On this episode of Bringin’ It Backwards, Adam sits down with Joshua Aubrey Jackson, the creative force behind the indie project Make Sure. Broadcasting from his hometown of Opelika, Alabama, Josh opens up about his journey from discovering music through his older siblings’ hand-picked mixes to teaching guitar to the next generation of musicians. He shares how his earliest experiments in home recording and high school band projects eventually led him to develop a more intentional, polished sound with Make Sure—a project that landed him a deal with Tooth & Nail Records.
Josh dives into the evolution of his songwriting, why he moved away from his first band name (Fiery Crash), and how he’s made authenticity, quality, and collaboration the core of every release. You’ll get the inside scoop on putting together his new album June, what it’s like working (hands-off!) with Tooth & Nail, and why 90s alt-rock production still inspires him today. It’s an honest, vulnerable look at embracing the creative process—imperfections and all—and staying true to your vision as an artist in an ever-changing industry.
Tap in for advice, stories, and some music-nerd moments—plus what to expect from make sure’s upcoming release party (and a glimpse into Josh’s personal life as he prepares for marriage!). Don’t miss this one—hit play and subscribe to Bringin’ It Backwards wherever you get your podcasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Bring it backwards.
Bring it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Why,
hello, it is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast where both
legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they
(00:33):
achieve stardom. On this episode, we hung out with Josh
of the project make sure over
Zoom Video. Josh was born and raised in Alabama and talks about
how he got into music. He told us about some of the earlier projects he
was in and then eventually starting his own solo project,
which was called Something before he changed
(00:56):
it into make sure. And he talks about that process and why it changed the
name. We hear about the prior releases to this new album,
how he was signed to Tooth and Nail Records and again, all about this
new album which is called June, and how it was the first time he
worked kind of directly with Tooth and Nail. The album prior
was complete and he signed with Tooth and Nail, so
(01:18):
this time he already had the label. And he talks about
putting this new album together. So check that out. It's called June and you
could check out the video version of the interview with Josh on our
Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing It Backwards. It would
be awesome if you subscribe to our channel on
YouTube, like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok
(01:40):
at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on
Spotify, Apple Music, Google podcasts, it would be amazing if you
follow us there as well and hook us up with a five star review.
We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It Backwards with
Make sure. Hey, how's it going, Josh? Hey, how
(02:03):
are you? I'm doing well. My name is Adam. It's nice to.
To meet you. Thanks for doing this. Nice to meet you, Adam.
Sweet. So this is a podcast about you and
your journey in music. We'll talk about the album you have coming out next.
Next week, I believe, right? Yes, on the 12th. Very
exciting, man. Sweet. So
(02:25):
you're originally from Alabama, Is that what I saw? Yeah, and I'm still here.
Opelika, Alabama, which is becoming more and more
popular. I think Waxahachie just had a song come out and she referenced it.
So. Okay. We're in Boston, Alabama. I'm. I just moved
to Nashville like three. Oh no way and a half years ago. So
yeah, all the way down to like Orange beach or whatever. But
(02:49):
I don't sweet area as much. Yeah. Yeah.
So Opelika is. Most people
would associate it with
Auburn University, which is where I went to college, since on my
alma mater, but because most people know about football,
so. Right. I was gonna say big, big football school there. And we've,
(03:11):
We've. We live and breathe and bleed football over here.
So is it Tides. Is that
somewhere else? Oh, Roll Tide is the. That's. That's the arch
nemesis of Auburn University. That's. So that's Tuscaloosa, which would
be the Alabama Crimson Tide. That's what I was thinking.
Yeah. Over here is Auburn University.
(03:32):
Oh, okay. So I'm totally messed that up. I'm sorry. No, it's.
You're. You're fine. I just knew Alabama and football.
That's most people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's amazing. So
what about music as far as. Do you come from a musical household
or. How did you get into. To music originally? Yeah, we.
(03:55):
There really wasn't many instruments going on at my house.
I think like, my sisters played in the marching band or something. But
no one really. No one was really like a
dedicated musician. But we always love to listen to records. And so
I've like, music was
something we all sort of shared an interest in, as in
(04:17):
like my, you know, my older siblings. I was. I'm the youngest of four
and so my older siblings would,
you know, we would all burn each other's CDs and stuff and they would,
you know, they would have stuff like the Cure or Oasis
and Radiohead, whatever. And so I just had all
these. My older siblings being like, this is the good stuff. You should listen
(04:41):
to this. And it stuck. And so,
man, once I got to be around like 12 or 13,
I got a guitar and just started
messing around with it and wanted to. It was more of a
thing where it's like, I just want to know how to play songs. I want
to know how to play the songs that I like to listen to. And so.
(05:03):
And then eventually that, that this kind of became my own thing.
So. Yeah, but nobody really had a. My parents weren't
musical. My dad's side of the family. It's funny, it's like
his. He has brothers and stuff that are like in bands and they
teach music. They're super devoted to it, but it like skipped my dad for some
reason, but then like made its way over to me. I don't know. But that's
(05:26):
cool though. But yeah, at least your. Your older
siblings like good bands, right? They could have been down trashed you.
Yeah, but I mean, Oasis and Radiohead and Cure and
they had good taste. They did. They sure Did.
Yeah. So I'm thankful for that too. So. Yeah, that's
cool. So you said 12, 13. You got a guitar and
(05:48):
what was that for? Like a birthday present or like, how did you get the
guitar? I. Well, I think so. I think my parents got. Got it for me
when I was 11 and I still have it around here somewhere, I think.
But it was like a. It was a Washburn lion,
basically like a Target guitar. And then you buy it for 100. Bucks and
strap bag all that together. Yeah, the pack. Right on.
(06:10):
Yeah. And I. I remember
I took guitar lessons and
the guy I was taking it from was a guy from church. And
I'm not knocking this, but just as an 11 year old, I didn't really care
about playing, you know, the 90s worship
hits. And that was pretty much all he was trying to teach me. So
(06:32):
that, that's why I made a point to say later on when it was like,
it was like my idea for being like, yeah, but I want to know how
to play 1979 by the smashing Pumpkins. And so I'm gonna look it up
on Ultimate Guitar and figure that out and. Okay.
Yeah. Because usually with the teacher, they're either going to teach you what you want
to learn or scales or. Yeah. You know, which is funny now because that's
what I. That's what I do for a living now as I teach music. So
(06:55):
I always like, I'm like with the kids or whatever, especially with guitar,
I'm like, look, I don't want to. I don't want to like force you to
learn this or that song. Like, you need to tell me what you want to
learn so that you can have fun. And that way we actually both have fun.
Because I'm watching their eyes light up because they figured out how to play their
favorite song and stuff like that. So that's amazing. Yeah, that's the way to
(07:17):
teach it. I was always thinking that, like with piano too, you hear about people
going to piano lessons and it's just like such a drag like that, you know,
sit up, then play the whatever. Yeah. Instead of like,
I want to learn how to play whatever piano man like Billy
Oller, you know, whatever it may be like, I want to learn something cool. I
don't want to learn this song that I never heard or could
(07:39):
care less about. All right. I figured like, that would be such a money maker
to be like, all right, come in and I'll teach you any pop song or
whatever you wanted to learn. So that's a cool way to do it. Yeah, it's
a lot more fun that way. Yeah, I'm sure you get to learn some cool
songs too that way that you. Maybe I do. It keeps me sharp. Keeps me
sharp, man. There's especially the most fun is when you got these like metal
(08:00):
head kids that will come in, they want to learn these insane like dream
theater songs. And I'm just like, oh man, this is beyond
what I'm really able to do. But I, I, I admire, you
know, I admire that he's, that they're wanting to try that out. So yeah, I
was gonna say if it's a new. A beginner and they hand you a dream
theater like riff. You're just like, this might be
(08:21):
two months of lessons just to get the beginning of this piece down. But
yeah. Hey, shoot, shoot high. Shoot for the skies. Right on.
So you started to do that. I mean eventually learning how to play other people's
songs. And when do you start writing your own songs? That would have been,
gosh, probably like 14 or 15.
(08:42):
So I started out with a, with a friend of mine
named Thomas. And we've. And most of the time we were hanging out in high
school making just goofy YouTube videos and stuff. But he also had
garage band on his computer. So we, I was like, well
maybe we can try and make some like really epic
(09:03):
like instrumental music. We were really into
Godspeed you, Black Emperor. And so they're this like post
rock band, just really epic songs and stuff and
that are like 30 minutes each. And
so we as you know, 15 year olds were like, we can do that. And
so there, there are records out there that probably you can
(09:26):
find them on band camp or something. But in there
are sort of experiments when we were in high school trying to come up with
these really epic
ambient, an instrumental, whatever. But
there was also like a bunch of weird stuff. Like we would. We sample. I
remember we sampled like a five minute like speech by like Ron
(09:47):
Paul or something like that and put it in a. And put a song. We're
like, this is. We're saying something. I don't know what we're saying. We're saying something.
And anyway I remember like we burned CDs we're like handing out to our friends
and. But I.
So then, but after like a year or two of doing the really weird stuff,
(10:07):
I was like, which was fun and I'm glad that we did that.
I remember thinking like, like I want to do, I want to do
music that's not just soaked in reverb
and a bunch of weird Effects and things I want to try and make like
a folk record. And so I started a project
named after an Andrew Bird song called Fiery
(10:30):
Crash. And that was my project for a few years.
And I think the best, honestly the best record I think that came out of
that project was, is called Practice Shots. And I'm still, I'm maybe
11 or 12 years removed from that one. And I'm still pretty proud of that
project. There's some things I would change because I was like 17 when I made
it, but. But I'm still pretty proud of that one
(10:52):
and. But just you on those
things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was kind of a solo thing. I just made
it in my bedroom at my parents house and.
And then eventually I, I
kind of got tired of that name Fiery Crash because it was just.
If you googled it, you would. You had to kind of dig to find my
(11:14):
band camp and. Yeah, but before that, horrible news,
horrible news. Articles about people dying and car crashes
and stuff. So like page 5 of Google search like, yeah,
oh, there he is. Yeah, so.
And it just sucked telling like, like, you know, there'd be like
older people at church or whatever. They'd be like, so I hear you make music.
(11:37):
How do I find that? And I'd be like, well, just Google Fiery Crash.
And, and it was just such an awkward conversation. So,
and so eventually I was like, okay, let me think of something. So I
eventually settled on this name called Make Sure.
And that one just felt like it's kind of short, sweet, zippy.
(11:58):
And it could be a lot of things, I think so,
you know, and, and as with most band names, it's just like, why'd you pick
it? Well, it wasn't taken, so I guess I just kind of go with that.
But. Right. So there's not really like a deeper meaning behind it.
Maybe, maybe someday they're all think of one. But just make
sure you check us out. Yeah. Hey, there you go. Yeah, a lot of people
(12:19):
mishear me. They'll go mixture. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Make, make sure.
And. But so that's the name of Worth now.
And that's the project that got signed with Tooth and Nail. So
I always tell people that because I get the record deal. I said, well,
it's just kind of like anything with,
you know, or how'd you get the girlfriend? How'd you get the. Whatever, you know,
(12:41):
I'm like, well, it's just like shooting free throws in basketball. You just, just keep
going, man. But the, the point of
that is that you just kept trying, you know. Right.
So you miss 100, 100% of the shots you don't take. Was it like. That's
correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Fear of striking out keep you from playing the game. There you go. Yeah. I
(13:03):
was going to ask you how you got the. The deal. So you started make
sure. And was it similar to Fiery Crash or
did you trying to change the sound up entirely? Yeah, yeah, I think make sure
it's maybe a little more emo. Okay. Well.
And as in like people would say was I like American Football
or Death Cab for Cutie kind of that sort of stuff.
(13:26):
I get that comparison the most People say I sound
like Ben Gibbard, which I take it as a compliment because. That was
a legend. Yeah, he's a legend. And with American Football
that's a cool reference. Not that band doesn't get the respect they deserve,
I don't think. Unless it's more in the indie scene. Dude, I've seen them live.
We got to. We played audio feed last year and
(13:50):
that's up in Urbana I think which is really
close to champagne. So we, we made the. The pilgrimage to the American
Football house. That's on the. The album, their first album cover.
And no way. They were so cool. I mean it's just a. It's just a
dumpy old house at this point. But it's. It's really cool because I mean it's
just like a college. Just like you would find in any town is kind of
(14:11):
a. Just an old college dorm looking house. But.
But it's. You know, it was so cool though. And they have in the. In
the window they have like a little flag that has the. The.
The first album cover on it. Do they still to this day.
Wow. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it
was cool to see. And yeah, they put an album out a few years ago
(14:34):
which was like pretty rad. I was like. I felt like I didn't you know,
hear from them in a long time and I'm like, wait, what? American Football have
a new album. They're still doing stuff. I. We could go on a tangent about
that. I really like Owen, his Mike Cancella solo project
and I think the reason that the. The so so
called comeback records I guess of the American Football because they didn't,
(14:57):
they didn't put out a record for long time and maybe.
Yeah. And then they put that album out. Yeah. Not that long ago. To me
it was just. It's still good because it was like
Mike Kinsella was still doing music for for
all those years, he didn't. I think with a lot of times those bands that
will come back 20 years later and it's kind of like, what is this? It's
(15:18):
not the same thing. But it was because he. He was consistent with his stuff.
And then it was like, well, this is not a big deal for me to
just make another American football record. So I think that they.
The fact that he was still in the game, you know, all those years later
really helped out. And I think they're. They're great records, so. And
you said, aren't you playing this year's
(15:39):
audio? Yeah, yeah, we'll be there. Awesome. Yep.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun last year and I. I'm looking forward to
doing it again. Nice. Well, so,
yeah. When do you decide to change the name to. To make sure. Was it
a few years later? Were you in college at this point and did you go
to college for music? I went to college for
(16:01):
media studies, like communications and stuff, but neither here nor
there. The. Yeah, it was in. It was in college, I think.
So I. I had this vision to make a record called Walk Home
instead. And that was the first. That's the first make sure album. And the.
I spent four or five years like demoing and
(16:22):
doing stuff for that and
it. Yeah, but that, that was during
college. I decided to go with the name and
put out that first record. Well, we put out an EP
and that's called Town Runner and that one has more of that, like I said,
sort of the emo indie rock flavor. There's kind
(16:45):
of some mathy stuff going on and
I guess. Yeah, I mean you would hope this with every project, but I
make sure to me is like the most finely tuned. Like
I'm gonna be the most perfectionistic I can be. And it needs to sound
as like high quality as it can. Whereas a lot of the other stuff I
(17:05):
did was kind of home recorded. Not as.
Not as sharp sounding, but so anyway.
But yeah, I just wanted it to have the pretty. Pretty high quality stuff and.
And that. That was. That's been the goal and still. Still is
the goal with. With Make Sure. So was that first.
Was that first CP recorded then.
(17:29):
You. Did it like in a studio and everything wasn't like. Yeah, yeah.
And the same guys I still work with today.
Clubman Studios, it's in Blairsville,
which is not. Not too far from Nashville, I guess, but a couple hours maybe,
but up near where the Blue Ridge Mountains are.
If you've ever been in that. That area, it's beautiful. Up there. And I have
(17:50):
a buddy named Jimmy Smith. And it's
half of this, it's half of his. His house, and the other half is the
studio. And that's like one of my
all time favorite places to go because you just. And the. In the. In
these beautiful mountain ranges and you're making records
and that's just. It's so much fun. I can get. I can get lost.
(18:12):
Lost in the weeds there. For sure. That's awesome. For sure.
So then you. Yeah, you did your. Was Walk Home instead. Your first, like, full
album. As make sure. Yeah, yeah, as make sure.
And then that one you put out what, on your own before you got signed
to. To the now? Yeah, yeah, that was an independent release.
And then the next one was called
(18:34):
Ninjutsu. That's where you
and that did. You did that whole process of getting signed to them
and then working on that album, releasing it, because that came out in
2021. Were you like, in the middle of the pandemic? Was that kind of an
album that you've written during that time? And is that when you linked up with
Tooth and Nail? Yeah, so it was.
(18:57):
I think. Well, pretty much the album was done.
It was. We. I did it all through the pandemic. We were working
remote, so I just had a whole bunch of time on my hands and
yeah, just recorded it, finished it, got it
mastered. And
(19:19):
then I. The. The girl that sang a bunch of
harmonies on that, her name's Marina. And she. By the time we
finished it, she'd heard it. She's like, oh, you. Are you going to send
this around? And I was like, well, I just figured I'd do what I usually
do and just kind of throw it on the Internet. And there you go.
She's like, oh, you're. I think she. I think she was like, you're stupid if
(19:41):
you don't, like, send this around to somebody. She's like. And
also kind of like, we put a lot of work into this. So, yeah, she's
like, let's just not on Spotify or Fan Camp and
call it a day. So. So then I. Yeah. And
again with the free throw thing, I was like, okay, I'm just going to come
up with like as many record labels as I can think of that
(20:02):
might take this. And
yeah, so anyway, and I just was emailing people. I have a buddy that
works for Secretly Canadian, the. That record
label. And so I, I reached out to him. I was like, all right, if
I'm actually going to send this around, what would I Do. And
(20:22):
so he kind of gave me some pointers and stuff and. Yeah.
And so I. But eventually Tooth and Nail, they
just. I got like a text one day or something and I thought it was
one of my friends messing with me because I was like, this is.
That's crazy. You know, there's a lot of bands and records I love
from. From that. That label.
(20:45):
Yeah, they have some huge, huge artist. I mean, there.
So. So I feel. I was. I still kind of, you know, pinch
myself. I'm like, this. This doesn't feel real sometimes. It's. But it's.
It's awesome. I'm. I'm so happy it happened.
So. Yeah, they. But it. But the record was already finished, so I just like
sent it to them and it was basically just put it out. Yeah, I
(21:07):
was like, do you like it? Check yes or no. And they. They checked yes,
thankfully. And. And yeah.
And I. And then we just sort of coordinated with releasing it and stuff
and. Awesome. Who. Who are you talking with? My neighbor is an
ANR for Tooth and Nail. No way. Wait, who are they? His
(21:27):
name's Brian Ortiz. Is that who assigned
you? No way. Yeah. That's awesome. That's so
cool. I gotta tell him that I chatted with you. He signed a couple other
people I've spoke to going to the nail because I worked through Adam
Splitter, but they do a lot of the PR for. For
them. So. Yeah, I know He. He does that in
(21:51):
the. The More. The full Christian side. What is it called,
CBE or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
So that texted you and said, hey, yeah, let's do this. Yeah. He's
like, hey, Brian from Tooth and Nail, can we. Can we talk? And I was
like, yes, yes, we can.
Yeah. He lives right down the road from me, and my son and his son
(22:13):
are like, like best friends. Oh, that's awesome. So good.
That's crazy. Cool, man. So then, yeah, so he gets you signed up, you. You
guys put that record out and. And you're. And you just put
out another. Or you're about to put out. That's right. Yeah. So
tell me about this. This album. And since this would be the first time you
technically were working with them
(22:35):
as far as putting the album together, because before it was like, this is done.
Do you want it? Right, Correct. Yeah. So this time around, it's.
Let's work on an album. And yeah. Was that different?
I mean, they basically were just like, we'll give you what you need for
studio time. But I think one of the things I,
I admire about the label is they don't, they're
(22:57):
not, you know, they're not whipping me with,
you know, mandates to say it's got to sound like this and you
got to do this thing. And there has to be trap rap,
hi hats in there somewhere. You know, they don't say any of that stuff. So
I just kind of told. I remember I actually, I had a phone call with
Brian maybe a year or two ago, and it was like, this is my vision
(23:19):
for the record. And he goes, like, sounds great. Let's do it.
You know, it's just like. Like what? You know, he. No second thoughts for him.
He was just like, okay, cool. Sounds good. And,
but with that, I mean, I think there's just a lot of
trust. Like, they, they're as in, they're kind of like, hey,
look, kid, I think you're, you're probably perfectionistic enough anyway,
(23:42):
so we'll just let you do your thing.
Do what you want. That's cool. Yeah, but they,
and I think that they have, like, if I needed a mastering engineer or anything,
they would, they would provide that. I, I, I like to
use Dave Wilton out in Colorado. He does, he's a friend of
mine and he does really great work, and so he's mastered the last two records.
(24:05):
But with stuff like that, I think with anything, they, they would be happy to
provide stuff if I needed it, but a lot of times it's, there's. I have
enough local connections anyway that I'm able to put stuff
together. So they're a little more hands off when it comes to those things. Yeah,
they're, they're just, they're like, whatever, you know, you turn it in now. If I
turn in, I, I feel like if I turn in, like a polka record or
(24:25):
something, they'd be a little thrown off, you know, not that I would ever. Probably.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, this doesn't sound. Let's reconsider what
we're doing here. Yeah, yeah. So. But, you know,
this. I, I think everybody's been happy with, with
what I turned in, so. That's awesome, man. So
tell me about the album then. Going to the album was the concept.
(24:48):
Yes. So the album's called June, and I wanted to
make something that effectively is just, just a really immediate
album, that it would be
like the kind of thing you'd want to put on in the car and just
go for a drive and. Because that's how I've been listening to music a lot
in the last couple of years is, you know, what what music, what songs do
(25:10):
I really like to just put on in the car? And it. And I just
take a ride around town and, and just soak it in and
enjoy it. But also things that study,
things that I want to like, play over and over again.
So whether that's the Goo Goo Dolls or
Oasis or, you know, you name it. But,
(25:34):
but I think that there's like, there are elements to be studied about that.
So there's. I studied a lot
of like what makes up the skeleton of these songs that
I have enjoyed since childhood. And as a
28 year old I'm still like listening to them over and over again.
(25:55):
And so, yeah, I just did a whole lot
of looking into it and, and trying to
implement some of those strategies into my own writing with the songs I was making
for the record and,
and just basically I just make a really polished kind of alternative pop
rock record. I think I was thinking, I was
(26:17):
like, I want it. I want it to sound like it's this lost record from
1998 or something that it. And it. And it has
resurfaced. It's like, oh, this was going to come out back then, but. But here
it is now. You know, I don't know if it actually sounds like
that, but I think it does. I was going to say it has that like,
kind of tones to it. Yeah. And I got the first.
(26:39):
I think it's. Maybe it's the first song album, the piano ballad that kind of
starts it and like just the guitars and like the other
sounds in there kind of remind me of. Yeah, that
90s alternative kind of style. Well, good.
I'm so glad you said that. That's reassuring.
So we, My gosh, I mean, we reference so much stuff
(26:59):
of just. I mean, my favorite era is going to be the 90s also. I
love the 80s and 70s and 2000s and all that stuff. But
in particular, I mean, there's like, there's just,
you know, I don't know how nerdy we want to get, but there's, there's. There's
like a way that like drums are mixed now like in 2024
(27:20):
that I hate. I don't like it because it's, it's like everything's like
so. And this is my opinion, you know, so people,
if they want, but like, it's like I'm not going to mix my record where
the drums are just like slapping you in the face as hard
as possible and they almost just sound like fake. There's this
artifice to it that I don't like, but then you go back and listen to,
(27:41):
like, the first Audio Slave record and it's. The drums
are kicking your butt, but they're not overbearing.
Yeah. It's even like the, you know, the earlier. The Nirvana album. Oh, yeah,
yeah. There's like the, there's kind of some, like,
for all of those 90s bands, really. There's, there's, like. It doesn't sound
(28:01):
perfect. Like, the tones aren't perfect. Yeah. Which I think is
cool. Yeah, yeah. There's. The newer drums are
really, like. Because the EQ
is perfect and everything can be like, like, you know, warped into this
really perfect sound. Like the kick's gonna sound the same every single
time. Or the, you know, like, I think there's something cool about having
(28:24):
a little grit to, to those elements. Yeah. And, and
it's not even that, like, I'm against using samples and stuff like that because that's
on the record. I mean, there's, there's places where we use that. I, I, in
fact, I love using a kick sample because I think that that helps a lot
as well. What people don't know, maybe, is if you go back and
listen to these records mixed by Andy Wallace and Butch
(28:45):
Vig and stuff like that. It's funny now because with AI you can
like, there's, there's all these videos now. You can find
the isolated drums from Smells Like Teen Spirit or whatever,
and you listen to this stuff and you're like, shoot, they were using a kick
sample like that. A lot of these things are. They're more robotic than we
thought. But at the same time, I'm like, as long as it
(29:08):
was a real performance at one time. Right. I don't care.
Yeah. It's like if, but if I need to take a kick sample to
replace my flubby sounding kick drum that I recorded that we just
didn't get the tone right. But if I can fix that in
post, but still maintain the, like, humanity of the performance,
I'm going to do that. So I think what,
(29:30):
what, what gets on my nerves is like, we joked
a lot about, while we were mixing this album because
Smashing Pumpkins was releasing their album Autumn, which is the most,
like, most recent thing that they've done, and it is the most
quantized, just compressed to high heaven,
just, Just not, not. They lost the plot, you know, it's
(29:52):
just not the same. They lost quite a while ago. Yeah, they did.
But, hey, if I met Billy Corgan today, I'd give him a high five and
be like, dude, oh yeah. It's like one of the thank you so much. Writers
of all time. But yeah, but it's either way quite a bit.
Yeah, so. But yeah, listening to like,
their, their records from the 90s and stuff, you're just like, this
(30:14):
is some of the best mixed music I've ever heard in my life.
And, and I, I now. So that to me is like the standard of,
you know, their, their records from like 91 to 2000. I'm
like, that's. That, that's the gold standard for me. It's what I want my
albums to sound like. And so.
But yeah, there's, there's just so many like, tricks and stuff. Like, I'm not, I'm
(30:37):
not opposed to quantizing. I'm not opposed to using,
using technology to, to fix mistakes and stuff like that.
I'm not even. I'm really not opposed to Auto Tune either. But all the stuff
is just like, am I using these tricks
to make it lifeless and, and sound
like a robot made it, or am I doing it to just,
(31:01):
you know, sand down the rough edges and, and polish it where it needs to
be polished, but, but still have an intention to maintain
the humanity of it all at the end of the day?
Because there's some places where you need to leave the mistakes in. Because the mistakes,
like you said, can be really cool and make it feel, make it feel human.
Right, Right, right. No, I, I love it. It's. It's funny you brought up
(31:23):
Auto. Have you heard like, TI sing normally?
Yeah. It's insane how good he is. It's like, why do you make your voice
robotic all the time? Yeah, well, I think people, a lot of people don't realize
there's a way to sing into. Like, if
I think nowadays I sing, I'm like, I, I'm consciously aware that
(31:43):
there's gonna be put on this at the, at the back
end. Right Enough to. Where it's like, like, to me, I see Auto
Tune as like if you go bowling
and you have those little, like, safeguards up. Yeah, that's
really all it's supposed to be bumpers. You know, it's like, okay, I was trying
to hit that E at one point, but I fell a little shy of where
(32:05):
I was supposed to go. But the, with the computer program, you can just. It
just kind of nudges it in and fixes that.
But if it's a thing where it's like, dude, you just can't sing, you have
no idea what you're doing, then it becomes glaringly obvious. That auto tune was
used because it's like over
correcting and it's. Yeah, it sounds way robotic. Once you're. If you're totally
(32:27):
off. If you're just saying something and had no clue what you're doing
you. When it fixes it it just doesn't sound right. You're like yeah.
And one, one thing do two. I used Melodyne
to. Not on my voice but on. Because there's a lot of pedal
steel in this record and pedal still.
I'm like unless you are the most.
(32:50):
I'm not saying this guy, the guy who. The session musician did an amazing
job but pedal still is one of those things that it's. It can be a
cent or two off and to my ears which are pretty sensitive. I'm like
there's that needs to be fixed, you know. So I got,
I got Melodyne where you can do like polyphonic
tuning where there's. You can. You can scan in like
(33:12):
all of the notes that occurred and whatever instrumental performance
and you can like go in and like correct,
you know, whatever notes. Need to be corrected. But as I was doing
that and I'm like hearing back the
corrected version of the, you know, the performance and stuff and
then, and then you kind of realize like everybody be doing this.
(33:34):
Like everybody's doing this. All of the,
you know. And now I'll listen to like you know, million dollar
albums by this or that popular artist and I'm.
And I'm like shoot, they're doing it. They're using Melodyne to
you know. And so it's like if the pros are doing it then
it's almost kind of silly to not. Not utilize the tools
(33:57):
that, that they're using.
But again if it's like, if it's just like a crappy performance altogether which this
was not. That's like I said the and. And the.
Because I think that there's. You can hear something getting overcorrected
where it was like it was just really poor to begin with and we had
to salvage it. But that was never the case I don't think with
(34:20):
any of the. The performances with this record.
Jimmy Smith and, and Michael Minkoff, the guys I worked with,
their philosophy is like we need to get it as good
as we can going into the box so that we don't have
to like you know, really 10 spend too much time
polishing and overcorrecting on the back end and the
(34:43):
post production stuff. So it's kind of this philosophy is like needs to be as
good as possible when we record it
so we're not having to play doctor at the. @ the end there. Right.
And I think that this record really shows that. I mean, just
listening back to it, I'm really happy with a lot of the tones we got
(35:04):
and. Yeah. So I. I think I would confidently
say at this point in my career that this is the.
This is the most, like, polished and clean sounding album, but at the same time,
there's still these rough edges and stuff that are there
intentionally. But I think that this is probably the best.
Sonically, this is the best
(35:26):
sounding album that I've. I've done so far and I'm really proud of.
Proud of the work we did. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. The songs I've
heard thus far are, Are killer, man. Yeah. Thank you.
And then the album coming out in a week. Are you doing like a release
show or. I know you're doing obviously the, the. The one festival
again, but yeah, we're. We're gonna have
(35:49):
like a. A party here in town and
I. So one thing that's going on in my life right now
is at the end of this month, I'm getting married. Wow.
Congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. And so
Catherine, my soon to be wife, is throwing. She's
throwing a party for the album release. And so
(36:13):
I'll probably play a couple of songs or whatever, but I think it's mostly she
just. She's like, I don't want to stress you out, you know, like, we're just
gonna have. We might listen through the record or it might be on in the
background, but it's mostly just going to be kind of a. A
celebration with friends and everybody to kind of just
she. Because I mean, she's like. She's like, I know you better than anybody. I
(36:34):
know that you've nearly driven yourself insane trying to finish this
record. So we're gonna. We're gonna celebrate and, and
just throw a little, little party with some friends to, to commemorate
the occasion and all the hard work. Very, very cool.
Well, I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Josh, for doing this. Yeah,
man. Yeah. It was just fun talking to you. Yeah. I do have
(36:56):
one more question for you. I want to know if you have any advice for
aspiring artists.
I would say just keep,
keep working and keep, keep honing your craft. That might be kind of a
boring answer, but I think,
(37:18):
like, the best thing to be doing is to
like, challenge yourself on, on songwriting and stuff like that. Always
be thinking, what can I do better? And to. And to really, really
study the songs that inspire
you figure out. Don't. Don't be just saying I like this song
because it sounds great. You know, Figure out what is it
(37:40):
exactly about the songs that you enjoy? You know, I
like it that this. This one song, it goes to
a minor third at the bridge, and then I like the Corporation there. I think
that really speaks to me. Then borrow it and try it in your own
song, you know, and an experiment. So, yeah,
learn the tricks that the guys that you really enjoy. Learn their tricks and
(38:03):
then see if you can implement them in your own songs and experiment and
just see what you get on the other side.
You bring
(38:24):
it backward, bring it backward, bring
it backward? Bring it back, bring
it backward?
Bring it backwards.
Bring it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Bringing it backwards.
Bringing it backwards. Why,
hello, it is Adam. Welcome back to Bringing It Backwards, a podcast where both
legendary and rising artists tell their own personal stories of how they
(00:33):
achieve stardom. On this episode, we hung out with Josh
of the project make sure over
Zoom Video. Josh was born and raised in Alabama and talks about
how he got into music. He told us about some of the earlier projects he
was in and then eventually starting his own solo project,
which was called Something before he changed
(00:56):
it into make sure. And he talks about that process and why it changed the
name. We hear about the prior releases to this new album,
how he was signed to Tooth and Nail Records and again, all about this
new album which is called June, and how it was the first time he
worked kind of directly with Tooth and Nail. The album prior
was complete and he signed with Tooth and Nail, so
(01:18):
this time he already had the label. And he talks about
putting this new album together. So check that out. It's called June and you
could check out the video version of the interview with Josh on our
Facebook page and YouTube channel at bringing It Backwards. It would
be awesome if you subscribe to our channel on
YouTube, like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok
(01:40):
at bringing back pod. And if you're listening to this on
Spotify, Apple Music, Google podcasts, it would be amazing if you
follow us there as well and hook us up with a five star review.
We'd appreciate your support. If you follow and subscribe to our podcasts.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're bringing. It Backwards with
Make sure. Hey, how's it going, Josh? Hey, how
(02:03):
are you? I'm doing well. My name is Adam. It's nice to.
To meet you. Thanks for doing this. Nice to meet you, Adam.
Sweet. So this is a podcast about you and
your journey in music. We'll talk about the album you have coming out next.
Next week, I believe, right? Yes, on the 12th. Very
exciting, man. Sweet. So
(02:25):
you're originally from Alabama, Is that what I saw? Yeah, and I'm still here.
Opelika, Alabama, which is becoming more and more
popular. I think Waxahachie just had a song come out and she referenced it.
So. Okay. We're in Boston, Alabama. I'm. I just moved
to Nashville like three. Oh no way and a half years ago. So
yeah, all the way down to like Orange beach or whatever. But
(02:49):
I don't sweet area as much. Yeah. Yeah.
So Opelika is. Most people
would associate it with
Auburn University, which is where I went to college, since on my
alma mater, but because most people know about football,
so. Right. I was gonna say big, big football school there. And we've,
(03:11):
We've. We live and breathe and bleed football over here.
So is it Tides. Is that
somewhere else? Oh, Roll Tide is the. That's. That's the arch
nemesis of Auburn University. That's. So that's Tuscaloosa, which would
be the Alabama Crimson Tide. That's what I was thinking.
Yeah. Over here is Auburn University.
(03:32):
Oh, okay. So I'm totally messed that up. I'm sorry. No, it's.
You're. You're fine. I just knew Alabama and football.
That's most people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's amazing. So
what about music as far as. Do you come from a musical household
or. How did you get into. To music originally? Yeah, we.
(03:55):
There really wasn't many instruments going on at my house.
I think like, my sisters played in the marching band or something. But
no one really. No one was really like a
dedicated musician. But we always love to listen to records. And so
I've like, music was
something we all sort of shared an interest in, as in
(04:17):
like my, you know, my older siblings. I was. I'm the youngest of four
and so my older siblings would,
you know, we would all burn each other's CDs and stuff and they would,
you know, they would have stuff like the Cure or Oasis
and Radiohead, whatever. And so I just had all
these. My older siblings being like, this is the good stuff. You should listen
(04:41):
to this. And it stuck. And so,
man, once I got to be around like 12 or 13,
I got a guitar and just started
messing around with it and wanted to. It was more of a
thing where it's like, I just want to know how to play songs. I want
to know how to play the songs that I like to listen to. And so.
(05:03):
And then eventually that, that this kind of became my own thing.
So. Yeah, but nobody really had a. My parents weren't
musical. My dad's side of the family. It's funny, it's like
his. He has brothers and stuff that are like in bands and they
teach music. They're super devoted to it, but it like skipped my dad for some
reason, but then like made its way over to me. I don't know. But that's
(05:26):
cool though. But yeah, at least your. Your older
siblings like good bands, right? They could have been down trashed you.
Yeah, but I mean, Oasis and Radiohead and Cure and
they had good taste. They did. They sure Did.
Yeah. So I'm thankful for that too. So. Yeah, that's
cool. So you said 12, 13. You got a guitar and
(05:48):
what was that for? Like a birthday present or like, how did you get the
guitar? I. Well, I think so. I think my parents got. Got it for me
when I was 11 and I still have it around here somewhere, I think.
But it was like a. It was a Washburn lion,
basically like a Target guitar. And then you buy it for 100. Bucks and
strap bag all that together. Yeah, the pack. Right on.
(06:10):
Yeah. And I. I remember
I took guitar lessons and
the guy I was taking it from was a guy from church. And
I'm not knocking this, but just as an 11 year old, I didn't really care
about playing, you know, the 90s worship
hits. And that was pretty much all he was trying to teach me. So
(06:32):
that, that's why I made a point to say later on when it was like,
it was like my idea for being like, yeah, but I want to know how
to play 1979 by the smashing Pumpkins. And so I'm gonna look it up
on Ultimate Guitar and figure that out and. Okay.
Yeah. Because usually with the teacher, they're either going to teach you what you want
to learn or scales or. Yeah. You know, which is funny now because that's
what I. That's what I do for a living now as I teach music. So
(06:55):
I always like, I'm like with the kids or whatever, especially with guitar,
I'm like, look, I don't want to. I don't want to like force you to
learn this or that song. Like, you need to tell me what you want to
learn so that you can have fun. And that way we actually both have fun.
Because I'm watching their eyes light up because they figured out how to play their
favorite song and stuff like that. So that's amazing. Yeah, that's the way to
(07:17):
teach it. I was always thinking that, like with piano too, you hear about people
going to piano lessons and it's just like such a drag like that, you know,
sit up, then play the whatever. Yeah. Instead of like,
I want to learn how to play whatever piano man like Billy
Oller, you know, whatever it may be like, I want to learn something cool. I
don't want to learn this song that I never heard or could
(07:39):
care less about. All right. I figured like, that would be such a money maker
to be like, all right, come in and I'll teach you any pop song or
whatever you wanted to learn. So that's a cool way to do it. Yeah, it's
a lot more fun that way. Yeah, I'm sure you get to learn some cool
songs too that way that you. Maybe I do. It keeps me sharp. Keeps me
sharp, man. There's especially the most fun is when you got these like metal
(08:00):
head kids that will come in, they want to learn these insane like dream
theater songs. And I'm just like, oh man, this is beyond
what I'm really able to do. But I, I, I admire, you
know, I admire that he's, that they're wanting to try that out. So yeah, I
was gonna say if it's a new. A beginner and they hand you a dream
theater like riff. You're just like, this might be
(08:21):
two months of lessons just to get the beginning of this piece down. But
yeah. Hey, shoot, shoot high. Shoot for the skies. Right on.
So you started to do that. I mean eventually learning how to play other people's
songs. And when do you start writing your own songs? That would have been,
gosh, probably like 14 or 15.
(08:42):
So I started out with a, with a friend of mine
named Thomas. And we've. And most of the time we were hanging out in high
school making just goofy YouTube videos and stuff. But he also had
garage band on his computer. So we, I was like, well
maybe we can try and make some like really epic
(09:03):
like instrumental music. We were really into
Godspeed you, Black Emperor. And so they're this like post
rock band, just really epic songs and stuff and
that are like 30 minutes each. And
so we as you know, 15 year olds were like, we can do that. And
so there, there are records out there that probably you can
(09:26):
find them on band camp or something. But in there
are sort of experiments when we were in high school trying to come up with
these really epic
ambient, an instrumental, whatever. But
there was also like a bunch of weird stuff. Like we would. We sample. I
remember we sampled like a five minute like speech by like Ron
(09:47):
Paul or something like that and put it in a. And put a song. We're
like, this is. We're saying something. I don't know what we're saying. We're saying something.
And anyway I remember like we burned CDs we're like handing out to our friends
and. But I.
So then, but after like a year or two of doing the really weird stuff,
(10:07):
I was like, which was fun and I'm glad that we did that.
I remember thinking like, like I want to do, I want to do
music that's not just soaked in reverb
and a bunch of weird Effects and things I want to try and make like
a folk record. And so I started a project
named after an Andrew Bird song called Fiery
(10:30):
Crash. And that was my project for a few years.
And I think the best, honestly the best record I think that came out of
that project was, is called Practice Shots. And I'm still, I'm maybe
11 or 12 years removed from that one. And I'm still pretty proud of that
project. There's some things I would change because I was like 17 when I made
it, but. But I'm still pretty proud of that one
(10:52):
and. But just you on those
things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was kind of a solo thing. I just made
it in my bedroom at my parents house and.
And then eventually I, I
kind of got tired of that name Fiery Crash because it was just.
If you googled it, you would. You had to kind of dig to find my
(11:14):
band camp and. Yeah, but before that, horrible news,
horrible news. Articles about people dying and car crashes
and stuff. So like page 5 of Google search like, yeah,
oh, there he is. Yeah, so.
And it just sucked telling like, like, you know, there'd be like
older people at church or whatever. They'd be like, so I hear you make music.
(11:37):
How do I find that? And I'd be like, well, just Google Fiery Crash.
And, and it was just such an awkward conversation. So,
and so eventually I was like, okay, let me think of something. So I
eventually settled on this name called Make Sure.
And that one just felt like it's kind of short, sweet, zippy.
(11:58):
And it could be a lot of things, I think so,
you know, and, and as with most band names, it's just like, why'd you pick
it? Well, it wasn't taken, so I guess I just kind of go with that.
But. Right. So there's not really like a deeper meaning behind it.
Maybe, maybe someday they're all think of one. But just make
sure you check us out. Yeah. Hey, there you go. Yeah, a lot of people
(12:19):
mishear me. They'll go mixture. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Make, make sure.
And. But so that's the name of Worth now.
And that's the project that got signed with Tooth and Nail. So
I always tell people that because I get the record deal. I said, well,
it's just kind of like anything with,
you know, or how'd you get the girlfriend? How'd you get the. Whatever, you know,
(12:41):
I'm like, well, it's just like shooting free throws in basketball. You just, just keep
going, man. But the, the point of
that is that you just kept trying, you know. Right.
So you miss 100, 100% of the shots you don't take. Was it like. That's
correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Fear of striking out keep you from playing the game. There you go. Yeah. I
(13:03):
was going to ask you how you got the. The deal. So you started make
sure. And was it similar to Fiery Crash or
did you trying to change the sound up entirely? Yeah, yeah, I think make sure
it's maybe a little more emo. Okay. Well.
And as in like people would say was I like American Football
or Death Cab for Cutie kind of that sort of stuff.
(13:26):
I get that comparison the most People say I sound
like Ben Gibbard, which I take it as a compliment because. That was
a legend. Yeah, he's a legend. And with American Football
that's a cool reference. Not that band doesn't get the respect they deserve,
I don't think. Unless it's more in the indie scene. Dude, I've seen them live.
We got to. We played audio feed last year and
(13:50):
that's up in Urbana I think which is really
close to champagne. So we, we made the. The pilgrimage to the American
Football house. That's on the. The album, their first album cover.
And no way. They were so cool. I mean it's just a. It's just a
dumpy old house at this point. But it's. It's really cool because I mean it's
just like a college. Just like you would find in any town is kind of
(14:11):
a. Just an old college dorm looking house. But.
But it's. You know, it was so cool though. And they have in the. In
the window they have like a little flag that has the. The.
The first album cover on it. Do they still to this day.
Wow. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it
was cool to see. And yeah, they put an album out a few years ago
(14:34):
which was like pretty rad. I was like. I felt like I didn't you know,
hear from them in a long time and I'm like, wait, what? American Football have
a new album. They're still doing stuff. I. We could go on a tangent about
that. I really like Owen, his Mike Cancella solo project
and I think the reason that the. The so so
called comeback records I guess of the American Football because they didn't,
(14:57):
they didn't put out a record for long time and maybe.
Yeah. And then they put that album out. Yeah. Not that long ago. To me
it was just. It's still good because it was like
Mike Kinsella was still doing music for for
all those years, he didn't. I think with a lot of times those bands that
will come back 20 years later and it's kind of like, what is this? It's
(15:18):
not the same thing. But it was because he. He was consistent with his stuff.
And then it was like, well, this is not a big deal for me to
just make another American football record. So I think that they.
The fact that he was still in the game, you know, all those years later
really helped out. And I think they're. They're great records, so. And
you said, aren't you playing this year's
(15:39):
audio? Yeah, yeah, we'll be there. Awesome. Yep.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun last year and I. I'm looking forward to
doing it again. Nice. Well, so,
yeah. When do you decide to change the name to. To make sure. Was it
a few years later? Were you in college at this point and did you go
to college for music? I went to college for
(16:01):
media studies, like communications and stuff, but neither here nor
there. The. Yeah, it was in. It was in college, I think.
So I. I had this vision to make a record called Walk Home
instead. And that was the first. That's the first make sure album. And the.
I spent four or five years like demoing and
(16:22):
doing stuff for that and
it. Yeah, but that, that was during
college. I decided to go with the name and
put out that first record. Well, we put out an EP
and that's called Town Runner and that one has more of that, like I said,
sort of the emo indie rock flavor. There's kind
(16:45):
of some mathy stuff going on and
I guess. Yeah, I mean you would hope this with every project, but I
make sure to me is like the most finely tuned. Like
I'm gonna be the most perfectionistic I can be. And it needs to sound
as like high quality as it can. Whereas a lot of the other stuff I
(17:05):
did was kind of home recorded. Not as.
Not as sharp sounding, but so anyway.
But yeah, I just wanted it to have the pretty. Pretty high quality stuff and.
And that. That was. That's been the goal and still. Still is
the goal with. With Make Sure. So was that first.
Was that first CP recorded then.
(17:29):
You. Did it like in a studio and everything wasn't like. Yeah, yeah.
And the same guys I still work with today.
Clubman Studios, it's in Blairsville,
which is not. Not too far from Nashville, I guess, but a couple hours maybe,
but up near where the Blue Ridge Mountains are.
If you've ever been in that. That area, it's beautiful. Up there. And I have
(17:50):
a buddy named Jimmy Smith. And it's
half of this, it's half of his. His house, and the other half is the
studio. And that's like one of my
all time favorite places to go because you just. And the. In the. In
these beautiful mountain ranges and you're making records
and that's just. It's so much fun. I can get. I can get lost.
(18:12):
Lost in the weeds there. For sure. That's awesome. For sure.
So then you. Yeah, you did your. Was Walk Home instead. Your first, like, full
album. As make sure. Yeah, yeah, as make sure.
And then that one you put out what, on your own before you got signed
to. To the now? Yeah, yeah, that was an independent release.
And then the next one was called
(18:34):
Ninjutsu. That's where you
and that did. You did that whole process of getting signed to them
and then working on that album, releasing it, because that came out in
2021. Were you like, in the middle of the pandemic? Was that kind of an
album that you've written during that time? And is that when you linked up with
Tooth and Nail? Yeah, so it was.
(18:57):
I think. Well, pretty much the album was done.
It was. We. I did it all through the pandemic. We were working
remote, so I just had a whole bunch of time on my hands and
yeah, just recorded it, finished it, got it
mastered. And
(19:19):
then I. The. The girl that sang a bunch of
harmonies on that, her name's Marina. And she. By the time we
finished it, she'd heard it. She's like, oh, you. Are you going to send
this around? And I was like, well, I just figured I'd do what I usually
do and just kind of throw it on the Internet. And there you go.
She's like, oh, you're. I think she. I think she was like, you're stupid if
(19:41):
you don't, like, send this around to somebody. She's like. And
also kind of like, we put a lot of work into this. So, yeah, she's
like, let's just not on Spotify or Fan Camp and
call it a day. So. So then I. Yeah. And
again with the free throw thing, I was like, okay, I'm just going to come
up with like as many record labels as I can think of that
(20:02):
might take this. And
yeah, so anyway, and I just was emailing people. I have a buddy that
works for Secretly Canadian, the. That record
label. And so I, I reached out to him. I was like, all right, if
I'm actually going to send this around, what would I Do. And
(20:22):
so he kind of gave me some pointers and stuff and. Yeah.
And so I. But eventually Tooth and Nail, they
just. I got like a text one day or something and I thought it was
one of my friends messing with me because I was like, this is.
That's crazy. You know, there's a lot of bands and records I love
from. From that. That label.
(20:45):
Yeah, they have some huge, huge artist. I mean, there.
So. So I feel. I was. I still kind of, you know, pinch
myself. I'm like, this. This doesn't feel real sometimes. It's. But it's.
It's awesome. I'm. I'm so happy it happened.
So. Yeah, they. But it. But the record was already finished, so I just like
sent it to them and it was basically just put it out. Yeah, I
(21:07):
was like, do you like it? Check yes or no. And they. They checked yes,
thankfully. And. And yeah.
And I. And then we just sort of coordinated with releasing it and stuff
and. Awesome. Who. Who are you talking with? My neighbor is an
ANR for Tooth and Nail. No way. Wait, who are they? His
(21:27):
name's Brian Ortiz. Is that who assigned
you? No way. Yeah. That's awesome. That's so
cool. I gotta tell him that I chatted with you. He signed a couple other
people I've spoke to going to the nail because I worked through Adam
Splitter, but they do a lot of the PR for. For
them. So. Yeah, I know He. He does that in
(21:51):
the. The More. The full Christian side. What is it called,
CBE or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
So that texted you and said, hey, yeah, let's do this. Yeah. He's
like, hey, Brian from Tooth and Nail, can we. Can we talk? And I was
like, yes, yes, we can.
Yeah. He lives right down the road from me, and my son and his son
(22:13):
are like, like best friends. Oh, that's awesome. So good.
That's crazy. Cool, man. So then, yeah, so he gets you signed up, you. You
guys put that record out and. And you're. And you just put
out another. Or you're about to put out. That's right. Yeah. So
tell me about this. This album. And since this would be the first time you
technically were working with them
(22:35):
as far as putting the album together, because before it was like, this is done.
Do you want it? Right, Correct. Yeah. So this time around, it's.
Let's work on an album. And yeah. Was that different?
I mean, they basically were just like, we'll give you what you need for
studio time. But I think one of the things I,
I admire about the label is they don't, they're
(22:57):
not, you know, they're not whipping me with,
you know, mandates to say it's got to sound like this and you
got to do this thing. And there has to be trap rap,
hi hats in there somewhere. You know, they don't say any of that stuff. So
I just kind of told. I remember I actually, I had a phone call with
Brian maybe a year or two ago, and it was like, this is my vision
(23:19):
for the record. And he goes, like, sounds great. Let's do it.
You know, it's just like. Like what? You know, he. No second thoughts for him.
He was just like, okay, cool. Sounds good. And,
but with that, I mean, I think there's just a lot of
trust. Like, they, they're as in, they're kind of like, hey,
look, kid, I think you're, you're probably perfectionistic enough anyway,
(23:42):
so we'll just let you do your thing.
Do what you want. That's cool. Yeah, but they,
and I think that they have, like, if I needed a mastering engineer or anything,
they would, they would provide that. I, I, I like to
use Dave Wilton out in Colorado. He does, he's a friend of
mine and he does really great work, and so he's mastered the last two records.
(24:05):
But with stuff like that, I think with anything, they, they would be happy to
provide stuff if I needed it, but a lot of times it's, there's. I have
enough local connections anyway that I'm able to put stuff
together. So they're a little more hands off when it comes to those things. Yeah,
they're, they're just, they're like, whatever, you know, you turn it in now. If I
turn in, I, I feel like if I turn in, like a polka record or
(24:25):
something, they'd be a little thrown off, you know, not that I would ever. Probably.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, this doesn't sound. Let's reconsider what
we're doing here. Yeah, yeah. So. But, you know,
this. I, I think everybody's been happy with, with
what I turned in, so. That's awesome, man. So
tell me about the album then. Going to the album was the concept.
(24:48):
Yes. So the album's called June, and I wanted to
make something that effectively is just, just a really immediate
album, that it would be
like the kind of thing you'd want to put on in the car and just
go for a drive and. Because that's how I've been listening to music a lot
in the last couple of years is, you know, what what music, what songs do
(25:10):
I really like to just put on in the car? And it. And I just
take a ride around town and, and just soak it in and
enjoy it. But also things that study,
things that I want to like, play over and over again.
So whether that's the Goo Goo Dolls or
Oasis or, you know, you name it. But,
(25:34):
but I think that there's like, there are elements to be studied about that.
So there's. I studied a lot
of like what makes up the skeleton of these songs that
I have enjoyed since childhood. And as a
28 year old I'm still like listening to them over and over again.
(25:55):
And so, yeah, I just did a whole lot
of looking into it and, and trying to
implement some of those strategies into my own writing with the songs I was making
for the record and,
and just basically I just make a really polished kind of alternative pop
rock record. I think I was thinking, I was
(26:17):
like, I want it. I want it to sound like it's this lost record from
1998 or something that it. And it. And it has
resurfaced. It's like, oh, this was going to come out back then, but. But here
it is now. You know, I don't know if it actually sounds like
that, but I think it does. I was going to say it has that like,
kind of tones to it. Yeah. And I got the first.
(26:39):
I think it's. Maybe it's the first song album, the piano ballad that kind of
starts it and like just the guitars and like the other
sounds in there kind of remind me of. Yeah, that
90s alternative kind of style. Well, good.
I'm so glad you said that. That's reassuring.
So we, My gosh, I mean, we reference so much stuff
(26:59):
of just. I mean, my favorite era is going to be the 90s also. I
love the 80s and 70s and 2000s and all that stuff. But
in particular, I mean, there's like, there's just,
you know, I don't know how nerdy we want to get, but there's, there's. There's
like a way that like drums are mixed now like in 2024
(27:20):
that I hate. I don't like it because it's, it's like everything's like
so. And this is my opinion, you know, so people,
if they want, but like, it's like I'm not going to mix my record where
the drums are just like slapping you in the face as hard
as possible and they almost just sound like fake. There's this
artifice to it that I don't like, but then you go back and listen to,
(27:41):
like, the first Audio Slave record and it's. The drums
are kicking your butt, but they're not overbearing.
Yeah. It's even like the, you know, the earlier. The Nirvana album. Oh, yeah,
yeah. There's like the, there's kind of some, like,
for all of those 90s bands, really. There's, there's, like. It doesn't sound
(28:01):
perfect. Like, the tones aren't perfect. Yeah. Which I think is
cool. Yeah, yeah. There's. The newer drums are
really, like. Because the EQ
is perfect and everything can be like, like, you know, warped into this
really perfect sound. Like the kick's gonna sound the same every single
time. Or the, you know, like, I think there's something cool about having
(28:24):
a little grit to, to those elements. Yeah. And, and
it's not even that, like, I'm against using samples and stuff like that because that's
on the record. I mean, there's, there's places where we use that. I, I, in
fact, I love using a kick sample because I think that that helps a lot
as well. What people don't know, maybe, is if you go back and
listen to these records mixed by Andy Wallace and Butch
(28:45):
Vig and stuff like that. It's funny now because with AI you can
like, there's, there's all these videos now. You can find
the isolated drums from Smells Like Teen Spirit or whatever,
and you listen to this stuff and you're like, shoot, they were using a kick
sample like that. A lot of these things are. They're more robotic than we
thought. But at the same time, I'm like, as long as it
(29:08):
was a real performance at one time. Right. I don't care.
Yeah. It's like if, but if I need to take a kick sample to
replace my flubby sounding kick drum that I recorded that we just
didn't get the tone right. But if I can fix that in
post, but still maintain the, like, humanity of the performance,
I'm going to do that. So I think what,
(29:30):
what, what gets on my nerves is like, we joked
a lot about, while we were mixing this album because
Smashing Pumpkins was releasing their album Autumn, which is the most,
like, most recent thing that they've done, and it is the most
quantized, just compressed to high heaven,
just, Just not, not. They lost the plot, you know, it's
(29:52):
just not the same. They lost quite a while ago. Yeah, they did.
But, hey, if I met Billy Corgan today, I'd give him a high five and
be like, dude, oh yeah. It's like one of the thank you so much. Writers
of all time. But yeah, but it's either way quite a bit.
Yeah, so. But yeah, listening to like,
their, their records from the 90s and stuff, you're just like, this
(30:14):
is some of the best mixed music I've ever heard in my life.
And, and I, I now. So that to me is like the standard of,
you know, their, their records from like 91 to 2000. I'm
like, that's. That, that's the gold standard for me. It's what I want my
albums to sound like. And so.
But yeah, there's, there's just so many like, tricks and stuff. Like, I'm not, I'm
(30:37):
not opposed to quantizing. I'm not opposed to using,
using technology to, to fix mistakes and stuff like that.
I'm not even. I'm really not opposed to Auto Tune either. But all the stuff
is just like, am I using these tricks
to make it lifeless and, and sound
like a robot made it, or am I doing it to just,
(31:01):
you know, sand down the rough edges and, and polish it where it needs to
be polished, but, but still have an intention to maintain
the humanity of it all at the end of the day?
Because there's some places where you need to leave the mistakes in. Because the mistakes,
like you said, can be really cool and make it feel, make it feel human.
Right, Right, right. No, I, I love it. It's. It's funny you brought up
(31:23):
Auto. Have you heard like, TI sing normally?
Yeah. It's insane how good he is. It's like, why do you make your voice
robotic all the time? Yeah, well, I think people, a lot of people don't realize
there's a way to sing into. Like, if
I think nowadays I sing, I'm like, I, I'm consciously aware that
(31:43):
there's gonna be put on this at the, at the back
end. Right Enough to. Where it's like, like, to me, I see Auto
Tune as like if you go bowling
and you have those little, like, safeguards up. Yeah, that's
really all it's supposed to be bumpers. You know, it's like, okay, I was trying
to hit that E at one point, but I fell a little shy of where
(32:05):
I was supposed to go. But the, with the computer program, you can just. It
just kind of nudges it in and fixes that.
But if it's a thing where it's like, dude, you just can't sing, you have
no idea what you're doing, then it becomes glaringly obvious. That auto tune was
used because it's like over
correcting and it's. Yeah, it sounds way robotic. Once you're. If you're totally
(32:27):
off. If you're just saying something and had no clue what you're doing
you. When it fixes it it just doesn't sound right. You're like yeah.
And one, one thing do two. I used Melodyne
to. Not on my voice but on. Because there's a lot of pedal
steel in this record and pedal still.
I'm like unless you are the most.
(32:50):
I'm not saying this guy, the guy who. The session musician did an amazing
job but pedal still is one of those things that it's. It can be a
cent or two off and to my ears which are pretty sensitive. I'm like
there's that needs to be fixed, you know. So I got,
I got Melodyne where you can do like polyphonic
tuning where there's. You can. You can scan in like
(33:12):
all of the notes that occurred and whatever instrumental performance
and you can like go in and like correct,
you know, whatever notes. Need to be corrected. But as I was doing
that and I'm like hearing back the
corrected version of the, you know, the performance and stuff and
then, and then you kind of realize like everybody be doing this.
(33:34):
Like everybody's doing this. All of the,
you know. And now I'll listen to like you know, million dollar
albums by this or that popular artist and I'm.
And I'm like shoot, they're doing it. They're using Melodyne to
you know. And so it's like if the pros are doing it then
it's almost kind of silly to not. Not utilize the tools
(33:57):
that, that they're using.
But again if it's like, if it's just like a crappy performance altogether which this
was not. That's like I said the and. And the.
Because I think that there's. You can hear something getting overcorrected
where it was like it was just really poor to begin with and we had
to salvage it. But that was never the case I don't think with
(34:20):
any of the. The performances with this record.
Jimmy Smith and, and Michael Minkoff, the guys I worked with,
their philosophy is like we need to get it as good
as we can going into the box so that we don't have
to like you know, really 10 spend too much time
polishing and overcorrecting on the back end and the
(34:43):
post production stuff. So it's kind of this philosophy is like needs to be as
good as possible when we record it
so we're not having to play doctor at the. @ the end there. Right.
And I think that this record really shows that. I mean, just
listening back to it, I'm really happy with a lot of the tones we got
(35:04):
and. Yeah. So I. I think I would confidently
say at this point in my career that this is the.
This is the most, like, polished and clean sounding album, but at the same time,
there's still these rough edges and stuff that are there
intentionally. But I think that this is probably the best.
Sonically, this is the best
(35:26):
sounding album that I've. I've done so far and I'm really proud of.
Proud of the work we did. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. The songs I've
heard thus far are, Are killer, man. Yeah. Thank you.
And then the album coming out in a week. Are you doing like a release
show or. I know you're doing obviously the, the. The one festival
again, but yeah, we're. We're gonna have
(35:49):
like a. A party here in town and
I. So one thing that's going on in my life right now
is at the end of this month, I'm getting married. Wow.
Congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. And so
Catherine, my soon to be wife, is throwing. She's
throwing a party for the album release. And so
(36:13):
I'll probably play a couple of songs or whatever, but I think it's mostly she
just. She's like, I don't want to stress you out, you know, like, we're just
gonna have. We might listen through the record or it might be on in the
background, but it's mostly just going to be kind of a. A
celebration with friends and everybody to kind of just
she. Because I mean, she's like. She's like, I know you better than anybody. I
(36:34):
know that you've nearly driven yourself insane trying to finish this
record. So we're gonna. We're gonna celebrate and, and
just throw a little, little party with some friends to, to commemorate
the occasion and all the hard work. Very, very cool.
Well, I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Josh, for doing this. Yeah,
man. Yeah. It was just fun talking to you. Yeah. I do have
(36:56):
one more question for you. I want to know if you have any advice for
aspiring artists.
I would say just keep,
keep working and keep, keep honing your craft. That might be kind of a
boring answer, but I think,
(37:18):
like, the best thing to be doing is to
like, challenge yourself on, on songwriting and stuff like that. Always
be thinking, what can I do better? And to. And to really, really
study the songs that inspire
you figure out. Don't. Don't be just saying I like this song
because it sounds great. You know, Figure out what is it
(37:40):
exactly about the songs that you enjoy? You know, I
like it that this. This one song, it goes to
a minor third at the bridge, and then I like the Corporation there. I think
that really speaks to me. Then borrow it and try it in your own
song, you know, and an experiment. So, yeah,
learn the tricks that the guys that you really enjoy. Learn their tricks and
(38:03):
then see if you can implement them in your own songs and experiment and
just see what you get on the other side.
You bring
(38:24):
it backward, bring it backward, bring
it backward? Bring it back, bring
it backward?
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