Turning 40: Aging, Addiction, and All the Good Stuff (with Creative Sobriety)

Grab your repressed memories from your 20s and the unfounded fears of your 30s as we"re joined by Kristen Bear of Creative Sobriety to gain a broader understanding of why turning 40 is actually pretty awesome. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
I was told very early on in my career that
my that I had a shelf life, I had a
cell by date and that, and I was told that
that was going to be in my mid thirties, and
I didn't know. And I was really like affected by
that and very very scared for a long time, and
it stressed me out a lot. And this wonderful thing
happened in the last few years. Roles for women have

(00:22):
really opened up, and it seems like that whole concept
is finally being revealed for the absolute garbage that it is.
And so I was really happy because turning forty to
me just it just felt like a gift, like not
more so than any other thing, but just because it's
really nice to be here and it's nice to feel
like the future can hold many wonderful things and not

(00:44):
just and now you will turn and turn into dust
and now you just before, but but first it will
become invisible, which was the story for a really long time.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
And that's nonsense. It's just nonsense. I feel really.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Great about it, Like I'm one of those people that
as I approach like a milestone age, I'll just start
saying it anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
So I just am saying like, yeah, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Forty, Like I know I'm not, but I but I
feel like I might as well just start saying it
because I also, like I've kind of been obsessed with
like just finally becoming a grown up for since I
was like a like a baby baby.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Being a grownup is awesome. It's so awesome. It's so
not overrated.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hell, it's so great.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
Hello, neighbors, lovers, friends, at anyone who's ever feared aging.
I'm Danielli Scrima here with Kristin Bear of Creative Sobriety
for a special Creative Sobriety Broad's next Door crossover episode,
and today we are.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Talking about aging and being forty. Kristin just turned forty
within like the last month, right July second h and.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
I turned forty in January, So we are going to
talk about that, Kristen. And it's so nice to talk
to you again. I feel like we haven't done like
a show together in like almost two months.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
I know it's been it's been a hot minute. And
it's so good to see you, especially to talk about
this because we share this this monumental year. At twenty
twenty five, we both crossed the threshold of forty, and
I just can't wait to hear like, how you've been
feeling about it and what it's been like.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
So for me, the reality has been so much different
for the expectation not so much when I was like
by like the time I was thirty nine, you know,
I didn't think I was going to turn forty and
feel completely different, but I did feel like there would
be a lot of like this stigma around the age.
I was like, what if I go back on dating apps,
which I haven't done yet, But I'm like, then if

(02:46):
I do, I have to put down that I'm forty,
I'm in like this whole other bracket. So I think
I was a little bit worried about just like and
a lot of times you hear people say the phrase
a forty year old woman and they say it was
like such animosity.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
So for me, I was like very hesitant about that.
What about you? How did you feel going into it? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (03:11):
I think, well, first of all, I mean how I
thought about forty when I was twenty five, right, is
so different than how I see obviously forty now, but
also even five years ago, it's completely changed for me.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
So yeah, I think I was.

Speaker 5 (03:29):
Approaching this age with more hopeful expectation than I ever
anticipated I would.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I thought it would be.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
Way more you know, unsettling, but it's actually like just
feels super powerful.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
You know.

Speaker 5 (03:46):
I think a lot has changed in my life in
the last few years, and so turning forty just feels
like like a power move now.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
It's not like oh shit or downhill. You know, how
old were you when you got sober?

Speaker 5 (03:59):
I was thirty four, So yeah, I got sober in
twenty twenty, and honestly, that changed my mentality about so
many things. But I think definitely about age because when
I got sober, I feel like everything in my life
became new again in a way, and I started feeling
so much more youthful. I started looking so much more youthful,

(04:20):
And so for me, they're very interconnected. It's just like
so much bullshit fell off when I got sober, And
that's how I feel now about turning forty, Like so
much bullshit has fallen off, and you know, the things
that I cared about so much ten years ago or
twenty years ago, like I just I don't anymore.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah, there's definitely like a difference with like expectations drink
in twenty twenty one, and I like really started to
cut back in twenty twenty. But then what I would
do is I would still drink on dates or I
would still have a drink if it was like a
special occasion, and it was kind of just to appease
people socially. And I think I told you about my

(05:01):
last drink, which was when I was on a film
set in twenty twenty one and we had wrapped for
the day and every single other person was drinking. So
I was like, I'll just have a beer, So I
have a beer. I end up getting drunk because I
have no tolerance. I left my phone in a bathroom
we were in La Luckily the bartender had it. But
then I was just like, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Doing this anymore.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
And at first, like this social pressure was hard for
me because I was around so many people in their
thirties and even forties or twenties that were like heavy drinkers,
and they kind of like took it personally, which I've
noticed kind of happens when when I quit anything, is
that other people take that personally. But now, like being

(05:44):
this age, it's so much easier not care. And also
for me not to take it personally that they are
taking it personally, like not to see it as like
a deficit of myself, because I think a lot of
times people think, well, I made this personal decision, so
I'm judging.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
You for it.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
But it's really not that at all. It's just for
me personally. I know it's not the best thing. It's
not good for my body. It's not good for me
mentally above all else. It was horrible for my skin, horrible,
Like I feel like quitting drinking just like so many
of like the wrinkles I had, just like from I

(06:22):
don't know if it's from worrying or being so dehydrated
or what. Just feel like it just like gave me
like ten years back.

Speaker 5 (06:31):
Honestly, Oh my god, It's incredible what damage alcohol does
to our skin. And it's like we we know that,
I think, like we kind of know that, but we
don't really know that until you stop drinking and you
just see how much life comes back into your skin
and like how much easier it is to just maintain

(06:53):
your body and like your vitality you know when you're
when you're not drinking. But the other thing too, Like
you were talking about people taking your sobriety or your
choice not to drink as like a personal attack or something.
I think that is especially present when you're a person
who has.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Just decided to quit.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
You know.

Speaker 5 (07:14):
It's like it's very easy for people to wrap their
heads around, Oh, Kristen, you know, crashed her car into
a tree and like killed a person. You know, so
obviously obviously she doesn't drink anymore. But when you're like, hey,
I just decided I'm going to try a different lifestyle
and see what happens, you know, when I like put
a little more intention into my health and all those things.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Like people get real triggered by.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
That because it's like, well, basically that means they could
do that too, but they're not, and it's it's not
an attack on them. But I think people get they
they see it that way because it's out of the norm.
It's like out of their little box of what they
have decided means a sober person is right.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Definitely.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
I also like a lot of people asking me, like
what happened, like expecting there to be like some big catalyst,
like a dui or hitting rock bottom, and it's like no, no,
I had my fair share of rock bottoms, and I
never quit drinking during any of them, Like I never, like,
if anything, I doubled down harder because I was just
so stubborn, like as if like no, no, no, I

(08:20):
can make this worse. You think this is rock bottom,
Well we'll see, just wait and see what else I
can do.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
So it's definitely it's definitely interesting to talk.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
About it with other people though, Like I like when
people ask me like how to quit or come to
me while they're quitting, and being able to like give
that advice and kind of just be like, you don't
need a reason beyond even wanting to.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, yeah, you don't.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
You don't need a reason beyond wanting to, And you
don't need a reason that anyone else deems like good enough.
You know, I think like anything, any negative consequence, any
negative feeling that comes from you're drinking, or like the
environment you're in when you're drinking, that is enough to
be like I think I'm gonna take a break.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
You know.

Speaker 5 (09:07):
It's like and also we live in a time where
it's much more friendly to that mentality, and that's becoming
more normalized to not to drink, and you know, they
have non alcoholic drinks at bars now, and like it's
just way more normal to meet a person in their twenties, thirties,
forties who's just decided to not drink, whether it's for

(09:29):
a little bit or totally quit or whatever.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's just it's good to see that.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
But of course there are people who the minute you say, oh, yeah,
I'm sober or I don't drink, the first question is
well why you know, yeah, like they're just expecting the
worst possible scenario, and it's like, sorry to disappoint you.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
But definitely I also got it, like I quit weed
at the end of April, and like, for so I'm
at like the three month and that one, I know,
is like super touchy for people because and then I
had so many people that would argue with me and
be like no, no, no, there are health benefits to it.
There are this, there're that, And I was like, well
not for me, because I'm just high twenty four to

(10:14):
seven and I have to stay high to not be enraged.
Like it wasn't like I even got high anymore. I
needed to be high to be at baseline. And like
that felt horrible too, because if I would have to
like do something for twelve hours where I couldn't vape
or smoke or anything. Then I was so irritable and

(10:35):
I was just using it to like totally numb out.
So I was like, for me, like I'm beyond the
point of getting any health benefit from this, Like the
only thing I missed SAT for is like period cramps.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
But I don't have like a middle ground.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
With it where I could just be like I'm gonna
have a joint when I have my period, because for
me that will turn into just I'll have a joint
with my more coffee, So which is how I know,
like it's something that for me is not good. And
then like I knew how much better I felt from
quitting drinking, so it was just like the whole keeping

(11:13):
like a clear head and then wanting to see like
how much better I could feel. And I feel like
that's something I wouldn't have been able to do at
twenty five or thirty or eighteen or a younger age,
because like life seemed like it would be so much
longer to me at a lot of those ages, Like

(11:34):
I felt like forty, yeah, we got here, quis so yeah,
it just seemed so so far off, like it would
be this completely different thing. I imagined it like very
golden girls or like just stuff you'd see on television
of like I'd have like six kids running around and

(11:54):
just this very very different life when my life in.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
A lot of ways is is In a lot.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
Of ways, it's very different, but in a lot of
ways it's like the same. Like I didn't think i'd
be the same person in so many ways.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
My god, little me, I don't know, teenage me, little Kristen,
if you asked her, what's forty gonna look like?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, I think I would have said something.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
About a husband, kids, you know, doing some random job.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Like I don't know, I can't remember.

Speaker 5 (12:27):
I wanted to be a lawyer, I think for a
long time when I was like my teens, and yeah,
I mean I'm you know, I did just get married
this year, but for the second time, so you know,
that's a little different than probably young Kristin imagine. But
I don't have kids, and I don't know if I
will have kids, and very much focused on my career,

(12:50):
which is totally different than I imagine when I was a kid.
So it's like, yeah, I don't know, I just I
don't feel like there are any limitations on my life
in anyway. You know, I don't feel like me being
forty is anything other than like proof that I've now
put in some real time and I can be taken seriously.

(13:10):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
I think it just feels empowering.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
It is so empowering on the kids things. So that's
a weird one for me with aging talk, because like
I always felt like there'd be so much more time
to have kids, and I always wanted to have kids,
and I think I still do, but now I'm like, Okay,
if you want to do this now, it's really like
the next five years.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
I'm like, I got to crack.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Down and then make that happen because we do have
a window on that. But I know so many people who,
like so many of my friends who didn't have kids
until their late thirties early forties, Like I know very
few people who had kids before thirty five at this point,
and I feel like that's something that's so different now.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah it is.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
I mean we see it all the time. But even
even my mom didn't have my youngest sister until she
was thirty eight. I know my grandmother on my dad's side,
her mom had her third kid when she was like
forty two, naturally, way back.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
In the day.

Speaker 5 (14:15):
So it's like and then of course now it's so normal,
like we see women all the time in their early
forties having kids, And I mean, I'm kind of with
you in the sense that it's kind of a weird
one for me, because on any given day, my thoughts
about it can be different, you know. I think for
most of my life I always wanted kids and really

(14:36):
really wanted them and really thought that was going to
be part of my life. And then I think as
I kept getting older, like especially in the last few years,
like the last five ten years, I don't know, it's
just kind of been like I think, if I'm gonna
have kids, I will know it's time because I will
want that more than I want any of the other

(14:56):
things I'm focused on. And when I do feel that way,
I will prioritize that and I won't, you know, ignore that,
And so far I just haven't. I haven't wanted that
more than some of the other things I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
And that's exactly where I am with it, because if
I really really want something, I get so goal focused
and oriented on it.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
I did do like when I turned forty.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
My insurance offers like a fertility checkup that you can
do to see like to if your egg count and
all of that. So I did that to just see if, like, Okay,
is this still even an option? And they were like, yes,
it is. You still have eggs, your follicles are good, this,
that and the other. And then they were like do
you want to go to the follow up appointment? And
I was like, no, that's good. That's enough to necessary

(15:43):
for like this year, because it then it would be
such another change, like to have to prioritize someone else
more than myself, kind of which I feel like would
be the biggest change of all for me.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:00):
I mean, there's so many things about being a mom
that are so appealing to me and inspiring to me
and something I think that would be really natural for me.
But then there are so many things that I know
I just don't have the capacity for. And it's like
you said, you know, it's like I realized that my
window is slowly closing, but I don't. I don't like

(16:23):
looking at it like that. I like looking at it
more of you know, how interesting, how interesting that I've
gotten to this point in my life where I haven't
felt incredibly pulled towards that or like, you know, haven't
felt like it was urgent to do it.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
So I don't know. I kind of just trust that
it's going to work out the way it's supposed to.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
That's the best way. That's the best way to look
at it, honestly.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
Yeah, I don't know if you've ever heard of Ruby Warrington.
She is a writer and a podcaster, and she did
The Sober Curious was her book that kind of like
started the Sober Curious thing, But then she also wrote
a book called Women Without Kids, and she did this

(17:12):
whole podcast series which is fascinating if you ever want
to listen to that. But you know, one of the
interesting parts of her research was that an overwhelming majority
of the women she interviewed who ended up choosing not
to have kids or didn't have kids, you know, for
any reason. I don't think it was like people who
really wanted them and couldn't have them, but it was

(17:34):
basically everyone else who had not had kids, and the
overwhelming majority had zero regret about it later in life.
But there were a lot of women who did have
kids who often regretted things they did not do.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
My kids. Definitely see that.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
I can definitely see that because I know so many
people in their fifties and sixties who are, like I
have no regrets on not having kids, or they'll do
something like which is so appealing to me, like taking
teenage kids to foster, like foster teenage girls and stuff.
So I always remind myself that even like if I
don't give birth, there are always other options of having

(18:14):
like a parenting experience and in some kind of way,
and like even if I end up with like twenty dogs,
like I think that would still be like deeply, deeply gratifying.
I've been thinking about it a lot more because I've
been with my parents for like the last month of
staying with them, and I keep thinking how different it

(18:34):
would be if like there was a baby here and
they had like a grandchild. So just like thinking about like,
but I like that. That's one thing I like about
the forties is that there's still so many possibilities because
I really thought by like this time, it would all
have to be set in stone and decided and just

(18:55):
like that forever. Because I think those are the examples
we saw for a really long time, especially in media
and stuffs like by the time, there was even that
some movie called This Is forty that came out with
like Paul Rudd. I remember, I think like twenty ten
or something, and it just made it seem like you
have kids and like you're miserable and you're sneaking outside

(19:18):
for cigarettes, and just like.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
The wine moms.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Wine moms are like a whole subculture, like where just
you're so miserable that wine is like your only solace
and that stuff always scared the shit out of me.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Also, like having kids in this current environment scares me.
Like when I was a.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Kid, like school shootings were not a thing until like
we had Columbine and then there wasn't much after that
for a while. But when Sandy Hook happened in twenty twelve,
I was actually nannying. I nannied a lot when I
was in my twenties, and that scared the hell out
of me. I was like, I'm such an anxious person.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
I was like, how would I send my kids to
school right now?

Speaker 4 (20:04):
So that's like a negative aspect, but it's also something
like I've thought about.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
Oh yeah, I think about those things too. I mean
I also think about like I think about just the
overall state of the world and how honestly, on any
every other day kind of feels like we're just, you know,
teetering on the edge of the end of time.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
So, you know, I don't know, I think that.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
You know, I have a niece who is five, and
I get to spend a lot of time with her,
and I also get to see firsthand how much is
required to like keep her alive and happy and like thriving,
you know, and my sister is incredible at it. But

(20:49):
it's also always a good reminder of like, yeah, I
don't know if I have it in me for that
right now, and if that changes, I'll let you know.
But yeah, we we experienced Columbine in what seventh grade,
and that felt like something that could never happen. It
just you know, it was I remember sitting in my

(21:10):
class and like a teacher rolled in a TV and
was like showing us the footage and it was just
like terrifying, terra It.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
Happened in four twenty and I skipped school to try
and smoke weed. And we tried to smoke and like
none of us knew how so we couldn't get hide,
which is just so thirteen year old me, but like
it just seemed so insane. And then there for a
while there was like this bullying narrative and I was like, well,

(21:39):
nothing like that will happen, which they weren't bullied, like
that ended up not being true them, but that was
like something that circulated. So I remember thinking, well, nothing
like that will ever happen to me because I don't
bully anyone. And then the rest of the time, when
I was like in high school or anything like now,
when I talk to like my younger listeners and stuff,
they all start talking about like their school shooting drills
or the school shootings were in. Like I've had comment

(22:02):
sections where people were like, oh I was in this shooting,
I was in that shooting, and I'm like, what the hell,
Like it's just so such a completely different thing, or
like people sending their kids to school with like bulletproof
backpacks and teaching them how to cover themselves in blood
and fake being dead, and it's just like what the So.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, it make scares me, for.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
It makes you a little hesitant to be like, yeah,
let's let's start a family and send them off into
this into this world, you know.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yeah, So they're definitely but is there anything you haven't
liked about getting older or turning forty hmmm.

Speaker 5 (22:50):
I mean, honestly, like, no, I'm embracing it, you know.
I think like it's I can see my I can
see my body chain, I can see my skin changing.
And there was a time when those things, I mean,
I would have done anything at all costs to avoid
that in every way possible. And I'm just becoming way

(23:12):
more comfortable with this idea that I am a natural
human woman and I am meant to change, you know,
I am not meant to look twenty five forever. And
so you know, I like feeling healthy and I like
looking good. I think you and I have talked about
this too, Like there are things I'm gonna do because
I want to look good. I want to feel good

(23:33):
about myself. But so much of that I've learned is
really based upon like some of the inner work I
do without, you know, to avoid sounding cheesy, but it's true.
It's like, you know, taking time to like invest in
the things that make my soul happy.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
I think reflect on the outside.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
So I feel like I look younger and I feel
younger when I'm like truly happy and like truly you know,
embodied in my true self, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Definitely.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
There's only one thing that's made me freak out, and
it was not the thing that I was expecting, and
that is in December of this of last year, so
like the month before I turned forty, I got my
first gray hairs and it was just like these whole
strands around my hairline that turned gray. And I was
always so excited about that in theory, like I was like, oh,

(24:28):
I'm gonna love that.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
I'm gonna love getting gray hair.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
And then I was like, no, absolutely not, absolutely, absolutely not,
this is not happening yet. So that was a big
surprise for me because like other stuff you talked about,
like the body and stuff like I like how my
body has changed, like it's harder for me to lose
weight now, and stuff like that, which I never thought

(24:51):
that in a million years I would ever be okay
with or like I have to work out harder to
look the way that I've always kind of looked. When
I was younger, it was much easier. It would be like, Okay,
I'll cut out soda and then it's fine, or I'll
but like working out, that's definitely different. But like all
of that I kind of like because it makes me

(25:12):
feel like more womanly in a way like it it
makes me feel like more mature in a way that
I like. But the gray hair thing is one that
sent me into a spiral.

Speaker 5 (25:22):
Yeah, I started getting gray hair when I was in
my late twenties. I found my first gray hair, so
I've been living with It's never been anything that I
needed to cover up until like within the last five years.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
But and it's still not a ton.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
But if I don't color my hair, like I'll have,
you know, all grays right here and everything.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
I just think because I think that I know, because
like I saw a lot of my friends get gray
and stuff, and then like when it hadn't happened to
me yet, I think that I really just part of
my brain like thought, well, I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's not coming for me.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
They got me on all this other stuff, so the
gray hair is just gonna skip over me. But so
that's sorry.

Speaker 5 (26:06):
I will say that I get some lower back pain
that I didn't have before.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
My knees will crack sometimes and I'm like, oh cool,
I didn't know that that was a thing that would.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Ever ever happen. Yeah, yeah, that stuff is real.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
My sister, my little sister makes fun of me because
sometimes I'll stand up just from sitting in a normal
chair or the couch and I will just like crack
in like three places and she will look at me
so insane.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
I'm like, that's not no, that's not normal.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
So that's the funny stuff, the stuff that you kind
of like don't expect, because I didn't really expect that either,
but I feel you on like the lower back pain,
or I'll be on my computer for too long and
then I'm.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Like, what did I do to my neck? Oh?

Speaker 4 (26:52):
So it's just like the aging stuff that I wasn't
wasn't really expecting, But then like the gray hair thing,
I wasn't expecting to freak out on either, and it's
not even as much as an aging thing is kind
of just like I don't know what I need to
do things.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
So if anyone's watching this on video, that's what happened here.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
So it's like I'm gonna blood my grace which come
in like golden brown. They don't, They're like just come
in white and like a completely different texture.

Speaker 5 (27:21):
So well, I think your hair looks great. Honestly, I
think you did a really great job.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
And we both cut our hair. We both cut our
hair like right before forty. That was another thing. We
both got the mind's grown out a bit now, but
yours is fresh or you did yours last month right.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
Yeah, literally, like yeah, three weeks ago or something. Yeah,
So yeah, I needed a change, like I needed to
mark the occasion.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Did you do not like cut your hair too?

Speaker 5 (27:51):
But yeah, I just I felt this need to like, okay,
we are I need to fully look and feel like
I am stepping into a brand new era.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
I also got rid of blonde because I was doing
blonde from like thirdy. I started doing blonde around like
thirty five during COVID out of kindly kind of just
out of boredom, and I always just loved blonde. But then,
like when I turned right before I turned forty, I
was like, I'm going to go back to dark, to
my natural color because it felt really good to me

(28:19):
instead of being like, okay, let's have this other whole
high upkeep thing.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, so I.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
Went back to like dark and then cut it short,
and it just kind of felt like cutting away like
a lot of the dread and bad stuff that had
happened in my thirties, and like because all my thirties
I had long hair. I cut my hair short once
when I was twenty five, also after being blonde, because
I just like it was so dead, so I cut

(28:48):
it really short, and then I regretted it. At that time,
I regretted it, like right away, I was like what
had I done? But this time I was like, this
is amazing. Like I just felt like very chic, very
like and drockstar like.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
So yeah, it feels very go ahead.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
No, it just felt like an emotional release for me too,
like just literally cutting things out, cutting things off.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
Yeah, like a physical manifestation of like I am done
with this. You know. It's very much felt like that
to me, and I cut my hair. I cut my
hair once short, short with bangs into the French bob,
at the end of twenty nineteen, right before I got sober.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
So it was really.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
Done from a dark place, if I'm honest, like she
was searching for something.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
And you know, like cutting your hair when you're.

Speaker 5 (29:49):
In like on the brink of madness is not the
same reward as like cutting your hair from a place
of like power, and you know, not at all. Yeah,
So I needed to reclaim that moment for myself because
I liked the haircut, but I was also like desperately
needed to get sober.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
I had like the puffy face nightmare.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
It was not cute, and so I'm like I want
to have that moment again, but in a really good place.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
The cordis all face is like a real thing. Like
I didn't realize like how much puffiness. Like sometimes I'll
look at pictures and I'm like I had so much
more facial volume than I'm like a lot of that
is your face just literally being swollen from drinking and
being hungover the next day and like not knowing to
drink water, and now like I keep how drink, like
keep track of like how much water I drink, and

(30:35):
like I try and get like a certain amount of
protein and stuff. But that all makes me feel really good.
It's not like something I'm doing to spite myself, because
there were so many like glow up things that I
did because I hated myself, Like even when I went blonde,
like I was trying to like spite myself, like not
be myself, be like, Okay, your hair's always been dark,

(30:56):
so we're gonna go platinum blonde and just try and
be this different person externally to avoid working on anything internally.
And now I feel like I just have such a
good mind body connection that I never had, that I
didn't have for like any of my twenties and most
of my thirties.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, I don't know if you feel this at all.

Speaker 5 (31:22):
It's something I've been thinking about actually a lot, And
maybe I'll write something about this because I think it's
there's so this feeling of getting older and turning forty.
It I feel like I pedestalize my physical appearance.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Way less than I did when I was younger.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
Like I no longer feel like my looks are the
most valuable or interesting thing about me.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Like I just I don't know how to articulate this. Actually,
I think it's.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
Like feeling like a whole part, Like there's like an
integration that happens where like like the whole, like you,
it's just being more of a whole person instead of
feeling like everything in my life depends on how I
look and that's all people are going to care about, Like, yeah,
you still truly believe that so much? Well, if I
don't look like this, these people aren't going to like me,

(32:21):
And so much of it was just me projecting to
because it was a kind of an insecurity that I
didn't have like a way to articulate, because it's harder
to just figure that out when you're miserable. So but yeah,
I mean it's something that I just kind of like
a lot of the time, and like, you know what

(32:41):
it's like online people will criticize the way we look,
they'll find something, they'll find absolutely something, and yeah, I
care so much less now and before it used to
devastate me, like as if they didn't like me as
a person, And I've really learned that people who don't
like them so elves probably aren't gonna like me either,

(33:03):
and that helped a lot because I would just be like, well,
why doesn't this person like me? Why are they doing that?
Why are they telling me my lips look horrible? Like
just like the little, the smallest details, And then I'd
be like devastated over it.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
And now I'm like, well, I'm sorry that you feel
that way.

Speaker 5 (33:20):
Weirdoh so yeah, and also like you probably just also
don't care as much anymore, like if someone doesn't like you,
you know, I mean, that's how I feel like one
person not liking me would haunt me for ever, you know,
for so long. I'm just trying to figure out, well,
how can I make this person like me? Whether it

(33:41):
was a friend or like a guy that I wanted
to date, or anything like a job, I didn't get.
It was just like I would obsess like, well, why
didn't they like me? What can I do different? And
now I think I'm just way more comfortable being like, huh,
you know, well not their cup of tea, let's move on.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
I that sucks. Sucks for you, man, But oh my god,
especially with dating.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
I did it with friendships and work too, But with dating,
even if I didn't like a guy that much, as
soon as I realized he didn't like me, it became
like my mission, like my object to like me some
trash ass man in love with me.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
And now I look back and I'm.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
Just like, like him, not liking you was a blessing
that you should have taken and run with, but instead
it was like, well, what about myself?

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Can I change? And oh I like this band too,
And it's just such an exhausting, exhausting thing to go through.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
God, I mean I did that I would obsess over
these just rats of men, you know, and looking back,
it's like I can see so I can see so clearly,
And it was exactly that. It was like, well, if
I can get this person to like me who doesn't
like me, then that will mean something about me, like

(34:58):
that I'm not believing about me myself right now, and
the knots I would turn myself into, Oh my god,
you saying like I like the same band as you
literally send chills up my mind because I would turn
myself into whatever girl I thought would was what this
guy was looking for.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
And then as soon as he did like me, as
soon as I was in.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
A relationship with him, I would just be like panic
and like yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
That's the same thing, like be like, oh you like
me back now?

Speaker 4 (35:27):
Okay, on onto onto the.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Next and then I'd be like, what's wrong with me?
What's wrong with me?

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Which, like I do, I would like to know what
was wrong with me, But all the time, like I
would just like pursue someone for so long and change
so much of myself until I was their dream girl.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Would be like what have I done? Because I would.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
Realize that we really didn't have that much in Common
and I really didn't like that band I pretended to
like or any of that stuff. And I'm like, well,
what do I do now? Now I can't just fake
this forever? So and I had branding up with Well.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
Yeah, then you get in a fight, you know, at
like two am over Chinese food and you're like, I
don't even like Oasis, Like you're such a loser, you know,
and a whole life really because you've just been acting.
You know.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
That's another reason I would drink a lot. It was like,
what's what I said?

Speaker 4 (36:22):
When I was still drinking was pretty much only on
dates because I went out with so many people who
were heavy drinkers, and it was like, well, they drink,
so I'll drink to impress them and show them how
much I can drink. And then I'd be like this
guy is an alcoholic, like so and just be like
totally shocked, like, oh my god, I'm dating an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
How did this happen?

Speaker 4 (36:45):
Where were the signs? And they were in front of
me the whole time?

Speaker 2 (36:49):
But oh god, yeah, I did that too.

Speaker 5 (36:53):
I remember dating this guy, I don't know, I must
have been like thirty one or something, and he was
just honestly, he was the real loser for a lot
of reasons. But all we did was drink, and so
I was like trying to be the cool party girl
and like stay up late. Oh it's fine, I have
to get up at seven am, Like I can still
stay up and party and like be cool and uh

(37:17):
he I found out pretty quickly that he had like
a pretty gnarly cocaine addiction, and so what did I do.
I became like the cool girl who was like, yeah,
like I'll I'll buy us a bag of cocaine at
one am, Like let me just go to the ATM.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Like truly, I didn't. I was. I was never like
a big coke person.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
I definitely did it at times, but it wasn't like
my drug of toys or anything like that.

Speaker 6 (37:43):
But like the fact that I I would do that
like that I would I would like pretend like I
enjoyed that and it was okay, but honestly, like I didn't,
it wasn't okay.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
Yeah, I definitely feel that, and then it's like after
you come out of it, you're like, what the hell
was that? It's like being possessed honestly, trying to be
the cool girl is like being possessed. It's like your
body being taken over, because it's just like and like
when I find people who like me for who I am,
it's like, whoa, I am cool without like all of

(38:16):
the pretending to like things that I'm not.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
And now I just don't pretend at all than to
like people. So I don't want to be like I'm
really we round.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
But right, do you have a big What advice would
you give to someone who's scared of turning forty?

Speaker 5 (38:41):
Man, I would say, like, first of all, the reason
you're scared is because you've bought into this age old
messaging towards women that you expire after you know, the
age of forty, and that you're no longer sexual desirable,
You're no longer you know, powerful with your femininity and

(39:04):
like all those things and those are all just blatant
lies that you've been sold to keep you buying beauty products,
and you know, like convinced that you should like just
stay at home and raise your kids and shut up
or something.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
You know.

Speaker 5 (39:19):
I just I think that we live in a different time,
We live in a completely different society and culture, and yeah,
there are still a lot of issues around messaging towards
women and aging and all that kind of stuff. But
it really is such a powerful time in our lives.
Like most women don't even reach their sexual peak until
they're in their late thirties and early forties.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Like your life, you have whatever life.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
Ahead of you that you want, you know, and like
I think the key to achieving all that is being
able to just block out the voices that really want
you to disappear.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Because I saw I saw something. I think it was
Jamila Jamil.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
She said something about how you know women are most
most dangerous in their forties because when you get to forty,
you know who.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
You are, you know what you want.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
You no longer feel the need to behave like a
little girl in order to get attention for men and
all these things. And you also have the cheat code
to give to younger women that hey, like, actually it
just gets better, right, So women in their forties are dangerous, powerful, sexy,
and I mean I certainly intend on being all of

(40:35):
those things.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Definitely.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
I think forty is going to be the best decade.
I really, I really do. I just think things are
going to keep getting better and I get so excited.
Like I was watching some made for TV show called
The Better Sister with Elizabeth Banks and what is justin

(40:58):
Jessica bial And and Jessica Biel's like forty five, Elizabeth
Banks is like fifty one, and it looks so good
and powerful, and it just made me so excited to
get even.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Older, like to get even older.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Like Elizabeth Banks was like fifty one, and she just
looked She's still such a good actor and she looked amazing,
and I was like, that's awesome that that's still eleven
years away. And it wasn't just like based only on
her physical appearance. It was the way she carried herself
and just like the personality she still showed even though
she played a recovering alcoholic in the show.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
You haven't watched it, recommend it? No? But I want to. Yeah,
so I well, it just like all right now, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
No. It just made me excited. It made me excited
to get even older. So I really I like that.

Speaker 5 (41:55):
I do too, And I think we are seeing more
examples of that, and it's important to see examples about
like the show you're talking about, and just female characters
in general in TV and film that are you know,
forty plus not living this like traditional standard prescribed life

(42:16):
for a woman, right, Like I want to see women
who like started a whole new career, whole new business
in their forties and fifties and like, you know, changed
everything and is having the best sex of her life
and discovered that she's really good at something new, like
all of these things, Like that's that's interesting to me, Right,
there's something interesting about like a hot twenty five year

(42:39):
old discovering herself, Like it's just no, yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
You don't even know who you are then, like, and
it just feels also like such a blessing to have
made it this far, because I have so many friends
who did it, who didn't make it to thirty five,
who didn't make it to thirty, who didn't make it
to forty, whether through addiction or getting sick or accidents happening.
But also I just didn't expect it to feel like

(43:05):
such a blessing to even be allowed to get to
this age and to get to keep going. So I
definitely look at it that way too, like it's such
a blessing to age however way you want it age,
And if you're gonna be like me and go for
twice a year botox or age completely however you want,

(43:28):
Like I just feel like there's space to kind of
do what you what you want, and that feels really good,
Like it feels good to take charge and it feels
good to know that I'm not doing it for anyone else.
I'm doing it for myself to be like the best
version of myself, Like the same with not drinking, Like

(43:49):
it wasn't for anyone else, it was for me to
just feel like the best version of myself. And there's
something so empowering in.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
That a thousand percent.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
And I'm with you on the like you know, twice
yearly botox thing actually really need botox right now. But
for me, the way that I approach it, and I
think the way I want to approach it is like
I will keep doing things like that as long as
I feel like the outcome reflected back to me is
like how I really feel like the authentic like you know, look,

(44:24):
it looks like me, It looks like me, and it
looks like how I feel. And I think, I hope,
I hope that I will be able to recognize when
it doesn't look like me and it feels like something else.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
We've talked about that before of not wanting to do
it where it gets to the point where it looks weird,
which I don't think we're close to that yet. I
think that we have like fifteen twenty years until you
get into like that range. But then it will be interesting,
like if we have this conversation fifteen years from now
and be like, oh my god, fifty five is so
much different than I thought it would be, because it's
kind of how I think it's going to be, like

(44:58):
I did to just looking because even that's like a
harder age for me to imagine. Fifty is a little
bit easier, but once I get to like fifty five,
I'm like, well, what the hell does that look like?
Both physically and mentally. But I think that they are
just like so many good examples now of people at
those ages still doing so much and like starting production
companies in their fifties or putting out their first novel

(45:21):
in their fifties, and it just shows that like it,
and then they look at us and they're like your babies,
you know. Like that's one of the reasons I like
having friends that are my gen X friends who are
older and they're like, oh my gosh, life doesn't even
start until forty and then I'm like, oh my god,
my life is just starting.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Like that's very exciting to me.

Speaker 5 (45:41):
It's important perspective, right, because if you're always just surrounded
by people who are your age or younger, you know,
you're going to have a different perspective.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
So I do too.

Speaker 5 (45:51):
I have a lot of older friends and people in
my life that I just value that perspective so much
because it keeps me really rooted and like, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Like there's such a big picture here to.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
Life, and we get so caught up on what is,
you know, youth, and it's like youth is such a
small piece of our life, right, Youth is meant to
be done and then you're meant to become this like
full fledged adult. But that's not even where it stops,
because then we go into these new phases of adulthood
where we're like just stepping into more and more truths.

(46:25):
I think of ourselves and the world, like we're figuring
out the world, you know, and then what we do
with that information as we get older is is cool.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
You know, I want to take no, I forgot what
I was saying, Please go ahead.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
It definitely is something I encourage everyone to do. It's
like to have an older mentor or older friends, or
like whether it's a sponsor or someone you admire in
like a field you work in, and just like get
advice for them because it's such a good perspective, because
there's still this societal pressure that like, you peak at

(47:03):
twenty five, and it's just so not true. I really
don't know anyone who peaked at twenty five, even though
when I was twenty five, I thought like I knew everything.
I felt like everything had already happened to me, and
I already knew everything.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
And it's not like if I could sit in.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
A room with that girl, I'd be like, so you
don't know anything yet.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Like yeah, truly.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
And I think that's also an antidote to like some
of the agism, is like sit and talk with older women,
read their books, you know, like take in their words
and their wisdom, because I think that's what's really also
helped me become like more excited about getting older because

(47:46):
I read these women writers who are in their fifties, sixties, seventies,
and it's like I.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Could never write like that right now, Like I have to.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
Earn that right and there's something really beautiful about like
earned wisdom, and I want that. I want earned wisdom,
you know. I don't want to just like be thirty forever.
And the other thing that you were saying too, about
how you feel blessed to just keep getting older because
you know so many people don't. And when you have

(48:16):
that perspective too, I think it just totally changes everything.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Like, you know, my mom is dead.

Speaker 5 (48:22):
My mom died when she was fifty nine, which is
pretty young, and you know that is like such a
I mean, you know, I talk about like an existential crisis.
When your mom dies pretty young, it's like wow, Okay,
so life doesn't last forever and like nothing is promised,
And you know, I think it gives me a lot

(48:45):
of motivation to just soak up this life that I
have and be grateful for every year that I get,
you know. And the other thing too is my mom's mom,
my maternal grandmother, died at forty one of mattisthetic breast cancer,
and so my mom my entire life I was growing up,

(49:07):
my mom was always so afraid that she would never
live past forty.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
So there's this really weird like.

Speaker 5 (49:16):
Thing that's in my brain instilled from my mom's anxiety
about grow like aging because of her mom dying so young.
So like, when I turned forty, you know, I feel
like I'm crossing some threshold that also my mom always
was super scared of, Like, I don't know, that'll be

(49:37):
interesting to see how it affects me when I get
closer to her age too when she died, if I
have the same feeling that she had all those years.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
But yeah, I'm on a rant right now.

Speaker 5 (49:47):
But all that to say that it is a blessing
to grow old, like right, I mean all we could absolutely.

Speaker 4 (49:56):
Yeah, absolutely, it did definitely puts things in perspective when
you've looked at death like that. I think that what
your mom did is like very natural that a lot
of people do that. Like you get to an age
your parents were and you kind of compare it to that,
and like, forty is not our mom's forty or our
grandmother's forty, but there's still those markers that are there

(50:19):
that we look at.

Speaker 5 (50:22):
Yeah, it's definitely not our mom's forty. I mean I
didn't have my mom's anything. I don't know what was
your mom doing at forty? What was her life looking like?

Speaker 4 (50:32):
My mom was forty and nineteen ninety six she turned forty,
so I was in going into sixth grade, so it
was just very, very different. She was running like this
store next to my dad's kung fu school, and she
was she was not very happy, and she didn't have

(50:52):
a lot of independence at that time. We had just
moved to Florida a few years before and she'd kind
of left all her family behind. And I mean, she
looked really good, my mom, like in her forties and fifties,
even she's in her sixties now. She just turned sixty
nine and always looks has always looked amazing. So that's
something I've always looked forward to, is the women in

(51:13):
my family. I feel like they didn't peek until their forties,
but mentally I watched a lot of them struggle and
have that feeling like they were trapped at forty. Like
one thing my mom would always say is I'm too
old to do this. I'm too old to do that.
And that's something that I always really tried to avoid
doing of being like.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I'm too old for this. Now, I'm too old for this.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
I'm already too old and stuck in my ways, and
to try to be just really flexible with it. So
that was like a good lesson I learned from her.
What about you, What was your mom like at forty?

Speaker 5 (51:48):
Yeah, at forty my mom had three kids, three daughters.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
She had a two year old and I was I.

Speaker 5 (51:58):
Guess sixteen, sixteen year old, a two year old, and
like a thirteen year old.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (52:04):
So she was like in all directions, just mom. And
she was still working then. I think she was like
selling real estate at the time, which she really liked.
And she also, you know, my mom was was hot.
I mean even after she had Maddie at thirty eight,
like she kept it together and she was like pretty,
you know, pretty strong, confident like lady. And I just

(52:26):
my mom also did that thing about kind of deflecting.
I remember we would give her compliments even in her
like fifties, like oh mom, you look so pretty, and
she'd be like, oh, mom's old, you know. And you
know she's like talking about herself in the third person
even too, to like remove herself even further.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
It's like no, no, no, like you were beautiful and you're.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
Allowed to feel beautiful just because you're fifty plus whatever,
Like no, you don't have to label yourself as old,
like you.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Can just be you and you at this this stage,
you know.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Yeah, I think they definitely had like the societal pressure
of being told that because think about how much we
still get it now, So like then it was just
like a whole twenty plus years ago, like a whole
other animal.

Speaker 5 (53:17):
So I mean, I do think I do think women
looked older in like this eighties and nineties than they
do now. Like if you go back and watch some
of those shows, like we were talking about the Golden Girls.
You know, the Golden Girls were like in their forties some.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Of them like yeah, yeah, so you know what I mean,
Like that forty it does not look like this forty.
So I think that's a comination of.

Speaker 5 (53:42):
A lot of things, like maybe you know, botox skincare.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Maybe that's for sure a real thing.

Speaker 5 (53:48):
But I also think it's like reflective of just what
women think is possible. Like like you said, definitely they
were stuck in lives that they didn't like and had
no way out of, and you know that when they
were now, I think.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
They were told to dress a certain way and kind
of like style themselves a certain way, and you couldn't
have your hair along because that meant you were trying
to be young, you couldn't do all of these different things.
I think they were just faced with like a lot
of cants and just being like like movies like The
First Wives Club and stuff, like they're in their forties

(54:23):
and their husband's like remarry these twenty year olds. But
it was just like looked at as like such a
different a different thing.

Speaker 5 (54:31):
Yeah, yeah, do you feel like you feel do you
feel like you dressed differently now? Like are you conscious
of like dressing in a more mature way. I've been
thinking about this lately, So I.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Bought a lot of clothes on this trip, Like I
bought a lot of like linen pants and like button
up shirts and just stuff to try and dress less
like a freaking teenager, just because my style has stayed
like exactly the same since high school of like a
lot of hoodies and just kind of like ath leisure
and just wearing like leggings all the time and just

(55:07):
so sticking to like wearing the same stuff that I wanted,
things that weren't necessarily older, but just a little bit
more polished, if that makes sense, just a little bit
more like elegant, because like I just got a style
that I kind of liked in my twenties and then
I just stuck to it, if that makes sense. And
then I feel like there's so many styles that have

(55:29):
come out and changed. So I was like, I'm going
to get some like I posted online. I was like,
I'm getting my first like adult clothes, like I'm getting
grown up close now. So and I like how I
feel when I wear them though, Like it makes me
feel like more.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Elegant in a way.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
I don't even know if that's the right word, but
it definitely does something.

Speaker 5 (55:50):
What about you, Yeah, I've been struggling with this, like
trying to figure out because I do too. I feel
better when I'm dressed in a way that makes me
feel like, Yeah, I think elegant is a good word. Poised, sophisticated,
like I am definitely feeling I'm feeling the age in
the sense of like I want to be put together.

(56:12):
I'm not just like haphazardly walking around anymore, right, Like
I have sort of created like a full person and
I want to reflect that and like my style. But
my style is so all over the place that I'm
trying to figure out what that even is because I
thrift most of my clothes.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
I'm like, so.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
If I see a really cute shirt, like I you know,
a thrift store, I get that, I get a dress,
I get a random gene. So like my wardrobe situation
is very discombobulated, and I'm I don't know, but I
think that's okay.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Like I think it's okay too.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
For me, I just wanted to have like a more
refined style, like to just kind of and then like
during COVID, I just got worse with it because I
just really started dressing like in a way that I
didn't even love, just because it was like comfortable. And
I've always liked having like some sense of style and
being cute. And then I kind of started going like
away from cuter things to just be comfortable. Not that

(57:10):
I don't then I want to be uncomfortable, but I
just think that like it can also say a lot
about you, like the way that you dress and like
being put together. That's way a lot of times I
think people are older than me because I'll see these
girls in their late twenties early thirties and they're like
dressed so well, and I just assume they're older than
me because I'm like in my hoodie and shorts, Like

(57:31):
right now I have on a pair of juicy Couture
shorts from two thousand and four.

Speaker 5 (57:35):
So it's like, yeah, I think maybe what I need
to do is start investing in, like I need like
real jeans. I need to invest in like a good
grown like woman, nice jeans, because I just don't do
that because I don't.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Really spend money on clothes anymore. I feel weird about it.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
I got to like I love going at through stopped
the shops, and I don't mean like vintage. I'm not
out here buying like vintage like you know, nice stores. Yeah,
it was good Will Queen, and I just like it
because I'm like, oh, I'm tired of this in a
week anyway, let me just go get a new one.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
I'll take this one back, you know.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
It's like, yeah, I definitely tried to do that to
start getting like investment pieces, Like I started first with
shoes to do that, like getting nice like boots and
getting nice shoes and stuff, because it was easier to
like rationalize spending the money on that. But then for
like higher end purchases, like if I see like a
thirty dollars shirt. Even I'm like, oh my god, that

(58:39):
shirt is thirty dollars. I can't spend thirty dollars on
his T shirt because I'm still like looking at prices
as if it was like two thousand. Because so many
of my clothes I have are old or so much
of the stuff I have is thrifted, so once you
go into like the real clothes, it's like whoa, whoa, this.

Speaker 5 (58:55):
Is what people are bay And I know, I walked
into a store like I don't know. I was shocking
with my husband, like a couple of weeks ago. It
was my birthday, that's right, because he was like, oh,
you should get a dress for your birthday. So we're
shopping and we go into this store and I don't
even know what it was. It was something that I
think is pretty popular, but like, I don't shop there,
and it all looked the same, and it looked like

(59:16):
stuff that I see like the twenty year old girls wearing.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
And there were a couple dresses in there that were cute.
So I start looking.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
I mean, there was nothing less than like two hundred
dollars in there, and I'm like, wait, this is what
are people buying? This stuff like this is crazy to me,
this I mean, And then I start to feel old
when I think things like that, you know, and like
there's like a twenty five year old girl next to
me who's like spending her whole fucking paycheck on this dress,
and I'm just like.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Oh, what I did is I went to TJ Max
and Marshalls so I could get like some nicer things
that were made as like overstock and then get them
still at like a lower price point, and like look
at the tag and be like, oh, retail value one
hundred and twenty eight dollars, but I'm getting it for
twenty nine ninety nine, so a little Max Andista in there.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
But oh yeah, I love I love a good TJ Max. Fine, man,
you can get some good stuff. I get all my
yoga outfits from TJ Max.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Good call, Good Call. Because that is expensive. Yeah, it
is hard though.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
That is hard to is like to expect like the
prices we had in our twenties, Like I expect like that,
and then like going and seeing how like how much
close cost and being like oh my.

Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
Gosh, yeah yeah, so but also what it like doesn't
even make sense that I'm that way because I will
go I will go out to dinner and order like
a eighteen dollars non alcohol like a cocktail and not
think twice about it. I'd be like, well, that's just
what it is, and this is what I do because
I like this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
But god forbid I buy an eighteen dollar shirt, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
Oh, I'm absolutely like that with groceries, even like my
grocery hall, I buy like the bougiest stuff that I like,
like all and so much money on that, or like
I have face creams that costs more money than any
single piece of clothing in my wardrobe.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
So I was trying to I had to buy a.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
Carry on suitcase because mind broke and it was like
such a struggle of will for me to spend like
one hundred dollars on a suitcase, because I was like
and then I was like, you know, if this was skincare,
I would spend it in a second. If this was
like a grocery store hall, like, I would spend it
in a second. So why for something I really need
that I should just get a nice one so I

(01:01:31):
don't have to keep replacing it. Why is it so
hard for me to drop that money on a suitcase.
But like for fashion items and stuff like that, I've
always just had that kind of resistance because in my
mind everything should cost like under twenty dollars.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
I know, so same suitcases are really expensive, though they
are they are ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
But do you have any last takeaways? We're getting close
to that hour mark.

Speaker 5 (01:02:01):
Yeah, I think that forty really is the beginning. That's
what it feels like to me, and I definitely wouldn't
have thought that, you know, ten years ago. So to
all those all those girls out there listening who are
like twenty something, thirty something and they're like, speak for yourself, bitch,
fortys old, I will tell you that when you get here,

(01:02:23):
if you're lucky enough to get here and lucky enough
to have good people in your life and know what
you want in your life, you're you're just beginning, like
it's just starting to open up for you. You know, you're
more intelligent, you're definitely more wise, and you're less affected

(01:02:45):
by all the bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
You know, it's a good thing.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
I absolutely agree. It feels like such a blessing to
get to be here. When I was thirty, I don't
think that I could have done an episode like this
with you and been like, this is what it's like
to be thirty because even though I was like thought
I knew so much, I was also so deeply insecure
with so many things. And forties really does just feel

(01:03:10):
like the beginning for me. Like it feels like entering
like a whole new chapter. I don't feel like middle
aged or anything. I just kind of feel like everything
is just starting out in so many.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Ways, and that's really really exciting.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
It's one of the most exciting parts of my life.
And getting to go into a whole decade with like
a clear head just feels so good.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Yeah, I agree with that too.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
I mean, being a sober woman turning forty is very
different than I think it would have been turning forty
had I not, you know, quit drinking and everything five
plus years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
I think, like, can you imagine that birthday party poof No, No,
Because honestly, I just I don't think I think my
mindset would be so top toxic.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
By now that I don't know that I would have
a lot of like ambition for myself the way that
I do now, Like I just don't think I would
see the possibility at all, you know, And I would
probably be approaching it with a little bit more want want,
like everything else in my life at the time, I'd be.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Still hungover seven months later. So yeah, you meters in
that forty year old hangover are still which for sure
I hit the name. But yeah, this was definitely one
of our more conversational episodes. We usually pick out like
different spooky topics and sobriety tie ins and stuff, So

(01:04:40):
for our next episode, I think we'll go.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Back to that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:42):
There was an outline Kristin and I were working on
a while ago about like curses and do you remember that,
Like about generational curses and stuff, so it kind of
ties into like the whole aging thing, but it was
also like about literal curses and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
So maybe we'll do that for our next episode.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
I definitely want to get back into recording with you
more because they're always people people love the episodes, so yeah,
we have send us your suggestions to Yeah, they're endless
spooky subjects for us to dive down. And yeah, I
want to ask you about the Annabelle Dull guy that died.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Oh yeah, he had a heart attack.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Yeah, you know the day that we recorded that episode
about her, I sent you like an article that she
had like gone missing, she like missing on her tour
for a while. So the guy that was keeping track
of her, who had lost her, he died last week
in his hotel room. I think he had a heart attack,
but I'm not sure if they released it yet. So
there's a lot of speculation about what happened. What happened

(01:05:51):
there with annabel The warrant said she was never supposed
to be removed from that museum that Lorraine Warren said
she was the most the object with the most attachment
to her that she had ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
So whoever made that call probably not the best decision. Yeah,
they brought that on themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
But yeah, yeah, not a great idea. I thought of
you because I saw if I was a Honda dollar
people were making money off of me. I would take
people out too, honestly, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's just kind of what you do. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
So it's like I expect, forty is nothing to Annabelle.
She's like sixty years old, so.

Speaker 5 (01:06:30):
Yeah, yeah, it's a totally different forty for her.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Definitely. All right, Well, thank you everyone so much for listening. Kristin.
Where can people find you?

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
You can find me on Instagram at Creative Sobriety and
on substack. Kristin Behar also Creative Sobriety on substack, but
you can search either one.

Speaker 4 (01:06:57):
And you can find me at Broad's X door on
Everything or at Daniella Screama. And thank you so much
for listening, Thank you Kristen for doing another episode with me,
and we will talk to you all soon.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Bye bye bye