February 7, 2024 • 35 mins
Confronted by the hard, cold reality of Chicago's total apathy and mounting injuries to major contributors, Max faces an existential crisis about whether or not he wants to keep paying for NBA League Pass. The Bulls were 23-27 at the time of this recording, and just two days away from the February 8th, 2024 trade deadline.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Welcome to another edition of the BullsBros. Podcast. I am Bulls Bro
Alex, joined remotely by Bulls BroMax. Hello, Bullsbro Max, Hello,
Hello. Backed by popular demand,you guys have been downloading us with
abandon this last month, and weappreciate that. Thank you so much.
(00:31):
We're here to talk about the impendingNBA trade deadline and of course some Bulls
injuries, because that's just such afun and recurrent topic with this team.
So, the Chicago Bulls right noware the ninth seed in the East and
just thoroughly mid, the world's mostmid franchise. They're twenty three and twenty
(00:54):
seven. They've gone five to fivein the last ten and I don't know,
guy, we're gonna finish this playand see. But the most pressing
issues I think that we need todiscuss are as follows. First, we're
going to talk about Zach Lavine havingright foot surgery that will be season ending.
He'll finish having played just twenty fivegames. He'll finish having scored an
(01:14):
average of under twenty points for thefirst time I think as a bowl right
and yeah, you know, it'sjust just a whole really weird thing.
I want to point out, Maxis that the way that the Bulls framed
it was that zach Lavine and hisrepresentatives elected to get the surgery. They
didn't say the Bulls medical staff decidedto get the surgery or zach Lavine underwent
(01:36):
a surgery without you know, editorializing. They editorialized it and said it was
Zach Levine's decision essentially, which Ithought was like really weird, right,
It's just such a like kind oflike you know, impending divorce kind of
thing to do, right. It'sjust like like you know, your dad
didn't want to pick you up orwhatever not, just like we couldn't make
a pickup happen this weekend with yourdad, you know what I mean.
It's just it was all very likepointed and petty and just very like kind
(02:00):
of like Tom Thibodeau, like youknow, was a disgrace to the relationship
with the front office or whatever,you know kind of messaging. I think,
just I mean, this is thekind of thing that we have to
pick apart because there's not much elseto talk about. But I don't know,
what did you think about the Zachfoot surgery situation? Well? I
thought it was interesting they said clutch, Zach lavine and clutch, Like there
(02:23):
was a lot of mention of clutchand deciding that before it. Yeah,
Rich Paul having said that, Like, I think that I understand why that's
the case. I also don't thinkit really I don't think it really matters.
I think he needed surgery, andI think it's really weird. The
bulls are pretending that it's somehow nottheir fault, you know what I mean
(02:43):
with their completely inept medical staff,who you know, almost killed you all
day, misdiagnoses injuries, under downplaysinjuries all the time. We had no
idea Zach was on the verge ofhaving season ending surgery until it happened.
Like, it's crazy. It's justan indictment of of the bulls, right,
I just I just imagine their cheatmentmost extended their medical staff. Because
(03:07):
shame on you fool me twice,Shame on me. This is not a
new thing. This is literally happensall the time, bulls leading, like
leaking questionable medical information that's misleading andunclear. Like this happens constantly, dude,
Like what guy? Like yeah,like this happens constantly. This is
(03:29):
not new, This is not relativeinformation. I'm surprised they even have doctors.
Well don't they Just it's actually,you know what, it's probably I
was gonna make a really bad jokeabout the medical profession, and I'm not
gonna do it because it's not okay, So I'm not gonna do it.
But no, we don't need toget canceled. But I will say that,
(03:50):
like some people on this podcast haverecurring foot issues. Let's just say
another people on this podcast have recurringback issues. Actually, well athletes,
that's true. And now, likeI just you know, I don't want
to disparage the medical people. Tome, this is part of an overall
indictment of the most pathetic organization inprofessional sports. Maybe, I mean it's
(04:14):
up there. I certainly it's upthere. I mean, well, the
Charlotte Hornets have to be ahead ofthe bulls. Yeah, but they got
sold, like yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, so they might get
better. Yeah, at least theyhave people that like paid for the franchise
at like at a normal at likea reasonable valuation. Until that sale,
(04:35):
though, they were by far themost pathetically they're trying to be like I'm
exaggerating, I'm exactly trying to bea playing team and they couldn't do that.
I'm exaggerating. They're not the mostthe Wizards. The Wizards are like
that too, actually, but again, like they have a new front office,
so I guess, like and Imean, and the Pistons are pretty
pathetic. At least they have youngOh yeah, the Pistons. The Pistons,
(04:58):
Yeah, okay, I don't know, I the business at least have
like some young Like, let's let'swant to like any Pistons players more than
Kobe White though I don't know thatI do. No, I don't.
Yeah, I like Kobe White morebecause also Cook was like their age,
right, he's like twenty four orsomething. He's pretty young. He's also
like twelve million dollars where his KakeCunningham is gonna ask for like thirty a
(05:19):
year or something crazy. Yeah,and he's gonna be maybe eighty percent of
Kobe. And also he's got healthy. He literally shows up eighty of the
like half of the time that Kobeshows up. Yeah. I was gonna
say, ye, I want tomove past this comment because they're not literally
the most despicable. I just mypoint is that this is not new,
This is standard you shouldn't be surprised. Yes, And to that point,
(05:42):
let's talk about the other injury.By the way, Patrick Williams has another
sneak history. They kind of downplayedthis, came up out of nowhere.
This one was more. This one'sactually like more like whoa and a contract
through it. He's out through atleast they all start break with a cute
and then a cute bone, ademon in his left foot. He's into
contract year, he's not been thatgood and now he'll have missed like half
(06:04):
the season or something by the timehe comes back. So yeah, contract
year, restricted free agent. It'sgonna save the Bulls a lot of money,
is the upside. But the downsideis that he's unreliable with his health
and he's just not that good anyway, Well do we resign hi? What
do we do? This is avery interesting one. The Patrick Williams one
is very interesting to me because theyhaven't paid him the big money yet,
(06:26):
right, thank goodness, I know, right, but they drafted him,
so this is their guy, right, So yeah, if you're gonna walk
away, like, if you don'tkeep him, it's a it's an indictment
of you. It's admitting a mistake. It's which our true Karnsho hates to
(06:46):
do. Apparently, yeah, hethis is not in the model of the
front office because admitting mistakes. Imean, that's kind of if they let
Patrick Williams walk and he goes andis good somewhere else or by the way,
chance if it doesn't work out,that's a great way to get fired.
So whereas if they extend him andhe stays on the team, there's
(07:12):
still the always young, he couldget better type of thing, and he's
still adding value because like they're justsuch a conservative organization, So if they
let him go, that's real indictment. And in the modern the second apron
like the way the salary cap isnow you can't pay him uh big money,
(07:34):
Like you just can't because he's nevergonna be your third best player,
so you can't pay him like that. So I think he's like an outside
chance of being like your sixth bestplayer, honestly, But I guess my
question is anything more than like there'sthere's this huge there's gonna be a huge
value to guys that make between fifteenand twenty five million dollars a year,
(07:58):
Like there's gonna be a lot ofvalue to that in the in the league,
because if you look at the waythe salary caps are structured, you
have room for that plus your twomax guys, plus young guys or mid
level minimum guys, and that's it. That's all you can have, is
like, you can have one ofthose. So if he's that guy,
if he's that mid level guy,if he's like another vouch from a sound
salary perspective, if that's what heis, then that's basically your team.
(08:24):
Like, yeah, but it's amovable contract if it's if it's twenty million
dollars, it's movable from a youngwell theoretically, but who's to say that
the medical staff won't destroy him?And then also, the bulls hate making
any kind of movie. I'm justtalking about financially. I'm just talking about
financially, that contract is movable.Around twenty million is movable, Terry Rozier
like that kind of stuff. That'sa movable contract. When you start to
(08:48):
get thirty million or like above twentyfive, it becomes very difficult to move
because the people you're gonna move itto you then are a narrow segment of
teams that can take more money andyeah, so I would just say,
like in that ballpark is very isa movable contract. So if it's under
twenty million, then but I justI don't think he's gonna accept that,
(09:11):
and I don't so I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen,
but I think it's very interesting contractualsituation. He's not gonna get more than
maybe fifteen million on the open marketannually, I wouldn't expect. I don't
know, if you're a team thathas space and you can't get anybody,
because like like Detroit, like Imean, well they are a wild card
(09:35):
because they're pretty dumb. They havemoney, so yeah, I mean,
like he's better than a lot oftheir guys. Like it's true, So
I don't you know, what's theand like teams that can take a flyer
on a young guy, I meanI don't know, I think And also
like the Houston Rockets last year,basically like a team that has a little
too much money in free agency.And my point is at fifteen million,
(09:58):
there's I mean, why would hestay, Like why would he stay?
I don't want him to stay either, So I'm cool with that, I
know, But then you just hadthat fourth overall pick and it's just a
waste. Yeah, I mean yeah, in my opinion of sign and trade
is the best scenario because then youtrade him but you get something back.
(10:20):
I would love that absolutely. Ithink I think that's a valid scenario.
I just I don't know if Ihave any confidence in the front office being
able to execute it. But it'sgonna be very interesting. This is the
kind of did that with marketing.They did do that with marketing, and
honestly, yeah, and which turnsout although that laser's pick be lottery protected
and they're gonna be in the lotteryforever, so it's not going to convey.
(10:43):
I don't know when does it becomea second round pick. I think
it becomes like two seconds or something, and I think that happens in like
twenty twenty seven. I don't know, a long time. We'll be dead
by then. I'm done with this. I'm done with this conversation, Patrick,
So let's let's let's move on.This is really depressing. I don't
like patrickallllyane. I'd be happy tosee him go. I love that.
It's very interesting. From a froma contractional standpoint, it's one of the
(11:05):
few interesting transactions that we're going tohave to deal with this. As much
as we hate transaction, we willhave to do something about it. Well,
it's just a contrast between It couldbe a big contrast between the Kobe
White signing, which was phenomenal,Yes, incredibly lucky break he did a
good job. I want to saythat. Yeah. At the time,
though we were talking about this,like I, I didn't I wasn't opposed
to Kobe. I just didn't likeKobe and Io. I liked Kobe more
(11:28):
than Io, but I didn't likeus keeping both. They're looking good,
they're both playing well, but Iwas wrong. And also the team,
this team is so bad that doesn'treally matter. I saw mediocre, not
bad. They're mediocre, which isit's so un kind of bad. Let
me ask you this, who'd yourather have Io at seven million a year?
That's right, that's what he is, right, it's like seven million.
I think less. I think he'slike six okay, IoT six or
(11:48):
seven million a year or Zach Levineat forty five million a year. Well
give me Io, assuming Zach washealthy, assuming we got like last year.
Oh, that's a bad sum.That's a bad assumption. You can't
assume that. Fine, it's true. It's true. We broke him.
He was already Oh he had injuriesa long time before. Why do you
(12:11):
think he was even included in theJimmy Butler deals because he had an a
cl tear. Yeah, that's true. So now, okay, he's making
I was making six point five thisyear. I feel like it's a little
unfair, but I'm just pointing outthat, like I give, I get
you saying. I mean, look, I'm sick of Zach more than I'm
sick of I, because, likeI was young, of everybody. Okay,
(12:31):
well, I like Kobe, don'tdon't don't bring into this. Why
don't you just put out a bunchof g leaguers. Why don't you just
like I just I'm so, I'mI'm I'm I'm so, I'm so angry.
I can't even verbalize my fucking thoughtson this. I mean, this
is fucking joke of an organization.I can't even believe how how irrelevant and
(12:54):
you could be excited about the ninthseed? I mean, what is this?
What is this? What is youraspirations? Your aspiration to be under
the tax and continue to sell outand and just be a joke of an
organization. I mean, they're justa joke. They're a joke. They're
an embarrassment. They're not active,they're not Why do people get paid there?
I mean, why do you getpaid like what you could just you
could just I could do that jobbecause they don't do anything. Yeah,
(13:16):
it's it's a it's an incredible thingwhere it's like, if you want to
get into a do nothing, that'swhat you do. They will underpay you.
They will underpay you, but youknow your job is safe. You
don't have to do anything. Youjust like watching ESPN should get taken off
the television. They shouldn't get ashare of the Incredibly, they shouldn't get
(13:37):
a share. It's incredibly infuriating.They're the cheapest team in one of the
big markets, in one of thestoried you know, they're they're stewarding one
of the storied franchises, and it'sjust, yeah, it's an embarrassing Literally
the cheapest team. They go rightbelow the tax. They're not literally they're
the cheapest team, yes, butthey're paid. Zach Levine, they're just
the dumbest team. A combination ofthem they're being the dumbest. They're just
(14:00):
the most pathetic. Well, becausethey don't want to be terrible. They
want to be mid so that noone talks about them, and they want
to get like a first round ofplayoff revenue. For some reason, it's
just money and extra money, andit's like, is it that much extra
money? Yeah, millions, Idon't really understand. Yeah, it's actually
avoid the luxury tax. That's thething too, is like you know,
if we talked about this I thinkbefore, but like I don't know if
(14:22):
you talked about it on an episode. But like basically, if you had
a sam Press or someone that knewhow to manage money like intelligently, you
could probably stand nder the cab mostof the time and really really good.
Yeah, but the bulls don't reallycare about that. They just care about
being decent enough that no one talksabout them and like gives them any guff
for being mediocre. So like theythey are happy to be like between the
five and the eight seed. Now, of course they're not quite good enough
(14:43):
to be that. They're the ninthseed. They're not going to make the
playoffs. They're going to make theplay in unless they like they get ractically
healthy or something, which I don'tI don't expect, but yeah, they're
not. They're not making the playoffshere, so like they're not even reaching
their like crappy goals, which isvery funny. Anyway, we kind of
got ahead ourselves. But I'm justgonna skip back real quick to the trade
deadline, which you know, obviouslywe discussed a little bit already. Trade
(15:07):
deadline is Thursday the eighth at noonPacific time my time and two Central time,
Max's time, Bulls time, andyou're gonna hear this episode probably Wednesday
the seventh. So what do youthink Max of the Bulls do at the
trade deadline? Now there's been talkI should probably say about zactly being being
(15:28):
traded. That seems to be offthe table. Maybe the Detroit chatter is
still relevant because Detroit is not gonnabe good this year anyway. Detroit doesn't
want to include there are four mostrecent lottery picks, but they'd be open
to including uh, Bogdan Bogdanovic oris this Boyan Bogden Biden biday By Danovich
a power forward one? And uh, you know that's completely relevant. That's
(15:50):
very bullsy trade. So and thenmaybe some future draft equity. Uh.
And then we've also heard chatter aboutAlex Cruso being moved to Margin Rosen being
moved and insanely Andre Drummond being moved. Those are like the guys that people
talk about. Beau Ucivich's contract seemsa little prohibitive, but Bill Simmons seems
to like vuci Witch's contracts. Soif you can get a Bill Simmons type
(16:12):
to bite on that, then sure, I mean, go for it.
But hard to see us being ableto offload that. So what do you
think the Bulls are going to dowith the trade deadline? Max? First
off, I think we could offloadit. It's just we wouldn't get anything
of value back. So what's thepoint. Well, if we get off
the money and get a future pick, maybe that would appeal to the Bulls.
(16:33):
No, because they're going to valuehim more than anyone else will,
So yeah, right, their internalthat's another thing, like the internal valuations
of these players seem to be liketoo high. Well, it depends on
your viewpoint, because for them,he is worth a lot because he won't
be an easy contract to stay underthe tax for, but still make you
(16:53):
relatively competitive, So for them he'sperfect. He's a perfect play in player,
so for them it's ultimate playing.So for them it's not. Also,
I think he does make some ofthe other younger, the younger guys,
I think they he helps Kobe.If you watch them play, he
looks with Kobe, there's something there. It's just he's a he's a role
(17:17):
player. He's I mean, youknow, he's a twenty million dollars role
player. But it's fine. Imean whatever. He is not the biggest
problem. Like people talk a lotabout Vucevic. He's not the biggest problem.
No, So you know, Ihave no I don't really have a
problem with Vuovich. I just havea problem with a lack of a future.
I have a problem with like havingno vision, having no play,
(17:41):
having no making, no progress towardsanything. That's my problem. And they
just bought themselves some time too.It's not like this team isn't gonna fall
because these guys are what time tostay in this like sort of like playing
bracket like seven to ten seed range. Okay, who cares like this Kobe
white guy good exactly, That's whatI mean. So it's like eventually it's
gonna fall apart, and they're gonnabe like below that threshold like they were
(18:03):
there. I don't think it's thathard to be the ninth seed in the
East. I mean, you lookat their look at the other teams.
They suck. I honestly, it'snot that hard. If you want,
you could just stay in this rangeforever and just flip guys and then get
other pieces to just stay in therange. I don't think it's gonna be
that hard. You have to thinklike a team like the Nets is gonna
take a leap or whatever, ora team like the Wizards. Eventually,
(18:27):
well, by the time those teamsare some of the other teams are gonna
age out. So that's true.The heater in a little bit of trouble.
I don't know. I just Ijust this is just how math works,
right. They basically need to winforty games and they'll be in the
play in And I think it's notthat hard to win forty games. No,
(18:48):
it is not anyway, So whatdo you think is gonna have the
trade that line with the Bulls?Then do you think they're not gonna do
anything? Do they're gonna make likea minor move, like a Drummond or
do you think they're just gonna doa crazy tarry down that they should do.
I think there's zero chance of acrazy teardown. Yes, that is
what we want to be fair.There is a small chance that they do
a trade of a guy who actuallymatters. I think there's a small chance.
(19:12):
I've heard chatter about Tomorrow recently,chatter about tomorrow, and I've heard
a little chatter about Caruso that they'relike, but they're asking a ton,
so I don't think anyone is goingto actually come up and give it to
them. So what do you thinkis a fair price for those guys?
One pick and a swap for eachof them to well, like, they
(19:33):
have to make the contracts work,so they have to trade some players,
so you mean aside from role playersbasically that's why, because they have to
make the actual people to make thetrade. Yeah, I know, I
know. But the actual value ofthe thing is like the draft agree we
get back, I think. Butagain, I guess it could be okay,
so like but like throughout the players. I guess that's what I'm saying,
(19:55):
because I'm saying that the players,I don't know, because it depends
on the team, but you getplayers, the players to make the salary
work. First round pick for tomorrowand a swap of Caruso, I think
is to first or first and ayoung player. Do you think we could
get to first for him, becausethat sounds awesome, that's the thing.
I actually don't, But I thinkthat's what people want and that's what's ether
(20:21):
and I just don't think we're gonnaget it now. First at a young
player that seems possible. I thinkthat's actually not crazy. And look,
I like Caruso a lot. Ijust don't want him to waste the time
of this team. I want himto go on a team where you can
actually win something. We have IOkind of understudying career a declining asset.
So yeah, he gets he's gonnaget and all that. I think next
(20:45):
year there's he's still expiring it likenine and a half million or something,
so they could still trade him nextyear or this offseason. I think stuff
will happen this offseason, but Idon't think if I to bet, it's
like a like a small move withlike and I don't really understand why.
I mean, trade Drummond, butthen we don't have a big guy.
(21:06):
We Also the other thing too aboutthis Patrick Williams injury is that now we
have very little front court side.So the point where Billy was playing Drummond
and Vouch together at certain points likeit's bad. So losing losing Drummond is
is a dangerous I just I don'tthink you can do that if you want
to be decent. So unless youget some size back, like like could
(21:26):
you get like why would a teamgive Why would it get a second and
you get a second for Drumm?Why would a team give you a size
like a player with size back thatyou can play? They wouldn't mean Andre
Drummond if they have you. JustI don't want you just signed somebody.
You signed the biokay, but he'sgoing to be terrible. Otherwise that other
team would just sign him instead ofAndre Drummond. Yeah, but we've done
(21:49):
that before. We signed Tristan Thompsona team though, I'm saying another team,
Like you have to think about thison the perspective of the other team,
Like why would the other team giveup real assets for him? No?
No, maybe they would maybe justto pick just to pick like a
second round and they trade for drumming. Yeah, yeah, but they have
to do a second for drumming.If you're a Philly for instance, who
need ah, you don't have Joeland beat for like several months, possibly
(22:11):
the rest of the season. Wedon't know. I would ask for more.
I'd ask for like two seconds orsecond on a swap or something like
that. I don't. I don'tknow they would do it. But basically
I don't think they're going to doit, So I don't think it's gonna
happen. It's all kind of gamblingeverybody. You know, the free agent
deadline and the trade deadline are bothkind of like this where you're just sort
of like trying to figure out whatthe market's like for this player, and
(22:33):
then you're trying to figure out howmuch it's worth of you. The problem
is they're worth more to the Bullsthan they are to other people. Yeah,
which is crazy because like the Bullsare doing nothing. Well, it's
just crazy because ultimately the Bulls aregoing nowhere. But in order for them
to go nowhere, Yeah, theythese guys, that's my point. The
stupidest to think about their goals.Their goals are to be quote quote unquote
(22:57):
competitive and which a meaning when youdon't actually competitive. So I don't I
don't see if I had to bet, nothing happens. I I mean,
you know, the most of thelast couple of transactions, very little has
happened and done pretty much the bareminimum. You know that Javon Carter contract
was really bad. You were excitingabout it, so, by the way,
(23:18):
well it was exciting at the time. He was a three and D
point guard on a really good team, you know, and turns out like
our point guards are better than him. This is something I've been trying to
say though. You need people toactually make people better around you, Like
he makes way more sense on ateam where other people dominate the ball and
you want them dominating the ball.Yeah, I still don't think he'd be
(23:41):
that. It's just so stagnant andstale. He's actually solid. He's not
bad defensively, He's solid. It'sjust yeah, but he's not good enough
offensively for Donovan to play him overeven Io now you know what I mean,
well far, but Iowa is activeand attacks the basket and like,
yeah, exactly, and is basicallya wing who's short. Yeah, pretty
(24:06):
much. So I mean I stillthink he has some value, Like I
think he would help the Lakers,for example, because but not enough for
them to do anything to trade assetsfor him. Not assets. But yeah,
they have no defense on the wing, so they could actually or perimeter.
I mean yeah, and they needsomeone open threes and he can make
open threes. He can't, soI think he I don't. I don't
(24:27):
think he's terrible, but I meanI think he'd play more. I don't
know. I think that's the kindof thing where you should check. You
know, they should shop other guysaround. If they're not going to move
zech Y're not going to them,like, they're not going to get much
value back. So I just don'tthink, well, if they get any
(24:51):
value at all, that's that's positive. That's not how they think because they
think that they again you have tokeep in mind their goal. If their
goal is to be what they are, then trading away players they could use
to get that. It just doesn'tmake a ton of sense. It is.
It is weird because like you throwout the first whatever month and a
half of the season before Zach gothurt the first time with the ankle,
(25:14):
thing, like bulls have been likekind of chippy, you know, with
the Kobe White rise, right,So, like you could see the Bulls
front office talking themselves into this team, being like, oh, well,
you know the injuries, and likethey can always make excuses for themselves and
say, this team could have beenlike a seventh seed if if you know,
we knew Kobe was gonna blow upor whatever earlier and he had the
ball in his hands more to startthe season something like that. So so
(25:36):
I see that, like how theywant to hold onto these guys because they,
in their stupid heads, are like, we could be the seventh seed
we keep all these veterans. Yeah, who cares. It's just exactly I
don't I don't understand. It's it'svery if you're eating. Okay, So,
like, what do I think thatthe trade that Lune's gonna happen?
In my heart of hearts, Ithink the Bulls are gonna do nothing,
But I want them to at leastdo something, even if it's trading Drumn
for a second, I will takeit. I am so starved for draft
(26:00):
assets, uh, you know whichwe have so depleted in our move towards
the middle starting in twenty twenty one, that's yeah, starting in the one
trade deadline that yeah, I wouldtake any move. That's how desperate I
am. Please please Ak, pleaseMark Eversley, just do something, all
right? Final thing? Uh?So Max has told me in confidence,
(26:23):
not in confidence really, just he'stold me away from this pod confidence,
but we agree to discuss it onthe podcast. So right, Okay,
So Max is a whole spiel thatI'll let him just I'll just give him
the mic in a second. Hehe's thinking about dropping league Pass because he's
(26:45):
so sick of watching every Bulls game. Uh. And I was trying to
think of a way to, youknow, give him to keep league Pass
and at least, you know,be a leade pass preagent and just go
m onto a different team like TomThibodeau's Nicks are doing really well, something
like that. Jimmy Butler's Heat arescrappy. But yeah, so Max,
are you really gonna stop watching theBulls on League Pass? Well, the
(27:06):
Clippers are fun to watch, butthere you go. Am I gonna stop
watching the Bulls on leak past.I don't know if I can get there,
it's just so ingrained, but Iwill say I catch myself skipping parts
of the games or like, youknow, there was one game I missed
that I didn't watch the recording ofactually too, which never happened before.
(27:33):
So I listen. If they don'tdo anything, I probably won't. I
probably won't. I probably won't.But so is it tethered to the trade
deadline. If they did stuff atthe trade deadline, I would keep watching
and never get buy out guys.Like the past, they could get worse
and I would watch because I wouldhave some respect for the plan and there
(27:56):
would be hopefully young guys to watchin that STA or we played Julian Phillips
more or whatever. We have toplay young guys and then what they were
doing. I and I like watchingKobe White too, but it's not enough.
It's not enough. Yeah, watchingwatching Damar and Cruiser kind of just
gets to be depressed, honestly,But watching I mean I do enjoy.
(28:18):
Its just a pathetic it's a patheticteam. It's a pathetic organization. I
don't think the coach, I don'tthink anything is good. And they'll have
moments where it's fun and they're competitive, but no one cares about the regular
season, so none of it matters. None of it matters, So it's
just Yes, and even in aregular season where no one really cares.
(28:40):
The Bulls aren't good enough to bein the top six of the East to
be to avoid being a player becausethey don't care. They care, No,
they don't care. The players carethe players, and the players aren't
that good. I don't think theycare. Well, they're not competitive.
They don't compete. Maybe I watchthem, they're not competing. They compete
(29:03):
sometimes they're not. They're not.I mean, if if they care,
then they are. They really didn'tcare for the first month and a half.
If they do care, they're veryconfused. They don't know what's going
on. They're confused. Yeah,And that's why I think like this Demarch
trade could still happen, because Idon't think there's any way Tomor stays in
Chicago, Like why would you lessChicago pays them a crazy amount of money,
(29:25):
which I don't even think Chicago wouldbecause Chicago is kind of cheap,
and it's not like the Boots tradewhere you traded so much to get rid
of to add Tomorrow. It wasn'tit wasn't as much. So I think
they could, like, you know, let them go and if you're tomorrow,
it's just that. I just don'tthink. Why would you stay outside
of money? But I just don'tknow that there's the market. Is there
(29:48):
the the market? Yeah? Iwas thinking in Philly as a possibility,
but without Embeid, it's like,uh, just it's just unclear, not
this season that they would give upassets. So and the Lakers are not
interested. So but both those teamswill have money in free agency, so
they could sign him. Yeah,they could. There could be something in
the free agency. If I hadto guess, nothing happens, and I'm
(30:14):
gonna be frustrated about it, andI don't know. You'll watch, but
you'll watch a couple of games forjust the recaps. You want to watch
the full game? No, no, I'll watch the game. I just
I either am in or out.And I think I think there's a reasonable
chance that I do cancel leak passjust to save the money. But let's
be honest, I'm probably not gonnado it. I just wish I would.
(30:34):
I wish I would. You know, they have pretty informative ten minute
recaps of every game, so Imean, you know, I guess,
really you could save some money fora couple months and then get back into
the leage pass. I think mywhole point is, who cares about the
outcome? What's the point in recappingit? Yeah, what's the point in
recapping it if you don't if there'sif the outcome is pointless. It's really
(30:56):
just Kobe White. That's the mainexciting thing to watch. But is it
that exciting? Well, it's moreexciting. I mean, like things were
so bleak in December November. Remember, No, it is exciting that he's
good. I'm just saying, yeah, I'm just saying that is it What
difference does it make in their longterm future? I mean, it just
extends their ability to like kick thecan down the road. Basically. It
(31:19):
just it just keeps us stuck inthe situation a little longer because it's hard
to imagine that this organization will buildanything of meaning or value around Kobe White
that makes any sense, you know, to actually like win like multiple playoff
rounds versus just like, oh yeah, that's not good being the nine seed.
Yeah, exactly. So that's thething about because Kobe what you know,
he signed up this crazy good contract. Now he's like a fringe All
(31:40):
star kind of player. He didn'tmake it this year, by the way,
but he's fringe All Star and ifthe team record is better, he
would have been the Bulls representative.But you could, you could, if
you were a smart organization, youcould find a way to make this value
contract really work for you. Butthe Bulls are not that, and so
they're just gonna They're probably just gonnatry to resign these old guys. They're
gonna try to resigned tomorrow and nottrade Cruise and all this dumb stuff.
(32:01):
And then they're not gonna trade Zach. So they're gonna be sad with the
same team, and they're going toage and get worse. And this is
I kind of wish we could justlead a boycott and just get everyone to
stop going to the games and stopwatching them. We had like twenty thousand
downloads by the way, last month, so I mean, heck, that's
you know, if you know halfof you guys want to get together,
(32:22):
we can get some like banners aregoing or something. I don't think that
there was a fireguar packs banner.This time only gonna be to sell the
team banner. Though this time it'sa it's a it's a pocketbook thing like
it's it only matters if it impactstheir actual checking you know, their actual
pocketbooks, like until they lose whichhappened. Yeah, well when they happened
(32:45):
in the marketing years, when theywere that bad that they stopped showing up.
That's why they changed. That's theonly way. I just don't see
any path where we get a superstar. I just I'm not seeing it.
So unless that happens, unless weget a superstar, it's never gonna change.
(33:08):
I mean, it probably comes downto guard packs. I'm sorry,
wishful, I wishful thing. Yeah, I miss gar packs. It probably
comes down to the Rhine Store ofselling the team or just the front office
stumbling into a stud on a rookiescale contract. Actually, I'm gonna go
step further. It'll continue this wayand then eventually they'll get they'll get fired,
(33:30):
and then a new front office willcome in and maybe that'll be a
good front office. That's the onlyhope. I mean, that is true.
Like this, they're gone so andthey've been they've been so bad that
you know there's a decent chance,especially they keep missing the actual playoffs and
they keep making the play in andthat that does hurt their bottom line because
the Bulls want to be that eightseed. They don't want to be a
(33:50):
nine seed, you know what Imean the chance to make they need like
some playoff games. Uh, andthey're not gonna get it. And so
no, they're not quite good enough. As a result, I think they
could eventually get fired if they don'tmake the actual playoffs in the next two
years. I do think they'll getfired after that. Yeah, but it's
just hard to it's just going tobeg for two years. Yeah right,
yeah, So, I mean anormal organization would have fired them already,
(34:15):
you know what I mean, Likethe Bucks fired their title winning coach after
two seasons after he won them atitle. You know, Well, coaches
always go first. That's why BillyDonovan is definitely getting fired first, because
the front office uses that as anexcuse to keep their jobs. That's true.
That's true, Like like the Lakersdid that with Frank Vogels, well
(34:36):
when it was their front office thatdid it. Yeah anyway, anyway,
Yeah, so that's that. Thatis our podcast. It is a depressing
time to be a Bulls fan,as it is kind of every time we
talk. But I think in theofficers we're gonna do some fun stuff like
rewatching Classic Bowls, playoff series andstuff like that, absolutely accruing like a
whole drop box folder of old games. So I think that'd be more fun
(35:00):
about the past and what was becausethere was a time during that, you
know, early Guarpacks era, moreand more more. John Paxson too also,
We're like that was like, youknow, those are some sort of
fun teams, you know, andit's weird to miss, you know,
these kind of also rand teams,but here we are. So anyway,
all right, well, thank youso much, Max, Go Bulls.
(35:22):
We'll talk to you guys after thedeadline.
Welcome to another edition of the BullsBros. Podcast. I am Bulls Bro
Alex, joined remotely by Bulls BroMax. Hello, Bullsbro Max, Hello,
Hello. Backed by popular demand,you guys have been downloading us with
abandon this last month, and weappreciate that. Thank you so much.
(00:31):
We're here to talk about the impendingNBA trade deadline and of course some Bulls
injuries, because that's just such afun and recurrent topic with this team.
So, the Chicago Bulls right noware the ninth seed in the East and
just thoroughly mid, the world's mostmid franchise. They're twenty three and twenty
(00:54):
seven. They've gone five to fivein the last ten and I don't know,
guy, we're gonna finish this playand see. But the most pressing
issues I think that we need todiscuss are as follows. First, we're
going to talk about Zach Lavine havingright foot surgery that will be season ending.
He'll finish having played just twenty fivegames. He'll finish having scored an
(01:14):
average of under twenty points for thefirst time I think as a bowl right
and yeah, you know, it'sjust just a whole really weird thing.
I want to point out, Maxis that the way that the Bulls framed
it was that zach Lavine and hisrepresentatives elected to get the surgery. They
didn't say the Bulls medical staff decidedto get the surgery or zach Lavine underwent
(01:36):
a surgery without you know, editorializing. They editorialized it and said it was
Zach Levine's decision essentially, which Ithought was like really weird, right,
It's just such a like kind oflike you know, impending divorce kind of
thing to do, right. It'sjust like like you know, your dad
didn't want to pick you up orwhatever not, just like we couldn't make
a pickup happen this weekend with yourdad, you know what I mean.
It's just it was all very likepointed and petty and just very like kind
(02:00):
of like Tom Thibodeau, like youknow, was a disgrace to the relationship
with the front office or whatever,you know kind of messaging. I think,
just I mean, this is thekind of thing that we have to
pick apart because there's not much elseto talk about. But I don't know,
what did you think about the Zachfoot surgery situation? Well? I
thought it was interesting they said clutch, Zach lavine and clutch, Like there
(02:23):
was a lot of mention of clutchand deciding that before it. Yeah,
Rich Paul having said that, Like, I think that I understand why that's
the case. I also don't thinkit really I don't think it really matters.
I think he needed surgery, andI think it's really weird. The
bulls are pretending that it's somehow nottheir fault, you know what I mean
(02:43):
with their completely inept medical staff,who you know, almost killed you all
day, misdiagnoses injuries, under downplaysinjuries all the time. We had no
idea Zach was on the verge ofhaving season ending surgery until it happened.
Like, it's crazy. It's justan indictment of of the bulls, right,
I just I just imagine their cheatmentmost extended their medical staff. Because
(03:07):
shame on you fool me twice,Shame on me. This is not a
new thing. This is literally happensall the time, bulls leading, like
leaking questionable medical information that's misleading andunclear. Like this happens constantly, dude,
Like what guy? Like yeah,like this happens constantly. This is
(03:29):
not new, This is not relativeinformation. I'm surprised they even have doctors.
Well don't they Just it's actually,you know what, it's probably I
was gonna make a really bad jokeabout the medical profession, and I'm not
gonna do it because it's not okay, So I'm not gonna do it.
But no, we don't need toget canceled. But I will say that,
(03:50):
like some people on this podcast haverecurring foot issues. Let's just say
another people on this podcast have recurringback issues. Actually, well athletes,
that's true. And now, likeI just you know, I don't want
to disparage the medical people. Tome, this is part of an overall
indictment of the most pathetic organization inprofessional sports. Maybe, I mean it's
(04:14):
up there. I certainly it's upthere. I mean, well, the
Charlotte Hornets have to be ahead ofthe bulls. Yeah, but they got
sold, like yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, so they might get
better. Yeah, at least theyhave people that like paid for the franchise
at like at a normal at likea reasonable valuation. Until that sale,
(04:35):
though, they were by far themost pathetically they're trying to be like I'm
exaggerating, I'm exactly trying to bea playing team and they couldn't do that.
I'm exaggerating. They're not the mostthe Wizards. The Wizards are like
that too, actually, but again, like they have a new front office,
so I guess, like and Imean, and the Pistons are pretty
pathetic. At least they have youngOh yeah, the Pistons. The Pistons,
(04:58):
Yeah, okay, I don't know, I the business at least have
like some young Like, let's let'swant to like any Pistons players more than
Kobe White though I don't know thatI do. No, I don't.
Yeah, I like Kobe White morebecause also Cook was like their age,
right, he's like twenty four orsomething. He's pretty young. He's also
like twelve million dollars where his KakeCunningham is gonna ask for like thirty a
(05:19):
year or something crazy. Yeah,and he's gonna be maybe eighty percent of
Kobe. And also he's got healthy. He literally shows up eighty of the
like half of the time that Kobeshows up. Yeah. I was gonna
say, ye, I want tomove past this comment because they're not literally
the most despicable. I just mypoint is that this is not new,
This is standard you shouldn't be surprised. Yes, And to that point,
(05:42):
let's talk about the other injury.By the way, Patrick Williams has another
sneak history. They kind of downplayedthis, came up out of nowhere.
This one was more. This one'sactually like more like whoa and a contract
through it. He's out through atleast they all start break with a cute
and then a cute bone, ademon in his left foot. He's into
contract year, he's not been thatgood and now he'll have missed like half
(06:04):
the season or something by the timehe comes back. So yeah, contract
year, restricted free agent. It'sgonna save the Bulls a lot of money,
is the upside. But the downsideis that he's unreliable with his health
and he's just not that good anyway, Well do we resign hi? What
do we do? This is avery interesting one. The Patrick Williams one
is very interesting to me because theyhaven't paid him the big money yet,
(06:26):
right, thank goodness, I know, right, but they drafted him,
so this is their guy, right, So yeah, if you're gonna walk
away, like, if you don'tkeep him, it's a it's an indictment
of you. It's admitting a mistake. It's which our true Karnsho hates to
(06:46):
do. Apparently, yeah, hethis is not in the model of the
front office because admitting mistakes. Imean, that's kind of if they let
Patrick Williams walk and he goes andis good somewhere else or by the way,
chance if it doesn't work out,that's a great way to get fired.
So whereas if they extend him andhe stays on the team, there's
(07:12):
still the always young, he couldget better type of thing, and he's
still adding value because like they're justsuch a conservative organization, So if they
let him go, that's real indictment. And in the modern the second apron
like the way the salary cap isnow you can't pay him uh big money,
(07:34):
Like you just can't because he's nevergonna be your third best player,
so you can't pay him like that. So I think he's like an outside
chance of being like your sixth bestplayer, honestly, But I guess my
question is anything more than like there'sthere's this huge there's gonna be a huge
value to guys that make between fifteenand twenty five million dollars a year,
(07:58):
Like there's gonna be a lot ofvalue to that in the in the league,
because if you look at the waythe salary caps are structured, you
have room for that plus your twomax guys, plus young guys or mid
level minimum guys, and that's it. That's all you can have, is
like, you can have one ofthose. So if he's that guy,
if he's that mid level guy,if he's like another vouch from a sound
salary perspective, if that's what heis, then that's basically your team.
(08:24):
Like, yeah, but it's amovable contract if it's if it's twenty million
dollars, it's movable from a youngwell theoretically, but who's to say that
the medical staff won't destroy him?And then also, the bulls hate making
any kind of movie. I'm justtalking about financially. I'm just talking about
financially, that contract is movable.Around twenty million is movable, Terry Rozier
like that kind of stuff. That'sa movable contract. When you start to
(08:48):
get thirty million or like above twentyfive, it becomes very difficult to move
because the people you're gonna move itto you then are a narrow segment of
teams that can take more money andyeah, so I would just say,
like in that ballpark is very isa movable contract. So if it's under
twenty million, then but I justI don't think he's gonna accept that,
(09:11):
and I don't so I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen,
but I think it's very interesting contractualsituation. He's not gonna get more than
maybe fifteen million on the open marketannually, I wouldn't expect. I don't
know, if you're a team thathas space and you can't get anybody,
because like like Detroit, like Imean, well they are a wild card
(09:35):
because they're pretty dumb. They havemoney, so yeah, I mean,
like he's better than a lot oftheir guys. Like it's true, So
I don't you know, what's theand like teams that can take a flyer
on a young guy, I meanI don't know, I think And also
like the Houston Rockets last year,basically like a team that has a little
too much money in free agency.And my point is at fifteen million,
(09:58):
there's I mean, why would hestay, Like why would he stay?
I don't want him to stay either, So I'm cool with that, I
know, But then you just hadthat fourth overall pick and it's just a
waste. Yeah, I mean yeah, in my opinion of sign and trade
is the best scenario because then youtrade him but you get something back.
(10:20):
I would love that absolutely. Ithink I think that's a valid scenario.
I just I don't know if Ihave any confidence in the front office being
able to execute it. But it'sgonna be very interesting. This is the
kind of did that with marketing.They did do that with marketing, and
honestly, yeah, and which turnsout although that laser's pick be lottery protected
and they're gonna be in the lotteryforever, so it's not going to convey.
(10:43):
I don't know when does it becomea second round pick. I think
it becomes like two seconds or something, and I think that happens in like
twenty twenty seven. I don't know, a long time. We'll be dead
by then. I'm done with this. I'm done with this conversation, Patrick,
So let's let's let's move on.This is really depressing. I don't
like patrickallllyane. I'd be happy tosee him go. I love that.
It's very interesting. From a froma contractional standpoint, it's one of the
(11:05):
few interesting transactions that we're going tohave to deal with this. As much
as we hate transaction, we willhave to do something about it. Well,
it's just a contrast between It couldbe a big contrast between the Kobe
White signing, which was phenomenal,Yes, incredibly lucky break he did a
good job. I want to saythat. Yeah. At the time,
though we were talking about this,like I, I didn't I wasn't opposed
to Kobe. I just didn't likeKobe and Io. I liked Kobe more
(11:28):
than Io, but I didn't likeus keeping both. They're looking good,
they're both playing well, but Iwas wrong. And also the team,
this team is so bad that doesn'treally matter. I saw mediocre, not
bad. They're mediocre, which isit's so un kind of bad. Let
me ask you this, who'd yourather have Io at seven million a year?
That's right, that's what he is, right, it's like seven million.
I think less. I think he'slike six okay, IoT six or
(11:48):
seven million a year or Zach Levineat forty five million a year. Well
give me Io, assuming Zach washealthy, assuming we got like last year.
Oh, that's a bad sum.That's a bad assumption. You can't
assume that. Fine, it's true. It's true. We broke him.
He was already Oh he had injuriesa long time before. Why do you
(12:11):
think he was even included in theJimmy Butler deals because he had an a
cl tear. Yeah, that's true. So now, okay, he's making
I was making six point five thisyear. I feel like it's a little
unfair, but I'm just pointing outthat, like I give, I get
you saying. I mean, look, I'm sick of Zach more than I'm
sick of I, because, likeI was young, of everybody. Okay,
(12:31):
well, I like Kobe, don'tdon't don't bring into this. Why
don't you just put out a bunchof g leaguers. Why don't you just
like I just I'm so, I'mI'm I'm I'm so, I'm so angry.
I can't even verbalize my fucking thoughtson this. I mean, this
is fucking joke of an organization.I can't even believe how how irrelevant and
(12:54):
you could be excited about the ninthseed? I mean, what is this?
What is this? What is youraspirations? Your aspiration to be under
the tax and continue to sell outand and just be a joke of an
organization. I mean, they're justa joke. They're a joke. They're
an embarrassment. They're not active,they're not Why do people get paid there?
I mean, why do you getpaid like what you could just you
could just I could do that jobbecause they don't do anything. Yeah,
(13:16):
it's it's a it's an incredible thingwhere it's like, if you want to
get into a do nothing, that'swhat you do. They will underpay you.
They will underpay you, but youknow your job is safe. You
don't have to do anything. Youjust like watching ESPN should get taken off
the television. They shouldn't get ashare of the Incredibly, they shouldn't get
(13:37):
a share. It's incredibly infuriating.They're the cheapest team in one of the
big markets, in one of thestoried you know, they're they're stewarding one
of the storied franchises, and it'sjust, yeah, it's an embarrassing Literally
the cheapest team. They go rightbelow the tax. They're not literally they're
the cheapest team, yes, butthey're paid. Zach Levine, they're just
the dumbest team. A combination ofthem they're being the dumbest. They're just
(14:00):
the most pathetic. Well, becausethey don't want to be terrible. They
want to be mid so that noone talks about them, and they want
to get like a first round ofplayoff revenue. For some reason, it's
just money and extra money, andit's like, is it that much extra
money? Yeah, millions, Idon't really understand. Yeah, it's actually
avoid the luxury tax. That's thething too, is like you know,
if we talked about this I thinkbefore, but like I don't know if
(14:22):
you talked about it on an episode. But like basically, if you had
a sam Press or someone that knewhow to manage money like intelligently, you
could probably stand nder the cab mostof the time and really really good.
Yeah, but the bulls don't reallycare about that. They just care about
being decent enough that no one talksabout them and like gives them any guff
for being mediocre. So like theythey are happy to be like between the
five and the eight seed. Now, of course they're not quite good enough
(14:43):
to be that. They're the ninthseed. They're not going to make the
playoffs. They're going to make theplay in unless they like they get ractically
healthy or something, which I don'tI don't expect, but yeah, they're
not. They're not making the playoffshere, so like they're not even reaching
their like crappy goals, which isvery funny. Anyway, we kind of
got ahead ourselves. But I'm justgonna skip back real quick to the trade
deadline, which you know, obviouslywe discussed a little bit already. Trade
(15:07):
deadline is Thursday the eighth at noonPacific time my time and two Central time,
Max's time, Bulls time, andyou're gonna hear this episode probably Wednesday
the seventh. So what do youthink Max of the Bulls do at the
trade deadline? Now there's been talkI should probably say about zactly being being
(15:28):
traded. That seems to be offthe table. Maybe the Detroit chatter is
still relevant because Detroit is not gonnabe good this year anyway. Detroit doesn't
want to include there are four mostrecent lottery picks, but they'd be open
to including uh, Bogdan Bogdanovic oris this Boyan Bogden Biden biday By Danovich
a power forward one? And uh, you know that's completely relevant. That's
(15:50):
very bullsy trade. So and thenmaybe some future draft equity. Uh.
And then we've also heard chatter aboutAlex Cruso being moved to Margin Rosen being
moved and insanely Andre Drummond being moved. Those are like the guys that people
talk about. Beau Ucivich's contract seemsa little prohibitive, but Bill Simmons seems
to like vuci Witch's contracts. Soif you can get a Bill Simmons type
(16:12):
to bite on that, then sure, I mean, go for it.
But hard to see us being ableto offload that. So what do you
think the Bulls are going to dowith the trade deadline? Max? First
off, I think we could offloadit. It's just we wouldn't get anything
of value back. So what's thepoint. Well, if we get off
the money and get a future pick, maybe that would appeal to the Bulls.
(16:33):
No, because they're going to valuehim more than anyone else will,
So yeah, right, their internalthat's another thing, like the internal valuations
of these players seem to be liketoo high. Well, it depends on
your viewpoint, because for them,he is worth a lot because he won't
be an easy contract to stay underthe tax for, but still make you
(16:53):
relatively competitive, So for them he'sperfect. He's a perfect play in player,
so for them it's ultimate playing.So for them it's not. Also,
I think he does make some ofthe other younger, the younger guys,
I think they he helps Kobe.If you watch them play, he
looks with Kobe, there's something there. It's just he's a he's a role
(17:17):
player. He's I mean, youknow, he's a twenty million dollars role
player. But it's fine. Imean whatever. He is not the biggest
problem. Like people talk a lotabout Vucevic. He's not the biggest problem.
No, So you know, Ihave no I don't really have a
problem with Vuovich. I just havea problem with a lack of a future.
I have a problem with like havingno vision, having no play,
(17:41):
having no making, no progress towardsanything. That's my problem. And they
just bought themselves some time too.It's not like this team isn't gonna fall
because these guys are what time tostay in this like sort of like playing
bracket like seven to ten seed range. Okay, who cares like this Kobe
white guy good exactly, That's whatI mean. So it's like eventually it's
gonna fall apart, and they're gonnabe like below that threshold like they were
(18:03):
there. I don't think it's thathard to be the ninth seed in the
East. I mean, you lookat their look at the other teams.
They suck. I honestly, it'snot that hard. If you want,
you could just stay in this rangeforever and just flip guys and then get
other pieces to just stay in therange. I don't think it's gonna be
that hard. You have to thinklike a team like the Nets is gonna
take a leap or whatever, ora team like the Wizards. Eventually,
(18:27):
well, by the time those teamsare some of the other teams are gonna
age out. So that's true.The heater in a little bit of trouble.
I don't know. I just Ijust this is just how math works,
right. They basically need to winforty games and they'll be in the
play in And I think it's notthat hard to win forty games. No,
(18:48):
it is not anyway, So whatdo you think is gonna have the
trade that line with the Bulls?Then do you think they're not gonna do
anything? Do they're gonna make likea minor move, like a Drummond or
do you think they're just gonna doa crazy tarry down that they should do.
I think there's zero chance of acrazy teardown. Yes, that is
what we want to be fair.There is a small chance that they do
a trade of a guy who actuallymatters. I think there's a small chance.
(19:12):
I've heard chatter about Tomorrow recently,chatter about tomorrow, and I've heard
a little chatter about Caruso that they'relike, but they're asking a ton,
so I don't think anyone is goingto actually come up and give it to
them. So what do you thinkis a fair price for those guys?
One pick and a swap for eachof them to well, like, they
(19:33):
have to make the contracts work,so they have to trade some players,
so you mean aside from role playersbasically that's why, because they have to
make the actual people to make thetrade. Yeah, I know, I
know. But the actual value ofthe thing is like the draft agree we
get back, I think. Butagain, I guess it could be okay,
so like but like throughout the players. I guess that's what I'm saying,
(19:55):
because I'm saying that the players,I don't know, because it depends
on the team, but you getplayers, the players to make the salary
work. First round pick for tomorrowand a swap of Caruso, I think
is to first or first and ayoung player. Do you think we could
get to first for him, becausethat sounds awesome, that's the thing.
I actually don't, But I thinkthat's what people want and that's what's ether
(20:21):
and I just don't think we're gonnaget it now. First at a young
player that seems possible. I thinkthat's actually not crazy. And look,
I like Caruso a lot. Ijust don't want him to waste the time
of this team. I want himto go on a team where you can
actually win something. We have IOkind of understudying career a declining asset.
So yeah, he gets he's gonnaget and all that. I think next
(20:45):
year there's he's still expiring it likenine and a half million or something,
so they could still trade him nextyear or this offseason. I think stuff
will happen this offseason, but Idon't think if I to bet, it's
like a like a small move withlike and I don't really understand why.
I mean, trade Drummond, butthen we don't have a big guy.
(21:06):
We Also the other thing too aboutthis Patrick Williams injury is that now we
have very little front court side.So the point where Billy was playing Drummond
and Vouch together at certain points likeit's bad. So losing losing Drummond is
is a dangerous I just I don'tthink you can do that if you want
to be decent. So unless youget some size back, like like could
(21:26):
you get like why would a teamgive Why would it get a second and
you get a second for Drumm?Why would a team give you a size
like a player with size back thatyou can play? They wouldn't mean Andre
Drummond if they have you. JustI don't want you just signed somebody.
You signed the biokay, but he'sgoing to be terrible. Otherwise that other
team would just sign him instead ofAndre Drummond. Yeah, but we've done
(21:49):
that before. We signed Tristan Thompsona team though, I'm saying another team,
Like you have to think about thison the perspective of the other team,
Like why would the other team giveup real assets for him? No?
No, maybe they would maybe justto pick just to pick like a
second round and they trade for drumming. Yeah, yeah, but they have
to do a second for drumming.If you're a Philly for instance, who
need ah, you don't have Joeland beat for like several months, possibly
(22:11):
the rest of the season. Wedon't know. I would ask for more.
I'd ask for like two seconds orsecond on a swap or something like
that. I don't. I don'tknow they would do it. But basically
I don't think they're going to doit, So I don't think it's gonna
happen. It's all kind of gamblingeverybody. You know, the free agent
deadline and the trade deadline are bothkind of like this where you're just sort
of like trying to figure out whatthe market's like for this player, and
(22:33):
then you're trying to figure out howmuch it's worth of you. The problem
is they're worth more to the Bullsthan they are to other people. Yeah,
which is crazy because like the Bullsare doing nothing. Well, it's
just crazy because ultimately the Bulls aregoing nowhere. But in order for them
to go nowhere, Yeah, theythese guys, that's my point. The
stupidest to think about their goals.Their goals are to be quote quote unquote
(22:57):
competitive and which a meaning when youdon't actually competitive. So I don't I
don't see if I had to bet, nothing happens. I I mean,
you know, the most of thelast couple of transactions, very little has
happened and done pretty much the bareminimum. You know that Javon Carter contract
was really bad. You were excitingabout it, so, by the way,
(23:18):
well it was exciting at the time. He was a three and D
point guard on a really good team, you know, and turns out like
our point guards are better than him. This is something I've been trying to
say though. You need people toactually make people better around you, Like
he makes way more sense on ateam where other people dominate the ball and
you want them dominating the ball.Yeah, I still don't think he'd be
(23:41):
that. It's just so stagnant andstale. He's actually solid. He's not
bad defensively, He's solid. It'sjust yeah, but he's not good enough
offensively for Donovan to play him overeven Io now you know what I mean,
well far, but Iowa is activeand attacks the basket and like,
yeah, exactly, and is basicallya wing who's short. Yeah, pretty
(24:06):
much. So I mean I stillthink he has some value, Like I
think he would help the Lakers,for example, because but not enough for
them to do anything to trade assetsfor him. Not assets. But yeah,
they have no defense on the wing, so they could actually or perimeter.
I mean yeah, and they needsomeone open threes and he can make
open threes. He can't, soI think he I don't. I don't
(24:27):
think he's terrible, but I meanI think he'd play more. I don't
know. I think that's the kindof thing where you should check. You
know, they should shop other guysaround. If they're not going to move
zech Y're not going to them,like, they're not going to get much
value back. So I just don'tthink, well, if they get any
(24:51):
value at all, that's that's positive. That's not how they think because they
think that they again you have tokeep in mind their goal. If their
goal is to be what they are, then trading away players they could use
to get that. It just doesn'tmake a ton of sense. It is.
It is weird because like you throwout the first whatever month and a
half of the season before Zach gothurt the first time with the ankle,
(25:14):
thing, like bulls have been likekind of chippy, you know, with
the Kobe White rise, right,So, like you could see the Bulls
front office talking themselves into this team, being like, oh, well,
you know the injuries, and likethey can always make excuses for themselves and
say, this team could have beenlike a seventh seed if if you know,
we knew Kobe was gonna blow upor whatever earlier and he had the
ball in his hands more to startthe season something like that. So so
(25:36):
I see that, like how theywant to hold onto these guys because they,
in their stupid heads, are like, we could be the seventh seed
we keep all these veterans. Yeah, who cares. It's just exactly I
don't I don't understand. It's it'svery if you're eating. Okay, So,
like, what do I think thatthe trade that Lune's gonna happen?
In my heart of hearts, Ithink the Bulls are gonna do nothing,
But I want them to at leastdo something, even if it's trading Drumn
for a second, I will takeit. I am so starved for draft
(26:00):
assets, uh, you know whichwe have so depleted in our move towards
the middle starting in twenty twenty one, that's yeah, starting in the one
trade deadline that yeah, I wouldtake any move. That's how desperate I
am. Please please Ak, pleaseMark Eversley, just do something, all
right? Final thing? Uh?So Max has told me in confidence,
(26:23):
not in confidence really, just he'stold me away from this pod confidence,
but we agree to discuss it onthe podcast. So right, Okay,
So Max is a whole spiel thatI'll let him just I'll just give him
the mic in a second. Hehe's thinking about dropping league Pass because he's
(26:45):
so sick of watching every Bulls game. Uh. And I was trying to
think of a way to, youknow, give him to keep league Pass
and at least, you know,be a leade pass preagent and just go
m onto a different team like TomThibodeau's Nicks are doing really well, something
like that. Jimmy Butler's Heat arescrappy. But yeah, so Max,
are you really gonna stop watching theBulls on League Pass? Well, the
(27:06):
Clippers are fun to watch, butthere you go. Am I gonna stop
watching the Bulls on leak past.I don't know if I can get there,
it's just so ingrained, but Iwill say I catch myself skipping parts
of the games or like, youknow, there was one game I missed
that I didn't watch the recording ofactually too, which never happened before.
(27:33):
So I listen. If they don'tdo anything, I probably won't. I
probably won't. I probably won't.But so is it tethered to the trade
deadline. If they did stuff atthe trade deadline, I would keep watching
and never get buy out guys.Like the past, they could get worse
and I would watch because I wouldhave some respect for the plan and there
(27:56):
would be hopefully young guys to watchin that STA or we played Julian Phillips
more or whatever. We have toplay young guys and then what they were
doing. I and I like watchingKobe White too, but it's not enough.
It's not enough. Yeah, watchingwatching Damar and Cruiser kind of just
gets to be depressed, honestly,But watching I mean I do enjoy.
(28:18):
Its just a pathetic it's a patheticteam. It's a pathetic organization. I
don't think the coach, I don'tthink anything is good. And they'll have
moments where it's fun and they're competitive, but no one cares about the regular
season, so none of it matters. None of it matters, So it's
just Yes, and even in aregular season where no one really cares.
(28:40):
The Bulls aren't good enough to bein the top six of the East to
be to avoid being a player becausethey don't care. They care, No,
they don't care. The players carethe players, and the players aren't
that good. I don't think theycare. Well, they're not competitive.
They don't compete. Maybe I watchthem, they're not competing. They compete
(29:03):
sometimes they're not. They're not.I mean, if if they care,
then they are. They really didn'tcare for the first month and a half.
If they do care, they're veryconfused. They don't know what's going
on. They're confused. Yeah,And that's why I think like this Demarch
trade could still happen, because Idon't think there's any way Tomor stays in
Chicago, Like why would you lessChicago pays them a crazy amount of money,
(29:25):
which I don't even think Chicago wouldbecause Chicago is kind of cheap,
and it's not like the Boots tradewhere you traded so much to get rid
of to add Tomorrow. It wasn'tit wasn't as much. So I think
they could, like, you know, let them go and if you're tomorrow,
it's just that. I just don'tthink. Why would you stay outside
of money? But I just don'tknow that there's the market. Is there
(29:48):
the the market? Yeah? Iwas thinking in Philly as a possibility,
but without Embeid, it's like,uh, just it's just unclear, not
this season that they would give upassets. So and the Lakers are not
interested. So but both those teamswill have money in free agency, so
they could sign him. Yeah,they could. There could be something in
the free agency. If I hadto guess, nothing happens, and I'm
(30:14):
gonna be frustrated about it, andI don't know. You'll watch, but
you'll watch a couple of games forjust the recaps. You want to watch
the full game? No, no, I'll watch the game. I just
I either am in or out.And I think I think there's a reasonable
chance that I do cancel leak passjust to save the money. But let's
be honest, I'm probably not gonnado it. I just wish I would.
(30:34):
I wish I would. You know, they have pretty informative ten minute
recaps of every game, so Imean, you know, I guess,
really you could save some money fora couple months and then get back into
the leage pass. I think mywhole point is, who cares about the
outcome? What's the point in recappingit? Yeah, what's the point in
recapping it if you don't if there'sif the outcome is pointless. It's really
(30:56):
just Kobe White. That's the mainexciting thing to watch. But is it
that exciting? Well, it's moreexciting. I mean, like things were
so bleak in December November. Remember, No, it is exciting that he's
good. I'm just saying, yeah, I'm just saying that is it What
difference does it make in their longterm future? I mean, it just
extends their ability to like kick thecan down the road. Basically. It
(31:19):
just it just keeps us stuck inthe situation a little longer because it's hard
to imagine that this organization will buildanything of meaning or value around Kobe White
that makes any sense, you know, to actually like win like multiple playoff
rounds versus just like, oh yeah, that's not good being the nine seed.
Yeah, exactly. So that's thething about because Kobe what you know,
he signed up this crazy good contract. Now he's like a fringe All
(31:40):
star kind of player. He didn'tmake it this year, by the way,
but he's fringe All Star and ifthe team record is better, he
would have been the Bulls representative.But you could, you could, if
you were a smart organization, youcould find a way to make this value
contract really work for you. Butthe Bulls are not that, and so
they're just gonna They're probably just gonnatry to resign these old guys. They're
gonna try to resigned tomorrow and nottrade Cruise and all this dumb stuff.
(32:01):
And then they're not gonna trade Zach. So they're gonna be sad with the
same team, and they're going toage and get worse. And this is
I kind of wish we could justlead a boycott and just get everyone to
stop going to the games and stopwatching them. We had like twenty thousand
downloads by the way, last month, so I mean, heck, that's
you know, if you know halfof you guys want to get together,
(32:22):
we can get some like banners aregoing or something. I don't think that
there was a fireguar packs banner.This time only gonna be to sell the
team banner. Though this time it'sa it's a it's a pocketbook thing like
it's it only matters if it impactstheir actual checking you know, their actual
pocketbooks, like until they lose whichhappened. Yeah, well when they happened
(32:45):
in the marketing years, when theywere that bad that they stopped showing up.
That's why they changed. That's theonly way. I just don't see
any path where we get a superstar. I just I'm not seeing it.
So unless that happens, unless weget a superstar, it's never gonna change.
(33:08):
I mean, it probably comes downto guard packs. I'm sorry,
wishful, I wishful thing. Yeah, I miss gar packs. It probably
comes down to the Rhine Store ofselling the team or just the front office
stumbling into a stud on a rookiescale contract. Actually, I'm gonna go
step further. It'll continue this wayand then eventually they'll get they'll get fired,
(33:30):
and then a new front office willcome in and maybe that'll be a
good front office. That's the onlyhope. I mean, that is true.
Like this, they're gone so andthey've been they've been so bad that
you know there's a decent chance,especially they keep missing the actual playoffs and
they keep making the play in andthat that does hurt their bottom line because
the Bulls want to be that eightseed. They don't want to be a
(33:50):
nine seed, you know what Imean the chance to make they need like
some playoff games. Uh, andthey're not gonna get it. And so
no, they're not quite good enough. As a result, I think they
could eventually get fired if they don'tmake the actual playoffs in the next two
years. I do think they'll getfired after that. Yeah, but it's
just hard to it's just going tobeg for two years. Yeah right,
yeah, So, I mean anormal organization would have fired them already,
(34:15):
you know what I mean, Likethe Bucks fired their title winning coach after
two seasons after he won them atitle. You know, Well, coaches
always go first. That's why BillyDonovan is definitely getting fired first, because
the front office uses that as anexcuse to keep their jobs. That's true.
That's true, Like like the Lakersdid that with Frank Vogels, well
(34:36):
when it was their front office thatdid it. Yeah anyway, anyway,
Yeah, so that's that. Thatis our podcast. It is a depressing
time to be a Bulls fan,as it is kind of every time we
talk. But I think in theofficers we're gonna do some fun stuff like
rewatching Classic Bowls, playoff series andstuff like that, absolutely accruing like a
whole drop box folder of old games. So I think that'd be more fun
(35:00):
about the past and what was becausethere was a time during that, you
know, early Guarpacks era, moreand more more. John Paxson too also,
We're like that was like, youknow, those are some sort of
fun teams, you know, andit's weird to miss, you know,
these kind of also rand teams,but here we are. So anyway,
all right, well, thank youso much, Max, Go Bulls.
(35:22):
We'll talk to you guys after thedeadline.
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