BiB: Jake (In Hearts Wake) – Parental Warning: Tarot Cards, Bonus Dads & Metal Core Breakthroughs!

On this episode of Bringin’ It Backwards, Adam and Tera Lisicky sit down with Jake from In Hearts Wake for a raw, insightful look at his unusual journey from the creative beaches of Byron Bay to the international heavy music scene. Jake opens up about growing up surrounded by artists—his mom, a tarot card reader; his “bonus dad,” a hardcore punk frontman—and how the wild energy of side-stage moments at legendary shows set him on the path to forming In Hearts Wake, his first and only band.

From recording DIY demos for school art projects to traveling across the globe to capture their signature sound, Jake shares how In Hearts Wake found early recognition, carved out a unique identity around powerful themes like environmentalism, and pushed boundaries with cryptic album concepts inspired by tarot cards. He explains how their newest release completes a 12-year journey, finishing what they started as teenagers by turning the remaining tarot archetypes into thunderous new songs.

Jake also talks candidly about the band’s evolution, the heartbreak and hope of longtime bassist Kyle’s upcoming departure, and what it really takes to keep a creative partnership together for over a decade. Along the way, you’ll hear about secret album easter eggs, epic on-stage energy, and the power of making sure your art comes from a real place.

If you’re an aspiring artist, a fan of heartfelt heavy music, or just love personal stories about forging your own path, don’t miss this episode. Listen now to get inspired, and make sure to subscribe to Bringin’ It Backwards for more backstage access to your favorite artists’ real stories.

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. What is
going on? It is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast. We're
both listening. Legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories

(00:34):
of how they achieve stardom. On this episode, we had
the chance to hang out with Jake of the band in Heart's
Wake over Zoom Video, Jake talks about where he was born
and raised around Sydney and Australia, Byron Bay, and how he got
into music. His stepdad, or we were calling
bonus dad, is Randy Raymond of the band Mass

(00:56):
Appeal. And Jake didn't even know he was
in a band around, he says, 12, 13 years old.
Mass Appeal got asked to play a reunion show in support
of the West Memphis Three, where they got a chance
to play with Black Flag and Henry Rollins. And that
was the first time that Jake had a chance to

(01:18):
see Randy perform. His bonus dad perform.
So he had no idea what the band was, how big
they were. So we had a chance to be on side stage and
watch him, you know, do what he. What he did for so many
years, and then to see Black Flag and Henry Rollins after the show
that made such a big impact on him. Where is a few years

(01:41):
later, Jake ends up starting a band of his own. He talks about how
In Hart's Wake formed. This is the only band he's ever been in.
They got some recognition fairly early on.
Talked about going to the United States to record their first
album, which ended up getting signed to unfd.
His mom's a tarot card reader, and the first album

(02:05):
was based on 11 of the tarot cards. And
it comes full circle with the new album, where they
picked up and did the remaining 11 cards
12 years later. But Jake gets into a lot of detail
about the band's entire
career. He gets really in depth on all of the albums, so

(02:26):
it's super fascinating. They do a lot of really cool things with each record
where they have all these clues and you can find things and
unlock stuff or additional songs or messages
about bonus albums. And they're doing a similar thing
with this new album. So it was really cool to see kind of the
evolution of the band and where they're at now. When they began recording

(02:49):
the new album or just before it, they found out that
their longtime basis and clean vocalist, Kyle, was
going to leave the band. So they wrote a song with him kind of,
you know, his last song with the band is called Farewell, and
he's doing the last tour and support of this
new album coming up in September. In Australia. So he's talk a lot about

(03:12):
that as well. And you can watch this interview with Jake. It's up now on
our Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing It Backwards. It'd
be amazing if you subscribe to the channel like us on Facebook and
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(03:34):
and hook us up with a five star review.
We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It backwards
with In Heart's Wake. Right on, man. Well, I'm Adam
and this is about you and your journey in music. We'll talk about the album
and. And all that great stuff that works. We can talk about you too.

(03:58):
I'm not that interesting. He moved to Nashville. I
was interested. I generally was. Are you. So you're
from Australia originally, right? Yeah, yeah. Are you living in New
York or. No, no, my family, I. My mom's side,
so half American, so we're all from. Yeah.
New York, a few generations, but

(04:21):
my parents met on. On a
movie set in like New Zealand and I ended up moving to Australia and
that's how I ended up there. Yeah. Wow. I was going to ask if you
come from a creative household. It sure sounds like it. I mean, if your parents.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely the.
I don't call the black sheep in their families, but in some ways. Yeah, you

(04:44):
know, the artists wanting. The ones wanting to do shit differently.
Yeah, the difficult ones. Yeah, that. That's cool.
What do they do in the film industry
back then? But they were both actors. Oh, I studied. My mom went
to Yale doing drama, got a scholarship to go to Yale and
my dad was acting in New Zealand and my mum, you know, went on

(05:07):
an odyssey trip and one way or
another, events led her to New Zealand and then she needed to pick up a
job and so she's like, all right, cool. This is what I'm good at. So
they both met on. Yeah. Movie set back in what, the
80s? Yeah. Wow. Did they continue to act after you were born and
everything? No, once my mum had me, I mean, bless her,

(05:29):
she like, she had another dig. She went back to la, but then she was
like, like, this is not. Like, this
isn't living. This isn't like, I love the art form, but like,
it's not. It's not worth it. Yeah.
Yeah. Did your dad End up continuing deck. No, he
didn't. No, no, they both stopped. My dad went into full, like, all

(05:52):
right, well, we got to get a place. And he ended up buying a bakery.
And. Yeah, he worked for the bakery. Then he bought the bakery because he
realized, like, I was selling it. And this could actually, you know, the cash
flow will generates enough to make it be a viable business. And
then they just doubled down in Australia, and my mom went on to become a
tarot reader because she was always really intuitive. Really got to be.

(06:15):
You've got to be. Really. So she's still a tarot reader now. And my
dad's picked up a couple of little, like, you know, fun acting gigs over the
years. Okay. Maybe send me a photo doing things on
student sets, like, with, you know, little film productions. But they were never for, like,
they were always for passion. Yeah. Not to go make a career out
of it. Yeah. That's awesome that your mom's a tarot card reader. I think that's

(06:38):
so interesting. All that stuff is so fascinating. Yeah. Yeah,
it is. It's. It's. Yeah, it is fascinating.
Yeah. But she got, like, read you guys your cars and stuff in
the. Or was it just something that she kind of did on as her business?
No, it's her business. It's her business, like you. It's not
a. It's not a. Oh, let's just see what happens if we pull a few

(07:01):
cards. It's definitely, like, you've got to go to, like, pretty serious. There's going to
be a need, let's just say. Okay. And so people that come to
her, they're not the curious. The curious people, let's call. It
doesn't always work out for them because they're coming in with a Just
like, you know, a feeble curiosity as opposed to people that have a need.
And we have a need, I believe. And from experience,

(07:24):
like, that's when. I don't know. I use
the better term. Spirit
intuition, you know, the. The other side. The things that come through, that's
when those things come through. And there's a need, because that's usually
when they're getting too deep. It's usually when our hearts are most
open. You know, we have a need either in a time of crisis, breakup,

(07:46):
death, or longing, or, like, searching, you know, it's like, what am I
gonna do? Yeah. And so she. Yeah, she actually went on
a few. Like, they're funny, but like, TV shows, those getaway. Kind
of like, we're going to Byron Bay, you know, like,
you Know, like, was going to get a tower rating of Byron Bay. And she
went on a few of those shows as the T reader that they went and

(08:06):
visited because she had such a good rapport and,
you know, just was the main reader in Byron at the time. And they
came in with such, like, curiosity, but also just, like, for the TV show
aspect. Yeah. A member of Gray Story, where she just like.
Like the presenter was this, like, pretty egotistical
dude. No personality. Yeah. And so

(08:29):
she flips. She did. They did the cards and it was just like, well, man,
you've, like. You're going through like a lot here. You've got a divorce coming up
and this addiction. And he was just like, turn the cameras off. Like, how
do you know this shit?
And she's like, he just explains how it's coming out. And he was like, just
weekend out, you know, like, you know, so. And sometimes it

(08:51):
gives people what they need, not always what they want,
but. Yeah, so that's. My mum did. Went onto that path,
helping a lot of people and. And that
curiosity, for me at least, about that world, led
to doing a record, Divination, which is our first album
back in 2012. But we'd spent a couple years writing it,

(09:14):
so I was like, 1920 at the time. And
it was just this exploration of. I did some tarot courses
and thought, like, this is a great concept to
write a record about because each card
is like. It's a story and a thruway into

(09:35):
characters. Like, whether it's Gandalf in Lord of the Rings or it's
Dumbledore in Harry Potter. These are like the. The magician or
the hermit characters that are in tarot. Just like
Frodo is the full card, the full meaning. Like, you
know, the innocent fool that's like, you know, got a heart of gold, that's walking
the razor's edge all the time.

(09:57):
So, yeah, I guess what I'm saying is these archetypes in all the movies and
franchises that. That we love as kids and even teenagers,
the medicine of them is like. Is baked in tarot.
And so it just went through this, like, wow, I can. I can really sink
my teeth. And it's really real for me, these songs and his stories.
And so that started Divination, which really kicked the

(10:19):
band off. Yeah, yeah, no, for
sure. I was. And I love it. And I love that you have. I
mean, one of the albums has, like, like an encrypted message in it and stuff.
Like, that's just so creative and, like, I've never heard of Any other bands,
like, doing that? Like, I mean, when I was growing up, you know, CDs were
the thing tapes and CDs and like, green Day had, like, on dookie, like

(10:42):
the secret song. You try to, like, fast forward 25 minutes for,
you know, a song, like. But the way you guys did it with just like
having to decode within there. What, in the liner
notes? Not the liner notes.
I mean, you could get the liner notes definitely unpacked the meanings
of the songs as specifically to the tarot cards. But each song,

(11:04):
it had in brackets next to which card. You know, it was,
okay, so like Neverland, the Star, Traveler, the Fool.
So it's. It's. It's the format in which each song was given. So people knew
which cards they were about. And there's 22. There's
22 major Arcana cards. And these are these archetypes,
22 of them in every tarot deck. And so we did 11. And

(11:26):
so there was 11 still sort of left unspoken for.
Because the songs didn't relate to those 11. It wasn't. It wasn't a choice that
it just. That's the cards that the other 11 were. And so for like, yeah,
12 years, these cards were kind of just. We never really.
It's. I guess you call unfinished. But there was no, like, we have to come
back and finish this. But it was always this sort of knowing that

(11:49):
these cards are out here. Maybe we'll revisit them someday. And
fast forward 12 years. Like, the timing was right to.
To revisit them in a. In a much more mature, darker
way, because state of the world and, you know, actually feeling like
adults now. And that's what the new album is. Right? You
picked up kind of on those last 11 cards. Yeah,

(12:11):
exactly. So interesting. So these. These are really dictated
now. Obviously, you couldn't. It couldn't be as broad to have 22 and find 11.
It was like, no, these are the 11. So it meant it's like, here's
your targets, each song. And that, like, what's
the great. There's a great indigenous proverb. It's, you know, an arrow without
a target always misses. And so when you've got that target and

(12:33):
it's clear, like, these are the goal posts, like, you really can
put all your intention into really, like, making the devil
card. Like, what is that? And really going there.
So. So, yeah, it was more potent, I would say, in this record.
So fascinating. Well, just to back up. But even before that first album came out,
like, so how do you originally get into music. I mean, obviously

(12:56):
parents were actors and did they play music at all
as well? Or like how do you get introduced? And like what was. Did you.
Were you in piano lessons or did you get guitar lessons at an early age
or anything like that? Yeah, at my starter school. Went to
Rudolph Stein School and we had to. Because compulsory to
learn instrument. And so everyone was doing violin and cello

(13:17):
and you're supposed to pick up one of those two and like, that's not for
me. Like I. So. So I just sort of refused
and like, hey, can I do guitar? And they gave me permission to like,
yeah, okay. Like, sure. Like they were nice enough and you know, not
nice enough, but just like, okay, the kid wants to do talent guitar. So I
got guitar lessons and I was always listening to my parents CDs.

(13:39):
Massive Attack, Chris Isaac, Michael Jackson, the
Beatles, like just always, you know, in that collection that we all play when you're
at home. So I got to understand music that
way. But it was until. So my parents. My parents
broke up. It had a divorce at like 7 or 8 years old.
And a year or so later.

(14:01):
I don't like the term stepdad, but he was. He's just
guardian epic. And it's. My other dad essentially came into my life.
Yeah, bonus dad. I'm a bonus dad. So I, I respect that.
Yeah. Step. Step. That's a weird. The term stepdad. I think you
go straight to like all the Disney movies and there's the stepmom and the evil

(14:22):
stepmom. Exactly. Yeah. I love that you said that. You see
it that way. That's amazing. Yeah. So, yeah, it's not a step. It's like.
It's like extra dad bonus data. Like that bonus. That's cool. I'm
gonna. So
bonus dad was actually a musician. He played in a hardcore band called Mass
Appeal. And they were like, I didn't know it at the time and

(14:45):
only realized it later how much of a big band they were in the late
80s, early 90s. They. They. They toured with
Anthrax, they tour with like Black Flag,
I think Fugazi. They're in the Fugazi too, I'm pretty sure. Just all.
When all. When all those bands came to Australia, like Massive Heel were like the
band that, you know, they were the parkway driver at the

(15:07):
time to go, you know, to tour with the punk bands, get
the support. And they were from Sydney. So
I didn't understand music. But my, My
bonus dad got asked at age. When I was age 12 or
13 to do a reunion show because Henry Rollins was
doing a West Memphis three Black Flag reunion

(15:30):
tour. And I was in support of the West Memphis three fundraiser for those.
Oh yeah. Convicted. Yeah. Oh yeah. That was. And I'm.
I. When I was driving to. When we drove
from San Diego to Tennessee, you go through West Memphis,
Arkansas into West Memphis, Tennessee. I mean, it's
bizarre. They're like right there. And yeah, we drove buy all

(15:52):
that because I was. I remember when that happened and
I was at like an Alkaline Trio show. I'd never heard of it. In the
beginning of the show, they played kind of a
short video of what was happening and like Eddie Vedder was in the video
and like that was such an interest. I mean that whole thing was just
so wild and how that was all happened. And then they really never.

(16:14):
I mean it was alluded that it was a stepfather. And we'll go
with stepfather on that one that you know. You know, that did
it. But wow. So, okay, so that was happening and then they were
going to do a show in support of, you know,
fundraiser. Yeah. For them. Yeah. And
Henry Rollins, you know, he wasn't a member of Black Flag, but he was like.

(16:36):
Had brought it. Like it was billed as
Henry Rollins with Black Flag. A Black Flag with Henry Rollins. I can't remember. Henry
Rollins is very much on the poster to like show that he was not
still part of the band, but they were getting together to like play this special
tour and they. Henry had specifically asked a mass appeal
to like to be on the tour because they had toured together in the past.

(16:58):
And so there. There I was, I was like, I don't know how old. I
keep saying 11, 12, 13. I can't quite remember, but pre
puberty, this little kid, like I remember being on side
stage, they pulled me in the back. Security guards were super reluctant to let me
into this 18 + like drinking know venue
as security guards always are. They've got all the. You know,

(17:20):
I get it. But anyway, so I'm standing side stage and I remember watching
my stepdad just like, like screaming
like, you know, the calm like, chill dude. And then he's on stage, he's gone
nuts. And it was a sold out for the band.
Is the vocalist. Yeah. And. And
like this punk, it was hardcore punk. I didn't understand the music, but I understood

(17:42):
the energy. And the crowd was going absolutely nuts.
I'd never seen anything like it. It was like a mix of like head
banging and chaos, you know, like everything was just being thrown around the room
and it was just like I was hooked, you know, and
then I got to watch Henry do it with a Black flag. And then I
got to meet Henry after the show. I remember just this, you know,

(18:05):
got a presence about him, and he was still really, like, in his,
like, you know, I want to say. No, he's an old guy now, but he's
in his youth. Like, he's still very, like, energetic and fit and have
this big energy. I remember. Hey, man, what's up? You know, like, got to meet
him. Like, Brandon, Randy, my step, like, hey, Henry, this is my son Jake.
And it was like, oh, my God, this dude is so scary on stage, but

(18:27):
you're so nice, you know, like, backstage. And it kind of
completed the. The paradox, you know, of my
knowing my dad step. My bonus dad is calmly going on the stage and
then seeing the other way around, where the guy was crazy and then meeting Henry
offstage, and he was nice. And I'm like, okay, this adds up. But these people
are. Something going on here. They're letting their stuff out and

(18:47):
providing a space for people to go nuts. And
it's not necessarily who they are offstage, but it's still a part of them. So
I thought that was really cool. I can imagine how that would
get you into music. I mean, being sidestage for shows like that and.
And having your. Your bonus dad
be, like, in this band, like, I mean, to not know how big of a

(19:10):
deal they were, you know, at 11, 12, 13, whatever
years old, and then they do this reunion show, and you're just like, damn. Like,
was that the first time you had a chance to see him perform like that?
Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. That wasn't. You know, we didn't
have. I don't think there was YouTube. You
know, I couldn't just go on YouTube and watch something at that point. Yeah. And

(19:31):
they weren't playing actively. They did a reunion. No, exactly. They
fully joined back up. So, I mean, he might have showed me a few photos
to allude to. Oh, yeah. I was in a band, like, but I had no
concept of it. Right. Yeah. I wasn't like, check this out. Like, I was in
this. Yeah. Yeah. He just happened to find out all this crazy
information. My. My Black Flag story is

(19:51):
my. My son. My. My. The one that I'm
bonus dad to in second grade, his
teacher, her brothers or her. Yeah, her
brother's Greg Ginn and from. From Black
Flag, and her other brother is the one that does all the art for.
You know. You know, he's done all the art for A bunch of different

(20:13):
people. And then Black Flag. We saw Black Flag at a
skateboard demo that we're at. And,
you know, he's like. He has a picture of Greg and he's like, in second
grade. And it's so funny because he usually doesn't like
photos. He doesn't do like interviews or anything like that. But, you know,
we walked up to him, I was like, oh, my. My son's. Your. Your

(20:35):
sister's my son's teacher. And he's like, really? We're like, yeah,
Erica McMenam. And he's like, oh, my God. And then. So like, he took a
picture with him and stuff. It was. It was wild, you know. And then he
got to see him play and like, Mike Valle was singing Black Flag at the
time. But it was. It was wild. But wow. Yeah. For him
to see, like, whoa, that's my second grade teacher's brother. You know,

(20:57):
probably similar to what you said. You're like, oh, that's my dad's like, band. Like,
this is crazy. Crazy. But so that.
That obviously gave you the damn, like, this is what I want to do was
like, did you kind of have that at that moment or was it just like,
this is really cool? And then eventually you kind of realized like, that's.
Yeah, yeah. I don't think it was a penny drop. It's the way

(21:18):
I want to do. It was just like I was exposed to it
and I didn't realize it was what I wanted to do, I think,
until we moved to Byron Bay.
Okay, were you in Sydney at the time? Wait, no, no, sorry. We were already
living in Byron Bay, but we just gone down to Sydney to watch the gig.
Okay. So we were already living in Byron Bay, but it wasn't until.

(21:41):
I don't know how I found out about it, but there was like some local
hardcore shows on, like happening at the youth center. This
tiny little. And two roller doors, like garage doors that they roll
up and it's like five bucks
and you go and, you know, a bunch of local hardcore bands would play.
And it just so happened that the first show I

(22:02):
went to, I didn't go with my dad. I went with some friends from
school. I think we were all 13, 14. So it's going to be within the
year after I've seen, you know, massive. Your play. But
it was in my. This one might have been 10 bucks. Pretty sure it was
10 bucks, which was like, you know, expensive. But it was. It was
Terror. Terror were the headliner. Oh, wow. And

(22:25):
then it was like all these bands that were like, local, like 15 was like
my own 50 lines. No, it wasn't 50 lines. Doesn't matter who they were, but
they're all local bands. And
it was like the promoter was Resist Records, which were the. The band I
had Sun Parkway Drive. The Parkway Drive One
weren't. Weren't massive yet. Like, they weren't selling out shows yet. Because I went

(22:47):
to a Parkway show, like, pretty soon after. It was five bucks.
It wasn't sold out. You know, it was like, yeah, really
cool time when you. Yeah, yeah. When you felt like you were part of something
that wasn't yet meeting its demand. Like, you know what I
mean? There's still supply for it, but, like, it wasn't like, sold out, can't make
it in. So it felt like you discovered something because you knew how cool

(23:10):
and like epic the energy was and the space was. And I was meeting people
and. And that's where I sort of met the other half of
the band, which would be in Harts Wake. They actually
opened. They opened the show for Terror. They
were just like 2:14, I think like 13:14. Same age as
me. And I was a drummer and a guitarist. And

(23:32):
I knew that my two neighbors, like,
we. We, you know, got interested in playing hardcore shows. And so later on I'm
like, I know a drummer and a guitarist. They opened the Terror show like they
were in a good band and they were like, oh, I go to school with
them. You know that my neighbors. I go to school those guys. There's a natural,
like, inroad of me asking them and then
they. Those guys asking them at school. And next thing you know, we're all playing

(23:55):
music together for a battle of the bands that was coming up. And
it's the three of the same members. But, you know,
two have changed over the years. But we're still, still the band
now. Were you guys in Harts Wake at that time? Was this, like,
the band? So this was really your first band? Exactly,
yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Not that not many people have that story

(24:19):
to be like. And have it work and have you guys all still
be, you know, friends and close and. Because usually, you know, you
get to a point with a band or I hear the story a lot where,
you know, some people, you know, it's so much work,
right? I mean, you're, you're. You're grinding, there's no money. In the beginning, you're just
trying to do anything. You're sleeping on floors. And some people

(24:41):
just can't. Like, they realize, like, this isn't my
vibe. You know, I want to get married or I want to do this or
I want to do that. And to have you all kind of stay together
in and continue on, I mean, that's huge.
Yeah, it takes a lot of work to. To stick at it. You got to
have a lot of. A lot of conversations and don't let this sort of

(25:03):
build up underneath the bed, you know, so then it's like.
Yeah. And I think, I believe. I know we've gotten really good at
being able to communicate over the years and
that's. That's been essential. You know, the two members that did change in shop
and change, it's been bass and drums. Those are. Those roles have
changed out and you know, that. That is for those

(25:26):
reasons. Like, one wanted to go on and have a family
and the other was a personality thing and, you know, who knows what.
But yeah, just. You make the calls at the time, right? Yeah, yeah. But
us three, the two guitars, myself, we really had to,
yeah. Become good communicators. And it's been kind of like a true

(25:47):
north, you know, for us, the band, at this point, when we been in the
band more than half our lives.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. A bit. A bit of a tune off, you know, it's
like, oh, yeah. Like at least we got the band. We can. We can pour
out. It's like a diary entry to. And creative,
like dump. To be able to like. Yeah. Express.

(26:09):
So it's very lucky to still have it. Amazing. You guys did
what, like your. Your first, like, kind of. Tell me, you know, you said that
first album kind of was the pinnacle. That kind of what really boosted the
band. Right. But you had a couple EP prior to that first album coming out.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. A couple of EPs that was like a
demo. We did the Battle of the Bands. You had to have an original song.

(26:31):
So we wrote an original song. We play at the Battle of the Bands. Only
one of our members of the band was actually from that school. And
so we didn't win. Like, we got told afterwards because it was his guitar teacher
was like, yeah, you know, get the band to play the other bands, it'd be
fine. Like, he's like, I can't, can't. Can't give you the top
prize or anything because, you know, guys aren't all from this school. Like,

(26:52):
that's pretty lame. You're like, but what if we won?
Exactly. But there was, there was, it was. We were still
like, I think it was a Christian school. You know, like, we're like We're Christian
and we're like. We're fully just. You know, it's been us doing our thing.
But I think the people were like, what is this? Like, there's some screaming
and I don't know, you know, like, it wasn't. Yeah. I was gonna say, were

(27:12):
you guys heavy? I'm sure you're a pretty heavy band. Even back. Yeah. At that
point, they're like, what's going on? So we didn't.
We didn't win, whatever. But we made a demo after that, and
then it's like, okay, do you make an album? Not. Not ready.
So the Glorified demo is the EP at that time. And
I did it for my school project. You could actually do. For art. You could

(27:35):
like, wow. So I was like, okay, cool. I'm gonna record my band for art.
So we did that. The artwork, I got to basically do it. Like. One of
my curriculums was like, make my bands episode and do it all,
like, you know, really professionally with, like, you know, the. Why did you do this?
Like, you had to do this whole big folder of essays
and essays and stuff. So it actually really allowed me to. It was cool that

(27:57):
I could do that. To learn a lot quickly.
Yeah. And then it was all right, what do you do next? You know, kind
of keep playing Sydney, Brisbane, and driving to these places
and Byron Bay so many times. So it was like, all right, let's all move
into a house together. I think we're 18 and
we all save up. Then we'll go to America to record. Because there's no one

(28:18):
in Australia that was, like, that sounded the way we wanted to sound. No one
recording gear at the time was, like, shy. And I think it
was also partly because there was as much experience with Australian producers.
Even Parkway were going overseas. They're recording with Adam D.
They're probably the first. The first band to, like, I think

(28:39):
I Kill the Prom Queen, I think record in Adelaide. But we didn't. We weren't
that stoked in the recording. So it was like, let's get overseas.
So we saved up. We all worked our asses off, and we went
over and recorded Josh Schroeder in Michigan. And that was
like the. You know, we were hungry and we put everything into
it, and that often produces the best results. And it was

(29:00):
enough to make a good record that we were proud of that we could go
send to labels. And UNFD were one of the labels that, like,
yeah, this is great. Let's make this work. And so
that. That really kicked it Off. So they signed you with, like,
you presented them this, that album, right? The first album. Exactly.
Now, we funded it and, you know, we, we, we.

(29:22):
We did it all ourselves and that we didn't have any outside, like,
you know, like money or import. It was just us and
Josh. Josh Schroeder, he's the sixth member of the band. He was a
great mentor and sort of steward when we went to record
with him, because we were the first international band, I think,
at least from Australia, there might have been a European band that had recorded with

(29:45):
George. And so he was like, wow. Wow, you guys are, like,
really betting on me and putting all your money into me. And I've just got
this bedroom studio. So he was like, I better step up too, you know? Yeah.
I was wondering, like, he probably felt a lot of pressure. He's like, oh, man.
Okay. Yeah. Money to come here. Like,
we gotta make this a great album. Yeah. These guys are kids. Like, then we

(30:06):
think we were just turning 21. Some of us weren't even 21 yet. So we
couldn't even go into, like, you know, legally into all the bars yet. So
we were kids as far as he was concerned. And he didn't want to. Do
you want to it up? So he was as hungry as we were. And
that. That. That really created good results. That's what we
needed. Yeah. Yeah. And when you sign with unfd,

(30:27):
do they, like, how does that change? Like, are you able to
have access to bigger tours? Obviously? I mean, the album does awesome. You,
You. You know, you. You're like. You're on the charts
there in. In Australia with the album and everything else,
right? Yeah, it came as far as
charts go. I remember it was like, think number 27. It debuted

(30:49):
at 27, which was like.
Which was like. We didn't even know what. We didn't know what the charts
meant, I think. And it didn't really mean anything at the time because it's always
changing. But still, it was a number. And for the first time we figured out
we were like, you know, ranked at. Yeah, it was probably like a
validation, right? You're like, wow, okay. People care about. Totally,

(31:10):
totally. But UNFD was a label that we really admired
because they had signed, they had broken. Like, when I said broken, they
had, you know, the. Under the Affliction were the
early stuff, I think was on unfd. And
we were really good friends with North Lane. Like, we were touring together in Australia,
regionally, a lot of. And then seeing them get signed and,

(31:33):
like, had a record so we already had friends and house plus Hurricane. Dream on,
Dream on. These were bands that we had, you know, open their shows and played
their things in Australia. So we were just like joining the family that we.
We already were a part of. Just not officially in some way. Right.
And they have so many good bands. I mean, they, you guys, they still do.
Right. And but even before that, I mean, Beartooth, I think was on that label

(31:54):
at one point. I mean, maybe, maybe a bad deal.
I don't know. But I don't know. Sure. I think Red Bull always had better.
Okay. But I know that like, I was just looking at the.
Like before I got on with you, I was just kind of looking at who
they have now. I've had air on my. On my show a couple times. But
like, I mean, you. They. Frank Euro has his, his stuff

(32:15):
out on there. I mean, that's so crazy. Silverstein. I mean just. There's a lot
of big name bands that yours truly had on here who are great
band from Australia as well. Yeah, they definitely
dabbled in. In all different areas for sure. But back then it
was very much like there was no
international bands. It was just. Oh, it was only Australian bands.

(32:38):
It was only Australia. Exactly. And they were, they were the band
breaking, you know, the bands out and giving them a real
opportunity. It was kind of what Rise were doing in America.
Rise Records back in the day Fair, when.
Yeah, you know, when it was Deadwear's Prada and all those
bands that were coming through.

(32:59):
So yeah, so it definitely, once you get that
certification and validation of a brand, it also
opens up other doors where you can start opening a whole bunch more to it.
So then all of a sudden we got to open at the end to Shikari
tour. I think it was our first tour. Where were you like, oh, this is
a big, you know, this is a bigger band. We're actually on a. Gonna be

(33:21):
playing like, you know, a couple thousand people. This is scary, you know.
Yeah. And when do you kind of get like at that point, were you
just still just playing in Australia mainly or
maybe New Zealand and Australia. Well, yeah, not hadn't played New
Zealand yet at that point. It was and Shikari till first
and then. Then came the Amity Affliction European tour

(33:45):
which was, yeah, you can open this tour. And so it was like really
exciting to go to go to that. So that was our.
That opportunity came from Divination on that touring cycle.
And then, you know, doors start to open and then it's like, okay, we've got
to get this band to America at some point.
And I believe

(34:07):
America took a little bit of time, but it was.
We actually. It actually coincided with two things. Ambie Affliction, Stick to your guns at
a co headliner. And we managed to get an opening spot on
their tour and right at the same time, the Ghost Inside,
which we had supported in Australia, just like we came such
good friends and they loved our music. And so we're doing an American tour. We're

(34:30):
going to a regional tour, B Markets, you know, can
you do it? And it just has so happened that that tour started two days
after the Stick to Guns Amity tour. And because with B Markets on, with
A markets, it meant, you know, we couldn't. Because you can't just play the
same stuff so close to each other. It disrupts
exclusivity sometimes with tours. Yeah, there's like clauses, the

(34:51):
radius clauses and all that. Fun. Yeah. Come in all the business.
The business. Yeah. And just the exclusivity, which I totally get. You know,
give them an opportunity, you want to make it count. But it meant we could
do both tours. So all of a sudden we're in America for like seven, eight
weeks and we like thinking finished a tour in California, played
a Data Remembers festival, opened it. Remember it was called Self Help.

(35:13):
And yeah, that's a. That's a huge thing that they do. Yeah.
And we started the next tour with Ghosts Inside.
So I was like, yeah, you know, like a world was sort of blown open
at that point. Opening these bands that we just
adored. Wow. And then, I mean, you've
put out so many albums, right? I mean you're doing an album like every year.

(35:35):
Every couple of years. For every two years. Every. Yeah, every
two years since really what the band formed or
I guess like Covid probably was a factor in the.
The few year gap between the last two albums. But
yeah, yeah, very, very busy.
We just. Yeah, we got smart, you know, we recorded a double record,

(36:00):
which we're really proud of because we had so much content, like was good songs.
It wasn't just filler. And that double record we were able to release a year
apart, each. Each half of each other. This is what
you know, was the follow up to Divination. And so, you know,
you call ammunition. You've also got like two records for
the price of one. One trip and one. And the time that took

(36:22):
to go there once and were able to follow up in quick
succession and then tour off that as well. So that really
like three, four years that became our. You know,
it was One recording session for three to four years, but with. Two records,
was that like going in and recording? Like, was that. I
mean, having that much material and then kind of separating it in that big of

(36:45):
a gap, was that like, did you feel like at one
point maybe you'd have even more songs and was it like, is this going to
work? You know what I mean? Like, if you have all that in one batch
and then you're obviously writing and writing and writing out even after that fact,
like, did you feel like you might get backed up or like, is it
worth. Are we gonna do this second half or. Oh yeah, there's. There's

(37:06):
a bit. There's a bit. There's always that talk in the room. Yeah.
Like quality, not quantity. You brought
quality every time. So it wasn't like a matt. You know what I mean? Yeah,
yeah, yeah. But that's still the conversation that comes up. Because when you're so close
to your art or stretching to make a leap, you know there's
going to be a go to check yourself and have a conversation. As second

(37:28):
guessing always happens as an artist all the time. There's
times that just feels good and you just know it's good. Like in terms of
like, it feels good and music, a piece of music. But in terms of a
collection of songs, there's always the subjective, like, does this song make the album? Is
this something to be? You know, there's always that when you got five people.
So it came up, but I think we were shorter somewhat too.

(37:51):
So we were in the studio going, okay, we're going to write one to two
more. Rather than having so much they were cutting it back because coming up
with 22 songs for a recording session is a lot of material
when you don't want it to be filler. But it
fit, it fit the concept and the narrative that I felt really
strongly about, which I pitched to the band and then, you know, we made it

(38:12):
ours as a band. But having this concept of like,
of, you know, Mother Earth and Father sky and to tell
that story into two. Two records ten years ago when.
Yeah, I just. Nowadays that kind of stuff, it can
New age kind of like, you know, it almost becomes cringe. But 10 years ago,
at least it wasn't happening in the metal world. Like right, right, right.

(38:34):
Talking about this stuff and it was so real, like
to us because we were from this natural beautiful world that we just adored
and. And yet we're in cities and backstreet playing these
rinky dink venues where you can tell like not to
Judge it. But there wasn't a high vibe of people really thriving in the environment.
So like the separation and that. That stuff started to be apparent and then let's.

(38:58):
Let's write a record about the things that we not feel strongly about but we
want to protect. And I kind of spark this. This
is deeper journey of connection to the natural world.
Love it. And when we were talking, we were talking kind of like, you know,
you had the tarot cards and then 12 years later, I want to get into
this new album and how cool it is that you've kind of revisited that. But

(39:19):
I think it was it arc is that you had the. The
where you. You kind of hid stuff in the.
Was that the one where you hid stuff in there and it kind of smelled
out a message or am I getting totally confused? It was
the double record before that. Oh about the second half
when they. Yeah. Behind the CD put a C. And I was like this

(39:41):
clue on a piece of you know, one sheet of that. The poem
and a symbol. And I like someone happened to find it because they dropped the
city and you know the jewel cases, these are like scatter out. You have to
piece them back together. And someone found it behind and they're like what the hell?
Like what is this? And that's how it
found out. So then when we announced the record a year later, everyone

(40:03):
was opening the city cases to like see and like oh, it was there all
along because you know, it didn't. No one was. No one knew and
it didn't go. It's like it went viral when someone scattered their city
case. Wait, that's just the first we heard about it. Someone commenting and asking
us. But no one really didn't spark anything for everyone to go check
until the record was announced a year later. And then you got the artwork.

(40:26):
When you're the actual CD booklet. It was this fold out spread
of. Of like a landscape and they. And they fit one above the other
with the landscape going like this together. That's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh
I love that. Yeah, yeah. It was cool. It was a cool. It was a
such a fun project. Oh but okay.
Ark was the one where you did the like the reimagined songs right. With Ark

(40:48):
prevails. But that was something that people had to figure out, right?
Yeah. Ark. I can't remember what we did with Ark to be honest clue wise.
But that was us heading into to what we felt was. Was the
importance of water, the element of water. So we
just went there with like we are on water planet and you know, like
basically blue gold, like water is more precious than gold.

(41:11):
And so that, that was this whole other journey
of, of, you know, how can we affect
and create a better planet. So I can't remember the clues in terms of
the CD as such, but it just felt, it felt bigger and more as
a maturing that started to happen. Instead of doing signings, we were doing, you know,
cleanups on beaches. We'd have 50, you know, 50 of

(41:34):
our closest fans and Seattle, Melbourne,
Christchurch in New Zealand. Like it was all these different places and we meet and
we don't get bags and we just clean a whole beach for a couple hours.
And we'd have like just piles and piles of trash. We would find doors and
chairs and pool toys and you know, sometimes a thousand cigarette butts. We had
a count one time someone. And we have photos of all this stuff and get

(41:55):
a big, you know, big photo together. And it was just like really cool meeting
on that level of, of like it's not. I'm at this table and there's a
pen and you know, like it's. There was no. It didn't feel
as stagey pedestally.
Sometimes those environments create a situation where everyone's lined
up and this was just all of us together doing this stuff. I felt

(42:17):
really good and like that was, that was a whole other unraveling
of, of our. Yeah, I
don't want to call, I don't like the word environmental but it was a, you
know, a self awareness journey of what kind of do we
have on stage if we're picking up pool toys on the
beach that are washed up? We've got pool toys on stage and

(42:38):
this, the dual cases that we inclusion are the ones that we're finding broken and
cracked washed up on the beach. A couple of CDs were found. You know, it's
like, oh wow. Like, okay, how do we reduce our
sort of consumption of plastic and do things in a, in a more
sustainable way that isn't just like, you know, taking the fun out of it
basically? Yeah. And because you're a pretty big ambassador for all that

(43:00):
stuff, right? I mean you have. Well, it's more
curious. Yeah, you can call an ambassador. Yeah, I'm just curious. Like
I see it as a challenge and I see it as like
a challenge that needs to be solved basically because I just can't
keep going on the way it is. But I'm not like a
extremist in that sense. I don't consider myself that. But I project as

(43:23):
an artist would approach it. Like, I just feel like I don't know what the
hell I'm doing, but I just give it a go and I ask questions,
but I don't. I don't like to ever think I'm an expert other than this
is what I've learned. That's it. And you're. But you're supportive of it, and
you're. In your voice, your. Your support for it. Yeah, yeah.
Which is rad, especially with the platform you. You guys have created for yourselves and

(43:45):
stuff. Yeah, you're right. That's. That's technically definition of an
ambassador. Somehow the word ambassador feels so proper.
Maybe we can think of another word. I don't know. I know what you mean.
I know exactly what you mean, though. Yeah, it's. Yeah.
In support of. Yeah, yeah. Perpetuating
that way of being. Yeah, I get it. Sure. With that. Well,

(44:08):
you did an album before the. This. This one's coming out, and I think you
released. Just via the Internet. You guys released a
single for you, kind of dropped the single from the album, like,
on March 17, which, you know, worldwide suicide, which is
kind of like when everything in the world
really. I think it was here, like, March 17, 2020, was

(44:30):
when, like, the world really stopped. Right? Yeah, man. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. The timing of that record was not
like, we. Yeah, we written and
recorded that. We'd finished it six months prior, and
we'd been writing it a year before that. And all of the
songs, once we. You know, once you've got this body of

(44:52):
work, it's like, for this record, we knew that we were heading into the fire
element because it's the only element left unchecked. And as we're recording
the record, Australia has its biggest bushfires
ever recorded. That was insane. And we had, like, the
size of. I was Belgium or one of the European countries. A lot
of land, essentially, like, you know, the size of a

(45:15):
country, not a big European country, was the land that got torched
and we lost so many animals. And I'm looking at photos and videos of,
you know, the neighborhoods that I grew up in. You can see, like, the whole
sky red, and it's, like, on fire. And you're like, oh, my God, like, the
world is literally ending back home, and we're writing a record of that fire.
And so it was scary and kind of, like,

(45:38):
appropriate of what we were doing to put into our art.
So worldwide suicide was written in a day and a feeling of like.
Like, what are we doing? How we are? We're exacerbating all of these
These issues that you know, like forest cement to
burn naturally. But we, we don't let them burn because
obviously we've got houses and you know, state like,

(46:01):
you know, all of the reasons in the indigenous was so good at knowing when
to burn and when to allow it to burn. So you've got a basically big
tinder bundle ready to go up and you get a strike of lightning or. Or
any arsenal, you know, ask for the arsonist
and boom, it goes up. So it's just this whole
theme of like what are we doing to ourselves in the planet. And they're so

(46:24):
interlinked the health of everything. So we
planned worldwide suicide to come out on this date, you know, March 17th.
We looked at the record as a body work. Okay. It feels like end of
days, so to speak. It's not be doom and gloom about it because we're
not. But it's Kali Yuga, which was prophesied by the Hindu
ancients thousands and thousands of years ago, which would be like this coming

(46:46):
to a head of everything where we would like, you know, no longer
worship gods in the spirit, but we'd worship gods of the
flesh. Like it's Brad Pitt and Angelina and who's having the
next, you know, super twins or whatever. Yeah, right, right. You know,
so it feels like that that's called. You guys felt so
appropriate. We had everything planned and then.

(47:09):
Yeah. Like the time even on. On the front cover. Like she's
even got a. She's even holding one of her hands,
a cell phone in other hands holding like the needle, like the
injection needle. Referring to modern medicines and stuff.
And. And that became one of the biggest topics for the next two years
and, and debates of you know, like oh, vaccine getting

(47:31):
vaccinated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just like. So it was just like
it was just all coming to us to the surface. So while that.
That was already. Yeah. And already already something that you guys had pre
planned out. And then it just kind of fell in line with everything that was
already to be to. To to happen. Right. I mean
in the beginning everyone. It was the vaccine wasn't

(47:54):
a. It wasn't people. It wasn't an argument. And then it became
like this, you know, this whole. Yeah. Thing later. I mean
that kind of foreshadow that. Yeah. Yeah. All
that that happened. I mean and. And what's unfortunate is
like, you know, when you reminded me of the fires in Australia,
that was something that was like. It almost became.

(48:17):
It got pushed down at least here in America because of all the other things,
you know, the police brutality and the, you know, you know,
the vaccines and covet and people not being able to work and it just
like all these things just kind of just all happened at one time and it
got. That's right. Yeah, yeah. And her.
Not to get too into the album, but yeah, she had the gun in other

(48:38):
hand, cash on the other hand. Yeah, like. Like there was food
also. Like how we look, you know, how we. How we producing food and how
we're looking at the food. Food was like, yeah, but like, it's not trying to
be prophetic because that's really what's happening on the planet. It's just
what that time did when it all came to a head is all of it
just like, came up at once and we're just like overwhelmed.

(48:59):
Right. It all just kind of happened. And you just had this album covered in
this album that was covering all these things that was like, whoa, yeah.
Yes. So, you know, when. When sort of proposed.
When it was sort of proposed to us or even thought about should we delay
the album? It was like, no, it's just meant to come out. Like, the timing
of it. It's. It's of the time. Like, let's not wait two years

(49:21):
so that we can. We didn't know how long it was going to last, but
let's not wait so that we can throw off and surprise the world. It felt
almost like we do be doing the art a disservice to sit on it,
you know, like, that could have played out differently. I was thinking about what would
happen if we sat on it and just, like, released it right when touring came
back, you know, like. Yeah, I think the effect that

(49:42):
had and like the meaning and everything kind of really was there,
you know, it was perfect time. Yeah. That put it out instead of waiting. Because
a lot of artists did that. They're like, oh, you know, I recorded this album
in 2019, but I didn't put it out until 20, late 21 or
22, because what was I gonna do with it? No one, you know.
Yeah, you can't capitalize. Yeah, yeah. And I spent. You spent all this time and

(50:06):
money on it. And so there was a bit of, like, that hurt in to
a degree. It's like we put all this energy into something that just, you know,
was. Was a thing for a week and then there's a
shooting or like, you know, all these other fallen things that just
demand your attention and everything was just getting swallowed, like, so
quickly in like, the. The belly of society. It's like.

(50:27):
And then like, who's getting canceled? And then like, we need to address
this absolute, you know, horrific villain
that's been doing all these things behind enclosed doors. And it was just
relentless. Yeah. A period to
sort of endure and quite fascinating from a case study, but to be in it
was another story. And in that space we

(50:49):
got to like, look at our self reflection. And that's where this
documentary that, that we did and create a soundtrack for it,
which came out in 2022. So we had two years to work on it. And
that was a pandemic project. Was that Green is the New
Black? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that was
like what was gonna. It was always about. Was always gonna be at the making

(51:12):
of that record. K. And how we did it in. In a sustainable
way. But it was, you know, it was originally intended to be like a five
minute explainer
just to just so people understood why we did what we were doing.
And then it was like, this is way more than five minutes
of what's happening here. And we've actually got a. There's actually a story here because

(51:33):
there's so much discovery. So we just went deeper and deeper and deeper, just capturing,
capturing, capturing. Next minute we've got a, you know, a 90 minute,
90 minute film. And like, we need music for it because
you can't just go and buy music and then you've got these copyright issues.
So Ben and Evan at guitar, so they're making music appropriate
to the parts and soundtrack and Docker, and we

(51:56):
just slipping it to a bunch of film festivals and it, it did really well.
And we've got a. What's it called? Like, you've got
the Grammys and in Australia with the arias and it got an aria
nomination for the soundtrack. And next minute were the arias for this soundtrack
that was like not even metal. It was just this, you know, atmospheric kind of
soundtrack. So it really opened up different

(52:18):
doors. Not so much for the metal scene, because we'd already been a part of
that, but also all the mainstream folk artists and
stuff are calling me up saying like, you know, how do we. Like,
what merchandise? How are you switching, like getting rid of polyester and.
And cotton and you know, like, what are you doing? And I'm like, okay, well,
I don't know, man. But like, this is just what I've learned. Yeah,

(52:39):
yeah. Back to the thing where you're just. Yeah, yeah, you're. You're
doing something. You have this platform. People are paying attention now and you're. Like,
yeah, this could be just kind of how we do it. Yeah.
I love it, man. And then you even had your. Your.
Your bonus stat on that record as well. That must have been cool to have,
you know. Didn't he sing on one of the songs? Yes, yes.

(53:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that like, you know, asking him,
hey. Or. I mean, and I didn't even really ask you about the fact
that, you know, he. He had accomplished all these things
as an artist and a vocalist. I mean, he must have been
pretty proud. And did he provide you any, like, insight or, like,
mentorship when it came to your band already? Kind of.

(53:24):
Just not really. Okay. Yeah, not really.
He's. He's so chill and, like, he was proud. He's
proud in that sense, but, like, it doesn't tell me. It never tells. Told me
how to do anything. Of course, if I asked him to do something, he would
tell me, but he was never the business sense of the band or. Or how
to do T shirts this way. He was just like, here's the mic. I'm gonna

(53:44):
say what I say and feel what I feel. And someone else handled that in
the band. So. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't have any specific memory or time other than telling
me, like, don't hurt yourself when you scream and, like, you know, ease into
it and those sorts of tips. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then ask
you. He must have been pretty touched if you. When you asked him to sing

(54:05):
on Iron Days. Yeah. We had no
studio to go to at the time to record it in my bedroom. And there's
actually footage in the documentary of Randy, like, screaming
in the bedroom and filming on the bed. And, like, my guitar is sitting on
my desk and recording it, and it does a great
transition into, like, him tracking to, like, the song and the part.

(54:27):
And he's got a really good voice. Like,
I would love, like, hearing his voice in modern
sounding, like stuff. It sounds like, you know, it's high
pitch. It's almost like knock loose to all them warriors from California.
Yeah, that, like, it's intense. That's really good. It's really
good. So I love his voice. You should do a side project with

(54:49):
them. That'd be sick. Totally. Just
pacing the stage to situ screaming. He's gone.
Yeah, well, so you. I mean, with that last
album, you kind of wrapped up. You said the elements, you know, with Fire. And
then was that like going into this next album and was.
Did you, like, what was it at that point?

(55:10):
Were you. Did. You know, it was time to kind of Revisit those other 11
cards? Yeah, I felt like, it's something I want to do
before the band, you know, calls it a day. If we do at some point,
last getting on. I don't know how many records you don't know, especially the
Pandemic and, you know, touring being sort of like, is it on?

(55:31):
Is it off? So with this opportunity to make another record was
very much like, guys, it's time to revisit this and.
And feel complete about it.
So. So that's. Yeah, it came from a really. Yeah, like,
this is right. Like, I want to do this and.
And, you know, it just was. There was conversation around, like, let's not

(55:54):
force it and then like, stitch ourselves up when we could be doing some brand
new. Which is always like a fear of
doing a throwback with it appearing old. But
it just really suited the music and the story that needed to be told
with the band taking this, like, I call it. And it's not
a new. It's an evolved step forward in a big way. We've had a

(56:18):
member, a critical member of the last four
records is going on to be a father. And in
that process, we were naturally going to become heavier because he
was doing the clean singing. And so we already. We already decided we're
doubling down on the heavy and doing, like, you know, what we do really
well. But, like, how can we do it even better? And so this

(56:40):
underworld deep dive, when you've got cards like the devil,
it just felt so appropriate to really, like, go there and have it be the
flip side of the coin. It's no longer this joyful, joyful
light, you know, the world's great big Grand Place
at 21, which is very much like of the daylight. This is total

(57:01):
midnight, you know? Yeah.
Bewitching our record. Yeah. So did he record
or you're. You're talking about Kyle, right? He left the. He left
Farewell. And did he record on the album with you all
or had he left before the album?
Yeah, he. He totally. Well, he'd left. He's always been.

(57:24):
He's still been a part of all the conversations and there. But he
had said, like, he had made it known. We had.
We had a camp out that we like to, like,
check in. We had a camp out and we're sitting around the fire and it
was like, you know, he just shared like, this is where I'm at. And it
wasn't like, hey, guys, I'm out. It was just, this is how I'm feeling. And

(57:45):
we're like, we're supportive of what you need to do. And so he
wasn't fully sure, like, this is happening, but he expressed. He's like,
what was coming up. And so for the course of the year, we're, like, taking
steps towards giving him what he needed without it being, like, this cut and dry
thing. So we were writing a new record that was without him
and also, like, creating a song together that would be his last song,

(58:08):
which is not on the record. It's his own thing. So, yeah,
it's like a breakup process with a prolonged, like, you know, year or
so to. To feel it out, to make sure it was right for him. Because
if he'd been like. Actually went back in, we would have been like, all
right. Like, yeah. It wouldn't have been aggressive. Like, yeah, yeah.
Like, oh, well, you said you were leaving, so, you know, this

(58:30):
guy's been with you for so long. And it wasn't like he's. Yeah. Personality thing
or a huge fighter. It was just, you know, I'm. Yeah. You
know, this is where my heart's at right now. And I got to. Yeah.
So. But once we got to the studio and leading up to, you know, weeks,
months before, at that point, we've got this many heavy songs. Like,
we were committed to this being a

(58:53):
reality, you know? And did, you know, like,
were the songs. Did you write the songs prior
to, you know, putting them to a
card? Or was it like, okay, we know we're going to go in with 11
remaining tarot cards and Devil. We're gonna write
a song for this? Or it's a bit of both. Okay. A bit

(59:16):
of both. Probably lent towards knowing which cards are with which songs. Already
there was a few ominous ones. Where is this song gonna
make the record musically?
And then before really diving into again, this song needs vocals to actually
take it to, like, this level here. If we're communicating this song,
this is the card that remains. So how can we

(59:39):
be, like, integral to the essence of that
card and bring the lyrics and the vocals to get it to that place?
So there's a bit of puzzling out, especially in the last quarter,
But I'd say three quarters of it, if not 70%, at least
super solid. Like Orphan, the Devil, like, that was. You know, you've got.
You've got key markers, which we knew would be on the

(01:00:02):
record. Yeah, I love it. And I think it's
so cool that you have implemented, like, the Tarot Cards into
your, you know, your band and kind of like, what your mom
picked up doing. And, like, I think it's so cool that, like, she
did. Did she get like was. She thought that was
cool that you've kind of done that, like, you know, picked up what's something that

(01:00:24):
she had. Have. Has a passion for and you know,
for sure. Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, I imagine any, any
parent we, you know, proud or encouraged
that parenting rubbed off in some way. And it's a,
it's a. It's a positive thing, I think, like tarot being a tool
to like to ask nothing more

(01:00:47):
questions but to seek clarity and to understand more of
the journeys that we're on, you know, in this human form.
We did a lot of consulting like with her like, like this
cards like this. So like can you just check over that? She'd consult
for both records, did heaps of consulting with that. So like it's not just

(01:01:08):
our interpretation, like it always. It would be double checked off with, you
know, we call it professional. The guy who's been doing this for
25 years. You know, you're right. Right.
Yeah, yeah. With. On your website, I'm just curious. You
have the tarot card collector, right? What, like, can you kind of explain that
a little bit? Yeah, sure. It's a website with 11

(01:01:29):
cards. Each week a new card gets unveiled
and you can choose to flip over the card and underneath it it's got
either a clue, a teaser, or a game which tells you more
about that particular song attached to that particular card.
And then once you collect, like, you know, once we get to full 11 weeks,

(01:01:51):
when the record comes out, which would be July
12, you will. You have to have
turned over and engage with all of the cards. There's actually going to be
something that you'll get. I'm not going to say. Right, right. So it's
so it's like that's the collecting heart of it. Yeah. It
was just this neat idea that me and Luke,

(01:02:14):
our actual ex manager, had. We still
worked together this entire time. He's like, he's these.
Consult, consult and consultant and a friend.
So we've been working on this record together and
yeah, we just had this idea of how can we make a website like a
tarot card spread that you know, you could

(01:02:36):
revisit at any point. Like some people might not even discover there's a website
until a week before the record's out. And they can still go back and like
turn all the cars over and be like, oh, cool. Okay. That makes, you know.
But there's lots of clues for those people that want to find more
about the record and how it was made. That's all baked into those cards.
So. Yeah. Incarnation.inheartwake.com so

(01:02:57):
it's basically the home for our album website. Yeah. Yeah. I love
that, man. I love how you guys do all those cool little.
You know, you. You have the, like, not Easter
eggs, but, like, you know, you kind of hide these little things within. Within
your artwork and. And to. To have not only great
music and a great album and everything that comes with it, but to.

(01:03:20):
To even take it to the next step with this whole other creative side
that is so unique. And not anyone
I've talked to is doing anything like that. I think that's so rad.
Cool. Thanks, man. That's nice to hear that. Yeah. I just. I
realized, you know, the music isn't just enough, but like,
to feeling full as an artist, there's so much more that.

(01:03:43):
That we want to do and share. Like, it's not. And it's not
for an outcome that we desire, but clearly, like, you know, we
want to unpack these things and find a way to. To communicate these things to
the people that care. And doing in a creative way makes the music that
much more enjoyable. You know, it's layered. It's
definitely a layered thing. And. And it's fun. It's ultimately a lot of fun.

(01:04:05):
Yeah. And you're doing a big tour,
what, September? And that's Kyle's last
tour with the band too. Exactly. Yeah. That'll probably be an
emotional tour, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. It's still not quite real. Like, it won't be real
tour on the stage and looking at him and like, this is the last time

(01:04:26):
you're gonna be happy, dude. You know that. I think. I think we're all kind
of. We're aware of it, that we're not actually like, feeling
what that's going to feel like yet because it's going to be really odd
and. And exciting, but also daunting, especially
for him more than us, because we have to keep getting up there. But for
him, it's his last time, so he went. He really wanted

(01:04:47):
that. So it's good. Good. Last chance.
Did you guys choose the last date for a particular reason or
just kind of happened that way? It happened that
way. Yeah. When it's the last date. You mean with the last show Lies? Is
that what you're saying? Yeah. Or. Well, I mean, last show.
It's a show. It's the show in Perth. Right. That's the last shower. I

(01:05:09):
didn't know if it was like something special to him or if you couldn't figure
out to do it that. Way it would have. Would have been more ideal for
it to end in Brisbane, closer to home. Okay. You know,
ideally. But it's just how the weekend. How what was available panned out.
Right, right, right. But maybe that would also be too loaded too to have
it all be in the home. Then maybe it's good that we just can have

(01:05:30):
it be, you know, away. And then celebrate
all together and you know. All right, well, see at home.
You know what I mean? Exactly. Exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. We've got. And I think it gets announced tomorrow,
which will be now for whenever this gets released. Yeah,
it'll be out but it's got. The tour's got pale face

(01:05:53):
with King810 and a band called Gravemind on the.
On the lineup. So it's real. It's very heavy lineup of the
tour which is appropriate to the record. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Very very. Which is. I think people aren't going to be used
to. Going to take a bit of adjusting because they're used to like, you
know, previous bands, Bear Tooth, We Came As Romans, like

(01:06:16):
just more. Let's call it Metal Core, you know, which is great,
that singing chorus, you know, but this is not that. This is
actually been to like Death Core hardcore world now. Yeah.
There's not those. Yeah more melodic choruses. It's going to just be a lot
heavier. At least. At least for the time being is what's right. So we're following

(01:06:36):
that. Love it. Well, I appreciate your time, Jake. Thank you, man,
so much for. For doing this. You have such a fascinating story and
the creativity with the band and everything else you guys are doing. Thanks.
So awesome. I do have one more question for
you. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring
artists. Just make sure it's coming from the like if it's

(01:07:00):
coming from a good. A good place and it gets. It can get you
up a bit out of bed at five in the morning for it then
like keep pursuing that. I believe those are the.
The right reasons for continue to show up. And if you continue
to keep showing up with that in mind, it gets me out of bed
and it's coming from a really real place and there's something to be said

(01:07:22):
then it'll just. It'll carve through that.
That. That canyon or that wall that seems impossible with all that's out
there and it'll make a difference on the other side.
It'll find a way. I really believe that.

(01:07:55):
Back. Bring it back.