Cursed Horror Movies: Rosemary’s Baby

Grab your fertility amulets and your haunted cradle, because today, we’re getting a broader understanding of Rosemary’s Baby, the film that birthed an entire genre of occult paranoia… and maybe even a few curses along the way. From the comas, to the cults, to fhe infamous crimes.

Is the devil really in the details or just in us?

CW: graphic violence

Sources:

Cursed Movies: Rosemary’s Baby
Shudder

Helter Skelter
Book by Curt Gentry and Vincent Bugliosi

Roman Polanski Opens Up About Sharon Tate's Murder | The Dick Cavett Show

Tate-LaBianca Press Conference

Tate-LaBianca: 50 Years Later
ABC News

The Most Cursed Hit Movie Ever Made

https://www.vanityfair.com/hol...

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/broads-next-door--5803223/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
And the satanic themes that appeared in Rosemary's Bay just
seemed perfectly in step with the tenor of the times.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
In nineteen sixty eight, everything was kind of changing culturally.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Vietnam War was really.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
At its worst, so there was a massive youth movement
to stop the war.

Speaker 4 (00:21):
A lot of people, including government. You heard that this
revolution was actually going to happen in.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
The United States, fueled by the youth of America.

Speaker 5 (00:30):
It was a violent, turbulent time.

Speaker 6 (00:32):
This is a CBS News special report the death of
doctor Martin Luther King Junior.

Speaker 5 (00:36):
In nineteen sixty eight, there was a Martin Luther King assassination.
There was the Robert Kennedy assassination. I always say horror
films reflect the times we lived. Rosemary's Baby came out
at a pivotal moment in history. A world was really
changing and horror films changing with it.

Speaker 7 (00:52):
Rosemary's Baby was a milestone movie. Not too many mainstream
Hollywood films even now would deal with the story.

Speaker 8 (00:59):
Of a young woman raped and I'm pregnant or the Toad.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I think it's one of the greatest horror movies I've
ever made. Very simple reason that it presents the adversary
as us, not someone who transforms under a full mood
comes out only at night. But the adversary is my
slightly wacky, eccentric nosie if likable neighbors, And I think
that's the movie's genius.

Speaker 9 (01:22):
Hello, and neighbors, lovers, friends, and anyone who's ever been
suspicious of their own prenatal vitamins. I'm Daniella Screama and
this is Broad's next.

Speaker 10 (01:35):
Door brab a fertility.

Speaker 9 (01:37):
Amulet, And don't open the door for your creepy neighbors
speacause today we're getting a broader understanding of Rosemary's Baby,
a film that birthed an entire genre of a cult
paranoia and maybe a few curses along the way. Hi, Hello,
how is everyone?

Speaker 10 (01:59):
I hope you are doing well.

Speaker 9 (02:01):
We are finally in October, my favorite month to get
possessed by art, mystery, and mild hysteria. All month long,
I'll be covering cursed films, spooky myths, haunt and lore,
and real life horror stories that feel too cinematic to
be true. But it all starts here with a movie

(02:22):
so infamous, so layered in death, disaster and demonic suspicion.
That it still makes people say a eye their landlord,
their husband, and their neighbors, because in so many ways,
this isn't just a horror story. It's a cautionary tale
of blind trust of power and of what happens when

(02:44):
women are told they're crazy while the devil is literally
inside of them. My main sources for this episode will
be Rosemary's Baby, the book and the movie. The book
Helter Skelter the Shutter, Cursed Films episode on Rosemary's Baby,
and a Vanity Fair article which I will link to
in the show notes. So let's get into it. Let's rewind,

(03:08):
not yet to the Cursed film, but to the book
it's based on. In nineteen sixty five, Arthur Ira Levine
was living in New York City. His wife was pregnant
at the time, and somewhere between the nausea Filah's classes
and the mid century misogyny of obgyn care, he began
to write what would become Rosemary's Baby. He wouldn't let

(03:32):
her see a page until it was published in March
of nineteen sixty seven. The plot Rosemary Woodhouse, a sweet,
trusting newlywed, and her actor husband Guy move into the
Bramford a beautiful old apartment building in New York. The
neighbors are eccentric, the husband is ambitious, and the wife

(03:53):
is being gas lits so hard it might as well
be an explosion. When Rosemary becomes pregnant, everything shifts. She's sick,
she's paranoid. Her friends start dying, and the nice elderly
couple next door keep giving her these weird vitamin and
drinks and insisting she see their doctor instead of her own.

(04:15):
And meanwhile, her husband Guy, his acting career suddenly takes off,
almost as if someone made a deal. By the time
Rosemary realizes what's happening, by the time she sees her
baby's eyes and her own fate, it's much too late.
In this story. It's not just like the devils in

(04:35):
the details, It's like the devils in the way everyone
lies to her, the way everyone around her tells her
she's imagining it, that she should rest, that everything will
be fine, and that she's just being hysterical.

Speaker 10 (04:48):
Levine was so worried.

Speaker 9 (04:49):
That the book would get him blacklisted. This was putting
Satanism in a whole new light. Time magazine had just
published an issue where the cover asked, is God dead,
but it didn't get him blacklisted. It became a best seller,
and less than a year later it was ready for
a film adaptation, with the ever problematic Roman Polansky set

(05:14):
to direct. This is from Cursed Films on shutter Rosemary's Baby.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Polanski was in many ways of Bellweather of his times.
He too observed that traditional hierarchies were being upended. There
was fascination with witchcraft and questions of the after life,
and of course with anton La based bounding of the
Church of Satan. There was a question about whether adversarial

(05:39):
forces represented a legitimate, spiritual or ethical path for people.
So suddenly doors to the infinite were thrown open. Rosemary's
Baby is considered Cursed.

Speaker 9 (05:50):
Directed by Roman Polansky. The film adaptation was released in
nineteen sixty eight and stars Mia Farrow as Rosemary, a tiny,
fragile doll woman with a swingy mod haircut and absolutely
no idea how cursed she's about to become. The sledding
is a glamorous, haunted house kind of way. I think

(06:12):
Gothic New York pre war apartment meets funeral home aesthetic.
Her husband, played by John Cassavetti's is hot in a sweaty, manipulative, misogynistic.

Speaker 10 (06:23):
Kind of way.

Speaker 9 (06:24):
The neighbors many in Roman, are nosy, charming, and very
good at hiding who they are. What makes the film
so chilling is how normal it all could seem. The
gas lighting is domestic, the betrayal is slow, the horror
is eternal. There's no big exorcism, no holy water showdown.

(06:45):
There's just a woman growing something monstrous inside her being
told to smile.

Speaker 10 (06:50):
And that's what.

Speaker 9 (06:50):
Makes Rosemary's Baby so cursed, not just because of what
happens on screen or off screen afterward, because of what
happens next. By the time it premieres, it's a sensation.
Critics love it, audiences are unnerved, and Roman Polanski, who
had just made his first American film, was suddenly a
Hollywood golden boy. But the curse hadn't really started yet.

(07:14):
It was just kind of gathering. Roman Polanski and Sharon
Tate were the it couple of the late sixties. She
was luminous twenty six, starring in Valley of the Dolls.
He was the young genius director who'd made Repulsion and
called The Sack. They married in London in nineteen sixty
eight and moved into a house at one zero zero
five zero Cello Drive in Los Angeles, a rental actually

(07:38):
producer Terry Muncher's old place, and they threw parties filled
with music and the counterculture's brightest lights. At the same time,
A man named Charles Manson, who's building a bit of
a cult, believes that the Beatles' White Album is speaking
directly to him. Helter Skelter, a fast, kedaotic song about

(07:59):
a bridge slide, became his prophecy of an apocalyptic race war.
He told his followers to kill to make it look
like black revolutionaries were behind it to trigger the war
that he called Helter Skelter. The song was released in
nineteen sixty eight, this same year as Rosemary's Baby. Mia
Farrow had actually been in India at the Maha Arashi's

(08:23):
Ashram where the Beatles with the Beatles when they wrote
some of the White Album songs. She was literally there
when the seed of Helter Skelter was unintentionally planted in
one of those weird cursed loops, the movie about Satan's Child,
the man obsessed with Helter Skelter and the woman who
was supposed to play Rosemary all converged and the producer.

(08:47):
I mentioned Terry Melcher. Manson was pissed at him. He
hadn't gotten the record deal and the musical success he wanted.
Whether he knew that Terry Melcher had moved out of
the Cello Drive house or no odd is debated, but
in the end it wouldn't matter.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Well I ask, he meant.

Speaker 7 (09:04):
Sharon Tate in in Swinging nineteen sixty seven, Sharon Tate
was always the ambitious.

Speaker 11 (09:10):
I feel a little top heavy.

Speaker 12 (09:12):
You are a.

Speaker 11 (09:13):
Little top heavy. What's your ultimate ambition?

Speaker 13 (09:16):
I want to remain as much myself as possible, you know,
and just do what really excites.

Speaker 11 (09:23):
Me in interest.

Speaker 7 (09:24):
She was also smart enough to see that Polanski was a.

Speaker 14 (09:27):
Man with the future romans absolutely a genius.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, he was a hard luck guy.

Speaker 14 (09:34):
There's a brilliant correct and I had a lot of
hard luck in his life.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
I'm sure that leaves his mark.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Rosemary's Baby was written by Ira Levin, a self professed
New York atheist, and Levin asked himself the question one day,
what would it be like if I took a scene
from everyday life a young woman becoming pregnant and made
it into a kind of.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
A nightmare got to him.

Speaker 15 (09:55):
Baby.

Speaker 16 (09:56):
You're also seeing this horror of women at that time period.
When you watch that movie, there's always an older.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Man nighting her by the back of her arm.

Speaker 16 (10:02):
She's always being told to ignore her instincts, to always
just sort of mold to whatever these men want from her.
And she's really absorbing that that was the story for
women for so many generations. They didn't have any other
choice but to mold with in that world or perish.
It's saying something about her, but it's also equally subversive
in that she's going against her own Catholic faith to
raise this satanic child.

Speaker 17 (10:22):
One important aspect that defines Rosemary's Baby, there's William Castle's involvement.

Speaker 5 (10:26):
Dad was the nicest, kindest, most compassionate man who just
happened to love to scare the hell out of people.

Speaker 17 (10:34):
He was a well respected director, producer, ghosts, you know,
but most of his films, you know, he was he
was the gimmick guy.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
I mean, I loved Homicidal, where there was a clock
that came up right at the climates of the film,
so if you were too frightened to stay, you could
leave and get your money back. He had a film
called House on Haunted Hill and something called a mergo
a skeleton flew across the theater to everybody's screams of delight.

Speaker 8 (11:00):
Who produced that film?

Speaker 18 (11:00):
And he bought Rosemary's Baby then I was not overwenty two, so.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
My dad definitely wanted to direct Rosemary's Baby. That he
bought the property and he brought the book Robert Evans
over at Paramount.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
But it was within the.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Week I think that they said, no, we're going to
have this young, hot, new director, Roman Polanski directed, and
my father.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Was really upset.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
He still was going to produce this, but his shot
at directing an a film.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Was taken away from him.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
I remember the day when he called.

Speaker 8 (11:29):
And said that he was I really love it directed himself.
He was Roman Plansky, and was I terribly.

Speaker 18 (11:34):
Unhappy because I said, no, I forgot And.

Speaker 11 (11:39):
I remember Roman coming over the.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
House and my dad saw Roman's fantastic talent and thought, okay,
let's do this.

Speaker 9 (11:45):
And while all of the exteriors will be filmed in
New York City, you have the exterior of the Dakota,
you have all the New York architecture. The rest is
filmed in Paramount studio lots, and the pairamounts studio lots
at they're filmed Dawn are on the ground of a
former cemetery, so there's just layers to all of this.

(12:07):
At the time, Mia Farrow is married to another renowned
misogynist who will somehow be better than her next husband.
But she's married to Frank Sinatra and he actually ends
up serving her divorce papers while she's on set, but
the real tragedies start to take place after the film
has been released. The last time that Roman polanskiy Saw's wife,

(12:30):
Sharon Tate, was at the end of July. He was
going to Europe to work on a film. She stayed behind.
She had friends staying with her, Abigail Folger, Wychek Frykowski,
Jaycee Brang her hairdresser and ex boyfriend, and on the
night of August eighth, when Sharon was eight and a

(12:53):
half months pregnant, at around midnight, four members of Charles
Manson's cult, Susan Atkins, Patricia Crenwinkle, Tex Watson, and Linda Kasabian,
cut the phone lines and climbed the hill up to
one zero zero five zero Colo Drive. They were following

(13:13):
Manson's orders kill everyone in the house, make it witchy.

Speaker 10 (13:18):
Tex Watson kicked things.

Speaker 9 (13:19):
Off with an owl and from miss Line, I'm the
devil and I'm here to do the devil's business. What
followed was absolute carnage. When they first entered the house,
no one even really thought anything was wrong. They were
so used to people coming and going. Abigail Folger, heir
to the Folder's Coffee Fortune, is reading a book in

(13:43):
bed and she waves at Patty Crenwinkle when she sees
her because she doesn't think anything is up, and then
they start being slaughtered. Stephn Parent was outside in his car.
He tried to bait back up to escape, but he
was shot. Jay Seabring was tied up next to Sharon
Tate woy Chuck fry Kowski was beaten and stabbed over

(14:06):
fifty times.

Speaker 10 (14:09):
A gagel.

Speaker 9 (14:10):
Abigail Folger made it to the lawn barefoot and bleeding,
but Susan Atkins jumped on her back and stabbed her
another twenty eight times. Sharon had a noose put around
her neck. She was next to Jay, who was trying
to tell her that everything was going to be okay.
She begged and begged and begged for them to let

(14:33):
her live long enough to have her baby. The Manson
members said she kept saying, please, just let me have
my baby. J. C. Bring was tied up and shot
and then stabbed seven times. Susan Atkins told Sharon woman,
I have no mercy for you. Then they stabbed her
sixteen times. They used her blood to write pig on

(14:56):
the door. Linda Kasabian, who claimed she's outside the whole time,
said the screaming never stopped. The next night, you'd have
the Lobbyonca murders, then you have Helter Skelter. The name
Helter Skelter became famous a few months later when Charles
Manson was arrested and the murders were finally linked. Prosecutor

(15:19):
Vincent Bugliosi would write the definitive book on the case,
Helter Skelter. It reads like horror fiction, but most of
it is real. The book is still one of the
best selling true crime books of all time and one
of the books that's disturbed me the most in my life.
Manson said he believed the Beatles were sending him messages

(15:40):
through the White Album that the world would end in
a race war, that he and his followers would survive
by hiding in a bottomless pit in the Mahabi desert,
and that he killed enough pigs the revolution would begin.
This wasn't Satanism. This was madness wrapped in pop culture
and delusions weaponized. I'll getst tenth nineteen sixty nine. One

(16:03):
night after the murders, the same cult members minus Kassabian,
broke into the house of Lio and Rosemary, Lobbyanka and
los Felis. They didn't know the Lobbyankas, there was no connection.
This was just another random victims, chosen because their house
looked like a house where rich people lived. Leno was

(16:24):
stabbed twelve times. A knife and a carving fork were
left in his body. Rosemary was stabbed forty one times.
The word war was carved into his stomach. Death to
pigs was written on the wall. Helter skelter misspelled was
scrawled on the refrigerator in blood. Roman and Polanski was
in London when all of this happened. When he got

(16:44):
the news on the phone, he collapsed. He flew home
immediately broken. He gave interviews from inside the house. Photographers
snapped pictures of him kneeling in the blood stained living room,
creeving like a man possessed. He believed at first that
he had been the target, that the killers were coming
for him, and Sharon just happened to be there. But
the more the details emerged, the more random, horrific, and

(17:05):
pointless it all seemed. He never recovered, not really. This
was the moment the sixties died. According to a lot
of people, this was when love and peace turned to
paranoia and locks on every door. Rosemary's Baby had premiered
just a year before, a story about a woman isolated,
lied to, sacrificed, and then Sharon, who believed in it,

(17:25):
who loved it, was isolated, lied to, and sacrificed herself.
The audio section on this next part is not great,
but this is the press conference following the Tate Lobbianca murders.

Speaker 11 (17:42):
This is a press really.

Speaker 13 (17:45):
The autopsy said of the five victims had been completed.

Speaker 11 (17:49):
And the cause of this. Let's followed Miss.

Speaker 13 (17:54):
Adigail Closure the cause of death.

Speaker 11 (17:58):
Staff wounds are the.

Speaker 13 (18:01):
Chest causing a massive hemorrhage and also stab wounds and
other areas, and Missus Sharon Veloski the cause of death
is multiple stab wounds of the chest and back causing
penetration of the various vital organs and resulting a massive

(18:25):
internal hemorrhye.

Speaker 11 (18:27):
Mister Stephen a parent.

Speaker 13 (18:30):
The cause of death is multiple gunshot wound of the
chest and the various organs and causing a massive hemorrhae.
Boy Peek Procowski, the cause of death is stab wound
of the body and extremities and what extremities that's extremeties.

Speaker 11 (18:57):
And gunshot wound of back.

Speaker 13 (19:01):
And mister Jay sibling stab wounds out of the body
causing a penetration of the vital elegance and desouting massively
internal How much.

Speaker 11 (19:14):
With him? Are funny?

Speaker 3 (19:20):
They want to cause of death?

Speaker 12 (19:21):
Often you have some elim in a rough estimate as
to the time of death. We as you're all aware,
the telephone wires were cut at the house. We do
know that the phone was in operating condition at approximately
ten pm and was not any working condition at approximately

(19:41):
five thirty am.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
Is it your opinion times that one man could have approprayed.

Speaker 12 (19:47):
All there's anything as possible. We have no solid information
which will limit us to a single suspect.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
In some of the activities that we've doctor.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Have you deterrivened the three of the five victims were
going in different directions at the time of their death.

Speaker 13 (20:09):
We are have not been able to establish such traditional
activity and informations that gathered from the autopsy that have
been being analyzed at present time.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Would you say that only one.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Man that have committed these crimes more more.

Speaker 13 (20:25):
Than one, based on the autopsy findings, will not be
able to tell committed that. Uh, I would say it's
un very unlikely.

Speaker 19 (20:37):
I mean you have scuffling, Uh, circumstances that there was
a lot about scuffling or any sexual we're talking on
that type.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
No, not at all.

Speaker 13 (20:45):
No have died first, We have not been able to
establish for sure.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
You probably be weapons. No, we have no weapons in
custody of this time. Are you able to entertain move
the thoking? We're taking grids.

Speaker 13 (21:02):
Well number about as glos specimens have been taken and
at being analyzed and the results may be available in
a lot of days.

Speaker 20 (21:11):
Wonderful.

Speaker 18 (21:12):
And you give us that whether robs came in little
picture of a Mom's.

Speaker 12 (21:17):
True very hardly replaced there. No, I don't have any
I can't give you any information. There are a number
of aspects of this case, gentlemen, which I'm not going
to be in a position to discuss with the press
because they're an integral part of our investigation and we're
going to need some secrecy relative to the physical condition
of the house, the position and location of the various bodies,

(21:39):
which we have to keep away from the general public
in originally trying to be hindering our investigation.

Speaker 20 (21:45):
Yes, too, could you outline enough with what you can
tell us about the case thus far?

Speaker 12 (21:52):
Yes, I can give you a brief outline. Basically, you
have all of the information relative to the made uh,
the approximate time that she arrived at work, the fact
that she discovered that the crime had taken place. You
people in the news media have more information.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Really to the background of our of our victims.

Speaker 12 (22:11):
With the exception of Stephen Parent, and the department has
in its hands right now, we're.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Just getting into that part of the investigation.

Speaker 12 (22:20):
You're all aware that the telephone wires were cut which
lead into the house. As the doctors indicated on our
cause of death, there were multiple stab wounds.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Stephen Parent had been shot.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
It would appear that Parents was shot while trying to
escape when the hand break off and the vision on.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
The car and around the well.

Speaker 12 (22:38):
At the time that I arrived at the scene, the
car was in a drive position, the ignition was off
and the brake was not.

Speaker 20 (22:45):
Set or it established what the order they were killed.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
No, they got that out at all, Lieutenant.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Lieutenant, you've arrested.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
His nineteen year old house bolts. Yes, how serious it?
Suspects give us uh I'll tell you right now.

Speaker 12 (23:01):
At the present time, Garretson is taking a polygraph examination.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
He's been, He has legal console.

Speaker 12 (23:09):
With him, and depending the results of that polygraph examination,
we're really not in a position to go much further
as far as putting out anything which we have connecting
him with the crime.

Speaker 7 (23:21):
The victims that he was there because of.

Speaker 12 (23:24):
The proper Basically, the information which we have at the
present time is that he was a friend of Garretson's,
that he had no.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Relationship at all with the people in the front house.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
We're talking about Garrison sub House school.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to Steve
Parent What about Garrison House boy?

Speaker 9 (23:42):
Was it?

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yes?

Speaker 12 (23:43):
Completely, Actually the house is leased. The owner of the
property had hired Garretson to stay on the property to
watch this man's an animal over.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
There were several dogs, several cats.

Speaker 12 (23:56):
This was his prime purpose in life up there was
to care for these animals.

Speaker 21 (24:00):
The opponent of the egypty can know it.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Well, yeah, he knew them merely.

Speaker 12 (24:03):
From because they were on the same property. We have
no further with nothing to choose a detailed connection with
the people in the front house.

Speaker 20 (24:10):
As he continued to maintain this, yes, has he trought
you anything at all that he should believe it might not.

Speaker 12 (24:15):
Be a suspect eventually, well other than the fact that
he has flatly denied any participation in this, and he.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Has denied a anything more than a very very casual
relationship with our victims.

Speaker 20 (24:27):
Where should he say he was during the flying.

Speaker 12 (24:29):
Of the purdies in the guest house of the career
of the property and he heard.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Nothing, heard nothing, look much.

Speaker 19 (24:35):
Else the product.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
We have some inquiries out on an individual telephone.

Speaker 20 (24:42):
Mars was kind with somebody going out before.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Somebody lay gentlemen.

Speaker 12 (24:45):
I could speculate all day long on that, and we
have nothing until we get further into this. In our
prime lab people who have had a chance to examine
material which was removed from the telephone pot etctera.

Speaker 6 (24:57):
So the record of the Paul under the house of no.

Speaker 12 (25:01):
There was an attempt to make place a call from
the guest house at approximately fire thirty morning on the
telephoneized by Garretson.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
According to his statement, why did you want to call
beg Garden?

Speaker 22 (25:11):
Why did you try to call?

Speaker 12 (25:12):
He didn't try to call, try to use his.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Can you give us any potails on the individual that
you are now acquiring the club?

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Were any other victims known to you or any.

Speaker 12 (25:24):
Of the intelligence bureaus and arcotics as being arcottage users
or being involved.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
With my gout?

Speaker 12 (25:29):
We have made a superficial check along those lines and
we find no connections.

Speaker 9 (25:33):
All right, And here is Roman Polanski, who is a
literal child rapist. I don't want to like excuse him
of this, but this is him talking about Charantates murder
years later, so many things I'd love it.

Speaker 8 (25:50):
To talk to you about, and don't be shot.

Speaker 23 (25:55):
Do you hate certain members of the press for the
way the you were treated after your wife's murder?

Speaker 13 (26:02):
Well, yes, to be honest, I do, but I wouldn't
call it a hatred. Now it's somehow evolved to just
indifference and I simply don't read it and try to
avoid it.

Speaker 23 (26:12):
Yeah, I just wondered, is there any way I don't
know what you think people deserve to know or how
much business people have knowing about I think like the
what's called the.

Speaker 8 (26:23):
Share and take case a lot of other victims.

Speaker 23 (26:26):
Is there anything good that has been written about it?
I know this sounds silly, but I mean, is there
a book or is there anything that you would recommend
people who wanted?

Speaker 13 (26:33):
Well, I just don't read. I'm sorry, I don't read
for my own good. And it's possible that it would
be silly of me to say that absolutely everything written
by the press it's obnoxious.

Speaker 11 (26:43):
This is impossible.

Speaker 13 (26:45):
I mean, I philosophically oriented this way that I know
that I always mutants, you know, the principle of life
and evolution, So there must be some flukes. But in
general I despise the press tremendously for its inaccuracy, for irresponsibility,
and for its often even deliberate cruelty. And all this

(27:07):
it's for lucrative purposes.

Speaker 23 (27:09):
It's al's impossible to run into anyone in the movie
community who doesn't claim to have some inside knowledge of
the event, you know what I mean, anytime the subject
comes up, there people all claim they have they know
something that never came out in the papers, and it's
never the same thing, it's always something else. Oh yeah, well,
there's the way people just end on an event like that.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
It's sort of.

Speaker 11 (27:28):
Strange, but this is part of human nature. I mean,
I was accused of being one of.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
The complices, you know.

Speaker 11 (27:33):
Yeah, even people who I thought were well willing to
But it was like a great.

Speaker 13 (27:43):
Psychological tests, great psychoanalysis. I could see that everybody saw
it from his angle, you know, his point of view,
and was looking for the culprits in the area which
would be somehow related to the way he was thinking.

Speaker 11 (27:57):
You know what I mean. I don't want to be
more specific about him.

Speaker 23 (28:00):
Okay, yeah, I think I do the same the time
you might never work again, but the same that you
could never go into public again.

Speaker 11 (28:08):
Yeah, there was. It lasted for a very long time.

Speaker 13 (28:11):
It lasted for for good eight months, I would think,
and then when I started working again, I didn't want
to do anything like this show, for example, or any interviews. Somehow,
under the pressure of the people who gave the money
for the film and took a great risk because it
cost several million dollars three million dollars.

Speaker 11 (28:31):
Let's be specific.

Speaker 13 (28:33):
I for that sake, I thought, I have to do it,
and I'm doing the things, but I would rather feel
better if I did not have to talk and to
be part of the public life. I was desiring it
when I was young, you know, when I was in
the film school, and later, I mean it was appealing
to me.

Speaker 8 (28:48):
I wanted pretty part of it.

Speaker 11 (28:50):
Yeah, I wanted it. I wanted it very much.

Speaker 13 (28:52):
It was it was part of this history of cinema
which I was I learned, you know, of Hollywood was different.

Speaker 11 (29:01):
Hey, can I take this off? I wouldn't be.

Speaker 8 (29:02):
Better, certainly. No, even if it is you.

Speaker 23 (29:04):
Can about my child, that would be dubious taste. Yeah,
But I just wondered if at a time like that,
you just felt I could never go back to work.

Speaker 8 (29:13):
I can never see.

Speaker 11 (29:15):
Right after that, everybody was saying go back to work.
And I was in the middle of a film, I
mean not of shooting.

Speaker 13 (29:19):
But right in the middle of preparation of a film
called The Day of the Dolphin, and everybody is saying work,
work as the best medicine. And I remember talking to
Stanley Kilberg on the telephone.

Speaker 11 (29:32):
He was the only person who.

Speaker 13 (29:33):
Said, I'm sure everybody tells you go to work. I said,
it's right, says, I know you can't work, so why
times you just go away, you know, do some sports
or something and there will be a moment where you
feel like getting out of the room.

Speaker 11 (29:43):
Incredible, I remember that.

Speaker 8 (29:44):
Don't work right now?

Speaker 11 (29:45):
That's right, he says. He says, there will be a
moment when you will.

Speaker 13 (29:49):
You know, he's very interested in all us, in everything,
like I am, by the way, and he was.

Speaker 11 (29:54):
We spent endless hours talking was I could see that
he was trying to get my feelings.

Speaker 13 (29:57):
And I don't blame him for it. You know, it's
I'm thought of being a film director, etcetera.

Speaker 11 (30:01):
But he's very wise. Mans. There's a time for message.

Speaker 8 (30:05):
How do you know this? You didn't even look up.
He saw the light going before we do it. I
was just gonna say.

Speaker 23 (30:10):
I thought I thought you'd give a very good answer
when people said how on earth could you do a
bloody drama like Macbeth after what you went through? But
you pointed out that anything you did they would have
said it was absurd. I mean, if you've done a comedy,
they just said, how could do a comedy after all.

Speaker 13 (30:21):
That's precisely that's how this is, how everything is related
to your life, and how.

Speaker 11 (30:25):
That's how people see it. And people see this film
more bloody than it really is.

Speaker 13 (30:28):
I mean, it's much less less violent than any average
film that you see on the screen, now, not the average,
but then the violent films, so called violent film much less.

Speaker 11 (30:39):
It's as much as we're gonna expect from mac Beth.

Speaker 8 (30:41):
That's about all really anxious to see it. Well one
of these days too. It it's nearby they played.

Speaker 10 (30:47):
With so he doesn't sound terribly torn up.

Speaker 9 (30:54):
And this is some news coverage of when the Manson
family is arrested from NBC News of called.

Speaker 18 (31:02):
Religious cult where the leader they called Jesus has had
three of its followers arrested in the investigation of the
murder of Sharon Tate and six others. Those arrested are
two women and one man, and the Los Ange of
this Police said they would ask murder indictments against several others.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Five women are being held as material witnesses.

Speaker 15 (31:21):
This is where they lived among the stables, barns, and puny.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Buildings of an old run down.

Speaker 15 (31:26):
Movie location twenty miles from Los Angeles. They called themselves
the family. They came and went, and the number buried
from twenty to thirty. Police said they were a pseudo
religious cult. People who worked on the ranch said they
were heavy users of drugs.

Speaker 16 (31:41):
They were constantly taking gulf of sewing.

Speaker 13 (31:43):
Cars and just they just sit around all.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
Day in key and that's about it. And we went
around cloaking garbage and had that for dinner and went
to the store once.

Speaker 11 (31:51):
In a while, and that was about it.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
They just left and got loaded.

Speaker 15 (31:55):
The family left the caves that have been living in
on the Spawn movie Wrench in the nearly fall after
the tape murder. Later police waited the ranch and found
stolen cars. The family set up another camp in the
desert near Death Valley. Five members are now in jail
on other charges in the desert town of Independence. The
family's leader, Charles Manson, is jailed here. It is expected
that he will be charged in the tape murders. People

(32:16):
who lived with Manson on the ranch and in the
desert denied that they were a violent group.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
Its thank of the whole thing is that we were
always to have those clients.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
He's a good person. A person came out peace.

Speaker 20 (32:34):
Was he out there all the time?

Speaker 12 (32:35):
I wanted to know, you know, he kicked out over
mountain just here.

Speaker 9 (32:40):
You just wonder that. And this is a follow up
report with the followers.

Speaker 6 (32:47):
Also I was living here then. We'll never forget that week.
In southern Californians were terrified by the news of what
happened of his drive away that Friday night. Who could
have done this, we wondered, and why? The most frightening
question was who would be next? Veteran police officers were
shaken by what they found in the Posh Benedict Canyon home.
The bodies had been shot, stabbed, bludgeoned, and savagely mutilated.

(33:12):
Twenty six year old actress Sharon Tate was eight and
a half months pregnant. Among Tate's murdered house guests were
noted hairstylists Jay Sebert, coffee heiress Abigail Folder, and her
Polish boyfriend. Voided Frankowski on the walls written in blood
the words death to pigs and helter skelter. Stephen Parent,
a friend of the caretaker, was killed as he tried

(33:33):
to drive.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Away in his car.

Speaker 6 (33:35):
Then the next night it happened again. Lino LaBianca, the
owner of a supermarket chain, and his wife Rosemary, were
brutally murdered in their home.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
In the Los Pheles area.

Speaker 6 (33:44):
The bloody weakend of murder stunned the nation and gripped
Los Angeles with fear. Two months later, in Ingno County,
more than two hundred miles north of Los Angeles, two
young girls appeared in the side of a road, flagged
down sheriff's deputies and asked for help to get away
from what they called.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
The Manson family.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
Deputies rated the Barker Ranch in a remote area near the.

Speaker 8 (34:06):
Death Valley National Monument.

Speaker 6 (34:08):
Two dozen people living as hippies were taken into custody
and questioned. Finally, on December first, after eight thousand, seven
hundred and fifty hours of police work, Chief Ed Davis
announced the case was solved.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
One of the most.

Speaker 6 (34:23):
Bizarre crimes in history became even more sold. The killers
were young women from middle class families, and there was
Charles Watson, supposedly an All American boy from Texas. The
leader of the family of murderers was a thirty four
year old ex khan named Charles Manson, a kind of

(34:43):
guru who looked like a peace loving hippie, but idolized
Adolf Hitler.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
The motives for the murders.

Speaker 6 (34:50):
He ordered to touch off a black white race war,
as he called it, helter skelter, after which Manson's family
could take over the world.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
Charlie command, It is not command anybody to do anything.

Speaker 19 (35:01):
Can either.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
Are you guilty of plotting any murders?

Speaker 20 (35:03):
Are guilty?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Chicken?

Speaker 4 (35:04):
Once any would be no.

Speaker 20 (35:06):
No, You're absolutely understood to have any conspiracy to commit
murder or telling anyone to commit murder or planning it, I'll.

Speaker 8 (35:12):
Be guilty to the Indians.

Speaker 6 (35:13):
Stephen Kerrey was one of the prosecutors in the nine
month trial. Over the last twenty years, he has appeared
at thirty eight parole hearings for the five Manson family members.

Speaker 13 (35:23):
They tried once to attempt to destroy our society.

Speaker 6 (35:25):
They should never again have another chance.

Speaker 8 (35:28):
Maybe I should have.

Speaker 20 (35:29):
Killed four or five hundred people. Then I would have
felt better, okay, when I felt like I'm.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Red in a society something.

Speaker 13 (35:35):
You know, if I wanted to kill somebody, I'd check
this book and beat you to death with it, and
I wouldn't feel a thing.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
It'd be just like walking to the drug store.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
He is a very, very dangerous man.

Speaker 13 (35:45):
He's probably the best advertisement for the death penalty that
we have because.

Speaker 6 (35:49):
As long as that man is alive, he has the
ability to control and influence other people, and he is
a great danger.

Speaker 24 (35:56):
Are you mad?

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Do you feel like Monsabage? You can give the Babin
titles Baby to rive.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
Au thenks prop.

Speaker 24 (36:06):
In a scene described by one investigators reminiscent of a
weird religious right, five persons, including actress Sharon Tape, were
found dead at the home of Miss Tape and her husband.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
Screen director Roman Polanski.

Speaker 24 (36:16):
Miss Tape, who starred in Valley of the Dolls, was
eight months pregnant and was found in a bikini type
nightgown with a rope around her neck attached to the
body of a man. Among the other victims were Hollywood
hair stylist Jay c Bring and coffee heiress Abigail Folger.
Authorities would allow no one in an unofficial capacity inside
the posh two hundred thousand dollars home in the hills
overlooking Los Angeles. Bogyansky, who directed Rosemary's Baby and other

(36:37):
films of suspense, reportedly is in Europe. One of the
first officers on the scene. Police Stargeant Stanley Conrad, well,
at the scene.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
We had one.

Speaker 20 (36:45):
Body in a vehicle near the gate, a man and
a woman in the main room, and a man and
a woman on the lawn in front.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Of the house.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
All he says, by what form he.

Speaker 11 (36:58):
Follow up news?

Speaker 10 (37:00):
There was just so much of it.

Speaker 6 (37:02):
Sure of the time.

Speaker 20 (37:03):
Was the area in disarray or there were signs of
a struggle in the main house and also in the
guesthouse in the rear.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Whether a television set going or radio.

Speaker 20 (37:13):
Rowing or no, there's no TV going, the radio is
not going.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
The lights were on.

Speaker 20 (37:18):
The one suspect was arrested in the career house. The
guest house.

Speaker 24 (37:22):
Get into custody by officers was the homes nineteen year
old caretaker, William Garrettson.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
He was arrested on suspicion of murder.

Speaker 24 (37:28):
When police arrived, they found the telephones and electricity lines cut.
The bodies had been dead about twelve hours. They were
discovered this morning by a maid who ran screaming to neighbors.
One officer summed up the murders when he said, in
all my years, I have never seen anything like this before.

Speaker 9 (37:44):
These are some of the reasons I have a really
hard time when anyone who was involved in the Tate
La Bianca murders goes up for parole, because as much
as I believe in rehabilitation, and as much as I
understand that they were teenagers and highly influenced, how do
you rehabilitate from that? Shouldn't you want to spend the

(38:05):
rest of your life in prison? Shouldn't you want to
die after that? I mean, it's hard for me, and
I hope they don't get out. Honestly, I know that
that's an unpopular opinion at this point, but I mean that,
and that was the worst of it, but it's definitely
not the last of it.

Speaker 10 (38:26):
Let's talk a little bit about the Dakota.

Speaker 9 (38:29):
This is where the geography of horror gets even more uncanny.
Rosemary's Baby's exterior shots were from the Dakota, a Gothic
apartment building on Manhattan's Upper West Side. In the movie,
it's called the Bramford. In real life, it's the same
building where on December eighth, nineteen eighty, John Lennon would
be shot and killed just outside the entrance. The Beatles

(38:53):
wrote Helter Skelter. Manson used it as his manifesto. Sharon
Date died under its shadow. Twelve years later, John Lennon,
author of Imagined and a friend of mio'farroh, was murdered
at the building where Rosemary birthed the devil. You don't
have to be leaven curses to feel something from that.

(39:17):
What's eerie about all of this is that it isn't
just coincidences. It's how perfectly it mirrors the story of
Rosemary's Baby. A young pregnant woman portrayed by the man
who should protect her, a hidden call to making decisions
about her body, a culture obsessed with apocalypse and prophecy.
The real life version had no devil. I mean, I

(39:39):
don't know about that, just men with knives, women with guns, and.

Speaker 10 (39:44):
A taste for power.

Speaker 9 (39:45):
When I say that Rosemary's Baby is cursed, I don't
want you to think I'm talking about Anton Levy or Satanism,
because I don't think this curse is the devil.

Speaker 10 (39:57):
I think it's us. I think it's huge.

Speaker 9 (40:00):
I think it's the violence that follows us even into
the safest, most domestic spaces. And we can't talk about
the curse of Rosemary's Baby without talking about this soundtrack.
That lallaby, that soft breathy la la la over an
eerie orchestral drone. It's kind of the sound of innocence curdling.

(40:23):
The composer behind the haunting melody was Christophe Comita, a
Polish jazz musician and a longtime collaborator of Roman Polanski.
He'd scored Knife in the Water and called a sack,
but Rosemary's Baby was different. Kamita didn't just compose the
sound track, he helped create the.

Speaker 10 (40:42):
Mood of the film.

Speaker 9 (40:44):
The melody wasn't written to scare you. It was written
to lull you into trusting it and then betray you
all the same. The track itself is called Lullaby, and yes,
those delicate vocals are sung by Mia Farrow herself. It's gore,
it's maternal, and it's terrifying because you know what she's

(41:04):
rocking to sleep. This is how the plot leads into reality.
In the novel, one of the first signs that something
is wrong is when Rosemary's friend Hutch, who's been trying
to warn her, falls mysteriously ill.

Speaker 10 (41:17):
He slips into.

Speaker 9 (41:18):
A coma after a confrontation with the neighbors, and later dies.
His death is explained away as natural, but nothing about
it feels natural. That plot point felt random in the book,
a little too convenient until it happened in real life.
It's similar in the movie. He does become sick and
go into a brief coma, but it's much longer in

(41:41):
the book. Shortly after Rosemary's Baby was completed, Comita fell
down a cliff during a party in la Some say
he was pushed, others say it was just a freak accident.
But what happened afterward He fell into a coma for
four months, and then he died, just like Hutch, just
like this story predicted, just like Polanski had recorded it.

(42:06):
This wasn't a tabloid tragedy. It was barely reported in
the States, but among the cast and crew it was
the first real whisper that the story had followed them home.
It wasn't a car crash, not a heart attack. This
was a man who wrote music for a film about
Satan and then was pushed off a hill and left
to dream in a coma until he died. You don't

(42:29):
have to believe in the curse, but all of it
just starts to feel eerie the time the final credits
of Rosemary's Baby rolled in nineteen sixty eight, something had changed,
not just in film, but in the collective, in the
collective subconscious, in people's minds. It wasn't a slasher, it

(42:50):
wasn't a ghost story. It was a commentary. It was
a quiet descent into madness, hidden in a rent controlled
New York apartment with stained glass cabinets and a nice
neighbor who might feed you devil tea and evil protein shakes.
And for a lot of people that was too real
to be fiction. Now let's talk a little bit more

(43:13):
about Anton Leavey. No, Anton LaVey did not play the
devil in Rosemary's Baby. The rumor is circulated for decades.
It's not true, But the fact that people believe it,
that's more interesting than if it were. One thing that
I still couldnt confirm, even after doing all of this research,
was if he was a consultant on the film. So

(43:35):
many people say that he was, and so many people
say that it's a rumor. LaVey had founded the Church
of Satan in San Francisco just two years earlier, in
nineteen sixty six, the same year Levin began writing the book,
The cultural climate was already shifting, religion was slipping, the
occult was rising, and Rosemary's baby walked in like a prophecy,

(43:57):
dressed in maud maternity where suddenly Satan wasn't just an
abstract boogeyman. He had an address, he had a coven,
he had a baby. Rosemary's Baby predated the Satanic panic
by more than a decade, but it definitely helped pave
the way for it. Before daycares were accused of ritual abuse,

(44:19):
before the West Memphis Three, before the Exorcist made people
vomit in theaters, before goth kids were treated like death cults,
there was Rosemary and she was being tormented by Satanists,
Satanists who don't look how we would imagine Satanists, but
like PTA members.

Speaker 10 (44:41):
This wasn't fear of the devil.

Speaker 9 (44:43):
It was feared that the devil looked like your neighbor,
or your doctor, or your husband, who may make a
pact with Satan in order to boost his acting career.
This idea of men putting women aside to get ahead
kind of held on. Mia Farrow would marry Woody Allen,

(45:05):
who would then marry their.

Speaker 10 (45:07):
Daughter that they had adopted.

Speaker 9 (45:10):
So I mean that is fucked up, like I don't
know how Woody Allen and get gets a free pass.
Woody Allen, who molested his daughter, who tormented his ex
wife and then marries his adopted daughter and still gets

(45:31):
movies and chums around with Scarred.

Speaker 10 (45:35):
Joe and just gets this.

Speaker 9 (45:40):
I mean, I'm not gonna say Polanski's any better, but
I think he's a much better filmmaker. If nothing, if
nothing else, there's something we love, need even about believing
some films are cursed, that art can be too powerful,
that certain stories go too far. We've seen it before,

(46:03):
and we'll cover all of these later on this month.
The Exorcist, which had its share of deaths and on
set fires and injuries, Poltergeist featuring real skeletons and seeing
multiple cast members die young, the Omen being plugged by
lightning strikes, plane crashes, and zookeepers mauled by lions, and

(46:25):
in each case people said, it's the devil, it's evil.
The movie invited it in. But let's be honest. The
devil doesn't need an invitation. Evil doesn't need to knock.
The curse isn't on the film stock, it's on the culture.
Let's pull back a bit. At its core, Rosemary's Baby

(46:47):
is about a woman losing control of her own body,
a man making a deal without her consent, a system
that insists everything is fine, even as it eats her alive.
It's about being disbelieved, being trade and then being forced
to love the thing that broke you. What's scarier than that,
what's realer than that? Maybe that's the real curse. I

(47:11):
don't think the curse of Rosemary's Baby comes from the devil.
I think it comes from secrets, from what happens when
we're told not to ask questions, from what gets hidden
in plain sight, behind locked doors, behind good intentions, behind God.
In spite of everything I've told you today, I still
love this movie. I think that it is such well

(47:33):
done horror. It makes me so uneasy no matter how
many times I see it. It's something where you can
see yourself in the story as different people, as one
of the women moving into this apartment building, and having
these neighbors come take care of you, as someone being

(47:55):
isolated from your friend group every time there's we get
to the scene in the movie where Rosemary throws a
little party. She says she's not inviting anyone from the apartment.
She's only inviting her own friends, and when they see
her she they're shocked. She's pregnant, and she's gotten thinner
and thinner and thinner. She looks ill, and they close

(48:18):
the men out of the room. They sit in a
circle and talk, and it kind of seems like there's
this moment where she could get away, where it.

Speaker 10 (48:28):
Could somehow changed.

Speaker 9 (48:29):
Even though she's literally been raped by the devil and
is pregnant with his baby, even though now the year
is literally one, there's still.

Speaker 10 (48:40):
That hope that somehow.

Speaker 9 (48:42):
This could have a different ending, that this could be
a different story. It doesn't end up being that way,
but she does accept being his mother, and and I
guess that's something it's more than a lot of people
in the story got to do. We're gonna end with

(49:03):
another clip from the Cursed Movies that just seemed too
upsetting to include in the middle despite the details I
told you, But this is from Curse Movies Rosemary's Baby,
and it includes some members of the Manson family and
their descriptions of what happened that night.

Speaker 24 (49:25):
One investigator is reminiscent of a weird religious life. Five persons,
including actress Sharon Tape were found at the home of
Mistake and her.

Speaker 8 (49:31):
Husband, screen director Roman Toolotsky.

Speaker 24 (49:34):
The house that had known a number of movie star
tenants suddenly became a scene more tragic than.

Speaker 9 (49:38):
Any horror and the house on Coelo Drive was torn
down in nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 10 (49:45):
It's not called Coello Drive anymore.

Speaker 9 (49:48):
It's spelled like Cello, but they did change the name
of the street.

Speaker 10 (49:52):
It's in Benedict Canyon, and.

Speaker 9 (49:55):
This is the same road where Superman shot himself, where
Robert Durst the Jinks, where a lot of those murders happened.
So Bedeniict Canyon itself, I mean Charros's husband gets kills
himself across the street. There's just incident after incident after

(50:18):
incident of things that happen there. It's at the bottom
is the Belvally Hills Hotel. I mean just but then
it's also Hollywood. Over sixty years, a lot is bound
to happen, right. It all can't be a curse, can it.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
We have a weird ouside.

Speaker 12 (50:39):
We're trying to piece the thing together with what small
amount of physical evidence we have, and anything that I
tell you at this point would be mere speculating, and
I'm not.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
Gonna speculating, okay, and four other when lansky and is
shot stay but right back.

Speaker 22 (50:54):
In La he saw the police investigation is going nowhere.
As a result, he's thought it too undertake some of
his zoon unofficial detective work.

Speaker 5 (51:05):
He suspected everybody. And Roman called my dad to his bungalow,
and Dad came home. He said, he can mean, you
write the word pig over and over again.

Speaker 11 (51:14):
My dad never.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
Understood why Roman asked him to do that, and he
had my father's handwriting analyzed to see the match the
pig that was written on the walls.

Speaker 11 (51:24):
I was shocked.

Speaker 14 (51:26):
Tommy Thompson, the entertainment editor of Life and a friend
of Romans and Romans said, I need a photographer to
go up for the house to photograph it for clues.
The psychic Peter Hurricos, he was a psychic to the stars.

Speaker 23 (51:39):
Whatever that means, clues for the psychic to then analyze your.

Speaker 14 (51:43):
Photo exactly, look at my photos and get psychic vibrations
and find out.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Who the murderer was. Why were you called in on
this case?

Speaker 24 (51:50):
A lot of people are somewhat skeptical of mystics.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
And clare voyant.

Speaker 9 (51:54):
I'm not surprised that psychics were called in My family
calls in psychics when one dies. And this is the
late sixties and we do this now in the twenty twenties.

Speaker 13 (52:08):
Psych I have proven enough and I think any offesial
challenges madiu post and actually he's lapropn.

Speaker 6 (52:14):
I want to understand how Roman can put this trust
in the psychic.

Speaker 14 (52:18):
Because he's Hollywood man psychic. We went up there and
Roman was already there.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (52:30):
I asked him what am I going to do when
he told me just photograph everything I'm looking at, which
I did.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
I mean one of the pictures of Iconic, it's of
Roman sitting on a chair in front of the open
door to his house with a word pig written in blood.

Speaker 9 (52:45):
But I can't believe that this wasn't like closed as
a crime scene.

Speaker 14 (52:50):
There's a psyche solving the crime, so I don't know
what he's looking for.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
This blood was so thick it was like jello in
the living room. The smell is horrible. It's like a slaughterhouse,
that's what it smelled like.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
The psychic was kind of a conoitist Julian to polaroids
while he was doing a shooting. Herpos sold the pictures
to one of the tabloids, the Polaroids.

Speaker 14 (53:18):
The psychic took to sell to the hoty a citizen
used and then on Hollywood.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
What else is you going to do?

Speaker 17 (53:27):
When we were in the desert money, the girls told
me specifically their part in the murderers when Susan was.

Speaker 9 (53:39):
This is a woman who was fourteen when she was
in the Manson family, and she was known as snake.

Speaker 17 (53:47):
Helling Sharon or helping kill her, and Sharon was begging
for the life of her baby. Susan told me that
she thought about cutting the baby out and rescuing the baby.
What stuck with me even more than the details, and
the details were pretty bad, was the way in which.

Speaker 11 (54:06):
They told it.

Speaker 17 (54:07):
They told that they were almost gleeful about what they
had done for Charlie.

Speaker 8 (54:12):
I want to take the children to the desert.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Your children.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
There's no reason why your children should die or take
them to the desert.

Speaker 4 (54:18):
Did you give them to us?

Speaker 17 (54:20):
I am not aware of the family talking about Rosemary's
baby Polansky, but I can see how people could compare
and contrast Rosemary's baby and this woman giving birth to
a child that was all engineered by a family for
this baby them to become the.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Child of the devil.

Speaker 14 (54:40):
The only time he reacted when he was looking at
pictures of Sharon in the bedroom, when he started crying.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
That was the only time I saw him react.

Speaker 8 (54:50):
Did he ever tell you to stop?

Speaker 4 (54:52):
No? But man, I'm telling you, I felt that.

Speaker 11 (54:55):
You felt like stopping.

Speaker 14 (54:57):
I felt very bad. And that is saw a scene
I didn't want to be around. It was a grave
rob or.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
It was awful. But you know, what do you do?
You are working?

Speaker 14 (55:09):
And then the shot at the night stand in their
bedroom and there's this wedding photo of Sharon and Roman
and the princess phone would lack lapd fingerprint, powder, roll
over it.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
And shot just sums up the whole thing.

Speaker 19 (55:23):
People often ask how would you describe evil, and they
will always say Adolf Hitler, and they will always.

Speaker 8 (55:31):
Say Charles Manson.

Speaker 19 (55:32):
And I think it's fascinating that Polanski's fan will be
killed the concentration camp as a direct result of Adolf Hitler,
and his wife and friends were murdered as a direct
result of Charles Manson.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
That's wild.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
There's something there that I can't explain.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
There were people out there who believe that what happened
to Sharon and to Roman was karmak retribution for kind
of exploiting.

Speaker 10 (55:53):
Isn't that insane?

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Though?

Speaker 10 (55:54):
Could it really?

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Like?

Speaker 9 (55:55):
How is that Sharon tates karma?

Speaker 10 (55:57):
How could that be her karma?

Speaker 9 (56:00):
A lot of her friends did say she was obsessed
with this book and this story and believed in omens
and prophecies and warnings. But those are all things that
come out afterward. And I mean a lot of us
believe in those kind of things.

Speaker 10 (56:14):
I'm super superstitious myself.

Speaker 9 (56:17):
But does that mean that I would deserve to be murdered?
Some of the people who leave reviews for this show
seem to think so.

Speaker 10 (56:28):
But jokes aside, how could it be karmic retribution?

Speaker 18 (56:33):
What?

Speaker 10 (56:33):
What did she do? What did Abigail Folger do? What
did j c. Bring do?

Speaker 9 (56:38):
What did Stephen parent do? What did what did any
of them do? That would be what did Leo and
Tapian the Labiancas do, like Leo and Rosemary. I'm getting
I'm getting flustered.

Speaker 10 (56:55):
This is there's a couple minutes left.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Over this bark side with Rosemary's baby.

Speaker 19 (57:00):
They were actually implying that it was the victim's own
bad behavior that caused their murders. Jack Nicholson was friends
with Sharon rom and said that Sharon had the unfortunate
circumstance of being murdered twice, once by her actual killers
and the next time by the press.

Speaker 10 (57:15):
And even that book we talked about, Helter Skelter.

Speaker 9 (57:18):
That book scared me so much, but so much of
it is salacious bullshit, So much of it shouldn't have
been written. I mean, I think a lot of the
satanic panic happened not because of these murders, but Helter Skelter.
The retelling by the prosecutor the cello was RDI.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
Bross the way. I think that's it. Thanks, I think, yeah,
that's it. In a sign here, Yeah, there's see. Yeah,
that's it.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
This is new.

Speaker 4 (57:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (57:50):
When I came here, there was several police cars here,
and there was a Telepomee comany alignment at the top
of my pull repairing the cut wire.

Speaker 4 (57:59):
I still didn't even know what happened. You went the.

Speaker 14 (58:01):
Overload, shut your turn right. Yeah, that's where the Falinski
house was. It was a tiny little red shingle place, and.

Speaker 9 (58:10):
Yeah, they tore it down way too late.

Speaker 10 (58:12):
I don't know why they waited till nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
This is La excess.

Speaker 9 (58:17):
I also don't know who the hell would want to
rebuild their house on the same lot.

Speaker 10 (58:22):
Fucking LA's Psycho pass to.

Speaker 14 (58:25):
The instagree at the end of the name of Rosemary's Baby,
Mia Farrow.

Speaker 5 (58:32):
Bought my father a beautiful humidor where you keep cigars
in top of the cover.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
It was a fourteen care.

Speaker 5 (58:39):
Cold devil with rudy eyes and it said two bill
lovea And it ended up in a storage unit. My
husband was in the storage unit. He called me, this
is what I do with that?

Speaker 4 (58:49):
I'm like, you do nothing, just live in that storage unit.

Speaker 5 (58:52):
I didn't want anything to do with it because it
represented bad and even though we might not completely believe
in it, we were too afraid not to.

Speaker 10 (59:02):
And isn't that all of it.

Speaker 9 (59:03):
Even if you don't completely believe in it, isn't there
still a fear that some of it could be true?
I know there definitely is for me.

Speaker 10 (59:13):
That's why I've included so.

Speaker 9 (59:14):
Many cursed movies in my Halloween Month episode series. I
think other than poulterized this one is definitely the hardest,
if not the hardest, so I did. There was part
of me that did just want to get the month
over with on this. I would eventually like to do

(59:36):
a full deep dive series on the Tate La Bianca
murders and the Manson family because it's something that could
easily be a twelve part series.

Speaker 10 (59:47):
Twenty minutes doesn't.

Speaker 9 (59:48):
Do it justice, but it's also just really really hard
to stomach.

Speaker 10 (59:55):
But I do think that this is that kind of
blur of horror, of real life horror.

Speaker 9 (01:00:00):
That happens of stories that are made up.

Speaker 10 (01:00:05):
Iral Levin.

Speaker 9 (01:00:07):
His wife divorced him after the release, and he went
on to write The Stepford Wives, So there really are
just layers and layers and layers to this. There's something
I love about a mix of truth and urban legends,
and we'll talk about that more tomorrow because we're covering

(01:00:29):
abandoned menst mental institutions, Cropsy who was an urban legend
himself until he turned.

Speaker 10 (01:00:37):
Out to be real.

Speaker 9 (01:00:39):
The willow Brook School State Asylum, just another another truth
meets fiction meets rumors that has this deep, deep reality
in it. It's not a curse, but there's murder and

(01:01:00):
there's definitely evil. Have you watched Rosemary's Baby. Have you
watched the prequel film, the one with Julia Garner. I
really liked it. This was a rough one. This was
a rough one. They won't all be this dark. We

(01:01:20):
have some stuff like the moth Man coming up, haunted places,
things that are a bit lighter, the unsolved mysteries, the
TV show scary stories to tell in the dark. Are
you afraid of the dark? Nineties Halloween TV shows? But

(01:01:40):
there's also going to be some other heavy hitters that
I'm doing this month. I have a John Wayne Gacy episode,
a Jeffrey Dahmer episode, the Zodiac Killer Ted Bundy. I
think those are all my serial killers. Oh no, also
have Richard Chase, the Vampire of Sacramento. But I tried
to put in some life ones too. Also doing an

(01:02:02):
episode on why we like being scared? Maybe like isn't
the right word, but there is a comfort of when
everything is horrifying, to feel like you can kind of
control when the horror happens to you.

Speaker 10 (01:02:16):
Nobody likes to be scared when they're being.

Speaker 9 (01:02:19):
Terrorized, But if you're sitting back and watching something or
hearing a story that feels that feels really different. So
this was a rough one. I still really do love
this movie. I still really do hate Roman Polanski. He
did rape a thirteen year old girl. He's not allowed

(01:02:40):
to come back into the country. But the cinematography of
this film, the colors, the writing, It's Rosemary's Baby has always.

Speaker 10 (01:02:53):
Stuck with me.

Speaker 9 (01:02:54):
Maybe it's stuck with you too. Thank you so much
for listening to another episode of Broad's next Door. Thank

(01:03:15):
you so much for listening to another episode of Broad's
next Door, the first in our Halloween series.

Speaker 10 (01:03:23):
I have a very.

Speaker 9 (01:03:24):
Ambitious month planned out. I have horrible cramps right now,
so I'm having a hard time getting through this, and
I was really nervous about this episode. So I hope
I did an okay job. It was a hard one
to do because there's just so many elements to manage
in this story. But if you enjoyed this episode, or

(01:03:45):
if you enjoy this show, please like great review, leave
five stars.

Speaker 10 (01:03:50):
It really really helps me out.

Speaker 9 (01:03:56):
Yeah, we have Cropsy tomorrow, then we have found footage
on Friday. We have lots of stuff coming up for
this month. I have thirty one outlines for episodes, so
we're gonna see if we can do thirty one episodes
for the thirty one days of October. Not making any

(01:04:16):
guarantees because once again, I am a one woman show.
Everything is researched, edited, written, recorded, published social.

Speaker 10 (01:04:27):
Media by me.

Speaker 9 (01:04:28):
I don't have anyone helping me out with that, which
can make it really difficult, but I'm doing my best.
I'm still working on figuring out video episodes. Adding the
video element is so much harder than I thought it
would be because then it gets really hard to add
in like any kind of clips or do anything like that,

(01:04:51):
which I would like to do episodes with less clips,
but you don't need to hear every single personal problem
I have. Hopefully, I'm going to take the first week
of November off, so I'll be back in Kansas City
and just kind of want to mess around a little
bit and take a break after this month. But we'll

(01:05:11):
see how this month. We'll see how this month goes.
I have another three weeks in Portland before that, so
definitely going to be doing a lot of recording, a
lot of posting, a lot of posting on social media. Still,
my Facebook's kind of been blowing up. For anyone who's
still on Facebook of over there at Danielliscreama, also on

(01:05:35):
Instagram at Danielloscreama and Broad's next to the Door.

Speaker 10 (01:05:41):
I'm on TikTok too.

Speaker 9 (01:05:42):
I have like maybe three hundred followers on there TikTok
just you know, I feel too.

Speaker 10 (01:05:48):
Old for it.

Speaker 9 (01:05:49):
I know there's no age limit and there are older
creators on it, but when I use it, I feel
older than the dawn of time.

Speaker 10 (01:05:57):
So yeah, you.

Speaker 9 (01:06:01):
Can message me online on any social media stuff. You
can email me at Daniella scream at gmail dot com,
at Broad'snextdoor at gmail dot com, or at Broad's nextdoor
dot com. I love getting your messages. I would love
to hear your scary stories, so I could do a
listener compilation at some point this month as well. So

(01:06:25):
if you're into that, write to me, send me voice
notes online, do all of all of the things. I
love hearing from you. Even when you're mad at me,
don't be mad at me. Please don't be mad at me.
If you are, I'm sorry and I love you very
much and I will talk to you tomorrow.

Speaker 10 (01:06:47):
Stay safe, don't.

Speaker 21 (01:06:48):
Get cursed to be very suspicious if your actor husband,
if he suddenly takes off in success and your neighbors
are giving you strange.

Speaker 10 (01:06:59):
Ambulance to wear and making you drink.

Speaker 9 (01:07:04):
Weird protein shakes. Stick to your regular doctor. Don't isolate
yourself from your friends. Always reach out to people, and
if you have nobody to reach out to.

Speaker 10 (01:07:15):
You can always reach out to me. And I mean
that I love you. Goodbye,