness space has been something that

(37:26):
is kind of I saw at the end of my
career like really come into to the sport and you know,
coaches using that in sports psychologists, and I think there
are a lot of principles within that, like both in
you know, the imagery side of things, but that like
rational acceptance of you know, a like I'm injured now
and I can't change this. There's nothing that I can

(37:47):
do to you know, reverse what has happened. And then
I also think, like from a pain standpoint, like a
lot of people deal with some you know, pretty norly
pain after surgery or you know, when you're doing pet
and stuff, and I think kind of like putting being
able to put yourself in a headspace where you're not
resisting that and you've kind of like come to terms

(38:08):
with with that pain is is another aspect that I
think mindfulness is really helpful for. But yeah, personally for me,
that was a big thing that I found to be
very helpful.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
I also was the type.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Of person who just was like going to push every
limit that I possibly could in PT and the timeline
for getting back to snow uh And I know, you know,
probably a lot of athletes have a similar experience. And
I was like, if you know, the doctor says eight weeks,
it'll be three weeks. And so I think, you know,

(38:43):
looking back on it, I I did have a feeling
going into my you know, return from my first leg
break that I you know wasn't super strong, Like I
was like, this is the least strong that I've ever
felt getting back onto snow, and I had been cleared
by my surgeon and stuff, But I to this day,
I still wonder like, oh, if I had been a

(39:03):
little bit stronger coming back from my first leg break,
would the second one have happened? And you know, looking
back on the video and everything, it was a freak accident.
But I do think, you know, for people who are
going through injury, it's it's tough to have that like
foresight in Okay, looking back, you know, am I going
to regret this decision? You know? Should I spend more
hours in the gym? Am I pushing it a little

(39:25):
bit too much? But I think you know, ultimately you
know your body, like you have that sense and that intuition,
and I think you know, the combination of listening to
what you're feeling and listening to the advice of you know,
the pets that you're working with and the surgeons and
stuff I found. You know, that's that happy medium in

(39:47):
between you know, knowing when to push and also you know,
taking advice from doctors and pts seriously, but also you
know they're not in your body and sometimes they don't
specialize in your sport. So I think that combination of
advocating for yourself but also like listening and being open

(40:07):
to the advice is really important.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
I one hundred percent agree with that. That is great insights.
And as you mentioned, you know a lot of times
sports med providers don't always understand your sport and what
you're feeling. And I think this is an area where
I always advocate for people to literally interview whoever their
team is going to be before they start the process
with them, Like, hey, ask your ORTHO questions, ask your

(40:33):
PT questions, ask anyone who's going to be involved in
your care all the questions you want and clear them
up from the start. And if something is not comfortable
or sitting right to you, it's okay to go out
and interview other ones. It's okay to get second opinions,
or some have even gotten third opinions, and that is
perfectly okay. And again that applies to anything from your

(40:53):
PT selection to your surgeon selection and beyond. I find
a lot of times athletes come to me and they say, well,
I went to some place because they told me they
were nice people, and other people recommended them because they're nice,
and then they start going there and realize they have
no knowledge about their sport and they have no plans
to get them back to sport. They're just going to

(41:14):
kind of do what they've always done and treat them
with the same ten to twelve exercises that they give everyone.
And it's unfortunate that situations like that occur, but as
you mentioned, we can avoid those, and we can prevent
those the majority of the time. And on top of that,
I think that there's something empowering that comes from you
taking charge of your situation when stuff like this happens,

(41:34):
because obviously, when injury occurs, the locus of control is
kind of ripped from you. Right, Hey, I can't go
out and ski any time I want. Now, I'm waiting
on a timeline. I'm waiting on someone else to tell
me when I can, and so on that way. But
if I can take the ability to select who I
work with and I can work with them, not you know,

(41:55):
them just telling me what to do, but work with
them to develop a plan that I understand, that may sense,
that has a tiered progression that's going to get me
back to sport. At least in my mind. Mentally, I'm
going to be a lot more comfortable about that. I'm
a lot more confident about it because now I have
a seat at the table, I've got stake in the process,
as opposed to I'm just being told what to do

(42:16):
by someone who was recommended because they're nice. And again,
you know, I say it because I've heard that story
too often, and it's it's not to necessarily jab at
those types of clinicians that way. But at the same time,
you have to understand if you're working with someone, what
their goals are and how you can best provide for
them as a person. And I think the more we

(42:36):
kind of humanize this entire process, the better off we're
going to be, not just from the physical side, but
obviously from the mental and psychological as well. And I
would say just as important as choosing your PT and
surgeon and so on. That way, if you are going
to involve a mental health provider in that process, which
I highly recommend, make sure it's the right mental health provider,

(42:57):
because there's a difference between someone like yourself who's going
to school for years and years and years and getting
a PhD in psychology and someone who took a weekend
course to be able to offer some advice. And I
think that knowing the difference between someone who has that
additional training and insights and even some research experience as
well versus someone who just took the weekend crash course

(43:19):
is obviously very essential as far as deciding who you
want involved in your team.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
I think you bring up a great point too, and
that you know, as athletes, sometimes we don't realize that,
you know, you can kind of shop around for your
you know, mental performance coaches or your pets or whatever,
and it's not it's typically not the situation where you know,
you work with one PT and that's the person that
you have to work with, and it's it's the same
thing and in the mental health space. And I think

(43:46):
a lot of people don't realize that in general, is
that a lot of clinicians and you know, sports psychologists
will offer like a free consultation. And I tell my
friends this all the time. I'm like, if you are,
you know, you're looking to work with a sports psychologist,
you should ask to to you know, have a free
fifteen minute call with them and see because oftentimes, you know,

(44:07):
a you're usually you're going to get a feel pretty quickly.
As to whether or not you know that it's going
to be a good match and a good fit. But
I also think you know, as you were discussing before,
making sure that you're on the same page about goals
and that you feel like you have some control in
the process, and that you know they're listening to your
needs and not just kind of directing the the I

(44:29):
don't know, the session or you know, whatever experience that
you're trying to get.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Out of it.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Absolutely no. I think that's a great point. And it's
interesting because I've talked with a lot of athletes who
have no issues shopping around when it comes to the
athletic where athletes are where that they decide to you know,
throw on for the day. Maybe some like Lulu, some
like Nike, whatever it is. That way, they have no
issues shopping around. And even when it comes to equipment.
I know we talked about this before, but I've tried

(44:55):
so many different skis that way, and it's like, for
a long time I thought I was married to blizz skis,
and I love Blizzard skis. But you know, after the binding,
the marker binding, which we could have a whole separate
discussion on my thoughts on binding sometimes, you know, when
that gave out on me on the top of veil,
I was like, shoot, I need to pivot and find
something now. And it was like, well, head was the

(45:16):
best option, and now I freaking love head skis. So
it's like, you know, sometimes you do need to kind
of have stuff experience or happen to you in order
to like get that lesson of Hey, it's okay to
kind of look around and kind of try a few
different things and not necessarily be married to one philosophy
or one way of doing things. Sometimes the best thing

(45:37):
for you kind of changes, right. You know, there's a
quote that I like about how you know a man
is never going to walk through the same river twice
because it's not the same river, but he's also not
the same man. Right. The same is true when it
comes to the equipment that we use and the providers
that we surround ourselves with. Right, the person that might
be the best provider for us when we're eleven might
not be the best provider for us when we're twenty five.

(45:59):
It's not to say that they're a bad provider. That's
just to say that we're different, Our needs are different,
and we're going to go with someone else this time.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, absolutely, I think that shows up too. And the
injury aspect to you just reminded me. Like I think
for people returning to their sport, and this was my
experience in particular, there is this sense that you want
to get back to what you were doing before, who
you were before, that the level of the athlete you
were before, and in skiing it's often this feeling. You know,

(46:28):
you want to rEFInd that feeling. And I think for
me that was it took me a while to realize
like I am no longer that same skier, Like my
body is different now, I move in a different way,
you know, like mentally, I've gone through stuff, and so
I think it took me a long time, but eventually
it was, you know, really what you know allowed me

(46:50):
to be successful towards the end of my career was
you know, having this mindset shift of Okay, I shouldn't
be chasing this previous feeling that I have. You know,
I'm looking for how I can use you know, what
I currently have and the skills and the way my
body moves and functions to you know, try to find
a different feeling that is still fast but I think

(47:11):
that we kind of get stuck on this. Oh, I
just want to go back to the way things were
like when I was at the peak of my career,
and ultimately things are things are changing too much to to.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Hit that target.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
So with that in mind, what does skiing look like
for you currently? Breathe?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah, I am skiing probably once or twice a year,
so it's it's been a big shift. There aren't too
many mountains out in Michigan where I'm living currently, but
I try and get back to the East Coast or
back to Colorado or Utah once a year and have
a fun ski weeker, a fun ski day. But yeah,
as you said, it comes back naturally when you've been

(47:50):
doing it for that long. I feel like I could
put all my skis anywhere at any time and it
all comes back to me. So that's that's something I'll
always enjoy and always love.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Would have been your favorite places to skia or any
kind of mountains or resorts that you recommend to people
a lot?

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh? Yeah, I mean anywhere in Colorado. In my opinion,
it's hard to beat. I'm probably biased because I grew
up there I love. Yeah, I mean I grew up
skiing in the Vail area.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Love that mountain.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
I also spent some years in Crested Butte, which has
some really cool like big mountain skiing and kind of
gnarlier train And then I would say just anywhere in Italy.
The year I spent over in Europe, we were based
in Potsaiti Fassa, and there's just like that whole Dolomite
region is super, super beautiful. Would highly recommend if people

(48:41):
can make it over to Europe.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, that's amazing. And for people who you know, I've
heard a little bit about kind of what you're doing
now PhD work and all that way, what does the
future look like for you? Would you mind kind of
painting a picture what the next few years may or
may not entail for you?

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Brie, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
I just finished my first year in my PhD program.
Out of it's gonna be five to six years, so
I have a long road ahead still. But yeah, it's
it's been fun. It's like a mix of class work,
research and then also seeing clients. So this fall semester
I'll start working with kids and families. That's kind of

(49:23):
my trajectory that I'm going in right now is working
with young kids and parents, and specifically we're kind of
in like a low resource area, so you know, working
with kids who have experienced trauma and yeah, kind of
are you know, typically wouldn't have access to therapy. That's
one of the cool things about these PhD training programs

(49:45):
is because we you know, don't really know what we're
doing or we're being trained, we can provide, like in
our learning, can provide low cost services for the community
around us. So that's a cool way to make an impact.
But yeah, I think eventually I'll be working practicing as
a clinician, working with parents and families.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
That's awesome, And it sounds like from what we've discussed
so far, your background in skiing is setting you up
on a course for success in relation to that work
with little kids and families and so on. That way
is I feel like you've got so many different experiences
on your own end, and really, you know, on top
of that, just undergoing your first serious injury at the
age of eleven. That way, i feel like you've got

(50:26):
this like unrivaled ability to relate to individuals in similar situations.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
That way, Yeah, yeah, I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
I've always really enjoyed working with kids and knew that
was going to be something that I wanted to do,
you know, in some aspect in my career. And I
thought about sports psychology for a while, but I think
I needed a break from being like that.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
In the ski world and immersed in it.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
So you never know, maybe I'll come back and dabble
in it later on. But yeah, I think that's that's
the plan for the near future.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
One hundred percent. You know, as you say that, I
think of this word that gets thrown out a lot,
a phrase I should say, burnout, And as you mentioned
earlier with early sports specialization, that's something a lot of
people raise concerns about that way. Is that something that
you see a lot in the skiing world or is
that something that you ever felt yourself kind of on

(51:18):
the skiing side of things that way where you're like,
you know what, like I put in like fifteen years,
like I'm just getting tired of this. I want something new,
And if so, like, how did you kind of respond
to that approach that?

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yeah, Yeah, for sure, Yeah, I mean I think I've
kind of seen I don't know if I have, you know,
the perspective on other sports, but within the sport of skiing,
you definitely see burnout happening.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
I think commonly.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Kids go through high school and then they're kind of like, Okay,
this is it, this isn't for me. You know that
the little kid dream that every skier has is.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
You know, to compete in the Olympics, to be on
the national team.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
And I think realistically, like the levels of meeting that goal,
it's so it's so challenging and so hard. And I'm
sure that's the same way in other sports, but I
think kind of when people get to a point where
they realize that they're not on the trajectory to reach
that goal, it's tough, especially when you know you've specialized
so young and like maybe you haven't developed that intrinsic

(52:18):
motivation and so really what's keeping you going is this,
like you know, external reward, and whether that's like feedback
from your coaches or like your competitive performance like winning
races or you know, making you know these benchmarks and milestones,
making national team criteria.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
When you don't have those.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
You know, external inputs, I think for kids who never
developed that you know, internal reward and doing it for
yourself because you love it, that can be really challenging,
and I think that's when when burnout happens. And I think,
you know, it also happens naturally, just as those sport
ebbs and flows. I definitely had years where I was,
you know, feeling really over it, and I think, you know,

(52:56):
talking to my friends, everyone has those moments.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
It's just such a frustrating sport.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
And like you hit a perfect turn, you know, once
every five hundred turns you do, and and that can
be that can be really hard and really frustrating to
you know, stay in it and trust the process and
trust that it's all going to work out. Because when
you travel, you know, on a seven hour flight to
Europe and you know, you have a week of racing

(53:21):
over there and you like dn F every race and
you go home, it's like, wow, like why am I
doing this? It Really it's tough. But I think when
you have that, you know, you remember your why you
have that, that purpose in the sport. I think that's
really what keeps you.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Going absolutely, and that takes time to develop, right. It's
not something at least in my own experience, it's not
something that I was necessarily taught growing up. It's like, hey,
you know, this is why you ski, This is you know,
how you find your why and your reason to drive
you forward. It just kind of comes with time and experience,
and I think that's something that you know, we could

(53:59):
possibly have a converse about this in the future. But
a few years ago I did a podcast with a
gentleman by the name of Rob Butler, and he talked
about how we progress athletes from sport year after year
after year, and how a lot of times we lack
a coaching framework to do so. And yet the school
system is perfect or imperfect as you might think it

(54:20):
to be, has a framework of, hey, you have to
hit certain milestones and benchmarks before you move to the
next grade. And I almost kind of wonder in the
back of my mind if there's room for something about
that personal development side within the kind of progression of
sport where it's like, hey, look, we need to find
a way to help kids to realize how they set

(54:42):
their own values, how they define what's important to them
in sport, what they want their future to look like,
and so on that way, because as you mentioned, I
think a lot tend to find themselves in places where
that stuff is just told to them as opposed to
them deciding it for themselves that way.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, absolutely think I think you see a lot of that,
and some of that is a maturity thing and an
experienced thing.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
You know.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
It takes an injury or just like a shift in
in kind of that reward system that's happening right I'm
relating it to psychology because that's where my brain is
right now. But it takes that shift for you to
realize like, oh wait, I'm not feeling the same way
I was, and you know, why is that? And I
think that kind of happened to me in college. All
of a sudden, I wasn't you know, getting I wasn't

(55:28):
winning as much, and I wasn't you know, receiving these
external motivators. And it took it took me a second
to realize, like why why am I feeling differently?

Speaker 3 (55:38):
What shifted?

Speaker 2 (55:39):
And I think, you know, the earlier you can, you
can help kids kind of realize like why why are
you doing this? Are you doing this because you like winning?
Are you doing this because you like to be around
your friends, you like the speed, you like working hard
towards a goal, and obviously everyone, you know, everyone likes winning.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Hopefully, if you're in the sport.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
But I think you know, having that in combination with
you know, these other intrinsic factors is really important. And
helping kids realize that younger and younger is is important
because otherwise it, you know, you have to discover it
on your own when you have these experiences.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
And you know, absolutely no, Bri, I could not agree more.
And I realized we could probably talk about this stuff
all day long, whether that be skiing your own journey
and experience is psychological influences and factors and so on
that way. There's just so much to this world that way.
Is there anything that we missed in our discussion or
anything else that you want to bring up that we
haven't had the chance to do so so far?

Speaker 3 (56:34):
I don't think so. No. Yeah, thank you for having me.
This was really nice to chat for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
And for people who want to find out more about you,
maybe keep on the lookout for some PhD publications coming
in about five to ten years. Where can they find
you all at? Do you have like an online presence
or that sort of thing, or maybe you're like me
and you still use your third grade MySpace? I mean,
where can they find you out online?

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yeah, good question.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
I am a fairly regular LinkedIn poster just Bree Trudeau
and then also instagram. My instagram is Bree dot Trudeau,
and I guess this is super weird. I've never like
pitched my research space, but I am on Google scholar
if you want to look at articles coming out. We
have a couple articles that I've been on that I

(57:20):
have recently been published that are exciting. So yeah, those
are kind of the main avenues there.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
That's awesome. We'll link to all of that in the
description below. That way, if you didn't quite catch it,
you can just click there and see that see everything
that Bree is up to. Brie, this was amazing. I
really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for everything.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Thank you for having me