Brewsers #46- Wim Bens from Lakewood Brewing

Today, we talk to Wim Bens from Lakewood Brewing in Garland, TX. We talk about everything from his background in brewing to them adding food to the brewery to what you can look forward to for this year’s Lion’s Share. Follow us on instagram and twitter at Brewserspod. Like, share, review, enjoy and cheers. Sign up for our newsletter! #brewsers #brewserspod #DrinkLocal

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Episode Transcript

(00:18):
Welcome to Brewisers, the podcast aboutdeer, coffee, booze and bruisers.
I am your host, Roddy Johnand today we talk to Wim Benz from
Lakewood Brewing Company out here in Garland, Texas. We talk about everything from
his background in brewing to them addingfood to the brewery so that you can
eat and drink at the same time. Also what you can look forward to

(00:39):
this year for the Lion's Share.This is absolutely one of my favorite breweries
here in the metroplex. Lakewood Brewinghas been open for over ten years now.
You hear it in the interview.You're about to hear in the interview,
So just check them out if you'reever here in the DFW area.
But you don't want to hear frommy mouth, you want to hear from
his. Here is Wim Benz withLakewood Brewing Company. I want to welcome

(01:15):
to the show whim Bends with LakewoodBrewing. How are you doing today,
sir good So, as I readyou were born in Belgium, moved to
North Texas when you're around seven,What all did you learn from living and
visiting back there? Because I readin some interviews that you took quite a
bit from being over there, butalso when you're up to seven years old,
how much did you really retain andwhat did you take in? So

(01:38):
I guess curious, what all didyou get into when you're growing up in
Belgium and then when visiting back andforth, what did you I guess take
from Because brewing Bereau there's for centuries, so brewing beer's kind of a big
deal in building. Yeah, yeah, you know, from a from a
beer perspective. I think the thingthat kind of stuck with me from not

(02:00):
just living there till I was sevenyears old, but then you know,
going back and visiting for a monthor two over the summer, visit family
and stuff. Um was the wasthe just the overall beer culture, right,
which was way different there it wasin the US in the mid eighties.
Yeah, so you know, atleast the mid nineties. Yeah,

(02:23):
yeah, so you know when Iwas going back and forth, Um,
you know, beer beers just uh, it's a big thing, but it's
not it's not that big of adeal. I guess could is way you
could put it. Um, youknow, there's Belgium has tons of different
beers, right, uh, andtons of different breweries, and most of

(02:43):
them are very very very tiny ofcourse. UM So for a country the
size of Massachusetts, with um thepopulation of roughly a little bit more than
a greater metroplex, I mean,they had a little you know, three
four, five, six hundreds,right, I'm not sure what that number
is now, but um and theneight MBEV started buying up a lot of

(03:06):
dose in the mid nineties is whenthat really kind of started. So but
all that to say, beer wasbeer was always around. Everyone kind of
had their favorite. Um. AndI think, as as an ex pat,
I guess you could say that theBelgian Belgians are very proud of their

(03:29):
brewing heritage, but that doesn't meanthey know a lot about the earth fair
enough. Yeah, so I thinkit. I think that they kind of
take it for granted. You know, it's like, oh, yeah,
you know, we're yeah, we'reawesome at making beer, you know what's
right? And then like, what'swhat's your favorite kind? Oh? I
like, you know, I likeStella. You know, there's there's not

(03:52):
I think, you know, thehistory of beer in Europe really went on
to influenced craft beer right right atthe very beginning here and then in the
last I think twenty years, it'skind of been reintroduced on the other side
of the pond. So it's like, here's here's the base beer of Germany

(04:15):
and Belgium in England, let's takeit to America. America's make it bigger,
stronger, better, whatever. Andnow it's getting exported back and you
see, you see a lot morebreweries in Europe making I pas and you
know, really strong stouts and stylesthat really are an American invention, true,

(04:35):
which but wouldn't exist without the initialinfluence of European years. Right,
So it's a fun boomerang situation.Yeah. I mean, you can do
the same thing with music, andI guess totally, yeah, I guess
anything really that you have that corestart and then it goes off somewhere else,
becomes something completely different or not better, but again everyone's whatever. And

(04:58):
then it goes back and I'm like, oh, they're doing it this way.
Let's do it this way, right, because we've been doing it for
centuries. Why let's take their newthings and make it with our old stuff.
Yeahstly, So everyone talks about howyou you know, went back and
forth at Belgium and obviously we justtalked about the long history of Belgium when
it comes to their beer. Yeah, where did your love from beer come
from? That was definitely a spark, okay. You know, Um,

(05:23):
when I turned twenty one, Iwent to It was at midnight on a
Sunday and the Flying Saucer around Greenvillewas still around and so you know,
this is a way back when.So I went there because I was like,
I want to not that I hadn'tbeen drinking in college, you know,
Um, yeah, no one,no one, but I was like,

(05:47):
I want to buy my first legalbeer. Um, and I wanted
to be a Belgium beer. Iwas like, okay, well where can
I find a Belgium beer? Yeah, close to me. So, and
you know, back then Flying Saucer, hundred beers on tap, um,
most of it was important. Therereally wasn't like this is in ninety nine.

(06:10):
There were there were the big houses, right, So you had Sierra
Nevada, you had Anchor Steam,you had Um Pyramid, Red Hook,
um, you know all the youknow, all the all the sort of
initial wave craft brewers from the eightiesand nineties. Um, those were represented.

(06:31):
But then you know, to fillout the rest of that wall.
You needed a lot of imports becauselocals didn't exist exactly. So I go
there midnight. I think I gotI probably got a maretzu chimay and then
something probably something a little bit lighter. But at the end of it.

(06:55):
But that's you know that that wasreally great because I was like, Okay,
now I have a place where Ican and go enjoy the beers that
I grew up with, or atleast beers that remind me of my trips
to Belgium. Yeah. Um,So as that went on, I'm like,
well, I'm gonna do my I'mgonna get my plate, so I'm
gonna get my hundred beers, right, so that really is a hundred.

(07:15):
Back then I thought it was twohundred. That was one hundred, two
hundred, and I think it wasa hundred. Okay, I don't have
a place. It was a while, yeah, twenty five years ago,
um sou. But that forced meto try a bunch of different beers,
true, right, And I reallystarted liking the American craft beers that were
available. Yeah, you know,even even though they were unlimited supply,

(07:41):
um and that kind of you know, I and then I always had an
appreciation of of of American craft beerssort of in my early twenties. Um,
and then buddy of mine got ahomebrewing kid and we tried that it
was a mister beer and it wasawful this story and keep hearing yeap,

(08:01):
that's awful. But you know,that's like the that's like the litmus tests
for brewers. You know, whetheryou like the project or not, whether
whether you like it or not,you liked something about the experience that that
hooked you in. And um,and I did like the idea of you
know, I don't know if it'sbecause I was in my early twenties and

(08:22):
you know, not making a lotof money and just wanted to drink on
the cheap. Um, it's alwaysalways a factor, right, always.
But I really, I really likethe creativity that you couldn't have with true
making beers. I like the sortof immediate ish gratification of you make something,

(08:46):
you baby it for a couple ofweeks, and then you get to
drink it and consume it. Yeah. I mean that's that's very satisfying.
And it's all yours and it's allyours and you made it. Yeah.
So um, that kind of youknow, opened up, Open up the
barn, door, opened up theflagates. UM really getting into the hobby.
And I had, you know,my late twenties. I had a

(09:07):
small house down in East Dallas,but I had a garage. So that
allowed me to kind of up thehome brewing game big time. You know,
there's only so much you can doin an apartment, true, Yeah,
yeah, you're on a semmage spaceand you know, so many refrigerators
and all that. So yeah,so went went hog wild in the garage
for a while. UM started enteringcompetitions, did really good in competitions,

(09:33):
and decided to quit my job andUM start down the beer path. Yeah.
So yeah, so I talked toCraig over at Vector and he said,
you guys were working together and youwould bring some beer to work.
Ye be like, okay, tryto see what you think. And obviously

(09:54):
you know it worked out pretty well. Yeah, what was for you that
final? All right, I'm gonnaI'm to jump either, I'm cheating around
getting off the pot. What wasthe final? That was kind of self
imposed? So I was I wasworking for an advertising agency downtown and I've
been there for I think eight ornine years. Sar and I you know,

(10:16):
it was a great job. Theirbenefits were really good. I had
an amazing amount of vacation, andI had started the American Brewers Guild Brewing
and Engineering course and that was allremote study, which was great. So

(10:37):
kept my day job, went home, you know, twenty hours a week
of studying and doing all that stuff. And then at the end of it,
to finish the certification, you hadto do a five week apprenticeship.
Wow. Had to be contiguous,so you couldn't just do it on the

(10:58):
weekends, right, it had tobe a five week immersive internship or apprenticeship.
And nice, being a little naivewhen it comes to hr things,
I said, well, I gotfive weeks of vacation. I'm just gonna
we're gonna take them off. Shockley, you can't take them all at once.
Yeah. So anyway, I foundmyself myself in the in my manager's

(11:24):
office and they, I mean theyvery kindly gave me an ultimatum. It
wasn't, you know, contentious allthat much, but they gave me an
ultimatum. And they said, hey, look um, you can't take the
five weeks off, so you reallyneed to decide. Need to decide if
you're going to do this beer thingor if if you want to work here,

(11:46):
which in hindsight is completely fair,obviously completely fair. Yeah, like
what was I thinking? Um,hindsight is so M talked to my wife
and she was like, look,you know, let's I don't want you
to have any regrets. If youwant to go do this thing, you

(12:09):
know, we're fine, you canget another job. So the next day
I was like, Hey, I'mgonna do the Griffin so um and uh
yeah. So my last day wasthe day before Christmas in two thousand and
ten, and I started my apprenticeshipat RUM the week after Christmas. Very

(12:35):
nice. So yeah, so Lakewould spun out of Rar. I d
have made that connection. Well,there were not all a whole lot of
places to get in a prayer atthat point. There were literally two.
Yeah, there was Rar and therewas Franconia. Yeah so and RAR was
bigger and I wanted to, youknow, get experienced doing all the things.

(12:58):
So um so yeah, so that'swhere I ended up did my apprenticeship.
Um, it was a great time, made something really great friends doing
that stayed on a little bit longerand uh, the part that I did
leave out was that the day afterI quit my job, we found out

(13:18):
we're pregnant with that first kid.So um yeah, I was like,
hey guys, it's it's really greatto work here, but my pregnant sugar
mama is in Dallas and uh it'sit's about an hour drive. Yeah,
way to do this. So youknow, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and

(13:39):
start something on on our side oftown. Yeah um so yeah, so
we did. So we started sortof getting our plans together, getting a
business plan together, and um,you know, we had our kiddo in
September, and that whole year basicallywas sourcing equation meant and finding a building

(14:01):
and working with all the different citiesthat we were potentially looking at and seeing
sort of you know, what theycouldn't couldn't do for us, or where
we couldn't couldn't put a building orbuy a building. Um. And then
yeah, kiddo was born. Iwas stayed at home to add and m
took him to all the realtor meetingswith me and building inspections and all that,

(14:26):
which is also a great conversation started. Yeah of course, I mean
he was portable, so ye wu um and then we found a building
in the late part of twenty eleven, and then we moved in to our
first building in January to twelve.And where was that building right next door?

(14:46):
Oh? Literally right next door yetye then how did the when did
the expansion happened? So the expansionhappened in twenty We moved into the quote
unquote new building, which is justan extension to the others all the build
Um, we moved into the weopened up the new side, let's put
it that way, um in Marchof fifteenth. Wow. Pretty quick,

(15:09):
Yeah, I mean, not terriblyquick. But so we started and we
sold our first kick in August totwelve. We knew a year later that
we were going to need more space. Wow. And then you know,
we were like, hey, weneed to get plans together. Yeah.
Yeah, all the construction and allthat. So that took another year,
so true. Yeah, And theny'all are happy with this as you are

(15:33):
now? Or do you think goingdown the road you may have to have
another silting? We are, weare. We have plenty of space to
two flex in here. Yeah.No, uh, we you know,
honestly, we probably overbuilt a littlebit. That's not a bad thing,
something to grow into, yeah,something to grow into. But the market
did, and I think that's that'ssomething that a lot of breweries that were

(15:56):
around or started around the time thatwe did, um you know, ultimately
ended up doing and ultimately sometimes bithim in the butt. Yeah. Um.
So you know we uh, wedo have a lot of space.
Um, so that is a plus, but yeah, you got to pay

(16:19):
for that space too. And thenyou know, I mean this was like
twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, there'sno end in sight. We're drawn by
you know, we're grown by onehundred percent every year. And then the
market kind of corrected itself. Youknow, a lot of breweries came in
a lot of small group hups opentwenty fifteen when the law changed for on
premise consumption. So you know,it is what it is. That's that's

(16:44):
the landscape that we live in.True. Um. But yeah, the
days of one hundred percent growth orlonger, for sure, I think for
a lot of people that way.I mean I think maybe I mean,
I'm not speaking for you, butI imagine twenty twenty was maybe one of
the best years that you guys had, not the best year, um,
because we lost half of our Imean, we didn't sell any kegs in

(17:07):
twenty twenty. No fair, okay, I met, Yeah, I didn't
think about the money of the kegs. Yeah, and you know that that's
where you make your margin. Youdon't make it on package. So yeah,
March eighteenth of twenty twenty, whenall the bars got shut down,
we got a call from our distributor. Distributors the following day saying, cancel

(17:29):
our order. Yeah, we'll getback with you. Yeah. So um,
Now, retail did pick up,but not enough to not enough to
make up for the numbers. Nointeresting clothes. Yeah, I just don't
my break would think about cakes.But that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah yeah, and that was halfour volume, you know. True.
So wow. Yeah, twenty twentywas challenging for a lot of different reasons.

(17:53):
But I'm really proud of how wepivoted. Yeah, yeah, you
know that's we We furloughed one person, we kept our entire sales staff on,
kept everybody else on. Um anduh yeah, and we did a

(18:14):
lot of to go business. Yeah, I know, I bought a lot
of beer in twenty twenty together.I'm not doing anything else, just sitting
at here, sitting at home,so you guys have food. Also the
food was that in the old buildingas well or was it just the companion
Food's brand new. We started withfood last summer. Oh yeah, we're
only about we're only about six monthsin on food, so that's been really

(18:38):
great. Yeah, it's a limitedmenu. It's super you know it.
It's just enough, yes, youknow, it's enough to keep you here,
to make you, give you theopportunity to hang out, feed kids,
you know. Um, it's notfour course dining. But but we

(19:00):
we try and use beer and beeror beer ingredients in most of the stuff
that we make, which I thinkis really cool. So it is a
sort of scratch kitchen from from thatperspective. Um, we use beer in
the pup cheese that we make,in the caeso in our we have a
temptreus pulsanic reduction that we put onour fig and a rugla and fig rugla

(19:26):
and pursudo flat bread. So yeah, I mean for being an extremely small
kitchen, and by by small,I mean like less than one hundred and
fifty square feet, um uh,it makes it. You know, we
we make some really good food.So yeah, that's all it's been really

(19:47):
cool. How did the idea toto grow into food come from? We
had that idea prior to twenty twenty, okay, um, and we actually
uh got plans in place and goteverything drawn up and then um, you
know, we're like, hey,pump the brakes. We're not gonna we're
gonna spend this money right now atall. Everything can shut down. They
can't come in here anyway. Um. And then so then last year we

(20:11):
sort of get everything going again andstarted at the beginning of twenty two to
build everything out. And then weadded we added onto our beer garden as
well, shake sales. Um,you know, AstroTurf planters, kids area,
fire pits, lighting we did.We did a lot outside to an

(20:33):
inside, we did we got newfurniture, you know, sort of did
a refresh case, you know,while we put in the kitchen and did
some stuff outside and um, youknow, the goal was really to make
to make the great a destination becausewe are like we're not on any no
one's walking by and stumbling upon us. Like if you're if you're gonna come

(20:56):
visit us, you've you've made You'vemade a conscious decision to google the address
exactly right. So we want tomake sure that when people get here that
they have a great experience that theycan spend, you know, spend an
afternoon here, you know, bringthe kids, let them play outside,
bring the dogs. We have youknow, we're dog friendly outside as well,

(21:17):
and we have food. So itmakes it the complete package. Now,
yeah, one stop show. Yeah, it is beautiful outside. It
gives me very things I want todo in my backyard. Like I brought
my girlfriend here for the anniversary ofthis past year and we had just bought
the house and we were looking outthere and we were like, this is
like the planners is what we wantto do because we also saw it at
in New Orleans or Jonny Mash Yeah, Joni Mash, no meal. They

(21:41):
have the same kind of planners withthe plants and everything, and they're like,
Okay, that's what we want todo. And then the astro turf
looks really good and the lights.We're all like, okay, you take
pictures and figure out how star backthere. Now, speaking of you mentioned
that you're not exactly on the mapfor a lot of people when it comes
to walking or whatever. Have youthought about having a separate tap room somewhere

(22:02):
else in the Metroplex, maybe onthe west side. Um. We we
play with the idea from time totime. We've never really put pen to
paper on it. Okay, Um, you know we have so much opportunity
here for you know, we haveso much space. We do a lot
of private events stuff here. Um, you know, corporate events, weddings,

(22:25):
bar mitzvah's, you know, youname it, you name it,
we can do it. Um.So we're we're really trying to make sure
that we focus here. Yeah.And then when we're when we feel comfortable
or when we feel like there's reallya need for that, yeah, um,
then we will look at that.But right now, you know,

(22:45):
we'll keep all our eggs in onebasket for that. Yeah. As someone
who loses the Forworth, I've justhad had to ask sure, Sure,
I love coming out here, butagain it is it's yeah, it's a
truck, it's not That's so.What people I don't think that live in
the Metroplex realize is how massive itis. Like I was at Siren Rock
last week and it is over anhour from there to my house and Fort

(23:07):
Worth and that's not even for thiswest You can go for the Metroplex,
and then it goes about as muchnorth as we'll say Sherman, We'll say
nine o threes maybe the time atsome point in Oklahoma for whatever reason,
we part of North Texas. Andthen Waco is creeping up to being the
most southern point you can do inNorth Texas, which is still like an
hour or more with Yeah. Soit's like it's not done growing because people

(23:29):
are living in cities like Argyle,which is just a fun sign you saw
on the wit A Denton, Yeah, but now people actually live there,
right, and it's so it's justso crazy and people who don't live here
don't realize it. They're like,oh, Dallas and go to Fort Worth,
it's like thirty minutes. I'm like, nope, no, sh is
not Well, it depends on whatpart of Thas and what part of Yes,
if you're going to like most westto the most east, maybe yeah,
then you got thirty minutes. Alsoif you don't hit track exactly.

(23:52):
So, but it's it's just asthings people don't realize when it comes to
the Metroplex in general. Sure,I like to explain that to others.
Um So when it comes to yourbeers, your Temptress has obviously been one
of the most popular your variances.You guys do all kinds of fun variances,
and it seems like you guys arehaving a lot of fun messing with

(24:14):
that. One is that they're onethat's your favorite variance, and then there's
one that you guys just haven't quitenailed yet that you've been trying to Um.
Man, that's a good question.Um, I mean yeah, I
mean obviously we're the brewery known knownfor Temptress. Uh. And we do
have a lot of fun with ourseductions series. Um. I think my

(24:37):
favorite seduction series beer. You knowwhat I don't drink a whole time?
I got kids man. Um hmm, good question. Well, um,
you know what I really liked Raspberrydid when we did Raspberry Um. And

(24:57):
I think that that's early the Belgiumin me that likes fruited deers. Um.
And then you know one that wejust did last week was the Irish
cream Tempters. Oh yeah, anduh, I think that needs a slight
bit of tweaking. But it's it'salmost there, right, it is almost
there, and it is it's prettygood. It's good that you still can

(25:22):
taste them and be like, Okay, this isn't quite there, but we'll
obviously put it out because we havethis out. Yeah, well you're not
gonna you're not gonna know, andit's all subjective, right, like,
also, what did you eat earlierthat I'm gonna be I'm gonna be hypercritical
of anything that we put on top. Everyone else is like, oh my
god, this is it's amazing.Yeah. Um, so I'm gonna be

(25:44):
hypercritical. There's probably a little tweakingwe need to do, but I mean
it sold out within a day ortwo, so yeah, so we probably
get did something right. Yeah,Fireball tempters not so much. I think
everyone needed to take a stab atsome kind of fireball, except for maybe
Martin House. Actually we cannot wecannot legally call it fireball to trust something
or now it is um Now wecall it the Temptress that was Never made.

(26:11):
Ah, okay, because it willbe never made again, because it
will never again for legal reasons.Now, another beer that you guys make
is your Lion Shares, which isabsolutely phenomenal. Every year. It seems
like you're having a lot of funin a beer nerd way with that one,
because stouts you can kind of reallynot really, but for the most

(26:33):
part you kind of throw whatever thehell you went in there and it will
come out taste pretty good. Butyou do a lot of like not niche,
but like, if you're a beerfan, you're going for those lion
shares. Yeah, so where didthat idea for the lion shares come from?
And I mean I have more lionshare questions, but let's start there.
Yeah, um well, lion share. I mean, look, we

(26:55):
needed an anniversary beer, right,sure, yeah, so let's call it
lin Share check? And then wheredoes it I guess? Also the name,
Yeah, so the Belgian well,I would say the Flemish flag,
which is part of Belgian that I'mfrom, has a line on it.
Okay, so it's more of ayou know, ancestral kind of thing.
Um. But then obviously the playon words with lion share. Right,

(27:18):
all right, this is the Lion'sshare. We will keep the lion share,
we will give you what's left.Um. So yeah, so that's
that's where it started. And yeah, we have have a lot of fun
with it. Now. You knowthe two criteria for line shares that it
has to be barl aged. Okay, and that's about it. And it
has to be different every year,right, and it has been different every

(27:41):
year, wildly different. I meanthe last one we did, um,
what's it the last one, that'sthe one before they're all running together.
Oh it's Monday. But that tosay, we've done everything from a three
and a half four percent berliner viceaged in white wine barrels with currents to

(28:08):
a stupidly strong you know, fourteenpercent imperio style right right, it's and
everything in between. So um yeah, so we have we definitely have fun
with it. Now. UM,I have a fan question. It is
when will you remake Lion Cheer four? Well, I guess that you if

(28:33):
you are just redoing or if you'redoing different beers, then probably not.
Probably not yeah, probably not.Um everyone asks about Lion Cheer four,
and it is a yeah, itis a it is a. It's it's
one of our most awarded beers thatwe've made, that in sentiment ironically,

(28:55):
which is very very very polarizing beer. Um. Yeah, cements, it's
just funny. We've we've won somany awards with that. Um. But
yeah, Lisha four. So Lashahfour was a barrel ashi quad um which
was just absolutely fantastic. One ofour former brewers, Tim Deemer, came

(29:17):
up with that, um and yeah, I mean people, people really like
that beer and it is a verytrue to style quad and then just you
know, that little addition of thebarrel aging on top of that just really
added some very very nice complexity andit aged well, and you know,
it was It's just one of thosebeers that people really loved. So yeah,

(29:44):
but will we make it again?Okay, you know, never say
never. If we do make itagain, we'll probably put it in a
different barrel, Okay, um,just so that it's not exactly the same
um. But yeah, no,it was a great beer. Yeah.
Ye. Now, I know youhad a lot of the variances of the

(30:07):
Lion Chair that your anniversary. Sohow much do you try to keep in
the back of house so that foryour anniversaries you can't pull them out like
that? Sure? So we usedto have a very large library of formerly
released beers and we used to putback you know, X number of kegs

(30:30):
every year. We did that withburn barrel, Tempertass, we did that
with Lion Chair, We did thatwith some of the seductions, you know,
anything that was big in ABV thatwe knew it would at least stand
at the test of time. Um, COVID just screwed that all up.
Facts Yep. So we needed moneyand we're like, screw it, open

(30:52):
up the vault. We're just gonnablow through everything because who knows if we're
gonna be a life tomorrow. Youand I want to keep everybody on payroll.
So um. Yeah, So thatactually got rid of a lot of
the backstock that we had that wesaved. So we're kind of in a
rebuilding phase at this point. Youknow, I don't think like I think

(31:15):
our BBT maybe goes back two yearsnow. I think we sort of blew
out the last remaining slim of youknow, seventeen BBT, seventeen BBT eighteen
like last year, same thing withLion share. We had I think one
or two kegs of lions or fourleft, and we did that for the

(31:38):
ten year anniversary. You know,we did say, Okay, look,
if we make it through COVID,yeah, we're gonna have a ten year
anniversary next year right ear the yearafter, So let's let's make sure that
we don't absolutely just get rid ofeverything. But yeah, we've we've paired
down a lot for sure. Yeah, I'm glad you guys are rebuilding that.

(32:00):
That's that's a good yeah, actuallyabout having that as well. Yeah,
it is fun and that what we'vebeen doing more is not necessarily just
keeping more of the same beer onhand. But if we do a Burton
barrel temptress, Right, let's getsome rye barrels, Let's get some you
know, tequila barrels. Let's getthis, Let's get that and do one

(32:22):
or two barrels just for funzies andsee if they turn out. And if
they turn out, then we youknow, do it for BBT Day or
International Stout Day or whatever. Andwe don't do that with just BBT.
We do that with other beers aswell. Right, So let's say I
have BBT, I think I haveback to eighteen or nineteen yep, how
long? How soon should I drinkthose? Because that's an extremely subjective question

(32:45):
because I don't know how that beerhas been stored. It's been in a
closet, right, Yeah, ButI mean, if you're is that temperature
consistent? Is the you know,how was it handled before? Yea ature?
Was it sitting in a back warehouseat one hundred degrees over the summer
somewhere you know, you don't knowgood, you really don't know. Beer

(33:07):
is very sensitive to light and temperature. Light's not something that you need to
worry about with most of our beers, especially our darker beers and our higher
alcohol beers, because they're either ina can where there's no light coming in,
or they're in a bottle within abox, so there's no light coming
in that way, so light's notan issue. But then temperature becomes an

(33:31):
issue. True, Um, youknow, and the if it was if
the perfect way would be that itcame off the bottling line, went into
a cooler at thirty four thirty fivedegrees and just stayed there until you drink

(33:52):
it. Right, that's the bestway to make sure there's there's not the
dish you know, aging going on. But some people like that, right,
So, like some people like whathappens to a beer when it goes
through all those different changes. Um, they like that the hops completely drop

(34:15):
off. They like that it startsto develop sort of a raisin the plumby
dark fruit sort of character over time. So yeah, I mean it's again,
it's totally subjective. There you go. Yeah, so, um,
we do. We try to doa tempters vertical about once a year,
you know, out of our personalstash that we bring from home. Usually

(34:38):
everyone usually brings up a bottle andwe kind of you know, go through
them. Um, and I thinkthat I wouldn't go I wouldn't go more
than five years on a BBTA.I think that's I think that's where it
kind kind of peaks. Yeah,you know, Um, again, it

(35:01):
depends on the year. But yeah, okay, that's what I had a
feeling it was five years, butI was just trying to Yeah, I
think five I think five years isgood if you're keeping it at a at
a good temperature. Um, youknow, put it in a wine fridge,
if you can do it. Yeahyeah, but don't lay it down.
I would keep it, keep itup, keep it vertical because it

(35:22):
does not have a quirk. Goodpoint. So if that liquid comes into
contact with the cap, the bottlecap it, there could be a potential
that it would rust out or wouldallow oxygen in. There we go and
oxidize your beer. So well,now we all know you want to make
sure you keep it up right.There we go, So speaking of line

(35:45):
share. I know your anniversary isnot till the end of this year.
It could we get any hints orwill you will? How soon do you
let people know what the line share? It will be a barrel aged beer.
Well good, a strong to quitestrong barrel aged beer. Okay,
yeah, well then we're going backto that, right, Yeah, we're

(36:06):
not. We're not doing a barrelaged session IPA. Okay, no,
no more there, No, it'llbe it'll be uh, it'll be high
add you know, people people wantto make sure that if they're spending their
hard earned money on on a verylimited beer, that you know they're getting
their back for the true makes sense. And we you know, we're we're

(36:28):
really good at making very drinkable.We're also very good at making very drinkable
low AVVA. This is true aswell. That is true. Yeah,
yeah, so, I mean youkind of just touched on it. But
so you guys have won so manymedals competitions. What wins more or what
means more to you winning competitions ormaking beer that makes you happy and people

(36:50):
happy? Um. Competitions are funbecause they are. Competitions can be frustrating,
obviously, obviously because again beer verysubjective, even if you have very
well trained judges. You should seesome of the comments that we get back,
and it's like, were you itwas? Was that even the right

(37:12):
beer? Um? No, competitionsare fun. Competitions do not sell beer,
true. Um, are you knowsome of our most awarded beers are
beers that we no longer make.Um, But it is nice to It
is nice to bring home some hardwareand to get an add a boy from

(37:32):
you know, your your beers.Um, and you know it's it's it's
a little bit of bragging rights justsort of within the community. Um.
But does the average consumer care ifyou know, we you know, we
want for Lakewood Lager? No,they're drinking that beer because they like it.

(37:54):
Yeah, you know. Um,so so it is fun from that
port from that perspective, What wasthe other part of that question? Uh,
is it better to win competitions orjust make beer that makes you happy
and other people happy? Oh?Um, yeah, no, it's much
that's much more fun to make abeer that I want to dream obviously,

(38:15):
Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, that's that's much more fun. That
makes sense. Now, it takesa good beer to obviously start a brewer.
Well, it should take good beerto start a brewery to be open
as long as you guys have,and obviously with the expansion, it takes
a good business side as well.Who are some people that really help you
when it comes to the business side, and then also like putting everything together

(38:37):
when it comes to operations everything.Um, I mean we've been lucky to
hire well over our ten years.Um, you know, I got I
got really good advice from from alot of people. Um, you know,
very early on when we when weweren't even open open yet, we
had Barrett, we barely had abusiness plan, and um, me and

(38:58):
me and a buddy just hopped ina car and sort of did a tour
of Texas. We went down,Yeah, I went down to carback.
We went down a live oak umyou know, five one two, and
just you know, the community isjust a very very open um. And
I'm glad that, you know,ten eleven, twelve years later, that
is that is still the case.It still feels very much like a um,

(39:23):
like an extended family. You know, there are obviously extended family members
that you'd rather not talk to.You know, you'll you'll see him at
Thanksgiving. You know, and you'llplay nice, but no, it's it
was so that was really really greatand everyone's just very open with with information.
And then you know, the BrewersGuild here in Texas has been really

(39:45):
good with information and National Brewers Guild, the Brewers Association. Um yeah,
I mean to to get to wherewe are and and to you know,
keep grinding it out every day.It definitely takes. It takes a village,

(40:07):
you know. So I mean everyeveryone's opinion at the brewery, it
carries the same weight. Um.And you know, we were very we're
very democratic in that way. Andyou know we and especially with like our
beers, we have a pilot system. Anybody who wants to brew a beer
can brew a beer. You know, it doesn't matter if you're in accounting

(40:30):
or if you're a salesperson or abrewer. Like if you get an idea
and you say, hey, youwant to brew a pilot badge, get
on the schedule, learn how tobrew beer, see how it does in
the tap room, and hey sometimesyou know, if it's really good,
if it's a hit, all right, now it's now it's in the seasonal
lineup. And if that does reallywell, now it's in the year round
lineup, so you know, it'sit's kind of cool to it to be

(40:53):
part of that process. Yeah,you know, I think it really binds
people to not just making a reallycool product, but then really kind of
going the extra step and going,Okay, well you made a really cool
beer. Can we can we sellthis and be profitable with it? Yeah?

(41:15):
Right, So then it's like,oh, I didn't realize that I
was using eight hundred pounds of hopsin this hazy ipa and you know it's
it's uh yeah, twenty five percentalcohol or whatever. You know, you
have to I think it's a goodlearning opportunity for for for anyone to realize

(41:37):
that, yeah, we are makingreally cool beer and we're having a lot
of fun doing it. We're alsoa business, so you've got to make
sure that you work within the guardrails to make sure that you have a
beer that is going to be profitableso that you can pay your employees.
Sure. So it's just, youknow, it's just a way that we

(41:58):
have fun, but we have seriousfun, right, We're seriously fun beer.
Uh. We you know, wewe always want to make sure that
people kind of get the whole picture. Yeah, because a lot of people,
I imagine, do be like,Oh, I'm working at a brewery.
I get to drink all day andit's gonna be so awesome. And
then you're like, those people don'tAlaska exactly. Yeah, because you actually
have to work. Whatever beer youthink you're making today, you're not drinking

(42:22):
for another month. And then youknow again, you still have to sell
that to keep these lights on,to keep these burners going, to keep
everything happened. So yeah, thatmakes complete sense. Absolutely. Now I
know the guys from Vector all camefrom here. Ye who else from the
Metroplex brewery wise has come from Lakewood? Oh shit, um man, Tommy's

(42:50):
a vectorum credsitve vector? Man?Now you put me on the spot.
I wasn't to do an your researchand I couldn't. There's you know,
there's a lot of people that haveended up at different Texas breweries. I
don't know if they're necessarily in dfW. That's fine. Um yeah,

(43:17):
I don't know, without a withouta roster past employees. Yeah, I
wouldn't. I couldn't. I couldn'ttell you. It's fine. Yeah,
so we kind of touched on it, But what was your Gateway craft beer,
my Gateway craft beer. Yeah,that's a very good question. Um,

(43:46):
I'm trying to think back of likenineteen ninety nine, what's available.
Red hook esb was available, whichis that ess aren't really popular, not
that popular, but IPAs not thatpoint true. Yeah, you know people
were drinking seering about a pale aleand going, oh my god, right

(44:07):
what is this? Um you knowone of them that says it's not my
gateway, but one of them thatreally stands out is Prima Pills. Okay,
um by Victory Right, Um,I think that that's like, that's

(44:29):
that's that's just really good. Yeah, you know, it's just such a
good beer. Um. We definitelydrank a lot of that when we were
you know, ripping out carpet andyou know, ceiling tiles and stuff when
we first moved in here. Uhyeah, that was definitely. I remember
having their Golden Monkey. Early GoldenMonkey was good. Yeah, for sure.

(44:52):
Um, you know I drank themall. I drank a lot of
Modelo and honestly, guilty pleasure,delicious guilty pleasure. Still like it.
Your Mexican is really good too,but thank you, yeah, thank you.
So what is your top three figurebeers you've ever made that I've ever
made? Yeah, well news flash, I don't make a whole lot of

(45:12):
beer. Kay, our brewers do, hands, but what are some No,
So my my roles more um production, uh, production, leading facilities.
Okay, what is your fans andCFO type of stuff? Look at
chicks and stuff? Yeah, plumbingwhatever? Um clog toilet calling you clog

(45:36):
toilet? Uh? Yeah, No, I've clogged uncloged many toilets. Um
man, you know, I willsay it was funny. I went so
I went to Uh, I wentto Blue Bonnet, which is I think
still one of the largest homebrew competitionsin the US. Yeah, and that's
kind of where we got our start. I guess it was twenty It was

(46:01):
actually today, thirteen years ago becauseit was on today's My wedding anniversary was
on our wedding day. Our weddingnight was the same night as blue Bonnet
back in twenty ten. And wewon a gold, silver and bronze,
and we won a gold with lakeWoodlagger, right, so or what would

(46:24):
become Lakewoodlager. So yeah, soit's kind of funny. What a day
for you? What a day?Yeah? Yeah, so lake Woodlager is
definitely one of my favorites. Itwas you know, that's one that we
brewed in the literally in the garage, five gallons at a time, and
that recipe has really not changed.It's been very, very consistent, and

(46:50):
you know, it was our flagshipfor the longest time and then temperatures kind
of overtook it in you know,a couple of years in, but it's
still our number one seller in thetap room, and it's just it's just
such an easy drinking beer. Yeah, loggers are starting to see their their
rise again. I hope, Yeah, I hope. So. Um,
We've we've been making some really fantasticloggers lately. Rhinehart is another logger that

(47:14):
we just made. It just blewon tap. I did it. I
wasn't gonna order. Yeah, it'sa it's a German logger in it is
outstanding. Um. So you know, I'm I'm hoping that that we can
put that one into rotation somewhere.Um. So yeah, So top favorite

(47:37):
beers Man logger is a drink alot of it till on Soil because it
just it was sort of the perfectblend of a americanized says on um oh

(47:59):
man, and I think right heartynice, yeah, which is a you
know, brand new one really.Yeah. Now, if someone was to
walk in the Tapper now they've neverhad your beer, what flight would you
give? What? Four flight?Would you give them four beer flight?
Yes, well I'd probably picked somethingfrom every category you have to. Yeah,

(48:24):
so I'd go Lake with Lagger,temptre snitro like good Logger, tempta
Snitro Goddess, which is our newhazy I pa Um and William Portante.

(48:45):
Ah, Okay, okay, Ididn't know if you were gonna go with
the taper or but no, wedon't. We don't really do that any
sours anymore. Um, we gotone that we're going to release for draft
only in a couple of months.Okay. That's prickly pink and it's pretty

(49:05):
dude. It's a prickly pear andpink guaba. I think people mess with
a prickly pear much anymore. AndI love that, especially when China did
it. I was like, thisis best. People just don't really mess
with it for whatever is. Yeah, it's not an ingredient that's really easy
to find or hasn't traditionally been aningredient that's easy to find. You can
get it a lot more readily now. But um, in a pink guaba

(49:29):
in that sour I look forward.Is that ship's good now. I'm not
trying to get you in any trouble. But Top five favorite DFW breweries in
no order, just five, inno particular order, particular order, in
no particular order. Um, obviouslyI love what what Craig and Tommy are

(49:54):
doing a factor. Yeah, they'remaking some really great beers. Um,
you know, I really think thatRoar doesn't quite get the respect the same.
Yeah, they like if you justgo by JBF Metal Counts and World

(50:14):
Beer Cut Metal Counts. Yeah,it's like they're doing shit right. They're
not as hypees. I mean,they're not hype like Martin House, So
I think that's maybe why they don'tget as much love on that side.
But and they've kind of this ismy thought process, they figured out what
works and they kind of stuck withthat. They're not a lot of people
will kind of get out of thelane just to see how much it works.

(50:37):
But not obviously, as far asyou know, a Martin House by
Pickle or Hot Dog Beer or whatever. But but they figured out what works
and they stick with that. AndI think that it's fine because, like
you said, they've nailed it.They've won enough medals and competitions and they've
been around as long as they haveover a decade that they can do that.
Ye. So, but yeah,I don't think they get as much

(50:58):
love as they should either. Um. Okay, So where are we vector
rare? That's two um bankhead okayum because they have an RO system which
allows them to really dial it inon style, which is great. Um

(51:22):
uh. Manhattan's making really solid beersum. And then one more budge.
You know, they don't let meout of the herrey very much. I
don't get around um. Oh man, you know, I'm I'm I'm I

(51:52):
am curious to see what Smitics isgonna Ah yeah, bringing the table we
just did. We just did toclabwith them, and is this not a
shame? It is plug paintings umor maybe a little bit. But we
just did a cloud with them onour pilot system and it's a New Zealand
pills. Oh what so what makesit the New Zealand? Is it that

(52:14):
it's all New Zealand pops? Wow? Um, it's got a pretty kick
gas yeast o man. Okay,Um, yeah, it's awesome. It
doesn't drink like it drinks like anipa. Yeah, but it's it's I'll
like to try something. It's soit's fucking amazing. So yeah, so

(52:35):
I'm really I'm really excited for Semitics. Um, you know, they've they've
been trying to trying to get somethinggoing for a very long time. So
um, yeah, to be youknow, a point zero zero zero zero
zero one percent of you. Uh, it's fun, It's super fun.
And you know, I think whatwhat really makes it fun doing like collapse

(53:01):
and stuff, especially with with NewBrewers, is that it's it's really invigorating.
Yeah. Um, they're they're excitedthat they have new ideas. They're
scared to death, um, whichwe all still are. I think you

(53:22):
should be to a point. Ohyeah, healthy fear is good exactly.
Yeah. Yeah, you don't.You don't want to be cocky in this
industry. It's not gonna get youvery far. Um. So yeah,
so those I guess those would bemy five. Okay, yeah, those
would be my five for now.Yeah. I talked to him and he
first off isn't one of the nicestguys. And then also it was the

(53:42):
collaborations he's done are fantastic yea,And I just can't wait. Like you
said, new blood in the breweryindustry is not a bad thing, like
not at all. And he's gettinga lot of height because he is a
black male that I asked him andhe was like, no, I just
happened to be a brewer and Ialso happened to be black. Sure,
And like the fact that he's gettingall this news attention is awesome because more
people need to be I think,more dialed into what's happening in the brewery

(54:06):
industry in general, because again there'slike a something breweries and they're not summers.
Very few are closing down, butthey're still more opening all the time.
Yeah. So and then you knowyou have people like false Idele turning
Point Link that bring people to themid cities that had no reason whatsoever to
go over to mid cities and nowlook at him like people go their own
a regular basis. But I lovewhat he's doing is in like the South

(54:28):
Dallas, so Cliff, like thatnice area and that area is being so
crazy. I think I think youknow, every every area of the metroplexus
so so different, and everyone's solocally proud of their little corner of you
know, the Greater Texas area,Yeah, or the greatest North Texas area

(54:50):
that. Yeah, why not whynot have a why not have a cultural
meeting place exactly right? Yeah,in every in every neighborh Yeah. And
I know Ciren Rock had some issueswhen they first started because people of rock
Wall it's an older generation and theyhave a lot of money, and they
think breweries are just bars and it'sgoing to be drunkards in your streets.

(55:13):
No, it's a community spot.It's a place for parents to take their
kids to go hang out and havefun. And you know, like you
said, it's a community spot wherepeople can get together. Absolutely. Hey
I haven't seen your old friend ina very long time. Or hey it's
a first date I goes here.Oh I haven't been here either. Oh
they got feel great? Yeah,I mean, and we do. We
do a ton of fundraisers or youknow, local schools or charitable organizations or

(55:36):
you know, whatever it is.It's we have space right right, and
it's a fun space. Yeah,use it space exactly. Yeah. So
I just I think people still hopenot. I think people are getting out
of it, but I do thinkthere are some people has to have that
old mindset of like, oh,this is a you know, all the
drunkards go there and they're like,no, that's not true. Yeah,
there's a lot of beard and whiteguys. But that's just breweries in general,

(55:57):
right, Yeah, so it's alwaysgonna happen. Now, this is
the Bruises podcast. So I haveto ask if you were a pro wrestler
or an MMA fighter, what wouldyour name be If I was a pro
wrestler or MMA fight. Uh,well probably the muscles from Brussels. Perfect,
but m u s s oh okay, yes, so you also be

(56:17):
a shot well yeah, I lovethat or waffle waffle man, w waffle
something with waffle. I think youcan figure it out figured out. If
people want to find out more aboutthe brewery, visit y'all, try your

(56:37):
beer, follow you online. Howcan they do a lot of things Lakewood
Brewing dot com, at Lakewood Brewingon Twitter, at Lakewood Brewing on in
stuff, and at Lakewood Brewing onthe facebooks. Some people aren't s Yeah,
there's enough offense on the still Iam too, Bossel Holluse and my
grandma gonna come up with me.Yes, yes, well when thank you

(57:00):
so much. I love your brewery, I love your story when it comes
to this brewery, and I can'twait to see what the rest of the
adventure holds for you. Yeah,thank you, no problem. Thank you

(57:24):
so much to Win for being onthe show with Lakewood Brewing Company again.
If you are in the DFW area, please go to Lakewood Brewing. You
will not be disappointed. Not onlyis the food grade, but the beer
is absolutely amazing and they're doing somany fun and cool things over there as
well. So please go follow uson social media. It is Bruisers b

(57:44):
R E W S E R Sp O D on the Instagram and the
Twitter. Make sure you go lookus up on the Reddit as well and
Facebook. Don't forget to email uswith any suggestions, concerns, comments,
concerns, even more concerns over atBruiser's pod at gmail dot com. And
if you want to follow me directly, it is Roadie John. That is

(58:05):
r O d I E j ON. Roodie John is the name on
the Twitter and untapped. If youwant to send me an email, It
is also Roodie John at gmail dotcom and if you want to follow me
on the Instagram, it is officialRoady John. So until next time,
make sure to enjoy life, drinklocal and cheers.