September 12, 2025 • 41 mins
What happens when an artist steps away from their craft, finds themselves again, and returns with a renewed sense of joy and creative purpose? On this episode of Bringin’ It Backwards, host Adam Lisicky reconnects with the incomparable Gavin Turek, just weeks after the release of her brand-new album, Diva of the People.
It’s been three years since Gavin first joined the show to talk about her debut album, Madam Gold—a time shaped by struggle, transformation, and the challenges of releasing music during the pandemic. In this candid conversation, Gavin shares how that era left her exhausted and questioning her path, leading her to take a much-needed break, travel abroad, and rediscover her passion for music on her own terms.
We dig into her journey growing up in LA surrounded by art, the all-in hustle of commuting to an arts high school, and how early MySpace connections shaped her career. Gavin opens up about fully trusting her vision, the power of working with new collaborators, and why Diva of the People marks both a return to her dance-focused roots and a reclaiming of the joy that first drew her to music.
If you’ve ever wondered how to keep your creative fire burning—especially through burnout, setbacks, and the pressure to conform—this episode is for you. Don’t miss Gavin’s inspiring advice for aspiring artists, her behind-the-scenes look at the indie album process, and her honest reflections on what it takes to sound exactly the way you hear yourself in your mind.
Listen now, subscribe, and be sure to follow us at @BringinBackPOD for more stories that bring you closer to the artists and music you love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast
where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal
stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode,
we had a chance to catch up with Gavin Turek over
Zoom Video. It was over three years ago since
we had Gavin Turek on the podcast. Last time she was on,
(00:22):
we chatted about Madame Gold. The album hadn't even came out
yet at the time we chatted. So it was really cool to kind of pick
up where we left off with Madame Gold and hear what
Gavin's been up to since then. She talks a lot about
this new album and kind of taking a break between
Madam Gold and this new album and how that really
(00:44):
helped her find herself again and find her love for the music.
So we hear all about the new album that Gavin just released called
Diva of the People. And you can watch our interview with Gavin on
our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be amazing.
If you subscribe to our channel, like us on Facebook, follow us
on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at bringing back pod.
(01:06):
And if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google
podcasts would be incredible. If you follow us there as well
and hook us up with a five. Star review, we'd appreciate
your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcast, we're. Wherever you listen
to podcasts, we're Bringing. It Backwards with Gavin
Turek.
(01:33):
Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backward.
Bringing it backward. Hi, Gavin. How are you?
I'm good. How are you? I am great. Thank you so much for doing
(01:53):
this. Yeah, of course. Well, it's great to see
you. I had you on this like three years ago. I remember. Yeah, I
remember. I was in New York. Yeah, it's crazy. It's been that long. I
couldn't believe it when I was like, there's no way it's been three.
Three years. But it was literally in September of 21.
Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's. It's weird. Time just goes
(02:16):
by really fast. Yeah. I think Madam Gold had
maybe not came. It was about to come out. I think at the time.
Oh, really? It hadn't come out yet. I don't. Yeah, I think we were talking
about it. It was about to come out. Or maybe it was. It came out
when we released it. I can't remember. But yeah, that was a while ago.
So long ago. Yeah, that was. It feels
(02:38):
like so much life has happened to
me. That's awesome. Because I'm excited to hear all about it.
That's what I want to kind of catch up on and see what's been going
on over the last few. Totally.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we. Usually it's about you and your journey in music,
but we kind of already got your story up until 21
(02:59):
last time we spoke. But maybe we can just recap real quick, just
a little bit, and then get into this, this new
album. Awesome. So you were born and raised in la.
Yeah. Which is. We were talking about how it's
not many of us. I mean, I was born and raised in San Diego, but
la, same thing. Not. Not a lot of people are actually
(03:21):
from Southern California.
Exactly. Yeah. We're so lucky. We're
really lucky. And you grew up, you grew up kind of around the industry,
right? Mom is a singer and. Yeah,
mom's an actor and singer.
Dad is not in the industry technically, but
(03:44):
he's a musician, so he did. Piano player, right?
Yeah, yeah, piano. And
yeah, definitely grew up with the industry.
Like in my kind of everyday life and experience
in a way that probably isn't typical, but actually so typical
for a lot of LA kids. I think so. Yeah,
(04:07):
definitely, like normalized
to me. Sure. All the, all the
dysfunction, all the craziness.
Yeah, it was definitely just like everyday,
everyday life for me. That's cool. Yeah, you did,
you went to an art school and everything, right? I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
(04:30):
went to arts high school. Yeah, Arts high school, which
is similar to what people know as like the Fame High school
in New York. Oh, really? Yeah,
yeah. So that's our sister high school. And so our, our
whole format is modeled exactly the same. Like we have
basically the same model and same format. Yeah. That's really interesting. I
(04:53):
didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Not a lot of people know that,
but it's a great, It's a great school. It still exists.
It's super small and I think they're struggling probably
financially just to keep it up and to keep the quality. But
yeah, it was, it was so incredible and like,
very, very, very special because it kind of set
(05:14):
me on this path of
learning to work hard and kind of sacrifice for your art
at such a young age. Like, I was getting up at. I probably told you
this. I was getting up at four in the morning every morning to go to
school. Oh, no, you didn't. You didn't tell me that. Yeah, to
commute two hours there, two hours back.
(05:35):
Yeah. So it. But that was normalized again because
that's what most of the kids were doing. And,
and it was so ingrained in me, like this is worth
it. This is worth the uncomfortability and like
worth worth the time and the effort
because I get to do my art. So. Yeah, that was
(05:58):
instilled in me. Yeah. You were going as a dance
major, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And how were
your parents driving you to school? Two hours out and two hours
back? Or is there a bus system? Like how. How do you. Yeah, it
was, it was wild. So bas. I would, I would leave
my house. At what time would I. So I guess I would wake
(06:20):
up at 4:30. I would leave my house at 5:30 to drive to the
train and then. Oh wow, you would take the train?
Yeah, I would catch the train at 6 and then we would get
to Union station in downtown LA around like
7:15, 7:30. And then all the kids that went to Union
Station would then take a bus to. To our campus.
(06:44):
Yes. Oh my God. School would start at 8 o', clock. So.
Yeah, that is wild. And then you'd have to take the bus home. I mean,
take the train, take the. Whole thing, do the whole thing again home. Oh man.
Were there a lot of kids that like, I mean. Oh, I guess you're in
high school, that's that age, but still, I mean, 14, 15.
To be able to do that trek by yourself. Were there a lot of
(07:05):
kids around the area? Like did you meet your friends like on the train and
then. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't as scary as it
sounds. Like we were super young. But a lot of kids
were doing it. Like most, most of the kids were being
bused or trained in from all over the county. So that's why it's such a
special school because. Because it was
(07:27):
art focus. You had to audition to get in. And then
it wasn't based on anything but your talent. So a
lot of kids that were from, for example, like
Beverly Hills, like so rich kids and then kids from,
you know, Compton, like everybody was. It was such a melting
pot. I was all the way from, you know, Santa Clarita, but it was such
(07:50):
a melting pot and it didn't really matter where you came
from, where your background, what your background was, if you were
wealthy, if you were not, you know, like we were all in there
together. And even when it
came to like popularity and stuff, it was, it was
based on talent. Like if you were talented, you
(08:13):
like the most would be the most popular. Most popular person.
Yeah, it was all based on, on talent. Yeah, it was
really, really interesting school it was so. It was amazing.
Yeah. And especially with the fact that you mentioned, like, Beverly Hills,
like, you couldn't buy your way in. It wasn't like. No. Oh, yeah.
Like, oh, well, my mom is, you know, the executive
(08:35):
producer at Paramount or whatever, so we're gonna buy our way in. But if
you didn't have the talent, it was. Sure there was. I'm sure there was
that going on. Like, that's. I don't know. That's probably.
Well, maybe if you aren't good, you weren't gonna be popular. Right, right. It was
like. No. Yeah. Among, like, in terms of, like,
social, cultural, like, amongst
(08:57):
the. The kids. Yeah, yeah. It was all about talent. All.
That's crazy. Yeah. So did you end up going to college for dance
and stuff, too, or. No, no, technically, I did not.
I went to college for. I
was a hu. I was under the humanities department, but I created my own major,
so I incorporated dance and the arts. But it was.
(09:20):
Yeah, I was kind of doing a mixture of
religious studies, art history, and then performing arts. Oh,
okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't know because it sounds like. I mean, that was
a big part of your. Yeah. Obviously your life. You know, I. I
danced all throughout college, but I. I wasn't majoring in it. Yeah. So,
okay. With your songwriting, though, that didn't come. I mean, you. You.
(09:43):
You told me in the first interview that you wrote your first song at, like,
6 years old. I mean, so it was always kind of a part of you
and melodies and. Yeah, but it wasn't until you were
in college that you really kind of started to focus on
songwriting, correct? Yeah, yeah. I.
I always wrote. I always thought that was, like, the most
(10:04):
organic, natural thing you can do. Just. I didn't
even think about. I always. I always wrote
songs. But, yeah, when I got into college,
and I don't even know what it was, but it was.
I guess I just had more time alone to
just mess around on a computer, because I actually had a
(10:27):
computer. And. Yeah, I guess
producing is what made it a little bit more
real for me. And. And I started taking a little bit more
seriously, like, starting to produce, and then I was like, oh,
I can make a whole song by myself. Like, this is really
cool. So. Yeah. Yeah. And then you kind of made a name for yourself,
(10:50):
like, that way through, what, MySpace, right? Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know if I want to say a name for myself. Well, I mean,
you've met people that really like, started to. Yeah,
yeah. That helps that. Well, tokimon said like, you had the two. Two
of the biggest records on the. That first. That one EP
that she put out. Like. Yeah, that's pretty. I think
(11:12):
wild. Yeah. Two of her most popular songs. It is.
Whatever, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy.
Yeah. And that was all just relationships you formed via MySpace?
Yeah, I mean, I met. I met her through MySpace and
then I met, like, my first manager through MySpace.
(11:33):
I connected with my first, like, producer.
That kind of helped me refine some
ideas that I was already kind of creating through. Through
MySpace. Yeah. Yeah. Did you. And
then you ended up working. I don't know. Maybe you still work with Chris Hards.
(11:54):
He said he made a bit. He was a big, you know, part of your.
Your solo career and putting out the. What, the first EP that
you did and. And obviously, yeah, the
album Madam Gold was all done. We didn't meet through MySpace, but.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Ye. He came after the fact. After you kind of
put out music yourself. Yeah. Okay.
(12:18):
So just. Just kind of picking up with Madam Gold. I mean, at the
time we were in the middle of COVID You were possibly
going to be playing some shows in October. I don't
know if the album. I. I don't think the album was out yet.
And that was kind of where we left off, where it was like, okay,
this is my new. You. You discuss the album
(12:41):
as kind of like your new Persona was like, madame Gold
is my new, like. And you kind of discovered that right through
2018 into 2020 and. And then going back
in the studio, recording some songs and adding the interludes and all that stuff.
But, yeah, so that album comes out and then kind of tell me from
there, you know, what. You know, what went on. Did you do
(13:03):
that? Do you do those shows in October? And then kind of. I'm
like, I don't even remember. Yeah. How does that end up folding into this new
album? I mean, that's
a hard, hard question, but I'll try to
answer. Sorry. I don't know. Maybe
that album coming out, like. So the album comes out. It's awesome. And then.
(13:25):
Yeah. Life from there to here. Yeah, it
was. I think at that time,
Madam Gold was like a Persona that I
felt like I needed because I was.
I was kind of like in this low, like, low
(13:46):
frequency kind of darker space.
And Covid definitely exacerbated that. I think a lot of people can
relate to that. And Madam Gold was like this
kind of fighter, you know, Persona that I kind of felt
like I needed to take on. And I
guess I didn't feel like Gavin was enough. Like, so I kind of
(14:09):
needed this way to kind of fight
through the. The time period, fight through the
feelings that I was having. And, yeah,
it felt, like, very necessary, I guess, to. To have
that as a Persona.
And, yeah, when we released that album,
(14:31):
it just. It was really different than this release process,
like, in every way, I guess, because
again, like, it felt like I had to,
like, put on these boxing gloves and just every step was, like
a punch, and every step was, like, slugging through the
mud and trying to move forward and trying to get this out and.
(14:55):
And then with just the state of the world, like, it just
felt like I had to kind of carry, like,
a lot of weight on my shoulders in order to move forward.
And I think that came off, like, in
all the aesthetics, like, in the visuals in any
interview that I did. Yeah, it was just like
(15:17):
this. I have to move forward by any means
necessary kind of attitude. And. And yes,
we did the shows. Those were the
challenge. Like, again, it was just, like, kind of moving
through and carrying this weight and this burden in
order to, like, move forward and move through it.
(15:38):
And then once that was kind of done, it was
out in the world, and I kind of, like, was able to breathe and,
like, take a step back and reflect on it. I
realized that as a
artist and as a vocalist and even as a songwriter,
I was exhausted and kind of
(16:02):
uninspired, and I wasn't really sure where to go next.
Like, I was tired. Yeah, I think I was tired
and. Because the process of making
Madam Gold wasn't easy, and the process of releasing Madam Gold
wasn't easy, I was kind of like, f
music, you know, Like f. I bet. Yeah. I mean, like,
(16:25):
you finished the album, right? I think we were
talking last time, like, all the songs were kind of done in
2018. Right. And then it was like. I mean. Or
you had a. Definitely not 2018. Like. No, the songs
were kind of. I want to say the songs were kind of done maybe
end of 2019. I was 2019, wanting to.
(16:47):
Yeah. To, like, move forward with it. Then maybe you had the
structure of it or something. You had a something of it done maybe by
2018. Or it was the fact that we had started it.
Okay. Yeah. And so it was like, just a very long process.
So it's basically a three year process. Because then you have
Covid and it's like, you can't you finish it? And it's like, now what? We.
(17:09):
Yeah. Put it out and just let it sit here or. Yeah, yeah,
totally. So it was. It was like this long, like, long
haul kind of process. And then, yeah, once it was
released, I was just like, man, this is. This was a lot.
And now I need to reevaluate and acknowledge that I'm not
in the best space mentally in terms of,
(17:31):
like, my confidence as an artist and as a songwriter.
And that. That meant for me just like, taking a
break. Okay. Focusing on something else for a
while. I traveled a lot. I was able to travel a
lot in 2022, which kind of helped
recalibrate my mind and where it was at and. And just
(17:53):
again, like, reevaluate. And then
long story short, at the end of 2022, I had.
I had been in Italy for a month, and
I'm not like wealthy or anything, so it wasn't
like some. It was an amazing trip, but it wasn't
like I was, you know, on. This vacation, my ties and
(18:16):
hanging out. On the beach all day. No, no. It wasn't like I was,
you know, in. Where. Where do the rich people
go? No, I wasn't that, like, I don't know.
I don't even know. No. I basically had done
this, like, somewhat of an exchange because I got someone to rent
him, rent my apartment in la, and therefore I rented an
(18:38):
apartment in Italy because I was able to pay my rent. All this
stuff. So was there for a month and basically just living. I was
by myself and I was working on
another project, not music related, and just able to
just stop thinking about music for a while.
And when I. And it was really refreshing. And then when I got
(19:00):
back, I was like, you know what? Let me
try getting in the studio with someone totally new. Just trying
to kind of reinvigorate myself
and start maybe a new project. I didn't really
know what to expect and I didn't really have any expectations. I was just like,
it's been a long time since I've tried to create music and I should probably
(19:23):
try, you know, like, see what it's like to just get back
in the studio. So I got back in the studio when I. When I
returned, and I actually had.
Covid actually got the producer that I got back in the studio with. We both
got Covid, gave it to him, so. Man,
sorry. Okay. And then after,
(19:45):
like, kind of a month of, like, being out
with COVID me and the producer, we got. We
tried again, got back in again, and what transpired was
the beginning of Diva of the People, really.
Yeah. We ended up writing the majority of Diva
of the People over the next two months. So like, the very
(20:07):
end of 2022. It was October in
November of 2022, and we.
We. It wasn't final vocals. It was basically we. We created,
like, probably eight or 10 demos that turned
into what would be. Yeah, the
majority of the songs that we would finish and develop for
(20:30):
Diva the People. So it was, like, really fun.
It was. It was just fun. I wasn't
overanalyzing anything. I really
had this vision of returning to, like, more of a dance
focus rather than more of, like a funk, R and B.
(20:51):
Like that. That type of vibe, which is more Madam Gold. I was
like, I really just want to get out of this, like,
not only the funk genre, but, like, out of my funk.
Yeah. Go back to, like, stuff that makes me move,
stuff that's ready for the dance floor. Like, a sound that
(21:14):
makes me think of my
inspirations that were kind of always my inspirations,
like artists like Robin and Roisin Murphy and
obviously like Diana Ross and Donna Summer and just kind of taking
all those influences that have always been there that had kind
of, like, been, you know, suppressed somewhat or pushed to
(21:37):
the side somewhat with Madam Gold and just own those again
and take those back into the studio and take the
influences of house back into the studio.
Disco, obviously, soulful
pop, like Michael Janet, just all of that stuff
that I had always loved and just say, like, let's
(21:59):
make fun music. Let's make simple music. Let's let
me, again, focus more on the songwriting and the
songs rather than
the production being so intricate and so,
like, complex and just kind of go back to the basics
(22:19):
and get really simple with it. And that's what we did. And it
just made the process for Diva of the People so
fun. So reinvigorating.
Less. Less analytical and more going with, like, my first
instincts and my natural instincts and, yeah.
Getting back to, like, the love of. Of those.
(22:43):
Those types of songs that I kind of grew up listening to that were
more. More simple and, like, kind of more
fitting for the masses
than, like, a niche genre. Like a niche. Be like,
yeah. Subsective, like, music listeners. I love
that. And it sounds like, yeah, just going in and kind of having
(23:05):
no expectation. Yeah, let's just make something
and. And see where. Yeah. Yeah. And then end up
rolling the ball pretty quickly into, like. Oh, wow. These
are all songs that are what have, like, the same, like, through line
or did you know is going to be starting to become an album or is
it like, oh, we're just making a lot of cool songs. Yeah, I just. I.
(23:27):
I didn't think it was going to be an album. I thought, like, maybe we'll
just do an EP with the. The producer,
which was Spencer Ludwig. And
yeah, it wasn't really anything beyond that, but once the ball started rolling
and I. I felt comfortable enough to
really take the lead in terms of
(23:49):
the production and the songwriting and really steer him in the right
direction. And I was. It felt so good. It
was like, yeah, this feels. This feels right. And then
I was able to kind of recruit other producers to fit in with the sound
that we were kind of already naturally taking. And that was
in 2023, that we were really able to, like, delve
(24:11):
deep into that. And
yeah, it was. It was super, super organic. And I
want to say, like, by mid 2023, we
had. We had the songs. Then I started recording
them, doing the final vocals, final touches.
It's such a process. Mixing. Mixing, I think
(24:34):
started at the end of 2023, went into 2020,
24, and then. Yeah, and then was out.
And then it was out last week.
But it is like, I think.
I think when you're indy to, the process
is extended depending on, like, the resources. Right.
(24:57):
So, like, if you have
kind of high expenses per song, like, that can
really influence the
timing of finishing the songs. Like, my. My
costs are pretty expensive per song for this project
because I recruited a lot of different people to
(25:19):
complete one song. So I. Using
one person and being like, we'll just do all of them. Like, yeah, well,
no, like, I'm. I'm going to break it down because I know people
that listen to this podcast probably are like, more on the music
nerd side, like, wanting. Yeah, they want to know how to do it. They want
to know where you are. Exactly. Like, want to know how to do it and
(25:41):
want to know the real. So for me, this is not typical for everyone
and everyone has their own thing. But for me, for this particular
album, for each song, I had myself
as a writer and producer, and then I usually had another
person. So that's two people already then.
Because me and the producer were very particular about sounds and
(26:04):
just wanting the production to be right. So, for example, for a
song like, Heaven knows, live bass and live guitar were,
like, not negotiable. So then we recruited a great bass
player, Spencer Zahn to play bass, an amazing
guitar player, Philip Menesis, to play guitar.
So did that, you know, paid those people. Yeah, now you got to pay the
(26:27):
live musicians instead of just programming it in. Exactly.
Then we had a great
mixer that ended up doing the drums as well.
So then he was kind of a part of the mixing and
programming drums for that song. So then there's four people,
like, and that's not even, you know, that's. That's a lot of people already.
(26:49):
And everyone we, you know, compensated for for their
part. And then for vocals for every single
song, I had one vocal engineer. So for every
single song, I was paying the vocal engineer per song to
track. You had a different one or. No, a different
vocal engineer on every song on the whole album. Oh, you have one that did
(27:12):
every single song on the album? Yes, yes. Instead of it
being the producer that also cuts the vocals and
also engineers the vocals. I had, like, one guy that did
all the vocals for every song, but then that. Okay. You know,
another guy. Yeah, Per song that I
had to pay for too. So, yeah, the expenses got a little bit
(27:34):
high per song. I think it was worth it. I mean,
it was worth it. I loved the result, but, yeah, it
was a lot. And it was. As a result, it took
a long time to finish just because I needed, like, to make sure that
I could secure the resources financially.
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. To finish the song. And then, of course,
(27:57):
like, when you get to the end of the process is mixing and mastering.
And I mentioned the mixer that we had a guy named Caserta who was
incredible, and then mastering was Joe
Laporta. So everyone had a really vital role to
play. And yeah, it was. It took a. It took a
long time to finish it. Like, when
(28:20):
you kind of take into account, like, all these different people kind of
contributing and then getting paid and then
going back and forth and then, you know, getting. Yeah. Get everybody. And not
only, like, the paying them out. It's like getting everyone in schedule.
When can you come and do it? Right? I mean, you're. Now you're managing a
bunch of different people versus, like, you and maybe one other person,
(28:42):
like, oh, let's just hammer this whole thing out in a weekend or, you know,
a month or whatever it may be. Totally. And when you're. And when you're
indie, you're really, like, a lot of people are
believing in you and. And doing it at very,
like, reasonable rates, you know, which is awesome. And I'm
so appreciative to all of them. But, yeah, it's still. It's still a
(29:04):
lot, and it's still a lot to advantage, and it still
means that the. The timeline might not go as quick
as you. As you want it. So I really, I. I
was like. I told my manager when the album was pretty much written
I was like, we're gonna release this at the end of 2023. And he was
like, okay, we'll see. Then, of course,
(29:26):
September 2024 ended up being the. The best. Yeah,
I'm sure. I mean, it's kind of. When you're independent,
obviously, it's great because you don't have somebody like, down your throat,
like, you need to get this out like tomorrow. And you're not. Like, you don't
have that stressor. But it's also like. Yeah, but then you have to come forward
and be like, well, I gotta go find every. I gotta find the money, I
(29:48):
gotta find the people I've gotta do, you. Know, all of it. Yeah. So it's
like. It's kind of. There's. There's kind of. I'm sure there's pros and cons to
each, but I think if it was me as an artist, I would prefer
to have your situation where it's. Well, at least
I. I'm not gonna have the pressure of somebody that going like, this needs to
get out tomorrow. Like, you have more of the freedom
(30:08):
to kind of probably take your time and release it as you
want. You can put out whatever you want. Really. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. It. There's pros and cons, I think, on either
side of the. The spectrum when it comes to releasing music, for
sure. Yeah. So. Yeah. Because it's.
Yeah, it's so different. I really do like having the creative
(30:30):
control too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the vision now.
And. Yeah, it feels good to
kind of be. Be in the driver's seat and to
executive produce and produce and write
and just feel like,
(30:52):
feel comfortable in that role again. Did you just.
I'm just curious with this album
where the songs just like, you just knew that they're like, was there.
I don't know how to ask this question because it's like, obviously everything you're gonna
put out and you're gonna do, it's a personally personal to you
and you love what you're doing, obviously. But like. And what. What made
(31:15):
you want to do the. Make the decision of like, well, let's like
really go all in on this and like hire one guy to
do all the vocals and. And we need live
guitars and bass on this song. And like, was there.
You just felt like it neat, like, I guess instead of
cutting corners and costs, like, what was the decision between.
(31:39):
You just wanted it to be as best as it could or. Yeah.
Yeah. I just wanted to sound. To sound
like the vision that I had in my mind. Okay. I.
That's a weird question. I mean, obviously you want it to sound the best you
can, but. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, to be like, you know what?
I'm gonna. I don't care. I'm going all in yeah,
(32:00):
no, I believe holding those stops yeah, yeah, I. Oh, I, I believe
in. I guess once this. Once the
demos were there and I could see the
vision kind of coming to life through just the demos.
Yeah, I was. I was excited and I really believed in.
Believed in it. And not every song took that amount
(32:23):
of people, you know, sure. Those were just. Those were probably
three or four of the songs out of. Out of ten.
But yeah, I think even when it came
to, like, mixing
and revisions, like, I just,
(32:44):
I, I'm. I can be relentless. And I think that's
from my experience working with Chris Hart's. Like,
when you work with people that are that talented and that have a standard
that is so high and that are essentially
perfectionists, but are also pretty genius at
what they do, you kind of get that you pick up on.
(33:06):
On a similar way of doing things,
like whether or not you're working with them for every song. Like, I. Chris didn't
do every song for this album, but that mentality of.
Of kind of extracting the best
and like, doing the best that we can with. With each song
and giving each song the attention and the.
(33:29):
To detail and just doing the absolute best that
we can do, like, that totally was instilled in
me. So now I'm going to do that with probably every project.
And. And it's not that it means that I think
every song is perfect on this album because that's. That's definitely not the
case. But I think every song,
(33:53):
every song, except for one. One song,
just the mixing got a little. Got a little weird for me. But
every song had that care in. Right.
Well, it's like once you get to a point, I mean, you want it to
be right. It's like you. You have a, you, you. You set a
bar for yourself. Like, I'm not gonna put something out. That'S not so hot. Yeah,
(34:15):
the bar is like. And that's. I. And I. And I think that a lot
of artists struggle with that too. I mean, I do as far as, like, putting
out content for my show. And yeah, like, if it, like, I will sit.
And I had to hire an editor because I would take me so long because
I'd get so, like, caught up on like, one frame.
I'm like, yeah, like, I. I don't love this. I Don't love how this cut
(34:37):
looks. You know, Then I could sit there for half a day just trying to
fix some little thing, and then most people don't
even notice, right. They're like, what are you talking about? And it's like, but I
noticed, so it's gonna. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I
know. And that's all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Will it matter?
It will. Five more people like it or view it
(34:59):
if it didn't have that frame. Right. Doesn't matter. Like,
it's. You just have that. You just put this, like, standard on what you
think personally, what you want it to look like.
Absolutely. You know, I could see how there's, like, no compromising.
And it's like, no, this is. This is my art. I want it to be
a certain way and it's going to be that. Yeah, I want it to be
great. I don't want to have the regret of, like. Man,
(35:22):
every time I listen to the song now, all I'm going to hear is that
one little thing that I. No, I should have changed that or.
You know what I mean? No, yeah. There is one song. To be.
To be honest, there's one song like that. And every time I listen, I
should have done, but it's okay. But nobody else will ever
notice. You know what I mean? I don't think. Yeah. Oh, I love
(35:43):
my, like, Prayer changes everything Cup. This is so funny. There you
go. Like, all the
mugs in my house are, like, inspirational.
That's cool, though. Faith prayer. I love
it. Yeah. But, yes, I totally agree with you. You.
You get it. Because once you're. What, you're on that train, it's hard to get
(36:06):
off. Right? Yeah. But I mean, it also. It
shows that you work. Yeah. Yeah. And everything. Because
it's like, yeah, it's one thing if
absolutely no one cared. And then you're like, no, this has got to be the
greatest thing ever. And you're like, well, I. Well, you have already kind of set
a bar for yourself, you know. Yeah. Doing this project.
(36:27):
So with this album verse, the last
one, or even with your. The ep you did. Because you did both
of those solely with Chris Hart, Craig or mainly.
Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, I did. I did
Madam Gold solely with Chris, and then. Okay, I worked with a few different people
on the releases before that. Okay. So, yes, you
(36:50):
worked solely with him on Madam Mad Gold. And so going into this one,
it was like, yeah, you had more people. You had more
people on the. On your staff as far as, like, yeah,
Money song, more producers More people and.
Yeah, yeah, it was. I. I thought it was important. And I think for the
next project, too, because I've already started the next thing, it's
(37:12):
for me to be
diversifying, like, who I'm working with
so that I can.
Yeah, I think, like, it's an energetic thing. Maybe it's just, like,
moving around the pieces and not getting too attached to
(37:33):
one person's vision for what it should sound like.
And it helps me kind of take a step back. And
as a songwriter, working
with different producers brings out different elements of what I can do,
like, in what I can bring to the table. So. Sure. Yeah, I. I'm.
(37:53):
I'm pretty. I'm pretty into that idea. Like, Spencer
Ludwig was the primary producer for. For Diva of the
People. I think he did. I think he did six songs, so he
did a lot. Yeah, five or six. And then.
And then a few other producers. Seven.
(38:14):
Davis Jr. Did one with a guy
named Leaf. They did Anybody Home, which is. Turns out to be, like,
a song that a lot of people are connecting with now. And
then Art of Tones, who is an amazing French
producer. He. He did Disco Boots and you and
Me. So. Yeah, I think it was mainly those.
(38:36):
Those three producers. That's amazing. Yeah. You
have some shows coming up, right, to support it. You're playing the Casbo in San
Diego, which is my favorite venue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're
playing there. Wait, on Thursday or something, right? Wednesday. Wednesday,
yeah, yeah, Wednesday. Louisiana. San
Francisco, New York and D.C. so it's a. It's a short run,
(38:59):
kind of just to celebrate, like, the release of the album, and then we'll probably
do something more extensive,
either. Well, I'm thinking probably next. Next year we'll probably
do something a little bit more extensive, but, yeah, love it. Well,
congratulations on the album, and thanks again for
coming back and. And talking to me about this release. Yeah, thank you.
(39:22):
Exciting. I have one more question. I asked you the same question
last time, but I'm gonna ask it again if you have any advice for aspiring
artists. Oh, I love this question.
I think now that I've released a
slew of projects by myself or independently. Not by
myself. I have a team, but independently, I would
(39:45):
say to trust your vision
over someone else's vision for you, in
terms of your visuals, in terms of the
sound of your music. Like, trust the vision
that you have. And usually kind of the first
(40:05):
vision that really hits your heart and, like, that really resonates with
you is the one that will take you
to the next level. So like, for me,
I always kind of had a visual of me, like, as this modern
disco queen. And every time I really committed
to that, I felt myself, like, moving forward and, like, taking
(40:27):
steps in the right direction. And then the times where I got sidetracked from
that vision, I felt myself kind of get
stagnant and frustrated and not sure what to
do, because I wasn't trusting that. And so, yeah,
trust. Trust the vision that you have for yourself.
(40:50):
Bring it backwards,
bring it back. Bringing it backward,
Bringing it backward. Bring it backward,
bring it backwards.
What is going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast
where both legendary and rising artists tell their own personal
stories of how they achieve stardom. On this episode,
we had a chance to catch up with Gavin Turek over
Zoom Video. It was over three years ago since
we had Gavin Turek on the podcast. Last time she was on,
(00:22):
we chatted about Madame Gold. The album hadn't even came out
yet at the time we chatted. So it was really cool to kind of pick
up where we left off with Madame Gold and hear what
Gavin's been up to since then. She talks a lot about
this new album and kind of taking a break between
Madam Gold and this new album and how that really
(00:44):
helped her find herself again and find her love for the music.
So we hear all about the new album that Gavin just released called
Diva of the People. And you can watch our interview with Gavin on
our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing it Backwards. It'd be amazing.
If you subscribe to our channel, like us on Facebook, follow us
on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at bringing back pod.
(01:06):
And if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Music, Google
podcasts would be incredible. If you follow us there as well
and hook us up with a five. Star review, we'd appreciate
your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcast, we're. Wherever you listen
to podcasts, we're Bringing. It Backwards with Gavin
Turek.
(01:33):
Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backward.
Bringing it backward. Hi, Gavin. How are you?
I'm good. How are you? I am great. Thank you so much for doing
(01:53):
this. Yeah, of course. Well, it's great to see
you. I had you on this like three years ago. I remember. Yeah, I
remember. I was in New York. Yeah, it's crazy. It's been that long. I
couldn't believe it when I was like, there's no way it's been three.
Three years. But it was literally in September of 21.
Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's. It's weird. Time just goes
(02:16):
by really fast. Yeah. I think Madam Gold had
maybe not came. It was about to come out. I think at the time.
Oh, really? It hadn't come out yet. I don't. Yeah, I think we were talking
about it. It was about to come out. Or maybe it was. It came out
when we released it. I can't remember. But yeah, that was a while ago.
So long ago. Yeah, that was. It feels
(02:38):
like so much life has happened to
me. That's awesome. Because I'm excited to hear all about it.
That's what I want to kind of catch up on and see what's been going
on over the last few. Totally.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we. Usually it's about you and your journey in music,
but we kind of already got your story up until 21
(02:59):
last time we spoke. But maybe we can just recap real quick, just
a little bit, and then get into this, this new
album. Awesome. So you were born and raised in la.
Yeah. Which is. We were talking about how it's
not many of us. I mean, I was born and raised in San Diego, but
la, same thing. Not. Not a lot of people are actually
(03:21):
from Southern California.
Exactly. Yeah. We're so lucky. We're
really lucky. And you grew up, you grew up kind of around the industry,
right? Mom is a singer and. Yeah,
mom's an actor and singer.
Dad is not in the industry technically, but
(03:44):
he's a musician, so he did. Piano player, right?
Yeah, yeah, piano. And
yeah, definitely grew up with the industry.
Like in my kind of everyday life and experience
in a way that probably isn't typical, but actually so typical
for a lot of LA kids. I think so. Yeah,
(04:07):
definitely, like normalized
to me. Sure. All the, all the
dysfunction, all the craziness.
Yeah, it was definitely just like everyday,
everyday life for me. That's cool. Yeah, you did,
you went to an art school and everything, right? I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
(04:30):
went to arts high school. Yeah, Arts high school, which
is similar to what people know as like the Fame High school
in New York. Oh, really? Yeah,
yeah. So that's our sister high school. And so our, our
whole format is modeled exactly the same. Like we have
basically the same model and same format. Yeah. That's really interesting. I
(04:53):
didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Not a lot of people know that,
but it's a great, It's a great school. It still exists.
It's super small and I think they're struggling probably
financially just to keep it up and to keep the quality. But
yeah, it was, it was so incredible and like,
very, very, very special because it kind of set
(05:14):
me on this path of
learning to work hard and kind of sacrifice for your art
at such a young age. Like, I was getting up at. I probably told you
this. I was getting up at four in the morning every morning to go to
school. Oh, no, you didn't. You didn't tell me that. Yeah, to
commute two hours there, two hours back.
(05:35):
Yeah. So it. But that was normalized again because
that's what most of the kids were doing. And,
and it was so ingrained in me, like this is worth
it. This is worth the uncomfortability and like
worth worth the time and the effort
because I get to do my art. So. Yeah, that was
(05:58):
instilled in me. Yeah. You were going as a dance
major, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And how were
your parents driving you to school? Two hours out and two hours
back? Or is there a bus system? Like how. How do you. Yeah, it
was, it was wild. So bas. I would, I would leave
my house. At what time would I. So I guess I would wake
(06:20):
up at 4:30. I would leave my house at 5:30 to drive to the
train and then. Oh wow, you would take the train?
Yeah, I would catch the train at 6 and then we would get
to Union station in downtown LA around like
7:15, 7:30. And then all the kids that went to Union
Station would then take a bus to. To our campus.
(06:44):
Yes. Oh my God. School would start at 8 o', clock. So.
Yeah, that is wild. And then you'd have to take the bus home. I mean,
take the train, take the. Whole thing, do the whole thing again home. Oh man.
Were there a lot of kids that like, I mean. Oh, I guess you're in
high school, that's that age, but still, I mean, 14, 15.
To be able to do that trek by yourself. Were there a lot of
(07:05):
kids around the area? Like did you meet your friends like on the train and
then. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't as scary as it
sounds. Like we were super young. But a lot of kids
were doing it. Like most, most of the kids were being
bused or trained in from all over the county. So that's why it's such a
special school because. Because it was
(07:27):
art focus. You had to audition to get in. And then
it wasn't based on anything but your talent. So a
lot of kids that were from, for example, like
Beverly Hills, like so rich kids and then kids from,
you know, Compton, like everybody was. It was such a melting
pot. I was all the way from, you know, Santa Clarita, but it was such
(07:50):
a melting pot and it didn't really matter where you came
from, where your background, what your background was, if you were
wealthy, if you were not, you know, like we were all in there
together. And even when it
came to like popularity and stuff, it was, it was
based on talent. Like if you were talented, you
(08:13):
like the most would be the most popular. Most popular person.
Yeah, it was all based on, on talent. Yeah, it was
really, really interesting school it was so. It was amazing.
Yeah. And especially with the fact that you mentioned, like, Beverly Hills,
like, you couldn't buy your way in. It wasn't like. No. Oh, yeah.
Like, oh, well, my mom is, you know, the executive
(08:35):
producer at Paramount or whatever, so we're gonna buy our way in. But if
you didn't have the talent, it was. Sure there was. I'm sure there was
that going on. Like, that's. I don't know. That's probably.
Well, maybe if you aren't good, you weren't gonna be popular. Right, right. It was
like. No. Yeah. Among, like, in terms of, like,
social, cultural, like, amongst
(08:57):
the. The kids. Yeah, yeah. It was all about talent. All.
That's crazy. Yeah. So did you end up going to college for dance
and stuff, too, or. No, no, technically, I did not.
I went to college for. I
was a hu. I was under the humanities department, but I created my own major,
so I incorporated dance and the arts. But it was.
(09:20):
Yeah, I was kind of doing a mixture of
religious studies, art history, and then performing arts. Oh,
okay. Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't know because it sounds like. I mean, that was
a big part of your. Yeah. Obviously your life. You know, I. I
danced all throughout college, but I. I wasn't majoring in it. Yeah. So,
okay. With your songwriting, though, that didn't come. I mean, you. You.
(09:43):
You told me in the first interview that you wrote your first song at, like,
6 years old. I mean, so it was always kind of a part of you
and melodies and. Yeah, but it wasn't until you were
in college that you really kind of started to focus on
songwriting, correct? Yeah, yeah. I.
I always wrote. I always thought that was, like, the most
(10:04):
organic, natural thing you can do. Just. I didn't
even think about. I always. I always wrote
songs. But, yeah, when I got into college,
and I don't even know what it was, but it was.
I guess I just had more time alone to
just mess around on a computer, because I actually had a
(10:27):
computer. And. Yeah, I guess
producing is what made it a little bit more
real for me. And. And I started taking a little bit more
seriously, like, starting to produce, and then I was like, oh,
I can make a whole song by myself. Like, this is really
cool. So. Yeah. Yeah. And then you kind of made a name for yourself,
(10:50):
like, that way through, what, MySpace, right? Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know if I want to say a name for myself. Well, I mean,
you've met people that really like, started to. Yeah,
yeah. That helps that. Well, tokimon said like, you had the two. Two
of the biggest records on the. That first. That one EP
that she put out. Like. Yeah, that's pretty. I think
(11:12):
wild. Yeah. Two of her most popular songs. It is.
Whatever, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy.
Yeah. And that was all just relationships you formed via MySpace?
Yeah, I mean, I met. I met her through MySpace and
then I met, like, my first manager through MySpace.
(11:33):
I connected with my first, like, producer.
That kind of helped me refine some
ideas that I was already kind of creating through. Through
MySpace. Yeah. Yeah. Did you. And
then you ended up working. I don't know. Maybe you still work with Chris Hards.
(11:54):
He said he made a bit. He was a big, you know, part of your.
Your solo career and putting out the. What, the first EP that
you did and. And obviously, yeah, the
album Madam Gold was all done. We didn't meet through MySpace, but.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Ye. He came after the fact. After you kind of
put out music yourself. Yeah. Okay.
(12:18):
So just. Just kind of picking up with Madam Gold. I mean, at the
time we were in the middle of COVID You were possibly
going to be playing some shows in October. I don't
know if the album. I. I don't think the album was out yet.
And that was kind of where we left off, where it was like, okay,
this is my new. You. You discuss the album
(12:41):
as kind of like your new Persona was like, madame Gold
is my new, like. And you kind of discovered that right through
2018 into 2020 and. And then going back
in the studio, recording some songs and adding the interludes and all that stuff.
But, yeah, so that album comes out and then kind of tell me from
there, you know, what. You know, what went on. Did you do
(13:03):
that? Do you do those shows in October? And then kind of. I'm
like, I don't even remember. Yeah. How does that end up folding into this new
album? I mean, that's
a hard, hard question, but I'll try to
answer. Sorry. I don't know. Maybe
that album coming out, like. So the album comes out. It's awesome. And then.
(13:25):
Yeah. Life from there to here. Yeah, it
was. I think at that time,
Madam Gold was like a Persona that I
felt like I needed because I was.
I was kind of like in this low, like, low
(13:46):
frequency kind of darker space.
And Covid definitely exacerbated that. I think a lot of people can
relate to that. And Madam Gold was like this
kind of fighter, you know, Persona that I kind of felt
like I needed to take on. And I
guess I didn't feel like Gavin was enough. Like, so I kind of
(14:09):
needed this way to kind of fight
through the. The time period, fight through the
feelings that I was having. And, yeah,
it felt, like, very necessary, I guess, to. To have
that as a Persona.
And, yeah, when we released that album,
(14:31):
it just. It was really different than this release process,
like, in every way, I guess, because
again, like, it felt like I had to,
like, put on these boxing gloves and just every step was, like
a punch, and every step was, like, slugging through the
mud and trying to move forward and trying to get this out and.
(14:55):
And then with just the state of the world, like, it just
felt like I had to kind of carry, like,
a lot of weight on my shoulders in order to move forward.
And I think that came off, like, in
all the aesthetics, like, in the visuals in any
interview that I did. Yeah, it was just like
(15:17):
this. I have to move forward by any means
necessary kind of attitude. And. And yes,
we did the shows. Those were the
challenge. Like, again, it was just, like, kind of moving
through and carrying this weight and this burden in
order to, like, move forward and move through it.
(15:38):
And then once that was kind of done, it was
out in the world, and I kind of, like, was able to breathe and,
like, take a step back and reflect on it. I
realized that as a
artist and as a vocalist and even as a songwriter,
I was exhausted and kind of
(16:02):
uninspired, and I wasn't really sure where to go next.
Like, I was tired. Yeah, I think I was tired
and. Because the process of making
Madam Gold wasn't easy, and the process of releasing Madam Gold
wasn't easy, I was kind of like, f
music, you know, Like f. I bet. Yeah. I mean, like,
(16:25):
you finished the album, right? I think we were
talking last time, like, all the songs were kind of done in
2018. Right. And then it was like. I mean. Or
you had a. Definitely not 2018. Like. No, the songs
were kind of. I want to say the songs were kind of done maybe
end of 2019. I was 2019, wanting to.
(16:47):
Yeah. To, like, move forward with it. Then maybe you had the
structure of it or something. You had a something of it done maybe by
2018. Or it was the fact that we had started it.
Okay. Yeah. And so it was like, just a very long process.
So it's basically a three year process. Because then you have
Covid and it's like, you can't you finish it? And it's like, now what? We.
(17:09):
Yeah. Put it out and just let it sit here or. Yeah, yeah,
totally. So it was. It was like this long, like, long
haul kind of process. And then, yeah, once it was
released, I was just like, man, this is. This was a lot.
And now I need to reevaluate and acknowledge that I'm not
in the best space mentally in terms of,
(17:31):
like, my confidence as an artist and as a songwriter.
And that. That meant for me just like, taking a
break. Okay. Focusing on something else for a
while. I traveled a lot. I was able to travel a
lot in 2022, which kind of helped
recalibrate my mind and where it was at and. And just
(17:53):
again, like, reevaluate. And then
long story short, at the end of 2022, I had.
I had been in Italy for a month, and
I'm not like wealthy or anything, so it wasn't
like some. It was an amazing trip, but it wasn't
like I was, you know, on. This vacation, my ties and
(18:16):
hanging out. On the beach all day. No, no. It wasn't like I was,
you know, in. Where. Where do the rich people
go? No, I wasn't that, like, I don't know.
I don't even know. No. I basically had done
this, like, somewhat of an exchange because I got someone to rent
him, rent my apartment in la, and therefore I rented an
(18:38):
apartment in Italy because I was able to pay my rent. All this
stuff. So was there for a month and basically just living. I was
by myself and I was working on
another project, not music related, and just able to
just stop thinking about music for a while.
And when I. And it was really refreshing. And then when I got
(19:00):
back, I was like, you know what? Let me
try getting in the studio with someone totally new. Just trying
to kind of reinvigorate myself
and start maybe a new project. I didn't really
know what to expect and I didn't really have any expectations. I was just like,
it's been a long time since I've tried to create music and I should probably
(19:23):
try, you know, like, see what it's like to just get back
in the studio. So I got back in the studio when I. When I
returned, and I actually had.
Covid actually got the producer that I got back in the studio with. We both
got Covid, gave it to him, so. Man,
sorry. Okay. And then after,
(19:45):
like, kind of a month of, like, being out
with COVID me and the producer, we got. We
tried again, got back in again, and what transpired was
the beginning of Diva of the People, really.
Yeah. We ended up writing the majority of Diva
of the People over the next two months. So like, the very
(20:07):
end of 2022. It was October in
November of 2022, and we.
We. It wasn't final vocals. It was basically we. We created,
like, probably eight or 10 demos that turned
into what would be. Yeah, the
majority of the songs that we would finish and develop for
(20:30):
Diva the People. So it was, like, really fun.
It was. It was just fun. I wasn't
overanalyzing anything. I really
had this vision of returning to, like, more of a dance
focus rather than more of, like a funk, R and B.
(20:51):
Like that. That type of vibe, which is more Madam Gold. I was
like, I really just want to get out of this, like,
not only the funk genre, but, like, out of my funk.
Yeah. Go back to, like, stuff that makes me move,
stuff that's ready for the dance floor. Like, a sound that
(21:14):
makes me think of my
inspirations that were kind of always my inspirations,
like artists like Robin and Roisin Murphy and
obviously like Diana Ross and Donna Summer and just kind of taking
all those influences that have always been there that had kind
of, like, been, you know, suppressed somewhat or pushed to
(21:37):
the side somewhat with Madam Gold and just own those again
and take those back into the studio and take the
influences of house back into the studio.
Disco, obviously, soulful
pop, like Michael Janet, just all of that stuff
that I had always loved and just say, like, let's
(21:59):
make fun music. Let's make simple music. Let's let
me, again, focus more on the songwriting and the
songs rather than
the production being so intricate and so,
like, complex and just kind of go back to the basics
(22:19):
and get really simple with it. And that's what we did. And it
just made the process for Diva of the People so
fun. So reinvigorating.
Less. Less analytical and more going with, like, my first
instincts and my natural instincts and, yeah.
Getting back to, like, the love of. Of those.
(22:43):
Those types of songs that I kind of grew up listening to that were
more. More simple and, like, kind of more
fitting for the masses
than, like, a niche genre. Like a niche. Be like,
yeah. Subsective, like, music listeners. I love
that. And it sounds like, yeah, just going in and kind of having
(23:05):
no expectation. Yeah, let's just make something
and. And see where. Yeah. Yeah. And then end up
rolling the ball pretty quickly into, like. Oh, wow. These
are all songs that are what have, like, the same, like, through line
or did you know is going to be starting to become an album or is
it like, oh, we're just making a lot of cool songs. Yeah, I just. I.
(23:27):
I didn't think it was going to be an album. I thought, like, maybe we'll
just do an EP with the. The producer,
which was Spencer Ludwig. And
yeah, it wasn't really anything beyond that, but once the ball started rolling
and I. I felt comfortable enough to
really take the lead in terms of
(23:49):
the production and the songwriting and really steer him in the right
direction. And I was. It felt so good. It
was like, yeah, this feels. This feels right. And then
I was able to kind of recruit other producers to fit in with the sound
that we were kind of already naturally taking. And that was
in 2023, that we were really able to, like, delve
(24:11):
deep into that. And
yeah, it was. It was super, super organic. And I
want to say, like, by mid 2023, we
had. We had the songs. Then I started recording
them, doing the final vocals, final touches.
It's such a process. Mixing. Mixing, I think
(24:34):
started at the end of 2023, went into 2020,
24, and then. Yeah, and then was out.
And then it was out last week.
But it is like, I think.
I think when you're indy to, the process
is extended depending on, like, the resources. Right.
(24:57):
So, like, if you have
kind of high expenses per song, like, that can
really influence the
timing of finishing the songs. Like, my. My
costs are pretty expensive per song for this project
because I recruited a lot of different people to
(25:19):
complete one song. So I. Using
one person and being like, we'll just do all of them. Like, yeah, well,
no, like, I'm. I'm going to break it down because I know people
that listen to this podcast probably are like, more on the music
nerd side, like, wanting. Yeah, they want to know how to do it. They want
to know where you are. Exactly. Like, want to know how to do it and
(25:41):
want to know the real. So for me, this is not typical for everyone
and everyone has their own thing. But for me, for this particular
album, for each song, I had myself
as a writer and producer, and then I usually had another
person. So that's two people already then.
Because me and the producer were very particular about sounds and
(26:04):
just wanting the production to be right. So, for example, for a
song like, Heaven knows, live bass and live guitar were,
like, not negotiable. So then we recruited a great bass
player, Spencer Zahn to play bass, an amazing
guitar player, Philip Menesis, to play guitar.
So did that, you know, paid those people. Yeah, now you got to pay the
(26:27):
live musicians instead of just programming it in. Exactly.
Then we had a great
mixer that ended up doing the drums as well.
So then he was kind of a part of the mixing and
programming drums for that song. So then there's four people,
like, and that's not even, you know, that's. That's a lot of people already.
(26:49):
And everyone we, you know, compensated for for their
part. And then for vocals for every single
song, I had one vocal engineer. So for every
single song, I was paying the vocal engineer per song to
track. You had a different one or. No, a different
vocal engineer on every song on the whole album. Oh, you have one that did
(27:12):
every single song on the album? Yes, yes. Instead of it
being the producer that also cuts the vocals and
also engineers the vocals. I had, like, one guy that did
all the vocals for every song, but then that. Okay. You know,
another guy. Yeah, Per song that I
had to pay for too. So, yeah, the expenses got a little bit
(27:34):
high per song. I think it was worth it. I mean,
it was worth it. I loved the result, but, yeah, it
was a lot. And it was. As a result, it took
a long time to finish just because I needed, like, to make sure that
I could secure the resources financially.
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. To finish the song. And then, of course,
(27:57):
like, when you get to the end of the process is mixing and mastering.
And I mentioned the mixer that we had a guy named Caserta who was
incredible, and then mastering was Joe
Laporta. So everyone had a really vital role to
play. And yeah, it was. It took a. It took a
long time to finish it. Like, when
(28:20):
you kind of take into account, like, all these different people kind of
contributing and then getting paid and then
going back and forth and then, you know, getting. Yeah. Get everybody. And not
only, like, the paying them out. It's like getting everyone in schedule.
When can you come and do it? Right? I mean, you're. Now you're managing a
bunch of different people versus, like, you and maybe one other person,
(28:42):
like, oh, let's just hammer this whole thing out in a weekend or, you know,
a month or whatever it may be. Totally. And when you're. And when you're
indie, you're really, like, a lot of people are
believing in you and. And doing it at very,
like, reasonable rates, you know, which is awesome. And I'm
so appreciative to all of them. But, yeah, it's still. It's still a
(29:04):
lot, and it's still a lot to advantage, and it still
means that the. The timeline might not go as quick
as you. As you want it. So I really, I. I
was like. I told my manager when the album was pretty much written
I was like, we're gonna release this at the end of 2023. And he was
like, okay, we'll see. Then, of course,
(29:26):
September 2024 ended up being the. The best. Yeah,
I'm sure. I mean, it's kind of. When you're independent,
obviously, it's great because you don't have somebody like, down your throat,
like, you need to get this out like tomorrow. And you're not. Like, you don't
have that stressor. But it's also like. Yeah, but then you have to come forward
and be like, well, I gotta go find every. I gotta find the money, I
(29:48):
gotta find the people I've gotta do, you. Know, all of it. Yeah. So it's
like. It's kind of. There's. There's kind of. I'm sure there's pros and cons to
each, but I think if it was me as an artist, I would prefer
to have your situation where it's. Well, at least
I. I'm not gonna have the pressure of somebody that going like, this needs to
get out tomorrow. Like, you have more of the freedom
(30:08):
to kind of probably take your time and release it as you
want. You can put out whatever you want. Really. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. It. There's pros and cons, I think, on either
side of the. The spectrum when it comes to releasing music, for
sure. Yeah. So. Yeah. Because it's.
Yeah, it's so different. I really do like having the creative
(30:30):
control too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the vision now.
And. Yeah, it feels good to
kind of be. Be in the driver's seat and to
executive produce and produce and write
and just feel like,
(30:52):
feel comfortable in that role again. Did you just.
I'm just curious with this album
where the songs just like, you just knew that they're like, was there.
I don't know how to ask this question because it's like, obviously everything you're gonna
put out and you're gonna do, it's a personally personal to you
and you love what you're doing, obviously. But like. And what. What made
(31:15):
you want to do the. Make the decision of like, well, let's like
really go all in on this and like hire one guy to
do all the vocals and. And we need live
guitars and bass on this song. And like, was there.
You just felt like it neat, like, I guess instead of
cutting corners and costs, like, what was the decision between.
(31:39):
You just wanted it to be as best as it could or. Yeah.
Yeah. I just wanted to sound. To sound
like the vision that I had in my mind. Okay. I.
That's a weird question. I mean, obviously you want it to sound the best you
can, but. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, to be like, you know what?
I'm gonna. I don't care. I'm going all in yeah,
(32:00):
no, I believe holding those stops yeah, yeah, I. Oh, I, I believe
in. I guess once this. Once the
demos were there and I could see the
vision kind of coming to life through just the demos.
Yeah, I was. I was excited and I really believed in.
Believed in it. And not every song took that amount
(32:23):
of people, you know, sure. Those were just. Those were probably
three or four of the songs out of. Out of ten.
But yeah, I think even when it came
to, like, mixing
and revisions, like, I just,
(32:44):
I, I'm. I can be relentless. And I think that's
from my experience working with Chris Hart's. Like,
when you work with people that are that talented and that have a standard
that is so high and that are essentially
perfectionists, but are also pretty genius at
what they do, you kind of get that you pick up on.
(33:06):
On a similar way of doing things,
like whether or not you're working with them for every song. Like, I. Chris didn't
do every song for this album, but that mentality of.
Of kind of extracting the best
and like, doing the best that we can with. With each song
and giving each song the attention and the.
(33:29):
To detail and just doing the absolute best that
we can do, like, that totally was instilled in
me. So now I'm going to do that with probably every project.
And. And it's not that it means that I think
every song is perfect on this album because that's. That's definitely not the
case. But I think every song,
(33:53):
every song, except for one. One song,
just the mixing got a little. Got a little weird for me. But
every song had that care in. Right.
Well, it's like once you get to a point, I mean, you want it to
be right. It's like you. You have a, you, you. You set a
bar for yourself. Like, I'm not gonna put something out. That'S not so hot. Yeah,
(34:15):
the bar is like. And that's. I. And I. And I think that a lot
of artists struggle with that too. I mean, I do as far as, like, putting
out content for my show. And yeah, like, if it, like, I will sit.
And I had to hire an editor because I would take me so long because
I'd get so, like, caught up on like, one frame.
I'm like, yeah, like, I. I don't love this. I Don't love how this cut
(34:37):
looks. You know, Then I could sit there for half a day just trying to
fix some little thing, and then most people don't
even notice, right. They're like, what are you talking about? And it's like, but I
noticed, so it's gonna. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I
know. And that's all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Will it matter?
It will. Five more people like it or view it
(34:59):
if it didn't have that frame. Right. Doesn't matter. Like,
it's. You just have that. You just put this, like, standard on what you
think personally, what you want it to look like.
Absolutely. You know, I could see how there's, like, no compromising.
And it's like, no, this is. This is my art. I want it to be
a certain way and it's going to be that. Yeah, I want it to be
great. I don't want to have the regret of, like. Man,
(35:22):
every time I listen to the song now, all I'm going to hear is that
one little thing that I. No, I should have changed that or.
You know what I mean? No, yeah. There is one song. To be.
To be honest, there's one song like that. And every time I listen, I
should have done, but it's okay. But nobody else will ever
notice. You know what I mean? I don't think. Yeah. Oh, I love
(35:43):
my, like, Prayer changes everything Cup. This is so funny. There you
go. Like, all the
mugs in my house are, like, inspirational.
That's cool, though. Faith prayer. I love
it. Yeah. But, yes, I totally agree with you. You.
You get it. Because once you're. What, you're on that train, it's hard to get
(36:06):
off. Right? Yeah. But I mean, it also. It
shows that you work. Yeah. Yeah. And everything. Because
it's like, yeah, it's one thing if
absolutely no one cared. And then you're like, no, this has got to be the
greatest thing ever. And you're like, well, I. Well, you have already kind of set
a bar for yourself, you know. Yeah. Doing this project.
(36:27):
So with this album verse, the last
one, or even with your. The ep you did. Because you did both
of those solely with Chris Hart, Craig or mainly.
Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, I did. I did
Madam Gold solely with Chris, and then. Okay, I worked with a few different people
on the releases before that. Okay. So, yes, you
(36:50):
worked solely with him on Madam Mad Gold. And so going into this one,
it was like, yeah, you had more people. You had more
people on the. On your staff as far as, like, yeah,
Money song, more producers More people and.
Yeah, yeah, it was. I. I thought it was important. And I think for the
next project, too, because I've already started the next thing, it's
(37:12):
for me to be
diversifying, like, who I'm working with
so that I can.
Yeah, I think, like, it's an energetic thing. Maybe it's just, like,
moving around the pieces and not getting too attached to
(37:33):
one person's vision for what it should sound like.
And it helps me kind of take a step back. And
as a songwriter, working
with different producers brings out different elements of what I can do,
like, in what I can bring to the table. So. Sure. Yeah, I. I'm.
(37:53):
I'm pretty. I'm pretty into that idea. Like, Spencer
Ludwig was the primary producer for. For Diva of the
People. I think he did. I think he did six songs, so he
did a lot. Yeah, five or six. And then.
And then a few other producers. Seven.
(38:14):
Davis Jr. Did one with a guy
named Leaf. They did Anybody Home, which is. Turns out to be, like,
a song that a lot of people are connecting with now. And
then Art of Tones, who is an amazing French
producer. He. He did Disco Boots and you and
Me. So. Yeah, I think it was mainly those.
(38:36):
Those three producers. That's amazing. Yeah. You
have some shows coming up, right, to support it. You're playing the Casbo in San
Diego, which is my favorite venue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're
playing there. Wait, on Thursday or something, right? Wednesday. Wednesday,
yeah, yeah, Wednesday. Louisiana. San
Francisco, New York and D.C. so it's a. It's a short run,
(38:59):
kind of just to celebrate, like, the release of the album, and then we'll probably
do something more extensive,
either. Well, I'm thinking probably next. Next year we'll probably
do something a little bit more extensive, but, yeah, love it. Well,
congratulations on the album, and thanks again for
coming back and. And talking to me about this release. Yeah, thank you.
(39:22):
Exciting. I have one more question. I asked you the same question
last time, but I'm gonna ask it again if you have any advice for aspiring
artists. Oh, I love this question.
I think now that I've released a
slew of projects by myself or independently. Not by
myself. I have a team, but independently, I would
(39:45):
say to trust your vision
over someone else's vision for you, in
terms of your visuals, in terms of the
sound of your music. Like, trust the vision
that you have. And usually kind of the first
(40:05):
vision that really hits your heart and, like, that really resonates with
you is the one that will take you
to the next level. So like, for me,
I always kind of had a visual of me, like, as this modern
disco queen. And every time I really committed
to that, I felt myself, like, moving forward and, like, taking
(40:27):
steps in the right direction. And then the times where I got sidetracked from
that vision, I felt myself kind of get
stagnant and frustrated and not sure what to
do, because I wasn't trusting that. And so, yeah,
trust. Trust the vision that you have for yourself.
(40:50):
Bring it backwards,
bring it back. Bringing it backward,
Bringing it backward. Bring it backward,
bring it backwards.
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