West Memphis Murders Pt 3: Jason, Damien and Jessie

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
In a statement given to the police obtained by a
Memphis newspaper, seventeen year old Jesse miss Kelly allegedly consises
to watching two other suspects choke, rape, and sexually new
to lay three West Memphis second.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Graders reach satanic wors, horrific ritualistic sacrifice.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Hello, neighbors, lovers, and friends. I'm Danielle Scrima.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
I'm Brooke Fisher, and you're listening to Broad's next Door,
the show where we try and gain a broader understanding
on how any of this happened.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Today, we're trying to figure out the arrests of Damian Eccles,
Jason Baldwin, and Jesse miss Kelly, and how Jesse's confession
and the police investigation led us to this point. So
in this episode, we're going to cover the time period
June to January. June ninety three to January nineteen ninety four,
the period after the arrests but before the trials.

Speaker 5 (00:56):
According to the published report, miss Kelly told police he
watched eighteen year old Damien Eccles and sixteen year old
Jason Baldwin brutalized the children with a club and a
night The report says miss Kelly told police eckles In
Baldwin raped one of the boys and sexually mutilated another.

Speaker 6 (01:15):
As part of a cult ritual.

Speaker 5 (01:16):
Miss Kelly is quoted as saying he did not take
part in the rape and mutilation, but that he helped
subdue one victim who tried to escape.

Speaker 6 (01:25):
At a press.

Speaker 5 (01:25):
Conference, Inspector Gary Gitchell said the case against the accused
teens is very strong. It appears satanic worship may have
played a role in the murders. Since the very beginning
of the investigation, people all around West Memphis have come
forward with stories of Satanic cults. Reverend Tommy Stacy's church

(01:50):
is down the street from where the bodies were found.
One year ago, Damien Eccles told the churches youth minister
he had a packed with the devil and he was going.

Speaker 7 (01:59):
To have I do know that, my youth director, but
I talked to dam then extensively after revival that we had,
and he told him that he could not be saved,
that he could not give his heart to Jesus.

Speaker 6 (02:13):
And my youth director then.

Speaker 7 (02:15):
Tried to get him to take a Bible, and he
made the statement that he could not take a Bible,
because if he did the rest of him, we're.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
Getting in West Memphis, Jena Newton A t eighth Night news.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Brook, why don't you give us a quick recap of
how we got to where we are now? Just a
summary from parts one and two. This is part three.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Damien Agles, Jason Baldwin, and Jesse mss kelly were ordinary
teenagers in a small town until their lives became entangled
in a nationwide wave of fear and hysteria Satanic panic,
an error marked by moral panic and fueled by sensationalism,
gripped the public's imagination forever, altering the lives of those
accused of dark rituals and double worship.

Speaker 8 (02:54):
Law enforcement fixated on the West Memphis three, drawn to.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
Their unconventional appearances, their love for heavy metal music, and
rumors of involvement in satanic rituals.

Speaker 8 (03:04):
This fixation became a lens through which they viewed the case, leading.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
A tunnel vision and a troubling lack of objectivity. On
May seventh, Steve Jones, the juvenile officer who first discovered
the bodies, interviewed a troubled local teenager, Damien Eccles, who
had been there under the watchful eye of another.

Speaker 8 (03:19):
Juvenile officer, Jerry Driver. For some time.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
Eggles was a dropout with the history of psychiatric problems,
including major depression, and was a self described twicken. He
had quite a few interactions with the police because of
his girlfriend, and following his release from Little Rock Hospital,
Egles returned to West Memphis, where he regularly met with
a social worker at a mental health facility. The social
worker reported in her notes that Eckles told her he

(03:44):
might become another Charles Manson or Ted Bundy.

Speaker 8 (03:46):
Jerry Driver's knowledge.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
Of Eckles convinced him that Damien might have a lot
to do with the murders of Chris Buyers, Michael Moore,
and Stevie Branch, and he pursued his suspicions with members
of the West Memphis Police Department. Police questioned Eckles about
the robin Hood Hills murders three separate times between May
seventh and May tenth, twice at the trailer park where
he lived and once at a police station.

Speaker 8 (04:07):
Eckles told investigators.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
He never heard of the three boys and that the
person who committed the murders was obviously sick. He said
he spent the evening of May Fit at home with
his mother talking on the phone with two girlfriends. In Memphis,
investigators noticed that Eckles had evil written across his left knuckles.

Speaker 8 (04:23):
Eckles willingly took.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
A polygraph test, and the administering officer concluded the Eckles
recorded a significant.

Speaker 8 (04:30):
Amount of deception.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
In addition to Eckles, investigators focused their attention on Jason Baldwin,
a friend of Damien Eckles, who also had evils inked
on his left knuckles.

Speaker 8 (04:40):
Like Eckles.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Baldwin denied any involvement in the killings, but detectives on
the case increasingly thought otherwise. Vicki Hutchinson and Aaron Hutchinson
working with the police, the seeing Jesse miss Kelly, their neighbor,
and Damian Eckles and Jason Baldwin with the kids and
with you know, in events with Satanic rituals. It is

(05:02):
a turning point for this case because the police had
been watching Damien for a while, had been wanting to
catch him in some way. They're very threatened by him,
and Vicky and Aaron doing that was a huge turning point.

Speaker 8 (05:17):
Jesse miss Kelly being you know.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
At a different mental lace than Damien and his other peers.
He was, you know, had some mental limitations and had
a lower IQ. He was just a perfect tool and
victim of the police and whatever Vicky Hutchinson's motive was.
Within hours after securing Jesse's confession, Deputy Prosecutor John Fogelman

(05:42):
appeared before a municipal court judge for warrants that would
allow searches for the homes of miss Kelly, Baldwin, and Eccles.
By ten thirty pm on June third, nineteen ninety three,
all three teenagers were rounded up in each charged with
three counts of capital murder.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
They tell Jesse he failed a lie detector test. Jesse
thinks he's going to go home and be with his dad,
and he ends up being arrested. Damien and Jason are
arrested too.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
We're also going to continue to talk about Jesse miss
Kelly's confession and everything that led up to it, and
its impact on the trial and leading up to it.

Speaker 8 (06:15):
So let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Jesse miss Kelly was questioned for over twelve hours without
a lawyer or without a parent present. He was shown
pictures of Stevie, Michael, and Chris, their bodies and the
condition that they were in, and his confession had many inconsistencies.
If you remember, he's really insistent that the times happened
in the morning, that the three little boys skip school.

(06:37):
He says so many things that even the police know
can't be true, but they keep giving him these ideas.
They talk about a briefcase, they talk about photos, and
he really tries to make it end. Out of those
twelve hours, only forty six minutes is recorded, and that
broken up into two different clips. And that's what I

(06:58):
played a lot of in the last Episode's confession is
leaked by the next morning. They're arrested that night. The
next morning, that confession has been leaked already.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
Okay, so how did Jesse's confession get leaked?

Speaker 3 (07:09):
The police immediately leak Jesse's confessions. They are the ones
that do this because they're the only ones that have
this the time. It's the police or the judge who
signed the warrant for the arrest. This is audio from
June the fourth.

Speaker 9 (07:24):
Nineteen nineteen Criminate Charston homicide of brand.

Speaker 10 (07:33):
Or.

Speaker 11 (07:34):
There's an incautible offense based on saying that no bond
said today you need today have my reign one morning
you're advised and on the good day of May nineteen
ninety three, lawfully and premeditated and limorated with another person
of the brain on the same day, May you did, Michael.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
The audio on this is really not great, but I
do want y'all to hear Jason's mom talking with the judge.

Speaker 8 (08:15):
It's a clear a little bit of a clearer.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Part, and you can hear the desperation and the lack
of understanding of how we got to this point, how that.

Speaker 8 (08:22):
Their kids are arrested.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Jesse, Jason and Damien's parents cannot believe that this this
has happened, and they don't really have the resources to
know what to do here. They can't hire some private lawyer.
They're really really afraid. So she's basically saying she doesn't

(08:47):
have the bond money, so there's no bond, but she
is allowed to talk to Jason's court appointed lawyer. And

(09:15):
do you know why the audio quality of this is
so bad.

Speaker 8 (09:17):
It's because it's.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Not a recording that's provided by the Paradise Lost crew.
They're not there yet, but they are soon to be
on their way, So let's hear how.

Speaker 8 (09:26):
They get there.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Because This is a really really interesting part of the story.
This is a clip from Amanda Knox's podcast Labyrinths that
she has with her husband Christopher Robinson. Amanda Knox was
falsely imprisoned in Italy for the murder of Meredith Kercher.
All of her podcasts is about a bunch of different things.
I highly recommend listening to it. She had Jason Baldwin

(09:47):
on one episode, and on the next episode they had
Joe Berlinger, who is one of the two film makers
on Paradise Lost. So I really liked what he had
to say about when he first got there, which is
pretty much a week after the murders. I highly recommend
you listen to the whole thing. This is just a
small clip of it.

Speaker 12 (10:04):
The films were directed by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky,
two young, up and coming filmmakers who were fresh off
of the success of their first movie, Brothers Keeper. Bruce
passed away in twenty fifteen, but Joe is stilmaking movies.
Joe spent twenty years doing this story, and he grew
up as a filmmaker in this And I mean, obviously

(10:24):
you were doing films before this, but that's accurate.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Brothers Keeper of the first film that Bruce Knopsky and
I made was you know, I did not have.

Speaker 6 (10:32):
The social justice gene in me.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Brothers Keeper was made at a time when documentaries were
not nearly as popular as they are now, and a
theatrical documentary was almost unheard of.

Speaker 6 (10:42):
Brothers Keeper was all about the aesthetics.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Of filmmaking and pushing the envelope on what is a
documentary and expanding the definition of what could be a documentary.
But it was Paradise Loss turned me into a social
justice filmmaker. And the irony of that is when we
started making Paradise Lost, we thought we were making a
film about kids killing kids.

Speaker 6 (11:05):
That's what the press was reporting.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Sheila Evans at HBO sent us an article about these
three teenagers in West Memphis, Arkansas who were accused and
had just been arrested for these devil worshiping murders. So
we went down to West Memphis, Arkansas. And I wouldn't
say that I was enveloped by satanic panic.

Speaker 6 (11:22):
But certainly things like the McMartin case.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Were in the rear view mirror, the Jamie Bulger case,
which was a two year old in the UK, murdered
by two ten year olds.

Speaker 6 (11:31):
Was in our rear view mirror.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Just in February of ninety three, so there seemed to
be the social.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
The Jamie Bulger case. For those of you who don't
remember Brooke, I know you were three when this happened.
This was February nineteen ninety three. He was a two
year old boy in England that was abducted from a
shopping center he was at with his mom by two
ten year old boys, Robert Thompson and John Venables, tortured
him and killed him. It was a really really big

(11:58):
story and it was really really violent crime. I remember
even in the States, this was on TV everywhere, and
it really really scared me that kids could do this.
No satanic undertones here, but it was definitely something that
seemed like the definition of evil. And to know that
these two little boys did this. They're out of jail

(12:20):
now too, that was another big thing. I believe we've
changed their names, but I just wanted to interject with
that for those of you who don't remember that case.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Thing going on where kids were killing kids and there
was concern about satanic cults and we just fed right
into it. Were sent an article about these Satanic ritual murders, and.

Speaker 6 (12:39):
That's what we thought. We were making a film about.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
How could three teenagers be so rotten and disaffected with
life that they could do such a terrible thing as
to sacrifice three eight year olds to the devil.

Speaker 6 (12:49):
That's what I thought we were making a film about.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
You see in the movie, Chief Inspector Garrett Gotchill says,
on a scale of one to ten, the evidences an eleven.
There was a confession printed in the newspaper, which was
just incredible that that could actually happen and pollute the jury.

Speaker 6 (13:04):
But what nobody knew was it was a false confession.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
We later learned that it was multiple statements given over
a multiple time periods. No one actually understood what false
confessions were at that time. It was a relatively new phenomenon,
and it took us months to.

Speaker 6 (13:19):
Get access to the West Memphis three.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
We arrived a week after the arrest so in June
of ninety three, and mainly spent time with the families
of the victims. Wholeheartedly believed that three devil worshiping teens
had sacrificed their kids to the devil in a Satanic
ritual and I had no reason not to believe them,
the police. I was naive, you know, I was twenty
eight years old. That's not to say I was gripped

(13:42):
by satanic panic and thought that they were literally devil worshipers.
But it seemed like they were guilty.

Speaker 13 (13:49):
The media, he didn't write it off as a crazy possibility, yeah,
that these guys were.

Speaker 14 (13:54):
Kind of deluded and doing some kind of I.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Had no reason not to believe it, because, you know,
at that time, I believed the police.

Speaker 8 (14:00):
And I didn't have the nose that I have.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Now for injustice and all the problems in the criminal
justice system. It took us to about November to negotiate
our first interviews with these guys. And I remember these
interviews like it was yesterday because, in particular, interviewing Jason
Baldwin is what made me realize something is not right here.

Speaker 6 (14:22):
I mean, you see the interview in the film. He's
a slight, tiny.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Kid, a sweet, shy kid who took school seriously and
got good grades, but had the misfortune of being best
friends with the quote unquote local misfit Damien Eccles.

Speaker 6 (14:35):
And Damien was.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Harder to read because I think Damien was kind of
at that time enjoying the attention a little bit.

Speaker 6 (14:42):
I think he didn't never believe that could turn out.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
The way it did, so he kind of like was
poking people and giving them spooky looks and you know.

Speaker 6 (14:49):
Kind of enjoying it because he was a team with
a chip on his shoulder and couldn't believe this was happening.
So he was harder to read. Jesse miss Kelly also
was harder to read because he has.

Speaker 9 (14:59):
A low IQ.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
You know, I don't think I'm being insulting if I say,
you know, he is not the brightest person, and so
he was harder to read as to his guilt or innocence.
But like, while I'm interviewing Jason Baldwin, I just something.

Speaker 6 (15:12):
Just struck me.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
And this is after months and months of spending time
with families of the victims who were utterly convinced that
these kids were just rotten murderers, and the police telling
us that the case is so strong. But I remember
literally looking at Jason Baldwin's wrist, his tiny little wrist,
because he's gesticulating when he's talking to me, and I'm
trying to imagine that hand building a ten inch serrated

(15:35):
hunting knife castrading Christopher Byers, one of the eight year
old victims, and all these other assorted wounds, which interestingly,
at the time we all thought those were knife wounds.
Looking at his wrists talking to him, I was just
overwhelmed with something ain't right here.

Speaker 6 (15:50):
One plus one is not equilling to.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
And so Bruce Sinosti and I had a chat on
the way back to the hotel and we were both like,
we're troubled by this, to the point where I felt
like I had to call Sheila Evans, who was the
head of documentaries at HBO. And Sheila has been credible.
She has a varied taste. She likes selation's material as
much as.

Speaker 6 (16:08):
She likes hybrid material. And she sent us down. You know,
I'm twenty eight, twenty nine years old, it's my second film.
It's HBO finally. You know, the first film was.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Made through credit cards and second mortgages on homes.

Speaker 6 (16:19):
This was the first film where oh, HBO has called.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
And at the time, if you weren't selling your documentary
at HBO or PBS, you weren't making a documentary.

Speaker 6 (16:28):
Those were the only games in town. Back hard to
believe that documentaries have become so popular since then. But
this is our big moment.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
HBO is called and we're supposed to be making a
film about Satanic ritual murders. And I remember calling Sheila
up with a lot of trepidation because I half expected
her to say, Okay, well, if it's not a kid's
killing kids satanic ritual.

Speaker 6 (16:49):
Film, pack your bags and come home.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
So I said, look, I think the wrong people have
been arrested. I couldn't imagine that it would actually end
up a trum and that we'd witnessed the most horrendous
modern day witch hunt that you could ever imagine, where
no evidence well you can imagine, of course.

Speaker 11 (17:11):
You know I am at the time.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
I couldn't imagine we would ever, you know, witness a
modern day witch.

Speaker 6 (17:17):
Hunt where there was literally.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
No evidence to connect these guys to the crime, physical evidence.

Speaker 6 (17:22):
All the stuff we later learned. This is still November
of ninety three, a trial date hasn't even been set
for all.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I knew they were going to plead out, but I
said to Sheila, I'm not sure they got the right people.
And you should know that this does not feel like
a Satanic ritual killing, and she said to her great credits.
She said, well stick with it. That sounds more interesting,
and boy did we stick with it. We ended up
making three films over twenty years because the first film
garnered a lot of support, but Arkansas didn't seem to

(17:50):
be moved by it.

Speaker 6 (17:51):
So we start questioning. This is where I cut my
teeth and.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
My investigative skills and my realization that these kinds of
things happen. And the final scene of Paradise Loss was
actually one of the most emotionally devastating moments of our lives.

Speaker 6 (18:06):
And the access we got. I still marvel at where
we were allowed.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
To stick that Camera's still amazing to me that we
were able to document this.

Speaker 6 (18:12):
People are too media savvy today.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Paradise Lost, so the filmmakers have spent months with the
families of Christopher Byers, Stevie Brand and Michael Moore before
they have any access to Damien, Jason or Jesse and
the parents. I know it played a little bit in
part one Stevie, Michael, and Chris, but let's hear from

(18:36):
the parents again, because they are really deep in their
grief in this period of time when they're meeting with
the film crew.

Speaker 8 (18:42):
And a general loving and getting hard and Chris about
him and knows what. And I humiliated his little body.

Speaker 10 (18:49):
I took his.

Speaker 8 (18:49):
Little manhood before he knew what it was.

Speaker 15 (18:52):
And I've never hated anybody in my own life.

Speaker 8 (18:56):
And I hate Theory and the mothers at for them.

Speaker 16 (19:02):
I can't imagine what was going through Michael's mind, you know?

Speaker 17 (19:05):
Was he calling for me?

Speaker 18 (19:07):
How long did they leave him there, tied up on
that ditch bank before they decided to kill him?

Speaker 6 (19:12):
What were they doing to him?

Speaker 15 (19:14):
Was he was he conscious or unconscious?

Speaker 17 (19:16):
Did he watch the other two boys get cut? He
was really being killed by a real monsters?

Speaker 6 (19:26):
First of all, what is up?

Speaker 17 (19:27):
What are you.

Speaker 19 (19:27):
Holding the hand with my hand?

Speaker 17 (19:31):
Davie's boy?

Speaker 10 (19:31):
Scout? I got a b a kiss today and.

Speaker 6 (19:35):
I've been wearing it around my head like he is?

Speaker 17 (19:39):
He look?

Speaker 6 (19:40):
Did he like Scouted yourself?

Speaker 3 (19:43):
I have?

Speaker 20 (19:44):
I have, I've been I have been on a guilt
tree up about it.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
But it wasn't my fault.

Speaker 17 (19:50):
I was at work.

Speaker 6 (19:51):
Have you contemplated joining you Stevie a.

Speaker 21 (19:54):
Four year natural?

Speaker 10 (19:56):
Have you thought about suicide? Have I suicide?

Speaker 9 (20:03):
I felt like Dan?

Speaker 10 (20:04):
But not suicide? No, not suicide.

Speaker 6 (20:08):
Do you feel that the people that did this were
worshiping us?

Speaker 15 (20:11):
Yes, why, well just look at them?

Speaker 8 (20:15):
To look at them.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
How did Damian, Jason and Jesse's parents react.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
All of their parents are devastated. They don't believe that
their kids have done this. But they are all really poor.
They do not have the money to get private investigators
or private attorneys or anything. So the boys are all
going to have public defenders, which public defenders can be great.
There are amazing public defenders out there. It's a very
hard job, but they are not going to get the

(20:45):
same kind of treatment as if you know, there's no
dream team coming in yet. Let's hear from the parents
of the accused.

Speaker 22 (20:54):
Believe.

Speaker 23 (20:56):
I think the cup just can't find who've done it,
and they got to put.

Speaker 8 (20:58):
It on somebody that was Jesse's dad.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
This is Jason's mom.

Speaker 15 (21:02):
I want to tell the how world my son is
innocent because.

Speaker 24 (21:05):
I know.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
I know where he was, and I know he's in
a set, and I want to tell the world and.

Speaker 25 (21:12):
I want the world to know this boy is not
capable of the crown that he is.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Joe Hutchinson, Damien's dad.

Speaker 25 (21:20):
I've seen him like a little kid and love it,
just like you love a little bit. It's like a nightmare,
a nightmare that you can't go from our sons, Samerson,
we intend to prove it.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
And because none of their parents have any extra money,
they all get public defenders.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
On June seventh, nineteen ninety three, Judge David Goodson appointed
two attorneys each to represent the three defendants during a
hearing in Critonton County Circuit Court. So Damien Eggles, Jason Baldwin,
and Jesse miss Kelly were initially represented by public defenders
during their trial. This is common for individuals who cannot

(21:57):
afford legal representation. There pointed a public defender that can
be problematic sometimes because they're not as skilled as you know,
a big time, you know, criminal lawyer.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
I don't think that's necessarily true that they're not as skilled.
I think it comes down to the resources that they
have and the the time that they have. But there
are public defenders that are extremely qualified. In the Brian
Coberger case right now, that's a capital murder case with
four victims, and he has Ann Taylor who's a public defender.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
So that's an important thing to kind of consider in
the beginning of their cases.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
And the public defenders, they have their work cut out
for them. Luckily, there are private investigators even from the beginning,
even before HBO that get involved.

Speaker 8 (22:45):
When do private investigators get involved.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Enter Ron Lax. Ron Lax is extremely against the death penalty,
so as soon as he gets wind of the West
Memphis three case, he immediately knows it's something he wants
to be involved in. As soon as he hears that
the state is going to go for the death penalty
for three teenagers, he's one of the many people who's like, no,
not another debt three dead kids, but his work that

(23:10):
he will do over the next decade. For Jesse, Jason
and Damian. It's plays such plays such a huge part.
Let's listen to a clip from Devil's Not. There's not
too like because he's not really in too much of
the first Paradise Lost. But in Devil's Not the movie,
it's basically told through the eyes of Pam Hobbs, Stevie's

(23:32):
mom and Ron. He's played by Colin For dramatization, just
keep in mind, but I do think they do a
good job in this film, which is why I keep
including parts of it. This clip starts when the boys
are arrested, and it will also let us know how
Ron gets gets involved. They're all just watching horror movies.

Speaker 10 (23:55):
It's a place.

Speaker 6 (24:00):
Stop.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
June fourth, Office of Inquisitor Ink Private Investigators.

Speaker 8 (24:17):
He was Memphis GDS hold the Cross Congress.

Speaker 26 (24:21):
Families and victims, Damien Eckles, Jason Baldwin, Jesse miss Kelly.

Speaker 27 (24:25):
We're arrested last night, will be charged in the murders
of the three boys we found last month and the Robin.

Speaker 9 (24:30):
Hood was.

Speaker 17 (24:33):
I do, but I can't comment on that at this time.

Speaker 18 (24:35):
We interviewed the three to finish a member of the call,
I can't comment on that.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
Well, on a scale of one to ten, how solid
do you feel your cases?

Speaker 6 (24:44):
Eleven?

Speaker 12 (24:48):
Apparently the break in the case was the confession of
Jesse miss Kelly, one of the accused in this horrific
crime that has shocked this entire community.

Speaker 18 (24:56):
Batanism is out there and you must be watchful for
the sixth indicators of satanic involved obsession with death, satanic paraphidavia,
you're kidnapping, sexual abuse, cannibalism, and cremation.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
And I believe that there those are like some pretty
intense signs. Cannibalism kidnapping the.

Speaker 9 (25:15):
Others who knew that these three babies were going.

Speaker 28 (25:18):
To be sacrificed.

Speaker 10 (25:19):
My wife and I are scared.

Speaker 29 (25:22):
Satan and his demons have already been at work here
in wis.

Speaker 14 (25:25):
Muthy worship of evil debated as motive and killings.

Speaker 8 (25:28):
This article the West.

Speaker 12 (25:29):
Memphis Even Times claims that people who knew Damien said
he dressed in black and carried a caskll also claims
he wears the number six sixty six.

Speaker 8 (25:37):
Inside his boots, and then.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
It goes on to quote two on young girls, one
who said she's seen Damien drink blood and another who
said Damien threatened to cut off a boy's head and
put it on a doorstep.

Speaker 14 (25:46):
Sounds like energetic young man.

Speaker 18 (25:47):
There is definitely a connection between hard metal music and Satanism.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Apparently, some residents suspect a Satanic cult is responsible.

Speaker 12 (25:56):
One local minister said Damien Eccles, the alleged ringleader, had made.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
Quote a pack with the devil and will be going
to hell. Another called the murders an incarnation and manifestation
of evil.

Speaker 14 (26:07):
And the upcoming power of the talk.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
In West Memphis, prosecutors have conferred and the state will
be the death penalty for three teenage defendants.

Speaker 8 (26:17):
Arkansas has executed more individuals.

Speaker 5 (26:19):
Ruling allowed the day to read to take capital money.

Speaker 12 (26:22):
You believe the story the death penalty and all three
from teenagers.

Speaker 8 (26:26):
God, Jason Baldwin's only sixteen.

Speaker 11 (26:28):
They'll need a.

Speaker 14 (26:28):
Good investigator and the court will never pay. Tell those
quarter pointed lawyers they want me, I'm my.

Speaker 6 (26:32):
Friend the services pro bono.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Sure you want to do that, boss, I mean, we
have got a lot on our plate right now without
that big insurance broad case. This just isn't the best time.

Speaker 6 (26:39):
To be working for a Paul.

Speaker 14 (26:40):
You know how I feel about these death only cases,
So a least I can do.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
I know, because crime is unthinkable. What if they did
if you thought of that, and.

Speaker 14 (26:49):
What if they didn't even if they did, I think
three dead kids? Now I'm on my way.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
It's less Dan Cinema RSA Jesse Miskilling.

Speaker 29 (26:56):
This is Paul four from Jones Birth who represents Jason
Bawl Prices.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
That public defender has been appointed to.

Speaker 10 (27:02):
Represent, holding me back to this place.

Speaker 14 (27:04):
Have to see understand Jesse has recounted his confession.

Speaker 10 (27:07):
That's preading. It's hard to believe anyone confess to such
a crime if he.

Speaker 17 (27:11):
Undone him got the expertson Lindon.

Speaker 6 (27:13):
I've got a doctor will testify that. Jesse reasons on the.

Speaker 10 (27:16):
Level of sixteen year old. It's once diagnosis mainly retarded.
Do you think he's guilty my experience, most of them
are so, mister lax. If they're most likely guilty, why
volunteer to help us build the case.

Speaker 14 (27:27):
Because you don't have a strong case.

Speaker 10 (27:30):
A state is going to kill three young men.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
He interviews Jerry Driver, Damien's probation officer.

Speaker 10 (27:37):
I can't stand by how much that happen.

Speaker 14 (27:38):
Now tell me about Damian Achols lives.

Speaker 10 (27:40):
In a trailer park with his family on social assistance.
Difficult kid, He's had serious run ends with the law,
spent time at juvenile attention.

Speaker 9 (27:48):
Now being is having been his probation officer for as
long as I've been, he always seems to me to
be like one of these slash removie type guys. His
boots and cod heavy metal music, long stringing, black hair.
I mean, have you seen his case file? I mean,
this boy's trouble. He's been in and out of psychiatric wards.

(28:09):
He said he was involved in the occult Oh yeah,
and some of his followers included Jason Baldwin and of
course his pregnant girlfriend. He's got her name carved on
his arm.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
When Damien is arrested, he does have a couple of
different things carved on himself and one of those is dominie.
And this really really horrifies the arresting officers.

Speaker 8 (28:30):
They like take it as.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
A sign proving they've truly like never met a goth
teenage boy.

Speaker 10 (28:36):
And I worry about that baby.

Speaker 14 (28:37):
Wat there's a rumor of the gun sacrifice. It to
Satany said, you actually believe that?

Speaker 21 (28:41):
You bet?

Speaker 6 (28:42):
I do?

Speaker 14 (28:42):
Come on, Jerry, all that occult crime, satanic panic stuff's
been studied by the FBI that say, that's all smoking
O fire.

Speaker 9 (28:48):
I know what I've seen with my own two highs,
and I'm telling you evidence of a cult activity was everywhere.

Speaker 8 (28:53):
That someone was it there because you put it there
in this.

Speaker 9 (28:56):
Whole abandoned schoolhouse. I mean, Steve Jones sage like a
picture I'd seen out of a book about the serial
killer son of say, like somebody had restaged the scene
more reenacted it.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
How are these two, Steve and Jerry not suspect number one,
I would arrest them. I would make a citizens arrest
right now. I would be like, sir, you are under arrest.

Speaker 9 (29:21):
So since that summer, I've been telling the local police
because I knew something bad was gonna happen. Since Steve
Jones over to Damien's house, he found all sorts of
crazy stuff in Damien's room evidence of his interest in
the occult. About a year ago, Damien told me that
the local devil worshipers had reached the end of their
animal sacrifice stage and I'm talking about things they do
to receive power. So that summer he said they were

(29:43):
going to take the next logical step, sacrifice.

Speaker 10 (29:46):
A human human.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
This is when Ron tries to talk to Damien, and
Damien is just not having it with authority right now.
He probably comes off as a little bit of a jerk,
but Damien cannot believe he's actually been arrested for and
he's letting it show.

Speaker 28 (30:02):
Yeahs you smoke.

Speaker 10 (30:04):
I guess I'm just self destructive.

Speaker 14 (30:06):
Spoke to your probation officer, Jerry Driver. Yeah, let's say
about you.

Speaker 8 (30:10):
I'm bad.

Speaker 14 (30:11):
But they found a lot of stuff in your room
evidence of your interest in your cult.

Speaker 10 (30:15):
My notebooks. They are just song lyrics. I liked quotes
from my favorite books and movies.

Speaker 14 (30:21):
About the things you told me about the devil worshipers
planning to make a human sacrifice.

Speaker 10 (30:25):
I was just messing with his mind.

Speaker 14 (30:27):
And you threatened to eat your father and cut your
mother's throat.

Speaker 10 (30:31):
Drivers a liar.

Speaker 28 (30:32):
I'm just driving.

Speaker 14 (30:33):
There's a lot of people saying things, damaging things, and
listen to this.

Speaker 10 (30:38):
Why should I listen to you? Why should I answer
your questions? Are you my lawyer I'm working with watching
for me? Wow, you lack a lawyer's assistant. I'm an investigator.
But you won't be representing me. No, I'm not allowed
to do that. I'm just supposed to trust you.

Speaker 6 (30:55):
Tell me everything you want me to help you.

Speaker 10 (30:57):
Yes, those cops are scary, okay. They won't do anything
to get people to say what they want to hear.

Speaker 14 (31:05):
Why would so many people say all these things?

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Better?

Speaker 10 (31:07):
Why of those girls say people?

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Which is back in the same Any time anything weird
happens around to hear people blame it on devil.

Speaker 10 (31:13):
Worshipers and on me.

Speaker 14 (31:15):
What about the incident when you were locked up at
the JDC and dome Borow they say you drank some
kid's blood.

Speaker 8 (31:21):
I didn't attack him, he offered it.

Speaker 10 (31:24):
I did that with a knife. It's my girlfriend's name.
I've been cutting myself for a long time. There's power
in the blood.

Speaker 15 (31:31):
It's how we get power through drinking the blood of others.

Speaker 10 (31:35):
I'm in biting, cutting and rituals. We're doing it since
I was like ten years old.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Other than telling the story from Ron's point of view,
like I said, it tells it from Pam's point of view,
especially focusing on her relationship with her husband Terry supposed
to be.

Speaker 9 (31:51):
In mont Right.

Speaker 10 (31:55):
I'm a TV treating his score for like some kind
of prop.

Speaker 9 (32:00):
God, damn cool, I'm not acting.

Speaker 22 (32:02):
Are you don't there?

Speaker 10 (32:05):
I think maybe you're glass.

Speaker 15 (32:08):
You're always hard on him.

Speaker 8 (32:12):
Every time I spent time with him, I felt him.

Speaker 22 (32:15):
He was afraid you were blame him.

Speaker 6 (32:17):
He was jealous.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
You will hit me now that he's gone.

Speaker 30 (32:21):
I'm all you got left.

Speaker 6 (32:22):
Go ahead, hit.

Speaker 10 (32:24):
Me, hit me?

Speaker 7 (32:25):
I dare you hit me?

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Breaks the windows, smashes a chair. Hear that you that
after Jesse Racanta's confession. This is from a pre trial
hearing on August fourth. This audio is again a dramatization.

Speaker 31 (32:47):
Since mister miss Kelly has retracted his confession, I presume
he will not be testifying against his co defendants. That
is correct your then I rule his trial be severed
from theirs. They would be denied their constitutional to cross exam, their.

Speaker 10 (33:01):
Key, anything else.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Thank you?

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Did he just say they will be denied their constitutional right?

Speaker 8 (33:09):
I don't understand.

Speaker 25 (33:11):
I really I don't get it.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I don't get so much of this preparate trials. Yes,
he's going so they will have separate trials. Damien and
Jason will have one trial and Jesse's trial is going
to come first. Jason's lawyers will appeal this and try
and get Jason his own trial.

Speaker 14 (33:39):
And I want to see something like this happen when
I skip down these three of its children, that sacrifice
three more for revenge than I do take it personally,
Maybe I think get a little bit obsessed.

Speaker 17 (33:47):
I just keep on doing things my way. You don't
have to worry about me anymore.

Speaker 14 (33:50):
And if the police are so goddamn certain about their case,
then tell me this while they coming to me harassed
my ex wife.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
This is an article from June twenty fourth. This is
by Marl Leverett, who will go on to write Devil's
Not It's hard to pass the beacon right now without
finding your mind drawn to the triple murders again and
the nightmarish rumors that followed. The victims hands and feet
had been bound, they had been beaten, One may have
been raped, others mutilated. The shock is coming waves. Twenty

(34:16):
eight days after the murders, another onslaught hit police arrested
three teenagers, local boys, the alleged leader barely ten years
older than the victims, and charged them with the murders.
Three weeks after the arrest, West Memphis still struggles to understand.
It's not all we talk about, one West Memphian explained,

(34:36):
but we talk about it all the time. Residents credit
the police with keeping control of the situation by their
tight lipped conduct of the investigation, and their trial, expected
in six to nine months, will also be Cathartic Deputy
Prosecutor Jason Fogelman and public defender Valprice of Jonesborough, who
will represent defendant Michael Wayne Damien Eccles, are both regarded

(34:57):
as as competent straight for parents, especially the aftershocks have
been profound, especially the realization that while Many adults were
stunned to learn of the teenager's arrests. Many of their
children were not. Police officers working with juveniles reported that
they had been aware Damien Eckles had been forming a
little cult. Kids picked up on minor offenses had reportedly

(35:20):
confessed that they'd committed the events taken the risk as
the right of initiation to prove loyalty to Ackles. Moreover,
the rested boys were widely known in this town of
twenty eight thousand, if not by name, by sight. Eccles
and his co defendant Jesse miss Kelly Junior and Jason
Baldwin were noticed at the local skating ring, not because
of any trouble they caused, but because of Eckles's distinctive

(35:43):
style of dress, black with a long overcoat. The appearance
of Eccles resonates more sharply now since the publication by
the Commercial Appeal of Memphis of miss Kelly's purported confession
in which he described the killings as part of a
satanic ritual. Now only a few speak of the defendants
is human. The most sympathy the defendants get is the

(36:03):
acknowledgment voice by one woman that the devil and the
people who get into these kinds of cults pray on
children from broken homes who don't get enough attention, who
have low self esteem. Instead, the killing satanic overtones, the
victim's age, and the reported brutalities drive the crimes to
a deeper place than the psyche, a place resistant to
natural explanations, where religion and emotion converge. The connection is

(36:28):
fueled sermons. Satanism is out there, the youth minister at
Second Baptist Church said, and it has spawned nervous reaction
from some parents. They say they can only take children
who aren't baptized. The young mother confide it, our two
older boys are baptized, but our full year old isn't.
I told my husband it may sound silly, but when
we get home, I'm gonna PLoP our little girl's button

(36:50):
and I'm gonna baptize her, and I'm gonna tell her
you've been baptized. When I look at those boys, I
see my own three sons spared defense duty when the
cases were handed it to public defenders outside the county.
Gerald Coleman wouldn't countenance such a mob, but the lawyer
and father of three young sons understands the passions. There's
been many times, he said, when I've awakened in the

(37:11):
middle of the night and just felt sick. Coleman practice
is mainly commercial law, but he also led the defense
in several capital murder cases. He did not want to
be asked to defend this case, but he did volunteer
to help the prosecution. This is from Jason's first interview
with the Paradise Lost crews.

Speaker 21 (37:28):
David Jesse games who the places? It's a lie, It's
not true. I don't see why he would do something
like That's when I don't see where they might think
Els would call upcause that where Mattala could t shirt
and see stuff like that.

Speaker 17 (37:40):
Mom, and I do nothing like that. I couldn't kill an.

Speaker 21 (37:43):
Animal or a person I know than anything like that.

Speaker 10 (37:47):
What worse of God?

Speaker 17 (37:49):
Like there my every normal person around or.

Speaker 32 (37:52):
No, I got a favorite pit pet iguana. Well you
of fishing a stuff right in my backyard, gout in
my pet cademy out Charlie right right, pitch of fishes.

Speaker 10 (38:09):
Gets you know, I didn't kill.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
I didn't kill And here's the first interview with Damien.

Speaker 14 (38:16):
They were under.

Speaker 13 (38:17):
Alive pressure somebody to lay this cull phone before people
started losing their jobs and the public was getting real
website and seeing the cops were incompetent, couldn't do their job,
so they didn't do something fast, and we were like,
really the obvious choice because we stood down from everybody else.

Speaker 10 (38:35):
So it worked outs very damous.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Jesse's attorney's talking to.

Speaker 29 (38:38):
Him to be saying that you're stupid, or that you're
dub or making fun of you. But the court would
be very interested and determined exactly at what level you
were functioning, how well you're able to read, how well
you're able to write.

Speaker 17 (38:53):
Things of that nature.

Speaker 8 (38:55):
That makes sense exactly.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
This is Jesse with his lawyer that your operating below average,
then there's a possibility that the court will not.

Speaker 29 (39:06):
Be allowed or the state will not be allowed to
impose the death penalty against you.

Speaker 10 (39:10):
You understand what that means.

Speaker 29 (39:12):
We've got about ten weeks before the tronal closed up
in January. The other for having the trou.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Chase's dad, you know how better?

Speaker 28 (39:22):
I have a collect call your name?

Speaker 5 (39:25):
Will you pay?

Speaker 10 (39:26):
Yes, ma'am?

Speaker 6 (39:27):
He is all right, hands to her.

Speaker 33 (39:33):
Did you ever find out been broken up? Well, if
you can move it. It's not broke. It hurts well
if you can move it, it's not broke. It's goning
hurt for a while. Because your brothers are pretty good.
You just got to learn not to hit your walls.
Hit somebody else, Jack Joe room hit Okay, it's come yeah, well.

Speaker 25 (40:00):
I'm going to feel I heard that.

Speaker 28 (40:03):
Gonna come on.

Speaker 5 (40:04):
I don't know, y'all'll come up and come because y'll
be here with meat.

Speaker 10 (40:07):
Well, Uh, we'll see you.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Jesse's confession this is what it says on the Paradise
Last screen.

Speaker 8 (40:14):
He's seventeen and has an IQ of seventy two.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Despite the confession, Jesse now claims he was wrestling on
the night of the murders.

Speaker 8 (40:20):
Out of town.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Jesse receives a separate trial because his alleged confession implicates
Jason and Damien. His trial has moved to Corning, Arkansas,
one hundred and ten miles away.

Speaker 27 (40:30):
They're going to have to go through the metal detector
when you come through the front door.

Speaker 6 (40:34):
Uh, every I want everybody to do that. They've got
that portable thing that they can bring from Little Rock
if you need it. Like the airport deal.

Speaker 28 (40:42):
We couldn't afford on three salesand Mollar metal detector. So
what I planned on to him is using two portables
at this door. That's why I want all everybody outside
of lawyers them to come through this door. There's a
potential problem area with the strong feelings of the family
and and it has to be understood so security.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Not only the judge is talking with the lawyers for
both sides and some police officers Judge.

Speaker 8 (41:09):
Burnett during this time.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Damien really isn't doing himself too many favors. He has
this tough guy attitude and he does not think that
he's really that this is going to go as far
as it does. This is from Damien's book Blams.

Speaker 34 (41:24):
That served his bins. There was a small medal table
bolted to the floor. After twenty the cell I was
confined to on June fourth had four concrete slams that
served his bins. There was a small medal table bolted
to the floor, a shower stall, and a television suspended
high in one corner that picked up two channels.

Speaker 17 (41:42):
One of my questions he.

Speaker 34 (41:44):
Didn't know worried about how Domini was taking it and
taking them all at once. That was the only way out.
I could see at that point the situation was getting worse.
There was no Sherlock Holmes coming to solve the case
and let me out. Besides, what did I really have
to live for? Anyway, I would regret not being there
for the baby.

Speaker 17 (42:02):
It would have been.

Speaker 10 (42:03):
Nice to stick around for that.

Speaker 34 (42:04):
When I was in one of the hospitals, I had
heard that eight hundred milligrams of the particular and a
depress that I was on was enough to put you
into a coma you had never come out of. I
wanted to be certain I did it right, so I
took twelve hundred milligrams. I swallowed the pills and sat
down to write a quick note to dominate in my family.
It was only a few lines, scratched out quickly with
a pencil. I don't recall what they were, and I

(42:25):
don't want to. That being taken care of, I stretched
out on my concrete slab and flipped through one of
Chad's magazines.

Speaker 17 (42:32):
He wasn't much of.

Speaker 34 (42:32):
A reader, but he loved those pictures. He wasn't too
fond of losing the only company he had either. I
hadn't bothered to hide what I was doing from him,
thinking there was no need. The main sensation I had
was of being so tired it was physically painful. I
wanted to sleep more than I'd ever wanted anything in
my life. I closed my eyes and just let go.
That's when all hell broke loose. About ten guards came

(42:54):
for me. Chad had told him what I'd done, because
he didn't want to be left all alone again, especially
with a dead boss. I could hear them talking, but
couldn't make my eyes open. Someone opened them for me
and showing a flashlight in them. Someone else poured a
vile tasting liquid in my mouth and told me to
swallow it. It was some sort of vomited inducing syrup.
They put me in the backseat of a car and
drove about one hundred and fifty miles an hour to

(43:15):
get me to a hospital.

Speaker 10 (43:16):
By that point, I was so confused.

Speaker 34 (43:18):
I kept asking myself if the drugs were taking effect
yet or if I was already dead. I tried to
tell the cop behind the wheel that we would have
been there by now if we'd all ridden on the
back of a giant spider. Unfortunately, my mouth wouldn't work
the way I wanted it to. I don't remember much
about the hospital that night. I knew it was somewhere
in Monroe County. I woke up for a moment when
someone put a tube up my nose and down my throat.

(43:39):
Two cops were sitting before me, watching while all the
doctors and nurses were moving double time. Can't let the
star of the show die, can we? Strangely enough, all
the doctors and nurses looked like therapists from the mental institution.
I was so discombobulated that I hardly knew what was
happening to me there. I was introduced to two visitors,
Roun Lax and his associate, Glory Channels. Ron was a

(44:02):
private investigator, he said to me, and had taken a
particular interest in the case as soon as he saw
the media coverage of our arrest. They started to ask
me questions, did I know the children or the families?

Speaker 17 (44:13):
Where had I been the.

Speaker 34 (44:13):
Night of the murders, direct and specifically about what had happened.
They told me they had a strong interest in the
case because they were very much against capital punishment and
could see that my being singled out made me the
defendant most likely to receive the death penalty. They had
contacted my attorneys immediately and requested to be the court
appointed investigators, a common part of a defense team. On
my case. I was too shattered to take him what

(44:35):
they were saying, or to understand that they might prove
helpful to my case. This guy was really smart and
extremely funny.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Jason is the youngest and he's having a really hard time.
Do you want to read the excerpt from the Jason book?

Speaker 4 (44:47):
This is an excerpt about Jason being arrested. All he
knew on the last day of school Thursday, June third,
nineteen ninety three was that on the following Monday he'd
begin work at his new job, and that in the
meantime he planned to have some fun. That night, he
joined Damien at his house to watch some rended movies.
Damien's mother and dad were going to a new casino

(45:08):
across the river at Tunica, Mississippi.

Speaker 8 (45:11):
Jason SAIDs and say they're gonna stay there overnight.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
They rented a VCR and some movies to keep themselves
busy for the night. Everyone was looking forward to a
good time, but Damien's mother, Pam Echoles, left with a
word of caution because apparently all this time Damien had
been being harassed by the police. Jason said, Pam told us,
if cops come to the door, don't let them in.
Act like nobody's here. She didn't want any drama. She said,

(45:35):
don't even let them in if they knock on the door.
When the adults were going, the kids down in the
living room watching Leprecaun, a Grade B horror film as usual,
Jason saw on the floor closest to the television to
see behind him, Damien and his sister and girlfriend sat
on the couch. Suddenly, Michelle jumped. Jason said, she thought
somebody was in the front yard. You know what Mom said,

(45:57):
act like nobody's here. So he turned the lights and
TV off and went to the bedroom. But they were
banging on the door. They said, we know you're in there.
We see the lights go out. So when we come
out and they rested Damien, they told the rest of
us to stay on the couch.

Speaker 8 (46:10):
Then they came back and arrested me.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Michelle said, I want your names and badge numbers, but
they just told her to sit and shut up. Years later,
Jason would compare the experience to a scene in the
movie Saving Private Ryan about the Allied troops d day
storming the beaches in Normandy. At one point, the character
played by Tom Hanks is overcome by the overcome by
the ordeal, his vision blurs, time slows, the sounds of

(46:35):
shelling grow muted. That's exactly what I was going through
right then, when they arrested me, he said, already I
couldn't see, and I could hardly hear.

Speaker 8 (46:43):
I couldn't believe this stuff was happening. I was just
in shock.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
March twentieth, nineteen ninety four, Jason sat in the back
of a squad car, hands cuffed behind his back, struggling
to understand Damien was let off somewhere else.

Speaker 8 (46:56):
What was happening.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
He had no idea that Jesse Mscus already sat bewildered
in jail. Indeed, Jesse sat in a cell in the
West Memphis Police Department, battling his own shock and confusion.
When he'd come to the station that morning, he thought
he would help the police and then return home to
his father.

Speaker 8 (47:14):
He cooperated with the detectives for.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
Hours, only to be told at the end late that
afternoon that he would not be going home at all.
Jesse knew nothing of what Jason and Damien were experiencing
at that moment, much less that he was the cause.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
And Jason's lawyers are fighting for him really hard. They
do have a lot of pre trial hearings for him
as well, trying to have his trials separate from Damien's.
I'm going to give you a little bit of a breakdown.
A lot of that happens in October. The filmmaker's Paradise
Lost crew doesn't get access to him until around November.
It might be the end of October. I think it's

(47:49):
November though. On Friday, October fifteenth, Jason's attorneys file a
bunch of motions they've already filed like almost fifty and
they don't want any mention of sodomy when the case
goes to trial because of lack of medical evidence to
support this. And there's another request for severance from Eccles

(48:10):
trial they want. Jason's lawyers are desperately trying to get
him a separate trial from Damien, and the judge is
not having it. Jason's lawyers are one of the things
they're really trying to do is to not have his
criminal record released because he's a juvenile. So that's like
the time he snuck away to the trailer with Domini
and they got in trouble. That's pretty much the extent

(48:32):
of Jason's criminal record. But this prosecutions wants Jason to
get the death penalty, so his lawyers are trying to
do everything they can at this stage.

Speaker 19 (48:42):
So they're not all tried together, how do they end
up having separate trials?

Speaker 8 (48:48):
Jesse was clearly, you know, not functioning at the mental level.

Speaker 19 (48:53):
He should be at his age and had disabilities, so
why didn't that matter to the pl.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
So there are a lot of pre trial rulings. I
don't think we can go through all of them, but
that's what impacts there being separate trials for Jesse. Jesse's
disability is not coming into play with his confession. There
are so many pre trial rulings before we even get
to the main trials.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
On August fourth, nineteen ninety three, Judge David Burnett presided
at a pre trial hearing in Marion, Arkansas.

Speaker 8 (49:25):
Burnett ruled that miss.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
Kelly should be tried separately from Eckles and Baldwin. On Monday,
September twenty seventh, nineteen ninety three, in another pre trial hearing,
Judge Burnett Grant's defense attorneys requests for a change of
venue over the prosecution's objection. Burnett also rules that Eckles
and Baldwin will be tried together, and he denies the

(49:48):
defense request to suppress evidence sees from the defendant's homes
on the night.

Speaker 8 (49:53):
Of their arrest.

Speaker 35 (49:55):
But perhaps the biggest pre trial ruling that Judge Burnett
may is that Jason miss Kelly's taped confession will be
admissible at trial.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
In Damien Eckles and Jason Baldwin's trial as well. This
was very impactful and a major factor for the jurors
in the trial. There was no or little evidence left
at the crime scene. There was at the time, they
thought there was at least no evidence, so Jesse's confession
was the only evidence that they had. The circumstantial hearsay

(50:30):
evidence that they had that they did it, but that
was a big deal. People thought they were like demonic kids,
and now they had witnesses and a confession from one
of the teenagers, so the police thought they had a

(50:52):
lot of evidence. While Damien Eckles was eighteen, Jason Baldwin
and Jesse miss Kelly were not, so Judge Burnett all
ruled in separate hearings that they would be tried as adults.
So a lot of pre trial decisions that made by
Judge Burnett that were very impactful in the case and

(51:13):
how it unfolds.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
There's also a lot to do to get ready for
the actual trials. Jesse, Jason, and Damien are receiving so
many death threats that they're trying to find a way
of putting metal detectors up. They really don't want them
to get killed in the courtroom because it seems likely
with the amount of hatred that's happening. So all of
these meetings have to be had about the security of

(51:36):
that just to have this trial, and it has.

Speaker 6 (51:39):
To be understood.

Speaker 27 (51:40):
So security not only coming in and out of the
courtroom is a problem, but keeping the onlookers and the
family and people segregated from the accused is.

Speaker 6 (51:51):
Another problem that you am Doman.

Speaker 28 (51:54):
My intention was sprangeous bully in before long before court
and having insight.

Speaker 20 (52:00):
Obviously, I'm very concerned about security simply because of the
death threats and other things that have happened. But I
don't want to give the jury the impression if we
have twenty state troopers and fifty County deputies, and it's
going to give the impression to the jury that my
client is a very dangerous person, which he's not. And
I don't want the jury to get the wrong impression.

(52:21):
I don't want there to be such a circus in
the courtroom with reporters and cameras that the jury forgets
about what they're here for, and that is to administer justice.

Speaker 26 (52:30):
We expect the proof's going to show that this defendant
confessed that he was not coerced. We do not contend
that the proof's going to show that every word that
came out of his mouth was the truth.

Speaker 17 (52:44):
A lazies, gentlemen of the jury.

Speaker 30 (52:46):
This statement that mister miss Kelly gave the West Memphis Police.

Speaker 6 (52:49):
Department is a false thought.

Speaker 20 (52:51):
The interrogation techniques that were deployed against mister miss Kelly
at the time of his statement.

Speaker 29 (52:55):
On June I rendered him completely incapable.

Speaker 6 (52:59):
That broke his will. They scared him beyond all measure.

Speaker 26 (53:03):
The proof is going to show that this defendant was
an accomplice to Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin in the
commission of these horrifying murders.

Speaker 6 (53:16):
And we will ask you to return your.

Speaker 26 (53:20):
Verdict of guilty on three counts of capital murder.

Speaker 10 (53:26):
We don't know what the truth is.

Speaker 36 (53:29):
But when it really gets down to brass tacks, his
daddy and I are going to look him square in
the eyes.

Speaker 10 (53:34):
And say, son, did you do this?

Speaker 8 (53:36):
Was you even there?

Speaker 10 (53:38):
That's when we will believe.

Speaker 6 (53:42):
Which I don't believe he did.

Speaker 10 (53:44):
But if he told me he did it, he'd have
to do his time. So the consequences if he admits.

Speaker 36 (53:50):
To this, he would be strictly on his own. We
wouldn't even send him a dollar.

Speaker 10 (53:54):
For a pack of se No, No, you're wrong, Yes
we would.

Speaker 6 (53:58):
No, I'll send him money.

Speaker 8 (54:02):
Jesse, Miss Kelly Senior.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
I really do respect him for his honesty and his
love of his son. This whole time, you can tell
he really doesn't believe that Jesse did it. But besides that,
he is like, I am gonna love this kid no
matter what, even right now.

Speaker 36 (54:19):
What he will have to do a time, I wouldn't
give him a nickel Son. Now we could be talking
about we could be talking about my son. If my
son did something that problem that, No, I wouldn't give
him a nickel.

Speaker 6 (54:35):
Let him. I don't know how you say you could
and we're going to have a problem over this.

Speaker 10 (54:41):
But I know it is up there and tell you without.

Speaker 6 (54:44):
Anything, well, that's beside the point.

Speaker 36 (54:46):
If he if he's guilty, if he's guilty of doing
this to these little boys.

Speaker 17 (54:51):
No he's not.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
Well, I'm saying he's not too.

Speaker 36 (54:54):
But if he happens to be, if it's proven, no
forget it. No no, but I don't.

Speaker 31 (55:03):
Believe he did it.

Speaker 6 (55:04):
I believe he did it.

Speaker 23 (55:06):
This is to Jesse Junr his eighteenth birthday, and I
was singing, I don't know where go see him at.
I won't sing happy birthday for happy birthday.

Speaker 22 (55:21):
Birthday, happy birthday.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
So they have this big group of people singing happy
birthday in the trailer park in Jesse's stepmom is just
kind of scowling in the corner.

Speaker 18 (55:40):
Bay and don't smoke too much.

Speaker 17 (55:50):
To smoke man.

Speaker 15 (55:53):
I may not be his biological mother, but given birth
don't make a parent. And I've hated him since he
was four, and it took me about a year to
it sure that little boy I was gonna be here
for him. He wouldn't want to go to school, he
wouldn't want to go outside and play because he's afraid
I wouldn't be here when when he come in and

(56:13):
when he's in kindergarten, if he happened to him come
in and I happen to be or he could say
when he first come in, he would be hysterical when
I got to him. And I've always known.

Speaker 6 (56:23):
That he was.

Speaker 15 (56:25):
He had a problem, and I've always been real.

Speaker 6 (56:28):
Protective of him.

Speaker 8 (56:29):
Mom's hands.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Of songs.

Speaker 24 (56:35):
Songs can be slouchy, so it's gonna be sweet, so
it's gonna be crouchy.

Speaker 10 (56:40):
It's his.

Speaker 24 (56:41):
Songs can be neat, songs can be broke, songs can
be well today, no song could ever be loved more
than you.

Speaker 10 (56:49):
It's just her birthday.

Speaker 24 (56:50):
I cry a lot when I'm in here because I missed.

Speaker 10 (56:52):
My family and your father. I'll just cry all After that,
I go to bed, go asleep.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
This is Jesse's lawyer talking to his friends and neighbors.

Speaker 30 (57:04):
To each of you, if not directly, indirectly, we need
to be very very careful about who we talk to.

Speaker 20 (57:10):
With regard to the media involved in this case.

Speaker 30 (57:12):
There are several members of the media who apparently have
no ethics and have decided that they're going to do
with and they can to dig up mud and sling mud.

Speaker 6 (57:20):
It's not going to do anything but hurt Jeff and
his chances.

Speaker 30 (57:23):
Of receiving a fair trial. You, as friends of Jesse
and relatives of Jesse, are prime targets for these members
of the press. And if we just remember the one
rule is don't talk to anybody, then we won't.

Speaker 11 (57:34):
Have to worry about it.

Speaker 6 (57:35):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 30 (57:36):
So again, I caution you not to talk to anybody
in the press who's just going to hurt us.

Speaker 6 (57:41):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
I'm going to give you a little recap and timeline
of all the things that are happening with Jesse. On Monday,
November fifteenth, Jesse's attorney's file in motion asking that Miss
Kelly be ruled mentally handicapped. I don't know what to say.
I'm not going to say to our word, thus not
eligible for the death penalty of On Tuesday, November sixteenth,

(58:02):
nineteen ninety three, at the pre trial hearing in Osceola,
Judge Burnett rules that Jesse miss Kelly will be tried
as an adult. The next day, Wednesday, November seventeenth, the
police magically find a knife in the lake behind the
trailer of the home where Jason Baldwin was living with
his family in May. Then there's the pre trial hearing
on Tuesday, December twenty first, nineteen ninety three, and Judge

(58:24):
Burnett rules that Jesse miss Kelly is as smart as
can be and could face the death penalty if he's convicted. Thursday,
January thirteenth, there's another pre trial hearing in Marion dealing
with suppression of miss Kelly's statement, that statement that was
leaked Saturday, January fifteenth Jesse. Judge Burnett rules Jesse's miss
Kelly's taped confession will also be admissible a trial Wednesday,

(58:48):
January nineteenth, nineteen ninety four. Jury selection begins at the
trial for the trial of Jesse. By Thursday, the January twentieth,
the jury is compromise of seven women and five men.
Two male alternates are also selected. Jesse's trial is going
to start on Wednesday, January twenty sixth, just the next week.
And that's what we'll pick up with, is the trial

(59:08):
of Jesse. Do you want to talk about your conversation
with your dad, your judge Dad.

Speaker 4 (59:13):
So, my dad is a judge and he was a
prosecutor for like twenty or thirty years before that. And yeah,
I've always enjoyed talking to him about true crime stuff,
but I've always had a lot of questions.

Speaker 8 (59:24):
I've called him during a big case has been like,
do you think so and so did it?

Speaker 4 (59:28):
But sometimes it's really hard to understand all the different courts.
There's different courts first of all, the different fucking little
laws with each state. I mean, there's so many questions
even if you think you understand stuff. So I chat
with my dad just about this case in general, and
asked him to clarify some things that I found a
bit difficult to understand.

Speaker 8 (59:49):
While looking at this case.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
So I'm going to play some of the conversation I
had with him now. I'm going to use other parts
of it in another episode or two, and maybe I'll
even release the conversation. But yeah, so here's my dad
and I talking about Satanic panic, this case in general,
and some I had some questions for him. So we

(01:00:12):
chatted a bit. Here we go, Hi.

Speaker 17 (01:00:19):
Dad, Well you look vaguely familiar.

Speaker 8 (01:00:23):
I love Hi, Judge Fisher.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
Okay, so before I ask you serious questions about this case,
my first question for you is did you feel cool
every day when you got such a cool introduction, like
five times a day because everyone had to rise for
you as a judge.

Speaker 16 (01:00:41):
That's interesting you asked that because I should feel that way,
but I never did.

Speaker 17 (01:00:46):
I almost it felt like I wanted to just sit down.

Speaker 8 (01:00:50):
You didn't like the attention, kind of liked it.

Speaker 16 (01:00:53):
I like attention, but I just felt that they shouldn't
have to be subservient to me.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
I like that.

Speaker 17 (01:00:59):
That's a good answer, So I really wasn't. It was,
but it's the norm.

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
So you just we rolled with it, right, Because I
remember watching you as a kid.

Speaker 8 (01:01:07):
I thought it was pretty bad ass.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
But I can see how that would feel kind of like,
all right, guys, do we have to do this every time?

Speaker 17 (01:01:14):
Well, first of all, you know, you do want.

Speaker 16 (01:01:17):
Certain trappings, just like judges are on benches that are
higher than the other people.

Speaker 17 (01:01:22):
Makes a difference.

Speaker 16 (01:01:24):
Years ago, there was a judge that a municipal court judge,
which is a lower level judge, and he heard the
cases in the fire hall and he sat at a
card table with the people that crossed that a little much. Yeah,
so you know, them standing up for me was just
part of protocol.

Speaker 8 (01:01:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
Do you remember when I came to bring your daughter
to work day and we picked out of a hat randomly.
We were doing like a mock trial, and we picked
out of a hat randomly, and I randomly.

Speaker 19 (01:01:56):
Got to be the judge and I got to sit
up there, and I felt like what it was like.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
From that perspective, you know what I mean? And I
was like, I thought it was pretty cool.

Speaker 17 (01:02:07):
That's not really true.

Speaker 8 (01:02:08):
What would you rig it?

Speaker 17 (01:02:10):
No?

Speaker 16 (01:02:11):
No, no, it was because you had to go ahead
one question.

Speaker 17 (01:02:14):
Don't you remember? No one was lunch.

Speaker 8 (01:02:17):
Oh that's the only question I had was when it
was lunch?

Speaker 17 (01:02:20):
Remember you said that you were sitting next to the
judge Cohen. Yeah, she could laugh and told me she
asked when when's lunch?

Speaker 8 (01:02:26):
That's all I cared about.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
But I did think it was cool I randomly picked out,
like got to be the judge that day. My other
question or just I wanted to say, we both watched
that show Jerry Duty, and we loved it.

Speaker 8 (01:02:36):
It was not so fucking funny and good.

Speaker 16 (01:02:38):
It's incredible and it's gotten the rave reviews. Uh, it's
just it was so well done. They lucked out with
a perfect.

Speaker 17 (01:02:46):
Guy with Ronald Yeah, I know.

Speaker 16 (01:02:49):
They interviewed and all that, but still they didn't know
really how he was going to handle things. And he
handled things amazingly.

Speaker 8 (01:02:55):
Right, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
And I thought they cast everyone perfectly out of the
jurors and even like Ike Barenhold's dad as the judge,
and they had like forty hours of like real footage
we didn't see, so it felt real. But okay, so
the reason why I'm making you talk about something that's
taking away from your real work. So the West Memphis
three has obviously been a really talked about case for years,

(01:03:21):
but it was really impactful with the documentary we know about,
like I've seen you know, you know, I got crazy
obsessed with the Golden State Killer in that book Into
the Dark and the documentary The Jinks on HBO. We
see how like books and movies and documentaries can help
solve cases and stuff. And I think the West Memphis

(01:03:43):
three documentary Paradise Loss on HBO coming out was monumentally
huge when it came out. Do you remember, first of all,
the case of the West Memphis three and the murders
and do you remember like satanic panic in general at all?

Speaker 17 (01:03:59):
Well, I mean, what do I remember?

Speaker 16 (01:04:01):
I remember watching the documentaries and I remember it at
the time. I don't recall exactly what I read when
it first happened, but this case has been famous for years,
and I watched all the documentaries on it, and back
what was the early nineties, I think.

Speaker 8 (01:04:16):
Yeah, it was like nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 16 (01:04:18):
It was the early nineties, early nineties, and you know,
the concept of Satanic cult was like it was almost
in vogue.

Speaker 17 (01:04:24):
It was almost in voting.

Speaker 16 (01:04:25):
People were so ready to believe that, just like there
were other cases.

Speaker 17 (01:04:29):
There's another case and I don't remember.

Speaker 16 (01:04:31):
Who they were, but they had like the daycare center
and the mothers thought their children were being.

Speaker 8 (01:04:38):
Yeah, we're going to talk We're going to talk about that.
Actually that's a case whatever.

Speaker 17 (01:04:42):
Yeah, the same thing.

Speaker 16 (01:04:44):
So the occult and Satanist was just it was a movie.
It was part of movies. Was it was just in
the public consciousness.

Speaker 17 (01:04:52):
And then I think in.

Speaker 16 (01:04:53):
This case in particular, Damon Eccles really just was like
the perfect us of it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
I think he was like he embodied everyone's like characterization
of those fears.

Speaker 16 (01:05:05):
Yes, yes, he looked like classic Hollywood right, and he
and he sort of reveled in it. And even when
when the trial was going on before the trial and everything.
You know, he didn't shy away from his image.

Speaker 8 (01:05:20):
Well, he was, It's true.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
He was like, very proud to be a wicked and
wickeds are like I have friends that are like with crystals,
and like being a wicked is just like being a
being at one with nature. And he liked metallical music
like half of my brother's friends growing up, do you
know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (01:05:37):
So he was.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
Defensive in the fact that those things were okay and
that he was like. But he also because throughout the
documentary he gets older, Right, there's part one that was
and then they'd come back and they make up part
two and their movies released over time later on when
he's a bit older, he's like, you know, I was
sticking up for myself.

Speaker 8 (01:05:55):
I was being honest, but I also was thinking this
I was innocent, and.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
They would see this and it was ridiculous and clearly
that was not the case.

Speaker 16 (01:06:05):
Yeah, And he really embodied what everybody envisioned somebody that
was Satanic would look like.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
And there was this deeply religious small town, you know
what I mean, And there's this you know how I
feel and I know how you feel about religion.

Speaker 8 (01:06:20):
And stuff and like growing up. I don't know if
you remember.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
I'm not going to say my friend's name out loud,
but I went to you and mom and I said
that so and so said I was going to hell
because I didn't just pick being Jewish or being like
Christian and I wasn't going to church and I wasn't baptized,
and you both shut that down or like, that's not true.
You don't have to pick. But even me in like

(01:06:44):
you know, a smaller town, not in a southern.

Speaker 17 (01:06:46):
Town, or one or the other.

Speaker 8 (01:06:49):
Pick one of the other. But kids, no or not
pick one. No, I know, And that's what you guys said,
And that's what I was. I was agnostic from an
early age.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
You remember that I stopped believing in God before Santa
Claus were which makes no sense at all, But I
just I experienced from a young age getting in fights.

Speaker 8 (01:07:05):
And you remember me and govn politics and in.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
History classes, I would always be getting in fights with
religious kids because I hated that the fact that I
didn't believe in God made people be like that's not okay.
And then on top of it, Damian Eckles being like
he first of all didn't say he didn't believe in God.
He just believed in different religions, which is okay.

Speaker 8 (01:07:26):
But I experienced as a young kid being like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
Oh, there might be something, but I don't believe in
one religion. I remember kids in class would be like,
that's not okay.

Speaker 8 (01:07:35):
So it's like it's I think religion is such.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
A huge part of this case too, and so many cases,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 17 (01:07:41):
Religion is really just desperate hope. Yeah, that's what religion is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
No.

Speaker 8 (01:07:45):
I know, I agree you and I feel the same
way about it.

Speaker 16 (01:07:48):
I'd like to be I'd like to be religious because
I'd like to have for another discussion, I know.

Speaker 8 (01:07:53):
But okay.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
So Damien Eckles, Jason Baldwin, and Jesse miss Kelly were
arrested as teams. Jesse miss Kelly was arrested and he
had like a really low IQ, like a mental the
mental abilities of like a five or six year old
or like a kid. And there's two hours of undocumented
confession with interrogation rather and then he's interrogated for hours

(01:08:17):
and hours and he confesses. And this confession is huge
because he says that he was with Damien and Jason
and even though it's factually incorrect. The little boys who
were murdered were still in school at the timeline. He
said like it was tied up with rope, when they
were tied with like shoelaces.

Speaker 8 (01:08:35):
He said stuff that wasn't even correct.

Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
But this confession he makes is the reason, a lot
of the reason why these kids, these teenagers were put
in jail. So I don't even know what I want
to ask you about that.

Speaker 8 (01:08:47):
That's just fuzzed up.

Speaker 16 (01:08:49):
You also had the mother. There's a mother that Vicky
Hutchinson and her eight year old child was friends with
the victims and claimed to have witness their merge, but
was unable to identify the assailants.

Speaker 17 (01:09:02):
Her eight year old child was friends with a victims.

Speaker 16 (01:09:05):
Her child claimed to have witness the murders, was unable
to identify the assailants, and then in a meeting with
the police, she was told that Eckles had been interviewed
and she offered a play detective by meeting with him
and with the encouragement of law officers, she enlisted the
help of Miss Kelly, seven year old neighborhood knew.

Speaker 17 (01:09:22):
Nick Eckles and Cory Hadden.

Speaker 16 (01:09:25):
On May nineteenth, nineteen ninety three, she miss Kelly and
Eckles attended a gathering which is that evolved into an orgy,
and she.

Speaker 4 (01:09:35):
She kind of sparked it, and then Jesse miss Kelly
was like kind of like in making a murder with
Brendan Dacy, like them saying if you say this stuff
like you can go home and play video games like
I think, and Jesse miss Kelly being interviewed later in life,
he's like, yeah, they kept telling me, if you say this,
you can go home.

Speaker 8 (01:09:55):
And there was two hours of it not recorded, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:09:59):
So I think the the kid, Aaron Hutchinson and and
everyone placed Jesse miss Kelly there, and then Jesse miss
Kelly kind of just being young and naive and impressionable
and having a lower IQ implicated, implicated all of them.

Speaker 16 (01:10:14):
In two thousand and four, Hutchinson Wecannon, claiming she had
lied at the arguing of police who would allegedly threatened
to implicate her in the merge.

Speaker 17 (01:10:20):
That she did not cooperate.

Speaker 8 (01:10:22):
Why because they're teenagers?

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
But why were they able to be sentenced to death
like Damian Eccles was sentenced to death, not the other two.

Speaker 8 (01:10:28):
But why were they able to in.

Speaker 16 (01:10:30):
Maybe in that state, eighteen and above it's an adult
and below is the juvenile. Because when they were treated
as an adults. You know, in most states, at a
certain age, when you are under eighteen, they can decide
whether to treat you as a juvenile and juvenile court
or as an adult over a certain age. Was seventeen's
over whatever the age would be in that state.

Speaker 8 (01:10:52):
If there's a minimum in certain states, it's like if
you're above fifteen.

Speaker 4 (01:10:56):
The state, the like the judge or the state can
decide if they can try them as an adult beyond
a certain age. It couldn't be like a nine year old,
but if it's like a teenager beyond a certain age,
they can make that decision to state.

Speaker 17 (01:11:10):
It might be sixteen, it might be seventeen or whatever,
but they treat that.

Speaker 8 (01:11:14):
Person and them thinking this was like a Satanic ritual.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
They thought this was sophisticated, and they tried them as adults.

Speaker 8 (01:11:22):
Yes, okay, and for a lot.

Speaker 17 (01:11:25):
Of reasons, a lot of reasons, not just because it
was so horrific.

Speaker 8 (01:11:28):
Horrific.

Speaker 16 (01:11:29):
Yeah, they had the right to do that. So they
charged them all as adults. But Damien would be subject
to the death pounding. Yeah, but it's what I mostly
remember is at the time, it seemed so bizarre and
and there were other cases like I mentioned before, I
think moments even New Jersey, where like people were accused

(01:11:51):
of having sodomizing children in satanic satanic worship.

Speaker 17 (01:11:56):
I mean it was and most of them was it's
just hysterio, like the Wich, like the Sandwich.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
It was, it truly was.

Speaker 8 (01:12:04):
It was a Sandwich. Trials.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
So, like I was saying, Judge Burnett's rulings to allow
Jesse miss Kelly's confession in trial making that admissible, him
ruling that Jason and Damien should be tried together and
that Jesse and Jason should be try as adults were big,
big rulings going into trial. And on January eighteenth, nineteen

(01:12:31):
ninety four, jury selection and Jesse miss Kelly trial.

Speaker 8 (01:12:35):
Began, and the police in the town before these.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
Trials even started, were starting to feel at ease, like
they found the murderers already and things had We're just
about to get started.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
Thank you for listening to another episode of Broad's next Door.
We will be picking up with part four and that
will be with Jesse miss Kelly's trial. Thank you again
to the honorable Judge Fisher for making an appearance.

Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
What happened with Jesse mus Kelly and his confession and
Judge Burnett's rulings were so impactful going into the trial.

Speaker 8 (01:13:14):
There's so much to just unpack before the trial has
even started. So we have a lot more to talk
about next week.

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
As we get out of the pre trial stuff and
more into the trial stuff.

Speaker 8 (01:13:27):
But thank you so much for listening and stay tuned.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
We'll talk to you soon.

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