September 28, 2025 • 65 mins
Aaron Fink is back—and he's bringing a fresh chapter to his already multi-faceted music journey. On this episode of Bringin’ It Backwards, Adam and Tera Lisicky catch up with Aaron over Zoom in his third appearance on the podcast. This time, it's all about his new solo album, The Invisible Line, and the creative process behind it.
Aaron pulls back the curtain on what it's really like to juggle projects—from his time with Breaking Benjamin, to reuniting with Lifer, recording with Earshot, and finding his artistic voice as a solo act. He dives into the realities of recording (including why he does almost everything himself), what inspires his songwriting, and how the industry has changed for independent artists. Plus, Aaron gets candid about the struggles of touring these days, the personal shifts that come with growing older, and why it’s more important than ever to create for the love of the music.
If you’re an aspiring musician trying to make sense of how to thrive in today’s music world, or just a fan of Aaron’s work across his bands and solo material, this episode is packed with honest, hard-earned insight. Make sure you listen to the full interview and subscribe to Bringin’ It Backwards for more stories straight from the artists themselves.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast
where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories
of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance
to hang out with Aaron Fink over Zoom Video.
This is actually the third time we've had Aaron on the
podcast. We had him on a couple of times in
(00:21):
2021, March, and then in August, the first time with his
band Earshot and then alongside Nick
with the band Lifer. This time around, Aaron joined us
to talk about his brand new album which is
called the Invisible Line. We kind of recapped a little bit on the first two
interviews we had, but we talked a lot about Aaron's solo
(00:43):
project and he gets into detail about his process when
it comes to writing for Earshot or Lifer or for himself
and how he plays all of the instruments on his solo
project, talks about the recording process of this new album.
So we really do a deep dive into Aaron's creative
process when it comes to working on
(01:06):
songs and records solely for his solo project.
You can watch the interview with Aaron on our Facebook page and YouTube
channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be amazing if you subscribe to our channel
like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and tick tock at
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(01:28):
there as well and hook us up with a five star review.
We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're Bringing. It Backwards with
Aaron Fink.
Bringing it backwards.
(01:52):
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it
backwards.
Hey, what's up Aaron? How are you man? What's up dude?
I'm good, man. How are you? Excellent.
(02:12):
Awesome. Thank you so much for, for doing this. I'm super excited
to have you on again. Yeah, me too. I think it's been,
I don't know, at least two years since we talked or something. Right? Yeah,
I think last time it was with Lifer.
Yeah, very nice. Yeah. So it was.
(02:33):
Yeah, there the first time it was just you with Earshot. I think
I want to say yer. Maybe Nick was on with
you Believe. Does that make sense? Yeah,
Always doing something, it's hard to keep track. Yeah,
man, well, yeah, you got so much going on all the time.
(02:53):
Well, I again, I appreciate you doing it again. So you kind of know what
the drill. We talk about you and your journey in music and
you said you have a new album? Yep. My new
record's called the Invisible Line and that'll be out, I think
in September. I'm gonna release, you
know, what. What the kids Call, I guess Drip It Out. I don't know.
(03:15):
I'm excited, dude. Yeah. The most recent one that you put out was I Went
Back Down. Is that the newest one? Yeah, that was just Tom
Petty cover that I did. I. I thought, yeah,
just kind of put out something familiar
just to kind of stir the waters for. For my songs that'll come out later.
I know that's a song that's been done a million times, but I kind of
(03:38):
put my own spin on it. It's a little bit different than. Than you think.
No. 100. Yeah, I think it's a rad, really rad
version of the song. Oh, thanks, dude.
Yeah. And then after I recorded that, I had seen
that there was a country compilation
coming out of all his songs and I was like, ah, man. So that
(04:01):
was kind of bad timing. But I put out my song,
get him to it. Right. Theirs came out first. Oh, there's
just came out first. I had recorded that and then I saw in the
news that that was coming out. I was like, ah. But I mean, it has
been covered before. And like I said, all the versions I heard very
like to the T, just straight up exactly like
(04:23):
his. And I was like, I didn't see the point in
trying to replicate something that was already great the way it was the first
time. So I made mine different.
Love it. Love it. Well, I guess for the people that
haven't, they should go back and watch the first two interviews. Lifer and
earshot to get your. Dive into it. But
(04:45):
we'll just recap a little bit and kind of pick up where we, you know,
left off with what's been going on since
last interview with. With Life. I think you had an album out at the time.
Yeah, we put out consecutive singles.
We never made a full length record. So that
(05:07):
band as it is today, we put out a record in
2001 and then
2020ish. We put out like five
singles in a row. So. Okay, that's what it was. Yeah, maybe it was
Hate Me, Love Me. I think maybe it was a single at the time. I
can't remember. Oh, yeah, yeah. So,
(05:27):
right, so where we stand with that? It was one album and five singles, so.
Okay. Right on. So originally,
tell me again, where are you originally born and raised? Right.
I was born in New York state upstate, but I kind of.
I Moved to Pennsylvania in the early 80s and have lived here
(05:49):
ever since. Okay. Yeah. I thought you still were there. Yeah,
yeah. Where are you at right now? You're in Nashville. Nashville,
yeah. First time I talked to you, I was in San Diego,
and then we moved to Nashville. Yes. The last
time we spoke, I had been in. Yeah, we had moved to Nashville maybe like
a year, and then now, obviously still here. Love it in Nashville.
(06:10):
Yeah. I was just down there about two weeks ago.
I went down to a little town called
Hendersonville. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Just. That's like thinking
north of Nashville. Yeah. So
I finished up some tracks for the new Earshot record.
So I was down in. Oh, rad. So you guys record it in Nashville area?
(06:34):
We did half of it in Florida and then we finished up in
Nashville. Awesome. So awesome.
Yeah. So you're in. Still in Pennsylvania, and that's kind
of where. I mean, that's where life started. Right. And that was kind
of the. Was that the first band? And then you eventually joined
Breaking Benjamin, like, years later. Right. And were you
(06:56):
embraced? So Breaking Benjamin came first, actually.
And. And. But the first incarnation of it didn't last
very long, and that was in the late 90s. And
then we kind of became Strange with
Candy, which became Lifer. Oh, sure. Okay.
And then I went back to Breaking Benjamin. So
(07:18):
it was kind of a, you know, a complicated,
convoluted mix there of a lot of the same guys in the same area
and kind of, you know, stirring it up.
And then Breaking Benjamin obviously hit really big.
So that took off and, you know, that started a whole series
(07:39):
change. Probably changed your life quite a bit for.
It did. Yeah. Horse. For a while. Yeah. Yeah.
So, okay. Just because we've already kind of went over all these things before in
the. In the other interviews. I just. Let's pick up then with. With, you
know, you. You released a single with. With lifer in, like, 2020
(08:00):
or 2022, I think. 2021. 2022. When that. That came
out and then, you know, from there. When do you start working on this
album? You know, your solo stuff, like, when you have so many
things going on, it sounds like you just record an earshot record. I mean,
you have a lot to. Yeah. You know, kind of going on here,
so. I'm always working. I do. You know,
(08:23):
I never counted it, but I'm sure I put in about 40 hours a week,
as, like, one would with a, you know, regular job.
So I'm always writing. I'm not always writing,
actually. It's funny, I think about it, I go through.
I usually always write in the winter. I don't know why.
(08:43):
I guess in Pennsylvania, there's just a lot of, like, indoor time,
and that seems to be when I create a lot of stuff.
And then. So
this past winter, I wrote most of these songs
coming up that'll be coming up on the Invisible Line
record, but. And then I recorded them in January
(09:07):
and February in a studio in the Poconos,
which people kind of know. Pennsylvania for the mountains,
but. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then Earshot
was written and recorded last summer. So
it's. That album's taken forever to kind of get done. So.
But that. So that's kind of been in the can, so to speak,
(09:29):
at least creatively, for well over a year.
But I am writing a lot and recording with different
things and keeping busy. I'd like to play more shows,
but in tour some more. But it's just,
you know, it's. It's tough these days to get that going. And
(09:51):
it's. Yeah, really. It's not the same as it was. It's. It's a lot
harder with Lifer. Like,
is that you. I mean, you said you put one album out, but then, you
know, five singles or so. Is that band
more. You guys just kind of get together when
you feel like. I. Is that more of just get together
(10:13):
when you can type deal, and then you focus more on your shot and obviously
what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we broke
up obviously there for a long time, at least
16, 17 years. And then we got back together,
and then the pandemic happened. So that
kind of made things very
(10:35):
odd. And then Nick
Singer. Yeah. Say the least. So Nick. And then
Nick, the sing of Lifer,
was in the band Cold for a while. Yeah. So
he was torn with that, actually. The drummer of Lifers also
in Cold. So two of those guys from Lifer went
(10:57):
to Cold. I think the basis of Cold has been on my show
before. It's a. She's the female. Correct. I
forgot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had her on. Yeah.
So that put kind of Lifer on ice for a while,
and then I started getting back into my solo stuff.
(11:18):
So, you know, like, we're not broken up. We're just kind of
on ice for a minute while everybody's pursuing
other things, you know? Yeah, yeah. No 100.
And then you did. Yeah. Earshot, obviously, has just
kind of been something that's continued on. Yeah, I do
that whenever, you know, duty calls.
(11:40):
That's kind of a strange setup. We all Live in different states.
And so it's not like a thing where
we're hardly ever in the same room together. So
I do that when, you know,
when I'm asked to, basically. But. Okay, so
(12:01):
the thing that I focus on the most is my solo stuff and I, I
do that and I gig around, you know, gig and records
and. And have practices and you know,
so that's the main thing that I'm doing these days. Yeah, because you
had an. You put out Dear Universe.
But that was even before. That was after we had talked. So you hadn't even
(12:23):
put that album out yet. Yeah. So we missed an album cycle.
Yeah. So. Okay. So. I mean. Well, I
guess. Yeah. Just tell me about going into. I mean you have. You've been putting
out albums under your own solstice for a long time,
right? I mean for years you've had like what's gonna be like your fifth album,
right? I think it's the sixth. Sixth
(12:46):
album. Yeah. Okay. Six albums under your belt.
Under. Yeah. Under your solo stuff. Like
it would have loosely have plans to make 10
a la Quentin Tarantino. Okay,
well then why did you just. What? Change. Change it to something else? Well,
(13:06):
I heard, I saw an interview with him and he was. And he gave us
great interview and he said he's gonna make 10 movies. And I was like,
that's. That's genius. So like I'm at
six. So I. I loosely have plans to make
ten. So four more coming.
But yep. So Dear Universe
(13:29):
came out. I think that came out in 2022.
And that's a. I'm really proud of that record. So that was my
kind of return to slightly
heavier, slightly more produced music.
I. I got into a vibe there
(13:49):
where I was making more roots rock type stuff
and less like very raw
sounding records. And so now with, with.
With Dear Universe and the Invisible Line, they're a little bit heavier,
which I know people know me for. Nothing crazy,
not like stuff I'm hearing younger people put out
(14:15):
Crazy heavy. To me it's like so, you know,
it's more like, I guess dad rock. But.
When it comes to like writing, like you said with, with
Earshot, you all live in different states. Like are you writing with
those, I mean for that band as well, alongside your
(14:35):
solo stuff or is it totally different? Like you're just mainly when you, when you're
writing, when you sit down and write, is it basically you're trying to usually write
for your. Your own project?
It's a good question, I think when I write.
So when I'm working with Earshot. I'm writing the
(14:56):
music, right? Writing the lyrics
or the melody. So
it's mostly with Lifer. Every now and then I write lyrics with Lifer.
But so with those two bands, that's more
of like when I'm doing straight up riffs or
(15:18):
verse beds or chorus beds,
I usually ship them out to either Life or Earshot
because I know I'm not the singer in those bands or the
lyricist. So I'm like, this is a great music
bed. I'll let Will or Nick sing over it and
do their thing. When I have like song
(15:40):
titles or lyrics going or melodies I
usually lean towards, well, that's going to be one of my songs because
I have a clear finished version
for the tunes. And you know,
I'm like, all right, I'm gonna sing this one. So. And I. Or I feel
very strongly about the lyrics because they're personal or, you
(16:01):
know, so they. They get reserved for. For
my thing. So when you write songs for yourself, does it
start with the lyrics or with the melody that you
come up with instead of like maybe sitting down and you're like, oh, this is
a pretty rocking riff. Or this is a cool. Like this would make a
cool chorus. Let me give it to those two bands.
(16:23):
Or sometimes are you like, this is a pretty rock and riff and you have
a melody in your head and you kind of just right along to it then
that way. Yeah, I mean, it differs. I mean
usually. I mean, I'm sure you've heard other artists say that usually the best
songs are the ones you write in like 10 minutes and they
seem to all fall in place. They seems that those seem to be the
(16:44):
songs that stand the test of time for me. I notice
the songs I labor over and I'm like, oh, I can't
finish this. Or this part isn't right. Or they're kind of
like a Frankenstein piece of us. The part of a song,
a part of a song and a riff from here and you glue them together.
Those part. Those seem to be. For whatever reasons this. The
(17:06):
songs that don't stand the test of time for me.
So. But you know, I have. Have riffs laying around and
I. I stockpile stuff and I'll have
just a riff and I'll be like, ah, it's kind of unfinished.
Or usually with me. Or
maybe heavier riffs. Go to
(17:28):
Earshot or Lifer because they're heavier bands and
my stuff is a little bit more straight up rock and roll. It's not
like, sure, heavy music. So like Maybe
the big, crunchier stuff goes to those. To those
projects. But
(17:48):
a lot of times with my stuff, I strangely start with
just a song title. So I have, like, on
my phone, I just think of song titles. I have, like, 200 song
titles sitting there. And then.
So that's lyrically a lot where I'll. I'll start
with just the title and then.
(18:11):
But yeah, it's weird. Like I said, I go through periods. Like, I wrote
most of the Invisible Line in
November and December last year, and they don't kind of.
I'll really get hyper focused on, like, all right, I'm in a songwriting
zone, and all my creative
processes are done in the morning, over a cup of coffee.
(18:35):
I'm not. I'm not a late night guy.
I'm not a chemically induced guy.
It's so boring. I'm, like, stone sober.
Nine in the morning, fired up, cup of coffee. Like, I know
it's not very rock and roll, Sonny, but that's just the way I work. I
get. Usually those are the best songs. I'm stone sober, too, but you
(18:58):
know what I mean? Like, you. I feel like once people start to use, like,
a crutch, like, oh, I need to be, like, really stoned, and then the vibe,
it's like, he probably doesn't. Yeah, for me, it's. For
me, that's not the way I'm pretty. You know, I was
fortunate. I was. I came from a creative family. My dad's a writer,
my sister's a painter. And the arts were always encouraged
(19:21):
in our household. And we kind of like, you know,
some families would go to, like, Walt Disney World. We went to, like, a
museum. So it was, like, pretty boring. That's so rad.
So, like, I could convince my kids to do that, right? Well, it
was a different era. Disneyland. I know there was
no phones to stare at, but I think my point was, like,
(19:44):
creativity was always encouraged and
in my family. So, like, I always had. I think I'm just
kind of maybe hardwired in that department. So,
you know, I look like a guy that smokes weed all day, but actually, I
don't smoke weed at all, and I don't.
(20:06):
So I don't need, like. I'm not saying I'm not. Not against
any other stuff. I'm just saying I don't use that stuff to kind of find
my creativity. I. I feel like life
and situations and events and. And getting
older and, you know, even being a father
or this and that are the kind of things that inspire me to Write.
(20:29):
And I don't really need to, you know, break out the psychedelics
to. To get weird. I can kind of get weird on my
own.
You do. Like, I know a lot of artists talk about the
artist's way, that book. Or they talk about morning pages and getting up and
writing. Like, is you. Is that part of your routine at all? Like you
(20:51):
get up and just start like brain dumping, just everything. Or
is it focus on writing something?
Right. I've heard a lot of like
Nashville style songwriters say they
write every day no matter what, like a schedule.
I'm not like that. If something comes to me,
(21:14):
I'll hopefully can set aside some time in my day
to focus on it. If something comes to me and I'm like, I'll never remember
that. I just record it on my phone acapella. Or
if I. If there's a guitar laying around. But
I'm not strict about it. It's just if. When it comes to me, it comes
(21:34):
to me, but I don't make it a. It's not like going to the gym
or something for me. If it's. It's not like we're doing this
Monday at 9. So if it comes. It comes to me. If it comes to
Coming. Yeah. With your. I mean to.
I love the fact you put out all albums and then you're like, I'm gonna
do 10. You know, instead of the. The
(21:55):
new thing with you do a single and put it out
and you gotta. It's space. And then we're gonna release
five total and then it just all ends now. This EP
or whatever. Like when you, when you write like
for this new album or even Dear Universe, like, do you have
a, like a through line that you kind of start to see and then you
(22:17):
start like, okay, I know this is going to be kind of the concept of
the album. I mean, not saying that it is a concept album, but you know,
albums have some sort of through line
in place. Like. Yeah,
that's a good question. I don't think that I've made a
concept album yet. Although for the next
(22:39):
one I do have a theme in mind.
I think so. I read a lot and I
have quite a few songs stockpiled.
I think I kind of get into a zone. So I am still
an album mentality guy. It's probably because of my age.
(23:01):
I just personally think albums are cooler.
I agree. If you looked back and you were
like, remember when Pearl Jam released that song Alive?
I just don't think it has the same ring
to it or the nostalgia Quality of. Remember
(23:22):
when they released that album 10. Right. And I
also feel like it's not. The longevity isn't there either. You're not going to be
like, yeah, oh, I like this. I mean,
obviously music is changing and everything's changing and everyone's so like, quick,
quick, quick. But like to be a band
like Pearl Jam, you know, you, those, those
(23:45):
are the bands that are gonna stand the test of time because they have a
full album of songs that is that people like everything.
I think so. I think so. I think so.
And like, you know, it's been brought to my
attention by more business minded people of like, just release a
song at a time and I'm just like, I hear you and
(24:08):
I know that's what everybody else does, but it's just, it's just
not what I strive to do. I mean, I
would be interested in doing an ep, but just
a song. I also, again, I just write so much, I'm like,
well, I might as well just put them out. Even if, you know, maybe
say the 9th, 8th, 9th, 10th song aren't as strong as the other.
(24:31):
It still felt at the time some sort of snapshot
of where my head was at and what I was doing and
what I was into at the moment. So.
And again, coming back maybe Tarantino movies, I'm
a huge film buff and I wouldn't want
(24:51):
to see just a scene, right?
Or dogs. I want to see the whole movie. So like that's where
his head was at at the time and that's his
snapshot. So I don't know. You know, call me
crazy, I'm just, I'm into, I'm into albums. It's also,
you know, it's, they're, it's more expensive than people think
(25:14):
to make a good album. And you know, it sucks that they're kind
of for free at this point. Although I did
press, I actually have it laying right here. I
pressed vinyl, the new record. Oh, wow.
That's the COVID Awesome. That's such a rad cover. Oh, thanks, dude.
So that's the invisible line. I have a couple. I just got
(25:38):
copies in the mail, but so I did. So
hopefully I can make a buck or two because it's just so, so damn
expensive to make, to make records. So I still go to
studios and I still hire guys. And
I'm not like, I'm DIY in the sense that I'm
not on a big label, but I'm not diy like in the sense that
(26:00):
I'm gonna do it all in my Basement and for. On. On. On
the cheap. I still, you know, do it
up a little bit. So it's hard to make a buck on the back end.
But I don't know. I'm rambling here, but.
Yeah, yeah. No, so, like, with that, I mean, when you write
(26:21):
a bunch of songs, are you. Yeah. Kind of start seeing, like, oh,
this. I think this could be an album, or this. These are all kind
of work. You. You could lay them out in a way where it would sound
like an album. Or once you get to that point, are you recording a lot
of just the demos at your house by yourself or.
And is that. Are you. Are you recording everything yourself? Yes.
(26:45):
So I have a little studio set up here at the house, and
I. Actually were in your studio one of the times I talked to you, maybe.
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm actually pretty
damn fluent in all the rock. Basic
rock instruments. I've been playing drums as long as I've been playing
guitar. I remember that was like, one of your first instruments, right? Or was that.
(27:07):
Yeah, so. So. And. And my
music isn't incredibly complicated on the drum,
so I can play all my own songs just fine.
And I. So I write, you know, I play bass
guitar, piano, sing,
obviously, so I get all. All my ideas I can flesh
(27:30):
out all by myself. And
it's kind of a lonely process, but there is. There is a beauty to
it. And, like, it is satisfying to some degree.
So, like, if I'm like, oh, this song should have this drum beat, I go
out and I record it and make it happen. And then
lately I've been farming that
(27:53):
out to, like, you
know, at least in the drum department. I'm like, well,
I think there's a guy that could probably play this a little bit
better than me. So let's do that. They have the idea,
but you give them. It's not like you just send the parts that don't have
drums and. Yeah. Your own part to it. Right. So, you know,
(28:18):
going back to movies, basically, I write the whole script
and then I have actors come in
and. And bring it to life and make it better
than it would have been just on paper,
if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So do you utilize, like, a
producer in the sense of, like, helping you try to enhance
(28:40):
the song or so? So I guess, like.
Yeah. Other ideas or. No. Yeah, I pretty much
produced the Invisible Line and Dear
Universe. I had great studio
owner, engineer guys that really
helped it come to life. But as far as,
(29:02):
like, overseeing all the creative process and stuff,
I do that for better or for worse. But I'm
kind of good at seeing where this should go here and this
go here and overall picture. And I've been doing this for a long. This is.
I made a lot of records, so, like, like
I know a thing or two about a thing or two at this point. Right.
(29:26):
So now
it would be cool to
do an album where I don't flesh everything
out beforehand and maybe just have sketches.
And I would be curious to see, to give
(29:47):
someone else, like, total creative
license with it and just
have like, I got the lyrics, the melody, and just the guitar
and like, let someone else maybe fill in all the blanks. I
might, I would be open to that. It just hasn't happened that
way yet. Again, like a producer in mind that you
(30:10):
would want. Or is it like you have no idea? I don't know.
It'd be, you know, it would take some trust, I
was gonna say. Yeah, you have to give up a lot of control on that.
Yeah. So I'm open to that. I don't, you know, it hasn't happened. But
again too, it's like,
(30:31):
well, I can play the drums. So, like, I'll just play, I'll
just write the drum part. So, like. Right.
That's on the album. I mean, it's
not like an ego thing. It's just like, well, I can,
I'll play the drum beat I'm hearing on this. So
again, I think if I didn't have that skill set,
(30:55):
I, if I was just someone that kind of strum the guitar or whatever, I
might just have, you know, I hear artists, newer
artists, even like pop songs where I can tell they. Someone just
had chords and a lyric or something. And then a producer,
producer made it with all this fancy underneath of it.
So I, I, I hear how music is made that way
(31:18):
where a producer takes a basic
idea and puts all this crazy, you know,
effects on it and stuff like that. But my music's a little bit more like
straight up rock and roll, so. Yeah, well, makes
sense. I mean, because obviously a producer will then have their thumbprint on it in
a way. Like, I mean, if you heard a certain producer, you, yeah. And you
(31:38):
listen to that. Whether it's they wrote a song for X, Y or
Z artists, they all kind of have their own
vibe underlined in all
those songs. Right. You know what I mean? So it almost like with
this being your solo stuff and your
ideas and it would all, it all is just, okay, this is what I want
(32:00):
it to sound like and this is what it's going to sound like there's. There's
no. It's not a band setting in a way. Right. It's more. It's
just you. Right. Again, I would be
curious to make an album like that where I was just. I didn't
overthink it to death and I just had the chords and the
melody and the lyrics and I would be
(32:22):
interested to make an album that way. I just haven't yet.
Okay, well, with this, with this new album, like kind of. Tell me
about the. The like what it's. Is there.
Is there like a kind of through line con. A concept album? But like, is
there like the album about. And like.
Yeah. So it's a little bit heavier,
(32:46):
a little bit. Nothing crazy, but it just has a little bit
more of an edge and you know, the guitars are a
little detuned and kind of heavier
because I know, you know, obviously I'm quite aware that
people mostly know me as the guy from Breaking
Benjamin. So you
(33:09):
know, there was a part of me that for a while there that was like,
well, I'm not in that band anymore and if I
have to kind of forge my own path now going forward. But
in recent years I've come back full circle and
I really appreciate the fact that I was the guy in that
(33:30):
band and I'm
embracing that a lot more than I used to.
And
I, you know, for all the right
reasons and at the right time, I'm trying to
(33:50):
giving into that and making music that sounds a little bit more
aligned with.
With that music and that I think
fans would appreciate more
and it wouldn't be such a shift because I made
some records before that were very different than Breaking Benjamin and it was
(34:13):
a little bit. I don't think that I, you
know, I'm interested in like drawing people back
into to my music and what I'm doing and have the career
make more sense overall.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but yeah, I'm just kind of
getting back into to my heavier roots
(34:36):
and so that. That's one thing with this record.
What else? There's a couple songs, they're. They're a little
bit more. There's a couple, like I would, for lack of a better term, like
love songs, heavier
love songs on this record
(34:56):
because I. I got married last year and so that was like
a big, obviously huge change in my life. Oh
yeah. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. So that was like a
whole mental shift in my
lifestyle and way of thinking and
there was some. A lot of like good things going
(35:19):
on when I wrote These songs. So a little
of that is definitely sprinkled in to this record,
so that's interesting. So they're. They're. There's some. They're love
songs, but they're, like, heavy, so I love
it. Are you gonna. Do
you talk. I mean, you have a vinyl out. Are you gonna tour on it?
(35:41):
You said you talked a little bit about how. Yeah. So
it's. That's so much easier said than done.
Yeah. I don't even know where to start with that. So, like, the idea of
just, like, getting a tour bus and showing up at clubs and having people there
is almost impossible. It's
(36:03):
unbelievably hard to make that happen. It's. It's. I
wish I could say otherwise, but
I could be. I could go out in a van and trailer
and go and play clubs and have, you know,
50 people there. But, dude, at my age,
(36:26):
that is. That is a hard lifestyle and a
real uphill battle. So from
my error, the way that you toured successfully is to be
on the radio, and then you generated
some sort of prior excitement to the band
coming to town to be on the radio.
(36:47):
Terrestrial radio, which I still listen to.
I still, in my car all the time, have terrestrial radio on.
So that's where I came from. Before I started, I was on for, like, 15
years, and it's where it is. But.
So to be on terrestrial radio, you have to be on a major
(37:08):
label, and I'm not obviously, on a major label. So there's
so many. There's so many roadblocks, and it's.
You know, I'm not. I don't have a viral video or
whatever. I'm not, like, a young pop star or anything of that nature.
So it's. It's tough
(37:29):
again. I think I could go out and do a really shitty
tour for, like. For not. Not
the quality of the music or my performances,
but, like, the lifestyle. Smaller shows. Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Like, not even that, but just rough in it. Probably you'd have to rough it
a bit more than you. Yes. To rough it. And, you know,
(37:53):
so I'm not opposed to that. It's just really hard to put together. And then
the other thing is, you know,
I don't have a day job,
so it's easy. You're
easier for me to be like, all right,
(38:13):
screw it. I'm gonna go out in November and I'm gonna book a
string of shows across the US and get a van and trailer and go out
and do it. Now, the very next step, which makes it
infinitely Harder is, well, who are your three
other guys going to be? Who are these three guys that don't
have day jobs and. Or don't have kids and can
(38:36):
just do that and go out and kind of make
your. My dream happen. So
that's right away gets really tough of who are those,
who are the other guys? Right? And who are the
guys that are going to go out and make it happen for you? And you're
not, you know, you're maybe not going to pay them a huge salary or something.
(38:57):
So again, you know, I might be able to do
a little acoustic tour and play, you know, smaller,
smaller places and just not have a bunch of gear and not have a
sound guy, not have a merch person. You know, the list goes on
and on and on. So that's the really hard part of my business for me
these days is getting a tour together.
(39:20):
The, the easier part is I can write songs by myself and play
all instruments. That's the easy part. It's the touring part that
and, and I still do want to tour. I'm not like,
you know, I'm too old for that. I'm just gonna watch TV tonight. Like I
still want to do it. I just haven't had the opportunities
(39:42):
to come my way. You know, I haven't had the right management in
place or the booking agents to make it all happen or
to get like an opening slot on, you know, bigger bands tour.
But again, so I'm going on and on about all the negatives, but there
are quite a few, few negatives. And I wish it wasn't so.
Right. I mean that's. That you're 100% right though. You have to hire a band,
(40:06):
right. It's not like you can't go up there and play drums, guitar,
bass, singing, right. At the same time. Right. You're going to have to
hire guys. So I have. Right. So with, with my
solo stuff, there's one main guy who's always with me
every time. His name's John Novak and he's
a great friend and a great musician. So he's been my
(40:27):
mainstay guy. So. But it's just
hard again, it's hard to lock in four guys and who
I think maybe if, you know, especially around my
age a lot, you know, almost everyone's married and has kids and the
day job and stuff. So it just, it gets more complicated as
(40:49):
you're, as you get older. When we were all like
23, nobody, nobody was married or
had kids. And we also like, there was a lot more of the
spirit of, like, it. Let's go on a tour and let's
live in a van and sleep on a floor somewhere.
But. It'S hard to get
(41:11):
psyched up for that at this age.
I'm thinking about it. I'm always like, yeah, yeah. I don't think
I could hack that. You know what I mean? Like, that's rough. And again.
Yeah. And again. When you're in a band, when you're younger,
there's a little bit more of, like, oh, we're in a gang and we're
bros, and let's
(41:33):
all sacrifice to make it happen and.
And make the dream happen. And then now,
like, when I'm a little bit more, you know, I'm doing, like, this solo thing,
it's like, well, who do you find that's gonna make
the dream happen for you? So it's a little bit weirder
in that regard, I'm finding out, you
(41:56):
know. Yeah, this record's really. This is the best.
In my opinion, The Invisible Line is. Is the best of the
bunch so far. So I'm hoping that, you know,
some more people latch on to what I'm doing and start. And start
getting it. I love what
(42:16):
you're doing, I think. Oh, thanks, dude. Records are awesome. And
I haven't heard the new one, but I do like the. I won't back down.
And obviously the. The deer. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. When we hang up, I'll email
you the new. The new what's coming out next
week. But. So I'm really proud of
(42:38):
this, and I.
Would you consider doing a. An acoustic tour, like, just yourself,
or do you feel like it wouldn't bring justice to the album? So
whenever I play, like, I played acoustic on this over this
weekend, and the show on Saturday night was
fantastic. We were back in the zone, and we were really playing well together,
(43:01):
and the place was packed and everybody was singing along, and there was
a really good vibe, so.
And I thought to myself, like, after, I was like, this is. This is what
it's all about. So. So
it's a. That's a great question. So I can.
Most of the songs carry acoustically, and
(43:23):
I. I don't like to perform solo, not because I'm
scared. I just don't think it does justice
to the songs because all my songs have harmony vocals in them,
and. I. Think every
single song I have has a guitar solo in it. And you
can't play a guitar solo by yourself. Right.
(43:46):
Right. I mean, I've seen people do, like. Maybe on acoustic, it might not work.
Either if you're. Yeah, but I mean, but you have to have someone
accompany you. I mean, I've seen people do like the
looper pedals and. Or they have like they're
rolling tape. But, you know,
it's just kind of. I don't care who you are. It's kind of boring to
(44:08):
see someone play by themselves for an extended period of time.
It's really hard to make that exciting for an extended. I don't care who you
are. The only person I saw that really carried that
for like hour and a half was Chris Cornell.
Oh, yeah, and he was. Voice, though, is insane. So. Yeah,
(44:28):
yeah. So I'm
talking like one dude I've ever seen carry an
hour and a half show by himself where you were like mesmerized.
So it's. That's really, really tough in that
department. Plus it's just more fun to play with somebody. So to answer your
question, I would do an acoustic tour. If it was like me
(44:50):
and John. I wouldn't do an acoustic tour
just myself. I just sounds lonely and
I don't think it's a good representation of what I'm
trying to do because again, I can't play guitar
solos and. Or so that's half of the fun of, you
know, what I do is like, I think people enjoy
(45:13):
seeing me. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually, I've never
heard this before until like recently then I've had a few artists on that
have talked about this and, and it's kind of off topic, but I'm just curious
if you. If you ever had this or recall this in
your. Your time. Is artists paying
(45:36):
to be on tour with a bigger band? Yeah. Is this something
that's always been around or is that. Yes. Yeah.
Interesting. I just had never heard that like a band being like, okay, yeah, you
can jump on the tour. It's going to cost you X amount of dollars because
they know that they're the draw, obviously. Obviously. And you're getting in front of people.
Yeah. So I know in. In bb. I
(45:58):
know that we paid Godsmack to open up for them. It
was a lot of money too, to be honest with you.
And it was worth it. I bet. That's what I was wondering. Yeah,
I mean, I'm sure it was a lot of money to. Yeah, because you're in
a stadium at that point. So that. Yeah, that was
(46:18):
all arenas and
Godsmack. I think it's
fair to say at that time we sold out every. They sold out every
arena. I forget if we were
like right before them or like us a band. I. For.
That was a long time ago. That was like 20 years ago. But
(46:39):
yeah, but that was the thing that you guys had done.
You, you, you. Right. So together and make a decision like, okay, like
is we're gonna get in front of this many people.
I don't think, you know, in that. It wasn't any kind of big
sit down talk. I think our manager just did it like.
Or it wasn't like somebody at the time,
(47:03):
somebody wasn't like, you guys are an independent band. It was. You had obviously been
around and signed and. Yes, so we were right. So we were
signed to a major label and it was like sort of somebody
else was paying for it. I mean we, I'm sure we paid for
it ultimately. Right. But at the
time someone else was fronting the money. It wasn't like
(47:25):
we all got together in a room and we're like, oh, let's have our
parents pull our money together. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't, I mean
it really wasn't. Not to sound like a dick, but it wasn't that big of
a deal. Yeah, but if you
were like an independent DIY band and you were
looking to jump on a tour, I'm sure it's a lot bigger
(47:47):
of a deal to get the cash together to do that.
It is pretty. I have heard a lot of people talking about
this more recently and
a. I didn't know that people didn't know that went on.
Yeah, I just had no idea. And then I also, I'm like,
(48:07):
it's not that big of a deal. It's just, it makes a lot of sense
now. I personally
wouldn't pay to be on a buy on
like in a buy on of a small ass tour
where, you know it's not going to be that packed. I personally wouldn't do
that. But would I pay to open up? For
(48:30):
Godsmoke, yes, I would. Right, right, right, right.
So I don't think it's that big a deal. I don't think it's
like illegal or anything. I mean there's,
there's modern day,
not exactly payola, but that was a big
(48:51):
issue back in the day. Like that was illegal somehow. Well,
that was with the, the radio station. But I don't even, I don't even know
why that was illegal. Who cares?
That's a great point. Yeah, but I think it was almost. It was something along
the line. There's a radio station in San Diego that got shut
down because of it. It was a hip hop station. And
(49:14):
then they flipped to an alternative station after the fact. But it was the
night DJs and stuff were getting paid and music directors are getting paid to play,
like, records from other art. Like random artists that were. They would just,
you know, take the money and put it on and. Right,
right. But I guess in the end,
in the grand scheme of things, that's all it is. And if you look at
(49:38):
radio station. There'S
so many other ways that that really happens without that
actually happening. Like, you don't. You know how
many. So to everything that
leads up to your band getting played on terrestrial radio
is all an exchange of money and deals and
(50:01):
stuff behind the scenes anyways. So when you get a record
label, there's so much stuff going on there and then there's
promotional stuff or there's. There's kickbacks
and like, hey, if you play our song,
our band will come to your summer festival and we'll play a
hundred percent. Yeah, it's. Oh, hey, I represent whatever.
(50:24):
And kickbacks and stuff going on behind the
scenes. It's not just some. Like, if someone at home
thinks it's this organic scenario of
a DJ really liked a song and he had to put it on the
airwaves, that's. That is. That hasn't happened since like
1953. That's not. That's
(50:47):
not the way that works at all. There's no such
thing. The. Occasionally there'll
be like a viral sensation these days or
like when I was growing up, the good. It wasn't on
the Internet, but it certainly was a viral event.
Was like Nirvana, Smells Like Teen Spirit.
(51:10):
Right. That was viral before it was viral and.
But again, to get Geffen Records, I'm
sure made stuff happen behind the scenes to get it
on MTV in the first place, but once it was
on there, it took on a life of its own. Sure.
But there's no. Dude, I wish there was organic
(51:33):
hits. It just doesn't work like that. Everything. And even
now you can like
sort of pay to get on Spotify playlists.
You can sponsor ads on Instagram
to get followers and this and that and the other thing. So everything's kind of
bought and paid for. I think it's
(51:56):
naive to think that your song got popular
on its own. It doesn't happen. It. So you. I
mean, I. There could be Stairway to Heaven could be on this
album, but if I don't. If someone. If I
or somebody or a label doesn't put a lot of money behind it and
hype it up and get it to the masses, no one's ever going to hear
(52:18):
that. Stairway to Heaven. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? No. It
does. 100 I'm just. Because I came from radio.
Yeah. Only the closest thing I. I had a moment in
my life and my career and the only gold record I have is
from the band the Struts. They're great. And
the. With that song could have been me. And they weren't
(52:40):
signed at the time. They had a manager who was
managing a couple other people and he knew my program director
who called me and said hey you play this song. We were an independent
station so we weren't owned by a big. But we were a
station that had been in san Diego for 30, 40 years now. What was the
name? 91X.
(53:04):
So we were. My program director called me and he
goes hey play this song or tell
me what you think. And I think you should play it. And I heard it.
I was like hell yeah I'll play. And I played it and then I just
kept playing it every night. He just let me play it. And then
other stations, you know they look at your spin report and they're like who the
(53:25):
hell is this band? The Struts. Yeah. And then they. Then we started adding it
during the day and then it. Then they got signed Interscope and then the song
can sync too. But it was. It was kind of a cool
organic thing that I got to be a part of and be the first guy
to play them in the States. And then you know. But
those that. That's the only time this ever happened when I was in the career.
(53:47):
So Mike. So you're saying that they weren't
signed. Before you played that they weren't signed to
Interscope. They were working on getting a deal. And the manager
who. But who but their manager had ties obviously with. He was
managing some big name talent
he knew. He found them and said this band's gonna be
(54:09):
huge. And he talked to our PD
and he. He told me to play the record. And they didn't have anything out.
They had one there. The album they had out was only in the UK and
it. And so nothing. It was a song from that UK
recording that they ended up re recording and putting it out later. But it was
like it was kind of a cool little piece of history to be a part
(54:30):
of at the time. But like that's. That will
now with the Internet that will never happen again. That was like 2014. Which
is probably the very last of that ever happening again.
But. Right.
There are exceptions like that to what I Was saying,
but. No, but 100 agree with what you're saying because that
(54:52):
doesn't happen. It never happens. And
I just thought it was. I got, I. I got a chance to like kind
of be in that for a minute and it was like, whoa. And like my
program director at the time was the guy that he was in on the
radio in Detroit and he discovered like Violent Femmes and he was a
guy that played. What was that
(55:14):
band called? I don't know. It was one single that was
the single. And he flipped the record over and started playing the other side and
that became the hit because he was just like kind of this guy that
was a taste maker dude and didn't really care and. But.
Yeah, that's awesome. So there are exceptions to that rule,
but it's rare, I guess a little bit
(55:38):
with my own career. There was a guy in St.
Louis who really liked the
Breaking Benjamin song Polyamorous.
So now we were signed to a major label,
but we weren't super popular yet. And he
(56:00):
did. It was presented to him as Hollywood
Records. Here's your new single now.
He did go above and beyond and played it
way more than he was like maybe supposed to. And really every
time it was on, he hyped it up. So. And it. And
St. Louis is a big city, so it became
(56:23):
a hit in that town before anywhere else.
So maybe like your strut story, there was one.
There was one guy in particular who. I don't know
how that works, but maybe he played it more often than he was supposed to.
Yeah, he probably played it a ton. And then. Yeah. And then what happens is
like other stations in the same format will look at and be
(56:46):
like, why is this station in St. Louis playing this
Breaking Benjamin song like 12 times a day? This doesn't even
make sense. And then they start playing it. Right.
They start testing it and then it bull. You know, if people. Right.
It catches fire, so to speak.
But yeah. So, you know, it's a great. I know exactly what station you're
(57:08):
talking about. And that PD is the one. One. One of the few left that
will take chances like that. Yeah. So it's rare, but it
does happen. But for you to be betting on that as an
artist, that's. That's a long shot.
Oh yeah, 100%. So then it comes back to like, why not
pay to be on a tour if you, you know you're going to get exposure?
(57:29):
Right. It's like paying an influencer to talk about your product.
Right. So full circle back to that question. I Don't think
a. I didn't know people didn't know about that. And I also don't. I don't
think it's that big of a deal. It's just a business arrangement.
Right. Yeah, I just. I had no idea somebody was telling me about that. I
was like, wait, what? Yeah. You pay to be on a tour with a big
(57:51):
deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Their crap.
They know that. They don't. It doesn't. If you're on the bill or they put
some other artists as the opener, it doesn't matter. Right?
I mean, it's still gonna be a full
packed show for that band. Yeah, yeah. Very,
very cool. Well, dude, I can't wait to hear the album. I
(58:14):
hope you do some shows that at least come to Nashville, maybe do one. That'd
be cool. That'd be cool. I. I
don't know what the clubs are down there. What's like the rock club? I know
all the country ones are famous for country, but. Well, there's a. I mean,
basement East. The East. And
(58:34):
there's. I'm trying to. I mean, there's Brick by
Brooklyn bowl, which is a gotcha. About a thousand
people or so. 11. Oh, wow. Yeah. I
mean, basement. Basement East. Those are,
you know, a couple hundred. Cab. Nice. Five hundred. Yeah, that'd
be good. Yeah. If you know any rock bands down there that could come open
(58:57):
up for. That'd be. I know a ton of rock bands.
We'll talk, you know, email me or something after we get off.
100. Yeah. Because I want to see you and I want to see the show.
I'd be very, very interested in coming down and open it up
for somebody or. Or something of that. You know, of that.
(59:17):
Some scenario like that. That'd be awesome. That would be killer. Well,
I appreciate your time, Aaron. Thank you, man, so much again for doing this again.
Yeah. I'll send you the new album when we get off here,
so. Love it. I have one more question. I asked you this last two times.
I'm gonna ask you if you have any advice for aspiring artists.
(59:39):
Quit. No, I mean on
rants about all this negative stuff.
So there is a lot
more control over stuff that
you do. And you can kind of. With
(01:00:02):
technology, it's way cheaper. You can kind of self produce your own music
in your. In your basement and. And you can get
pretty good results
and you can self promote and. And do
things like that, which you couldn't do way back in the day
(01:00:23):
if you're looking to make any money. It's.
It's tough, dude. There's no back end on. On your
music. There's, you know, everything streamed for free
and shows. It's tough in that regard.
So you got to do it for the most pure of reasons. You have
(01:00:46):
to really be passionate about music and really have some
sort of artistic vision that you're. You're trying to get
across and have some
sort of, like, love of the game,
you know, unless it's some sort of viral sensation or
(01:01:08):
you're like, you win. I don't even know. I don't know if American
Idols as popular as it used to be, but like, if you won that
or something. But it's tough then. And the marketplace is kind of
flooded with a million different things, so
it's hard for the consumer to know what's what.
(01:01:29):
But it's tough. I. I think in one, in some regards, like I was saying,
it's easier than it used to be. It. You, you know,
it used. You have to. You used to have to go to a big expensive
studio, so. And instruments used to cost a lot
more than they used to, and things of that nature have
changed to make it easier to do
(01:01:51):
DIY stuff. But again, the marketplace is flooded
and it's like, you know, we're in this
like, scrolling culture where it's like, oh,
shit, he put out a new record. And then you just scroll down and the
next thing is like, you know, my dog died. And then
you scroll down and it's like Donald Trump. And
(01:02:13):
you scroll down and it's like, you know, it's. It's
just. You're just combined. Your life's projects
are just combined in with scrolling
to the next thing, and it just kind of becomes. Everything's these
short clips of like, you
know, like, I made a video for that Tom Petty
(01:02:36):
song I just put out. And the short,
you know, it was an interesting experiment to see. I put out a little short
clip of the video and that was
viewed and more successful than the actual video,
you know, so I'm like, so we're living in that culture
where it's just. You're just
(01:03:00):
part of everything else that everybody else is putting
out. And it's just kind of, you know, it's more of
a. You're a blip on the radar.
But, you know, this is the world we live in. So I think it's harder
in that regard to really punch through and, and really
(01:03:20):
connect with people because there's just a million
other things you're scrolling by. And
I don't know, I hopefully all this political
calms down at some point because it's just been like,
(01:03:40):
what's it been? Like eight, nine years of just
crazy. Like, you know, when we were kids, it was
just like, you know, Ronald Reagan was president and
it seemed fine. No one worried
it was it right. Bill Clinton was president and there was a little
bit of like, some stuff that people got jazzed
(01:04:03):
up about, but it wasn't overwhelming. And it didn't like, have the sense
of like, all is
unwell it. Back in the day, it was just like
the president was who he was and it was nothing crazy. It was
just kind of people went about their business and it wasn't
overwhelming and you weren't bombarded with all this stuff and
(01:04:26):
people and all this divisiveness and stuff. So, you know,
there's that. I don't know. Again, I think that just comes back to the music
thing where it's like you're just kind of
feathered in with everything else that's going on in the world,
or you're feathered in with everybody
else's kind of posts about random stuff. And
(01:04:49):
so I think in that regard it's harder to punch through
unless you're kind of a bigger artist or
grandfathered in from back in the day where your
brand name means something to somebody, you know,
(01:05:09):
bringing it backward,
bringing it backward, bringing it backward,
bringing it backward, bringing it backward,
bring it backwards.
What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast
where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories
of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had a chance
to hang out with Aaron Fink over Zoom Video.
This is actually the third time we've had Aaron on the
podcast. We had him on a couple of times in
(00:21):
2021, March, and then in August, the first time with his
band Earshot and then alongside Nick
with the band Lifer. This time around, Aaron joined us
to talk about his brand new album which is
called the Invisible Line. We kind of recapped a little bit on the first two
interviews we had, but we talked a lot about Aaron's solo
(00:43):
project and he gets into detail about his process when
it comes to writing for Earshot or Lifer or for himself
and how he plays all of the instruments on his solo
project, talks about the recording process of this new album.
So we really do a deep dive into Aaron's creative
process when it comes to working on
(01:06):
songs and records solely for his solo project.
You can watch the interview with Aaron on our Facebook page and YouTube
channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be amazing if you subscribe to our channel
like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and tick tock at
Bringing back Pod and. And if you're listening to this on Spotify,
Apple Music, Google podcasts, it would be incredible if you follow us
(01:28):
there as well and hook us up with a five star review.
We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're Bringing. It Backwards with
Aaron Fink.
Bringing it backwards.
(01:52):
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it
backwards.
Hey, what's up Aaron? How are you man? What's up dude?
I'm good, man. How are you? Excellent.
(02:12):
Awesome. Thank you so much for, for doing this. I'm super excited
to have you on again. Yeah, me too. I think it's been,
I don't know, at least two years since we talked or something. Right? Yeah,
I think last time it was with Lifer.
Yeah, very nice. Yeah. So it was.
(02:33):
Yeah, there the first time it was just you with Earshot. I think
I want to say yer. Maybe Nick was on with
you Believe. Does that make sense? Yeah,
Always doing something, it's hard to keep track. Yeah,
man, well, yeah, you got so much going on all the time.
(02:53):
Well, I again, I appreciate you doing it again. So you kind of know what
the drill. We talk about you and your journey in music and
you said you have a new album? Yep. My new
record's called the Invisible Line and that'll be out, I think
in September. I'm gonna release, you
know, what. What the kids Call, I guess Drip It Out. I don't know.
(03:15):
I'm excited, dude. Yeah. The most recent one that you put out was I Went
Back Down. Is that the newest one? Yeah, that was just Tom
Petty cover that I did. I. I thought, yeah,
just kind of put out something familiar
just to kind of stir the waters for. For my songs that'll come out later.
I know that's a song that's been done a million times, but I kind of
(03:38):
put my own spin on it. It's a little bit different than. Than you think.
No. 100. Yeah, I think it's a rad, really rad
version of the song. Oh, thanks, dude.
Yeah. And then after I recorded that, I had seen
that there was a country compilation
coming out of all his songs and I was like, ah, man. So that
(04:01):
was kind of bad timing. But I put out my song,
get him to it. Right. Theirs came out first. Oh, there's
just came out first. I had recorded that and then I saw in the
news that that was coming out. I was like, ah. But I mean, it has
been covered before. And like I said, all the versions I heard very
like to the T, just straight up exactly like
(04:23):
his. And I was like, I didn't see the point in
trying to replicate something that was already great the way it was the first
time. So I made mine different.
Love it. Love it. Well, I guess for the people that
haven't, they should go back and watch the first two interviews. Lifer and
earshot to get your. Dive into it. But
(04:45):
we'll just recap a little bit and kind of pick up where we, you know,
left off with what's been going on since
last interview with. With Life. I think you had an album out at the time.
Yeah, we put out consecutive singles.
We never made a full length record. So that
(05:07):
band as it is today, we put out a record in
2001 and then
2020ish. We put out like five
singles in a row. So. Okay, that's what it was. Yeah, maybe it was
Hate Me, Love Me. I think maybe it was a single at the time. I
can't remember. Oh, yeah, yeah. So,
(05:27):
right, so where we stand with that? It was one album and five singles, so.
Okay. Right on. So originally,
tell me again, where are you originally born and raised? Right.
I was born in New York state upstate, but I kind of.
I Moved to Pennsylvania in the early 80s and have lived here
(05:49):
ever since. Okay. Yeah. I thought you still were there. Yeah,
yeah. Where are you at right now? You're in Nashville. Nashville,
yeah. First time I talked to you, I was in San Diego,
and then we moved to Nashville. Yes. The last
time we spoke, I had been in. Yeah, we had moved to Nashville maybe like
a year, and then now, obviously still here. Love it in Nashville.
(06:10):
Yeah. I was just down there about two weeks ago.
I went down to a little town called
Hendersonville. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Just. That's like thinking
north of Nashville. Yeah. So
I finished up some tracks for the new Earshot record.
So I was down in. Oh, rad. So you guys record it in Nashville area?
(06:34):
We did half of it in Florida and then we finished up in
Nashville. Awesome. So awesome.
Yeah. So you're in. Still in Pennsylvania, and that's kind
of where. I mean, that's where life started. Right. And that was kind
of the. Was that the first band? And then you eventually joined
Breaking Benjamin, like, years later. Right. And were you
(06:56):
embraced? So Breaking Benjamin came first, actually.
And. And. But the first incarnation of it didn't last
very long, and that was in the late 90s. And
then we kind of became Strange with
Candy, which became Lifer. Oh, sure. Okay.
And then I went back to Breaking Benjamin. So
(07:18):
it was kind of a, you know, a complicated,
convoluted mix there of a lot of the same guys in the same area
and kind of, you know, stirring it up.
And then Breaking Benjamin obviously hit really big.
So that took off and, you know, that started a whole series
(07:39):
change. Probably changed your life quite a bit for.
It did. Yeah. Horse. For a while. Yeah. Yeah.
So, okay. Just because we've already kind of went over all these things before in
the. In the other interviews. I just. Let's pick up then with. With, you
know, you. You released a single with. With lifer in, like, 2020
(08:00):
or 2022, I think. 2021. 2022. When that. That came
out and then, you know, from there. When do you start working on this
album? You know, your solo stuff, like, when you have so many
things going on, it sounds like you just record an earshot record. I mean,
you have a lot to. Yeah. You know, kind of going on here,
so. I'm always working. I do. You know,
(08:23):
I never counted it, but I'm sure I put in about 40 hours a week,
as, like, one would with a, you know, regular job.
So I'm always writing. I'm not always writing,
actually. It's funny, I think about it, I go through.
I usually always write in the winter. I don't know why.
(08:43):
I guess in Pennsylvania, there's just a lot of, like, indoor time,
and that seems to be when I create a lot of stuff.
And then. So
this past winter, I wrote most of these songs
coming up that'll be coming up on the Invisible Line
record, but. And then I recorded them in January
(09:07):
and February in a studio in the Poconos,
which people kind of know. Pennsylvania for the mountains,
but. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then Earshot
was written and recorded last summer. So
it's. That album's taken forever to kind of get done. So.
But that. So that's kind of been in the can, so to speak,
(09:29):
at least creatively, for well over a year.
But I am writing a lot and recording with different
things and keeping busy. I'd like to play more shows,
but in tour some more. But it's just,
you know, it's. It's tough these days to get that going. And
(09:51):
it's. Yeah, really. It's not the same as it was. It's. It's a lot
harder with Lifer. Like,
is that you. I mean, you said you put one album out, but then, you
know, five singles or so. Is that band
more. You guys just kind of get together when
you feel like. I. Is that more of just get together
(10:13):
when you can type deal, and then you focus more on your shot and obviously
what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we broke
up obviously there for a long time, at least
16, 17 years. And then we got back together,
and then the pandemic happened. So that
kind of made things very
(10:35):
odd. And then Nick
Singer. Yeah. Say the least. So Nick. And then
Nick, the sing of Lifer,
was in the band Cold for a while. Yeah. So
he was torn with that, actually. The drummer of Lifers also
in Cold. So two of those guys from Lifer went
(10:57):
to Cold. I think the basis of Cold has been on my show
before. It's a. She's the female. Correct. I
forgot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had her on. Yeah.
So that put kind of Lifer on ice for a while,
and then I started getting back into my solo stuff.
(11:18):
So, you know, like, we're not broken up. We're just kind of
on ice for a minute while everybody's pursuing
other things, you know? Yeah, yeah. No 100.
And then you did. Yeah. Earshot, obviously, has just
kind of been something that's continued on. Yeah, I do
that whenever, you know, duty calls.
(11:40):
That's kind of a strange setup. We all Live in different states.
And so it's not like a thing where
we're hardly ever in the same room together. So
I do that when, you know,
when I'm asked to, basically. But. Okay, so
(12:01):
the thing that I focus on the most is my solo stuff and I, I
do that and I gig around, you know, gig and records
and. And have practices and you know,
so that's the main thing that I'm doing these days. Yeah, because you
had an. You put out Dear Universe.
But that was even before. That was after we had talked. So you hadn't even
(12:23):
put that album out yet. Yeah. So we missed an album cycle.
Yeah. So. Okay. So. I mean. Well, I
guess. Yeah. Just tell me about going into. I mean you have. You've been putting
out albums under your own solstice for a long time,
right? I mean for years you've had like what's gonna be like your fifth album,
right? I think it's the sixth. Sixth
(12:46):
album. Yeah. Okay. Six albums under your belt.
Under. Yeah. Under your solo stuff. Like
it would have loosely have plans to make 10
a la Quentin Tarantino. Okay,
well then why did you just. What? Change. Change it to something else? Well,
(13:06):
I heard, I saw an interview with him and he was. And he gave us
great interview and he said he's gonna make 10 movies. And I was like,
that's. That's genius. So like I'm at
six. So I. I loosely have plans to make
ten. So four more coming.
But yep. So Dear Universe
(13:29):
came out. I think that came out in 2022.
And that's a. I'm really proud of that record. So that was my
kind of return to slightly
heavier, slightly more produced music.
I. I got into a vibe there
(13:49):
where I was making more roots rock type stuff
and less like very raw
sounding records. And so now with, with.
With Dear Universe and the Invisible Line, they're a little bit heavier,
which I know people know me for. Nothing crazy,
not like stuff I'm hearing younger people put out
(14:15):
Crazy heavy. To me it's like so, you know,
it's more like, I guess dad rock. But.
When it comes to like writing, like you said with, with
Earshot, you all live in different states. Like are you writing with
those, I mean for that band as well, alongside your
(14:35):
solo stuff or is it totally different? Like you're just mainly when you, when you're
writing, when you sit down and write, is it basically you're trying to usually write
for your. Your own project?
It's a good question, I think when I write.
So when I'm working with Earshot. I'm writing the
(14:56):
music, right? Writing the lyrics
or the melody. So
it's mostly with Lifer. Every now and then I write lyrics with Lifer.
But so with those two bands, that's more
of like when I'm doing straight up riffs or
(15:18):
verse beds or chorus beds,
I usually ship them out to either Life or Earshot
because I know I'm not the singer in those bands or the
lyricist. So I'm like, this is a great music
bed. I'll let Will or Nick sing over it and
do their thing. When I have like song
(15:40):
titles or lyrics going or melodies I
usually lean towards, well, that's going to be one of my songs because
I have a clear finished version
for the tunes. And you know,
I'm like, all right, I'm gonna sing this one. So. And I. Or I feel
very strongly about the lyrics because they're personal or, you
(16:01):
know, so they. They get reserved for. For
my thing. So when you write songs for yourself, does it
start with the lyrics or with the melody that you
come up with instead of like maybe sitting down and you're like, oh, this is
a pretty rocking riff. Or this is a cool. Like this would make a
cool chorus. Let me give it to those two bands.
(16:23):
Or sometimes are you like, this is a pretty rock and riff and you have
a melody in your head and you kind of just right along to it then
that way. Yeah, I mean, it differs. I mean
usually. I mean, I'm sure you've heard other artists say that usually the best
songs are the ones you write in like 10 minutes and they
seem to all fall in place. They seems that those seem to be the
(16:44):
songs that stand the test of time for me. I notice
the songs I labor over and I'm like, oh, I can't
finish this. Or this part isn't right. Or they're kind of
like a Frankenstein piece of us. The part of a song,
a part of a song and a riff from here and you glue them together.
Those part. Those seem to be. For whatever reasons this. The
(17:06):
songs that don't stand the test of time for me.
So. But you know, I have. Have riffs laying around and
I. I stockpile stuff and I'll have
just a riff and I'll be like, ah, it's kind of unfinished.
Or usually with me. Or
maybe heavier riffs. Go to
(17:28):
Earshot or Lifer because they're heavier bands and
my stuff is a little bit more straight up rock and roll. It's not
like, sure, heavy music. So like Maybe
the big, crunchier stuff goes to those. To those
projects. But
(17:48):
a lot of times with my stuff, I strangely start with
just a song title. So I have, like, on
my phone, I just think of song titles. I have, like, 200 song
titles sitting there. And then.
So that's lyrically a lot where I'll. I'll start
with just the title and then.
(18:11):
But yeah, it's weird. Like I said, I go through periods. Like, I wrote
most of the Invisible Line in
November and December last year, and they don't kind of.
I'll really get hyper focused on, like, all right, I'm in a songwriting
zone, and all my creative
processes are done in the morning, over a cup of coffee.
(18:35):
I'm not. I'm not a late night guy.
I'm not a chemically induced guy.
It's so boring. I'm, like, stone sober.
Nine in the morning, fired up, cup of coffee. Like, I know
it's not very rock and roll, Sonny, but that's just the way I work. I
get. Usually those are the best songs. I'm stone sober, too, but you
(18:58):
know what I mean? Like, you. I feel like once people start to use, like,
a crutch, like, oh, I need to be, like, really stoned, and then the vibe,
it's like, he probably doesn't. Yeah, for me, it's. For
me, that's not the way I'm pretty. You know, I was
fortunate. I was. I came from a creative family. My dad's a writer,
my sister's a painter. And the arts were always encouraged
(19:21):
in our household. And we kind of like, you know,
some families would go to, like, Walt Disney World. We went to, like, a
museum. So it was, like, pretty boring. That's so rad.
So, like, I could convince my kids to do that, right? Well, it
was a different era. Disneyland. I know there was
no phones to stare at, but I think my point was, like,
(19:44):
creativity was always encouraged and
in my family. So, like, I always had. I think I'm just
kind of maybe hardwired in that department. So,
you know, I look like a guy that smokes weed all day, but actually, I
don't smoke weed at all, and I don't.
(20:06):
So I don't need, like. I'm not saying I'm not. Not against
any other stuff. I'm just saying I don't use that stuff to kind of find
my creativity. I. I feel like life
and situations and events and. And getting
older and, you know, even being a father
or this and that are the kind of things that inspire me to Write.
(20:29):
And I don't really need to, you know, break out the psychedelics
to. To get weird. I can kind of get weird on my
own.
You do. Like, I know a lot of artists talk about the
artist's way, that book. Or they talk about morning pages and getting up and
writing. Like, is you. Is that part of your routine at all? Like you
(20:51):
get up and just start like brain dumping, just everything. Or
is it focus on writing something?
Right. I've heard a lot of like
Nashville style songwriters say they
write every day no matter what, like a schedule.
I'm not like that. If something comes to me,
(21:14):
I'll hopefully can set aside some time in my day
to focus on it. If something comes to me and I'm like, I'll never remember
that. I just record it on my phone acapella. Or
if I. If there's a guitar laying around. But
I'm not strict about it. It's just if. When it comes to me, it comes
(21:34):
to me, but I don't make it a. It's not like going to the gym
or something for me. If it's. It's not like we're doing this
Monday at 9. So if it comes. It comes to me. If it comes to
Coming. Yeah. With your. I mean to.
I love the fact you put out all albums and then you're like, I'm gonna
do 10. You know, instead of the. The
(21:55):
new thing with you do a single and put it out
and you gotta. It's space. And then we're gonna release
five total and then it just all ends now. This EP
or whatever. Like when you, when you write like
for this new album or even Dear Universe, like, do you have
a, like a through line that you kind of start to see and then you
(22:17):
start like, okay, I know this is going to be kind of the concept of
the album. I mean, not saying that it is a concept album, but you know,
albums have some sort of through line
in place. Like. Yeah,
that's a good question. I don't think that I've made a
concept album yet. Although for the next
(22:39):
one I do have a theme in mind.
I think so. I read a lot and I
have quite a few songs stockpiled.
I think I kind of get into a zone. So I am still
an album mentality guy. It's probably because of my age.
(23:01):
I just personally think albums are cooler.
I agree. If you looked back and you were
like, remember when Pearl Jam released that song Alive?
I just don't think it has the same ring
to it or the nostalgia Quality of. Remember
(23:22):
when they released that album 10. Right. And I
also feel like it's not. The longevity isn't there either. You're not going to be
like, yeah, oh, I like this. I mean,
obviously music is changing and everything's changing and everyone's so like, quick,
quick, quick. But like to be a band
like Pearl Jam, you know, you, those, those
(23:45):
are the bands that are gonna stand the test of time because they have a
full album of songs that is that people like everything.
I think so. I think so. I think so.
And like, you know, it's been brought to my
attention by more business minded people of like, just release a
song at a time and I'm just like, I hear you and
(24:08):
I know that's what everybody else does, but it's just, it's just
not what I strive to do. I mean, I
would be interested in doing an ep, but just
a song. I also, again, I just write so much, I'm like,
well, I might as well just put them out. Even if, you know, maybe
say the 9th, 8th, 9th, 10th song aren't as strong as the other.
(24:31):
It still felt at the time some sort of snapshot
of where my head was at and what I was doing and
what I was into at the moment. So.
And again, coming back maybe Tarantino movies, I'm
a huge film buff and I wouldn't want
(24:51):
to see just a scene, right?
Or dogs. I want to see the whole movie. So like that's where
his head was at at the time and that's his
snapshot. So I don't know. You know, call me
crazy, I'm just, I'm into, I'm into albums. It's also,
you know, it's, they're, it's more expensive than people think
(25:14):
to make a good album. And you know, it sucks that they're kind
of for free at this point. Although I did
press, I actually have it laying right here. I
pressed vinyl, the new record. Oh, wow.
That's the COVID Awesome. That's such a rad cover. Oh, thanks, dude.
So that's the invisible line. I have a couple. I just got
(25:38):
copies in the mail, but so I did. So
hopefully I can make a buck or two because it's just so, so damn
expensive to make, to make records. So I still go to
studios and I still hire guys. And
I'm not like, I'm DIY in the sense that I'm
not on a big label, but I'm not diy like in the sense that
(26:00):
I'm gonna do it all in my Basement and for. On. On. On
the cheap. I still, you know, do it
up a little bit. So it's hard to make a buck on the back end.
But I don't know. I'm rambling here, but.
Yeah, yeah. No, so, like, with that, I mean, when you write
(26:21):
a bunch of songs, are you. Yeah. Kind of start seeing, like, oh,
this. I think this could be an album, or this. These are all kind
of work. You. You could lay them out in a way where it would sound
like an album. Or once you get to that point, are you recording a lot
of just the demos at your house by yourself or.
And is that. Are you. Are you recording everything yourself? Yes.
(26:45):
So I have a little studio set up here at the house, and
I. Actually were in your studio one of the times I talked to you, maybe.
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm actually pretty
damn fluent in all the rock. Basic
rock instruments. I've been playing drums as long as I've been playing
guitar. I remember that was like, one of your first instruments, right? Or was that.
(27:07):
Yeah, so. So. And. And my
music isn't incredibly complicated on the drum,
so I can play all my own songs just fine.
And I. So I write, you know, I play bass
guitar, piano, sing,
obviously, so I get all. All my ideas I can flesh
(27:30):
out all by myself. And
it's kind of a lonely process, but there is. There is a beauty to
it. And, like, it is satisfying to some degree.
So, like, if I'm like, oh, this song should have this drum beat, I go
out and I record it and make it happen. And then
lately I've been farming that
(27:53):
out to, like, you
know, at least in the drum department. I'm like, well,
I think there's a guy that could probably play this a little bit
better than me. So let's do that. They have the idea,
but you give them. It's not like you just send the parts that don't have
drums and. Yeah. Your own part to it. Right. So, you know,
(28:18):
going back to movies, basically, I write the whole script
and then I have actors come in
and. And bring it to life and make it better
than it would have been just on paper,
if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So do you utilize, like, a
producer in the sense of, like, helping you try to enhance
(28:40):
the song or so? So I guess, like.
Yeah. Other ideas or. No. Yeah, I pretty much
produced the Invisible Line and Dear
Universe. I had great studio
owner, engineer guys that really
helped it come to life. But as far as,
(29:02):
like, overseeing all the creative process and stuff,
I do that for better or for worse. But I'm
kind of good at seeing where this should go here and this
go here and overall picture. And I've been doing this for a long. This is.
I made a lot of records, so, like, like
I know a thing or two about a thing or two at this point. Right.
(29:26):
So now
it would be cool to
do an album where I don't flesh everything
out beforehand and maybe just have sketches.
And I would be curious to see, to give
(29:47):
someone else, like, total creative
license with it and just
have like, I got the lyrics, the melody, and just the guitar
and like, let someone else maybe fill in all the blanks. I
might, I would be open to that. It just hasn't happened that
way yet. Again, like a producer in mind that you
(30:10):
would want. Or is it like you have no idea? I don't know.
It'd be, you know, it would take some trust, I
was gonna say. Yeah, you have to give up a lot of control on that.
Yeah. So I'm open to that. I don't, you know, it hasn't happened. But
again too, it's like,
(30:31):
well, I can play the drums. So, like, I'll just play, I'll
just write the drum part. So, like. Right.
That's on the album. I mean, it's
not like an ego thing. It's just like, well, I can,
I'll play the drum beat I'm hearing on this. So
again, I think if I didn't have that skill set,
(30:55):
I, if I was just someone that kind of strum the guitar or whatever, I
might just have, you know, I hear artists, newer
artists, even like pop songs where I can tell they. Someone just
had chords and a lyric or something. And then a producer,
producer made it with all this fancy underneath of it.
So I, I, I hear how music is made that way
(31:18):
where a producer takes a basic
idea and puts all this crazy, you know,
effects on it and stuff like that. But my music's a little bit more like
straight up rock and roll, so. Yeah, well, makes
sense. I mean, because obviously a producer will then have their thumbprint on it in
a way. Like, I mean, if you heard a certain producer, you, yeah. And you
(31:38):
listen to that. Whether it's they wrote a song for X, Y or
Z artists, they all kind of have their own
vibe underlined in all
those songs. Right. You know what I mean? So it almost like with
this being your solo stuff and your
ideas and it would all, it all is just, okay, this is what I want
(32:00):
it to sound like and this is what it's going to sound like there's. There's
no. It's not a band setting in a way. Right. It's more. It's
just you. Right. Again, I would be
curious to make an album like that where I was just. I didn't
overthink it to death and I just had the chords and the
melody and the lyrics and I would be
(32:22):
interested to make an album that way. I just haven't yet.
Okay, well, with this, with this new album, like kind of. Tell me
about the. The like what it's. Is there.
Is there like a kind of through line con. A concept album? But like, is
there like the album about. And like.
Yeah. So it's a little bit heavier,
(32:46):
a little bit. Nothing crazy, but it just has a little bit
more of an edge and you know, the guitars are a
little detuned and kind of heavier
because I know, you know, obviously I'm quite aware that
people mostly know me as the guy from Breaking
Benjamin. So you
(33:09):
know, there was a part of me that for a while there that was like,
well, I'm not in that band anymore and if I
have to kind of forge my own path now going forward. But
in recent years I've come back full circle and
I really appreciate the fact that I was the guy in that
(33:30):
band and I'm
embracing that a lot more than I used to.
And
I, you know, for all the right
reasons and at the right time, I'm trying to
(33:50):
giving into that and making music that sounds a little bit more
aligned with.
With that music and that I think
fans would appreciate more
and it wouldn't be such a shift because I made
some records before that were very different than Breaking Benjamin and it was
(34:13):
a little bit. I don't think that I, you
know, I'm interested in like drawing people back
into to my music and what I'm doing and have the career
make more sense overall.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but yeah, I'm just kind of
getting back into to my heavier roots
(34:36):
and so that. That's one thing with this record.
What else? There's a couple songs, they're. They're a little
bit more. There's a couple, like I would, for lack of a better term, like
love songs, heavier
love songs on this record
(34:56):
because I. I got married last year and so that was like
a big, obviously huge change in my life. Oh
yeah. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. So that was like a
whole mental shift in my
lifestyle and way of thinking and
there was some. A lot of like good things going
(35:19):
on when I wrote These songs. So a little
of that is definitely sprinkled in to this record,
so that's interesting. So they're. They're. There's some. They're love
songs, but they're, like, heavy, so I love
it. Are you gonna. Do
you talk. I mean, you have a vinyl out. Are you gonna tour on it?
(35:41):
You said you talked a little bit about how. Yeah. So
it's. That's so much easier said than done.
Yeah. I don't even know where to start with that. So, like, the idea of
just, like, getting a tour bus and showing up at clubs and having people there
is almost impossible. It's
(36:03):
unbelievably hard to make that happen. It's. It's. I
wish I could say otherwise, but
I could be. I could go out in a van and trailer
and go and play clubs and have, you know,
50 people there. But, dude, at my age,
(36:26):
that is. That is a hard lifestyle and a
real uphill battle. So from
my error, the way that you toured successfully is to be
on the radio, and then you generated
some sort of prior excitement to the band
coming to town to be on the radio.
(36:47):
Terrestrial radio, which I still listen to.
I still, in my car all the time, have terrestrial radio on.
So that's where I came from. Before I started, I was on for, like, 15
years, and it's where it is. But.
So to be on terrestrial radio, you have to be on a major
(37:08):
label, and I'm not obviously, on a major label. So there's
so many. There's so many roadblocks, and it's.
You know, I'm not. I don't have a viral video or
whatever. I'm not, like, a young pop star or anything of that nature.
So it's. It's tough
(37:29):
again. I think I could go out and do a really shitty
tour for, like. For not. Not
the quality of the music or my performances,
but, like, the lifestyle. Smaller shows. Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Like, not even that, but just rough in it. Probably you'd have to rough it
a bit more than you. Yes. To rough it. And, you know,
(37:53):
so I'm not opposed to that. It's just really hard to put together. And then
the other thing is, you know,
I don't have a day job,
so it's easy. You're
easier for me to be like, all right,
(38:13):
screw it. I'm gonna go out in November and I'm gonna book a
string of shows across the US and get a van and trailer and go out
and do it. Now, the very next step, which makes it
infinitely Harder is, well, who are your three
other guys going to be? Who are these three guys that don't
have day jobs and. Or don't have kids and can
(38:36):
just do that and go out and kind of make
your. My dream happen. So
that's right away gets really tough of who are those,
who are the other guys? Right? And who are the
guys that are going to go out and make it happen for you? And you're
not, you know, you're maybe not going to pay them a huge salary or something.
(38:57):
So again, you know, I might be able to do
a little acoustic tour and play, you know, smaller,
smaller places and just not have a bunch of gear and not have a
sound guy, not have a merch person. You know, the list goes on
and on and on. So that's the really hard part of my business for me
these days is getting a tour together.
(39:20):
The, the easier part is I can write songs by myself and play
all instruments. That's the easy part. It's the touring part that
and, and I still do want to tour. I'm not like,
you know, I'm too old for that. I'm just gonna watch TV tonight. Like I
still want to do it. I just haven't had the opportunities
(39:42):
to come my way. You know, I haven't had the right management in
place or the booking agents to make it all happen or
to get like an opening slot on, you know, bigger bands tour.
But again, so I'm going on and on about all the negatives, but there
are quite a few, few negatives. And I wish it wasn't so.
Right. I mean that's. That you're 100% right though. You have to hire a band,
(40:06):
right. It's not like you can't go up there and play drums, guitar,
bass, singing, right. At the same time. Right. You're going to have to
hire guys. So I have. Right. So with, with my
solo stuff, there's one main guy who's always with me
every time. His name's John Novak and he's
a great friend and a great musician. So he's been my
(40:27):
mainstay guy. So. But it's just
hard again, it's hard to lock in four guys and who
I think maybe if, you know, especially around my
age a lot, you know, almost everyone's married and has kids and the
day job and stuff. So it just, it gets more complicated as
(40:49):
you're, as you get older. When we were all like
23, nobody, nobody was married or
had kids. And we also like, there was a lot more of the
spirit of, like, it. Let's go on a tour and let's
live in a van and sleep on a floor somewhere.
But. It'S hard to get
(41:11):
psyched up for that at this age.
I'm thinking about it. I'm always like, yeah, yeah. I don't think
I could hack that. You know what I mean? Like, that's rough. And again.
Yeah. And again. When you're in a band, when you're younger,
there's a little bit more of, like, oh, we're in a gang and we're
bros, and let's
(41:33):
all sacrifice to make it happen and.
And make the dream happen. And then now,
like, when I'm a little bit more, you know, I'm doing, like, this solo thing,
it's like, well, who do you find that's gonna make
the dream happen for you? So it's a little bit weirder
in that regard, I'm finding out, you
(41:56):
know. Yeah, this record's really. This is the best.
In my opinion, The Invisible Line is. Is the best of the
bunch so far. So I'm hoping that, you know,
some more people latch on to what I'm doing and start. And start
getting it. I love what
(42:16):
you're doing, I think. Oh, thanks, dude. Records are awesome. And
I haven't heard the new one, but I do like the. I won't back down.
And obviously the. The deer. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. When we hang up, I'll email
you the new. The new what's coming out next
week. But. So I'm really proud of
(42:38):
this, and I.
Would you consider doing a. An acoustic tour, like, just yourself,
or do you feel like it wouldn't bring justice to the album? So
whenever I play, like, I played acoustic on this over this
weekend, and the show on Saturday night was
fantastic. We were back in the zone, and we were really playing well together,
(43:01):
and the place was packed and everybody was singing along, and there was
a really good vibe, so.
And I thought to myself, like, after, I was like, this is. This is what
it's all about. So. So
it's a. That's a great question. So I can.
Most of the songs carry acoustically, and
(43:23):
I. I don't like to perform solo, not because I'm
scared. I just don't think it does justice
to the songs because all my songs have harmony vocals in them,
and. I. Think every
single song I have has a guitar solo in it. And you
can't play a guitar solo by yourself. Right.
(43:46):
Right. I mean, I've seen people do, like. Maybe on acoustic, it might not work.
Either if you're. Yeah, but I mean, but you have to have someone
accompany you. I mean, I've seen people do like the
looper pedals and. Or they have like they're
rolling tape. But, you know,
it's just kind of. I don't care who you are. It's kind of boring to
(44:08):
see someone play by themselves for an extended period of time.
It's really hard to make that exciting for an extended. I don't care who you
are. The only person I saw that really carried that
for like hour and a half was Chris Cornell.
Oh, yeah, and he was. Voice, though, is insane. So. Yeah,
(44:28):
yeah. So I'm
talking like one dude I've ever seen carry an
hour and a half show by himself where you were like mesmerized.
So it's. That's really, really tough in that
department. Plus it's just more fun to play with somebody. So to answer your
question, I would do an acoustic tour. If it was like me
(44:50):
and John. I wouldn't do an acoustic tour
just myself. I just sounds lonely and
I don't think it's a good representation of what I'm
trying to do because again, I can't play guitar
solos and. Or so that's half of the fun of, you
know, what I do is like, I think people enjoy
(45:13):
seeing me. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually, I've never
heard this before until like recently then I've had a few artists on that
have talked about this and, and it's kind of off topic, but I'm just curious
if you. If you ever had this or recall this in
your. Your time. Is artists paying
(45:36):
to be on tour with a bigger band? Yeah. Is this something
that's always been around or is that. Yes. Yeah.
Interesting. I just had never heard that like a band being like, okay, yeah, you
can jump on the tour. It's going to cost you X amount of dollars because
they know that they're the draw, obviously. Obviously. And you're getting in front of people.
Yeah. So I know in. In bb. I
(45:58):
know that we paid Godsmack to open up for them. It
was a lot of money too, to be honest with you.
And it was worth it. I bet. That's what I was wondering. Yeah,
I mean, I'm sure it was a lot of money to. Yeah, because you're in
a stadium at that point. So that. Yeah, that was
(46:18):
all arenas and
Godsmack. I think it's
fair to say at that time we sold out every. They sold out every
arena. I forget if we were
like right before them or like us a band. I. For.
That was a long time ago. That was like 20 years ago. But
(46:39):
yeah, but that was the thing that you guys had done.
You, you, you. Right. So together and make a decision like, okay, like
is we're gonna get in front of this many people.
I don't think, you know, in that. It wasn't any kind of big
sit down talk. I think our manager just did it like.
Or it wasn't like somebody at the time,
(47:03):
somebody wasn't like, you guys are an independent band. It was. You had obviously been
around and signed and. Yes, so we were right. So we were
signed to a major label and it was like sort of somebody
else was paying for it. I mean we, I'm sure we paid for
it ultimately. Right. But at the
time someone else was fronting the money. It wasn't like
(47:25):
we all got together in a room and we're like, oh, let's have our
parents pull our money together. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't, I mean
it really wasn't. Not to sound like a dick, but it wasn't that big of
a deal. Yeah, but if you
were like an independent DIY band and you were
looking to jump on a tour, I'm sure it's a lot bigger
(47:47):
of a deal to get the cash together to do that.
It is pretty. I have heard a lot of people talking about
this more recently and
a. I didn't know that people didn't know that went on.
Yeah, I just had no idea. And then I also, I'm like,
(48:07):
it's not that big of a deal. It's just, it makes a lot of sense
now. I personally
wouldn't pay to be on a buy on
like in a buy on of a small ass tour
where, you know it's not going to be that packed. I personally wouldn't do
that. But would I pay to open up? For
(48:30):
Godsmoke, yes, I would. Right, right, right, right.
So I don't think it's that big a deal. I don't think it's
like illegal or anything. I mean there's,
there's modern day,
not exactly payola, but that was a big
(48:51):
issue back in the day. Like that was illegal somehow. Well,
that was with the, the radio station. But I don't even, I don't even know
why that was illegal. Who cares?
That's a great point. Yeah, but I think it was almost. It was something along
the line. There's a radio station in San Diego that got shut
down because of it. It was a hip hop station. And
(49:14):
then they flipped to an alternative station after the fact. But it was the
night DJs and stuff were getting paid and music directors are getting paid to play,
like, records from other art. Like random artists that were. They would just,
you know, take the money and put it on and. Right,
right. But I guess in the end,
in the grand scheme of things, that's all it is. And if you look at
(49:38):
radio station. There'S
so many other ways that that really happens without that
actually happening. Like, you don't. You know how
many. So to everything that
leads up to your band getting played on terrestrial radio
is all an exchange of money and deals and
(50:01):
stuff behind the scenes anyways. So when you get a record
label, there's so much stuff going on there and then there's
promotional stuff or there's. There's kickbacks
and like, hey, if you play our song,
our band will come to your summer festival and we'll play a
hundred percent. Yeah, it's. Oh, hey, I represent whatever.
(50:24):
And kickbacks and stuff going on behind the
scenes. It's not just some. Like, if someone at home
thinks it's this organic scenario of
a DJ really liked a song and he had to put it on the
airwaves, that's. That is. That hasn't happened since like
1953. That's not. That's
(50:47):
not the way that works at all. There's no such
thing. The. Occasionally there'll
be like a viral sensation these days or
like when I was growing up, the good. It wasn't on
the Internet, but it certainly was a viral event.
Was like Nirvana, Smells Like Teen Spirit.
(51:10):
Right. That was viral before it was viral and.
But again, to get Geffen Records, I'm
sure made stuff happen behind the scenes to get it
on MTV in the first place, but once it was
on there, it took on a life of its own. Sure.
But there's no. Dude, I wish there was organic
(51:33):
hits. It just doesn't work like that. Everything. And even
now you can like
sort of pay to get on Spotify playlists.
You can sponsor ads on Instagram
to get followers and this and that and the other thing. So everything's kind of
bought and paid for. I think it's
(51:56):
naive to think that your song got popular
on its own. It doesn't happen. It. So you. I
mean, I. There could be Stairway to Heaven could be on this
album, but if I don't. If someone. If I
or somebody or a label doesn't put a lot of money behind it and
hype it up and get it to the masses, no one's ever going to hear
(52:18):
that. Stairway to Heaven. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? No. It
does. 100 I'm just. Because I came from radio.
Yeah. Only the closest thing I. I had a moment in
my life and my career and the only gold record I have is
from the band the Struts. They're great. And
the. With that song could have been me. And they weren't
(52:40):
signed at the time. They had a manager who was
managing a couple other people and he knew my program director
who called me and said hey you play this song. We were an independent
station so we weren't owned by a big. But we were a
station that had been in san Diego for 30, 40 years now. What was the
name? 91X.
(53:04):
So we were. My program director called me and he
goes hey play this song or tell
me what you think. And I think you should play it. And I heard it.
I was like hell yeah I'll play. And I played it and then I just
kept playing it every night. He just let me play it. And then
other stations, you know they look at your spin report and they're like who the
(53:25):
hell is this band? The Struts. Yeah. And then they. Then we started adding it
during the day and then it. Then they got signed Interscope and then the song
can sync too. But it was. It was kind of a cool
organic thing that I got to be a part of and be the first guy
to play them in the States. And then you know. But
those that. That's the only time this ever happened when I was in the career.
(53:47):
So Mike. So you're saying that they weren't
signed. Before you played that they weren't signed to
Interscope. They were working on getting a deal. And the manager
who. But who but their manager had ties obviously with. He was
managing some big name talent
he knew. He found them and said this band's gonna be
(54:09):
huge. And he talked to our PD
and he. He told me to play the record. And they didn't have anything out.
They had one there. The album they had out was only in the UK and
it. And so nothing. It was a song from that UK
recording that they ended up re recording and putting it out later. But it was
like it was kind of a cool little piece of history to be a part
(54:30):
of at the time. But like that's. That will
now with the Internet that will never happen again. That was like 2014. Which
is probably the very last of that ever happening again.
But. Right.
There are exceptions like that to what I Was saying,
but. No, but 100 agree with what you're saying because that
(54:52):
doesn't happen. It never happens. And
I just thought it was. I got, I. I got a chance to like kind
of be in that for a minute and it was like, whoa. And like my
program director at the time was the guy that he was in on the
radio in Detroit and he discovered like Violent Femmes and he was a
guy that played. What was that
(55:14):
band called? I don't know. It was one single that was
the single. And he flipped the record over and started playing the other side and
that became the hit because he was just like kind of this guy that
was a taste maker dude and didn't really care and. But.
Yeah, that's awesome. So there are exceptions to that rule,
but it's rare, I guess a little bit
(55:38):
with my own career. There was a guy in St.
Louis who really liked the
Breaking Benjamin song Polyamorous.
So now we were signed to a major label,
but we weren't super popular yet. And he
(56:00):
did. It was presented to him as Hollywood
Records. Here's your new single now.
He did go above and beyond and played it
way more than he was like maybe supposed to. And really every
time it was on, he hyped it up. So. And it. And
St. Louis is a big city, so it became
(56:23):
a hit in that town before anywhere else.
So maybe like your strut story, there was one.
There was one guy in particular who. I don't know
how that works, but maybe he played it more often than he was supposed to.
Yeah, he probably played it a ton. And then. Yeah. And then what happens is
like other stations in the same format will look at and be
(56:46):
like, why is this station in St. Louis playing this
Breaking Benjamin song like 12 times a day? This doesn't even
make sense. And then they start playing it. Right.
They start testing it and then it bull. You know, if people. Right.
It catches fire, so to speak.
But yeah. So, you know, it's a great. I know exactly what station you're
(57:08):
talking about. And that PD is the one. One. One of the few left that
will take chances like that. Yeah. So it's rare, but it
does happen. But for you to be betting on that as an
artist, that's. That's a long shot.
Oh yeah, 100%. So then it comes back to like, why not
pay to be on a tour if you, you know you're going to get exposure?
(57:29):
Right. It's like paying an influencer to talk about your product.
Right. So full circle back to that question. I Don't think
a. I didn't know people didn't know about that. And I also don't. I don't
think it's that big of a deal. It's just a business arrangement.
Right. Yeah, I just. I had no idea somebody was telling me about that. I
was like, wait, what? Yeah. You pay to be on a tour with a big
(57:51):
deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Their crap.
They know that. They don't. It doesn't. If you're on the bill or they put
some other artists as the opener, it doesn't matter. Right?
I mean, it's still gonna be a full
packed show for that band. Yeah, yeah. Very,
very cool. Well, dude, I can't wait to hear the album. I
(58:14):
hope you do some shows that at least come to Nashville, maybe do one. That'd
be cool. That'd be cool. I. I
don't know what the clubs are down there. What's like the rock club? I know
all the country ones are famous for country, but. Well, there's a. I mean,
basement East. The East. And
(58:34):
there's. I'm trying to. I mean, there's Brick by
Brooklyn bowl, which is a gotcha. About a thousand
people or so. 11. Oh, wow. Yeah. I
mean, basement. Basement East. Those are,
you know, a couple hundred. Cab. Nice. Five hundred. Yeah, that'd
be good. Yeah. If you know any rock bands down there that could come open
(58:57):
up for. That'd be. I know a ton of rock bands.
We'll talk, you know, email me or something after we get off.
100. Yeah. Because I want to see you and I want to see the show.
I'd be very, very interested in coming down and open it up
for somebody or. Or something of that. You know, of that.
(59:17):
Some scenario like that. That'd be awesome. That would be killer. Well,
I appreciate your time, Aaron. Thank you, man, so much again for doing this again.
Yeah. I'll send you the new album when we get off here,
so. Love it. I have one more question. I asked you this last two times.
I'm gonna ask you if you have any advice for aspiring artists.
(59:39):
Quit. No, I mean on
rants about all this negative stuff.
So there is a lot
more control over stuff that
you do. And you can kind of. With
(01:00:02):
technology, it's way cheaper. You can kind of self produce your own music
in your. In your basement and. And you can get
pretty good results
and you can self promote and. And do
things like that, which you couldn't do way back in the day
(01:00:23):
if you're looking to make any money. It's.
It's tough, dude. There's no back end on. On your
music. There's, you know, everything streamed for free
and shows. It's tough in that regard.
So you got to do it for the most pure of reasons. You have
(01:00:46):
to really be passionate about music and really have some
sort of artistic vision that you're. You're trying to get
across and have some
sort of, like, love of the game,
you know, unless it's some sort of viral sensation or
(01:01:08):
you're like, you win. I don't even know. I don't know if American
Idols as popular as it used to be, but like, if you won that
or something. But it's tough then. And the marketplace is kind of
flooded with a million different things, so
it's hard for the consumer to know what's what.
(01:01:29):
But it's tough. I. I think in one, in some regards, like I was saying,
it's easier than it used to be. It. You, you know,
it used. You have to. You used to have to go to a big expensive
studio, so. And instruments used to cost a lot
more than they used to, and things of that nature have
changed to make it easier to do
(01:01:51):
DIY stuff. But again, the marketplace is flooded
and it's like, you know, we're in this
like, scrolling culture where it's like, oh,
shit, he put out a new record. And then you just scroll down and the
next thing is like, you know, my dog died. And then
you scroll down and it's like Donald Trump. And
(01:02:13):
you scroll down and it's like, you know, it's. It's
just. You're just combined. Your life's projects
are just combined in with scrolling
to the next thing, and it just kind of becomes. Everything's these
short clips of like, you
know, like, I made a video for that Tom Petty
(01:02:36):
song I just put out. And the short,
you know, it was an interesting experiment to see. I put out a little short
clip of the video and that was
viewed and more successful than the actual video,
you know, so I'm like, so we're living in that culture
where it's just. You're just
(01:03:00):
part of everything else that everybody else is putting
out. And it's just kind of, you know, it's more of
a. You're a blip on the radar.
But, you know, this is the world we live in. So I think it's harder
in that regard to really punch through and, and really
(01:03:20):
connect with people because there's just a million
other things you're scrolling by. And
I don't know, I hopefully all this political
calms down at some point because it's just been like,
(01:03:40):
what's it been? Like eight, nine years of just
crazy. Like, you know, when we were kids, it was
just like, you know, Ronald Reagan was president and
it seemed fine. No one worried
it was it right. Bill Clinton was president and there was a little
bit of like, some stuff that people got jazzed
(01:04:03):
up about, but it wasn't overwhelming. And it didn't like, have the sense
of like, all is
unwell it. Back in the day, it was just like
the president was who he was and it was nothing crazy. It was
just kind of people went about their business and it wasn't
overwhelming and you weren't bombarded with all this stuff and
(01:04:26):
people and all this divisiveness and stuff. So, you know,
there's that. I don't know. Again, I think that just comes back to the music
thing where it's like you're just kind of
feathered in with everything else that's going on in the world,
or you're feathered in with everybody
else's kind of posts about random stuff. And
(01:04:49):
so I think in that regard it's harder to punch through
unless you're kind of a bigger artist or
grandfathered in from back in the day where your
brand name means something to somebody, you know,
(01:05:09):
bringing it backward,
bringing it backward, bringing it backward,
bringing it backward, bringing it backward,
bring it backwards.
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