August 28, 2025 • 48 mins
Put on a cozy sweater, grab a slice of cherry pie and pour a damn fine cup of coffee because today we’re taking a trip back to Twin Peaks, as we gain a broader understanding of Catherine Coulson, or as you may know her, The Log Lady.
But we’re not doing this alone, we are joined by some very special guests Jenny Sullivan an accomplished actor, director, and playwright whose career spans film, television, and the stage, Claire Ollivier, Catherine’s great-niece and a creative spirit in her own right, and tying it all together Tessa ( @fire_walk_with_me_315 ) and we’ll be discussing the new documentary, I Know Catherine The Log Lady.
I Know Catherine The Log Lady is streaming now exclusively at
IKnowCatherine.com
Sources:
Twin Peaks
I Know Catherine the Log Lady
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/broads-next-door--5803223/support.
But we’re not doing this alone, we are joined by some very special guests Jenny Sullivan an accomplished actor, director, and playwright whose career spans film, television, and the stage, Claire Ollivier, Catherine’s great-niece and a creative spirit in her own right, and tying it all together Tessa ( @fire_walk_with_me_315 ) and we’ll be discussing the new documentary, I Know Catherine The Log Lady.
I Know Catherine The Log Lady is streaming now exclusively at
IKnowCatherine.com
Sources:
Twin Peaks
I Know Catherine the Log Lady
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/broads-next-door--5803223/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
One of my dearest closest friends is Catherine Colson.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
For sure, why this Catherine Cole hel you will when
I'm not hospas, I probably don't.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Have a whole lot longer.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
In nineteen ninety, Catherine Colson became an international cult icon
as the log Lady in the groundbreaking television series Twin Peaks.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Twenty fourteen The Bigames Mark Fuff the Navle.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
When twenty one return, Catherine was hiding the fact that
she was so sick.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
It was age four and Paspa said, what's your hardest desire?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
She said she wanted to finish her work on Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So we're up to that point where she was supposed
to be working and coming up to work.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
The producer was trying to organize a medical plane.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
To bring her up. She was going to fly to Washington.
It could have killed her.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
How could David put Catherine, who's dying, in a position
as an actor portraying this woman.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's time who's dying.
Speaker 7 (01:07):
The show must go on, It's life, life goes on.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
The story has to be told, no matter what tell
a story.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I know, Katherine the log Lady, we'll both see each
other again.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hello, neighbors, lovers, friends, and anyone who knows that one
day the sadness will end. I'm Daniella Scrima and this
is Broad's next door. Put on a cozy sweater, grab
a slice of cherry pie, and pour a damn fine
cup of coffee, because today we're taking a trip back
to Twin Peaks as we gain a broader understanding of
(01:46):
Katherine Colson, or, as you may know her, the log Lady.
But we're not doing it alone. I'm joined from some.
Speaker 8 (01:53):
Very special guest as we discuss.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The new documentary I know Catherine the log Lady.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Welcome to Twin Peaks. My name is Margaret Lanterman. I
live in Twin Peaks. I am known as the log Lady.
There is a story behind that. There are many stories
in Twin Peaks. Some of them are sad, some funny.
(02:22):
Some are stories of madness, of violence.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Some are ordinary.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yet they all have about them a sense of mystery,
the mystery of life, sometimes the mystery of death, the
mystery of the woods, the woods surrounding Twin Peaks. To
introduce this story, let me just say it encompasses the all.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
It is beyond the fire. Though few would know that meaning.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It is a story of many, but it begins with one.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And I knew her. Hi.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
How is everyone? Thank you so much for joining us
here today. Thank you Tessa for setting this all up.
Speaker 9 (03:14):
Hey, it's good to see you. Thanks for being here everyone.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, great to be here, Hie.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Before we dive in, I want to briefly introduce our guests.
For those who may not be familiar, we have Tessa
Firewalk with me from Instagram, who you all know and love.
We have Jenny Sullivan, an accomplished actor, director, and playwright
whose career spans film, television, and the stage, including work
(03:43):
with Robert Redford on The Candidate. Her work as a
storyteller has Her work as a storyteller has long explored
themes of personal truth, human connection, and resilience.
Speaker 8 (03:55):
She was also one of.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Catherine's closest friends, someone who both knew her both professionally
and personally for many years. We're also joan joined by
Claire Olivier, Catherine's great niece and a creative spirit in
her own right. So Claire brings not only her personal
family connection to Catherine, but also a unique generational lens
(04:17):
on legacy, creatiivity, and the evolution of women's roles in art,
film and storytelling, and just quick out, quick shout out
to women in film because it is still such a
male dominated industry. The last film I produced, there were
whole days where I was the only woman on set
(04:40):
other than hair and makeup, which it's like horrible in
twenty TiO. That was twenty twenty four. But so just
really want to quickly acknowledge acknowledge that, and are we
ready to get into some questions?
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Sure?
Speaker 8 (05:01):
All right, Jenny, We're going to start with you.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Okay, Jenny, your career has crossed so many creative paths,
from acting to directing to writing. Can you share how
you first met Catherine and what creative are personal circumstances
brought the two of you together.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
Well, we were in college at San Francisco State, and
we probably met maybe before this, but we ended up
in a play called On the Town. We were in
the we were in the chorus. She was the girl
on the bus. I was whatever, and that was.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
That was God.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
That was like a night well you know what. She
never talked dates, so I won't, but it was years again,
but we became really good friends then and I was
with we both met Jack Nance at the same time,
and I got to hear him say I'll marry this
(06:08):
woman someday and stuff like that, and just to can
I just say a little side note, my dad, who
was an actor of you know, forties, fifties, sixties, he
always loved to call the women that he loved in
this life great broads.
Speaker 8 (06:29):
Oh I love that, and I love that.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
And Catherine loved that he thought she was and he
called her Kathy, thought she was a great broad. So
when I saw it, I just went, oh, I have
to tell you this story.
Speaker 8 (06:44):
I love broads as a compliment.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I named my podcast that because when I was growing up,
we had these nurses who lived next door, and like
everyone else in our neighborhood was like married and had kids,
and there were these nurses next store and they were single,
but they'd bring guys over and date and have parties
and stuff. And my dad was always like those freaking
(07:07):
broads next door, making all those news, those broads next door,
And I was just like, I want to be a
broad next door.
Speaker 8 (07:15):
That's what I want to be. And you are, so yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
So you and Catherine had a deep connection, not just
as friends but also very entwined with your art.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Yes, yes, we we We were in theater together, we
made movies together. She produced my two short films. We
were in acting class together with the you know she,
I mean, she did so many things. She produced a
film that I was in with John Ritter. Wow, yeah,
(07:54):
I mean, you know, I mean, it just was all
over the place. And then she got and then she
moved into the camera work after her work on a Raserhead,
which we always referred to as her ongoing film education,
because she learned every.
Speaker 8 (08:13):
Job doing that the best way to learn.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Yeah. And then she she put down the camera and
went Yeah, she put down the camera, went off and
did twenty plus years in Ashland, Oregon as a theater
actress and just some most remarkable productions ever. So stayed
very very I mean when she moved out of LA
(08:38):
it just about killed me. But we stayed very connected
all all the way to the last day.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
That's and that's that's brave of her to leave LA,
especially when you have connections and friendships like that.
Speaker 8 (08:55):
Like doing stage stuff is amazing too, but it just takes.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
A certain amount of courage to leave anything that you've
become familiar with.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Yeah, Yeah, well, she then became the Queen of Ashland.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
I believe it true. True.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
People up there still missing her terribly. You know.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I bet she's somebody that if you bring up everyone,
even if they don't know her full name or everything,
everybody knows who she is, just that she just has
such an impact. One of the things that really stayed
with me from the film is the way that Catherine
seemed to approach life and even death with such clarity
(09:41):
and grace and openness.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
She endured a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
But always met the world with heart and humor, and
it reminds me of something she shared with David Lynch,
a belief in something deeper, something unseen.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
How do you remember that part of her spirit?
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Remember that every day?
Speaker 9 (10:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:04):
I you know, it's sort of like a mantra. What
can I say? Yeah, And there's parts of that spirit
of hers Like I'm looking right now at a at
a at a painting on the wall that Tony Bill
gave to me when we were produced, when he was producing,
(10:24):
when he was executive producing a film that Catherine was
producing and I was going to direct, and it's just
like it just it just resonates, It just resonates that
you know, the keep reaching out, keeps it just there's
reminders everywhere. I mean, I could probably go pick up
(10:46):
five things here and show you, but that would be crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
There's definitely like a sacredness in her words and in
your bond you worked on all these projects together. Was
it ever hard be two women in a mainly male
dominated field or did it just feel natural and you
made it work?
Speaker 5 (11:09):
You know, it definitely is hard. But if you've got
Catherine on your team, your bases are covered. You know,
nobody messed. I almost said something else mess or rerounded her,
and she really knew how to deal with it, and
it was always with such grace. So I think that
was one of the big lessons for me, was to
(11:33):
approach with grace. And you know, we were we were
pulling in favors from everybody we knew, including the men,
you know, to get projects done properly. Uh And you know,
you know, I'm sure there's people that somewhere said, oh
they're so pushy, or oh they're this or that or whatever,
(11:55):
but you know, I never I always kind of felt
I remember having this conversation with her once about women
in film the organization, because my projects were the Directing
Workshop for women and they you know, it was great
and it is great that those organizations are there to
(12:17):
support us, but it already kind of makes a separation.
You know, we're women and your men. It's not artists,
it's not creators, it's not you know. So we did
talk about that that it was just don't single is
out in that way.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I know it's hard to it's hard to find that
that balance, yeah, and the blending. But I feel like
when you do find your footing, and I mean you
have to pull favors too, you just have to be like.
Speaker 8 (12:48):
Please, I think if you're if.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
You're male or female in film, I feel like so
much of it is just a series of requests back
and forth. But that also builds like a really deep
camaraderie with people.
Speaker 9 (13:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, And Catherine was known for her generosity and support
of fellow artists, regardless of gender. So what was she
like as a collaborator and a friend behind the scenes.
What kind of energy did she bring into a room?
It seems like it was an amazing energy.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Honestly, Well, she you know, she did bring an amazing energy.
And I will say a little story to just an example,
is that she worked with a director up in Ashland,
and he then was starting to check into the possibility
(13:45):
of applying to be the artistic director up there. And
she really she knew the lay of the land. When
she knew the lay of the land, she would help you,
she would give you information, she'd take you ast side.
And and I've talked I've talked with Bill since. I mean,
(14:06):
he's in New York now and he's amazing, and he
still says, what do you think Catherine would think? There's
you know, this this thing of she had such wisdom
to kind of just guide the ship. And again, you know,
I'm sure there were some people that just felt, oh,
this is too much, I can't I can't take it,
(14:28):
But but it usually was right on the money and
much appreciated by me for sure.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Definitely, definitely it sounds like she just she had an
incredible impact. And she also obviously like cared deeply about
so many things the LGBTQ plus rights, environmental advocacy, mental health.
How did that part of her life show up in
(14:59):
your French or creative conversations. Was she like, we got
to do the right thing kind of gal.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Well, she was definitely that, but we got involved, you know.
I mean we were number one. We were in San
Francisco in the sixties, so let's just start with that. Yes,
but I had been very involved with the aides Quilt
and we had several friends that many many friends that
(15:27):
we lost during during that crisis. And she totally supported
me in that and came to displays and helped to
make things and brought her daughter when Zoe was little
and just said, this is what's happening. And Zoe got
(15:48):
to know a couple of people right before they passed.
And that's she did that as an ongoing life learning experience.
And I know she carried that over at Oregon Shakespeare
Festival because they have a big event they do at
the end of their year that still supports the community
(16:10):
in that way.
Speaker 8 (16:12):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I've done for listeners who have been with the show
for a while, you know, I've done several episodes about
the AIDS epidemic, because for those of us who were
kids when that was happening, or for a lot of
my listeners who were not even.
Speaker 8 (16:27):
Born yet, just like the horror of what.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Was happening and how it was ignored by the government
for so long. It really came down to the people
on the streets and in their communities just advocating for
each other. And that's just heartbreaking. But the strength that
people showed also really incredible.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Yeah. Yeah, so that was a very big part of
our just what we were doing in that. In fact,
we did a I created a piece up in Santa Barbara,
the theater piece, and she came down from Oregon to
participate in the theater piece and it was during an
(17:11):
AIDS awareness event and a display the quilt in Santa Barbara.
Speaker 8 (17:15):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, And Claire, we're gonna we're gonna give you some question.
We're going to give you some questions now, Claire, Catherine
is your great aunts?
Speaker 8 (17:28):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Okay, what are some of your earliest memories of her,
not just as the log lady, but as someone literally
in your family? Were you were there moments where you
started to understand the impact, like of who she was
outside of the family circle.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
Yeah, that's a good question. I would say, first, it's
strange to refer to her as Catherine if.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
I know, what did you call it?
Speaker 10 (17:58):
What did you call oh cookie? Yeah, so that's funny,
but I mean I never really knew her as the
log Lady. I didn't even full transparency know what Twin
Peaks was until I was maybe twenty. I do remember
as a kid my mom telling us that we weren't
allowed to watch Erase her Head until we were twenty one,
(18:23):
so I wonder why. I'm glad I did wait to
watch it though, But yeah, I mean, my earliest memories
were probably being at my great grandparents' house in Anaheim
and having Cookie kind of be Like Jenny mentioned something
earlier about how she had wisdom to guide the ship.
She was kind of like the matriarch of our family
(18:44):
in a lot of ways. My mom and all of
her siblings and their cousins come from a big family,
so they all kind of looked up to her in
a lot of ways, and I think that kind of
trickled down to the great nieces and nephews and children
and grandchildren and stuff. So I guess once I finally
realized who she was outside of family, it felt kind
(19:05):
of strange in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
It must it must, do you know how she got
that nickname?
Speaker 8 (19:13):
Was it before your time the Cookie?
Speaker 10 (19:15):
Or I only knew about it early on in then
watching the film itself there's a clip of my great
grandfather videotaping or getting an audio talking to her, and
she said, I think it was around age of like
five or six. People were calling her either Kathy or Cookie.
Speaker 11 (19:34):
Did she go?
Speaker 8 (19:34):
But so she went by that a lot within.
Speaker 10 (19:38):
I think it depends the circle she was in, huh.
With family, it was mostly Cookie. I didn't even know
her name was Catherine for the longest time.
Speaker 9 (19:47):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Okay, So, how has Cookie's legacy shaped your own creative journey?
Are there aspects of her artistic spirit that show up
in the way you create or express or do your
own stuff?
Speaker 7 (20:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (20:04):
I think I was so inspired by her growing up
that when I first got into college, I actually went
in as a film major, and then I transferred up
to humbold State University, which was like the farthest I
could get away from LA without fully leaving California, and
(20:25):
it was so Pacific Northwestern, and I was so in
love with it. And then I quickly changed my major
to environmental studies. And I think that's kind of where
there's a little bit of overlapping between her environmental advocacy
and you know, kind of the studies I took on
there so definitely influential her presence. For sure.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
She had such a distinct presence, both in the way
she carried herself and how she treated people. Is there
something about her energies or values that stayed with you
as you've grown into your own creative identity.
Speaker 8 (21:04):
Or just identity in general.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
Even yeah, I would say the cookie, the person I
knew didn't care about what other people thought. I think
she also lived very much like be here now, take
every day and as much as you can. And I
think that was really inspiring for me towards hearing about,
(21:29):
you know, the way she lived the end of her
life was super impactful in a lot of ways. And
I hope that I have like a tenth of the
drive or desire to live life fully as as she did.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
For sure, I feel like I would even take one percent.
That was one thing it really took away from the documentary.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
Even though the documentary it does focus.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
A lot on her death as well, it doesn't really
feel like a death per se. It feels like it's
kind of just leaving more of an impact of what
she did and how it was all connected. Like even
though all of the like I thought that the film
(22:14):
got really emotional toward toward the end, but it was
still like in a really inspiring way.
Speaker 10 (22:24):
Yeah, definitely. And for me, by the way that I
kind of saw was it made death feel a little
bit less scary. I actually have this great, big thing
to accomplish.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes, yes, and kind of like that you can contriute
like a sense of control too, like we're not just
completely helpless in our own lives and even in our
own deaths, because it can be a terrifying thing to
think about. So the documentary is available now for everyone
(22:59):
to watch. It came out on Tuesday, right for Yeah,
it came out in theater yesterday.
Speaker 10 (23:06):
Yeah, I came out yesterday digitally, and it's been screening
in theaters for the past couple of months. I think
it started with the OHI premiere.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I saw you in Portland, and I feel like that
was like a couple months a couple months ago.
Speaker 10 (23:22):
So you saw it at the Hollywood, Yeah, okay, cool.
So Zoe was at that screening.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
Oh see, I didn't. I left.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I had to leave before they I think they did
like a Q and a thing at the end, and
I had to leave before that happened. I know, I
was messaging Tessa, like I've seen the whole movie, but
I can't stay for the rest of it. But there
was like a line outside the building for that.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I know.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I remember when the Kickstarter launched, and I feel like
it was before Trump was like even president, So the
build like the first time.
Speaker 8 (23:55):
So the build up of the film has been going strong.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
For like like eight years or something, right, Yeah, which
I mean it takes like it takes that long to
make projects sometimes, especially when they're good. And Catherine's legacy
goes far beyond the log Lady. She helped shape the
look and feel of eraser Head, was one of the
(24:20):
first female camera operators in Hollywood.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
Worked on Star Trek two The Wrath.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Of Khan, which I think is just so cool, and
built an incredible presence at the theater world, like Jenny
was talking about with the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, which for
my fellow Oregonians, you know, like how big of a
deal that is?
Speaker 8 (24:42):
How do you both think her.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Journey speaks to the kind of creative freedom women have
had to fight for, not just on stage or on screen,
but like behind the scenes too.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Wow. Well, you know, I mean, she definitely was a
trailblazer her and I think it's she is somebody that
you can point to, or the Clerican point too. I'm
surprised now if I watch television, I see how many
(25:16):
female directors there are. You know, It's still not.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
A lot, no, but it's it's something now.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
But it was it was, you know, I mean, and
she produced, you know, she produced the short films for
UH Diane Cannon and Anne Bancroft at the UH Directing
Workshop for Women, you know, And have we seen those?
Have we even seen those films? You know?
Speaker 8 (25:45):
So we should we should all, we should all see them.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I wish things like that were made more accessible.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Yeah, yeah, I think, well, you know, who knows. There's
so much you have to go through with rights and
getting people to sign off. And we were doing projects
at AFI and that's where they seem to live right now. Yes.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
The film it's called I Know Catherine the log Lady,
and the log Lady has become the quiet symbol of
strength and insight, almost as a vessel for something larger
than herself. Do you think, but it also sounds like
Catherine herself was so different from the actual log Lady.
(26:32):
Do you think Catherine saw herself reflected in that role
at all, or perhaps find it kind of cathartic or
a creative release in playing her.
Speaker 8 (26:42):
Like it was a really cool part. It opened all
the shows.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Well, you know, I think she owned it. She made it.
So it came from that deep will and David's deep
will and you know, their idea to create together. So
that's what I think, And I don't think anybody else
could do it. I know people have taken on that image,
(27:10):
but it's so she's the most unique person I think
I've ever known, I've truly in just in every way.
So I think that's what I think, that's who the.
Speaker 9 (27:23):
Log Lady is.
Speaker 8 (27:24):
That's that's a great answer.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I like to think there's a little bit of log
Lady and all of us truly, truly, I really, I really,
I really hope they're I really hope there is.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
And that's where my laure started.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
For sure, just like to be able to deliver those
one liners that like leave everyone thinking and wondering, and
just to become so quotable. Well and then we all
want to kind of be like mysterious too. So she
really got to do so much with that and her
work with David Lynch in the early days of Eraserhead.
(28:05):
Had a profound impact behind the camera, from cutting Jack
Nance's iconic square haircut to providing many of the props
used in the film.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I was pretty much broke and Catherine, though, would go
and do waitress jobs during the day. I don't know
when she slept, but she would waitress and most times
would use her tip money to get us food. So
Catherine was a worker beyond the beyond. She would also
(28:37):
get stuff from her aunt market. Her Aunt Margaret lived
in Beverly Hills. She was a designer for Coal of California.
She designed Esther Williams swimsuits I think, and she had
a big house in Beverly Hills, and she was I
guess somewhat of a packrat. Aunt Margaret and Catherine could
(29:00):
rummage around in her basement or something. Fine things for Eraserhead,
vintage things, old things, beautiful stuff. The vaporizer for the
baby was one of those things that came from Aunt Margaret.
Then we needed umbilical cords at a certain time, and
Catherine went I don't know which hospital she went to,
(29:23):
I think UCLA and asked them if she could get
some umbilical cords. And in those days, I mean they
did look at her, probably quite strangely, but they said sure,
and they packed up a beautiful kind of a wax
impregnated jar shaped thing, but it was made of paper,
(29:45):
but it was wax impregnated and it had some medical
writings on it inside was I guess from aldehyde, and
maybe ten or twelve umbilical cords.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Fantastic she brought that back.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
She also got many many cans of peas and many,
many many things of custard for a scene in Henry's room.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Any kind of There.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Were only really mainly two or three people per night working,
and so everybody had to do kind of two things sometimes, and.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Catherine, you know, was you know, doing a.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Lot of a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Is there anything you could tell us about any of
her influence there or did she just kind of like
feel stuff and go with it. I kind of get that,
like she had a really good creative intuition.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I don't you know, I don't know. I mean, I
do know that that they had to make. She had
to maintain Jack's hair for several years, and I always thought,
oh my God, to live with that head of hair,
you know, I don't know. I mean I could totally.
She's she's the kind of person who say, yeah, we
can do that, how do we make that happen? You know?
(31:15):
And you know David had such an outrageous imagination that,
but she it was like for her, I think it
was more like, well, yeah, why not. I think that's
the kind of the great you know thing to follow
is why not? Why say no, we can't do this?
(31:38):
And she just said yes and figured it out, no
matter how weird.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
It was just a yes and kind of attitude. Yeah,
her legacy is just I think, really shining on right now.
Do you think the everybody Tessa Claire Johnny, what do
you think that kind of advice she would want to
give to people who are going into I know you
(32:04):
can't speak for her directly, but for people trying to
find their voices and do their own thing. We have
so much self doubt and questioning and people feeling unsure
if there's space for them. What do you think cookie
Slash Catherine would want us.
Speaker 8 (32:21):
All to do. I think she would, yeah, trust yourself.
Speaker 10 (32:28):
I would say she would say, don't take shit.
Speaker 8 (32:32):
Don't take shit, don't take shit. That's good, Tessa you
got anything to throw in.
Speaker 7 (32:39):
I feel like, like get better not bitter is a
big thing I think with her.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
I think like my takeaway would also be to just
unapologetically be your be yourself, which because there's never going
to be another of you, just like there will never
be another of her, we all have something to kind
of bring to the table in our own way.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yeah, if you could just shoot okay, Jenny, if you
had to describe Catherine in just a few words, not
just as the log lady, but as your friend, what
would those words be?
Speaker 5 (33:26):
H Inspirational, hysterical, sexy.
Speaker 8 (33:33):
I love the sexy in there too.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And Claire, if you could share one thing about Cookie,
something the world might not know, or something you would
feel she wants carried forward, what would it be?
Speaker 10 (33:48):
I think, just on an individual level, she would want
us to be the best versions of ourselves possible.
Speaker 8 (33:55):
That's great, It's so important.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Like I think that really relates back to everything we've
talked about, Tessa, have you learned anything while promoting the
film or watching it? You're such a Twin Peaks die
hard fan and you just spend so much time in
that universe. But was there anything really new for you.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
I really loved learning about her involvement with a raserhead
because that was something I really didn't know about, and
I just felt like she was so innovative behind the
scenes there and such a big part of making that happen.
Speaker 9 (34:31):
And it really just it's.
Speaker 7 (34:33):
Awesome to see how that's come to life now in
later years, because I feel like when that came out,
it was like so like people didn't understand it, they
didn't know what to make of it, and now it's
just it has such a cult following and it really
is like the epitome of like a group of small
(34:54):
people making an independent film that like would have effects
long long after it ever came out, and like they
didn't know it was going to be like that when
they were making it, but they were just following a vision,
and like, I don't know, I feel like that really
offers a lot to learn for people, because like you
(35:15):
got to be true to yourself and follow your visions
and your dreams and like not care about what other
people think.
Speaker 9 (35:22):
You know, that's a really big deal.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
When twin Peaks originally aired, my mom would watch it,
and I'm an only child, so just whatever she watched,
I would watch with her. She did not have the
wherewith all of Claire's mother to.
Speaker 8 (35:36):
Be like some of these things might be just for
a child.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
So I remember just watching it every week, and I
was probably like six or seven when the show aired,
and when Catherine came on screen when we had log
Lady time, I knew it was time. I was like, oh,
we're watching the who called the Pretty Blonde Teenager show?
Speaker 8 (36:02):
But and I loved it.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I felt like just like a mystery, like of the
whole who Killed Laura Palmer thing? One thing my mom
is listening, so don't take this too personal, mom, But
we did watch a Raserhead at.
Speaker 8 (36:15):
Some point during that same period of time, and I.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Did not I did not have like the put together
that this is like a David Lynch thing or understand
it or anything.
Speaker 8 (36:24):
I was just like, I'm gonna have nightmares.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I'm gonna I'm gonna have nightmares.
Speaker 8 (36:30):
Why are why are we watching this?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
But then rewatching it as an adult, it's like I
can see the brilliance of it and the layers to it,
and how amazing it was that they were able to
pull all of that together.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Yeah, I really was there's so many David. I'm pretty
sure that all of David Lynch's works. The first time
I saw it, I really didn't know what I just
watched and didn't know how to feel about it at all.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, when I was in eighth grade, we would rent
Mall Holland Drive from Blockbuster like every weekend, and I
had no idea what.
Speaker 8 (37:07):
It was about, no idea what it was about.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I was just like we'd watch it like over and
over again and loved it, but like it took me
years to even like kind of form a theory of.
Speaker 8 (37:19):
What was what you were watching. Yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 9 (37:24):
That's so beautiful too.
Speaker 7 (37:25):
About so many of these works is they leave so
much for up for interpretation and for your own understanding,
and you can kind of take from it like important
things that mean something to you specifically. And I feel
like it's so vast and how that's affected people.
Speaker 10 (37:43):
I think that's kind of a point. Yeah, like not everything,
there's kind of a beauty to fully understanding everything.
Speaker 9 (37:53):
Yeah, life is so I should film be any less.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
You know, it gives you an opportunity to form your
own opinions about things in your own way of looking
at life.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah, it definitely brings everyone into the story because then
you get to take your own experiences. Like me watching
Malholland Drive, I was like, this is so about me
and the thirteen year old boy.
Speaker 8 (38:18):
I have a crush on.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
But just and I think that Catherine really understood that too.
She gave like us, such a good performance, but she
also left room for the mystery and interpretation, whether it
was on screen or on stage or behind the scenes.
So I want to do a quick plug for the
(38:43):
film for everyone who hasn't seen it. Are we Is
it still in theaters at all or we just we're
running it on demand now.
Speaker 10 (38:54):
So we are doing more screenings. We have an upcoming
screening at the Mahoning Drive that's in.
Speaker 9 (39:01):
That's Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (39:05):
Okay, and that's Soldo.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
Yeah, Tessa will be there, the director will be there
doing a Q and A. And then so we have.
Speaker 9 (39:15):
Gohead so Little ray Wise will be there too.
Speaker 8 (39:18):
Oh cool.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (39:22):
And then we have the Danish premiere coming up that's
September twenty fifth, and it's doing they're doing like a
Denmark burlesque show before the screening of the movie.
Speaker 8 (39:31):
Amazing.
Speaker 10 (39:33):
And then the digital release came out yesterday, so anybody
can go and order it on the website. It's I
Know Katherine dot Com and that is with Joma Film.
So Andy Ludgren, who's in the movie, her and her
husband created this independent film platform where you can stream.
There are movies along with ours of yesterday.
Speaker 8 (39:56):
So it's exciting, Okay, awesome.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
So people shouldn't like go on Amazon Prime for it,
they want to go to I Know Katherine dot Com
for it, right, Okay, I'll make sure to I'll make
sure to link to that in the episode description. Thank
you all so much for joining us. We have one
minute before this thing is going to cut us off.
(40:18):
But thank you for letting us know about a cookie
as Cookie as she was called, and knowing Jenny, knowing
Catherine from the sixties in San Francisco, so you got
to really just experience everything together.
Speaker 8 (40:38):
Yeah yeah, and Tessa.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Thank you so much for helping put all of this together.
We'll make a great social media post tomorrow.
Speaker 8 (40:48):
I'm going to edit this episode.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Today and put in some soundbites that I was sent
and I think it'll be a wonderful episode. But thank
you all so much for being on Broad's next door. Well,
I'm all great, broads, You're all great.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
Broad Broad's next door. I think it's great.
Speaker 8 (41:05):
Thank you so much, you so much.
Speaker 9 (41:08):
And be talking with you all. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yeah, me too, me too, all right, everybody, have a
wonderful day.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Thanks, bye bye.
Speaker 8 (41:25):
No, I'm just waiting for from.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
The Star stud at Hollywood Premiere to screens across the country.
From the first Laughter and Tears to one hundred on
Rotten Tomatoes.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
People are getting to know Katherine the love Lady actors
they want to die on stage.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
One of my closest friends is Katherine Colson.
Speaker 10 (41:45):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Katherine wanted to die at Twin Peaks.
Speaker 10 (41:49):
She's a shawman.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Take everybody with her on that journey.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It's time watch it now exclusively at I Know Katherine
dot com.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
My name is David Lee Israel. We are in the
red Room. I believe.
Speaker 6 (42:05):
I spend my days taking amazing people from all over
the world up to Twin Peaks, showing inless sites. I
won a best tour in the Pacific Northwest. Troop Advisor
sent me an emails saying congratulations.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Here in the top ten percent of things.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
To do worldwide for me. All the locations would kind
of like their own characters, you know, especially growing up
around here, so.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
I want to know where everything was.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
I talk about this film daily with all my clients, like,
this is gonna be this really cool documentary and coming
out about the Log.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Lady and everybody freaks out. Oh I can't wait. I'm
so glad. I decided to bring my father.
Speaker 6 (42:39):
He can stop talking about it.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
He was like, he was so powerful. It was so amazing,
and it was for me too. I absolutely loved it.
To see Katherine in that light was just beautiful. Everybody's
gonna love this movie. I Know Katherine.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Pre order now at I Know Katherine dot com.
Speaker 11 (42:59):
Thank you, thanks so much for listening to another episode
of Broad's next Door.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
Thank you to Tessa, Jenny, and Claire. Make sure to
click the.
Speaker 11 (43:09):
Link in the episode description so you can watch I
Know the.
Speaker 8 (43:14):
Loglady for yourself.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Thank you also to Katherine Colson for leaving such an
incredible legacy that stays with us on our screens and
in our hearts. You can find me online at Danielle
Screama or at Broad's next Door. You can email me
at broadsnextdoor dot com or broadsnextdoor at gmail dot com.
Speaker 11 (43:38):
You can also slide into my DMS. I am going
to end this episode with some quotes from the loglady,
so enjoy.
Speaker 8 (43:49):
I'll talk to you very soon. Bye. I think that's
going to come out.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I carry a log. Yes, is it funny to you?
Speaker 9 (44:06):
It is not to me.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd.
Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind
the human beings veried behavior?
Speaker 4 (44:20):
I think not. Some take the time. Are they called detectives.
Speaker 8 (44:26):
I think that's going to come out.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Watch and see what life teaches.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Sometimes ideas like men jump up and say hello.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
They introduce themselves, these ideas with words? Are they words?
These ideas speak so strangely.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
All that we see in this world is based on
someone's ideas. Some ideas are destructive, some are constructive. Some
idea can arrive in the form of a dream. I
can say it again, Some ideas arrive in the form
of a dream. There is a sadness in this world,
(45:16):
for we are ignorant of many things. Yes, we are
ignorant of many beautiful things, things like the truth. So
sadness in our ignorance is very real. The tears are real.
What is this thing called a tear? There are even
tiny ducks, tear ducks to produce these tears. Should the
(45:39):
sadness occur, and the day when the sadness comes, then
we ask, will this sadness which makes me cry? Will
this sadness that makes me cry my heart out? Will
it ever end? The answer, of course is yes, one
day the sadness will end. Even the ones who laugh
(46:06):
are sometimes caught without an answer. These creatures who introduce themselves,
but we swear we have met them somewhere before.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Yes, look in the mirror. What do you see? Is
it a dream or a nightmare?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Are we being introduced against our will? Are they mirrors?
Speaker 4 (46:28):
I can see the smoke, I can smell the fire.
The battle is drawing nigh.
Speaker 9 (46:37):
I think that's going to come out.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I play my part on life stage. I tell what
I can to form the perfect answer. But that answer
cannot come before all are ready to hear.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
So I tell what I can to form the perfect answer.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Sometimes my anger at the fire is evident, Sometimes it
is not anger. Reading it may appear as such, but
could it be a clue?
Speaker 4 (47:03):
The fire I speak of is not a kind fire,
I think that's going to come out. Beauty is in
the eye of the beholder. Yet there are those who
open many eyes. Eyes are the mirror of the soul.
Someone has said, so we look closely at the eyes
(47:23):
to see the nature of the soul.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Sometimes when we see the eyes, those horrible times, when
we see the eyes, eyes that have no soul, then
we know a darkness. Then we wonder where is the beauty?
There is none if the eyes are souls. A drunken
(47:52):
man walks in a way that is quite impossible for
a sober man to imitate, and vice versa it an
evil man has a way, no matter how clever to
the trained.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Eye, his way will show itself. Am I being too secretive?
No one can never answer questions at the wrong moment. Life,
like music, has a rhythm.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
This particular song will end with three sharp sounds, like
deathly drumbeats.
One of my dearest closest friends is Catherine Colson.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
For sure, why this Catherine Cole hel you will when
I'm not hospas, I probably don't.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Have a whole lot longer.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
In nineteen ninety, Catherine Colson became an international cult icon
as the log Lady in the groundbreaking television series Twin Peaks.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Twenty fourteen The Bigames Mark Fuff the Navle.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
When twenty one return, Catherine was hiding the fact that
she was so sick.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
It was age four and Paspa said, what's your hardest desire?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
She said she wanted to finish her work on Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So we're up to that point where she was supposed
to be working and coming up to work.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
The producer was trying to organize a medical plane.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
To bring her up. She was going to fly to Washington.
It could have killed her.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
How could David put Catherine, who's dying, in a position
as an actor portraying this woman.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's time who's dying.
Speaker 7 (01:07):
The show must go on, It's life, life goes on.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
The story has to be told, no matter what tell
a story.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I know, Katherine the log Lady, we'll both see each
other again.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hello, neighbors, lovers, friends, and anyone who knows that one
day the sadness will end. I'm Daniella Scrima and this
is Broad's next door. Put on a cozy sweater, grab
a slice of cherry pie, and pour a damn fine
cup of coffee, because today we're taking a trip back
to Twin Peaks as we gain a broader understanding of
(01:46):
Katherine Colson, or, as you may know her, the log Lady.
But we're not doing it alone. I'm joined from some.
Speaker 8 (01:53):
Very special guest as we discuss.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The new documentary I know Catherine the log Lady.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Welcome to Twin Peaks. My name is Margaret Lanterman. I
live in Twin Peaks. I am known as the log Lady.
There is a story behind that. There are many stories
in Twin Peaks. Some of them are sad, some funny.
(02:22):
Some are stories of madness, of violence.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Some are ordinary.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yet they all have about them a sense of mystery,
the mystery of life, sometimes the mystery of death, the
mystery of the woods, the woods surrounding Twin Peaks. To
introduce this story, let me just say it encompasses the all.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
It is beyond the fire. Though few would know that meaning.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It is a story of many, but it begins with one.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And I knew her. Hi.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
How is everyone? Thank you so much for joining us
here today. Thank you Tessa for setting this all up.
Speaker 9 (03:14):
Hey, it's good to see you. Thanks for being here everyone.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, great to be here, Hie.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Before we dive in, I want to briefly introduce our guests.
For those who may not be familiar, we have Tessa
Firewalk with me from Instagram, who you all know and love.
We have Jenny Sullivan, an accomplished actor, director, and playwright
whose career spans film, television, and the stage, including work
(03:43):
with Robert Redford on The Candidate. Her work as a
storyteller has Her work as a storyteller has long explored
themes of personal truth, human connection, and resilience.
Speaker 8 (03:55):
She was also one of.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Catherine's closest friends, someone who both knew her both professionally
and personally for many years. We're also joan joined by
Claire Olivier, Catherine's great niece and a creative spirit in
her own right. So Claire brings not only her personal
family connection to Catherine, but also a unique generational lens
(04:17):
on legacy, creatiivity, and the evolution of women's roles in art,
film and storytelling, and just quick out, quick shout out
to women in film because it is still such a
male dominated industry. The last film I produced, there were
whole days where I was the only woman on set
(04:40):
other than hair and makeup, which it's like horrible in
twenty TiO. That was twenty twenty four. But so just
really want to quickly acknowledge acknowledge that, and are we
ready to get into some questions?
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Sure?
Speaker 8 (05:01):
All right, Jenny, We're going to start with you.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Okay, Jenny, your career has crossed so many creative paths,
from acting to directing to writing. Can you share how
you first met Catherine and what creative are personal circumstances
brought the two of you together.
Speaker 5 (05:23):
Well, we were in college at San Francisco State, and
we probably met maybe before this, but we ended up
in a play called On the Town. We were in
the we were in the chorus. She was the girl
on the bus. I was whatever, and that was.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
That was God.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
That was like a night well you know what. She
never talked dates, so I won't, but it was years again,
but we became really good friends then and I was
with we both met Jack Nance at the same time,
and I got to hear him say I'll marry this
(06:08):
woman someday and stuff like that, and just to can
I just say a little side note, my dad, who
was an actor of you know, forties, fifties, sixties, he
always loved to call the women that he loved in
this life great broads.
Speaker 8 (06:29):
Oh I love that, and I love that.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
And Catherine loved that he thought she was and he
called her Kathy, thought she was a great broad. So
when I saw it, I just went, oh, I have
to tell you this story.
Speaker 8 (06:44):
I love broads as a compliment.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I named my podcast that because when I was growing up,
we had these nurses who lived next door, and like
everyone else in our neighborhood was like married and had kids,
and there were these nurses next store and they were single,
but they'd bring guys over and date and have parties
and stuff. And my dad was always like those freaking
(07:07):
broads next door, making all those news, those broads next door,
And I was just like, I want to be a
broad next door.
Speaker 8 (07:15):
That's what I want to be. And you are, so yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
So you and Catherine had a deep connection, not just
as friends but also very entwined with your art.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Yes, yes, we we We were in theater together, we
made movies together. She produced my two short films. We
were in acting class together with the you know she,
I mean, she did so many things. She produced a
film that I was in with John Ritter. Wow, yeah,
(07:54):
I mean, you know, I mean, it just was all
over the place. And then she got and then she
moved into the camera work after her work on a Raserhead,
which we always referred to as her ongoing film education,
because she learned every.
Speaker 8 (08:13):
Job doing that the best way to learn.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Yeah. And then she she put down the camera and
went Yeah, she put down the camera, went off and
did twenty plus years in Ashland, Oregon as a theater
actress and just some most remarkable productions ever. So stayed
very very I mean when she moved out of LA
(08:38):
it just about killed me. But we stayed very connected
all all the way to the last day.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
That's and that's that's brave of her to leave LA,
especially when you have connections and friendships like that.
Speaker 8 (08:55):
Like doing stage stuff is amazing too, but it just takes.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
A certain amount of courage to leave anything that you've
become familiar with.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Yeah, Yeah, well, she then became the Queen of Ashland.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
I believe it true. True.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
People up there still missing her terribly. You know.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I bet she's somebody that if you bring up everyone,
even if they don't know her full name or everything,
everybody knows who she is, just that she just has
such an impact. One of the things that really stayed
with me from the film is the way that Catherine
seemed to approach life and even death with such clarity
(09:41):
and grace and openness.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
She endured a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
But always met the world with heart and humor, and
it reminds me of something she shared with David Lynch,
a belief in something deeper, something unseen.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
How do you remember that part of her spirit?
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Remember that every day?
Speaker 9 (10:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:04):
I you know, it's sort of like a mantra. What
can I say? Yeah, And there's parts of that spirit
of hers Like I'm looking right now at a at
a at a painting on the wall that Tony Bill
gave to me when we were produced, when he was producing,
(10:24):
when he was executive producing a film that Catherine was
producing and I was going to direct, and it's just
like it just it just resonates, It just resonates that
you know, the keep reaching out, keeps it just there's
reminders everywhere. I mean, I could probably go pick up
(10:46):
five things here and show you, but that would be crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
There's definitely like a sacredness in her words and in
your bond you worked on all these projects together. Was
it ever hard be two women in a mainly male
dominated field or did it just feel natural and you
made it work?
Speaker 5 (11:09):
You know, it definitely is hard. But if you've got
Catherine on your team, your bases are covered. You know,
nobody messed. I almost said something else mess or rerounded her,
and she really knew how to deal with it, and
it was always with such grace. So I think that
was one of the big lessons for me, was to
(11:33):
approach with grace. And you know, we were we were
pulling in favors from everybody we knew, including the men,
you know, to get projects done properly. Uh And you know,
you know, I'm sure there's people that somewhere said, oh
they're so pushy, or oh they're this or that or whatever,
(11:55):
but you know, I never I always kind of felt
I remember having this conversation with her once about women
in film the organization, because my projects were the Directing
Workshop for women and they you know, it was great
and it is great that those organizations are there to
(12:17):
support us, but it already kind of makes a separation.
You know, we're women and your men. It's not artists,
it's not creators, it's not you know. So we did
talk about that that it was just don't single is
out in that way.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I know it's hard to it's hard to find that
that balance, yeah, and the blending. But I feel like
when you do find your footing, and I mean you
have to pull favors too, you just have to be like.
Speaker 8 (12:48):
Please, I think if you're if.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
You're male or female in film, I feel like so
much of it is just a series of requests back
and forth. But that also builds like a really deep
camaraderie with people.
Speaker 9 (13:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, And Catherine was known for her generosity and support
of fellow artists, regardless of gender. So what was she
like as a collaborator and a friend behind the scenes.
What kind of energy did she bring into a room?
It seems like it was an amazing energy.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Honestly, Well, she you know, she did bring an amazing energy.
And I will say a little story to just an example,
is that she worked with a director up in Ashland,
and he then was starting to check into the possibility
(13:45):
of applying to be the artistic director up there. And
she really she knew the lay of the land. When
she knew the lay of the land, she would help you,
she would give you information, she'd take you ast side.
And and I've talked I've talked with Bill since. I mean,
(14:06):
he's in New York now and he's amazing, and he
still says, what do you think Catherine would think? There's
you know, this this thing of she had such wisdom
to kind of just guide the ship. And again, you know,
I'm sure there were some people that just felt, oh,
this is too much, I can't I can't take it,
(14:28):
But but it usually was right on the money and
much appreciated by me for sure.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Definitely, definitely it sounds like she just she had an
incredible impact. And she also obviously like cared deeply about
so many things the LGBTQ plus rights, environmental advocacy, mental health.
How did that part of her life show up in
(14:59):
your French or creative conversations. Was she like, we got
to do the right thing kind of gal.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Well, she was definitely that, but we got involved, you know.
I mean we were number one. We were in San
Francisco in the sixties, so let's just start with that. Yes,
but I had been very involved with the aides Quilt
and we had several friends that many many friends that
(15:27):
we lost during during that crisis. And she totally supported
me in that and came to displays and helped to
make things and brought her daughter when Zoe was little
and just said, this is what's happening. And Zoe got
(15:48):
to know a couple of people right before they passed.
And that's she did that as an ongoing life learning experience.
And I know she carried that over at Oregon Shakespeare
Festival because they have a big event they do at
the end of their year that still supports the community
(16:10):
in that way.
Speaker 8 (16:12):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I've done for listeners who have been with the show
for a while, you know, I've done several episodes about
the AIDS epidemic, because for those of us who were
kids when that was happening, or for a lot of
my listeners who were not even.
Speaker 8 (16:27):
Born yet, just like the horror of what.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Was happening and how it was ignored by the government
for so long. It really came down to the people
on the streets and in their communities just advocating for
each other. And that's just heartbreaking. But the strength that
people showed also really incredible.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Yeah. Yeah, so that was a very big part of
our just what we were doing in that. In fact,
we did a I created a piece up in Santa Barbara,
the theater piece, and she came down from Oregon to
participate in the theater piece and it was during an
(17:11):
AIDS awareness event and a display the quilt in Santa Barbara.
Speaker 8 (17:15):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, And Claire, we're gonna we're gonna give you some question.
We're going to give you some questions now, Claire, Catherine
is your great aunts?
Speaker 8 (17:28):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Okay, what are some of your earliest memories of her,
not just as the log lady, but as someone literally
in your family? Were you were there moments where you
started to understand the impact, like of who she was
outside of the family circle.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
Yeah, that's a good question. I would say, first, it's
strange to refer to her as Catherine if.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
I know, what did you call it?
Speaker 10 (17:58):
What did you call oh cookie? Yeah, so that's funny,
but I mean I never really knew her as the
log Lady. I didn't even full transparency know what Twin
Peaks was until I was maybe twenty. I do remember
as a kid my mom telling us that we weren't
allowed to watch Erase her Head until we were twenty one,
(18:23):
so I wonder why. I'm glad I did wait to
watch it though, But yeah, I mean, my earliest memories
were probably being at my great grandparents' house in Anaheim
and having Cookie kind of be Like Jenny mentioned something
earlier about how she had wisdom to guide the ship.
She was kind of like the matriarch of our family
(18:44):
in a lot of ways. My mom and all of
her siblings and their cousins come from a big family,
so they all kind of looked up to her in
a lot of ways, and I think that kind of
trickled down to the great nieces and nephews and children
and grandchildren and stuff. So I guess once I finally
realized who she was outside of family, it felt kind
(19:05):
of strange in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
It must it must, do you know how she got
that nickname?
Speaker 8 (19:13):
Was it before your time the Cookie?
Speaker 10 (19:15):
Or I only knew about it early on in then
watching the film itself there's a clip of my great
grandfather videotaping or getting an audio talking to her, and
she said, I think it was around age of like
five or six. People were calling her either Kathy or Cookie.
Speaker 11 (19:34):
Did she go?
Speaker 8 (19:34):
But so she went by that a lot within.
Speaker 10 (19:38):
I think it depends the circle she was in, huh.
With family, it was mostly Cookie. I didn't even know
her name was Catherine for the longest time.
Speaker 9 (19:47):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Okay, So, how has Cookie's legacy shaped your own creative journey?
Are there aspects of her artistic spirit that show up
in the way you create or express or do your
own stuff?
Speaker 7 (20:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (20:04):
I think I was so inspired by her growing up
that when I first got into college, I actually went
in as a film major, and then I transferred up
to humbold State University, which was like the farthest I
could get away from LA without fully leaving California, and
(20:25):
it was so Pacific Northwestern, and I was so in
love with it. And then I quickly changed my major
to environmental studies. And I think that's kind of where
there's a little bit of overlapping between her environmental advocacy
and you know, kind of the studies I took on
there so definitely influential her presence. For sure.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
She had such a distinct presence, both in the way
she carried herself and how she treated people. Is there
something about her energies or values that stayed with you
as you've grown into your own creative identity.
Speaker 8 (21:04):
Or just identity in general.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
Even yeah, I would say the cookie, the person I
knew didn't care about what other people thought. I think
she also lived very much like be here now, take
every day and as much as you can. And I
think that was really inspiring for me towards hearing about,
(21:29):
you know, the way she lived the end of her
life was super impactful in a lot of ways. And
I hope that I have like a tenth of the
drive or desire to live life fully as as she did.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
For sure, I feel like I would even take one percent.
That was one thing it really took away from the documentary.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
Even though the documentary it does focus.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
A lot on her death as well, it doesn't really
feel like a death per se. It feels like it's
kind of just leaving more of an impact of what
she did and how it was all connected. Like even
though all of the like I thought that the film
(22:14):
got really emotional toward toward the end, but it was
still like in a really inspiring way.
Speaker 10 (22:24):
Yeah, definitely. And for me, by the way that I
kind of saw was it made death feel a little
bit less scary. I actually have this great, big thing
to accomplish.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes, yes, and kind of like that you can contriute
like a sense of control too, like we're not just
completely helpless in our own lives and even in our
own deaths, because it can be a terrifying thing to
think about. So the documentary is available now for everyone
(22:59):
to watch. It came out on Tuesday, right for Yeah,
it came out in theater yesterday.
Speaker 10 (23:06):
Yeah, I came out yesterday digitally, and it's been screening
in theaters for the past couple of months. I think
it started with the OHI premiere.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I saw you in Portland, and I feel like that
was like a couple months a couple months ago.
Speaker 10 (23:22):
So you saw it at the Hollywood, Yeah, okay, cool.
So Zoe was at that screening.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
Oh see, I didn't. I left.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I had to leave before they I think they did
like a Q and a thing at the end, and
I had to leave before that happened. I know, I
was messaging Tessa, like I've seen the whole movie, but
I can't stay for the rest of it. But there
was like a line outside the building for that.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I know.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I remember when the Kickstarter launched, and I feel like
it was before Trump was like even president, So the
build like the first time.
Speaker 8 (23:55):
So the build up of the film has been going strong.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
For like like eight years or something, right, Yeah, which
I mean it takes like it takes that long to
make projects sometimes, especially when they're good. And Catherine's legacy
goes far beyond the log Lady. She helped shape the
look and feel of eraser Head, was one of the
(24:20):
first female camera operators in Hollywood.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
Worked on Star Trek two The Wrath.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Of Khan, which I think is just so cool, and
built an incredible presence at the theater world, like Jenny
was talking about with the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, which for
my fellow Oregonians, you know, like how big of a
deal that is?
Speaker 8 (24:42):
How do you both think her.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Journey speaks to the kind of creative freedom women have
had to fight for, not just on stage or on screen,
but like behind the scenes too.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Wow. Well, you know, I mean, she definitely was a
trailblazer her and I think it's she is somebody that
you can point to, or the Clerican point too. I'm
surprised now if I watch television, I see how many
(25:16):
female directors there are. You know, It's still not.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
A lot, no, but it's it's something now.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
But it was it was, you know, I mean, and
she produced, you know, she produced the short films for
UH Diane Cannon and Anne Bancroft at the UH Directing
Workshop for Women, you know, And have we seen those?
Have we even seen those films? You know?
Speaker 8 (25:45):
So we should we should all, we should all see them.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I wish things like that were made more accessible.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Yeah, yeah, I think, well, you know, who knows. There's
so much you have to go through with rights and
getting people to sign off. And we were doing projects
at AFI and that's where they seem to live right now. Yes.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
The film it's called I Know Catherine the log Lady,
and the log Lady has become the quiet symbol of
strength and insight, almost as a vessel for something larger
than herself. Do you think, but it also sounds like
Catherine herself was so different from the actual log Lady.
(26:32):
Do you think Catherine saw herself reflected in that role
at all, or perhaps find it kind of cathartic or
a creative release in playing her.
Speaker 8 (26:42):
Like it was a really cool part. It opened all
the shows.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Well, you know, I think she owned it. She made it.
So it came from that deep will and David's deep
will and you know, their idea to create together. So
that's what I think, And I don't think anybody else
could do it. I know people have taken on that image,
(27:10):
but it's so she's the most unique person I think
I've ever known, I've truly in just in every way.
So I think that's what I think, that's who the.
Speaker 9 (27:23):
Log Lady is.
Speaker 8 (27:24):
That's that's a great answer.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I like to think there's a little bit of log
Lady and all of us truly, truly, I really, I really,
I really hope they're I really hope there is.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
And that's where my laure started.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
For sure, just like to be able to deliver those
one liners that like leave everyone thinking and wondering, and
just to become so quotable. Well and then we all
want to kind of be like mysterious too. So she
really got to do so much with that and her
work with David Lynch in the early days of Eraserhead.
(28:05):
Had a profound impact behind the camera, from cutting Jack
Nance's iconic square haircut to providing many of the props
used in the film.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I was pretty much broke and Catherine, though, would go
and do waitress jobs during the day. I don't know
when she slept, but she would waitress and most times
would use her tip money to get us food. So
Catherine was a worker beyond the beyond. She would also
(28:37):
get stuff from her aunt market. Her Aunt Margaret lived
in Beverly Hills. She was a designer for Coal of California.
She designed Esther Williams swimsuits I think, and she had
a big house in Beverly Hills, and she was I
guess somewhat of a packrat. Aunt Margaret and Catherine could
(29:00):
rummage around in her basement or something. Fine things for Eraserhead,
vintage things, old things, beautiful stuff. The vaporizer for the
baby was one of those things that came from Aunt Margaret.
Then we needed umbilical cords at a certain time, and
Catherine went I don't know which hospital she went to,
(29:23):
I think UCLA and asked them if she could get
some umbilical cords. And in those days, I mean they
did look at her, probably quite strangely, but they said sure,
and they packed up a beautiful kind of a wax
impregnated jar shaped thing, but it was made of paper,
(29:45):
but it was wax impregnated and it had some medical
writings on it inside was I guess from aldehyde, and
maybe ten or twelve umbilical cords.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Fantastic she brought that back.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
She also got many many cans of peas and many,
many many things of custard for a scene in Henry's room.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Any kind of There.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Were only really mainly two or three people per night working,
and so everybody had to do kind of two things sometimes, and.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Catherine, you know, was you know, doing a.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Lot of a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Is there anything you could tell us about any of
her influence there or did she just kind of like
feel stuff and go with it. I kind of get that,
like she had a really good creative intuition.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I don't you know, I don't know. I mean, I
do know that that they had to make. She had
to maintain Jack's hair for several years, and I always thought,
oh my God, to live with that head of hair,
you know, I don't know. I mean I could totally.
She's she's the kind of person who say, yeah, we
can do that, how do we make that happen? You know?
(31:15):
And you know David had such an outrageous imagination that,
but she it was like for her, I think it
was more like, well, yeah, why not. I think that's
the kind of the great you know thing to follow
is why not? Why say no, we can't do this?
(31:38):
And she just said yes and figured it out, no
matter how weird.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
It was just a yes and kind of attitude. Yeah,
her legacy is just I think, really shining on right now.
Do you think the everybody Tessa Claire Johnny, what do
you think that kind of advice she would want to
give to people who are going into I know you
(32:04):
can't speak for her directly, but for people trying to
find their voices and do their own thing. We have
so much self doubt and questioning and people feeling unsure
if there's space for them. What do you think cookie
Slash Catherine would want us.
Speaker 8 (32:21):
All to do. I think she would, yeah, trust yourself.
Speaker 10 (32:28):
I would say she would say, don't take shit.
Speaker 8 (32:32):
Don't take shit, don't take shit. That's good, Tessa you
got anything to throw in.
Speaker 7 (32:39):
I feel like, like get better not bitter is a
big thing I think with her.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
I think like my takeaway would also be to just
unapologetically be your be yourself, which because there's never going
to be another of you, just like there will never
be another of her, we all have something to kind
of bring to the table in our own way.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yeah, if you could just shoot okay, Jenny, if you
had to describe Catherine in just a few words, not
just as the log lady, but as your friend, what
would those words be?
Speaker 5 (33:26):
H Inspirational, hysterical, sexy.
Speaker 8 (33:33):
I love the sexy in there too.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
And Claire, if you could share one thing about Cookie,
something the world might not know, or something you would
feel she wants carried forward, what would it be?
Speaker 10 (33:48):
I think, just on an individual level, she would want
us to be the best versions of ourselves possible.
Speaker 8 (33:55):
That's great, It's so important.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Like I think that really relates back to everything we've
talked about, Tessa, have you learned anything while promoting the
film or watching it? You're such a Twin Peaks die
hard fan and you just spend so much time in
that universe. But was there anything really new for you.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
I really loved learning about her involvement with a raserhead
because that was something I really didn't know about, and
I just felt like she was so innovative behind the
scenes there and such a big part of making that happen.
Speaker 9 (34:31):
And it really just it's.
Speaker 7 (34:33):
Awesome to see how that's come to life now in
later years, because I feel like when that came out,
it was like so like people didn't understand it, they
didn't know what to make of it, and now it's
just it has such a cult following and it really
is like the epitome of like a group of small
(34:54):
people making an independent film that like would have effects
long long after it ever came out, and like they
didn't know it was going to be like that when
they were making it, but they were just following a vision,
and like, I don't know, I feel like that really
offers a lot to learn for people, because like you
(35:15):
got to be true to yourself and follow your visions
and your dreams and like not care about what other
people think.
Speaker 9 (35:22):
You know, that's a really big deal.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
When twin Peaks originally aired, my mom would watch it,
and I'm an only child, so just whatever she watched,
I would watch with her. She did not have the
wherewith all of Claire's mother to.
Speaker 8 (35:36):
Be like some of these things might be just for
a child.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
So I remember just watching it every week, and I
was probably like six or seven when the show aired,
and when Catherine came on screen when we had log
Lady time, I knew it was time. I was like, oh,
we're watching the who called the Pretty Blonde Teenager show?
Speaker 8 (36:02):
But and I loved it.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I felt like just like a mystery, like of the
whole who Killed Laura Palmer thing? One thing my mom
is listening, so don't take this too personal, mom, But
we did watch a Raserhead at.
Speaker 8 (36:15):
Some point during that same period of time, and I.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Did not I did not have like the put together
that this is like a David Lynch thing or understand
it or anything.
Speaker 8 (36:24):
I was just like, I'm gonna have nightmares.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I'm gonna I'm gonna have nightmares.
Speaker 8 (36:30):
Why are why are we watching this?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
But then rewatching it as an adult, it's like I
can see the brilliance of it and the layers to it,
and how amazing it was that they were able to
pull all of that together.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Yeah, I really was there's so many David. I'm pretty
sure that all of David Lynch's works. The first time
I saw it, I really didn't know what I just
watched and didn't know how to feel about it at all.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, when I was in eighth grade, we would rent
Mall Holland Drive from Blockbuster like every weekend, and I
had no idea what.
Speaker 8 (37:07):
It was about, no idea what it was about.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I was just like we'd watch it like over and
over again and loved it, but like it took me
years to even like kind of form a theory of.
Speaker 8 (37:19):
What was what you were watching. Yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 9 (37:24):
That's so beautiful too.
Speaker 7 (37:25):
About so many of these works is they leave so
much for up for interpretation and for your own understanding,
and you can kind of take from it like important
things that mean something to you specifically. And I feel
like it's so vast and how that's affected people.
Speaker 10 (37:43):
I think that's kind of a point. Yeah, like not everything,
there's kind of a beauty to fully understanding everything.
Speaker 9 (37:53):
Yeah, life is so I should film be any less.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
You know, it gives you an opportunity to form your
own opinions about things in your own way of looking
at life.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah, it definitely brings everyone into the story because then
you get to take your own experiences. Like me watching
Malholland Drive, I was like, this is so about me
and the thirteen year old boy.
Speaker 8 (38:18):
I have a crush on.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
But just and I think that Catherine really understood that too.
She gave like us, such a good performance, but she
also left room for the mystery and interpretation, whether it
was on screen or on stage or behind the scenes.
So I want to do a quick plug for the
(38:43):
film for everyone who hasn't seen it. Are we Is
it still in theaters at all or we just we're
running it on demand now.
Speaker 10 (38:54):
So we are doing more screenings. We have an upcoming
screening at the Mahoning Drive that's in.
Speaker 9 (39:01):
That's Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (39:05):
Okay, and that's Soldo.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
Yeah, Tessa will be there, the director will be there
doing a Q and A. And then so we have.
Speaker 9 (39:15):
Gohead so Little ray Wise will be there too.
Speaker 8 (39:18):
Oh cool.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (39:22):
And then we have the Danish premiere coming up that's
September twenty fifth, and it's doing they're doing like a
Denmark burlesque show before the screening of the movie.
Speaker 8 (39:31):
Amazing.
Speaker 10 (39:33):
And then the digital release came out yesterday, so anybody
can go and order it on the website. It's I
Know Katherine dot Com and that is with Joma Film.
So Andy Ludgren, who's in the movie, her and her
husband created this independent film platform where you can stream.
There are movies along with ours of yesterday.
Speaker 8 (39:56):
So it's exciting, Okay, awesome.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
So people shouldn't like go on Amazon Prime for it,
they want to go to I Know Katherine dot Com
for it, right, Okay, I'll make sure to I'll make
sure to link to that in the episode description. Thank
you all so much for joining us. We have one
minute before this thing is going to cut us off.
(40:18):
But thank you for letting us know about a cookie
as Cookie as she was called, and knowing Jenny, knowing
Catherine from the sixties in San Francisco, so you got
to really just experience everything together.
Speaker 8 (40:38):
Yeah yeah, and Tessa.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Thank you so much for helping put all of this together.
We'll make a great social media post tomorrow.
Speaker 8 (40:48):
I'm going to edit this episode.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Today and put in some soundbites that I was sent
and I think it'll be a wonderful episode. But thank
you all so much for being on Broad's next door. Well,
I'm all great, broads, You're all great.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
Broad Broad's next door. I think it's great.
Speaker 8 (41:05):
Thank you so much, you so much.
Speaker 9 (41:08):
And be talking with you all. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yeah, me too, me too, all right, everybody, have a
wonderful day.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Thanks, bye bye.
Speaker 8 (41:25):
No, I'm just waiting for from.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
The Star stud at Hollywood Premiere to screens across the country.
From the first Laughter and Tears to one hundred on
Rotten Tomatoes.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
People are getting to know Katherine the love Lady actors
they want to die on stage.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
One of my closest friends is Katherine Colson.
Speaker 10 (41:45):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Katherine wanted to die at Twin Peaks.
Speaker 10 (41:49):
She's a shawman.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Take everybody with her on that journey.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It's time watch it now exclusively at I Know Katherine
dot com.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
My name is David Lee Israel. We are in the
red Room. I believe.
Speaker 6 (42:05):
I spend my days taking amazing people from all over
the world up to Twin Peaks, showing inless sites. I
won a best tour in the Pacific Northwest. Troop Advisor
sent me an emails saying congratulations.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Here in the top ten percent of things.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
To do worldwide for me. All the locations would kind
of like their own characters, you know, especially growing up
around here, so.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
I want to know where everything was.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
I talk about this film daily with all my clients, like,
this is gonna be this really cool documentary and coming
out about the Log.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Lady and everybody freaks out. Oh I can't wait. I'm
so glad. I decided to bring my father.
Speaker 6 (42:39):
He can stop talking about it.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
He was like, he was so powerful. It was so amazing,
and it was for me too. I absolutely loved it.
To see Katherine in that light was just beautiful. Everybody's
gonna love this movie. I Know Katherine.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Pre order now at I Know Katherine dot com.
Speaker 11 (42:59):
Thank you, thanks so much for listening to another episode
of Broad's next Door.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
Thank you to Tessa, Jenny, and Claire. Make sure to
click the.
Speaker 11 (43:09):
Link in the episode description so you can watch I
Know the.
Speaker 8 (43:14):
Loglady for yourself.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Thank you also to Katherine Colson for leaving such an
incredible legacy that stays with us on our screens and
in our hearts. You can find me online at Danielle
Screama or at Broad's next Door. You can email me
at broadsnextdoor dot com or broadsnextdoor at gmail dot com.
Speaker 11 (43:38):
You can also slide into my DMS. I am going
to end this episode with some quotes from the loglady,
so enjoy.
Speaker 8 (43:49):
I'll talk to you very soon. Bye. I think that's
going to come out.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I carry a log. Yes, is it funny to you?
Speaker 9 (44:06):
It is not to me.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd.
Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind
the human beings veried behavior?
Speaker 4 (44:20):
I think not. Some take the time. Are they called detectives.
Speaker 8 (44:26):
I think that's going to come out.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Watch and see what life teaches.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Sometimes ideas like men jump up and say hello.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
They introduce themselves, these ideas with words? Are they words?
These ideas speak so strangely.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
All that we see in this world is based on
someone's ideas. Some ideas are destructive, some are constructive. Some
idea can arrive in the form of a dream. I
can say it again, Some ideas arrive in the form
of a dream. There is a sadness in this world,
(45:16):
for we are ignorant of many things. Yes, we are
ignorant of many beautiful things, things like the truth. So
sadness in our ignorance is very real. The tears are real.
What is this thing called a tear? There are even
tiny ducks, tear ducks to produce these tears. Should the
(45:39):
sadness occur, and the day when the sadness comes, then
we ask, will this sadness which makes me cry? Will
this sadness that makes me cry my heart out? Will
it ever end? The answer, of course is yes, one
day the sadness will end. Even the ones who laugh
(46:06):
are sometimes caught without an answer. These creatures who introduce themselves,
but we swear we have met them somewhere before.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Yes, look in the mirror. What do you see? Is
it a dream or a nightmare?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Are we being introduced against our will? Are they mirrors?
Speaker 4 (46:28):
I can see the smoke, I can smell the fire.
The battle is drawing nigh.
Speaker 9 (46:37):
I think that's going to come out.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I play my part on life stage. I tell what
I can to form the perfect answer. But that answer
cannot come before all are ready to hear.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
So I tell what I can to form the perfect answer.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Sometimes my anger at the fire is evident, Sometimes it
is not anger. Reading it may appear as such, but
could it be a clue?
Speaker 4 (47:03):
The fire I speak of is not a kind fire,
I think that's going to come out. Beauty is in
the eye of the beholder. Yet there are those who
open many eyes. Eyes are the mirror of the soul.
Someone has said, so we look closely at the eyes
(47:23):
to see the nature of the soul.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Sometimes when we see the eyes, those horrible times, when
we see the eyes, eyes that have no soul, then
we know a darkness. Then we wonder where is the beauty?
There is none if the eyes are souls. A drunken
(47:52):
man walks in a way that is quite impossible for
a sober man to imitate, and vice versa it an
evil man has a way, no matter how clever to
the trained.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Eye, his way will show itself. Am I being too secretive?
No one can never answer questions at the wrong moment. Life,
like music, has a rhythm.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
This particular song will end with three sharp sounds, like
deathly drumbeats.
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